Laughter filled the hour when hosts Dr. Willow and Leah sat down with New York Times bestselling author, playwright, and screenwriter, Mary HoneyB Morrison. An unapologetic voice with 27 fiction novels and three non-fiction books in print, Morrison strives to eradicate double standards while celebrating women’s pursuit of pleasure. The ladies covered topics ranging from banning dolls for kids to the latest sex toys to raising responsible sex-positive teens, the steps behind writing successful novels, and women ejaculating and enjoying anal sex. Nothing was off the table. So sit back, tune in, and fall in love with Mary HoneyB Morrison.
CONNECT WITH MARY HONEYB MORRISON
OTHER EPISODE LINKS
Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. https://www.sexreimagined.com/the-king-and-queen-of-hearts
Awaken Arousal Oil Lubricant "I had a 3-minute orgasm and then a 5-minute orgasm." - Beth https://exploreforia.com/awaken-so?irclickid=wyXW6byI5xyNWouwIoQAUS1GUkAx4m1JsS6bSc0&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Impact&utm_campaign=Sex%20Reimagined&utm_c
SxR Hotline | SxR Website | YouTube | TikTok | Pinterest | Instagram | Dr. Willow's Website | Leah's Website
Laughter filled the hour when hosts Dr. Willow and Leah sat down with New York Times bestselling author, playwright, and screenwriter, Mary HoneyB Morrison. An unapologetic voice with 27 fiction novels and three non-fiction books in print, Morrison strives to eradicate double standards while celebrating women’s pursuit of pleasure. The ladies covered topics ranging from banning dolls for kids to the latest sex toys to raising responsible sex-positive teens, the steps behind writing successful novels, and women ejaculating and enjoying anal sex. Nothing was off the table. So sit back, tune in, and fall in love with Mary HoneyB Morrison.
CONNECT WITH MARY HONEYB MORRISON
OTHER EPISODE LINKS
Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. https://www.sexreimagined.com/the-king-and-queen-of-hearts
Awaken Arousal Oil Lubricant "I had a 3-minute orgasm and then a 5-minute orgasm." - Beth https://exploreforia.com/awaken-so?irclickid=wyXW6byI5xyNWouwIoQAUS1GUkAx4m1JsS6bSc0&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Impact&utm_campaign=Sex%20Reimagined&utm_c
SxR Hotline | SxR Website | YouTube | TikTok | Pinterest | Instagram | Dr. Willow's Website | Leah's Website
Ep.18 | SxS Mary HoneyB | Transcription
[00:00:00] Willow: All right. You are going to have so much fun in this next interview with Mary HoneyB Morrison. I mean, we were basically just laughing and giggling the whole time. You're gonna have so much fun with us, and you're gonna be huge fan of this woman by the end of this interview. She is amazing. One of the things that we highlighted and talked about was the importance of Never Let a Man Come First, and that was a very in depth piece of our conversation that you're gonna want to tune in and probably take notes on.
[00:00:30] SxR Announcer: Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free. And pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.
[00:00:39] Willow: New York Times bestselling author, Mary HoneyB Morrison is with us in the house today and we are so, so excited, so thrilled. This is gonna be a phenomenal interview. So HoneyB believes that women must manifest their own destiny.
She is an unapologetic voice in this world with 27 fiction novels and three non-fiction books in print. She strives to eradicate the double standards in life. And one of her books who Nani Paradise talks about 21 types of female orgasms. So we're definitely gonna be talking about, we definitely, we'll be talking about that.
And Miss HoneyB hopes to elevate and liberate females all across the world. And I understand that you're currently adapting your novel Single Husbands for film, so that's really exciting. Congratulations on that endeavor.
[00:01:38] Mary HoneyB: Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I am. It's time. Way overdue.
[00:01:43] Willow: Yes, yes. Sometimes these projects take years to get to.
[00:01:47] Mary HoneyB: Yeah, they do.
[00:01:48] Leah: One of the things we'll be talking about today also is Never Let a Man Come First. And I understand that is also a name of one of your books.
[00:01:56] Mary HoneyB: It is. And that is a very important book that I wrote because I feel with young girls and women, a lot of times they do allow guys to come first. I don't understand why, in any sense of the word, but you know, to each its own. But I think women need to stop it. Just stop it, right?
[00:02:17] Willow: Just don't do that anymore. So tell us.
[00:02:19] Mary HoneyB: Not at all.
[00:02:20] Willow: Tell us the importance? Tell us why? Give us the why.
[00:02:24] Mary HoneyB: The why with a never let a man come first is because I feel, from childhood, a lot of women are given baby dolls. I'm not a proponent of baby dolls. I know some people may object or disagree with me, but I'll tell you why I feel that way, it's because when you give a child a toddler, an infant, a baby doll, what you do is you teach them to love something outside of themselves, instead of loving from within, like inside out and loving themselves.
And then they grew up to be women who actually still love the same way. They'll love the men more than they love themselves, their children more than they love themselves. But it starts so early and it seems so innocent. But why should a baby carry around a baby? I just don't get it. I'm not for it.
[00:03:13] Willow: That's really interesting. I've never thought about that.
[00:03:17] Leah: That could be one of those key foundational imprints.
[00:03:20] Willow: Certainly, let's stop giving young girls Barbie dolls, especially. But yeah, taking it even further back to a baby doll. Yeah. You're the baby. Take care of yourself and learn about yourself and love yourself.
[00:03:34] Mary HoneyB: Exactly, because that Barbie doll, when I had one, I kept trying to spread her legs and see what was down there.
[00:03:40] Willow: And there's nothing there.
[00:03:41] Leah: There's nothing there.
[00:03:42] Mary HoneyB: I haven't, yeah, exactly.
[00:03:46] Leah: Yeah, that is really interesting.
[00:03:48] Mary HoneyB: We are so right.
[00:03:49] Leah: Yeah, there's boobs, but nothing else.
[00:03:51] Willow: And there's androgynous below the belt.
[00:03:53] Leah: And this very particular figure, I think the Barbie company has been trying to make some headway in terms of creating fuller shaped Barbies and more barbies of color and trying to shift their brand awareness.
I have a, I have no deep knowledge of this whatsoever, but I have heard there's a been a few documentaries trying to address this.
[00:04:21] Leah: Not quite at the level though that you are HoneyB regarding what are some of the foundational imprints that teaches us, especially as women, to care less for ourselves and be pleasing to others because I think it probably also goes beyond just having a doll where we get the messaging in our culture about who we're supposed to be. One of the messages I really remember is "be a good girl, don't be that kind of girl."
And I've been really just in the last couple of days, we did an interview with Om Rupani that talks about the intersection of Tantra and BDSM and how for a lot of people, the eroticism of their greatest fears gets played out in some of the work in that arena. And I was given some thought to that because I've always known about this humiliation play and I was like, that doesn't sound very nice. I don't know that I feel attracted to that. But I started to have this pivotal sense of being so afraid of being labeled the slut, when I was coming of age, even though there was a part of me that very much felt turned on and alive and wanted to act out all these things and was afraid of getting caught and had these secrets.
And now my mind is expanding into, oh, so this idea of being in a sexual situation where someone's calling me a dirty little slut, and bend over, and do this, and do that, and I'm kind of getting a little hot, oh my gosh, that is actually really appealing to me now. I get to play into, yeah, why couldn't I just completely glorify and celebrate this inner sacred slut inside of me when I was younger, coming of age too? Now I only get the chance to break the rules, and say enough is enough. So anyways, this is all just arising in the moment, but-
[00:06:19] Mary HoneyB: I love it.
