163 - Honest Talk on Infertility and Hope with Emeli Rossell

Infertility is one of the hardest things to go through. It’s isolating, unpredictable, and often filled with grief that no one else sees. 

In this episode, I sit down with my sister-in-law Emeli for a raw, honest conversation about her multi-year journey with infertility—five miscarriages, misdiagnosis, failed treatments, and the heartbreak of being told to “just try again.”

We talk through the emotional weight of loss, how it impacted her marriage to Drew, and the moments she felt broken, ashamed, or abandoned. We also talk about what helped her keep going—faith, vulnerability, medical answers, and showing up for herself one day at a time.

This episode isn’t about advice or answers. It’s about listening. It’s about naming what hurts. And it’s about remembering that no matter what you’re facing, you don’t have to face it alone.

Here are the main takeaways: 

1. You are not broken. Infertility doesn’t define your worth or your identity.
2. Listening is more powerful than advice. People going through loss need space, not solutions.
3. Faith and support systems matter. Whether it's God, your partner, or a friend, healing starts with connection.

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Getting After It is for those who. want to silence their self-doubt. Refuse to be owned by comfort. Understand their limits are man-made and breakable. We live in a time of constant comparison. Social media drowns us in highlight reels and overnight success stories. But what most people don’t see is the grit behind it all. The reps. The quiet mornings. The sacrifices. The failures.

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Transcript

Meet Emily And Set The Stage

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay. Emily, welcome to the Getting After It Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

It's about time.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

It's been we've been talking about this for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

I know, and I feel really bad. I do that to so many people. And if I have done that to you and you're listening to this, I apologize. Reach back out. But um I'm really excited to talk to you today. Uh for many reasons. But I mean, before we go into all that stuff that I sent you, um information on or whatever, but um I would love to just have you introduce yourself, how you're in the family, all that stuff, and then we can kind of jump into some of this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Okay. Well, hello. I am Emily. I am Brett's sister-in-law. Um Drew's sister now, really. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yeah, same thing.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I'm Drew's wife. He's been on here quite a few times. I know.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, which is a little jealous, but that's okay. It feels even worse because he's been on, I think, like seven times, but anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Seven times? Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I think so, yeah. Wow. He's like the number one most returned guest besides Allie.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Can't really count Allie because she lives with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

So she doesn't count.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah, she doesn't count. Yeah. But um, yeah, so you married into the family and almost ten years ago. That's insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Next summer it'll be ten years.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

That really is wild. Yeah. Doesn't feel that long though.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

So, like, what was that? Your senior year? I was there when you graduated after your graduation.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

It was, that was nuts. And then, like, as soon as um I graduated, I went on the mission and all that stuff. But um yeah, I mean, it's pretty pretty cool, like just having another sister, really. Like, that it's it's cool because I feel that way about Jen too. Um, but like having you in the family makes it like complete, and it's pretty cool to see that. So thanks. Um, but I wanted to have you on today because there is something I've talked a lot about on the podcast um that I know you've dealt with too. Um, but it's infertility, and it can be an uncomfortable thing to talk about. Um, but I've like after dealing it with myself and Allie, like she's not the one that has issues. Surprisingly, it's me.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Um surprisingly.

Naming The Pain: Infertility

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I mean, that's the thing is everyone like uh always blames the woman, right? It's like, oh man, you know, they can't have kids because you know the woman might have some issues, but it's me this time, like I'm the issue. But not saying like that's it's an it's an issue. Um, I should rephrase that. It's not an issue. I just you know everyone's different, everyone has problems. Um, and it's been a really hard thing. Like, it sucks. Um like Allie and I we talk about it all the time, like, oh yeah, we're gonna have kids, but you know, there's no there's no uh I guess end in sight.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

There's no when.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I mean, like, yeah, there's no date. There's no you don't know if it could happen next year or five years.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

And there's so much unknown too. Um, and so it's it's kind of a I wouldn't say scary because no one's like in danger, but it's it's a hard thing to go through. Like just getting, you know, hey, we'll see what happens in the next appointment. Like every single time we go see the doctor. And um we have a big test coming up uh uh I guess at the end of this month. It's gonna be pretty telling whether or not like we can have kids um based on the medicine we've been taking and all that. But um long way of me introducing what we're talking about today. But I know you know you've you've dealt with it and you've been pretty open about it, which I respect um because it's hard to be. And um I would love to just hear you walk us through your journey. Yeah, um, you know, what it was like to um you know you felt something was off or something happened, and then your diagnosis, and then just maybe go into it just a little bit there.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah. So I feel like we should start off by saying everyone goes through their own journey, right? And yeah, and what worked for me to, you know, get through it might be different than what will work for you. And our although we are both we I went through and you are going through infertility, they are still like separate stories, right? Like, so I mean, people you guys are going through worse than what we feel like. I felt I do you feel that way? No, I feel like what you guys are going through is worse than what we went through.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know, maybe it's just perspective, but like it sucks. But I I don't know. You'll I'm sure we'll get into some of the stuff, but I don't wanna Yeah, I just I don't wanna I don't wanna downplay everyone goes through the their own stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

That's that and yeah, but um so about maybe a little over a year after being married, um, we came down here for a friend, my best friend's wedding. Um, and it was here we found out we were pregnant for the first time. I hadn't been on like birth control or anything like that pretty much our entire marriage. I also didn't know anything about like trying for a baby. It was just kind of like, hey, we're pregnant. Like we weren't trying.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

What happened?

