When was the last time you had space to think about your goals? If you're a parent or carer wondering what's next, the Parent Pathways program is here to support you. It's a free, voluntary program offering mentoring, financial assistance, and genuine personal support to help you achieve your goals, whatever that may look like. Whether it's building your parenting skills, studying for your dream job, getting your driver's license, or simply finding your confidence again, Parent Pathways meets you where you're at. Eligible parents can access up to $1,250 per year. Search Training Alliance Group Parent Pathways. T's and C's apply. Details are in the show notes. Hi, I'm Stephanie Trithewey, the founder of Motherland, a national charity that supports rural mums across Australia. Welcome to the Motherland podcast, where each week I share with you real and raw stories of motherhood told by women on the land. I was so scared when he was born. I felt so alone. And I remember sobbing to her as I just said, what have I done? It's a wild roller coaster we're all on. So no matter where you live or what you do, remember we're in this together and you're not alone. So what's it like to raise kids on the land? This is Motherland. Just a quick warning: this episode discusses pregnancy loss and medical termination. So please take care while listening. Support services are listed in the show notes. Ellen Fitzgerald is a mum of three living on a cattle property northwest of Longreach. Like so many rural mothers, her days are full, raising kids, running a business, and building a life on the land alongside her husband. But recently, Ellen has found herself in a position she never expected, becoming an accidental advocate for rural families. Because right now, Ellen's family, like many in remote areas, is facing the very real possibility of losing the in-home childcare they rely on, with current support systems not extending to families in her situation and making it increasingly unaffordable.
SPEAKER_02So we are looking at having to say goodbye to an educator who has totally transformed our family life, who has allowed me to continue to professionally work and contribute economically to our family and to our business, and that's great for my own mental health, and that is true of so many women.
SPEAKER_00I invited Ellen on the podcast to talk about this issue, and we did, but along the way I uncovered a much deeper story. Ellen's journey to motherhood has been shaped by profound loss, from losing her own mum at just 21 to experiencing four miscarriages in a row, and then the heartbreaking loss of her daughter, Adelaide. And still, she kept going. This is Ellen's story. Ellen, welcome to Motherland. Thank you so much for having me, Steph. You are all tecked up in there. You're in your one of your kids' classrooms, which you said was more equipped than what you've got, so you've got all the gear going.
SPEAKER_02Yes, this is my eldest daughter's schoolroom. She does School of the Year via Long Reach School of Distance Education.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, thank you so much for doing this. Um, how this came about is you've become an accidental advocate in a lot of ways for childcare and in-home care for rural families, and we're going to talk about that later. But I saw that article and I thought you reached out to me to try and you know see what Motherland could do to get some airtime on this issue. But you're not getting out of it without sharing your personal story too. So I'm really excited to get to know you first as we make our way through your personal journey as a rural mum. So good place to start. Introduce yourself, tell us where you're based, your beautiful family, what life is like for you there.
SPEAKER_02Sure. So I'm based 165 kilometres northwest of Long Reach, a property called Merida, which is about halfway between Winton and Mudderborough, as the crow flies. And we run beef cattle here. I'm here with my husband Mick. We have three children, Vivian, Pippi, and Henry. Vivian's school age, so she's distance education. And then we also have Pippi who's three, and Henry, who is one. Uh he'll be two fairly soon, and they are they are a ball of business.
SPEAKER_00A ball of business. I love that. And tell me a bit about life there for you. Um, yeah, like obviously you've got three kids, lots happening, your personal life managing the kids, properties, what's it like for you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh look, Mick does the lion's share of the physical work on the property. Uh I manage books and accounts and uh, you know, the agribusiness and compliance side of things. We're in partnership with other members of our family. In we have property in New South Wales as well and as in Queensland. So life is really busy from a business perspective. Um, we have other investments as well off farm that keep me fairly flat out. And then uh of course, school in itself out here is a major part of our day. So um we have to you know spend the hours with Vivian in the schoolroom, and while that's happening, we have a wonderful educator, Miss Liv, who is able to help us with the small kids, uh Pippi and Henry. So that that allows us to function as a family.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's that village, which is just you as you said, you need it, you can't function without it. And I want to hear a bit about your backstory rural life. Is that where you're from? Are you from where you live now? Tell us about your journey.