[00:06:19] Leah: -it kinda comes back over to you this,this younger imprinting that tells us who we're supposed to be instead of nurtures who we really are. And how do you support yourself and other female related bodies to take back some ownership of that?
[00:06:37] Mary HoneyB: Well, one of the things I know for sure is that another chapter and Never Let a Man Come First is value your vagina because a lot of women aren't comfortable with the P word. I don't know what I can say on the show or not.
[00:06:53] Willow: You can say whatever you want. You can say Pussy. Yep.
[00:06:55] Mary HoneyB: Thank you.You know I say it so freely when I'm talking, but a lot of women are not comfortable with the word pussy. And with Punani Paradise, I was even told, well, maybe you could write something cleaner for women that are over 50 and having sex. I'm like, look, if you think that pussy is a bad word, then you think that your vagina is a bad thing. So you have to get comfortable with words because they translate. But we are taught as young girls, oh, you don't say that. It's like, you don't touch yourself, but guys do all the time, so why shouldn't we? Leah, like you were saying, why shouldn't we be free as women? So I do believe in the value of vagina.
Another example I use when I'm speaking is I'll say, oh, can somebody gimme the keys to their car? And people look real strange and they might hand it to you. I say, okay, thank you. Can I have this? Oh no? Cell phone? Can somebody gimme a cell phone? Can I keep it? No. I say, then why do you give your vagina away, so freely, to somebody you don't know?
You didn't put much thought into it, but you wouldn't give away your house or your car. So why are you giving away your vagina? It's of value.
[00:08:12] Willow: Learning to value this sacred space in your body. And yeah, while we're on the topic of words the Sanskrit word yoni does mean sacred space. So words are so powerful and, we actually just did a whole podcast on this, Leah & I.
[00:08:28] Leah: Talking about dirty talk, and pillow talk, and these love languages. And what's true about embracing all of it? I mean, why have to choose one or the other? Sometimes it's not about an or, it's about an and. And so it's how can you have both a pussy, and a yoni, and a cunt, and a vagina, and you get to take the language back? Yes, it's yours to make it purposeful, meaningful, sacred, trashy. Or raunchy? Or dirty? You know, it gets to be ours.
[00:09:01] Mary HoneyB: Exactly.
[00:09:02] Leah: We get to take ownership of this, including how we value our yoni, our pussy, who we want to give it away to. If it's just for our pleasure. Do what you want. You don't have to take the shame from other people as long as you're staying awake. If you want to rub it against something for the pure pleasure of you rubbing it up against something, who's anyone to say that's right or wrong?
I think... I think where we bring in how do we want to explore that is how awake are we being with it? If we're being unconscious, and we're just being driven by this unexplored, unexamined, primal instinct, then we may not realize our motivation underneath, which could be coming from a place that's less of love and more of wounding, in which case I think it's a worthy thing to reexamine.
[00:09:57] Mary HoneyB: Yes, I would agree with that. Women do have to just embrace, and like you're saying, wi yoni the vagina. I was a curious teenager, I mean teenager, very young. I started having sex at 14. Only because I was curious. You hear so many themes about it. Sex is great, it feels good, and nobody prepares us right for the losing of our virginity. Like what? Okay. But once you get past that and have that first orgasm, for me it was a clitorial orgasm from oral copulation. I started skipping school and everything. I was like, this is the best!
[00:10:37] Willow: Who needs to learn math when I could go have a clitoral orgasm?
[00:10:43] Leah: Totally!
[00:10:43] Mary HoneyB: I like that Willow!
[00:10:46] Leah: Math class, or.....?
[00:10:49] Mary HoneyB: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I got a phone call a couple of times, did you say you were late today? Why didn't you get to school? Look, I had other things to do. More important things, honestly. Yes, more important. But for women, we do need to be free like that.
I started exploring with sex toys very early and buying them and trying them, and Ben Wa Balls, and exercising. I was just a curious person. I wanted to know as much as I possibly could, which of course lived itself to write all these's books, right?
[00:11:24] Leah: Right on. Where were you get the influence? How did you know? Because I imagine being your girlfriend, back in high school and stuff, I can see you HoneyB being the center of attention and telling everyone, oh, wait until you hear about this. And being able to introduce the latest, greatest thing? How did you become aware of sex toys and having courage and the bravery to go buy them? What was that process like?
[00:11:50] Mary HoneyB: Just being curious. Because you might be surprised, in high school I was very quiet. I was actually the shy girl and that's why I know even today don't overlook the shy girl.
[00:12:05] Leah: That's right.
[00:12:06] Mary HoneyB: Because she might be doing a lot of things, and I was dating young men that weren't even in high school.
They were like 21, 22, things like that because they were more experienced. They usually had cars. You could travel and do things. So, I was just curious. And then dating older guys, when you're that much younger in high school, you get to learn a lot too from them, you know? And so that part was super sexy and inviting and I just wanted more of it. And even fellatio, I was curious, okay, how does this work, again? It's like, okay. So I wasn't the one that people sat around and talked to, but now when we do high school reunions, or get-togethers, like we just did about a month or so ago, okay, everybody wants Mary at the party. Like, what are we talking about today?
[00:13:00] Mary HoneyB: I just bought that Rose. You know the rose everybody's talking about for my sisters and my girlfriend
[00:13:05] Leah: What Rose?
[00:13:06] Willow: Is this like some kinda fancy vibrator?
[00:13:08] Leah: What is the Rose? Tell us.
[00:13:12] Mary HoneyB: The roses is so cute. I wish I had one within reach, but I don't, because I keep stuff on display. But they come in different colors and there's a little opening at the center of the rose and when you turn it on, it actually suctions your clitoris.
[00:13:33] Leah: It's a Sucker.
[00:13:34] Willow: Yum!
[00:13:35] Mary HoneyB: Suck, suck, suck suck..
[00:13:36] Willow: Now we all need to go get a rose.
[00:13:39] Mary HoneyB: Yes, yes, it is wonderful. Let me just say that, it's another wonderful toy.
[00:13:44] Leah: Oh, well thank you for this public service announcement. Now I'll go get roses.
[00:13:50] Willow: It's a whole different kind of rose. So, okay, so we've been talking about clitorial orgasms. And the rose, give ya that too, but what are these 21 types of female orgasms? Enlighten us, darling.
[00:14:02] Mary HoneyB: Absolutely. The first thing I talk about in the book, right? Section one, you have to start with the Kegels, right? You have to start with your exercises, because a lot of times for women, that makes all the difference between having an orgasm and not having one, is exercising your vagina.
So then I go into the vagina, the vaginal orgasms, the clitorial, the anal, because some women can only have anal orgasms. They can't have vaginal orgasms. So we have to look at it like that as well. One of my favorites I like to talk about is fantasy fucking, cause it's all in the head, right?
[00:14:44] Leah: That's right, yes.
[00:14:46] Mary HoneyB: Women, we can have an orgasm with anyone, anytime, anywhere. I mean, literally on a date. If your mind is such that you can program it to get aroused it just blows men away. What was that movie? When Harry Met Sally.
[00:15:07] Leah: That wonderful meal she was eating in the diner?
[00:15:10] Willow: Where she fakes some orgasm in the diner.
[00:15:13] Mary HoneyB: Exactly, but you don't even have to fake it. You can actually make it happen without touching yourself. We talk about that, I talk about the different Chakras, I talk about that. I talk about the 60 second orgasm and the 60 minute orgasm.