Three Miscarriages And A System That Waits

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Um, and so I remember like driving home back to Rexburg. It's when we were living in Idaho. Um, we're driving home and we were talking about like all the baby names and all the new stuff, and we were looking at like baby outfits on Amazon and like adding things to like a cart, you know. We were just like so, so excited. Um, about a week later, we had a miscarriage. Um, I think I was probably around five weeks long. Man, um, went to the doctor, he said, like, oh, it can be kind of common. Yeah, so we were like, Okay, well, whatever. All of my sisters have had no problem getting pregnant, really, no problem having babies. And so I didn't think like anything would be wrong.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Um, and then three months later, the same thing happened. We found out we were pregnant, and then we had a miscarriage like a week after finding out.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Doctor said the same thing. Like, we can't do anything until you have three or more.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Really?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Like, we can't do any tests or anything. That's what they he told us.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah, that's horrible. Make people do it. We were like three.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah. So three months later, yeah, it happened again. Like, had a miscarriage, went into the doctor, and he said, Okay, well, let's do some blood work. Did some blood work. Everything was generally normal. There was one test that came back like slightly positive, but he was like, It's nothing. And this is just that like a regular OB, not a fertility specialist or anything.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Oh, okay. So just like whoever you saw in Rexburg, basically. Okay.

Ectopic Pregnancy And Rock Bottom

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yeah. And then um, I had a friend who worked for a fertility specialist, and uh, actually, maybe we were still in Rexburg when we had our fourth. We we went in for an ultrasound earlier because we had this history of miscarriages, and we found out I had an ectopic pregnancy.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

What is that?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Um, it's where the like baby gets stuck in your fallopian tube instead of going all the way to your uterus.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

I've heard that actually.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, and if you don't catch it early enough, like it can be life-threatening and you can have a tube removed and stuff. And um luckily for us, we caught it early enough. Yeah, um, and they did they gave me like a shot to help it pass, and it was very, very vulnerable time for me because it hurt very bad. I think he like compared it to having like a shot of chemo, like what it does to your body, like putting just that much stress on your body.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Oh geez.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

And yeah, it was- I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

It was not fun at all. And like Drew had to help me walk and stand and get out of bed. And I am not, I hate being vulnerable around people. And that, and yeah, and that and we had only been married for a year and a half. No, maybe two years, I guess two years at this point. And I just still wasn't, I didn't love to be like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Um, so we moved back to Arizona, and uh we had I had a friend who worked for a fertility specialist down here, and so she got us an appointment fairly quickly, and we went in, and uh um she was like, Great, like it doesn't seem like anything is super wrong, but here let's give you all this. Like, we can try IUI. We could we'll maybe we'll make it to IVF, but what's IUI? IUI is where they like take the sperm and they insert it in you instead of like mixing them and then putting it in. Um so we did that. We did like in this like ultrasound thing where they like put fluid in your uterus to make sure ever nothing is blocked and anything. Um we got pregnant like a month after doing that, and then like everything seemed great. We went in for ultrasound. We got to see the heartbeat of the baby at like six weeks, and then the day after that ultrasound, after seeing the heartbeat, we had a miscarriage. No, and it was very hard because we were like we just saw the heartbeat yesterday.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Like what I didn't do anything in the last day that could like have done that, yeah.

Specialists, Tests, And A Real Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 9:24

And so yeah, that was our fifth miscarriage, our loss. Yeah. Um, and the specialists we were seeing was like, okay, well, let's try IUI next. Yeah, and we were we weren't really comfortable with it because we obviously are not having a hard time getting pregnant. Yeah, it was just keeping the pregnancies that like wouldn't stay.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

I can't imagine that. That's just like I can imagine being in that situation, uh and for me, I would feel a lot of fear for like just trying again. Yeah, like I don't I don't know if like I don't want to go through that again or put like my work.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

It was hard to get excited, yeah. Like, and I mean, even when we got pregnant with Reese and even Margot, like it's hard to be excited at first because you're like, what if it's just another and you don't want to hurt, you don't want to get yourself like hyped up to just be let down again? Yeah, it was not fun.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

At least with what I'm going through, and um I don't know, you might have felt this way too, but like infertility has brought many feelings to me where I just feel broken, like a lot of the time. I'm like, what is wrong with me? Like all these guys out there who can have kids, like they have a sperm. Like, well, how how come I don't? Like, so weird. I mean, obviously I have like hormone issues and a tumor in my brain, but um, like I just really when we found out all this stuff, it was a good like two months where I was like, I'm just broken. Like, and then I felt like um I felt bad for Allie because I was like, you know, she's expecting a family, I can't give it to her. Um, and it was just all these self-degrading thoughts like came all the time. Did you ever deal with anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

