In April of 2020, While the rest of the world was worried about running out of toilet paper, denturist Gabriel Wortman and his live in girlfriend of 20 years, were engaged in a blow out of a fight. This was nothing new to his girlfriend, Lisa, she was used to regularly being yelled at, assaulted, beaten and restrained by Gabriel. But on this night she was able to escape and run into the woods and hide. What would follow, would be unforeseeable, even to Lisa, who knew what he was capable of. For the next 13 hours, Gabriel would dress as an RCMP officer, while driving one of the FOUR replica RCMP cars that he had fixed up. He would terrorize, friends, acquaintances, and strangers alike. Many felt as if the RCMP had made multiple crucial errors, that had cost the lives of their loved ones. Could they have done more to keep the people of Nova Scotia safe? This is the tragic story of the 202 shooting in Nova Scotia, Canada.
If you’re interested in receiving bonus episodes, early release dates, an everything scary sticker and ‘thank you’ as well as a shout out on our regular feed! Please join at Patreon//everythingscarypod571
In April of 2020, While the rest of the world was worried about running out of toilet paper, denturist Gabriel Wortman and his live in girlfriend of 20 years, were engaged in a blow out of a fight. This was nothing new to his girlfriend, Lisa, she was used to regularly being yelled at, assaulted, beaten and restrained by Gabriel. But on this night she was able to escape and run into the woods and hide. What would follow, would be unforeseeable, even to Lisa, who knew what he was capable of. For the next 13 hours, Gabriel would dress as an RCMP officer, while driving one of the FOUR replica RCMP cars that he had fixed up. He would terrorize, friends, acquaintances, and strangers alike. Many felt as if the RCMP had made multiple crucial errors, that had cost the lives of their loved ones. Could they have done more to keep the people of Nova Scotia safe? This is the tragic story of the 202 shooting in Nova Scotia, Canada.
If you’re interested in receiving bonus episodes, early release dates, an everything scary sticker and ‘thank you’ as well as a shout out on our regular feed! Please join at Patreon//everythingscarypod571
Welcome to Everything Scary. My name is Lynn and I'm here with my co-host local celebrity, sorry, sorry, international celebrity. Thank you, matt McClain.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello.
Speaker 1:Every Tuesday we release a new episode, mostly true crime, but we've also been known to cover a pandemic, a haunting, a super mad, super strong chimpanzee. We'll cover anything and everything scary. Please rate us five stars and join us on Instagram at Everything Scary Pod. Here we go.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello.
Speaker 1:How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I am lovely.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And you're going away soon, eh. Yes, I am going to Tampa Bay. Whoa you're trying.
Speaker 1:You're letting your. I'm really excited about it. Now there's going to be all sorts of ladies flocking to Tampa Bay.
Speaker 2:I know. No, I'm going there for wrestling for the Well. My family's down there anyways, and then the Royal Rumble just happens to be down there.
Speaker 1:How lucky for everyone involved, and boy you, including the wrestlers.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about events that attractive ladies do not attend.
Speaker 1:Well, they do. They're paid to the way they think.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know. I know a thing or two about a thing or two, oh yeah, so we're going to hop right into it, because people don't like us to enjoy each other's company. Wow, haters, hate, hate, hate, hate.
Speaker 2:But you're haters.
Speaker 1:So I am shocked by this case actually, because I think we all remember it happening, like I'm doing the Nova Scotia shooting and I think, like because we were on high alert for a little bit right Like this last 13 hours. Yeah, how does that even happen?
Speaker 2:It was so wild because I don't know if it was one person at first, like I mean, I know that, what we know now in hindsight, but I think the story at the time was like oh my God, there's the one over there, there was another one.
Speaker 1:Do you know that? I can say full disclosure. I remember it happening. I didn't know who did it. I didn't know how it was resolved. I didn't know how many victims there were. I did not know that it was the biggest mass shooting that Canada's ever had.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think that's because we were selfishly living in our own little COVID bubbles for quite some time.
Speaker 2:Is that when this was kind of COVID?
Speaker 1:So this was a month after COVID went on lockdown. This is April of 2020.
Speaker 2:Oh gee, it was like a dentist, denturist, a dentist who collected police stuff Do you know where I work. A dentist clinic.
Speaker 1:Now I'm worried that she's going to know she's actually the most lovely.
Speaker 2:Does she collect any police memorabilia?
Speaker 1:It's all over the place.
Speaker 2:I keep saying you can't go in with a gun we have to talk about red flags. We have to start seeing these.
Speaker 1:I've never known why she has a pistol when she goes to take impressions. It's the weirdest thing, but she's a lovely girl. To make impressions of their teeth. Stop gagging Swapped. Okay, so I have to give some sources for this, though, because I did rely heavily on a lot of sources.
Speaker 2:CBC.
Speaker 1:CBC, I knew it Bull. Not that you could ever begin to understand, but you kind of have a background, Because a lot of the times you're like what the fuck happened to you.
Speaker 2:Just some like I don't know, is it insensitive to say context? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, but he does come with some context and it's kind of funny because he was a nightmare of a human being.
Speaker 2:But the dentist, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But if you look at his picture and I was reading his reviews for his denture clinic before any of this happened and people were saying, like he's, lovely, he's. If you want to go to a better denture place, you're not going to find- one except in Ontario. But uh, yeah, no, and his girlfriend worked with him and that's going to become an issue in this as well. But yeah, if you look him up, his name is Gabriel Wortman, so it's W-O-R-T-M-A-N and he just looks like your run of the mill dude. So Weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very weird. So it happened in April of 2020. I absolutely believe that it had something to do with us all being locked in our houses and running out of our minds and hoarding toilet paper.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pre-milled, toilet paper rarity.
Speaker 1:For sure. So it was. It took place in the beautiful Nova Scotia, which in itself is weird to me. Have you ever met an angry person that was from out east?
Speaker 2:No, actually no, no. They're all extremely hard workers, big partiers.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're all pretty uh super fun. Yeah, pretty joyful.
