Black Men, Texturism, and Identity: Was It Chemicals or Culture?

In this episode of Hair What I’m Saying, we unpack Black men, texturism, and identity through one deeply personal story.

DK shares his journey from high-top fades to S-Curls, chasing a look that felt polished, acceptable, and confident. What started as influence from a cousin turned into years of chemical processing, wave caps, brushing routines, and the legendary “red box.” But when thinning began at 25, the conversation shifted. Was it genetics, chemicals, or something bigger?

We explore how texturism shaped his understanding of “good hair,” how words like “nappy” quietly impacted confidence, and how hair became currency for attention and attraction. From 360 waves in the 90s to marketing that turned insecurity into profit, this episode examines how culture influences the grooming choices Black men make.

College at a predominantly white institution added another layer to his identity. Navigating Blackness, visibility, and presentation raised questions about assimilation and authenticity. Did certain hairstyles feel more acceptable? More professional? More attractive?

We also challenge common myths around hair loss, hats, wave caps, and illusion-based grooming trends, and ask the bigger question behind it all:

When it comes to Black men and chemical processing, was it the chemicals, or was it culture?

This conversation is about more than balding. It’s about identity, masculinity, self-perception, and unlearning what we were taught about “good hair.”

If this episode resonates, follow, share it with someone who’s wrestled with hair and confidence, and leave a review telling us one belief about Black hair you’re ready to retire.

Stay connected with DK by following his socials below:

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: Music And Memory

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome back to Hair What I'm Saying. Today's episode is personal. I'm sitting down with my cousin who chemically processes hair for years with the S curl. And now I believe those decisions may have contributed to him being bald. We're unpacking childhood, confidence, predominantly white spaces, and texturism. How our community defines good hair. Was it just a hairstyle or something deeper? Welcome to the Hair What I'm Saying podcast. I'm your host, Kenitra Stewart. Today we have a very special guest joining us. My relative, my cousin, our uh grandparents, they share the same mom and daddy, but I'm gonna let him do the honors of introducing himself because Austin has really given him a long list of names. So be my guest.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

What's up, everybody? I am DJ DK, your mama's favorite DJ. I am DJ DK, Austin's dancing DJ, uh 2025 Austin Hip Hop DJ of the Year. Also listed as Black Life ATX top 50 most eligible bachelors. So yeah. Y'all heard it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Y'all heard it. Put in your inquiries today. Love it, love it, love it. Welcome to the show. I'm sorry, I'm trying to adjust my back my mind.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

I'm gonna try not to get you canceled.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

I hope you don't get me canceled. I mean the thing just.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

I'ma try not. I'm gonna try not.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

I don't I don't have a filter, so I'm trying to- We all know you don't, you've never had a filter. Since we were kids, you ain't never had a filter.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

I'm gonna try not.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

You know what? Before we get started into the show, I wanted to bring up the fact that I should have known that you was probably gonna do something with music. Because you remember used to burn CDs for us when we was.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

I did. I did. I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Right there in that corner in your room. As soon as you walk in your room, it's like straight right there in that corner. And you were burning CDs.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Burning CDs.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Making money burning CDs.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

That was a good day. The neighborhood. I was selling them joints for five dollars. I was selling five dollars. You give me a list, uh make your CDs for five dollars.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

You sure did. You should. And it had good quality too. Just like you bought that thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

Still in music. That's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Man, if you were burning CDs back then, everybody was still in music.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Yeah, still in music.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

What software were you using?

SPEAKER_04 2:23

I started with Napster.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Napster.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

That's what I started with.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I I heard a lime wire. That's who I was trying, but it was just, it was still charging me though, like 99 cents.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Napster was the OG of it. Oh. I started with Napster, Audio Galaxy, and I ended up on LimeWire. I used to use this thing called Bearish Air.

Guest Intro And Banter

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Bearish Air. I never heard of that one. How long were you burning CDs for? I know I was in the ninth grade, I think, whenever. Or maybe no, I was in the eighth grade.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

I think I bootleg CDs for like 10 years. I bet I did that for like 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

How old were you when you started?

SPEAKER_04 3:02

18.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

18, yeah. That makes sense because yeah, I I I didn't I I was a freshman there.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

I bet. I bet I bootlegged CD for two years. I bet.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Because it was what I liked about Burning CDs back then, you can select whatever songs you want on that CD. You wouldn't have to listen to somebody's whole album if he only liked one or two songs. It's like I this is I can put this on and play it all the way through, and it ain't gonna be no skips.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Yeah. Yeah. I I downloaded the entire Swisha Highs catalog, straight bootleg. Whole catalog, straight bootleg.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Y'all heard that.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

I'm sorry, Michael Watts, but I ripped all of them joints. Every last one of them.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

You sure did, though.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

You sure did.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Still got the bootlegs at the highs.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

You do?

SPEAKER_04 3:48

All that swish house stuff still got all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

What about all the CDs you done burnt? What you done done with them?

SPEAKER_04 3:54

I still got them.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Dying, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

I never got rid of my record collection.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Dying, that's what's up. Do you ever bring out any of that collection? No.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

I converted all that to MP3. Oh, that's on my laptop. I converted all that stuff. All right, bro. All of it on hard drives. Uh-uh. I don't ever pull that stuff out.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Just for nostalgia right now.

CD Hustle And Early DJ Roots

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah, for real. Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and get into the show now, y'all. I just wanted y'all to get a background introduction of who he is before we jump into his journey with S-Curls processing his hair with these chemicals, like we all did back in the day.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Which caused me to not have no hair.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

A lot of people are saying that. That's why the relaxer lawsuit is out right now. Because years of chemically processing our hair straight, some women, they're not able to grow their hair back in certain places. Like they are suffering, you know, from alopecia because of these chemicals. That's the lawsuit. I wouldn't be surprised if y'all would eventually have one.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

But you know, it's like it's 50-50 now, family. You know, all the men on my side of the family, we all bald.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

It is. It could be genetics. It could have been the processor that activated it sooner.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Really think about it. All the women have long hair.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

All the men are bald. So it might be genetics.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

What about Scooter? Scooter ball?

SPEAKER_04 5:22

He's going bald too. And he's never he's never used the kit.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Nah, I don't recall him. He never used a kit.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

So my brother never used the kit. He never used it.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So it might be genetics, like you said.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Yeah, I don't. I think my hair is gonna eventually fall out. But not that. Um skyrocketed, put some gasoline on it. I know that. Because at 25, my shit was coming out. Like the top of the crown. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

That's where it started panning. Okay then. Oh, we're gonna talk about taking a little bit of a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Let's get started with the first question. Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

All right. So I switched it up a little bit. I uh reordered the questions. So I want to start talking about before we start, because I was gonna open up talking about the processor, but I'm gonna start with you as a young boy with your hair, the relationship you had with your hair back then. And then we'll get into talking about the reasons why you processed your hair. All right. So were there hairstyles you wanted but felt like your texture wouldn't allow it?

SPEAKER_04 6:25

No, I just had a I had the hot top fade.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Hot top fade.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

So I had the hot top fade. That's what I had for until my sophomore year of high school.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

And that was your go-to? Like you didn't want another type of hairstyle. What about the texture?

SPEAKER_04 6:41

So my shit was nappy. It was like my shit.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Why nappy?

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Why you napping?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

When you say nappy, you are you coming from a place of negativity, or that's just the culture, you know, of the the nostalgic around the culture?

SPEAKER_04 6:59

If I wake up in the morning, if I don't put no activator none in my hair, I can comb that shit. That shit was bagged.

Pivot To Hair Journey Setup

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Do you believe it was just due to not knowing what to do with your hair, or do you really feel like your texture was unmanageable?

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Not not trained. You know you gotta train your hair. My hair wouldn't train.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Exactly. That's how, that's what I believe more than anything. Not knowing, you know, what products to use, how to use the products, how to manipulate your hair, so it, whatever desire you have for it, it could achieve it.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

It's the hairstyle I was wearing. It wasn't trained at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

It wasn't trained.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

And you was wearing, you said a hot top.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

I ran hot top fade. I ran a hot top fade.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Uh-huh. Was the fade, was it like low, medium, high?

