Talking Pondo: Rare Exports and The Ref with Jessica Stone

 In this episode, Jessica Stone joins the podcast. She brings along the movie Rare Exports. Marty and Clif give Jessica the movie The Ref to watch.

This milestone episode gets it's start with Ted Demme’s The Ref (1994). The trio breaks down Dennis Leary’s breakout performance as a cat burglar forced into referee duty for a brutally unhappy family, discussing the film’s sharp dialogue, performative holiday traditions, and why its mix of rage, therapy, and forced honesty still works decades later.

The conversation then shifts north - way north - with Rare Exports (2010), a Finnish holiday horror film that re-imagines Santa Claus as something far older and far more dangerous. The group digs into what makes the film so effective, how it contrasts with The Ref, and why both movies ultimately tap into the same holiday anxieties in very different ways.

 It’s funny, unhinged, thoughtful - and the perfect way to ring in 100 episodes of Talking Pondo. 

#TalkingPondo #FilmPodcast #MoviePodcast #FilmDiscussion #ChristmasMovies #HolidayMovies #DarkChristmas #CultFilms #TheRef1994 #RareExports #DennisLeary #FinnishHorror #Episode100 #FilmAnalysis #MovieTalk 

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:01

It's like so weird. It makes no sense. And I'm like, you know what? I think I just have to accept that it's not gonna make any sense.

SPEAKER_05 0:11

You know, I look at this movie like a kaiju film in a way. The little kid's like Kenny, he's friends with Gamera, he knows everything about the monster and how to defeat it and all this. And like you said, it's from the viewpoint of the kid, yet it's a movie that no kid should have any business seeing because there's just too much wang.

SPEAKER_07 0:28

It's not a children's movie.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

It's so much, it's so much wang.

SPEAKER_07 0:32

I was like, who is this movie for? Because it it's not a comedy, not really.

unknown 0:37

I mean, just play.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Welcome to season three of Talking Pondo. Talking Pondo is a podcast where Cliff and Marty give each other a film to watch and talk about them in detail. Some episodes will include a special guest.

SPEAKER_05 0:58

Swimming with sharks will not be seen this week, so we may bring you the following movie where Kevin Spacey is tied to a chair.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Well done, sir.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Well done. It's like here he is again, and here we are tying him up again.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Tying him up to a chair, yes. Or tying him to another person. He's getting typecast. Yes, early on in his career, too. That's hilarious. Well, okay, so we're back. Uh talkando. Uh I have a special guest with us this week, but uh before we get to that, uh I'm Cliff. That's Murray. It's Christmas. It's Christmas. It's episode 100. Episode 100!

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Woohoo! I can't believe we did it. Episode 100. It's taken forever to get here.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Episode 100. Yeah, and we're actually I'm still I'm sorry, I'm patting myself on the back. I'm trying not to break my arm.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

We're doing uh weird, or I should say weird. Is weird the right word? Unconventional, violent Christmas movies once again. And I realized it's the third year of doing this. I'm like, but we've only been on two years. Ah, because when we start it, we start it right around the holiday season. So that's right. Yeah. It's looped around again.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

And so who else starting to I'm starting to dig these violent Christmas movies? I gotta be honest with you. As just as a genre itself, I'm like, I'm starting to like this, man. I might might write one myself. This is kind of fun.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

Well, I hope you do, because uh for me it's a little bit of diminishing returns the more we go through. But it in order to celebrate episode 100, who else do we bring back? But of course, it's Jessica Stone bringing us Christmas cheer once again.

SPEAKER_07 2:43

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am really excited and honored to be your on your 100th episode. That's that's right. So cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

That's right, and our Christmas episode. What a nice Christmas episode! What a nice cup, what a nice combo.

SPEAKER_07 2:57

Um, and that's and my birthday is Christmas, so wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay, well then happy birthday. Happy birthday, merry Christmas to everybody, to our listeners, merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa, happy uh holidays, and happy whatever else. I don't know, but happy, happy joy, joy.

SPEAKER_07 3:16

What was the greeting from Seinfeld? The um what was the festivus? Festivus. Yeah, there we go. Happy festivus.

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Celebration for the rest of us or something like that.

SPEAKER_07 3:29

Yep, you got it.

SPEAKER_05 3:32

But of course, uh, we don't well, maybe eventually we might watch some quote unquote normal Christmas movies once we've burned through all the unconventional ones. But once again, we've picked another couple of uh oddball choices. We have The Ref from 1994, a movie that played at the theater when I was still cleaning up after the dirty theaters. I think Cliff was gone by then because it came out in April. That that should have come out in the holidays.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, that was I I never I never understood its release timing at all. I I mean that's I had to reshoot the ending, is what happens. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, but but putting that out around uh right after October, and that would have rode into the holidays for it.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

And then the other movie is uh a return to the director of Cisu, one of the very first movies we ever recovered on the show. Uh I watched it on the last drive-in, so I got to get all the Joe Bob trivia tidbits along the way. That was Rare Exports, a movie from 2010. I thought it was a lot more recent than that, but no, that movie is old, old, old. 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Well, yeah, I can't believe it's that old because it's not the graduate old, but it's old.

SPEAKER_07 4:43

Well, it just seems like a few years ago I watched it. And uh, you know, it but no, it was actually about 10 years ago that I watched it.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Well, it was my first time this week, so so yeah. Um, did you see any commonality between the two movies, Marty, other than it being on the holidays? Uh people being tied up. People being tied up. I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_07 5:10

I saw one. I'll let you finish though. You go first.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

Oh, I was just saying, yeah, that was just the theme. It's like, you know, ties tie somebody up. It's Merry Christmas.

SPEAKER_07 5:19

I noticed that there's there is a reference to Scandinavia in in the ref.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

But oh, that's right, the Scandinavian meal that she prepares, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 5:32

But the theme that I noticed is that um in both movies the villain is not who you expect it to be.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 5:42

In terms of because, well, we can Yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

I I well yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Okay, yeah. Sort of, yeah. I could kind of see that. Sure. Um I yeah. Um which one do you guys want to which one do you guys want to cover first?

SPEAKER_07 6:02

I'm gonna let you guys decide because I think I chose last time.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 6:09

Well how about this how about the movie that starts within the first 23 seconds the credits come up? Bruckheimer, Simpson, Ted Demi, and I can already feel the Coke just pulsing through this film. What is the ref from 1994? Because those three did a lot of coke. I don't know they did it on this movie, but in general, Don Simpson, Jerry Bruckheimer, and Ted Demi, who made a movie called Blow and then died after playing basketball because he was on Coke. Ooh. Ouch.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

But what is the ref? Some people enjoy cocaine, that's their business. Uh I missed I I read that they're actually adding like like flavored powders to Coke now, and I'm thinking, man, like, you know, you because they don't like the aspirin drain, drippy taste. So they so they mix it with like strawberry or chocolate so it drains and tastes like, you know, these millennials and gym beers. What kind of a life? Soft ass drug users. Anyways, the ref 1994 rated R Hour 37 Minutes. A cat burglar is forced to take a bickering dysfunctional family hostage on Christmas Eve. Uh directed by Ted Demi, written by Mary Weiss, Richard LaGravenisa, stars Dennis Leary, Judy Davis, and Kevin Spacey. Let me see, let me get you a uh storyline here. Dennis Leary plays an unfortunate cat burglar who is abandoned by his partner in the middle of a heist and is forced to take an irritating Connecticut couple hostage. He soon finds that he took on more than he bargained for when the couple's blackmailing son and despicable in-laws step into the picture. Before long, they're driving him nuts with their petty bickering and family problems. The only way for him to survive is to be their referee, resolve their differences before he can be nabbed by the police.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

I mean, sure we've seen it before, but have you seen it like this? Bill, yeah, we have. It's, you know, oh, I I've uh I've come into these two people that are bickering, and I don't want to be around them, and I gotta help them out, and then I escape. But it's the ref. Why did they call it the ref? He barely referees much. He mostly just stands around and kind of gives knowing looks as they well.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

I mean, he's like my one of my favorite scene early scenes in the movie is where he tips the two of them over on the chairs onto the floor, and then he's like, and he's like, uh, you know, you fucking saw the stop sign, didn't you, Lloyd?