Speaker 1:I dated a guy and his parents were from Nova Scotia and when I was like going to meet them, my mom was like because I was nervous, obviously. And my mom was like they're from Nova Scotia.
Speaker 2:They're like salt of the earth. You're going to be fine, yeah.
Speaker 1:But in researching this case, it actually turns out that Nova Scotia does have a higher crime rate than the Canadian average. And what province would you say is the safest?
Speaker 2:Safest I'm going to go with uh, give me the sketch. I'm going to go Saskatchewan, safest.
Speaker 1:One of the most dangerous.
Speaker 2:Get out of here, yep Let me down.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, guess again.
Speaker 2:Um safest province, the BC.
Speaker 1:You're sitting in it, buddy. Ontario. Ontario is the safest and you know I'm probably going to get some hate for this, but I did look up all the stats on different forums Also. The smartest Ontario is the smartest. We have problems, wow.
Speaker 2:We are fucked, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Who would have thunk it?
Speaker 2:Wow so this Surrounded by idiots in this province.
Speaker 1:So this story takes place on Saturday, april the 18th. So what did we go into? Lockdown on March 13th, I want to say, because I think Jacob's birthday party was on the 8th and we all got together at a big, huge event, and then I think the Monday coming up was when they shut everything down. So, Jake just made it in by the skin of his teeth.
Speaker 2:Nice Howdy buddy.
Speaker 1:So this is a very small cottage area just off of the Bay of Fundy.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that name.
Speaker 1:Which I always thought was just a monopoly piece from the McDonald's monopoly.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:And the Bay of Fundy, smartest province.
Speaker 2:We should do an episode on McDonald's monopoly.
Speaker 1:That's actually. It's rigged, it is.
Speaker 2:It was. I mean now, I think. Unfortunately it's on the up and up, but at one time, yeah, for the first, like I don't know, I forget what the number was nine years, something that was never a legit winner.
Speaker 1:Because nobody could ever get the Bay of.
Speaker 2:Fundy. I love it, the Bay of Fundy.
Speaker 1:So this rural community only had about a hundred residents. So it's like really like you know everybody in the whole area. So at this time it's about 10, 20 in the evening and a local man and his wife noticed that there were flames coming up. It's very like a lot of woods, a lot of trees, a lot of woods, all that Usually. I love that. What?
Speaker 2:is that rural, A rural?
Speaker 1:A rural gerrard. You, the rural gerrard, you said what you just said.
Speaker 2:I just watched that episode the other day. I love 30 Rod.
Speaker 1:So the wife and her husband noticed that there were flames that were up top of the tree tops. So they decided there's like one road in this whole place. They're going to go up the road and they're going to check out.
Speaker 2:You know what's going to fire the town fire.
Speaker 1:On the way there they drove past a neighbor's home, and this was the home of Frank and Don Gulichin. They noticed that an RCMP car was parked outside of the residence and the vehicle was empty. They kept driving and made it to where the flames were, and that's when they noticed that the warehouse that their neighbor owned was completely taken over by flames. So this neighbor was Gabriel Wortman. Gabriel was a denturist owning two practices. He also collected real estate, and the warehouse that was burning was where he used to like tinker with motorcycles and like oh, not teeth.
Speaker 2:No, and he was like super Motorcycle free to see yeah.
Speaker 1:No, he was really big into like fixing bikes and like just he loved it. He loved to tinker with bikes. Apparently he was very smart, it's just one of his hobbies. So naturally this couple called 911, but they informed the operator that RCMP was already at the scene.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 1:As they made their way back to their home, they noticed that now the home of Frank and Don was also starting to be engulfed in flames, and the patrol car that was parked out front of their home had somebody sitting in it. So 911 had placed these two on hold by now because they were trying to get them connected with the fire department. As they looked on confusion, the RCMP vehicle pulled up alongside them and rolled down his window, and the couple automatically recognized the officer as Gabriel Wortman, the denturist, whose warehouse was on fire and who was certainly not an RCMP officer. So no sooner was his window rolled down when the man noticed a laser pointer focusing at his head, which gave him just enough time to duck when the bullet went whizzing past him.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, what. What oh my?
Speaker 1:God, yeah, so the way I envisioned it, because I watched a couple of different things on it and it looks like a very narrow road that goes up a hill. Gabriel's warehouse was on the left-hand side. They noticed that that was engulfed in flames and then they came back down and so they're looking at their neighbor's house and suddenly flames are pouring out of the windows and they're going.
Speaker 2:What the hell? Two fires.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then so the RCMP. And we're not thinking that Gabriel's dressed in RCMP clothing. He doesn't have a replica car. So when they pulled up alongside and then all of a sudden there was a gun pointed at his face.
Speaker 2:So they don't know that he's like a big cop collector no.
Speaker 1:And I mean they did know that he had outside of his practice but his practice was in Dartmouth. So he did have two RCMP cars that he was fixing up but they didn't have identification numbers, like it wasn't really Right and it was on their radar that it was something so weird. Yeah, like it was just kind of like oh, he went to an auction, he probably just got this car.
Speaker 2:Sure, he tinkers around, he's yeah.
Speaker 1:Here's a RCMP car that could be Gabriel.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So he opened fire on the pair, hitting the man once in the shoulder, but he was able to speed away without anything more serious happening.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God Right Anything more serious?
Speaker 1:So this man identified the shooter. Okay, these are very important to note when we're identifying the shooter, because the RCMP were really F-ed it up. No shit, the bed on this one Really Mm-hmm, which is terrible to say, because I always considered them kind of like our FBI, isn't it Like?
Speaker 2:I think that they're more federal right, yeah, and that's what I think they want to merge eventually into. Is it more of a role of the FBI?
Speaker 1:I don't think the FBI is going to be riding horses anytime soon. Well, I just I don't.
Speaker 2:With the suits? I don't see it. No, special agent, special agent buttercup.
Speaker 1:Knock on the door. Fbi, let me in. You're good, you're good, you're good, you're good. We are the goofier version of the States, though, aren't we?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would yes.
