{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Breaking down everyday workplace "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"not just the obvious symptom. "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"Our hosts, James and Coby."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":10.16,"endTime":11.98,"body":"Did we lose a patient?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":11.98,"endTime":14.96,"body":"No, that's just my lunch."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.96,"endTime":22.52,"body":"Hey, thanks for joining us. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.96,"endTime":22.52,"body":"I'm Coby, he's James. And let's get  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":22.52,"endTime":29.96,"body":"started with a question. What is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":22.52,"endTime":29.96,"body":"the technical founder Paradox?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":29.96,"endTime":36.24,"body":"Yeah, so this is an interesting "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":29.96,"endTime":36.24,"body":"phenomenon that I've seen play out in a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":36.24,"endTime":41.8,"body":"lot of small and medium businesses. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":36.24,"endTime":41.8,"body":"not only with our work at Roman 3,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":41.8,"endTime":46.04,"body":"but even going back to, like, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":41.8,"endTime":46.04,"body":"my economic development days,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":46.04,"endTime":52.52,"body":"essentially, the technical founder paradox. It's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":46.04,"endTime":52.52,"body":"a name that we've given to the idea that there  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":52.52,"endTime":60.08,"body":"comes a time in the natural lifecycle for many "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":52.52,"endTime":60.08,"body":"small and medium businesses where the depth of  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":60.08,"endTime":67.2,"body":"knowledge and skills that were required to really "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":60.08,"endTime":67.2,"body":"launch the business and to gain that initial,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":67.2,"endTime":75.68,"body":"market penetration and market, share, actually "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":67.2,"endTime":75.68,"body":"ends up becoming a bit of a roadblock,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":75.68,"endTime":81.32,"body":"that keeps the company from being able to push "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":75.68,"endTime":81.32,"body":"through that next hurdle and continue to grow in  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":81.32,"endTime":90.04,"body":"scale. There's four questions or elements that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":81.32,"endTime":90.04,"body":"I think would be interesting for us to explore  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":90.04,"endTime":98.92,"body":"in our conversation. so what is it and how does it "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":90.04,"endTime":98.92,"body":"happen? where do we see it and kind of what does  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":98.92,"endTime":106.08,"body":"it look like? what are some warning signs that we "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":98.92,"endTime":106.08,"body":"can try to identify whether or not we are falling  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":106.08,"endTime":114.48,"body":"into this technical founder paradox trap? and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":106.08,"endTime":114.48,"body":"then ultimately, what can we do about this?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":114.48,"endTime":119.84,"body":"Yeah, and it's something that. It's funny "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":114.48,"endTime":119.84,"body":"because, not that long ago, a few weeks ago, I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":120.4,"endTime":127.6,"body":"gave a keynote, and I mentioned this when I was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":120.4,"endTime":127.6,"body":"talking about kind of trends in different sectors  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":127.6,"endTime":135.6,"body":"around retention and, labor attraction. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":127.6,"endTime":135.6,"body":"And it was something that I kind of just,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":135.6,"endTime":140.16,"body":"you know, kind of brought up when I was talking "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":135.6,"endTime":140.16,"body":"about the common things that happen in, like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":140.16,"endTime":145.76,"body":"you know, in that. In that keynote, I was talking "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":140.16,"endTime":145.76,"body":"about like, a high tech, you know, like, ICT,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":145.76,"endTime":150.6,"body":"those types of things, saying, this is very common "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":145.76,"endTime":150.6,"body":"when, you know, very technical positions. The,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":150.6,"endTime":156.04,"body":"you know, this, leadership team that is. That "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":150.6,"endTime":156.04,"body":"creates it can end up becoming, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":156.04,"endTime":161.44,"body":"having a difficult time with scalability when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":156.04,"endTime":161.44,"body":"the skills that got them to where they are not  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.44,"endTime":165.64,"body":"the skills that they need to get to it, to the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.44,"endTime":165.64,"body":"next stage. And had a few people actually come.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":165.64,"endTime":171.4,"body":"I've had a few conversations since then. People "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":165.64,"endTime":171.4,"body":"have referenced that. And, so it's funny because,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":172.2,"endTime":178.44,"body":"we mentioned it in our last episode, and we've "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":172.2,"endTime":178.44,"body":"had some comments from listeners about that, too.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":178.44,"endTime":184.36,"body":"So it's something that I think, I'm really glad "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":178.44,"endTime":184.36,"body":"that we're taking a whole episode talk about it,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":184.36,"endTime":187.92,"body":"because it is something that is that people "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":184.36,"endTime":187.92,"body":"seem to really kind of be connecting with."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":187.92,"endTime":191.76,"body":"And I want to provide a little bit "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":187.92,"endTime":191.76,"body":"of clarity because we call it the technical  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":191.76,"endTime":199.32,"body":"founder paradox. But we're not talking, it's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":191.76,"endTime":199.32,"body":"not the tech founder paradox. It's not the, it's  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":199.32,"endTime":208.36,"body":"not one specific type of skill set. It is what "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":199.32,"endTime":208.36,"body":"happens. So we start businesses because we have,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":208.36,"endTime":216.72,"body":"from our own expertise right now, I'm talking "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":208.36,"endTime":216.72,"body":"broad strokes majority of the time. You know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":216.72,"endTime":224.84,"body":"we, we have an expertise in education, in training "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":216.72,"endTime":224.84,"body":"in human resource management. And so we built a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":224.84,"endTime":233.32,"body":"business around that. We identified a market "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":224.84,"endTime":233.32,"body":"gap. We have m solutions to fill to fix the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":233.32,"endTime":239.44,"body":"problems that we see in them in this marketplace, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":233.32,"endTime":239.44,"body":"and we've kind of constructed our business around  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":239.44,"endTime":247.76,"body":"that. That is a very natural progression. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":239.44,"endTime":247.76,"body":"how many, many businesses start? A founder or  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":247.76,"endTime":254.88,"body":"group of founders have a deeper, deep technical "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":247.76,"endTime":254.88,"body":"knowledge around a particular niche or industry,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":254.88,"endTime":262.28,"body":"and they build a business, from the ground up "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":254.88,"endTime":262.28,"body":"to solve the problems that they've identified  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":262.28,"endTime":269.12,"body":"within that industry. And by doing that, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":262.28,"endTime":269.12,"body":"you can, when you're small and nimble,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":269.12,"endTime":275.48,"body":"you're able to respond and react very quickly. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":269.12,"endTime":275.48,"body":"you're able to use your deep technical knowledge  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":275.48,"endTime":282.8,"body":"to kind of guide the growth of the company. The "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":275.48,"endTime":282.8,"body":"paradox that we're talking about, where that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":282.8,"endTime":291.52,"body":"kind of comes into play is once you're beyond that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":282.8,"endTime":291.52,"body":"initial startup phase and the company is growing,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":291.52,"endTime":299.64,"body":"you're adding employees. you're adding layers "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":291.52,"endTime":299.64,"body":"or levels of authority within the company.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":300.56,"endTime":308.8,"body":"and the founders are no longer required to do a "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":300.56,"endTime":308.8,"body":"lot of the work. Now, they still have to do a lot  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":308.8,"endTime":316.12,"body":"of work, but they're not doing a lot of the day to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":308.8,"endTime":316.12,"body":"day, hands on development of product service work."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":316.12,"endTime":316.86,"body":"But not in the weeds."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":316.86,"endTime":321.48,"body":"They're not in the weeds. Their "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":316.86,"endTime":321.48,"body":"responsibilities have grown from having to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":321.48,"endTime":328.04,"body":"do everything and deliver their product, create "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":321.48,"endTime":328.04,"body":"or deliver their product or service to more of a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":328.04,"endTime":336.52,"body":"business development leadership growth strategy "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":328.04,"endTime":336.52,"body":"angle. And the skills that were required that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":336.52,"endTime":342.6,"body":"made them so successful in the early stages and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":336.52,"endTime":342.6,"body":"got them to where they are are outdated. It's  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":342.6,"endTime":351.64,"body":"a m mismatch of skill sets. And now they have. Now "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":342.6,"endTime":351.64,"body":"they're in a position where the depth of knowledge  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":351.64,"endTime":360.5,"body":"that they have is not equal to the breadth of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":351.64,"endTime":360.5,"body":"responsibilities that they need to perform."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":360.5,"endTime":364.56,"body":"Yeah, and you're right. So the term "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":360.5,"endTime":364.56,"body":"technical, we definitely don't want people  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":364.56,"endTime":371.76,"body":"to confuse it with tech, because I think the best "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":364.56,"endTime":371.76,"body":"way to kind of really kind of flesh out what it is  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":371.76,"endTime":378.56,"body":"when we say technical founder is, a few podcasts "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":371.76,"endTime":378.56,"body":"ago, we did an episode about what's called, like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":378.56,"endTime":381.44,"body":"what skills required to be successful and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":378.56,"endTime":381.44,"body":"in there, we talked about the difference  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":381.44,"endTime":387.48,"body":"between technical skills and employability "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":381.44,"endTime":387.48,"body":"skills. And when we say the technical founder,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":387.48,"endTime":394.8,"body":"we mean that person that is an expert on the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":387.48,"endTime":394.8,"body":"technical components of their jobs. But again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":394.8,"endTime":400.6,"body":"that, you know, but like, we've seen this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":394.8,"endTime":400.6,"body":"in, you know, the hospitality industry,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":400.6,"endTime":406.36,"body":"we've seen this in the education industry, we've "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":400.6,"endTime":406.36,"body":"seen it in tech, we've even seen it in nonprofits.