SPEAKER_02Uh I actually grew up 1600 kilometres from here, so east of Gaira in northern New South Wales, and I've gone from one of the coldest places in Australia to one of the hottest, which is so ironic. Uh I grew up on the land on a property there. Mum and dad were both um people who worked on farm, and uh we've always grown cattle. I had a really lovely childhood, um, very rural. We would ride horses every day, and my mum was an extremely competitive rider. She would show hacks and Australian stockhorses and took us, my brother and I, all around the country doing that, and that was pretty amazing. Um and then, yeah, when we moved up here, I had been living in the Upper Hunter Valley with Mick, who is a barrier by trade. And um the opportunity came up to restructure our family partnership and get us back to the land. And I was I had spoken to him before we got married about doing that and said, you know, if ever that opportunity comes up, it might mean us living up at Merida. And he went, Yep, let's do it. Uh, which was a pretty big deal for him to to join in on and go, yeah, let's let's walk away from what I do for a living and and try something completely different. He had grown up on the land too, so he's how old were you at the time? When we moved up here. Yeah. Uh at the time I would have been about 30, 33.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So we've skipped a bit, Ellen. I want to know how you met this bloke first, but you did you did touch on your childhood um and that beautiful rural life. Can you take us through, you know, schooling years or beyond school? What did you want to do? Like what was the plan after school and and your take us through your early 20s leading up to meeting Mick because a lot's happened for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a lot has happened. Um, so I went to school at a boarding school in Armadale. I had a really great experience at boarding school. I loved it. Um, when I was about 14, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. And so I went through my teenage years as a person who had a really particularly great relationship with my mum because that relationship was in jeopardy, really. Uh, we didn't know where that would go. But mum was a person who didn't suffer from breast cancer. She, you know, really wanted to show it was who was boss. She said from the very beginning that this is just something she's got to deal with and she was going to be okay. And I believed her. And throughout school, you know, she would come and pick me up at the boarding house very regularly, and she became someone who a lot of my friends got to know really well because she was a parent who was at school more often than a lot of their parents. And we would continue to ride, continue to show around the country. Um, she went to great lengths to ensure that I had beautiful horses and I was extremely well mounted, and I'm so grateful for that. Um and I suppose I just believed that mum was sick now, but she would get better. And then she did. She did get better and was in remission when I was about 19, after from like 14 to 19 throughout my teens, being a person who had breast cancer. And that was pretty incredible to be someone whose mum had beaten breast cancer. So um on we went with our life. I was doing university, I did agribusiness and marketing, and um, you know, I was someone who was very driven. I'm really goal-oriented person. I had done, you know, lots of different rural programs that, you know, are involved in personal and professional development, which had been really wonderful for me personally. And then really suddenly mum was diagnosed with a metastasized form of breast cancer again. And she told me again she would beat it, and I believed her. And then I was actually stewarding on the lawns at Sydney Royal Show in the catalog, and I got a phone call from my brother that said you need to come home. You need to come home now, and you can't wait for a flight. You've got to come home and see mum. And I still remember how that felt. And we drove home from Sydney to Armadale, and I was never able to speak to her again. She had had a health episode in which she lost the power of speech. Um, so I could talk to her, and we had a lot of one-sided conversations. But even though my mum was someone who for years had had breast cancer, her death was very sudden and really unexpected and a really big shock to me. So there's so many questions that you would ask your mum if you knew she was going to die, and it seems bizarre to me now in hindsight that I never thought she was going to, and it was a real shock. So that happened when I was 21. And I think in hindsight it really shaped my twenties because I threw myself straight back into my study. I wasn't going to let it, you know, get in the way of any of those goals that I had. And I actually was doing, you know, it's normal to do four subjects at a time per semester, and I did six the semester after mum died. And I look at that now and go, oh, you know, trying to bury your head in the sand, March Ellen. And I was just a bit bit lost with where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do. Um, she had been a really major anchor for me throughout my life, as anyone's mother is, and then she wasn't there really suddenly. So I had a number of different jobs, and you know, on paper you could always say I was doing quite well, but you know, anyone who's just lost their anchor is always going to be adrift.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And how did that play out for you throughout your 20s? Did you feel like you needed any grief support at all, or did you just manage it in other ways? Um, it's not something that ever goes away, that loss, but getting through it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've had really good friends throughout a small core group of really good friends. I get along with a really wide range of people. I know a lot of people, but the core group of close friends is small. And you know, my best friend is from the Hunter Valley, and she drove up the night, you know, a couple of nights before mum died, and she stuck by my my side throughout that, cooked for my family. Um, and she was a major point of of reference for me throughout the following years, you know, just helping me when I needed the help. Um and I've, you know, obviously I'm close with other members of my family as well. They're the only people who could really understand what that felt like. But um I guess throughout my 20s, I just I travelled a fair bit overseas. I had lots of jobs but no career. Uh and I I was floating along a bit. So um I eventually did studied education, thinking, oh, that's you know, that sounds pretty good. I'm I reckon I could do that. And it wasn't until I got into a classroom doing Prac that I went, oh wow, I actually love this. And I'm very much a high school teacher. I'm not interested enough in craft to do primary. I really admire the patience of primary school teachers, but I don't have a. And um I started teaching full-time as soon as I finished my education degree, and that really helped me find my purpose. And I had really, really great early career leadership. And I I think that was a time in my life when I gained a lot of maturity and stopped being quite so lost after the death of mum. And that was, you know, nearly well, it was six years after she had died. So it took a little while to get to that point where I had my purpose again. And so I was teaching and I was still involved with the property at home at Gaira, and um and you know, started to find my feet a little bit. And it was sort of at that point when I had met Mick.
