"The Black Man Talking Emotions Podcast" Starring Dom L'Amour
"The Black Man Talking Emotions Podcast" Starring Dom L'Amour
Making Peace with Your Path: Cleveland Jones on Music, Self-Worth, and Retirement
"If you weren't so damn nice, you'd be successful." These words, spoken to Dom L’Amour years ago, sparked a profound journey of self-discovery that unfolds throughout this intimate conversation with Cleveland Jones.
For artists navigating the music industry, establishing your value doesn't come with a handbook. Cleveland openly shares the moment someone told him he was "like a hoe that people can pimp out" because he didn't recognize his own worth—a brutal assessment that changed how he viewed himself professionally. Dom echoes this experience, recounting his own struggles with industry professionals who sensed his eagerness to please and exploited it.
As Cleveland approaches his fifties, he candidly discusses facing retirement without traditional financial safety nets, a reality many creative professionals encounter. The conversation takes a fascinating turn when they explore the concept of "choosing your pain" rather than simply setting goals—deciding what sacrifices you're willing to make and which boundaries remain non-negotiable. For Dom, no career opportunity justifies sacrificing family relationships; for Cleveland, maintaining his peace of mind has become paramount.
The beauty of this exchange lies in its remarkable vulnerability. Both men acknowledge the unconventional reality of a performer's life—working when others socialize, facing constant rejection, and learning to protect their creative spirits while building sustainable careers. Their shared wisdom offers a masterclass for artists at any stage: true success comes from honoring your craft, knowing your worth, and staying true to personal values.
Whether you're a musician, creative professional, or simply someone navigating your own path to self-value, this conversation provides both practical wisdom and emotional resonance. Subscribe now to join a community exploring the full spectrum of human experience through the lens of Black men speaking their truths.
Opening quote by Stevie wonder
Opening and Closing Theme song: Produced by Dom L'Amour
Transition Music from Mad Chops Vol. 2 by Mad Keys
and
from Piano Soul Vol.1(Loop Pack) by The Modern Producers Team
Featured song : "Domie" Preformed by Dom L'Amour
Cover art by Studio Mania: Custom Art @studiomania99
Please subscribe to the podcast, and give us a good rating. 5 stars please and thank you. Follow me on @doml_amour on Instagram. Or at
My teacher. She used to jump on me so much. She looked at me one day and was like you know, if you weren't so damn nice, you'd be successful.
Speaker 2:That's it, sir. Can we do this?
Speaker 1:I remember her saying that, yeah, and it was good and it was bad In a sense. Yes, I understand exactly what she's saying, because when you come into a room and like you say you have that rookie feel and everybody's like, oh, he just wants everyone to be nice and have fun and you're nervous about how much money you should be making and you're like I'll do it for you for this much, cause we're cool, like they will take advantage of you, they will do everything they can to low ball you, use you as long as possible and then throw you away. And I heard her. I didn't like how she said it, but I heard her. I didn't like how she said it, but I heard her. It's still something I struggle with.
Speaker 1:Same Ladies and gentlemen and anyone else who is here, my name is Dom Lamour and you are listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast is Don Lamour and you are listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast. On today's episode, I spoke with my good friend and Atlanta vocalist, cleveland Jones, about the music industry, retirement, self-work and so much more. I am what I am. I love me. I don't mean that egotistically. I love that God has allowed me to take whatever it was that I had and to make something out of it.
Speaker 1:Cheers to you and thank you so much for coming on to the Black Men Talking Emotions podcast.
Speaker 2:It's an honor to be here, sir. Thank you so much for coming on to the Black Men Talking Emotions podcast.
Speaker 1:It's an honor to be here, sir. I wanted you here because, like of course, I admire you. I admire the things that you do, I love your voice, very vice versa.
Speaker 2:I want you to know that, yeah, thank you, but like this is not just a give back, you know, but it's true, like I pay attention to that.
Speaker 1:I'm proud and say, okay, they're doing it, I can do this. I just need to put this work in. And this year I feel like I'm at a turning point in my career in Atlanta where people are calling me. People are saying, hey, I heard you can do this. That's something that it takes time.
Speaker 2:That's what you want, though.
Speaker 1:You want that? Yes, but it takes time. It takes so much time of building trust. I mean, people could see that I could do it when I first got here, but that doesn't mean that they would trust me enough to call me and be like, hey, I know you can do it. It takes time. They get to the point and they might not even have me in their brain. They might see me after and be like, oh, I need someone to do this. I should have called you Like. That's happened to me so many times. So now to have people be like I'm calling Dom and Dom is the one who answers says yep, I'll be there, that has been very, very comforting and exciting yes.
Speaker 1:I feel like this year I've done a lot more work on myself internally so that I can personally feel the grateful things, the blessings, understand that what's happening around me is because of hard work and not trying to create another reason why it's happened. To say it all, I just got lucky. I'm not. I'm not doing it anymore. I've been working my butt off to be where I am and I'm starting to see the hard work pay off and my wife is starting to see it and be like oh, you got this gig Cause you went to that dude. You told me you were going to do this and it's working and I'm like that's the thing that I always hope that people can see, especially people I love that invest in me. I want them to see I'm not just out here lollygagging. I promise you, when I say I'm going to sing an open mic, it's because I'm shaking hands, I'm meeting people, I'm creating relationships. I'm trying to build something so that I can continue to grow in my career. Build something so that I can continue to grow in my career.
Speaker 1:Being in that place has been really nice. I don't think I'm at the end of the line at all. I think I'm nowhere near where I could be. But I've really embraced, looking at my scenarios and trying to analyze what I can control and what I can't control, and that has been helpful and it's been helping my headspace keep me clear, and I've been doing a lot of journaling and different things to get myself to that place. So I pose that question to you. I see on Instagram you got a gig here. You're doing this and I know that you'd be out here moving. What are some things that you feel like you're doing? That's kind of helping you right now. Continue to stay on track with your career.
