{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Breaking down everyday workplace "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"not just the obvious symptom. "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"Our hosts, James and Coby."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":10.16,"endTime":11.98,"body":"Did we lose a patient?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":11.98,"endTime":14.88,"body":"No, that's just my lunch."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.88,"endTime":23.08,"body":"Hey, thanks for joining us. I'm "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.88,"endTime":23.08,"body":"Coby, he's James. And before we get started,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":23.08,"endTime":29.04,"body":"I want to welcome everyone to the first episode of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":23.08,"endTime":29.04,"body":"the third season of diagnosing the workplace. Can  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":29.04,"endTime":33.38,"body":"you believe we've been doing this for. We've had "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":29.04,"endTime":33.38,"body":"two seasons under our belt. It's pretty awesome."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":33.38,"endTime":35.84,"body":"I'm surprised people "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":33.38,"endTime":35.84,"body":"are still listening to us,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":35.84,"endTime":43.8,"body":"honestly. Or that they started listening to us, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":35.84,"endTime":43.8,"body":"but, it's a little humbling and a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":43.8,"endTime":51.0,"body":"Absolutely. And, I also wanted to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":43.8,"endTime":51.0,"body":"just, put a shout out about our, upcoming,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":51.0,"endTime":55.6,"body":"newsletters. So we're collecting email addresses, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":51.0,"endTime":55.6,"body":"there's a link in the show notes. We, forgot to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":55.6,"endTime":60.24,"body":"mention that on the last episode of season "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":55.6,"endTime":60.24,"body":"two, which we really should have, just remind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":60.24,"endTime":65.92,"body":"people to sign up for a newsletter. We're going "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":60.24,"endTime":65.92,"body":"to, providing lots, of cool stuff in that. And  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":65.92,"endTime":69.84,"body":"the first one's going to be going out at the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":65.92,"endTime":69.84,"body":"end of this month. so make sure you check that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":69.84,"endTime":77.4,"body":"out. Okay. So I think that's enough preamble, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":69.84,"endTime":77.4,"body":"and enough celebration. So let's jump into,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":77.4,"endTime":85.52,"body":"let's get started with our question, which "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":77.4,"endTime":85.52,"body":"is, is employee loyalty a thing anymore?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":85.52,"endTime":93.52,"body":"So, no, it's not. And honestly, the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":85.52,"endTime":93.52,"body":"way that you're probably thinking about the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":93.52,"endTime":101.64,"body":"more traditional or old school employee loyalty, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":93.52,"endTime":101.64,"body":"it never was a thing. Most often when people are  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":101.64,"endTime":109.32,"body":"talking about employee loyalty or this idea that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":101.64,"endTime":109.32,"body":"employees are no longer showing loyalty to their  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":109.32,"endTime":115.52,"body":"employers, they're talking about the idea of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":109.32,"endTime":115.52,"body":"longevity in a job. Right. People staying with  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":115.52,"endTime":122.72,"body":"one company for 30 plus years and retiring. you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":115.52,"endTime":122.72,"body":"know, that whole idea that you could get a job  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":122.72,"endTime":128.32,"body":"with a company right out of school or university "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":122.72,"endTime":128.32,"body":"and stay with them for your entire career and  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":128.32,"endTime":135.28,"body":"retire with a pension or, you know, even just "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":128.32,"endTime":135.28,"body":"have the ability to retire, this was deemed as,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":135.28,"endTime":141.88,"body":"people showing loyalty to the employer. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":135.28,"endTime":141.88,"body":"honestly, I don't think that was the case. Sure,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":141.88,"endTime":147.6,"body":"there are some people who absolutely would "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":141.88,"endTime":147.6,"body":"feel a sense of loyalty to a company,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":147.6,"endTime":154.08,"body":"especially if they had been treated very well by "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":147.6,"endTime":154.08,"body":"that company. But I would argue that even in the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":154.08,"endTime":161.3,"body":"longevity of employment equals loyalty days, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":154.08,"endTime":161.3,"body":"the employer is not what people were loyal to."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.3,"endTime":169.04,"body":"Yeah, I think that even if, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.3,"endTime":169.04,"body":"you look at maybe even a more updated view of,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":169.04,"endTime":175.52,"body":"employee loyalty, maybe it's not 30 years, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":169.04,"endTime":175.52,"body":"maybe even just five years. There is. I think  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":175.52,"endTime":182.16,"body":"what you're getting at there is really just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":175.52,"endTime":182.16,"body":"a fundamental flaw in the concept of what  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":183.64,"endTime":190.48,"body":"employee loyalty is and what employee loyality "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":183.64,"endTime":190.48,"body":"was too. Because you're right. The idea of, well,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":190.48,"endTime":197.2,"body":"I'm loyal to this company, they were good enough "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":190.48,"endTime":197.2,"body":"to give me a job, so they've earned my loyalty,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":197.76,"endTime":203.28,"body":"was probably how a lot of businesses "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":197.76,"endTime":203.28,"body":"thought that whole relationship was,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":203.28,"endTime":209.76,"body":"but it was really never that way. It was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":203.28,"endTime":209.76,"body":"often what they were loyal to was more  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":210.6,"endTime":216.24,"body":"what they could, what they were provided or what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":210.6,"endTime":216.24,"body":"they could provide to their families. And it was,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":216.24,"endTime":222.44,"body":"and in many cases, I would argue it's despite "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":216.24,"endTime":222.44,"body":"the job and the company that they're working for."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":222.44,"endTime":228.8,"body":"Yeah, I mean I look at, and so we're "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":222.44,"endTime":228.8,"body":"really talking about kind of the hallmark of the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":228.8,"endTime":236.48,"body":"sixties, seventies and eighties, this idea that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":228.8,"endTime":236.48,"body":"a single income family could purchase a home,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":236.48,"endTime":243.88,"body":"a vehicle, raise a family, and take the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":236.48,"endTime":243.88,"body":"occasional vacation, every year. You know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":243.88,"endTime":250.12,"body":"wages were more competitive, or especially "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":243.88,"endTime":250.12,"body":"comparatively, with today much more in line  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":250.12,"endTime":255.52,"body":"with the cost of living. And as I said, I would "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":250.12,"endTime":255.52,"body":"argue that it's not the employer that they were  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":255.52,"endTime":262.88,"body":"loyal to, it's the benefits that come from full "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":255.52,"endTime":262.88,"body":"time employment and made staying in the job,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":262.88,"endTime":269.8,"body":"easier and more convenient than leaving to find "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":262.88,"endTime":269.8,"body":"something else. People were motivated to stay  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":269.8,"endTime":277.16,"body":"because of the perks, because what it allowed them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":269.8,"endTime":277.16,"body":"to do, you know, they had, you know, more often  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":277.16,"endTime":283.48,"body":"more likely to have had pension, plans and health "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":277.16,"endTime":283.48,"body":"benefits and the ability to provide for their  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":283.48,"endTime":291.72,"body":"families. My argument is that employee loyalty "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":283.48,"endTime":291.72,"body":"was more about employee motivation, and that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":291.72,"endTime":298.8,"body":"companies more often aligned what they offered "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":291.72,"endTime":298.8,"body":"in terms of compensation, benefits, pensions.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":298.8,"endTime":305.38,"body":"That entire employee experience was more aligned "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":298.8,"endTime":305.38,"body":"with employee motivation than it is currently."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":305.38,"endTime":314.6,"body":"Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":305.38,"endTime":314.6,"body":"there's a lot of like loaded baggage around the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":314.6,"endTime":321.4,"body":"way that loyalty, employee loyalty is spoken "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":314.6,"endTime":321.4,"body":"about in a lot of companies. There's a lot of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":321.4,"endTime":327.8,"body":"false assumptions and false equivalencies that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":321.4,"endTime":327.8,"body":"really are behind that term when it's used at,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":327.8,"endTime":331.44,"body":"you know, at the higher levels in a lot of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":327.8,"endTime":331.44,"body":"companies, because they really misunderstand,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":331.44,"endTime":338.16,"body":"I think, this whole, the whole relationship "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":331.44,"endTime":338.16,"body":"the entire time. Because I would argue if the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":338.16,"endTime":344.68,"body":"loyalty was mostly to stability, That's what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":338.16,"endTime":344.68,"body":"people were loyal to. I am loyal to the fact  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":344.68,"endTime":351.76,"body":"that I have a steady income, I have benefits I "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":344.68,"endTime":351.76,"body":"can rely on, the company's not going anywhere,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":351.76,"endTime":358.64,"body":"I'm not going anywhere, and that's where my "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":351.76,"endTime":358.64,"body":"loyalty lies. But the thing is that it's as  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":358.64,"endTime":364.6,"body":"much of a hallmark in kind of in those "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":358.64,"endTime":364.6,"body":"like, in like seventies, eighties, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":364.6,"endTime":369.92,"body":"kind of idea of this, you know, single "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":364.6,"endTime":369.92,"body":"income family that can you know, live a,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":369.92,"endTime":377.84,"body":"have a good quality of life. What's as connected "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":369.92,"endTime":377.84,"body":"to that or as prevalent of that is the. Is the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":377.84,"endTime":384.64,"body":"concept of job dissatisfaction. How much. It's a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":377.84,"endTime":384.64,"body":"joke about how much people hated their jobs and,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":384.64,"endTime":389.6,"body":"you know, and how begrudgingly they went to work "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":384.64,"endTime":389.6,"body":"every day and how I suffered and toiled and,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":389.6,"endTime":393.72,"body":"you know, you know, at the job all day, and my "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":389.6,"endTime":393.72,"body":"family doesn't appreciate, you know, those were  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":393.72,"endTime":400.64,"body":"the kind of the. That was what embodied that whole "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":393.72,"endTime":400.64,"body":"idea, right? That I do this job, provide me with  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":400.64,"endTime":406.4,"body":"stability, but this. And I go there despite the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":400.64,"endTime":406.4,"body":"job that I dislike. I'm there for the stability."