Everything Scary
Everything Scary is a podcast that delves into all things spine-chilling. While it primarily focuses on true crime, it also covers anything else that falls under the umbrella of fear. For those listeners who HATE banter, this may not be the pod for you. We try to dial it back, since it does not appeal to everyone. But, it does still get away from us sometimes.
The hosts approach these serious topics with a balance of levity, ensuring it’s never at the expense of the victims. If you enjoy true crime and appreciate a touch of humor, you’ll likely find Everything Scary intriguing. You can listen to it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Additionally, they have an Instagram account called Everything Scary Pod where you can connect with them. If you’re interested in bonus content and exclusive episodes, they also offer a Patreon. Enjoy exploring the eerie world of Everything Scary!
Everything Scary
The Disturbing Puzzle of the McStay Family's Fate
Imagine the horror of discovering an entire family has vanished without a trace. This chilling reality is the focus of our latest episode, where we explore the McStay family disappearance and the eerie chain of events that followed. Unravel the web of tension between Joseph McStay and his business partner, Daniel Kavanaugh, as we delve into their disputes and a mysterious $3,000 payment. But that's just the tip of the iceberg - join us as we investigate other suspects and the heartbreaking discovery of the family's remains.
What could drive someone to confess to such a heinous crime? Our journey into this tragic case reveals the shocking allegations against Dan Kavanaugh, his relationship with Tracy, and her statement to the police about his alleged confession. Furthermore, we examine the strange actions of Chase Merritt, Joseph's last phone contact, who wrote himself $23,000 worth of checks from Joseph's QuickBooks account. This twisted tale is filled with unexpected turns and sinister motives - don't miss it.
In the thrilling conclusion of this haunting episode, we analyze the puzzling evidence and contradictory statements. We discuss the security footage used as evidence and the intriguing testimony from Chase Merritt's sister. As we put the pieces together, prepare to be left with lingering questions and a chilling sense of unease. Join us on this captivating journey into the McStay family disappearance.
If you’re interested in receiving bonus episodes, early release dates, an everything scary sticker and ‘thank you’ as well as a shout out on our regular feed! Please join at Patreon//everythingscarypod571
Welcome to Everything Scary. My name is Lynn and I'm here with my co-host local celebrity, sorry, sorry, international celebrity. Thank you, matt McClain.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello.
Speaker 1:Every Tuesday we release a new episode, mostly true crime, but we've also been known to cover a pandemic, a haunting, super mad, super strong chimpanzee. We'll cover anything and everything scary. Please rate us five stars and join us on Instagram at Everything Scary Pod. Here we go, hello.
Speaker 2:Hello and good morning and how are?
Speaker 1:you Same as I was just a couple minutes ago when we tried to do this for the first time.
Speaker 2:And you know nothing about how to run the board, so you screwed us. Thank you for that. Actually, I shouldn't say that. Maybe you do know something about it.
Speaker 1:You know what? No, you're absolutely within your right. I do not know anything about that board To me. I thought it was just for you to look cool.
Speaker 2:You brought it from home. That's correct.
Speaker 1:There's no wires underneath that thing.
Speaker 2:It's just a flat piece.
Speaker 1:Nothing's plugged in. No, as soon as I leave, you're like under the arm carried your car.
Speaker 2:That's one thing I do notice. Being in radio and being in the audio business is like somebody that's DJing for like TV show or something you'll notice. The cords aren't plugged in or a switcher isn't gone. Yeah, like, and I'm just like oh, that's garbage. I was watching wrestling once and there was they were. It was DJ at a wrestler's wedding, didn't have a power plugged in And I was like, oh my God, this is so fake.
Speaker 2:And then I stopped myself and I'm like, yeah, that's right. Okay, this is the arena that we're in. We're going to suspend disbelief.
Speaker 1:And you're still like, still hold.
Speaker 2:You're clamoring on to the fact that maybe there's a fraction of that.
Speaker 1:That's real, but no, i feel the same way when, like, a serial killer brings their cell phone. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm like huh wrecking the stay.
Speaker 1:Ever heard of getting pinged. So I have the coolest thing that I need to tell you about All right, i am listening. So with our podcast producer company it's called BuzzFro. Okay, they now have this thing that's called a AI co-host. Whoa, and this is your walking papers.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, this is how I find out. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, but do you know what it does? So it's $20 a month.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And I just give them $20. And then I say here's my episode. And they go okay, we're thinking about your episode. And then they generate all of the information so that, like, it's all written up so that I can put it in the episode description and the episode title. Oh wow. So I want to read to you what they did for so the third, oj Simpson.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I did it for part two and part three, so I just I have to read to you what it says. Okay, let me just give me one quick second here, because I am ill prepared.
Speaker 2:Wow, can I tell the story about my t-shirt?
Speaker 1:Yes, please do.
Speaker 2:While you get prepared, i am wearing we are kicking off Pride this month And I am wearing a Rolling Stones pride shirt that I got, so it's a Stones logo with the pride flag in the tongue, and which I love the Stones. Probably my eighth Rolling Stones t-shirt. Wow, i love Pride. Probably my fourth Pride t-shirt. Okay, and I was talking to a friend. He's like awesome. He's like I love representation. I was like which I do too, don't get me wrong. And he's like oh no, what. And I was like, well, i'm kind of using it also as a little bit of bait. And he's like, oh God, what are you doing? Oh, my God.
Speaker 1:That's like it's not like that. Oh, to get you a fella.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what he thought He's like. No well, maybe, why me? But not for that I would like. I like the thought of kind of an older, maybe homophobic, transphobic person who's into the Stones.
Speaker 1:So he's wearing a confederate flag, jean Vest, and that's it. Yes, that is it, got it.
Speaker 2:Ideally chewing tobacco, of course, or smoking tobacco.
Speaker 1:Or just like one of those little like. What are they Like? just little, like a little thing a wheat.
Speaker 2:Yes, A little thing of wheat.
Speaker 1:Just chewing on it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, i like the idea of maybe triggering a homo or a transphobic person with my Rolling Stones officially licensed pride, right, right, and then, ideally, we would get into it and I would be a hero, yep.
Speaker 1:And all of your, your gay friends, would be there. They'd be cheering you on. On the other side, all the hot ladies they're cheering you on. Yes, okay, i see your vision. I don't know if you're in the right country.
Speaker 2:Right Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean your parents do go to Florida a little bit. maybe That is true.
Speaker 2:That is true. We will see, but, yes, that is my vision. Yep. Well, you know what I know? it's not right, by the way, to want to beat people up for any reason. I get it And I'm not a violent person in nature.
Speaker 1:Well, one of your, your co-workers here is. He's gay and he's in love with Shawn Mendes.
Speaker 2:Apparently He is in love with Shawn. Well, shirtless Shawn Mendes.
Speaker 1:Only shirtless Our show.
Speaker 2:he has time for him when he's got a shirt on.
Speaker 1:Well, that makes sense, shawn Mendes. Without a shirt on it, like you, with me, i'm like get out of here, take that shirt off, take that shirt off.
Speaker 2:We're done here, buddy.
Speaker 1:But I hear you all the time giving him trouble about Camila Cabello, because it's so funny, he's so bummed out that they're back together.
Speaker 2:I love it, that is so funny.
Speaker 1:I'm actually really happy that they're back together.
Speaker 2:So am I.
Speaker 1:Bam, bam. When Camila Cabello came out with that song I was like just rip my heart out.
Speaker 2:I was devastated. Yeah, I like him. I mean he's got some mental health issues, So I like that he's back with her.
Speaker 1:Who doesn't?
Speaker 2:That is also true.
Speaker 1:Like I can't put my finger on one of my friends that actually there's a couple other that are fine. Most of them are like me, though, and we're messed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, It's like back in the day there was the stigma around having mental health issues. Now it's the stigma around not having any. It's like, uh, what have you done in your past that you think you're so normal buddy, Or you?
Speaker 1:just drunkled the time you don't realize that you have mental health issues.
Speaker 2:Okay so listen to this. So this is the third episode, okay.
Speaker 1:Discover the masterminds behind the infamous OJ Simpson defense team and the strategies that led to his acquittal in the thrilling conclusion of our three part series.
Speaker 2:Ooh, I like that part, that thrilling conclusion.
Speaker 1:Way better than the stuff I wrote. I'm like hey guys, listen to this shit.
Speaker 2:You're like three slash three. That's how she writes it. That's how you know it's a third part.
Speaker 1:First and foremost, you're being very rude to me. Yes, you knew that, you had to know that. First of all, you're so rude. Okay, listen you'll be captivated by our in-depth exploration of the expertise of each team member, including Johnny Cochran, effley Bailey, barry Sheck, peter Neufeld, alan Dershowitz, robert Shapiro and Sean Holly. How the iconic if the glove doesn't fit, you must quit, became a pivotal moment in the trial. Totally. Why is this AI smarter than anyone? I know This is like Keith Morrison doesn't even talk this well. Does talk this well, keith.
