Talk Dirty To Me
Three different friends with four different perspectives on kink, fetish, and sex, talking dirty to each other. Enjoy personal journeys, stories, confessions, and guest experts on all things "dirty".
Talk Dirty To Me
BONUS EPISODE 1: Underground Sea turns SMC on with Spreadsheets
NOTE: This episode has significant audio quality issues for the first half of the podcast eventually we switch platforms and it becomes more tolerable but the information was so good we couldn't scrap it
Underground Sea takes us on the journey to his masochistic lifestyle
Todays episode covers
- The sadomasochist grid
- types of submissives
- BDSM love languages
Find Underground Sea on Fetlife
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Well, well, well, go ahead and open up your ears, your mind and whatever else you need. You're listening to Talk Dirty To Me.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome back to Talk Dirty To Me, the podcast where we're friends with four different perspectives on king fetish and sex talk dirty to one another. Today we have Stephanie Slate and the Queen of Spankos. Oh, hi there, tosan Aouf, as though the king oracle.
Speaker 1:Oh hi.
Speaker 2:Myself, casey Sammy, a your neighborhood femdom, oh hello, and the ceremony is here. She was having some technical difficulties with her computer so she's fixing it and then she's going to hop right on. So she will join us shortly, but today we're going to get started because we have a guest for you. Underground Sea has attended kink events for 20 plus years. He presents nationally to help people explain and understand each other's kink, especially submission. He serves on advisory board for DOM CON BDSM Weekend Conventions. Previously he wrote a BDSM column for FearlessPresscom, represented BDSM in college campuses and mainstream forums and chaired Austin TNG for four years. He spits time between Austin and DC. He performs with the DC Kinky Berlesque and Comedy Troop. He helped keep Austin weird by arranging fetish nights where he wrote, performed in and DJed music for fetish shows. Bdsm influences his artistic expression in the form of fetish photography, djing music, dance, writing and kinky standup comedy. Please say hello or so Happy to have you here.
Speaker 4:Hello everybody, thank you for having me here. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so happy to have you because we haven't had anybody specifically here to talk about submission on a level that I think that you can, so this is fantastic.
Speaker 4:I'm happy to represent. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So how young were you when you discovered your kink?
Speaker 4:Very young, very young. I was as far back as I can remember. My earliest memories are when I was about five. Five. I remember, yeah, I remember liking mainstream films, stories and being intrigued by them. I might not have fully understood my response at that time, I just knew I was intrigued by them and replay some scenes through my head again and again. I sometimes myself into them. To give you an example, I was intrigued by the Cinderella story. Oh really, yeah, I felt bad for her Cinderella, just like the one that I was doing. But there was a part of me that was like so her cool step-sisters and her cool step-mother beat her and prettier, more serving when you do her.
Speaker 2:Tell me more, so okay, so your kink is severe, submissive, right? Yes, that's correct. And are you also masochistic? I am Okay. What else would you classify yourself as?
Speaker 4:I think those are the two broad things where each of those terms is not so. You can go further within each, but, yes, you have to identify the both of them.
Speaker 2:So it's earliest five. And then you discovered it when you're watching mainstream media and stuff. So, after Cinderella, what was the first moment where you knew you had this within you? And then you connected it with realizing oh, this is kink. It's a thing, submission is a thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, I, so I had that interest. You know it would come out in things that would deal with what I did with my action figures, what I did in games like Captain Spy and stories I wrote. My writing teachers and English teachers probably wondered about me, like what's going?
Speaker 4:on with this game, but when I first so I had this notion that they might be others like me. But I wasn't sure. And the first realization that I had that there are others like me is when I came across this adult magazine. My elder brother about a couple of years, 10 and a half years older than me, he found some adult magazines. So you know what brothers? Hey, look what I found. You should have it with me. And one of those had this special edition on PBSF. It blew me away. It was an amazing moment. It had photos that's the first thing I saw. It had stories. It had personal ads.
Speaker 4:So I came to see there were others like me that were looking for each other and it had a glossary. So that's how I learned what the word fetish meant, I mean. Then I went yeah, yeah. So I found out about it. Now, knowing what some of these words were to look for, or that foreign has these things, I went looking for more, found more books, found more content, eventually found a way to the internet, found out that the internet had resources for things, and through that I found out about the local organizing. So that's how we Can you say that again.
Speaker 2:You found out about what.
Speaker 4:The local organized, oh gosh, Munches socials. Okay.
Speaker 2:And how old were you at that point?
Speaker 4:So timeline I first learned that there was a name for all this, that realization I had through that magazine. I was about 11. 11, okay, and so gradually through middle school.
Speaker 4:Through high school I learned more about it, but finding something new there coming to college gave me I actually back up. One of the big discoveries of realization was doing high school and I came across this book called Men in Love by Nancy Friede. It is a compilation of sexual tendencies by men with some academic commentary, and so that expanded my awareness of things in my interest. That's how I learned what the word said, or massacred, in that. Okay, I first encountered that term through that book and then, by the time I got to college, I knew that there were magazines dedicated specifically to kick. Now you go to an age record, who will store if they're starting to you get some publication? I just told them that I found my way through the internet. Okay, yeah, and so that's the time.
Speaker 2:Amazing. And so are you LGBTQ or are you straight? I?
Speaker 4:identify as straight. Okay, maybe an aspect, so I don't think that, but I'm not driven to your conventional sexuality. I told you that I used to seek out porn, not for content that seemed porn, but to be able to find bits of it as a, and I perfectly happy doing kink that doesn't include sex. That can feel complete, Amazing.
Speaker 2:So another person that practices kink and it doesn't involve sex. Yeah, I love it. Same here too. Real quick, everybody our favorite, sarah Marie, has joined us. Yay, she forgot her microphone.
Speaker 1:It's me, hi. There she is, hello Hi.
Speaker 2:She will be joining the conversation now. What?
Speaker 4:am I.
Speaker 2:This is just all of the good stuff. Obviously we're talking to the C as I understand it. Can I call you?
Speaker 4:the C?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm the C For short. That's longer. So C do you live at 24, seven or just when it's convenient?
Speaker 4:I live it constantly in the sense that it's a part of my identity. Most of my social activity centers around kink. We're in two events, okay Social events, nature, things like that, or other social activities with people I know in the community. So it's a constant time identity. That way I often I engage in actual activities like play sessions and stuff. I would say that's not necessarily constant, but my style of playing is also a bit different. What is your style of playing? It's more along the lines of just the energy and the good which you might say falls under the mental realm of things. You go to the party, you'll see people in flying and things like that, and I can also have a scene, a place scene and feel entirely, completely without any hands on it. Okay, so it's more just that than DS5. That is what the claims. There you go so you can have that through just even a short extended course of the day, just exchanging techniques with somebody who carried out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so do you have go on Tessie.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to know, since you say that it's like part of your full identity, do you have, like life responsibilities that require you to be more dominant, like, do you run a team or anything like that? And if you do like, how does that work out for you?