SPEAKER_06 8:35

See, I thought the whole movie was gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Didn't you, Lloyd? And he's like, Yes, yes, I saw the stop sign. You know, it's like on their lives, he makes them admit forces them to eat their bullshit completely, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:46

Right, because they keep lying to each other and then accusing each other of lying, and he's just like, I'm done with this. And my my note about that is as um as the movie progresses. Um I wrote down let's see, Anger Management, the movie. And I think there was a film called Anger Management, but anyway, but this is like that. And then Couples Therapy through torture and terror.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

You know, it's a new form of therapy, Marty. Yeah, what it is. They're just trying to form a therapy. See, he's kind of doing his his stand-up. He definitely is. But you're also starting to see a little bit of his actual acting ability come through.

unknown 9:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Well, yeah, one of my notes is that um well, first off, that you know, Ted Demi, I think he rec he shot block and load and no cure for cancer. So, but um he's this is early in the lyric. I think the only thing he'd done before this, maybe, is the is the Edgar friendly thing. Well, yeah, Demolition Man, right? Demolition Man. So he's so he's not like he's been on screen a lot, and he's got a fuckload of screen time in this movie. He's the lead basically, or is uh you know, amongst the lead in the ensembles, and he's holding his own with Kevin Spacey and um and Judy Davis, and Judy Davis is the both those two are powerhouse actors. And so he you know, I I felt like he was really bringing it. And he and the yes, he's doing his Dennish Leary stick, but he's it's it's toned down, and it's also I feel like they smartly wrote the part for him. It's like we talked about with um oh gosh, um, Mrs. Doubtfire, where they were smart about using Robin's talents, but kind of keeping him keeping him compressed, but then going, okay, here's moments where you can kind of let go and sort of do your Robin Williams thing, you know, and I felt like they did that with this pretty well too.

SPEAKER_07 10:41

I noticed, or I you know, I I was thinking as I was watching it, this isn't as cynical as I remember Dennis Leary being. And and I was thinking, is it because we're in such we're far more cynical now than we used to be? Or is it just somehow, you know, like to your point, maybe they tamed it down a little bit because I think you're right.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

No, I I think you're right. I I remember it being a lot harsher, but there is a lot of heart to the movie. There's layers of it, you know, and there's a lot, there's a lot going on with the family dynamics and and all that stuff, and some brilliantly funny, funny moments.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

Oh yes. My god.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Some of the rant like the whole rant where he bangs on the fucking Christmas tree. Yes, and he's like the corpse has the floor, and then he tells his mother he's gonna buy her a cross so she can nail herself to it. And I'm just like, oh my god, it's all so fucking funny and well written.

SPEAKER_06 11:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:34

Yeah, I think it felt more cynical back when it came out because it was one of the first of its kind of these dark holiday holiday movies. I mean, yeah, there would be no bad Santa or like even Violent Night with that. That's a good call in a way.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

No, that's a good call. I've I really think think you nailed something there. You're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_05 11:52

And you look back up for 30 plus years and you go, Oh, this is kind of charming in a way, but the charming was a little harsher.

SPEAKER_07 11:58

Yeah, it was it was dark, but it was still like there were it was sweet, you know, and there was there were these, you know, these moments of it gives advice to the kid in the closet.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, you know, hey look, kid, don't start running. You think my life's fucking great? It is, and it's fine when you're 15, but when you're 35, it kind of sucks, right?

SPEAKER_07 12:20

Like no family, no home. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

You know, it's at least like dinner in America, right? It's the interloper who comes into the interloper totally, and he shows him the what about Bob or any of these type of things.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's totally and it's totally like it takes that interloper trope, but it does it really well. Is my friend eventually, yeah, yeah. A little Stockholm syndrome for you, you know?

SPEAKER_07 12:44

Yeah, it was um I I think what got me well that I noticed a couple of themes. One thing, one thing that kept coming up, and I don't know, I don't remember Dennis Leary's humor, you know, comedy stuff that much. I haven't watched it since back then.

SPEAKER_05 12:59

It's on yeah, uh in a way you kind of did.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, yeah, you kind of you kind of did.

SPEAKER_07 13:04

Well, there was this recurring conversational theme or an even demonstrational theme in the interactions between the town members and everything, where it's like the privileged rich versus the common guys, the working guys who are actually doing stuff or trying to do stuff, and like the the scene with the the detective when the guy comes in and you know, and they're like, you know, our home was robbed, we've got to stop all this. And he's like, What am I gonna do? Every time you guys come in here, you just want me to, you know, get your dogs or whatever. You know, when there's a real problem, you call the attorney, you call the you know the senator, yeah. Call the whatever. And so he's like, go call them, get the get out.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

The police chief's great. I'm the I think I've loved him. Yeah, the other great thing about the movie is that the these others kind of side characters feel they don't feel very cardboard, they at least feel like they've got some some tooth to them. I don't I don't understand why the fuck everybody's excited to meet Gary. Gary seems like a real boring dude to me. Like, but everybody's like, Gary, is Gary here? Oh, Gary, when's when's Gary coming? I'm just like more if they won't leave.

SPEAKER_07 14:14

Yeah, I know. Well, he's the nice guy. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

I'm totally kidding. The thing about the police chief, oh no, good, is uh I feel like he has a little bit of a loose end. Like the last time you see him, he's basically been fired, and he tells the guy, you know, three times, Bob, or whatever the line was.

SPEAKER_07 14:35

We went three times. You didn't you never went three times with her, she said.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

Right, you never see him again, right? But the original ending, I think, was Dennis Leary gives himself up to the cops, and that didn't test well, so they reshot the ending, which is why it didn't come out at Christmas. But I feel like and I'm speculating maybe that chief had a little bit of a wrap-up to his story in the original ending, perhaps.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah, maybe, yeah. That makes well, I mean, if he's arresting the if he's being arrested by the chief and all that, there'll be some sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

You want to see him not lose his job over this nonsense, right?

SPEAKER_07 15:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

You know, I thought his fault they recorded over the tape.

SPEAKER_07 15:12

I ended up watching this twice, and the first time when I finished, I was just like, the ending felt really rushed and weird. Like, what the hell happened? All of a sudden, everybody's friends, and they help him escape.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

And why it wraps up pretty it wraps up with a nice one, a little too nicely with a bone.

SPEAKER_07 15:30

Yeah, a little too fast. All of a sudden, it's just like boom, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

See you around, you were never gonna see me again, kid.

unknown 15:38

See you later.

SPEAKER_07 15:39

Um, so that explains why, because of the you know, they refilmed the inning. So clearly whatever they originally wrote didn't work, and I wondered about that, but but then on the second viewing, I could buy it a little bit more because I could because I paid more attention to the to the interactions between the characters during the the fighting scenes and and kind of the psychology. I guess I was thinking more about the psychological interactions and how um Gus, Larry's character, enables these guys to use their to have a voice. They actually start speaking the tr their their truth. And and and through that they become allies. And I just really, you know, you could see that happening, especially when when telling their tyrant mother to fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:29

And when Rose when the mother starts saying stuff to Leary and gets him so pissed off and and uh Stacy grabs him and holds him.