All the time.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Really?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

I was always like, I I always apologize to Drew. Like, I'm sorry you married me. Yeah, I'm you know, I'm not worthy to be married to you. Sorry, I'm gonna like starting. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I mean, it's a hard topic.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yeah, I thought I wasn't enough. I was like, I'm a woman, and I can't even do my like womanhood duty, like to have babies. Like how I'm sure I was like, I'm sure Drew hates me because he expected to get married and have kids, and here I can't I am, and I can't have kids. And I it it was yeah, lots of horrible, horrible self-talk. And and it it was really hard to come out of that.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

The only reason I think I got through it, and like we still don't have a solution, but it's because you know, one Allie helps me, and then two, like I remember I'm a child of God, which we can get into that stuff later. But yeah, um, sorry to interrupt you with your story. Oh, you were saying you're don't worry about you know, seeing a doctor in Arizona and so we had um someone in your mom's ward actually saw was seeing a doctor. I remember this lady, yes.

Blood Thinners, Pregnancy, And Reese’s Heartbeat

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah, and your mom was like, Hey, you should just call them. Yeah, like why not? And I don't know who the lady was. Like maybe I met her once and we like connected that story. I like, but I had never met her before, and I was like, We're already seeing a fertility, but whatever. So we called, um called and got a consultation with a new fertility doctor, and he did like a blood panel, and that one test that was elevated when we lived in Rexburg, and the OB just like sloughed it off. Yeah, that is what like told our O or the specialist, like, this is what's wrong. He diagnosed me with a um what's it called? An autoimmune disease.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Okay, yes, called antiphospholipid syndrome. So that's where anytime I got pregnant, my body was thinking it was like a foreign object.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And my blood, yeah, my blood would like thicken up on all the vessels that were going to the baby, it thickened it up and closed it off so that the baby would just That's crazy. Yeah. So um, I guess it's still kind of a newly studied like autoimmune disease. I was reading a lot about it when I was diagnosed with it, and it's like um a symptom of it is having miscarriages. And then, but other than that, like a lot of people don't find out they have it until later in life when they have blood clots or heart attacks because you just have thicker blood. Yeah, and so yeah, when when we found that out, we started on um blood thinners on Lovinox, and there are injections that I had to do twice a day, every single day throughout my pregnancy, yeah, both pregnancies and even future pregnancies. Like, I'll always have to do this. Um, and that seemed to like do the trick. Yeah, like we have not had any problems since being on blood thinners, and it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, but you find the one thing it is.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Well, and I'm just I'm so grateful for modern medicine because what about 10 years ago, 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Like, oh, it'd be yeah, there's nothing. It's crazy. Like we we truly are blessed.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Um, like it's I feel that same way with all the stuff that I'm doing too. Like I take shots every three days and take some pills. Um, I think it's N clomophene and H H H C G. Wow, can't say it. Speak. It's been a long day. Um, but yeah, so I mean like that's one way that you know we potentially might have kids, but it's such a small little thing that you know my body just doesn't produce certain hormones, and those bring them in.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah. Um, so you got on that pretty quickly, and then yeah, so I got in, I I got on it and he was like, wait like two to three months.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

But we got on it and got pregnant the same month. It didn't do anything, like it ended up being fine, and you know, now we have Reese, and he's four and a half years old, and he is just the sweetest spirit like I've ever met in a kid. Maybe I'm biased because he's my own kid.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

I don't know, he's a pretty sweet kid.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

But yeah, he's so like, yeah, and same with Margle. Like, we got on that right away as soon as I found out I was pregnant. Yeah, and it's didn't have any problems.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

That's amazing. Yeah, so I mean, like, how long was that journey from when you found out in Rexburg for the first time to when Reese was born?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Let's see, uh, I got pregnant with Reese in 2020 and uh like the middle of 2020, and we uh had our first miscarriage in August of 18.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So yeah. Four three years?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yeah, about that.

Guilt, Shame, And Feeling “Broken”

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Or 27. Let's see. I guess 2017 was our first miscarriage.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

2017, yeah. Yeah, and during that time, um, I have to apologize to you because I didn't really know what you guys were going through, and I was like, Drew, come hang out with us all the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Don't even worry about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Drew was sad, and he's like, Yeah, that sounds good. He'd probably want to get out of the house, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're at home by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Okay, because so messed up. That's how Drew was coping with grief was you, and so I know he's always been super grateful for you. Like just to be there.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Like looking back now, I'm like, man, Drew should have just been with his wife. Like, what a terrible thing. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

I was only slightly depressed.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