Speaker 2:Morrison ain't that good of a talker. Yeah, i know that, keith Morrison doesn't talk that good.
Speaker 1:We also dive deep into the racial dynamics that played a significant role in the case, taking a closer look at prosecutor Christopher Darden's responsibility for the infamous glove incident and the advice he received from Marsha Clark. Learn about former Los Angeles district attorney Gilbert Garcetti's meeting with our former president, Jimmy Carter, and how OJ enlisted the help of a mock jury to strategize for the trial. That's crazy. First and foremost, I don't even know that I mentioned Gilbert Garcetti in all of our coverage.
Speaker 2:Secondly, prepare to be disappointed after you read that phenomenal description, because that's a lot for us to live off. I think we're rating that three, dash three.
Speaker 1:Three, dash three, get in here. That's what I write, but it's like get in, it's like ear ER.
Speaker 2:You don't want any.
Speaker 1:Come on and get it. Finally, reflect on the lasting impact of the OJ Simpson trial and its intersection with celebrity culture in this gripping episode, from Christopher Darden's role in the glove incident, mark Furman's involvement in the case and Johnny Cochran's powerful closing statement to the controversial aftermath of the not guilty verdict Spoiler alert AI We'll leave you with a newfound understanding of one of the most talked about trials in American history. And then it goes on to say support the show if you're interested in receiving bonus episodes. Oh wow.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Thank you, AI. Wow, That's terrifying actually.
Speaker 2:So it listens to the episode and cranks out a description in minutes. Yeah, that's cool, it's really scary, i do.
Speaker 2:Do you ever play with chat GPT? No, that's the obviously the chat portion of AI. Okay, that's pretty fun. I was like my dad was trying to explain inflation to me And so I was like I went into chat GPT and I was like explain inflation like Hulk Hogan would at a WrestleMania And it's like let me tell you something, brother, when supply opacizes the man And I was like, oh my God, you're kidding me. Like you could have what's a bluey bluey? Who's that thing that you get? It's bluey. Oh my God, i just get death. Stare from mama bear. You could have like bluey. Explain like long division to your kids or something Somebody's got to. I would mind a little refresher either.
Speaker 1:Actually my kid is like she's like mom, do you know all the continents? and that she knows that Australia is the smallest. She knows all the oceans.
Speaker 2:Confidence or consonants.
Speaker 1:You know what, matt? I'm not sure. All right, but I know that AEOU and sometimes lawyer panels.
Speaker 2:You nailed it. Why'd your back? artificial intelligence. You got the natural shit coming after you.
Speaker 1:Whatever, i'm gonna send my daughter up to you. She's seven. Okay, so here's what we're going to do today. We've had a lot of requests for this case. I was going to make it a Patreon only case, but then it turned out to be a little bit longer than we ideally want the Patreon cases to be, and there's a lot that actually goes into this case.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to put it out there on the regular feed and then, see what people's opinions are, because I thought it was just pretty cut and dry. They have made an arrest in this case, but there's a lot of kind of Oh yeah, little consonants. I just say words, hopefully they work out.
Speaker 2:You know that's okay. It's acceptable. Some of us have made a career out of it.
Speaker 1:I listened back on one of the other ones and we were talking about the right to a speedy trial. Oh yeah, you literally just strung together words for like solid two minutes And you're like and all that to say, i don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Yep, it could be a specialist over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're doing the mixed day family disappearance.
Speaker 2:The mixed day family disappearance.
Speaker 1:And at the top here I said so. I really hope everybody loved our OJ coverage because by the time that we were done in the studio we had very numb butts. It was a long day.
Speaker 2:And one of us was pitching that we would do a dual massage train. It was that weird homophobe guy that was like I'm not doing that. Why do you keep?
Speaker 1:asking, it was actually your landscape. Yeah, the landscaper that just kept driving past the window like Let me in there, okay. So the mixed day family consisted of Joseph, mixed day, who was born on November 20th 1969. Summer mixed day, born on December 27th 1966. And they had two young sons, johnny Giuseppe Martelli, mixed day. So he has both of his parents last names.
Speaker 2:Any chance it's some Italian descent. Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yep, johnny Giuseppe. Johnny Giuseppe, he was born on July 9th of 2005 and Joseph Matteo Martelli, mixed day. Just a lot of a lot of it's like JMMMMM It's my name in Italian, matteo.
Speaker 2:Matteo, i think so. That, or Stonat. Italian people are dying laughing right now. What is Stonat? It's like dum-dum, really. Yeah, i used to work for an Italian guy and he'd be like you know, if you were Italian, your name would be Kid Stonat. So I'd always tell that to Italian people. Maybe I was gonna kick out of it.
Speaker 1:It's self deprecating now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it. What is this guy talking about?
Speaker 1:Stogats Oh wow I really don't even know what that means. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:It means perform oral sex on me please. No, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does. Oh, I need to stop yelling at the PTAs Stogats, i think that's what it means I love the fact that it's polite, though Like perform oral sex on me please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, no, it means something very more like a more of a graphic.
Speaker 1:Blow me. Yes, got it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but yeah, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1:Remember, i told you, i know Portuguese.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, what does that mean? Exactly what you just said? Oh nice, okay, good to know. I'll bring that up to PTA meetings.
Speaker 1:First of all, you're gonna get arrested just for being at the PTA meetings.
Speaker 2:That's true When you don't have when you're not a P.
Speaker 1:He can't be at the T.
Speaker 2:Or the A Discriminatory, but one hour.
Speaker 1:I just heard the T and A and I thought I would love it here Is this cool Turns out we're just talking about freezy drives. This is weird.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool. I know how to say suck my dick like nine languages.
Speaker 1:Maybe that'll do you good at the hot dog.
Speaker 2:Remember you were trying to learn all the condiments, That's true, now you can just tell everyone Oh my God, somebody taught me.
Speaker 1:So the family were. They were living in a new home that they just purchased about three months prior to the events that we're about to discuss. This new home was in Fulbright, california, which is just north of San Diego and has a population of about 30,000.
Speaker 2:So not that big. Yeah, nice old town.
Speaker 1:Yep, they lived in an upper middle class home and their home was on avocado Vista Lane. Oh my God. Because it's the avocado capital, capital, capital, is that everything? In Bradford we were the carrot capital We had Willie. Willie, because it was Bradford West Gwilambury and we had Willie the Carrot.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't necessarily wait. You mean, they get produced more carrots than any other town.
Speaker 1:Bradford is actually one of the biggest producers in all of Ontario.
Speaker 2:Well, i know the marsh there is just, yeah, summer smells like pure cow shit. Yeah, that is true, But one of the offshoots of that is all the like they hire like migrant workers from like Mexico and then they settle there and then they make Mexico, canada.
Speaker 1:Yes, you've got the best authentic Mexican restaurants in Bradford. I dropped my kids off at my parents' the other weekend, and then I just went by myself to a Mexican restaurant and sat there and ate a combo platter for one with a margarita Nice. I was living my best life.
Speaker 2:That is your best life, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Some people are ashamed to sit and eat along, not me.
Speaker 1:I'm ashamed to sit and eat with someone else. So, like I said, they just moved here three months prior and they were doing all sorts of renovations on this house. Plus, they had two dogs, a puppy named Digger and an eight year old dog named Bear, as well as their two toddler-aged children. So, as you can probably imagine, their home was absolute chaos, to put it nicely. There's tons of pictures of this house and it was just you're not sure what was supposed to be there and what was just a really big accident. Right, they were redoing their counters, their floors and painting, all while living out of the home. Not to mention, joseph owned his own very successful business called Earth-inspired Products, which is a very unique business. He was designing, building and installing beautiful indoor and outdoor waterfalls. Okay, so like think, if you were to go to like a really fancy hotel, like behind the reception desk, i would say more so at like a resort.
Speaker 2:Okay, i'm thinking like somebody's pond or something.
Speaker 1:They could do that too, but they did indoor ones that would just kind of circulate, yeah, so the whole wall would be a waterfall And, while the business belonged to Joseph, he was more so the guy that would engineer the waterfalls and he had a creative eye. So for his marketing and online presence, he would have a partner whose name was Daniel Kavanaugh And he was responsible for their website and basically anything online, and it was said that Daniel was a genius when it came to anything and everything that had to do with the online world, and that arrangement worked for both of them For the most part. In 2009, daniel had caught wind that Joseph had apparently been doing deals behind his back.
Speaker 1:But Joseph it's his business, right, So I'm unsure of what their arrangement actually meant, but apparently Daniel believed that he was entitled to 50% of the profits from any sales just for being the online presence. This is 2009 too, so I guess I think nowadays, online presence is very Oh for sure.
Speaker 2:It has to be there. It has to be there.