Speaker 2:You know what? That's a really good question. I'm going to give you a little backstory of when it started. So it started back and this is short very early 2001s.
Speaker 2:I started singing at Apache Cafe, which is no longer but that kind of got started and people heard what I did and started asking me to do backgrounds specifically. So I was like oh yeah, sure, get your feet wet, find out how this works for you. And you know it continued to happen. A lot of those were definitely freebies or the ones that you're supposed to get paid, and somebody didn't. You know they walked out the back door or whatever you know, or they just simply just didn't pay you.
Speaker 2:So those things did happen, big lessons learned, but it also taught me a big lesson about what I felt about myself, how I really didn't value myself like I should have. I'm going to share this. This lady said to me one time she says you don't know how good you are. She says you're more like a hoe that people can pimp out. And to hear someone say that to you was daunting. I felt stupid and used and like wow.
Speaker 2:Again, I didn't grow up with this notion that I was amazing or that I was good or that people really were paying attention. I thought that I was just hey getting what you get it and also a bigger thing is people always telling you that you have to pay your dues.
Speaker 1:Yep, I always hear that.
Speaker 2:When I hear pay your dues, I'm thinking, okay, that I got tired of it. I said you know what? I'm going to go study at Berklee College of Music and figure out what's happening. So I went up there, did my work, finished and then I came back to Atlanta, for some reason believing that because I did that. You know you went to Berklee, so therefore people are going to like really respect you now. So you know they already know Don't come to Cleveland. Because you know they already know don't come to Cleveland because you know he has a Berkeley degree and so you know that didn't matter.
Speaker 2:It didn't matter when people think you're easy and also when they don't, when they kind of sense that you don't know your work you can past. You know was one of those things of me not having value for myself. But back to in regards to getting the work and people coming to you now and you know, asking you versus you having to ask for it.
Speaker 1:I stopped. To be honest, it sounds really strange, but I stopped doing the open mics. That doesn't sound strange because I do it more to keep myself like on my toes. I get it, you go in and there's no practice and I can come in and I can have a bad night and it's like, okay, how did I handle that? And then I can have a great one and it's like, how did you do that? So like I do it strictly for myself.
Speaker 1:I don't do it anymore, to me because I know that going to those events sometimes is really it's about them.
Speaker 2:But the other side of it is that it's definitely good for the network and, like you said before, all that's good. So there's no hate, no knocking on it, it's just saying that for me, I had to make a decision. First of all, I was tired of them. To be honest, I was tired of them. I do like them, but I like to go now. I like to go and watch and learn from meet a new singer, or just listen instead of going to sing, so if I'm in the building you know, and it doesn't make me feel like.
Speaker 2:I was in a building, so, oh my gosh, you got to sing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I never I never feel like that.
Speaker 2:ever I never felt like I was honestly that special. So, just being really honest, though, I didn't feel that special that I had to be in this thing and this was the only way.
Speaker 2:I was going to make it. I just decided for myself, just to say stop doing what you don't want to do. And also the power of manifestation. I started having my what I like to call my shower prayers. I tend to get a little spiritual in the shower and I just have these moments and I started really talking to the creator, talking to myself, because people say you shouldn't I do. So call me crazy, I'll stay that way, it's been helping me throughout the years.
Speaker 2:But primarily, I learned to really speak over myself. Speak the things that I want Now have. I gotten where I want to get to, yet Not quite, but I'm closer than I've ever been and, if you think about it, each day is a closer day, no matter how you look at it. Even when it seems like everything's dead, nobody's paying attention. And also stop waiting for someone to discover you.
Speaker 2:That was one of the things that I did back in the day I never forget. I released a single back in 2011 and I got a call from this guy who was known for helping people out, you know, getting their career started from London.
Speaker 3:And so when I got that call, I was like oh my God, I remember I actually kind of cried.
Speaker 2:No, I cried, I cried. It was like oh my God, is this because somebody's finally hearing me? And I remember saying that to him Like wow somebody finally hears me, somebody finally blah, blah, blah, and that also has kind of set me up. That showed my rookie side. Of course, and it really showed that okay, if I want to manipulate this guy, I kind of can if I want to. I felt manipulated in that situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I eventually even signed a contract with him and some people and I had to get out of it, so it wasn't working for me. But again, that was about me not having value of what I had. So what I'm saying is please continue to do all those things. I think what you're doing is very smart. As far as open mics, networking, being seen showing your face, I'm not here to give you advice. I'm just saying I think these are great things. Like you said, it works for you. And again, I did this already, so I didn't walk out. Somebody said, oh God, cleve was amazing, let's hire him. It wasn't like that, it was. Somebody saw me someplace and again I was doing a show, actually with ATL Collective.
Speaker 3:I was in a Stevie Wonder show From that night, back in, I think, 2015,.
Speaker 2:I've been with the same band now for almost eight years. Who saw me that night? That's nice and I've not been with them for eight years. So it works is what I'm saying. It works. Everything has its topsy turvy moments, but overall, if I'm able to stick with you now going into eight years almost, nine years, I guess, that's a good sign that it's not so bad.
Speaker 1:I got two things. I'll jump on with that. Sure, going back to the whole, I feel like you're a whole quote. That's incredible. The quote that I got that was similar to that in the sense of it made me feel like, okay, I guess. But my teacher, she used to jump on me so much. She looked at me one day and was like if you weren't so damn nice, you'd be successful.
Speaker 2:That's it, sir. Can we do this?