[00:15:30] Leah: Ohhhhh, say more.
[00:15:32] Mary HoneyB: So women can get it in 60 seconds if you're already aroused. By the time he puts the head in, if he said, just let me put the head in, you are literally done. Forget about it.
[00:15:42] Leah: Just the tip honey, just the tip.
[00:15:48] Mary HoneyB: Yes. Yes. And it is just so many ways that we can climax. We know nipple stimulation can lead to orgasm.
[00:15:59] Willow: So, yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:01] Mary HoneyB: And the different erogenous zones, there's so many things. I just stopped at 21 when I did the plug.
[00:16:08] Leah: But not because there was only 21.
[00:16:11] Mary HoneyB: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:16:13] Willow: Your brain is really your primary sexual center in your body. When your mind is aroused, and then you drop that arousal direct it to your inner elbow or the pinky toe, you can have orgasms in any place in your body. So really powerful.
[00:16:32] Leah: I think that's an important book that you've got on the shelf for people, because we get really limited in what we believe we're capable of.
If you think that you can have an orgasm at the tip of your clitoris, and then you find those very elusive for you, you start to create a story about, I can't come. And it's not for me. And I'm not okay. And everyone else can do it, and why can't I?
And the next thing you know you feel broken, and you've got a problem, and you gotta see a doctor. When really we've just got a shitty education. No one's told us that our whole body is a vehicle for orgasm. That there's energy-gasms. Every flexible joint and a bend in the body has all these extra nerve endings and those are all secondary erogenous zones. And all this orgasm thing is this energy and movement. And if you can start to expand your thinking, then pleasure expands too. Boy, that can give us faith and hope if we have felt a little hopeless that pleasure and orgasm in particular is elusive for us, or that there's something wrong, that we're not having more of it.
[00:17:39] Willow: Absolutely.
[00:17:40] Mary HoneyB: And women deserve to have more of it. Cause we are the ones that give birth to children, so, guys don't have to go through the pregnancy and all of that. So we deserve to have, we deserve to have as many orgasms as we would like. So that's the thing that I like when I'm talking to women, doesn't matter what age.
I find that older women want to talk about these types of things, but a lot of times they didn't grow up with talking about sex and pleasure and how to pleasure yourself. There's literally no reason for a woman not to have an orgasm. I mean, like none. Because we are super loaded. With so much to give.
[00:18:22] Leah: So what have been some of the challenges or obstacles that you've had to overcome in your journey as a sexual woman?
[00:18:28] Mary HoneyB: I'm sorry. Something did come to mind that I thought was, was terribly funny for me.
[00:18:35] Willow: Do share, Do share.
[00:18:39] Mary HoneyB: So I did say that when I was 14, I started having sex. As the age of 14 and fast forward, I'm now 16 and I'm having the clitorial orgasms. I'm enjoying sex. The other thing that I was learning about my body was that I didn't know what squirting was. At 16, I had no idea what was happening, so I'm like, oh my God, I gotta stop. I gotta go to the bathroom. And he's like, no, don't stop. And I said, no, really, I gotta go to the bathroom. He's like, no, don't stop. So, by the third, no, don't stop.
[00:19:17] Willow: It just happens, it came.
[00:19:19] Mary HoneyB: And I find that 90% of women have the ability to square, but only 10% of women do, because they stop. I was undereducated at that time. I didn't know what was going on. Sure. So for me, that was an awakening to let me know that women are complex. That's why I started going to the toy store by myself. It's like, let me see. And to this day, I have all kinds of toys. My girlfriends come to shop at my house when I need a new vibrator. Come on over, I got something in there for you. So, Those types of things were interesting.
But the other side too that happens with women, that's not always pleasurable. I can say that. It's some of the things that guys do to us, like rape. I wish I could just express to more women that's not our fault and to not allow that to suppress them. It happens, but let's just take that energy and let's just keep going, because bad things happen to good people. Let's keep going in this world of sex, and explore ourselves, and touch ourselves.
The discovery of masturbation, I think that was one of the best, one of the best, for me anyway. I dunno about you guys, but when you first discovered that you can do it all by yourself.
[00:20:39] Willow: I mean, I feel like I discovered when I was like eight or nine my years old.
[00:20:43] Mary HoneyB: Oh, masturbation?
[00:20:45] Willow: I was so young.
[00:20:47] Leah: I remember feeling so much more actually at those younger years. I remember having a sheet in between my legs and being six or seven and feeling all this sensation. And then, there was an ebb and flow where self pleasuring seemed less interesting. And I've had to do a U-turn and go, wait a minute, wait a minute, there's so many layers and levels to self pleasuring.
It's funny, I was thinking about that today. I was putting my vibrator away. All these clients who come through and they're like, oh, I just kind of rub one out and go to sleep. I'm like, oh, so limiting, there's just so much more that's possible. You can spend a whole hour or two hours with yourself in a self pleasuring state. It doesn't mean that you're inside of your vagina the entire time. It could mean that you're spending, significant time just being in flow, in a dance state, or rubbing oil all over your body. Or pulling cards or burning incense, or whatever.
[00:21:47] Leah: Or reading erotica or one of a HoneyB's books.
[00:21:50] Willow: That's right, reading Punany Paradise.
[00:21:54] Leah: Yes, that's right. That's one of my favorite places to self-pleasure is actually reading erotica, reading a story. And using my imagination. The next thing you know, it's like reaching for my drawer by the bed. And then there's nothing more that I like, then to tell Matt, then I like to go to confession and say, guess what I did earlier today? And use that energy to also build connection with someone else.
[00:22:20] Willow: Yes, stimulate with your partner.
[00:22:22] Mary HoneyB: I love that part, I do.
[00:22:25] Leah: I think it's important that partners don't feel jealous or envious or somehow discounted when their partner self pleasures. We should be encouraging our lover to explore self pleasuring, and to be able to learn more about their own bodies, and what they like, and what's turning them on.
And what's changing about their turn on? What's changing about their imagination? What's turning them on now that was different from 10 years ago? And when we are honest about that, & we then we bring that to our partner for connection, even though we have this private part that we do just for ourselves, to still talk about that with the one that we want to do other things with. I think can lead to some really hot sex. I think it's important that we all have a sex life that's private, and then a sex life that we share, and then who knows what else that turns into?
[00:23:17] Mary HoneyB: Yes, I agree with that. I think that's awesome. Especially with your partner, right? Because you're gonna explore touch. Toys with guys, because a lot of times they're intimidated by toys, but some of the masturbation sleeves that women use on guys, it is just amazing for him. Because it feels very different. I remember my sister was like, don't bring any of those toys over here again for him because now he's more in love with the toy. He has discovered something else about himself and he wore it out. And oh my God, he wanted another one and she was like, no, did not call my sister and ask for another toy.
[00:24:01] Leah: That is cautionary tales. Cautionary tales folks.
[00:24:05] Willow: That is the danger of toys is we can get addicted to them.
[00:24:09] Leah: Well I know there's a lot of guys too that love to watch their partner play with a toy. And that there's something really ero about watching your partner pleasure themselves and you can learn so much. Watching how your partner likes to pleasure themselves can give you some insights on the things that you can do, because you are seeing what they like. You're noticing the friction, and the pressure, and the speed, and where I would encourage folks to try that out if they haven't.
[00:24:37] Mary HoneyB: Absolutely. Oh, you know what? You bring up a good point with that. I tell women, if you're watching a guy, and he's masturbating, watch how he masturbates because that means that's how he likes it.