Speaker 1:Exactly So. Later, when the cell phone of Dan Kavanaugh would be analyzed, they would find a bunch of texts that were sent to Joseph And he would say to his partner you treat me like a kid, like I'm dumb or some shit. If you're trying to postpone handling this because you don't like confrontation, it wouldn't be to your benefit, dan would say, and he would threaten things like what is the site worth to you in your future? And he would say the later you respond and deal with this, the worse it's going to be and your site will be gone from the engines. I'm giving you till tomorrow and I'm not fucking around. Whoa, gone from the engines, yeah, hey that's a good line.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Gone from the search engines.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh shit. I thought it was like written on Thomas the Tank.
Speaker 2:Thomas the Tank.
Speaker 1:They're two, they're four, they're six or eight.
Speaker 2:What is that? Shunting trucks and hauling freight.
Speaker 1:You don't know, thomas I don't think so. It's been around since like 1947.
Speaker 2:Really Yeah, wasn't it a big Thomas the Tank engine?
Speaker 1:Are you for real right?
Speaker 2:now, i don't think so.
Speaker 1:I don't think you have to be a big Thomas the Tank engine to. I've been on Thomas himself.
Speaker 2:Oh, what a brand. Before the kids, this was a young Lin, wild and fancy. Free To.
Speaker 1:Oxford. Haven't you ever seen Thomas drive around?
Speaker 2:Oh, that heritage. Yeah, we went on him.
Speaker 1:Nothing spectacular about being on the inside of Thomas. I'll say that Really, no.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Ideally you would say the Tank engine after you say Thomas and said if I wrote Thomas it wasn't anything special. Poor Tom.
Speaker 1:So Joseph could respond by saying you wish the best for me and my family, but you have no problem destroying our livelihood. So all that is to say that things weren't always perfect between the two partners, but that was in 2009. And the story I'm about to tell you takes place in February of 2010. Okay, so on February 4th of 2010, joseph McStay had spoken to his father at about 1039 am. Joseph would end his call with his dad by saying that he would speak with him later because he was running to a business meeting. Little did his father know this would be the last time he would speak with his oldest son, dun dun dun. So in 2010, joseph was 40, summer was 43, johnny was four and Joseph Jr, who they called Chubba, was three.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that's a lot of many issues, you know. It's really. It's so funny that you say that because on one of the podcasts that I listened to, they were talking about this and it was called Obsess with True Crime And Ellen was like and they called him Chubba, and Patrick is her co-host And he's like don't act like that's cute, that's not, that's bullying. She's like they're not calling him Chubby, they're calling him Chubba And he's like you ask a Chubby kid if that makes a world of difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. No, i didn't say you were fat, i said you were fata.
Speaker 1:Still hurts. Yeah, That's adorable Actually. Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, oh, did you say fata? No, i said fata.
Speaker 1:So the family was extremely close. Summer was a real estate agent before having her boys, but she had to quit to become a stay-at-home mom. And Joseph also had his real estate license, but he opened this very successful business and he opted to work at home instead of, you know, opening up a place for him to work outside of the home. He wanted to spend as much time with his kids as possible. Very hands-on, very like camcorder at all of their Oh nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a really good dad. The moustache.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not even really Like just playing on the swings, just being kids. All even slept in the same bed, which sounds like my nightmare.
Speaker 2:Is this a king size bed?
Speaker 1:Like I don't know, but kids, i don't know how they turn into seven feet tall monsters when they're in your bed, like it's just like you've got a foot in your eye And I'm not exactly sure, and they're still hot, breathing on your face. I'm like, how are you bending this way?
Speaker 2:I was putting a foot in my face and a breath in my face. You're breathing on your own foot. Can you feel that?
Speaker 1:So they were very literally always together. The family enjoyed getting out regularly and going for bike rides and playing in local parks, but of course Joseph still had a business to run. So, as hands on of a dad as he was, he was still very much glued to his phone, which I think is just what dads are nowadays.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean waterfalls don't solve themselves.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. My husband is literally like I don't think I've seen his face in the last three years that isn't illuminated by the glow of his phone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, you must have a ton of girls on the side. You're fucked.
Speaker 1:Side chips. If anybody's seen the Camilla memes, like we know that, stay hopeful. One day you can have my child's foot in your face.
Speaker 2:This could all be yours Play your cards right.
Speaker 1:So when no one had heard from him after the fourth, people were slightly concerned because, like I said, he's always on his phone. But when Dan Kavanaugh would get in touch with Joseph's parents, whose names were Susan and Patrick, this was February 9th now, so we're talking, like you know. five days later, susan asked Dan if he would be willing to go by the McStay home and see if he could get eyes on anyone, and so that's what he did. The home was all locked up, but Digger and Bear were in the back and they had a bowl full of like fresh food and water. So that pacified everyone for the time being.
Speaker 2:Oh right, they don't seem odd.
Speaker 1:Well, they're like the dogs are fed Like they've been missing for five days. Obviously somebody's been here within five days. So when they still hadn't made any contact after a few more days had passed, Susan asked her younger son, Michael, if he would go to the house and check. And he did, And again, the dog's food bowls were full. So he decided that he would move the bowls And when he returned the next day, if they had been moved, likely he would know that at least Summer and Joseph had hired someone to take care of the dogs, which would mean that they anticipated being gone. When the family went missing, it happened to be right around the federal holiday, President's Day. So on my uh, the podcast that I was just telling you about, they're so funny And she's like, who didn't even knows? I couldn't, even if you've been mown me a million dollars right now, I couldn't even tell you what month President's Day is. She's like it's just like one of those days where, like, go to open the bank door and you're like, oh fuck, it's.
Speaker 2:President's Day, i think. is it? uh, their presence? is it President's? No, that's Memorial Day is in May. President's Day.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go with February, because that's where we are right now.
Speaker 2:It goes with something, is that what it is? I would assume Okay, oh, i know it coincides with one of our holidays, so maybe it's a Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1:Family Day, family days, it's, it's a. It's the end of February, isn't it? It's different every year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like the last Monday in February, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:I remember the first one was on February 28th, because my dog had puppies.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's always way grosser than you think it's going to be.
Speaker 1:Was sent to pasta is what I like to describe that as.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you are gross. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:We all think of dogs as these, like just magical creatures that just love us and they're so in tuned and everything.
Speaker 2:Watch one of them give birth and then tell me if they're that magical, and then we'll actually watch one of them. clean up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then for like a month afterwards when she just follows her babies around and eats their shit off of the ground, and then you won licking your face.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that was the first family day.
Speaker 1:Nice. So they're all dead now. So that's like really long time ago. Everyone's dead The puppies are gone now too. Yeah, oh, my God. Yeah, it was like I don't know. I was like, i think, pretty close to being like very early twenties teens kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Wow, sadly Awesome. Well, that's the end of the pod. Have a great day everybody.
Speaker 1:I just I bring that in here to get him really depressed and then send them home.
Speaker 2:Yes, my therapist actually loves you. She's sending to me.
Speaker 1:every week She's putting a deck on the back of her house.
Speaker 2:Think about buying Amazon. Oh, jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:So yeah, president's day was happening at that point in time. So Michael figured maybe they just took an extended holiday and jetted off somewhere and paid somebody to take care of the dogs. So he moved those bowls and the next day they had been moved back. So we knew that somebody was for sure attending to these dogs.
Speaker 1:Michael checked the perimeter of the house and while he was able to find an open window, he had to kind of Jimmy it open and he got inside. And what he found in the house was a bit more alarming. Like I said, everything was chaotic But it looked as if the family had just gotten up in the middle of a planned night in and just left because there was groceries still on the table. There was like a carton of eggs still sitting there.
Speaker 2:Oh weird.
Speaker 1:Especially nowadays. Imagine if there was a carton of eggs sitting there. we'd be like there's no way, no one would leave that out. That costs $17.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a million dollars. There was also two small kid sized bowls of popcorn that were sitting on the table. It was hard to tell what was renovating clutter and what was just weird clutter, but the food stuff being left out was certainly strange. So Michael decided what he would do is he would write a letter to the person that Joseph had hired to take care of the dogs and see if he was able to get a little bit more information as to where this family could possibly be.
Speaker 2:How do you write a letter? Oh, like, didn't just leave it in the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll leave it with the dog food. Yeah, i gotcha. So that's what he did. He wrote a letter and he was shocked when the call that he got came from Animal Control, advising him that they were about to seize the dogs because they had received a call from a concerned person saying that the dogs were being left outside night and day recently And the caller didn't believe that they had any food or water, so Animal Control had been coming by to feed the animals and would now be bringing them in. Oh wow, so now Michael was realizing this. This may be a bigger issue. Yeah, he would call the sheriff's office and would advise them that no one had heard from his brother or his family in 11 days now, and just think they're kind of sitting on their hands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all good. Trust your gut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so everybody was really starting to worry. The sheriff's office would tape off the McStay family home and begin to look around. It was hard for the authorities to figure out what was out of place because, like I said, there was everything was out of place. Did you spell on your pride?
