Dissecting Disasters: A Dive into Texas History with Mari Nicholson-Preuss

Imagine growing up with the rich history of West Texas as your playground. Stories of pioneers, cowboys, and oilmen shaping not only the land but also your own destiny. That’s exactly what happened with our guest for today, Mary Nicholson-Pruice, a medical historian and sixth-generation Texan. We laugh as she shares a hilarious anecdote about a student getting lost in the trees during her teaching days in Bass Drop. Mary’s childhood stories and West Texas tales are not just entertaining, but also shed light on the unique history of the region and its influence on her career choice. 

Transitioning from medical history to Texas history may seem like a leap, but Mary handles it with aplomb. She gives us a peek into the Handbook of Texas Medicine project of the Texas State Historical Association, where she is actively involved. Disasters are her current research fascination, specifically trauma medicine, emergency responses, and the history of safety and memory. She poses an interesting question during our conversation: what qualifies a situation as a disaster? It's a thought-provoking topic that will make you view disasters in a new light.

Our conversation doesn't stop at just identifying disasters. We delve into the odd phenomenon of people gathering to witness disasters. Mary captivates us with stories from the Texas City disaster of 1947 to the Brownfield explosion of 1958. We also discuss the silver lining that disasters can bring about, like the 1937 New London explosion leading to laws requiring gas to be odorized. We wrap up with the importance of understanding the impact of a disaster on a community, the lessons we can learn, and how technology can help prevent similar disasters in the future. So, join us and let's explore the captivating stories of Texas history together.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This podcast is not sponsored by. It does not reflect the views of the institutions that employ us. It is solely our thoughts and ideas, based upon our professional training and study of the past. ["the Sound of the.

Speaker 2: 0:12

Wind"]. Welcome to Talking Texas History, the podcast that explores Texas history before and beyond the Alamo. Not only will we talk Texas history, we'll visit with folks who teach it, write it, support it, and with some who've made it and, of course, all of us who live it and love it. I'm Scott Sowsby and I'm Gene Pruice, and this is Talking Texas History. ["the Sound of the Wind"]. Welcome to another edition of Talking Texas History. I'm Gene Pruice.

Speaker 1: 0:45

I am Scott Sowsby. What we have for us today Gene.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Well, this is gonna be an interesting conversation. First off, we've got my cat one of my cats who has decided that they need to be on top of the microphone.

Speaker 1: 1:01

So we don't need any of the cat. We don't need any of the cat's because you know cats are inherently evil and so this one might.

Speaker 2: 1:09

But we've got Mary Nicholson-Pruice here. Now she is, for better or for worse, married to me, I don't know what.

Speaker 1: 1:21

We all have decisions we have to regret.

Speaker 2: 1:24

She used to drink a lot, you know, so that was my.

Speaker 1: 1:28

I think, no, I think she drinks more now than she used to she does I think so.

Speaker 2: 1:34

So we're gonna talk about disasters in Texas history.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Well, that's apropos, because the last time we talked about movie disaster, so I guess we can talk about real disasters this time.

Speaker 2: 1:45

That's right, and some people might have said when we got married, that was a disaster.

Speaker 1: 1:51

I don't know. It's like we said you and I have said one time about two people that we used to know that were married each other. It's good that they're married each other, because now there's only two people miserable instead of four.

Speaker 2: 2:01

So that's right, Okay so.

Speaker 3: 2:07

Quite the introduction.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Yeah, so Mary, welcome to Talking Texas History.

Speaker 3: 2:12

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:13

I'm Mary, how are you?

Speaker 3: 2:14

Hi Scott.

Speaker 2: 2:16

So let's tell people a little bit about yourself and your background. You grew up in West Texas, right?

Speaker 1: 2:24

Like all the best people do, by the way.

Speaker 3: 2:26

Like all the best people, I grew up about 30 miles west of Lubbock in the town called Leveland, and it was very flat there. I counted up one day I think I'm a sixth generation Texan, so I've got that going for me. My family moved out there on my dad's side somewhere in the 1920s, so they're committed but grew up in West Texas, went to school in Leveland, went to South Plains College, then I moved on to Texas Tech and that's home and it's an interesting place to be. I think you know I've been in Houston 20 plus years and I'm still a little bothered by trees, suspicious perhaps of what lurks within them. It's just kind of. I think if you from West Texas you know what I'm talking about. If not, it sounds kind of loony. But there is just this kind of real sense of being in place, that kind of creeps into your identity. Yeah, mary doesn't like trees.