Speaker 4:So I have leadership roles in different scenarios professionally, school, academically or just in terms of even some roles that are played in the community. I think personality and role preference are two things that some may align or may not become entirely independent. So you'll find people who have super dominant personalities, who identify submissive, and you'll find people who have perhaps even timid or very you know I've used that word timid you know timid personalities are what they get out of them, it's dominance. And then you know you can have it a way around. You can have people with kind of personalities who get out from submission and vice versa.
Speaker 4:So I'd say personality guys, I'm kind of in the middle. You know I don't need to be in charge, but I don't look to be submissive in every day scenario either. So, for instance, if somebody at work or in some other context is being overbearing in an uninvited way, I resent that and you know, depending on the situation, whether it's something small or that is fine, whether I step up, step at least in or not, just depends on the situation.
Speaker 2:Okay, and do you have? Do you have a dom? I currently have play partners Play partners Are you?
Speaker 1:looking for one like long term, what's if you I don't know, I was about to say like build a dom, like build a bear, but that would be ridiculous. But like, if you you're saying play partners, which sounds like you haven't found the right connection or partnership, what would you say is what you're looking for? And like full term, full time dom.
Speaker 4:Well, to draw an analogy, I'll answer that question as well and also this elaborate a bit. To draw an analogy with just data, might come across somebody who's had some relationships but at the current point in time they're dating a few people. So it's kind of like that Times in the past where I said I had a dom because I had a relationship with somebody. In that way, currently I am, I have play partners, and that's also a fun place to be. But in terms of a long term partner, I can talk about what I might want in a companionship, and then you know so. So I've got you can say I've got two separate drives that overlap and one of the one of those drives is for companionship and one is for submission. And I can imagine different ways of that happening, and one scenario is even to have a romantic companionship for the most submissive and then perhaps even collectively submit to the same dom.
Speaker 2:That sounds like fun.
Speaker 4:That's interesting, yeah, yeah, I've also had romantic BS relationships where I was so romantic to partner with somebody and the BS was how we came to know each other and it was part of our relationship. And then I've also had relationships that were just strictly BS relationships. You know, we weren't that romantic partners or anything and there was something to be said about each of those scenarios. So my perfect scenario is I think it would be different more by just the chemistry with the person versus the scenario, and but I think companionship is important. I think I could have the reason I was able to have those BS relationships that didn't have a companionship or romantic continuity because they were not exclusive, and yet it had that elsewhere. I don't think I'd be able to join the BS relationship that was one term that excluded companionship in that was also exclusive.
Speaker 2:And so do you have, do you operate the protocols during the day?
Speaker 4:So that can depend whether I'm interactive. So, yes, so in the course of time there are different protocols I have, perhaps with my gaming partner. There's some protocols I'm using in general with each person. You know whether we're a down sub-pair or whether we just play partners Protocols are. I do generally take some type of a differential tone towards my play partners because BS is my jam and you know.
Speaker 4:Examples of protocols might be that my down partner is welcome to call me or text me at any hour, but I myself do all these text first to make sure if they're. If I need to call out text first, sure you know you get permission for a security in time to call and I'll try to unless you know it was something extraordinary try to limit that contact within flight hours. And so you've got some example of a protocol I'd observe. You know other things like if you're sitting down to eat out, wait till they start first. So those are just some general things I do and sometimes I have. You know there's that word specific to be partnered, so it brings inside one side of partner who has a no shoe policy inside her home and she wanted me to help her with her shoes.
Speaker 4:We'll bring that to you in a little bit more protocol. We got that specific to the particular situation.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite protocol, like what things really scratch your itch?
Speaker 1:Also, what's your least favorite protocol too, because that was what asked the opposite one.
Speaker 4:I don't know if I have a favorite protocol, and I do often hear me say this, because often I sort of think when I'll say, well, these are some that there's this and here's this and there's this. So the two that I mentioned are the ones that I commonly use, but I guess they are meaningful to me, that I commonly use and everybody. I suppose there are two reasons I can use them. One they are meaningful to me, and I suppose they also have. They are okay to use across people and people. It's not so much that I'm imposing something on that versus just practicing some type of gesture that shows depth, so maybe that's also something that helps them be my, so my go-to protocols. In terms of protocols that I don't hear for so much, I don't have one that immediately jumps to mine. I suppose I do have one that comes to my mind. So once I had this temporary protocol where I would go see somebody for a weekend at a time, and then, because once I got a message or a phone call that was distracting, I received a protocol which was that I wasn't to use my phone during the course of the weekend. Oh yeah, and that was. You know, if there was a life outside of pink, I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 4:But there is life outside of pink and when I talk about my boundaries, that's one thing I talk about in general. You know things that have an adverse effect and I remember one of those scenarios. I missed several calls from my brother and afterwards, you know, I was sort of a little distressed by that. I didn't know what was going on, whether there was emergency situation, and that felt like, you know, I felt that protocol wasn't necessary. You know it could have a serious consequence in some situations. So is that a boundary? Now it is. So I did yes, I state that as a general boundary and I now point to that as a specific example. So, yeah, this and that protocols. You know I suppose I'd like to retain some of my freedom about the rest of life, and that includes, you know, whatever contents I have for work or other relationships and family. So I think I need to find a balance between the two protocols that don't allow that balance.
Speaker 2:So see, when we spoke on the phone you started talking about all the different kinds of submission. Can you, can you give us a rundown, because that was fascinating to me and I did not realize there were so many categories.
Speaker 4:Sure. So earlier in this conversation you asked to identify as a submissive or a masochist, and there was a pause for this reason. So I'll start with masochism. So I think that there are six different types of masochism, three different types, with two subcategories for each. And so the different types of masochism are the first is physical masochism, which is where somebody gets joy From physical discomfort.
Speaker 4:So different types of situations we associate with physical pain, whether it's impact or pinching, whether it's temperature, whether it's sting. You know whether it's something's long to align, it's hair pulling, having your hair put out with a tweedle, oh God, whether it's chemicals. So that's chemicals, chemicals. But chemical I mean, like you know, like, like, like, or, or, or you know, or, yeah, serrano Peptides. So, if you can, yeah, people probably try. Okay. So I'll submit my chemical play. But all of these, the common thread across all these different activities is some type of physical sensation that we usually call painful, that we usually say people want to avoid. But masochism transforms that pain into something positive. It can be that they are just wired, that pain directly leads to a rousing, or it can be that it creates just this headspace, almost like a chemical flight, so like, for instance, people will get flogged. They're getting with something. They might start to release chemicals inside the body that creates this buzz almost like a runner's heart. So you know that can get a gratification. You know the gratification, just feeling some kind of a connection.