SPEAKER_04 7:44

I had like a medium, medium fade.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Who was cutting your hair at that time?

SPEAKER_04 7:47

Army Johnson, Army Lee. Armale.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, okay, okay. When did you start going to Lessale?

SPEAKER_04 7:53

So I was starting going to Lessale. Um Armalee, he couldn't, he couldn't get me in one day. And I remember it was one summer. We were trying to go to like uh one of Miss Padgett dances. We were trying to go to one of Miss Padgett dances. And I wanted a haircut. And uh I Brian, this time I just just had like a growth spurt.

SPEAKER_06 8:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

So I went to Lessel and um he's gonna keep the hot top fate. And I told her, nah, I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

And I told him, like, nah, I'll just get the number two guard and cut it off.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

So when I cut it off, um, that's when I was like, oh shit, I got waves under this.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

It's like I didn't know, oh damn, I got waves up out of there. But the waves came from me using them kits though.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

You don't believe that was the pattern of your hair?

SPEAKER_04 8:41

Hell no.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

So wh why you believe that?

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Hell no.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Why, why?

Chemicals, Lawsuits, And Genetics

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Who who in my family look at waves like that?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Besides, so it was the the way it looked. Yeah, I but you know, because I feel like different textures can create waves, but I guess what is the desire of the aesthetic that you wanted? Because I do believe, not your texture, but whenever you have a curl pattern or a wave pattern to your hair, you cut it down low if you brush it, put the right products on it, train it with the wave cap, you can achieve waves. They might look, some might look like a deep ocean, and then some might look nice and tiny. So do you believe it because if they cut it down, was that the chemical processor? Because it had to grow out.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

So let me tell you, so when I start using the kit, I wouldn't pick my pick my hair out, I would brush it.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

I would brush it. And so after you and I train the the roots of it, and once I cut it off, it's waves on the hair.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

That's your hair. Yeah. Because you done cut off the relaxer.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

Yeah, so I had to.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I mean not the relaxer, but the processor.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

I had waves up under there.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

So that was your hair. You can't put you can't give the chemical process because you are you cut all the chemical processes.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

I got pictures approved.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Um I had But you had started training your hair though.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Yeah, but I had that beat you back too. I don't know, but you know what beat you back is. What is that? You when you comb it forward and it beat you back.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

So it was rolling back.

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

So how did you maintain the waves? Man, I did you not maintain it? You it was still beating you back, whatever you call it.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

So you know, in that era, the hip hop era then, you were wave caps every day. Like even when I had a hat on, I had a wave cap under.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

Every day.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

That was like what, late mid-90s, 2000s? Yeah, every day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Wave cap every day, all day.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Only time to take it off when I go to school.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Like wave cap every day.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Do you believe the wave cap it also caused some hair loss for some people? Like some black men?

SPEAKER_04 10:45

I think my love for baseball has did.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Because my hair is not getting any oxygen.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah, and then like the constant pulling on, pulling off too.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah, I think that.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Yeah, you did have a lot of baseball caps.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

I always wore baseball caps. Yeah. I just love hats. So I think I think that um just cuts off the oxygen for me. And my grandma used to tell me all the time stop wearing them hats because you're gonna go ball.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Ru used to tell me that.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah, Ruced tell me that. So stop wearing them hats, you're gonna go ball. And I just do not stop wearing hats. I just always kept a baseball cap.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

That was my thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah. It was. It still is.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

I just love hats.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah. What did good hair mean to you as a boy? When you saw hair, what what was good? What did you see good and what did you see since you used the term nappy?

Childhood Hair, Training, And Waves

SPEAKER_04 11:34

I know I I would say my hair was nappy, but I ain't really looking to that good hair and all that. Cause um, cause for me, like I've seen some people where they have different different text, and people say, oh, they got good hair. But when you rub your hand through, that shit kinky than a motherfucker. So kinky is bad hair. No, I'm just talking about it's it's bald up. Like, you know, there's some women that wake up and they don't do shit to their hair. Right. It's just natural to fall in place. Yeah. But you put your hand through it, that shit is like tangled.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Tangled. Yeah. That shit's really tangled. Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

So I just know like what you say is good hair. I don't know. I like women with some hair though.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

I can't do that ball.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

You can't do the ball. But some women look good rocking hair. I know.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

It's just not your preference. Ain't my thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah. But so you, it doesn't matter to you what texture the hair is.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

Nah. I don't care. You short, long, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, but even when I think about, you know, your dating history, I've never seen a one specific type of preference that you've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Nah, I don't have no preference.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

You really don't. You know? When it comes to aesthetics, I will say that.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

You know, I it's light skinned, dark skin, small, tall. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah, that's what, and that's what's coming back to my memory.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Now y'all hear this, Austin? Because Austin got it bad thinking only they light-skinned women.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

That's not true because I mean, may her soul rest in peace, but Coco.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Yeah, Coco's thick. Thick and dark, real dark.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah, so that's not true.

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Yeah, no, I know for me it ain't.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Yeah, that's not true at all.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Well, people think my ex-fiance is my ex-wife.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

No, but your ex-fiance your ex-ex-fiance is your what not?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

So my I have an ex-fiance and ex-wife.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Well, no, okay, not what about the ex-fiance?

SPEAKER_04 13:22

Ex-fiance light skinned. Yes. Yeah, she's light skinned.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

But your ex-wife.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

My ex-wife is not light-skinned.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Not at all.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

But they think that's Gigi mama, because Gigi's light-skinned. Um I keep telling them my daughter looks like my mama.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Listen.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

The same face. Like, look just like my mama. That makes no sense how much Gigi looked like Eloise.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Look just like my mama. Oh God. Look just like my mama, for real.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

She had Gigi herself.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

That is so crazy. Yeah, she looked just like her grandma. She looked just like her grandma. How old is Gigi now? Like 13? 14. 14. Oh, they grow themselves. Oh my goodness. But yeah, and then your mom is light-skinned, so yeah, Gigi took like literally right after her.

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

But what people don't understand, this is what be killing me about the black community and colorism. They think two dark people have a baby together, then they cannot produce a lighter-skinned baby.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Genetics. You don't know who that baby's gonna take. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Magic darker than me and Dominic. Induces lighter than me and Dominic. Yeah. So it's genetics. It's genetics. That's just how it happens. It can happen that way.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

You just do not know.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

That's what it is. You know?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Were there young black men you saw getting more attention because of their hair when you was growing up?

SPEAKER_04 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

You did?

SPEAKER_04 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

You don't have to name drop, but what would they say?

SPEAKER_04 14:50

I I I'm my homeboy Taj. My homeboy, he had it.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Richards.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

Yeah, Taj Richards.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Yeah. He he used kits. But that shit was laid.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

But that one, his nap of hair. Hell no. So what were people saying about his hair?

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Oh, like he had the wave pattern. He had that thick wave pattern.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Was it because his hair was thicker?

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Yeah, his hair was thicker.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

But you know, you know how to who had the best waves in Jones Road, though.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I don't.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Randy Carr.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Hey, D.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

I ain't nobody had no waves like Rennie Carr. Renic Carr had waves. He was a OG.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Like they were deep.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

He had four waves in his head.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

They were deep waves.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

He like he almost he had so much hair, though. It looked like he had waves in his mustache. He just had a lot of hair.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

That man had the best waves in Jones. He sure did. Like hands down.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

And he was an OG, too. He was like the daddy.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah, hands down. Like he was a father figure to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Yeah, he was. He sure.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Like he didn't play no game.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

But he had the best, like everybody, man, male, female, complimented his hair.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yeah, he did. He had some. And that was his texture. That wasn't, those weren't kids that he was using, from my understanding.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Him, uh, him, Todd, Fred Wembley. Fred Wembley. Fred Willard. He kept a nice wave pattern.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

What was it about waves? Like, why the goal for black young men growing up? Why were waves the ideal aesthetic for their hairstyle?