Speaker 2: 3:37

In fact, she taught school at a bass drop for a year and didn't you have a student who, like, got lost in the trees?

Speaker 3: 3:44

Yeah, there's like a story of somebody who was like lost in the trees and nobody was really that worried about them, because they always came out.

Speaker 1: 3:54

Lots of people have gotten lost around bass drop but trees or whatever, but that's usually. You know what they've been smoking, instead of you know actually walking around and thinking.

Speaker 3: 4:03

I think this was just kind of. I think no one had even called the authorities or anything and just somebody was lost in the trees and couldn't make it to class.

Speaker 1: 4:11

They probably didn't want them to come back out. What you mean about trees? When I first moved to Nacogdoches for the first six months I lived here, I had claustrophobias. I couldn't see the sun go down, you can't see thunderstorms coming, all you see are these damn trees. It's confining for people that grew up in West Texas for sure. Well you, growing up in West Texas is kind of one of those things. You know, we talked about movies last time and West Texas movies seem to make the best movies because they were more West Texas movies were on the list, although Giant is on our bad list and it's in West Texas too. But we also have a lot of historians from Texas. You know West Texas needs to be. You know a lot of Texas historians come from West Texas. I'm thinking of Walter Binger, currently from Fort Stockton. Right, ralph Steen used to be the president of SFA. Was it historian at UT before you got here? He's from Abilene. So tell us, how did West Texas maybe, or what it was, that got you started and interested in doing history?

Speaker 3: 5:12

Well, yeah, I think you know West Texas has a relatively short history. Growing up in a town that was kind of more or less established in 1920 means that you're kind of around his what's left of history if you're looking at the people who originally there. So I think there's that kind of presence and some to it in a way. But I know that when I was a kid I was always kind of fascinated by the stories. For example, we attended I was briefly in 4h and briefly I want pictures.

Speaker 3: 5:55

And it was very little evidence and it took place in what? In a building that had once been the Phillips Dupree Hospital, and it was one of the first hospitals in level and and when I found that out I was really intrigued. I was far, probably more interested in that fact. Then I was in the fact that we were supposed to be like gluing felt together, and to me it was. It wasn't just that Billy been a hospital, but it was kind of like the whole sense of oh there's, there were other things that happened here, and so there was that, you know, that kind of, I guess, just kind of stumbling into history.

Speaker 3: 6:35

I always liked reading and my parents were always kind of somewhere between me Placing their bets in terms of what are you going to be when you grow up? Are you gonna be, you know, study history. My mother had always had it. You can do history in English. My dad was gunning for me to be an archaeologist because he likes the. He likes the pyramids quite, quite a bit.

Speaker 3: 6:55

My first real interest in like a career possibility was I wanted to be a mine inspector for the US Bureau of Mines, and it was largely. I was fascinated by industrial safety and an industrial accident. So basically I was wanting to do the thing where you crawl down in the burning mines and go poking around and tell people this is broken. And I think it all kind of came together when I was a student at Texas Tech and we started kind of being introduced this concept of social history and I could look more so into the smaller stories of that kind of what my parents would call ghoulish fascination of what happened and why it happened. And I think it's just, I just kind of stumbled into it that way and I ended up doing master, master's, majoring in history and English. And then once I kind of worked my way and found social history and history of medicine class that Ron Ranger taught you know I was hooked. So that's kind of where I ended up being interested in history.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Well, that brings us to another question. So all of us went to Texas Tech Scott, you and I and you but you went there for your bachelor and your master's, and this is the 100th anniversary of the show on the 100th anniversary of Texas. You mentioned Ron Rangers, but what were some of your favorite courses and your favorite professors?

Speaker 3: 8:34

I loved Ron Ranger. He was incredible. I had him for the history of medicine class and undergraduate had him for history of medicine as a graduate student. Don Walker's Texas history class was awesome and I took this. As somebody who has no intention of majoring in any sort of Texas history. It was great. I took classes with David Triansky. I did an interest trailer. I mean I think I got all of the all the kind of, I guess, if you're like counting off ticking the boxes of who to have in the history department, john, how I did a lot of those classes. We were really really fortunate to have some of the professors that we had, so they're all my favorites. And I never took class with Paul Carlson, but he's amazing person.