Speaker 1:I remember her saying that and it was good and it was bad in a sense. Yes, I understand exactly what she's saying, cause when you come into a room and and, like you said, you have that rookie feel and everybody's like, oh, he just wants everyone to be nice and have fun, and you're nervous about how much money you should be making and you're like, oh, I'll do it for you for this much, cause we're cool, like they will take advantage of you, they will do everything they can to lowball you, yes, use you as long as possible Absolutely, and then throw you away Absolutely. And I heard her. I didn't like how she said it, but I heard her. It's still something I struggle with. Same, I still struggle with the idea of being an asshole or businessman. I don't want to cut anyone's legs off when doing this stuff. I love to do my type of show. I like people to come in and feel like they can escape this bullshit of a world that we live in, and then they can go home and be like. You know what made me feel good today? That guy's smile, that guy's knowledge of the music, that little story he told about the one song just really touched me and I really enjoyed that. That's all I want for people to feel and it's hard for me to be a mean person or direct. I've always struggled with that, but that's something that stayed with me. And another thing I wanted to jump on, because you said you had the moment of feeling manipulated and used. I had the same realization as well, where I stopped auditioning for like TV shows because of for this, like you stopped doing the open mics. For that one I stopped.
Speaker 1:This guy would always call me from LA that he met me singing once and I remember the first time he called me he really sold the story great and he was like I saw you and I feel like you are going to fit perfectly. And I was like he saw me. I can't believe he would take the time to call me and give me an opportunity and look out for me. And he had me audition for American Idol the first time, nice and then. But during the American Idol audition the guy playing piano for like the trials was the guy who usually does piano for me in LA. He was one of my guys. So like I saw him and he was like what are you doing here?
Speaker 1:And that was another moment of understanding, like. He looks at me like I'm a professional already. He's like you're, you're not an amateur. Why are you? This isn't. This is for people who, like, are willing to put in the work. You're putting work in already. Why are you here? Why am I doing something that he doesn't respect? And that was interesting, that that was how that experience went. But years go on and you want more opportunity and people aren't calling. And this guy calls up like hey, I got another show that I think you'd be great on, and it's the Beat the Shazam show. Yeah, and I'm like OK, let's, let's do this audition. And I go through the process and I feel little and I'm told that I'm in the last bunch and then I don't get it. Then he calls me back and he's like okay, you weren't a good fit for that one, but we're going to call keep you in our Rolodex for next year.
Speaker 2:Is he an agent or just is he an agent he?
Speaker 1:is yeah, but he's not my agent. He's just someone who knew me and got my information because I gave him my card and so he called me for another show and then he called me for another show, and then he called me for a third show and after the third time doing it, I got to saying what am I getting out of this? What do I want from this? As a performer? I want to perform and I want to make money and I want to live off of my art. And I'm doing that when I produce my shows. I'm doing that when I go and perform with the wedding band. I'm doing that already.
Speaker 1:Why do I feel like I have to keep doing this? What is this adding to my career? And it wasn't adding anything. It was just making me feel bad about myself. It was making me feel like I was chasing a lottery, like I'm going to win a million dollars if I play on this game, and that isn't something to play with. In my head, in my head, money like even $100,000, that's not something I want to gamble with. I want to work for it and get it.
Speaker 1:And this idea of doing these shows and taking me in the big thing that really turned me off was I'm an actual wedding singer, I'm a performer, I'm someone who do this for a living. And the guy kept telling me you know, we would really like it if you didn't say you were a wedding singer. You said that you sing on the side because that sells to people. You want them to feel like you're just an ordinary guy. I was like but I'm not an ordinary guy, I'm a singer. This is what I do. And so those moments, those two moments, really helped me wake up and understand that I have to evaluate the type of life that I live, because it's not like other people's lives. I don't do the same thing other people do. I'm becoming a morning person, which is something I've always wanted to do.
Speaker 1:But I'm going to go to this show tonight that my friend is doing and the show ends at two o'clock. I'm not going to stay till two o'clock, but that's how long the show goes. And if I was getting paid tonight to go perform in this show, I would be up till two o'clock and it would be normal, because that's what happens in our line of work. I had another friend hey, I want you to come see a concert. I was like I got rehearsal. That's what happens when I'm rehearsing and performing. It's usually when other people are off work and they're about to have dinner and they're like, okay, great, let's do things. And I can't do things with normal people. Usually Saturdays aren't Saturday for me, it's Monday, that's my.
Speaker 1:Saturday yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I know it in. Yes, so it's. It's always this balance of reminding yourself. So a friend the other day told me that she has to remind herself of her purpose when it comes to her craft. And I think that is something that I'm starting to embrace a lot more, because I do something that is very weird.
Speaker 1:And I say weird specifically because the life of a singer is not normal. It is weird. We do weird things. We get in front of people and we beg for their attention for an hour. I know that's not what it is and I know sometimes you don't even have to see it that way, but in a way that's what we do.
Speaker 1:And you come home and you rehearse and I'm singing to myself in the basement and I'm clunking in a piano and I'm like if you didn't know who I was and what I did and you walk past my house, you'd be like the weirdo in there doing it. That's my life and I'm okay with that and I know that's what it is. So I want to continue to keep the light shining in my head for it, because I never want to see that candle go out, where I wake up one day and I'm just like you know where I still can do it, I still have the gift, I still believe in myself as a singer, that I'm good enough, but then I'm like I just don't enjoy this anymore. I don't, I could never do that, and I feel like I have to make the extra effort to work on myself to make sure that I know exactly why I'm doing what I do and why I'm happy doing what I do. You know those things.
Speaker 1:I feel like everybody has those kind of stories where someone said something off the cuff or they had to start letting things go, and I feel like this year I've noticed more and I've spoken about more the things I've had to let go to continue to do what I do and be in a good headspace. What are some things that you can think of off the top of the head that you like Other than open mics? You're like I stopped doing this because this wasn't helping me, this wasn't putting anything extra into my craft.
Speaker 2:I love your fervency to continue, no matter what, like you said, how emotionally it would get you to think about you not actually doing your craft or that you gave up on something. And my story is a little different. I definitely was all in and I'll give it about almost three years ago. I definitely had a give up moment and when I did do that, I was around February 2022. I remember having this moment of saying why do you keep trying?
Speaker 2:That doesn't mean stop singing, and I want to ask you this, actually and I hate this term star, but is that your goal? Is your goal to be the superstar, or what that is Like, well-known throughout the entire world? You know what I'm getting to.
