Confessions of a Recruiter
The show is hosted by Blake Thompson and Declan Kluver who respectively own Vendito Consulting and Blended Employment. Both have been in Sales & Marketing Recruitment for over 5 years. The podcast is about opening the door to the recruitment world and creating a community of recruiters who can share funny stories, educate and have honest conversations about the industry and their experience. All episodes are powered by xrecruiter.
Confessions of a Recruiter
Douglas Robertson - DR Analytics Recruitment | Confessions of a Recruiter #115
When Douglas Robertson founded DR Analytics Recruitment, he didn't just create another recruitment agency—he tackled the fundamental isolation problem in the data analytics industry. Having worked as a data analyst himself, Douglas recognized that professionals were trapped in organizational silos, missing crucial knowledge-sharing opportunities in a field that moves faster than most can keep up with.
Beginning with just 22 people gathered in a Perth bar, Douglas' community-building approach has transformed into something remarkable. His quarterly "inner join" events now draw substantial crowds, connecting data specialists, leaders, and businesses across the ecosystem. As Douglas explains with refreshing candor, "The data world is often very siloed... What about someone else who's got the same problem, but they're using different software?" This simple insight drives everything his agency does.
The podcast reveals surprising nuggets about the Perth data landscape—like how 95% of the market uses Power BI rather than Tableau—and practical advice for professionals navigating career development in this rapidly evolving space. We laugh about Douglas' serendipitous entry into data analytics (thanks to a conversation with his barista) and explore the vulnerability even confident networkers feel when entering a room full of strangers.
What sets Douglas' approach apart is his balanced philosophy toward business growth. Maintaining strict boundaries between recruitment activities and community building, he shares specific metrics that keep his business on track while nurturing the wider data community. His distinction between "inner purpose" (finding contentment regardless of circumstances) and "outer purpose" (building his agency) offers wisdom for any entrepreneur.
With a rebrand on the horizon and plans to "uplift data literacy across Australia," Douglas' story demonstrates how authentic community-building creates both business success and meaningful industry impact. Whether you're a data professional, a recruiter, or building your own business, this conversation provides valuable insights into connecting people around shared challenges.
Subscribe to Confessions of a Recruiter for more authentic conversations with industry leaders who are transforming their fields through innovative approaches to talent and community.
· Our Website is: xrecruiter.io
My name's Douglas from DR Analytics Recruitment. Listen to this pod, hear about a story from being a data analyst to becoming a data analyst recruiter and the community. That's the foundation of our agency. Check out the pod.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to another episode of Confessions of a Recruiter. I'm joined by Doug Robinson, DR Analytics Recruitment Mate, we're in the Wild West. Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:Mate, welcome. Welcome to the West Six-hour flight. It's a long one, but glad you can be here, mate.
Speaker 2:steak and eggs got me through today, so I'm ready to rock and roll. Now, mate, there's a few things we're already going to be chatting about like community the hustle of recruitment, how you've been able to build your agency over the last couple of years. So do you just want to chat back at, like, the last 12 months of what it's like being in your business, at DR Analytics?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no awesome. Last 12 months has been a bit of a transformation. We've hired first full-time, so that's been shifting my role from getting jobs on and then filling those jobs to more so community, the business development and also leading Rach, who's in the team right now.
Speaker 2:Mate awesome. And what changed for you to say, hey, I want to bring on, because one thing you did that not many recruiters have done, you've actually done the job. You were a data analyst yourself into data analytics before getting into running your own recruitment agency. So where did this community thing come from? Like was it? What was the moment? Because there's a lot of buzz around community, obviously with XRecruiter, that's the heartbeat of our company and what our mission and the impact. Like, what was it for you that dawned on you and said, hey, I need to be doing recruitment as opposed to just one-to-one phone calls all the time.
Speaker 1:For the community aspect. It honestly started when I was a data analyst and I thought what can I do? That leans towards starting an agency early and it's getting people together. Now the data world is often very siloed, so people are in organizations but they don't speak to anyone else. So I had the first event 2022 before I even started the agency. So you were just in your role and then you just started. The first event we had was hey, dming people on LinkedIn. I had got a space in a bar, no money or anything. People buy their own drinks, buy their own food if they want.
Speaker 1:Gramercy Bar and Kitchen, nice. 22 people showed up and everyone was like this is great, this is really cool. To have everyone come together, that's awesome, but it was didn't even need to have the recruitment agency there, it was just bringing people together. Yeah, now, I didn't have this nice vision that we're going to have a hundred people events at one stage. It was sort of let's figure this out and we can grow from there.
Speaker 2:And what was your thought process? Were you nervous about people showing up? Like what was your DM? What was your DM message in the moment? Like what were you saying to these people?
Speaker 1:It was just highlighting the problem of data analytics is siloed Like let's bring people together so you can learn, collaborate and maybe improve your career as well, in terms of someone here is facing the same problem as another person at another company.
Speaker 2:And what were the biggest problems that data analysts or data analytics people face that you tapped into, that you found Loneliness is one you've mentioned.
