{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Breaking down everyday workplace "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":0.0,"endTime":5.4,"body":"issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"not just the obvious symptom. "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":5.4,"endTime":10.16,"body":"Our hosts, James and Coby."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":10.16,"endTime":11.98,"body":"Did we lose a patient?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":11.98,"endTime":14.96,"body":"No, that's just my lunch."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.96,"endTime":22.48,"body":"Hey, thanks for joining us. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":14.96,"endTime":22.48,"body":"I'm Coby, he's James. And let's get  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":22.48,"endTime":29.96,"body":"started with a question. What is some "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":22.48,"endTime":29.96,"body":"practical psychology for the workplace?"},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":30.48,"endTime":38.08,"body":"Yeah, so we did one of these back in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":30.48,"endTime":38.08,"body":"season two, where we looked at a few pieces of,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":38.08,"endTime":46.36,"body":"psychology that impact our workplaces. And really "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":38.08,"endTime":46.36,"body":"understanding some of these practical psychology,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":46.36,"endTime":51.44,"body":"principles can make a huge difference in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":46.36,"endTime":51.44,"body":"how we interact with our teams, our peers,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":51.44,"endTime":58.04,"body":"and our employees. And so, because this is "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":51.44,"endTime":58.04,"body":"really more of Kobe's domain of expertise,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":58.04,"endTime":64.28,"body":"I'm going to be asking him to explain three "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":58.04,"endTime":64.28,"body":"different psychological theories or principles.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":64.28,"endTime":72.56,"body":"so, Coby, you're on the hot seat. Ah, the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":64.28,"endTime":72.56,"body":"first one that I want to ask you about is  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":72.56,"endTime":80.52,"body":"the actual definition and differences between "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":72.56,"endTime":80.52,"body":"introversion and extroversion. just as a little  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":80.52,"endTime":85.12,"body":"bit of a preface, Although I think the vast "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":80.52,"endTime":85.12,"body":"majority of people are going to be familiar  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":85.12,"endTime":90.24,"body":"with the actual terms, I think there's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":85.12,"endTime":90.24,"body":"a lot of misinformation about what they  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":90.24,"endTime":94.84,"body":"actually are. So can you walk us through "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":90.24,"endTime":94.84,"body":"what extroversion and introversion are?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":94.84,"endTime":102.92,"body":"When it comes to introversion and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":94.84,"endTime":102.92,"body":"extroversion, I see this all the time. People  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":102.92,"endTime":109.88,"body":"misunderstanding what it actually means. Most "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":102.92,"endTime":109.88,"body":"people think of introversion and extroversion  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":109.88,"endTime":117.4,"body":"as what we call, social preferences. People that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":109.88,"endTime":117.4,"body":"are introverted are shy. They prefer not to be  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":117.4,"endTime":124.72,"body":"out in crowds. They prefer not to be around a lot "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":117.4,"endTime":124.72,"body":"of people. It's more of a. It's choosing to not,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":124.72,"endTime":131.84,"body":"you know, be overly social to and to kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":124.72,"endTime":131.84,"body":"be overly active in their social life. Where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":131.84,"endTime":137.0,"body":"extraversion is obviously the opposite, where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":131.84,"endTime":137.0,"body":"people think that it's about this desire to be  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":137.0,"endTime":143.68,"body":"the life of the party, the big attention grabber "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":137.0,"endTime":143.68,"body":"that super outgoing and super charismatic and just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":143.68,"endTime":148.28,"body":"like, you know, anywhere there's something going "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":143.68,"endTime":148.28,"body":"on, they will to be there. It's a preference to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":148.28,"endTime":155.24,"body":"kind of be in the mix of it all the time. And, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":148.28,"endTime":155.24,"body":"know, just being you, this huge social butterfly.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":155.24,"endTime":161.12,"body":"And the thing is, is that if that's what people. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":155.24,"endTime":161.12,"body":"If that's what you listening to this thinks,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.12,"endTime":167.76,"body":"you're wrong. That's not what it is at all. What "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":161.12,"endTime":167.76,"body":"introversion and extroversion are actually all  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":167.76,"endTime":176.2,"body":"about. It's actually about your kind of energy "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":167.76,"endTime":176.2,"body":"source. It's like your social battery charging  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":176.2,"endTime":186.84,"body":"point. Because introversion is about what gives "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":176.2,"endTime":186.84,"body":"you social energy and what gives you kind of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":186.84,"endTime":195.96,"body":"mental energy and what takes it away. Because if "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":186.84,"endTime":195.96,"body":"you're an introvert, then Being alone or having.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":195.96,"endTime":203.48,"body":"Or being with kind of a small group of trusted "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":195.96,"endTime":203.48,"body":"people that don't require a lot of almost like  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":203.48,"endTime":211.84,"body":"social use charges your battery. You're, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":203.48,"endTime":211.84,"body":"being alone, kind of having some solitude, not  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":211.84,"endTime":219.76,"body":"requiring a lot out of your, you know, out of you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":211.84,"endTime":219.76,"body":"and you kind of in the use of your social muscles  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":219.76,"endTime":226.32,"body":"is what fill your battery up. But then when you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":219.76,"endTime":226.32,"body":"in situations where it does require you to be,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":226.32,"endTime":231.84,"body":"you know, using your social muscles and kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":226.32,"endTime":231.84,"body":"being involved in more people and they re trying  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":231.84,"endTime":236.48,"body":"to balance social interactions and all the kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":231.84,"endTime":236.48,"body":"of complexities to kind of go with interpersonal  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":236.48,"endTime":243.88,"body":"communications and connections that drains your "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":236.48,"endTime":243.88,"body":"battery. M Whereas extroversion is the opposite.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":243.88,"endTime":251.04,"body":"It's when being with others is what charges "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":243.88,"endTime":251.04,"body":"you up. You're feeding off the social energy  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":251.04,"endTime":255.92,"body":"of others and you know, being around them, is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":251.04,"endTime":255.92,"body":"what gives you that extra boost of energy and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":255.92,"endTime":260.56,"body":"you feel more alive and you feel more charged "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":255.92,"endTime":260.56,"body":"and it becomes very kind of like, know, like  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":261.16,"endTime":269.32,"body":"sustaining that sense of energy and kind of just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":261.16,"endTime":269.32,"body":"that social muscle presence. Whereas being alone,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":269.32,"endTime":275.52,"body":"feeling more isolated, feeling kind of more "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":269.32,"endTime":275.52,"body":"apart from people, it's kind of like that the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":275.52,"endTime":281.12,"body":"battery starts to drain because it's not you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":275.52,"endTime":281.12,"body":"being recharged. You're not using your social  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":281.12,"endTime":286.2,"body":"muscles enough. That ends up kind of kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":281.12,"endTime":286.2,"body":"drying you out and you end up feeling like,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":286.2,"endTime":292.0,"body":"you know, you just, you are under stimulated and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":286.2,"endTime":292.0,"body":"so you start to dwindle a bit. And that's really  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":292.0,"endTime":297.08,"body":"kind of stimulation piece is kind of a good way to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":292.0,"endTime":297.08,"body":"understand it. Between, you know, overstimulation  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":297.08,"endTime":301.44,"body":"with introverts can drain their batteries where "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":297.08,"endTime":301.44,"body":"under stimulation for extroverts can drain their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":301.44,"endTime":308.44,"body":"batteries. And most people really don't think "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":301.44,"endTime":308.44,"body":"of it as energy sources. They really do think  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":308.44,"endTime":316.16,"body":"of it as a preference with social behavior. And "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":308.44,"endTime":316.16,"body":"that misconception, can create a lot of unfair  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":316.68,"endTime":324.16,"body":"judgment and unfair. Kind of like putting "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":316.68,"endTime":324.16,"body":"people implying people are breaking social."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":324.16,"endTime":329.0,"body":"It ends up pigeonholing people into "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":324.16,"endTime":329.0,"body":"or putting people into a box that they don't  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":329.0,"endTime":339.6,"body":"actually fit in. so it's funny anybody with "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":329.0,"endTime":339.6,"body":"how introversion and extroversion is commonly  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":339.6,"endTime":347.08,"body":"thought of, anybody meeting me randomly would "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":339.6,"endTime":347.08,"body":"probably just assume I'm an extrovert. I am loud,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":347.08,"endTime":355.44,"body":"I am a fairly outgoing. I like to talk. All "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":347.08,"endTime":355.44,"body":"three of those things are huge revelations,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":355.44,"endTime":363.48,"body":"I'm sure. But what's funny is I've done a lot of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":355.44,"endTime":363.48,"body":"like over the years I've taken a lot of different  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":363.48,"endTime":371.32,"body":"self, assessments, Myers Briggs assessments. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":363.48,"endTime":371.32,"body":"every time I land right on the line of hovering  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":371.32,"endTime":377.64,"body":"between introversion and extroversion. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":371.32,"endTime":377.64,"body":"Because I personally I enjoy being out  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":377.64,"endTime":385.6,"body":"and around people for a limited amount of time. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":377.64,"endTime":385.6,"body":"And at first that will jazz me up. I'll be out,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":385.6,"endTime":393.76,"body":"I'll be talking to people, I'll be energetic. But "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":385.6,"endTime":393.76,"body":"if I'm doing that too long, it's exhausting. And  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":393.76,"endTime":400.04,"body":"the same is true for like. So I kind of. And "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":393.76,"endTime":400.04,"body":"I think a lot of people are probably this way  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":400.04,"endTime":405.56,"body":"where it's an element of both that gives them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":400.04,"endTime":405.56,"body":"energy. And maybe it's more one than the other  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":405.56,"endTime":413.12,"body":"for some. But I think the common understanding and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":405.56,"endTime":413.12,"body":"I think the reason why I wanted to ask about this  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":413.12,"endTime":421.48,"body":"in terms of how does this relate to the workplace? "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":413.12,"endTime":421.48,"body":"is because if we are thinking about it in terms,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":422.68,"endTime":428.12,"body":"if we're not thinking about it in terms of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":422.68,"endTime":428.12,"body":"people's energy sources about if we're not  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":428.12,"endTime":435.32,"body":"taking into consideration how people recharge "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":428.12,"endTime":435.32,"body":"their batteries or don't, then we can put  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":435.32,"endTime":440.0,"body":"people in a situation where they're not able to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":435.32,"endTime":440.0,"body":"perform at their best. If you put a person who  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":440.0,"endTime":447.92,"body":"is actually introverted, who needs a bit of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":440.0,"endTime":447.92,"body":"solitude or you know, less stimulation, in a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":447.92,"endTime":453.96,"body":"very overstimulating environment, they're going to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":447.92,"endTime":453.96,"body":"not be able to perform in this necessarily in the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":453.96,"endTime":460.96,"body":"same way that they could if the environment was "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":453.96,"endTime":460.96,"body":"tailored to how they actually need that to happen."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":460.96,"endTime":465.12,"body":"Yeah, well. And I mean one of the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":460.96,"endTime":465.12,"body":"things that was most, not enough people were  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":465.12,"endTime":472.24,"body":"really talking about in the right way when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":465.12,"endTime":472.24,"body":"working for home became the norm for many,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":472.24,"endTime":486.16,"body":"many people was introverts who in a lot of ways "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":472.24,"endTime":486.16,"body":"are a bit at a disadvantage in very busy active  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":486.16,"endTime":493.72,"body":"workplaces because just being at work, kind of the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":486.16,"endTime":493.72,"body":"bare minimum of work is draining their batteries.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":493.72,"endTime":501.12,"body":"So when they are, were allowed to kind of work "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":493.72,"endTime":501.12,"body":"more from home and removing that again the use  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":501.12,"endTime":508.88,"body":"of their social muscles, it did amazing things for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":501.12,"endTime":508.88,"body":"a lot of people. Their productivity skyrocketed,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":508.88,"endTime":514.16,"body":"their, their sustained productivity, their "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":508.88,"endTime":514.16,"body":"performance and all that kind of stuff what's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":514.16,"endTime":521.56,"body":"great. But at the same time it also was a, a big "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":514.16,"endTime":521.56,"body":"switch for people when a lot of the extroverts  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":521.56,"endTime":528.0,"body":"who thrived in those highly kind of like not "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":521.56,"endTime":528.0,"body":"necessarily chaotic but very involved, very active  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":528.0,"endTime":534.64,"body":"workplaces were kind of put into isolation. A lot "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":528.0,"endTime":534.64,"body":"of their performance really dropped because they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":534.64,"endTime":541.84,"body":"were craving that again the use of those social "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":534.64,"endTime":541.84,"body":"muscles in that stimulation piece. And it was one  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":541.84,"endTime":550.32,"body":"of those things where kind of the problem that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":541.84,"endTime":550.32,"body":"kind of comes up when we don't view introversion  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":550.32,"endTime":557.04,"body":"and extroversion as energy sources, review them "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":550.32,"endTime":557.04,"body":"as social preferences is that we don't realize,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":557.04,"endTime":561.48,"body":"like you say, that we're putting people at "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":557.04,"endTime":561.48,"body":"disadvantages by expecting everyone to thrive in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":561.48,"endTime":567.52,"body":"the same environment. And that is a big piece of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":561.48,"endTime":567.52,"body":"like you know, when we are saying that, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":567.52,"endTime":572.36,"body":"when we give people the idea of flexible working "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":567.52,"endTime":572.36,"body":"locations. So for industries and businesses that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":572.36,"endTime":578.32,"body":"you can provide, you know, more flexibility in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":572.36,"endTime":578.32,"body":"when and where people work. Allowing people to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.32,"endTime":583.04,"body":"kind of build a schedule that not just works with "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":578.32,"endTime":583.04,"body":"their like, you know, their commitments and their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":583.04,"endTime":588.64,"body":"responsibilities, but also kind of works with "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":583.04,"endTime":588.64,"body":"their energy levels or their energy sources can  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":588.64,"endTime":594.64,"body":"be a more a better way to give people what they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":588.64,"endTime":594.64,"body":"need to get the most out of them. And I mean,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":594.64,"endTime":597.84,"body":"and like I said, you're right. When you kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":594.64,"endTime":597.84,"body":"say a lot of people are kind of in the middle,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":597.84,"endTime":604.8,"body":"there is kind of a middle term. I don't really "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":597.84,"endTime":604.8,"body":"love it. It's called like an ambivert. It's not,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":604.8,"endTime":610.84,"body":"I don't know if I'm going toa mention it, but I'm "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":604.8,"endTime":610.84,"body":"not really confident to kind of say or say that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":611.4,"endTime":617.72,"body":"it's a legit thing that people, you know, is kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":611.4,"endTime":617.72,"body":"of that middle road. Because in reality it's that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":617.72,"endTime":623.0,"body":"you know, very few people are 100% extroverts. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":617.72,"endTime":623.0,"body":"Right. And very few 100% introvert. That there  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":623.0,"endTime":631.0,"body":"is that blend and some situations can, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":623.0,"endTime":631.0,"body":"you know, they, they're introvert place might be  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":631.0,"endTime":636.16,"body":"the one driving the bus and other times it might "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":631.0,"endTime":636.16,"body":"be their extrovert. And again it is kind of that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":636.16,"endTime":644.84,"body":"balance. But realizing that sometimes your social "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":636.16,"endTime":644.84,"body":"muscles fuel themselves by being around people and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":644.84,"endTime":650.76,"body":"other times it drains you and kind of getting to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":644.84,"endTime":650.76,"body":"know yourself. And even if you think about this,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":650.76,"endTime":656.08,"body":"you know, we're not. The intent of this episode "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":650.76,"endTime":656.08,"body":"is for kind of, for you listening to have a bit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":656.08,"endTime":660.92,"body":"of better understanding of those around you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":656.08,"endTime":660.92,"body":"and not necessarily about helping you better  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":660.92,"endTime":665.04,"body":"understand yourself but if you are someone "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":660.92,"endTime":665.04,"body":"that is hearing this for the first time,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":665.04,"endTime":670.32,"body":"that it is about your energy levels, knowing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":665.04,"endTime":670.32,"body":"when and where you feel more charged and when  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":670.32,"endTime":677.44,"body":"and where you feel more depleted is helpful "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":670.32,"endTime":677.44,"body":"to kind of know about your optimization of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":677.44,"endTime":681.28,"body":"what environments are going to give you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":677.44,"endTime":681.28,"body":"the best opportunities for performance."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":681.28,"endTime":685.68,"body":"And more about "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":681.28,"endTime":685.68,"body":"yourself is always a good thing."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":685.68,"endTime":686.56,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":686.56,"endTime":690.72,"body":"Yeah. and as important, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":686.56,"endTime":690.72,"body":"yeah I really want to focus more  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":690.72,"endTime":698.72,"body":"on the leader or the manage like "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":690.72,"endTime":698.72,"body":"as a leader, how does knowing this  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":698.72,"endTime":703.06,"body":"actually make a difference for somebody in "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":698.72,"endTime":703.06,"body":"a leadership or in a management position?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":703.06,"endTime":713.84,"body":"Well, because again we equating things "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":703.06,"endTime":713.84,"body":"like shyness or outgoingness to people to being  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":713.84,"endTime":720.28,"body":"the all you need to know about somebody's kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":713.84,"endTime":720.28,"body":"like performance or what environments that they're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":720.28,"endTime":726.92,"body":"going to work in is a bit, I don't know, it's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":720.28,"endTime":726.92,"body":"limiting. You're not, you're really not getting  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":726.92,"endTime":733.76,"body":"the whole picture because, I mean, you may. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":726.92,"endTime":733.76,"body":"Because you just have to be aware of kind of.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":733.76,"endTime":740.84,"body":"Of the assumptions you're probably making about "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":733.76,"endTime":740.84,"body":"those that you work with. Because like, you, there  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":740.84,"endTime":748.68,"body":"are some very outgoing, very, you know, like, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":740.84,"endTime":748.68,"body":"know, like, charismatic and very like, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":748.68,"endTime":756.72,"body":"like involved life of a party. People that are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":748.68,"endTime":756.72,"body":"still having their batteries drained by being that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":756.72,"endTime":763.96,"body":"person. So expecting that just because somebody is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":756.72,"endTime":763.96,"body":"good, you know, in some situations or for a short  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":763.96,"endTime":769.36,"body":"amount of time, that they're gonna thrive all the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":763.96,"endTime":769.36,"body":"time in that kind of environment is a bit of an  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":769.36,"endTime":774.52,"body":"assumption that you might be making about people. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":769.36,"endTime":774.52,"body":"Or assuming that this. Because someone might be a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":774.52,"endTime":779.6,"body":"little bit more reserved, a little bit more kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":774.52,"endTime":779.6,"body":"of laid back and not necessarily any kind of step  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":779.6,"endTime":787.24,"body":"in front of a group doesn't mean that they're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":779.6,"endTime":787.24,"body":"still not really being a good or really would  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":787.24,"endTime":797.4,"body":"not thrive in a more active environment. Because "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":787.24,"endTime":797.4,"body":"again, a good example of a outgoing introvert is  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":797.4,"endTime":802.72,"body":"you. So you know that you can carry that life of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":797.4,"endTime":802.72,"body":"a party for a set amount of time, but then you're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":802.72,"endTime":807.72,"body":"going to need to kind of like know, call it early "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":802.72,"endTime":807.72,"body":"and then go recharge your batteries. Whereas there  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":807.72,"endTime":815.04,"body":"are some who might not want to be in front of the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":807.72,"endTime":815.04,"body":"group, but are just so jazzed up by being involved  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":815.04,"endTime":819.96,"body":"in the group that they could do it forever "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":815.04,"endTime":819.96,"body":"because it is totally filling their batteries.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":819.96,"endTime":823.3,"body":"They're just not the one that you're looking at. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":819.96,"endTime":823.3,"body":"Right. They're not the one that's drawing your."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":823.3,"endTime":825.0,"body":"They're not the center of her attention."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":825.0,"endTime":830.04,"body":"Exactly. So when we talk about "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":825.0,"endTime":830.04,"body":"sustained environments or environments  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":830.04,"endTime":835.4,"body":"that allow people to kind of have their best "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":830.04,"endTime":835.4,"body":"performance, the assumption that just because  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":835.4,"endTime":841.84,"body":"someone's outgoing or, or someone is reserved "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":835.4,"endTime":841.84,"body":"doesn't mean that you can totally get what their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":841.84,"endTime":847.2,"body":"environment is. Part of it is asking them, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":841.84,"endTime":847.2,"body":"know, the question, talking to them, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":847.2,"endTime":853.0,"body":"not just giving people opportunities or putting "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":847.2,"endTime":853.0,"body":"them in a situation based on your assumptions,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":853.0,"endTime":858.88,"body":"but actually making sure that you get to know the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":853.0,"endTime":858.88,"body":"people around you so you're actually optimizing,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":858.88,"endTime":862.88,"body":"what they feel is the best environments for "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":858.88,"endTime":862.88,"body":"them, but also when it comes to things like you,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":862.88,"endTime":869.72,"body":"when you have opportunities to kind of assign work "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":862.88,"endTime":869.72,"body":"locations or work tasks, again, try and tailor  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":869.72,"endTime":876.84,"body":"it to what they actually do need, not what you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":869.72,"endTime":876.84,"body":"assuming based on behavior that they've shown you."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":876.84,"endTime":881.24,"body":"Just because somebody's outgoing "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":876.84,"endTime":881.24,"body":"doesn't mean that they will necessarily  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":881.24,"endTime":889.76,"body":"thrive. Dealing with customers all day, every "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":881.24,"endTime":889.76,"body":"day, that could be draining them and actually  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":889.76,"endTime":897.4,"body":"causing them to their performance to suffer "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":889.76,"endTime":897.4,"body":"if they aren't given a chance to recharge. So  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":897.4,"endTime":907.04,"body":"not looking at the behavior of somebody's loud, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":897.4,"endTime":907.04,"body":"so they're outgoing and they're extrovert. Just  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":907.04,"endTime":911.92,"body":"recognizing that people need different. I mean "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":907.04,"endTime":911.92,"body":"we talk about this in a lot of different ways  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":911.92,"endTime":919.84,"body":"that we really need to tailor our workplaces "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":911.92,"endTime":919.84,"body":"as much as we can to allow individuals to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":919.84,"endTime":925.48,"body":"thrive. Right. And so the more we understand the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":919.84,"endTime":925.48,"body":"individuals who make up our teams, I think the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":925.48,"endTime":930.72,"body":"better we will be able as leaders to actually "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":925.48,"endTime":930.72,"body":"get the performance out of them that we need."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":930.72,"endTime":935.2,"body":"Absolutely. and what's great is that if "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":930.72,"endTime":935.2,"body":"you don't have a mechanism for assessing people's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":935.2,"endTime":940.8,"body":"energy levels, even though Myers Briggs does have "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":935.2,"endTime":940.8,"body":"some cool toys out there and some cool assessment  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":940.8,"endTime":944.6,"body":"pieces that can actually help you kind of get to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":940.8,"endTime":944.6,"body":"the heart of it. If you're into doing those kinds  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":944.6,"endTime":948.88,"body":"of assessment pieces, if you are into that, that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":944.6,"endTime":948.88,"body":"might not be a bad way to go. But even just kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":948.88,"endTime":953.6,"body":"of, you know, if you're in a workplace, let's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":948.88,"endTime":953.6,"body":"say you're in a retail environment and you're,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":953.6,"endTime":957.16,"body":"and you've got a fairly large team and you've "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":953.6,"endTime":957.16,"body":"always kind of been putting like you say,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":957.16,"endTime":961.24,"body":"the most outgoing people in the most "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":957.16,"endTime":961.24,"body":"customer service positions and the most,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":961.76,"endTime":969.04,"body":"the most quiet or shy people in the most, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":961.76,"endTime":969.04,"body":"know, like solo things or solo positions that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":969.04,"endTime":975.76,"body":"might work, but it might not hurt to talk to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":969.04,"endTime":975.76,"body":"the team and kind of say let's start moving  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":975.76,"endTime":980.8,"body":"people around and trying different people out in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":975.76,"endTime":980.8,"body":"different roles to kind of see. Because again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":980.8,"endTime":986.12,"body":"who's great the first couple hours is not "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":980.8,"endTime":986.12,"body":"necessarily who's great for the whole day."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":986.12,"endTime":989.0,"body":"Well, and if you can have "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":986.12,"endTime":989.0,"body":"somebody who's great for a couple hours,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":989.0,"endTime":994.04,"body":"then give them a chance to recharge and allow "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":989.0,"endTime":994.04,"body":"them to be great again later. Right? Yeah,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":994.04,"endTime":997.36,"body":"exactly. Rather than a diminishing "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":994.04,"endTime":997.36,"body":"return on their productivity."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":997.36,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"And that's just it is trying "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":997.36,"endTime":1002.0,"body":"to realize that there's a complexity  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1008.6,"body":"to people and just because it might appear that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1008.6,"body":"there's an obvious no brainer fit for somebody  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1014.96,"body":"that obvious no brainer fit, whether it's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1008.6,"endTime":1014.96,"body":"a solitary job for someone that's shy or a,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1014.96,"endTime":1020.6,"body":"kind of a social job for someone that's very "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1014.96,"endTime":1020.6,"body":"outgoing, might have a diminishing return if  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1020.6,"endTime":1026.12,"body":"you're not fully realizing that, you know, maybe "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1020.6,"endTime":1026.12,"body":"they're really good for a short amount of time,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1026.12,"endTime":1032.44,"body":"but in prolonged experiences it's going to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1026.12,"endTime":1032.44,"body":"Dwindle. So switching things up or trying  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1032.44,"endTime":1038.16,"body":"things out in different roles, again're if you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1032.44,"endTime":1038.16,"body":"actively trying to get the best of your people,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1038.16,"endTime":1041.268,"body":"not acting on assumptions is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1038.16,"endTime":1041.268,"body":"probably going to be the best."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1041.268,"endTime":1042.04,"body":"To know your people."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1042.04,"endTime":1045.04,"body":"Yeah, it's going toa be the best "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1042.04,"endTime":1045.04,"body":"way to optimize them and try and figure  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1045.04,"endTime":1050.08,"body":"out and let them work with you for how "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1045.04,"endTime":1050.08,"body":"you can get the best work out of them."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1050.08,"endTime":1054.4,"body":"All right, so anything else you want "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1050.08,"endTime":1054.4,"body":"to say on introversion versus Extroversion?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1054.4,"endTime":1062.12,"body":"No. I do hope that people are, this is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1054.4,"endTime":1062.12,"body":"helpful for folks because again, if you're just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1062.12,"endTime":1065.52,"body":"learning about hearing about this for the first "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1062.12,"endTime":1065.52,"body":"time for yourself, it might give you you a bit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1065.52,"endTime":1073.16,"body":"of an aha moment. But I really do hope that just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1065.52,"endTime":1073.16,"body":"realizing that it's about energy and stimulation."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1073.16,"endTime":1078.84,"body":"Cool. All right, so the next "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1073.16,"endTime":1078.84,"body":"one that I want to ask you about is  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1079.68,"endTime":1087.28,"body":"actually the curse of knowledge, which sounds "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1079.68,"endTime":1087.28,"body":"really cool. or so sometimes referred to as the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1087.28,"endTime":1094.92,"body":"curse of expertise as well. So Coby, what is the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1087.28,"endTime":1094.92,"body":"curse of knowledge? And is knowledge a bad thing?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1094.92,"endTime":1101.32,"body":"Okay, so. So this is a cool one. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1094.92,"endTime":1101.32,"body":"It's a cognitive bias. It's a bias where  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1101.32,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"we incorrectly assume that everybody knows as "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1101.32,"endTime":1108.92,"body":"much as we do on kind of a given topic that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1114.08,"body":"when we know something, it can be hard "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1108.92,"endTime":1114.08,"body":"to imagine what it would be like not  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1114.08,"endTime":1119.32,"body":"knowing that piece of information. So in our "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1114.08,"endTime":1119.32,"body":"engagements and communication with other people,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1119.32,"endTime":1126.6,"body":"we kind of start from where we think the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1119.32,"endTime":1126.6,"body":"most natural introduction to an idea is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1126.6,"endTime":1133.28,"body":"which may be levels above where someone actually "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1126.6,"endTime":1133.28,"body":"is or knowing or stuff that we assume is common  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.28,"endTime":1138.98,"body":"knowledge is a much higher threshold than what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1133.28,"endTime":1138.98,"body":"the average person would feel common knowledge is."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1138.98,"endTime":1149.12,"body":"This sounds like every other, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1138.98,"endTime":1149.12,"body":"university professor I had. Not going to lie."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1149.12,"endTime":1156.48,"body":"Yeah, yeah, there's a bit of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1149.12,"endTime":1156.48,"body":"that. yeah, the curse of knowledge can  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1156.48,"endTime":1165.32,"body":"be a detriment in the education sector for sure "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1156.48,"endTime":1165.32,"body":"when you've got highly skilled, highly educated,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1165.32,"endTime":1177.44,"body":"specialized experts who are responsible to educate "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1165.32,"endTime":1177.44,"body":"entry level or even remedial level, kind of,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1177.44,"endTime":1186.0,"body":"knowledge bases. and.yeah'ugh. And I'm gonna get "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1177.44,"endTime":1186.0,"body":"on my little soapbox here. So in the Last episode  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1187.04,"endTime":1192.72,"body":"or, episode two ago we talked about, Yeah, I kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1187.04,"endTime":1192.72,"body":"of went off on the post secondary institutions."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1192.72,"endTime":1194.94,"body":"Oh yeah. I should "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1192.72,"endTime":1194.94,"body":"have kept my mouth shut."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1194.94,"endTime":1198.12,"body":"Yeah. So I'll just say this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1194.94,"endTime":1198.12,"body":"and then I promise I'll move on."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1198.12,"endTime":1200.0,"body":"All right. I'll shut you down."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1207.72,"body":"Okay, good. It is something that this is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1207.72,"body":"abundant, in universities and colleges because  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1207.72,"endTime":1217.32,"body":"what we try and do is we kind of try and take an "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1207.72,"endTime":1217.32,"body":"expert and then try to very ineffectively make  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1217.32,"endTime":1224.92,"body":"them an educator. An educator is a specific "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1217.32,"endTime":1224.92,"body":"specialization that you can't just weekend  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1224.92,"endTime":1232.0,"body":"course your way into. So a lot of, there's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1224.92,"endTime":1232.0,"body":"a lot of awful adult education practices out  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"there where experts who ah, are living with "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1232.0,"endTime":1238.04,"body":"the curse of knowledge are just blowing it  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1244.64,"body":"as educators because that's not what they're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1244.64,"body":"specializing in. So realizing that you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1244.64,"endTime":1251.92,"body":"you can't just make anybody an educator. The "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1244.64,"endTime":1251.92,"body":"educators is a special calling that you and just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1251.92,"endTime":1255.4,"body":"becoming because you're an expert and something "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1251.92,"endTime":1255.4,"body":"doesn't mean that information will pass through.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1255.4,"endTime":1261.2,"body":"Osmosis does have to be this effective knowledge "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1255.4,"endTime":1261.2,"body":"transfer which can only really come for someone  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1261.2,"endTime":1267.72,"body":"skilled and trained as an educator. So there is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1261.2,"endTime":1267.72,"body":"a bit that curse of knowledge does live there."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1267.72,"endTime":1276.4,"body":"Yeah. So let's pull it back to the "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1267.72,"endTime":1276.4,"body":"workplace because I do unfortunately I see this  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1276.4,"endTime":1281.2,"body":"and I've seen it like I see it with clients. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1276.4,"endTime":1281.2,"body":"I see it with when we deliver training. I see  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1281.2,"endTime":1288.52,"body":"it when we work with companies to help them "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1281.2,"endTime":1288.52,"body":"kind of improve their operational efficiency.  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1289.84,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"This happen, this seems to me to happen frequently "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1289.84,"endTime":1298.76,"body":"when we have like a deep technical understanding  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1298.76,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"or knowledge of the job which ends up getting "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1298.76,"endTime":1305.36,"body":"us promoted into a leadership or management  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1305.36,"endTime":1309.92,"body":"position because we've done the job really, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1305.36,"endTime":1309.92,"body":"really well. So obviously we want to put  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1309.92,"endTime":1313.8,"body":"that person in a position of leadership "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1309.92,"endTime":1313.8,"body":"to help other people do the job really,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1313.8,"endTime":1323.08,"body":"really well. Logical. But I think there's some "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1313.8,"endTime":1323.08,"body":"logical fallacies in there as well. And so  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1323.08,"endTime":1328.64,"body":"can you talk about the curse of knowledge "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1323.08,"endTime":1328.64,"body":"from kind of that leadership perspective?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1336.04,"body":"Absolutely, yes. This is probably outside "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1328.64,"endTime":1336.04,"body":"of the post secondary little soapbox that I would  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1336.04,"endTime":1344.4,"body":"go back on in a moment's not as I could. they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1336.04,"endTime":1344.4,"body":"went resist. Right. in the role of management  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1344.4,"endTime":1350.48,"body":"and leadership it's probably the second most "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1344.4,"endTime":1350.48,"body":"abundant situation for curse of knowledge  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1350.48,"endTime":1357.56,"body":"because again technical expertise is where a lot "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1350.48,"endTime":1357.56,"body":"of the curse of knowledge bias really kind of has  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1357.56,"endTime":1365.36,"body":"the greatest impact because it is this idea of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1357.56,"endTime":1365.36,"body":"I know this so well I can't remember what it's  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1365.36,"endTime":1374.4,"body":"like to not have this high level of expertise. so "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1365.36,"endTime":1374.4,"body":"the fact that you, my employee or my trainee or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1374.4,"endTime":1382.52,"body":"my apprentice or whatever it is can't function at "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1374.4,"endTime":1382.52,"body":"the same level that I'm on is frustrating us both  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1382.52,"endTime":1391.92,"body":"and making this a terrible mentoring situation, a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1382.52,"endTime":1391.92,"body":"terrible management situation, or just a terrible  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1391.92,"endTime":1400.72,"body":"employment situation sometimes because 'there is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1391.92,"endTime":1400.72,"body":"this inability for the person who has the curse of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1400.72,"endTime":1410.12,"body":"knowledge to just relate to the growing pains, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1400.72,"endTime":1410.12,"body":"to the uncomfortable you know, awkward getting  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1410.12,"endTime":1418.64,"body":"know like transformation piece from you know, from "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1410.12,"endTime":1418.64,"body":"beginner to Intermediate. Right. So there's often  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1418.64,"endTime":1425.0,"body":"a lack of patience. There's also a lack of how can "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1418.64,"endTime":1425.0,"body":"they not get this? Or there's just skipping steps  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1425.0,"endTime":1432.6,"body":"that are vital to learning but are always over, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1425.0,"endTime":1432.6,"body":"you know, but are always kind of like jumped over  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1432.6,"endTime":1443.569,"body":"when someone has it had experience, mastery of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1432.6,"endTime":1443.569,"body":"something. And again, it's the idea of preping  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1443.569,"endTime":1448.48,"body":"people for how do you educate? How do you transfer "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1443.569,"endTime":1448.48,"body":"knowledge? How do you bring somebody up from a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1455.28,"body":"place that is that you have a hard time relating "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1455.28,"body":"to into a place where you need them to be? And  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1455.28,"endTime":1459.32,"body":"like, as much as I'm. And you and I are both the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1455.28,"endTime":1459.32,"body":"big supporters of mentoring, but we're supportive  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1459.32,"endTime":1466.96,"body":"of strategic mentoring. And strategic mentoring is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1459.32,"endTime":1466.96,"body":"a about at recognizing that the curse of knowledge  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1466.96,"endTime":1474.56,"body":"is one of your biggest barriers to effective, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1466.96,"endTime":1474.56,"body":"training, onboarding, skill development. When  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.56,"endTime":1480.32,"body":"you don't have someone that can almost like "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1474.56,"endTime":1480.32,"body":"critically reflect or critically think about the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1480.32,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"stages and steps involved in upskilling somebody, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1480.32,"endTime":1488.0,"body":"so they just assume that everybody's, is at their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1492.64,"body":"level and you're again, kind of like you're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1488.0,"endTime":1492.64,"body":"asking someone to become an educator without  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.64,"endTime":1496.8,"body":"giving them any training, support, resources "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1492.64,"endTime":1496.8,"body":"in order to actually do that effectively."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1496.8,"endTime":1502.12,"body":"Yeah, I'm glad that you talked about "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1496.8,"endTime":1502.12,"body":"mentorship specifically, because I was going to  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1502.12,"endTime":1510.68,"body":"ask, about that if you hadn't, because as you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1502.12,"endTime":1510.68,"body":"said, mentoring is a great, there's so many  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1510.68,"endTime":1517.52,"body":"benefits that come from a mentorship relationship. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1510.68,"endTime":1517.52,"body":"There's direct benefits to the organization,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1517.52,"endTime":1525.96,"body":"there's direct benefits to the mentor and to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1517.52,"endTime":1525.96,"body":"the mentee. It can be a net positive win across  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1525.96,"endTime":1534.56,"body":"the board for everybody when it's done well. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1525.96,"endTime":1534.56,"body":"And I think this is one of the issues with  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1534.56,"endTime":1544.72,"body":"where mentoring fails is when you assume that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1534.56,"endTime":1544.72,"body":"anyone with a depth of knowledge can become,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1544.72,"endTime":1549.8,"body":"can be a good mentor. Just like when you assume "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1544.72,"endTime":1549.8,"body":"that anyone with a depth of knowledge can be  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1549.8,"endTime":1558.64,"body":"a good educator. It'that to understand "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1549.8,"endTime":1558.64,"body":"that the transfer of knowledge requires  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1558.64,"endTime":1566.16,"body":"a different skill set. It is a skill that can be "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1558.64,"endTime":1566.16,"body":"taught. So if you have people who, if you have  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1566.16,"endTime":1572.84,"body":"a M mentorship program and you have people with a "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1566.16,"endTime":1572.84,"body":"deep depth of, understanding of how your workplace  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1572.84,"endTime":1579.96,"body":"operates and you want to use them and leverage "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1572.84,"endTime":1579.96,"body":"them to help new employees along or to, mentor the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1579.96,"endTime":1588.92,"body":"growth of employees that you have targeted for, "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1579.96,"endTime":1588.92,"body":"succession planning, wonderful. Do it. But provide  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1588.92,"endTime":1596.08,"body":"your mentors with some skill development around. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1588.92,"endTime":1596.08,"body":"How do you actually train people? How do you, what  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1602.12,"body":"are those adult education principles that they can "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1596.08,"endTime":1602.12,"body":"use to actually be able to train, transfer that,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1602.12,"endTime":1606.8,"body":"knowledge effectively? Because then everything's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1602.12,"endTime":1606.8,"body":"going to get so much better for you."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1606.8,"endTime":1612.96,"body":"It does. And I mean again, when we are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1606.8,"endTime":1612.96,"body":"working with companies and we're looking at their  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1612.96,"endTime":1618.68,"body":"onboarding and their training and their mentoring "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1612.96,"endTime":1618.68,"body":"programs, again we have the luxury of being able  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1618.68,"endTime":1625.76,"body":"to assess their adult learning principles "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1618.68,"endTime":1625.76,"body":"processes. Are they using it effectively or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1625.76,"endTime":1630.88,"body":"are they missing, are they stepping over stuff? "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1625.76,"endTime":1630.88,"body":"Are they missing core pieces? Because m. Most  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1630.88,"endTime":1638.16,"body":"people in this realm don't have that depth of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1630.88,"endTime":1638.16,"body":"understanding about how adults learn or are about  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1638.16,"endTime":1644.92,"body":"effectively educating and transferring knowledge. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1638.16,"endTime":1644.92,"body":"So it's one of those things where we tend to kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1644.92,"endTime":1653.36,"body":"of like get. I try not to be too uppity about it. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1644.92,"endTime":1653.36,"body":"I try to be a little bit, I try to kind of be very  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1653.36,"endTime":1657.88,"body":"like understanding of the situation, the your. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1653.36,"endTime":1657.88,"body":"With the people that you have around you and with  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1657.88,"endTime":1661.84,"body":"your experiences so far you've done it, how far "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1657.88,"endTime":1661.84,"body":"you've come, which is usually you don't want to."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"Fall into the curse of "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1661.84,"endTime":1665.84,"body":"knowledge yourself and be un to."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1670.36,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I won't lie. I think "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1665.84,"endTime":1670.36,"body":"remind myself this all the time. Like you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1670.36,"endTime":1673.56,"body":"because again this is so obvious to me "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1670.36,"endTime":1673.56,"body":"when we're doing this kind of stuff. But  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1673.56,"endTime":1677.68,"body":"to realizing, you know, that this is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1673.56,"endTime":1677.68,"body":"how this kind of organically came to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1677.68,"endTime":1680.26,"body":"here is usually a really helpful "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1677.68,"endTime":1680.26,"body":"practice for us to remember this."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1680.26,"endTime":1680.6,"body":"Yah."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1680.6,"endTime":1684.2,"body":"Remember while we're doing this we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1680.6,"endTime":1684.2,"body":"actually help them where they're at, not try and  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1684.2,"endTime":1691.04,"body":"jump over steps. But we've run into this too when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1684.2,"endTime":1691.04,"body":"we've done some of our programs around recognition  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1691.04,"endTime":1697.04,"body":"or around motivation and purpose where this is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1691.04,"endTime":1697.04,"body":"stuff that we've researched and we've implemented  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1697.04,"endTime":1703.64,"body":"and we've worked with leadership coaches and we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1697.04,"endTime":1703.64,"body":"work with other consultants that specialize in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1703.64,"endTime":1708.72,"body":"business performance and we kind of go into "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1703.64,"endTime":1708.72,"body":"these companies to try and help them resolve  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1708.72,"endTime":1716.2,"body":"major organizational culture, challenges and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1708.72,"endTime":1716.2,"body":"improve performance productivity. And we always,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1716.2,"endTime":1723.64,"body":"we're always surprised and that the stuff that we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1716.2,"endTime":1723.64,"body":"think they need to reach optimal performance is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1723.64,"endTime":1726.84,"body":"you know, we're always kind of saying we think "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1723.64,"endTime":1726.84,"body":"they're probably going toa want to be at you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1726.84,"endTime":1732.32,"body":"level two but usually they're at like level "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1726.84,"endTime":1732.32,"body":"point one because like you kind of forget,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1732.32,"endTime":1737.16,"body":"right? This is the curse of knowledge. This is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1732.32,"endTime":1737.16,"body":"us assuming they know all about these, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1737.16,"endTime":1743.2,"body":"forms of recognition and all about these, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1737.16,"endTime":1743.2,"body":"know, connecting purpose and meaningful work to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.2,"endTime":1746.2,"body":"kind of the everyday and the communication "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1743.2,"endTime":1746.2,"body":"practices that kind of go around them. We  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1746.2,"endTime":1750.28,"body":"assume all this stuff is just everyone "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1746.2,"endTime":1750.28,"body":"else knows it too. Like all the other,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1750.28,"endTime":1753.8,"body":"all the HR professionals, all the leadership team "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1750.28,"endTime":1753.8,"body":"does that. They get this and we remember, right,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1753.8,"endTime":1758.68,"body":"this is us flung into the curse of knowledge. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1753.8,"endTime":1758.68,"body":"We have to take a step back and help them get,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1758.68,"endTime":1764.28,"body":"and meet them where they're at, not meet "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1758.68,"endTime":1764.28,"body":"them where we think we would be if we were  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1764.28,"endTime":1769.52,"body":"in that role. And that's big. The big critical "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1764.28,"endTime":1769.52,"body":"reflection piece you have to go into is remember,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1769.52,"endTime":1774.52,"body":"you got to meet the, the audience where they're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1769.52,"endTime":1774.52,"body":"at, not where you expect them to be if it was you."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1774.52,"endTime":1779.96,"body":"When you've never done these programs "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1774.52,"endTime":1779.96,"body":"before, when you've never done a self,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1780.48,"endTime":1788.2,"body":"exploration, a self discovery, program to help "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1780.48,"endTime":1788.2,"body":"to understand yourself better and how you work,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1788.2,"endTime":1793.96,"body":"then yeah, of course we need to start "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1788.2,"endTime":1793.96,"body":"with the baseline information that we  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1793.96,"endTime":1799.1,"body":"can then build upon to get you "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1793.96,"endTime":1799.1,"body":"to level 2, 3, 4, 18, whatever."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1799.1,"endTime":1805.16,"body":"Well, and it's. What's funny is in, you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1799.1,"endTime":1805.16,"body":"know, we gotten really good at really trying to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1805.16,"endTime":1809.8,"body":"understand where people are at when we work with, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1805.16,"endTime":1809.8,"body":"with new clients. Because some clients we go into  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1809.8,"endTime":1814.0,"body":"and they've done a lot of the stuff before, like, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1809.8,"endTime":1814.0,"body":"you know, they've done self assessments. They're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1814.0,"endTime":1818.44,"body":"used to kind of like, you know, personality "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1814.0,"endTime":1818.44,"body":"elements and traits, psychology, something that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1818.44,"endTime":1823.32,"body":"they've done, you know, stuff with. So we're like, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1818.44,"endTime":1823.32,"body":"okay, cool. We can kind of meet them, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1823.32,"endTime":1826.88,"body":"at a bit, at a bit of a higher level if you "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1823.32,"endTime":1826.88,"body":"really want to hit that optimal performance. But  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1826.88,"endTime":1833.58,"body":"then other companies we've come into and like no "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1826.88,"endTime":1833.58,"body":"one's ever taken a self assessment thing before."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1833.58,"endTime":1834.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1834.32,"endTime":1839.2,"body":"So like. Or like, wow, okay. So like we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1834.32,"endTime":1839.2,"body":"need to really, you know, take a few steps back  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1839.2,"endTime":1844.96,"body":"because we don't want to assume, we don't want "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1839.2,"endTime":1844.96,"body":"to fall into the curse of knowledge and have,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1844.96,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"you know, and be expecting them to be, you know, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1844.96,"endTime":1848.6,"body":"so much further along than where we are. We need  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1853.48,"body":"to really go back to those fundamental pieces. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1848.6,"endTime":1853.48,"body":"But we also know what's kind of cool about  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1853.48,"endTime":1860.289,"body":"those environments is that if we can get the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1853.48,"endTime":1860.289,"body":"adoption in there, the impact is astronomical."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1860.289,"endTime":1860.312,"body":"Oh, it's huge."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1860.312,"endTime":1867.32,"body":"Small efforts make huge gains in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1860.312,"endTime":1867.32,"body":"those environments. And it's so cool when  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1867.32,"endTime":1873.0,"body":"we do that. So avoiding the curse of knowledge "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1867.32,"endTime":1873.0,"body":"and meeting people where they're at can just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1873.0,"endTime":1877.88,"body":"be transcended because it's so cool to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1873.0,"endTime":1877.88,"body":"see people come along when you know how  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1877.88,"endTime":1885.14,"body":"firm that process should be and you know, the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1877.88,"endTime":1885.14,"body":"steps. Watching the journey can be pretty cool."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1885.14,"endTime":1887.64,"body":"Nice. All right, so before we move on,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1887.64,"endTime":1891.08,"body":"is there anything else you want to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1887.64,"endTime":1891.08,"body":"say on the curse of knowledge end?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1891.08,"endTime":1897.92,"body":"I think just again, to reiterate the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1891.08,"endTime":1897.92,"body":"fact that it's about not assuming that people  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1897.92,"endTime":1905.56,"body":"are where you're at and it's jumping into critical "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1897.92,"endTime":1905.56,"body":"reflection and critical thinking, especially when  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1905.56,"endTime":1910.52,"body":"come to things like how you onboard and how "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1905.56,"endTime":1910.52,"body":"you train people to meet them, where they're  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1910.52,"endTime":1915.88,"body":"at and taking almost like your own biases "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1910.52,"endTime":1915.88,"body":"and your own assumptions out of the equation."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1915.88,"endTime":1926.84,"body":"Excellent. All right, so one more. and "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1915.88,"endTime":1926.84,"body":"so I want to ask you about living in prolonged  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1926.84,"endTime":1936.44,"body":"survival mode. There has been a lot of stuff "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1926.84,"endTime":1936.44,"body":"happened in the last year and a lot of stuff  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1936.44,"endTime":1945.12,"body":"happened in the year before that. And let's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1936.44,"endTime":1945.12,"body":"face it, every year we are bombarded by a  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1945.12,"endTime":1953.08,"body":"lot of stressors, a lot of different factors "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1945.12,"endTime":1953.08,"body":"that influence our personal and professional  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1953.08,"endTime":1964.46,"body":"well being. And we end up. So what is the impact "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":1953.08,"endTime":1964.46,"body":"of people living in a prolonged survival mode?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1964.46,"endTime":1968.88,"body":"Yeah, so let's just kind of talk a "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1964.46,"endTime":1968.88,"body":"little bit about survival mode in general  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1968.88,"endTime":1974.64,"body":"first. So again, I'm sure it's something that "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1968.88,"endTime":1974.64,"body":"everybody's probably heard in some aspect the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1974.64,"endTime":1986.52,"body":"term. But survival mode really is a. About "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1974.64,"endTime":1986.52,"body":"people who are in such either traumatic or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1986.52,"endTime":1997.52,"body":"highly stressful or uncomfortable situations "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1986.52,"endTime":1997.52,"body":"that they're almost operating at a more basic  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1997.52,"endTime":2005.0,"body":"cognitive function than they would be when, when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":1997.52,"endTime":2005.0,"body":"not dealing with the trauma or the discomfort or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2005.0,"endTime":2017.44,"body":"whatever it is. So survival mode in a lot "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2005.0,"endTime":2017.44,"body":"of ways it's about a much more like core,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2017.44,"endTime":2025.08,"body":"I'm gonna say primitive but like, I mean that in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2017.44,"endTime":2025.08,"body":"more of like an standpoint, kind of like brain  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2025.08,"endTime":2030.88,"body":"function, it's not about thinking about all "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2025.08,"endTime":2030.88,"body":"of the kind of all the social complexities,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2030.88,"endTime":2037.72,"body":"all, all the different levels of like three "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2030.88,"endTime":2037.72,"body":"steps ahead is really about thinking about  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2038.48,"endTime":2045.12,"body":"moment by moment is really kind of what "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2038.48,"endTime":2045.12,"body":"survival mode is like. We. And you're right man,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2052.36,"body":"2024 for so many people has been just an absolute "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2045.12,"endTime":2052.36,"body":"nightmare. And we're hearing it kind of this kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2052.36,"endTime":2059.84,"body":"of growing involvement. All of us have a lot of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2052.36,"endTime":2059.84,"body":"optimism for now, for 2025, but it's this idea of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2059.84,"endTime":2069.04,"body":"people have been in this sustained level of almost "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2059.84,"endTime":2069.04,"body":"like, like more basic, more you safety focused  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.04,"endTime":2075.96,"body":"cognitive functioning because they're trying to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2069.04,"endTime":2075.96,"body":"live moment by moment. And I mean I always tie  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2075.96,"endTime":2081.68,"body":"survival mode back to malsow's hierarchy of needs. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2075.96,"endTime":2081.68,"body":"Right, right. Because knowing the hierarchy of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2081.68,"endTime":2087.16,"body":"needs, you know, to just refresh folks the basic, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2081.68,"endTime":2087.16,"body":"you know, the bottom foundation that you have to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2087.16,"endTime":2093.6,"body":"kind of, kind of build and work through is bas "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2087.16,"endTime":2093.6,"body":"your basic needs like you know, shelter, food,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2093.6,"endTime":2099.0,"body":"water, that type of stuff. Then you move up to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2093.6,"endTime":2099.0,"body":"safety and about safety of self, safety of family,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2099.0,"endTime":2104.016,"body":"safety of kind of situation, safety of income. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2099.0,"endTime":2104.016,"body":"And then you go on to belonging and then self  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2104.016,"endTime":2110.96,"body":"esteem and then self actualization. And it is such "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2104.016,"endTime":2110.96,"body":"a great way to kind of really understand survival  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2110.96,"endTime":2117.48,"body":"mode because so many of us have been kind of like "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2110.96,"endTime":2117.48,"body":"rocked to our core with traumatic situations in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2117.48,"endTime":2121.68,"body":"our personal lives or in our professional lives "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2117.48,"endTime":2121.68,"body":"or kind of just you know, or even kind of like  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2121.68,"endTime":2129.52,"body":"seeing kind of the institutional betrayal of our "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2121.68,"endTime":2129.52,"body":"systems or our governments or our like, you know,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2129.52,"endTime":2135.56,"body":"just. Or kind of the institutions that we rely on "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2129.52,"endTime":2135.56,"body":"are, you know, we feel betrayed or we feel that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2135.56,"endTime":2141.7,"body":"are failing us. So a lot of us are, to protect "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2135.56,"endTime":2141.7,"body":"ourselves, are stepping back into survival mode."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2141.7,"endTime":2146.4,"body":"And the add added stress that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2141.7,"endTime":2146.4,"body":"comes like with the continuing rise in,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2146.4,"endTime":2152.8,"body":"inflation and the cost of living and the stress "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2146.4,"endTime":2152.8,"body":"that comes from not knowing whether or not you're  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2152.8,"endTime":2157.64,"body":"going to be able to make ends meet and where "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2152.8,"endTime":2157.64,"body":"does this stop and where does this go? And  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2158.16,"endTime":2170.68,"body":"all of these factors really play into. I love that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2158.16,"endTime":2170.68,"body":"you tie it into Maslow because if you can't the  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2170.68,"endTime":2178.6,"body":"basics of maslow, if you don't have those basic "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2170.68,"endTime":2178.6,"body":"needs of, food, shelter and security, nothing else  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2178.6,"endTime":2186.88,"body":"matters. That's where your focus is. I see this "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2178.6,"endTime":2186.88,"body":"prolonged survival mode in that same way of if,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2186.88,"endTime":2194.68,"body":"if we have all of these external factors that are "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2186.88,"endTime":2194.68,"body":"forcing us to narrow our vision and only focus on,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2194.68,"endTime":2200.68,"body":"you know, am I going to be able to pay my "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2194.68,"endTime":2200.68,"body":"bills, Am I going to be able to keep my family,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2200.68,"endTime":2206.72,"body":"keep a roof over my family's head, am I "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2200.68,"endTime":2206.72,"body":"going to be. Whatever those stressors may be,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2206.72,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"it has a direct impact on our ability to perform "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2206.72,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"in our jobs. Right. Let's make sure that we are  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2223.16,"body":"making this relevant to the workplace because as "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2223.16,"body":"important as it is individually and as impactful  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2223.16,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"as it is to that individual, this does impact "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2223.16,"endTime":2231.76,"body":"our businesses as well. Which is why I think  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2238.6,"body":"it's really important for us to make that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2231.76,"endTime":2238.6,"body":"connection. Because as a business owner,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2238.6,"endTime":2247.56,"body":"as a business leader, you may not be able "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2238.6,"endTime":2247.56,"body":"to control all of those external forces that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2247.56,"endTime":2253.88,"body":"your employees are experiencing, but it's "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2247.56,"endTime":2253.88,"body":"going to impact your workplace regardless."