Hats, Wave Caps, And Hair Loss

SPEAKER_04 16:25

The dark-skinned dudes were waves. You know, all the light-skinned dudes thought they were bone-thug and homie. So they were wearing braids. You know, all them light-skinned niggas thought they were bone-thug and homie.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

No, they were wearing braids.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Yellow boy. Yellow boy rock. I don't know. They didn't wear, they didn't wear waves.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

With Larry Cooper. I'm really trying to think back and like who was light-skinned with waves?

SPEAKER_04 16:58

Ain't nobody. They all had long hair.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

So that's interesting. So during the the 90s, light-skinned men in our hometown were wearing, or young men, they were wearing braids.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

It was just the fashion of that era.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Why would a why was where where did inspiration come from come from for the dark-skinned men if they were wearing waves? Who was wearing waves back then?

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Shit, I can't tell you. It's just like it just started.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Mm-hmm. I do, even still today, you see more darker uh skin complexion black men wearing waves.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Yeah, it's just one of them things.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

But you gotta know why. Why? I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

I j I just know I cut my hair off and women loved it, and I just never grew it back.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

I can say that that was a thing for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

So yours was to appeal to the women.

SPEAKER_04 17:47

Shit. Everything I do is appeal to women. I don't do shit for me. Shit. Look, I go, listen. I know who runs the world. Shit, I ain't crazy.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

I I hear that. I hear that.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Shit, man. Grandma ain't ready, no food.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Listen, that was a question I had to ask you, but now we know the answer to that.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

Shit.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Ooh. Did you ever feel like your hair made you less attractive before you started processing it?

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Nah.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Now you know me. I was I used to be an arrogant son bitch. Like back in the day. I was arrogant as fuck back then. I didn't care if nobody think about me. So no. Not as far as my appearance know.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Yeah. But I feel like for black men, it is a little different for them when it comes to hair. They don't think it's their I'm not gonna say they don't use it as their identity. But they don't, it's not like a make or break as far as uh how good looking you are.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

No, but I know a lot of men are self-conscious about it.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Really?

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Like they will not sh they they bald, but they don't want nobody to know they're bald.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

So they what the hair you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

They work in units and hats all the time. Like I don't care. Yeah, I'm bald. I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Like I just like hats, but I don't mind showing that I'm bald.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

But I know dudes, no, they they're real insecure about that.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Why won't they opt for like a tr hair transplant then?

SPEAKER_04 19:20

That costs money.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

It do, but I guess to gain the confidence back, why not?

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Man, that that is that really gonna gain your confidence back?

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Not if it's some internal work you need to do.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

I don't think it because when I don't wear a hat, I get more compliments than when I do have a hat on.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Well, I I know like Mars Chestnut, Bars Kojo. Who else out there uh during a nine to Tupac? You know, they were bald. And women love Tupac, Bars Cojo, and Mars Chestnut. Yeah, they do. So it's interesting for those men to not see that being bald should be some insecurity. And you know, I guess, well, I'm speaking more if you appealing to the women. Maybe for them themselves, you know, it makes them insecure. But for women, that's not necessarily a deal breaker.

SPEAKER_04 20:16

That's not. That's not. And then being bald, you know, it's it's how you it's how you rock it.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

It is.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

That's definitely how you rock it. Like if you ain't rocking with no swag, you it ain't gonna come off like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Confidence too.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Like, I if I put on certain outfits, I know I'm not wearing a hat today.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Right. Because it don't go.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

No, you don't go. I'm not wearing a hat today. Yeah. So then when I do pop out, and I I there's one thing I do hate about it though. Well Women touching my head bothers me. That bothers the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Tell me why. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

People hands on me that I don't know irks the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

So as long as you know them, you good.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

As long as I know you, I'm good, but just random goddamn people.

SPEAKER_02 20:57

So where does happen? Like in the DJ booth?

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Um no. I it happened at Tate, I was at Tater Q. Um I was with I was with my ex.

SPEAKER_06 21:07

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

We walk in there and the DJ announces, damn, DK ain't got no hat on. Every woman in there turned around. And I just blushed and like, oh man, this is crazy. While I'm walking to the DJ booth to dap him up, women are touching my head. Like they're literally touching my head.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

That's a lot of different hats.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

And I was like, what the fuck is going on? So then we sit down and eat. There's a lady at the end of the table. I could see she's staring at me. I can see through my peripheral, she's staring at me.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

She gets up and says, I just can't help it. Everybody else did it. I just have to touch your head. And she touched my head. I I told her, Let's get it, let's get the hell out of here. I can't touch this no more.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

I wonder if that's similar to how we experience people random people wanting to touch our hair because it's like curly.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

White people love touching our hair.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

White women.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Yeah, specifically.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Yeah, white women love touching our hands.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Mm-hmm. So I wonder if the experience is similar.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Yeah. Kind of gave me anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Right, right, right, right. And it's it's not um sanitary for one.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

I just don't my skin already sensitive.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

And uh like all these random ass hands touching me. Like I don't mm mm.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

What about invading your personal space?

SPEAKER_04 22:26

Yeah, I hate that too. Yeah. I definitely hate that.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah. And these were black women.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Wow. I'm j I'm just, to me, that's really interesting because we know how it feels. I don't know if it's because, oh, it's a black man, I'm a black woman, I can touch his head, you know, when that's not necessarily true.

Why Waves Ruled And Who Inspired Them

SPEAKER_04 22:46

I think it's I think it's one of them things where I carry myself in the public. Because I know I'm a DJ and I carry myself a certain way. They think that's how I am all the time.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Like that ain't who I am.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

That's a That's a persona.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

That's a persona, right. Separate from who I ain't.

SPEAKER_04 23:03

I'm not DJing. I am not the dude. I'm David King when I'm not DJing. When I'm DJing, that's DK.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

Yeah, we we can have a good time, we can kick it, whatever. When I'm David King, don't come at me with this crap.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah. Yeah, that would have aggravated me too. I'm just trying to get to the booth and y'all all touching my head. Oh, because he put some attention on it.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

But you you know what else is crazy about when I don't wear a hat? You know how many people don't even fucking recognize me?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I can believe that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

It it always shocks the shit out of me how many how many people I'm sitting by a lady with no hat on, talking to her. I know.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

She didn't even know who I know people. Okay, wait a minute. I I was thinking like you randomly walking by an H E B, but y'all having a conversation with me. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

And this lady just gonna say, so how long you been in Austin? And I just look at her, like you like, come on, like and she's like, Oh, I didn't know that was you. And she's and she told me I never seen you without a hat.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

So when you DJ and you have on your hat.

SPEAKER_04 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yeah, why?

SPEAKER_04 24:12

Fit the Here's my point of view on it. I'm not ready to go and I'm not ready to par unless I got my hat on.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Gotcha. Okay. So it's a part of your persona as a DJ. Yeah. That's why I was gonna say it fit, but I I was trying to wait on you to answer because I didn't want to answer for you when I'm asking the question. But I was gonna ask you, um, do you feel like it fits the environment, you know, the element that you are in? So that's why you probably are wearing a hat, which I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Yeah, and people are always, oh man, you a Yankees fan? I'm not a damn Yankees fan.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

So why you wear the hat?

SPEAKER_04 24:52

I just like the logo.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

The logo is nice.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

I just like the logo. I I have so my ex-wife used to get mad because she said, you buy the same hat over and over.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Is it the same color though?

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Back then it was. The same navy blue hat.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

So it was loo it was losing the shape.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

They get dirty, chunk it, like it's gonna be a little bit. Absolutely. And she gets so mad. You keep buying the same old hat.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

It's like just my favorite hat.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Absolutely. I would do the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

It's my favorite hat. But now, how so many Yankee hats?

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah. Any color now.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

So what was the color back then?

SPEAKER_04 25:23

The original, the OG, Navy blue.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

The blue, the blue.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

The OG one.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

The OG one.

