If this is your first time tuning into ES this is not a typical episode that we release on Tuesdays. Today’s case is a bit of a harder episode to tell. If you guys like the serious solo episodes we will find a way to incorporate these eps into the week. But this is the only time we will be switching it up on a Tuesday. So let us know what you think!
Well, you guys, this is my first ever solo episode, and holy sh!t is it ever terrible.
James Bulger was a month away from his 3rd birthday, when two 10 year old boys took him from The Strand shopping centre, when his mother Denise, looked a way for exactly 1 minute.
What followed was some of the most heart breaking series of events. and it was all at the hands of children.
Please take care when listening to this case. TRIGGER warnings, for...essentially everything.
If you’re interested in receiving bonus episodes, early release dates, an everything scary sticker and ‘thank you’ as well as a shout out on our regular feed! Please join at Patreon//everythingscarypod571
If this is your first time tuning into ES this is not a typical episode that we release on Tuesdays. Today’s case is a bit of a harder episode to tell. If you guys like the serious solo episodes we will find a way to incorporate these eps into the week. But this is the only time we will be switching it up on a Tuesday. So let us know what you think!
Well, you guys, this is my first ever solo episode, and holy sh!t is it ever terrible.
James Bulger was a month away from his 3rd birthday, when two 10 year old boys took him from The Strand shopping centre, when his mother Denise, looked a way for exactly 1 minute.
What followed was some of the most heart breaking series of events. and it was all at the hands of children.
Please take care when listening to this case. TRIGGER warnings, for...essentially everything.
If you’re interested in receiving bonus episodes, early release dates, an everything scary sticker and ‘thank you’ as well as a shout out on our regular feed! Please join at Patreon//everythingscarypod571
Welcome to Everything Scary. My name is Lynn and I'm here with my co-host local celebrity, sorry, sorry, international celebrity. Thank you, matt McClain. Hello, hello.
Speaker 1:Every Tuesday we release a new episode, mostly true crime, but we've also been known to cover a pandemic, a haunting, a super mad, super strong chimpanzee. We'll cover anything and everything scary. Please rate us five stars and join us on Instagram at Everything Scary Pod. Here we go. Hey you guys. So this episode might be a little bit weird. If you are tuning into Everything Scary for the very first time and you absolutely hate it, please know that this is not our regular format. Check out one of the other episodes in our catalogue and see, get a better idea, at least with the pods. Like Every Tuesday, we release a new episode myself and my co-host, matt and we like to try to approach true crime with a little bit of levity, try to take a little lighter take on it and, going forward, tuesdays will be for those episodes. We also have a Patreon where we release one to two full episodes a month. But what I'm trying to do now is I think that I'm going to try to insert maybe a little bit more of a serious case where I'm solo, because Matt usually just sits there with his mouth wide open and unable to bring any levity to these cases. So I think I'll try to do them alone. Maybe I'm going to try to do one a week or one every two weeks. We'll see how you guys like it. Okay, if you have any suggestions for cases like this, please send me an email at everythingscaryateverythingscarypodcom and in the subject please write solo episodes. I think we're going to come up with a better name for that, if you guys even like it at all.
Speaker 1:So let's get started on today's episode and full disclosure. I have a glass of wine sitting with me. This was one of the hardest episodes I've ever covered in my life. I always thought Chris Watts is going to be like my Everest to conquer, but as it turns out, it's this one. This one was way worse and there was multiple times that I had to actually close my computer and walk away from it for a bit, because it's a lot. I don't even really know what trigger warnings to give you guys. It's got a lot of kids stuff in it which is horrific. Not only is the victim a baby, but the two perpetrators are also 10 year old boys, so that adds a whole different element of awful to it. I just want to say, like, please take care when listening to it. If you listen and just use your discretion, maybe grab a glass of wine. It helped me a little bit, if I'm being completely honest.
Speaker 1:So the case I'm going to be covering today, some of you may have already guessed, is the murder of James Folger, and I am going to level with you guys. This is the most devastating thing I've ever researched. So if that doesn't say welcome, I don't know what does. I got most of my information from 60 minutes. There's a few episodes out of 60 minutes on this case. There was also a really, really good more recent documentary and it was called the Lost Boy the Killing of James Folger. Another documentary called James Folger, a Mother's Story. And so here it goes, my first solo episode, and it's going to be a doozy.