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":406.36,"endTime":414.0,"body":"It's not that it's about the person that has "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":406.36,"endTime":414.0,"body":"this, you know, this doctorate of engineering,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":414.0,"endTime":421.96,"body":"and it's only about that. It's about if someone "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":414.0,"endTime":421.96,"body":"has a great depth of knowledge in the technical  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":421.96,"endTime":428.68,"body":"aspects, like the work, the product, the service "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":421.96,"endTime":428.68,"body":"aspects of an industry. And like I said, create a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":428.68,"endTime":436.52,"body":"business to fill that need. And that need is doing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":428.68,"endTime":436.52,"body":"well, then they're, they at some point hit a wall,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":436.52,"endTime":441.2,"body":"and it's in the wall is usually around when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":436.52,"endTime":441.2,"body":"they're trying to scale the business. That  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":441.2,"endTime":448.2,"body":"the skills that got them to the success they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":441.2,"endTime":448.2,"body":"have today are the exact likely skills are  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":448.2,"endTime":453.58,"body":"going to hold them back as, they try and move "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":448.2,"endTime":453.58,"body":"up to this. They try and level up the business."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":453.58,"endTime":461.04,"body":"Yeah. And you, I think it would be really "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":453.58,"endTime":461.04,"body":"helpful for us to talk about, like, you identified  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":461.04,"endTime":469.32,"body":"a couple different, places where we've seen it. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":461.04,"endTime":469.32,"body":"the nonprofit example is always one that I found  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":469.32,"endTime":474.36,"body":"interesting. There are some really cool ones that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":469.32,"endTime":474.36,"body":"we've, well, I say cool from a. It sucked for  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":474.36,"endTime":479.44,"body":"the club, for the in, for the business, because "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":474.36,"endTime":479.44,"body":"they were struggling. But I think it makes for a,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":480.2,"endTime":489.8,"body":"good illustrative point. so this particular "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":480.2,"endTime":489.8,"body":"example was a community, focused nonprofit  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":490.56,"endTime":498.52,"body":"delivering, services in the community. That was "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":490.56,"endTime":498.52,"body":"their intent. If you've ever worked in a nonprofit  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":498.52,"endTime":507.2,"body":"or anything that's reliant on government funding, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":498.52,"endTime":507.2,"body":"then you understand the sheer volume of paperwork  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":507.2,"endTime":515.12,"body":"that's involved in the formation and the, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":507.2,"endTime":515.12,"body":"accessing grants and reporting requirements and  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":515.12,"endTime":525.48,"body":"all of the, what I would find mind numbing aspects "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":515.12,"endTime":525.48,"body":"of that, the administrative requirements. It is  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":525.48,"endTime":533.76,"body":"foundational and fundamental and so important in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":525.48,"endTime":533.76,"body":"the formation of a not for profit that that skill  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":533.76,"endTime":542.2,"body":"set is absolutely essential. And what we saw was "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":533.76,"endTime":542.2,"body":"a, founder. The person who kind of kicked this  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":542.2,"endTime":549.84,"body":"organization off, had a very strong skillset in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":542.2,"endTime":549.84,"body":"that they were an excellent administrator. They  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":549.84,"endTime":555.84,"body":"were able to chase, funding, they were working "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":549.84,"endTime":555.84,"body":"with partners, they were reporting on it,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":555.84,"endTime":561.08,"body":"they were able to keep very busy in making "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":555.84,"endTime":561.08,"body":"sure that everything in terms of the reporting  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":561.08,"endTime":569.72,"body":"requirements were handled very, very well. Where "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":561.08,"endTime":569.72,"body":"they ran into problems was on the people side.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":569.72,"endTime":578.7,"body":"Once it required people to deliver services, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":569.72,"endTime":578.7,"body":"they unfortunately were out of their element."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.7,"endTime":585.92,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I remember, I remember this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.7,"endTime":585.92,"body":"was executive director, and the executive director  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":585.92,"endTime":595.56,"body":"was. They knew the services of the sector so well. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":585.92,"endTime":595.56,"body":"Like, again, a lot of eds that go into nonprofits,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":595.56,"endTime":600.92,"body":"like, you know, if you're, you know, for example, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":595.56,"endTime":600.92,"body":"if you're, into mental, health services, usually  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":600.92,"endTime":605.08,"body":"the person has a strong mental health background. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":600.92,"endTime":605.08,"body":"They know mental health. Right. And you're right,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":605.08,"endTime":610.08,"body":"you know, and having that, that ability to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":605.08,"endTime":610.08,"body":"understand kind of the infrastructural work  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":610.08,"endTime":614.0,"body":"of a nonprofit. And this person kind of had "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":610.08,"endTime":614.0,"body":"both the infrastructure role, like, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":614.0,"endTime":621.08,"body":"startup administrative pieces down cold, and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":614.0,"endTime":621.08,"body":"they had a deep knowledge of the, of the topic,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":621.08,"endTime":626.64,"body":"of the services that they provided, but "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":621.08,"endTime":626.64,"body":"they did not have the leadership skills,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":626.64,"endTime":633.32,"body":"the management skills, the, the stakeholder "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":626.64,"endTime":633.32,"body":"engagement skills that they needed to actually  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":633.32,"endTime":641.36,"body":"kind of move the organization to reach what its "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":633.32,"endTime":641.36,"body":"funders and stakeholders had in mind for it. And,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":641.36,"endTime":648.12,"body":"and that problematic piece was, you know, they, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":641.36,"endTime":648.12,"body":"again, they hit the wall and then they were very,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":648.12,"endTime":655.2,"body":"very, very busy every day. But those that were "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":648.12,"endTime":655.2,"body":"relying on the outcomes that they were supposed  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":655.2,"endTime":662.8,"body":"to provide were not seeing it because they didn't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":655.2,"endTime":662.8,"body":"have the ability to empower, mobilize and provide  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":662.8,"endTime":667.12,"body":"it, you know, through, through employees, they, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":662.8,"endTime":667.12,"body":"they hit the wall. They couldn't do any more of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":667.12,"endTime":671.4,"body":"it on their own. They needed to trust and have "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":667.12,"endTime":671.4,"body":"the people to deliver it for them. And they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":671.4,"endTime":675.76,"body":"couldn't maintain this. They couldn't have "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":671.4,"endTime":675.76,"body":"employee retention to provide consistency."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":675.76,"endTime":679.12,"body":"And honestly, one of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":675.76,"endTime":679.12,"body":"the biggest problems was that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":680.12,"endTime":684.4,"body":"being used to doing everything themselves "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":680.12,"endTime":684.4,"body":"and having a very administrative focus,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":684.4,"endTime":691.44,"body":"unfortunately led to a tremendous amount of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":684.4,"endTime":691.44,"body":"micromanagement, which you're hiring highly  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":691.44,"endTime":697.96,"body":"skilled professionals to deliver services "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":691.44,"endTime":697.96,"body":"and then putting them in a box. And it just,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":697.96,"endTime":704.72,"body":"it drove people away. And unfortunately, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":697.96,"endTime":704.72,"body":"that's more common than we would like to admit."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":704.72,"endTime":712.631,"body":"And I mean, and unfortunately, this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":704.72,"endTime":712.631,"body":"story has the person being, required to be."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":712.631,"endTime":714.62,"body":"Being asked to step down."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":714.62,"endTime":719.48,"body":"Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, then, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":714.62,"endTime":719.48,"body":"know, part of the work that we did with them  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":719.48,"endTime":723.92,"body":"was helping kind of, provide the new, the new "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":719.48,"endTime":723.92,"body":"leadership and everything else like that, too,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":723.92,"endTime":727.76,"body":"to kind of help build the infrastructure "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":723.92,"endTime":727.76,"body":"for, for that pieces. I mean, that didn't,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":727.76,"endTime":731.88,"body":"sorry. Didn't have to have a great "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":727.76,"endTime":731.88,"body":"ending. But it does speak to, I think."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.9,"body":"Well, not every reality is. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":731.88,"endTime":735.9,"body":"Not every story has a happy ending."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":735.9,"endTime":741.2,"body":"That's fair. But I think, though, that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":735.9,"endTime":741.2,"body":"what I like about that example is it's a good  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":741.2,"endTime":747.34,"body":"way to indicate we're not just talking about "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":741.2,"endTime":747.34,"body":"tech rods. Talking about, high science and high."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":747.34,"endTime":754.12,"body":"You know, I mean, anyone with that depth "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":747.34,"endTime":754.12,"body":"of knowledge who that technical understanding  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":754.12,"endTime":761.16,"body":"that technical understanding in one area. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":754.12,"endTime":761.16,"body":"And I'm gonna. This probably is gonna sound  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":761.16,"endTime":769.24,"body":"harsher than I intend it, but it's a failure to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":761.16,"endTime":769.24,"body":"recognize the importance of, the other elements  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":769.24,"endTime":779.12,"body":"of the job. A leadership like leading an "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":769.24,"endTime":779.12,"body":"organization, is not about one particular  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":779.8,"endTime":785.0,"body":"skillset. It's about a breadth of knowledge you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":779.8,"endTime":785.0,"body":"have to. You don't need to do everything yourself.