Speaker 2:shirt.
Speaker 1:I did, i just wrote coffee on my pride shirt Doesn't make me very proud You know what, now that homophobe is going to have something on you too.
Speaker 2:They won the first round. All right. Homophobes and transphobes.
Speaker 1:This is a war.
Speaker 2:You may have struck first.
Speaker 1:I actually like the guy that you're fighting with his name, like Digger, yeah, or like Russell.
Speaker 2:Lyle. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:Is Lyle a redneck? name?
Speaker 2:I think so Okay, fair enough, oliver.
Speaker 1:Lyle's hit us up, see her, that's right, my bald juice. Everybody named Lyle. Especially you, Menendez Oh yeah, so the sheriffs did find it a little strange that the food products had been left out, but aside from that, there had been no signs of a struggle. And when they say that, it always makes me think of one of my other favorite podcasts. They talk about having a kicking boss vase.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like at the front doorway, so that like if somebody is taking you can just boot this giant vase over and then people will be like, well, the kicking vase is knocked over, so there's clearly something happened. This is a signal. Yeah, like you just booted over really quickly because we were like, if somebody picks me up and puts my arms in like there's going to be no sign of a struggle. Hey, let me write that down.
Speaker 2:And what else would this person have to do? I have a kicking vase.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, yeah. So There's no blood anywhere. All the doors had been locked. There was really no reason to believe that anything nefarious had gone down. Maybe they decided that they just wanted to leave, and that may be unfortunate, but it was in their rights to do so. Sure, But the officers would still obtain the cell records for Joseph to try and assist in finding the family. They would also ask friends, family, neighbors if they knew anything about them being gone for an extended period. They were able to figure out that on the morning of February 4th, joseph had a meeting with the man who he would hire on and off when he needed a welder. They were to meet in Rancho Cucamonga, isn't that in California? You betcha Nice, wow, look at you.
Speaker 2:Geographical genius. I only know that from the movie Next Friday with Ice Cube, because Michael Rappaport mentions the Rancho Cucamonga. What do you say, cracker?
Speaker 1:Killers. Michael Rappaport is a huge Bravo fan.
Speaker 2:He flew himself and bought his own ticket to BravoCon. He's obsessed.
Speaker 1:I always see him on what watch what happens live and I'm like who is this guy?
Speaker 2:And he gets so fired up and pissed off. He gets so involved.
Speaker 1:He's right into the scandal right now, and then that bitch with the earrings.
Speaker 2:Just give them fucking back. What the hell Your husband's a piece of shit like? give them the fucking earrings back. What are you talking about? I love it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so this guy's name was Charles, but he went by Chase Merritt, so Chase for Charles, yeah, i guess so Usually it's Chuck, but okay, or Charlie Yeah.
Speaker 1:But Joseph had told Chase at the end of this meeting that he was just headed home and once they wrap things up and according to cell towers that's exactly what he did Joseph would continue on throughout the day making and taking work calls And after looking at the surveillance camera of one of the McStain neighbors was when they got what would be their next viable hit. At 747 PM the cameras appeared to have picked up the family's white 1996 Azuzu trooper.
Speaker 2:Ooh Damn, is Azuzu still a thing I do not know anything about cars. Oh, okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1:I hope you've asked me what kind of car I drive.
Speaker 2:I say a blue GMC.
Speaker 1:And you've got bike racks on your car. Now too, right, it's a kayak rack. Oh sorry, oh sorry, wow, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a little more depressing this year, as I've had the two racks for the last five and now I've just got the one rack.
Speaker 1:Oh no, i just I'm sorry, i just unlocked something, didn't I, that's okay.
Speaker 2:No, i'm fine. Oh God, not gonna be good. Oh God, it's all crashing down.
Speaker 1:Oh no, She's not Get your therapist on the phone. I need to talk to her real quick.
Speaker 2:She takes a lot of vacation She needs it.
Speaker 1:It's the weirdest thing.
Speaker 2:The only other days that we see each other.
Speaker 1:She's off every Monday. Wow, you take a lot of midweek vacations midweek vacations Dacations. So yeah, the Azuzu Trooper and this car would never come back. Now it should be mentioned that you can't make it. This is an Azuzu, you can't make it anything. You can see it's likely white, it's dusk so it's very hard to make it, and it's the camera's pointed at the neighbor's front porch So it's like it's very it's off-screen that you can see this white cargo by.
Speaker 2:But if you knew that they drew a white Azuzu, you could be like, oh yeah, that's probable, I can see that.
Speaker 1:But you could say that with anything right, sure, so they do. Later on in the trial we'll get into it. But they say like, well, this could be this Chevy trucker, it could be this truck. Everybody in this family's life owned a white vehicle, if some story. So So yeah, the vehicle that left never came back, and the last call that would be made from Joseph would be to the welder Chase that he had met earlier in the day, and that call was placed at 847. So what they suspect was that they left at 747, call went through at 847, so exactly one hour later And this would go straight to Chase's voicemail Sheriff's decided that they needed to run the place for the white Azuzu, and it would come back to them that the vehicle had actually been impounded on February 8th Because it had been abandoned at a strip mall about half a mile away from the Mexican border. Is this ringing any bells for you at all?
Speaker 2:Not, really no.
Speaker 1:No, it was a documentary called Two Shallow Graves.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Just nothing.
Speaker 2:No, okay.
Speaker 1:No, but like it was a Where was this 2010. But the documentary just came out.
Speaker 2:Oh no, i was thinking about that family. Recently that was just over the border. They were killed by the cartels and then the head of the cartel turned in the guys that were in his own cartel.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's nice, Was he a?
Speaker 2:good guy. Well, I mean as good as the head of a cartel could be. Oh, he was the head of the cartel too. Yeah, yeah, And he's like, but the thing is He should just written them up. To have a disciplinary hearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if he's the head like guys, come on just chastise them.
Speaker 2:They don't, oh, hr. No, they beat the crap out of them and tied them up and left them with an apology on the police. I think it was at the police station or somewhere where the police could pick them up and said hey listen, this was unsanctioned, we don't eff with tourists.
Speaker 1:But we did.
Speaker 2:They did. They acted alone, not on behalf of the cartel Gotcha. These are some rogue garbage people amongst a group of garbage people. Yeah they gave them all Gatorade so that they had their electrolytes These guys sound great, to be honest.
Speaker 1:So yeah, this is. It was half a mile away from the Mexican border, but it was 60 miles away from their home.
Speaker 2:Oh interesting.
Speaker 1:So nothing seemed too off about the car, aside from the fact that there was brand new kids' toys in the back that were covered with a blanket. At first, the detective said that they went in and there's just this big white blanket covering like a mound of something in the back.
Speaker 2:And they were very fearful.
Speaker 1:And then they pulled it off and it was like a kid's kitchen and a whole bunch of toys. Something a little strange was that the toys were from Ross, which is a department store.
Speaker 2:You know right, yeah, i know it Ross.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know It's not here, but it's a department store And there was a Ross in the strip mall that the car was left in, but it was determined that the particular Ross store that the toys came from wasn't that one.
Speaker 2:That's weird, it's just a random, just an odd coincidence, yeah.
Speaker 1:So Maybe, yeah, i don't know. But the seats were in the appropriate positions for Joseph and Sam are to have been sitting, and the kids' car seats were very well secured in the back seat, leaving no room for another person to fit in the car. Plus, there was no sign of force entry or struggle, and it was even determined through mall security that the Azuzu did not wind up in the parking lot until the eighth, so the family had been missing for four days before.
Speaker 2:Paul Blart saw the car.
Speaker 1:Paul Blart mall cop. Yes, He wrote his little segue over A little, segue scooter. So at this time and I'm not sure if this has changed in the last 13 years, but in 2010, you could walk or drive into Mexico without using your passport.
Speaker 2:I am sure that it.
Speaker 1:Oh, i don't know. Actually You need it to get back into the States. They won't allow you back in the States without a passport, but you can go right into Mexico without needing anything Do you know how that works for. Canada crossing. I don't think you can walk into Canada, though can you Because you can walk into Mexico.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can walk into Canada. You can walk into the States from Canada.
Speaker 1:Did you listen to the podcast before, when it was me and my sister? Oh, yeah. Did you ever hear about our going into America?
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:All we were trying to do was go to Denny's and then we got into the line to go to America And they were like why are you going into America? And me and Haley were like we don't want to go to America.
Speaker 2:Oh, you wanted to go to the Denny's and Niagara Falls. We just wanted to go to Yeah, the one that was.
Speaker 1:And then we ended up in this long lineup to get into the States.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, And they were like do you have your passports?
Speaker 1:We were like no, we just want a skillet, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my God, We're just looking for a moons over Miami officer.
Speaker 1:It was so embarrassing And then we had to pay to get back into Canada. We're like god damn it, that's our tip money, yeah oh my God, That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Well, a good thing it didn't U-turn, because some people will turn out of the lineup in the border and then they just pull you over.