Speaker 1:So, like I said, they identified Gabriel at that point in time, so that's worth remembering. I'm just going to give you a quick rundown of who Gabriel is as a person.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Gabriel also stands to me like a really kind name.
Speaker 2:I know I am very biased towards the name Gabriel, I just love it, like my nephew's got a buddy named Gabe. I just think it's a nice name, like you don't picture a shitty person being named Gabriel. I don't know.
Speaker 1:My kids go to a Gabriel school. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Oh, from the Catholic school. That's the only.
Speaker 1:We have to drive for hours just because of their name, gabriel. But if you you know, look at this guy. He's got a kind-looking face. He doesn't look like anybody who's going to do what he did. But people also thought that Ten Bundy was hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never really. I mean, I can definitely see the attractiveness of a male, Like I can look at a male and I can say no, no, he didn't do it for me either.
Speaker 1:Maybe it was a 70s thing that made him hot.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, we really need to stop assuming that if people don't look like literal demons, that they're good.
Speaker 2:Oh crap, good point. You must be terrible.
Speaker 1:So Gabriel was originally from Hamilton, ontario. He was born on July 5th of 1968. His parents were Evelyn and Paul Wortman. At a young age they dumped Gabriel with his grandparents and moved to the States.
Speaker 2:Hence his passion for dentures. I would always see them in cups and all the rooms. Growing up, did you?
Speaker 1:ever have like a relative that had dentures.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because my uncle would scare the fucking shit out of any of us. We'd leave the room crying and he'd just have his teeth on his knee. Oh God, it was horrifying. But you know the grandfather. He was an abusive man and he was once stabbed by one of his own sons during an altercation.
Speaker 2:Jesus.
Speaker 1:Eventually Evelyn and Paul. Oh, come on as if you haven't stabbed your dad.
Speaker 2:That is true.
Speaker 1:But eventually Evelyn and Paul would come back for Gabriel. But that life wasn't much better because Paul was also very abusive towards his son. During a fight once, when Gabriel was seven years old, Paul handed him a.22 caliber gun and told him shoot me.
Speaker 2:I don't even really know what that like. Is that a handgun? Is that a rifle? Like I don't even I don't know what.22 even refers to.
Speaker 1:I think, I think it's a handgun.
Speaker 2:We don't know, it's just a gun.
Speaker 1:We don't know, and the problem is, these people are Canadian. Like they shouldn't know either.
Speaker 2:You're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1:Why aren't they just beating each other with hockey sticks?
Speaker 2:like the rest of us, simple folks. The handy-mandy right now is flipping out that we don't really know what the guns are.
Speaker 1:Oh whoa.
Speaker 2:Well set, the handy-mandy, and I love you so much.
Speaker 1:You need to stop putting the guys on dating sites on blast.
Speaker 2:I actually enjoy that. I'm horrified for them. I'm shocked, Like, okay, listen, if I can, this is not. I'm not going to defend men as a whole, but I will say this Our best move up until the dick pic was Hawking at Women. This is how we have devolved as a species.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what to say to that.
Speaker 2:It is just so weird that people think that that is an acceptable move.
Speaker 1:But they're not even approaching her. These are their profile pictures, yeah that is true, the shirtless. She can just skip it. Yeah, like, if this fool wants to look like an idiot all on his own time skip him. Bye.
Speaker 2:Amazing, amazing, he was dating. You wish that you were online dating.
Speaker 1:No, although I did have some good food when I was online dating.
Speaker 2:You could be a prison bride.
Speaker 1:I could, maybe I will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, we'll see.
Speaker 1:Anyways, back to this. So you know he gave a. I would assume it's not a rifle, because I don't think a seven-year-old could physically hold a rifle, Right, let's just go with we'll say that 22 calibers Again, Again. So people who went to school with Gabriel, they went to the University of New Brunswick with him and a lot of people said that Gabriel did not have one single friend.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh.
Speaker 1:So Gabriel, in 2001, he viciously attacked a 15-year-old boy outside of one of his denture practices. Gabriel's friend even joined in on the beating and stomped on the teenager's chest and hit him with a crowbar. Oh my god, gabriel was drunk. For the record, that doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2:No, you know what? Either way, you can't do that. If he hit the kid in the face and messed up his teeth, do you think the judge would say now listen, buddy. Next time you're making a pair of dentures, throw in a set of comps for this little kid.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not the way that dentures work. I Don't know if you really know. Next time we're at party city when you see those like Chattering teeth, those are. Those are good for that guy, yes.
Speaker 2:That's exactly. Yes, that's what I mean. Yes, so that is how it works. Yes, okay, yeah okay, is what you do. You wind to those all day at the denture clinic you want my job is I?
Speaker 1:I wind them so that when the patients come in they can see what is going in their mouth. It's just a chattering with I. I usually has its own little tongue and it's own little eyeballs amazing. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:My job is important. So he did have to go to anger management for this and he was placed on probation, but he was given a conditional discharge. Okay which is like please don't fucking have a bunch of illegal guns and please don't beat up teenagers anymore, and maybe just Chill the fuck out like the rest of the people at East.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I thought conditional discharge little penicillin, then you're good to go.
Speaker 1:No, that's, that's different yeah and also you shouldn't mention it, because you're really just telling all your secrets.
Speaker 2:Let me clarify. Okay, a lot of penicillin. I said a little. I Just want to be clear. I don't want people to think I'm a weirdo or something.
Speaker 1:So Gabriel had more legal problems in 2004 when he claimed to be oh god, let's know this. Okay. So he claimed to be helping out a friend who could no longer afford the payments on his home.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Gabriel purchased the home. Oh no, his friend was under the impression that Gabriel would purchase the home. Allow him to, you know, maybe pay rent rent, yeah, red dough or something like that and he would continue to allow his friend to stay there. You know friends, friends, stuff. But instead Um Gabriel decided that he would kick his buddy out, sell the house, and he sold it at a profit.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, wait, but but I would think yeah it was only a small profit, so shit.