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":406.4,"endTime":411.72,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's funny, but "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":406.4,"endTime":411.72,"body":"I mean, that's. That is the mentality.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":411.72,"endTime":419.32,"body":"And part of the mentality was, or at "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":411.72,"endTime":419.32,"body":"least like my, I remember being told by,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":419.92,"endTime":429.56,"body":"relatives that work is not for you to enjoy. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":419.92,"endTime":429.56,"body":"Right. Don't like, especially when I left to,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":429.56,"endTime":435.88,"body":"left a stable career to start my own business. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":429.56,"endTime":435.88,"body":"Well, work's not supposed to be fun. It's work,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":435.88,"endTime":443.48,"body":"right? You just, you go, you do your "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":435.88,"endTime":443.48,"body":"job and you go home. That mentality of,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":443.48,"endTime":450.32,"body":"it's work is about earning enough to provide "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":443.48,"endTime":450.32,"body":"for my family or allowing me to do the things  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":450.32,"endTime":457.96,"body":"that actually motivate me. So having hobbies or, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":450.32,"endTime":457.96,"body":"you know, going on vacation. But we've. Our. Our  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":457.96,"endTime":468.12,"body":"relationship with work has changed because as "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":457.96,"endTime":468.12,"body":"we moved away from this idea of, the employee  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":468.12,"endTime":473.92,"body":"experience and the employee relationship, and we "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":468.12,"endTime":473.92,"body":"turned it into more of an employee transaction.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":473.92,"endTime":478.14,"body":"With companies focusing on downsizing, or, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":473.92,"endTime":478.14,"body":"I mean, especially through the nineties."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":478.14,"endTime":478.48,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":478.48,"endTime":487.24,"body":"There's a huge, surge of it. the idea "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":478.48,"endTime":487.24,"body":"that you even showing, quote unquote, loyalty,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":487.24,"endTime":494.36,"body":"you know, spending 20 years with a company didn't "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":487.24,"endTime":494.36,"body":"guarantee that when, the company hit any type of  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":494.36,"endTime":505.88,"body":"snag or had to, lay off employees, oftentimes the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":494.36,"endTime":505.88,"body":"longevity was worked against you because you were  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":505.88,"endTime":511.56,"body":"earning more. They could let the long standing "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":505.88,"endTime":511.56,"body":"employees go and hire somebody fresh out of school  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":511.56,"endTime":519.56,"body":"at a much lower cost. Like this relationship "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":511.56,"endTime":519.56,"body":"that, our society shifted away from focusing  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":519.56,"endTime":530.28,"body":"on providing as work, as providing, stability for "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":519.56,"endTime":530.28,"body":"the family to work, really just as a transaction  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":530.28,"endTime":539.64,"body":"for labor, for employers to, use as they see "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":530.28,"endTime":539.64,"body":"fit, I think is largely responsible for the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":539.64,"endTime":548.36,"body":"perceptions that we have today of it's easier to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":539.64,"endTime":548.36,"body":"align, to keep my motivation to provide for my  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":548.36,"endTime":556.12,"body":"family. It's easier for me to job hop every three "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":548.36,"endTime":556.12,"body":"to five years than it is to stay at a company for,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":556.12,"endTime":564.24,"body":"you know, 510, 15 years, because I'm going to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":556.12,"endTime":564.24,"body":"be able to provide much better if I continuously  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":564.24,"endTime":570.96,"body":"look for opportunities because people, whether "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":564.24,"endTime":570.96,"body":"it's recruitment bonuses or it's being able to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":570.96,"endTime":578.14,"body":"negotiate your salaries better. We don't have "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":570.96,"endTime":578.14,"body":"the same relationship to work that we used to."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.14,"endTime":584.56,"body":"Well, I think it's the idea of what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.14,"endTime":584.56,"body":"stability meant then versus what stability  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":584.56,"endTime":592.16,"body":"means now. Because stability meant then "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":584.56,"endTime":592.16,"body":"what I can rely on. M I had job security  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":592.72,"endTime":599.56,"body":"and I could rely on being able to provide "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":592.72,"endTime":599.56,"body":"the quality of life because this employers,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":599.56,"endTime":606.4,"body":"because the longevity at my company will provide "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":599.56,"endTime":606.4,"body":"that stability. Now, if you think about it,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":606.96,"endTime":613.9,"body":"stability is more around how sure of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":606.96,"endTime":613.9,"body":"I am I can get another job quickly."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":613.9,"endTime":617.68,"body":"Yeah. Do I have stability in my skillset?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":617.68,"endTime":622.04,"body":"Yeah, exactly. How in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":617.68,"endTime":622.04,"body":"demand is my, because again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":622.04,"endTime":629.8,"body":"that's what a lot of kind of mid career people, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":622.04,"endTime":629.8,"body":"that's what, that's what lets them sleep at night  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":629.8,"endTime":633.12,"body":"is knowing that they could get another job."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":633.12,"endTime":640.52,"body":"Quickly if the proverbial "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":633.12,"endTime":640.52,"body":"stuff hits the fan. When, yeah, when."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":640.52,"endTime":645.84,"body":"But I do think that's a huge "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":640.52,"endTime":645.84,"body":"generational mindset difference where you,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":645.84,"endTime":649.44,"body":"what lets me sleep at night "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":645.84,"endTime":649.44,"body":"kind of, you know, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":649.44,"endTime":655.72,"body":"for some of the older generations are that the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":649.44,"endTime":655.72,"body":"company's stable. I'm stable there, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":655.72,"endTime":659.64,"body":"going to work. The stability, the sameness, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":655.72,"endTime":659.64,"body":"the comfort zone, that's what keeps me,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":659.64,"endTime":665.4,"body":"you know, let's sleep at night where with "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":659.64,"endTime":665.4,"body":"the younger generation that ideals never,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":665.4,"endTime":670.6,"body":"is not available to them and they've been raised "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":665.4,"endTime":670.6,"body":"as unavailable to them. So it's the idea of, you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":670.6,"endTime":678.32,"body":"know, how good are you at, ah, finding a new job, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":670.6,"endTime":678.32,"body":"how in demand are your skills? And that really,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":678.32,"endTime":685.08,"body":"because even the way that we kind of train the, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":678.32,"endTime":685.08,"body":"you know, the young, or the new employees that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":685.08,"endTime":689.4,"body":"come in, coming out of school and stuff like that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":685.08,"endTime":689.4,"body":"it's about how in demand is your skill set, how  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":689.4,"endTime":693.84,"body":"in demand is this career. That's what you need to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":689.4,"endTime":693.84,"body":"be looking for. High demand, where that was never  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":693.84,"endTime":698.04,"body":"an issue. You know, kind of like, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":693.84,"endTime":698.04,"body":"early nineties, late eighties, that was, it."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":698.04,"endTime":699.76,"body":"Was never less of an issue."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":699.76,"endTime":703.4,"body":"Yeah, exactly. It was far less "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":699.76,"endTime":703.4,"body":"of an issue was like, well, just wait for  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":703.4,"endTime":708.2,"body":"another factory to come in and that's what's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":703.4,"endTime":708.2,"body":"going to be. Right. So part of it is that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":708.2,"endTime":712.92,"body":"but the other thing too is like the way that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":708.2,"endTime":712.92,"body":"you're kind of talking about it is very,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":712.92,"endTime":719.4,"body":"very reflective of larger corporate entities. Kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":712.92,"endTime":719.4,"body":"of like, you know, it is, right, but I think that,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":719.4,"endTime":724.84,"body":"but it's as, it maybe looks a bit different, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":719.4,"endTime":724.84,"body":"but it's as truth, as true and impactful kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":724.84,"endTime":729.84,"body":"of in smaller companies. Because what really "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":724.84,"endTime":729.84,"body":"comes to mind is it wasn't that long ago,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":729.84,"endTime":738.16,"body":"I remember you telling me you were talking to a, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":729.84,"endTime":738.16,"body":"mid, sized nonprofit, and they had, and we'd done  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":738.16,"endTime":746.2,"body":"some work with them, kind of, off and on. And, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":738.16,"endTime":746.2,"body":"what they were kind of talking about was how  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":746.2,"endTime":751.4,"body":"employee loyalty isn't a thing anymore. And it was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":746.2,"endTime":751.4,"body":"the idea of how they had had a long, they had a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":751.4,"endTime":756.56,"body":"long term employees of kind of the core function "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":751.4,"endTime":756.56,"body":"of their organization. They had employees that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":756.56,"endTime":761.96,"body":"were over 20 years. And as those employees retired "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":756.56,"endTime":761.96,"body":"to their replacements lasted a year to two, Max."