I was actually that's so sad. I was talking to Allie about that. Um, we were driving home from somewhere, and I was like, Emily probably hated me at the beginning, like when I was up there, I was just like, so bad, but um, anyways, uh I promise I didn't. Uh yeah, well, I appreciate that. But I if you hold some hard feelings, I I totally understand. Um, one thing I was really interested to to ask you is is how going through that experience has changed your parenting style or like how you look at your kids. Has anything been different than I guess?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

So yeah, I I get it. So even though I say this, I don't want it to come off like kids are not pure chaos because they are, right? And they test your patience to the very, very tippy top. Like, I am not an angry person. I feel like I'm generally go with the flow. And man, my kids they spike my cortisol levels every single day.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Um, they're so fun though.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

But I like to think that like everything we went to went through has made me a more patient person. Um, and I was actually just talking to Ali about this today in your kitchen. Oh really? Yeah, like it, and I was like, who knows? Maybe what you guys are going through, maybe that's why. Maybe you both need to learn some patience. Or, you know, we never we never really know the lessons that were being taught through our challenges.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

That's true. That's definitely true. Um, I mean, yeah, we're I feel like we are learning a little bit of patience too, because you know, it is, you know, we try something for three months and then it's like, okay, well, let's get another test, and then who knows how that goes. If it goes well, then I'm sure they'll do something different. Or if it doesn't, you know, it might be like, hey, let's you know, get another procedure or whatever. I don't know. Um, but it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Like that same thing, like, even as hard as it is. Um it's been interesting for me because like I feel like a lot of the times I actually carry a lot of gratitude. Um, because at the end of the day, like Allie and I talk about this all the time. We know I'll have kids, either naturally or you know, through a donor or adoption. Like there's options out there. And at the end of the day, I'm just like, you know what, at least I have my wife, at least I'm healthy. You know, I'm not like I was back in 2020 when I was a stick. Um, and you know, things are pretty good. But yeah, it's interesting what types of lessons that you do learn going through these types of things.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

It's hard.

How To Help: Words To Say Or Avoid

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I think it also makes you one, just grateful for the journey that you go through. Like as sucky and hard as it was to go through five miscarriages, yeah. I'm so grateful for it. Like, no doubt, I know with all my heart that challenge was Heavenly Father, like shaping me into who I am today. And so yeah, it sucked. And I'm I'm like so so sorry that you guys are going through it, but I know that you guys are gonna come out stronger on the end.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah, I I know that too, and I appreciate you saying that. It's it's um, you know, I couldn't go at it alone. Like, if if I was married to anyone else other than Allie, I think I'd probably be like, okay, I'm not even trying anymore. But Allie's such a good support. Um, she helps me like on the days where I'm super low, she knows how to like pick me up, and um, I'm sure you and Drew kind of bounced off each other like that too. Um, but how did you guys support each other, you know, during that time? And uh how'd you guys grow closer to one another?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

So I've thought about this question today because I remember Drew being on here once and and talking about this, and he was like, I completely forgot about myself, and I like put all my energy towards Emily. Like I remember him saying that, or maybe yeah, I'm pretty sure he has said that on your podcast. And he was like, That's what you gotta do, is you gotta just forget yourself. But I do not agree with that. I think it is very important one to take time for yourself, yeah, but like you do have to lean on each other. Drew was like, I just wouldn't let myself have hard days. Like, I but it's okay to have hard days. Yeah, it's okay to be like, you know, I can only give 20% today. Yeah, can you help me? Can you meet me with the other 80%? Like, no doubt because we went through that so early on in our marriage. We got married really young. He was 21. I was 20 when we got married.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I think I was the oldest of the family. I was 26.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Old man.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

But I have no doubt because we went through a challenge like that first thing in our marriage, we are much closer today.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Like I think it's important to be there for each other and to talk to each other as hard as it is. I am not an emotional person. My family was not raised to like talk, like emotionally, it was like, oh, if you're feeling something, just brush it to the side. Like so it push it down. It was I know Drew got frustrated with me all the time because I wouldn't want to talk about anything. Yeah, but I will admit the more and more you talk about it, the better it feels. And when you're when you're being vulnerable with each other, like you're only gonna grow closer.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, that's great advice. And I feel that I feel that way too. It's like you just gotta get it off your chest sometimes. Yeah, it's hard. This sucks. It's very hard. Yeah, absolutely it is, but you feel better.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

It's worth it.

Faith, Anger, And Finding Hope Again

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, like it's it's worth it. It's um, you know, you have that one hard conversation and it literally feels like a breath of fresh air. Um that support piece with people who are going through infertility, I think is a pretty tricky one. Um, and I I may have sent you a question regarding this, but um that's one thing that I don't really know how to help others who are going through it. Um, but after going through it myself, like I kind of have a good understanding of like what you should say and what you shouldn't say. Um but from your experience, like, did you have anyone that was like, hey, that was a really nice thing that this person said or did? And then like the complete opposite. Like, are there things that you should avoid saying to people who are going through something like this?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yes. So would you believe it if I told you that someone close to me told me these exact words? Maybe you just weren't meant to have kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

No way.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Do not ever, ever, ever say that to someone.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Do I know them?