Speaker 1:So James Patrick Boulder was an absolutely beautiful, perfect little boy. He was born on March 16th of 1990 to his parents, his mother Denise and his father Ralph, and it was just the three of them. Ralph and Denise lived about a two-minute walk away from her mother's house in Liverpool in the Walton District. She described her flat as small, but it was just how she wanted it. She had her young family and everything was perfect. Growing up, denise was the teenager that parents sought out to watch their children if they wanted a night out, and she wouldn't have had it any other way. She loved being with children and she was beyond thrilled when she had her own. Denise said that James had barely learned how to walk before he learned how to run. She said that whenever they went to gatherings people would know that James was there because he would run by and you would just see this little mop of blonde hair bounce along. And he was also a mum-as-boy. Although he was high energy, like most little boys are, after he would calm down he would always scan the room for his mum's lap to climb up onto. Sadly, after James, denise had suffered the loss of a daughter when her baby was still born and for that reason she did tend to hold James a little tighter During the day.
Speaker 1:On February the 12th sorry, it was Friday, february the 12th in 1993, denise's friend had come by and asked her if she wanted to go to the Strand, which was a shopping center and it was located in Boutel, merseyside. Denise's friend told her that she needed to go and return something, so it wasn't going to be a long trip. And Denise now claims that agreeing to go with her friend would turn out to be the biggest mistake that she had ever made. But of course, hindsight is 2020. And at the time she thought it would just be nice for her and James to get out of the house for a little bit. So she thought James all dressed up in his winter coat and off they went.
Speaker 1:Denise would say that one thing that was a little bit different that day was that she would normally always bring James' stroller with her, and after everything happened she would say how strange it was that she didn't even think to bring his stroller, because normally, even when she didn't need it, she would carry it under her arm. But for whatever reason, on this particular day she left it at home in the front hallway. They got to the shops a bit after 1.30. They weren't there very long and began headed out just after 3pm. And Denise said goodbye to her friend and was about to leave when she decided to go into the butcher shop quickly. On their way out, james had been getting a little bit restless and he had let her on a couple cat and mouse chases. So she was starting to realize that it was definitely time to go. She had James by the hand when she went up to pay and when she went to reach for her payment she let his hand go for only a moment.
Speaker 1:At a later time, police would scan CCTV footage, which consisted of 16 cameras placed throughout the strand, and they would see James exit the butcher shop at 3.39pm and a worried looking Denise would follow at 3.40pm. It took him one minute to get away and if that isn't the scariest thing, one minute to change your life forever. Denise immediately went to the reception area where she made her report. The police were called. She then scoured the shopping center looking to find any shops that had those coin operated little rides out front of the store. James loved those rides and naturally Denise thought that if he had wandered off on his own he would be drawn in when he saw those and that would be her best chance of finding him. Unfortunately, she was not having any luck. Officers were called to the strand and the search for James really got started at about 4.20pm.
Speaker 1:The strand closed at 5.30pm that day and as the shops were all locking their doors, denise said that's when she felt the desperation starting to sink in. When they were able to come through the CCTV footage, they saw that after James had exited the butcher shop, he began following two young boys. These cameras were from 1993, though, and they appeared as though they would just take a screenshot every couple seconds, so it was not a fluid motion, but they did see that one of the young boys took James by his hand and guided him out of the strand rather quickly and truthfully. The investigators and Denise all breathed a sigh of relief when they saw that it was two young kids. They initially thought that they were young teenagers, maybe maybe 13 or 14 years old, but it seemed less sinister than if an adult had taken James. Maybe these kids just wanted to play with him for a little bit, or maybe they had even allowed him to join when it was James who had wanted to play with them. Most thought now that James would be returned safely when the boys would have exited the strand. They were likely met with large groups of people, being as this is the only shopping center in the bootle area, there surely had to be some witnesses, and as the investigation progressed there were witnesses Many who assumed that the baby was with his older brothers, but some did say that they saw James crying, and there were even others that said that not only was he crying but he had a little bump on his head that was bleeding.
