Breakheart Pass and Anatomy of a Murder with Frank Dietz - Talking Pondo

 In this episode, Frank Dietz joins the podcast. He brings along the movie Breakheart Pass. Marty and Clif give Frank the movie Anatomy of a Murder to watch. 

First is Anatomy of a Murder.  A gripping courtroom drama from Otto Preminger starring James Stewart. With standout performances from George C. Scott and Lee Remick, the film pushes boundaries with its themes, sharp dialogue, and unforgettable trial sequences.

Then it’s on to Breakheart Pass, where Charles Bronson leads a western that turns into a full-on murder mystery. Set aboard a snowbound train, it’s less shootout and more whodunit. Think Agatha Christie meets the Old West, with paranoia, twists, and a killer hiding in plain sight.

#TalkingPondo #FilmPodcast #MovieReview #ClassicCinema #AnatomyOfAMurder #BreakheartPass #CharlesBronson #JamesStewart 

Transcript

00:00:00.18
Clifton Campbell
um right, Marty, that's us.

00:00:01.72
Marty Ketola
Charles and Charles won't be seen tonight, so we may bring you the following character actor study.

00:00:08.52
Clifton Campbell
Hmm.

00:00:08.41
Marty Ketola
Because, you know, you had Charles Bronson and Charles Durning. We could spin them off into their own sitcom together, Charles and Charles.

00:00:15.67
Clifton Campbell
say Okay. I keep expecting a Charles in charge to joke here and you're missing it. You're not going to, you're not going to go Scott Baio on me.

00:00:22.62
Marty Ketola
No, no.

00:00:23.58
Clifton Campbell
Okay.

00:00:24.04
Frank Dietz
Thank you.

00:00:24.34
Clifton Campbell
All right.

00:00:24.22
Marty Ketola
but If he had been in the movie, probably.

00:00:30.07
Clifton Campbell
right, well, we're back for another one.

00:00:30.10
Marty Ketola
I know that one was abstracted. Yeah, we are back for another one. It's Talking Pondo. it says It's me, Marty. We got Cliff over here and we we have a special guest today. We're going to get to him in just a second, but we want to let you know that the movies today are Anatomy of a Murderer.

00:00:44.58
Clifton Campbell
Right cart. Oh, I went the other way.

00:00:45.85
Marty Ketola
And Breitkart Pass. I want Anatomy on a murder of a Murderer. But they're both a pretty good classics. We haven't talked about some westerns on here enough.

00:00:59.06
Marty Ketola
And Cliff wanted at more westerns, and we got them.

00:01:01.91
Clifton Campbell
More sci-fi too. More sci-fi because, well, we've talked about that.

00:01:03.13
Marty Ketola
Yes.

00:01:05.54
Clifton Campbell
Sci-fi and Westerns are almost closely in the same bucket, kind of, in my opinion.

00:01:10.04
Marty Ketola
That can be, yeah.

00:01:11.35
Clifton Campbell
But, guys, we've got a fantastic guest. um You know, we had Chris and, oh, gosh, what was her name from, yeah, Charlotte.

00:01:18.85
Marty Ketola
Thanks, Charlie.

00:01:20.80
Clifton Campbell
And we felt pretty chuffed to get them on the show. Felt like we were collecting a lot of masks, creating an orbit, right? i get Now look at this one. Look at this one, guys. Come on.

00:01:30.55
Marty Ketola
ah

00:01:32.12
Clifton Campbell
Who we got, Marty?

00:01:32.12
Marty Ketola
Today, today we got, oh, you know, I'm from ah his his long laundry list of credits. But, you know, we're hardcore misties around here. So he's probably already ready for this one. You know, I'm from Zombie Nightmare and Black Roses, too. But that's another classic. It's Frank Dietz.

00:01:49.56
Clifton Campbell
Yes.

00:01:49.79
Frank Dietz
Hey,

00:01:51.67
Clifton Campbell
Welcome, Frank.

00:01:52.95
Frank Dietz
thank you guys. Pleasure to be here.

00:01:55.48
Clifton Campbell
Yes, we're excited.

00:01:56.22
Frank Dietz
At my age, it's a pleasure to be anywhere.

00:01:56.36
Clifton Campbell
Thank you so much for coming here.

00:01:58.62
Frank Dietz
Isn't that the joke, right?

00:02:02.19
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:02:03.29
Clifton Campbell
Oh boy. um So super excited to have you on

00:02:06.39
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:02:07.95
Clifton Campbell
Frank's been, for those of you who don't know, Frank's been in the business for a long time. He's got quite a few credits. We won't go through them all. But like Marty said, he's done some, he's got some MST classics under his belt and kind enough to come on the show again. Thank you so much.

00:02:21.78
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:02:22.19
Frank Dietz
Sure. Yeah, my pleasure.

00:02:23.00
Clifton Campbell
Really excited.

00:02:23.58
Frank Dietz
was excited

00:02:24.86
Clifton Campbell
um So anatomy of a murder and break our past. do we have any, any fan mail before we get going?

00:02:29.72
Marty Ketola
We do have a little bit of viewer mail that we'll do real quick here.

00:02:33.56
Clifton Campbell
Bring it, bring it, bring it.

00:02:36.25
Marty Ketola
If sometimes I realize I don't make complete sentences and I listen to the show back and i'm like, I am just all over the place. But as long as the listeners know what I'm trying to say, right? Too much caffeine sometimes. So let's start with this response about our episode on the Love Witch and Blade Runner, the final cut.

00:02:55.17
Marty Ketola
where we had Ben from ah over at the Too Vague podcast who says, am I the only one who prefers the theatrical release of Blade Runner?

00:02:55.37
Clifton Campbell
That was fun.

00:03:03.29
Marty Ketola
Well, we do too, right, Cliff? We like the narration one the most.

00:03:07.29
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, but I like the narration. Yeah, i I prefer that director's cut, I think, a little bit more, but I do like that.

00:03:12.82
Marty Ketola
Yeah, yeah.

00:03:13.63
Clifton Campbell
I do like that narration. i don't like that final cut where they pull all that out and they start leaning towards him being a replicant. I just, eh.

00:03:19.93
Marty Ketola
Where do you stand on on the cuts of Blade Runner, Frank?

00:03:21.75
Clifton Campbell
Frank, where do you stand on the cuts of Blade Runner?

00:03:22.84
Frank Dietz
Well, I like the theatrical and i like it because i like the whole sort of neo-noir look and feel.

00:03:26.95
Clifton Campbell
My bad.

00:03:30.03
Clifton Campbell
Leonore.

00:03:32.24
Frank Dietz
I mean, you know, if that movie was made in 1943, it would have, you know, Bogart or somebody doing the the narration.

00:03:37.34
Clifton Campbell
Yes. Yes.

00:03:40.48
Frank Dietz
So it makes sense to me. and and the

00:03:43.83
Clifton Campbell
Script by Chandler and starring Bogart. Yes. Yeah.

00:03:46.42
Frank Dietz
Yeah, there you go. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:49.08
Clifton Campbell
yeah

00:03:49.24
Frank Dietz
um But yeah, I mean, that's why that's why I thought it worked to you know to begin with. um And so my my heart is always going to be with the theatrical cut because it's also the one I saw in the movie theater you know when it came out.

00:04:04.58
Frank Dietz
So you know there's always a a bit of nostalgia to to that. So yeah, umm um'm I'm team theatrical on this.

00:04:09.60
Clifton Campbell
Same. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. See, there you go.

00:04:15.10
Marty Ketola
That was some of our reasoning too. It was the version we lived with for 10 years before the director's cut came out. And that was the version that we knew. And we, we needed that version to get the director's cut so we could compare and contrast.

00:04:27.46
Marty Ketola
And, you know, but I liked all the different versions of it.

00:04:29.42
Frank Dietz
sure

00:04:32.51
Marty Ketola
Let's see. We also had a letter from Rob Maynard of all people responding on the, uh,

00:04:36.68
Clifton Campbell
Hey.

00:04:36.75
Frank Dietz
hey my boy

00:04:39.38
Marty Ketola
ah Responding on the Love Witch episode, ah we said that the Love Witch was one of those movies that was trying to be bad on purpose because it was trying to be a performative type of act of acting and old style, 60s style.

00:04:47.58
Clifton Campbell
Oh, it was definitely.

00:04:53.88
Marty Ketola
And he says, bad on purpose works, but you have to establish that you can do good on purpose first. Otherwise, i will believe bad is all you're capable of.

00:05:00.52
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:05:04.36
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, I think, but I think that movie, go ahead, Frank.

00:05:05.11
Frank Dietz
That, no, I was going to say that, you know, that does make a lot of sense.

00:05:10.90
Clifton Campbell
True, but I think if you watch The Love Witch, she pulls everything else off so well that you get away with this goofy performative acting in this goofy story because she nails the makeup, she nails the lighting, she nails nails the camera work, she nails, ah oh my God, that i haven't seen i haven't seen compositing like that with driving since, like we've talked about, since like the the Bond movies of the It looked perfect.

00:05:21.67
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:05:27.08
Frank Dietz
Okay. Even.

00:05:33.37
Frank Dietz
Even that that saturated that saturated color, yeah.

00:05:36.22
Clifton Campbell
Yes! Yes!

00:05:37.30
Marty Ketola
hu

00:05:37.66
Clifton Campbell
Yes, exactly. Like that makeup is so perfect and the light hits it and the color of the film.

00:05:38.72
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:05:42.90
Clifton Campbell
She, you know, it's just like, to me, that tells me that you know what you're doing and I'm in good hands and that you're doing all the rest of it on purpose. Right? Like the more I think about that movie, the more I like it. Cause I'm just really impressed with what she pulled off.

00:05:55.74
Clifton Campbell
You know, it was really impressive.

00:05:57.78
Marty Ketola
So it's bad on purpose in order to be good on purpose.

00:05:58.36
Clifton Campbell
Anyway.

00:06:01.35
Marty Ketola
So it's an it's an enigma there, Rob.

00:06:02.23
Clifton Campbell
I think so.

00:06:02.62
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:06:04.22
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:06:04.57
Clifton Campbell
Like a snake eating its own tail in a way.

00:06:05.42
Frank Dietz
that's a small dichotomy not a big deal really yeah

00:06:13.98
Clifton Campbell
We'll hand wave right over it.

00:06:15.45
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:06:15.48
Marty Ketola
Right.

00:06:18.10
Marty Ketola
So always good to get your responses out there, listeners. Keep bringing them to us, and we'll keep reading them on the air. And we got a few more hurrying next go around.

00:06:24.41
Clifton Campbell
Yes. Love to hear from you guys. Yes. Love to hear from you. All right. So.

00:06:31.29
Marty Ketola
Oh, yeah. Two movies today, of course.

00:06:32.93
Clifton Campbell
Two movies today.

00:06:33.77
Marty Ketola
And what movie should we start with, guys? We usually defer to the guest, so.

00:06:37.72
Frank Dietz
Well, I would say alphabetical order.

00:06:40.12
Clifton Campbell
Yes. Anatomy of a Murderer.

00:06:42.30
Marty Ketola
Yeah, yeah. All right.

00:06:43.45
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:43.86
Frank Dietz
can start with that.

00:06:45.11
Clifton Campbell
Okay. All right. Good. Good. Okay. Anatomy of a murder.

00:06:47.21
Marty Ketola
Well, it's funny because, you know, if you're a big mystery science theater fan, and if you also like our, you know, fellow podcasters over at Reels of Justice, you're going to want to do yourself a favor and watch Anatomy of a Murder, not just because of those two things.

00:06:48.60
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:07:02.15
Marty Ketola
It's an awesome movie besides, but... The panties joke gets repeated many times in MST. And i feel like anatomy and murder of a murder is almost the basis for reels of justice because I'm just a simple, humble country lawyer as they've used many times over there.

00:07:19.27
Marty Ketola
So what is this movie that's almost three hours long, but doesn't feel like it?

00:07:20.44
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:07:23.43
Frank Dietz
Oh, no. In fact, I thought I had seen this movie before when you guys offered me...

00:07:30.45
Clifton Campbell
I did too.

00:07:30.62
Marty Ketola
Oh,

00:07:31.47
Frank Dietz
I just so...

00:07:31.95
Clifton Campbell
I did too. Yes. I know what you mean.

00:07:33.66
Frank Dietz
and i i just so I think that because Jimmy Stewart has played that kind of character in so many films that I just assumed

00:07:41.11
Clifton Campbell
Word. Mm-hmm. I'm

00:07:45.68
Frank Dietz
that i had seen it and then i but so then i went and and i i just literally watched it over the last two days just to make sure i was fresh with it um because i'd never seen it before uh it turns out i'd never seen it and when i saw that the uh the running time was two hours and 45 minutes

00:07:47.19
Clifton Campbell
right there with

00:07:58.65
Marty Ketola
Wow.

00:08:06.12
Marty Ketola
Uh-oh.

00:08:07.70
Clifton Campbell
Same, dude.

00:08:08.50
Frank Dietz
i kind of like went oh what did get myself into i'm like i'm at the point where i you know could fall asleep during the trailers before a movie so uh i but but then i look at the cast beyond jimmy stewart who you you look if jimmy stewart's in a movie you know at least

00:08:20.46
Marty Ketola
Thank you.

00:08:31.06
Clifton Campbell
You should probably watch it. Yeah.