SPEAKER_00And um It's actually in dispute about how we met. I've got one story and he's got another. Well, well, he's not gonna get a chance to tell his story on here, so we'll just go with your side.
SPEAKER_02He maintains that we met a year before we met, and um he says we were all at a at a big table of friends for dinner and that uh we had met that night, but I maintain maybe he was on the bottom end of that table, there's no way I met him. And um anyway, eventually we were um partnered together in the bridal party of my best friend's wedding.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, this is like out of a rom com.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh, well, almost Steph, because um we got along so well and immediately there was like a really high degree of um I suppose measured chemistry because the reality was I was single and I was going, wow. And he was there with his girlfriend, who he is not a person that would ever, you know, I d I wouldn't chase a a guy in a relationship and he wouldn't, you know, look outside of a relationship either. So uh we went, oh, you're pretty amazing, and then we sp parted ways for a year. And um eventually that came to its natural end, and he gave me a call. And actually, maybe I gave him a call because it was something to do with work organizing work experience for a child that I was the year advisor of at the time at school, and then he just kept calling back, and we have spoken every day since. Um we yeah, our first date together was a ball to go and see those two best friends that we had been um in the bridal party for, and it was four days and like a 2,000 kilometre road trip, and that's a really good way to see if you like someone.
SPEAKER_00That is a very good way, and clearly you liked each other a lot because here you are three kids later. Um, how like I say, how did that relationship obviously at uh earlier you mentioned that he gave up his sort of job and career to make that move with you? Uh how long after you met did that happen and how did the relationship progress before kids?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I had been fairly successful in my teaching role in Armadale, and then we got together and it became apparent that you know this was a really serious relationship. He was shooing in the Hunter Valley in thoroughbred studs there, and obviously it was my job that was the more portable one at the time. So I moved to Miranda to be closer to him and you know, to start our life together, and we we were pretty quick about things, Steph. I was pushing 30 and we both wanted children and we both wanted to build this life together. So within 18 months we were, you know, had dated, had gone overseas, had become engaged, had been married, there was a baby on the way, we bought a small block together, and you know, hadn't really stopped to breathe at all. Um, so that was the life we were establishing there. And then um, you know, so we had Vivian in that time and she came along really easily. We went, oh, let's let's have a baby, and a baby arrived. It was, you know, apart from having hypermesis throughout the pregnancy, it was a very straightforward pregnancy. She was healthy the entire way. Um she was you know beautiful, the most beautiful baby in the hospital, of course, and that's what every mother thinks, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00But she was Oh, I don't know, mine was pretty ugly.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, um, like she she just came along really easily and and life was really charmed for a period of time there.
SPEAKER_00Um so early motherhood, early motherhood for you, like a duck to water, like how did it feel for you?
SPEAKER_02It felt great. Um, my father-in-law immediately gave me the nickname of the Brahmin Cow, which in our family is a really big point of respect because they are the most natural, ferocious mothers. So I I took to her immediately. I I hadn't always yearned for children, but I knew that motherhood was something that would happen for me as an abstract idea one day when the right person came along and he was the right person and he was the baby, and and we were so happy and we had wanted a big family, so we thought, let's go again, and and we did. And uh Vivian was only nine months old when I fell pregnant again. Uh, and that was easy too, until the day that it wasn't. And um it was actually on her first birthday. I have a photo of Mick and I and Vivian with a little cake, and I'm wearing a yellow jumper and you know, big smiles for Vivian's first birthday. And I was I would have been 12 weeks pregnant, and um went to the bathroom and I realized that things weren't going to be rosy anymore. And subsequently time went on, we didn't you don't know straight away that you're having a miscarriage. You think it it could be okay, and it took weeks. Um eventually I had to go to hospital and um have a DNC to you know finalise things. It had become apparent that the baby had died and and that was that was my first miscarriage. I'm so sorry, Helen Ellen, it's just the worst having been through it twice. It is the worst. It's really it's really aggressive too, and and you know, if ever you see it depicted in in film or even in conversation, people will say, I have a I had a miscarriage like it was an event. Yeah that happened in one day, and I don't think people realise that it can take weeks, and there are weeks in which you might not know yet and you're still hoping. And then there might be weeks where you do know, but it hasn't happened yet, and you know, you you go to hospital and you're in the maternity ward, going past the same rooms where the best day of your life happened months ago, and where the best day of the lives of those women you catch glimpses of in the beds as you get wheeled past in your own wheely bed are happening, and you're having the worst day of your life. And then you go home, and it's been weeks, so you've got to get along with life. You've got to get up and go to work or be at home and Manage things at home while your husband goes to work and life must continue. You cannot fall in a heat. Or that's how it is if you're a really goal-driven person who puts a lot of pressure on yourself. So, you know, you tell yourself that lots of people have a miscarriage. And people start coming out of the woodworks, don't they, when you've had one and telling you their stories, and that is, I find really a