SPEAKER_06 16:38

I fucking hate her. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

I hate her, Lloyd, a fucking hate her. I started laughing so I paused and I just laughed for like a solid minute at that point because I was just it's so perfect, like it comes at a perfect moment, and then he's like, What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, grandmas are supposed to be sweet, like what the fuck happened to you?

SPEAKER_07 17:03

Yeah, no, I wrote that line down. I actually copied that line down where he says, um, he said, you know, I've known no loan sharks that are more forgiving than you. Your husband ain't dead, lady. He's hiding.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

I just give up that he's hiding.

SPEAKER_07 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

The the opening therapy scene really sets the stage for the for the film. Like you know what you're gonna, you know what you're going into after that point. I mean, she's literally sitting there going, well, the sex wasn't what's the word, noteworthy. And he's just looking at her like, I want to fucking kill you right now. Like it's just and then they both tell the therapist at the end of the scene to fuck off. It's like, oh, these two are deep and livable hatred. And this is this is uh gonna be a fascinating film. And then of course getting stuck up and taking these two hostages is kind of a brilliant kind of like, oh shit, what would you do if you had two of the fucking most the worst people who couldn't stand each other and you had to like lock them in a room and keep them together, you know?

SPEAKER_07 18:04

Uh I like when he sprays them with the with the fucking hang on a second, he just sprays them out. You know, trying to shut them up. It's like they're like wild and rabid animals, and he's just gotta keep going, you know, shutting them down.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

Kidnap my parents.

SPEAKER_07 18:20

Like, I have the gun. I'm the only one who gets to yell.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

No gun, no yelling. Oh, the the cigarettes. Where are they, Carolyn? Yes. Where where are the cigarettes? Where are they? You know, it's just the movie's very quotable, it's very funny, it it moves pretty quick. I I feel like it might be just a touch long. I feel like maybe they could have cut, make carved maybe another, maybe another three or four minutes out, but at an hour 37, it's still pretty good. It's it's got a good pace. It you don't lose too much in it. It's not trying to bury you in feelings, right? Like it's not trying to overburden you with the touchy-feely. It's just like, hey, sit down logic. Yeah, here's your turn at the end. Everybody's happy. We're gonna move on. We're gonna fucking tie grandma up and gagger. That kid with his gleeful tape and shit, where he's he's just running the tape around his parents and their mouths and shit. Are you sure this is gonna hold? And he just keeps going.

SPEAKER_07 19:21

You can tell that Leary was trying hard not to laugh harder than he already was watching that. Um there's uh some of one of the things that I wrote down was that um how refreshing it was to me to watch a movie where the writers don't blatantly paste exposition into dialogue. They they tell the story through the acting. It's there's acting that's happening, and you don't have someone saying, you know, what's going on. You have no idea whose house is being robbed, you have no idea where what's going on. Is it their house that's being robbed? And that you know, it's just I like how it unfolds, and you just you see what's going on as it happens, and they work through stuff as it happens, and um, it's not dumbed down, you know. If you miss it, you miss it.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah, I like that. I like that too. If you blink, you'll miss JK Simmons. No shit. I was about to bring that up. Oh, not to mention Christine Baranski is just fucking chewing. She's like, You want me to play a bitch? Here we go. And just fucking amazing. Like that is, I've met that woman. I know I know people like that, and that is perfect. That perfect sort of self-righteous, you know, that oh my god, I was like, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_07 20:38

They are all spoiled children and and they can't, and they're all self-centered. Like to me, the like the the family dynamic. Another note I wrote was yucky family dynamics, uh, narcissistic matron with resentful children. And Christmas is performative. Everything they're doing is not about actually caring for each other or buying each other nice gifts. It's and and they all know it's all passive aggressive.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah, they're all kissing that old lady's ass, hoping she dies so they can get the inheritance, you know, which she's probably not gonna give them anyway. She'll find some way to screw that that those kids over, and because they're she knows they're ungrateful and they don't care. Right. But there's a I mean, there's a reason. You're charging your kid 18% interest on a fucking loan.

SPEAKER_07 21:24

18 and then they're still paying it$50 later.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

They're still paying it, and she's going, well, we'll have to see what interest rates do this year. It's like, holy shit, dude.

SPEAKER_07 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

You know what this family needs? A mute. It's like a John Hughes holiday movie that took a lot uh that just took a left turn into into like Angerville. You know what I mean? Like it's it's so close to like an Uncle Buck or a Planes Trains and Automobiles to me. It's got that kind of tone and feel to it.

SPEAKER_05 21:57

So it's one of those where it's like it the 80s hadn't ended yet. Yes. Like remember when we did the Mrs. Doubtfire episode and I said it still felt like the 80s, and you're like, no, it's totally the 90s. Well, what I mean is years ninety through ninety-four felt like the eighties hadn't ended yet. They're obviously the early nineties, but their own vibe is like years 11, 12, 13 of the 80s in a way. And this is like one of those that still has the last vestiges of one of those type of movies before we hit 95, and they really don't make things that feel 80s-ish anymore because we've moved so far out. And then sure enough, I looked it up. The script was written in 89. So I guess I just have that radar for those things. But you notice it too, Cliff. It does have that kind of 80s John Hughes-ish vibe.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

It's got a it's definitely got that vibe. Um the candle hats are awesome. The whole the whole fucking the whole fucking dinner scene is a is just majestic. Like from the minute they sit down till he's fucking making them sit back down as they're trying to leave, and she gets drunk and is and is telling the story about living in New York City, and that little girl's like, then what happened? And then what happened? She's totally into the like the fact that her aunt's just drunk and dishing about everything.

SPEAKER_07 23:15

Those kids are like, This is it's Christmas TV time, you know. Like they're in it, they're there for the entertainment. They love watching all the fighting and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

So good. Um so good.

SPEAKER_07 23:25

One of the little or like subtler themes that I enjoyed in the film was the the mystery of the missing nativity, Jesus. I don't know if you noticed.

SPEAKER_05 23:36

Oh, yeah, they're the ones who took it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:38

Well, so it's funny because the um so that the movie starts and there's somebody bitching about the missing nativity. Well, yeah, but you don't see that, you don't know that you kind of suspect, yeah, yeah. But it's not proven until later when Dennis Leary's going through his room and he opens the box and pulls out the nativity Jesus. But then there's a scene, another scene before that, where when she goes to she's like, Let's go get you some bandages, we'll get you the ouchless bandage for the dog bite. And um, they walk past a cookie nativity and he picks up the Jesus and bites it and says, Jesus, because it tastes bad. And I was just like, that was very well played. I liked I liked that little just little touch point coming back to those little touch points every once in a while to kind of help tie things together a little bit. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

It's it's um it's a really fun movie. It really is. It's it's um it's a I mean, it's a hard movie to to hate on because it just it just does it it everything click kind of clicks, you know. Right like I said, right from that opening scene where they're just going at each other and it's funny and it's kind of messed up, and then like right away when they get in the car with and Leary's abducted her, and he's like, I'm not a hero, and she goes, I can I can promise you he's not a hero, and he that pisses him off, and he's like, he ain't a hero, and Lyri realizes he's like, What the fuck have I gotten myself into? And it just continues to escalate. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 25:10

Uh the scene where he's in the bathroom, they start griping again, and he's like, la la la ma. He's got the wire, and he's just and they're getting louder and he's getting louder until he finally just bursts out and is like, so good. But you know, it's funny because you can just see him like reliving his traumatic childhood with the you know, the bit I think but maybe every child who's ever gone through listening to parents fighting and stuff, and it's just like you just want to drown out that noise because it's so it's so stim overstimulating and and agitating and triggering, even so you it's like it's like his his violent aggression towards them could be because they're triggering his childhood trauma.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

I also I love the scene where he points the gun at grandma and it's like, I'll shoot her. And Christine Berenski goes, go ahead, shoot her. What the fuck do we care?