Speaker 1:No, I know what you mean, I read a book, and I always do this when I have to answer a question. I read a book and one of the things that stuck with me is they said stop making goals. Choose the pain that you're willing to go through to achieve what you want to.
Speaker 1:And so, instead of looking at it like, oh, this is my goal, I'm willing to do this, this, this, this and that, and so whatever I'm willing to do, when you say, star, I don't know what I'm willing to give up, to be Like, if you told me I had to stop talking to my family, am I willing to do? No, I love my family too much, so there's stuff that I don't think I'm willing to give up. If I went that high, if I got there, great, that's dope, because that means I'm provided for my family, but that's all that really matters to me is, if my family taken care of, is my wife taken care of? Am I getting those moments that I want in life?
Speaker 1:I know that my life is different, and I do miss a lot of cookouts. I do miss a lot of parties. I do miss a lot of nights at the bar, because I'm singing at weddings in Mississippi, or I'm singing in Nantucket, or I'm performing in Nashville. I'm constantly traveling and singing. I know that. But if I don't have anything to do that night and I have a plan with my wife and then someone calls me and I really want to be with my wife, I'll choose my wife before I do that, and that's the pain that I'm willing to choose. I'm willing to miss out on opportunities for it.
Speaker 1:So to be a star like in my head I just I hear so many negative things Like when you're a star, you lose your privacy. When you're a star, you have to. You know you have to smile when you don't want to smile. You know that's one of my favorite Usher songs. Usher songs. Sometimes I got a smile. When I don't feel like smiling, sit back and ride when I feel like driving. I think about that and I'm like that is something that I love. To go for a long drive, I love to be the person behind the wheel. I love to be able to really show my emotion. If I'm upset, I don't want to pretend like I'm not. I'm going to let you know I'm mad and that's something I'm not willing to give up. I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that and that part speaks volumes about I think, that that says you're going to go even further than you probably even see, and that's because you're not willing to risk whatever fame and fortune that could be for the sake of getting the fame and fortune and dismissing all the things you really love. I love that you would choose your wife and say I'm sticking to this plan because this is important to me, this is right, or that situation, and I'm not going to not, you know, spend this time with her just because some quick money just pop up. Well, the position that I'm in, if quick money pop up, I'm like go ahead and make that quick money Because- it seems to be All right.
Speaker 1:Here's a great example. Again my position though I get what you're saying. Sometimes, like we had a gig, I booked a jam session because I host a jam session now.
Speaker 2:Oh good.
Speaker 1:And I booked it on the day we were supposed to go see Leslie Odom me and my wife.
Speaker 1:And I really wanted to go on that. But in my head I'm like I really want to do this jam session because this is something where I'm building it from the ground myself. I'm creating this myself and this is a foundational thing that I want to be a part of. So that moment I chose doing that over going out with my wife, and my wife got to take one of her good friends and had a bonding night with her that she wouldn't have normally had if I would have been there. So it worked out for myself. But, like in that scenario, I was willing to sacrifice that moment for something that I didn't make money on and that's why I'm saying that like I would do it, especially if it means I'm doing something that I know will benefit my career, and I want to be better in certain scenarios. But there's two things that choose your pain instead of your goals really stuck out to me. But then also setting targets, and the idea is, instead of building goals you don't want to do that because a goal, you do it and you're done you want to set a target because the goal with a target is to shoot through that. So, choosing your pain, understanding exactly what you got to go through to do this and then shooting for a target. Those are the things that I visualize and try to do.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm a realistic person. I've never sat down and fantasized about goofy stuff. If I were to have a baby, I'm not the person sitting there like I'm just. It's just look how cute this baby is. I am thinking about the pain that I'm going to have to go through. What do I? I'm going to have to wake up every night. I have to wake up this. I have to deal with throw up. I don't like picking up poop for my dog. I would hate cleaning poop off of a baby, but that's something that I would be willing to do to be a father.
Speaker 1:So it's like what are the things I'm looking at, all of the things that I'm willing to do, instead of being like the goal is just to have a baby? It's like that can't be your goal. That isn't something you should shoot for, you know. And so I, like I said, I just think I try my best to analyze things realistically and when it comes to being a star, I mean, there's so many valuables that go into doing that, like just doing my album now. I think about how difficult it is that I want to get a full band in the studio and the first album I did, I did that. I had a full band in the studio and I talked to my engineer the other day for my first album and he was like you know what I really liked about that project we did and I'm like, okay, my first album was 10 years ago this year.
Speaker 1:And he was like my favorite thing was, thank you that we all played it live in the studio and I was like what do you mean? He was like, yeah, people don't usually do that and I'm like, wow, in my head I thought that was normal, I thought that was how it was supposed to be, but they're like that's unnatural. And it's unnatural because it costs a lot of money. It's hard to get people on a schedule. At the same time, it's hard to convince people to see the vision that you're creating. But I'm willing to really try because that's how I want it to be done. I don't want people to be like man, I wouldn't even know that this is all computer generated. No, I want them to be like what that's live. I'm like, yeah, that's live, that's not computer generated. And it's going to be hard for money. It's going to be hard for exposure Because, like you said, that star element you think about this discovery thing.
Speaker 1:Someone's going to hear it and they're going to blow it up. Or this influencer is going to post it and it's going to blow up. And it's like the reality of that is people who have huge marketing campaign with money backing it get put in front of more people, absolutely. So I'm going to put this album together and then I have to find a way to raise money, put money together, make money, earn money to push the project out there and hope that people see it when I push it out there, like that's what I have to do. It's not a matter of me doing this, thinking maybe something like I did that on my first album. I'll fully admit that when I was younger I put that album out thinking, okay, this is going to be like my demo when I go to LA. People will hear it and they'll love it and this and this and this and that. But I didn't have enough money to market it, so no one heard it for real, except for my core people.
Speaker 3:And in 2015,.