Speaker 4:If you talk about the different reasons why people don't do masochism, there's not just one answer, there's several, and for each person one or more might apply. But for all these examples the comment is that there is some type of a physical sensation that is resulting in pleasure. That's physical masochism. Emotional masochism is the emotional counterpart of that. So just looking at physical masochism, we have something that we consider a cause of physical pain. In emotional masochism we have something we consider to cause an unwanted emotion. That unwanted emotion could be fear, it could be hurt, it could be boredom, all those things. It could be frustration. So the good example I knew on the top who had a bottom would like to make these elaborate jigsaw puzzles and the top would at some time go and break up the puzzle.
Speaker 1:Oh, the crimes that have been committed.
Speaker 2:That could be an example. That could be illegal.
Speaker 4:So you thought they were emotional. Some of you know they did this, they talked about it, it was okay in their dynamic. Some of the pair that might be, like you know, a boundary, some of the dynamic that might be to a fight.
Speaker 1:I'm so amused by the fact that the four of us have talked about Serrano peppers on balls getting spanked very ever for over 28 episodes, and we are all the most appalled at puzzles being ruined.
Speaker 2:All okay.
Speaker 1:If you break my puzzle.
Speaker 2:I will break your hand. I think that there should also be a category of submission called your husband does puzzles much faster than you and it causes you anxiety. Yes, or gets up before the daybreak because he must finish it and write down stairs, and it's almost done and you're like what? And you just you just submit, you just submit, you're like yes, I didn't know puzzles were such a hot topic. What the fuck is happening? Puzzles are a very hot topic.
Speaker 1:My partner does puzzles so fast, I don't even participate.
Speaker 2:I'm like look, I'm looking.
Speaker 1:I'm looking for edge pieces and she's done with a thousand piece puzzle.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay, I'll go to bed, that's. That's a different kind of edging. Can you know what I mean? You missed me. I did, I did, I did yes.
Speaker 4:Tie back this bit of conversation one more time before Serrano peppers and balls Chemical play. Are you able to talk about vendors? Make products. Is it okay to talk about that? Yeah, sure, okay, so I think, if I remember the name correctly. So I just went to a convention, convention called Dom Con LA, and the vendor there I think the name was ironic and it must they basically take fetish photos, fetish art, make a big self puzzle out of it. Oh, cool, wow, if you like puzzles.
Speaker 2:Look for it in the show notes everybody.
Speaker 4:So we were talking about, yeah, emotional lessons. So that's emotional. Let's say you're a player, inversion, embarrassment, all that quality Emotional lessons, and the reasons for why are the same as physical lessons, at least the mirror. Then you know it's a response to the body. You know, maybe somebody likes how their body respond to their heart is beating fast and they can feel that coming to their face. Or, you know, maybe it's being perhaps a little bit connected, perhaps that that state directly leads to arousal. And so all the reasons that apply to physical masochism. If you can understand that, if you can make that leap, you have what you need to understand emotionally. All we know is that there's something that people do only want to avoid physical pain, some people that brings joy. All we know is that there's something that people want to avoid embarrassment, and the only reason fear is that they want emotions. But under the context of emotional SM, under the context of emotional masochism, they bring somebody joy. So that physical masochism, we got emotional masochism.
Speaker 4:And there's one other type, which I call status masochism. So that's about somebody that gets joy from a reduced or lesser status. Is that total power exchange? I think total power exchange comes from that. Okay, so you have intensities with anything from a body flodder to single fields for physical SM. You have intensities in status masochism. So getting joy from addressing somebody with an honorific is an example of status masochism. Okay, the news as a footstep is an example of status masochism. There are some people who want to be treated as less than human. That's an example of status masochism. So we've got these three different types physical masochism, emotional masochism, status masochism.
Speaker 2:I think it's fascinating to me that the words status and masochism are used together, because I always in my head thought masochism related entirely to physical pain. But you're saying now, all of these are masochism and it's any sort of like. I don't use it as negative, but what people would normally quantify as a negative or unwanted feeling in any of those areas qualifies it as masochism. Well, I'm not fully convinced. You don't have a certain level of masochism with how long you put up with your broken rib and your fissure case? But I also think it's really interesting to think about the three different categories of themselves right, physical, emotional and status. Because, yeah, there is. It's not necessarily that status is cold. But when I think of emotional manipulation or emotional masochism right, it generally revolves around like tears or anger or shame or whatever, versus status would be like our living doll that we talked to that just wanted to be treated as a doll, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was as a non-corporeal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very. I love categories because I'm a straight up Virgo, so thank you See. All right, I'm sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 4:Oh no, no, so I'll actually learn a bit more Okay About the difference between status masochism and emotional masochism. So in everyday life it might be hard to differentiate between the two, because the two are related. When I say the two are related, what I mean is that if you use somebody as a footstool in everyday life, they might feel both lowered as well as they might feel emotional distress. They might feel embarrassment and humiliation. But the point I want to emphasize is that those two responses can be separate. They keep masochism. You can have somebody who's used as a footstool and they don't feel any emotional distress. They might feel calm, they might feel zen, they might feel good, meditative, they might feel joy, no emotional distress at all. That's why I think it's necessary to differentiate between emotional masochism and status masochism. Just as some people get joy from uncomfortable emotions, something we consider to be unwanted in everyday life, some people get joy from a reduced status, something we really consider unwanted in everyday life.
Speaker 2:See, I'm going to need this in a spreadsheet of some kind so we can excel or like do you follow that thread on Reddit? Data is beautiful, because I'm going to need to see this in a beautiful data. I think it gets so much deeper. I think if one of us here followed, the data is beautiful. That is a you saying SMC, and I love you for it. I've never even heard of that. I'll send it to you. It's super sexy.
Speaker 1:Send it to.
Speaker 2:Luke, he would appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I love that subreddit. I'm not on it, but I've seen plenty of posts on it in the developer realms. It is glorious.
Speaker 2:I think the word is called chaos is clear. That's great.
Speaker 1:I love that I now have verbiage for this, because I've always tried to describe like, because I'm a switch, but my masochism very rarely leans towards like. It's not so much that I have a positive physical response to pain I have a high pain tolerance and I am like it's fine that it's happening. But it's not like, yay, someone hurt me, I'm happy. And then even like like I enjoy being degraded and humiliated. But when it happens to me, it's I'm not having a distress response to it because specifically when it occurs, specifically when it occurs to people I know care about me, so I don't like.