00:08:32.38
Frank Dietz
that much of the movie is going to be good right it's it's a given because he was remarkable in any kind of any kind of role that he played he did play a lot of this kind of character um you know it's it's it's he's a little smarter than you know um uh you know shoot now i'm blanking on the name of the uh the movie with claude rains and and uh

00:08:32.50
Clifton Campbell
You know it's going to be pretty decent. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:08:58.29
Frank Dietz
where he's the boy scout who goes to uh mr smith mr smith goes to washington you know this is like he's like an older version of him but he's he's smarter he's smoother um uh and but then i look at this this cast it's fantastic and and

00:09:01.59
Clifton Campbell
Mr. Smith goes to Washington.

00:09:01.66
Marty Ketola
Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:09:02.63
Clifton Campbell
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:16.95
Frank Dietz
i I don't know that I could possibly be any more in love with Lee Remick ah when she was that age and making movies like this and um ah a face in the facing the crowd.

00:09:29.94
Clifton Campbell
Total smoke show.

00:09:32.54
Frank Dietz
you know And she also you know was the original star of ah ah Wait Until Dark on Broadway, um which then um you know she didn't end up in the movie.

00:09:41.45
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:09:41.91
Marty Ketola
Thank you.

00:09:42.46
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:09:45.98
Clifton Campbell
Shoot the movie right.

00:09:46.68
Frank Dietz
um ah but ah but But she's just, she's like this, the all American girl, but what was great about her in this movie is that she's she she's a flirt, like she's a real flirt. And that makes you question,

00:10:06.97
Frank Dietz
Like how much, how much you know, not don't want to cause any controversy here, but I mean, like, did she flirt beyond where she should have for that situation to happen?

00:10:16.57
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:10:18.61
Frank Dietz
Now, if you haven't seen the movie, in a nutshell, it is about ah a ah a military guy played by Ben Gazzara who has confessed to the murder of a man ah who apparently raped his wife or did rape his wife not even apparently and so he he he went and he killed him and then he confessed he said yeah i killed him um and uh so jimmy stewart is uh like a retired uh counselor and he agrees uh uh take take on the uh defense of a guy who's already confessed

00:11:04.44
Frank Dietz
to murder right and uh and so you've got ben gazzara also a great actor um from the sort of john cassavetes peter falk you know group um uh which i always thought was such a cool like yeah that's a rat pack for you right there those guys right you know yeah um and and then you've got also arthur o'connell

00:11:22.79
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, you're no kidding. Yep.

00:11:29.16
Frank Dietz
who's an actor i always really liked a lot um from movies like the seven faces of dr lao and uh i mean just tons of movies actually poseidon adventure he doesn't make it though

00:11:41.43
Clifton Campbell
Oh, we we we did a, we reviewed that about what? Oh gosh, 60 or 70 episodes ago.

00:11:45.46
Marty Ketola
year and a half, something like that, yeah.

00:11:46.71
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah. Little Shelly, Lily, Shelly, Shelly Winters in the water.

00:11:49.85
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:11:50.78
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:11:51.20
Frank Dietz
Man, don't get me started there. We'll we'll tangent off way off somewhere else. um But um but the the real scene stealer, which is saying a lot when you're when you're up against James Stewart, um is ah ah is the the the other side of the defense, and it's and it's and it's George C.

00:12:11.03
Clifton Campbell
short George C.

00:12:11.49
Marty Ketola
Okay.

00:12:11.95
Clifton Campbell
Scott. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:12.89
Frank Dietz
Scott.

00:12:13.87
Clifton Campbell
yeah yeah Who's likes just a crusher of an actor in his own right.

00:12:14.90
Frank Dietz
And he...

00:12:17.82
Clifton Campbell
Like, my God.

00:12:18.23
Frank Dietz
Oh my God.

00:12:18.62
Clifton Campbell
i

00:12:18.95
Frank Dietz
Well, he's he's he's one of those guys who, when he walks in the room, you you are like, you're taken with him.

00:12:27.48
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, you fixate. Yeah, you fixate immediately. Yeah.

00:12:29.98
Frank Dietz
And the character it's so, he's smooth and slimy at the same time, which is really hard to pull off as an actor.

00:12:38.53
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, he's city. Yeah, he's city gross all over, you know?

00:12:43.35
Frank Dietz
Yeah, yeah.

00:12:43.50
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Because cause because James is playing that every man kind of country guy, right?

00:12:44.82
Frank Dietz
And

00:12:49.15
Clifton Campbell
That that I've got common sense by, no may and I may not have all the book learning, but I've got common sense.

00:12:49.17
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:12:49.49
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:12:53.83
Clifton Campbell
I'm logical. And in comes, here comes the city lawyer with the polish and the guy who comes after, I mean, he comes after Lee Remick on the stand big time, man.

00:13:02.36
Frank Dietz
Oh, man.

00:13:02.60
Clifton Campbell
He really, whew.

00:13:02.88
Frank Dietz
Yeah. and And he's got this like Italian suit. He looks as opposed to Jimmy Stewart, who's got like a tweed jacket, you know, like looking like a like a professor from upstate New York or something.

00:13:06.74
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:13:14.96
Frank Dietz
Right. um and but But Scott comes in and and you're just like, wow. And that's the moment where. i was i was starting to kind of drift off i was kind of getting a little like okay this is taking a while you know and then the minute he comes on suddenly it's like it's like you know a shot of shot of vinegar in that in that thing man it just pops

00:13:27.80
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:13:32.15
Clifton Campbell
six It does take a while.

00:13:42.97
Frank Dietz
and that's when there's the real intricacies of the trial ah ah really really kick in and that's that's what really is uh i think that you know

00:13:44.90
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:13:56.31
Frank Dietz
it is what gets gets us through that two and two and a almost three hour uh running time um um because of the strength of these people and you were you know um clifton you were just saying that uh you know he puts he puts lee remick on the stand we've already established that she is very flirtatious she flirts with uh jimmy stewart when she first meet first meets him

00:14:14.37
Clifton Campbell
Boy, does

00:14:20.89
Clifton Campbell
And this is, I'll say this, this is, this is also what, 52, 59?

00:14:25.34
Marty Ketola
nine. Yeah. 59.

00:14:26.49
Frank Dietz
No, no, it's later, 59.

00:14:27.98
Clifton Campbell
It's 59.

00:14:28.33
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:14:28.66
Clifton Campbell
I mean, still women, women don't act like this in public.

00:14:28.57
Marty Ketola
nine yeah

00:14:30.94
Frank Dietz
Right, exactly.

00:14:31.38
Clifton Campbell
They don't, they don't, they don't do this. They don't, especially not married women.

00:14:33.29
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Unless they're femme fatales in a, you know, yeah, right.

00:14:36.22
Clifton Campbell
Unless, unless they're femme fatales or they're easy or they're loose or that type of thing.

00:14:40.09
Frank Dietz
Yeah, right.

00:14:40.22
Clifton Campbell
Right. You know, and, and, you know, free with their favors as it is. Yes.

00:14:44.28
Frank Dietz
but she but she is also that's the dichotomy there is that she even though she's so flirtatious with all these men like you know it's like oh my god am i might like a oh my god wow right she but she really loves her husband and and so that's what makes it so interesting when you're like you're not sure about her you know and then she gets on the stand and and george c scott rips into her like

00:14:48.25
Clifton Campbell
Yes.

00:14:54.50
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:15:01.21
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:15:07.38
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:15:14.14
Frank Dietz
it's It's painful to watch. And boy, like her acting in that scene is ah it's spectacular. um She was a really, really good actress.

00:15:27.54
Frank Dietz
you know And mm-hmm.

00:15:27.58
Clifton Campbell
yeah she's great playing that dame or that maul that that it's like you said it feels very it feels almost 40s to me it feels a little it's got a little bit that noir to it that they're trying to pull along with everything else you know primager yeah

00:15:35.51
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:15:38.94
Frank Dietz
Yeah, yeah, well, that's also, you know, ah part of that, I think, is also the way that Otto Preminger, the director, ah ah what like that was sort of his style anyway.

00:15:49.89
Clifton Campbell
yeah yeah

00:15:50.23
Frank Dietz
um

00:15:51.03
Clifton Campbell
Well, and he was, he was, ah what's her name's first husband in Sunset Boulevard.

00:15:51.32
Frank Dietz
So yeah, it's.

00:15:56.27
Clifton Campbell
He plays, ah he's the butler basically in Sunset Boulevard, which, yeah, which one of the great noir films of all times.

00:15:56.60
Frank Dietz
Yes.

00:15:56.45
Marty Ketola
That's right.

00:16:00.00
Frank Dietz
Yeah, yeah, Max, he's Max. Mm-hmm. Oh my God, it's it's it's so way up there on my list of you know things that aren't like genre per se.

00:16:07.98
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, me too.

00:16:10.81
Frank Dietz
like I can watch that movie anytime.

00:16:14.08
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:16:14.70
Frank Dietz
Just, you know, look, any movie that starts out with with the the hero of your movie, floating dead in the pool and he's doing the narration that's billy wilder's a genius and i love william holden too so um but you know i was just i was really just so blown away because i mean it's seen lee remember re lee remick um like like i mentioned a face in the crowd with andy griffiths which is a kind of a brutal movie also um where she is just she's just this like

00:16:20.42
Clifton Campbell
floating dead in the pool.

00:16:28.04
Clifton Campbell
love it.

00:16:42.32
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:16:43.77
Clifton Campbell
Fantastic. a Heli Kazan, right?

00:16:49.48
Frank Dietz
chipper little cheerleader girl that he takes, you know, advantage of and, and, uh, or, and then you, or, or days of wine and roses where, you know, that like, she might've gotten ah even a nomination for that. I, it's possible. I can't, I didn't look it up, so I'm not positive, but I think so. but really terrific actress. and Then of course, i'm I'm a huge fan of the Omen. so yeah like I like to see her and in pretty much anything, but i but i i I love her in the Omen and I thought it was a brave aye choice.

00:17:22.67
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:17:22.78
Frank Dietz
um I think for everybody in that movie to ah get in a movie that's going to go against the grain of most horror movies that you see.

00:17:33.78
Frank Dietz
so

00:17:34.11
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:17:35.42
Frank Dietz
um But, um you know, i think also the the the setting of Anatomy of a Murder, ah you know, is definitely definitely works in its, um what it's meant what it's really meant to do. its It makes you feel like you are actually in this town where everybody knows each other.

00:17:56.44
Clifton Campbell
yeah yeah

00:17:57.14
Frank Dietz
ah And so, you know, you're, so when when people talk about each other, you you you get the feeling you're you're you're you're getting probably the truth from them.

00:18:12.15
Frank Dietz
unless it's you know somebody who's trying to hide at one point george c scott brings in these guys that he clearly just paid to come in and say you know oh uh yeah he told me when we were in jail that uh you know he he was gonna do this to her and do that to her and it's nasty stuff and and and you you can tell by ben gazara's reaction

00:18:25.91
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:35.32
Frank Dietz
which is so believable what he he just jumps up and he's like you lie like and they have to restrain him and then this like well that's pretty obvious that but that was a cheap it was a cheap trick you know um but that's also the point where you see that george c scott is also not not kind of shifty yeah yeah um

00:18:40.51
Clifton Campbell
and

00:18:57.91
Clifton Campbell
Kind of a shifty lawyer.

00:18:57.91
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:18:58.95
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I mean, he, he takes a lot of, it he takes a lot of, of, um, a front early on from Stewart, who's basically kind of trying to cast him to the jury as this shifty lawyer.

00:19:12.41
Clifton Campbell
And then later as he begins to kind of be, you know, start to do his part, he is a shifty fucking lawyer.

00:19:12.82
Frank Dietz
Right.

00:19:18.41
Clifton Campbell
It's like, Oh, it's actually true.

00:19:18.65
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:19:20.45
Clifton Campbell
which I love.

00:19:20.68
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:21.77
Clifton Campbell
Um,

00:19:21.93
Frank Dietz
It's almost like, it's almost like that, you know, in another kind of movie, he would be the devil. You know?

00:19:28.92
Clifton Campbell
I love the the exhausted, tired ass judge who's just like, can we fucking please just everybody just can can we please get to the end of it and be friends?

00:19:32.91
Frank Dietz
Oh.

00:19:35.13
Frank Dietz
I'd.

00:19:38.78
Clifton Campbell
Can we just be professional? And I love him so much.

00:19:41.76
Frank Dietz
I don't know who the actor is.

00:19:44.09
Clifton Campbell
I love him so much.

00:19:44.18
Frank Dietz
i don't I don't recognize the actor, but ah I love the fact that they thought, Jimmy Stewart and Arthur O'Connell thought they were going to get this other judge.

00:19:45.57
Clifton Campbell
I'm looking him up now. Hang on.

00:19:55.99
Frank Dietz
that was that would normally be there and then they find out it's this guy they're bringing in and to them that's already working against them because they had a relationship with this other judge and so you expect that this this new judge is going to be like either a real hard ass or he's not going to be sympathetic in any way to anything and the truth is he's just a real judge he's just like yeah

00:20:04.04
Clifton Campbell
I absolutely love it. these means know

00:20:17.50
Clifton Campbell
Not at all. He's a real judge and he's, he's great. He's a anatomy of murder is anatomy of a murder is literally his only acting credit.

00:20:23.13
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:20:28.33
Marty Ketola
Wow.

00:20:28.82
Frank Dietz
wow i so

00:20:30.16
Clifton Campbell
he's been in He's been himself in several things, and it looks like he's done a lot of archival footage. So he's been in the business in some way, but his only acting credit is this movie. That's fascinating.

00:20:40.45
Frank Dietz
wow i love that i love that that's that's uh uh you know he probably i you know it's probably like otto breminger was just like met him at a lunch or something it was like you know i think i have a part for you right sometimes that's how it happens

00:20:44.73
Clifton Campbell
Looks like did some he did some TV.