Confidence, Image, And Attention

SPEAKER_02 25:28

And I really almost forgot about that until it just dawned on me. And I'm like, blue, blue.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

The OG one. It's just it's still my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah. Yeah, that blue, that blue hat, a lot of people were rocking that hat back then, though. It was it was like a theme. Like it, it that's just what it was.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

I think I first started wearing it when I became a Jay-Z fan.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

I became a Jay-Z fan and I just never start wearing it.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Just became like, okay, this is my thing. Yeah. Which is crazy being from Louisiana. I'm wearing Yankee hats.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

I don't know if I can say that. You you beat a lot of people who are from a certain state, but they still have a team that don't have nothing to do with the state they were born in.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

But they be like Yankee fans.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I ain't Yeah, they some hardcore.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

I'm not a baseball fan. And I played baseball.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

I'm about to say, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Baseball fan?

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Did uh did Runic Hard, did he ever coach?

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Runner card's my coach?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. He coached you, Wimp, Dave Rusk. Yeah. Yeah, he sure did. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, those are the good old days. They were. Alright, now we'll we'll get into talking about the texturizers. You used to be committed to that S-Curl. What did it represent to you back then?

SPEAKER_04 26:52

I it didn't, I didn't go it didn't really represent anything to me. I used to always uh a lot of stuff I did was just because a Shaf did it.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Okay. So Shaf was like your idol back then? Okay, come on, I want to know more. Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

So Shaf wore certain clothes, and me and him always been like the same size.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

I would I would steal his clothes.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Well, Shaf, no, nah.

SPEAKER_04 27:17

Where happened to his clothes? I was steal his clothes. He's the first person I seen with FUBU.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Oh, dang.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

I steal his Fubu jerseys. Like all the stuff Shaf had, I was stealing.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Because I just looked up to him. He's the first person I seen to get an S-curl. Right. I may have been 1011.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

I wonder what inspired him to get that S-curl.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

I may have been 1011 when he got it. And when he got it, it may have been two weeks later. Young put it in my head for me.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

So it have no representation.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

No.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

You just looked up to your big cousin.

Persona Vs Person: DK And The Hat

SPEAKER_04 27:53

And I know the formula has changed, but back then that shit was that old school potato conch. That shit used to burn. That shit used to burn so bad. Straight up lie. Man. You talk about your if don't let that shit touch the top of your ears. Your fucking ears gonna be burning.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

You supposed to base your ears.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

That shit would burn so bad. I'm talking about man. You supposed to base them. So if if if it's a lawsuit for that shit, I shit, I guarantee you get some. If you use that shit in the 90s. Because what I think now it don't even come in, do it come in the jug.

unknown 28:33

It's the job.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Man, that shit, man, that shit burned so bad. Oh my gosh. I wonder if y'all's were because by by the time the 90s hit, we had, it was a no-li relaxer. It was still burned depending on what you did. You know, whether you scratched the night before, the day before, or maybe it's, you know, just manipulate manipulation at the scalp, period gonna cause it to burn, even if it's a no-lie uh processor. But I wonder back then in the 90s, what uh was it a no-lie?

unknown 29:08

No.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

Do they use lie though? And the crazy thing, I'm gonna tell you this story. I fucked around one time because S-Cur got two boxes. I don't know if y'all know, they got two boxes. They got a blue box and they got a red box. A red motherfucker. Fucking red box is extra strength. That bitch would burn holes through carpet. I promise you. That shit's so strong. I got that shit one time. Hey, my whole brush top was just straight. Where I just I couldn't do shit but comb it backwards. Like fucking Malcolm X and uh Denzel Washington, Malcolm X. That shit was so straight.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Like so, how did you mix up the boxes?

SPEAKER_04 29:53

I I I think my grandma got the wrong one. Rewent and got it. Yeah, I think she got the wrong one. Man, that shit burned so bad.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

I don't even know why they have different strengths because those chemicals are so potent. I don't care how kinky your hair is, it's going to relax the pattern. So I don't know why they had an extra strength, a mile, a regular, a super.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Had no idea. I had no idea. Now I can't speak for the duke. So what happened? Because I never used the Duke.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I don't know why I thought you were using Duke.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

I never no wimp used the Duke.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Wimp used the Duke.

SPEAKER_04 30:27

I never used the Duke. Never used that. I never used the Duke. Never used the Duke.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Why the S curl over the Duke?

SPEAKER_04 30:37

Because Shaf used the S curl.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Oh, okay. He never used the Duke.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

It was the same shit.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

It was pretty much the it's just like just for me and PCJ for. Yeah, it was the same thing. It was the same thing. Yeah, just a different book.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

And I want to say the same company made it.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Probably did. What was the company? Oh, it would be in that top left, the logo. What was it? Silky Smooth? Smooth? No, it was like Johnson something. Oh, if it was Johnson, you definitely need to be following them, too.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Johnson something. I made all that shit.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

I'm I'm probably. Do they still make S curl? They do. I looked it up on Amazon. When I started this season, I was I was like, I'm curious to know if it's still even out there. And it is still out there. And they try, I think it's like$14 now. But it was like five more.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

That shit needs to be banned. That shit need to be banned from all shelves. That's that's like I wouldn't be surprised if y'all could get a loss of shit. That shit needs to be banned. And I don't think I stopped using that shit until I was like 20.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah. So that's at least how many years?

Texturizers: S-Curl, Duke, And Burn

SPEAKER_04 31:39

10, probably 10 years. I probably used it for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Using dukes. I mean X curls.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Yeah, I'll probably use it for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

How often were you applying them?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Once every three months.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Oh, that's not bad.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

No, you can't you can't use that every month.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Well, now, especially for y'all because y'all kept y'all hair low. Yeah, you can't use that. You know, so that makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Like, and you only so it was certain um shampoo I would use. Like, if I use like regular shampoo, it'll be alright. But as soon as I put that damn mane and tail shampoo, what would that do? That shit would strain every nutrient. I don't care what chemical you had in your head, and mane and tail getting it out of there.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

So it was stripping it.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

Stripping pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Main and tail. I wonder what's that mane and tail? I never looked at that. Wasn't with the horses.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

But I think they were niggas will use some shit. This shit ain't even for humans. We washing our hair with shit for horses. What the fuck going on, man? Nobody think I'm bullshit. I'm not playing. We mane and tail. We did maneuver horses.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

But it's it, but it was used for our hair too, though.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

That shit was not they sold that shit to Pet Supplusto.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

They didn't you don't think they changed the ingredients to make it more for well, hair is hair though, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Okay. Let me stop. I'm just messing with you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

But a lot of people had a lot of great things to say about many tail. I personally have I've never used Maine and Tail. But a lot of people said it did. They seen changes in the integrity of their hair and and it uh it was able to retain length.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

It it'll strip it, it'll strip it and then make your hair grow. It will do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Oh dang.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

It will do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Now I'm gonna go home and look at look up the ingredients because I'm not sure. It weren't for humans. No. I'm gonna look that up.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

It's hor it's two horses on the bottle.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

But I was thinking that was a message.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

No.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

Basically stating you can grow mane like a horse.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

No, ma'am. That's horse shampoo.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

No, ma'am.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Why are you so fast? Straight horse shampoo.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Oh my gosh, I'm definitely gonna look into that.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

You look it up. Horse shampoo for real, for real.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Okay. Did you like your hair growing up? Even though you described it as nappy, I'ma say you just didn't know what to do with it because you later learned what to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

I didn't I didn't I didn't I ain't gonna say I didn't like it and liked it. Once I figured out um who I was and I wanted to dress and all that, that's when I was very conscious of my hair.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Okay. How old were you then?

SPEAKER_04 34:35

So I would say about my sophomore year, I became very conscious of my hair where I would get a haircut every week.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

And how was the haircut? What was a choice?

SPEAKER_04 34:43

Number two guard, normal, even, all over.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Uh-huh. No fade. No fade. Line up.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

Just line up.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Every week.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

High and tight. I gotta have it.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Every week. I had to have a haircut. And haircuts back then was$7.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

I can get it. I could afford a haircut every week. That's true. It was seven dollars.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Yeah. That's right. Yeah, you could do that.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

It was seven dollars.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

$28 a month. So come on, keep adding. It sounds like you have more to ask.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

I sound old as fuck. A haircut now is$100.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Can be. Depending on who you go to, what they offer.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Yeah, so every week I I get off the bus on Tuesday, walk to walk to the barbershop, get my haircut.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Where were you walking?