Speaker 1:It's not like if you're telling me that I have a small dick and I'm not worth it, like my system doesn't go. Oh no, you mean it and I'm, but I the part that is, that I do enjoy is the status masochism, and you said it perfectly. Like when I'm being used as a footstool, I am calm, that is the reaction that I have. It's just like the lowering of status makes it so that my brain doesn't have to deal with the responsibilities of being human and for just those moment in time, like my brain doesn't have to do anything but lay there and I'm just like great, great, perfect. That is exactly what I'm looking for at the time, and so I've never had a term to differentiate it because I'm the other way, on the dominant side. Like I like all three right, so like, if I'm delivering them, I enjoy performing all three of those two people, or putting people through either physical, emotional or status distress.
Speaker 4:So you bring up different parts that I readily agree with and relate with. So one yes, I also identify with status masochism. I also, in those situations I'm not feeling any discomfort, rather just calmness and joy. This is right when I said you know, like thinking of somebody, the type of satisfaction you get just by expressing the love towards them. You know some, some type of gesture and that's how it's satisfying. You know it's the combination of feelings and that's how I like it. It just feels satisfied to feel the right, it feels good. So those are the three types of masochism and ceramorings.
Speaker 4:So you go back to your point about spreadsheets. I don't know the spreadsheet, but when I do this class in person or even we'll resume, where I have a whiteboard available to me, I do draw out a grid and that grid is what makes these three types into six, so I'll visually describe it. So if you imagine these three types being columns, now we're going to add a row for each of those columns. One of those rows is going to be M centric or masochist centric, and one of those rows is going to be S centric or satist centric. So we have M centric, physical masochism, m centric, emotional masochism, s centric physical masochism, s centric emotional masochism, and so so if we do it for all three, of course we got six Sexy. What do I mean by that? What do I mean by M centric physical masochism and M centric or S centric physical masochism?
Speaker 4:The best way for me to explain the difference is if you imagine somebody who likes to get flawed and the reason why they like it is because they like the chemical flight it creates, it makes it float, or perhaps the sensation itself directly translates to arousal. You know, several of the reasons we mentioned are called masochism. The reason for that joy, that satisfaction, that motivation lies within the masochist. That's what I'm calling M centric masochist. Now, there's some masochists who like to get flawed, but it's not that the sensation is directly translating to pleasure, it's that they're getting off of the idea that the sadist wants to do this. They're purving not on the sensation but on the sadist's cruelty or sadism or desire to invoke that. And when I bring up this point some people ask. So it's about taking pain to please somebody. And now, it's different than that.
Speaker 4:You can imagine somebody who doesn't have any interest in kink and you can imagine that they know that their partner is into flogging somebody and they can say, hey, I know this really does it for you. I'm GGG, you know I'm not to dance, I was there. Go ahead and be and flog me, and that's somebody who's taking pain, just as a service, and that's centric masochist actually gets off on the idea they are getting the route that what's happening? They could watch somebody, statistic somebody else and still get off of that because they are grung to that person's sadism. So you know, this is another context of where you know it's not that every person will necessarily do that for them. It's when they're being some type of drug towards somebody and then you know they have these sadistic approaches that's going to amplify their anger or say the symptom, masochism is going to kick in. So that's what I mean by sadistic response, where the response is not centered around what is happening inside the masochist, but what's happening inside the sadist. It's sort of like a focus on oh gosh, this person is wanting to do this. Oh, that is so awesome. So that's the sadistic center of response.
Speaker 4:Now, these are not too exclusive.
Speaker 4:When I drop this grid, I joke around about oh, I'm going to get with somebody with a psychology background and we're going to come up with some kind of a test like a Myers and Griggs test, and you take that test and get your masochism profile.
Speaker 4:So you can imagine these numbers from zero to 10 in each of those six boxes and that's that overall defines the profile of the masochist Interesting. Come across somebody who likes to get flogged and all, but doesn't really want to get humiliated and doesn't want to, like you know, address somebody down or if it's a considerate defeat or anything like that. That's somebody who has a strong response to physical masochism and a weak response to the other two. And you'll come across people who'll say, hey, I don't want to get tortured or humiliated, I just want to please and obey. That's somebody who has a strong response for status masochism and weak response for the others. And you get somebody like a model. So that's what I mean. They're not mutually exclusive. You can think of a number from zero to 10 in each of those boxes to find how meaningful something is to get a masochist.
Speaker 2:Which is just like a sexy way to like find out how much better you can communicate your needs and find out if your needs match your other play partners needs is what it sounds like.
Speaker 4:Exactly the goal behind all these models to know this communication is one for somebody to articulate their language and that helps for somebody to try to understand somebody else's wiring. That helps people. One gauge if they're compatible, and then two if they are compatible, it helps them understand what's so close, so which like the console which just brings me back to the oh.
Speaker 2:So sorry. See you were breaking up.
Speaker 4:Say again, okay so I'll quickly jump in and just finish that thought. I kind of liken it to the concept of the love languages, which is, you know the different ways somebody can express love, but knowing what your partner needs helps you understand what you need to make them feel love. So, same type of understanding. So please see, we're going to ask a question. Oh, was I? I forgot already.
Speaker 2:But I just reminds me that, like we talk about this and we've mentioned this a couple of times, but one of the beautiful things about the the kink community, one of the many beautiful things is how, on the forefront of direct, open communication and consent, the kink community is right. Like just being able to learn how to clearly articulate your needs and receive those needs is such a like, such a beautiful practice that I wish those those regular ding dongs out there Got like like this community gets. You know those regular ding dongs, you know the regular ding dongs, yeah the regular.
Speaker 2:The ding dong and around with their tacos and their hot dogs, toes and to juice. Make this quickly.
Speaker 1:Yes, see, are you still with us, or didn't just turn your video off? Or being with I?
Speaker 4:Am, I am here, can you hear me great we can hear you here, we can hear you in a way, it's a, it's fine.
Speaker 1:It's fine. It's a thing of Riverside to like save bandwidth if that's occurring, so no deal.
Speaker 2:This further makes me feel like I don't fit into the BDSM community. Like and not that I, not that I'm like meeting that are like, oh, poor me. I just mean like even the idea of masochism, like I don't there wasn't anything that really truly registered for me in that, only that as a spankle file. I know I like pain, but I don't get off to the idea of the other person being dominant. I just like the pain.