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":761.96,"endTime":767.76,"body":"Yeah, yeah. The manager of this "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":761.96,"endTime":767.76,"body":"particular segment, within the nonprofit,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":767.76,"endTime":774.76,"body":"was, we were talking about a number of things, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":767.76,"endTime":774.76,"body":"and like, she was regularly in this recruitment,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":774.76,"endTime":784.12,"body":"stage where, they had had retirements, people "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":774.76,"endTime":784.12,"body":"who had literally been with the nonprofit,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":784.12,"endTime":790.56,"body":"since it started, retiring, and they needed to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":784.12,"endTime":790.56,"body":"replace those people and the frustrations that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":790.56,"endTime":797.4,"body":"she was experiencing bringing people in, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":790.56,"endTime":797.4,"body":"only to have them, jump ship in a year or  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":797.4,"endTime":805.2,"body":"two. And how for many people, they saw, this "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":797.4,"endTime":805.2,"body":"particular nonprofit as a stepping stone,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":805.2,"endTime":816.04,"body":"the first step in their career, and not a long, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":805.2,"endTime":816.04,"body":"term, focus of their career and how. So we, yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":816.04,"endTime":822.6,"body":"the, the topic of loyalty absolutely came up "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":816.04,"endTime":822.6,"body":"in that. And part of our conversation was just  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":822.6,"endTime":831.42,"body":"challenging them on, well, what are they, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":822.6,"endTime":831.42,"body":"what do you expect people to be loyal to?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":831.42,"endTime":831.431,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":831.431,"endTime":836.64,"body":"Right. What, what are you asking them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":831.431,"endTime":836.64,"body":"to be loyal to? Are you asking them to be loyal  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":836.64,"endTime":842.56,"body":"to you as the manager? Are you asking them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":836.64,"endTime":842.56,"body":"to be loyal to the nonprofit that has hired  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":842.56,"endTime":847.64,"body":"them? Are you, are you asking them to just "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":842.56,"endTime":847.64,"body":"be so incredibly grateful that they have any  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":847.64,"endTime":853.84,"body":"type of employment that they should ignore "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":847.64,"endTime":853.84,"body":"other opportunities that come up? This idea  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":853.84,"endTime":865.24,"body":"of loyalty. Loyalty has to be earned, right? "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":853.84,"endTime":865.24,"body":"Loyalty. If we want employees to be loyal,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":865.24,"endTime":874.72,"body":"we need to show loyalty. We need to act in a "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":865.24,"endTime":874.72,"body":"way that incentivizes people to stay with us,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":874.72,"endTime":881.8,"body":"treat them well. There's a whole, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":874.72,"endTime":881.8,"body":"I mean, go off on a, soapbox here."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":881.8,"endTime":887.16,"body":"And again, like, I do think "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":881.8,"endTime":887.16,"body":"that you're being a bit more critical  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":887.16,"endTime":895.22,"body":"of the organizations than necessarily they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":887.16,"endTime":895.22,"body":"warranted. Because, I mean, again, yeah, I mean."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":895.22,"endTime":899.084,"body":"We are, our conversation shifted "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":895.22,"endTime":899.084,"body":"from them specifically to loyalty in."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":899.084,"endTime":903.8,"body":"Absolutely, yes. I'm sure you weren't as "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":899.084,"endTime":903.8,"body":"like, you know, poignant and sharp tongued when  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":903.8,"endTime":908.52,"body":"you spoke to them, obviously. But I do think that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":903.8,"endTime":908.52,"body":"generally speaking, in this, in this conversation,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":908.52,"endTime":914.48,"body":"you're being a little more critical. I think then "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":908.52,"endTime":914.48,"body":"is this, or is, is probably representative of the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":914.48,"endTime":918.76,"body":"realities behind them? Because again, this, and I "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":914.48,"endTime":918.76,"body":"think this nonprofit situation is a great way to,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":918.76,"endTime":925.64,"body":"just to kind of dig into that because they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":918.76,"endTime":925.64,"body":"were, you know, they tried their best to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":925.64,"endTime":930.72,"body":"be a values driven organization. You know, they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":925.64,"endTime":930.72,"body":"try and provide the best kind of experience that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":930.72,"endTime":934.72,"body":"it possibly can within the restrictions of their "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":930.72,"endTime":934.72,"body":"funding and everything like that. But the reality  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":934.72,"endTime":945.36,"body":"of it, it wasn't so much that they were doing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":934.72,"endTime":945.36,"body":"things badly. It was that they weren't unable  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":945.36,"endTime":950.88,"body":"or they had not done anything to. Going back "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":945.36,"endTime":950.88,"body":"to what you said earlier about motivation, they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":950.88,"endTime":956.12,"body":"really weren't able to motivate people to stay in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":950.88,"endTime":956.12,"body":"the long term because, I mean, the management team  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":956.12,"endTime":961.6,"body":"there, there's a very small management team and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":956.12,"endTime":961.6,"body":"they have been around forever. So new employees  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":961.6,"endTime":965.36,"body":"knew that there wasn't opportunities to move up in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":961.6,"endTime":965.36,"body":"the organization because there was like, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":965.36,"endTime":971.68,"body":"one tier above them coming in and they were going "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":965.36,"endTime":971.68,"body":"to be there for the next ten to 15 years. Yeah.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":971.68,"endTime":977.56,"body":"So, so you can't really move up. there's very, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":971.68,"endTime":977.56,"body":"you know, the or edition provided a lot of good,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":977.56,"endTime":980.8,"body":"you know, mission and, you know, you may "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":977.56,"endTime":980.8,"body":"feel like you're m making a difference."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":980.8,"endTime":986.4,"body":"Real impact in the community was "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":980.8,"endTime":986.4,"body":"great. Yeah, but they, I mean, their wages  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":986.4,"endTime":992.68,"body":"were largely set by the, the funding agreements "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":986.4,"endTime":992.68,"body":"that they had in place, like, yeah, I mean, they,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":992.68,"endTime":1001.72,"body":"they earnestly wanted to do to change things. They "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":992.68,"endTime":1001.72,"body":"had a number of restrictions placed on them. Yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1001.72,"endTime":1009.96,"body":"but yes, absolutely values driven. Absolutely. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1001.72,"endTime":1009.96,"body":"ability to make a impact, in, on people's  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1009.96,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"lives in the community, which is what attracted "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1009.96,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"people in. But it's great as an attraction that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1022.0,"body":"you know, we've talked about purpose many times "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1022.0,"body":"before and the, you know, ability to, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1022.0,"endTime":1029.36,"body":"what your purpose, what you're trying to do to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1022.0,"endTime":1029.36,"body":"change the world is great to draw people in or to,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1029.36,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"ignite the initial spark of motivation, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1029.36,"endTime":1035.4,"body":"but rarely enough to sustain it long term."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1035.4,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"Well, and again, part of the problems that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1035.4,"endTime":1039.92,"body":"we kind of identified were some of the things that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"they probably could work on was that they, the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1039.92,"endTime":1046.48,"body":"older staff are still around. From the original  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1046.48,"endTime":1051.08,"body":"inception of the organization, some of them are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1046.48,"endTime":1051.08,"body":"still around and they're very stuck in their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1051.08,"endTime":1057.56,"body":"ways. So they're very slow to evolve. So, which "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1051.08,"endTime":1057.56,"body":"causes. So things do not progress the way that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1057.56,"endTime":1063.24,"body":"they want them to. So bringing in someone with new "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1057.56,"endTime":1063.24,"body":"ideas that has a bit of a, you know, that's a bit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1063.24,"endTime":1068.28,"body":"ambitious. They would be drawn to that mission, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1063.24,"endTime":1068.28,"body":"but then they come in there and they say, okay,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1068.28,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"you're locked in place. You can't really be "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1068.28,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"promoted. we're still doing things the way that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1078.84,"body":"everyone's comfortable doing. So if that doesn't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1078.84,"body":"work for you, then find somewhere else to go.