very kind thing to share. But you know, then we had another. And this is the middle of the COVID lockdowns throughout sort of 2020, 2021. And um, this time it was something that had to be so the first time I had an operation at DNC, the second time I had medication to help it to happen. And that was an extremely painful experience for me. And I remember becoming extremely sick after that. But beyond Mick being at home, no one else was really allowed to come home because of COVID and help and hang around. And I had Vivian, and she was, you know, maybe 14 or 15 months old by this stage. And um babies don't hang around for you to lay in bed and recuperate in a ladylike fashion. Uh they just need looking after, they need their mum. Uh, and then, you know, this went on. This went on for a really long time. Um and I think that the first time you call your friends, or you might send a message out letting them know what's happened to you, because it's this big monumental thing that's happened to you, and you need your close friends to know. But after the third time, and then after the fourth time, you can't, you don't want to keep sharing that same thing again and again when you haven't had the chance to see them in person in between. So you had four miscarriages in a row? Yeah, in a row. Oh my god. And it was all in a really short space of time because I'm really good at getting pregnant. Um I I have always been lucky in that when I decided I wanted to fall pregnant, I fell pregnant. But I'm not really good at carrying a baby to term, as we found out. And so these four miscarriages happened in a row, they were all different, but um, you know, and you would have your couple of really close friends that you would talk to at the time, but services were very limited throughout COVID. Um you would be you could go into hospital, do that have the treatment that was required, but then they were very quick about getting you home. Lots of phone conversations with a nurse going, oh, you know, you'll be right, stay at home. And I'm thinking, I don't I don't know how normal this is to be at home through this level of pain. Like that that doesn't seem right. But we were an hour from hospital and all of these things just contributed to this happening at home fairly alone.
SPEAKER_00Did you did you after four? I mean, after one, you want answers, you know. I think it's normal to feel like why my body's not doing, why is it not doing what it's supposed to do, especially after you've had a healthy baby already. Did you seek answers? At what point did you want those answers and did you get any?
SPEAKER_02Well, I started to really want answers, of course. Um, and I started to worry if there's some kind of major thing wrong that meant you know this wasn't going to happen for us. I always had Vivian to look at who's this happy, healthy child, and that was an extreme comfort to me, and also a really difficult thing to look, you know, a little girl to look at and think, I wonder if I can ever give you a sibling. And that was something I very, very much wanted to do for her and for our family and for me. And we had tests, none were forthcoming. Um the closest thing I had to an answer was the knowledge that the first miscarriage had been a little boy. Um and I guess because you know, I wanted this to happen, we would keep trying for another baby, and I would keep falling pregnant. So there is a limit to the amount of additional testing they will now do on a pregnant woman. So it got set aside, and each time with the new pregnancy would come a new wave of huge hope. I am an optimist, and and I had done this before, and it was going to be okay, and you know, subsequently it wasn't always. And then we fell pregnant again after the fourth miscarriage, um, and that pregnancy progressed. I got past that dreaded eight-week mark, nine-week mark, and went into the 10-week mark, and I was, you know, had hypermesis, was vomiting violently, which is such a bizarre thing to be excited about. And um went for my 12-week test, uh, sorry, I should say scan, and you know, the baby's bouncing around as healthy as a horse in there, and it's so exciting. I was alone because Mick was working that day and it was COVID, and you know, so it was just me and my sonographer in the room, and everything looked great. And a week later I had a phone call from my doctor, and I'm waiting for the um that lovely conversation of everything's fine that had had you know happened previously with Vivian's pregnancy. And she said, Oh, Ellen, I'd just like you to come in to the surgery. And I thought, okay, don't let yourself get upset. You know, everything's gonna be fine. I saw that baby, I can and I had started to feel flutters. Um so, you know, I could feel the baby's okay. And I went into my doctor's appointment, and and honestly at this point I was still thinking that things were gonna be fine, she might just need to do some additional NIPT testing or something like that. And my doctor very kindly told me that all of the scan markers suggested very strongly that there was a high likelihood my child had a trisomy disorder uh that could have been, you know, one of three trisomy disorders at the time that they weren't sure of, and you know, that I needed to go for some further testing. And we went to Newcastle for that further testing. Of course, it's COVID, so there were three weeks, I think, before we could get that done. And I had the amniocentesis done, and it was positive for a trisomy disorder uh for trisomy 13 disorder, which is called Edwards syndrome, and it's an unsurvivable condition that you know a child can't live outside the mother's body with that in the form that my child had it. So uh we had some really big decisions to make about what to do from that point on. I can only have cesareans because I have pins in my hips. If I carried that child through, it would have been very likely that the child would have, you know, died during the pregnancy anyway, if not immediately upon birth. And um so for medical reasons we felt like we had no option but to have a medical termination. Um and of course the pregnancy had continued to the point at that time that I had to give birth to her, and uh we you packed up, went to the maternity ward of all places, and I gave birth to a little girl who we named Adelaide, and she was very beautiful. She looked like a really beautiful little girl, and we had some time with her. Um and we had to give her back.