Speaker 1:Not loneliness. Somewhat, I think it's because the industry moves so fast. You're in this sort of silo of all right. All I know is this what about someone else who's got the same problem, but they're using a different software? Or maybe I need to be learning this technology as well? How have they done it as well? So it's combating that technology is moving quicker than you by meeting more people and getting that sort of group effect.
Speaker 2:So more like a hundred minds is more powerful than one mentality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's almost like the, especially in data and analytics. One of the reasons why I got out of it is because the industry is like a treadmill You've got to be upskilling all the time. Now, what you upskill on is very important, so learning from other people is the best factor there.
Speaker 2:So what would you suggest to a data analyst or someone in data analytics about upskilling and making sure that they're running faster than the guy on the treadmill next to them?
Speaker 1:Go on LinkedIn talk to different people Talk to Doug. Robinson DM me. I know what's happening, but I think it's talking to other people and understanding what technology is popular, because 10 years ago Oracle was all the rage and now in Perth, azure is all the rage. So, understanding that dynamic and it's not about being the best Oracle developer, let's say, but being able to learn the new thing that's coming in town, for example, and how do you learn it.
Speaker 2:Like is it you're going to speak to someone, but what questions are you going to ask them? Like, how would you approach someone so they don't just go oh look, so they get buy-in? Because it's all well and good to ask people questions, but like, what would you say to them if they're a data analytics person and they're like reaching out to someone for the first time? Traditionally they're introverted. They may be a whiz, obviously they're wizards with computers, but like, the people element doesn't always come strong in that type of environment. So, like, would you suggest just a DM message to be like hey, something humble that you're wanting to learn and open up a conversation?
Speaker 2:Or would you want to you know, for them to come with certain resources. Is there chat, gpt or like? What would you be doing to create the most leverage you reckon?
Speaker 1:If I'm a data analyst wanting to upskill and learn what's out there when you're approaching people. When you're approaching people, I think you can start with either a conversation, whether it's at, say, an event that you go to industry and a join and understanding what someone else's challenges are in a company, because they may be completely different to what they're facing, what you're facing at, you're facing your own. So, and how they're combating.
Speaker 1:that might be with python, it might be with azure, like learning what they're solving the same problem with, and then you can go to often these service providers like databricks, snowflake you might have heard of, and you can upskill on their websites for free oh, wow, yeah, so a lot of free resources.
Speaker 2:I Is it like when I got into like, started getting into gym fitness. I'd always look on social media and be like why is every dude on my thing jacked as, and every girl is in like the best shape? I'd be like I can't even work this shit out, like it's just a big blue ocean and I could never get the right information until I just paid for a coach, like my coach Brody.
Speaker 2:He just like goes hey, mate, this is the macro breakdown, these are the foods that you need to eat. And then, within you know four weeks, I'd lost like four kilos and I was like, why have I struggled with maintaining energy, being fit, staying in shape for like so many years, when I just went to a coach paid, you know, paid the money, got the answer. So like is there any you know, once they've reached out to people for free information or do that? Is there anyone within the sphere that you would recommend like a valuable course that may not cost tens of thousands of dollars but could be the first step to just getting that answer straight away?
Speaker 1:Yeah You're touching on. One of the biggest challenges in the industry is that you can get information and learn anywhere. You can get people that are in very senior roles, that are self-taught from YouTube, for example. So that's there. Youtube is a resource that anyone can use to learn, but what is going to be a specific thing for you as well and relevant to where you are Exactly? You touched on the coaching, and that's where I see it's important to see what other people are doing, so that you're upskilling in areas that are directly relevant. And why do you know it's relevant? Someone has that job in maybe a more senior role. So I'd say, reaching out to someone that's where you want to be and understanding what they've learned to get there as well.
Speaker 2:And how far ahead would you suggest? One to two years, 10 years, 20 years? It?
Speaker 1:depends how aspirational you are, but I think you don't want to reach too. Then it's the gap's too big in terms of providing relevant information. That person's too far ahead. I think one to two years is perfect, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, just because what I've worked out, man, like success isn't figured out anymore, it's purchased. And you look at it from a small scale, you go from okay, I want to get you know, I want to be able to get better at BD. All right, I, I want to be able to get better at BD. I'm going to go and learn the skill so I can then bring in more money, or I can sit there and figure it out. I can be like all right, I'm going to have to find a coach, I'm just going to have to figure this shit out. I'm just going to keep bashing the phones until I figure it out. That process can take three to five years. You can pay for a cheap course it could even be a free course and you're going to get the best information from someone at the top of the advice ladder, so then they can then just pass their knowledge on to you in a palatable way. And then you look at the next stage, like and then you look at the nth degree. So that's just the first way to upskill. You just pay for a course and get what you want.