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1079.4,"endTime":1085.12,"body":"And everyone's kind of like, sure, that's what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1079.4,"endTime":1085.12,"body":"I'm going to do. so a lot of it was, and I think  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1085.12,"endTime":1091.08,"body":"this really might be maybe the answer to kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1085.12,"endTime":1091.08,"body":"of the issues around loyalty is going back to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1091.08,"endTime":1097.4,"body":"what you said about purpose and motivation, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1091.08,"endTime":1097.4,"body":"because, I mean, what a lot of employees that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1097.4,"endTime":1103.68,"body":"come into a lot of companies, what they're loyal "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1097.4,"endTime":1103.68,"body":"to is their own career path, is their trajectory,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1103.68,"endTime":1108.56,"body":"their growth, their ability to achieve, or "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1103.68,"endTime":1108.56,"body":"they're loyal to the kind of the relationships  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1108.56,"endTime":1114.68,"body":"they develop within their coworkers, or having a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1108.56,"endTime":1114.68,"body":"great boss, or things that they kind of cling on  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1114.68,"endTime":1120.72,"body":"to. But when they're loyal to them, it's actually "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1114.68,"endTime":1120.72,"body":"more about their motivator. They find purpose in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1120.72,"endTime":1128.08,"body":"those things. So I actually think that what is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1120.72,"endTime":1128.08,"body":"probably a better way to have this conversation,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1128.08,"endTime":1133.96,"body":"in the broad strokes out there in the community, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1128.08,"endTime":1133.96,"body":"is to talk less about employee loyalty and talk  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.96,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"far more about the motivation and purpose that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.96,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"sparks or ignites loyalty in the workplaces. And I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1142.92,"endTime":1148.04,"body":"think an excellent tool to do that and facilitate "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1142.92,"endTime":1148.04,"body":"that discussion is going to be a program we talked  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1148.04,"endTime":1153.82,"body":"about in a previous podcast episode, which is our "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1148.04,"endTime":1153.82,"body":"igniting motivation. V eight sparks of purpose."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1153.82,"endTime":1160.8,"body":"Yeah. And that motivation, I believe "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1153.82,"endTime":1160.8,"body":"that even in going back to kind of the initial  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1160.8,"endTime":1168.56,"body":"question, even in the more traditional way, of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1160.8,"endTime":1168.56,"body":"looking at employee loyalty equals longevity  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1168.56,"endTime":1175.76,"body":"in the job, it was m mostly about what motivated "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1168.56,"endTime":1175.76,"body":"people. And employers did a better job of aligning  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1175.76,"endTime":1183.72,"body":"what they had to do with what motivated people. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1175.76,"endTime":1183.72,"body":"I mean, I think about my parents, right. my dad  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1183.72,"endTime":1192.28,"body":"started his career as, they were both teachers. My "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1183.72,"endTime":1192.28,"body":"dad started his career as a teacher in what it's  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1192.28,"endTime":1198.64,"body":"probably early seventies, late sixties, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1192.28,"endTime":1198.64,"body":"early seventies. He's old. Sorry, dad.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1200.8,"endTime":1210.04,"body":"but he stayed with, like, he, he was a high "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1200.8,"endTime":1210.04,"body":"school teacher, for 27 years, and then moved  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1210.04,"endTime":1217.24,"body":"into administration at the same school until "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1210.04,"endTime":1217.24,"body":"he retired. And it wasn't that he was loyal to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1217.24,"endTime":1223.84,"body":"the school. I mean, sure he felt affinity for the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1217.24,"endTime":1223.84,"body":"school and probably valued that school community,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1223.84,"endTime":1228.64,"body":"but he wasn't loyal to the school. He wasn't "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1223.84,"endTime":1228.64,"body":"loyal to the school board that he worked for.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1229.4,"endTime":1235.2,"body":"Right. He had the ability to make a, like, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1229.4,"endTime":1235.2,"body":"his motivation was being able to make a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1235.2,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"difference in the lives of students, being "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1235.2,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"able to provide, for his family, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1247.36,"body":"being able to like it. Also there are the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1247.36,"body":"perks of, you know, having, being able to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1247.36,"endTime":1255.16,"body":"contribute to a pension so that he could retire, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1247.36,"endTime":1255.16,"body":"when he wanted to. Right. It was that, that job,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1255.16,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"that, ah, operand that career matched his "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1255.16,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"motivations. And that's how you're right,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1271.78,"body":"that's how we need to look at loyalty. It's, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1271.78,"body":"loyalty is the outcome of aligning motivation."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1271.78,"endTime":1276.12,"body":"Absolutely. Yes. No, I think that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1271.78,"endTime":1276.12,"body":"I think that's a really good way to put it.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1276.12,"endTime":1282.32,"body":"Is that, ah, is that the loyalty that you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1276.12,"endTime":1282.32,"body":"looking for is the result, the consequence,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1288.84,"body":"the outcome of focusing on what motivates "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1282.32,"endTime":1288.84,"body":"employees and where they find their purpose?  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1288.84,"endTime":1295.16,"body":"Because I think a great even way to illustrate "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1288.84,"endTime":1295.16,"body":"kind of the reality of probably at least half,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1295.16,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"if not more of the entire workforce is even "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1295.16,"endTime":1302.44,"body":"back in the seventies, right up until now,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1302.44,"endTime":1307.04,"body":"there exists this concept I used to talk about a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1302.44,"endTime":1307.04,"body":"lot when I was working in workforce development,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1307.04,"endTime":1313.64,"body":"which I referred to as quicksand jobs. And what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1307.04,"endTime":1313.64,"body":"I mean by that is a job that you step into when  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1313.64,"endTime":1319.24,"body":"you're looking for stability, but you become "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1313.64,"endTime":1319.24,"body":"stuck in and the longer that you're in it,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1319.24,"endTime":1327.44,"body":"the harder it is to leave. And some of them "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1319.24,"endTime":1327.44,"body":"really suck you in and you become buried or more  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1327.44,"endTime":1332.5,"body":"reality you come to dependent on and you can't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1327.44,"endTime":1332.5,"body":"leave the jobs even though you really want to."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1332.5,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"Yeah, I like that, I like that idea. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1332.5,"endTime":1339.2,"body":"I've heard you talk about that before. And  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1347.96,"body":"there are these types of jobs, they're, they "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1339.2,"endTime":1347.96,"body":"may be, they may, they may not challenge you,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1347.96,"endTime":1356.32,"body":"they may not provide you with the they may bore "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1347.96,"endTime":1356.32,"body":"you, they may not match your skill set or match  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1356.32,"endTime":1365.48,"body":"your motivations, but they may provide the ability "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1356.32,"endTime":1365.48,"body":"for you to you know, raise a family and you know,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1365.48,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"they may offer a great benefits and perks and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1365.48,"endTime":1371.12,"body":"enough to keep you there. That, and that just  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1378.72,"body":"makes it more difficult to leave. And that can "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1371.12,"endTime":1378.72,"body":"be m, that could, from the outside could look  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1378.72,"endTime":1384.36,"body":"like loyalty. Even though the person's not loyal "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1378.72,"endTime":1384.36,"body":"to the job, they're just stuck there because the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1384.36,"endTime":1392.12,"body":"wages are good enough, the pension, the benefits "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1384.36,"endTime":1392.12,"body":"are good enough, the work isn't too difficult.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1392.12,"endTime":1398.1,"body":"So it's easier for me to stay than it is. The "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1392.12,"endTime":1398.1,"body":"job's not making me mad enough to have to leave."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1398.1,"endTime":1400.92,"body":"Well, that's just it. Like, I mean. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1398.1,"endTime":1400.92,"body":"So I was talking to a good, a good friend of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1400.92,"endTime":1410.48,"body":"mine the other day and who used to be in in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1400.92,"endTime":1410.48,"body":"radio, and he loved working in that medium,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1410.48,"endTime":1415.84,"body":"just, and he was so gifted at it. But outside "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1410.48,"endTime":1415.84,"body":"of big urban centers, you really can't make a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1415.84,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"good living, you know, you know, in radio "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1415.84,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"at least in his opinion, it didn't meet."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1421.64,"endTime":1422.76,"body":"His expectation at least."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1422.76,"endTime":1427.0,"body":"Well exactly. I mean like he, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1422.76,"endTime":1427.0,"body":"he loved it, he put all into it. But again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1427.0,"endTime":1431.92,"body":"financially, you know, work life balance wise. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1427.0,"endTime":1431.92,"body":"It was really difficult for him to do so when he  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1431.92,"endTime":1438.04,"body":"had the opportunity to move into kind of like he "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1431.92,"endTime":1438.04,"body":"moved into kind of into a different sector. And  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1438.04,"endTime":1442.16,"body":"he was doing more like you know, kind of like "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1438.04,"endTime":1442.16,"body":"some media stuff. But then he ended up kind of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1442.16,"endTime":1447.24,"body":"being there wasn't a lot of work to do in it. So "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1442.16,"endTime":1447.24,"body":"he ended up moving into kind of a sales role in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1447.24,"endTime":1455.76,"body":"a company. And he's good at it, but it bores him. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1447.24,"endTime":1455.76,"body":"It does not challenge him any iota. So it became  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1455.76,"endTime":1463.0,"body":"a m more transactional type of employment where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1455.76,"endTime":1463.0,"body":"he does, he goes in, does his job, goes home,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1463.0,"endTime":1468.64,"body":"and then finds his, you know, his sparks "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1463.0,"endTime":1468.64,"body":"of motivation outside of the job. It's he,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1468.64,"endTime":1474.16,"body":"and he doesn't like it. Like he likes the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1468.64,"endTime":1474.16,"body":"people that he works for. The bosses are nice,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.16,"endTime":1478.44,"body":"but it's not a job that he enjoys. It's a job "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.16,"endTime":1478.44,"body":"that he begrudgingly goes into every day. But  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1478.44,"endTime":1484.0,"body":"it pays him well enough that it's hard to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1478.44,"endTime":1484.0,"body":"leave. And for his background, like I say,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1484.0,"endTime":1488.96,"body":"where he wants to work, he ah, where he's trained "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1484.0,"endTime":1488.96,"body":"and skilled and educated to work in. He can't,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1492.68,"body":"you know, make a living without having "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1488.96,"endTime":1492.68,"body":"a total life 180. And totally moving to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.68,"endTime":1497.52,"body":"a big urban center. And even then trying to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.68,"endTime":1497.52,"body":"earn his bones to get into it. So he's kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1497.52,"endTime":1505.44,"body":"of he's in this quicksand job wherever I. It's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1497.52,"endTime":1505.44,"body":"good. It's good enough to it. Sorry. It's good  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1505.44,"endTime":1510.8,"body":"enough that he want. That he kind of can't leave, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1505.44,"endTime":1510.8,"body":"but it's not good enough that he wants to stay."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1510.8,"endTime":1513.96,"body":"Well, there's conflicting "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1510.8,"endTime":1513.96,"body":"motivations. Right. talking about  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1513.96,"endTime":1520.6,"body":"motivation, part of the motivation, like he's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1513.96,"endTime":1520.6,"body":"motivated to What motivates him in work is,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1520.6,"endTime":1524.6,"body":"you know, aligned more closely with that radio"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1524.6,"endTime":1526.96,"body":"Medium."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1526.96,"endTime":1532.88,"body":"And he doesn't have that motivation "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1526.96,"endTime":1532.88,"body":"is not being met in his current job,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1532.88,"endTime":1541.8,"body":"but that motivation is being contrasted or meeting "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1532.88,"endTime":1541.8,"body":"or coming up against another motivation of well,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1541.8,"endTime":1547.84,"body":"I want to be able to earn a living and provide for "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1541.8,"endTime":1547.84,"body":"my family and save for retirement and all of these  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1547.84,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"other things. So it's really just a question "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1547.84,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"of which motivation wins out. And right now,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1554.0,"endTime":1562.44,"body":"the motivation to earn a living, a quality "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1554.0,"endTime":1562.44,"body":"living. And however they define that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1562.44,"endTime":1566.94,"body":"is beating the motivation to find work "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1562.44,"endTime":1566.94,"body":"in the field that really fulfills it."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1566.94,"endTime":1573.72,"body":"Well, that's just so going back to kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1566.94,"endTime":1573.72,"body":"of breaking down our motivation or any motivation,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1573.72,"endTime":1577.72,"body":"each production purpose. So just as a sort "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1573.72,"endTime":1577.72,"body":"of. So if We'll talk about this briefly.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1577.72,"endTime":1581.72,"body":"But we did a whole episode where we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1577.72,"endTime":1581.72,"body":"got into this in great detail. And,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1581.72,"endTime":1585.76,"body":"I'll put the episode number in the show notes. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1581.72,"endTime":1585.76,"body":"It's from our first season on motivating employees  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1585.76,"endTime":1591.72,"body":"through meaning and purpose. But, I'll, identify "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1585.76,"endTime":1591.72,"body":"the exact episode in the show notes. But quickly,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1591.72,"endTime":1597.32,"body":"though, just kind of what this concept is, is it's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1591.72,"endTime":1597.32,"body":"a program where it helps organizations look for  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1597.32,"endTime":1603.48,"body":"ways to tap into different types of motivation "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1597.32,"endTime":1603.48,"body":"in employees and different types of purpose. So  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1603.48,"endTime":1608.04,"body":"the sparks are the spark of. Spark to provide, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1603.48,"endTime":1608.04,"body":"which is basically what you just talked about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1608.04,"endTime":1612.28,"body":"being able to provide your family with a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1608.04,"endTime":1612.28,"body":"quality of life. The spark to accumulate,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1612.28,"endTime":1617.44,"body":"which is about kind of, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1612.28,"endTime":1617.44,"body":"amassing, whether it's, comfort or,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1617.44,"endTime":1622.16,"body":"you know, wage higher wages or prestige, or "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1617.44,"endTime":1622.16,"body":"even just like, you know, better control and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1622.16,"endTime":1626.48,"body":"better work life balance or those types of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1622.16,"endTime":1626.48,"body":"things. The spark to be part of something  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.94,"body":"which is just that you want to, you know, join "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.94,"body":"into a larger cause or feel like you belong."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1630.94,"endTime":1633.4,"body":"And the nonprofit did that very well."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1633.4,"endTime":1638.12,"body":"Absolutely. the spark of loyalty "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1633.4,"endTime":1638.12,"body":"to others, where you're mainly motivated by  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1638.12,"endTime":1642.76,"body":"those that you work with, whether that you work "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1638.12,"endTime":1642.76,"body":"for a great boss that, you know is, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1642.76,"endTime":1649.12,"body":"your loyalty or your motivation to work with them "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1642.76,"endTime":1649.12,"body":"or be part of a great team, is what gets you out  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1649.12,"endTime":1653.48,"body":"of bed in the morning. The spark to achieve, which "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1649.12,"endTime":1653.48,"body":"is the idea you want to accomplish something,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1653.48,"endTime":1657.28,"body":"which is probably the conflicting motivation for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1653.48,"endTime":1657.28,"body":"my friend who wants work on radio. He wants to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1657.28,"endTime":1665.04,"body":"achieve a lot and put all his effort into doing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1657.28,"endTime":1665.04,"body":"cool things in his medium that he loves. But I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1665.04,"endTime":1669.08,"body":"think that he's losing out, like you said, to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1665.04,"endTime":1669.08,"body":"the spark to provide, then there's a spark to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1669.08,"endTime":1672.92,"body":"stay relevant, which is more about, you want to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1669.08,"endTime":1672.92,"body":"kind of, you know, have your skills be utilized.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1672.92,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"You want to be part of it too, which I think is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1672.92,"endTime":1677.88,"body":"another piece for. For him, too. Then the spark  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1677.88,"endTime":1681.44,"body":"to make a difference, which is, again, going back "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1677.88,"endTime":1681.44,"body":"to the nonprofit. You want to help, you want to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1681.44,"endTime":1687.28,"body":"make the world a better place. And then the last "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1681.44,"endTime":1687.28,"body":"one was a spark to improve yourself. You want to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1687.28,"endTime":1691.12,"body":"develop yourself more. You, you're constantly "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1687.28,"endTime":1691.12,"body":"hungry for learning and self development.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1691.12,"endTime":1695.36,"body":"Self fulfillment is kind of what, again."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1691.12,"endTime":1695.36,"body":"[JAMES]: Gives you, that challenges you,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1695.36,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"that builds your skills, that provides you an "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1695.36,"endTime":1701.44,"body":"opportunity to learn something new. And what I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1709.52,"body":"really like about the, your explanation there is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1701.44,"endTime":1709.52,"body":"that it highlights that people are not motivated  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1709.52,"endTime":1716.76,"body":"by one thing. Right? It's not about finding that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1709.52,"endTime":1716.76,"body":"one motivation. All, ah, we are all motivated to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1716.76,"endTime":1723.56,"body":"some degree by each of the sparks. Right. So "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1716.76,"endTime":1723.56,"body":"being able to tap into as many as possible  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1723.56,"endTime":1731.12,"body":"will be the best outcome. But understanding "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1723.56,"endTime":1731.12,"body":"on an individual level what motivates people,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1731.12,"endTime":1738.08,"body":"what's going to motivate them to stay with your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1731.12,"endTime":1738.08,"body":"organization, to provide the best work, to show,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1738.08,"endTime":1743.88,"body":"quote unquote, employee loyalty, that's how "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1738.08,"endTime":1743.88,"body":"you're really going to end. There's, there will be  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.88,"endTime":1755.08,"body":"conflicting, motivations in there and that if you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.88,"endTime":1755.08,"body":"are not meeting, some of them, many m of these,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1756.0,"endTime":1762.56,"body":"motivations, then you could lose people even "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1756.0,"endTime":1762.56,"body":"if you're hitting one, really, ah, important  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1762.56,"endTime":1770.0,"body":"motivation for. So for me, the motivate, the spark "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1762.56,"endTime":1770.0,"body":"to achieve is a big one. it's what led me to, for,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1770.0,"endTime":1774.84,"body":"to start the business to, because I want to build "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1770.0,"endTime":1774.84,"body":"something, I want to create something of value. I  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1774.84,"endTime":1780.92,"body":"want to have an impact, and this is a vehicle "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1774.84,"endTime":1780.92,"body":"to allow me to achieve that. there's a number  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1780.92,"endTime":1787.44,"body":"of motivations that are wrapped up in there, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1780.92,"endTime":1787.44,"body":"but that's the prominent one. even if you're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1787.44,"endTime":1795.32,"body":"tapping into a really important motivation for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1787.44,"endTime":1795.32,"body":"somebody, if you're missing four or five other  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1795.32,"endTime":1803.48,"body":"ones that cumulatively are more important, you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1795.32,"endTime":1803.48,"body":"not going to get the benefit from it. We need to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1803.48,"endTime":1809.24,"body":"be looking at people on an individual level "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1803.48,"endTime":1809.24,"body":"and what motivates them and try to hit those  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1809.24,"endTime":1816.72,"body":"sparks of purpose as many times as we can if we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1809.24,"endTime":1816.72,"body":"really want to drive productivity, performance,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1816.72,"endTime":1824.6,"body":"motivation, longevity. This is a great tool "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1816.72,"endTime":1824.6,"body":"for kind of a lens to look at it through."