SPEAKER_07 26:07

Please. Yeah, I like how it gets more and more honest as the movie proceeds, as they all just finally, you know, it's it's it's very pleasing to see them speak their their pieces, and it's also really funny. I love watching um Gus Dennis Leary in the back. Oh, you know, every once in a while switches to him, and he's just enjoying it. Yeah, he's he's fascinated, and then all the and you can just see he's like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

There's a moment where um oh what's uh Carolyn is is yelling and going off to about to the mom about what a terrible person she is and how she's basically trapped her son in this job and in this town and this house, and Leary just walks over and lights her cigarette like as she's talking, she just keeps going, and he's because he's just like, here, baby, let me help you out.

SPEAKER_07 27:00

Boom, you know, smoking together. So good.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

I'm just like he's just like, no, no, no, don't interrupt yourself. Here, here you go. I just like that cigarette, you know.

SPEAKER_07 27:07

I like it so so good. When um when Gary finally st stands up to Connie to you know, and nobody really cares what you think, and and Leary is like you it's easy to miss because it's so quick and everyone's griping, but he's like, he's like, tell her this, tell her this, you know, and he's like coaching Gary to like stand up to her. It's just like oh, it was great.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Referee moments, yeah, slipper socks, medium.

SPEAKER_07 27:35

Yes, oh yeah. I enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting to enjoy it, and I did too. Much much more like I was really captivated by all of the first of all, Spacey and Davis were amazing together. Yeah, yeah, like that was just really, really good.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Really, really good.

SPEAKER_07 27:57

Did they get any awards for this film? Did either I don't I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

Nobody was campaigning for this. I mean, it didn't even come out on Christmas when it was supposed to come. This is this is the actual film debut of JK Simmons.

SPEAKER_07 28:10

Yeah, oh cool. Yeah, I just thought, man, these guys are they are masters, and and especially together, the chemistry between them, like the way that they interact, it's just it was really good.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

It didn't it didn't do super well, it had an$11 million budget and it grossed$11 million. So I but I I'm betting, you know, again, back then when you'd shift through the the product through the different windows, right? Yeah, if you made if you made eleven million dollars in the theater, the rest of it's just gravy.

SPEAKER_06 28:45

Right?

SPEAKER_02 28:45

So your so your you know your broadcasting rights, your cable rights, your DVD sales, all that stuff, your A VHS sales, your rentals, all that stuff's gonna, you know, where you're gonna make all your money. So that's I mean, you know, it was a at least it was a profitable thing to do.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

It is interesting because uh this movie came out on DVD like 20 plus years ago, and that was it. Yeah, it makes me it makes me wonder like if when people die early and their movies kind of disappear too, like if Ted Demi was still around, there'd probably be a special edition Blu-ray of this, but since he isn't around, it just becomes like a catalog title that just gets shuffled, you know. I I I truly think that this is blue uh due for a Blu-ray release. I think of course it is, yeah. I think it's it's just weird how it's just stopped in its tracks back in like 04.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, it's it's got a little cult following. Everybody I've ever talked to who's seen this movie likes it. They're like, you know, yeah, I mean it's a little vulgar, but it's funny. You know, it it reminds me of also we talked about it being you know that classic interloper, but it's also mixed with that classic home for the holidays arguing with the family, you know, thing that that you know that that classic movie that's been done a million fucking times. Um, so it's it's uh I and I kind of like that. Like they shook it up by like, okay, well, how about if we put this really this interloper with a gun and an attitude in the middle of all that? What's what's that gonna you know end up being?

SPEAKER_07 30:10

They really push the well to me. I noticed there's just a lot of like insincerity of suburbia. It just feels like everybody is passive aggressive with each other, nobody likes any they everyone's like the movie starts in there, you know, everyone's greeting the police officers and Merry Christmas, and it's all so friendly and warm and welcoming, and then all of a sudden it just deteriorates, and you realize how you know Santa's a drunk and all everyone's unhappy. Everyone's unhappy.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:41

Nobody can do their jobs the way they want to do it, and yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

And later Dennis Leary would put out a Christmas special called Merry Fucking Christmas. So the theme continues. You know, this movie's called Hostile Hostages in other countries.

SPEAKER_07 30:55

Huh.

SPEAKER_05 30:56

Hostile hostages. Not all. Some places are still called the ref. Uh my last note on it was, and it's controversial, but it's part of that separating the art from the artist thing. Now, even if Kevin Spacey was the greatest person on the face of the planet, I'd probably still be getting a little tired of the Spacey shtick. He's kind of the same guy in every movie with the same angry kind of and of course this is an early version of that before he had really honed it, but it was going, especially in the first part of it, it's just like, oh my god. But he's countered with Judy Davis, who's Australian, completely hiding any trace of an accent. So if I wanted to be critical about the movie at all.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I thought he was I thought he was good. I I agree with you that he has a comes up as the movie goes, though. It's kind of the same character that he does in Swimming with Sharks, um, and and a couple other movies. Like he's got he's definitely got that sort of like a fall into this milieu. I mean, I I would say he's a good actor, he definitely has range, but yeah, I know what you mean. But I also think he's like you said, it's early in screen, and he's really good with this one.

SPEAKER_07 32:07

I haven't seen a lot of his movies of other than usual suspects, and he's not the same, he's completely different in that.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

So he's he's if you see swimming swimming with sharks, especially is very you can see that.

SPEAKER_07 32:18

Yeah, that's I've also seen K-Pax, and again, he was a completely different kind of character.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

So you did call him an alien in this movie at one point. I'm all he's K Pax.

SPEAKER_07 32:27

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Maybe kind of like LA Confidential a bit too.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

Um, I think that is that the one that the the the I think he's in the TV show that he was in where he was all he was like the president or house cards, yeah. Yeah, so that's one of those where it's always the I have the attitude and I'm gonna get shit. And it was like it's like that spacey shtick, is what I'm talking about. You know, it's like if you want the alpacino to be the al Pacino, you know, and it's like you're giving me pure Al Pacino, it's like Tropic Thunder. You went you went full spacey, you gotta pull back a little bit and give the audience something to relate to.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

And to be fair, uh we go we get a full Dennis Leary at the end as he's driving the boat off, and he's like, you know what I'm gonna do, Murray? I'm gonna fucking you know at one point. Yeah, heat my house with your ashes. Oh, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:20

I love every time he starts yelling at Murray, Murray gets the sweetest smile on his face, and he just loves it. It cheers him up. He loves this guy, they're buddies, and he doesn't nothing mean that that guy's gonna say. It's it's to him, it's it's like you say, and he loves him.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

You know, it's like when he says, you know, the bartender goes, Is there a Murray here? No, pal, there's no Murray. Is there a fucking waste of life named Murray here? Oh, yeah, here you go. Yeah, Murray's like, Oh, it's my guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:46

Gussie. He calls him Gussie.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

It's like, so well, what do you give it? What do you think?

SPEAKER_07 33:56

The first time I watched it, because I felt the ending was so rushed, and I didn't understand why, and I missed a lot of the crucial scenes, and I only gave it like a two and a half. But then after watching it again, um and really taking a little more time paying attention to some of the details, I realized I and the the lot dialogue and all the quotable ever elements and the psychological stuff that was going on. I was like, Yeah, this is a solid three for me. I'd I loved it. I would watch this again easily.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah, the rewatchability factor is very high for me on this.