So you can emulate that, right? You can do what he was doing, whether it's the twist-twist, over the lemon-wist, whatever it is that he's doing.
[00:25:00] Willow: Oooh, the lemon-twist.
[00:25:01] Leah: The lemon twist, like the juicer?
[00:25:04] Mary HoneyB: Yes. Exactly. And mutual masturbation is great. I talk about it in the Sweeter than Honey Book. The mutual masturbation, while you're masturbating, he's masturbating, so you're not even touching each other, but you get to watch the other person, and it's such a turn on.
[00:25:23] Willow: So hot. It's so hot. And I think also it can be very scary and edgy, and vulnerable for a lot of people. So what words of wisdom would you have for somebody who's Hmm, I'm scared. It sounds like I want it to be hot, but I'm not there yet.
[00:25:37] Mary HoneyB: Starts slow. Moaning always works, right? If you just watching something, eating something, doing something, you can just moan and do something sexual while you're eating and watch your partner's reaction.
[00:25:49] Leah: Oh, I love that too. That's a great beginning.
[00:25:54] Willow: That's a good one.
[00:25:54] Leah: Yeah,it's not even about, showing some of your genitals with a toy. Start with just eating something very sumptuous and delicious and then find a way to express that more. Let the pleasure of what you're eating show on your face, and make the sounds of that yumminess. That's great advice. I'm gonna borrow that one.
[00:26:15] Willow: Yeah, for sure. And I think it's a great exercise, but also making sure that your partner is aware of what's going on, otherwise they could totally miss it.
[00:26:26] Leah: So you you capture their eye contact as you take the next bite of ice cream.
[00:26:30] Mary HoneyB: Yeah, so I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm gonna say if I'm moaning and eating fruit or doing something, and he's totally oblivious to it. This is not the guy to take my clothes off for.
[00:26:43] Willow: Bingo. Ding, ding, ding. I refuse.
[00:26:47] Mary HoneyB: I refuse.
[00:26:48] Willow: You can use it as a test, ladies.
[00:26:51] Leah: So, you know what I'm really noticing? It seems Mary b that Mary HoneyB that you have a connection to self-worth, and self-confidence, and a sense of really knowing what you deserve, and not compromising that. Have you always felt that way? Because it sounds like even from a young age you've had a, you've had your finger on the pulse of that. And I'm wondering what you would say to someone who's trying to find their way towards more self-worth to being able to be that confident?
[00:27:27] Mary HoneyB: I will say that I've had my moments of being vulnerable, but it was very early in life, when I first started having sex. And I started trying to figure out my body and learn myself. But as I continued to grow in that arena, I just became much more comfortable with who I am.
What I like to do, and I find that a lot of guys, they like women who are decisive and know what they like. They don't always want to have to guess. They don't always want to have to figure it out. So the more we know about ourselves, the better off we'll be when we're dealing with men.
But I don't deal with any negative talk. because I don't believe that women should be talked down to at all. If you say something crazy to me, I'm out, I'm gone. We don't ever have to have another conversation. I got a divorce because my at that time husband put his hands on me. You don't get to do that twice. Because I'm from New Orleans and I believe in Voodoo so.... oh yeah, he was gonna come up short. No, I'm just saying that women have to just own it.
[00:28:44] Mary HoneyB: And this is an interesting thing too. Men taught me how to date. My dad taught me how to cheat. So I'm pretty well covered. Instead of date like a banchee, cheat like a man. Oh my gosh. It's fun. Okay. Some people don't believe in cheating. I do because I let the man set the standard. But if this is what we are doing, this is what we do. This is not just what you do. And I think that when we get so emotional about it, I mean women, and you can't separate and you're so hurt, and you're so distraught, just think about it differently. You don't have to be sad. Because if you even act like you want to do something, sometimes I tell women, don't cheat, just get real sexy and go out. Where you going? Oh, I'll be back. I'm going out with the... where you going?
So then they'll start to pay more attention. It's a lot of ways to get a guy's attention. Y'all already know that, so, but for me, I've always been very confident. But I've had my moments of being vulnerable too. I'm just like any other woman, it just doesn't last very long.
[00:29:56] Leah: So. Yeah. Yeah. You don't stay stuck for long. That's good.
[00:29:59] Willow: No. So, HoneyB, you're an author. I mean, you've written fictional books. I mean, I just wrote my first book and I was like, God, writing a fictional book is really, really hard. I didn't even attempt it. But you're an author, a screenwriter, and so much more. How, in a nutshell, would you describe your specialty or your message? How would you really put that in a nutshell for us?
[00:30:25] Mary HoneyB: Well, I look at myself like a lot of people, I am an artist first. First & foremost. And I feel like artists create art. And books are art. They are a work of art. Our words, the way we put them together and present them. And so I write the non-fiction books. The fiction books. And I did my first play; Single Husbands. So that's why we're going from the play to the film for Single Husbands.You know
[00:30:53] Mary HoneyB: These men are out there, but I never leave my girls hanging on anything that I do. I believe in female empowerment. That's huge for me. So with my books, you have a running theme. And that theme is no matter what the woman goes through, she will always come out on top. I don't care what it is. She's going to survive, she's going to prevail, she's gonna find her inner strength and she's going to overcome. And come while overcoming, because all of my books have sex, all of my books. I don't have a book on this shelf that does not have sex in it. Oh my God.
[00:31:31] Leah: I'm like, so ready to become a super fan. I'm gonna start ordering all your books.
[00:31:34] Willow: Reading all the books.
[00:31:36] Leah: Gimme all, all the Sex!
[00:31:38] Mary HoneyB: I will send you some sign books. Absolutely. Cool. Yes. It's fun.
[00:31:45] Willow: And what's been a challenge along the way?
[00:31:48] Leah: What's a challenge about being a writer? I imagine, what are some of the obstacles you've had to face in your writing career?
[00:31:54] Mary HoneyB: Letting go of old characters to create new ones. because I write in this series and it's getting to know...
[00:32:02] Willow: Leah loves Series!
[00:32:06] Leah: You have no idea what you're doing to me right now.
[00:32:08] Mary HoneyB: Oh my God.
[00:32:08] Willow: Leah's creaming right now.
[00:32:10] Leah: I hate it when it characters are done in one book. I want to keep them with me. I want to know what's gonna happen next. I hate ending one book with them, so, okay. Sorry.
[00:32:23] Mary HoneyB: Yes. No, it's fine. You have me laughing over here so hard. Yes. But I do like to write in a series and sometimes when you get to know those characters, they're just like friends.
Like, just like we are here talking girlfriends on your podcast and at some point you just have to let go. You go, so then you have to get to know somebody new, that awkwardness. Characters are the same way. So that's one of the challenges is getting to know somebody. New because they become real people in my head.
Just like we're sitting here talking now, real people. and that's why I feel like we're artists when we write these books and create this work. And I always start with a title because the title means everything to me. Head games. Oh my God. Because men play head games and men play head games and yeah...
[00:33:13] Willow: That sounds like a good one. I notice how you like to play with words a lot. It's really Brilliant.
[00:33:20] Leah: You've got some great hooks. I love it. Really brilliant. Okay, so the title comes first and then the title sort of informs and then starts to lead into these characters.
[00:33:28] Mary HoneyB: Absolutely. Absolutely. Then I'll come up with names for the characters and that's a process too. Sometimes I'll just go through the list of names that's online. Sometimes they're Italian. Okay. What's a great name? A great first ? A last name? And I like strong names. I like the Harrisons, and the Davidsons, and names like that. If a character is rich, like Wellington Jones, his name needs to sound like he's got money. You wouldn't expect that character to be broke, right?