Speaker 1:In 2010, he was investigated for threatening to kill his parents, which he did multiple times, so yeah but this one. His dad, paul, called in the threat, and this is another thing that should be remembered, because, after all of the horror of the story unfolds, paul was interviewed and he told the officers that if they had taken the threat seriously, they could have figured out that Gabriel had an absolute ton of guns which he couldn't legally own because of viciously beating a 15 year old.
Speaker 1:Oh right and being on probation. So if they had to just said like hey, do you have any guns Maybe, then he probably wouldn't have had those guns crazy. So in 2011, another tip came in saying that Gabriel had a bunch of illegal weapons, but it does not appear as though anything was done at that time either like what, like, what a fucking broken System.
Speaker 2:but then again, like I don't know, do you think they get like a thousand calls like that?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I think this is the white, you know, upper-class.
Speaker 2:Denturist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I think it's a white upper-class.
Speaker 2:He fishes our cars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, he's tinkering around with fucking bullshit in the back of his denture clinic. God, I've always wondered why my boss is always tinkering about with cars behind the denture clinic. It's like if she is not putting those wind-up teeth in someone's mouth.
Speaker 1:It's fucking, it's crazy. So then in 2013, brenda Forbes and her husband moved to the area. They were both ex-military, and when Gabriel found out about that, he was all too happy to fill them in about all the legal weapons that he owned, and he then asked if they were able to also get him maybe a few more illegal weapons. Oh my god. And Brenda replied it's illegal, you can't do that. She would later report him on this all the illegally owned weapons, the fact that he was, you know.
Speaker 1:Losing them for illegal weapons, and she would also report the fact that he was abusing his live-in girlfriend, lisa Bansfield.
Speaker 2:Oh shit.
Speaker 1:Lisa would later claim that in the two-year relationship, gabriel had physically attacked her for the first time in 2003. So for nearly 20 years Gabriel had been beating, assaulting and restraining Lisa, and it was determined that a blowout fight that he had had with Lisa on April 18th May have been the catalyst that set all of this devastation off. Although it seems like this was way, you know, it was most likely a thing that he'd been planning for a really long time. I mean, he had four old RCMP patrol cars that he was Fixing up and he was ordering new parts to, you know, get them back in tip-top shape. He kept two of them parked out back of one of his denture practices, so it was no secret that he had them.
Speaker 1:Yeah they didn't have the vehicle identification number on them because of course those are removed when they sell the vehicle to people, so that people don't believe it's real. P card, did I say card.
Speaker 2:I think she did.
Speaker 1:You think I did? I did. Oh fuck, we're the most intelligent province.
Speaker 2:I don't know what is more like infuriating when there's like a shooting or a killer and so he's like I had no idea. You never knew who knew he was the quietest guy, we had no idea he was like.
Speaker 1:Or this, where there's like a thousand red flags and the system Fails well, I don't know, like if it was me and I was, I'd just be like. Well, I seems like a nice, you know Nova Scotian feller. He I mean everybody keeps telling me that he's beating people, but like he gave me these fresh teeth. No, I don't know, you know I.
Speaker 2:It's weird.
Speaker 1:It's just a weird thing to happen in that area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:You always hope that people are trained to like the fullest extent that they have to be trained. But I mean, Things get lazy when that kind of stuff just really doesn't happen. I mean, we in hindsight, we can always say like you know, that is your job, you should always just be in tip-top shape and be prepared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, any weapons call should always be investigated. Any, yeah, but maybe In reality it's human error. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And you get a feel this is a community of a hundred people Like nothing like this has ever really. I guess maybe Lisa was hiding it pretty well, because I don't think that anybody really knew what was going on in that household, but I don't know. I just think that it's one of those things where you get used to living in a nice area with a hundred people and then you know something like this, all hell breaks loose. So Right before the night in question, gabriel bought a decal with a fake identification number of two eight b11.
Speaker 2:Is that the car number they put over the?
Speaker 1:Rear passenger wheel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right yeah that's not where I was gonna think it was, but I'm going, I'm like yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, of course back rear wheel. We said at the same time so on that night, after fighting with Lisa, she had actually just managed to break free and went and hid in the woods. I did look up the weather on this day, because April in Canada is really like who fucking knows.
Speaker 2:It was either plus or minus 40. It was. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:But on this night it was 34 degrees Fahrenheit, which is one degree Celsius, so just above freezing.
Speaker 1:Okay and it had light snow showers. And this will end up mattering, because Lisa wasn't the only one that would have to go and wait in the forest. So Lisa had run off and that was when Gabriel's rampage would begin. Gabriel passed the home of his neighbor, greg Blair, who was out front on his porch getting some fresh air after having some friends over that evening. His wife, jamie, and two sons, ages 10 and 12, were in the home when they heard Gabriel and Greg having a bit of a heated exchange and then they heard Greg say what the fuck are you doing with a gun? And that's when they heard the shots Jamie Heard from inside of the house and she grabbed her two boys, hid them in a closet. She closed the bedroom door, sitting up against it in an effort to keep Gabriel out. Oh my god. She called 911 again. Gabriel was id'd. So this is the second time somebody said this is Gabriel warped out a cop.
Speaker 1:Right as Jamie was on the phone, gabriel came in and he shot through the bedroom door, killing her as well. Poof as the boys stayed in the closet, horrified, gabriel went around the house distributing fire logs that he had taken out of the fireplace. He then turned the propane on and left the house. When the boys began smelling smoke, they ran through the woods by their home to a neighbor's house, and this neighbor was lisa mcully, who was a teacher and a single mother of two smart kids.
Speaker 1:Lisa took the boys in and advised them, as well as her own two children, to go to the basement and hide. She then noticed the flames of the fire and noticed that an rcmp car was outside. When she went out to ask if everything was under control, she sadly ran into Gabriel wartman, who shot and killed lisa, making her his third victim geez. He then went to the home of john zahl and joeyan thomas. John was a father to four grown children, and he had met and married joeyan in 1985.