Speaker 1: 9:24

so yeah, we had fantastic professors. I mean we really did. They taught us a lot about this. I like the way you said ghoulish fascination, because I remember you there. Of course, you know you're fascinated by a lot of ghoulish things being you know, writing about disease and medicine and things like that. But in all that said you you know name those professors. You didn't start off as a Texas historian. You didn't write about Texas. You did a lot of European things. What besides yeah, besides besides marrying Jean, what got you started in being a Texas historian? Because most of your stuff now is about Texas?

Speaker 3: 10:00

Yeah, Well, I think the cool thing with anything having to do with science, technology, medicine, is it's transnational. That's so much of kind of the core of the field of study can be applied to any location, and so I think it would make. I actually when I was writing my dissertation I was going to do comparisons between Houston and a couple of hospitals in London, but you know, the Houston story was just the bigger story and kind of stumbled into the Texas side that way. But I think you know, having a field that's not necessarily bound by regional constraints made it an easy leap for me and also kind of it goes back kind of to that reason why I was really fascinated with history to begin with is kind of getting to the root of some of those stories that I grew up with and kind of that real nitty gritty aspects of what interests me.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Now you started off as a as you were just saying, a medical historian, and you've worked in and written articles for the Texas State Historical Association's medical handbook of history. Right, tell us a little bit about that project.

Speaker 3: 11:13

The handbook of Texas Medicine is really.

Speaker 3: 11:15

It's a, it's a fast and it's a well, it's a needed piece to the Texas handbook program, and what we're doing is we're catching up all of the entries on medicine, doctors, medical discoveries, veterinarians all those key players that play such an important role in the history of medicine.

Speaker 3: 11:39

Now, one of the interesting things about history of medicine is that we're one of the few disciplines in history we didn't come from history departments. History of medicine actually came from the medical schools into the history departments, and so to this day, we're still a lot of medical history is still being written by clinicians, and so it, with the handbook project, it's been really fascinating. Heather Wooten has been the editor on it and you know we've we've brought together people who are practicing physicians as well as academics to kind of fill in all those gaps, and so it's an interesting area of study because we work so well across borders in terms of. You know, when I go to my conferences there's just as many MDs as PhDs, and but the handbook of Texas Medicine project is super cool. I've written quite a few of the entries on West Texas doctors and I've enjoyed doing that because you know it's filling in the gaps for the guys that were in Big Spring and out there in San Angelo Lubbock. So it's a great project and still evolving.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Well, yeah, I mean the handbook of Texas Medicine is really great. I mean I can't wait for them. I mean it's still growing, it's still going and that's another great effort that trained historians are doing for the Texas State Historical Association. But you wrote your dissertation on the history of influences and thesis. But now you're doing something else, right, my master's thesis was an influence of pandemic. Okay.

Speaker 1: 13:13

My dissertation was on antibiotic resistance, staphococcal infections and neonatal wards in Houston's public health, I couldn't even say that much left research, but you're getting into something now. Now you're doing research on disasters. Yes, what has it been made you fascinated with disaster?

Speaker 3: 13:35

Well, with disasters it's kind of, you know, it's kind of it's interdisciplinary, first off because it brings together medicine still a component of it, because I've been doing a lot more on trauma medicine and emergency responses the safety components there, the history of safety and efforts to improve, you know, prevent accidents. And then there's also that other, and it says another facet of this goes back to me being a French historian originally is getting into a history of memory, our concept of what things we remember and how we remember them. And disasters themselves are kind of we know what a disaster is, but it's really something that's more than just a single event. It's a chain of events and it's overlapping, kind of. You know, it's almost like a Venn diagram where you have all of these interactive features and facets that are converging at a single point, and so for disasters you're getting multiple perspectives but multiple responses, and I think for history it's really a rich field for research.

Speaker 2: 14:46

So, with all those different aspects, I mean, what do you consider a disaster? I mean there's lots of things that could be considered disasters. Are they natural disasters? Are they manmade disasters? What kind of disasters interest you?

Speaker 3: 14:59

Well, I think you know it's and I use this term disaster kind of loosely and you know there's actually a field study called critical disaster studies where they look at trying to understand when do we call something a disaster? Because a disaster is something like it has more gravitas to it. It's kind of like the Texas city disaster, which was a notable explosion but, yeah, people died, things exploded. That's a disaster because of its scope, but at the same time we also have things that we might write off as a catastrophe, a personal disaster, accidents that have ramifications, and so I think it kind of fits into a broad concept of trauma. Do we have trauma at a national, regional, local, personal level? And so I play a little bit loose with the term. Definitely we have. Hurricane. Katrina is a disaster, but if we look at something like on a smaller scale of the community and individuals' personal levels of loss related to that disaster, then or the kind of tip of the iceberg concept is like all of those other places where people have been affected by it.