[00:33:57] Willow: Hell no. Wellington Jones is well off.
[00:34:01] Leah: Do you have a favorite book?
[00:34:04] Mary HoneyB: Oh my god, I don't think I have a favorite book. If I had to choose one, it would be the last one, Punani Paradise. Because I like that one so much. But I love all of my characters. And I don't mean to just say that I really, really mean that. I'm still getting to know Zen because that's one of my characters in the book that I'm writing now. Z E N. And that's for a reason, right?
He goes through the journey to become that. But everything that he's gone through is just the opposite that says that he should never be that. So, but a lot is in the name. Yes.
[00:34:42] Leah: Is there research or preparation that you do as you're writing?
[00:34:46] Mary HoneyB: Absolutely. Like everything is research. You can't say anything around a writer. It'sif you guys say something now, I might be-
[00:34:55] Willow: Hang on, lemme take a note. That's gonna be good for Zen.
[00:35:00] Leah: That's really cool. I love that.
[00:35:02] Mary HoneyB: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And we always joke about it when, I'm sitting around with my writer friends. It was like, you can't say your title around us. You can't, you gotta wait till the book comes out. Because nothing is safe. In a very good way. Nothing is safe.
[00:35:20] Willow: You want to protect your IP's especially as it's still developing. So you're basically, you're creating these souls that come to life. They're real. And so,
[00:35:32] Willow: you're really a creatrix, like giving birth to these books, and giving birth to these characters. Have you given birth in your body? Are you a mama?
[00:35:42] Mary HoneyB: I am.I am. Yes, I am. I'm very much a woman in that sense that I have had miscarriage, so I know what that feels like. I've had one birth and I've had one abortion. And trust me, I was so happy I could have that abortion, because we don't always want to be in that situation.
But my son, who's now 35 years old, he is an award-winning children's author.
[00:36:13] Willow: Oh, that's amazing.
[00:36:14] Leah: Show him off!
[00:36:15] Mary HoneyB: That's a new one that's coming out.
[00:36:18] Willow: My god.
[00:36:19] Leah: The Secret Life of the Panther. Did I catch that title right?
[00:36:22] Mary HoneyB: Yes. You did. You did. And what's his name? Jesse Byrd. B Y R D.
[00:36:28] Leah: All right. Jesse, shout out to Jesse.
[00:36:30] Mary HoneyB: Thank you. I just love him so much because he's a publisher. He has his own company. He's working with Baker and Taylor, if you know who that is. Huge deal. He's getting ready to do masterclasses, 12 Masterclass on publishing. He's working with Steph Curry and Ayesha. I just sit back. I've done all of this, but he is just yes, amazing.
In our conversation, you said something about NPR. What does he do for NPR?
[00:36:56] Mary HoneyB: He's on the board.
[00:36:57] Leah: You must be incredibly proud?
[00:36:58] Mary HoneyB: I am!
[00:37:00] Leah: Goodness gracious.
[00:37:01] Willow: Ya'll all got some drive in your genes.
[00:37:03] Leah: And he's in his early thirties or something. I mean, really, what an amazing accomplishments.
[00:37:08] Mary HoneyB: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah he's doing it. I'm so proud of him. I really am. Yes.
[00:37:15] Leah: Way to go mom!
[00:37:16] Willow: Congrats to you. Go mom, well done!
[00:37:18] Mary HoneyB: Some of this stuff becomes secret with our kids though, right? It's like, oh mom, I'm gonna be in town. I'm gonna set up a dinner date with tour trustees from NPR so you can meet them. Oh, they're too busy, mom. Oh, it's time for me to go. I was like, well, what happened? I never got meet them. So it's just fun. It's fun.
[00:37:36] Leah: What does your son think about your accomplishments as a writer and, especially having this romantic, erotic theme running through your books? Is that something that you have had a chance to talk deeply with each other about?
[00:37:51] Mary HoneyB: We do.
[00:37:52] Leah: I want to be a fly on the wall of those conversations, because so many people have a hard time talking about sexuality topics with their parents.
[00:38:00] Mary HoneyB: And that's true. And we have been talking about sex for a long time. When he was younger I bought condoms for him. I was the condom lady, you could call me pretty much. My son is six nine and the basketball team would sleep over it. But I say, take what you want. Take what you need. Safe sex. Safe sex. Even now with him being grown, he says, women are always really surprised. How do you know this and how do you know all this stuff?
[00:38:27] Willow: He's like, my mom's an educator. She's a writer, she's the queen of all this.
[00:38:34] Mary HoneyB: Yes, and his friends too. And in high school, his friends would always act out some of the scenes from the book and they would be huffing real hard and coming. Ms. Morrison, I want to be in your book. Can you make me a star?
[00:38:51] Willow: Oh my God, I love that.
[00:38:53] Leah: You were the fun mom. Totally.
[00:38:55] Mary HoneyB: I was.
[00:38:55] Willow: Totally,
[00:38:56] Mary HoneyB: I was.
[00:38:57] Willow: So then what would you say to parents out there who are trepidatious about talking to their children about sexuality? Especially talking to young boys and at what time, what age? Is it an age specific, or is it more their evolution through their puberty? How can you help parents?
[00:39:17] Leah: As a parent, how do you navigate those waters? Do you have any advice?
[00:39:21] Mary HoneyB: Every parent is different. And while I was so free, Jesse's best friend, his mom was very conservative.
So I remember one day he did take a condom, and he took it home, and it was in his pocket and his mom found it and she lost it. Like, oh my God, what are you doing with this? And blah, blah, blah, and da da, da. Why do you have this?
And for me, I would always just try to talk to my friends, as parents, and say, look, it's better to introduce them to safe sex than for them to get a young girl pregnant because then we have another issue.
I always taught my son, I said, if that happens, then we have a child to raise. You don't get to walk away, you don't get to. And I think when they understand that, they take responsibility very early on. My son doesn't have any kids to this day. And he keeps saying he doesn't want any, but that's a whole other thing.
His dad said he was gonna sue him like the Chinese people did with their kids. Yes. He's going to sue him.
[00:40:23] Leah: You owe grandchildren.
[00:40:25] Mary HoneyB: But get comfortable with bridging that conversation and I think one of the things that parents should not do, is talk down to their kids, or make their kids feel bad about sex.
If you see something talk to them about it. If they ask you a question, answer it for them.There's a book called The Multi-Orgasmic Man by Mantak Chia. I love that book. I gave it to my son when he was 16 and he didn't want it. And so I said, okay, so just leave it there. Along come his friend. I said, if you want it, keep it. I'll buy another one. Another friend come along, he takes the book. He said, oh my God, when did they start reading literature like this? I said, they're gonna have your girlfriends, I'm sorry. They're gonna leave you because you're gonna be boring. I'm sorry.
[00:41:10] Willow: They're gonna take my condoms, and my books, and they're gonna learn way faster. You better start reading.
[00:41:18] Mary HoneyB: So sometimes you can just give a book. I guess that's my point in it. If you're not comfortable talking about sex. Then you can introduce your kids with books, so they can learn something.
[00:41:29] Willow: Books are a great resource. I actually just was referred a book called, I think it's How to Be the Best Lover, and it is specifically for teenage boys. So it's just, great, it's easy, simple, fun to read. Good for parents. Good for the kids.
[00:41:44] Leah: Maybe you should...