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2253.88,"endTime":2259.12,"body":"Well, and I think one of the things "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2253.88,"endTime":2259.12,"body":"that I think most business owners, leaders,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2259.12,"endTime":2264.84,"body":"managers need to also even coworkers be aware "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2259.12,"endTime":2264.84,"body":"of is that most the people or there's a good  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2264.84,"endTime":2270.2,"body":"portion of people that your working with, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2264.84,"endTime":2270.2,"body":"seeing and interacting with every day that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2270.2,"endTime":2275.32,"body":"are operating in a prolonged survival mode. And "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2270.2,"endTime":2275.32,"body":"so the question the asked never really got to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2275.32,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"the answer of is kind of what is the effect of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2275.32,"endTime":2281.4,"body":"the prolonged survival mode? And a lot of it is,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2282.4,"endTime":2290.32,"body":"again it's the inability to kind of maintain the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2282.4,"endTime":2290.32,"body":"level of executive functioning, to effectively  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2290.32,"endTime":2297.8,"body":"manage social situations optimally, to effectively "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2290.32,"endTime":2297.8,"body":"think two or three steps ahead, weeks ahead,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2297.8,"endTime":2306.24,"body":"months ahead. It's really about almost like "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2297.8,"endTime":2306.24,"body":"just trying to keep yourself protected moment  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2306.24,"endTime":2316.0,"body":"to moment, day to day. Is kind of often the high "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2306.24,"endTime":2316.0,"body":"end of the forward thinking. So people are more  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2316.0,"endTime":2326.2,"body":"impulsive. People are really kind of sacrificing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2316.0,"endTime":2326.2,"body":"their long term, success for short term gain  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2326.2,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"because they can't see beyond the short term gain. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2326.2,"endTime":2334.44,"body":"there is this kind of idea of people having a bit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2334.44,"endTime":2340.4,"body":"of hopelessness in stuff that's a little bit too "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2334.44,"endTime":2340.4,"body":"far removed from them or a little bit too far down  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2347.72,"body":"the road for them to really conceptualize. There's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2340.4,"endTime":2347.72,"body":"you know, it's fun last episode and I'll make sure  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2347.72,"endTime":2354.2,"body":"I put identifying the show notes to the last "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2347.72,"endTime":2354.2,"body":"psychology kind of practical psychology of the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2354.2,"endTime":2361.2,"body":"workplace episode that we did last season. Talk "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2354.2,"endTime":2361.2,"body":"talked about self sabotage. Self sabotage is kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2361.2,"endTime":2369.84,"body":"of a common scene of prolonged survival mode. Just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2361.2,"endTime":2369.84,"body":"because again we're too focused on the short term,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2369.84,"endTime":2374.64,"body":"that we can't see beyond the short term to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2369.84,"endTime":2374.64,"body":"have any kind of future in the long term."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2374.64,"endTime":2380.48,"body":"It's hard to make good "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2374.64,"endTime":2380.48,"body":"long term decisions when you are  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2380.48,"endTime":2384.68,"body":"faced with very immediate pressing concerns."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2384.68,"endTime":2390.44,"body":"Well so I mean I see this in the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2384.68,"endTime":2390.44,"body":"workplaces with the companies that we work  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2390.44,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"with and if they like that too. But I probably "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2390.44,"endTime":2398.84,"body":"had the most extreme exposure to it in the years  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2403.0,"body":"I worked in community education. So when I was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2398.84,"endTime":2403.0,"body":"working in community education and I ran some  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2403.0,"endTime":2409.68,"body":"workforce programs, kind of some of the stuff "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2403.0,"endTime":2409.68,"body":"that I did involved working with people who  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2409.68,"endTime":2418.6,"body":"were like in dire straits, trying to kind of help "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2409.68,"endTime":2418.6,"body":"lift them out of the situation that they were in,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2418.6,"endTime":2422.92,"body":"to help them reengage into the workforce. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2418.6,"endTime":2422.92,"body":"Whether that was dealing with addictions,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2422.92,"endTime":2427.4,"body":"whether that was dealing with homelessness, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2422.92,"endTime":2427.4,"body":"whether that was dealing with multi barriered  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2427.4,"endTime":2434.28,"body":"situations, me as part of a team trying to kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2427.4,"endTime":2434.28,"body":"of help take people that were in a really tough  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2434.28,"endTime":2438.88,"body":"spot and try and help them get to a place of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2434.28,"endTime":2438.88,"body":"stability so they could reader the workforce  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2438.88,"endTime":2447.16,"body":"and have some sustainable success. And the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2438.88,"endTime":2447.16,"body":"thing that was always very pressing, I was  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2447.16,"endTime":2457.24,"body":"always very aware of and I saw all the time was "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2447.16,"endTime":2457.24,"body":"the lack of use of a full executive functioning  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2457.8,"endTime":2463.24,"body":"of their, their minds. Because like we've talked, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2457.8,"endTime":2463.24,"body":"I'm not sure if anyone studied biology or anything  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2463.24,"endTime":2468.52,"body":"like that. When you are talking about kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2463.24,"endTime":2468.52,"body":"like who can survive, who's robust enough or  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2468.52,"endTime":2472.6,"body":"what's robust enough to survive. You know, like "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2468.52,"endTime":2472.6,"body":"an apocalyptic situation. We talk about like, you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2472.6,"endTime":2476.76,"body":"know, like you know, if there was a nuclear "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2472.6,"endTime":2476.76,"body":"explosion, humans and all the complex animals,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2476.76,"endTime":2483.2,"body":"apes and you know, monkeys and dogs wouldn't "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2476.76,"endTime":2483.2,"body":"survive. But like the hardy ones are cockroaches  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2483.2,"endTime":2492.44,"body":"and microbes and really simple, basic, kind "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2483.2,"endTime":2492.44,"body":"of evolutionary creatures are Robust enough to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2492.44,"endTime":2499.12,"body":"survive, the less complex, the easier it is to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2492.44,"endTime":2499.12,"body":"survive. And that's kind of how our minds work  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2499.12,"endTime":2506.48,"body":"when we're talking about executive functioning "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2499.12,"endTime":2506.48,"body":"in survival mode that when we get into that you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2507.76,"endTime":2515.16,"body":"our complexity talking about social situations and "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2507.76,"endTime":2515.16,"body":"kind of all the things that we need to manage kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2515.16,"endTime":2523.12,"body":"of our long term future, you and those around "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2515.16,"endTime":2523.12,"body":"us is too complex for us to live with in the,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2523.12,"endTime":2528.08,"body":"in survival mode. It's almost like we retract "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2523.12,"endTime":2528.08,"body":"to use more primitive parts of our brain like  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2528.08,"endTime":2532.56,"body":"what's going to refer to in psychology as "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2528.08,"endTime":2532.56,"body":"the lizard brain which is that very core,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2532.56,"endTime":2536.36,"body":"you know, when we are coming out of the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2532.56,"endTime":2536.36,"body":"primordial soup kind of functioning.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2536.36,"endTime":2544.38,"body":"That's what is calling the shots. Because we "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2536.36,"endTime":2544.38,"body":"can't. The complex executive functioning are."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2544.38,"endTime":2547.12,"body":"We need to focus on "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2544.38,"endTime":2547.12,"body":"just getting through the day."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2547.12,"endTime":2550.96,"body":"That's just it. Because executive "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2547.12,"endTime":2550.96,"body":"functionings are too complex to survive in  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2550.96,"endTime":2558.2,"body":"that environment. So it's the more robust, more "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2550.96,"endTime":2558.2,"body":"simpler short term solutions thinking that is  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2558.2,"endTime":2563.76,"body":"what is calling the shots. Because that's who can "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2558.2,"endTime":2563.76,"body":"perform there. And this is the reality that we  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2563.76,"endTime":2569.68,"body":"have to understand. Again, most of us maybe are "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2563.76,"endTime":2569.68,"body":"not at that deep level that I talked about kind  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2569.68,"endTime":2575.84,"body":"of with the kind of experiences that I saw in "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2569.68,"endTime":2575.84,"body":"community education. A lot of them are probably  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2575.84,"endTime":2581.4,"body":"not at that level in the workplaces but some of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2575.84,"endTime":2581.4,"body":"them are, let's be serious. But realizing that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2581.4,"endTime":2587.72,"body":"you are probably managing working beside people "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2581.4,"endTime":2587.72,"body":"who are working in prolonged survival modes.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2587.72,"endTime":2594.08,"body":"They're not making the best decisions, they're "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2587.72,"endTime":2594.08,"body":"not thinking long term. They're really just  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2594.08,"endTime":2600.8,"body":"trying to get through the moment, maybe the day. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2594.08,"endTime":2600.8,"body":"Ah, at the long part you're seeing impulsiveness,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2600.8,"endTime":2608.84,"body":"you're seeing a bit of a self sabotaging "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2600.8,"endTime":2608.84,"body":"behavior. You're seeing people who want to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2608.84,"endTime":2615.56,"body":"not be in this mode but can't envision what it's "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2608.84,"endTime":2615.56,"body":"like to come out of it. And here's the thing,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2615.56,"endTime":2623.12,"body":"when they do there's a bit of a retraction. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2615.56,"endTime":2623.12,"body":"So it's funny, we had a client that lost  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2623.12,"endTime":2630.84,"body":"their building due to fire m and their staff "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2623.12,"endTime":2630.84,"body":"managed to work through this temporary working."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2630.84,"endTime":2634.52,"body":"They rallied, they "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2630.84,"endTime":2634.52,"body":"came together as a team."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2634.52,"endTime":2638.64,"body":"They were being moved around and they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2634.52,"endTime":2638.64,"body":"dealt with every day was where are we going to  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2638.64,"endTime":2644.56,"body":"be and what's go going toa happen like. But they "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2638.64,"endTime":2644.56,"body":"kept their business was a core community function.