SPEAKER_07 34:30

Yeah, it was really aside from a kind of weak ending, it still was very satisfying and and cathartic. You know, it's just really you feel cathartic for the characters as they say their piece. I just really love that.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Still a better ending than if if than had he turned himself into the cops, though, right? Totally agreed. Yeah, you want to see him get away. For sure. You know, he's a he's a thief, but we don't want to see him go to jail.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

We want to see him get away for sure. I I I think it is a little too the last 20 minutes for me, kind of let the movie down, right? A little bit because they just that they went for an easier ending. I I definitely don't want to see him get arrested, but I also want to see him maybe get away and maybe it ended a little differently, right? But for the most part, um, I really enjoy this movie. I think it's like my cousin Vinny. It's like you you can put it on, and a lot of different people can watch it and enjoy it, you know. It's a little vulgar, so it's not for kids.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

But at the same time, stop arguing and watch other people argue.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

It's exactly and well, it's like, but it's but it's also the perfect perfect example of like, hey, maybe we shouldn't be like these people and argue at the table and argue during Christmas. Like, my family has a strict rules about that shit. When we get together, we don't do that. We don't talk about stuff that would cause arguments. We talk about the weather and deer hunting or whatever other crazy shit, but we don't, or cars or football, but we don't talk about the politics and the whatever's right. So anyway, uh stretching all over the place, I guess. Three and a half stars is what I'm gonna give it. Yeah, I almost I I I I want to give it four, but that last 20 minutes, if the ending had just been a little bit different and a little less kind of um I guess simple or easy, right? It was just a little too easy, right? Like, man, I wish it I wish she'd come up with something different there. What about you, Marty?

SPEAKER_05 36:22

Uh the one last note is the uh I guess grandma, I guess you would call her, mom. Glennis Johns. Glennis Johns lived to be a hundred years old in three months. She just passed last year. Wow. She was one of the last of the original like early film.

SPEAKER_07 36:43

I recognized her face. I haven't I don't know what she actually Mary Poppins.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

She was grandma and superstar. Um, yeah. But yeah, I was like, damn, so they had to wait a long time, and they never got that inheritance. And the rest part two. Uh look, compared to a lot of the other Christmas movies we had to watch, I like this one a lot more. It's always weird watching these Christmas movies in October or September, and you're pulling out of the context, you know. But I still like the movie. Uh two and a half. It's fine, you know. It dragged a little, you know, and it was dick, but it's it's funny. I like it more hearing you all talk about it, actually.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

I I like uh for me, uh I I don't like a lot of Christmas movies mainly because they've been shown so much. So it's nice. That's I think that's why I'm digging this like violent Santa. It's yeah, it's a nice change of pace. And these are the ones that's like, and I think that's why a lot of people are like, Die Hard's a Christmas movie, because there's Christmas in the movie, and it's like it's not about Christmas, it's not a Christmas movie, but they want an excuse to watch something that isn't fucking it's a wonderful life. This one really is Christmas movie, but this one is a Christmas movie. I mean, there's they're giving each other presents. Yeah, it's it's a it's about Christmas, pretty much, you know.

SPEAKER_07 38:08

Yeah, uh, one more note about it. It when when Leary pulls the Jesus out of the tr uh trunk, I felt like that was the moment, or it was part of the moment when the whole film when it changes gears and he's happy all of a sudden, they have the couple has a happy moment, and it's like it's just a symbol of like finding Christmas or satisfaction, the spirit of Christmas, something like that.

SPEAKER_05 38:35

It's not for everybody, but it would make more sense to watch this on Christmas for me then because then I can feel the spirit of Christmas coming through the movie. I like to watch bleak weird movies on Christmas.

SPEAKER_07 38:48

It is Christmas. This isn't in October. It's Christmas.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

You can put on the most listeners, it's Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Don't let Marty Gaslight.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

You can put on the most disturbing, it's three days before Christmas. You can put on the most disturbing, weirdest movie for Christmas, and Christmas somehow makes it light. I always like putting on really bizarre non-Christmas movies on Christmas and going, Wow, I feel good about humanity, even though I just watched like The Shining or something, you know. But, anyways, let's get back into that Christmas mood with well, I'm I'm mostly finished, so let's just celebrate another Finnish Christmas movie, right? We did six years ago. That was not a Christmas movie, but it was a finished movie set in the snow. We're not doing Frankenhookercliffe, we're doing Rare Exports from 2010. Now I watched the Joe Bob version, which strangely enough, he had Darcy wearing the candles on her head during the host segments. And I'm like, That's funny, this has a candle with the ref, but he's just going off on Scandinavian uh holiday folklore and all that fun stuff. But, anyways, what is this movie that doesn't have any women in it called Rare Exports from 2010?

SPEAKER_07 40:11

It's got a lot of naked men in it, though.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Fucking so.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

I haven't seen that since Porky's too. I'm telling you. Fucking elf cock everywhere. We'll get there. We'll get there. We'll get there.

SPEAKER_07 40:21

Old man elf cock.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yes, no shit. Okay, we'll get there. We'll get there. Jessica, what were you thinking? Rare Exports 2010, rated R, hour and 24 minutes. In the depths of the Corvantunturi Mountains, 486 meters deep, lies the closest ever guarded secret of Christmas. The time has come to dig it up. This Christmas, everyone will believe in Santa Claus. Drecked by Jalmari Healender, written by Jalmari Healender and Juso Healender, uh, stars Jorma Tomila from Sisu and his son Omni Tomila, who's also been in Sisu and I think also Big Game is another big movie that that this director did, uh, which also stars Samuel L. Jackson. When you're making a movie in Finland, you're probably doing it with one of these people. Probably doing it with one of these.

SPEAKER_05 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

So, storyline on Christmas Eve in Finland, Santa Claus is unearthed in an archaeological dig soon after children start disappearing, leading a boy and his father to capture Santa, and with the help of fellow hunters, they look to sell him back to the corporation that sponsored the dig. And then there's Santa's elves who are determined to free their leader. I guess that's kind of what happens.

SPEAKER_05 41:29

Yeah, it doesn't happen that succinctly or quickly, but that is what happens.

SPEAKER_07 41:34

Or even that obviously.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Um, as you're just kind of watching things unfold and watching this kid. Uh yeah. So yeah. But my my first note is that poor kid's fucking haircut. Why did they do that to that kid? That is the worst fucking haircut I've ever seen on a kid. You put this kid in a movie with that haircut. Like it looks like somebody hacked at his fucking hair with a like a knife. Just like, here, you need a hair, here, let me cheer, come here. You know.

SPEAKER_07 42:10

Well, his dad's a butcher, so it's took an axe to his hair.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

Fuck. I just wanted him to put some pants on.

SPEAKER_07 42:18

Yeah. Well, like they're running around in the ice and snow, and he's got his little underwear on, his little sweater. And I'm like, what is it with these Finnish people? I guess they don't care.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

They get used to the used to the cold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:32

I chose this movie because it is actually the first of the Christmas horror type films I'd ever seen. And I rem I actually remembered it when I um it's not as scary as I thought it was. Like remembered it being. I don't know. I think I might have in or not scary, but not as violent. Like you never actually see, aside from the pig being slaughtered, you don't see any violence.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

It's true, there's not a lot of graphic violence in this. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:04

And but um no, I just remember enjoying it. I mean, again, it's been more than 10 years since I saw it, so I don't didn't remember a lot, but I remembered that it was funny and clever and very unlike any Christmas movie I'd ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

So it's like it's like bad Santa if bad Santa wasn't funny, right? Like, I mean, it's just like like it it I don't I don't know how else to put it. It's it's uh it's it's it was fascinating. And then the it's got a nice twist at the end when you realize, like, oh, because they they catch that elf and they think it's Santa, and they're like, Oh yeah, we caught fucking Santa. Look, it eats gingerbread and you know all this, and then they're like when they get to the warehouse, they're like, Oh, fuck, that's that's Santa Claus. Well, that's Santa Claus. That big block of ice with the giant horns. And they cut his horns off, which I found really fucking weird. What did they do with them? You never find out what they're saying.