SPEAKER_00I'm so sorry. I really listening to you know everything you'd been through up until that point, I really thought that this pregnancy after four miscarriages, the story was heading in a and a happy direction. I just can't believe that you've had to go through all of that, Ellen. How I mean it's silly asking. I've stopped I try and stop asking people how did you get through it? Because I mean, you know, you just you just get up in them like you have to, you know, what's the alternative? Like you just keep living and you had your little girl as well and your family, but emotionally, honestly, how are you doing? Because you talked about when you lost your mum that you'd buried yourself, numbed a lot of that pain. Did you grieve your baby losses in that same way? How did you get through that? No, I didn't grieve them in the same way.
SPEAKER_02It was equally profound, but very different. And I became very practical in my grief. I would give myself a job, and I remember two days after I gave birth to Adelaide, I spent the day painting the garden fence at our property in Morundi because we were at that point getting it ready for sale to come up here to Merida. And I just need a job. I really need to do something with my hands when I'm upset. And so off I went and I painted that garden fence, and I painted it with a few tears, and I painted it with a lot of anger. Um, there's probably some, you know, really strong brush brush strokes on that fence. Um but throughout it, you know, the person I would turn to would always be Mick. Um, and thank goodness we have such a really strong relationship, and we always agreed that throughout this we had to turn to each other, we couldn't turn away because I think it's something like 70% of marriages after the loss of a child end in separation, and I did not want that, you know. I want our family to be um a family that is together and a family that you know that turns to each other when times are really tough, and and we have done that well. Um that's not to say it hasn't been really difficult sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Was there ever a moment when either of you said out loud, should we stop trying? This is too much. Ellen can't go through this again, your family can't go through this again because I've spoken to so many women who have lost, and I think everyone's capacity to keep going is different. Everyone is different. I don't think I could keep going after what you've just said you've been through. Yet you did. But was there ever a point that you didn't want to or thought you couldn't?
SPEAKER_02No, there was never a point I didn't want to keep going. I would have sacrificed myself on that altar of having another child. And I don't necessarily think that's something to for others to aim towards, but but that's how otherwise. I'm really bullheaded and I'm someone who likes to pursue what I want with a lot of intent. And I just kept thinking I've done it before, I should be able to do it again. And Mick had said, you know, I think you you might need a bit of a break. And I would give myself a break, a break for a month. But at no point did I not know, you know, exactly where I was along a cycle or how many days, or you know, I and I I couldn't help that. I couldn't help but completely treat it like that was my current goal and the thing I was working towards, which is I mean, slightly nuts. Um and then, you know, we were we did have some time where I just said, right, I I need to take a break, I need to let my body heal. And I had given birth to Adelaide on August, in August the second, and um we moved up to Queensland, uh, we sold the house in October, moved up here in December, and I was pregnant with Pippi in January.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so this next pregnancy has a happy ending. Yeah, it does, it really does. At what point at what point with her did you believe that this would result in a healthy living baby? When she was in my arms.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh she was not an easy pregnancy. I get high premises through each of them. And I had had, you know, coming up to a new state, extremely remote, I had my concerns about what my maternal health care would look like in a really remote location. Uh, as it turns out, maternal health care in Longreach is gold star standard, and I would really recommend that to anyone that experienced. But I had had two inconclusive NIPT test results during Pippi's pregnancy, and they didn't want to continue to do more NIPT testing because of those inconclusive results. Now you get inconclusive when there could be issues like mosaic trisomy disorders, and and of course, I knew what that meant for me, so I was extremely worried about it, and it wasn't until I was 22 weeks pregnant I was able to get into an obstetric specialist in Townsville who was able to do some scans and confirm for me that we had a completely healthy baby on board, and you know, by this stage I had been pretty worried for a lot of a lot of time. Um 22 weeks is a really long time to not be sure of where you're at. Yeah. And um I was just thrilled to still be pregnant though, and she came along in September of 2022, and she has kept me on my toes ever since. Vivian was the unicorn baby that slept and ate and did all of the things, and Pippi, the baby that I yearned for, is the baby that didn't sleep, had trouble eating, had you know, a laryngo malacia situation with her breathing and has given us so many health scares in her life. Um, but she's here and she is she is a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00And after bringing her into the world and probably took you a little while to come to terms with the fact she was there and healthy uh after so much loss, you know, again, you I get get the vibe, you're uh get on with it, achieve your goals, as you said. You said it yourself to keep going, keep going. Did you ever feel with her that right, my two girls is enough? Because you mentioned at the start you did want a big family. How long did it take you to literally get back on the horse again, you know, and think no, we're not complete yet. I I want another baby, I will keep going.