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

All right, but off air, you'll have to tell me.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, do not ever, ever say anything like that. Or like that's horrible. Maybe it's just not in the cards. Do not ever say that to someone who's struggling having kids because it hurt me so bad.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And Drew wasn't there when they told me that, and I think I went home and told Drew. Maybe he was there. I don't know. But Drew was like, I just want to punch him in the face, you know. Sounds about right. I was like, like, that just hurt so bad. That's right. I mean, I still I still remember it, and that was like five years ago. Yeah. So it has stuck with me. Avoided anything like that. It hurt me so bad.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, that's horrible.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

So do not ever ever say that. As for like what you should say or you should do, I um, that's such a good question. But I always felt better when I talked about it. I didn't love when people would give me advice, you know, it'll happen when it happens. I didn't love that piece of advice.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I mean, that's the thing, it's like you don't know if that's true. It's like it's like I mean, it'll happen when it happens, great, but that could be 10 years from now.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

That's the most generic thing to say. And it's it's not what I wanted to hear. Right. I mean, maybe people are different, I don't know. But I really loved when people would just listen. Yeah when they would say, I don't know what to say right now, but I'm listening and I'm here for you. And that's all I needed to make me feel better.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

And I love that.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

And I feel like I didn't get it a ton, maybe a couple people here and there, but I would have liked to talk about it more and get it, get just my feelings more off my chest versus internalizing them.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah, I mean it it does do something to you. Like when you're able just to sit there and talk to someone about it and have them hear you. Um I totally agree with what you said. Like, sometimes you don't need to offer advice to someone who's going through it. It's just like sit there and listen to them and let them know that you're there for them and that you care about them. Um, I was having this conversation with someone at work the other day. Like, she has um two twins. She's actually in the same exact situation you are, but one year earlier. She has a three-year-old boy and two twin girls. Um, but I was just talking to her about it, and uh like she said the same exact thing. She's like, I don't know what to say, but like you can tell me whatever you want. Yeah, and I was just like, you know what, that's super nice. Um, and it's helpful. Like it doesn't feel like they're trying to solve all your problems. Um it's just like, hey, I I care about you and I'm listening. Yeah. So it's huge.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Well, and what's interesting, well, not really interesting, but like a lot of times I feel like when it comes to infertility, you can't give advice. Like, because everyone's going through their own thing. And have you even been through it? Like, so like I I don't want someone who never went through it to come to me and just be like, you just gotta keep pushing through.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Like see, that's that's a great piece of advice because there's someone that you and I both know that I'll tell you afterwards, who gives me advice and yeah, it's like kids, it's like it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, it's okay. You have not been through this. Like it's okay though. Yeah, like you don't have to give advice. If you just are loving and you listen and or if they don't want to talk about it, some people don't like talking about it. That's okay too. Like, just let them know that you're there for them.

Advice For Couples: Talk, Rest, Lean In

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah, I like that. Yeah, um, I remember you had a mommy blog for a while. I did. You talked about some of these things. What did you talk about on those?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Um, so I only I only posted a couple times um because I think then I had Reese, or you know, Reese just became so busy, and then I had Margot pretty quickly afterwards. And I I I don't know. I I don't even I should start it back.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Do you remember what it was called?

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah, it was called Prickly Pear and Pecker.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Prickly pear and pecker.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yeah, because it's talking about infertility. I thought it was so clever to talk about like a pecker.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

It was so funny, and then prickly pear because we're there's cactuses in here. It's Arizona. Why not? Yeah, um, yeah, it was called Prickly Pear and Pecker, and I had just kind of talked about our journey. And what was actually really cool about that is that I had someone in my ward um text me one time and she was like, I read every blog post because my daughter is going through it, and I did not, she did not have problems like with fertility. She had six kids, no issues or anything. And she said, But reading your blog has helped me to know how to help her, interesting, or like to think about like things that she is going through. Yeah, and so that was really special to me. And I yeah, I should have kept it going, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

You can always start it back up. That's true. Hey, getting after it's all about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

That's very true.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

One time I had a phase of the podcast, it was between when Allie and I got engaged to when we got married, to where I didn't post. So you can always restart it.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, I should. I've talked to Allie about it a few times, like how I've always wanted to do that, just like to help people because infertility is not talked about very often.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

I was I was just about to say, it's like it's almost taboo to talk about it. Like people, I think they get nervous addressing the topic, and they don't one want to offend people, and two, it's like it's kind of uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, it is can't have kids. It's hard talking about loss and and people's struggles, but right, yeah, and and maybe that's why I kind of struggled through it a little bit is because no one would talk to me about it. And I I thought I was alone because I didn't really know anything about infertility and miscarriages, and so I was I yeah, I was going through a a lot of it alone, but I think you should do it because one thing I've learned through going through it is it's more common than you think.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Like I've had multiple friends who have gone through it, and like I was surprised, honestly, because I was like, I I thought it was a really rare thing, but it happens a lot. Yeah, so I don't know, people just need to Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

I think I read somewhere that like one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage. One in four, one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Terrifying actually, it's kind of scary.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Isn't that like crazy?