Speaker 1:The first officer that had been on the scene was Mandy Waller, and she was a family liaison officer and as the investigation progressed, mandy was specifically assigned to stay with Denise. If she needed anything or remembered anything, mandy would be there with her. On that Saturday, which was February the 13th, denise and her husband Ralph would speak to the media in hopes that the boys who had James would see this and bring him home. Denise said that she didn't even care about the cameras, she didn't care about the people behind them. She just wanted to say to whoever had James I want them to know he's mine, not theirs, and if they got him, I need him back. I want him back. Denise looks so devastated and she looked as if she hadn't slept a wink, and I'm sure she probably hadn't when one of the reporters asked her, denise, what happened, and she replied when I lost him, you mean, and then she just broke down. In that moment it looked to me like she just had meant to answer the question of what she heard the words that she lost him, and she heard that come out of her mouth. I think it did cause her to break down, and even though I don't think Denise is guilty of anything that the majority of parents haven't done multiple times, I can fully understand why she felt the way she did.
Speaker 1:On Sunday, february, the 14th Valentine's Day, mandy thought it would be a good idea to get out of the house and take Denise for a drive, just maybe get her some fresh air. They had not been driving for very long when Mandy received a call and she was told to make her way back to the station immediately and to turn off her radio. Mandy, of course, did what she was told, and when Denise asked why they had to go back to the station, mandy told her that she didn't know. But Denise did not believe her. She said that in that moment she knew that her baby had been found. On that Valentine's Day afternoon, four young boys were playing along the railroad tracks, about two miles from the New Strand Shopping Center and also only about 100 yards from the Walton Lane Police Department. One of the boys said as they walked up you could just see him laying there on the tracks and one of the other boys said is that a baby? And they ran home to tell their parents of what they had found.
Speaker 1:Once Denise and Mandy returned back to the police station, they sat Denise down and told her that the body had yet to be identified, but that they had found the body of a little boy who matched James's age and description. And although Denise she said that she couldn't register it properly in her brain, she thought it had to be some type of a mistake. She thought that they had it wrong, but she still let out this guttural scream and then she fell into a state of catatonia. James's uncle volunteered to be the one to identify James and, as Mandy put it, she said that when he went in expecting that he could handle what he was about to see, but what he saw broke him. She said that he came out speechless and broken. I mean, I can't even fathom it makes me sick to my stomach to even imagine any of these poor people what they had to see, what this baby had to deal with. I'm kind of getting ahead of myself here and saying this part, but one of the boys would later say that all James kept saying was I want my mom, and there's just nothing more heart-shattering than a baby who just wants his mom.
Speaker 1:So now the investigation was on. At first they thought they may have, you know, maybe James had wandered out onto the railroad tracks and it was an accident. He had gotten hit by a train. But when they started to look at James's injuries they realized that it wasn't a train accident. The gravity of the wounds that James had sustained were coming to light and it was becoming clear that a train had not been the one to kill little James.
Speaker 1:So now they were on the lookout for these two boys who were what they assumed were between the age of 12 and 15. They had an idea of what they were wearing because of the CCTV footage, but to say that it was grainy would not even be a proper definition. Like it almost looked as if the images were made up of horizontal lines, like as if it had been done an etch or sketch kind of thing. But again, we're in 1993, so I guess it's lucky that they had anything at all. They were able to make out that one of the boys who took James was wearing a leather jacket, so that's what they had to go with. They released the description boys between 12 to 15, and one of them wearing a leather coat.
Speaker 1:A business owner had called the police and let them know that he believed his security cameras caught footage of the two boys with James just after 4 PM on the day that James was taken and it had again. They have footage. But it's terrible. But in the area that they were there was kind of like a raised. It was like in the middle of like a sidewalk but it was like a foliage kind of. It was about two feet off of the ground and then it had like bricks that surrounded it. And because this was something that was raised, they were able to go back to that location and then they could kind of figure out a little bit easier or better how tall these boys were. And that's when they started to wonder if it was possible that these kids weren't even 12 to 15 years old, like they had initially thought, and maybe they could have been even younger.