[00:41:45] Mary HoneyB: I'm gonna get that.
[00:41:46] Leah: I was gonna say we could probably use another book, HoneyB. About teenagers with a sex positive, permissive, parent that makes space for kids to feel their bodies. And navigate some of those waters that feel scary or that they're gonna get in trouble. Because I think that's really unexplored. There's a way to be a teenager, to have orgasms, and that doesn't necessarily mean penises and vagina's going inside of each other and creating babies. There's lots of orgasms, there's lots of ways to not get pregnant, and still have orgasms. And if kids knew about that, then they would start having that kind of sex.
[00:42:24] Mary HoneyB: I like that, Leah. I like that a lot. That is something to do. I think that's an excellent idea.
[00:42:31] Willow: That'd be great novel.
We'll have you on the podcast again when you can tell us all about that book. We're really excited for you to write it.
[00:42:37] Mary HoneyB: I love it. And I don't mind writing it because it makes sense, right? It makes sense. And maybe the three of us write it together and we write different segments.
[00:42:46] Willow: Okay. I'll write a chapter or two.
[00:42:47] Mary HoneyB: Ok, we'll talk about it. Maybe we do it that way and then they have different perspectives.
But I do like the part of encouraging young people, especially with, I'm not gonna go too heavy into politics, but I feel very strongly about Roe versus Wade and what's happening with that right now with women losing their ability to choose. And it doesn't matter if you're pro-choice or pro-life. I think we all have a right to feel how we feel. But what's not good is when you the female doesn't have rights.
[00:43:20] Leah: Yeah, when we don't have rights over our own body, we should have full sovereignty over our reproductive rights. I stand with that.
[00:43:29] Willow: Absolutely.
[00:43:30] Mary HoneyB: So these types of books are going to be more and more necessary, like Pharrell.
[00:43:36] Willow: The sooner we really start talking about it with our kids, with the teenagers, is I think all these hormones raging through their bodies I mean, it's a real deep transformation. Talk about a metamorphosis that they go through, that we all went through, so we all can understand it. And some of us we're more blessed than others to have parents like honeyB.
[00:44:01] Mary HoneyB: No. I was the girl that snuck and did everything. My parents, I went to church every Sunday. I had the fellowship after church. Okay.
[00:44:09] Willow: You're recovering Christian or Catholic?.
[00:44:11] Mary HoneyB: I was like, oh my god.
[00:44:13] Willow: Me too.
[00:44:14] Leah: Well, I think that that points to something, perhaps another reason why you and others like you, modeling how to be in your own skin, in these conversations with your kids, because I think for a lot of people, they would like to be open. They would like to feel comfortable. They would prefer being the type of parent that their kids felt comfortable talking to them about these things, but they don't know how to create the space for it. They don't have a model in their mind. They haven't crossed that threshold in their own sexual awareness, and their own sexual development to have this natural confidence. There's an evolution in our bodies that many of us have to go through in order to find that opening. In order to be able to tolerate the discomfort enough to move in a different direction. And so to have someone write the words out. That they can try that on in their mind. And then they can even try it on in front of their mirror, or they can try it on talking to their girlfriends, or talking to some other trusted adult, as they move towards being more comfortable. Being a more sex positive parent role model, being more permissive about these conversations, we need someone who can model it, show us the way.
[00:45:32] Willow: Give us a language. And that's the value of reading like Mary HoneyB's books. It's not only do you learn the language, but also, what Leah is saying, you start to imagine yourself using that language. And that's where it starts, with imagining the possibility of it.
[00:45:51] Leah: Like putting it in your own skin. I can't be HoneyB, I can't be Willow, I can only be me, but I can be influenceable. I can allow myself to be influenced by other people's education, awareness enlightenment, and I can allow that. If I can stay open to other people, then that creates its own authentic message once it's integrated in me.
[00:46:16] Mary HoneyB: I like the step by steps too, kind of creating a how-to. In the sex scenes where if you haven't done it. You go, oh, okay, that's how it's done. Even in Sexcapade with the anal sex, with the anal sex scene in chapter seven is so detailed.
[00:46:34] Willow: What book, is that Punany Paradise? Lemme get that book. Go straight to chapter seven.
[00:46:42] Mary HoneyB: Chapter seven. It's called Sexcapades. Yes.
[00:46:44] Leah: Okay, Sexcapades, write that down.
[00:46:47] Mary HoneyB: It starts off with this amazing blowjob, right? It's an amazing blowjob, step by step. And one girl was like, oh yeah, I got my guy. I did everything you said in that chapter, and he just fell for it. And I was like, okay, good.
But married couples, when I do signings, I'll be at Essence, they'll come together and they're like, you really enhanced our marriage because it gave us a different take. And my wife started reading this to me, like you were saying earlier, Leah, with the reading of it. And so now we've introduced our friends to it. So I'm like, it's good.
[00:47:24] Leah: This must be so rewarding.
[00:47:25] Willow: And I always have clients coming to me being where can I get some good erotica? Where can I get some good readings? So now we've got a whole new HoneyB library to dip into.
[00:47:37] Leah: I mean, I feel like just a month ago before I knew about you HoneyB, I was asking the same question, I need some more erotica.
I don't know where to go. I'm missing out on something. And I'm looking in iBooks for a list of good erotica, and some of it I wasn't vibing with it. But as you open this whole world for us, it's so cool because you're, you really are a sexuality educator through these stories. And it's really opened my mind to what's possible as an educator.
[00:48:05] Leah: I'm coming at it from a different lens and a different doorway. But it's really inspiring, that there's a creative process that helps you tell a story and teach at the same time. It's those two worlds intersecting of storytelling, and teaching, and helping other people digest something that they probably wouldn't be able to digest by coming to one of my classes.
But they can read one of your books. And integrate it differently. So exciting.
[00:48:33] Mary HoneyB: God, I love it. I do. And there's always a story in there erotica. So the HoneyB books, just for clarification, is straight erotica. I call it you're 50/50 and then the Mary B. Morrison book. They are all sexually explicit, but more of the storyline. But a lot of sex things, but more of the storyline. So they all have that element.
The Rich Girls Club, okay, you have the Asian, the Latina, the black, the white, and they're all friends and they decide they're gonna take these guys down, right? I mean, take 'em down because California has never had a female governor and never had a black governor. And that was true when I wrote the book, right? it's like, where's everybody at? Where's everybody at? They still haven't had a I don't think a female governor in California. But another story, these women decide to take the guys down their opponents, one at a time. So they decide one girl is gonna run for governor, and then all the other girls are going to create sexual scandals with the other-
[00:49:39] Willow: Oh my god.
[00:49:40] Mary HoneyB: -Other candidate sounds so good. Oh, they blackmail so good, they do. Oh, they get 'em in every kind of compromising, naked, whatever position with dildos. And it's like you will drop out of the race. This dildo is not exactly in the place where you want people to see this on tv.
[00:50:00] Leah: Okay. Who's ready to be a part of a book club?
[00:50:03] Willow: Oh my God.
[00:50:03] Mary HoneyB: Because this is going down
[00:50:06] Willow: A Mary HoneyB book club, we're starting one.
[00:50:08] Leah: Yes. We're so starting one.
[00:50:10] Mary HoneyB: We're so smart. We, as women are so smart, aren't we ?
[00:50:15] Leah: Yes, we are. This is true.
[00:50:18] Willow: And the smartest men know that.
[00:50:21] Mary HoneyB: Yes. Well, good. Yes, they do.