Speaker 1:Really. No, we didn't. I was too scared to do it, but we were like I'm like, how did I get into this line? And then the guy's like, and he's so serious, oh yeah they do not.
Speaker 2:He's like why are?
Speaker 1:you going into America? I'm like ugh.
Speaker 2:It's obviously not my choice.
Speaker 1:Stop being so mean. I just want eggs.
Speaker 2:You don't have any moons over Miami in the area.
Speaker 1:But yeah, coming back in Canada they were like oh you silly gooses.
Speaker 2:I know this is super local. We have a lot of people who listen from all over the world, but our little town that we record this podcast in, Barry Ontario, is getting a Denny's.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic. When I did my Kingston pentaur, there was a Denny's right beside my hotel and I was like this is like. It couldn't be any better than this for me. I was beside like there was a burrito place, there was an Arby's and then there was a Denny's And I was like I don't know what. So what I did was I had the Arby's. 11 o'clock at night, uber ordered some tacos to the world. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Uber ordered. Yeah, I am dainty I always thought a good idea would be a plaza across the border. So as soon as you cross the border into the States, like the Fort Erie border, it's got every store that Ever known Well, no, just the big ones. Like there's a Trader Joe's there's. well we had, i guess we have Chick-fil-A up here now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, except on Sundays. Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Sundays For Lord's Day. Like all of the, there's a Target there. you know there's maybe a Sauna.
Speaker 1:You know, we had Target for a while.
Speaker 2:Well, we didn't.
Speaker 1:I did, we did, but we didn't. I had Target. I used to work at the dental office in Hillcrest Mall in Richmond Hill And we had a Target there and I was like this first of all, it's chaotic, canadian.
Speaker 2:Target Sucked. Sucked Really, because it was used as a dumping ground for things that didn't sell in the States. They didn't put any effort into growing the Target brand. They didn't have you go into Target in the States. It was completely different.
Speaker 1:Really Than Target in.
Speaker 2:Canada 100% Yeah, because I was like what's the big deal? I know, we got all their trash. That's what it felt like All the great brands, yep, stuff that didn't sell.
Speaker 1:And it was. The prices weren't even that great. I was like there's nothing super exciting about this.
Speaker 2:Nope, and then they all folded like jerks, yeah, yeah, and it's like awesome Way to take zealots down with you in this odd failure, do you?
Speaker 1:remember the weird little diner that was in zealots.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, I need to have like. it just smelled like malt vinegar in there.
Speaker 1:I think zealots is coming back now too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're getting one. We'll find out in the summertime.
Speaker 1:We're like you know what didn't work 20 years ago, Let's bring it back Everybody is so happy with the new zealots And it's like do you remember?
Speaker 2:this store sucked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it really did.
Speaker 2:Zealots. Unless you needed track pants, zealots sucked.
Speaker 1:But before it was like zealots sold all that champion stuff. That was like it was like all the shitty stuff. Now the kids think champions cool.
Speaker 2:This is the greatest brand of all time. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:my husband said Why don't you guys and he's dead serious why don't you guys get in contact with Lulu lemon and see if maybe they'll sponsor the podcast?
Speaker 2:I'm like that's a good idea actually.
Speaker 1:I think Lulu lemon might be doing okay without us, but I know when I think true crime, I think tight pants.
Speaker 2:I don't know about you, but I think spandex true crime. It's a good fit.
Speaker 1:If I could get a discount at Lulu lemons, I would be happier than a pig in shit. I'll tell you that. Can I wear Lulu lemons Do?
Speaker 2:they make Lulu lemons for guys, totally.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, they make your butt look fantastic.
Speaker 2:I don't know, i feel like it would be like filling a Ziploc bag with cottage cheese. I just don't know if it's going to be the greatest look for me.
Speaker 1:It's. No, it's an optical illusion. Every single time you see a girl wearing Lulu's and you're like that is a fine piece of ass. That is not what you were signing on for. Oh really, Lululemon's has some sort of a scientific design that it's just like we're gonna make your butt look fantastic. Don't take us off ever. I think that maybe they should design some sort of a like a crotchless chap, so that you can still like Get down and and dirty but still have your butt look great.
Speaker 1:Okay okay, lululemon, you might need that so yeah. TM.
Speaker 2:That's trademark for me, lululemon bought the stag shop.
Speaker 1:Cross over crotch list look at, there's some people that are like please get on with the story, you stupid woman.
Speaker 2:Not you me well, i have a BD, so I definitely encourage these teachers.
Speaker 1:That's what you better. Not eat the red pride cupcake that I gave you no, i did not.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, go on, you explain the red, your red dye theory. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I just never give my kids red food dye because they go mental, and so I brought Matt some Pride cupcakes, and so there's one red, green, blue, orange, yellow and purple, and I just think that he should not have the red one, because I don't think anything good comes from red food coloring. Everything else is fine, though Go blue. I think I'm gonna go orange, which one blue?
Speaker 2:this one here.
Speaker 1:Are you? Are you coloring? Yeah, i am colorblind. The top one, this guy here.
Speaker 2:Yep jackpot.
Speaker 1:Hey oh blue.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, you continue, would you like?
Speaker 1:one. No, thank you. Okay. So yeah, you didn't need a passport. That's really left off 45 minutes ago before Oh my god, before the Lulu lemon buttless chaps came into play, although this didn't seem to make any sense. Firstly, it was known to her friends and family that summer was actually very afraid of going to Mexico. She'd even downright refused before. Tijuana, sadly, in recent years had been linked to some sex trafficking and violent drug crimes. Friends of the couple had tried to organize a big friends and family get together the year before and summer had said no way, no how not in Mexico.
Speaker 2:No, you don't catch me there.
Speaker 1:No, but she absolutely refused, especially with the small children. And why wouldn't they bring their car if they were going into Mexico?
Speaker 2:They leave it right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like with brand new toys in it. So Joseph and summer were not the type also who would ever. I don't think there's a lot of people who would ever just abandon their dog.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, my dog's an asshole and I wouldn't abandon her. It did not seem to make any sense at all, but nonetheless they were able to comb through the security footage at the border. And Wouldn't you know it, on February 8th, the same day that the Azuzu had been impounded, there was a family of four crossing the border into Mexico. Weird, yes, the footage was grainy, but it was definitely a man with about the same build as Joseph holding the hand of a small child, and Behind them was a woman with dark hair, and she was holding the hand of another small child. It was a promising lead and most were sure that it had to be more than just a coincidence. Joseph's mother said that, well, she could obviously see similarities. She didn't recognize the man to be her son. She said that he didn't carry himself the way that Joseph did, and she also said that Joseph's hair was so curly And like it was like chin length that even when he wore a beanie you could see like all of his hair poking at the bottom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this man did not have that hair. Detective Troy Dugall would get in touch with the National Passport Authority, who would advise that the only mixed day to have a valid passport was Joseph. The children had never had one, and summer had one, but it had expired and she had made no moves to renew it. So on the 23rd of February, interpol which do you know who Interpol is? Yeah, they're like the British. No, they're like the world. Oh, are they? Yeah, they're like the world police.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought they were like Europe's big Investigation.
Speaker 1:No, it's the world. It's an international organization that facilitates worldwide police cooperation and crime control.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought they were their own police department.
Speaker 1:It sounds like a Liaison it's, no, it's the world like imagine you get in trouble with the world police.
Speaker 1:That'd be horrifying to take him in the hang, so they would release a worldwide missing poster of the mixed-day family. Further investigation would find that someone in the mixed-day family had presumably Used a search engine on the home computer to Google what the requirements were needed to access Mexico, and did children need passport center into Mexico? Hmm, so Joseph's brother, michael, was shocked by these searches and they had only been made on January, the 27th, so about a week before the family's disappearance.
Speaker 2:Man, that's any like Google search, that search history stuff, like shit. It feels like it always pops up.
Speaker 1:And it's like you just like.
Speaker 2:What do you think?
Speaker 1:I love it when it's the searches are like if I delete my search history, can cops still trace it.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, yeah like yeah.
Speaker 1:So in April of 2010, authorities would receive a call from a waiter who worked in Baja California. Now, in case you did not know, baja California is in Mexico. Oh, it is not the Baja. And then the state California, it's Baja California in Mexico. Okay, and I did not know that because in some articles I read and it was like Baja California And some articles it was like in Mexico. And then I looked at Baja California And it's like it is a state in Mexico and I was like okay, that's lovely and not confusing at all.
Speaker 1:Especially cuz they're right beside each other. So I got to the bottom of that, don't worry.
Speaker 2:Nice, thank you.
Speaker 1:So the waiter was so certain that he had seen this McStay family because the youngest boy had a very Distinct red birthmark on his forehead. Okay, and he said that this little kid had that exact same birthmark and this family had been looking over a map of Mexico Which they happened to leave behind, being that both summer and Joseph had real estate license, says they had. All their fingerprints were taken because, you know, for security purposes.