Speaker 1:Four days after James' little body was found, a woman came into the Walton Police Station and she said that she had been at a friend's house on Friday the 12th and the friend's 10-year-old son had come home. He was filthy and he was covered in blue paint. She said that when she watched the CCTV footage from the strand that it could have been her friend's son and she left them with the name John Venables. Investigators followed up on the lead. The school confirmed that John had skipped off that day with another boy named Robert Thompson John, which actually did not seem to be that strange of a thing for these boys to be skipping school. These two were known to skip quite regularly and there was actually even other boys around the same age as John and Robert who would do the same thing. Their parents would drop them off at the front entrance to the school and before no time they would walk right out the back exit and leave the school only to hang around at the shops and steal small treats.
Speaker 1:John had not been at that school for very long. He had been transferred a few months prior because his old teachers were noticing some very concerning behavioral issues. He would often hide under his desk. He would cut himself and his clothing with scissors. He had once come up behind another student with a wooden ruler and he began choking the other child.
Speaker 1:He did have a bit of an unstable home life. His mother and father would break up and then reconcile, and John and his older brother and younger sister would be living in different homes. Both parents dealt with pretty significant depression issues and his mother was said to have let the children unattended at times. All three of the children were said to have learning challenges, and when the parents were apart, if John became too much for his mother, susan, she would ship him off to live with his father, neil, for short periods of time, and when he did live with Neil, he would try to have his friend, robert Thompson, over for visits, but his dad did not allow it because he said that Robert was a bad influence on John.
Speaker 1:Investigators first went to John's father's home and he told them that John was with his mother. They went to his mother's house where they were able to locate the clothing that he had been wearing on the day that James had been taken, and it was in fact covered in dirt and blue paint. As they prepared to bring John into the police station, he said have you talked to Robert? And that was when a different team set off to make contact with Robert Thompson. Robert also came from a bit of an unstable household. His father had left him when he was six and his mother had an issue with alcohol dependency and it was said that he was getting bullied at school. Investigators noted that when they advised Robert of what they were there for, he began to cry. But they also did notice that there was no tears coming out of his eyes and both boys were taken into custody separately and into separate stations.
Speaker 1:Robert was taken into Walton Lane Police Station and John was interviewed at Lower Lane Police Department. One piece of evidence that the investigators had and this is actually kind of fascinating that one of the shop owners that was just outside of the strand the owner had called because he was almost certain that that Friday that James was taken. He saw Robert and John hanging out out front of his store and there was a large window pane that they had their little fingers all over. And if you have kids in your life in any capacity, you probably know the feeling, either when you're over at a friend's house and your kids have their fingers all over everything and anything that's stainless steel, or when you have people's children over to your house and they're just leaving fingerprints absolutely everywhere. Well, this time it paid off because they were able to lift these fingerprints and they were able to make an identification and they were John Venable's fingerprints.
Speaker 1:Where Robert was in the Walton Lane Station. He had already admitted to being at the strand. He admitted that it was John's idea to take James and he was taking this all rather lightly. Even when they asked him what some of his hobbies were, he laughed and said that his hobby was skipping school. And the only time when he starts to cry is when he states that everyone is going to blame him for the murder of James. The reason that he felt that way was because there was blood on the shoes that he had worn that day at the strand.
Speaker 1:In John's interview he just flat out denies everything. He denies being at the strand, he denies seeing James. He said that Robert's a liar for saying otherwise. When he is told that Robert's confessing, it was said that he jumped out of his chair and he started hugging the interviewer and then he starts hugging his mom. He finally admits that he was at the strand but continues to deny taking James Back with Robert where he is still being interviewed by Detective Phil Roberts. He is essentially confessed. He admits that they were there, but he puts the entire blame on John. Sometimes some other sits in the room and at one point she asks him why he had wanted to put a rose on James' memorial and he responded saying because then baby James knows, I tried to help him. I'm there and I'm thinking of him now.
Speaker 1:One thing that Robert says during his interview that I found particularly disturbing is he said why would I want to kill him when I have a baby of my own? And for me I was just expecting him to follow that up with something like I would never want to hurt my baby brother Ben, or I would never want anybody to hurt my baby brother Ben. But that's not what he says. He says if I wanted to kill a baby, I'd kill my own, wouldn't I? And in John's interview they had pulled his mother aside because they noticed that even when they were asking him questions he would be responding to his mother as if he was scared of disappointing her. So they pulled Susan aside and they asked if she would have a word with him and maybe to encourage him to do the right thing. And Susan went back in and told John that no matter what he had done, they will still love and support him. And that was when he finally broke down and said I killed a baby. Can you tell his mom? I'm sorry? This is the part where I'm going to tell you some of James's injuries. Please feel free to skip it. It's really awful, or, if you need to pause and grab yourself a stiff drink. I had to walk away multiple times when I was reading this.