Speaker 2:And then you look at like companies on mass scales. They're not looking at their competitors to be like, hey, how can we compete against them? Let's just buy them, because they're not spending their time, money, resources with their leadership team trying to figure out what their competitors are doing. They're just going hey, how can we buy them? And then put them into our company? And we keep going. So I think, like what you said, one of the biggest challenges is like channeling that big blue ocean on where to actually get the best advice. Like, maybe that could be a leverage point for you to update your like, level up your profile and be like hey, these are the top one or two people data analytics people in the country to go to, and then they could structure something. You could have a referral network together.
Speaker 2:I'll put on a few webinars as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, webinars Across Australia, that's where it starts. Yeah, yeah, I think understanding where to upskill is the hardest part, but then understanding which coach is going to accelerate you the fastest as well, exactly, yeah, who do you reckon would?
Speaker 1:For data analytics. It's difficult because it's not really out there as much, and it's a challenging space for, like you mentioned, courses. There's a popular trend of people starting their own boot camps. There's some that are extremely excellent and there's some that may not be relevant to that person as well. So, in terms of choosing your coach or course, you have to be Like a niche. Yeah, you have to decide what's actually going to be valuable for you because you could learn a technology that's like, for example, Google Cloud 1% of the Perth market. There's no one here that uses Google Cloud. I think it's two companies that I'm aware of.
Speaker 2:Is that an advantage? Google aren't very good, eh, maybe I should chat to them and we can fill some roles.
Speaker 1:Same with business intelligence. You might have heard of Power BI and Tableau. East Coast is what's better? Depends on the use case. Objectively that's probably a contentious issue there, but in Perth it's 95% Power BI because their Tableau rep left five years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tableau is Salesforce. Salesforce is expensive, so like so is Tableau, but it's got great AI features.
Speaker 1:Tableau is good for custom data products. Yep Power BI is better for enterprise. So enterprise rollout easier to use for the standard user. They've got different use cases. But if you're in Perth, don't do a tablet course Like if you're looking at a boot camp. You should be doing Power BI at least. So there's a few different niche areas based upon your area and region and what technology is currently flavour of the month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair. And then what about you know, rolling over to you, I think, mate, just in those few comments, you provide a lot of value for data analysts to take and run with. What about you at the moment? Like what's business like it's, you know, two and a half years in it's way, different to your first ever job in recruitment, like doing blue collar, mate, how do you I don't even ask that how do you go from doing a blue collar recruitment gig to then getting into data analytics for almost four years and then started in data analytics recruitment agency?
Speaker 1:Yeah, mate, it's a bit of a journey there in terms of different frame shifts over time. But I started in blue-collar recruitment, which was trades and labour FIFO workers on contract mostly. And I say that's the Rocky Balboa moment of you know, here's a phone, here's a database of 100,000 people. Start calling 100 calls a day or so. Whatever you need to do, get some people out. Now this was 2020, a bit of a recruitment boom here and the desk I was put on was a cold desk, so no clients. So, as a junior, you know, go find your clients and then go find the people I was going. What's going on here? How am I supposed to do this? So that was an initial challenge, sort of a three six-month hump. But over time, bringing on clients and then also finding the candidates on a cold desk, it kind of feels like you're running your own business, almost. So that's sort of where I guess the seed started. But over time it didn't feel like I was providing as much value in that transactional blue-collar space.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Seven-minute call. Share a CV. They're up on site the following week, next one. So I was like I want to get some more hard skills. So I did a data analytics boot camp with UWA. So I was learning that part-time while also doing recruitment, true. And then my barista helped me get a job by connecting me with the head of data at an ASX listed company Wow.
Speaker 2:And that was your entry to the market.
Speaker 1:Entry was, honestly, it was a coffee. I was getting a coffee mentioned that I was interested in it. She then connected me to the GM, who was the head of data, who was a regular at that cafe. He caught up with me Two months later. Here's your junior data analyst role. Welcome to the team.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, so it was. Uh, there's recruitment agencies on every corner. Hey, just baristas undercover and that's.
Speaker 1:I'll tell that story to people and say but share what you want to do with other people, because you never know where that help might come from as well have you always had that belief or that confidence to do that?
Speaker 2:because a lot of people would go oh look, you know, I don't. I don't want to chat about it, they're not going to, they won't be interested in me, I've got you know. No, no, no, like I'm just going to keep plugging away, being the dog on the rusty nail, not fully not getting fulfilled. But I'm just going to work in my zone of excellence. I'm pretty good at recruitment. I'm placing roles. Like how do you actually make that move to be like, hey, I'm going to put myself out there, because even just you mentioning that to a barista, 99% of people wouldn't Every day. They just go through life saying you know, next month I'll do it, next year I'll do it, once this happens, I'll do it. That time never comes. Like how would you? How did you? Was it just a passing comment? You said, fuck it, I'm just going to tell her. Or like they get it out of you, it's honestly just a conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, what's going on? What are you doing? Oh, I'm studying this data course as well, doing recruitment, and then that led to oh, I know the head of data, he's a regular here every day, like I can mention that as well. He happened to be hiring for a junior. I think there's a, I think it. I'm just doing this thing with my life, I'm studying, so sharing a little bit about what you're doing and then perhaps that could lead to something, I think, for the I guess, quote networking part of that. It's not about the ask Like I'm not going to my barista and saying, no way, have you got a data job. That's hiding behind there somewhere. But hiding behind there somewhere, but sharing the journey. People may be like you and they may feel like they can help as well.