Speaker 2:Why is that?
Speaker 1:because I guess if anything goes missing or anything like, you're going into people's homes right?
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, maybe like an open house or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would think that it's just probably safest to have all your stuff on record. But they had their, their fingerprints on record and When they took this map they dusted it for prints and neither of them showed up. Oh Yeah, red herring, that is crazy right.
Speaker 2:All right, i'm into it.
Speaker 1:Just now the rest of it, that's right I was news at 48 minutes.
Speaker 2:I have been not paying attention.
Speaker 1:So playing my.
Speaker 2:Nintendo switch.
Speaker 1:Do you have Nintendo switch?
Speaker 2:No, the last video game platform I owned was, i believe, in Nintendo 64, although I do play a ton of like not games, but like games like cello tear. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I have fooled my children because they have a Nintendo switch, for whatever reason. One day I came out my daughter was trying to kill Bowser on Mario And I was like watching her do it was painful, and so I just took the controller really quickly and I bopped him on the head three times and killed him, and and then I Refused to touch it again.
Speaker 2:So my, i'm like a legendary status.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. And so my kid, my middle son. He's just like mom's, the best at Nintendo ever, like she got through that one level.
Speaker 2:It was pure coincidence.
Speaker 1:I was like Olivia, you can't, i can't watch you do this anymore, so I just did it. And then now he thinks of me, so I can never go back to it. So, six months after the disappearance, their home was about to be foreclosed on and Joseph mother would have to go into their home and gather up all of her son's family's belongings, which had to be absolutely devastating. But three years and eight months later, on November 11th 2013, near Victorville, california, in the Mojave Desert, a Man on a motorbike would stumble across what he thought looked like a human skull.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't like this.
Speaker 1:Nope, authorities were called and in two shallow graves They would discover the skeletal remains of summer Joseph Gianni and Joseph jr. All had been beaten in the head by a mini sledgehammer. Oh my god. And That was also buried in the grave with them. And this is where things get a little hazy.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, can you see?
Speaker 1:all four were in the grave, all four in the grave with the sledgehammer that they had been beaten with. It seemed like there had been no end to the suspect list, but for your sake I'm gonna say that Joseph's brother, michael, was a suspect. He was said to have been talking about his brother in the past tense way before the bodies were ever found. He had also taken a fraudulent loan where he pretended to be the owner of Joseph's company in order to acquire the loan, also before the family had been found. In an interview, he said that he feared waking up to find out that the family had been found in two shallow graves, which is exactly how they were found, and it's an odd number to say, considering that there was four family members.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But he didn't do it. I'll just get that out of the way. Another suspect was summers ex-boyfriend, vic. She had actually been with Vic and living with him when she started to get to know Joseph. This ex of hers was allegedly still in love with summer, at least according to the email that he had written her shortly before the family's Disappearance. In the email He admitted that he would always love her. This same ex of summers was spotted drinking at a bar that was located close to one of Joseph's business offices.
Speaker 1:It was literally right beside it. So maybe all Stalking, a little stalking. And in 2004 he had threatened his neighbor and her daughter, shouting at them that he was ex-military And he was gonna hurt them. But he didn't do it either. Okay, michael McFadden was a man who was now with Joseph's ex-wife. So, okay, joseph's ex was married to Michael. He had a very tumultuous relationship with Joseph and summer He had even threatened Joseph, saying that he needed to muzzle his wife or he would come and do it for him. Wow, yes, he seems like a great guy.
Speaker 2:Gentlemen and boy, you want to talk about respect for women. He checks all the boxes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, he's a dreamboat. Wow. In 2009, summer would call the police on Michael because they had a child living there, and summer suggested that something bad was happening in the home That Joseph's ex-wife shared with Michael McFadden. This guy was not a good guy. He even broke into the home of an ex-girlfriend. He had kicked open her door and beaten her for an hour before she was able to escape Jesus. Joseph's dad, patrick, even went as far to publicly release Michael McFadden's legal records, to which Michael responded through Facebook messenger Saying keep running your mouth about me, loser. I'm about to expose you to the world as a despicable broke loser that you are and, well, this guy does not appear to be, you know he's not great.
Speaker 1:He looks like he's complete garbage, but he didn't do it either. He had an airtight alibi with his work. Some people even believe summer herself was responsible in some way, because it would come out that summer was actually born Virginia Lisa Aranda. She had a few different last names, one being her maiden name, and she would often play around with the order of her first and middle name.
Speaker 1:Okay until she decided she wanted to go a summer and her sister, tracy, said there was nothing strange about this. Tracy said that she was just summer girl. That's what they call their summer. Yeah, and that name suited her as the person that she was. So summer had nothing to do with it either. That will bring us to our two main suspects. One of these individuals was found guilty in the four brutal murders of the mixed-day family. I'm gonna run through some of the evidence that we have on both of these guys And then I would love it if you would tell me who you think is the one that's.
Speaker 1:All right, okay, fun. So first I'm gonna tell you some more about Dan Kavanaugh. So he's the online guy Right who said I will remove you from the engine the engine, the tank or not? Yes, james, james, number five, the shiny red engine. So You remember him from the charming messages that he had sent Joseph earlier. He was the web design guy, he who felt entitled to half of Joseph's profits, which I think is really strange.
Speaker 2:It's a big stretch right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and he was very angry with Joseph for not giving him the money that he believed He was owed.
Speaker 1:Dan also had a really good female friend named Tracy that he had known for ten years, who came into the police office and said that Dan had confessed to his crimes to her. According to her, so, daniel was the one who called Joseph's family and informed them that he had not talked to Joseph for five days. He was also the one to say on the alarm about the family being missing. Well, as it turns out, dan Kavanaugh had gone into Joseph's PayPal on February 6th, two days after the family was missing, and sent himself some money about three thousand dollars, right. Dan also said that the reason Tracy went into the police and said that he had Fessed up all this information to her, because that's what she said. She said that Dan confessed his crimes. He even told her that he had sexually assaulted summer. Dan would say that Tracy had hoped that he would be in a romantic relationship with her and when he turned down her advances, she told him that she was gonna lie to the police to get him into trouble.
Speaker 2:What the?
Speaker 1:hell is going on here. Ten years, like She's just been stewing with these Feelings for ten years and like this, just I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in one of his text rampages to Joseph. Joseph would say to him now I summer and the kids know, quote the real you and What you potentially would do to hurt me and my family. Hmm, dan would respond your site will be gone from the engines. I will make my own phantom site. The later you respond and deal with this, the worst it's gonna be. Dan would say in an interview later that he planned to wait until Joseph had paid back what he owed him And then he was gonna wipe the entire site off of the internet.
Speaker 2:So what was the three grand? for just some of the money that he thought he was owed but he just felt like he was entitled to Yeah okay, so that was one of many payments He was probably gonna make to himself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Oh, yeah, Yeah okay so Dan had a girlfriend in 2010, so they went missing. She would later saying court that he was physically, mentally and emotionally abusive Towards her and that they said are you afraid of Dan Kavanaugh? And she said he makes me uneasy. That's what she said.
Speaker 2:Hmm, so that's a yes. Yes, i'm so afraid I can't say yes, yeah, so I'm gonna say this instead but it means yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:However, she did claim that Dan was with her in Hawaii during the disappearance of the family, so it was said that from like the end of January to the middle of February, if they were in Hawaii, they also would provide photos, but they were electronic photos. Like she emailed the detective photos that were on Facebook from this time, so it's like they could be we're even the original where you can get exactly or anything exactly?
Speaker 2:Is that a credible witness? like if somebody who was like, like, if you're fearful of somebody, that to me would mean like you'd probably bend a little bit to make them happy.
Speaker 1:You would think so right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and not to call in her credibility as a person, but I just mean in this situation, like, would you accept that alibi Or would you not say Hey, i think maybe she's probably trying to get this guy on her good side because she might be a little fearful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, i think they had to kind of take what they could get at this point. Yeah, and they even they were the ones to mention that it was electronic photos, that they couldn't verify that they were from that time right. However, they did not have a hard copy of this picture, and if Dan Really is the computer genius, then who's to say he just didn't change the date in the time Right? we have to take a lot of this with the knowledge that Dan is a computer genius, because there's a lot of things that he could.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, manipulate, manipulate, perfect word. I blatantly just change, yeah Yeah.
Speaker 1:However, there were credit card purchases and sell tower pings that would cooperate with him being in Hawaii. But I watched an interview with this guy and he oh my god so two shallow graves was broken into like six or seven episodes and For the first like five episodes, they couldn't find Dan. And then when they finally did sit down with him, he was sweating and he was like really shifty And like when he was watching Tracy give her statement to the police, he was just like laughing uncontrollably, like almost like putting it on, like he was like look, she's such an idiot, like ha, ha, ha, ha ha, and it was just like it was uncomfortable for me to watch No shit. So he also put out an ad in July of 2011. So the next year after they went missing, where he would say that he was the owner of Joseph's company and he would end up selling the company for the small amount of $20,000.