Speaker 1:People heard more stuff Like I'll put something on YouTube and I'll get like 3000 views on YouTube. Back then Now I do that same thing, I'll get like 200 views. You know, it's a different world and it's hard to sit down as someone who has done their 10,000 hours, as someone who is truly wanted to get themselves to a level where they're confident in saying I'm a professional and I know. Wherever room I go and perform, people will look at me and be like, oh, he's a little different than everyone else, cause he's an actual professional. I want that I've always worked for that and so to be in that position now and understand that it's hard for me to sit down and be like well, you know, I'm still just doing it for the music and this and that. No, when I put this stuff together, I'm trying to build a career, I'm trying to build a living for my life. I want to make sure that I can go, travel and see these places. I want to be able to do all of this. I want to save money. You know, I want to do all of that.
Speaker 1:Cleveland and I met through social media, of course, in a way, but in person it was kind of out of nowhere. I went to this Nat King Cole show they were doing for a candlelight series here in Atlanta and, of course, if I see Nat King Cole, I got to go. That's my guy, so I was curious to see what music the artist would play for that gig and how would they approach the storytelling and and what would they do, because you know a lot of people focus on his Christmas catalog and don't really know that this dude was, you know, one of the best. So we checked out the Mack and Cole show. Adrian and and I went together and of course, cleveland was singing the tunes and I got to see this person that I only saw online in person, do their work, really create something beautiful, and his voice is butter. It's crazy how I feel like there's certain artists who don't have to push too much to create incredible sound, if that makes sense. Like he just could open his mouth and didn't have to take a deep breath, or it was just incredible to see him working. He played a lot of my favorite songs and that was a great place for us to get to actually build a relationship from, because I could see that he had common interests in the music that I loved and he was out here pushing some great stuff to the public, and ever since then we've kept in touch and we've looked out for each other and that's always encouraging.
Speaker 1:So I truly appreciate Cleveland taking the time to come hang out with us here at the Black Men Talking Emotions podcast and, honestly, go look up Cleveland Jones. He's just an incredible vocalist who deserves to be heard by everyone. I know that he said that it's one of those things that you know it happens when it happens, but if I can help in any way, I will, and y'all need to go listen to Cleveland. So once again, thank you to Cleveland for being on the show. I hope you're enjoying all of the stuff that this guy is saying. I really enjoy the way he thinks and the way he pursues his life, so cheers to Cleveland. Moving towards retirement, trying to find a way to create a life after this, do you see yourself as an old man singing at the bar still?
Speaker 2:I honestly don't. I do not. I see myself traveling to all the great places I've always wanted to go. That I'm starting to do now. Turning 50 last year was a thing for me, and it was daunting because I realized I had nothing to stand on. I had no guidance in regards to the future as far as retirement.
Speaker 2:I was thinking like, wow, the point is never hoping that it does, of course, that if the voice decides it doesn't want to do what it used to do or what you thought it would do and it's no longer, what are you standing on? What do? You do Do you go find a nine to five. Are you too old to go find it? What are you doing to move forward with your life and making sure that you're still fine? And I know people say it's not about the finances, but we do need money to move.
Speaker 2:Period, so I'm not going to sit here in front like I don't need it and that I don't want it. I do. I want to do better. So I'm finding other avenues to figure it out, and not musically, because I don't think my future will be based on as far as my financial future will be based on music at all. If it does, that'd be a wonderful surprise. I just don't at all. I personally feel very overlooked a lot because it's like you put out so much.
Speaker 3:And when I say overlook, it's not like I'm looking for people to say, oh my gosh my name is Cleaving.
Speaker 2:Have you not seen me? I can really sing. That's not what I'm saying, it's just like when you think about the time and energy that you've placed in and what it is is hearing from so many people about. This is your season. This is your time.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, and that season hasn't happened.
Speaker 2:Or maybe they're these little mini seasons. I don't know, maybe it was a moment where you made people happy with what you put out, that you gave out.
Speaker 2:And maybe that was a season for them to feel that way about you, but not necessarily your season, and I'm thinking I've learned to calm that down within myself. So that's why I was asking you about the whole star thing, because I no longer push myself into the space and feel like I got to be seen, I got to be the artist. I got it. Well, I am the artist, but I have to be the star.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I should be signed with a major label.
Speaker 2:And why am I not? And you know, you hear from many people why are you not with a major label? I don't understand how come the world has not heard your voice. Well, some kind of way, a good bit heard me, but it still doesn't constitute money. A Grammy doesn't constitute riches.
Speaker 2:So, everybody's all stuck on that stuff and I'm not because I'm thinking, well, it would be nice I'm not crying if I don't get one Again. I will accept it if I get it, just to be clear. But it's just something about it that says if it doesn't, then it doesn't. But I will work towards giving my best, not working towards a Grammy award winning project, because there's some things that won Grammys.
Speaker 3:I don't think should happen.
Speaker 2:But that's just a personal opinion. So you know it's a matter of that. But my focus is really making sure that my health is good, you know, like if your health is your wealth for real, like I'm making sure all these things are aligned. It's just with being very transparent these things are aligned.
Speaker 2:It's just being very transparent. I went to the doctor's office because I had a pain in my side and I'm thinking, okay, is this a sciatic nerve or something's happening? And as soon as I get there, they never even got a chance to check out what I was asking about. When I got there, they put the little heart monitor thing on my finger and my heart was racing.
Speaker 2:I could feel it but, I, didn't know it was all that deep. And she said do you know that you could potentially be threatening a heart attack? I'm thinking excuse me, like I just literally came here just to see what's going on with my side man. And then it turned into something.