[00:50:26] Leah: Wow. Well, so fun. Thanks for hanging out with us and letting us into your mind, into the inner workings of your gorgeous mind and your art.
[00:50:38] Mary HoneyB: Thank you. I've had so much fun. I've had so much fun. This is fun. Yeah, just sitting around talking, coming up with great ideas, telling stories.
[00:50:48] Leah: I'm inspired to go to the sex store and get some new toys. I'm getting the Rose. I'm gonna go to the bookstore and get some more books. I'm gonna get on the phone and have a book club.
[00:51:01] Willow: So much is being birthed from this one interview. I love it.
[00:51:05] Willow: And so, miss HoneyB, you have a gift that you want to offer all of our listeners, correct?
[00:51:13] Mary HoneyB: I do, I do. So, I've shared the link, is for Never Let a Man Come First, the book, because I really feel like every woman should read the book. Every woman should read. Wow.
[00:51:28] Leah: That's very generous.
[00:51:29] Mary HoneyB: Thank you. You Never Let a Man Come First and there's no mail bashing. Let me just clarify that. But I knew when I created the title that guys would shy away from it based on the title. But I tell you, when men pick up, Never Let a Man Come First and start to read it. They're like, oh my gosh. did you see this? Bruh, come over here. You gotta read this.
[00:51:53] Willow: They love it. They want too. Oh, good. Oh, that's good.
[00:51:57] Mary HoneyB: They don't know, right, about us? So but I wrote it for women and for young girls.
I even mentioned the different types of STDs. And the different symptoms that go along with it. Because I know for a fact that sometimes young girls end up contracting something. They have no idea what it is. They're ashamed to even mention it, and they don't know what to. So I even addressed that in a book. So it's a lot of great information, but it's free. It's free.
[00:52:29] Willow: That's amazing. That's such a gift. Generous, really awesome, wonderful gift. And now we don't have to have any excuses to not dive into your artistry.
[00:52:37] Leah: Thank you.
[00:52:39] Mary HoneyB: Thank you.
[00:52:39] Leah: That's really great.
[00:52:41] Mary HoneyB: Thank you.
[00:52:42] Leah: Well, you've been just a pure delight. Thank you so much for spending this time with us and giving us this generous book. Never Let a Man Come First, guys, you're gonna want to read this.
[00:52:52] Mary HoneyB: Oh, got a song. Got a song.
[00:52:54] Leah: Cause I know how much men, like, they really want their partner to come. They really want to give them pleasure. That's tied into their pleasure. And sometimes they don't feel they have total control over their Ejaculation. And so being able to get some guidance and get some insight into what women need and how they can facilitate that, I'm sure the book will offer them insights.
[00:53:15] Mary HoneyB: Yes. And I talk about the three rings in there too. A woman should get three rings.
[00:53:20] Leah: Oh, same more?
[00:53:21] Willow: Not just the two.
[00:53:23] Mary HoneyB: The relationship ring. The engagement ring and the wedding ring.
[00:53:27] Willow: Okay. I love that.
[00:53:28] Mary HoneyB: It's really kinda interesting because if you tell a guy, and yes, I've done this before. If you tell a guy, if he wants to date you, it's like, well, I'm gonna need a relationship ring if I want to take myself off the market.
[00:53:41] Willow: Ah, I like that. I thought you were gonna talk about cock rings.
[00:53:44] Leah: I thought so too. Oh, we're, there's a technique in there somewhere's.
[00:53:48] Willow: Totally different.
No, I was talking about
[00:53:51] Mary HoneyB: the real thing.
[00:53:53] Willow: I love that. I'll take that too. If we're gonna commit, if I'm gonna take myself off the market, I want a ring for it. I love that. Why not? Sure.
[00:54:01] Mary HoneyB: Yes, absolutely. Why not ask for it? But the other thing is that, even if he doesn't get it, if you ask for it, you get a glimpse into how he feels about you. If he goes, oh no, I'm not, no. Then that means, oh,I might need to reevaluate this. if he says, what's the relationship ring? I like that because then he's curious. He wants to know, and he wants to understand, and wants you give him the information. He's still gonna say yes or no. My son is like, heck no. I'm not buying. But guys, I know some older guys that will go, oh, that's such a nice idea. I like that. I'm gonna do that. So we'll do it.
[00:54:44] Willow: I love that, and not only does it give you a glimpse into how excited they are to commit to you as well. But you are asking for this, and it's a vulnerable ask, right? So it also empowers you as a woman to use your voice, and to get into the ask, and learn how to be more forward with getting what you want outta life.
[00:55:07] Mary HoneyB: Yeah, or you could just print out the page from the PDF that you'll get when you get the link and download it and just put it in the hands.
[00:55:15] Willow: There you go. If you need an easy way, circle it.
[00:55:20] Leah: Put some hints out there. Absolutely.
[00:55:22] Mary HoneyB: Draw a picture.
[00:55:23] Leah: See, it's endlessly creative.
[00:55:25] Willow: So much fun. Thank you so much for being with us today, it's just been such a pleasure and such an honor.
[00:55:33] Mary HoneyB: Thank you ladies.
[00:55:38] SxR Announcer: Now our favorite part. The dish.
[00:55:47] Leah: Okay, welcome back, Sex Reimagined. We just wrapped up with the beautiful Mary HoneyB Morrison.
[00:55:56] Willow: Oh my God. She was so fun and so inspirational. Love her commitment to being an artist first. Just really inspiring on so many levels, because artistry comes in all forms, and this woman is an author, and a really profound one at that. Leah and I both cannot wait to dive into her collection.
[00:56:19] Leah: Yeah, I know, I'm in a series right now, I'm just so ready for it to be over with, so I can dive into her work and have some lovely private moments with my vibrator.
[00:56:32] Willow: Yeah.
[00:56:34] Leah: Like I'm really into that, looking forward to it.
[00:56:37] Willow: Oh yeah. She'll inspire that. I'm sure.
[00:56:41] Leah: Interesting though, I mean, we had just interviewed Om and so I was still reeling in what was opening for me around that. So in the beginning of the interview, I kind of had this clutch moment, because I was describing a part of this whole dirty little slut thing. The fantasy thing that I'm grappling with of wanting to explore the deepest part of that in conjunction with my fear, when I was coming of age, as compared to my whole, healed, adult self wanting to now claim it. And be treated like a nasty little slut by someone I can really trust.
And I felt like there wasn't enough context around all of that. So I feel like there was, sort of, a gulp moment. Because later in the interview, and I could be making this up. But this is just a moment for us just to decompress on what we experienced. And so I just want the audience to know there are gonna be moments in this where you're gonna see very clearly my insecurities. You're gonna see what triggers me, what opens me, what opens Willow, what triggers Willow. And I hope brings us all in, that there's space for all of this, in all of us.
And so I did have a moment of just going, gulp, because I could feel the incongruence, I think between her messaging and that comment of mine.
And I couldn't be making up just a totally big story, but this is just me processing the fucking interview. I have held sex and sexuality from that place too, of just only total empowerment. And I felt like there was a departure from an understanding that what I was also saying, about this whole sacred slut piece, is also coming from a place of total empowerment.
It's just doesn't look like the same messaging anymore. Right. You know, and so I felt there was a misconnection there. And I wasn't sure how to totally recover from that. So I noticed there was a little bit in there.
[00:58:49] Willow: Was this early on in the interview? I don't even know what you're talking about.
[00:58:52] Leah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was early, early, early on in the interview.