00:20:53.84
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm. I love it. I love that our hero is an irresponsible drinker who works sporadically and can't pay his secretary, her wages. And basically his entire fridge is filled with fish.

00:21:04.24
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Oh.

00:21:07.16
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:21:07.26
Clifton Campbell
Like he's just this, he's an early 1959 eccentric before they really kind of started diving into those eccentrical roles. I just, I really, really thought that was really kind of cool and funny.

00:21:19.65
Clifton Campbell
And of course his meant his mentor and his soon to be partner is a drunk, you know, and they did.

00:21:23.93
Marty Ketola
any casual jams with Duke Ellington as you do you know

00:21:24.28
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:21:26.57
Clifton Campbell
Yep.

00:21:27.10
Frank Dietz
Oh, yes, Duke Ellington.

00:21:27.31
Clifton Campbell
Yep. As you do, you know, the score.

00:21:27.99
Frank Dietz
Oh, the score is great, too.

00:21:29.45
Clifton Campbell
Yes.

00:21:29.43
Frank Dietz
Oh.

00:21:29.81
Clifton Campbell
The score is fantastic. Yes.

00:21:31.22
Frank Dietz
Wow.

00:21:32.12
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Get that cool cat jazz opening sequence, man.

00:21:32.57
Frank Dietz
And i Yeah, yeah, I mean, and and and Duke is in the movie just like a scene or two.

00:21:34.68
Clifton Campbell
You can't beat that shit.

00:21:41.30
Frank Dietz
Right.

00:21:41.59
Clifton Campbell
Yep. Yep. Perfect.

00:21:42.55
Frank Dietz
But um ah but also Eve Arden, Eve Arden, who he plays Jimmy jimmy Stewart's ah unpaid secretary.

00:21:45.75
Marty Ketola
oh yeah

00:21:51.61
Frank Dietz
um And she's she's she's.

00:21:51.65
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. She's the principal from Greece, kids, if you're not sure who that is.

00:21:55.74
Frank Dietz
Yeah, right, exactly.

00:21:55.73
Marty Ketola
Oh,

00:21:57.66
Frank Dietz
Well, I mean, i i remember her as a ah comedian um because she was Armis Brooks with ah Richard Crenna, who's in the next movie that we're going to talk about, right?

00:22:02.33
Clifton Campbell
Great. But, yeah.

00:22:08.89
Marty Ketola
yeah.

00:22:12.18
Marty Ketola
Oh, yeah ah yeah, at the circus.

00:22:14.03
Frank Dietz
But she was also in um a Marx Brothers movie. She was in At the Circus.

00:22:17.71
Marty Ketola
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:22:18.87
Frank Dietz
And then she was on the mother's in law, uh, a series that ran for many years on, on CBS, I think, uh, with Kay Ballard where, and Eve Arden was hilariously funny.

00:22:19.07
Clifton Campbell
I'm finished.

00:22:32.31
Frank Dietz
Like she, she could, she could match Lucille ball when she was doing comedy. Um, so it's kind of funny that she's, she's not quite funny in this movie, but,

00:22:44.82
Frank Dietz
You get the sense that she has a sense of humor, though, because the fact that I mean, she said a couple of lines that suggest a certain sarcasm.

00:22:48.14
Marty Ketola
mm-hmm

00:22:48.82
Clifton Campbell
Oh, sure.

00:22:54.09
Frank Dietz
And that that's what Eve Arden was really good at was sarcasm. Yeah.

00:22:58.51
Clifton Campbell
she's she's she's got it She's got it in spades in Greece where she's just, she's you know, she's going after those kids and just, oh she's got all those great lines.

00:23:02.35
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:23:06.04
Frank Dietz
ah

00:23:06.55
Clifton Campbell
Fantastic. um one of my favorite lines in this movie is, I think it's when Ben Gazzara is on the it's on the stand and he says, when I was overseas, I learned a French word for it, maybe a little suggestive.

00:23:20.34
Clifton Campbell
and and the and the And the judge goes, well, most French words are.

00:23:20.22
Marty Ketola
Oh yeah.

00:23:24.18
Clifton Campbell
i started i started laughing.

00:23:25.04
Marty Ketola
That was almost close.

00:23:26.62
Clifton Campbell
I'm like, I fucking love this judge so fucking much. It's not even funny. Like I would, I would feel very comfortable getting a judgment from that guy. Cause I feel like it would be very fair and very even handed.

00:23:37.62
Clifton Campbell
Right. Like I just, I feel like you're in good hands with a judge of that nature. He's going to, he's going to be very fair.

00:23:41.70
Marty Ketola
He shows you that with the case he deals with before the case starts.

00:23:42.46
Clifton Campbell
and Exactly. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:47.74
Frank Dietz
You know, and you know you mentioned earlier that about the use of the word panties, quite often, and the word rape quite often and for 1959 that was actually pretty pretty daring

00:23:55.59
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's the first.

00:24:00.52
Clifton Campbell
Oh, this was, yeah, this was a big deal back then.

00:24:01.62
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:24:04.15
Clifton Campbell
ah They were mad about panties.

00:24:04.31
Frank Dietz
okay

00:24:05.91
Clifton Campbell
They were mad about the word panties.

00:24:06.73
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:24:07.39
Clifton Campbell
They were mad about contraceptive penetration, rape, slut, sperm, the word bitch. This movie's pushing the edge. This movie's early on trying to base.

00:24:18.23
Clifton Campbell
I really feel like this movie early on is working towards the fact that just because a woman, ah just because a woman goes out and puts on makeup and, and, and, and doesn't wear hose, Oh my God, she wasn't wearing hoes.

00:24:29.55
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:24:31.62
Clifton Campbell
Doesn't make her a slut and doesn't mean that, that, that, uh, that the, the sex was consensual. Right. And you know, it's like, right.

00:24:36.60
Frank Dietz
well where do you think the word hose comes from yeah

00:24:40.31
Clifton Campbell
well the The point being like, i just feel like this is moving towards that of like trying this, this early on thing.

00:24:45.18
Frank Dietz
well

00:24:50.01
Clifton Campbell
Cause I remember in the seventies when I was a kid, this whole trend of, women on the stand and pushing back and saying no I was raped no it was sexual assault and that type of thing and I feel like this is an early early pre predecessor to that which is great fantastic I agree agree

00:25:03.54
Frank Dietz
yeah I think it i think it it probably broke broke a bit of ice there. you know And coming from such an established and director as Preminger, that also...

00:25:13.66
Clifton Campbell
director yeah well and the end the whole cast yeah

00:25:17.46
Frank Dietz
you know And then the very next year, you know Hitchcock does breaks a lot of of of windows with Psycho.

00:25:21.90
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:25:23.94
Frank Dietz
um

00:25:24.22
Clifton Campbell
Yep. Yep. Yep.

00:25:25.24
Frank Dietz
So you know that was definitely a turning point um in cinema, at least for U.S.

00:25:28.97
Clifton Campbell
That's a good point.

00:25:31.21
Frank Dietz
cinema.

00:25:33.78
Clifton Campbell
I feel like Lee Remick is super dangerous in this movie. She's like, she's like looking at a razor blade. Like you don't want to play with that. You should probably put that, you should probably put that away.

00:25:41.72
Frank Dietz
yep oh but she's so beautiful oh my god that face oh my god

00:25:46.23
Clifton Campbell
Yes, absolutely. I mean, she's a, yeah, it's a meow, but also like that's, that may cut you. You may, that may not be a good thing.

00:25:55.18
Frank Dietz
yep yeah yeah ah danger will robinson uh

00:25:59.90
Clifton Campbell
the Marty, we we're talking a lot here. What do you got?

00:26:02.62
Frank Dietz
okay

00:26:03.99
Marty Ketola
One of the things I really like about this movie is the background reactions and the use of framing, especially in the courtroom scenes. There's always somebody's head in the background, and it's almost as more interesting to watch what they're doing to the reactions in the foreground.

00:26:19.74
Marty Ketola
The best being Jimmy Stewart trying to move out of the way of George P.

00:26:20.58
Clifton Campbell
That's good point.

00:26:23.19
Frank Dietz
oh that was great yeah yeah george c scott stands in between him and the person on the stand so and so they have that great shot where every time george c scott moves

00:26:23.46
Marty Ketola
Scott.

00:26:23.80
Clifton Campbell
Oh, I love that.

00:26:24.00
Marty Ketola
He keeps blocking. Yeah.

00:26:30.49
Clifton Campbell
The witness. Yeah.

00:26:35.06
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:26:37.53
Frank Dietz
Jimmy Stewart has to move another way to be able to see it and and then complains about it. And and it is justified. ah you know

00:26:45.16
Clifton Campbell
Yep. Yep.

00:26:46.33
Frank Dietz
um

00:26:46.83
Clifton Campbell
I love that.

00:26:48.22
Frank Dietz
Oh, yeah.

00:26:48.57
Clifton Campbell
joe

00:26:48.66
Frank Dietz
that was That was a great moment. Yeah.

00:26:50.81
Clifton Campbell
Did y'all notice Floyd the barber in this movie is Floyd the gynecologist? i was kind of That was kind of crazy.

00:26:55.38
Marty Ketola
yeah

00:26:56.83
Frank Dietz
I actually didn't notice it was him. oh wow.

00:26:59.90
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, he's ah he's the he's the doctor who examines her and ah and testifies.

00:27:00.47
Frank Dietz
ah

00:27:05.50
Frank Dietz
did he Did he have the must the little mustache in the one?

00:27:08.15
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, yeah, he sure did.

00:27:09.06
Frank Dietz
Oh, wow.

00:27:09.43
Clifton Campbell
He looks like Floyd.

00:27:09.94
Frank Dietz
How did I miss that?

00:27:10.23
Clifton Campbell
He looks like he's right out of maybe every RFD.

00:27:11.64
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:27:14.94
Frank Dietz
I mean, i mean not it's possible that that that's you know also kind of an uncomfortable scene. So um you know i I maybe was, I didn't have my character actor radar on at that moment.

00:27:28.64
Marty Ketola
It's

00:27:29.30
Frank Dietz
you know um yeah I will say something though um that isn't, It isn't really positive about the film. And I felt like the end of the film was very anticlimactic.

00:27:46.92
Frank Dietz
I felt like it didn't have it didn't have the punch that I expected.

00:27:47.21
Marty Ketola
very abrupt, all right.

00:27:47.58
Clifton Campbell
one I agree.

00:27:54.26
Frank Dietz
you know and And look, my I still don't want you know the lead character to to end the movie passed out on the floor like mr Smith. which that's always bothered me too.

00:28:02.88
Clifton Campbell
I

00:28:04.25
Frank Dietz
But but ah but it just felt like very so very soft compared to the intensity and and and so forth ah ah that happens during that the whole hour before it, ah hour and a half before it, that's the essentially the trial you know with flashbacks and so forth.

00:28:18.95
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. hu

00:28:26.12
Frank Dietz
but um but And then the the ending just seemed kind of tacked on like,

00:28:28.09
Clifton Campbell
i don't like it either.

00:28:31.90
Frank Dietz
you know, it's, um jim James Stewart and Arthur O'Connell are in the car and Arthur O'Connell is kind of like, well, it's been great not drinking.

00:28:34.04
Clifton Campbell
the the the

00:28:41.04
Frank Dietz
i guess maybe I'll keep not drinking. And it's just like, you're like, hey. a and i just did, it didn't, it didn't match. To me, it just didn't match the the rest of the movie.

00:28:51.13
Marty Ketola
and whom

00:28:55.93
Frank Dietz
It really felt like studio intervention.

00:28:56.09
Clifton Campbell
No, i I didn't like fake out.

00:28:59.70
Frank Dietz
Huh?

00:29:00.28
Clifton Campbell
I didn't like the fake out. You know, the whole, oh, well, we were going to sign, you know, you were going to come up here and we were going to sign the check, but looks like we moved on without you, buddy. Sorry. I just, he's fucking smarter than that.

00:29:09.30
Marty Ketola
I mean, that's realistic, but it's abrupt, right?

00:29:09.46
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:29:12.98
Clifton Campbell
He's a lawyer that's been two steps ahead everybody, the entire film mainly, basically.

00:29:16.95
Marty Ketola
We should have known this guy was going to take off immediately.

00:29:17.76
Clifton Campbell
And then at the end, he gets, yes, that's what I'm saying.

00:29:19.51
Marty Ketola
yeah But it's anticlimactic, right?

00:29:21.28
Clifton Campbell
He gets,

00:29:22.34
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:29:22.62
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, it I had i trouble with the ending too. Yeah.

00:29:25.59
Frank Dietz
Yeah. But other than that, uh an excellent film but excellent film and i'm glad i saw it

00:29:31.30
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:29:32.06
Marty Ketola
Oh, yeah.

00:29:32.34
Clifton Campbell
Too long. Yeah, too long. Yeah, same, same.

00:29:34.93
Marty Ketola
Oh,

00:29:35.72
Clifton Campbell
i had I was like you. I thought I had seen this.

00:29:38.46
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:29:38.63
Marty Ketola
OK.

00:29:38.90
Clifton Campbell
but I thought for sure. I'm like, I've seen this. And then it starts and you go, I haven't seen this.

00:29:44.41
Frank Dietz
Yeah, well, you know, the thing too is that it has, like, if you look at the poster, it's it's um built a Bass, Saul Bass, right?

00:29:44.54
Clifton Campbell
Wait a minute.

00:29:50.49
Marty Ketola
hu Yeah, the salt baths, yeah.

00:29:54.71
Frank Dietz
Which automatically says to me, Hitchcock, because Saul Bass did, like, all of Hitchcock's opening credits, right?