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":785.0,"endTime":790.24,"body":"You should not try to do everything yourself. But "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":785.0,"endTime":790.24,"body":"you need to know enough about all of the different  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":790.24,"endTime":798.36,"body":"elements of running and growing a business so "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":790.24,"endTime":798.36,"body":"that you can be, hold accountable those who you  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":798.36,"endTime":804.96,"body":"empower to take on those other responsibilities. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":798.36,"endTime":804.96,"body":"You need to know enough about marketing and sales  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":804.96,"endTime":811.96,"body":"to understand, whether or not you're vp of sales "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":804.96,"endTime":811.96,"body":"is actually delivering on what they need to do.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":811.96,"endTime":821.12,"body":"Same with operations, same with human resources, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":811.96,"endTime":821.12,"body":"same with, finances. Or procurement. You don't  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":821.12,"endTime":831.16,"body":"need to be able to have the bread, the depth "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":821.12,"endTime":831.16,"body":"of knowledge to do that job in every, instance,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":831.16,"endTime":836.08,"body":"but you need to have the breadth of knowledge "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":831.16,"endTime":836.08,"body":"to understand what's happening and make sure  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":836.08,"endTime":843.72,"body":"that it is, driving the organization along "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":836.08,"endTime":843.72,"body":"towards fulfilling its goals and strategy."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":843.72,"endTime":848.2,"body":"And what we've been talking about till now "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":843.72,"endTime":848.2,"body":"is really kind of answering that first question,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":848.2,"endTime":854.08,"body":"what it is and how does it happen? Because it "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":848.2,"endTime":854.08,"body":"really is. It really is just that, is that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":854.08,"endTime":862.72,"body":"you know, it's the m skills that are. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":854.08,"endTime":862.72,"body":"That are now needed are not present in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":862.72,"endTime":870.0,"body":"those who are in the leadership role, who are the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":862.72,"endTime":870.0,"body":"founders, or who are the people that are there,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":870.0,"endTime":876.76,"body":"from the beginning. And it really does. And where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":870.0,"endTime":876.76,"body":"it really kind of hits home is when we're talking  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":876.76,"endTime":881.36,"body":"about scalability. Because one thing that I think "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":876.76,"endTime":881.36,"body":"we should just kind of clarify first is that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":881.36,"endTime":889.04,"body":"not every business, will hit this problem, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":881.36,"endTime":889.04,"body":"because, again, when you're talking about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":889.04,"endTime":892.0,"body":"you saw this a lot when you were working in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":889.04,"endTime":892.0,"body":"economic development. You should tell a lot  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":892.0,"endTime":896.44,"body":"of stories of some cool small businesses. And "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":892.0,"endTime":896.44,"body":"I remember, one story always sticks to my mind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":896.44,"endTime":901.76,"body":"that I brought up a few times, I think, was when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":896.44,"endTime":901.76,"body":"you were working with this, kind of mid sized,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":901.76,"endTime":907.76,"body":"bakery, and a really wonderful, woman who "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":901.76,"endTime":907.76,"body":"was the founder and everything like that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":907.76,"endTime":916.2,"body":"too. And she had no intention of turning her "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":907.76,"endTime":916.2,"body":"medium sized bakery into a global conglomerate.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":916.2,"endTime":922.0,"body":"It was always going to be that lifestyle "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":916.2,"endTime":922.0,"body":"type business where it's where she gets to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":922.0,"endTime":925.48,"body":"spend her time baking. She still has a lot of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":922.0,"endTime":925.48,"body":"the management stuff to do, but she doesn't."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":925.48,"endTime":929.92,"body":"Serve the local community. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":925.48,"endTime":929.92,"body":"that's what she wanted for her business,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":929.92,"endTime":937.12,"body":"was something that would allow her to use her "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":929.92,"endTime":937.12,"body":"technical skill set to serve her community.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":937.12,"endTime":942.92,"body":"And it did that very, very well. She means a "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":937.12,"endTime":942.92,"body":"very profitable business, doing great living."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":942.92,"endTime":944.88,"body":"Because it's almost like."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":944.88,"endTime":949.84,"body":"Whats funny. Was it like, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":944.88,"endTime":949.84,"body":"anyways, I'll try not to rant too much,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":949.84,"endTime":955.16,"body":"but what was funny was because of the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":949.84,"endTime":955.16,"body":"success, she got targeted by all of these,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":955.16,"endTime":961.4,"body":"like, every government program wanted "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":955.16,"endTime":961.4,"body":"to push her to export. Scale, grow,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":961.4,"endTime":967.76,"body":"push. And she's like, no, I'm happy. This is "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":961.4,"endTime":967.76,"body":"what I want from. And, yeah, totally respect  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":967.76,"endTime":973.6,"body":"that. Because she identified her skill set. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":967.76,"endTime":973.6,"body":"She knew what she was good at, she knew what,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":973.6,"endTime":980.0,"body":"more importantly, she knew what she wanted from "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":973.6,"endTime":980.0,"body":"her business, and she knew when she achieved it."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":980.0,"endTime":985.56,"body":"Yeah, I remember you saying she "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":980.0,"endTime":985.56,"body":"had difficulty and she. One of the harder  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":985.56,"endTime":990.44,"body":"things with her was also around the people "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":985.56,"endTime":990.44,"body":"management side of it. She liked people,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":990.44,"endTime":994.92,"body":"but she, she didn't love being a boss. And it was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":990.44,"endTime":994.92,"body":"kind of the part of the job she hated the most."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":994.92,"endTime":997.16,"body":"She liked people. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":994.92,"endTime":997.16,"body":"She hated managing people."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":997.16,"endTime":1001.04,"body":"Yes, exactly. So it's funny because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":997.16,"endTime":1001.04,"body":"she's, you know, I know how to. I know how to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1001.04,"endTime":1006.2,"body":"make muffins and I don't want to have to, but, I "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1001.04,"endTime":1006.2,"body":"want to have the least amount of people management  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1006.2,"endTime":1012.4,"body":"responsibilities as I can. But she. But she didn't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1006.2,"endTime":1012.4,"body":"want to grow and have someone else take it over  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1012.4,"endTime":1018.08,"body":"because she didn't want the company to get that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1012.4,"endTime":1018.08,"body":"big. She made a great living doing what she loved  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1018.08,"endTime":1022.92,"body":"and had a great impact on her community. There "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1018.08,"endTime":1022.92,"body":"was a ceiling on how successful she could be with  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1022.92,"endTime":1028.4,"body":"her structure, and she was cool with that, and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1022.92,"endTime":1028.4,"body":"she wanted to stay on this side of it. And there  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1028.4,"endTime":1034.84,"body":"is nothing wrong with that. And people in those "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1028.4,"endTime":1034.84,"body":"situations, those, And there's probably most. A  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1034.84,"endTime":1041.48,"body":"lot of them are probably in, that situation, and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1034.84,"endTime":1041.48,"body":"there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1041.48,"endTime":1047.0,"body":"when you're not okay with that and you want to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1041.48,"endTime":1047.0,"body":"go past that ceiling and you want to scale.That's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1047.0,"endTime":1054.44,"body":"one of the, I guess, reflection points that you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1047.0,"endTime":1054.44,"body":"need to consider is, am I being impacted by the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1054.44,"endTime":1060.68,"body":"technical founder paradox? Because scalability "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1054.44,"endTime":1060.68,"body":"is what I want to achieve. So then if. If that's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1060.68,"endTime":1064.76,"body":"one of your stated goals, then this is something "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1060.68,"endTime":1064.76,"body":"that you really might want to be thinking about."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1064.76,"endTime":1071.12,"body":"Sometimes we refer to, businesses like "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1064.76,"endTime":1071.12,"body":"that as lifestyle businesses, right? They have  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1071.12,"endTime":1079.16,"body":"created a lifestyle for themselves, and that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1071.12,"endTime":1079.16,"body":"is they've accomplished what they set out to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1079.16,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"accomplish. And that's fantastic. But if you, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1079.16,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"like, you've said, if that's not your intent,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1084.68,"endTime":1091.52,"body":"if that's not your, strategy to just create "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1084.68,"endTime":1091.52,"body":"a lifestyle business for yourself and you're,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1091.52,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"you really want to achieve that scalability, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1091.52,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"then you have to be aware of the problems that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1108.88,"body":"are going to come if you don't properly plan and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1108.88,"body":"augment your skills and abilities by either. Well,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1108.88,"endTime":1111.96,"body":"we'll get into what you can do about "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1108.88,"endTime":1111.96,"body":"it, but you need to figure out a way  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1111.96,"endTime":1117.32,"body":"to make sure that you're not falling "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1111.96,"endTime":1117.32,"body":"into the technical founder paradox."