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1824.6,"endTime":1828.96,"body":"Yeah, well, I mean, and this is something "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1824.6,"endTime":1828.96,"body":"that we've used very effectively when trying  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1828.96,"endTime":1835.36,"body":"to address things like employee retention. is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1828.96,"endTime":1835.36,"body":"something that, you know, the idea of how powerful  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1835.36,"endTime":1839.84,"body":"motivation and purpose is to things like employee "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1835.36,"endTime":1839.84,"body":"loyalty and workforce stability and everything  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1839.84,"endTime":1845.16,"body":"else like that too. And the idea of being more "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1839.84,"endTime":1845.16,"body":"tactical and taking into individual preferences  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1845.16,"endTime":1848.28,"body":"into consideration when you're building a larger "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1845.16,"endTime":1848.28,"body":"strategy, rather than just trying to like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1848.28,"endTime":1851.64,"body":"you know, throw a bunch of stuff against the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1848.28,"endTime":1851.64,"body":"wall and hope for the best, which is what  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1851.64,"endTime":1855.88,"body":"most companies end up doing when they don't have a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1851.64,"endTime":1855.88,"body":"strategy. But I think that one thing that I should  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1855.88,"endTime":1861.76,"body":"definitely mention that you've, you touched on a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1855.88,"endTime":1861.76,"body":"few times, but I'll kind of summarize it a bit,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1861.76,"endTime":1868.12,"body":"is the realities of motivation. So when I used to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1861.76,"endTime":1868.12,"body":"like. So again, I used to teach this stuff a lot,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1868.12,"endTime":1875.44,"body":"you know, before, and some, some of our other "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1868.12,"endTime":1875.44,"body":"training ideas, content is that when we think  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1875.44,"endTime":1880.28,"body":"about motivation, we think about it, well, if I'm "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1875.44,"endTime":1880.28,"body":"motivated to keep this job, my motivation has to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1880.28,"endTime":1886.36,"body":"be at 100%. Either I'm motivated or I'm not. It's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1880.28,"endTime":1886.36,"body":"either yes or no, 100% or 0%. And that's how a lot  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1886.36,"endTime":1893.28,"body":"of us think motivation is. But we are wrong if we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1886.36,"endTime":1893.28,"body":"think that our motivation is constantly embattled  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1893.28,"endTime":1900.04,"body":"and constantly against competing motivations. So "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1893.28,"endTime":1900.04,"body":"a great example is the idea of the quicksand job  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1900.04,"endTime":1907.56,"body":"is if your quicksand job, let's say you work in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1900.04,"endTime":1907.56,"body":"a factory and you don't, and it's hot and dirty,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1907.56,"endTime":1912.04,"body":"but, you know, and you go home and you're tired "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1907.56,"endTime":1912.04,"body":"and, you know, you don't like it, you don't.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1912.04,"endTime":1916.44,"body":"People love the environment, but it pays really "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1912.04,"endTime":1916.44,"body":"well, has a great pension and this and that.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1916.44,"endTime":1924.6,"body":"That's kind of one of the stereotypical ideas of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1916.44,"endTime":1924.6,"body":"a quicksand job. And if your quicksand job has,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1924.6,"endTime":1930.32,"body":"you know, gives you enough with the ability to, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1924.6,"endTime":1930.32,"body":"instead of, you know, to provide that spark to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1930.32,"endTime":1935.48,"body":"provide, and you can have a good quality of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1930.32,"endTime":1935.48,"body":"life, you know, you toiled during your shift,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1935.48,"endTime":1939.56,"body":"and you go home and you can really, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1935.48,"endTime":1939.56,"body":"you can have your weekends off and you can,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1939.56,"endTime":1944.542,"body":"you can go on vacation. You can, you know, give "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1939.56,"endTime":1944.542,"body":"your kids braces, like, you know, all the kind."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1944.542,"endTime":1946.78,"body":"Of stuff you're working "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1944.542,"endTime":1946.78,"body":"to live, not living to work."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1946.78,"endTime":1952.08,"body":"Exactly. That's a great way to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1946.78,"endTime":1952.08,"body":"put it. if, you know, you are. That is  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1952.08,"endTime":1958.04,"body":"constantly embattled with all the stuff, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1952.08,"endTime":1958.04,"body":"all those perks are embattled against the,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1958.04,"endTime":1962.88,"body":"things that you dislike about the job. So your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1958.04,"endTime":1962.88,"body":"motivation isn't 100% into the job. It's probably,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1962.88,"endTime":1970.04,"body":"like, 60% motivated to keep the job where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1962.88,"endTime":1970.04,"body":"the 40% is the. I don't like my coworkers.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1970.04,"endTime":1974.76,"body":"I'm always exhausted. You know, it's. It's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1970.04,"endTime":1974.76,"body":"hot and it's draining, and I'm physically,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1974.76,"endTime":1979.4,"body":"you know, I'm starting to like, you know, affect "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1974.76,"endTime":1979.4,"body":"my, you know, my health and. And this and that.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1979.4,"endTime":1984.04,"body":"That's where you're constantly competing with. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1979.4,"endTime":1984.04,"body":"So your motivation is just a little bit higher  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1984.04,"endTime":1989.92,"body":"to stay than it is to leave. And that's the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1984.04,"endTime":1989.92,"body":"tenuous, you know, kind of like razor thin  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1989.92,"endTime":1997.38,"body":"margins. Most businesses do not realize their "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1989.92,"endTime":1997.38,"body":"loyalty is built on that razor thin margin."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1997.38,"endTime":2004.64,"body":"And it might be 51% motivated to stay, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1997.38,"endTime":2004.64,"body":"49% motivated to leave. Exactly. And what your  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2004.64,"endTime":2010.12,"body":"example does really well is illustrate "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2004.64,"endTime":2010.12,"body":"why it's so important to. For companies  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2010.12,"endTime":2014.1,"body":"to understand and address the factors "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2010.12,"endTime":2014.1,"body":"that contribute to job dissatisfaction."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2014.1,"endTime":2015.04,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2015.04,"endTime":2021.88,"body":"Because what you're describing "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2015.04,"endTime":2021.88,"body":"there is motivation, to perform versus  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2021.88,"endTime":2024.82,"body":"the elements of job dissatisfaction "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2021.88,"endTime":2024.82,"body":"that are motivating me to leave."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2024.82,"endTime":2025.4,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2025.4,"endTime":2030.16,"body":"So if we can reduce the, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2025.4,"endTime":2030.16,"body":"instances of job dissatisfaction,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2030.16,"endTime":2037.88,"body":"then that hopefully shift from 51 49 to, you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2030.16,"endTime":2037.88,"body":"know, 60 40, eventually 70 30. Right. That  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2037.88,"endTime":2044.08,"body":"the more we can remove those factors "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2037.88,"endTime":2044.08,"body":"that are motivating people to leave,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2044.08,"endTime":2050.62,"body":"the more we can capitalize on the benefits "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2044.08,"endTime":2050.62,"body":"that come from long term employee retention."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2050.62,"endTime":2057.44,"body":"Exactly. And just going back to my friend "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2050.62,"endTime":2057.44,"body":"in the radio, his spark to provide is probably,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2057.44,"endTime":2063.36,"body":"you know, 55% of his motivation, which is why he "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2057.44,"endTime":2063.36,"body":"stays in these jobs that pay him pretty well but  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2063.36,"endTime":2069.36,"body":"bore him and don't challenge him, because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2063.36,"endTime":2069.36,"body":"the spark provide is probably 55% where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.36,"endTime":2075.32,"body":"the combination of the spark to achieve and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.36,"endTime":2075.32,"body":"the spark to stay, stay relevant is probably  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2075.32,"endTime":2082.68,"body":"just going to be at 45. And it's the idea of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2075.32,"endTime":2082.68,"body":"his employer can rely, I guess, on his long  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2082.68,"endTime":2088.82,"body":"term employment. As long as those percentages "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2082.68,"endTime":2088.82,"body":"hold. Yeah, but anything to start, to shift."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2088.82,"endTime":2092.64,"body":"Those numbers, you start "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2088.82,"endTime":2092.64,"body":"throwing in dissatisfaction like a man,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2092.64,"endTime":2097.64,"body":"a micromanager, or, ah, you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2092.64,"endTime":2097.64,"body":"know, a toxic team, member,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2098.2,"endTime":2103.88,"body":"or anything else along those lines, and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2098.2,"endTime":2103.88,"body":"that balance starts to shift. And as soon  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2103.88,"endTime":2108.56,"body":"as there's a tipping point and he becomes "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2103.88,"endTime":2108.56,"body":"more motivated to leave than he is to stay."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2108.56,"endTime":2113.88,"body":"Yeah. And that is, if there's anything "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2108.56,"endTime":2113.88,"body":"that someone takes away from this conversation,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2113.88,"endTime":2122.4,"body":"it's a. We really want to stress how tenuous, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2113.88,"endTime":2122.4,"body":"how razor thin those percentages of motivation  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2122.4,"endTime":2127.76,"body":"between leaving and staying for the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2122.4,"endTime":2127.76,"body":"vast majority of employees out there.