Speaker 1:When they left the strand, their first plan was to have James look into the canal. They told him to look at the water and they had planned on shoving him into the canal and allowing James to drown, but James had refused, and Robert claimed that him refusing to look into the water had angered John and that he had picked James up and thrown him, causing a bump to form on the little boy's head. According to Robert, john withdrew bricks at the baby's face. John said that they had done this as well, but in his telling of events, robert was the main one who wanted to hurt James. He said that Robert told him to throw bricks at the baby, but John said he couldn't bring himself to do it and he just picked up a brick and then threw it to the ground. They both claimed that James had been hit with a long metal rod that had holes in it. They had thrown rocks and batteries at the little boy. They even throw blue paint on him, and that's why John's clothing had ended up with all the blue paint all over it. Investigators had enough. Both boys were pinning it on one another, but the end result and the key players remain the same.
Speaker 1:And therefore on February 20th of 1993, just over one week since James had been taken, the two 10-year-old boys were charged with murder, and two days later the two would appear at the Sefton Magistrate Court and people gathered around out front in between three to 500. These people did not give a single fuck that these kids were 10 years old. They had murdered a baby in cold blood in the worst way possible and they felt as though the boys lost the right to be treated like children when they tortured an innocent two-year-old boy. Some people even had to be arrested due to their determination to harm these boys. John would be accompanied by his father while Robert was there with a social worker, and both boys were denied bail while they awaited their trial. So they would sit incarcerated and wait.
Speaker 1:On November 1st of 1993, the trial for the two boys began. During the trial, john and Robert were going to be known as Child A and Child B to protect their identities because of their ages. One of the main things that they focused on was the fact that these boys had gotten little James, who was still a month away from being three years old, and they had walked with him for two and a half miles. I'm not trying to bring any light to this, but in all seriousness, I truthfully cannot fathom getting one of my kids at that age to walk that far. That in itself must have been a task, and they were getting stopped too.
Speaker 1:People were seeing that James was in distress and that he had an injury on his head, but the boys were able to come up with stories that satisfied these strangers, that James was gonna be just fine. These boys had more than enough time to change their minds. They could have let him go with one of these people that had expressed concern for James. They could have just left him. Like. If they had had just left him, he probably would have been better off. That, coupled with the amount of injuries Baby James suffered he had 42 injuries, 42 on his little body and most of them were to his head. Like this had to take place over an extended period of time, but they didn't stop. Robert denied doing anything to hurt James, but they were able to line up marks on James' face perfectly to the top of Robert's shoe.
Speaker 1:Denise could not bear to be in court during the trial. She was now pregnant and she didn't wanna risk the stress and heartbreak hurting the baby that she was carrying. But she did make a point to be there on the day that the verdicts were read, and she was there to hear that the two boys who had taken the life of her son were guilty in his murder as well as in his abduction. The judge also determined that due to the gravity of their crimes, their names would be released, but upon them coming home from jail they would be granted new identities and anything that they did in prison or afterwards would have been kept sealed. Denise was happy that they would be going away for a long time, but she was sure that these two would have done it again to another child. She felt that in her heart that if they were allowed to carry on they were gonna re-offend. But they were horrified to learn that the boys would only receive sentences of seven years and eight months.
Speaker 1:Not only did they receive such light sentences, the boys were also to stay at separate children's homes. Robert was to stay at Barton Moss and John was put into red banks secured home. These were more vacation homes than they were prisons. It was estimated that it would cost about 3,000 pounds per week to be able to stay there if you were voluntarily staying there. There were jacuzzi, there was a basketball court, therapy sessions to help them understand better what they had done and why it was wrong. They went to school, they had scheduled meal times and the goal was to put the children back into society. So this is as much as I don't think that they should have had these hampered experiences. They did say that the reason for it is because they wanted to release these kids back into society and have to be successful, contributing adults, and in a lot of cases a prison could have had the exact opposite effect on kids.