SPEAKER_04 35:28

Do I walk the Armada Lee or I'm walking to Liz Hill? Doesn't matter, but I'm working.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

You did a lot of walking back then though. You did. And you used to ride your bike a lot. Yep, you did. Because you used to come see us all the time. Yeah. Especially when we moved from the Booker T to the projects. You used to come see us all the time.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

I would get walk. I'll get my hair cut. I was about on Tuesday, that's what I'll do every Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

I never skip Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Same time.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Every get off the bus. I know where I'm going.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Okay. So what inspired the appearance? Like I have to, like, at this age, now I'm more, you know, aware of how I want to present myself and how I want to show up. What what inspired you?

SPEAKER_04 36:09

It happens to every man when she when she first realized, oh, women find you attractive.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

I I didn't want to say, but I was wondering.

SPEAKER_04 36:17

Women find you attractive. And that that I I'm a whole attitude change.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

I stopped hanging with some of the people I'm hanging with.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Why?

SPEAKER_04 36:26

I I I matured a little bit faster than them.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

I did. I started hanging, I started hanging with Solo a lot.

Wave Runner And Training Techniques

SPEAKER_02 36:34

OMG.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

I started hanging with Solo.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

The latest man.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Yeah. So I hang with Solo a lot.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

To where to where me and him dressed so much alike and we were the same height.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:45

People would think I was him when I'd be walking down the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

I could see that.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

Like we, I was with Solo a lot.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Yeah, because y'all both tall, both chocolate. Yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Yeah, I hang with him. I hung with him a lot.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

I didn't even know that.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

He matured faster than everybody.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Literally. He was a grown man in what ninth grade.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

He was acting like he was 21 at 14. This dude was grown at 14. He was so grown. His mom and daddy were never home.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

That's true. Yeah, he did have that house too.

SPEAKER_04 37:16

It was like a free fall house he had.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

Like we, man, we were at 15, 16, we up here, we up here getting drunk.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

We didn't hear drinking at his crib.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, y'all was doing too much. The house was right across the street from Lickestone. That's true, too. But y'all was still doing too much.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

Like, we was getting we were getting it in.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

So that's the level of maturity you reached to where you more chill, indulging in some things.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Once I realized like all the time.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

And then the women. Okay, so what were the what was the other group doing? What were they doing? Just still running in the streets.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

They were still goofballing. Like they were still being on lunch break at school, they still goofballing.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

I realized. Immature?

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Like still, what childish? Yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

And I just realized like, oh, I could see it.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

I could see like them women looking at me. And so by the time my junior year came, I don't know, because I had got a summer job.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Was it at Dixie Dandy?

SPEAKER_04 38:17

No, I was picking up trash upside the street.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Yeah, I had got a summer job in my junior year. By the time my junior year hit, yeah, nobody even calling me man no more.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Was it DK?

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Everybody called me DK back then.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Well, who started calling you DK?

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Kenyatta?

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Machete?

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Yeah.

unknown 38:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

Kenyatta Machette were calling me DK and Y.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Especially with the NY hat.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

She would call me DK and Y.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Oh, I didn't know that's where it came from.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

Because she used to wear a lot of Donna Karen.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 38:51

And she started calling me DK and Y.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

I had no idea where, you know, because we grew up on man. That's what we call you. And still sometimes I'll slip and say man, but DK became the name, and everybody was saying it so much. It's almost like Pac-Man. We grew up calling him Pac-Man, and then somebody gave him 1-0 and not it's not.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Everybody call him 1-0.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Yeah, it's just like, how did that happen when that was the foundation name? We gave that was the childhood name.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Because with Pac-Man, we start calling him Pac-Tien after Mac 10.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

And then dropped the Pac.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

And we just dropped the Pac, and we started. Like Rock. We just call him Rock Head.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:34

They dropped the head and just started calling him Rock.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

I I grew up on Junior.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Yeah?

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Yeah. That's what I grew up on. It it still I didn't really call him Rock. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

That's where DK came from.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Gotcha. All right. So I guess I don't have to ask you this. Was it about manageability, image girls, or something deeper? Or was it all of?

SPEAKER_04 40:01

All of the above. It wasn't nothing deeper, but it was all of them you named.

Grooming Habits, Products, And Myths

SPEAKER_02 40:05

How would what why manageability? What did it become easier to manage your hair when you started texturizing it?

SPEAKER_04 40:13

It's easier to lay down. Like after you put that texturizer on, you put that wave cap on, it's easier to train.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:21

The training process is so easy. For the waves. Yeah. Cause when you that that escur kit came with all them moisturizers in it, you put all that in your head and tie the do-rag on it. Instant flat.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

Mm-hmm. I can see it. Because it's relaxing the pattern to make it easier to manipulate.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

It'd be instant.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Very super manageable.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Did you stop processing your hair before you went ball and you were doing your own and manipulating your own texture at one point? Or it went from processing to you started noticing you losing your hair?

SPEAKER_04 40:58

No, I just I just stopped. I just stopped buying it.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Because at this point I was like, I don't even need this shit.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Because I'm brushing my hair. I literally just drive in the car and just brush my hair.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

I just brushed my hair driving the car. I didn't notice I started losing my hair until I was 25.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

So how so at what age did you stop processing it?

SPEAKER_04 41:18

20.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

20. Oh, so for five years, that was just you taking care of your own hair? Yeah. Okay, I got you. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

And I would use that um man, I was using that medicated head and shoulders, that blue bottle.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Well, you had dandruff?

unknown 41:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

No, just it's just how you see using it.

unknown 41:36

Why?

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I think Re had that just always felt like she did.

SPEAKER_04 41:41

It just felt like it made my hair stronger.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

I do remember her always using uh head and should. She had a certain brand of everything.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

And it didn't smell that blue bottle, head and shoulder did not smell good. It smelled like medicine.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah. It smelled medicine. It's kind of like an over-the-counter medicated dandruff shampoo. Yeah. So it's supposed to smell like.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

And it may have been for like head sores or something.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

It's for dandruff. Dandruff control.

SPEAKER_04 42:03

Yeah, that's what I use.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

That's why they call it head and shoulders, because it's like the dandruff on the shoulders.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

That's what I used. Yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

She had her brands of everything that she did, like the head and shoulders, uh, the safeguard soap, the uh Tide washing powder. Like she had these certain things that you didn't see it change up at all.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

I still I still use that soap.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

I'm not changed soap.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

I've had females laugh at me, like, why you use that bar of soap? Hey. I know it's antibacterial. I know it's clean.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

It's safe.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

I know it cleans. I know that.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Safeguard the ones you love.

SPEAKER_04 42:39

I know that. I don't know about all that shit y'all pumping in that bottle. I don't know about it. Oh, the liquid soap. You don't like liquid soap? This bar is gonna get it clean.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

I go back and forth. I'm not gonna. I really just start, started maybe not even a year ago. I just started changing over the liquid soap.

SPEAKER_04 42:59

But you know that bar's soap lasts a long time.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Man, why I tell y'all go straight through that liquid soap in like a week.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Man, that bar's soap lasts you.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

You can at least get a good two.

SPEAKER_04 43:09

Hey.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

You can stretch it if you're gonna get all the way down to the where it's like the size of a darn nickel.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

Hey, and I got and I I keep a bar from my body and a bar from my face. I keep separate bar. I use, I use the I use the gold dial bar on my face.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Why? You know that's harsh.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

I strips all that shit off of.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

But you know they got skincare out here that can do that for you.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

You know, I don't use skincare routine.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

A lot of men don't.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

People always like, oh your skin is this. Like, what do you use? Dal soap?

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah. It'll it'll it'll work for some, but it ain't gonna work for everybody.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

Like, I've had a lot of women with like, oh, your skin, uh soap. I ain't used nothing else.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah. I did that for a long time until it wasn't working anymore. And then I had to switch it up.