SPEAKER_02Well, after the second caesare, the doctor suggested I needed to wait at least nine months to consider becoming pregnant again, so we did that.
SPEAKER_00That would have been hard for you to wait.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, Henry was born actually 19 months after Pippi. Oh my god. So she was a 19-month-old when Henry was born, and Henry was the easiest uh pregnancy I had, I think. I wasn't quite so sick with him. And along he came and he has cruised through the world ever since. He's just happy to be here. So we have our beautiful three children. There was never any idea of, you know, we'll try for a boy or any rubbish like that. You know, we were just so when you've been through the losses that we've been through, having the baby is just the best. So, you know, it was just a beautiful coincidence that he came along and he's a healthy, happy little boy who um is is quite a good baby to to be the mum of. He's a nice one. No, not that there's bad ones, I don't mean that. I just mean you know, some are harder than others. And um Pip had been my really difficult baby to to mother, and Henry was really settled and still is.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad that your story has a beautiful ending with your three beautiful children, but God, it's been hard. And I guess on a more uplifting note, I wanted to ask you what's it been like being a mum of three, and then navigating where you live. Um I guess juggling the realities of schooling and and childcare and life as a mum of three. Once the dust settled and you you had your three, what's that been like?
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure the dust has settled, Steph. Did it ever settle?
SPEAKER_00Actually, dumb question, Def.
SPEAKER_02But I know what you're asking. And um, so Henry is 20 months old now, and he he is the full stop at the end of our family journey. We are, you know, our family is complete. I think um coming up here has been great for us as a family. It certainly injected, you know, a pep in both our steps. We love it here. We are so happy to be on the land. And um both of us had always sort of wanted to get back onto the land eventually, and it hasn't been though, without its, you know, I'm gonna say challenges, but what I mean by that is just the enormous workload of moving to a new property and getting to know where the pipes run, working out, you know, which troughs you've got to be on top of for pumping, or um, you know, the way cattle move through a paddock better than others, mix had to get a team of working dogs going. Um, all these things that just come with returning to the land have been happening at the same time as we've had to make a whole new group of friends because I I had been up here to this property, it's been in my family for a long time, but I had never lived here. And, you know, we had to start from scratch and find our new community and start building our new village. And we we are incredibly lucky that we have built some beautiful friendships around this district. Um, there are really wonderful people here, and it's at a time where people seem to have come back to the land and they've got families as well, so with children, and that has been a really great way to find connections. I think it would be a very different story if we were surrounded by um, you know, other properties where there were only people of an older generation or people that didn't have children yet or something like that. It's been really nice that we're surrounded by other people with families. Um to to answer your question, I suppose, about um how it's going and has the dust settled. I think about six or eight months into after Henry's arrival, I realised I was just trying to do too much. I had a to-do list that actually wasn't possible to get through. And it was also coming up to the period of time where Vivian was going to move from being a kinder kid, which is what we call our preschool up here in Queensland, and become a full-time prep student through distance education. And we had to, you know, we didn't we didn't have a house where we have a place for someone to live or um a place for a school room. And so we conducted the major renovation of an old shearer's quarters and created into a residence for an educator who helps with younger children and Vivian when she's not at school, and then we've created a beautiful schoolroom as well, um, which is a really important place for her to. Have to come and learn and to conduct her schooling. You can't do it at the kitchen table for six years, all that, although look, other families do it really successfully. I don't think it would work in our family.