SPEAKER_07 44:03

They cut them off and then they just disappear. Yeah, for what?

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Yeah. I mean, I I guess I mean hunters do that with like, you know, you kill deer or whatever, you take the horse, but that's true, and they are hunters, yeah. And it's interesting that makes sense, but what are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 44:15

Yeah, I thought the most interesting aspect of the movie was uh you're getting to see these uh reindeer husbandry. And you that's like something that most people have no, they never get to see anything like that because it's such a small, yeah, unique go into a different world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

And it it took me a minute to figure out like, oh, these guys are like they're like ran, they're like cattle ranchers for reindeer, right? They're all in a big they're all in a big collective and they all you know, they all bring their herds in and they call their herds at the same time and help each other out. There's a lot of local farmers and local cattle ranchers that'll do that with each other. So that made when once I caught that, I was like, Oh, that's cool. I'd like Marty said, I've never seen that with reindeer. I didn't even think they did that, but yeah, then again, reindeer meat, deer meat, it's all you know, protein, I guess. Yeah, that's expensive, apparently. Yeah, 85,000. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 45:09

I like how the movie is kind of really told from the little kid's perspective. I mean, even though it's not completely, but um, like I like when they're spying on the miners digging up, you know, digging things up, and the little kid, I don't know how he figures out that they're digging up Santa, but he knows he's like, Yeah, they're digging up Santa and he's talking to us to and he's talking to his buddy, and he's like, he's like, but Santa's dead? Well, then who the hell was the guy that came for it that was Santa at Christmas time? And the other kids is like, he there, they've been lying to us, and it's just like this whole thing. And then he goes and he's researching about Santa, and he's got this amazing book with all of those drawings of the devil, and you know, this Santa I guess it's like a like a Krampus Santa type legend, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

Yeah, but makes Krampus look uh weak compared. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 46:05

This giant horned hairy beast that's sitting on a pile of skulls, and I like where he's coloring in the hat, and the hat follows the shape of these horns in the drawing. He's like, he's got a crayon, and he's and he's like, and then he realizes this is Santa. He's like, he's he's the you know, I don't know, there's little things like that. But I also kind of like I noticed there's a lot of transitions in the scenes where like they're not they're not really worried about um making every detail right, they're not worried about transitioning, like when when Santa gets loaded into the back of the truck and all of a sudden he's in a cage, and then the next time when when they unload him, like they've got him, they're tucking him on this little truck and they're pulling him the manual thing, and you never see it's like it takes two seconds, but how did they get the truck there? How did they get the it's the opposite of the ref.

SPEAKER_05 47:00

They don't show you a lot, they just tell you about the stuff that happened. I think it's a budget limitation.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Yeah, well, yeah, it's a two million dollar movie or two two million euros, so for about four almost four million. Eighty five.

SPEAKER_07 47:12

I took it as also like this is a myth, this is a story about a myth, about the mythical creature or whatever, and you don't need to know those mundane details. This is a magical world where this Santa guy controls the minds of all these random old men. Where the hell did they come from? You know, like one of my theories. I wrote down a whole bunch of theories because I'm like, where do these guys come from? Were they people that were living their lives and all of a sudden their minds were stolen and taken over when Santa got unearthed?

SPEAKER_05 47:42

And now we human trafficking across the planet.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Were they transferred from the that's the fucking that's the ending I don't get where it's like, wait a minute. So they're paying$85,000. So somebody's paying$85,000 to have a fucking Santa airmailed to them. What the fuck is a mall Santa, basically?

SPEAKER_07 48:02

Yeah, like what the fuck is this? And what happened to their brains? Like, so I I started thinking, okay, well, maybe they were the reindeer. Maybe the when Santa's power came, they transformed the reindeer into these little old men elves, and that's why they're mindless.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Like when they at the end of the day, oh maybe, maybe maybe that's well, no, because I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 48:20

Because they because you can see like at the cutscene at the end, they all the reindeer are dead. Well, yeah, but they were transformed. The body, the physical form, you know, substance to create an the elves, because you can't create create something from nothing. This is my brain trying to justify this stuff. The director just has an obsession, so yeah, but but but there's a scene like at the end where it's like um 312 days to Christmas, so a couple months have passed, and they've got all these old men, naked old men in the slaughterhouse underneath the hoses, washing them down, and there's like grass being washed off of them and stuff, and you're like, have they been out in that pasture for two or three months now? They were just naked in the pasture through spring, through the end of winter and spring, and they're still eating gingerbread, and and I'm like, okay, so maybe they were maybe they have the minds of the reindeer, maybe they that just that's where I'm like, they're hurt and they have to be, but then I was like, no, because they're carnivorous and they have to train them not to attack children.

SPEAKER_08 49:21

So just this movie's version of elves, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:24

It's like so weird, it makes no sense. And I'm like, you know what? I think I just have to accept that it's not gonna make any sense.

SPEAKER_05 49:33

You know, I look at this movie like a kaiju film in a way. The little kids like Kenny, he's friends with Gamera, he knows everything about the monster and how to you know defeat it and all this. And like you said, it's from the viewpoint of the kid, yet it's a movie that no kid should have any business seeing because there's just too much wang.

SPEAKER_07 49:51

It's not a children's movie.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

It's so much, it's so much Wang.

SPEAKER_07 49:54

I was like, who is this movie for? Because it it's not a comedy, not really. I mean, there's funny scenes, but it's really not much of a comedy, it's not really a horror movie. There's a couple, there's a couple of jump scares that you know, little like when he when the um elf guy goes and bites what's his uh paperin's ear off or whatever, and you know, little scenes like that, but and it's gory, so it's definitely not a kid's movie, and with all the and all the nudity of the naked men running around, all the violent that many ways.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

Kids would love those movies, but they shouldn't be seeing those movies.

SPEAKER_07 50:32

Well, yeah, that wasn't I wrote that down. I was like, that's the kind of movie that you sneak and watch as a kid because you're fascinated. But then uh my final conclusion, my final conclusion is that it's a film for movie buffs who hate traditional Christmas films and want something weird instead. It definitely because that's who's watching it now, I think.

SPEAKER_05 50:56

It made me think that no wonder people make horror films out of things like Winnie the Pooh and and Popeye and all this shit that goes public domain because it's like like the Santa Claus thing. It's like there's a need for a Grimm's fairy tale dark version of these legends or things, and well, that's where Santa Claus came from.

SPEAKER_07 51:15

He was he was a dark character that was you know to keep the kids in line, you know. Santa's gonna eat you if you don't behave. It wasn't Santa's gonna give you a lump of coal for Christmas, it was he's going to eat your bones, and you're going to be there. Um, but but also like the just the mythology of Santa. Um there's actually some links across different, you know, Germanic cultures and stuff. And Santa is kind of related to Odin. He could be a a different, a modern or a more an evolved version of Odin as Christianity took over and the pagan beliefs kind of faded out.

SPEAKER_05 51:57

Like we saw in Violet Night, where like we saw in Violent Night Powers in the past, you know.

SPEAKER_07 52:02

Right. And there's there's even a scene where um I I don't know if it was Violent Night or one of the other ones where he's got actually has an eye patch because he's got his eye and Odin was one-eyed and oh, was that Fat Man? Fat Man, yeah, exactly. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 52:16

Yeah, that's Fat Man.

SPEAKER_07 52:17

And so like there's all these I love that because I love mythology. I'm all I'm way into all the old mythologies and stuff. And like Odin or Santa was actually part of the wild hunt back in, you know, like would go on in these the original um I don't know if it was Sinterklaas or one one of the different variations was very wild man, green man hunting sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 52:40

So yeah, I've said it before, I'll say it again. Santa could beat up hereditary and sinister, is much more powerful than some of these weak ass demon movies. It's like, oh well, wait until they meet Santa Claus in the sequel. Look the fuck out, because there's gonna be some asking.