00:29:57.97
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:29:58.17
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah yep yep

00:30:03.29
Frank Dietz
So that i just I just thought it was another Hitchcock, Jimmy Stewart movie. And when I saw Otto Fremminger, was like, oh, OK. All right. So let's see let's see what old Otto does with with with Jimmy.

00:30:11.99
Clifton Campbell
enough

00:30:17.75
Frank Dietz
and ah And, you know, of course, did an amazing job. Great film.

00:30:21.42
Clifton Campbell
Did a killer job. Did a killer job.

00:30:22.72
Frank Dietz
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:30:24.20
Clifton Campbell
Nominated for seven Oscars.

00:30:27.31
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:30:27.80
Clifton Campbell
best Best picture, best actor in a lead and supporting role. Actually, wow. Scott and O'Connell went went head to head for the best supporting actor role in this film.

00:30:39.77
Frank Dietz
wow wow

00:30:40.89
Clifton Campbell
with That's amazing. You don't rarely ever see that. Best screenwriting, best screenplay from another material, best cinematography in black and white, and best film editing. so Definitely, but it didn't win anything, surprisingly enough.

00:30:54.50
Frank Dietz
no i mean all of those people probably won other years arthur o'connell won for something i thought uh a supporting role but could be wrong about that um but we all know you know stewart stewart certainly won uh scott scott's won um so you know they've got their uh

00:31:01.33
Clifton Campbell
Yes.

00:31:18.30
Clifton Campbell
yes

00:31:24.82
Clifton Campbell
he He won for, well, he was nominated for Picnic and O'Connell was nominated for Picnic and Anatomy of the Murder, but he never won, unfortunately.

00:31:30.91
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:31:33.16
Marty Ketola
Hmm.

00:31:33.53
Frank Dietz
Oh, OK.

00:31:33.66
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:31:34.74
Frank Dietz
um I thought he was one of the, you know, the the Poseidon adventure was just like like our all star cast of previous Oscar winners, which which at that point they were all doing television. But but ah but it is an impressive lineup.

00:31:51.13
Clifton Campbell
I love that movie. I love the lineup.

00:31:52.84
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:31:53.43
Clifton Campbell
You know, I don't care.

00:31:53.78
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:31:54.35
Clifton Campbell
don't You know, you get a good actor. I don't care what stage of their career they're in. a good actor is 10 times better than ah a mediocre actor, even, even, ah even the late in their career.

00:31:58.45
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:32:01.04
Frank Dietz
i'm still I'm still towering Inferno myself above above Poseidon, but um i still it's hard not to love Poseidon.

00:32:04.25
Clifton Campbell
a

00:32:09.90
Frank Dietz
It's it it so on the edge of camp.

00:32:13.26
Clifton Campbell
It's yeah, it's right there.

00:32:14.37
Frank Dietz
Well, Inferno really isn't.

00:32:14.39
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:32:16.85
Frank Dietz
Inferno takes itself a lot more like seriously.

00:32:19.06
Clifton Campbell
Seriously.

00:32:20.00
Frank Dietz
Have fun.

00:32:20.89
Clifton Campbell
I just got the the airport series on Blu-ray, which was airport 76, airport Concord.

00:32:21.50
Frank Dietz
Oh.

00:32:24.09
Frank Dietz
but have fun

00:32:27.61
Clifton Campbell
and So I've been going through those and those are, though you want to talk about camp, those are ridiculous.

00:32:32.86
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah well you know when you're when you're supporting cast it includes larry storch as a as an obnoxious tv caster you know you know

00:32:32.98
Clifton Campbell
Like those are, those are so silly and, but, but a lot of fun.

00:32:46.36
Frank Dietz
but

00:32:47.80
Clifton Campbell
Hell yes.

00:32:50.29
Frank Dietz
oh

00:32:51.52
Clifton Campbell
Mario, you anything else on this one?

00:32:53.02
Marty Ketola
So I had seen it, but only one time before a few years ago, and I figured I should bring it onto the show because I wasn't sure if if if you had seen it, Cliff, but I'm glad that ah you all got to experience it for the first time.

00:33:01.10
Clifton Campbell
That was a good pick. No, I hadn't.

00:33:05.61
Marty Ketola
That's pretty cool. And you're right about the pacing. It is. It takes an hour to get into the courtroom, almost almost to the minute.

00:33:12.57
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:33:13.58
Marty Ketola
But then once you get to that courtroom for that last almost two hours, it's just like, oh, okay, now we're off to the races. Like you were saying, that was all just the setup. And that it does take its dips, but it's also still pretty interesting that first hour where you know he's just going around with his fancy cigarettes and and and and investigating like he's a proto-Columbo or something.

00:33:33.81
Marty Ketola
But what I also enjoy is the way the movie looks.

00:33:34.23
Frank Dietz
ah

00:33:37.73
Marty Ketola
It's so crisp. We watched the 4K remastering of it. And when I would squint, it almost felt like it was in color. It's so damn sharp.

00:33:48.33
Marty Ketola
You know, like I can almost imagine what this movie would look like in color.

00:33:48.82
Frank Dietz
hey

00:33:51.41
Marty Ketola
I guess it's just because of the way it was lit. So just like it doesn't feel like. something from the 50s, it feels almost more like something, the way they would light something in like the 60s or the 70s.

00:34:02.93
Marty Ketola
Does that make sense?

00:34:03.88
Frank Dietz
Definitely.

00:34:03.81
Marty Ketola
Like it was more of a future kind of.

00:34:04.71
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:34:06.49
Clifton Campbell
okay

00:34:07.67
Marty Ketola
But yeah, I really, really, really like this one on a scale of one to five. I'm going to go four and a half. Yeah. Because the ending is the weird abruptness.

00:34:15.85
Clifton Campbell
Yep.

00:34:15.91
Marty Ketola
And it does take a little bit to get going.

00:34:16.15
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:34:16.79
Clifton Campbell
Yep. For me, it's it's just a touch too long. I feel like he can shorten up the beginning, get us into the courtroom where the real where the real heat is and get us moving a little bit more.

00:34:30.14
Clifton Campbell
Preminger's a master. What the fuck do I know? Like, you know, this guy's made way more great movies than I'll ever make. But for me, I'd love to see it at 220, 225, somewhere in there, just trimming a few things here and there to get that pacing a little bit tighter. But everything else is amazing. Gazera is...

00:34:49.37
Clifton Campbell
both frightening and sort of this put upon victim. He, you know, he seems like he's a victim, but at the same time, you think he may have done it. Lee Remick is a smoke show who is total danger at every stretch of the imagination.

00:34:58.01
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:35:00.12
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:35:02.80
Clifton Campbell
Stewart's dancing around this courtroom and them because he knows that he doesn't want to ask too many questions, but he's got to write ask the right questions to be an effective attorney. It's fucking great.

00:35:13.27
Clifton Campbell
Four stars all the way. Yep.

00:35:15.25
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah. i I'm probably, if there was a a four and a quarter,

00:35:23.03
Marty Ketola
Right.

00:35:23.54
Clifton Campbell
Right, that yeah, right.

00:35:23.80
Frank Dietz
ah yeah like, I'm sort of like right between there.

00:35:24.09
Marty Ketola
right

00:35:25.41
Clifton Campbell
A fat four.

00:35:28.80
Frank Dietz
um but ah ah But either way, it's ah It's a terrific film, a really terrific film.

00:35:35.33
Clifton Campbell
It's absolutely.

00:35:36.33
Frank Dietz
and and it That's the's actually the kind of movies that like ah when I was ah taking film classes, like even in even in high school, Like we'd watch longer epics like this or like the sand pebbles or, you know, and and to be able to really like understand it and do deep dives into it and so forth.

00:35:46.17
Clifton Campbell
This is definitely one of those things, yeah.

00:36:02.10
Frank Dietz
Or, you know, how does it compare to the source material and so forth? So um so it's I think it's ah its it would be a great it's a good film for for like film students to to to look at for all the reasons that we've talked about.

00:36:14.14
Clifton Campbell
Yep. I would agree. yeah I like, I like how it covers the courtroom drama. You know, that type I would say if you're go to, if you're going look into courtroom dramas and making it one, watch this, maybe 12 Anger Men and then My Cousin Vinny. That'll give you, that'll that'll spread the whole gamut for you.

00:36:29.37
Frank Dietz
ah I love that. Marissa is so freaking funny in that movie.

00:36:35.58
Clifton Campbell
I do.

00:36:36.21
Frank Dietz
Oh my God.

00:36:36.50
Clifton Campbell
we we We've already covered that one.

00:36:37.33
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:36:38.10
Clifton Campbell
I love that movie. I think it's a class. I think it's a hardcore classic. She earned that Oscar all day long.

00:36:43.32
Frank Dietz
ah yeah Oh man.

00:36:44.29
Clifton Campbell
She's so good in that movie.

00:36:44.58
Frank Dietz
Well, she was in, she was in the last movie I wrote that got made and so got to, yeah, I got to, you know, watch her work and, and,

00:36:49.65
Clifton Campbell
Wow. Really?

00:36:54.14
Clifton Campbell
Wow. That must've been fantastic.

00:36:56.44
Frank Dietz
ah reading my dialogue which was really exciting um uh and and she's just like like such a pro she makes it look effortless um and she she had a she had a scene with them um um

00:37:17.78
Frank Dietz
My brain isn't working right now. But the lead actor who she'd worked with before, so she was already comfortable with him. um And ah so so it was just like, I'm just sitting there going like, I can't even believe I'm watching this.

00:37:32.20
Frank Dietz
you know but It's like, ah really, really cool.

00:37:32.82
Marty Ketola
but

00:37:36.43
Frank Dietz
Really cool lady.

00:37:38.94
Clifton Campbell
That's amazing. I'm a big fan of hers. I think she's i like i think she's earned every every Oscar and every accolade she's ever gotten.

00:37:42.14
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:37:46.35
Clifton Campbell
She's daring and she's excellent.

00:37:46.62
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:37:49.30
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:37:49.84
Clifton Campbell
Anyways, so bringing us to the next film, which is... Charlie Brawny. Finally, guess Charlie Bronson on this frigging show.

00:37:55.58
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah

00:37:57.84
Clifton Campbell
I'm so excited. Break art pass. Here we go. Break art pass. Let me read the little description I've got for it. Break art pass, 1979 at five PG one hour, 35 minutes. Here's your log line.

00:38:10.94
Clifton Campbell
John Deacon is being transported as a prisoner on a train with supplies and medicine to Fort Humboldt, Nevada. So he can help aid the remote garrison of Fort Humboldt. Let me get you a storyline here.

00:38:21.62
Marty Ketola
Wasn't John Deacon the basis for Queen?

00:38:22.40
Clifton Campbell
Uh, He was, um after a sudden outbreak of diphtheria, the authorities dispatched an espresso tain carrying reinforcement soldiers and medical supplies through the frozen west across the Rocky Mountains to aid the remote garrison of Fort Humboldt.

00:38:25.29
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:38:37.84
Clifton Campbell
Along with the troops, there are also aboard Governor Richard Fairchild, the outpost commander's daughter, Marika, the squad's Captain Major Clement, the U.S. Marshal Pierce, and his mysterious prisoner, John Deegan. Indeed, this was supposed to be a routine operation, aren't they always? However, before long in this confined but well-guarded place, missing officers and unexplained deaths start to shroud the mission with mystery and suspicion as an unstoppable unknown killer is picking them off one by one. Who is the murderer in their midst?

00:39:06.26
Clifton Campbell
Yes. Yes. I was expecting one thing. And what I got was a fucking Sherlock Holmes movie. I got murder on the Oregon express in the middle of the Colorado Rockies.

00:39:13.30
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:39:13.70
Marty Ketola
in the oriented express but proto terror train right yeah

00:39:17.53
Clifton Campbell
And I was, I was all about it, dude.

00:39:17.78
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:39:20.54
Clifton Campbell
As soon as I realized what I was watching, I was like, oh shit. Yes. Let's do this. Let's go.

00:39:24.95
Frank Dietz
So you had not seen it before?

00:39:26.46
Marty Ketola
no hadn't seen this yeah

00:39:26.71
Clifton Campbell
no, no

00:39:27.77
Frank Dietz
Oh, really?

00:39:29.37
Clifton Campbell
no

00:39:29.46
Frank Dietz
oh awesome but but ah that's awesome

00:39:32.98
Clifton Campbell
Love it. It's still the first thing I want to say is this still feels, I know it's 78, but it feels like 75. It's got a little bit of that kind of fried out.

00:39:44.60
Marty Ketola
Well, isn't it 75?

00:39:46.55
Clifton Campbell
I thought it was 78.

00:39:46.68
Frank Dietz
i thought it was 75. yeah

00:39:47.67
Clifton Campbell
Is it 78? Okay. I thought it was 75, 78.

00:39:50.17
Marty Ketola
Well, then that would explain why it feels like 75 to you.

00:39:50.67
Clifton Campbell
Is it? Oh, it's 75. My bad. 75. Okay. So it feels, it feels still kind of fried out. Like it feels very, um it feels very last detail.

00:40:02.42
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:40:02.62
Marty Ketola
Like the last detail? Yeah, I guess.

00:40:04.01
Frank Dietz
Hmm.

00:40:05.01
Clifton Campbell
it's like It's got that that kind of just exhausted from the 60s feel to it. too mag I don't know how else to put it.

00:40:12.28
Frank Dietz
yeah but

00:40:13.24
Clifton Campbell
ah

00:40:13.05
Marty Ketola
yeah

00:40:14.01
Clifton Campbell
But it looks great. I love it. ah it's It's got that weird, realistic, but trippy sort of 70s Western vibe to it.