Speaker 2:You can do that.
Speaker 1:When you're the internet guy, I guess you can.
Speaker 2:Right, of course. You just told me not to forget that. Now, what did I do? First thing I did. How did this happen?
Speaker 1:You're fantasizing about beating up that homophobe again, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I was. that's right.
Speaker 1:Homophobes are going to get a bash and So one of the interviews that I watched was with one of Summer's friends. She's like yeah. And then, like one day, I got a call from like she knew another Fountain guy which apparently the Fountain business is booming. Oh yeah, Everybody knows that.
Speaker 1:And the other guy was like is Joseph McStay selling his business? And she's like, what do you mean? And like this ad had popped up. And so when they gave her, like the paperwork on it as they were interviewing her, she's like, oh my God, like he sold it for $20,000. Like I can't believe it. It's almost like an insult you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he could have gotten his money back, but he chose to, like, make it insulting rather than beneficial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I think when you sell a company it kind of looks like five something years down the road and that's what you value it as Right The prod you know something like that, Somebody who buys and flips companies on the regular. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:I know a thing or two about a thing or, two, let's just say that much. So now we have Chase Merritt, who's the welder. That was the last call that Joseph had made that day Charlie, Charles, Charlie. So he's the welder. Joseph had met with him on February 4th. He also happened to be the last outgoing. I love, love her beating myself. I'm like I am so good at saying these words, I'ma say them again. What'd?
Speaker 1:you say before I said. He's the welder who he had met with Joseph and he was the last outgoing call. And now I'm just reading you that exact same sentence that I just said Well, listen, in your defense I was not paying attention.
Speaker 2:the first time I was fiddling with a pen, So I will put the pen on the counter and I will listen to your third. we'll call it a three-peat. Now, what did Charles do for a living?
Speaker 1:Charles was a welder. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Now just randomly who was the last person that-.
Speaker 1:Joseph's phone called Yeah, it was Chase, you've got to be, shitting me right now. So his DNA was actually found on the steering wheel and the gear shifter of the Azuzu, but it was touch DNA, so that could have meant that he just shook Joseph's hand and then Joseph in turn touched the shifter And then, but Chase would say he had never driven this vehicle.
Speaker 1:However, four years later, his story would change and he would now say he actually did drive it, but it was only like short distances Doesn't count right, right, two from church. So he had actually done it three or four times. He said Chase was actually no stranger to the back of a police car. He had been arrested in 1977, twice in 1979, and in 2001,. All of his charges were always involving burglary.
Speaker 2:Okay, Oh wow. Taste of a finer things in life, do we That's?
Speaker 1:exactly right, And Chase was known to be a gambling addict as well. In regards to the McStave family, Chase would go on CNN and answer some questions And at one point in the interview Chase would say, without a doubt, and that's in quotes, he was the last person who'd see Joseph on February the fourth. This, to Joseph's father, Patrick, was something only the killer could possibly know.
Speaker 2:I know right Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that would be like we leave here today and I'm like for 1000% for sure Matt was the last person he saw. No, Only if you were dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, so I hope everybody's paying attention. Yeah, because this is how it's gonna end for me. I'm gonna be the last person that sees today just so you guys know, then guarantees it And that's guaranteed you can take to the bank.
Speaker 1:Yeah, You can take that. march it all the way into the bank because I guarantee So Chase would also go into Joseph's QuickBooks. So Dan had taken it from PayPal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Chase is going into QuickBooks. I think Joseph maybe was playing it a little bit loose and easy with his passwords.
Speaker 2:I would think so, like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. That's kind of the impression I'm getting.
Speaker 1:And he would write himself checks on February 4th, 5th and 8th. He would write himself checks adding up to $23,000.
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting number.
Speaker 1:He even went as far as to backdate the checks to February the 4th, which When did they go missing The 4th? Okay, so he would then call QuickBooks and he would tell them that he wanted QuickBooks to be offline. So this was like the, you know, second most expensive package, that it was available online And then he could get assistance if he needed to from the QuickBooks people. Yeah, but what he would say is that he wanted it to be offline. He wanted QuickBooks Pro, which is something that you install on your desktop And then only you have access to it. Okay, so the records would still be there, they would just be gone from this.
Speaker 2:The web portion or the cloud.
Speaker 1:Thomas the Tank Engine. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:That engine.
Speaker 1:He said that he wanted all of the records on the QuickBooks end to be expunged, which is where you wash them with a sponge, That is it's when you clear them. I've never heard of a record.
Speaker 2:I've heard of that a record being expunged, but it's usually like a juvie record.
Speaker 1:And they said the guy at QuickBooks said that in the entire like 10 years that he worked there, this was the fourth time he had somebody asked to do something like that. It's not a regular Wow, Like they don't. they usually. would like you to keep some form for record.
Speaker 2:The other two were Donald Trump and Wesley Snipes.
Speaker 1:So Oh no, what did Wesley Snipes do?
Speaker 2:He's good now, but he was in jail for a few years for tax evasion.
Speaker 1:Oh bother.
Speaker 2:Now, you know, with somebody like that, I don't.
Speaker 1:He doesn't. He has people. They fucked up.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm thinking is that he got fucked. But also, i mean, you know that is your money. I do feel you have a certain responsibility to check in and maintain it.
Speaker 1:Okay, i will tell you this is. I'm nowhere near as busy as Wesley Snipes And I don't know anything about my taxes. I just get. We have an accountant. I just give all of my stuff to the accountant and then I just hope for the best. Wow, wow Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm really looking forward to seeing you in Blade Trinity. No, it's not.
Speaker 1:Not jail. I'm going to be in the movies, that's right.
Speaker 2:Wesley Snipes.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, he didn't want anything to be online. So, according to documents, joseph had planned to fire Chase from working with him as he had to loan chase $30,000 to clear up some gambling debt. So this is a very different version than the lunch date that Chase said that they had. Like he was saying, we're working on new business ventures together. You know I'm going to do some welding, love welding, love welding.
Speaker 2:Fire metal. Bring it to me.
Speaker 1:I'm putting it together, yeah, so to me, i consider this to be the most damning piece of evidence is the cell tower that was visible from the spot in the desert where the bodies were found. Chase's cell phone had pinged off of it on February 6th of 2010.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean.
Speaker 1:In the desert, the Mojave Desert. Yeah, i don't know why that makes a difference. I don't know what the Mojave?
Speaker 2:Desert, is That's just fun to say?
Speaker 1:This is fun. It's just good times all around Mojave. So these last two guys have both done things that would make it look in hindsight like they knew that Joseph wasn't coming home, mm-hmm. So who do you think was arrested, chuck? Yeah, yeah, you are Cell phone tower Right-a-mongo.
Speaker 2:Cell phone right-a-mongo and Rancho Cucamango Cell phone tower man, Come on.
Speaker 1:Well, chase has a reason for it, uh-huh. So Chase was arrested on November 5th of 2014. On November 7th of 2014, police would make the announcement that they had Chase in custody And on January 7th of 2019, his trial would begin. Bum, bum, bum. Bum, bum bum, do you do the music for CSI?
Speaker 2:Wow, it's law and order. Oh my god.
Speaker 1:I got a DM about the second. It was one of our patrons. They were gonna say, do you why? I was like yeah sounds about right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sorry, just kidding, It's okay. what's the DM?
Speaker 1:A DM yeah, from one of our patrons, and they have listened to the second OJ episode And there's a part where you're eating powdered donuts. That's not the Pouty D part, oh yeah, yeah, that was really funny. But you're like what time is it, motherfucker?
Speaker 2:Oh my god, is it meeting a donut?
Speaker 1:And she's like we need that on March immediately.
Speaker 2:What time is it motherfucker? Oh my god, everything's scary time.
Speaker 1:It's Pouty D time, oh my god, and you're like. But it is Pride next month, so I'm not ashamed of who I am.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. So, Girl's going to get that Pouty D It's like wanna do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the D's like mrr.
Speaker 2:Fine, we'll do S-E-X. Fine, Stop it. I don't feel like it. I'll do it. I'll do it anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a Pouty D.
Speaker 1:I can't, I can't. You need to stop with the Pouty D stuff, Because I don't picture it like Pouty, like powder. It's like Pouty like you're doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like P-O-U-T-Y. That's how I That's how I in my mind. That is how the character has evolved Humpf, fine, oh, roy, i'll get in there. It's not better wear a raincoat, or maybe it's Pouty D?
Speaker 1:because it can't get it. It's like please, oh.
Speaker 2:I just wanna get buried all up in it. Oh god, oh god.
Speaker 1:Buried, all up in it. All up in it.