Speaker 2: 16:14

You were also looking at like at a car wreck. I mean that's an individual, I mean it was a family.

Speaker 3: 16:19

Right. One of my ongoing research projects has to do with a family of that had been this horrific accident in Muleshoe, texas, on the 1950s and five children died in the accident. And in terms of talking about personal disasters, personal in the accident itself, though, when I've looked at this and I'm not gonna say the names of the family because I'm still working on this project the level of kind of ripple effects that came from this and with a lot of our things that we do with automobile accidents and such, it's not there are single events, but you can always start looking at everything else that's related to it. That goes into even how we remember certain places. Growing up in West Texas there's always these roads that you're not supposed to take because you hear from your parents. So you take that road. That's the one everybody has the accidents on, it's deemed unsafe and so it gets into this kind of collective memory. And I think, from an academic perspective and this is where, as a teaching tool or as kind of a way to inspire other historians, there's so much to be had, so much to delve into from these single events. And it also ties nicely into the rich historical newspaper resources we have, also through the Texas State Historical Association, the Portal Texas History, and these are ways of kind of how people react to things In terms of talking about what makes something a disaster and how it gets into our kind of our public consciousness.

Speaker 3: 18:04

In San Antonio they have the railroad tracks. Everybody knows the story of the railroad tracks where the ghost children come and they pushed your car over the railroad tracks, the school bus accident that quote unquote everyone remembers, with the 30 dead children. It didn't happen in San Antonio, it happened in Utah. Except the San Antonio light and the express did three days of intensive coverage of this bus accident in the 1930s, so much so that they went back and they asked people who are dead certain that that thing happened in San Antonio and this is why you have these school bus ghosts in this railroad track. It happened in Utah. It was just the people were so connected to this that they just assumed it was there and so this was a disaster somewhere else, but it lived on in the memory of. There's your legend for the ghost children.

Speaker 2: 19:05

Yeah, it just kind of conflated the story with that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 19:08

I know I'd never heard it. I always assume that happened in San Antonio. That's kind of fascinating. Well, jean and I have done, we've been to podcast and roll, where we had a list of movies, so I guess we're into lists as now. And so of course, I did, like you, talk about personal disasters. If you have one personal disaster unless you can put my golf game on there it's just been pretty bad here lately. But give us some examples of and I'm sure we're talking about larger scale events here. If you were to pick five, the five most historically significant disasters in Texas history, what would your list be?

Speaker 3: 19:45

That list is going to be the Texas city. I've Waco tornado, the Levitt tornado, the Galveston hurricane. I would even put the Bastrop fire in there from 2011. That was pretty significant. That's all kind of natural disasters I think I would if I were going to add some other ones to it, and that does were big. I mean Galveston hurricane, big Texas city, very well known.

Speaker 2: 20:18

Let's talk a little bit about them, because not everybody may be as familiar with them as we are, so, and I don't even know that I'm that familiar with all of them.

Speaker 3: 20:26

So yeah, I mean the Texas city disaster was in 1947, right and Texas city.

Speaker 2: 20:32

And so what? Tell us what happened?

Speaker 3: 20:35

There was boats, ships that were moored at dock, there was fire, we have nitrogen and ammonia all of our good fertilizer ingredients there and everybody. And this is something interesting with disaster studies, there's a whole period of let's go see, and this whole concept of let's go see it, as it happens, is very fascinating, and so you have all these people converging down in the Texas city docks.

Speaker 2: 21:05

It's like watching a train wreck right, Everybody literally watching the train.

Speaker 1: 21:08

Or like in Lubbock, because I'm a Lubbock. Every time Like hey, there's a tornado, people don't take cover. They go outside, in the yard. People go outside and look for it.

Speaker 3: 21:15

Yeah, they go outside and look for it and there's all these pictures of the like. It's like turkeys looking up and waiting to drown, but everybody go down went down to the Texas city docks and there had been a couple of explosions. The fire was going on and then there was another major explosion that was catastrophic. An interesting correlation to this and this is where I wrap this back to West Texas is one of the and this was one that I had always heard about growing up.