00:40:23.22
Marty Ketola
it almost has a made for TV feel, but it's more violent.

00:40:26.30
Clifton Campbell
Close.

00:40:26.42
Marty Ketola
And then I looked up the director and he did a lot of television work.

00:40:27.36
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:40:30.10
Marty Ketola
I'm like, well, that makes a lot of sense then. Yeah.

00:40:32.89
Clifton Campbell
Yep. First thing I noticed was that the second unit and the stunt coordinator were the same person. And that's pretty common. um If your stunt coordinator a really good camera person, like Knight's Tale, the stunt coordinator there, he shot all the second unit stuff because he was very used to doing to doing that.

00:40:40.97
Marty Ketola
Hmm.

00:40:50.67
Clifton Campbell
So he he was able to hand off all the jousting and all that stuff to to him and let him shoot it.

00:40:55.68
Frank Dietz
well well yeah but it it it it it makes sense if you are making a movie that's going to require a good deal of stunt work um so um so yeah so to to have the stunt person and if he's if he's qualified to be a a first ad um uh yeah that's that's that's killing two birds with one stone and and and smart because your stunt guy's going to be right there

00:41:06.01
Clifton Campbell
Right, right, way right, right.

00:41:06.01
Marty Ketola
I don't hama

00:41:07.90
Clifton Campbell
That's exactly what I mean.

00:41:15.19
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:41:22.49
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Right there.

00:41:25.24
Frank Dietz
um

00:41:26.01
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:41:26.39
Frank Dietz
Then he's not going to be off drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes around the back of the honey wagon.

00:41:26.53
Clifton Campbell
And he's going to be making sure that it matches. Yep.

00:41:35.19
Clifton Campbell
oh This movie's got Ben Johnson in it, man.

00:41:38.62
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:41:38.55
Marty Ketola
Yeah. Hmm.

00:41:39.50
Clifton Campbell
um'm I'm from Oklahoma, dude. Fucking Ben Johnson's like a national treasure, a state treasure down here. He's fucking great, man. So the minute I saw Ben Johnson, i was like, again, i was like, oh, oh let's go. Yes, please.

00:41:49.88
Frank Dietz
Yeah, well, you know, and ah I mean, I loved Ben Johnson in in pretty much everything. um But one thing that I really love him in is, and it's one of his first movies, is Mighty Joe Young.

00:42:05.62
Clifton Campbell
Mm, yes. Mm-hmm.

00:42:07.32
Frank Dietz
Yeah, where he's just this, he's basically still him. He's still like the cowboy guy, right? ah And and you know he ends up being ah one of the people who is sympathetic to this 12-foot gorilla and and you know everything that happens in that story. um But he's, um I mean, let's face it, he is he's like it's It's almost sometimes it sometimes it feels like it isn't a Western in the 70s unless he's in it.

00:42:36.34
Clifton Campbell
without what's the, what's the other dude that, um, he always played the old drunk.

00:42:39.06
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:42:43.22
Clifton Campbell
He's in Rio Bravo. He's in,

00:42:47.45
Marty Ketola
Was he in bad day at Blackrock as well?

00:42:47.93
Clifton Campbell
um Bad Day at Black Rock. he's He's in Western after, I can't remember his name, but he is in, and he's got that voice that, that that's and if you don't, if he's not in a Western, i don't I don't feel like it's a real Western without him, but he's just like that where he's, well, you know, I told you to do this and so on and so on.

00:42:50.84
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:43:05.82
Frank Dietz
yeah Yeah, that makes ah Mel Brooks makes fun of him in in Blazing Saddles.

00:43:07.69
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. That's it. Yes, yes. But he's an icon.

00:43:12.15
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:43:12.94
Clifton Campbell
I mean, he just, just like Ben, he's just an icon of the Westerns.

00:43:13.68
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:43:15.90
Clifton Campbell
is I love him.

00:43:16.73
Frank Dietz
Yeah. um but That's, you know, one of the things.

00:43:21.40
Marty Ketola
Walter Brennan.

00:43:21.92
Frank Dietz
All right.

00:43:22.94
Clifton Campbell
Walter Brennan, thank you.

00:43:24.34
Marty Ketola
Sorry. Yeah.

00:43:26.30
Frank Dietz
Yeah, who was on The Real McCoys, also with Richard Crenna.

00:43:29.95
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:43:32.32
Frank Dietz
ah ah But but you know that the that is one of the greatest character actor casts of any movie.

00:43:41.46
Clifton Campbell
It's fantastic. Oh my God.

00:43:42.17
Marty Ketola
yeah

00:43:43.42
Frank Dietz
I mean, every single one of them.

00:43:43.90
Clifton Campbell
you just You just keep pointing at him. Yes.

00:43:46.10
Frank Dietz
Yeah. you know ah yeah you know Between,

00:43:47.00
Marty Ketola
oh

00:43:49.55
Clifton Campbell
The Lebowski is in this for fuck's sake.

00:43:53.14
Frank Dietz
um a waito

00:43:55.26
Clifton Campbell
the the guy who plays The guy who plays actually plays Lebowski in the big Lebowski.

00:43:55.32
Marty Ketola
Oh, Hiddleston. Yeah.

00:43:58.49
Frank Dietz
Oh, Lebowski.

00:43:59.58
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, he's in this one.

00:43:59.58
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:44:00.77
Frank Dietz
There's Ed Lauder.

00:44:01.14
Clifton Campbell
I'm like, oh, shit, Lebowski.

00:44:03.73
Frank Dietz
ed i mean, Ed Lauder, you know Charles Durning, Robert Tessier, who, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:05.13
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:44:09.98
Clifton Campbell
which jill Jill Ireland, Richard Corrinna, Charles Durning, Bill McKinney's in this, David Huddleston.

00:44:16.18
Marty Ketola
Bill McKinney.

00:44:17.02
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:44:16.90
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:44:18.46
Clifton Campbell
yeah it's a Robert Tessier is the bad guy Calhoun.

00:44:22.81
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:44:23.31
Clifton Campbell
Sally Kirkland is in this. It's, it's, it's the, the cast is awesome.

00:44:25.24
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:44:28.76
Frank Dietz
And I love it. i much I was a huge fan of Richard Crenna. i really He was my one of my very favorite actors because he could he could just do anything.

00:44:34.91
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:44:38.43
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:44:41.11
Frank Dietz
like he could he he He plays a great good guy. He plays a good villain. ah like like And in this movie, Crenna's character, Governor Fairchild, is is kind of interesting because He does have some shade of gray. I mean, in the big picture, yeah, he's a bad guy.

00:45:00.89
Frank Dietz
But look how he goes to how to to save Jill Ireland like when he doesn't have to.

00:45:05.00
Clifton Campbell
Oh,

00:45:06.48
Frank Dietz
He could he could have split you know and and at that moment and maybe not be not end up with the fate he ends up in, um which of course, it had that had to happen because he's a bad guy.

00:45:09.06
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:45:18.58
Frank Dietz
But um sorry, spoilers. um but but i always thought i always just thought that was interesting is that like he's said he's just like let the girl go to robert tessier and it ends up being you know a gun fight that he that he wins um and uh uh i i i love that i love that if there's just even the you know a twinge of

00:45:21.94
Clifton Campbell
ah we spoiled the show. Don't let hear that.

00:45:41.90
Frank Dietz
there's some good part of this villain because having played villains um on stage and and so forth, i you know ah yeah one of the things they teach you is that you know villains don't look at themselves as villains most of the time.

00:45:57.08
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:45:57.83
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:45:58.04
Frank Dietz
They don't see it, right?

00:45:58.10
Clifton Campbell
Yep. They always have excuses or reasons for what they do.

00:46:00.82
Frank Dietz
Yeah, it's there's always a justification for for what it is that they're doing.

00:46:01.32
Clifton Campbell
Yep. Yep.

00:46:05.42
Frank Dietz
but But I just thought it was really interesting that that he, that Governor Fairchild, you know, instead of just taking the money and run basically or whenever, like he he he stops and he saves Jill Ireland before, you know, all hell breaks loose outside of the train.

00:46:21.46
Clifton Campbell
yeah

00:46:26.20
Frank Dietz
But talk about a train movie, guys.

00:46:30.24
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:46:30.62
Clifton Campbell
Oh, hell yeah.

00:46:31.77
Frank Dietz
right ah dont i love movies on trains

00:46:32.83
Clifton Campbell
Hell yeah. That's fantastic. This one's great because they they're real smart about it. Like they put everybody on the train real early. they they They kind of come up with this reason to strand the train multiple times. And so, you know, you shoot a lot of the the exteriors for the train and then you move indoors and you shoot the indoor stuff. you know into You know, you build your little car indoors and you shoot all the things you need to do and you're good to go, right? It seems like it's a really smart way to shoot it, right?

00:46:58.97
Clifton Campbell
And a smart way to to build this type of a movie. I was just thinking in my head, like, if I was going to shoot this, this is kind of the way I would want it to go. Lock the train down somewhere, shoot a bunch of outs, exteriors, shoot a little interiors, and then go to this and then go to, you know, get off the location, go to a soundstage and finish it up, right?

00:47:15.10
Frank Dietz
and that's Yeah.

00:47:15.59
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:47:16.06
Frank Dietz
that's the yeah that And that is great because you you don't you're you're not always stuck on the train.

00:47:23.93
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:47:24.22
Frank Dietz
they There are those situations where the the the you know the track has been blown up or, or or yeah.

00:47:29.24
Clifton Campbell
Blown up. They throw the dude off the bridge, you know, and he's got to go down and check on him.

00:47:31.58
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:47:32.84
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:47:33.14
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:47:33.46
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:47:34.07
Frank Dietz
um So there's, you know, there's reasons to stop the train.

00:47:34.24
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:47:36.87
Frank Dietz
And so it doesn't feel stage bound because they are able to get out.

00:47:40.73
Clifton Campbell
Right. That's exactly exactly. We're constantly getting out.

00:47:43.47
Frank Dietz
um

00:47:44.39
Clifton Campbell
The brilliance of using the backup telegraph machine, right? Where they're like, pull train over. I got to make a phone call. Right. Which is was really smart.

00:47:51.54
Marty Ketola
It does.

00:47:52.31
Clifton Campbell
um I will say i was in the last part of this movie, I was laughing my ass off because this train stops on a fucking dime.

00:48:01.50
Marty Ketola
it does

00:48:01.88
Clifton Campbell
Like, I mean, I mean, the tracks blow up a hundred yards in front of this thing.

00:48:01.96
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:48:05.12
Clifton Campbell
And the dude's like, oh, my reaction time is amazing.

00:48:05.45
Frank Dietz
mm-hmm

00:48:09.78
Clifton Campbell
And we stop, you know, and then of course now we're teaching native Americans how to be railroad engineers all of a sudden, which was fucking hilarious.

00:48:16.86
Frank Dietz
ah

00:48:17.11
Clifton Campbell
So part of the movie's,

00:48:17.18
Marty Ketola
They were on it too, like NASCAR, right?

00:48:19.32
Clifton Campbell
and car of Yeah.

00:48:19.22
Marty Ketola
They're just switching off that track.

00:48:20.36
Clifton Campbell
Like it's part of it's so silly, but also it makes sense.

00:48:20.86
Marty Ketola
Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:24.40
Clifton Campbell
Like, especially back in the day, like that's what you do. Like we're not going backwards. Just take the, take the track from the back, fix the track in the front, keep the train moving. It makes complete sense. Right. Um,

00:48:34.33
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:48:34.65
Clifton Campbell
it just, yeah, hell of a film. At the beginning of the movie, I kept watching Charles Bronson get his ass kicked and I'm going, oh no, is this going to be one of those Charlie Bronson peaceful movies? I don't want to watch Charlie Bronson peaceful movie.

00:48:46.14
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:48:46.62
Clifton Campbell
I want to watch Charlie Bronson kicking ass movie. And then suddenly you get about halfway through the second act and you're like, oh yeah, here it comes.

00:48:49.24
Frank Dietz
yeah

00:48:54.47
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah well once you know once they do the reveal that he's not i mean uh that he's really undercover he's a secret service or uh right is i think it's secret service yeah and and once you realize that um and then it's like okay and

00:48:59.42
Clifton Campbell
Right. He's not the killer.

00:49:01.36
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:49:01.66
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

00:49:01.50
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:49:04.17
Marty Ketola
huh

00:49:04.66
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah. Secret service. Yeah.

00:49:12.38
Clifton Campbell
On like Donkey Kong.

00:49:13.82
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah. And ah and that's ah that's a great, and and that revelation comes right at the right point in the film too, so that you can, we can now really see where the narrative is going to go, right?

00:49:28.50
Marty Ketola
and japan

00:49:28.79
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:49:28.77
Frank Dietz
Because he's, ah you know, he's on a train filled with like everyone except Jill Ireland wants to kill him basically.

00:49:36.57
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:49:36.83
Marty Ketola
Thank you.

00:49:37.17
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:49:37.24
Clifton Campbell
Right. Right. Well, and he's, he's doing so much sneaking around early on where you're like, cause at first you're like, is he like an evil Poirot? Like, is he like an evil, you know, cause I, I got that kind of Poirot, um, sort of, you know, uh,

00:49:53.50
Clifton Campbell
genius detective type of guy feeling from him early on, but he was the bad guy, right? So I'm like, oh, okay, maybe he's this evil guy who's going to kind of save everybody, but still be evil.

00:50:03.74
Clifton Campbell
You know, they'd like to do that in the seventies where, you know, they kind of check do the role rehearsals and things, but no, then then we do this switch and suddenly, oh, he is the good guy.