Speaker 2:And I've been terrified of going to networking events. Like I laugh. It was the week I opened Blended and I rock up to a 200-person room and I just got invited to this networking event. It was at the Hammo, like a local pub near my house. I walked down, I'm shit nervous, got no money, just started a business, not that confident, because as soon as you start a business you lose all your confidence and you're like got to rebuild now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, imposter, syndrome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time. And I'm in a suit, like I looked apart, I'm like, and then I didn't even know how to approach someone. I was that nervous to go up to them Like have you ever felt stuff like that?
Speaker 1:Oh, I still get that Like regularly I'll go to events and I feel out of place, like I don't belong here. What am I going to talk about with people? Yeah, just a little bit nervous. There's even been times where you're like, should I just pull the pin and clock off and go home? It's a 5.30 networking event. Oh, I'm not feeling 100%, which is you know that's a lie. You can always go to these things. Why do you choose to show up For me?
Speaker 1:I make a massive effort in Perth to go to all the local technology events and, to be honest, from my perspective, it's other people for me. Other people at other agencies aren't going to do that, and part of the business for me is being part of that community and attending those. I think that's also for, say, the data professional who's looking to upskill and build. So you're in a competitive market. If you're going to events other people might not be. All you have to do is show up to that and you'll win Like you're on the board. If you don't go, you're not even on the board. You can't get to play.
Speaker 2:And you're an I personality, right, so you're an influencer, you love people. That's what seems to fuel you when you're in your zone of genius, but, like a C personality, that's the last thing they feel like doing. Now, what advice would you give to them to be like hey, this is what I'll be doing if I was highly introverted, nervous about going Like, do you just show up and just don't put any pressure on yourself to not talk to anyone and just come back, just be in the room. Like, just be in the room or what would you say Honestly?
Speaker 1:I'd say be in the room, talk to one person, that's the goal. That's the goal. Start with the exposure therapy. So if you can go listen to the talk, maybe connect with the speaker after and go home, that's a win.
Speaker 2:The speaker- that's the golden nugget, bro. Be the speaker. No, no, no, be the speaker. That's 10 steps ahead. But if we're talking about the golden nugget, when you go to an event, it's all well and good to go and meet people, it's great. But what I did, that changed the game for my networking. When I was too shy to go and talk to the room, I'd find out who the speaker was and send them a handwritten letter the next day. Yeah, wow, yeah. I love that. I love the handwritten aspect and say I love this about your speech. Ps. I'm just a young small business owner wanting to learn. I'd love to get a coffee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, the handwritten aspect's awesome, I love there's 150 people in the room.
Speaker 2:I didn't have to go around the entire room. I just had to send one letter the next day. Get a photo of me in the room Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're there. You've shown up Like that's enough buying for him to say yeah, absolutely. Or them to say, hey, absolutely, I'll get a coffee with you. You were at the event.
Speaker 2:You came and listened to me speak for 30 minutes. Of course, got imposter syndrome too. They're about to walk out on that panel. They're going fuck. I hope people show up. I hope people are there. Like what happens if they don't like my opening pitch and I lose the audience. Like what I've learned through my business journey is that the big dogs are just as scared as the ones coming up.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and I feel that definitely, whether it's speaking or you know, I've got a networking event tonight for CICD on AWS. I'm nervous someone's going to be like oh, you don't really know much about this, do you Like a bit of that imposter? Where is it? What is it? Aws has a meetup for CICD. What's that? Continuous integration, continuous development. So that's software for. Like software speak for. Let's continue to improve our processes while not disrupting the existing process over time. So how can we update things without shit hitting the fan?
Speaker 2:essentially, Mate, that's a technology problem and a people problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I don't know much about it, and some roles we need someone that has experience in CICD Are you going to speak at it? No, no, no, Just be there.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to be there and say, like what's going on here, serge? What are you doing tonight? Come get some photos of Doug at the event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, mate, I'm just a guest, I'm just wandering around.
Speaker 2:Mate build authority. Walk around with a videographer next year.
Speaker 1:Jump it on the event. Yeah, we'll go. I've got my video crew here.
Speaker 2:Mate Game changer for us. Yeah so what were you going to say?
Speaker 1:I was going to say on those events. There's, I guess, from the community aspect, there's that public side, but we do a bit in the private space as well. So we've got an event. Can you define that for me? What does that mean? So that's invite only for data and analytics leaders across Perth. So there's the public. You know, 100 person, that's for anyone, people that are job seeking, maybe a few different leaders as well that might speak. Then there's that's great for building data literacy. Then there's all right, let's bring all the leaders together and have a breakfast for an hour and a half and a few talks and a few coffees to help that collaboration across the person in finance that's having the same problem as the person at Commonwealth Bank, for example, in the data space.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Have you met? Have you heard of Stephen Fullop, sydney recruiter? No, I haven't Excel to him. I'll connect you both, mate. He's a high performer. He's got a CIO network in Sydney. Similar thing you guys would get along like a house on fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'd be awesome. I'd love to hear he's probably got a few tips on building that network as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah for sure, like you can see on his website, like all the showcases and stuff of what they say about him, it's pretty moving, yeah, awesome. And then so can you explain it to us, your community group? Like, what's it about, what's the mission behind it, what's the reason for the impact.