Speaker 1:But you definitely, you definitely space to I would totally say and you're all three types of masochism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was about to say you're wrong about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you were, if you were purely physical, then it wouldn't matter that the like, it wouldn't matter the configuration, because you like the discipline part of it. You like specifically being in like Corporal punishment I'm making the, I'm making the rules. You did something wrong, yeah, and then this status, masochism part of it, because if that, if that didn't matter, then like somebody who Was like I don't know if you didn't hear about the status man I'm, so he was like is that, are we doing it? You've done something wrong. Here's your punishment.
Speaker 2:It's just more like if I have like, like there's people even in the same community that like tasks and like Writing lines and saying yes, sir, and like responding to a text immediately, like for me personally, that's incredible for other people. For me personally, not in a million years, not in a million years, which is why I don't think I could be in a relationship with somebody who was in this world because, like, I gotta shut that off for me personally. But it is interesting because it's almost like it feels like the BDSM world Is it is just out of my reach, but maybe not with what you guys are saying. I feel like you might have a kink called Stephanie likes for things to be just out of her reach. Good, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, because I think spanko files are a category of kink in BDSM and you keep trying to be like I'm not into?
Speaker 2:I'm not no it's just like there's so much commitment I hear, like when I, when I hear, see there's such a commitment to this life and a commitment to like the regimen behind Submitting to somebody that I really do admire, that I don't Possess, and so it does make me feel like less than, or not less than not, like, feel sorry for me, less than just like. Am I like a Shitty version of the kink world, like, am I just like a take-take-take and I don't give what I'm supposed to give? Or is there just a different type of kink person out there who just this is what I like, it's for this, it's between this hour and this hour, and then I'm out and I'm not in that headspace anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the majority of people doing Like because you're you're describing someone who's either so at living it, living at 24 7, right, they Can't. They all they are always under a protocol that they have to do, whether they are in presence or not, or total power exchange, which means they, someone else, has complete control over your life. Or you're in a high protocol relationship, which is like there's a giant list of very specific, very detailed Spreadsheet, it out contracted rules that you have to follow, and that's extreme. Most, most people don't get there. When I have two people that I know, that that have desires to be in TPE relationships but like to locate the person who can do that well and for them and like they can still live the life that they want to live like they haven't found. So you're, you're in the, you're in the middle of that. I would say you're above average with back. You have really high pain tolerance. You have very specific scenes that you enjoy. Your power play is really well, well-defined, that you, that you want to have like yeah.
Speaker 3:You're totally in.
Speaker 2:BDSM. I want to be, I want to be. I just feel like I I feel less than because there are, there are things that on that list that he that see, you were saying that I Can't relate to, but obviously, done like that, you're not gonna relate to everything, it's just I've yet to just Hear my thing, just unless you're toasting, and then you're a very, very special kind of individual, which that's like trying to achieve God status and I'm like I'll never be there, only stop, only spanko. Hmm, hey, hello friends. So sorry, we had some technical difficulties. So if you are wondering why there's a sudden on sequitur and an unfinished sense, it's because everything broke, it all broke. Can we call them testicle difficulties from now on, though? Yeah, we were having testicle difficulties, everything. Okay, see, so you, we interrupted you while you were still talking about categories. I want to get back to that. Yes, the.
Speaker 4:The last bit was where I was talking about the science of BDSM. Okay, group of academic researchers out of an University of Illinois, the science of BDSM. They're doing all kinds of research. One of the things that they discussed in one of their studies was that they asked a bunch of people hey, are you to BDSM? They said no. Then they listed a bunch of activities, say do you like this? And bunch of them checked off activities that Are considered part of BDSM.
Speaker 4:So there is this disconnect and you know it's interesting thing about what are the reasons. But I'll add back what we're talking about. There is a BDSM community and there is a spanking community. They're two separate communities. I think there's overlap in them. I think they're similar to what they like, but the cultures and also some of the preferences are different between them and Everybody gets to create BDSM the way they want to and participate in it to the extent they want to. So if somebody feels like you know they can't do this round the clock and everything, yeah, that doesn't make you know, a lot of people in the BDSM community don't do it around the clock, so just want to make that point so it doesn't hold anybody back. They think, hey, I have to renew this level to be part of the BDSM. No, you get to pick.
Speaker 4:Thank you All right. So the categories. So we talked about the different types of of masochism. So that's one key concept. First, just to clear that point. You know, this is these are terms, these are models that I like to geek out about Through that way, this is not your reviewed material.
Speaker 4:This is not you, but the only people who've been to my classes or I've done conversation or had conversations with me Know about these terms. So if you are somewhere else and you start to talk about hey, so I mean, just that is masochism. I'm just asking me my dad, no, what you're talking about people in me like excuse me.
Speaker 4:So.
Speaker 4:So that's one key concept the different types of masochism. Another key concept is that we take status masochism. We dive deeper into that. That is masochism without having you know Some type of a difference in stats. So that leads to a concept called DS languages, which I liken to love, love, love languages, love languages. The idea is that there are different ways to express love and all of them seem like this should be a way that should make somebody feel loved, but in practice, some of those are meaningful than others. So to describe that concept for those who might not have heard of it, the five love languages.
Speaker 4:The author's name is Gary Chapman. It's a book. He has a website. You can Google it, you can take a little quiz. I will tell you what love languages are. A five love languages. He proposes our verbal affirmation telling somebody I love you. Physical affirmation hugs, cuddling, access service, spending quality time together. It helps to know what your love languages are and what your partner's love languages are, because that's receiving something that aligns with some of love languages, what makes them feel loved.
Speaker 4:Similarly, I believe in the concept of DS languages and Activity that aligns with your concept of DS makes you feel dominant or submissive, whichever role you prefer, and so I Break up the DS language into three broad categories. One of them is about Observing DS through hierarchy, through showing hierarchy, through displaying hierarchy. So the best example would be if you imagine a queen with a serpent, what might you deserve? That might lead you to conclude, let's say you're watching a film, or you're watching, you know You're a third party witnessing their interactions what might lead you to observe who is in a more dominant position there? It would be the way they speak to each other that will show a hierarchy. It would be the way, perhaps, how they're seated that will show a hierarchy. So the different things that show a hierarchy. That's one key way that people express DS and other DS languages Force dominance or primal dominance, so dominance by way of root-verse.
Speaker 4:So you know the type of dominance you might see from a bully I don't use that term, I guess you to describe a style of dominance. It's where you know you were causing pain. Study is Dominus hey, I can do this to you where you're perhaps stepping on somebody's dignity, you're doing something that might be humiliating to again show hey, I'm doing this to you. So you know the type of dominance you might see in a prison, you know hair pulling, pinning somebody on the ground, all those you know that's. That's that type of dominance, that's this, that, that category, that DS language.