Speaker 2:So and he's driving like he's in the cruiser at first.
Speaker 1:I don't believe he was. I think he went down the hill on foot when he saw the first neighbors. The first neighbors, yeah and now I think he is driving. So he saw john and uh, he had four grown children. So sadly, Gabriel would kill this couple and set fire to their home. The next two victims were frank and dawn from the beginning of the case.
Speaker 1:So, this was the people that were driving to see what the fire was when they came back, and he was parked out in front of that house. This is um right frank and dawn. So he was then off to see an acquaintance whose name was erin tuck. Gabriel had an issue with erin because he was looking to add. So Gabriel had about um a two million dollar real estate. Is it a portfolio? Yeah, so he had, you know, his warehouse. He had his two practices, he had a couple different homes boy.
Speaker 2:This was two years or four, four years ago right.
Speaker 1:Well, novice gorsas also really super treat too. But he was looking to add to his waterfront collection of properties and he had made erin Uh offer to purchase the home that erin was fixing up, and he offered him a whopping for Okay. So four years ago, novice gosha. Yeah waterfront property.
Speaker 2:What do you think he offered him? I don't know this.
Speaker 1:600 grand 18 000 dollars. Oh jesus, to which erin declined. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why, but it is believed that for that reason erin was targeted. It's all really confusing because some of his victims he knew, some of his victims he was acquainted with and some were just yeah random.
Speaker 2:I guess in a small town. Right, if that is what's going to happen, right, you're going to have random people that you know and random people that you don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know, maybe he had extremely small reasons why he would be upset with them, while others were complete strangers. But that evening he went into Aaron's home and he killed Aaron, his long-term girlfriend Jolene Oliver and their 17-year-old daughter, emily Tuck. One witness that thankfully was unharmed physically was a man named Clinton Ellison. He and his brother Corey had come to Porta Peak. Did I say it was Porta Peak?
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Porta Peak, nova Scotia, is where we are right now. It's that very small cottage country. They were there to visit with their father and just after 10 pm their dad had gone to bed and the two brothers stayed awake and chatted while listening to music, and that was when they heard a single gunshot. But being that they were in a rural area, this was not, on its own, entirely shocking.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:But a short while later their dad awoke and he said he hadn't heard the shot. But they decided to go up front and listen if they could hear anything. And that was when Clinton said that they could see the orange glow of fire above the tree line and his brother, corey, decided that he wanted to go check it out. Their father asked him not to go, but Corey insisted, saying that he would be right back. As Clinton and his dad sat and waited for Corey to return, he was suddenly calling them on the phone. Corey told him that the fire was really bad and he was just taking some pictures of it and would return. He advised him to call the fire department and, after some time had passed, clinton said he was going to walk up the road and get Corey and bring him back home. His dad walked with him to the end of the driveway but then turned around and went inside.
Speaker 1:Clinton turned on the flashlight on his phone and made his way up the dark road. He hadn't gotten too far when he saw a body laying on the side of the road. He shined his light on it and realized that it was his brother, corey, and he was lying motionless in a puddle of blood. Jesus. Clinton turned and started running when he noticed that someone else had their flashlight on him. He turned off the light on his phone and ran as fast as he could into the woods where he hid. He called his father and quietly advised him of what he had found. He told his dad to turn off all of the lights in the house and not to call him back.
Speaker 1:He didn't want to risk whoever was chasing him seeing the light of his phone. Clinton would lay in the cold woods for four hours as gunshots rang above him the entire time.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow Woods are pretty popular that night.
Speaker 1:Right, right, jesus. So the last two victims to be identified in the Porta Peak area were Joy and Peter Bond. It would appear as though the killer knocked on the door and when Joy answered, he killed her and also shot her husband, peter. When he appeared behind her at the doorway, the first responding officer was Constable Stuart B Salt. He had been with the RCMP for 24 years and he was at the scene at 10.26 pm. So it's kind of important just to kind of remember the times.
Speaker 1:So 10.26 pm was when the first officer arrived. He was then met shortly afterwards by Aaron Patton, who had been with the RCMP for three years, and Adam Merchant, who was with them for 13. And what they found was complete devastation 13 were dead and multiple structure fires. They would locate the four children that were hiding in the basement of Lisa McCully's home. They told the kids it was best that they stay where they were at the time and gave them a safe word and told them not to come out of hiding unless they heard the safe word. Oh my God. At 11.32 pm, rcmp would release their first statement through Twitter, and this would be the first of what the public would later consider to be mistakes that were made. The first tweet read hashtag RCMPNS responding to a firearms complaint. In the hashtag Porta Peak area, porta Beach Road and five houses road, the public is asked to avoid the area and stay in their home with the doors locked at this time. That is the first tweet.
Speaker 2:That is an error.
Speaker 1:That's the tweet they sent out at 11.32.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So they were receiving their first call at 10.20 about the fire.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:And then this tweet doesn't say anything about the 13 victims and all the fires. They're just saying they're investigating. That's right, was there?
Speaker 2:a controversy. I am slowly remembering there that there was no emergency alert and I think that they were calling for one, or somebody had said this should have been sheltered employees Every single family member of the victims.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll get into that, because this is just one of many. And Twitter what the fuck are you doing on Twitter? You?
Speaker 2:know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not everybody has Twitter.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, and this was 2020.
Speaker 1:Like I think Twitter was on, like its decline at this point, too right. Like I think. Twitter was like a 2015 kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I think so too. So, Now it's X. Oh God, give me a break.
Speaker 1:So this tweet made no mention of the 13 victims that they were investigating. Active shooter, or what goes wrong.
Speaker 2:Right, they said they were investigating a complaint.
Speaker 1:That could mean anything.
Speaker 2:A firearms complaint.