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2644.56,"endTime":2648.72,"body":"It was an essential service. They were a lifeline "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2644.56,"endTime":2648.72,"body":"to many people in their community. But they kept  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2648.72,"endTime":2655.76,"body":"the lights on and the wheels on the road sort of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2648.72,"endTime":2655.76,"body":"thing. And when they kind of took a breath they  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2655.76,"endTime":2661.12,"body":"were like hu okay. We actually have stability. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2655.76,"endTime":2661.12,"body":"We actually, you know, we all this work,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2661.12,"endTime":2665.8,"body":"we've now gotten to a place where we in a more "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2661.12,"endTime":2665.8,"body":"permanent spot. We have desks again. We actually  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2665.8,"endTime":2670.32,"body":"have computers again like you all this kind of "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2665.8,"endTime":2670.32,"body":"stuff. There was a bit of a retraction almost  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2676.76,"body":"like a bit of a rebelling against kind of the "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2670.32,"endTime":2676.76,"body":"stability. And people were complaining about,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2676.76,"endTime":2681.52,"body":"you know, minor little issues that were so "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2676.76,"endTime":2681.52,"body":"inconsequential compared to what they had gone  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2681.52,"endTime":2690.04,"body":"through. But there almost was a bit of a like just "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2681.52,"endTime":2690.04,"body":"that retracting or that rebelling against kind of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2690.04,"endTime":2696.48,"body":"there being a future. They're being something else "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2690.04,"endTime":2696.48,"body":"coming. They're being that requiring to use more  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2696.48,"endTime":2703.2,"body":"executive functioning because they'd gotten "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2696.48,"endTime":2703.2,"body":"used to prolong survival mode. M so there was  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2703.2,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"this weird reaction from the leadership team. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2703.2,"endTime":2706.32,"body":"They're like, after all they've gone through,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2706.32,"endTime":2710.24,"body":"why are they complaining about this stuff "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2706.32,"endTime":2710.24,"body":"now? Well, a lot of it was that bit of  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2710.24,"endTime":2717.56,"body":"that self sabotage just trying to shake off "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2710.24,"endTime":2717.56,"body":"the survival mode. That norm can be a tough  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2717.56,"endTime":2722.64,"body":"thing on its own. There's a weird transition "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2717.56,"endTime":2722.64,"body":"period over survival mode that most people,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2722.64,"endTime":2728.88,"body":"hopefully are going to be moving into in this "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2722.64,"endTime":2728.88,"body":"year, in 2025. But expect there to be a bit  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2728.88,"endTime":2733.52,"body":"of a one step forward, two steps back in some "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2728.88,"endTime":2733.52,"body":"ways or you know, because there is going to be  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2733.52,"endTime":2739.36,"body":"that bit of that almost like rebelling against "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2733.52,"endTime":2739.36,"body":"coming a survival mode because it's scary to."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2739.36,"endTime":2748.76,"body":"So I mean, it would be remiss of us not "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2739.36,"endTime":2748.76,"body":"to ask the question what can a manager, a leader,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2748.76,"endTime":2755.54,"body":"a business owner do if they think that they "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2748.76,"endTime":2755.54,"body":"have if this is a problem in their workplace?"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2755.54,"endTime":2762.08,"body":"Well, if you have a lot of employees "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2755.54,"endTime":2762.08,"body":"working in prolonged survival mode,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2762.08,"endTime":2769.64,"body":"a lot of it is trying to kind of realize "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2762.08,"endTime":2769.64,"body":"that you, you need to support the whole  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2769.64,"endTime":2776.2,"body":"person. You can to support employees as their "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2769.64,"endTime":2776.2,"body":"work. You can't support their job. You have  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2776.2,"endTime":2780.04,"body":"to support the whole person. So you know, when "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2776.2,"endTime":2780.04,"body":"you re. If you're in a workplace that has this  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2780.04,"endTime":2784.2,"body":"very transactional relationship between employees "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2780.04,"endTime":2784.2,"body":"where people just come do their job and pay them,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2784.2,"endTime":2789.2,"body":"they go home and there's nothing else provided to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2784.2,"endTime":2789.2,"body":"them, it's gonna impossible to really deal with  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2789.2,"endTime":2793.6,"body":"anything. If you know, with prolonged survival "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2789.2,"endTime":2793.6,"body":"mode, you're going to see dips in productivity,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2793.6,"endTime":2799.12,"body":"you're going to see all kinds of major red "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2793.6,"endTime":2799.12,"body":"flags. But if you're in a situation where you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2799.12,"endTime":2806.24,"body":"can actually do something to help people, part "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2799.12,"endTime":2806.24,"body":"of it is just realizing that this is kind of a  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2806.24,"endTime":2811.36,"body":"basic core function and try to understand "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2806.24,"endTime":2811.36,"body":"enough about the person situation that you  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2811.36,"endTime":2818.28,"body":"can actually give them little Opportunities, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2811.36,"endTime":2818.28,"body":"little ways to kind of help them see that there  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2818.28,"endTime":2823.76,"body":"is going to be a path beyond survival mode. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2818.28,"endTime":2823.76,"body":"So you can't get them out of it, but you can  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2823.76,"endTime":2829.8,"body":"support them while they try to move beyond it. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2823.76,"endTime":2829.8,"body":"And patience is going to be the most important."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2829.8,"endTime":2837.2,"body":"Patience is important. But I think "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2829.8,"endTime":2837.2,"body":"there's also what comes up for me is understanding  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2837.2,"endTime":2846.92,"body":"the factors of the workplace that may influence "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2837.2,"endTime":2846.92,"body":"that would have an impact or an influence on  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2846.92,"endTime":2852.68,"body":"survival mode. Burn whatever is causing that. "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2846.92,"endTime":2852.68,"body":"Right. Because if they're entering survival  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2852.68,"endTime":2860.68,"body":"mode because of they can't afford to live, then "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2852.68,"endTime":2860.68,"body":"compensation has a direct impact on survival  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2860.68,"endTime":2866.68,"body":"mode. If it's wellness, if it's job security, if "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2860.68,"endTime":2866.68,"body":"it's consistency, the factors, I think the factors  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2866.68,"endTime":2873.36,"body":"of the workplace is certainly an area where "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2866.68,"endTime":2873.36,"body":"businesses can take a bit of that self reflection,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2873.36,"endTime":2880.84,"body":"to if this is a problem for you and you want to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2873.36,"endTime":2880.84,"body":"actually achieve some level of productivity, then  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2880.84,"endTime":2886.64,"body":"there are things that you can evaluate and that "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2880.84,"endTime":2886.64,"body":"you can do within the scope of being an employer."},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2886.64,"endTime":2891.04,"body":"You're right. A massive thing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2886.64,"endTime":2891.04,"body":"that you have to know is what are the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2891.04,"endTime":2897.24,"body":"contributing factors to people having to "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2891.04,"endTime":2897.24,"body":"live in prolonged survival mode. And again,  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2897.24,"endTime":2902.36,"body":"you have to know how much the workplace is "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2897.24,"endTime":2902.36,"body":"contributing to that and the factors are  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2902.36,"endTime":2906.84,"body":"where that contribution is going to come "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2902.36,"endTime":2906.84,"body":"from. So again you may not be able to fix  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2906.84,"endTime":2911.96,"body":"all aspects of what's causing them in survival "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2906.84,"endTime":2911.96,"body":"mode if so much of it is beyond the workplace.  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2911.96,"endTime":2918.6,"body":"But knowing how your workplace is contributing "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2911.96,"endTime":2918.6,"body":"through to the factors, the seven factors that  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2918.6,"endTime":2924.72,"body":"we've talked about kind of job satisfaction "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2918.6,"endTime":2924.72,"body":"before is an absolute ideal place to start."},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2924.72,"endTime":2931.72,"body":"So I think we've had a really good "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2924.72,"endTime":2931.72,"body":"conversation. I have a much better understanding  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2931.72,"endTime":2935.88,"body":"of some of these things. Hopefully "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2931.72,"endTime":2935.88,"body":"people, if you're listening to this,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2935.88,"endTime":2942.32,"body":"you have a bit of an idea of what these "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2935.88,"endTime":2942.32,"body":"practical pieces of psychology are,  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2942.32,"endTime":2949.72,"body":"how they impact the workplace and hopefully what "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2942.32,"endTime":2949.72,"body":"you can do about it. But also recognize that you  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2949.72,"endTime":2957.04,"body":"don't have to go it alone. if you like this "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2949.72,"endTime":2957.04,"body":"format, if there's more of these pieces that  "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2957.04,"endTime":2963.8,"body":"you'd like to hear us talk about, reach out to "},{"speaker":"[JAMES]","startTime":2957.04,"endTime":2963.8,"body":"us any time. We love talking to people who listen"},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2963.8,"endTime":2968.84,"body":"All right, so that about does it for us. "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2963.8,"endTime":2968.84,"body":"For a full archive of the podcast and access the  "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2968.84,"endTime":2975.34,"body":"video version hosted on our YouTube channel, "},{"speaker":"[COBY]","startTime":2968.84,"endTime":2975.34,"body":"visit Roman3ca/podcast. Thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2975.34,"endTime":2978.68,"body":"For more information on "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2975.34,"endTime":2978.68,"body":"topics like these, don't forget to  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2978.68,"endTime":2984.52,"body":"Visit us at Roman3CA side effects of this "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2978.68,"endTime":2984.52,"body":"podcast may include improved retention,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2984.52,"endTime":2988.84,"body":"high productivity, increased market share, "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2984.52,"endTime":2988.84,"body":"employees breaking out in spontaneous dance,  "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2988.84,"endTime":2995.48,"body":"dry mouth, a version of the sound of James "},{"speaker":"[ANNOUNCER]","startTime":2988.84,"endTime":2995.48,"body":"Voice desire to find a better podcast…"}]}