SPEAKER_07 52:58

Yeah, I did I really did enjoy the other Santa movies. I um especially Violent Night. That one just cracked me up. That was but anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:07

It's kind of a weird trilogy we've created. The Violent Night Fat Man Rare Exports of just you want some bizarre violence on about Anna on Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

I'm telling you, this this bizarre violent Santa uh kind of niche is really issues. It appeals to people. It's intriguing. I like it. I can't think of any other movies where, and I guess he isn't really the bad guy in this movie, but I can't think of any movies where Santa Claus is actually, and I'm talking about actually Santa Claus, not somebody wearing a Santa Claus suit, is actually the bad guy. That would be uh, I think I I thought you might not think of one, but I'm not and again, I'm not talking about somebody who just dressed up as Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_05 53:49

I think it's called Christmas Evil. Okay. And if I'm getting the title right, and spoiler, you think he's just a crazy guy in the Santa outfit getting vengeance on the naughty, and then at the end you find out he really was fucking Santa. So but other than that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 54:04

Yeah, because this guy was I mean, I I kept thinking of him as he's just frozen and ice, so yeah, he's not really doing anything.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Yeah, he's a bad guy when he's frozen and ice, but he's also not doing anything, it's just his elf, elf henchmen running around. It was a little bit of a disappointment. I'm like, I want to see Santa. I like that bait and switch though. Like when they captured him in the and they capture him and they're like, I got Santa, and then you're like, Oh shit, that's not fucking Santa.

SPEAKER_07 54:26

Good moments, but yeah, that was a great moment when he really no, that's not Santa. Everybody smile right now. Be nice right now. Be nice, yeah, because he's around here somewhere. I love the safety list.

SPEAKER_05 54:41

The rules for surviving.

SPEAKER_07 54:42

The rules, yeah. Make no loud noises, always behave, don't smoke, do not drink alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

It's I found it, I found it convenient, of course, that one of them can fly a helicopter. Um, the again, much like the ref, the ending kind of sort of a little bit lets the movie down. Uh I didn't know. The kid screaming Yahoo as he's on the city. It's a little unforgivable. Yeah, it's just uh but I mean again for for three 3.7, 3.8 million dollars American things.

SPEAKER_05 55:16

It's very early in the Cisu and you see he's made a much better movie with the Sisu's Cisu's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

I I mean out of the three movies he's made or that he has that I have to see can't see him credited for, I mean, Cisu's awesome. Yeah. And same actor too, which is really impressive. This is a kind of I can make a movie movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Yeah. Uh yay, we killed Santa Claus. Woohoo! I don't know of another movie where you cheer killing Santa Claus, but this is this is that movie. There was Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_07 55:47

There were a lot of nice little scenes in it though. Um, I mean, I like I I liked the I don't know if you know remember or notice the advent calendar and when he's stapling, he staples the 24, the last day, he staples it closed, and then he walks at the end of the movie, he walks up to that warehouse and he's like the last door, and it's got the exact same pattern and the 24. I like that little bit of foreshadowing sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

He's he's real good. I mean, uh Jamari's a he's a good visual filmmaker. He tells a story with the camera. Uh uh, he wrote this too, so yeah, he writes a pretty decent, decent film. It's not like um, you know, it's it's it's miles above a lot of the indie stuff that I've seen. You know, it's it's definitely, you know, I think especially for a like a Finnish film, it's pretty, pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 56:35

I like it more than like Scrooged, I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Yeah, I could I could go with that. I mean, I like Scrooge too, but yeah, this is this is yeah, they're probably I think about the same level. I like the ref more than both of them for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 56:51

Um, but I I still I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

This movie it the the biggest turnoff for me is just that it's a lot of dick. There's just it's so much elf dick. It's everywhere. It's flopping around, running at me in the camera. Like even the kid, like one point is just like, holy shit. And he's even he's like, they should have had him say, that's a lot of dick, because it would have been hilarious. But you know, it's just a lot of it's just a lot of old man wang. It's a lot of a lot of it.

SPEAKER_07 57:20

I don't remember that from the first time I saw it. I wonder if I saw a version where they edited that out or something. Maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

I I I mean, but and it what what what got me was like there's a scene where I'm pretty sure it's just digital and they were still like, gotta put the wings in. Like we can't make it fuzzy. Come on, put them wings in.

SPEAKER_07 57:36

Yeah, I was glad it was kind of they were always at night.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 57:40

At least it was in shadow. Right.

SPEAKER_05 57:42

They're getting showered off.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Until they're getting showered off, right?

SPEAKER_05 57:45

And then it's wanged.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Except the end, yeah. And then it's everybody wang chung tonight.

SPEAKER_05 57:51

Yeah. It's funny because usually when they are trying to ape an American film, and usually Americans are like, you can have all the violence you want, but no sex. Don't you show no wangs. This movie would have been uh unrated back in the day for all of that. It probably is.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

Well, it's and and again, the sensibilities and you're different, you know. I mean, cultural sensibilities about that stuff are different. Different cultural differences, yeah. Um, these people are these people are jumping in saunas together.

SPEAKER_07 58:18

So as a visual person or ex-graphic designer, whatever, I really love the Santa logo on the box.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:29

I want a t-shirt with that logo. I don't want the text, I don't need rare exports. I just want the octag the hexagon with the Santa man in the you know, one color in the beard. I just graphically, I just love that. It was that's good.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Um, and I love the little kids' armor with the he's got like he's got like duct tape on his ass reversely.

SPEAKER_07 58:52

Cardboard and duct tape on his ass. Because Santa spanks the kids. I mean, that's you get switched.

SPEAKER_02 58:57

I really I did think it was funny where he was just like he just comes up to his dad with a stick and he's like, here, and he just drops his pants, like, you better beat my ass, you know.

SPEAKER_07 59:04

Fifteen strokes should do it.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah, 15 strokes should do it.

SPEAKER_07 59:07

And he's like, but and his dad is like, why? I've been naughty. Because he they because he let the he opened the gate that let the uh bad Santas or whatever, the little the elves.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Yeah, well they cut the they cut the yeah, they cut the wire that let him in. Yeah, yeah, let him out. And then the elves got in to eat the caribou, or maybe, or they they became the kid, they found the caribou and then bust out of them like fucking hand solo out of a tauntaun.

SPEAKER_07 59:34

Exactly. Bam. Because I was like, that's a lot of you know, I don't know, it was weird. I just don't know the mythology of that, but there's actually two um two prequel sort of things that were shorts, film shorts, that this was based on that I think they use and they are the first one is very short and it's okay. The second one is fantastic. It's uh um and it's it's a it's called something about the safety rules. Um if you Google it, it's on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

Oh, the official rare export safety instructions.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:11

Yes, that one is fantastic. It's better. I think it's actually better than this movie. I wish that they had there's a there's some great little scenes.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:20

That's what happens sometimes. The short is I mean, it's very different to the whole film.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:24

Yeah, it's it's a lot different, but at the same time, it's still this concept of hunting Santa's and oh they did a seek they did a sequel to CSU.

unknown 1:00:34

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Oh yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:37

It's gonna be out like in um well, it will be out when this is out.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

Interesting. Sorry, uh you were saying my apologies. I totally sidetracked you. That's rude.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:46

Yeah, I I know I had the kind of similar reaction when I saw that because I was looking up, I wanted to look up the actor, uh, you know, the guy that plays the dad. And then I was like, because I felt like I recognized him, but I wasn't sure why. And then I saw that he was also in C soon. I was like, hello, okay, I got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Yeah, that that led me to the when I saw him and the kid together, I was like, I know that kid was in big game, which I saw and thought, well, that's that was not a terrible movie to have a kid and for it to be an action film and a star be you know made in it by uh a foreign country but still have a uh an American actor in it and all that stuff. It was really well done, I thought. But um, and then of course you get uh Jorma's in that one, and then of course he they're both in Rare Exports and in Cisu, so it was interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:35