Speaker 1:It started as that 20 people in a bar. It wasn't this big sort of let's see what we can build with this, but over time it's developed in a bit more meaning and I feel like it happens actually a lot with things. If you fuck around and find out, eventually the meaning can come out to it or you see some things. But from the business side, what we want to do is build people. So start with the individual, bring those people together, build community and then build businesses. So essentially, if we can take the top 1% from that community into businesses, then hey, that's perfect for the world. That sounds like a lot of work, mate, yes, but I get a lot out of it. What do you get out of it In terms of it's awesome to meet with one person for a coffee or you have an interview with someone. You interview someone else and then they both come to the event and I point one and go you have to meet this person. And then after the event, they go oh, I met David. He's a legend, we're going to catch up and talk about some projects and I'm like, if that happens, I'm super happy, that's awesome. So I get a lot out of that personally, but as the sort of macro idea for the community it's, can we uplift data literacy across Perth. So if someone can come to the event that's siloed in a job at Rio Tinto doing data visualization, if they can learn something and apply it the next day, then that's a win. So across the board, can we uplift data literacy as a whole and I think that as an impact, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Have you read 10x is easier than 2x? No, I haven't. I've heard the concept before and I like the. I think I've heard the analogy of if you're going to go a kilometre, you might walk it, but if you're going 10, you might drive as well. Is that sort of the whole book in a nutshell? Yeah?
Speaker 2:mate. Yeah, like, just think bigger one-to-one, like. You've already figured out the one-to-many right. So if you're going, hey, how can I place this one data analytics into one role? That's what 99% of recruiters do You're thinking, hey, how can I get 100 of them in a room and connect all of them together and I become the go-to thought leader. And then you think one bigger, like have you monetized your community yet?
Speaker 1:Yes, because the agency's there Exactly so.
Speaker 2:Like, how do you do that on steroids? How do you get five people from that one conversation to go and meet another company the next day based on what they said? Like there's five send-outs, five potential placements? Like I think when you start monetising community in the wrong way, like getting sponsors and stuff into your community, then they can start dictating terms and it loses the heartbeat of what it's all about, because then they go all right. Well, we want assets, we want contact numbers of everyone in the community so we can market to them, and then dilutes it.
Speaker 1:What do you reckon? Yeah, it gets transactional. I've seen that happen with run clubs. I think I forgot which brand did it, but they started a run club and then it was hey, like the first 50 people that rock up, get these new shorts.
Speaker 1:That we've just released and you know you have to take a photo with it as well. But it wasn't really the purpose. But if they had gone and said, oh, we've got a run club X sports brand shirt, everyone would be like shit, yeah, that's awesome, I'll buy that. Yeah, rather than forcing it on people. But from the people ask me a lot what's the ROI, what do you get from these events and why do you do them as well?
Speaker 1:I think probably 80% of the speakers which are potential clients for the recruitment business end up being clients down the line and I think that's from the recruitment side. They're watching the tangible, basically our tangible database right in front of them. It's like, holy, we've got a hundred people here interested in data. Oh, there's one guy that knows everyone here. If I'm going to look for a role like this is right in front of me. It's not oh, I've got a database of 5,000. It's, I can see these people right in front of me. He's connected to. Of course I'm going to use him if we need a contractor or we've got a new hire, that's coming on board. So that's been really cool. From the monetization is potential clients come out of it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's special. You keep it as that. And how much do these events cost for you to set up? At the moment, $1,500, about that, maybe a little bit less. One placement 10, 20x ROI.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a story on the recruitment side from the leadership invite-only boardroom event or breakfast. Yeah, we did that with the first one, with 20 people or so, and I was like I'm not sure where this sits A little bit nervous about you. Know, let's do a 5 pm Talking to all the big dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just, you know everyone's going to come in a boardroom. I've got to sort of emcee this. You know they're all potential clients, even they're quite senior in the industry, and that cost about $1,500. As they're all leaving out, one guy hung back and said hey, mate, we've just had our data analytics leave and handed his resignation yesterday. I'll give you a call tomorrow and that was a 30 grand placement, so that 1,500 had a 20x return. I was like, oh, that's the value here. That actually okay, I see this makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:In your first event. Yeah, Mate awesome.
Speaker 1:Let's keep doing this. Yeah yeah, definitely, and that's a very commercial lens to it and you've got to have that, but in reality, the impact's also there. I speak and hear the same problem from one data manager to another. I can't solve it. Yeah, why don't you solve it with someone else? That's also facing the challenge For sure.