SPEAKER_04 43:53

Put dial soap and put some lotion on.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Yeah, and keep it moving.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

That's all I've ever used. I've never had a skincare.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Same thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

I mean, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But as soon as it started breaking, then fix it. That's what I did. You know, I didn't have a skincare routine either, but I started getting hormonal breakouts. And then I had to, you know, treat my skin according to that.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

But other than that, it was just Because I d I don't think I had the acne phase growing up. I didn't go through that.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yeah, I don't recall you either having uh zits and pimples or any of that stuff, no.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

I didn't go through that.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Not that I can think of, nope.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

And I think DOSIP was the cause of that.

College, Predominantly White Spaces

SPEAKER_02 44:34

That's why you're sticking to it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

No, switch that up.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Oh my gosh. Did you feel more confident after you processed your hair?

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

What was it for you that made you feel more confident? Did you like how you looked with the more pro did you like how it looked like?

SPEAKER_04 45:01

Hey, I I I watched that shit. I started dancing in the mirror. I was ready, I was ready to hit the dance after that. I was ready to go out. Well you get that that Duke and that S-Curl in there. And I really I stopped using uh I stopped using S curl um in high school. I switched to this thing called You remember Wave Runner?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Wave Runner? Yeah. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_04 45:30

It wouldn't, it wasn't, it wasn't as strong as the S-Curl. It came a little, it's like these little three packs you use. And it was like, I want to say$3.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

That was at Walmart?

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Yeah. It's called Wave Runner. The burning sensation.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

The Wave Runner didn't burn.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

I never heard of a Wave Runner.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

It was called Wave Runner.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

It had a black man on the package as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

It was a little box, it was a little small box.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

You know how they label, you know, they market it for black men. Was it a black manner? Yeah. I don't remember this.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Yeah, Root turned me on to it. Rue. Yeah. Yeah, Root. We never forget. Um I was in the book of T. And Root put one in his head. I was like, what is this? He's like, it's a wave runner. That's when I switched.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

I never knew Rue was processing his hair. I thought those were his waves. Nah, Rue had a wave runner. I did not know that. So now it makes sense when you say that one wasn't as strong, so that means it wasn't relaxing the pattern as much.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Yeah. That wave runner gets you right.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Because I never thought he had a uh That wave runner, that that thing would put 360 degrees of waves in your head. Instant.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

All the way around. Instant. Not just on the top.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

Instant. And it was just in a small pack and it didn't burn at all.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

I don't remember this thing.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

And then it come with all that shampoo and all that old crap. It didn't come with all that.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

So you didn't shampoo it out?

SPEAKER_04 46:56

It came with like a little, it came with like a little um base.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Uh-huh. Um Yeah, what was in the kit? Tell us what was the what was in the kit.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

So you had the the base, you had the um the texturizer, then you had the shampoo. That was all in there.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Oh, that was so you did have a shampoo. Good. Because I'm like, something needed to stop it for pocket.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

Yeah, it only had like three little things. And it was like, they looked like damn three sugar packets. It was that small. It wasn't even a big kit. It was super small.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Like you could literally take it out of the box and put it in your pocket.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

But it still had the tub or the processor came in.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

The processor even came in a little packet.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

So how did did you still apply it the same way that you would apply an escape?

SPEAKER_04 47:37

You applied it more like shampoo.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Oh, like you rubbed it in. Oh, dang, so that's the last time.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

And then you take the brush and you brush it and brush it through.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Oh, okay, then. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

You brush it through and just let it sit and then you wash it out. Wave runner was a much better process, but I don't even think they sell that no more.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

I never even heard of that.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

It was a little small box for$3.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Yeah, I never heard of that one. Now I'm gonna go home and Google that. I gotta Google Main and Tail and I gotta Google Wave Runner.

SPEAKER_04 48:06

Ruth turned me on Tabar Quals. He turned me on the Wave Runner.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

Mr. Tabar Quals. I did not know all that time he was processing his hair.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

That's the first person I seen get that.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 48:16

The first person.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Well, looking back, do you think you were enhancing your hair or escaping it?

SPEAKER_06 48:27

Uh a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

A little bit of both.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Elaborate.

SPEAKER_04 48:31

Because in the beginning. Because I yeah, I thought my hair was nappy in the beginning. So I wanted to get away from that.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

Yeah, so in the beginning, but thus once I came, you know, I'm a mature person and start becoming who I was, then I felt like it was enhancing it.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Yeah, I can see that. Especially based on how you walking me through the journey of you processing your hair. That makes sense. You know, based on when you did refer to it as nappy. You know. And then as you develop into a young man, it's like, well, now I know who I am. I like, you know, I'm I'm starting to dress according to, you know, appeal to the ladies.

SPEAKER_05 49:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Yeah. So I do remember that that time frame for you.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

Yeah, once all that started. Yeah.

Segregated Proms And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_02 49:17

All the women, all my friends want to talk to D, want to be my friend because they want to talk to DK.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

I I I think I talked to all your friends.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

You did. Unfortunately. And we're gonna move on from there. Okay, let's move on. Did you feel pressure? Now we're gonna switch the conversation to you attending Louisiana Tech, which we all know if you're from our area, is a predominantly white college. Okay?

SPEAKER_05 49:42

It is.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

So did you feel pressure to represent black men in those spaces, especially when it came to your hair or even you know, your music style. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 49:55

I I I love Grambling to death. I do.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

Love it. All my family went there. I never wanted to go to Gramlin.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Why?

SPEAKER_04 50:03

Not one time did I ever want to go to Gramlin.

unknown 50:05

Why?

SPEAKER_04 50:06

I knew if I go to here, I ain't finna do shit but flunk out. You ain't getting no niggas up here. You ain't getting no niggas up. Women are women up here. And think about it. We hung out at Gramlin even when we was in high school. So we know what's going on. I ne I never, ever wanted to go to Gramlin.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

You wanted discipline in the school.

SPEAKER_04 50:31

I applied to two schools. Tech. Tech and Gramlin. I only applied to Gremlin to make my mama happy. I knew I wasn't going when Gramlin said they lost my admission fees, I was like, thank God. Because I didn't want to go there nowhere.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Okay. So you did it to stay focused and disciplined. Yeah. And then you selectively, if I want to go on the yard, I'll do it when I want to.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

I've always wanted to go to Louisiana Tech. I never want to go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Yeah. So did you feel pressure to show up as a black man in that predominantly white space? Did you feel pressure? You just, it's like, I'm just here to give my education.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

So Louisiana Tech is a predominantly white school. But it's, there's so many cultures on that campus. Like it's it was eye-opening for me, because you know where we're from, it's just black and white. Right. That's all it is. So I got introduced to a lot of different cultures. And we are on we are heavily represented on campus. The black men and the black women are heavily represented on campus. The thing is, we don't have a yard to show it. We don't have where you can drive through and you can see us. No, if you're not actually in school, if you're not indulging in what we're doing, you won't see us.

SPEAKER_06 51:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Because it never, it never failed. From 11 o'clock to one o'clock, the calf was on fire. Every black person on campus was in the calf from 11 to 1. Nobody, nobody black scheduled a class.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Between 11 and 1 to 1 to 1. The black ain't got a meetup.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Nobody.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

We're gonna be in there playing cards, Domino's. We're gonna be goofing off for two hours.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

I did not know.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

Nobody scheduled class between them times.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Did y'all have other cultures like joining in with, you know, like other people of like browns and blacks? Because you said it was different cultures. And I didn't even think about that either, because I'm thinking it's it's predominantly white, and then you have your blacks. But obviously, you know, a lot of uh kids do go to tech from other countries. No, from 11 to 1 was our time. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

It looked like an African American studies up in that joint from 11 to 1. That that hey, you you see some white people walk through.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

But they ain't hanging out. They ain't stay. Did y'all integrate at all? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like uh But just not during that time. That was like the designated time.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Like uh like some of my classmates who went to Louisiana Tech, who I had never hung with. I ain't hang with them so I so I started going to La Tech.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Like who? 91.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

Yeah, Jennifer T.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Oh yeah Colorado.

Dancing, Identity, And Social Capital

SPEAKER_04 53:04

I ain't I ain't start hanging with them until I went to La Tech.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

And then like, okay, cause I, you know, their parents not involved. You know, their parents or something else. Not that their parents ain't involved, yeah, we can kick it.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Yeah. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

Like, well, we.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yeah, because you know, when we were going to school, the proms were still segregated. Yeah. Which is crazy.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

When you think about you graduating in the year 2000 and it's still a black prom and white.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

I was a black prom king.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

King, exactly. Who was the white prom king?