Speaker 4:And then the third type is like authority, or fiduciary based dominance, or managerial dominance, for the different terms of sometimes used, the, the type of dominance you might see in a workplace. By that I mean you know, like who makes decisions, who controls the resources, who's Running the show, things like that. So these are three different ways that people Can express to receive dominance. And, just like love languages were given person, some might matter more than others.
Speaker 4:So, for example, there are people who wants to play with authority.
Speaker 4:They want one person to make all the rules and you know direct the day-to-day life and so on. You know they're not big on using titles or anything like that, or they might not be big into you know the brute force down, as I described. So that's somebody for whom the authority based dominance is a key DS language and the other two not so much. And you've got the other way around also. So, for instance, micromanaging falls under his one example of authority based dominance. You've got some people who relate strongly with the hierarchy based DS language and not so much with the authority based. So that goes back with the discussion we're having before. The idea of this model in these terms is for people to understand and their partners wiring, for somebody to be able to articulate their wiring and it helps gauge Compatibility and it helps you see what fulfills your partner, just like how annoying your partners love language. Language Enables you to know what can make them feel loved. Knowing your partners DS language enables you to know what can make them feel dominant or submissive.
Speaker 1:So it's one of the most valuable two minutes of my entire life.
Speaker 4:I wasn't just too gosh. I thought I went home for 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:No it was potent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that that is great for my brain to think about because, like I know, it's glad that I'm able to like have ways of discussing that, because I've struggled with like a couple of DS relationships in where I'm on the dominant side, because I have a discrepancy, so like I feel most comfortable in I think you were saying the authority Dominant stance.
Speaker 1:But it's hard for me to like sit myself in an authority dominant stance With someone who isn't clear about what is fine for me to rule and not rule over, like if I have to, if I have to be figuring that out, I have a hard time, you know, communing with the beast and so because I don't like to let the beast out of the cage unless I'm able to like firmly put his boundaries in place and then I'm Like better able to do it. So it's very nice to have like this categories because I think I think now I have the language that's me like, oh, you work in a hierarchy DS style is your, your landing place. I'm more comfortable in authority DS style. Now we know how to talk about the bridge to get through and like at where to find the middle ground.
Speaker 4:So this is thoroughly valuable Reference second key concept different types of masochism. If you dive deeper within, status masochism and language as a DS. So I'll pause here up.
Speaker 2:Somebody had no, I'm sorry, it was. It was me. Ignore me. Nothing else going to see was important. I'd rather hear you.
Speaker 4:Oh, we cannot ignore you?
Speaker 2:No, yeah I.
Speaker 3:Was just reiterating how valuable it was, yeah you were too kind, thank you.
Speaker 4:So one other concept that I'll talk about is what I call the I need centers of submissives, and before I start to talk about them, I'll make a point that everything I've talked about so far, while I've been directing Then at s types s types is a term I use to describe people who fall on the right side of the slash. So sedis, masochist masochists dominant, submissive submissives top, bottom, bottoms, so S-types is an umbrella term that's usually used to describe people on the right slash. So everything I've talked about seems to have been directed at S-types, different types of masochism. The DS language is now about to talk about the five need-centric submissives, but really everything I'm talking about applies to tops also. So I talked about sedis-centric physical masochism. In our tops they would have masochist-centric physical sedisms. S-types is centric physical sedism. So everything I've talked about has a mirror image for tops. All right.
Speaker 4:So the next concept that I want to talk about is the five need centers of submissives. So the first four are commonly humans. So the first one I call the primary needs center. This is the one that's concerned with things like maintaining your health, your general well-being, keeping a job, keeping a roof over your head those primary needs. Then the next one is esteem-related needs. That's the part of you that creates need to want to be respected, to not be looked down upon, to not be cut off as less than everyday life. When you feel, you know, because you got bad customer service, that's your esteem-related need center. That's saying, hey, I need to feel respected, blah, blah. Then the next one is the social need center. That's a need center that wants to give and receive affection from social bonds, have companions, things like that. And there's a spiritual need center that spans so many different things. One way of spiritual hard can happen is by connecting with the universe. Outside of yourself it can happen going deeper within yourself, like, for example, through meditation. It can be devoting yourself to a cause thought to be greater than you. And all those different things can be done through kick. That cause could be your partner or the relationship Devoting yourself to somebody. You're connecting with somebody, you know.
Speaker 4:I think that when you talk about the joy that people feel in kink, my personal opinion is a lot of times it's happening along spiritual lines, like two people just feel this connection. So those are four need centers. Then the fifth one is what I call the masochism need center and that is a sum of everything we've talked about before. So you take the masochism profile and then the DS languages that are part of the masochism profile, all that lumped together into masochistic need center or your kink needs. Now all these need centers come together to create the submissive. So, as some analogies I'll use, I'll say each of these need centers is being a strand. So you've got these five strands of string bound together to make a row and the submissive is a row. So all these need centers are there, they're part of the submissive.
Speaker 4:Another example of it is that if you imagine all of these being Olympic judges and you put an activity or a relationship or a scene before these judges and they are going to raise scorecards to tell you how to feel about this and the higher the score, the better you feel about it. So, and any one of these, you can give a score from one to 10 or you can give a score of minus 50. And the point is, you know, any one of these judges can cancel out something, they can veto something. You know everybody else says I like this, I like this, I like this 10, 10, 10, 10, 10. One of them can say minus 50. Sorry, nothing there. So the idea. You know.
Speaker 4:Why is this model useful? I think it helps see different things, one that submissive has different needs that interact simultaneously, to collectively define their needs, their happiness, their distance and all of these matters. Sometimes it's easy to focus on just the masochistic needs, but the other needs are also there, you know. A good example to give there is that if you talk about the desire to please, is that essential to submission? If you ask the question, you'll see answers on both sides. Some will say yes, it is. Some will say no, it's not, but in the boat, kind of right. I couldn't be right when we're saying opposite things. So let me give you a situation Unless.
Speaker 4:Imagine somebody's being interrogated and most people would associate that as something some submissive might enjoy or might fantasize about, or say S types might enjoy or fantasize about. You know, if you go around a room and take a sermon, you have several S people say, well, yes, that's hot, I'd want to do that. But you know, in that scenario you don't have to have the S type wanting to please that person. You know they're not going to say, hey, you've been slapping me around here, can I give you a hand massage, can I go get you some water? You know they're not going to get that round.