Speaker 2:So I think that impact has to be central. But as a spinoff, if you are hiring, we're the best position to help as well. Yeah, and when we caught up for Salt, I don't know if you remember 12 months ago, 18 months ago you had a coffee. Yeah, have you digitalized the community yet?
Speaker 1:Not as much. It's meetup based, so digitalizers in meetup we can send out comms through there. The next phase of that would be having, say, an app or a platform that people can connect on. School's a good one. I've done a little school community, I think it's. I don't want to do too much in different areas where there's not. I guess the return on that what about?
Speaker 1:LinkedIn Group. Linkedin Group I've thought about it's just going to be. Meetup in Perth is we're looking at the Perth market. Specialised Meetup in Perth is like we were looking at the Perth market. Specialised Meetup is the go-to spot for these events. So that's getting people there. I think eventually there will be some value in either a platform or possibly a better place to connect people. Last event we worked with a mentorship group who's that? So they're called Mentor at Ford. What made you pick them? They're a start-up in Perth. The founder was actually head of data at all. He was a practice leader at Insight if you've heard of Insight no Big Fortune 500 company in the data space. He started a platform where it links mentor to mentee and basically facilitates that interaction. So we were able to bring him in and then release a mentorship group to essentially tailor just for people in that inner joint community.
Speaker 2:Mate, he sounds like your go-to guy for the courses and advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's very good. I like that a lot because it's okay. We do quarterly events for inner join. Yeah, what are people doing after that? Let's, let's connect people that can mentor and mentee each other and they can learn, and where that connection happen, industry and a join. How does it fit with the goal? Uplift data literacy across Perth.
Speaker 2:Mate, it sounds like that's the mission.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And then I guess, recruitment-wise, long-term, if we uplift data literacy, do you think there'll be more roles that are on in Perth as well? Yeah, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Put Perth on the map.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think Perth we'll get in over to Melbourne a little bit. Now I'm a bit in Brizzy, nice, but starting here definitely.
Speaker 2:Awesome. And how has your role changed now? Like, you've gotten through the I don't know, I don't know if there's ever a finish line in business We'll laugh and like to win the race. All you got to do is stay around the longest. But, like you know, we have a three-month slump where partners come on dramatically. They're like, start billing a fair bit of money, and then they're like month four, they're like, oh shit, I am that good, I'm crushing it. They do a zero month or they have their worst month ever and they let their foot off the gas. Obviously worn against that now, but in the first 12 months it used to happen all the time because, like, I am just the king, this is awesome, this is easy. And then they stop doing the basics.
Speaker 2:So, like, how do you balance the excitement? Because I can feel the passion in you when you talk about these events, these people. You're meeting the doors, you're opening the deals, you're doing. But like, how do you stay focused on day to day? Because, like people will, especially I personalities they'll be like, all right, I'm researching how do I start a community tomorrow, and they'll completely derail their recruitment career and I like that. You keep bringing it back to recruitment.
Speaker 2:But like, what do you do to stay balanced as a director and making sure that your team are not just caught in the? Because I've failed at this. I've failed multiple times at getting caught in the big ideas and no implementation. So like, how do you get in day-to-day, making sure you're doing your send-outs, making sure you're doing your interviews, and just keeping the wheels turning? Because, like, if you ever stop doing that or you have a shit month, like it's going to affect how you show up at these meetings, how it's going to affect how you show up at these meetings, how you show up in the community, you're not going to have the money to invest in better. So, like, how do you do day-to-day and what's changed from Ed two years not Ed Doug two years ago, compared to now?
Speaker 1:I think the structure is very important and I've heard Matt Crossan talk on this a lot. In terms of make sure you have your clear day structure. I'd say my nine to five is recruitment. Everything outside of that is the events in the community as well. So I'm not trying to be a consultancy, I'm not trying to be a community. We are a recruitment agency and there's a lot of dialogue on the internet.
Speaker 1:Alex and Moses is great for this. In terms of the woman in the red dress, the person that stays consistent across one thing is going to get the biggest return, rather than someone that has three businesses. He framed it really well. He spoke about it as it's an exercise of arrogance because you think you can do three things better than if you just did one thing. Then someone else is trying to compete with you, so you're trying to do three. When someone else is doing one, you think you can do better with you, so you're trying to do three when someone else is doing one and you think you can do better. So I think, remaining focused on the recruitment agency in terms of my role, it's those key KPIs. How many BD calls are you doing?
Speaker 2:What are your metrics? That matter?
Speaker 1:My metrics that matter are meetings booked. So right now it's more client facing Rachel's doing more of the delivery and recruitment. Right now, metrics are how many BD outbounds are you doing? How many meetings booked do you have? How many meetings do you have and how many jobs on Awesome Do you care?
Speaker 2:to share those numbers.
Speaker 1:What I try to hit Yep For meetings booked, I'll try to do five to ten every week. So booked in the future Jobs on one to two a week. If I can hit that, that's incredible. Sometimes that's up, sometimes that's lower. You know how it is. Bd outbounds aim is to hit. Look honestly, it's around 50 good outbounds, so that's 10 per day. Get those done straight away and if I can hit those, excellent. Sometimes shit hits the fan and I have to divert, but ideally always hit that as well. Now I wouldn't say those are ridiculously high, but it's. Can you do that for two, three years? Not, can you do them? Can you do a thousand in a week? Let's say Exactly.