00:50:06.34
Frank Dietz
Right. Yeah.

00:50:11.86
Clifton Campbell
And now he's going to start whomping some ass and, you know, saving everybody, which I thought was fantastic.

00:50:16.79
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah it's uh uh i i

00:50:18.71
Marty Ketola
And apparently he didn't want to be revealed as the good guy until like the end of the movie. But then they switched it on him halfway through production and he's like, well, I can't quit the movie now.

00:50:29.31
Marty Ketola
so But he was real adamant about I don't want anybody to know that I'm the good guy the very end.

00:50:30.01
Clifton Campbell
Oh, really? Mm-hmm.

00:50:33.27
Frank Dietz
i don't i don't yeah i don't know if

00:50:34.71
Marty Ketola
But that's weird, isn't it? Yeah.

00:50:36.66
Frank Dietz
I don't know how they could have really pulled that off for that long in the story.

00:50:38.34
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:50:41.32
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:50:43.10
Frank Dietz
um I mean, i'm I'm sure somebody could have come up with something, but ah you know if they could bring if they could bring two apes back after the world blows up

00:50:55.29
Marty Ketola
ah

00:50:55.99
Frank Dietz
i think they could probably come up with something i'm pretty sure uh by the way no no not this that movie was a couple of years earlier um but um the ah one of the other things that made me like completely fall in love with with this film were the costumes i love the those western movies where the gut where the men wore three-piece suits and had a holster

00:51:24.28
Clifton Campbell
and moving

00:51:24.47
Frank Dietz
You know, like like what a cool look is.

00:51:26.17
Clifton Campbell
very tombstone

00:51:27.99
Frank Dietz
They have like a watch fob here and the vest and everything. But they got this huge holster with their put their gun ready. but i

00:51:35.58
Clifton Campbell
the coat with the tails you got the coat with the tails yeah

00:51:37.40
Frank Dietz
Oh, my God. i wanted so badly that larry blemire at one point had a really good uh western script and uh uh and uh we never got to make it but i was just i always was saying it was like i had a had a picture of krena from from from this movie and i was like this is what i need to wear like um make me happy larry um uh go

00:52:04.58
Clifton Campbell
So at 30, 38 minutes in this movie, I'll bring the the image to your mind. So at 38 minutes, Ben Johnson is rolling cigarette and he leans against the a dresser and he puts cigarette in his mouth and he lights the cig and Charlie's standing behind him in the doorway, sipping a cup of coffee.

00:52:22.80
Clifton Campbell
Right. And the focus is a hard focus on Ben and Charlie soft in the background.

00:52:23.75
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:52:28.78
Clifton Campbell
I just pointed out because it's a perfect opportunity for a diopter shot. It is the absolute perfect opportunity to fucking take the diopter, put it on the camera, get you that nice double focus, you know?

00:52:32.37
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:52:35.67
Marty Ketola
Yeah, but but does that fit the rest of the feel?

00:52:40.73
Clifton Campbell
um who cares? It's going to look great.

00:52:42.36
Marty Ketola
It would have looked great, but I get why they didn't they didn't go for it.

00:52:42.82
Clifton Campbell
It's going to look great. i do too.

00:52:45.80
Marty Ketola
It's funny that you you bring that up because I was thinking, this movie's a lot about imbibing.

00:52:46.94
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:52:51.32
Marty Ketola
The guy's either rolling a cigarette or he's having the coffee or they're drinking the liquor or I'm helping myself to more of the liquor and I'm helping myself to the more of the liquor.

00:52:53.24
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:52:54.57
Frank Dietz
Mm-hmm.

00:52:58.76
Marty Ketola
Weren't you just tied up a few minutes ago and now you're like running the place? You know, he's running, sneaking around. That's pretty fun. Yeah.

00:53:06.30
Clifton Campbell
Yes, it is.

00:53:06.95
Frank Dietz
Well, I think that, you know, Alistair MacLean, who wrote the book, um and I think he wrote, he might have written the screenplay, I'm not sure.

00:53:07.49
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:53:15.59
Frank Dietz
um But, ah you know, if you look at the kind of books that he wrote, they were almost always like James Bond novels, but with

00:53:23.42
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:53:24.38
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, this this feels like that.

00:53:25.37
Frank Dietz
a different character different kind of character in the in the James Bond role, right?

00:53:25.96
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yes, very much so. Yes.

00:53:30.81
Frank Dietz
you know If you look at yeah you know um The Guns of Navarone, the Gregory Peck character, or yeah I mean, in any one of those movies, you're gonna'll you'll see that his heroes were always, you know could it's but only now it's or whatever.

00:53:51.68
Frank Dietz
mean?

00:53:52.05
Clifton Campbell
It's great.

00:53:52.36
Frank Dietz
And I think that i think that's you know kind of what they intended for for Charles Bronson, to be a little maybe a little more sophisticated than he was in other Westerns, more more you know more so than, i mean, Harmonica in Once Upon a Time of the West is a great character,

00:54:00.65
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:54:09.11
Frank Dietz
And, you know, he's not stupid or anything like that, but he's also not, he's not, you know, he's not erudite or, you know, and I think maybe they were trying to see if Bronson could, could you know, handle the, ah you know, the the three-piece suit kind of Western, you know, and clearly he could.

00:54:11.42
Clifton Campbell
He's not sophisticated yet.

00:54:15.70
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:54:20.19
Clifton Campbell
Pull that off.

00:54:27.58
Frank Dietz
um I think he's terrific. It's my favorite Bronson movie. um You know, yeah.

00:54:30.88
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:54:31.36
Clifton Campbell
That's a good one. It's definitely a good one.

00:54:32.86
Frank Dietz
I mean, I like Death Wish a lot too, the original Death Wish. But,

00:54:36.92
Clifton Campbell
This kind of goes against type for him, though, which is, I think, what i like why I like it.

00:54:40.13
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:54:40.36
Clifton Campbell
I mean, because, it like you just said, it he he goes against kind of his type, but he pulls it off no problem. Like, I have no problem watching him play this character and and and and suspending my disbelief and going with it.

00:54:52.48
Clifton Campbell
It's great, you know? i i might One of my things that I laughed at was how he's this, you know, they all talk about, you know, he's we're not going to tie him up in legs and his arms, and, you know, this guy...

00:55:03.52
Clifton Campbell
killed all these people and set down to a fire and holy shit all right let's go to bed and everybody just honk you know fucking honk shoes and honk shoes in bed while this guy runs around doing all these things that he needs to do it's so funny to me was i couldn't help but i mean that's how movies especially back then were it was like all right well everybody at at this point would go to sleep and now the hero would get up and go running around of course that makes complete sense right yes exactly exactly like enter the dragon yes that's a good call

00:55:09.15
Frank Dietz
Yep.

00:55:12.02
Frank Dietz
peace

00:55:17.43
Frank Dietz
okay

00:55:26.51
Marty Ketola
It's like Enter the Dragon, right? yeah Bruce Lee's going to go sneaking around at night.

00:55:33.59
Clifton Campbell
The blood in this movie has got that that red 70s blood.

00:55:37.02
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Almost like a Hammer movie, right?

00:55:37.34
Clifton Campbell
Did you guys notice that? I was immediately like, oh, it looks like a fucking, me exactly like a Hammer movie. Yes.

00:55:41.78
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

00:55:42.06
Clifton Campbell
And then that red is repeated in one of the cars.

00:55:42.75
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:55:45.42
Clifton Campbell
There's a red velvet border around one of the pictures and it's that same color red.

00:55:47.32
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:55:49.70
Clifton Campbell
And I i tend to associate that particular shade of red with the 70s because I just don't see it much anymore.

00:55:55.17
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:55:55.86
Clifton Campbell
But when I watch a 70s movie and I see that blood or that color, I'm like, ah, there's that there's that color that's just so distinct to that era. It's crazy.

00:56:03.77
Frank Dietz
Yeah, and and and i I imagine also that they would probably, in ah in a scene that has the the blood element to it, It might kick it up ah kick up the ah ah you know see to the brilliance of it just a touch, right?

00:56:19.32
Clifton Campbell
Right.

00:56:19.35
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

00:56:19.96
Clifton Campbell
Okay. Sure.

00:56:21.09
Frank Dietz
So that it's so that it's red.

00:56:22.84
Clifton Campbell
Really plays red.

00:56:23.21
Frank Dietz
you know It's blood red.

00:56:24.12
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:56:25.97
Frank Dietz
And you know then later on, you know they they discovered all kinds of new formulas for blood, um some better, some worse.

00:56:26.54
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:56:33.90
Frank Dietz
But still, um you know that I think that's something that's still evolving, honestly. um I had to, for my Halloween costume, I had to go out and get some fake ah fake blood, which I hadn't used since I was like probably you know ah in middle school, right?

00:56:48.80
Frank Dietz
you know The little tube of

00:56:50.91
Clifton Campbell
He had a little tube of fake blood.

00:56:51.99
Frank Dietz
vampire blood it was called right vampire blood maybe i'm older than you guys anyway but i got this stuff and because i was i was going as as hugh grant from um heretic and ah so i know so i just wanted that like cut he would he get scratched on the side of his face so i wanted that little bit of blood and and i was amazed i was like that blood looks real like like this doesn't look like the blood i grew up with

00:56:57.51
Marty Ketola
Thank you.

00:57:09.24
Clifton Campbell
Sure.

00:57:16.54
Clifton Campbell
No, no. The stuff that we had was so fake looking, it wasn't even funny.

00:57:19.64
Frank Dietz
Yeah, it really was.

00:57:21.43
Clifton Campbell
um

00:57:21.46
Marty Ketola
you

00:57:22.52
Clifton Campbell
I want to point out that there is a fantastic stunt, um a really killer stunt. I mean, and it's the fight on top of the of the train and where they where they both end up where they both end up hanging by one hand over the fucking rail.

00:57:31.93
Frank Dietz
Oh yeah. That's the poster.

00:57:37.56
Clifton Campbell
And I'm i'm looking for the the guide wires or the or the things that are keeping them. I'm thinking, I think that that's actually them by their own damn hands over that fucking bridge. And it looks it looks dangerous and it looks scary.

00:57:49.44
Clifton Campbell
And it was a really, really well done stunt. Like you can take all the fast and the furious shit all you want.

00:57:53.02
Frank Dietz
Oh, it's...

00:57:56.44
Clifton Campbell
I want to see more stuff like that, that looks real and looks scary and looks like, my God, those stuntmen really could have died.

00:57:56.89
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

00:58:03.14
Clifton Campbell
like Like, I think at one point, one of the guys grabs the other one when he's on the roof and kind of keeps him just not from falling, but but just to make sure he can secure his grip like you're good.

00:58:08.41
Frank Dietz
from From going over?

00:58:13.29
Clifton Campbell
And then they start fighting again. and I was just like, holy crap, dude. If I was filming that, I would be holding my breath going, well, you guys got to survive. You got to survive because I got to cut at end of this, right?

00:58:21.88
Frank Dietz
And it's yeah.

00:58:23.17
Clifton Campbell
Like, holy shit.

00:58:23.84
Frank Dietz
And there's snow, there's snow on the top of the train.

00:58:24.09
Clifton Campbell
I know. That's what i'm talking about. There's snow everywhere. And it's just like, this looks dangerous as hell.

00:58:31.24
Frank Dietz
Well, I think Archie Moore was an actual like boxer in real life, right? wasn't, wasn't an actor exactly.

00:58:37.09
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:58:40.70
Frank Dietz
And, and I know they made a big deal about Cause I saw this movie in 1975 in the movie theater.

00:58:46.60
Marty Ketola
Okay.

00:58:46.85
Frank Dietz
And, uh,

00:58:46.74
Marty Ketola
okay

00:58:47.99
Frank Dietz
um and

00:58:48.15
Clifton Campbell
okay

00:58:49.66
Frank Dietz
ah And I remember when it when it came out, the public but you know the PR people were really marketing the ah the the fact that you know Charles Bronson is going to fight Archie Moore on this train.

00:59:03.02
Frank Dietz
And and that's why the poster for the movie is is is a painting, really great painting, by the way, of you know of of Bronson hanging off the side of the train and you know Archie Moore standing over him.

00:59:06.55
Clifton Campbell
Okay. oh Okay. That makes sense.

00:59:15.70
Frank Dietz
and

00:59:16.57
Clifton Campbell
going step on him.

00:59:16.60
Frank Dietz
And you know it's it's over the bridge, so it's like a really long way down.

00:59:17.41
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

00:59:20.32
Frank Dietz
you know It's a beautiful painting. I love, I love i i miss miss painted be most posters.

00:59:22.71
Clifton Campbell
It's great. Oh, buddy. I miss them. I miss those so much that the old Goonies posters, the old Raiders poster, the old, my goodness.

00:59:27.19
Frank Dietz
God. Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:31.49
Clifton Campbell
There were so many great ones.

00:59:31.83
Marty Ketola
where we had our movie posters hand-drawn as well. Cliff's got two of them behind there because we all we always liked that look too.

00:59:39.38
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah um ah now the other the other uh yeah that fight scene is is so good uh and uh and i don't know how many how how many other movies had you know fights on top of trains before that probably probably in some silent movies you know where they didn't give a shit about if you lived or died as long as they got the movie finished um but the other big scene

00:59:39.62
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:57.72
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:00:09.82
Frank Dietz
which is pretty remarkable uh you know for even even for 1975 is the train crash which is spectacular i mean i remember like seeing seeing it in the on the big screen and and just being like

01:00:17.43
Clifton Campbell
Yes.