Speaker 2:What I'm getting at is that life is really short, not saying I plan to live a long time. Right, plan to live a long time, hopefully we'll live a long time, but I want to live the happiest health of time. But I want to live the happiest, healthiest life I can. And so, yes, the artistic side of me will always be, because I was born an artist. That part of me will be. I think my personality, my energy exudes that anyway to some degree. I sometimes people think I'm a little mysterious. I'm pretty much plain. Plain. I think I'm very regular, but a lot of people don't think I'm regular. And no, I am not out in a lot of places to say make friends, I like people and then I don't at the same time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I like my privacy. I'm a little more introverted, even though we do a lot of extroverted work. So you know it automatically looks like you're a people person and I love, when it's over, to go back into my little cubby hole and chill and go cozy and that's fine. All that to say. I've learned to believe in myself. I've learned to say you are valuable and I'm telling you that you are valued because I've heard your work. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2:Thank you and it is good work and I love and I'm going to speak on this. There was a song that you have to your family. I think you were talking about how Dami yeah yeah yeah. It's very sweet, I know that's your how. You know. It was very endearing to hear you know, especially related to family and what you said earlier about how you are not willing to not talk to your family or, you know, excommunicate your family for the sake of stardom.
Speaker 2:I think that's a beautiful thing that you know. Some things just are off the table, and that's really good.
Speaker 2:And that's about integrity, ethics and how you feel about you and your real passion for people and the passion for people that you really love. I'm the same way, very much the same way, but what I believe is that the power of manifestation I do believe what you're speaking to, existence can be and will come to pass. That's one of my biggest focuses, like when we spoke earlier about the manipulation of people saying one thing and then you kind of feel like you've been dragged a little bit. Then you ask yourself and this is what I'm going back to.
Speaker 2:We allow it.
Speaker 2:I love the part of us that's still willing to find out even if this seems like a repeated thing, because it could be the day that it does happen. I love that willingness that we do put out as artists, as humans, to let it happen. But at the same time I do feel that if your gut is saying this is interesting or something should stop here, or I should stop here, trust that thing and stop and have the power of saying no. I think that's one of the biggest things that nice guys have issues with. I call my. I would say to my friends I said I have a good boy syndrome.
Speaker 3:I just you know, I want to make everybody happy, Are you?
Speaker 2:okay, is everything all right. And even if I'm suffering myself and it's always a surprise for me, just as another transparent moment, so very surprising for me when someone actually offered to help me or do something kind for me I'm just accustomed to being the kind one and doing stuff for people, so when somebody actually takes a moment and look out for me or just thought of me, man, that almost makes me cry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not used to it and that's what a lot of people don't know. So I'm always the giver. I'm a huge giver and sometimes I give too much, and I will say that I want everybody to be happy, even when I'm not how can I fix it?
Speaker 2:I'm a fixer, and that's not one of my most positive things. It's a beautiful thing, but it's also it could take me down, it could depress me, it could take me through a lot of dark places that I don't want to be in. So but I've learned to say okay, take a deep breath and if this is not for you, be okay to release it. And that's still not as easy, but I still. I try my best to change that.
Speaker 2:The older I get, how do I value myself? How do I speak money? But I don't like to talk money when I'm doing a service for someone. I don't want to get the lowest that you can give me when you could have given me better. But I am the one holding myself responsible for not speaking of my value or what I want from this thing. And so when you do get pennies of it, you get upset. Well, cleveland, that's your fault, because you accepted it and you also did the work. If you sent me a demo, you say, hey, cleveland, why don't you do this demo for me? And you know we'll talk about the money later and I'll get excited because I'm now about to do a project my Innocence with music. Right, it's hurtful to my heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's also my fault.
Speaker 1:It's your fault. Yeah, exactly, because if you didn't initiate, okay, we should talk money now and that. But it's society Like it sucks. Saying that it's your fault because it is, but technically in this society I mean every place I've worked they say don't speak about your wages to other people. And the only reason why that is the thing is because they're low balling people. And so you get a position where you know, in some scenarios it isn't okay to talk about your wage because people will especially if you're giving someone a good deal it'll come back and bite you. You know, oh, you gave this dude this deal, why not me?
Speaker 2:And it's like and at that moment, this is what I'm learning to say. Well, my price did change, and that was a moment back then. And my whole thing is also being okay with accepting that this person doesn't want to work with you because you cost too much.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and that's totally fine yeah.
Speaker 2:Find the next person, and that's totally being okay with that. Now, of course, sometimes we could be in dire need, specifically with our line of work. Now, unless you make it some buku cash, you know singing doing what you're doing, I'm not.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm grateful to be having been 13 years as a solo music artist and being able to survive in Atlanta, slash, boston. It has been a very trying but beautiful time and season for me in my life. Again, I didn't think about retirement then. I didn't think about the future, of what could or could not happen. And if something does happen say ie cannot sing or things are canceled, how do you still function, how do you still keep moving financially in your life? So I'm just trying to find those smarter things for myself. Right now I do want to sing at leisure if I so choose, and then just say oh, but I'm in.
Speaker 2:Central Pay right now. I'll talk to you later. Oh, fight, so choose and then just oh, but I'm in central pay right now. I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna go to costa rica for a second, because I can but not realizing that it all, that magic and power, has been sitting in my hands the entire time that's incredible to be in a place where you can see it, because I, like I said, I feel like I'm there too, where I'm, my wife and I'm going to italy this year yes we're finding ways to see different parts of the world.
Speaker 1:We plan ahead. People were like, oh, you got this, and I'm like it's not that we got a lot of money, it's that we planned this two years ago. This isn't something we're doing now. We've been saving and we've been very much taking care of our finances properly, something that I always dreamed of when I was younger, which is a weird thing to dream of as a kid, because I'm like this weirdo. I was there. I keep on saying that, but in the theater department that I went to, they were very negative to us and very upfront about you're going to be broke someday as a performer. It's not easy, and they made sure that we heard that you're never going to have a 401k Like they made sure to say that to us unless you make the effort to save your money or do this.
Speaker 2:You have to create it. You got to create everything.
Speaker 1:And so for me in college I remember hearing that and be like, oh, whatever. And then I remember I started working at, I think, Magianos. That was the first time I ever got a 401k. They were putting parts of my check into this 401k. I'm like, huh, so I'm going to have money because of this restaurant. It's not going to be a lot of money, but I guess I should just keep working here. I should keep doing this, because I can't have this without this restaurant, can I? I stopped working there. I was like, yeah, I don't need that 401k from now. I'm not going to work there for that specifically. That's not enough. I want to be happy, I want to be doing what I'm doing and I've finally gotten myself.