Speaker 1:As time went on and both boys were being observed regularly. It was noted that Robert would sit at the table and he would always try to be alone. He would suck on his thumb. It was almost kind of as if he had regressed somewhat since he had committed this crime, and the workers who got the chance to speak with the boys would note that it appeared as though John was more disturbed than Robert In the lunch room one day. He and a worker were just joking around and they were kind of throwing silly sarcastic jabs at one another, and the worker said to him you're so weak you couldn't pull the skin off of rice pudding. And John replied oh yeah, bring your baby here and I'll batter it.
Speaker 1:The boys were released in 2001, but their incarceration had also allowed them day passes. John was even allowed once a week to leave the children's home and go play in a soccer league, or a football league, as it's known in the UK. Thankfully, robert Thomas has not had to have any further legal intervention at this time. He was granted a new name and, god willing, he's hopefully maybe making something good out of his life right now. Unfortunately, though, in the case of John, venable Denise was right. In 2010, he was arrested and placed into an adult prison for making and distributing violent child pornography. He was sentenced to two years, and then again, in 2017, john was taken into custody again. This time, it was because he downloaded over a thousand images of child abuse pornography. He was also posing online as a mother who had a child that she was offering to sick fuck pedophiles at a price, and the only decent thing that came out of 2020 was that this garbage disposal of a human being was denied parole in September of 2020.
Speaker 1:After James's murder, denise and Ralph were blessed with baby Michael, who was born nine months after James had been taken. But sadly, as these things often go, the marriage could not survive the loss of little James, and Ralph and Denise ended up separating. Denise would go on to marry a man named Stewart and three months before they married, she gave birth to another son named Thomas, and they had their youngest, whose name is Leon. The boys all said how protective their mother was of them and they were allowed to go on school trips or hang out anywhere that was outside of where she could see them. Michael said that they were allowed to play in the front room or, sorry, in the front garden, but as long as they were right in front of the window where Denise could always have an eye on them, and honestly, yeah, how else could she function? I don't know. They would mention during the holidays that there would always be an empty chair at the dinner table, and it was Denise's goal for James never to feel forgotten. Michael would say that they never thought James would actually be sitting in the chair that they had left out for him. It was mostly symbolic because they felt his presence was with them all the time.
Speaker 1:Michael's last name was originally Bulger, but after his mom married Stewart and he had two brothers whose last name was Fergus, michael legally changed his last name to Fergus as well when he was 13. And now Michael himself has become a father to a little girl named Peyton, and he says that he is now starting to be able to see things through his mother's eyes a little bit clearer. After Denise and Stewart wed, denise wanted something that would live on forever in James's name, and so they started the James Bulger house. And when you go to the page, you'll see a beautiful picture of Denise and James, and she's holding his arms and looks like she's swinging him in the air, and it reads James Bulger will never be forgotten. He was a fun, loving, innocent little boy whose life was so cruelly taken away from him.
Speaker 1:They say that the point of the charity it aims, an objective of the James Bulger Memorial Trust Fund Limited, are to benefit and support young people who are disadvantaged by reason of having become the victims of crime, hatred or bullying. To reward those who are judged to have shown exemplary conduct, making a positive contribution to the welfare of others or society in general. To do so by providing cost-free travel and holiday accommodations for such children and their families, along with a range of other tangible rewards as deemed appropriate by the trustees or their appointed representatives. And to support other organizations benefiting children in similar circumstances, as deemed appropriate by the trustees. So basically, if a kid is having a bit of a rough go, if they're being bullied, if they have certain disadvantages for different reasons, this gives them a place where they can go and they can have like a little vacation. They can just get away from it. Everything will be paid for accommodation, service paid for.
Speaker 1:If you're able to donate or become a volunteer. You can get all of the information that you need at forjamesorg. I donated If you're able to. It's such a good cause and it helps James's name live on. Unfortunately, when I did donate, it was in pounds. I really don't have any idea how many Canadian dollars I spent on it, but it is for a good cause, so I'm happy to do that. And yeah, that's the case, guys, and I'm sorry that that was my first solo case. I hope I did it justice. It was one of the most awful cases and it was a struggle to get through, but I'm here If you made it this far. Thank you so much for listening. And yeah, I promise these solo episodes are only they can only go up, right, I mean, you can't fall off the floor. So it's only going to get better. So that's it for now, guys. Thanks for tuning in. Bye.