Speaker 1:Right. Not even like a that could be some kid shooting cans in his backyard, realistically, yeah. So you know they were under the impression that there was only one way out of Porta Pique and you know the cops had that blocked off. So if the shooter tried to leave Porta Pique he would have to drive right past them, mm-hmm. However, one thing that they did not know and many people didn't, unless you lived in the area was that there was a narrow dirt road through a blueberry field that led out of Porta Pique.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:This is not, people just didn't know this.
Speaker 2:The cops didn't know this.
Speaker 1:The cops had no clue. Come on cops. So by the time that the sun had started to rise, the RCMP had located three of the replica RCMP cars that belonged to Gabriel Wartman, and when some of them had been torched and they hadn't seen Gabriel go through the main road to get out of Porta Pique, they assumed that he had taken his own life somewhere.
Speaker 2:In the car or somewhere or wherever?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and some of the officers were even sent home at that point in time.
Speaker 2:Oh Jesus.
Speaker 1:At about 6.30 am, lisa Bansfield. So Gabriel's girlfriend came out of hiding and ran to the home of a neighbor named Leon Joudry. Leon said that when he heard her knocking he swiftly opened the door, pulled her in and then slammed the door shut again.
Speaker 2:Because everybody's on high alert. Oh, of course, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So, once she was safely inside, they called 911, and Lisa informed them that Gabriel had beaten, restrained and assaulted her the night before he had set out to terrorize the community. And this was when they found out that Gabriel did not have three RCMP cars, he had four. Oh oh, he also had multiple rifles and pistols, as well as an authentic RCMP uniform. Right At 8.02 am, which was 8.5 hours after their first tweet, the RCMP decided to release another tweet saying that they had an active shooter in the Porta Pic area.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, eight hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but little did they know that Gabriel was already long gone. Oh Jesus, he was gone by the first tweet that they had sent out. He had taken the road through the blueberry field and he was headed east towards a small farming community called Debert, and when he arrived he pulled off into an industrial area parking lot and rested for six hours.
Speaker 2:Because nobody's looking for him.
Speaker 1:Nobody's looking for him. He's dead as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2:Gee, and he's in the fourth car. Oh, he's rocking the car.
Speaker 1:He's still in the RCMP car. Yep, so sadly, if the RCMP had not assumed that Gabriel had taken his own life before actually having eyes on him, which you would think would be a very important—.
Speaker 2:Very important.
Speaker 1:Right. It almost certainly would have saved lives. I'm going to give you a quick trigger warning here for animal death. At 5.45 am, gabriel drove north on a highway forward towards Wentworth. He went to the home of two correctional officers that he knew. It is suspected that Gabriel was aware that they would have weapons in their home and that's why they were targeted. And sadly Gabriel was friends with these people apparently, and the couple were Sean McLeod and Alaina Jenkins. But just after 6 am he had killed the couple as well as their two dogs.
Speaker 2:Geez. Why were they targeted?
Speaker 1:Because they had weapons, because they were both correctional officers, so they would have weapons in their house.
Speaker 2:But what is that—what is he here? Or he wanted the weapons.
Speaker 1:He wanted the weapons.
Speaker 2:Oh, I got you.
Speaker 1:So he would stay in their home for two hours. Lord only knows what he was doing. Presumably he was looking for weapons, but he then set fire to their home and when a neighbor came out to see if everything was okay, he also shot and killed Tom Bagley. By this time another tweet had gone out. It's now 8.54 am and they had named the suspect as Gabriel Wortman, but for some reason still, they said the only threat was in Porta Peak. A lot of people in the surrounding area felt safe because Porta Peak was relatively contained. Right, it only had that one road.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Surely the RCMP would know if Gabriel had gotten out. But now Gabriel was back on Highway 4, and this time he was headed south. He just happened to spot just as random 65-year-old Lillian Campbell. She was out for her morning walk. He had never met Lillian before, nor did she have anything that he could use in his reign of terror, but he decided that he was going to end her life anyways. And then 33 year old nurse Kristin Beaton and her husband Nick had just found out that they were pregnant with another baby. After trying, they were already parents to a three year old boy named Dachston. Kristin was scheduled to travel to a patient's home that morning and they were aware of what was going on in Porta Peak, but they didn't think that they were at risk.
Speaker 2:I still leave it up there. We're fine. Cops got under control one road.
Speaker 1:So Kristin left her home on the morning of the 19th and she actually read the third tweet posted by the RCMP naming Gabriel, and she sent that tweet to her husband, nick, and he said that he was gonna go see if Gabriel had Facebook. When he was able to find a picture of the shooter, he sent it to his wife and Nick would say that that would be the last tweet that his wife ever read. So she didn't respond, but you could see that she had read it, she saw it.
Speaker 1:Just before arriving at her patient's home, kristin had pulled over to the side of the road, likely just to review her patient's history. Rcmp had not informed the public that the gunman was dressed up as an RCMP officer. Still so, when the vehicle pulled up alongside of Kristin, it's likely that she did not sense that anything was off. This was another mistake that could have saved her life. Another nurse that worked for the same company as Kristin, which was the Victorian Order of Nurses. This nurse's name was Heather O'Brien.
Speaker 2:Is that V-O-N Is that this, I mean you're-. I know the yeah, but those letters work out perfectly V-O-N is-. The organization maybe not Is it a nurse thing? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think we're safe today probably I mean the letters.
Speaker 1:Everything's all lined up.
Speaker 2:Everything's all lined up.
Speaker 1:So Heather also knew of the events that had transpired in Porta Pic and sadly her daughter, darcy, was friends with two of the victims, jamie and Greg Blair. Heather would message her six children in a group message and tell them to bring them back to the hospital and tell them to put in their coffee orders. She said she was just finishing up with her patient and she would then make her way to Darcy's home for a coffee day.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Darcy would later say that she believed that her mom had just wanted to get eyes on all of her adult children amidst the chaos. And at 9.59, darcy would receive another message from her mom and it read RCMP shots fired at DeBert. Darcy believed that her mother witnessed Gabriel shooting Kristin Beaton and he then turned the gun on her. Kristin and Heather would both be killed on the same road, 300 meters apart, and they both worked for the same company.