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1117.32,"endTime":1121.56,"body":"So let's jump into. So where do we see "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1117.32,"endTime":1121.56,"body":"it and what does it look like? Well, I mean,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1121.56,"endTime":1126.36,"body":"we talked a little bit about where we see it, but "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1121.56,"endTime":1126.36,"body":"it really is about when, when small businesses  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1126.36,"endTime":1133.24,"body":"are trying to grow and me and medium businesses "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1126.36,"endTime":1133.24,"body":"have hit that wall that they, you know, they hit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.24,"endTime":1139.24,"body":"the ceiling and they don't. And they do want to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.24,"endTime":1139.24,"body":"surpass it. And it's the idea of often is when,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1139.24,"endTime":1146.32,"body":"it's when the founder or founders need you or need "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1139.24,"endTime":1146.32,"body":"to be pulled out of the everyday and need to stop  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1146.32,"endTime":1154.48,"body":"almost like doing the job that they're technical "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1146.32,"endTime":1154.48,"body":"experts in and start doing more of that strategic,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1154.48,"endTime":1161.0,"body":"higher level leadership, and often the skills "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1154.48,"endTime":1161.0,"body":"that they may not have built along the way,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1161.0,"endTime":1166.32,"body":"or they might be very counter to their natural "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1161.0,"endTime":1166.32,"body":"skillset. And that's where we really do see this."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1166.32,"endTime":1173.36,"body":"It's not really an employee count "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1166.32,"endTime":1173.36,"body":"problem. We've, seen this happen with. I can  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1173.36,"endTime":1179.08,"body":"think of a specific example with a group "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1173.36,"endTime":1179.08,"body":"of founders that were, three engineers,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1179.72,"endTime":1187.08,"body":"highly, skilled friends through college, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1179.72,"endTime":1187.08,"body":"decided to start a business together. They,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1187.08,"endTime":1197.56,"body":"hit this wall pretty hard, around 50 employees, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1187.08,"endTime":1197.56,"body":"because they built a fantastic product. but  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1197.56,"endTime":1203.72,"body":"it was also like the first job any of them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1197.56,"endTime":1203.72,"body":"had ever had, college. So none of them had  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1203.72,"endTime":1213.72,"body":"any experience managing people, which "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1203.72,"endTime":1213.72,"body":"caused some problems. Yeah, politely."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1213.72,"endTime":1222.0,"body":"Exactly. So, and, I think that probably, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1213.72,"endTime":1222.0,"body":"yes. So this is the whole thing is that, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1222.0,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"when the work that we do, the success that we've "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1222.0,"endTime":1228.68,"body":"created, we want more of it. And so, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1228.68,"endTime":1233.44,"body":"so again, this is when we realize, okay, so that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1228.68,"endTime":1233.44,"body":"first reflection point is, yes, I do want to scale  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1233.44,"endTime":1239.32,"body":"the business. I do want to see how far we can take "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1233.44,"endTime":1239.32,"body":"this thing. But I think the other reflection point  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1239.32,"endTime":1245.6,"body":"that people might want to be aware of, do I need "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1239.32,"endTime":1245.6,"body":"to be asking myself these hard questions? Is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1245.6,"endTime":1251.16,"body":"if that's your mindset and your goal, that's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1245.6,"endTime":1251.16,"body":"great. But if you're in a situation where you're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1258.24,"body":"still small enough, you haven't built a stability "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1258.24,"body":"around your work, that you're still kind of making  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1258.24,"endTime":1263.64,"body":"decisions, not necessarily strategic decisions, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1258.24,"endTime":1263.64,"body":"about long term success, you're really just trying  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1263.64,"endTime":1269.52,"body":"to keep the lights on day to day. You're, making "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1263.64,"endTime":1269.52,"body":"decisions out of desperation or out of necessity  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1269.52,"endTime":1276.24,"body":"if you're in that situation, and then this is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1269.52,"endTime":1276.24,"body":"something that you may find yourself in the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1276.24,"endTime":1280.56,"body":"found the technical founder paradox, but you can't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1276.24,"endTime":1280.56,"body":"do anything about it. You don't have the ability,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1280.56,"endTime":1285.48,"body":"the infrastructure, the cash flow or anything "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1280.56,"endTime":1285.48,"body":"to kind of take any other approach. Then you,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1285.48,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"as, then you, the founder or the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1285.48,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"founders that you're working with,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1294.04,"body":"have to kind of do it all because there's no "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1294.04,"body":"other option. The real, so where we kind of say,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1294.04,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"when we talk to businesses and we kind of identify "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1294.04,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"that we think we're hitting, we're hitting. The  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1298.76,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"technical founder Paradox is when they do want "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1298.76,"endTime":1304.64,"body":"to scale and they do have the stability and the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1311.12,"body":"infrastructure, the profitability, that they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1304.64,"endTime":1311.12,"body":"can actually do something and actually start to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1311.12,"endTime":1318.52,"body":"make those really smart, strategic decisions, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1311.12,"endTime":1318.52,"body":"to avoid falling into the paradox and avoid  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1320.24,"endTime":1324.4,"body":"their current situation, holding back "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1320.24,"endTime":1324.4,"body":"that big success they're aiming for."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1324.4,"endTime":1334.68,"body":"And it reminds me of kind of another "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1324.4,"endTime":1334.68,"body":"story that or situation that we've seen with a,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1334.68,"endTime":1345.8,"body":"the, founder of a private school. Who had done, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1334.68,"endTime":1345.8,"body":"like, I have so much respect for and empathy for  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1345.8,"endTime":1354.4,"body":"these people because they have built successful "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1345.8,"endTime":1354.4,"body":"businesses, like they had. So this particular one,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1365.44,"body":"they had started two campuses, acquired two, and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1354.4,"endTime":1365.44,"body":"were looking at acquiring or building a third,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1365.44,"endTime":1376.16,"body":"I can't remember, but they, like, they had "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1365.44,"endTime":1376.16,"body":"hundred or so, teacher staff with them,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1376.16,"endTime":1388.64,"body":"you know, serving a great, like a good population "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1376.16,"endTime":1388.64,"body":"of. A lot of things. In a lot of ways, you would  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1388.64,"endTime":1395.32,"body":"consider this to be, quite a successful small "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1388.64,"endTime":1395.32,"body":"business, and they were on along a lot, a number  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1395.32,"endTime":1408.44,"body":"of dimensions. But the problem was the founder, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1395.32,"endTime":1408.44,"body":"while very skilled in the delivery of educational  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1409.16,"endTime":1422.0,"body":"resources, had major tunnel vision, and was unable "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1409.16,"endTime":1422.0,"body":"to really remove those blinders and realize that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1422.0,"endTime":1429.08,"body":"not only do I now need, like, we're now managing "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1422.0,"endTime":1429.08,"body":"four and now looking at a fifth and 6th, like they  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1429.08,"endTime":1437.4,"body":"had plans to continue growing. Managing that many "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1429.08,"endTime":1437.4,"body":"sites require somebody who, who's not just skilled  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1437.4,"endTime":1444.92,"body":"in, as a teacher or as an educator, but as an "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1437.4,"endTime":1444.92,"body":"administrator, as a leader, as a facilitator,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1444.92,"endTime":1452.84,"body":"like facilitating these opportunities and, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1444.92,"endTime":1452.84,"body":"resources for the people that they lead. Yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1452.84,"endTime":1463.64,"body":"sorry, it's just, it's a, we've seen this so many "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1452.84,"endTime":1463.64,"body":"times in so many cool businesses that, really  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1463.64,"endTime":1474.4,"body":"require just a bit of a. Either self awareness "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1463.64,"endTime":1474.4,"body":"or, some identification of where the problems lie."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.4,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"Well, this business in particular, again, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.4,"endTime":1480.24,"body":"kind of met those m two kind of reflection point  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1486.52,"body":"criteria that I mentioned before. They had big "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1480.24,"endTime":1486.52,"body":"scalability, big scaling goals, big growth goals,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1486.52,"endTime":1491.84,"body":"and they actually had positive revenue and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1486.52,"endTime":1491.84,"body":"resources, the cash flow, the reputation they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.36,"endTime":1499.76,"body":"had with all the tools they needed to, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.36,"endTime":1499.76,"body":"to do it. But it was, what they weren't doing was  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1499.76,"endTime":1506.04,"body":"they weren't taking the time to kind of say, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1499.76,"endTime":1506.04,"body":"know, is the skills that got us to where we are,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1511.52,"body":"what we need going forward, or do we need other "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1511.52,"body":"pieces? And I remember this one in particular was  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1511.52,"endTime":1519.2,"body":"really apprehensive that they needed help because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1511.52,"endTime":1519.2,"body":"the idea of, oh, I got this far. So, why can't, Of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1519.2,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"course I could take it further, the way the status "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1519.2,"endTime":1525.08,"body":"quo is working, so why would we ever change? And,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1529.92,"body":"you know, and it's funny if to you listening, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1525.08,"endTime":1529.92,"body":"this might sound like where you work, and I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1529.92,"endTime":1535.84,"body":"apologize if it does. but these are the kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1529.92,"endTime":1535.84,"body":"things where we need to realize this is. This is  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1535.84,"endTime":1542.92,"body":"not an uncommon problem. I mean, we've seen this. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1535.84,"endTime":1542.92,"body":"I mean, I say we again, general, most people have  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1542.92,"endTime":1549.16,"body":"seen this kind of, with, like, restaurants, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1542.92,"endTime":1549.16,"body":"ever have, like, a really great restaurant that's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1549.16,"endTime":1553.32,"body":"like, just killing it and everyone loves it, so "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1549.16,"endTime":1553.32,"body":"they're like, wow, let's try and. Let's try and,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1553.32,"endTime":1558.24,"body":"you know, open, more locations. And then they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1553.32,"endTime":1558.24,"body":"do, and then the business completely collapses.