Speaker 3: 21:43

In 19, I think it was 1953, 58, yeah, 1958, around Christmas time in Brownfield there was a double tank butane hauler on the Brownfield highway and these were these massive propane tanks on the back of a truck. And there was an accident and the tanks had been flipped over and so there's a fire and so you've got this huge butane tanks. You know, I mean, the accident was so severe that it ground the valves into the asphalt and so what do people do? 500 people I don't know where you get 500 people for Brownfield, but 500 people converged out there on the Brownfield Highway to watch this. And of course, you know you've got the person who was the driver of the butane truck. He's running around trying to tell people get the hell out of here, get the hell out of here. And of course you've got the looky loos like I'm gonna go see the accident, and the thing exploded and I think there were about five. I think about five people died in this form, but it was 500 people. There were all of these serious burns and such.

Speaker 3: 23:05

And what's interesting is they used this as a kind of a mass casualty event that the Civil Defense Program used for PrEP for an atomic disaster, an atomic attack, basically on the fact that the level of the burns, the surge on local hospitals and things, and this was something as a kid I had heard about this because there was always a weird ghost story related to these things. And I then when I was working in my dissertation I stumbled across it because I was also working in that same period in the 1950s in the Journal of the American Medical Association had a write up about it as that mass casualty event that they were using for research into treating burns over a large population in small hospitals. And to me it was just kind of fascinating because I'd heard this. Like I said, there's always a weird ghost ambulance story or something like that and I'd heard about that, but it wasn't really until I'd read the article and then I go back to the newspapers and see this again.

Speaker 3: 24:16

It was people showing up to like let's go watch the accident. Same way with the Delta Airlines crash years ago in Fort Worth. I mean people brought their kids to see the burning wreckage of the airplane. There's something to be said about it. But this was a case where the bystanders, those who had come to see the disaster, are natural kind of curiosity, like let's go look at it. Much like Texas city then became part of it. Another case butane trucks are always fascinating for me. Denison, they had a 1937. This is why we have you can't drive, you know hazardous cargo down Main Street. They had another accident with a butane truck middle of town kind of situation. Thing blew up and a lot of people were injured. But a lot of people who were injured were ones that showed up. I mean they went out of their way to go see, so they worked for their injury.

Speaker 2: 25:15

Well, it's almost like the you know the new London explosion in the 37, and which ended up getting very rapidly a federal law that said natural gas had to be odorized.

Speaker 3: 25:32

Right and it was a state law first and that was actually. I had the date wrong on. I got New London state confused with Denison. Denison was 1944, new London was before.

Speaker 3: 25:43

But there was a lot of concern about you know, we love gas. It's good at the same time, you know it's explosive and trying so that it wouldn't be a disaster or an accident that would affect a lot of people. New London was kind of Again, it was. It happened at a time. It got a lot of coverage and I think for Texas you know this kind of it was a story that resonated across the nation. But if you look at the broader history of and of course here goes back to me of school fires, there were also a lot. There was a lot of academic talk, especially amongst safety officers and things about what do we do to prevent casualties and school fires, and there were a lot of hospital fires as well. You know, in terms of things like fire drills, you know why do we have fire drills? Because when we didn't, people didn't know how to get out of buildings.

Speaker 1: 26:45

That's kind of fascinating that while disasters are terrible and the human toll is awful, we often have a lot of positive things come out of disaster. You mentioned the Lubbock tornado in 1970, for example. Terrible tornado killed people. By the way, they have a wonderful memorial to the Lubbock, to the 19th Saint's tornado in Lubbock. Now it's fascinating to go see. But one of the effects of the Lubbock tornado is that it actually modernized Lubbock as they used that to do some urban renewal and build things. And then also Texas Tech began seriously studying tornadoes and now they leave the nation and win damage and they have a whole department that does that. So it's kind of fascinating that these disasters can lead us to things like that.

Speaker 2: 27:33

So almost it's. You know, of course, a lot of times you were talking earlier some of these things become cautionary tales. Right, we should. You might learn a lesson as a kid. Don't do that, and I think that's where that San Antonio bus wreck, you know. Go over there and you know it kind of becomes, you know, kind of like Grimm's fairy tales. They were stories that were to teach a lesson, but in you're also saying that they also led to policy and to practices that were embedded in institutions to help prevent those kinds of things from happening again.