Speaker 2:Wow, she got that Tweet. Air that, not tweet that text to her kids. Yeah, Crazy.
Speaker 1:And then Heather had actually tried to drive away, but her car veered into a ditch where she sadly passed. Finally, at 10.17, a full 12 hours since the first 911 call had been placed they advised who the shooter was and another tweet went out saying that the suspect is dressed as an RCMP officer and is driving a replica RCMP vehicle. Wow, this would have been fucking crucial information to go out just hours before her Are the overwhelmed with infamy.
Speaker 2:Is there a 1,911 calls coming in and they're just like okay, wait, like writing things down or like.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I just never know what they're thinking. Sometimes you know they keep information close to the vest for some reason, but I mean like this is an active shooter that's posing a threat to just the public. Like why not say how he's dressed? That's especially when he is dressed as somebody who they should be.
Speaker 2:It was very trustworthy. Who they should trust instinctively? Yes, uh-huh, somebody that could really walk up to any group of people and nobody would run.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and there was nothing distinct. Looking about this guy, you know what I mean. Like it's not like he had like a weird mustache or anything like that. Like he just looked, like every guy.
Speaker 1:Like a regular dintress, yeah, like it's exactly what my boss looks like just a regular dude? No, she doesn't. So they had finally let them know that this guy was clearly a threat and he was dressed up as somebody who shouldn't be a threat. And Constable's Chad Morrison and Heidi Stevenson were both starting their shifts in the morning of April 19th when they had been advised that a marked RCMP car was headed towards Schubinacatee.
Speaker 2:And all of a sudden I'm like I can't help you. That's how. That is how I've looked it up a million times.
Speaker 1:It's really just a fun word to say, it's just a fun word to say. So Constable Chad Morrison was already positioned in Schubinacatee.
Speaker 2:Now you're just getting cocky.
Speaker 1:Constable Stevenson radioed over to him after it had been said that, like this weird car, it's marked like. Let's just be aware of it. And so, heidi, constable Morrison radioed over and said Chad, if there's anything to this last one meeting the sighting, I'm gonna make my way to your position. When he saw a Ford Taurus police car that he thought was Constable Stevenson, he started driving towards her and when he noticed that the car had a push bar on the front of it which her car would not have had, he knew something was wrong. And by the time he had made that realization the shooter was already had his gun pointed at him. He was hit, but he was able to speed off to get medical attention and he would survive. He radioed in that the gunman had continued on to Highway 2, going southbound. As Constable Stevenson was on her way still, she spotted the gunman who smashed into her vehicle and then he opened the door, went to her window and opened fire on her. Oh my god. Sadly, constable Heidi Stevenson did not survive.
Speaker 2:Well, why is this not so?
Speaker 1:popular is the wrong word I mean in our lexicon like, yeah, because of COVID, that's the only thing I can chalk it up to being.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet you, we could all tell you everything about the Tiger King, which also happened around. You know what that's a?
Speaker 1:really good. You know what? I think that maybe at that time we just had to listen to mindless bullshit yeah. Like you're like well, at least I'm not.
Speaker 2:Maybe there was a lot of room on the news for it. At least I'm not, joe.
Speaker 1:Exotic.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. I just I think Because I know personally. I'm all about true crime and everything, but if I do put too much into the true crime world it will cause me physical anxiety.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And I think that at that point we were all just already experiencing so much physical anxiety.
Speaker 2:One thing on groceries. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:I would have just been a walking zit if I had known about all this chaos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:So we just sadly lost Heidi Stevenson. Joey Weber was at the scene when Heidi Stevenson was shot. He was a 36-year-old father to four daughters. He was out on a morning run running errands. When he witnessed what had happened, he tried to run over and assist Constable Stevenson, but Gabriel shot and killed him as well. Wow, gabriel then stole Heidi's gun. He then poured gas into the trunk of his car and set it on fire, stealing Joey Weber's Chevy tracker. Next he was off to the home of Gina Goulet, who was a competing denturist.
Speaker 2:So again he's got these super tiny, tiny vendettas against people that are not worth anything.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. The other guy that Aaron talked, it was like, okay, he wanted your Firstly, he couldn't have wanted it that bad if you're offering $18,000.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:Second of all, it's not like this man is without home you know what I mean, like this wasn't his last opportunity to find a place to live Like this guy's had. He has a $2 million real estate portfolio, so it's like these are very, very small injustices in your mind.
Speaker 2:He just wanted to add more waterfront Poor thing, To his portfolio.
Speaker 1:So he was off to Gina Goulet's home. She was a competing denturist. Some sources did say that Gabriel had asked Gina to work for him and that he was bitter when she declined his offer. However, I can't completely verify that statement. This attack did seem intentional, though, because it wasn't just opportunistic. He arrived at her home, he broke a window, he actually cut himself in the act.
Speaker 2:Oh, like enter okay.
Speaker 1:And then another trigger warning for animal cruelty, because when he entered the home he shot her German shepherd, who was named Ginger, and Ginger did survive. Yeah yes, but sadly he went inside and he killed Gina. He then changed his clothing and he left in her gray Mazda 3. But crazy, yes, it's all awful.
Speaker 2:But like it's also the mix of plan and impromptu, murder is fucking crazy. It almost seems like he was kind of on a path but, then he was just whoever was there in the meantime was going down as well, yeah, right, like I'm going down this street, anybody on that street at that time?
Speaker 1:But the sad thing is and it's not a sad thing, but like to never know truly what was going through his mind is like I, just I can't accept that somebody, just you know.
Speaker 2:Can you just snap and just want mayhem and destruction?
Speaker 1:His father's, convinced that he wanted death by a cop. Well, I mean you could have done that easier, though you know what I mean. Like that didn't take.
Speaker 2:I got a couple of follows for the old man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, he killed Gina. He changed his clothes, he took her gray Mazda 3. Thankfully, though and you know, normally when I tell these stories I do like to save something for the end of it, but because this is such a horrific story, I will tell you that Gina was the last of his victims.