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1558.8,"endTime":1564.88,"body":"Not to say that's only because of the technical "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1558.8,"endTime":1564.88,"body":"founder paradox, but often the. That scalability  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1564.88,"endTime":1569.56,"body":"goal is they're like, well, what's working for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1564.88,"endTime":1569.56,"body":"us while we're small? Well, it'll definitely  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1569.56,"endTime":1575.48,"body":"work for us if we get bigger. And that idea of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1569.56,"endTime":1575.48,"body":"falling into that paradox where the people that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1575.48,"endTime":1580.28,"body":"you know, got you to where you are, are, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1575.48,"endTime":1580.28,"body":"know, may not have all the skills needed or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1580.28,"endTime":1585.44,"body":"all the abilities to get you to the next stage. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1580.28,"endTime":1585.44,"body":"So sometimes it is something where, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1585.44,"endTime":1590.2,"body":"you really do need to realize that a lot of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1585.44,"endTime":1590.2,"body":"businesses that we do see kind of try and hit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1590.2,"endTime":1596.12,"body":"that next, hit that next level end up collapsing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1590.2,"endTime":1596.12,"body":"and losing their stability because they didn't go  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1602.76,"body":"at it with the right strategic. Strategic intent. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1602.76,"body":"So let's try into some warning signs because,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1602.76,"endTime":1607.08,"body":"to make sure that. To help people identify, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1602.76,"endTime":1607.08,"body":"you know, how do I avoid this as we go forward?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1607.08,"endTime":1613.24,"body":"Well, what's really funny is in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1607.08,"endTime":1613.24,"body":"every example we've talked about so far,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1613.24,"endTime":1618.44,"body":"one of the biggest negative effects that was  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1627.72,"body":"or out comes as a result of this, was just "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1627.72,"body":"absolutely terrible. Retention of employees."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1627.72,"endTime":1630.72,"body":"That, is one of the biggest "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1627.72,"endTime":1630.72,"body":"warning signs. You're right."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1631.68,"endTime":1638.96,"body":"Obviously, we see this very, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1631.68,"endTime":1638.96,"body":"very frequently because this is the knee,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1638.96,"endTime":1648.04,"body":"one of the niches that we, work in. Yeah, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1638.96,"endTime":1648.04,"body":"right. Like with the private school example,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1658.24,"body":"They had m huge aspirational goals, but couldn't "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1649.6,"endTime":1658.24,"body":"hang on to staff and had trouble recruiting  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1658.24,"endTime":1668.52,"body":"people. When they acquired new locations, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1658.24,"endTime":1668.52,"body":"they would bleed employees. These types of  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1668.52,"endTime":1678.12,"body":"retention problems can be indicative of many very, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1668.52,"endTime":1678.12,"body":"damaging issues, including this technical founder  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1678.88,"endTime":1687.16,"body":"paradox. it was the same with, the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1678.88,"endTime":1687.16,"body":"engineering, ah, founders. you know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1687.16,"endTime":1695.48,"body":"they had grown the business. they paid well, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1687.16,"endTime":1695.48,"body":"especially for, like, they were very competitive,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1695.48,"endTime":1703.96,"body":"within their industry and region. but they had "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1695.48,"endTime":1703.96,"body":"a lot of trouble hanging on to their. Actually,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1703.96,"endTime":1707.28,"body":"their. Their field staff were okay because "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1703.96,"endTime":1707.28,"body":"they were out of the office. But anybody  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1707.28,"endTime":1712.28,"body":"who was kind of required to have a lot of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1707.28,"endTime":1712.28,"body":"regular interactions with the founders,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1712.28,"endTime":1719.6,"body":"did not stay because they didn't have those skills "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1712.28,"endTime":1719.6,"body":"to be able to manage people effectively. And that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1719.6,"endTime":1725.8,"body":"was the blind. The tunnel vision. They had the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1719.6,"endTime":1725.8,"body":"tunnel vision on product rather than people."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1725.8,"endTime":1731.44,"body":"yeah, absolutely. So, again, retention, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1725.8,"endTime":1731.44,"body":"something that, obviously, because the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1731.44,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"work that we do is one that we see the most, but "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1731.44,"endTime":1737.4,"body":"it's also. It's also a significant red flag that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1743.08,"body":"And again, this was part of the talk. The keynote "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1743.08,"body":"that I gave was. Was why I brought up there, too.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.08,"endTime":1747.76,"body":"But it's also beyond. But beyond the retention "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.08,"endTime":1747.76,"body":"issues is. It's also. We also see this a lot  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1747.76,"endTime":1754.6,"body":"with stagnating business development. Is that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1747.76,"endTime":1754.6,"body":"you know, when you're not able to, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1754.6,"endTime":1760.16,"body":"when you're seeing the difficult times actually, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1754.6,"endTime":1760.16,"body":"you know, getting, you know, fulfilling your,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1760.16,"endTime":1766.72,"body":"your growth commitments or, you know, or people "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1760.16,"endTime":1766.72,"body":"are. You're missing deadlines and timelines often,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1766.72,"endTime":1770.84,"body":"to be honest, going back to retention because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1766.72,"endTime":1770.84,"body":"you don't have the employee base to fill that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1770.84,"endTime":1776.76,"body":"but you kind of feel like you cross a threshold, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1770.84,"endTime":1776.76,"body":"you're like, well, why can't. We were able to fill  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1776.76,"endTime":1782.6,"body":"it before? Why can't we fill this now? Even "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1776.76,"endTime":1782.6,"body":"though it's more so that stagnating business  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1782.6,"endTime":1788.52,"body":"development can be that the growth side of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1782.6,"endTime":1788.52,"body":"it is stagnating because you're just not able  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1788.52,"endTime":1795.72,"body":"to meet your responsibilities, because you just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1788.52,"endTime":1795.72,"body":"don't have what's needed to hit that next level."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1795.72,"endTime":1802.16,"body":"Yeah, that's a good point. I think "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1795.72,"endTime":1802.16,"body":"the. What's related to that as well is if  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1802.16,"endTime":1809.04,"body":"there is one division or department that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1802.16,"endTime":1809.04,"body":"seems to be just carrying the whole company,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1811.04,"endTime":1818.04,"body":"that could be another warning sign. So if you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1811.04,"endTime":1818.04,"body":"are, Well, I'll use the engineering example again,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1818.04,"endTime":1823.32,"body":"very focused on the technical specs. And, I "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1818.04,"endTime":1823.32,"body":"mean, product should lead. product needs to be  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1823.32,"endTime":1830.28,"body":"important. But if every other part of the business "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1823.32,"endTime":1830.28,"body":"seems to be lagging behind in productivity,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1830.28,"endTime":1839.08,"body":"in performance, and outcomes. And it just, it's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1830.28,"endTime":1839.08,"body":"very, still very focused on just that technical,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1839.08,"endTime":1846.36,"body":"skill that the founders have. There's a good "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1839.08,"endTime":1846.36,"body":"chance you are going to hit that wall pretty soon."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1846.36,"endTime":1850.4,"body":"Actually that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1846.36,"endTime":1850.4,"body":"lopsided growth aspect of it."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1850.4,"endTime":1851.28,"body":"Lopsided, yeah."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1851.28,"endTime":1856.64,"body":"It is a really, is actually a really "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1851.28,"endTime":1856.64,"body":"great sign too, because like, so for example,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1856.64,"endTime":1862.4,"body":"if even the product side, if you're, if "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1856.64,"endTime":1862.4,"body":"you're like, if your sales are excellent,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1862.4,"endTime":1866.88,"body":"but your expenses are super high "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1862.4,"endTime":1866.88,"body":"because your support, because your  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1866.88,"endTime":1871.68,"body":"procurement and your supply is, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1866.88,"endTime":1871.68,"body":"you really haven't done reactive because."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1871.68,"endTime":1877.08,"body":"You don't have somebody in that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1871.68,"endTime":1877.08,"body":"role to be able to dedicate that skill set."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1877.68,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"Or if you're, you provide a great "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1877.68,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"product and you provide a great service,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1882.0,"endTime":1886.24,"body":"but no one knows about you, you're like the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1882.0,"endTime":1886.24,"body":"best kept secret in town, then the idea,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1886.24,"endTime":1891.2,"body":"maybe your sales and marketing, you know, your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1886.24,"endTime":1891.2,"body":"marketing and advertising is something that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1891.2,"endTime":1896.28,"body":"you know, might be, you know, is a skill set "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1891.2,"endTime":1896.28,"body":"that, that's lacking. And what's great about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1896.28,"endTime":1901.4,"body":"you know, about being able to have kind of some "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1896.28,"endTime":1901.4,"body":"clear warning signs is, again, they're just that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1901.4,"endTime":1904.36,"body":"they're roughly, if you're, you know, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1901.4,"endTime":1904.36,"body":"have this one problem, you definitely have  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1904.36,"endTime":1908.56,"body":"this technical founder paradox, but these are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1904.36,"endTime":1908.56,"body":"the kind of those reflection point questions,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1914.44,"body":"you know, are we seeing issues with retention? Do "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1908.56,"endTime":1914.44,"body":"we have lopsided growth? Is our stagnation of our  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1914.44,"endTime":1923.48,"body":"business development happening? Are we trying to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1914.44,"endTime":1923.48,"body":"scale? And do we have, this ability to actually  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1923.48,"endTime":1929.64,"body":"start to make the effective decisions? Because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1923.48,"endTime":1929.64,"body":"we have the stability and we have that cash flow  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1929.64,"endTime":1935.12,"body":"and infrastructure to allow us to do it. If "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1929.64,"endTime":1935.12,"body":"all this sounds familiar and comes to mind,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1935.12,"endTime":1941.44,"body":"this is a really important point for a business. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1935.12,"endTime":1941.44,"body":"Whether you're in the business as an employee or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1946.16,"body":"whether you are one of the, one of the founders "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1946.16,"body":"to really kind of say, you know, are we standing  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1953.3,"body":"in our own way? So I think, it would be wise "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1953.3,"body":"for us to move on to what can we do about it."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1953.3,"endTime":1962.12,"body":"Yeah. So obviously the crux "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1953.3,"endTime":1962.12,"body":"of the problem is a mismatch in skills,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1962.12,"endTime":1972.28,"body":"right? So it's a technical founder with blinders "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1962.12,"endTime":1972.28,"body":"who, isn't aware of the gaps, or it's, yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1972.28,"endTime":1979.6,"body":"it's that skill mismatch. So there's a few ways "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1972.28,"endTime":1979.6,"body":"that you can address that. If you want to continue  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1979.6,"endTime":1985.56,"body":"being involved in everything, then you are "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1979.6,"endTime":1985.56,"body":"going to need to upskill your own knowledge. Ah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1985.56,"endTime":1996.08,"body":"if you are a solo, ah, founder or even as a team, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1985.56,"endTime":1996.08,"body":"then your team is going to, you need to, identify  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1996.08,"endTime":2001.88,"body":"and build some skills that are complementary to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1996.08,"endTime":2001.88,"body":"the technical expertise that you already have  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2001.88,"endTime":2008.72,"body":"developed. I think I used the language earlier of, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2001.88,"endTime":2008.72,"body":"it's the difference between a depth of knowledge  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2008.72,"endTime":2015.36,"body":"versus a breadth of knowledge. And I like that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2008.72,"endTime":2015.36,"body":"because with the technical founder paradox,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2015.36,"endTime":2022.16,"body":"that depth of knowledge was so important "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2015.36,"endTime":2022.16,"body":"early on, but now you need to take a step  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2022.16,"endTime":2029.36,"body":"back and look at the breadth of skills that are "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2022.16,"endTime":2029.36,"body":"required in order to be successful. Upskilling  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2029.36,"endTime":2034.24,"body":"is absolutely an option there and there are "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2029.36,"endTime":2034.24,"body":"lots of ways that you can accomplish that."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2034.24,"endTime":2037.72,"body":"Well, I mean, and think about "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2034.24,"endTime":2037.72,"body":"it too. It's like, you know, the,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2038.6,"endTime":2044.76,"body":"what, what the founders have to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2038.6,"endTime":2044.76,"body":"realize is you're not, you're not like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2044.76,"endTime":2050.04,"body":"you're not a teacher anymore, you're not an "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2044.76,"endTime":2050.04,"body":"engineer anymore. Right. You know, you're,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2050.04,"endTime":2056.76,"body":"yes, you still have the license and you identify "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2050.04,"endTime":2056.76,"body":"as that, but your everyday is not that you're."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2056.76,"endTime":2061.96,"body":"A CEO or a COO or a CMO or a CHRO."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2061.96,"endTime":2069.28,"body":"You guess you have a new job and, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2061.96,"endTime":2069.28,"body":"know, so what is the skills that you would want,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.28,"endTime":2074.36,"body":"that you would need to hire in that job? That's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.28,"endTime":2074.36,"body":"what you need to be now. And it's something that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2074.36,"endTime":2079.56,"body":"you know, sometimes it just takes that point of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2074.36,"endTime":2079.56,"body":"going, okay, I haven't upskilled myself. I haven't  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2079.56,"endTime":2084.6,"body":"had time for one. But now, again, if we're in a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2079.56,"endTime":2084.6,"body":"situation where we want to grow, we want to grow  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2084.6,"endTime":2090.2,"body":"strategically. We have the structure to allow "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2084.6,"endTime":2090.2,"body":"me, or me and the leadership team or whatever  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2090.2,"endTime":2097.0,"body":"to develop these new essential skills to level "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2090.2,"endTime":2097.0,"body":"up and hit that and hit that, our next goals,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2097.0,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"then we have to do that. Because, you know, if "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2097.0,"endTime":2103.84,"body":"we just, if we're too busy to do it, then we're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2103.84,"endTime":2107.92,"body":"just like, okay, we're just hitting the snooze "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2103.84,"endTime":2107.92,"body":"button on achieving our goals. And if that's,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2107.92,"endTime":2111.96,"body":"that's best reality of it, either you take, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2107.92,"endTime":2111.96,"body":"carve out the time and the resources to do it,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2111.96,"endTime":2117.2,"body":"or you're just going to hit the snooze button "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2111.96,"endTime":2117.2,"body":"on your sustainable growth. And I can't always  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2117.2,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"say it's that the success will wait for you. If "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2117.2,"endTime":2122.98,"body":"you wait too long, you might miss your window."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2122.98,"endTime":2127.08,"body":"So much about timing is "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2122.98,"endTime":2127.08,"body":"critically important in business.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2128.04,"endTime":2134.88,"body":"You had a comment in a previous episode when we "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2128.04,"endTime":2134.88,"body":"talked about, where we talked about technical  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2134.88,"endTime":2143.08,"body":"founder paradox that I thought was really good. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2134.88,"endTime":2143.08,"body":"and I'm going to try to, it was essentially that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2143.88,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"along the lines of what you just said, you are "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2143.88,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"no longer qualified for the job that you have.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2154.6,"endTime":2163.32,"body":"As an engineer, creating, doing the engineering "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2154.6,"endTime":2163.32,"body":"and product development. Yes. As the CEO who is  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2163.32,"endTime":2169.8,"body":"now responsible for all aspects of the business, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2163.32,"endTime":2169.8,"body":"you may no longer be qualified for the role that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2169.8,"endTime":2177.68,"body":"you are actually performing, which is, again, it "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2169.8,"endTime":2177.68,"body":"happens very organically and I don't want this to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2177.68,"endTime":2186.92,"body":"be a criticism because it really isn't. There's, I "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2177.68,"endTime":2186.92,"body":"have a tremendous amount of respect for founders,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2186.92,"endTime":2193.88,"body":"who are able to grow and build sustainable, ah. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2186.92,"endTime":2193.88,"body":"And scalable business. It is not flippin easy."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2193.88,"endTime":2205.04,"body":"Absolutely. And it's just more of that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2193.88,"endTime":2205.04,"body":"it's real talk. You are maybe unqualified for the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2205.04,"endTime":2209.96,"body":"realities of the role. So what do you do about "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2205.04,"endTime":2209.96,"body":"that? Well then if you, if you want to maintain  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2209.96,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"that job, then become qualified. I mean it's, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2209.96,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"you know, real talk. That's, that's truth of it."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.24,"body":"Now, the good news is "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.24,"body":"that your boss will probably cut  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2218.24,"endTime":2222.24,"body":"you a little bit of leeway while "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2218.24,"endTime":2222.24,"body":"you're learning the new skills."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2222.24,"endTime":2226.84,"body":"So, yeah, so what we do about it, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2222.24,"endTime":2226.84,"body":"step one, if you want to stay in the job,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2226.84,"endTime":2237.88,"body":"it's up skill. Another option. So option two is to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2226.84,"endTime":2237.88,"body":"build the team you need to achieve those goals. If  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2237.88,"endTime":2244.96,"body":"you don't have the capacity, the interest or, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2237.88,"endTime":2244.96,"body":"you know, the time in order to do that, then  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2244.96,"endTime":2253.84,"body":"you're going to need to get the, get those skill "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2244.96,"endTime":2253.84,"body":"sets to you. So this might look like you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2253.84,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"revising or adding on to your leadership team. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2253.84,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"Maybe your leadership team needs to be beyond  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2264.56,"body":"the people that have been around the longest "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2264.56,"body":"time, you know, and maybe it needs to be about  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2264.56,"endTime":2268.92,"body":"bringing the people in that are going to provide "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2264.56,"endTime":2268.92,"body":"the right, the right insights, the right skill  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2268.92,"endTime":2272.24,"body":"sets. Right. So we talked, we talked about this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2268.92,"endTime":2272.24,"body":"with like strength based teams. We did an episode,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2272.24,"endTime":2280.28,"body":"we talked about fit and we outlined kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2272.24,"endTime":2280.28,"body":"different ideas about how the general specialists  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2280.28,"endTime":2285.88,"body":"and everything else like that too. But I mean, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2280.28,"endTime":2285.88,"body":"you know, if, if you're people dependent on your  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2285.88,"endTime":2293.52,"body":"growth and scalability, then hiring people, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2285.88,"endTime":2293.52,"body":"experts to help you do that, if you're about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2293.52,"endTime":2302.52,"body":"you know, if you're trying to maintain the most "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2293.52,"endTime":2302.52,"body":"effective, you know, cost, for your supply in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2302.52,"endTime":2307.44,"body":"order to build your products and bringing in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2302.52,"endTime":2307.44,"body":"experts in procurement and, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2307.44,"endTime":2311.44,"body":"So you might chain logistics and. So many  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2311.44,"endTime":2317.72,"body":"skills that can be helpful. You need to take "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2311.44,"endTime":2317.72,"body":"a strategic approach to how you acquire them."