Speaker 4:So here's an example of somebody being in a submissive situation with a desire to please isn't there. So I use that to make the point that desire to please isn't essential to submission. When you throw some masochistic component alone, I think the desire to please comes from the social component to express love, and so a submissive is both of those components present together. So submissive does have a desire to please because their social component, in partnership with the masochistic component, goes beyond what other people might do to please somebody. So why does this matter if that desire to please comes from the social component? So what does a social component need? It wants to give love, but it also likes to receive love. So if you go talk to submissives and say, have you ever felt like the top didn't care about you? How did that affect your submission? And they'll probably say, well, it took something away or maybe it killed it completely.
Speaker 4:So this model is important to understand these different needs that come collectively and they all matter and one of them is not getting met. That's going to create discontent and it's not necessary to meet all those needs through the same program. Those needs can be met through different people. So, for example, there are people who have their romantic needs met through one partner and their masochistic needs met through another partner. There's still some amount of social bonding, but the degree or the intensity they don't have to have all their social needs met through one person, one partner. Those are some of the key points about this model. It is to remember the different needs and that they affect the joy that somebody feels.
Speaker 4:When we were talking about feeling calm or being a footstool, I think that the spiritual component is also a part of that. So if we're going back to the scorecard, I bet you in that activity, the masochistic component and the spiritual component are like raising up tents and maybe even a social component. So that's what I mean when we do BDSM. We interact at different levels. We are simultaneously interacting across SM cross social like, it's intimate. We're sending good will or love towards each other through those activities, to whichever degree, and perhaps connecting spiritually. That I mean just a connection that focuses on each other, that being present for each other. So that's what creates the joy in BDSM these different things happening together, these different types of connection happening together. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially I'm glad you brought up the spiritual need center, because one of the reasons why I enjoy degradation from both sides is the thing for me is the connection, like the biggest part of it for me is like the trust the two people have, who do really care about each other, willing to go to this like humiliating, degrading place.
Speaker 1:So you're getting all of the like masochistic or sadist things out that you want by getting like a perform being terrible to a person or a person being terrible to you, and then you, in order to do that safely and feel comfortable doing with the person and like walk in that realm of like what it would feel like to do. That takes a deep level of trust and, like you know, and also like a deep level of intimacy between like it's all the times that I've done degradation scenes they have been like so highly present, like most most of the time it's like it's very easy to like lock into each other and like let the world fade away to do this. Well, so, and I think like it's all, and I'm I resonate with that because of how much it interacts with the, you know, spiritual component that you were talking about- Also, I think there's a lot of people in the king world that would be excellent actors, because I feel like that's so much.
Speaker 2:Part of acting is like finding a partner that you're going to commit to this story that you're going to tell, and the world outside of you fades away. So you don't have this. You know this worry of product and presentation and whatnot, and there's a genuineness that kind of falls into it of just you know, I wouldn't want anyone really looking at this, but this, you know this feels real in this moment and so I really appreciate that too.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you for telling me about. You know how that resonated with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When do you like? How often do you teach this class, and to whom do you generally teach it? Is this something you offer occasionally or just to kink groups, or do you have a do teach workshops yourself, just randomly and advertise them?
Speaker 4:It varies usually I have always so far done workshops with somebody, either an organization or a convention, something like that. So it varies. So I have separate classes, different classes. So the very first class I did was, you know, understanding service submissives. And then next the class was, you know, it was called de-misdepriving emulation, oh cool. And then the next one was the DS languages class, and then the. Then, you know, eventually the need centers class came and from that that spun into the types of masochism and so on. So it's actually four different classes. And then there's one which binds all these concepts, doesn't go into full depth, just gives it overview all of them, to create this, you know, comprehensive picture. I call that your PhD in understanding submissives. And so how often do I do that? Just it varies with half an attend convention. There are some of the protest me about it and I'm available in this and that.
Speaker 2:So Do you ever teach them in Austin or DC? Just like offer them and see who shows up?
Speaker 4:I haven't done them, like on my own, like you know where they are, they are in both places. There are groups that are focused in education. They are regularly scheduling classes so I've usually done them with that because they had a physical space or a platform and I've just gone with that. I've occasionally reached out to, I do you know, I appreciate in education and I also sometimes like to champion kink.
Speaker 2:Do you notice a difference in? So it's Washington DC in. Here you spend time between? Yes, I mean, is DC kink here? I just feel like with all those politicians it's got to be.
Speaker 4:You know what it is. Kink here in the sense that I think it's got to more it's seen, is bigger and has it's ahead of the curve, and I say that not just with respect to Austin, but I think it's you know, it's got the best scene in the kink scene in the country.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's tough to say no DC, no DC. Oh, that makes me, that makes no sense.
Speaker 4:So Austin also, if you have for a city its size, it also has a terrific scene. You know, right now it's going through a state where we don't have a play space so there's not a lot to do on the weekends. But there was a time when Austin thing happening every night of the month, either a social or a party, and it still has a good much of stuff happening. And you know it's also, over the years, diversified and you have individuals you can credit for that. You know there's a group for people who are into age play, there's a group for people who are into pet play. What makes DC, I think, what it is, is so you know it's just it's fun to think about how the politicians affected I'm not sure how much effect they have, they probably will not show up to invent, but I think some of the things that do affect it, I think one is just two very large metropolitan areas close to each other, dc and Baltimore. They're about 25 miles away from their closest points and you know when I say DC I mean, like the DMV area, just these in adjacent parts of Maryland and Virginia. You know whatever's in the belt wedge, and so there's. You know the other cities nearby also, like Frederick, I would not go to DC. There was one dungeon, studio 58, that was in Frederick and that was a popular destination. People from DC, people from Baltimore go there also. So you've got this symbiotic relationship between these nearby cities. And then I think another thing that has helped is that it has been around for a while, so it's had time to mature.
Speaker 4:Have you heard of Jack McGeorge Say it again, he was Jack McGeorge. No, jack McGeorge, yeah. He, you know, was the leader of the DC community. He was Black Rose. He was, you know, the power behind the force behind that. He used to teach around the country.
Speaker 4:He was part of the team that was run by Hans Blix back when George Bush was president and somehow the press found out that he was kinky. It looks pretty open. He's going to conventions, things like that. The press found out and they tried to make an issue about it. Of course, jack McGeorge, yeah, so, jack McGeorge, you know this was at that time. Their team was total high profile.
Speaker 4:Jack McGeorge didn't want this to, you know, affect, so he wouldn't give Hans Blix his resignation. And Hans Blix looked at it and said well, you did good work, that's all I care about. So that was an old victory for kinky people. You know people with that type of competence having been around in DC and those people who went to DC because of their professional competence. Some of them took that and directed that to organizing the kinky community. So it started a while ago. It's had time to grow and split up into two pieces and grow more and you know there are lots of things that I saw for the first time in DC. It's a pretty progressive city. So, for instance, the first time I went to an event that had gender neutral bathrooms in DC, DC and the events.