Speaker 2:And did you know that your activity predicts your P&L? So the lumpy cat. When people say it's the rollercoaster of recruitments because they don't do BD for three weeks, they source candidates for three weeks. They don't get paid for another four to six weeks, maybe 12 weeks, depending if they do start date, notice period, four-week payment terms and they're like, oh shit, why do I have a lumpy cash flow? This is the rollercoaster of recruitment. This is how it should be. But if you do what you said day after day, you just have to do it every day. Then you get it all rolling in.
Speaker 1:I 100% agree with that. What comes to mind is, I always think sometimes you have, say, less jobs on than you hope and you're quite nervous about a placement, for example, eg you get into that 10th point offer acceptance, start date.
Speaker 2:And you've had three fall over and you've got to pay the bills next week. You're like, fuck, here we go, there's payroll coming.
Speaker 1:You've got to pay the bills next week. You're like, fuck, here we go, there's payroll coming. Yeah, you've got a tax bill. Everything's happening, and I always find if I'm getting nervous about a single placement or a single job or a single client that's on my pipeline's not big enough. I have to accept that if I'm getting super hyper-focused, the way to stop that is have five more of those in the process.
Speaker 2:How do you do that? Though it's so easy, doug, you can just be like, yeah, look, I should have just had five more. But you're like, oh, this deal's got to come in, it's got to come in. Like how do you create that abundance mindset when you're actually forced into scarcity? Because you're like there's been times for me multiple times and I'm like holy fuck, Like I don't know what.
Speaker 1:I'm doing this has to land this, this has to land, this has to land If this doesn't fucking land.
Speaker 2:I onboarded a staff member in 2020, just coming out of COVID in April, and I had nine deals Like I'm not saying they're deals, but they were final interviews offers nine offers rejected in one month. And I just stayed composed and calm and I didn't tell the consultant until like four months later, when he was having a shit month, the four-month slump. He was having a shit month at Blended and I said, bro, do you know, realize, when you signed up the first month of onboarding, when I'm onboarding you, recruiting, getting out of COVID, maybe it was 2021. And I said, mate, I had nine deals fall over.
Speaker 2:He's like what I was like. He's like, mate, you seem like the happiest bloke in the world. I was like he's like, mate, you seem like the happiest bloke in the world. I said, yeah, mate, because the ROI of fucking you up and tripping you out is way bigger than me losing those deals. So do you have a frame in your mind where you're like, hey, I need to say this to myself, or keep grounded, or identify that before, because, mate, once you're on a Friday afternoon and you've got payroll Monday and you're going, hey, I need to pay these bills. You're too far gone and you're desperate for that Friday deal and then they didn't say yes straight away. Then you have it hanging over the weekend.
Speaker 1:It's like you knew my last month. There's one of those specifically which was large. So the question is, how do you maintain the consistency?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you get to that before. We don't want recruiters to get into that position, right? So what can they do to mitigate that? Is there some early signs Like it may be a quota of jobs on, it may be X amount of client meetings? Like what is it that they go? Hey, look, once I've got to 10 jobs on mine's 10. If I don't have 10 jobs on, I'm wicking out. If I don three retainers, I'm nervous. So what do you reckon is a sensible outlook on that? Be like, hey, as long as you've got these bases covered you won't ever have freaky moments.
Speaker 1:I think for me it's recognising the fear or anxiety or scarcity mindset that you said. When you are hyper-focused on one deal or you're hyper-focused on this has to go through, everything has to go through, and recognising that putting your focus there isn't going to change anything, isn't going to do anything. If you feel like that, go fix it by getting more jobs on. So that's get on the phone straight away, that's organise an event, or lots of more people, do the things that got you to that job in the first place, but then 5x, 10x that as well.
Speaker 2:Just do the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like taking the. Oh, I'm super stressed about this and it's like just do the work. I remember this going back to childhood, but it always comes up. I was in year seven and I was stressing about you know, you start to get homework in year seven and I was going for doing a little pamphlet run. You know, when you hand in the advertising mail into people's letterboxes. And I was talking to the person doing it and they were like and I was complaining and saying I've got so much homework to do. I'm really stressed about all this homework I've got in year seven. It's the worst thing in the world. And they just looked at me and said just go do homework. Then, like, just go do it. And it's so weird that that keeps on coming back to me whenever I'm stressed about oh, I've got all this stuff to do. The only thing you can do is just go do it. Go do it. It's the only thing. That has to be as complicated.
Speaker 2:No, Jeff Bezos put it perfectly Stress comes from not doing what you know you should be doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe in that. I think for business it's the stress management as much as anything. How do you manage your own locus of control so that you can show up to a client meeting and not be worrying about the person that's sitting on the offer over the weekend, for example, Because you've got to show up 100% for them and you can build trust and be present as well? How do?