01:00:17.24
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:00:18.33
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, it's so good.

01:00:23.64
Clifton Campbell
Is that real or is that miniature?

01:00:26.85
Marty Ketola
Oh, it's real.

01:00:28.12
Clifton Campbell
Is real?

01:00:28.01
Marty Ketola
Oh,

01:00:29.21
Frank Dietz
Wow, like it looked, I know you know it's i know it's ah it's a it's, well, you call it a miniature.

01:00:30.26
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, it's fantastic.

01:00:34.53
Frank Dietz
It's ah it's a lot bigger than a miniature.

01:00:36.28
Marty Ketola
oh okay.

01:00:36.57
Frank Dietz
It's it's very big, right?

01:00:37.76
Clifton Campbell
It's a scale, but still.

01:00:38.53
Frank Dietz
Because it's got to have that kind of weight to it, you know?

01:00:41.59
Clifton Campbell
Right, right, right.

01:00:42.19
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:00:43.19
Clifton Campbell
It looked fantastic. I mean, it looked, i mean, they pulled that. It looks so realistic and scary, especially the buildup is excellent where he shoots the door and he's climbing out and he's cranking on that.

01:00:45.90
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:00:49.95
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

01:00:50.46
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:00:53.84
Clifton Campbell
Cause I'm, I'm, I'm thinking that caboose has got a break on it guys. Just get to the caboose.

01:00:57.08
Frank Dietz
yeah yeah

01:00:58.18
Clifton Campbell
That's what a caboose is for is to break the train.

01:00:58.37
Marty Ketola
They

01:01:00.14
Clifton Campbell
Just get to the caboose. And he does, and he starts cranking and then you realize, ah, shit, that's way too late. And then wham, off they go.

01:01:05.62
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:08.12
Clifton Campbell
Holy crap.

01:01:09.08
Marty Ketola
and were supposed to be dumb.

01:01:09.85
Frank Dietz
yeah just Just the way they shot that the buildup too is like you're you're you're you're inside the ah the train car and you're looking out.

01:01:10.61
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

01:01:20.74
Frank Dietz
And I think it's Ed is ed Lauder is sitting there like having tea or something. and you you see the ah the other the rest of the train starting to separate.

01:01:26.46
Marty Ketola
right

01:01:28.18
Clifton Campbell
ah Start to go backwards. Yes.

01:01:29.46
Frank Dietz
like so like i mean it's such a great shot and it's so cool

01:01:30.32
Clifton Campbell
Marty,

01:01:34.42
Frank Dietz
but

01:01:37.36
Clifton Campbell
what else you got?

01:01:38.60
Marty Ketola
Oh, apparently there was there was dummies inside those train cars, but they didn't flop out during the explosion.

01:01:43.06
Frank Dietz
yes

01:01:45.06
Clifton Campbell
Flop out. ah

01:01:45.64
Marty Ketola
And it's maybe it's better that they didn't because it might have made it look fakey or something, you know?

01:01:51.26
Frank Dietz
there there You could see one or two of them.

01:01:53.69
Marty Ketola
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:54.36
Frank Dietz
um ah not all Not a whole lot of them, but at least one or two because can vividly remember um seeing them there.

01:01:59.69
Marty Ketola
Hmm.

01:02:01.00
Frank Dietz
And yeah, I mean, you know yes, you know in your mind that they're not real people and they're dummies, but I actually thought that they look pretty good for considering They were dummies that are only, you know, about this big probably.

01:02:12.58
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:02:12.47
Marty Ketola
ah

01:02:14.42
Clifton Campbell
When they...

01:02:14.42
Frank Dietz
if you consider If you consider the size of the of the the miniature that they're going to destroy.

01:02:17.99
Clifton Campbell
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

01:02:21.30
Clifton Campbell
when they threw that, when they threw that dude off the bridge at the beginning and Bronson had to go down and get him, I was just like, Oh shit.

01:02:24.40
Marty Ketola
Oh, man.

01:02:26.66
Clifton Campbell
Like like i kind of jumped because I was, it's such a sudden, suddenly he's flying off this bridge and whacking himself all the way down.

01:02:30.24
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

01:02:33.75
Frank Dietz
Yeah, right.

01:02:34.46
Clifton Campbell
was like, Oh man, that's super violent. That's kind of awesome. Like, Holy movie's not playing around.

01:02:37.62
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:02:39.67
Marty Ketola
like, hopefully there won't any more accidents.

01:02:40.18
Frank Dietz
yeah

01:02:41.35
Marty Ketola
And then two seconds later, ah, oh, shit.

01:02:43.90
Clifton Campbell
but

01:02:44.14
Frank Dietz
He would

01:02:47.38
Clifton Campbell
I just want to say that Charles Durning is the character actor of all character actors. you could take that man and put him in any movie, give him any part in the movie. Hey, I'm 62 years old.

01:02:57.78
Clifton Campbell
Great. You're playing a four-year-old and you're at a dinner party and you want cake. And he'd be like, cool. And you'd be like, that's, he would eat that shit up.

01:03:02.46
Marty Ketola
ah

01:03:02.85
Frank Dietz
Yeah. he would rock that diaper

01:03:05.53
Clifton Campbell
He would kill that. He would kill that. He, I truly believe that I love character. as they're my My favorite actors are character actors. I do love a great actor, a Denzel, but character actors are where it's at because Denzel ain't shit without a bunch of character actors around him that can really, you know, create the world and, and, and give him something to work with.

01:03:22.64
Frank Dietz
The liver.

01:03:24.87
Clifton Campbell
Right. Like he's, he can't just work at work with a blank wall. He's got to have somebody giving him, giving him something back and going back and forth. And I think these guys are amazing. There's so many good actors in this movie.

01:03:36.80
Clifton Campbell
It's disgusting.

01:03:36.99
Marty Ketola
Oh yeah. yeah

01:03:38.29
Clifton Campbell
It's just unbelievable. Richard Crenna, like you said, is the only man who could talk Rambo out of a crazy psychosis.

01:03:39.77
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:03:44.01
Clifton Campbell
Richard fucking Crenna, man.

01:03:44.67
Frank Dietz
Yep.

01:03:45.65
Clifton Campbell
He's the, he's the man.

01:03:45.91
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:03:46.81
Clifton Campbell
So love this movie.

01:03:47.34
Frank Dietz
Oh, man. ah There are some movies that he's in that just means so much to me. The Sand Pebbles, the Robert Wise movie that is is brilliant.

01:04:00.27
Frank Dietz
Body Heat, ah which he has a relatively small part in Body Heat, but it's a good part.

01:04:02.49
Clifton Campbell
Oh, shit, yes.

01:04:07.22
Frank Dietz
And there's a scene in that with between him and William Hurt at dinner that I i study it because I'm looking at at them looking into each other.

01:04:21.29
Frank Dietz
not you know by their words and by their expressions and it's uh it's a it's a great film um but um uh and first blood first blood is is fucking great and and and richard krenner once said ah i'm gonna owe kirk douglas for the rest of my life because he made me he made me millions of dollars by dropping out of first blood

01:04:21.34
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

01:04:31.13
Clifton Campbell
Oh.

01:04:41.59
Clifton Campbell
Oh, Jesus. Jesus. I think people, and because of the sequels that followed, I think people really overlook First Blood.

01:04:44.12
Frank Dietz
yeah

01:04:49.50
Clifton Campbell
I really think that it's, because people think, well, what, it's just, ah it's just Stallone with the muscles and shoot them It's like, no, no, no, no.

01:04:49.61
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

01:04:54.98
Clifton Campbell
That's, that's the follow-up movies. That's, that's, you know Rocky one is a great movie because he loses. Right.

01:05:01.37
Frank Dietz
Yeah, right.

01:05:01.71
Clifton Campbell
It's Rocky two, three and four where you begin to build this kind of crazy Rocky legend. Right. First blood is about this poor frickin guy who's a Vietnam veteran who's got some problems and is just trying to get from one into town to the other.

01:05:14.07
Clifton Campbell
and And, you know, then and police who can't just help but fuck with it. Right. And this explosion that comes from it.

01:05:18.14
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:05:19.11
Clifton Campbell
It's brilliant.

01:05:19.92
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:05:20.07
Clifton Campbell
It's not what comes after, you know, I love that movie.

01:05:21.55
Frank Dietz
It's great. Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, it's true. um But there were there was a couple of other things. Oh, ah ah going back to ah the parts of Brekart Pass that that that all become, you know, some of the whole.

01:05:39.98
Frank Dietz
And that's the the music.

01:05:40.28
Clifton Campbell
Right.

01:05:42.77
Clifton Campbell
It's really good.

01:05:43.03
Frank Dietz
ah the The score is, it's just, it's a really like, really cool, like thrilling Western, but not like, ah it's not hokey, you know, it's, um right, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, um and, you know, a score, you know, as you well know, like can make or break a film, um you know, ah and and I love when a Western does something that,

01:05:54.94
Clifton Campbell
so like the yeah It's not doing like the Cowboys type of thing, right? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I agree with you.

01:06:18.62
Frank Dietz
isn't expected exactly. um i mean, you know, basically after the after the Magnificent Seven, you know, every every Western tried to emulate that sound, right?

01:06:30.20
Frank Dietz
um Because it became it became iconic.

01:06:33.76
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:06:33.78
Frank Dietz
And that like,

01:06:35.03
Clifton Campbell
For good reason.

01:06:36.38
Frank Dietz
yeah and ah and so i think that like So if you have you have somebody like, um I don't remember who did the music offhand here, but um I was just trying to look it up. but um But if you have a Jerry Goldsmith or you have you know somebody like that that is ah you know at the helm of of creating that score, you're in good hands, right? um um I was trying to look and see.

01:07:05.72
Clifton Campbell
looking I'm looking at, looking it up right now. Keep going.

01:07:07.10
Frank Dietz
Yeah, OK.

01:07:07.28
Clifton Campbell
I'll tell you here in just a second.

01:07:08.47
Frank Dietz
all right um All right, cool. um ah you know it's one one ah one of the I mean, it's a sci-fi Western, but it is Jerry Goldman.

01:07:14.41
Clifton Campbell
Oh, it's Jerry. It's Jerry Goldsmith.

01:07:17.57
Frank Dietz
OK, how about that?

01:07:17.66
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Jerry Goldsmith.

01:07:19.12
Frank Dietz
I was right.

01:07:19.48
Clifton Campbell
Hey, look at you. Yeah.

01:07:20.73
Frank Dietz
one at At least once a day. um ah so But if you look at um The Valley of Gwangi, the Ray Harryhausen film, which is a dinosaur movie, but it's also a Western.

01:07:31.47
Clifton Campbell
No. I'm

01:07:35.32
Frank Dietz
and the um jerome moss who did the score found this perfect mesh of monster movie and western that that it's it's it's like a perfect score for that movie and i so i love that i love when you know the he you know somebody takes something new and introduces it that doesn't veer that far off but still is fresh in some in some manner

01:07:37.28
Clifton Campbell
going have to watch that again.

01:08:04.64
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. um Let me see. Look at my notes here.

01:08:11.29
Frank Dietz
Wow, I just killed the whole conversation.

01:08:13.40
Clifton Campbell
No, you're good.

01:08:13.88
Frank Dietz
Jesus, Frank.

01:08:14.04
Clifton Campbell
Totally. wait Way to go, Frank.

01:08:15.93
Frank Dietz
but

01:08:16.38
Marty Ketola
It's just the tide going out to the ocean is all about.

01:08:17.02
Frank Dietz
yeah I know, right?

01:08:19.42
Clifton Campbell
so So the train ist head train is a number nine train.

01:08:19.74
Frank Dietz
heaven

01:08:22.46
Clifton Campbell
So right away, we like start thinking about the Beatles and number nine, you know, and Revolution number nine. and But the thing that I keep coming...

01:08:30.90
Frank Dietz
Strange I didn't.

01:08:32.70
Clifton Campbell
things I keep coming back to is the fact that this fucking train, he drives it like it's the family grocery getter. Like he's like, sure, let me just throw it in the first and we'll get going here.

01:08:39.92
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:08:42.42
Frank Dietz
yeah

01:08:42.89
Clifton Campbell
And then, and then so he's like, oh Oh my God. earth Oh, look at me. I stopped just in time. Look at me.

01:08:48.13
Marty Ketola
What kind of train you want to have?

01:08:48.64
Clifton Campbell
Boy, boy

01:08:50.21
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:08:50.74
Clifton Campbell
First time I'm driving a train, but I'm killing it. Right? Like, I'm killing it. Anyway, I just... I love this movie. I thought it was a lot of fun.

01:08:57.53
Marty Ketola
yeah

01:08:57.98
Clifton Campbell
I really thought it was a lot of fucking fun.

01:08:58.81
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:08:59.94
Clifton Campbell
And a smart, smart take on a mystery, on a train mystery train type of movie.

01:09:00.47
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:09:05.42
Clifton Campbell
Again, when i when I'm watching this and I'm going, am I about to get fucking...

01:09:05.53
Marty Ketola
yeah Mystery train.

01:09:09.08
Clifton Campbell
am I about to get murdered on the Orient Express and in a Western? oh Oh shit. I am with Charles Bronson.

01:09:13.50
Frank Dietz
I am. Yeah.

01:09:14.63
Clifton Campbell
I got, I got real excited and, uh, you know, and I love the fact that it's 95 minutes.

01:09:19.95
Marty Ketola
Oh yeah, good pacing, yeah.

01:09:20.47
Clifton Campbell
Boom, boom, boom.

01:09:20.68
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:22.20
Clifton Campbell
You know, we're not, we're not farting around. We're not trying to do a love story with the lead lady. None of that shit in out.