SPEAKER_00And what has that journey been like transitioning to being a distance ed school the air family and then childcare and the realities and the costs? Because this is something you're pretty passionate about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so um we uh we brought an educator into our home and she lives here at the quarters, and um Liv has totally changed our our life as a family. It means that our children have access to early childhood education that is really normal and readily readily available in urban areas, but it just is almost impossible to get in extremely remote areas unless you're going to employ someone to do it. So for our family, the way that has looked is that we go through a program called in-home care. And in-home care is for families who cannot access any alternatives. So the major one and you know, the one on which I speak on behalf of is families who have extreme distance to town. And there's also approval for in-home care through being a child with complex medical needs, or um, if you're if the parents work really non-standard and variable shift hours, um, so you know, paramedics, night nurses, things like that. Um they're very stringent about who can access in-home care, which is a way of subsidising the employment of a person to come to your property and provide care for your children. And it means that childcare subsidy is is partially used for that. Um When I first started this with Vivian, that was a financially accessible thing to do. Um and of course, in recent years, we've seen our Labour government elected on a platform of promising uh to lower the cost of living. Primarily, one of the major functions of which they promised would be to make childcare accessible for all families, so that you know, the idea being that two parents can work. And and what a great thing that would be. Um so and simultaneously increasing the wages of childcare workers. Again, I don't think anyone's arguing that childcare workers have historically been undervalued and that a a wage rise for childcare workers is a reasonable thing. But in doing that, there has been uh a function created called the worker retention payment that is applied to childcare centres to allow the wage rise to happen, but not to allow that that price to get kicked back to parents. The worker retention payment is not being applied to in-home care. So my bill this week was more than, or sorry, last fortnight I should say, was over $1,400, where it had previously been an amount that was manageable. So we are looking at having to say goodbye to an educator who has totally transformed our family life, who has allowed me to continue to professionally work and contribute economically to our family and to our business, and you know that's great for my own mental health. And that is true of so many women. We women want to work now. We've created a society where women are people that want to work and be economic contributors. So we have to support the children. Yeah, should have the choice too. Choice is the point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and what you're saying is my understanding is that for in-home care, which affects so many rural families like yourself, that subsidy is not being passed on your having to foot the bill.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so childcare subsidy is in place, but the worker retention payment is not. And it just means that um, you know, we're paying four times what our urban counterparts are paying. And I think by any measure that's unfair.
SPEAKER_00And what does this do to rural families? Like what what what's the impact? Because obviously it's financial, but it's not just it's not just about what you've got to splash cash-wise, the runoff effects for rural families is enormous.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's major. So, you know, this is untenable to continue with. Um and families will be saying goodbye to educators who are happy in their job and would like to stay there. And the families would like to retain them, but they won't be able to financially do that. So um I suppose what's going to happen is that the educators will will leave. And who becomes the primary caregiver again, our to our it's usually mum, isn't it? It's you know, it's mum that has that job full to her. So she won't be trying to reduce the amount of what she's doing in terms of farm business work or farm work or whatever it is. She'll be trying to fit around that. And, you know, women's mental health is going to be majorly affected by this. But in addition, it means that in a situation like where we have Vivian in the schoolroom, there'll be two tiny little people interrupting that and it will interrupt the learning of you know those students who are trying to do distance education as well. So what would you like to see the government do to support rural families like yours? It's so simple. Include in-home care with the worker retention payment. Full stop. That would fix it.
SPEAKER_00Why do you think it hasn't been included? Because it just seems so obvious. You know, when again, rural and regional Australia gets left behind, because this affects more than just rural Australia, of course, but for the purposes of our community at Motherland, just seems mind-boggling that something, a simple fix has just been glossed over.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I am speaking as the, you know, just a mother who and part of a family who accesses in-home care. So I don't know the internal workings of why it hasn't been included. There are only there are 3,000 places for in-home care across Australia, and only a thousand of those are act, you know, currently utilized. So this this wouldn't be a gigantic amount of money in the scope of early education across the nation. I cannot tell you why it hasn't been included. I think it's probably just been forgotten. And let's face it, those thousand families aren't a lot of votes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's heartbreaking to hear because I imagine you're hearing, because you have become this accidental advocate. You've, you know, shared your story, and all of a sudden, you know, you're on the media, and then this woman called Steph from Motherland like twists your arm to get on the podcast to talk about this issue too. Um, but what are you hearing from other rural families that have no doubt, you know, expressed what's happening for them personally too?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, I'm hearing much the same as what as what we are experiencing. Um, you know, and just that total it's just gobsmacking why this can't be, you know, included. Um and you know, rural families are pretty resilient and they they put up with a lot, but this will really change the landscape of our community. It's really, you know, it's not unusual to to have an educator that lives around your home area with you here and that lets families, you know, thrive. I will be really interested to see, you know, what our social makeup looks like in the coming years if this isn't addressed, because there will be families who will struggle to to stay on the land without two parents to to work there. Um it will be we'll we'll just have to see what happens, I suppose. Ideally, we won't we won't see what happens because this will be addressed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And but like you're so right earlier, like this is not just a a simple issue that's just a monetary, it creates pressure for families mentally, like you mentioned, mental health of mums in particular, and families staying on the land. Like it's it's huge. It's and unless you live that life and understand the intricacies of a rural family, it's impossible to see just how dangerous, you know, these sort of things can be. And I suppose for you now, what's next? You know, it's is there a plan? What is your plan given how expensive this is for your family? And no doubt some families will be able to cop the extra payment, it might be very painful. For others, as you said, it's just it's no option, they're gonna have to let those educators go. But for you, what is the next few months, 12 months look like given this pressure?