[00:58:55] Willow: Okay. I had, it was not in my consciousness at all.
[00:58:58] Leah: Well I'm sure it's only in my head.
[00:59:02] Willow: One of the things she said that made us both pause was, I love how she claimed it though. She was like, I know this isn't gonna sound this isn't gonna, it's not a popular idea. Well then no baby dolls thing. But also she's like, I'm all for having an affair. I think it's great. Have an affair. Do you remember her? And we both were like, hmmmmmm? Okay.
[00:59:29] Leah: The no, we shouldn't have Baby dolls was a gulp moment.
[00:59:32] Willow: The baby dolls was a big one.
[00:59:34] Leah: I'm not sure I totally agree with that.
[00:59:36] Willow: So many good little controversial moments, I would say, for us, in this interview, which I loved.
[00:59:40] Leah: And I love that she brought it up. I mean, I love, I love someone who's gutsy and stands for what they believe.
[00:59:47] Willow: And unapologetic. And she's bold, and she's strong, and she's powerful, and she's wise, but not in a pushy way at all. Just really standing in sovereignty and really a cool woman.
[01:00:01] Leah: Yeah, well said. Totally in her sovereignty and I and made me pause, really had me consider, no baby dolls, eh?
[01:00:09] Willow: No, I loved my baby doll, I still have a picture of the baby doll. I was never into Barbie's though.
[01:00:18] Leah: If it wasn't a doll, what about stuffed teddy bears, and zebras, and what about other things? Because I think that it's natural for us to want to care for something. And I think that's a natural human thing to nurture. And I don't think it's a boy / girl thing either. Or just a girl thing. It's not a gender thing. And I think also there are plenty of boys who want baby dolls too. I think we just allow our child to be their unique selves, and stand back, and let them be drawn to what they're drawn to.
And maybe not try to inform what they're drawn to. And allow that to develop natural naturally. But interesting point.
And then the thing about the affairs, I love that she's just that feminist. It was cool too, this interview had so many different pieces within it.
[01:01:02] Willow: And I loved how we took a turn toward how to talk to your teenagers about sexuality, from a mother's perspective. Who is sexually sovereign. Somebody who is very comfortable and she shared so much with us around her experience of that. And being the mom that the whole basketball team came to for advice around sexuality. And just being a staple in her community for those young boys. What an amazing gift it probably was to each and every one of those boys and the women that they're with now, or men, that they're with now.
[01:01:40] Leah: Yeah, totally. And I think there's a vivaciousness and an embracing confidence that it seems she came into this world with. You gotta pause and think about the shy girl, who's not always talking about everything, but actually knows a lot. I could just see her, growing up in high school and...
[01:02:04] Willow: ...just being the quiet one in the corner who actually has it figured out. Okay, I got this, yeah, not figured it out, I'm figuring it out.
[01:02:13] Leah: I want to be in her crew for sure.
[01:02:16] Willow: And just all the imagination that she carries in order to develop these characters who are very, very real for her. And just having a mind that can pull from every piece and aspect of life to create these characters, to create these stories.
Writing any book is hard as hell, but writing fictional books? I mean, my brain can not go there. I tried, it didn't work.
[01:02:44] Leah: I mean, that story was so great. How all these women from all these backgrounds getting together and taking over government.
[01:02:52] Willow: Yes, one of her books.
[01:02:54] Leah: And using all these sexual scandals to blackmail them.
[01:02:58] Willow: Love it. I mean, just so creative. I cannot wait to dive into her library. She's got the HoneyB series and then she's got the Mary Morrison series or something.
[01:03:07] Leah: Something like that.
[01:03:10] Willow: All kind of categorized, which I love all that kinda stuff.
[01:03:13] Leah: So definitely, let's have an Instagram thread about who's gonna be in the book club? Because I think we need to really dive into this.
[01:03:21] Willow: I think her work is gonna be very expansive for anyone who reads it.
[01:03:24] Leah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This will probably open up a lot of doors to a lot of other writers that we haven't been exposed to yet. I would really like to get into this whole new genre. There are a lot of other things that I thought she said were also interesting and probably controversial.
I love that she named being a teenager and dating older men.
[01:03:43] Willow: She was like, I went for the older boys.
[01:03:46] Leah: Yeah, I had that experience too. I grew up in a college town. I was all about the college boys and pretending I was older than I was. And no, I don't feel like I was taking advantage of, or raped, or statutory rape, or any of that shit. So don't go victim whistling on my ass We were just fine. It was choice. It was a shit ton of fun. And I would do it all over again. Over and over and over again.
[01:04:08] Willow: I'm sure you would to go back and do all
[01:04:10] Leah: Yes, in fact but I'm sure I can figure out a way to play that out now. So I like that she stood for that because I think sometimes we so victimize our teenagers to the point of yes, that's true for some, but it's not true for all. We are not this blanket black and white society that has to say this is a thousand percent wrong and a thousand percent right. It's all individual,
[01:04:38] Willow: Especially coming of age, and coming from childhood, through teens into adulthood, there are so many factors at play.
We've got hormonal, we've got peer pressure factors, we got maturity factors, maturity now, social media factors. And there's so much to discover and explore and find out who you are. If you can really hold a container for your teens and let them know that no matter what they're discovering, or no matter what they're trying on that week, as far as their persona goes, is that you love them unconditionally and that you're gonna be there for them no matter what.
That gives them an anchor that gives them a place to come home to when they feel lost, or confused, or in the dark. So I love that we took that turn with her conversation. That was great.
[01:05:31] Leah: Yeah, because I think conversations these days are mostly centered around how teenagers might be getting exploited by adults. And that is certainly true. And I don't mean to diminish that, by also highlighting that not every teenager is necessarily being exploited, just because they're having an experience with someone who's a little bit older. So whatever that's worth. Don't come after me. We're not talking about the same thing. Exploitation versus experimentation.
And then I think her piece is also really valid around the abortion piece. She said she's had a child, she's had a miscarriage, she's had an abortion. Yep. She's someone who stands in experience.
[01:06:21] Willow: Yep, she's been through it all.
[01:06:23] Leah: And I stand with her in believing that our reproductive rights should be protected. And so I really felt aligned with her on that. I loved her. She has her own journey and experience and she's had a lot of experience, to know who she is and to know the complex pain of all three experiences.
Very unique, and special, creative woman. You can tell how far she has come since her shy days to where she's at now. I mean, come on. You can never tell. In fact, Leah, you said during the interview you, I can imagine you as this just really vivacious, sexy young girl, in your high school days. And she was like, oh, it's the opposite actually.
[01:07:09] Leah: Yeah, I know. I was like, oh my God, you just continue to surprise me, HoneyB.
[01:07:15] Willow: Yeah, she was a pleasure.
[01:07:17] Leah: Yeah, so the book club, who's in?
[01:07:21] Willow: I'm in. Let us know in the Sex Reimagined Instagram account, if you want to read one of HoneyB's books with us and have a convo about it?
[01:07:29] Leah: And I bet that we can get her to be a guest speaker at the end of our book club and maybe do Q and A with her?
[01:07:36] Willow: Oh, that'd be so fun.
[01:07:37] Leah: Okay. Yeah. Cool. All right, well, love, love!
[01:07:39] SxR Announcer: Love. Thanks for tuning in. If the hosts seem to know what they were talking about, that's because they do. Leah Piper is a Tantric sex master coach and a positive psychology facilitator. Dr. Willow Brown is both a Chinese and functional medicine doctor and a Taoist sexology teacher.
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