Speaker 3: 28:07

Right and you know, you and I do most of my work in the 20th century and it's very interesting because you have kind of this convergence of first off trauma medicine is improving dramatically. At the same time you're having more studies into especially with the world wars, emergency medicine and transport. You're also seeing, you know, beginning the 19 teams with the safety movement studies of why do we have accidents, what can, what kind of preventive measures can we take? And you know, and then when we get through to, you know, some of the public health awareness programs, things like farm safety week you know that's fire safety week and these are the things that they're actually. You know these are all products of congressional hearings where they, you know, brought in all of these experts to talk about you know why are there so many accidents on the farm. And ultimately that leads to more, actually leads to some coverage in OSHA.

Speaker 3: 29:12

But then OSHA doesn't necessarily. We'll talk about farmers and safety later but OSHA doesn't cover farmers the same way. But for industry, I mean, a lot of this safety talk and accident provision is exactly what leads to OSHA and better regulations. But for farm safety it was more difficult to police the family farm. So a lot of the accident prevention went to tractors and putting things like rollover prevention, which is you know why you have little re-roll bars on tractors, and then things like PTO covers, so what you know. Again, going back to this kind of broad definition of what is a disaster, if we look at it as disasters or things that you know, can you know, like farm safety, if people are looking at PTO, injuries and you know safety matters, that can be like a national disaster, like an epidemic of accident.

Speaker 1: 30:13

That's true, and is that, if that's the main, would you say? Is that so? I mean, I don't know how long the history of studying disasters is a kind of subfield or subgenre of our profession. Is that the primary value of studying natural disasters or any kind of disasters? Is that? Is that what we should do and what we should look for to study in them? Things like that.

Speaker 3: 30:37

You know, with the study I mean what it does is it's there's, like I said, in terms of a teaching tool and what we can do for our students and encourage you know, delving deep into how it gives you a better sense of how an event affects the community more broadly. You're looking at those that are most affected by it and then those that could be affected by it, how we remember things, the technology that we use to put in place to prevent future. I mean, these are lessons learned at multiple levels, from the personal to the policy, and I think the study of them it goes on. It goes from just being you know, gee, I wonder what happened with this roadside cross here to looking into the fact that you know there are still more accidents, head on, collisions on rural highways and the, you know, accidents on rural highways are far more deadly than those on the cities.

Speaker 3: 31:37

So it's really it's something that I think captures kind of that looky loo tendencies. Yes, we're going to all go stand and watch the burning butane bottles, but in more of an academic way. You know, let yourself be curious about it, but then see what else happens. And I think you know, and for students, I always tell them like go dig into the newspapers, find yourself something to latch on to and see where you can take it from there. And we've had some really great projects that have been about natural disasters, about, you know, kind of personal disasters, kinds of things. But I think, especially for young historians or for students really tapping into research, I think it's a really fascinating kind of way to look and see.

Speaker 2: 32:23

Well, you know, somebody once said you know history is a list of all the, you know errors and misdeeds, and you know problems of humanity, or something like that, and so I think in disasters, I mean, that too is a good historical topic. I think maybe sometimes we overlook, especially those of us who were trained as more political historians. Well, Mary, we always ask one question of all of our guests, and you're no different. So, Mary Nicholson-Proys, what do you know?

Speaker 1: 33:02

Trust in the force If we go the most philosophical what do you know we've ever gotten. It just beats everything else than it has to force. I just got a text message from a friend of all of ours that he was wondering what was happening. I told him that Mary is doing something on disasters for a podcast and he replied she knows about disasters other than her poor choice of marriage. So you know I mean there you go. Well, like this has been pretty good, I like this.

Speaker 2: 33:35

Thank you Well, scott. That wraps it up.

Speaker 1: 33:40

You know we're coming upon a year, I know we're going to do some sort of a special show for a year. I mean, I think our first show was in August. So sometime in our August up we have to do a yearly recap of something. Maybe we do a list. We like doing this. Maybe do a list of our favorite shows.

Speaker 2: 33:56

Well, they were all favorites.

Speaker 1: 33:58

Well, most of them are. I mean we can, or some of them we can discount right, Some of those we did by ourselves.

Speaker 2: 34:07

Yeah, we'll have to do something. We're going to, by the way, folks, we are going while we do have a Facebook page now, we didn't create one because we didn't know how long this show was going to go on, but for the tens of you that listen on a regular, day we're approaching 3000 views so far. You know, I mean, we'll think of something. Well, and so, Mary, thank you for being on the show. Scott, we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Okay, thanks a lot for your focus.