SPEAKER_02Well, the next few months will look like um digging into our savings to retain our educator as long as we can, um, hoping that you know this is addressed. But hope is not a strategy. And beyond that, I suppose it would just look like next year potentially um not having someone in our home or put or maybe having someone that is not employed through the in-home care system, and therefore, you know, that opens up to a realm of uh, you know, not having people with the appropriate checks and not having qualified educators. It seems uh really odd to me that that would be seen as an acceptable thing to happen. Um, you know, we're very surely we live in a society where we understand that the people looking after children in early childhood should have appropriate checks and qualifications to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And that's scary, even the thought of that. And I guess just finally on this issue, Ellen, again, well aware that you're coming at it from a rural mother's perspective. Have you been made aware of where other families can go to advocate or a petition? Like, is there anything because there'll be some families listening who either are going through what you're going through or know families who who use and rely on in home care and this is affecting them. Where do you where do we go with our feelings?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, take your feelings and write about them. And uh and I would address that writing to a local MP and in addition, all the senators in your state. Um, because you know, really this is the only handle we have to do that. Um, also, of course, to the early education minister. And I I just think that um really that is the only way that we are going to see change on this issue to to have um the government agree that this is a a viable care system that we need to to fund in parity with urban childcare. It just is astonishing to me that you have to advocate for equality of children in 2026. They're children. We're not asking for additional payment, we're asking for parity.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for being such a strong advocate and for raising this issue. Again, you know, you reached out to me, and uh yeah, this is so important and it affects families in so many ways. So thank you for sharing your story. I guess on a more positive note, you've got a lot going on thinking about that. There's been a lot in your early motherhood journey. What is some of the joy you're experiencing when you're not worrying about, you know, this educator piece? But what is the joy you're experiencing with your three kids, including your little full stop little boy? Um, yeah, what what is it like at the moment for you?
SPEAKER_02It's funny, so I'm I'm really cognisant of the fact that I've just told you what probably sounds like a really sad listen, but we are a really happy family and we have a really great life. So, you know, I take joy in the different personalities of my children. I love seeing, you know, Vivian learning day to day and becoming like a really avid reader and all the different facts that she comes and tells me about that will occasionally drive a mother crazy. And I love, you know, the naughtiness that Pippi involves herself in daily, that is really just watching her become a really strong-willed assertive young lady, and I'm sure that will serve her incredibly well in the future. And Henry is just at that age of discovery where he's learning to talk and starting to formulate, you know, more than one word together in a sentence, and my joy comes in in the changes that happen day to day and the funny little things that they say, and seeing them master something that they've set out to do. There is nothing better than you know that feeling that comes when you see your six-year-old daughter riding behind a big mob of cattle, finally confident enough to get off the lead and you know doing her very best to show that horse who's boss. Her grandm her late grandmother would be incredibly proud of that.
SPEAKER_00That is so beautiful, and it's a really lovely way to finish. I love that you said yes, parts of your story were sad, but I think also that's in the past, not to say it's not part of your story, but we've talked a lot of the hard stuff that's been in the past. You've created this family. Yes, there's the hard piece with the education, and that's going to be something that we continue to grapple with in rural Australia. But I love that overall, you know, you are clearly, I can see you on screen now. It's hard people listening that don't get to see what I see, but you are so bubbly, and I get this beautiful energy from you, and I'm so pleased to hear that you are such a beautiful, happy family, despite everything that's been thrown your way. And I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your story. Just for everyone listening, I had no idea. I I knew that you'd lost your mum, and I obviously know about this advocacy piece and and the educator and childcare piece, early education piece, and I thought we'd spend the bulk of the time talking about that. I had absolutely no idea about everything you've been through to become a mum of three at all. So I'm just flawed. Thank you for sharing that, and it's so important we talk about that stuff too. So I just wanted to acknowledge that um that that was unplanned. As in, as I didn't know about it, and you've obviously felt uh safe enough to open up about it. I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing all the ups and downs. This a big journey you've been on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I um I'm a little quietly shocked at myself for having shared all of that.
SPEAKER_02I haven't spoken publicly about it before, and I guess you just can't agree to talk about your motherhood journey without being willing to be honest about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and thank you for for that so much. It will help so many other mums listening. Um and I look forward to staying in touch. Um, you know, this will air in a couple of weeks, but I I'm I don't imagine there's gonna be a silver bullet solution to the to the early educator piece and and all that in the next few weeks, but you will keep me keep me in touch on and how you're going with that personally, and and no doubt I'll keep following it in the news as well, and hopefully there is some good news for rural families in the future.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you for being so willing to shed some light on that.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, Ellen. You were absolutely wonderful, and um I hope to stay in touch. Yeah, that'll be great stuff. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Don't forget, think about when was the last time you had space to think about what's next. Parent Pathways is a free voluntary program supporting parents and carers with mentoring, financial help, and real guidance. Access up to twelve hundred and fifty dollars a year, search training alliance group parent pathways. T's and C's apply. Details are in today's show notes. In the meantime, that's it from me, everyone. Thank you for listening. I'll catch you next week.