Speaker 4:You know you have to have a hotel takeover or you have to have the entire facility to be able to do that, but you know that was in DC. You know other things like chucks. They were more commonly used in DC than other places when I first started to go there about 12 years ago. Chucks, like the chucks. But chucks, I mean the absorbent pads, like you know, puppy pads.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Like all-star.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh. I'm a big fan of all-star.
Speaker 1:Converses Totally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, you'll have to describe what a chuck is again. For me it's a puppy pad, okay, which is like a pad that puppies you put down for puppies to pee on, because they're not potty trained but they use them at like king parties under, you know, sloppy situations. Of course, of course, sure, sure, sure, yep, I'm on the same page now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm proud of that so they're used for any situation. The idea is, you know if you're going to do any kind of play that can get bodily fluids on equipment that's to be shared with others, you know, you prove, you know that that's the protective measure you take. You put the chucks down and you know it could be any type of play that could be played that perhaps involves genitalia or it could even be, you know, sometimes with the mound, just for even forgiving a massage, just so we're not getting a massage all the while on the table for others, or somebody's sweat and body that's directly going on the table where other people are going to lie. So you know that's that's one way to do it. So that you know the queer community, you know the country as the whole.
Speaker 4:Queer community has become a bigger. The presence of that and the King community has grown or switches. All these things that have happened over time. You know it just seemed more present to me in DC than I was seeing in other places. So those are some of the things that you know impressed me about it and what lead me to say that it's one of the best things. That and then the events that it has. I think that's what really sets it apart.
Speaker 4:You know, at one time it had nine conventions per year in DC, and I'm talking about the major ones hotel takeovers, festivals, and so there's no other place in the country that had that many. I think that's what really set it apart.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, but it's just. It's so funny to me. In DC, I mean, it totally clocks, but it's just so funny to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's encouraging to hear because you know I have aspirations in my lifetime to like consider public office and one of my worries has always been like it's a pretty easy Google to find. You know a nice white lady begging me and you know me personally, I don't care, Like that doesn't impact my ability.
Speaker 2:I think it makes my ability to govern better and I feel confident. I vote for you. Thank you, and I can't score you, thank you.
Speaker 1:My platform is going to be more about stuff.
Speaker 2:What's up?
Speaker 1:Loob, but it's encouraging to hear that, like DC you know, the surrounding area is very king friendly. I don't know how far that extends into the capital, but they got their own little group yeah. I mean, I think, I think.
Speaker 2:Graham runs it.
Speaker 4:Perhaps not in the state capital, but, yes, the population around it very much so. But I've also got another encouraging story for you, which is story of another Jack called Jack Rinella. He has written several books on about kink. He used to have a weekly column about BDSM. That ran over a decade since, like the mid 90s I think, when it started and he ran for office in Illinois state office. He ran for the Illinois Congress and he ran as an outgain letter man. Oh, all right, how did it go for him If he didn't make it an issue? He did not win. He lost to the incumbent. So he didn't make it in the Democratic primary. But if he had one, then district was heavily Democratic and he probably would have made it to office. But he lost to the incumbent who was already in office.
Speaker 2:Man, that would have been great.
Speaker 1:That is encouraging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to have us wrap up this episode. See, was there any things you wanted to add on to the end that maybe you didn't get a chance to say?
Speaker 4:I think we've had a terrific conversation with all kinds of interesting ideas, and I love what everybody else had to say.
Speaker 2:Is there a place people can go to find more about you and like when you teach your classes, or where you teach your classes or how they get access to your information, because it's so awesome. Yeah, I want to take a class, even though I just want to take it for the charts.
Speaker 4:So I could probably do a better job of that information current. So you know, the only place that really holds this regularly is on Fat Life. Okay, I have sort of fallen off Twitter and on that, you know, I had a page where I would post my upcoming classes. I haven't been terrific about posting it other than just. You know, rs, we can do events and stuff, and so through my activity feed is how it usually comes out Okay.
Speaker 2:So everybody, if you're lucky, you will catch one of C's classes. Yeah, can we know the Fat Life name it's?
Speaker 4:underground.
Speaker 2:I'll post it in the show notes, yeah, so everybody can follow and see when he teaches. Yeah, amazing, don't forget. You can support us on Patreon, become one of our patrons and help us continue to improve the quality of the podcast and help us support our other artistic endeavors. We do podcasts and films and other fun, sexy stuff. All of that information will be in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. Come back again some other time. Yeah, because this is a sexy place to be. Until next time, let's all figure out where on the chart we are the submissive chart. I'm asking you to say it.
Speaker 4:It needs a name. This chart needs a name. It does have some names. It does have these names. You know, maybe I can save that for another time. If you'd like me to talk about them, I'm happy to now, but I wanted to jump in on the tanks. I was trying to get in on it. Wrap this up. I want to direct that thanks to all of you.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, because I think that it's great that you're hosting something like this and it matters because you know just like how I first. There was a moment when I came to learn about oh, there are other people like me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we really appreciate that Same.
Speaker 4:These little things that help you realize that there are others are oh hey, I relate with that, and sometimes that can be, you know, just this, just one of your episodes about something that somebody really relates with could be the moment that enables them. Okay, hey, I'm going to explore this side of me some more. Oh, there are other people like me. Let me see you, I can connect with them. So so I appreciate that you are your championing, you know, different facets of sexuality and creating space for people to learn about them. Also, have a positive way that might enable them to explore that and embrace that.
Speaker 2:We're so happy to be able to do that. Thank you for your appreciation. Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So on that lovely note, everybody have a great, have a sexy time whenever you're listening to him this day or night, or whatever. Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah, go make a spreadsheet, go make a spreadsheet. Well, all kinds of what Sounds like you for me. Bye, bye, bye, bye, guys, Bye, bye.
Speaker 3:Talk Dirty to Me is a podcast by Little Renegade Films.
Speaker 2:It stars Sarah Marie Currie Casey Sammie Casey why don't you sound real sexy while you do it? Do I no, why don't?
Speaker 3:you. Oh, why don't I yeah Like you?
Speaker 2:remember how you read your synopsis.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, you want me to do it like that. Yes, okay, great Genius, okay. Talk Dirty to Me is a podcast by Little Renegade Films. It stars Sarah Marie Currie, casey, sammie, tosen Alifaso and Stephanie Spiegelman, with silent contributions by Taylor Novak. Title and closing themes by Tosen Alifaso. Follow us on the social medias at Talk Dirty to Me pod, and for more of our offerings go to littlerenegadefilmscom.