01:09:26.36
Marty Ketola
No.

01:09:27.96
Clifton Campbell
Boom. I'm Charlie Bronson, the secret service guy. And I love that fact. He just at the end, he walks, they, they, they have that big crane shot where they pull away from him and he walks away from everything and walks towards the camera a bit and then just kind of stands off and looks into the distance.

01:09:35.99
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:09:42.14
Frank Dietz
And doesn't it go to like see sepia tone?

01:09:43.13
Clifton Campbell
Fade to black. I think so.

01:09:45.69
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:09:45.94
Frank Dietz
Yeah, right.

01:09:46.07
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. It goes to that weird, it goes to that weird kind of dot matrix printing type of line.

01:09:48.02
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:09:50.46
Frank Dietz
Right, all right, right, right.

01:09:50.99
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:51.62
Frank Dietz
Yeah, the lines, right, right, right.

01:09:51.83
Clifton Campbell
Yeah. yeah Yes.

01:09:53.05
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:09:53.42
Clifton Campbell
Yes. So good.

01:09:54.58
Frank Dietz
ah ah ah Yeah.

01:09:54.66
Clifton Campbell
So good. I really appreciate you bringing this movie. This was a pleasure to watch.

01:09:58.55
Marty Ketola
Yeah.

01:09:59.41
Clifton Campbell
so It was a lot of fun.

01:09:59.89
Frank Dietz
Well, great. I'm glad I i feel like ah I had a hard time actually picking three. I because i didn't want to necessarily ah be ah like you'd expect me to pick three you know horror movies or something just based on you know what I'm kind of known for.

01:10:15.58
Clifton Campbell
Right. Yeah.

01:10:17.48
Frank Dietz
and I definitely didn't want to do that exactly. So Day of the Earth Caught Fire. if If you haven't seen that movie, you guys should check it out.

01:10:26.30
Marty Ketola
Oh,

01:10:26.69
Frank Dietz
It's really good, really good.

01:10:28.23
Clifton Campbell
um' I've actually, I've had that, ah jeff Jeff has recommended that to us on several occasions and i need i need to watch it.

01:10:28.45
Frank Dietz
at

01:10:32.19
Marty Ketola
our French chef.

01:10:33.03
Frank Dietz
OK, yeah, it's it's I mean that the there's a certain hyperbole to the to the title of the movie. It sounds it sounds a lot more sort of, um you know, I don't know,

01:10:45.08
Frank Dietz
a

01:10:46.10
Clifton Campbell
Oh,

01:10:46.95
Frank Dietz
campy or whatever, you know what I mean? it's it's a It's a much bigger title than it probably needed to be, but it the movie isn't anything like that. a movie is very realistic and and and really surprising.

01:11:00.70
Frank Dietz
and And one of Michael Caine's first roles, he's and he has like two lines.

01:11:04.50
Marty Ketola
Oh,

01:11:06.38
Frank Dietz
He's a cop.

01:11:06.51
Clifton Campbell
wow. Okay.

01:11:07.46
Frank Dietz
Oh.

01:11:07.87
Clifton Campbell
Wow.

01:11:07.93
Frank Dietz
ah

01:11:08.82
Clifton Campbell
we'll have We'll have to have you back on for, um we do a um spooky season. Every year. And we do, we do, we do spooky movies.

01:11:13.80
Marty Ketola
yeah. Yeah,

01:11:15.92
Clifton Campbell
And so, you you know, you might, you might come back and we'll give you, you know, give you a choice of three spooky movies. you can give us choice, three spooky movies.

01:11:21.01
Frank Dietz
Oh, shit.

01:11:21.88
Clifton Campbell
We'll have a good old time with that.

01:11:22.90
Marty Ketola
that'd be good.

01:11:23.42
Frank Dietz
Yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

01:11:24.80
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:11:24.98
Frank Dietz
um There are two ah lines that I particularly like in Breckhardt Pass. I just want to say one of them is between Governor.

01:11:31.13
Clifton Campbell
Hit me with it.

01:11:34.98
Frank Dietz
governor ah Oh, no, but it's between Deakins and and his wife, Jill Ireland. And ah he says to her, you know, you can't tell anyone about this.

01:11:47.29
Frank Dietz
And she says, not even the governor. And he says, especially not the governor. and then then you're like okay because that's now we're really starting to set up like what the you know things are and then the other one and then the other one and it's it's i love how krenner just throws this line away but they they discover that deacons is not who he said he is on board right he's obviously secret service and krenner is just like well find him and kill him

01:11:58.63
Marty Ketola
It's

01:12:00.63
Clifton Campbell
where the loyalties lie.

01:12:18.20
Frank Dietz
Just like that.

01:12:18.10
Marty Ketola
yeah

01:12:18.42
Clifton Campbell
Yep. Well, it's something we do all the time.

01:12:18.84
Frank Dietz
Like, you know, like it's nothing, you know?

01:12:19.29
Marty Ketola
ah like a bond villain, yeah.

01:12:23.35
Frank Dietz
Yeah. yeah

01:12:24.73
Clifton Campbell
um

01:12:25.37
Marty Ketola
Like, where's my franchise with this?

01:12:25.78
Clifton Campbell
My favorite,

01:12:26.89
Marty Ketola
You know, he could have been the next Bond in the old west, you know?

01:12:30.14
Clifton Campbell
Absolutely. Absolutely. Brekart pass. And then you do another one with like salt flats where, you know, you get stuck out in the middle of nowhere on a stage coach and then you do another one. you know, I mean you could do a bunch of these with him.

01:12:41.62
Clifton Campbell
Great idea. Um, well, what do you give it there?

01:12:43.06
Frank Dietz
yeah

01:12:44.85
Clifton Campbell
Uh, Frank.

01:12:46.46
Frank Dietz
Oh, i and I'm... I'm probably giving it ah an extra half, just ah partially out of the nostalgia of it, the fact that it's got my boy, Crenna, in it.

01:12:55.23
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:12:55.89
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:12:58.06
Frank Dietz
And it's just a great movie. I i give it a four and a half. And that's the same it's the same rating that I would probably give to like Butch Cassidy.

01:13:08.25
Clifton Campbell
Wow. Okay. Wow. That's a, that's Goldman. That's good stuff. um He's my favorite screenwriter of all time.

01:13:12.95
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:13:14.75
Clifton Campbell
um

01:13:15.16
Frank Dietz
Oh, yeah.

01:13:16.15
Clifton Campbell
Four stars is for me.

01:13:16.66
Frank Dietz
Nobody knows anything.

01:13:18.33
Clifton Campbell
Nobody knows anything. I've read both his books and they're, they're some of my favorite, the way he describes actors is some of the funniest shit I've ever heard in my entire life.

01:13:20.57
Frank Dietz
Yeah. Yeah.

01:13:25.53
Clifton Campbell
Uh, but yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go four stars.

01:13:25.69
Frank Dietz
Oh, yeah.

01:13:27.53
Clifton Campbell
I think it's, I think it's right up there.

01:13:27.67
Marty Ketola
right

01:13:28.81
Frank Dietz
OK.

01:13:29.21
Clifton Campbell
Probably what really, other than some of the, the iconic stuff that Bronson was in the magnificent seven, how the West was one step is up. This is right up there. This is, I'd watch this over, uh, uh, the, the death wish any day of the week.

01:13:37.61
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:13:42.52
Marty Ketola
Yeah, it's more fun.

01:13:42.68
Frank Dietz
Yeah, me too.

01:13:44.63
Marty Ketola
now I'll give it...

01:13:44.89
Clifton Campbell
Absolutely.

01:13:45.40
Frank Dietz
Yeah, I mean, that's what's just kind of lurid.

01:13:48.15
Clifton Campbell
It is, yeah.

01:13:48.06
Marty Ketola
And this is the after Death Wish, too, which is kind of neat.

01:13:48.47
Frank Dietz
i was like,

01:13:49.91
Clifton Campbell
Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's it's no Kenjite forbidden secrets, but it's it's it's pretty bad.

01:13:50.42
Marty Ketola
yeah

01:13:50.71
Frank Dietz
like

01:13:54.04
Marty Ketola
What is, Cliff?

01:13:55.00
Frank Dietz
well, I'm sorry.

01:13:55.17
Marty Ketola
What is...

01:13:55.80
Frank Dietz
watching watching Watching this skinny young Jeff Goldblum make ah make this girl give him a blowjob is like, like I do and want to see that.

01:14:03.70
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:14:06.97
Frank Dietz
And you and I, you know, I...

01:14:10.78
Clifton Campbell
Doctor Malcolm, no!

01:14:13.01
Frank Dietz
i've i've met i've met jeff many times and that's disturbing to me now yeah yeah

01:14:18.19
Clifton Campbell
That's so funny. Marty, what are you doing? I don't know. That's it.

01:14:26.43
Marty Ketola
Well, it was an effective scene, at least, right?

01:14:26.68
Frank Dietz
yeah

01:14:29.56
Clifton Campbell
Mm-hmm.

01:14:30.71
Marty Ketola
I give it a three and a half. I really did enjoy it, and I feel like on future viewings, the rating's probably going to go up, because I'm going to find more to enjoy and more to pieces to connect from the beginning to the end.

01:14:43.89
Marty Ketola
Knowing who everybody is right from the beginning is going to cast a whole different light on starting it over.

01:14:48.72
Frank Dietz
It's true, yeah.

01:14:48.78
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:14:49.05
Marty Ketola
Mm-hmm.

01:14:49.66
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:14:50.01
Frank Dietz
yeah you will you

01:14:50.04
Clifton Campbell
Well, and and it does.

01:14:51.37
Frank Dietz
Yeah, you'll notice interactions that you probably wouldn't have noticed before yeah everything was revealed.

01:14:54.68
Clifton Campbell
Right. and Especially that, especially that beginning scene where they just pull into that town and everybody's acting kind of fucking weird.

01:15:00.98
Marty Ketola
yeah

01:15:02.26
Clifton Campbell
Like, don't go to the warehouse, go catch these people. Where are they? Everybody stay near the train, damn it. You know, and what's going on? Why is everybody acting so frigging weird? You know, how come nobody's allowed on this train all of a sudden?

01:15:10.26
Marty Ketola
yeah

01:15:12.94
Clifton Campbell
Like, you know what i mean? Because it's that's pretty normal to give a guy from Indian Fairs a ride, you know, or to give a, Another kind of lawman or something, just, taught you know, a ride on a train. That's, that's pretty standard back then from what I've understood.

01:15:24.78
Clifton Campbell
It's not like it's, you know, weird. Anyway, I loved it. I really enjoyed it. My favorite, let's get out of here on a quote, guys.

01:15:32.79
Marty Ketola
Oh, well, i want to tell you what your movies are for next week. Terror Train and Runaway Train.

01:15:35.80
Clifton Campbell
Oh, that's right.

01:15:36.99
Marty Ketola
No, I'm kidding, Cliff. Oh, yeah.

01:15:38.42
Frank Dietz
ah Oh, yeah ah horror horror express.

01:15:41.25
Marty Ketola
There's some Telly Savalas in here.

01:15:47.73
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:15:48.86
Clifton Campbell
What's, what are the next movies?

01:15:50.55
Marty Ketola
Oh, you'll just tune in and see, people.

01:15:50.76
Clifton Campbell
Do we know? Tune in to see.

01:15:52.83
Marty Ketola
We are scheduled to sew all over the place.

01:15:53.62
Clifton Campbell
Oh, we don't, we don't announce those. All right. All right. Well, so then let's get out of here on a quote.

01:15:57.21
Frank Dietz
Well,

01:15:58.46
Clifton Campbell
um I'll go first. You dumb pilgrims. There's nobody in that engine.

01:16:06.01
Marty Ketola
Jen, I knew there was something wrong with that guy. i never met a gin drinker yet that you could trust. All

01:16:14.17
Clifton Campbell
Make it in your bathtub for Christ's sakes.

01:16:19.79
Frank Dietz
already told you the shoes that I love. So we're covered there.

01:16:22.56
Clifton Campbell
Perfect. Perfect.

01:16:24.50
Marty Ketola
right.

01:16:25.34
Clifton Campbell
Hey, Frank, thanks so much for coming on.

01:16:26.52
Marty Ketola
Yeah, thank you.

01:16:27.58
Clifton Campbell
it was a blast. we I really enjoyed talking to you and hearing your thoughts on these movies.

01:16:29.59
Frank Dietz
Yeah.

01:16:31.03
Marty Ketola
Yeah, that was fun.

01:16:32.10
Clifton Campbell
you have ah You have a unique perspective that we don't often get to get to have. So thanks a ton. All right, let's get out of here.

01:16:38.65
Frank Dietz
sure i no believe me this was uh anytime i you i love this uh this is uh you know now that i i don't do a lot of the things i used to do um you know i've but had a lot of model things in my careers um but ah you know this is just so much fun do to just to really talk about film and and uh and what we love and what we don't love and uh everything in between so yeah this is great yeah

01:16:52.73
Marty Ketola
ha

01:17:04.18
Clifton Campbell
Right. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Well, great. ah i Please like, let's let's get you on for spooky season. It'll be a blast.

01:17:11.26
Marty Ketola
Yeah. i don't know

01:17:12.13
Clifton Campbell
We'll have a good time talking.

01:17:12.81
Frank Dietz
i'm in all right okay

01:17:13.37
Clifton Campbell
Yeah.

01:17:13.43
Marty Ketola
Awesome.

01:17:13.77
Clifton Campbell
Awesome. Right on. All right. All right. Till next time guys. We'll see you later.

01:17:18.12
Marty Ketola
All right.