Speaker 1:The pandemic helped me.
Speaker 1:I got paid the most money I ever got paid during the pandemic through unemployment, because in California they had a very, very incredible unemployment boost during the COVID.
Speaker 1:So I was able to pay off debts and I was able to start a savings account, something that I've always dreamed of doing, and people always say the easiest way to do a savings account is have them take the money out. You don't see it and it's happening constantly and you turn around and you realize you got this much money saved and that's the best way to do it, and I used to put money as a bartender, as a server, as always doing something customer service I used to have like dollars in like a shoe box under my bed and that was how I would save money. But this has been so much more beneficial, of course, because I can't, you know, grab this shoebox and spend all that money, and it's been something that's opened my eyes to just how I could have been doing this before, but I wasn't prioritizing this kind of stuff, I wasn't thinking about my future, because I'm young, I'm trying to live now I'm broke.
Speaker 2:You know, A lot of times the prioritizing is about knowledge, right? Yeah, a lot of times the prioritizing is about knowledge. Right, yeah, A lot of times we were not.
Speaker 1:I don't know about your situation, but I was never taught anything about how to save or keep or do whatever.
Speaker 2:And so now here I am, 50 years old, like, oh my gosh, wait a minute, wait, wait a second, I'll be 60 in 10 years. What do you really have to lean on? Suppose you're not saying whatever it is like, what are you doing that has you know? And whatever it is like, what are you doing that has you know? So what I will say for either of us is that the timing is always right.
Speaker 2:Even when it seems too late. The knowledge of knowing and knowing what to do when you do get the knowledge is what matters most. So if you're moving, forward now and luckily you started with my Maggiano's and what you've been saving. You know I started saving. I was like, oh, you know, but here's.
Speaker 3:But then here's my other mentality, that I took that I'm not the most positive thing I would say well, you know we're going to die anyway, we're going to die anyway. It's like what I mean it's like you know.
Speaker 2:You don't know the day, not the hour. Blah, you know, we're told again learning about America and credit too that America is like one of the only places that deals with credit like that.
Speaker 2:It's kind of daunting because you know you probably go to the next country and be able to get a house a little bit easier than you could get it here. It's a lot of, you know, red tape, red tape, red tape, red lining, all that stuff here that a lot of us are, you know, having to deal with, particularly if you're brown people, black or brown or whatever.
Speaker 3:It's just a little bit difficult, more difficult.
Speaker 2:All that to say, I'm still not allowing that knowledge to curtail me from getting where I need to get to Like just because you heard about this, just because someone told you no, or just because someone tried to, you know, belittle you for whatever reason, it doesn't say that that's who you are and that's where you're going to go Like it really has more so the power of how you value you, your personal power. Are you using it? Are you using it against you, or are you not aware of it? And so that's where I am now Saying okay, you want to complain and it's okay to complain.
Speaker 3:I believe in complaining. So people can say I'm country Southern South Carolina and we'll say we ain't nothing to complain about, but that's bullshit to me.
Speaker 2:Excuse my language. Very much so, because I'm thinking this is how I feel today and I'd rather get it out instead of letting it fester Later on down the line. It comes up as an ulcer or whatever. Say what you got to say and if it's not serving you, let it be. But if you need and you feel like it's something that needs to be spoken from the heart, at least hopefully you're coming from a real honest place and hopefully a loving space speak your heart. I'm glad that I'm learning, because there was a point where I knew nothing and I was just thinking okay, I got a gig tomorrow. Oh, the gig got canceled. Then what am I going to do? And now I'm more like okay, do you have something sitting to the side? If nothing else, it's your fault if it's not sitting to the side. So I always remember that. What was my part in this thing that didn't go so well?
Speaker 2:And also what did go well, and that's another thing too. We love to talk about the downside of things so much, but what about the happy stuff that is happening? What about the fact that you created your own open mic or whatever? You're innovative, you started something and people are coming and seeing and it's moving. I don't care how big, small, whatever it is, it's moving. Because a lot of times you walk in with these expectations for everybody, just to say oh yeah, it's you.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go do it right now. Even your best friend sometimes can't make your show.
Speaker 3:Nope.
Speaker 2:You know, and not also hold people to such obligation. That's another thing too.
Speaker 2:I have learned to not say people's not so, you know. So that's why I've learned to toss a whole lot back on me. And even when I grew up, you know, think about how I grew up with my mom, and it was just me, my mother, my sister, and what we didn't have, and I'm thinking, okay, but that was the life I was supposed to have in that moment. What can you change now that you have the knowledge? So that's how I've been operating lately and it's still scary.
Speaker 2:It's still scary, but I'm still moving and grooving along.
Speaker 3:I'm sitting alone at home, just missing all my folks. It's hard to be the person in your family who's moved along.
Speaker 1:There's always distance I miss. Well, here is a exclusive unreleased tune from my next album. Domi cleveland got to listen to the demo and referred to this song, so I thought it'd be dope to let you hear what he was talking about, and I'm really excited about this album. It's gonna be a lot fun, a lot of cool stories about me and the things that I've been through and the people that I love. But, with that being said, until that album is out, you can go listen to all my other streaming music on all streaming platforms. If you want to check me out for more information, go to domlamorecom, where you can get anything and everything. Dom, no More. You know what I love. I love my in-laws.
Speaker 1:I married into a family here in Georgia they're all here now, but they're all from California and I remember I dated a girl in college and her parents didn't want to meet me because I was Black and she was a white girl in college and my wife is, of course, white too. That scared me to a point where I never thought I would get married to a white person because of that, and I only dated black girls for a little bit in LA but that's another story and I was very, very hurt that I couldn't be honest with my family about that girlfriend and so every person I dated after that, if they were a different race, dated Puerto Rican girl. I'm toward it. I dated people and I was so nervous I'm like are your folks cool with black people? That was the first thing that ever ran through my head With that girl.