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah, you got a 75% chance.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah, I mean, majority of it happens like in the first trimester.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Man, yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

One in four twenty five percent chance.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

That's crazy. I'd be yeah. Well, data sometimes is scary, but yeah. Um I want to bring back like one thing that you talked about. You talked about you know how heavy. Heavenly Father has helped you learn a lot of lessons during this time. And I think faith plays such a role in times like this. Um and relying on God, you know, trying to have that the communication with Him or whatever it is, that support. Um, did you have any practices or or did you do anything to try and you know focus on God or or anything like that? Like how did faith play a role in in this time in your life?

Miscarriage Is Common: Breaking The Silence

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I will admit that for a long time I was just angry and hopeless. And uh Drew and I, um, when we were in the family ward in Rexburg, we were called to work with like sunbeams, which is that's like the brutal. But four-year-olds, you know, three-year-olds. And we hated going to church. We did not want to like see kids. It just hurt us really bad to think that like we're surrounded by kids. Yeah, we can't like we we really struggled with it, and probably me more than him. Yeah, and um, yeah, I had I had lost a lot of not completely. I still I knew Heavenly Father was there, but I was mad. I was really, really mad. And I actually recent maybe I shared this with you and Allie, I don't know, but I um was reading through my journal recently of a entry from when we were going through all that, and I had said, like, like Heavenly Father hates me. Like, why am I going through all of this? What have I done to deserve this? Like, he's abandoned me. I keep praying and praying and praying, and he's not answering. And when I read that, I was so hurt because if that girl could see who I am today, yeah, she would be so flipping proud that she has three kids. Yeah, like and so I will admit I I lost a lot of faith and I really struggled. And probably if it weren't for Drew, I would be in a I don't know, different situations I would be, yeah, not a good person. No, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

But um Yeah, not for a second.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, we so we actually when we moved home, we got a lot better about going to church and being together more and and slowly, slowly hope came back and it came back and it came back. And I think as long as you are putting in that effort, you will not be abandoned. Like he will never ever leave you. And I wish I could have told myself that then, because when you're in the thick of it, you don't want to be told that. Like I feel like I feel like when you are going through it, your mind automatically just keeps going down and down and down and down and down. Oh, yeah, it's a spiral.

Parenting After Loss And Patience

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, you have to catch it, or it's like it's it's dangerous. And um that's what I've I've learned too, like through many of my trials. Um, I think when I was sick, that's when I first learned about like really putting faith in God. Because there was a time where it's kind of like you, where I was mad. I was like, you know, I used to be this buff, um, strong athlete guy in college, and now I'm 135 pounds and can't get out of bed. Like random things, and I remember just having conversations like with God. I was just praying, and um it's like the time when I couldn't look at screens or anything, so I just sit in a dark room, and uh, I was just like, why is this happening to me? Like, I'm in the prime of my life. I'm supposed to be, you know, dating, going to school, like doing all these fun things, and like I can barely get out of bed. And I just remember having those conversations, and um then I just remember like that's the beauty of of knowing Jesus Christ is he understands you completely. And it was it was like a flip switched one of the days I was laying in bed. Um I wish I wrote it down, but like I just remember thinking, like, hey, you know what, this does suck, but I'm not alone. Like Christ knows exactly how I'm feeling. And once I understood that, like going into like infertility right now with us, it's that same idea. It's like, you know, this is terrible. This really is like I would say there's no positives from going through this. Um I'm sure we'll see that, you know, in hindsight's 2020, but like I s I just still feel like hey, Christ knows exactly how you feel, and uh you know, you experienced infertility different than I I will, and same with Allie, and um but you understand like some of the same things, but Christ understands how I feel completely. So it's kind of just like a cool perspective to me, thinking like, you know, Jesus Christ, He understands me completely, He knows how to help me. And it's like you said, just turning to Him and trying to have that faith. Yeah, it's tough though, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

It is, yeah. Actually, today I heard a song and it reminded me of when we were going through all this stuff was the first time I heard it back when we were going through all of our infertility. And it's a song about Jesus, and it's this girl on a ship in the middle of the ocean, and she's like, the water's deep, like the waves are raging. Why why am I here? Why did you bring me here? And Jesus's response is like, Well, what if I didn't bring you here to drown you, but to cleanse you? And like, I know the water's deep, but if you only knew, like I'm here for you, you know, and it's such a really beautiful song, and and it's a great reminder of like we constantly through all of our trials, infertility, having kids is a trial in its own, like you're constantly finding or learning new things, like no matter what we're going through, we're being challenged because we are growing. Yeah, and that's a crazy way to think. I mean, that's how I look at my challenges now, are like this is so hard, but I'm growing from this.