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2317.72,"endTime":2320.76,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it might be weird for you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2317.72,"endTime":2320.76,"body":"to be like we're going to bring a bunch of new  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2320.76,"endTime":2325.6,"body":"strangers into this company that we built, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2320.76,"endTime":2325.6,"body":"you know, 20 years ago or ten years ago,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2325.6,"endTime":2330.16,"body":"whatever it is, and you know, instead of promoting "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2325.6,"endTime":2330.16,"body":"within, but if that skill that doesn't exist,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2330.16,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"if you want to hit that next level you kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2330.16,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"of need to go to where the skills are to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2334.44,"endTime":2338.04,"body":"bring them to you. You might, and you might "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2334.44,"endTime":2338.04,"body":"probably need to pay for it, but the thing."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2338.04,"endTime":2340.16,"body":"Too, is going to have to pay for it."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2340.16,"endTime":2344.04,"body":"Absolutely. But the thing too is that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2340.16,"endTime":2344.04,"body":"this is one of the benefits of kind of the rise  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2344.04,"endTime":2350.8,"body":"of fractional work. You may not need to jump "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2344.04,"endTime":2350.8,"body":"in and hire a bunch of new C suite directors  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2352.4,"endTime":2357.28,"body":"with crazy salaries. You might have a good "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2352.4,"endTime":2357.28,"body":"cash flow, maybe not that good of cash flow,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2357.28,"endTime":2362.56,"body":"but the idea of having fractional help kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2357.28,"endTime":2362.56,"body":"command in that more advisory role, in that more  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2362.56,"endTime":2367.56,"body":"upskilling role, build capacity internally. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2362.56,"endTime":2367.56,"body":"Whether your fractional person becomes your  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2367.56,"endTime":2373.6,"body":"CMO or they help you build a marketing team "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2367.56,"endTime":2373.6,"body":"or whatever it is, you know, it's about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2373.6,"endTime":2377.24,"body":"you know, bringing in the skills that are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2373.6,"endTime":2377.24,"body":"going to allow you to have that strength  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2377.24,"endTime":2381.08,"body":"based approach. You can do more of what you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2377.24,"endTime":2381.08,"body":"good at and you have someone else doing more of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2381.08,"endTime":2386.36,"body":"what they're good at and that, and then you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2381.08,"endTime":2386.36,"body":"have all you need to hit that next level."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2386.36,"endTime":2397.72,"body":"And I like that comment, around using "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2386.36,"endTime":2397.72,"body":"them to build capacity internally. I absolutely  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2397.72,"endTime":2405.84,"body":"love it when companies have a focus on "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2397.72,"endTime":2405.84,"body":"internal growth, on developing their people,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2406.52,"endTime":2415.32,"body":"that is such a great mentality to have around, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2406.52,"endTime":2415.32,"body":"skill development, people development, and can  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2415.32,"endTime":2421.16,"body":"be an incredibly powerful retention tool. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2415.32,"endTime":2421.16,"body":"So if you don't have the skills right away,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2421.16,"endTime":2427.32,"body":"a stopgap, fractional while you're "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2421.16,"endTime":2427.32,"body":"developing your internal, capabilities  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2427.96,"endTime":2431.48,"body":"couldn't be a really "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2427.96,"endTime":2431.48,"body":"interesting, solution to that."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2431.48,"endTime":2435.96,"body":"Absolutely. And especially if your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2431.48,"endTime":2435.96,"body":"goal is, okay, we can only afford fractional,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2435.96,"endTime":2441.2,"body":"you know, for the next four years, but "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2435.96,"endTime":2441.2,"body":"if they help you hit that next level,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2441.2,"endTime":2444.24,"body":"then it's a matter of, okay, now we can "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2441.2,"endTime":2444.24,"body":"look at permanent people. Whether it's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2444.24,"endTime":2447.88,"body":"upscaling people that have been working under "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2444.24,"endTime":2447.88,"body":"these fractionals for the past four years,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2447.88,"endTime":2451.16,"body":"or whether it's bringing them on full time or "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2447.88,"endTime":2451.16,"body":"whatever it is, your options are available to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2451.16,"endTime":2456.28,"body":"you because you, you successfully hit "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2451.16,"endTime":2456.28,"body":"the next level with strategic intent."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2456.28,"endTime":2467.96,"body":"The last one that I want to talk about "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2456.28,"endTime":2467.96,"body":"is, is going to sound kind of weird. But honestly,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2467.96,"endTime":2476.16,"body":"there's also the opportunity. If you are a highly "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2467.96,"endTime":2476.16,"body":"skilled technical founder and that's what you love  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2476.16,"endTime":2485.64,"body":"to do, there's nothing wrong with stepping back "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2476.16,"endTime":2485.64,"body":"from the responsibility of doing everything and  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2485.64,"endTime":2494.32,"body":"stepping into a niche that you really enjoy. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2485.64,"endTime":2494.32,"body":"I remember working with what, ah, stands out for  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2494.32,"endTime":2500.6,"body":"me was a company that we were working with that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2494.32,"endTime":2500.6,"body":"is kind, of a key component in the supply chain  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2500.6,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"for mining, industry, providing, equipment, and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2500.6,"endTime":2508.4,"body":"safety, safety equipment, a number of different  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2508.4,"endTime":2517.72,"body":"widgets that are required whole gambit of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2508.4,"endTime":2517.72,"body":"things. and the, the owner was such an  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2517.72,"endTime":2531.16,"body":"amazing human being. Anyways, they were "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2517.72,"endTime":2531.16,"body":"hitting this same problem of they were spending  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2531.16,"endTime":2539.16,"body":"all of their time and energy having to manage the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2531.16,"endTime":2539.16,"body":"day to day operations of the business and they  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2539.16,"endTime":2546.6,"body":"honestly hated that. What they loved to do was to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2539.16,"endTime":2546.6,"body":"build the relationships, to be out, networking,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2546.6,"endTime":2555.6,"body":"to find new clients, to be more in that sales "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2546.6,"endTime":2555.6,"body":"leadership role. And what was so great about  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2555.6,"endTime":2563.56,"body":"that project was actually being able to work "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2555.6,"endTime":2563.56,"body":"with the founder, ah, the owner, to put this,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2563.56,"endTime":2572.56,"body":"the solutions in place, to identifying somebody "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2563.56,"endTime":2572.56,"body":"internally that can take over guiding them,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2573.4,"endTime":2581.64,"body":"offloading those responsibilities, from the owner "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2573.4,"endTime":2581.64,"body":"to the new operations manager who could run,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2581.64,"endTime":2587.16,"body":"all of the day to day responsibilities. They were "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2581.64,"endTime":2587.16,"body":"ecstatic because they got a promotion and more  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2587.16,"endTime":2595.44,"body":"money. And ultimately the owner was far happier "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2587.16,"endTime":2595.44,"body":"because he was able to step back from having to do  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2595.44,"endTime":2600.88,"body":"everything and step into what he really loved to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2595.44,"endTime":2600.88,"body":"do, which was meeting with, which was talking. I  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2600.88,"endTime":2607.12,"body":"mean the guy could talk forever. but he was very, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2600.88,"endTime":2607.12,"body":"he was very charismatic, he was very personable.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2607.68,"endTime":2613.84,"body":"And you like the, the networking, the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2607.68,"endTime":2613.84,"body":"relationship management side was such  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2613.84,"endTime":2620.16,"body":"a natural gifting for him. Yeah. And it "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2613.84,"endTime":2620.16,"body":"was so cool to see that develop well."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2620.16,"endTime":2629.6,"body":"And that's just it is that there are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2620.16,"endTime":2629.6,"body":"a lot of owner founders that hate their job.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2629.6,"endTime":2638.16,"body":"And it's because what got them into the work, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2629.6,"endTime":2638.16,"body":"because they help, they had to hold on to for,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2638.16,"endTime":2644.44,"body":"whether it was a self imposed or for whatever "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2638.16,"endTime":2644.44,"body":"reason they're in, they're doing the job, not the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2644.44,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"job that got them into the work or that they, that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2644.44,"endTime":2649.12,"body":"they built for themselves. They have a job where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2655.64,"body":"they're all the stuff that they like to do is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2649.12,"endTime":2655.64,"body":"they had to give it to someone else. It's again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2655.64,"endTime":2658.52,"body":"part of it is like, well, I'm the owner, I should "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2655.64,"endTime":2658.52,"body":"be the CEO or should be the president. Like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2658.52,"endTime":2662.8,"body":"I mean, like, you know, I'm not going to be "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2658.52,"endTime":2662.8,"body":"an employee in my own company. Like I, that's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2662.8,"endTime":2668.84,"body":"not why I did this. But for some people they're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2662.8,"endTime":2668.84,"body":"like, well, the different approaches. Well, why,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2668.84,"endTime":2674.24,"body":"why am I, as the owner, the most miserable person "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2668.84,"endTime":2674.24,"body":"in the company? Why, you know, why can't I worked."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2674.24,"endTime":2676.6,"body":"For somebody else for 20 "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2674.24,"endTime":2676.6,"body":"years and hated every minute of it,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2676.6,"endTime":2679.52,"body":"so I started my own business "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2676.6,"endTime":2679.52,"body":"and hate every minute of it."