Speaker 1:I had a dream, maybe two weeks before we broke up, where I dropped off our future child at her parents' house because some way I made it okay and her parents were in our lives at that point and I dropped the kid off. It was this really beautiful mixed girl with huge curly puffs and it was pink barrettes. I still remember exactly the color everything it was all pink and she was so cute and looked just like her and like me and I dropped off my kid and I walked away and it was like a movie, Like I walked away in my dream and I was still there but my, the me had left.
Speaker 1:And so I'm still there and she closes the door and she looks at my daughter and she just went. What am I going to do with this little nappy headed kid? And I remember that moment like it was yesterday and that was the moment I was like I can't even tell my mother that I can't. I haven't met her parents because they don't want to meet me.
Speaker 1:And so I held on to that kind of energy for years. I held on to so much and I was so nervous meeting my wife's family because I didn't know what to expect. And they were everything opposite of that. They were very welcoming and they just wanted their daughter to be happy and they were so happy that I made her happy and they're still very happy that I make her happy happy that I made her happy and they're still very happy that I make her happy. And I never really thought that I would be in a place where I could spend holidays with other people than my other, than my mother and my grandparents or whatever at home. But you know, like New Year's this year was so fun. I felt like I was at home with her family and it's just a long journey of me working on myself and understanding that people are different, but I lucked out in the situation where I met someone with an incredible family and they embraced me. So that's what I'm loving right now my family man.
Speaker 2:That's exciting, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you deserve that. You deserve that, thank you. Okay, you know what I love, right? So, honestly, I mean it's kind of cliche, but it's actually. It's my piece.
Speaker 2:I'm a loner for the most part I like to be to myself. I'm an overthinker, so let me be clear. I try not to push or have any type of stuff on other people. So what I love about my piece is that I get to kind of think and kind of go high and come low in a way. It's weird. Like you said, you're weird, welcome to me. Okay, I do, I take time to think about. I don't know something about solitude, I just find beautiful. I find beauty in it. You know, you get to search a little bit more about yourself.
Speaker 2:Interacting with other people is great as well, I mean, and what I'll do is when I do interact, I can come back and reassess Again. A lot of times I like it more introverted, but doing extroverted work, coming back home and being able to say, okay, now I can wind down and be good to myself, I'm loving it. I love baking as well Like that's a thing for me. I know it sounds, these are just I'm kind of just simple, a little more simple.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong with that I don't have in-laws right now. Yeah, so you know, until further notice, you know we'll find that out. Having my peace of mind and also being solid with myself and being very honest with myself is something that I'm really loving. Calling myself to the red carpet when I say red carpet like, say, if there's something that I should be acknowledging about myself whether again value, or how I responded or reacted to something, how much of it did I allow to soak inside of me and how much of myself did I lose trying to fix or do whatever? I'm loving solitude, quiet and saying you don't have to win everything and you don't have to please everyone. So I'm learning those things and I'm loving that part of me way more than I've ever had. And also self-acceptance is something I'm really loving. So, seeing my entire self, I had so many insecurities. I wanted a new nose when I was 12 years old.
Speaker 2:I wanted the nose job. I was too dark skin, all this stuff. And now, where I am, I'm like man, so loving myself, so love myself when there was a point where I just couldn't see it, you know. But now I see all the beauty, you know, and I'm glad that I finally am there.
Speaker 1:So that's when I'm really loving, and I hope to continue to love on that for the rest of my life All right, we, we've made it to the end of the episode and once again, I appreciate you so much for taking the time to speak to me.
Speaker 1:I always love our talks and this was so great. I just really love hearing your insight and experiences and the things that you are working on, and it inspires me because I feel like I'm in a good place of looking within and trying to make things a little better and look out for myself.
Speaker 1:So thank, you for that I appreciate that At the end of every episode we've talked about everything we want to talk about. We've covered every topic. The last thing I always ask and all I want to know now is how do you feel?
Speaker 2:I feel great, I feel honored. I feel grateful for this moment to have this open space with you. Yeah, no regrets, so I feel great. I feel grateful for this moment to have this open space with you. Yeah, no regrets, so I feel great. How?
Speaker 1:do you feel? I appreciate that. See, that's the first person this season to do that, so I appreciate that. I I feel, I feel like I'm in a place. I'm very I'm just very grateful for the people that I have around me Because, like I said, I've had some negative stuff going on, of course, but then the people around me are very helpful in keeping me in the right headspace.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I just feel grateful because it's just, it's so easy for us to fall down the rabbit hole of negativity.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:It's so easy for us to be consumed with the forest fires in.
Speaker 1:LA were horrible to have all the stuff going on in Gaza. It's horrible the stuff that's going on in Ukraine, the stuff that's going on in Africa. Everything is so negative outside of my space and the people that are around me are so loving and willing to work through things with me. People are excited to come on this show and to talk through things with me, which is something I didn't have for a long time. I didn't have these honest conversations with people. We would sit down and just talk about nonsense, or we'll sit down and we'll be on our phones and we're not even talking to each other. It's very helpful, it's very inspiring to find people who just want to be happy, like me, and don't see me as competition. They see me as another person growing. That's just incredible and I'm feeling real grateful for that. That's awesome. Cheers to you. Cheers to you, sir, for coming out. Thank you so much. Such an honor. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I want to thank you for listening to the black man talking emotions podcast. The opening quote. Credit goes to Steve Lynn Hardaway Morris, aka Stevie wonder, and shout out to Cleveland Follow Cleveland at Cleveland P Jones on Instagram. Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us a good rating. Five stars, please, and thank you. You can support the show by clicking the link at the bottom of the episode description. If you like this episode, you should check out another episode that I did with a good friend, bo Lamar, titled behind the music standing firm in artistry in tackling the live stage with Dom L'Amour and Bo Lamar. It's a great listen. Check it out. Follow me at DOM underscore L-A-M-O-U-R on Instagram or at domlamourcom. I'm Dom L'Amour, much love.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