Speaker 2:you do that, besides putting a couple extra inches on your arm, since last time we caught, like I'm telling you kids section shirts. That's me. How do you, how do you mitigate that stress as a business owner? Because everyone's feeling it like whether you're with us or not, like every business owner, and I say, like when you fight for your own dollar, it's a whole new level of stress. So, like, how do you, how do you manage?
Speaker 1:that. I think that comes back to purpose a lot in terms of sticking to your core focus. Now I put purpose into two buckets. You have your inner purpose and your outer purpose. Outer purpose for me is let's build this recruitment agency as big as possible, x number and in X number of years, let's say, and that's outer, that's very much. You're in the thick of things. It's a battle On the inner purpose side. This is your core and this is something that, regardless of whatever happens, you still have your inner.
Speaker 1:So for me, the inner purpose is how can you be as peaceful and contented as possible with as little as possible? So can you sit and enjoy the $4.50 or $6 coffee now these days and be happy in that moment, and that's all that matters. If you can be content with that, then it's a win and that's sort of a personal, I guess, happiness journey yourself At the same time having that locus go to battle in the recruitment war as well. So having this core means yeah, I'm going to fight on this hill and I'll die on this hill before this agency fails. But if that did happen, another COVID or something extremely terrible happened in the family let's say this core is still there. So it's like win, lose, fail. I'm battling here, but regardless, you have that core focus. So it means you can go to the recruitment and business world and still be at this base where you're safe, and comfortable and you're still building that contentedness.
Speaker 2:Not many people ever find that. Define that. Not many people ever find that.
Speaker 1:The contentedness. Yeah, I don't think I've got it as well. I think it's a journey, it's a mirage. We're always chasing it right. Naval Ravikant says if you can't be happy with a coffee, you won't be happy with a yacht. Yeah, so, like your level of contentment with what you have won't change in a Ferrari for example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mate, yeah, I've found that in the last 30 days, six weeks, I feel like I've gotten to my true genius and to the point where I've never like felt so free or like abundant, no matter what happens, like nothing can faze me A conversation with the kids you know what used to be a stressful conversation at work or you know whatever. It's just like. It's so calm now and you can. I feel like you can just float through life.
Speaker 1:And enjoying that process and being present for it, regardless of win or fail. But you still have to have this frame of like I'm willing, I'm going to die on this hill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a fucking dog, no one's going to beat me.
Speaker 1:I love that when there's, say, two agencies competing on a roll, I don't think I understand. Yeah, I'm willing to die for this. We're playing different games here, but it's holding two contradictory thoughts in your mind of this is everything. But if everything failed, I still have this locus of calmness and I can just be happy with who I am For sure I could rebuild any day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are contradictory in some manner, but I think you don't have to be. You don't have to counter each other out. You can hold both in your mind as well.
Speaker 2:And what's the future for DR? We're talking 10X.
Speaker 1:Soon to not be DR. We'll have a rebrand soon, you're going to rebrand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, dr Douglas Robertson. So we'll have a rebrand and that's going to step into a little bit of a different vision and mission. So, whether that's uplifting data literacy across Australia, putting Australia on the map in terms of data and analytics, that's there, but definitely the vision, that's the long-term vision, but definitely in the shorter term it's all right. We have a permanent base. We have a permanent base, we have a contracting base. Let's have more events. Let's get the best people in the best roles as well.
Speaker 2:And what's the? You know my favorite thing what's the opportunity cost or cost of inaction if you don't achieve that stuff and you just keep doing what you're doing?
Speaker 1:the cost of inaction if I don't achieve that stuff what if you don't 10x it? What if you don't have?
Speaker 2:a contracting book? What if you don't? 10x it. What if you don't have a contracting book? What if you don't have all that stuff and you just stay doing what you're doing?
Speaker 1:The cost of inaction. I don't think there is a cost because I'm taking the action. Good answer, so it's like it will be. I'll push towards that regardless. Win, fail, the experience is there. That puts my mind at ease.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was worried if you'd said anything else. Matt, is there anything? Like you know, obviously, I've met a few people on the journey. Is there anything that we could help with to support you on this journey at all?
Speaker 1:I get a lot of value from the pods and seeing what you guys do as well. That's really awesome In terms of how you could help. I think it's keep doing what you're doing in terms of putting out that content there. I'm always nudging people towards extra recruiter if they're looking at the agency path as well. Yeah, yeah, nice. But yeah, I love what you're doing. I think it's a lot of value as well.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thanks, brother. This has been a really good combo. What do you reckon?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man. Thanks for inviting me on, really grateful.
Speaker 2:No worries, legend, all the best with DR, all the new rebrand, thank you. Thanks, mate, appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Thanks for tuning in to another Confessions of a Recruiter podcast with Blake and Declan. We hope you enjoyed and got a lot of value and insights out of this episode. If you do have any questions or you would like to recommend someone to come on the Confessions podcast, we would love any introductions and remember the rule of the podcast, like share and recommend it to a friend. Until next time.