SPEAKER_04 53:36

Kevin Pate.

SPEAKER_02 53:37

That makes so much sense. Because he was super popular too.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Yep. We had two perm coons, a black one and a white one.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Who's the uh black prom queen for y'all? Was it Keontae? Kiki Jones. Oh, Kiki Jones. Wait, Keontae Martin, she went.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

No, she you're older than me.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

That's right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

She with um Ricardo Page and Lanning Cardiff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

And so who was the white queen?

SPEAKER_04 54:00

Jennifer T.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Duh. Why did I even ask that? Especially when you told me you went to Tik with her. Yeah, duh. Yeah, because she was super popular too. Okay, yeah, that was, that was. I never knew that that was a problem. That's that's bad. You growing up in that. Like we had black homecoming queens. I mean, I mean, not with black maid, white. Black maid, white maid. There we go. Black maid, white maid. That's crazy. And we did have like three Asians that went to high school. They left. But then we had two, which are the ones that own printing nails. Their kids. Yeah. I'm like, so where they fit in? So we ain't gonna have an Asian.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

Yeah, we had a hell of a I was a Hispanic with the school with me, Bruce Ulola. Hispanic. He always I forgot all about it.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Yeah, he was Hispanic. He was your classmate, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:50

He was my classmate. He's all the way Hispanic.

unknown 54:52

I forgot all about Brooks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

He was Hispanic. So I'm that's just interesting to me how they did a black and a white, as if we didn't have and it won many. But it's like, how do you just outright do something like that?

SPEAKER_04 55:07

Yeah. It's crazy. When I tell people that out here, it was like, man, you lying.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

No, they really No, we're not lying. That's right. That's right. We sure did.

SPEAKER_04 55:18

When did they stop that?

SPEAKER_02 55:20

My class. We did it for the first time. And um, it didn't go as planned like we thought it was gonna go because we felt like we were integrating, which is why the idea even came about. So we were like, let's just join the proms. So now you know Tiffany Graham showed up, you know, of course, you know, but it was some that didn't show up that we thought would show up, but it had nothing to do with them. It was their parents. So they still had a white prom outside of our joined prom. We didn't have a black prom. We had it mixed. But then they still went and done their own thing.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Yeah, and all the um, all the white kids wanted to come to our prom because we were lit. You know, I was I was the dancer on campus.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

You were dancing a lot.

Noticing Hair Loss And Going Bald

SPEAKER_04 56:05

I was the dancer on campus. It was a lot of white women that wanted to, like, oh, we want to come see.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

Yeah. Hey, you know how it was?

SPEAKER_04 56:14

Because I danced my ass off of my prom. Yeah. At both proms I went to.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

You danced a lot back then and still do today. Yeah. So it kind of started like in high school, huh?

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Uh, Junior High.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Junior High?

SPEAKER_04 56:26

I never forget um MC Hammer came out with the song.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

When you see the typewriter?

SPEAKER_04 56:32

No, it was the song called, it was the song called It's All Good. And he did the butterfly in that video. And Darmesia Woods and Edward Brafford were trying to do the dance.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

And I was like, what y'all doing? And it's like, oh, we trying to do the dance, Amma did. I was like, oh, I got- I know how to do that. And I did it on the spot.

SPEAKER_06 56:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:47

So I ain't think nothing of it. I just did the dance. The next day when I got off that school bus.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Everybody wanted to see it.

SPEAKER_04 56:54

Every female, every black woman that went to that middle school rushed me to do that dance.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Yeah, I'm not surprised. I am not surprised. So, was that around the time that you was also doing those dances at Miss Paget?

SPEAKER_04 57:11

Yeah, because yeah. That's when it started.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Yeah, for real.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

So I started my sixth grade year?

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 57:16

But but y'all knew I was already dancing. I can imitate anything Michael Jackson did.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Michael Jackson, that's right. That was the inspiration.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

I knew I was already dancing.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

I just ain't show nobody.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

And once I showed everybody.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

That was it. I feel like all of that between the dancing, between the new looks, switching up the people that you hang with, when I tell you I could, it was just a swarm of bees, like women. And it used to get on my nerves so bad. Because I'm like, y'all wouldn't even be talking to me if you didn't want to talk to him. It was just, it was like.

SPEAKER_04 57:54

Some of your friends were sweethearts, though.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Okay, we're moving on. All right. When did you first notice you were losing your hair?

SPEAKER_04 58:05

25.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

25. We did talk about that. So walk me through that, that day.

SPEAKER_04 58:11

My barber showed it. Like in the in the crown of my head. You say my hair was thinning.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

It showed it in the top of my head. It was thinning out. And um, at I don't know if you know, at 26 I shaved my hair off. I overwit all ball.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

I think I did rem I do remember that.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

Yeah. I think I think you were off leave from the military. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

I think I did it.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

And I came back home. It was all shaving off.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

So I wore ball for two years.

SPEAKER_06 58:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

And then I got engaged, and my ex-wife was like, I don't want you balling the wedding pictures.

SPEAKER_06 58:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 58:42

And so here's what really took my hair out. So when I grew it back, I started using Rogain.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Oh, yeah, if you don't keep using it.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

Rogue grew me a full head of hair.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Mm-hmm.

Rogaine, Beards, And “Paint Jobs”

SPEAKER_04 58:56

But yeah, if you don't know, fellas, fellas, if you don't know, Rogain is expensive.

SPEAKER_06 59:01

Number one.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

This this is an expensive shampoo you got to use like every five days.

SPEAKER_06 59:06

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

And it's like$30 a treatment. Like it got super. I know you could use the drops, but the drops would turn your head white.

SPEAKER_06 59:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 59:17

But I use the shampoo, it got super expensive. But did it work? Yes.

SPEAKER_06 59:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 59:22

A thousand percent. I know it works.

SPEAKER_06 59:24

It worked.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

It worked. And I'll never forget when I turned um when I turned 30. It's like, I ain't doing this no more. And I shaved it off. And it did not grow back.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Yeah. That was the end.

SPEAKER_04 59:38

Like when I shaved it off, it's like it took the hair follicles with it. It did not grow back.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

I do wonder if the rogue gang has something to do with it too.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

Umce you start that, you gotta keep doing it.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

It's almost like that monoxidil, which is why a lot of hair loss.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

It's the same thing. It's just an extra strength version of it.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 59:58

But it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Like a lot of tracologists are trying to steer women away from even picking up the habit if you're losing your hair in that way. They they they are more recommending like red light therapy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

And let me tell y'all, ladies, something. A lot of these niggas you see with these full beards, these n is using that that bro gang shit all in their beard. Don't let these n fool you thinking these niggas grew a beard on their own. Them n is putting them drops in on their face.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

That shit works the same way on the top of your head, it would work the same way on your face. N is really doing that shit to their beard.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

Well, I'm not surprised because now they even using the the unit, the beard unit.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:41

You see them them them big luscious beards. Them niggas using them drops. Oh my gosh. I didn't know that. But just like women catfishing, the niggas out here catfishing too. I'm done. Don't let these niggas fool you. Hey, hey, hey, don't let these niggas fool you. I keep, I I will wear a beard for like three, four months, but I always cut it off.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

Cause I just, I don't want to be beard fishing nobody.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

Cause I know I don't, I don't only wear a beard when it's cold.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

And just listen, if you got it, you got it. If you don't got it, it's okay. It's not a deal breaker. I don't, I really don't. When social media, whenever they make, like some women come on the social media platform and they may talk about uh men with a full beard versus men without it. Men that are bald versus men. I'm I'm I'm like, I don't, I don't hang or even really know women that care about stuff like that. So when I see it, I'm shocked to see that women even make comments about men being bald or men uh not growing a full beard. I I I just didn't know that that was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:59

There's women that like men with bald heads and beards. That's what they like.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:02

That's their thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Yep, I'm learning it. I'm learning that that is a preference aesthetically.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

I don't wear a beard that much because hygiene-wise, is that's not clean.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

It's not.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:15

That beard.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Unless you're gonna be really washing that, especially when you think about getting to the skin, being able to like thoroughly cleanse the skin underneath all that hair, and it's on your face, that it's always exposed to air elements. Yeah, it can be very unsancy. Ain't no way. Eat straight veggies.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:41

Yeah, no, like don't worry, don't eat no crab legs. Your beard smell like it's like dog. I was just giving up the tea. They gonna look at their medicine cabinet and see if they got real game for their beard.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Yeah, no, for real. I didn't know that. I had no idea. I know I actually like the beard to have a rough, patchy look. I don't like it so groomed. Like, you know, like when it's just like, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:12

But you know, these boys ain't really getting haircuts no more. They're getting paint jobs.