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2127.76,"endTime":2132.88,"body":"If you're in a company and you're in a leadership "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2127.76,"endTime":2132.88,"body":"role and there are employees and you work for you,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2132.88,"endTime":2136.92,"body":"you might think that they're 100% motivated "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2132.88,"endTime":2136.92,"body":"to stay or hundred percent motivated to leave.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2136.92,"endTime":2143.8,"body":"They are not. A lot of them are probably "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2136.92,"endTime":2143.8,"body":"within a, ten point standard deviation of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2143.8,"endTime":2152.2,"body":"being able to go in anything. So that's why "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2143.8,"endTime":2152.2,"body":"news of companies concerned about. Concerned  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2152.2,"endTime":2156.8,"body":"about layoffs or the idea of just getting "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2152.2,"endTime":2156.8,"body":"one bad manager and you see an exodus,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2158.04,"endTime":2164.4,"body":"you are constantly cruising with a straw "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2158.04,"endTime":2164.4,"body":"to fall on the camel's back to break it."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2164.4,"endTime":2169.8,"body":"Yeah. And while we're on the topic, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2164.4,"endTime":2169.8,"body":"motivation is an incredibly important topic  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2169.8,"endTime":2176.4,"body":"to talk about. And one misconception that I want "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2169.8,"endTime":2176.4,"body":"to clear up is that sometimes we hear people say  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2176.4,"endTime":2184.16,"body":"things like, employees, are not motivated. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2176.4,"endTime":2184.16,"body":"Well, that's not true. People are always  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2184.16,"endTime":2189.2,"body":"motivated. It's just whether or not they're "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2184.16,"endTime":2189.2,"body":"motivated to work or motivated to do something  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2189.2,"endTime":2194.548,"body":"else. Right. Where is their motivation? "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2189.2,"endTime":2194.548,"body":"Where does their motivation lie? Yeah."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2194.548,"endTime":2199.28,"body":"Ah, yeah, well, I mean, like, when we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2194.548,"endTime":2199.28,"body":"go in and do, like, kind of follow. So again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2199.28,"endTime":2206.0,"body":"a catalyst for clients working with us, sometimes "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2199.28,"endTime":2206.0,"body":"it's, they've had a HR crisis and we're asked to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2206.0,"endTime":2210.52,"body":"kind of come in and do some kind of initial, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2206.0,"endTime":2210.52,"body":"why did things go bad? Why do things go wrong?  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2210.52,"endTime":2217.72,"body":"And this and that. And whenever we do. Part "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2210.52,"endTime":2217.72,"body":"of it is just making that, identification, of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2217.72,"endTime":2225.24,"body":"their motivations kind of clear. If the, what is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2217.72,"endTime":2225.24,"body":"provided to them, their sense of loyalty and your  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2225.24,"endTime":2230.44,"body":"sense that you can trust them. An employee, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2225.24,"endTime":2230.44,"body":"you know, in a company is really about goes  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2230.44,"endTime":2237.24,"body":"down to their motivations. Are they motivated "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2230.44,"endTime":2237.24,"body":"to give employee the benefit of the doubt,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2237.24,"endTime":2245.56,"body":"to be able to kind of be trustworthy? Or are they, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2237.24,"endTime":2245.56,"body":"concerned about being let go at a moment's notice?  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2245.56,"endTime":2252.12,"body":"So they start to kind of like plan or exit it out. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2245.56,"endTime":2252.12,"body":"They're using their work time to find other jobs  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2252.12,"endTime":2257.24,"body":"because they're. Because again, that's their job "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2252.12,"endTime":2257.24,"body":"security, in a sense, how quickly they can get  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2257.24,"endTime":2265.28,"body":"a new job. Sometimes it's the idea of what is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2257.24,"endTime":2265.28,"body":"motivating them is the motivation to be a good  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2265.28,"endTime":2274.44,"body":"employee at 51% and 49%, to kind of plan your exit "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2265.28,"endTime":2274.44,"body":"strategy or use your time effectively, or time  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2274.44,"endTime":2279.92,"body":"theft or whatever it is. If that's the case, the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2274.44,"endTime":2279.92,"body":"situation that you're in, then it's about trying  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2279.92,"endTime":2286.2,"body":"to go in there. And what is the infrastructural "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2279.92,"endTime":2286.2,"body":"realities of your policy practice and perception  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2286.2,"endTime":2291.88,"body":"that is keeping that razor thin margin? And when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2286.2,"endTime":2291.88,"body":"we go in, we try and say, how can we reduce the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2291.88,"endTime":2297.44,"body":"things that motivate people to be kind of 1ft "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2291.88,"endTime":2297.44,"body":"out the door? And that's a huge part of it,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2297.44,"endTime":2301.271,"body":"is just to realize that you're constantly "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2297.44,"endTime":2301.271,"body":"hovering around those regions and margins."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2301.271,"endTime":2304.0,"body":"Yeah. The topic of employee loyalty,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2304.0,"endTime":2311.34,"body":"I think, is, it's really fascinating to me "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2304.0,"endTime":2311.34,"body":"because we often, so often get it wrong."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2311.34,"endTime":2312.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2312.52,"endTime":2322.16,"body":"And if we can learn to think of it "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2312.52,"endTime":2322.16,"body":"not as an action, but as an outcome. Then we  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2322.16,"endTime":2329.2,"body":"can start to shift the way that we view "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2322.16,"endTime":2329.2,"body":"loyalty through the lens of motivation.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2329.2,"endTime":2339.6,"body":"How are we motivating people to stay? Loyalty "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2329.2,"endTime":2339.6,"body":"is not something that just happens. It's not a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2339.6,"endTime":2347.6,"body":"m. Spontaneous thing that when, that you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2339.6,"endTime":2347.6,"body":"automatically deserve as an employer and  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2347.6,"endTime":2355.82,"body":"people to show you loyalty, what you need to do "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2347.6,"endTime":2355.82,"body":"is earn it through matching their motivations."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2355.82,"endTime":2363.24,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2355.82,"endTime":2363.24,"body":"I think for a lot of middle level managers,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2363.24,"endTime":2369.16,"body":"business owners, HR professionals who are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2363.24,"endTime":2369.16,"body":"really kind of who this might have really  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2369.16,"endTime":2374.4,"body":"given them some, something to think about, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2369.16,"endTime":2374.4,"body":"something to reflect on. I think that our  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2374.4,"endTime":2380.92,"body":"best advice for you would be to really look into "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2374.4,"endTime":2380.92,"body":"our, ignited motivation eight sparks of purpose,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2380.92,"endTime":2386.48,"body":"program, or at least even the short essentials "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2380.92,"endTime":2386.48,"body":"course we have on our, training platform,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2386.48,"endTime":2393.96,"body":"roman three academy. here's what we'll "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2386.48,"endTime":2393.96,"body":"do. Let's put a discount code to that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2393.96,"endTime":2400.905,"body":"online on demand course, into our first "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2393.96,"endTime":2400.905,"body":"newsletter. That way, you know, kind of."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2400.905,"endTime":2406.04,"body":"Like, for the newsletter, because we, I "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2400.905,"endTime":2406.04,"body":"mean, we've got a, we talk about a lot of topics,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2406.04,"endTime":2412.56,"body":"and it's. Maybe you're tired of listening to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2406.04,"endTime":2412.56,"body":"us talk. You can just read our voices instead."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2412.56,"endTime":2417.54,"body":"Well, or actually more. There's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2412.56,"endTime":2417.54,"body":"lots of videos and everything in there, too."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2417.54,"endTime":2418.912,"body":"But no, I'm."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2418.912,"endTime":2423.44,"body":"Yeah. Because largely, what is an "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2418.912,"endTime":2423.44,"body":"important thing for organizations to really  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2423.44,"endTime":2434.52,"body":"consider, again, is there is not a, one answer "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2423.44,"endTime":2434.52,"body":"for all people, answer to loyalty and motivation  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2434.52,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"and purpose. There is really based on personal "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2434.52,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"preference. It's based on personal. On their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2446.24,"body":"background on, again, the thing, the priorities "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2446.24,"body":"they have in their lives. And if you understand,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2446.24,"endTime":2452.92,"body":"again, the eight sparks of purpose, you can kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2446.24,"endTime":2452.92,"body":"of, you know, be able to have a bit of different,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2452.92,"endTime":2456.96,"body":"approaches and, you know, be able to kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2452.92,"endTime":2456.96,"body":"of diversify your efforts to make sure  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2456.96,"endTime":2462.12,"body":"that you're capturing as much you possibly "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2456.96,"endTime":2462.12,"body":"can. But what our program really tries to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2462.12,"endTime":2468.44,"body":"promote as a really effective method is an "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2462.12,"endTime":2468.44,"body":"organizational wide initiative, to kind of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2468.44,"endTime":2474.08,"body":"help assess what are the sparks of motivation "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2468.44,"endTime":2474.08,"body":"that are motivating each individual employee  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2474.08,"endTime":2479.52,"body":"and then providing that information back to the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2474.08,"endTime":2479.52,"body":"company so they can be more tactical and realize,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2479.52,"endTime":2484.08,"body":"wow, we have a lot of employees here that are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2479.52,"endTime":2484.08,"body":"motivated by the spark of loyalty to others,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2484.08,"endTime":2487.56,"body":"for example. So maybe we need to do "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2484.08,"endTime":2487.56,"body":"more to kind of bring people together  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2487.56,"endTime":2492.421,"body":"and improve belonging and, you know, and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2487.56,"endTime":2492.421,"body":"improve these kind of interpersonal connections."