Movement, Nutrition, And Mental Health

SPEAKER_01 35:59

There's a there's a quote I love, it's just growth isn't meant to be comfortable. It makes sense, like you're supposed to get out there and um build yourself up and you know, going through these experiences as hard as they are, they do teach you a lot. Um so yeah, I mean, if you uh like if there was someone listening right now that's going through infertility and doesn't really have any hope or anything like that, um I know you talked about like you know, the advice that you would like is just to have people listen, but if you did have to give one piece of advice to someone, um, do you have anything?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, I would tell them, and I would tell you, you are not broken. You are enough. I know that your body may be struggling, or whoever's listening to this, I don't know your story, but you might feel broken, you might feel like nothing's working out, but you are enough, and you're not going through it alone. I'm here for you, and your family's here for you. And if you're watching, you can send me a message and I'd be happy to message you. I had someone do that one time, like random girl messaged me.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

I'll put your uh Instagram handle in the bio.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

But um, that would be the biggest thing. It's just like you don't have to go through any of this alone.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yeah. No, I I appreciate that. And then like it really is how I feel a lot of the times, is like I I have those thoughts, like I am broken, but I know it's just that's not true. And um, yeah, it's tough, but yeah, I appreciate that. That's it's great advice because I think that's the biggest thing that people face when they're going through it. Yeah, obviously there's the grief piece, but I think if not if you're not careful with it, that can take you know internal pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yeah, you've got to find peace where you are.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

Your your path to parenthood, like you'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Yeah, I love it. You have anything else you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

No, nothing you're doing Team Tim?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

All right, there we go.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Um, for sure the half marathon. I'm thinking about doing the full Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Well, actually, I have a story.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

So, um, when was the Shamrock run?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

So that was when Reese turned a year old.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Okay, so 2021.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, my first half marathon.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

So that's the uh the race that I remember we were sitting around the table and you're like, hey guys, I'm doing a half marathon. Does anyone want to? Was it twenty two?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I think it was twenty two, yeah. Reese was born in twenty-one.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Okay, yeah, because I'm right, you're right. Or to Utah. But that was the race that I signed up for, and the doctors were like, You can't run it, you're gonna have a heart attack. Um, but that's the race that I attribute getting me into running. So Brett, thanks for watching.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

That's because of you. Yeah, I mean very much.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

It was like that that race was interesting because it was like, you know, I had to prove to myself that I could still earn that medal. Yeah. And so when I um like they sent the medal to me because I didn't go and all that stuff, and Dina's like, hey, like, I'm gonna send it to you. And I was like, You can't send it to me unless I run.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Uh, I remember her telling me that like Brett won't let me give it to him until he runs. I was like, not a chance. Well, he's got a point. I got a point because he didn't earn it.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, I don't want just a medal for no reason. Um, but yeah, that's because of you. So here we are today.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

I'm grateful. I remember your mom and I ran a half marathon once.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

I don't even know like when this was, but you were totally like our support team. Like would meet us at different checkpoints with Gatorade and water.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Like I'd have Gatorade for you guys. I'd be following you in the cars to make sure you guys were safe. I mean, I was like, what, 20? I had nothing going on. I don't know. It's like random Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

But hey, you guys did it.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Yeah, we did it.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

I mean, you you get after it.

Running Goals, Back Pain, And Grit

SPEAKER_00 39:53

That was the start of running, I would say. Yeah. I saw I my goal is to run a at least a half marathon at like my year postpartum mark.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

So I ran one every pregnancy? Every pregnancy. So I ran one when Reese turned a year, and then I got pregnant pretty much like that same week.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

And then I ran one when Margaret turned a year, and that's when Allie flew down and ran it with me.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

She loved that race, actually. We adopted Ellie, and I count that, or I count my first team Tim as like that's her my dedication to her. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, that works.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Was that one? Yeah. And then I ran a marathon a little bit after that.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

And yeah. So why are you deciding between the half and the full?

SPEAKER_00 40:35

So I actually trained for a full. No, I trained for a full this year. Drew and I both trained for that one in California. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Um, but but I have a herniated disc and spinal stenosis. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

You had a herniated disc.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, that's why I was having all those back problems.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

So I think the furthest I got last year when I was training was like 15 miles. And I like going anything past that was just hurting my back so bad.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

So, and I had been dealing with back pain on and off for like two years.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

And just like a few months ago, went and had like an x-ray and an MRI, and yeah, found out I had that.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Brutal.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

So I've had steroid shots in my back.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

You got rooted up.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

I'm not painless, but I'm less painful. So I'm yeah, my goal is to keep going as far as I can. I'm planning, I'm training for the marathon.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

But I will I don't want to kill myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

That's fair. Yeah, and back issues you gotta be careful with.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Yeah. Right now I'm I'm trying to just run through it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Well, goggins. You got the goggins in you.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Oh my gosh. He's intense.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

All those guys are just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Seriously.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Um, but yeah, no, I I I think it's awesome. And that's one thing like I really admire you for, and really any mom out there who's like not just training for things, but like just staying active and working out. Because like I see, I see how difficult it is with the three kids. Um, like there's little time, you know, they're always running around. They're, you know, you can't take them to the gym.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Drew was telling me you guys, you have a your gym is a rule of like 30 minutes in the you so the previous gym I would go to, yeah, had like you had to like tie or sign up for like time slots. So it was like only there was something in their app that was only letting you sign up for 30 minutes at a time. Like it could never get more. And I was like, this is absolutely like who works out for 30 minutes?