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2679.52,"endTime":2685.32,"body":"Yeah, but like if the stuff that you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2679.52,"endTime":2685.32,"body":"like to do or that you're good at or that is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2685.32,"endTime":2692.2,"body":"or really, you know, is relying on you, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2685.32,"endTime":2692.2,"body":"then, then stepping away from the stuff  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2692.2,"endTime":2697.2,"body":"that is not and stepping into your niche "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2692.2,"endTime":2697.2,"body":"to allow for you to do what you're good at,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2697.2,"endTime":2702.32,"body":"that you enjoy doing, but then having people "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2697.2,"endTime":2702.32,"body":"that maybe work around you or sometimes even  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2702.32,"endTime":2707.64,"body":"above you depend on the structure, but to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2702.32,"endTime":2707.64,"body":"allow you to be very successful, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2707.64,"endTime":2711.66,"body":"and very, you know, very wealthy doing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2707.64,"endTime":2711.66,"body":"a job that you would love doing. Right."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2711.66,"endTime":2714.7,"body":"I mean, it's not, I mean, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2711.66,"endTime":2714.7,"body":"your ownership doesn't change."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2714.7,"endTime":2720.8,"body":"Yeah, exactly. Yeah. like we've seen "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2714.7,"endTime":2720.8,"body":"kind of some of this in, in hospitality and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2720.8,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"restaurants too, a bit, you know, where like the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2720.8,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"founder is, is the chef and they're, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2732.96,"body":"and as they grow, they never really leave "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2732.96,"body":"the kitchen. They're still in the kitchen.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2732.96,"endTime":2736.44,"body":"They just bring on other people to be "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2732.96,"endTime":2736.44,"body":"the general manager and this, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2736.44,"endTime":2742.88,"body":"they're still the owner. They still, they still "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2736.44,"endTime":2742.88,"body":"call a lot of the strategic shots, but they're.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2742.88,"endTime":2747.28,"body":"But the general manager, they kind of still, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2742.88,"endTime":2747.28,"body":"they somewhat report to, but at the same time,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2747.28,"endTime":2751.8,"body":"like, you know, it's, it can be a bit of a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2747.28,"endTime":2751.8,"body":"fine tuning act to try and get the right kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2751.8,"endTime":2757.32,"body":"of relationship and the right flow going. But I "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2751.8,"endTime":2757.32,"body":"mean, you know, when you have someone that is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2757.32,"endTime":2764.64,"body":"is vital towards one component, then let them do "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2757.32,"endTime":2764.64,"body":"that and let other people who have the skills,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2764.64,"endTime":2769.24,"body":"background, education, whatever it might be, to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2764.64,"endTime":2769.24,"body":"do all, everything else that you don't have to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2769.24,"endTime":2774.96,"body":"be as the owner, be the CEO or be the president, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2769.24,"endTime":2774.96,"body":"you know, that it is an option to step back and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2774.96,"endTime":2780.16,"body":"find your niche. It's not a common one. We don't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2774.96,"endTime":2780.16,"body":"see it a lot, but one at least worth considering."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2780.16,"endTime":2789.72,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of what we've "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2780.16,"endTime":2789.72,"body":"talked about can be summed up by saying that there  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2789.72,"endTime":2798.36,"body":"are a lot of responsibilities and a lot. There's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2789.72,"endTime":2798.36,"body":"a large breadth of knowledge that's required to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2798.36,"endTime":2807.56,"body":"scale a company. And you don't have to do it all "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2798.36,"endTime":2807.56,"body":"yourself. There are solutions to it. And if you  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2807.56,"endTime":2816.56,"body":"continue to operate with tunnel vision, then you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2807.56,"endTime":2816.56,"body":"are going to hit a wall. You will be blindsided  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2816.56,"endTime":2823.44,"body":"by the things that come, from out of left or "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2816.56,"endTime":2823.44,"body":"right field because you're just moving forward."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2823.44,"endTime":2829.92,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I think I'll "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2823.44,"endTime":2829.92,"body":"just do a very quick summary. But, yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2829.92,"endTime":2837.64,"body":"so the question was, what is the technical founder "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2829.92,"endTime":2837.64,"body":"paradox? Well, ultimately it is for, businesses  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2837.64,"endTime":2845.84,"body":"that are trying to scale, that have, that are in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2837.64,"endTime":2845.84,"body":"a situation where the founders, the owners that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2845.84,"endTime":2852.16,"body":"got them to this point being a successful, viable "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2845.84,"endTime":2852.16,"body":"company, their skill sets that got them to where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2852.16,"endTime":2857.72,"body":"they are might be the skill sets that are holding "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2852.16,"endTime":2857.72,"body":"back their ability to hit the next level. Where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2857.72,"endTime":2865.12,"body":"we see this, we see this in any business that has "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2857.72,"endTime":2865.12,"body":"kind of that, the technical expertise of often the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2865.12,"endTime":2874.28,"body":"product or service to kind of deliver, or that has "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2865.12,"endTime":2874.28,"body":"been delivered, and the lack of skills in business  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2874.28,"endTime":2878.88,"body":"operations, you know, people management or other "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2874.28,"endTime":2878.88,"body":"aspects that are essential towards the business of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2878.88,"endTime":2884.6,"body":"scalability. So again, there's two good reflection "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2878.88,"endTime":2884.6,"body":"points that people need to realize. You know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2884.6,"endTime":2891.56,"body":"is this where we are at? And one of them is, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2884.6,"endTime":2891.56,"body":"know, are you moving away from being a lifestyle  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2891.56,"endTime":2894.88,"body":"business where you're just trying to, where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2891.56,"endTime":2894.88,"body":"you're happy with that ceiling and you. And,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2894.88,"endTime":2899.04,"body":"you want to, and you're successful as you want to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2894.88,"endTime":2899.04,"body":"be, trying to move into a scalable business where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2899.04,"endTime":2904.36,"body":"the sky's the limit? And are you in a situation "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2899.04,"endTime":2904.36,"body":"where you're not making decisions of desperation  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2904.36,"endTime":2909.76,"body":"or necessity, where you actually can make the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2904.36,"endTime":2909.76,"body":"strategic, smart, long term decisions because you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2909.76,"endTime":2915.72,"body":"have the stability, cash flow, infrastructure or "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2909.76,"endTime":2915.72,"body":"whatever, some warning signs, or if you're falling  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2915.72,"endTime":2921.44,"body":"into the technical founder paradox is if retention "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2915.72,"endTime":2921.44,"body":"of core operational, positions is a challenge,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2921.44,"endTime":2927.4,"body":"holding on to good people, if you're stagnating "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2921.44,"endTime":2927.4,"body":"your business development because you're just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2927.4,"endTime":2933.64,"body":"lacking m and missing in the, what's needed for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2927.4,"endTime":2933.64,"body":"growth, or if you have lopsided growth where the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2933.64,"endTime":2938.84,"body":"area that the founder has significant expertise "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2933.64,"endTime":2938.84,"body":"in is doing much better than other departments,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2938.84,"endTime":2944.76,"body":"and you're not able to kind of, you know, grow "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2938.84,"endTime":2944.76,"body":"effectively, sustainably, you know, across the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2944.76,"endTime":2950.52,"body":"board. So what can we do about it? Well, there's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2944.76,"endTime":2950.52,"body":"three options. We can either upskill ourselves  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2950.52,"endTime":2956.0,"body":"as the founders to be able to develop the skills "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2950.52,"endTime":2956.0,"body":"and have a larger, instead of having that depth  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2956.0,"endTime":2960.2,"body":"of knowledge, having the breadth of knowledge, to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2956.0,"endTime":2960.2,"body":"be able to kind of, you know, be able to do all  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2960.2,"endTime":2965.92,"body":"aspects of our work, we can actually bring in the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2960.2,"endTime":2965.92,"body":"people and build a strength based team to have the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2965.92,"endTime":2973.6,"body":"expertise around us that allows us to be able "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2965.92,"endTime":2973.6,"body":"to have these essential required capabilities,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2973.6,"endTime":2979.32,"body":"to perform the functions of a scaling business, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2973.6,"endTime":2979.32,"body":"or we can step back and find our niche and just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2979.32,"endTime":2985.36,"body":"do the parts that we really enjoy with our "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2979.32,"endTime":2985.36,"body":"job and other people who have the skills to,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2985.36,"endTime":2989.76,"body":"be able to deliver higher, the higher level growth "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2985.36,"endTime":2989.76,"body":"and scalability, let them worry about that and let  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2989.76,"endTime":2995.84,"body":"you, as a founder, actually have a job in your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2989.76,"endTime":2995.84,"body":"own business that you actually enjoy. All right,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2995.84,"endTime":2999.48,"body":"that about does it for us. For a full "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2995.84,"endTime":2999.48,"body":"archive of the podcast and access to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2999.48,"endTime":3006.36,"body":"the video version hosted on our YouTube channel, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2999.48,"endTime":3006.36,"body":"visit www.roman3.ca/podcast thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3006.36,"endTime":3009.72,"body":"For more information on "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3006.36,"endTime":3009.72,"body":"topics like these, don't forget to  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3009.72,"endTime":3015.56,"body":"visit us at www.roman3.ca. Side effects of "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3009.72,"endTime":3015.56,"body":"this podcast may include improved retention,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3015.56,"endTime":3019.88,"body":"high productivity, increased market share, "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3015.56,"endTime":3019.88,"body":"employees breaking out in spontaneous dance,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3019.88,"endTime":3026.52,"body":"dry mouth, aversion to the sound of James’ "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":3019.88,"endTime":3026.52,"body":"voice, desire to find a better podcast…"}]}