So I I just wonder what they're gonna do in the sequel because I felt like the fur the the original Cisu was was fine. It would it ended the way it needed it. It doesn't need to go anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

Yeah, I don't I don't think it needed to do anything else either. Yeah, same. We'll see.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:49

I mean it's just some movies just should be standalone, just let it be.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Just leave it leave it alone. Yep. So well, what do you give it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Um unless you got do you have any more notes? Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:02

Uh let me why don't you talk?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

I think I think uh let me just talk amongst yourselves while I check my notes.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:10

Uh yeah, kind of.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

And no sequels for these movies. No.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:17

No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:19

But a lot of elf dicks.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Yeah, yep, I got all my notes.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:22

Let's see. I took a bunch of notes.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:25

If they do make a sequel, they should combine the two movies, and Dennis Leary can make jokes about how there's too much elf dick for the god, why do we have to have so much elf dick here?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

Would you put some pants on these old men? Where are the cigarettes?

SPEAKER_07 1:02:47

Um yeah, no, I I think the biggest thing that I love that I was left with um at the end of the film was what where did those Santa elves whatever come from and where did they take Santa's horns? I wanted to know. Like I was literally I actually wrote down I need to know.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

Put them over the fireplace.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:12

Probably might be hanging in the from the ceiling of the of the uh slaughterhouse, I don't know the reindeer slaughterhouse or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

Chopped them up and sold them to Chinese apothecaries for for uh uh you know to cure impotence.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:24

And I I was a little critical of like when they were loading all the kids into the net. I'm like, where did that net come from in the warehouse? And where how did they open how did they open the roof of the warehouse all of a sudden to go for to get the helicopter? And I was like, okay, this does not bear too much scrutinization.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

Just yeah, you can't wrap it up. Yeah, yeah. The minute you start picking it, this this one it starts falling apart pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:48

Yeah, it's it is fun, it's enjoyable. I love certain scenes like the footprints next to the kid's window and how he stays up all night and keeps falling asleep. And there's some charming bits, there's some funny bits, like when after they they um hang the the one Santa thing that the the elf that they think is the Santa in the slaughterhouse, and they're all just sitting there staring at him and eating the gingerbread cookies, you know. Like I like those moments. Um, I gave it a three. I I just couldn't forgive some of the the weird all of a sudden action movie part where the kids swinging from the helicopter and all English shots and and all of a sudden, you know, doing stuff that he would have no idea how to do. Uh you know, that uh he suddenly became very capable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Where he is he had been kind of just a whiny kid up to that point. He was suddenly very you know, step stepped into action, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:45

They could have done a better job of making it a little more believable by being a little more subtle with it. Like I could see him stepping in and having some ideas and stuff, but not to the point where he's like bossing them over. Running the show, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:56

He's Kenny, he knows all about the giant monsters, you know. He's gonna tell the Navy, Army, and Air Force what to do to capture camera. You know, how did this kid get into this meeting? Well, he's he's he's Kenny, he has the power. Yeah, it's where it lost me to was that last 20 minutes where it almost felt like it was a different movie. And then like, well, they're just trying to wrap things up and yeah. The movie I thought was very interesting in the beginning, and then its pacing was just kind of slow and weird, and then by the time it started to show me stuff, it bait and switched so much to where I was like, Well, where's Santa? Now you're human trafficking? I liked it more than screwed.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

They're elves, Marty. They're not human trafficking, he's elf trafficking.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:44

And there's no careful.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

There's no there's nothing illegal about that. There are no laws against elf track elf tracking. Oh elf trafficking, I'm sorry. One and a half.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:54

I I I thought it was all right, but I didn't really care for it that much. The last 20 minutes is what gave it the note. Diet because I was kind of riding on a two, a two and a half, and then the next thing you know, the kids and action star hanging on the thing, like you were saying, and the the bad CG. I knew they did what they could, but yeah, it just kind of fell apart for me. I still kind of liked it in a way, though.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:17

Yeah, I enjoyed it up to that point enough that I would still give it a three because I think I would still recommend it.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:23

You know, it's kind of weird.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:24

I'd still watch it. Uh maybe not uh, you know, I might wait another what a couple years, but I'd probably still watch it with the right crowd.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:32

I don't want to watch It's a Wonderful Life or Home Alone Again. Put on this movie. I'll watch this movie again.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:36

Yeah, let's shock some people. I don't even see Christmas story again.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

No, that's and that's and that's just that's just it. Yeah, yeah. Hey, put the old I'd rather watch the old mancock than George, did George scru go r screaming down the street after realizing that he likes his life. Can you get that in the repair?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:53

I would like to see a uh um the um, I don't know, a different version. Like, I don't think I checked, I looked to see if there was multiple release versions, and I don't think there are. So I think that all of that nudity was in there, and I would like to see like they could cut a lot of that out, like cut cut some of that stuff out, make it less you know weird. One of the oh, there was a mind the shock value.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:18

I just wanted it to be a little more coherent in the last 12.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

Yeah, it's it's it's still not a I mean you're not if you cut it out, it's still not a child-friendly movie, so it's not like you know, so you you know, might as well leave it in.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:28

My favorite review from the from um I guess it was Rotten Tomatoes was funny, but at the same time kind of creepy in a weird way. I was like, yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Pretty much. Uh, I think uh two, I'm right in the middle, two and a half stars. I think it's well made. Um, you know, it's it's it's competent filmmaking, it looks fun, it looks good. I I noticed that the the explosion at the very beginning, like it the smoke curls into two horns, which is kind of cool. Um, so there's little subtle little nods. He's a good filmmaker. Um this is early in his career where he's getting things going, so I think it's his first big feature. So uh yeah, I thought pretty well done for that. Yeah, based on shorts, I I he was real you know, it's also very smart filmmaking. You know, hey, I I only have I only need three or four structures, we're out in the middle of nowhere. All we gotta do is hit go to the location, post up for a little while and get it taken care of, right? It's not like I'm, you know, we gotta fly to the desert over here, we gotta go over here, or I've got to, you know, it it seemed to me like very smart filmmaking.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:30

You know, my one last note about it is movies that are just all men and movies that are just all women, they're usually kind of bizarre, aren't they? It's I find it better when we mix it together a little bit. I mean, these movies have their place, and you can't really say this is like super testosterone driven, but there are no women and there's a lot of Wang. So I don't know.

unknown 1:08:56

Women and Wang.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

That was the original title of the film. Why the fuck not? Yeah, exactly. Right. Women and Wang. Maybe I'm tapping into the subtext of the film. Next week you're watching Rare Exports again because we have to get to the bottom of this. No, next week we'll have our New Year's episode, and uh you don't have to tell me what your New Year's episode is, Cliff, because you told me last week at the end of episode 99. So we'll be watching those next week for the last show of the year.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Right on. Um, do you guys got a quote you want to go out on before we get out of here?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:34

It's cutting edge technology in Russia.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:39

If you don't mind, the corpse still has the floor.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

You want to see Santa farting down everybody's chimneys, huh? Do ya? And and the answer to that is a kid is yeah, kinda. All right. Jessica, thanks so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:55

Thank you for having me. Happy 100th uh episode. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

Listener, thanks for listening. If you've been listening the whole time, thanks for listening. And um, hopefully you're doing it. Hit that like or subscribe button. Smash that button. That's right. You'll hear us, you'll hear us say it at the end of the episode. All right, let's get out of here. We'll see ya.