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah, and on top of that, so you take them, you get the 30 minutes starts, then you gotta go stretch, get ready, and then it's like, okay, the workout's done.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah. So now I have two hours though. Yeah. In the I can leave them for two hours in the kids' club area. So yeah, I I think when it comes to like working out in parenthood, like you just have to be intentional. It is very easy to slip into like that. I don't want to get them in the car seats and then go to the gym. And then what if I what if they start crying at the gym, then I have to leave? Like that's happened where I've been there for 15 minutes and my kids won't settle down, and so I have to leave.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

That's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

And so, yeah, I think the more intentional you are about it, the easier it can be. Like, I'm not saying it it's ever easy, but like I will say though, the example it sets to your kids is absolutely phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Like, yeah, when Drew's got so many cool people.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah, Drew and I like we both like to run. Obviously, Drew's way more into it than I am currently. But You better be.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

We're running 50 miles in April.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Seriously, you don't think your kids are watching, but Reese will come up to us and be like, Hey, can we go for a run? Hey, can I go outside and go for a run? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's so precious.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

My favorite was the beginning, like the morning of our ultra race. Reese was like, let's go run around. It's just like at the start line, it's like 7 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

It's gonna give you a workout before you go run your reading.

Discipline, Example, And Everyday Wins

SPEAKER_01 43:45

So awesome. And like I think it's um, you know, you hear that common phrase like the best way to to lead is by example. Yeah, and I think it's awesome to like the fact that you Andrew are both like avid at you know, making sure that you get workouts in and taking care of your bodies, you know, eating right, that is gonna, you know, reflect on your kids. Yeah. I obviously don't have kids, so I can't say that. We try.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

I mean, it I mean, it is so easy to just have chicken nuggets and mac and cheese and all those unhealthy things that we grew up with.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

I was not taught a lot about nutrition growing up.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Like I was not either.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

I was in sports, yeah, pretty active, but nutrition, uh-uh.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

I was in sports until I got fat and chubby as a kid, and then I was like, all right, I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah, but that's when I was like, and so now as an adult, it's hard to like rewire your brain of like, oh, we shouldn't be uh, you know, having lemonade at every single meal or going to have you know Taco Bell and McDonald's and all the good stuff. I mean it's delicious, but it is delicious, but yeah, and and I will say, like, your gut health and your brain health work hand in hand because when we are eating like crap like that, I cannot tolerate my kids. Like I I have such a hard time because I feel I start feeling bad about myself, and then I don't want to go work out, and then my cortisol levels spike because I can't, you know, run out my stress. And you know, so like all these things, it's a domino effect of like if you're not doing your best in one area, all of your other areas in your life are gonna fail.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Yeah, you gotta. I mean, it's it's it's hard, but it's like that quote that Jocko says discipline equals freedom. If you can be disciplined in each of those areas, like with your food, you'll have a healthier body with your fitness, you'll feel better about yourself and you'll feel better just overall. Um, literally everything. Like you have to have discipline in, you know, yeah, most of the the areas of your life, your faith. Um, kids. I don't know how to discipline kids, but you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

I don't know either.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

I'm still challenging another thing that's like hopefully leading by example works, but I'm sure I'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah, I mean, we're not perfect. We uh we yell and we uh Yeah we lose it and we eat unhealthy, and but yeah, I think in parenthood and with your health and exercising, as long as you're trying your best and you're trying to teach your kids to be good people, then I think you're doing pretty great.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

That's all that matters.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah.

Closing Reflections And Shared Hope

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Well, I think you guys are awesome and um so glad that you guys are like, you know, you have the family that you do, because it's it's awesome to see you. Like, because I I remember you guys going through some of that, and it was it was tough. Like I know it was tough on Drew. I can't imagine what it was like for you. Um But also like it it also gives me hope, you know, because Allie and I are kind of in the same situation situation, and like there is hope. Um so yeah, I know I appreciate you coming on and and talking about this. Um really because it's it's uncomfortable. Some people don't want to talk about it. Um, but really I think most people just don't know what to do if they are faced with this. Yeah. Um, so I I'm I think it's you know definitely a topic that's worth bringing up multiple times. And um so if you ever want to come again, you totally can. But okay. Um now anything else um before wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 47:09

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Okay, well, yeah, seriously, thank you so much. And everyone else listening, thank you for taking the time uh to spend with us today. And um, if it meant something at all to you or helped out, uh share it with a friend who might be going through something. And um as always, keep getting after it. Thanks, guys.