Speaker 2:Okay, good.
Speaker 1:When he stole Gina's car, he had failed to notice that she had her tank low on gas. Nice, and that's from now on, when my husband's, like you, can't have it down. Good God For 25 kilometers left until you're on empty. I'm going to be like tell that to somebody who's going to steal my car and hurt people. But after only driving for 21 kilometers, he had to stop. He had pulled into a Petra Canada, and shortly afterwards three constables pulled in after him. At this point, though, gabriel was wearing a white shirt and jeans.
Speaker 2:Oh, like randomly three cops.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I don't think that there's a high population Like it's probably everybody's locked in their house, and then there's Gabriel and Three cops. But so he's wearing right now. He's wearing a white shirt, he's wearing jeans and he's driving this Mazda 3. So the last they heard of him, he was wearing the RCMP outfit and he was driving the Chevy Tracker the right right.
Speaker 1:So that's what they have as their last, what they're looking for. So they didn't notice him and he was right on the other side of the tank, like, is that what it's called a tank or the?
Speaker 2:meter. Yeah, a meter right. Yeah, I call it a tank gas. Tank gas pump.
Speaker 1:This fucking idiot had pulled in? Okay, do you know that when you're looking at your dashboard and you look at your gas?
Speaker 2:Everybody knows that?
Speaker 1:No, I know, but do you know the arrow? Okay, well, gabriel didn't because he pulled in and then he tried to fucking stretch his hose.
Speaker 2:That was just Costco.
Speaker 1:And then the guy had to come over to the lab and be like hey, idiot.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you're not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:So if you could either fucking pull your car out, but is that an exact quote?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, for sure, I wasn't even fucking an idiot, he's like hey there boy Please try to turn.
Speaker 1:So while he was at that gas station he obviously couldn't get gas and he didn't want to look like a fool because we've all been there. I mean, have you been there? Because I've been there, where I just either fuck something up and then I just drive off, I go to a different gas station, I'm like they've already seen too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'll do the Costco and they have the long hose so you can Whoa. Yeah, I know, Don't Google that Costco's long hose Full of tall bitches.
Speaker 1:So you know, they didn't notice him because of his clothes and his car, and then he decided that he was going to go to a different gas station, which I sadly way passed, was it?
Speaker 2:You already mentioned Petrocan. Was it an ESO? So no, I believe it's something like. I don't think we have it here Points Petroleum.
Speaker 1:It's called like on the go or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, on the go. That's ESO, is that a thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so here we go. They also have a Tim Hortons probably so.
Speaker 2:Gabriel pulled the car in the wrong way.
Speaker 1:He was trying to get the gas into the tank, which was not working, so he ended up leaving that gas station without fueling up. So, yes, he did. He ended up going into a on the run and the a bunch of cruisers pulled in after him and they ended up firing 23 shots into Gabriel and killing him on the scene at 1116. He was deceased. I mean, I'm not one for overkill.
Speaker 2:Probably use a few more shots in this. Yeah, yeah, why not? Maybe just pour some gas on him.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, nevermind. See you later. So the immediate threat was over, but it was very clear that the way the RCMP had conducted this investigation there, it left a lot to be desired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really.
Speaker 1:They could have saved lives and approached it way differently. But the public wondered why on earth would these life and death warnings go out over Twitter?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:You don't must even own it yet. No, what's the problem?
Speaker 1:But not everyone uses Twitter and even if they did the information that they had regarding the shooter and what he was dressed like and you know then they assumed he ended his own life. Like everything was just either assumptions or just they didn't mention anything and all of that could have really saved a lot of lives. And then, unfortunately, his girlfriend, lisa Bansfield, who in my opinion, was also a victim of Gabriel's. People really, really hated her because apparently she had also bought ammunition in the past. Like she hadn't.
Speaker 2:I mean come off, that's extra, that reach.
Speaker 1:People were saying things like she should carry half the blame and go to jail for the rest of her life Get fucked. Somebody else said that they hope that she never gets a good night's sleep ever again. Am I missing something? No, you're not. You're not. I think that really what happened was that people needed somebody to be angry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm being angry.
Speaker 1:Because she Lisa did end up coming forward two years later so in 2022, and she's just so timid and meek and this guy had beat her mercilessly and he once raped her on Christmas day, like she ended up having to quit her job.
Speaker 2:It was not evil. It's not like a Carla Homulka situation where you're fully, absolutely not. Yeah, so fuck off.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not. People just needed somebody to be angry at.
Speaker 2:That's crazy and it's just like until you've been like people will be like why wouldn't you leave, Like she was there for 17?
Speaker 1:years until you find yourself in that position, you don't have a fucking right to say that that is the hardest question to not ask. Why she wouldn't leave.
Speaker 2:Because you know what there's no but look at her where she lives.
Speaker 1:It's so secluded, right. So what is she just going to uproot? Yeah, like it's just. And then so she quit her job. Like she would clean and cook. Like the neighbors knew that he was being abusive to her, those ex-military like they were the ones that called it in the first place because she was being and he wasn't quiet about it. Like he would like push her out of moving cars and stuff. Like he was a fucking nightmare of human being.
Speaker 1:And then for you know, your abuser to finally be taken down, but in like this most horrific way. And then people are saying you should never get a good. She's like I haven't had a good night's sleep in fucking 17 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, what else is there? Yeah, no shit.
Speaker 1:So I had to tell that story because it really just is-.
Speaker 2:It's a wild.
Speaker 1:It's a wild story and I really don't think we knew like the details surrounding it. But yeah, that's the Nova Scotia shooting and it's the biggest mass shooting in Canadian history and it just happened fucking three years ago. Yeah, wow which is crazy, what a bumbling investigation Right. Shit. That's our FBI.
Speaker 2:ladies and gentlemen, yeah, I'm sure a lot of people got canned over that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or should. Anyways.
Speaker 2:Okey dokey, that's that.
Speaker 1:We're going on to a letter one, okay.
Speaker 2:Bye.