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2492.421,"endTime":2497.32,"body":"And those social activities can "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2492.421,"endTime":2497.32,"body":"be a great process, for that. But also,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2497.32,"endTime":2500.16,"body":"you may discover that you do "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2497.32,"endTime":2500.16,"body":"a lot of social activities,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2500.16,"endTime":2504.72,"body":"but not many people are motivated by "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2500.16,"endTime":2504.72,"body":"that. Right, right. So it's aligning,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2504.72,"endTime":2511.36,"body":"it's a nice way of aligning your strategy with "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2504.72,"endTime":2511.36,"body":"what people, what actually motivates people."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2511.36,"endTime":2515.0,"body":"Yeah, exactly. Because, we really "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2511.36,"endTime":2515.0,"body":"do need to think different. We need to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2515.0,"endTime":2520.28,"body":"completely rethink what comes to mind with "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2515.0,"endTime":2520.28,"body":"employee loyalty. Because you're right,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2520.28,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"the 30 year career that I can rely on is a fable."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2526.52,"body":"It a unicorn now."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2526.52,"endTime":2534.08,"body":"It is. It really doesn't, doesn't exist "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2526.52,"endTime":2534.08,"body":"anymore. And again, job security and kind of,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2534.08,"endTime":2540.64,"body":"and stability is now understood as how quickly I "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2534.08,"endTime":2540.64,"body":"can jump into a new position. And that's how the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2540.64,"endTime":2545.899,"body":"majority of, especially, you know, the younger "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2540.64,"endTime":2545.899,"body":"generations. That's what they mean by stability."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2545.899,"endTime":2548.978,"body":"That's what we've taught "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2545.899,"endTime":2548.978,"body":"them. That's by our actions."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2548.978,"endTime":2548.991,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2548.991,"endTime":2552.6,"body":"We have shown people, we "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2548.991,"endTime":2552.6,"body":"have taught people how to treat us."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2552.6,"endTime":2554.0,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2554.0,"endTime":2555.98,"body":"As company, as employers."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2555.98,"endTime":2561.0,"body":"Yeah. So loyalty is something "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2555.98,"endTime":2561.0,"body":"that we need to realize that, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2561.0,"endTime":2567.12,"body":"it's something that we can't, that we can't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2561.0,"endTime":2567.12,"body":"just wish existed again. We've created we've  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2567.12,"endTime":2572.32,"body":"kind of made our bed. Now we have to lie in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2567.12,"endTime":2572.32,"body":"sort of thing. So we have to evolve with it.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2572.32,"endTime":2576.2,"body":"And I do think that connecting the things that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2572.32,"endTime":2576.2,"body":"people are loyal to, again, things like they're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2576.2,"endTime":2579.64,"body":"loyal to their career path, they're loyal "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2576.2,"endTime":2579.64,"body":"to their coworkers, they're loyal to kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2579.64,"endTime":2584.88,"body":"of good bosses and kind of good environments, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2579.64,"endTime":2584.88,"body":"and they're loyal to their quality of life."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2584.88,"endTime":2585.66,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2585.66,"endTime":2591.96,"body":"And what makes them loyalty to that is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2585.66,"endTime":2591.96,"body":"how much it sparks their motivation to provide,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2591.96,"endTime":2597.48,"body":"to accumulate, to be part of something, to be "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2591.96,"endTime":2597.48,"body":"loyal to others, to achieve, to stay relevant,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2597.48,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"to make a difference, and to improve "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2597.48,"endTime":2602.52,"body":"yourself. And that's going to be where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2602.52,"endTime":2606.64,"body":"you can actually have some tangible "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2602.52,"endTime":2606.64,"body":"tactical strategies that can really  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2606.64,"endTime":2610.92,"body":"start to address issues around employee "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2606.64,"endTime":2610.92,"body":"retention and employee attraction and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2610.92,"endTime":2615.7,"body":"really start to bring this new evolution "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2610.92,"endTime":2615.7,"body":"of what employee loyalty actually means."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2615.7,"endTime":2624.0,"body":"Yeah. I think the last thing that I want "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2615.7,"endTime":2624.0,"body":"to reiterate, is, sign up for our newsletter.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2624.0,"endTime":2630.12,"body":"if you're interested in this topic at all, we're "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2624.0,"endTime":2630.12,"body":"going to provide that discount code to the course,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2630.12,"endTime":2636.0,"body":"as just a, hey, check it out. Hopefully you find "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2630.12,"endTime":2636.0,"body":"something of value here. there will be tips,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2636.0,"endTime":2644.36,"body":"there'll be, videos, there will be articles, that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2636.0,"endTime":2644.36,"body":"you can, review in that newsletter. the other  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2644.36,"endTime":2652.04,"body":"piece is you can text us from in the show notes. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2644.36,"endTime":2652.04,"body":"There's an option to contact, us. Now, I got to be  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2652.04,"endTime":2656.68,"body":"clear, we don't actually have the ability to text "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2652.04,"endTime":2656.68,"body":"you back. The service doesn't provide that. So if  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2656.68,"endTime":2660.68,"body":"you want to reach out to us and you want to learn "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2656.68,"endTime":2660.68,"body":"more and you use that feature, please just give  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2660.68,"endTime":2667.04,"body":"us a way to contact you. That way we can actually "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2660.68,"endTime":2667.04,"body":"get in touch with you and have a conversation of,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2667.56,"endTime":2670.32,"body":"is this something that would make "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2667.56,"endTime":2670.32,"body":"a difference in your organization?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2679.24,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So just a very, very "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2679.24,"body":"quick recap. I really wanted to reiterate that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2680.68,"endTime":2686.8,"body":"what makes people loyal or the idea of loyalty "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2680.68,"endTime":2686.8,"body":"has shifted. So many people are working in what  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2686.8,"endTime":2691.2,"body":"we call quicksand jobs, again, a job that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2686.8,"endTime":2691.2,"body":"they stepped into when they were looking for  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2691.2,"endTime":2697.52,"body":"stability and became stuck in. And, I mean, we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2691.2,"endTime":2697.52,"body":"see this in everything from small businesses to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2697.52,"endTime":2701.04,"body":"corporate businesses to government employees. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2697.52,"endTime":2701.04,"body":"We see this a lot, actually, with government  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2701.04,"endTime":2705.08,"body":"employees who are like, I can't stand this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2701.04,"endTime":2705.08,"body":"job. But the pension I cannot walk away from."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2705.08,"endTime":2709.88,"body":"The benefits are great, the pension is "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2705.08,"endTime":2709.88,"body":"great, the pay is, competitive, and I've got,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2709.88,"endTime":2715.16,"body":"enough vacation time that I can spend time "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2709.88,"endTime":2715.16,"body":"with my family, so I'll suck it up and just,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2715.16,"endTime":2718.0,"body":"it's also why we end up seeing a "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2715.16,"endTime":2718.0,"body":"lot of complacency in government?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2718.0,"endTime":2723.84,"body":"Absolutely. Yes. That's a whole other "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2718.0,"endTime":2723.84,"body":"conversation. But this is kind of the reality  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2723.84,"endTime":2730.0,"body":"that we all have to just accept. We can't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2723.84,"endTime":2730.0,"body":"live in kind of the clouds that, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2730.0,"endTime":2735.56,"body":"the, the things that were normal in the late "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2730.0,"endTime":2735.56,"body":"eighties, early nineties is still kind of how  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2735.56,"endTime":2744.24,"body":"things operate. And that, you know, people, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2735.56,"endTime":2744.24,"body":"know, people need to be understood as what they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2744.24,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"are motivated by if you want to hold on to them. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2744.24,"endTime":2752.08,"body":"And this is something that is relevant from,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2756.12,"body":"again, government to corporate entities, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2752.08,"endTime":2756.12,"body":"even to, you know, like, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2756.12,"endTime":2761.52,"body":"small businesses and nonprofits. This affects "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2756.12,"endTime":2761.52,"body":"everybody, and there's no business that wouldn't  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2761.52,"endTime":2767.4,"body":"benefit from rethinking loyalty, having a better "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2761.52,"endTime":2767.4,"body":"understanding of what motivates employees and what  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2767.4,"endTime":2773.68,"body":"gives them a sense of meaning and purpose. All "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2767.4,"endTime":2773.68,"body":"right, great. So that about does it for us. For  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2773.68,"endTime":2778.24,"body":"a full archive of the podcast and access the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2773.68,"endTime":2778.24,"body":"video version hosted on our YouTube channel,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2778.24,"endTime":2784.64,"body":"visit www.roman3.ca/podcast thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2778.24,"endTime":2784.64,"body":"[ANNOUNCER]: For more information on topics like  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2784.64,"endTime":2790.72,"body":"these, don't forget to visit us at www.roman3.ca. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2784.64,"endTime":2790.72,"body":"Side effects of this podcast may include improved  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2790.72,"endTime":2795.32,"body":"retention, high productivity, increased market "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2790.72,"endTime":2795.32,"body":"share, employees breaking out in spontaneous  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2795.32,"endTime":2802.44,"body":"dance, dry mouth, a version of the sound of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2795.32,"endTime":2802.44,"body":"James voice desire to find a better podcast..."}]}