Speaker 2:Whoop-a-noodle, dandy That's my great great grandpappy. I used to call it Pouty D, Howdy D.
Speaker 1:So, oh god, okay, back in business. An important part to add is when the trial for Chase started, dan Kavanaugh went into hiding and the defense team was unable to locate him. This trial would go on for five months and the defense attorneys were very literally laughable. Oh, god.
Speaker 1:It was painful to watch. I don't know if this guy's guilty or not, to be perfectly honest, but I do know that he definitely had the right to a new trial, because they were not even on the same page, like their names were Raj Maline and James McGee. First of all, mcgee ended up coming down with a very strange illness Where, according to him, he felt no emotions. That's just called being a sociopathic thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's called being a defense attorney. That's just called passing the bar.
Speaker 1:He said that he would just stare out the window for hours and people would come in and they'd be like, hey, how are you doing today? And he'd be like I don't know What the? This is literally what he was saying. Oh my god. He's like I'm not going to divulge too much of my health problems, but I will say that I had to involve a neurologist. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, he would just stare at the window with no feelings. But what came from that was him leaving the case for the afternoon because he wasn't feeling well, and it turned into a prolonged period of time that left Maline to pick up the slack and go back and start to build relationships with the witnesses that McGee was supposed to be dealing with, and I did watch one part where he's trying to go over some facts with this woman. She's like I feel like we're not meshing. She's like I have built up this relationship with McGee and now you're here.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, good look, lady. Somebody's life hangs in the balance. Yeah, do you think that?
Speaker 1:maybe you can just like let's have a glass of wine. You chill the fuck out for a minute. Yeah, Let's get to know each other. That's right. But Chase asked his attorneys to swab absolutely everything. He wanted the sledgehammer swabbed. He wanted everything to be DNA tested because, according to him, he was confident that his DNA would not be on anything Right because he probably knew that if you wore a certain protective gear, Doesn't matter. He shouldn't have worn the protective gear if he did it, because none of that was done.
Speaker 2:They didn't swab anything. Oh, it doesn't matter Yeah.
Speaker 1:They should have tested the hammer like the sledgehammer's handle, because obviously the killer would have had to hold that right, Yep. And it had grooves in it, which is perfect for holding on to DNA. It makes it very easy to swab, but that wasn't done.
Speaker 2:Why swab a murder weapon?
Speaker 1:Why bother? I mean this. We're just honestly, we're wasting everyone's time.
Speaker 2:Maybe you heard the last episode of the OJ trial that we did and realized that DNA evidence doesn't really factor in. Yeah, that's exactly right, they're like oh, you need to just swab that hammer. We just finished watching the OJ trial. Trust me, you don't need it. You don't need it, you don't need it.
Speaker 1:However, Summer's bra was tested and there was a male DNA profile on the inside of her bra that did not match her husband or Chase Merritt.
Speaker 2:Oh, the inside of her bra.
Speaker 1:The inside of her.
Speaker 2:Now how does that work? Like pop that off, let's test it.
Speaker 1:Maybe just I don't know.
Speaker 2:You're going in like to present it.
Speaker 1:First of all, we need to get, we need to be on YouTube, I think, because Matt just grabbed his own chest and attempted to whip out what wasn't there.
Speaker 2:Presented it. Presentation is what it's all about. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now, the garnishes were a lovely touch, no, The garnishes. Just as a lemon on it. Why did you get the?
Speaker 2:radish. It's not a radish. You should see a doctor, okay.
Speaker 1:So, and because Dan Kavanaugh could not be located, the judge deemed that they could not go over anything to do with Kavanaugh, including the threatening texts. And another blow to Chase was that they were very much allowed to hear all about his earlier crimes.
Speaker 2:That's very rare, i find, and we always talk about, like a guy who's you know beating up a 30 people and he's on trial for beating somebody to death and they're like you know what we're actually going to not include his past in this trial.
Speaker 1:Which is the craziest thing, right, I know It's like well, this guy sexually assaulted seven people and this is a sexual assault case, but he did the other sexual assaults at his house and this was in a field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally So, they're really different.
Speaker 1:Totally Bullshit. No, it's crazy. So the cell phone pinging near the grave site is strange, right? Yes, chase explained that away by saying that his sister lives on the opposite side of the cell tower. So they did show it and it's a triangle. So say the cell tower is here, his sister lived here, grave sites were here, right? I wish you guys could see what I was doing.
Speaker 2:Because it was more of a straight line than a triangle. if I'm being honest, i didn't want to say anything. I was like I don't know if Linda should.
Speaker 1:I don't know shapes, but you know what I will post a picture of the Flatten triangle. The straight line and the garnish on Matt's chest.
Speaker 2:So I'm thinking for example, his cell phone. I guess you don't. You don't get the location, like the south side of the tower. Well, we have an expert, lives in the north.
Speaker 1:We have an expert. All right let's bring them in. Come on in. Oh no, the defense train didn't think that was necessary. Oh, that's good. He was sitting in the audience waiting to be called.
Speaker 2:You're shitting me right now. I swear to God.
Speaker 1:So initially his sister had said that he had not come to her place in about five years, but later, when she testified, she would say that he came to see her regularly. So that didn't look great. Okay, that's nice. They also pulled up security footage that the neighbor had that showed the vehicle leaving the street. The prosecution was now saying that it was not the Azuzu, it was Chase's white utility truck. They would get two forensic analysis to take the stand and they would say conflicting things about what kind of vehicle it was. They hired Dr Lenny Rudin, who initially started working with the prosecution. This is important. So they started working with the prosecution, in the beginning believing that it was Chase's white truck. But after Dr Rudin looked into it further and compared the body size of the truck to the body size of this, he believed that it wasn't Chase's truck, and when the prosecution learned that he was not on their team anymore, they fired him as a witness.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy that you can totally just get the witness that fits your narrative Right Like that. I guess that's the point of it, but that's so fucked up to me.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's so. The prosecution withheld this information from the defense, which did you toot.
Speaker 2:No, no, sorry, No, that was the. that was just the stool. Again, did I feel like we'd said that before? It's a stool moving, which is also a toot, but no, there's a stool.
Speaker 1:I've got my feet on So the prosecution withheld information from the defense which could aid in their argument, which is also called the Brady violation, and it is grounds for a mistrial. Okay, I don't know. Think about trials. Then Chase even had an expert on cell tower pings that would testify that Chase's pings that day were inaccurate, stating that something that he read in the report would actually be impossible to have happened if the data was correct. But of course, the defense did not call him, Even though he sat in court ready to be called. They would later say that there was an FBI agent that got on the stand And he said that he could not say that the cell phone pings would be coming from someone standing at the grave site And there was no clear way to determine where the ping had come from, just that it had been in that general vicinity, which could also include his sister's home. His defense attorney found that statement to be, quote, good enough.
Speaker 2:My God I love it.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of fumbling of this case And on June 10th of 2019, chase Merritt ended up being found guilty of murdering the McStay family, and he was sentenced to death for three out of the four murders and for life for the fourth.
Speaker 2:What's the what? what's?
Speaker 1:I think that if you charge somebody, like if one of the life sentences falls through, you have these other ones to fall back on, and if maybe the death penalty gets removed, then you have life to kind of cover all your grounds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:And he was sentenced to death. California's governor, gavin Newsom, has put a hold on all executions, so for now, chase is spared the death penalty. And do you like, gavin Newsom?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's fine. He's kind of like the Justin Trude ho.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Live and let live, which I like. I appreciate that, but in the state I don't know if they should be running things. But he was quoted saying I will not oversee the execution of any person while I'm governor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got him into Sanctis kind of opposite ends of the government spectrum.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know for COVID they were going kind of head to head news Yeah.
Speaker 1:Chase did try to get a new trial based on his attorneys being incompetent. However, it was denied and Charles Chase and Merritt is sitting on death row in San Quentin State Prison. Oh, san Quentin, yeah, it's a hard-ass prison. And there you have it the McStay family disappearance.
Speaker 2:So, okay, number one I thoroughly believe that he is guilty in this, okay, but I also it's funny, i struggle, Okay, because I think it's it'd be a bullshit waste of time to do a retrial, but I also think he deserves one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he definitely deserves one.
Speaker 2:But then again all that spending and he's just going to be found guilty again because he's just guilty.
Speaker 1:Well, now they have Dan Kavanaugh too, right, so they can also like the fact that they couldn't bring in any of the things that he's done or his threatening messages is to me is. I mean I don't know if it would make a difference, like it's not like Dan Kavanaugh could alter a lot of things. He can't alter the cell phone ping tower, though. I don't think. Right, but who knows, like I, don't know how much people know, It's not.
Speaker 2:I don't know that much.
Speaker 1:I couldn't even alter my report cards when I was a kid, no shit. So that's that, yeah cool.
Speaker 2:Okay, that was a lot of fun, awesome, it's so awesome.
Speaker 1:On to the next one. All right, bye.