Units, Standards, And Masculinity

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Well, I see barbers using it and it ain't even needed. Yeah, these boys be like even Deuce, like uh not the bar he goes to now, but when we first moved here, that barber always wanted to paint his hairline. I I used to tell him, you don't have to do that. He's a kid, he got a full hairline. Yeah, them he doesn't. Don't paint his hairline. So some of them, I don't even think they are even asking for this. Because we didn't ask for Deuce to get no paint around his hairline. That barber just volunteered paint on his hairline.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:43

They look like they just came from a damn taller parachute. Oh, absolutely. Ain't nobody's beard that goddamn black. Or the hairline.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Or the hairline, because the hairline is naturally, you know, thin anyway. You know.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:55

That that Beijing five, he ain't fooling nobody. Nobody heard that goddamn black.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

But it looked fake, though.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

It looked fake, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Come on. Yeah, I don't I don't care for it either. I'm like, it's okay. Whatever's happening, let it happen. Rock it with confidence, do some internal work, and you will be fired.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

That's why you got these barbs that lock the door when you go in there. Because them niggas in there painting faces and shit and putting on units.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Lock the door. What they don't want nobody in there?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:20

They yeah, one client at a time, they lock the door.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:24

I I I, for the life of me, I don't understand the units. I don't understand the units.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

No, I don't either. I listen.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

To each it, it kinda it's like that double-edged sword because whenever you bring up the units for men, then they'll turn around and bring up, oh well, y'all are wearing hair extensions. I personally don't wear hair extensions that much. I think braids is the most I'll do. I haven't worn a weave. I wore weave about two years ago now. But I left it up for like two weeks. But it's just I I can't. I just I like to get to my scalp now. Like, now back when I was younger, yes. But now I have to get to my scalp.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

I just think that's too close to what women do. Like, leave that for the women. Like, I don't, I don't adopt the painted fingernail thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Like, that's too close to But you know, in the 80s, they did that. They painted their fingernails, men, black men wore crop tops. That was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:17

I didn't grow up like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Now you did not grow up like that. But do you st but even though they were wearing that back then, you still, you know, I guess, categorize that as feminine versus um masculinity?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

Like even them old 80s pictures I be looking at, I was like, man, what's wrong with these boys?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Oh, you no, not for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:39

No, I don't know, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

You didn't see a masculine trait in there at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:42

Nah, come on. D boy got on leopard pants, man. You don't cut on with the You ain't finna sit here and tell me Prince was straight. You ain't finna sit and tell me that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

You don't think Prince was straight?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:52

Hell no. We think he was women? Yes he did.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Do you think he was bi?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:56

I think he was very bi.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Okay. Really?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Pants with the ass out. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

No, don't get me wrong. He had some of the most beautiful women in the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

He did.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:10

But let's be honest. What gay man you see that don't hang with beautiful women? There's two things I never see with a gay man. I've never seen a broke gay man, never seen a man, a gay man that don't hang with bad women.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Hmm. That's interesting. Interesting. I will say that. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:33

I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

You don't think he was just feminine and he just adapted to some? Okay, okay. I see your face. Never mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Let's keep moving. Let's keep moving. Because Bryce already done gave me a five-minute warning.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

We're trying to trying to keep you getting canceled now. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

Okay, let's move on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Oh man. Okay, so do you believe black young men get taught to love their natural hair, or it's just not a topic of conversation at all? No.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:02

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Do you believe it's the opposite? They're taught not to love it, or it's just there's it's not taught about at all.

Teaching Black Boys About Hair

SPEAKER_04 1:07:08

I'm just going by what my grandma said. Boy, your hair napping. It ain't never gonna say nothing good about it. It's either gonna say it's nappy, or they ain't gonna say nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:22

Yep. I remember we um we said something. I'm not gonna name which brother, but I do remember when we said something about one you know, you know, because you helped him out a lot. And I remember Tom, she was not having it. Like she, we never spoke on that again.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

But your oldest brother fucked his hair up.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Huh?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:46

He didn't have to put no kiss in his hair. He didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

But but you know what I also learned? He he definitely didn't have to put no kiss in his hair. But I also learned the one you helped didn't have to put no kiss in his either.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:57

Just had to train it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

That's it. That's literally it. But I do feel like Re was she was just way more raw.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:08

Strict.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

Raw, she was strict, and she didn't beat around the bush about how she wanted to express herself. It didn't matter. Tom, she it depends. It depends. If it's like a collective of us going in on one, she's gonna step in.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:23

Yeah. But she'll say what she wanna say, but you ain't gonna say it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

Yeah. That's the that's that's how she would be. Yeah, but she she wouldn't have. She we all got cussed out that day.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

Every last one of us got cussed out for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Yeah, we gotta wrap it up, y'all. This was a good conversation. I didn't get to ask all the questions. I think I didn't get to ask three, but all in all, y'all got the backstory of how black men can grow up and experience different layers of texturism, whether it's within the household, without the household, how they show up in these different spaces, how it, how they identify with them as black men in our culture, y'all got some of the nitty-gritty.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:07

Yeah, we and I mean, looking back on it, I didn't have to use it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:12

Not to use it. Because think about it. At the 20, I didn't use it at all. I didn't have to use it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

Even when I think about like that big family picture of it's like you, young school to lady. It's all of y'all in that one. You know the picture I'm talking about that hung up on rewall? Even when I think about your hair back then, looking at your, you did not need it. You just needed to train it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:28

I didn't have a haircut in that picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

I know, you didn't. That's why that's why I'm bringing it up as a reference. I'm like, you when I look and think about your hair back then, you didn't even need it then. You just needed to train it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:39

I never hair cutting that picture at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

That's it. That's how I feel about all of us. We just didn't know what to do, what problems we use. And I feel like black hair is so political, it's controversial, and they know it's a money market, so they'll just throw anything out there for us to just try to, you know, buy. Because they know it's a part of our culture, it's a part of our of our identity, and um, even how we show up, like confident or whatever the case may be, and they know if it's working for you, then I'm gonna try it for me. And now we make it more.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:10

Black people are always gonna purchase 80% of the market.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:13

Never fails.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

Yep, sure is.

Takeaways, Identity, And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_04 1:10:15

Like, have you ever noticed, like, in my industry, in the DJ industry, when they try to make a club for white people, that shit die. Clubs white people don't last. White people ain't bottle culture is black culture. That's a black folks thing. I don't do it, but that's a black folks thing. I ain't never been to no white folk, white person club, and they just in there buying bottles and buying liquor like that. No, they're not. You know, you know, white folks in there doing that cocaine. That's let's wrap it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Shout out your socials and let everybody know how they can find you, please. Shout out your socials in case y'all want to book him as a DJ.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

You can find me everywhere. Everything is at IMDJ DK Facebook.com backslash I am DJ DK. I G I am Dj DK, TikTok, anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:11

All right.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:11

Everything is I am DJ DK.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

And I'm going to put that information in the show notes just in case y'all didn't catch all that, so that y'all can follow him on socials if y'all want to continue listening to his unfilteredness, because he's also unfiltered there as well. My cousin's story isn't just about losing hair, it's about how black young men learn to see themselves, how culture shapes our choices, and how texturism shows up in quiet ways. Whether it was chemicals or genetics, the real conversation is about identity. And sometimes healing starts with simply telling the truth.