Intimacy coach & author Shana James has supported thousands of men in overcoming intimacy obstacles like shame and trauma to unlock the true depths of their sexuality. In this in-depth interview, Shana shares wisdom on healing negative beliefs, communicating desires, and reimagining the possibilities of what sex looks & feels like.
KEY TOPICS WE COVER:
LINKS FOR SHANA
OTHER EPISODE LINKS
Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. https://www.sexreimagined.com/the-king-and-queen-of-hearts
Awaken Arousal Oil Lubricant "I had a 3-minute orgasm and then a 5-minute orgasm." - Beth https://exploreforia.com/awaken-so?irclickid=wyXW6byI5xyNWouwIoQAUS1GUkAx4m1JsS6bSc0&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Impact&utm_campaign=Sex%20Reimagined&utm_c
SxR Hotline | SxR Website | YouTube | TikTok | Pinterest | Instagram | Dr. Willow's Website | Leah's Website
Intimacy coach & author Shana James has supported thousands of men in overcoming intimacy obstacles like shame and trauma to unlock the true depths of their sexuality. In this in-depth interview, Shana shares wisdom on healing negative beliefs, communicating desires, and reimagining the possibilities of what sex looks & feels like.
KEY TOPICS WE COVER:
LINKS FOR SHANA
OTHER EPISODE LINKS
Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. https://www.sexreimagined.com/the-king-and-queen-of-hearts
Awaken Arousal Oil Lubricant "I had a 3-minute orgasm and then a 5-minute orgasm." - Beth https://exploreforia.com/awaken-so?irclickid=wyXW6byI5xyNWouwIoQAUS1GUkAx4m1JsS6bSc0&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Impact&utm_campaign=Sex%20Reimagined&utm_c
SxR Hotline | SxR Website | YouTube | TikTok | Pinterest | Instagram | Dr. Willow's Website | Leah's Website
We are reimagining a world connected to deep and true intimacy, unburdened by sexual shame and trauma. we're your host, Leah Piper and myself, Dr. Willow Brown.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Shana James is up next and she is a relationship and leadership coach for 20 years. She has humbly discovered the cause of disconnection and distrust inside of relationships as well as how to build trust and keep passion alive. She's got a master's in psychology. She's a wealth of wisdom. She's written a book called Honest Sex. She is the host of the Man Alive Podcast and she has a TEDx talk out. So she is quite a resource, quite a phenomenal woman, and you're going to want to dive deep with her.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, she is a deep one and have so much fun. You know, I just noticed that she is a positive intelligence coach. Didn't we do
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, we did.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Part of that coaching program? Because when she said, Saboteurs
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Sage. I was like, oh god, I want to go find mine again. Because nailed my saboteur.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:so tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Shana James.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Look at us. We are with Shana.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Shana James.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Gosh, to be with again.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:We love Shana.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:We love Shana James.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:I've had pleasure of knowing Shana James for what? God, like 15, 18 years. Long time, I think.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Has it been that long?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:I don't know how long it's been.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah. I think I met you like in 2008.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Oh my God, it's been such a long time. We were babies.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Babies. I know little puppies. We were adorable puppies back then.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:We're full grown canines. Full grown kitty cats.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:right. Felions.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I like that.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:We're diving into this topic because it's a very important topic in our sexuality world and you know, so many of us sexperts out here in the world, we're talking about all this pleasure and amazing orgasms, enlightenment that can happen through sexuality, and that's all cool, but it's a journey to get there. And many of us also are coming from, have a history of sexual trauma sometimes through our childhood, sometimes later in life. And so we really wanted to put the series together to help those who are still in that space of healing from trauma, overcoming that, and really letting that go from their somatic body, from their cellular being. So we know that you have a lot to say on this.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:And I just love the reminder that whether it's big trauma, I'm sure you talk about this too, right? Whether it's big trauma or just any place that we've kind of lost ourselves or don't speak up for ourselves or you know, like I relate to having not the big T trauma, but knowing that when I was in high school, when I first started my sexual journey I didn't know that my body was sacred and I didn't know that, you know, I was trying not to be a slut and I was trying not to be a prude and I was trying to be the right way. And so that created imprints in my body. And I still work with that and I think most of us do.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, I think you're really speaking to this collective like trauma that, it doesn't have to be like I was raped or I was sexually molested as a kid or any of that. But actually just the taboo in the shame that is accompanied with this sector of our lives. When, we are looking at it from Chinese medicine perspective, it's just part of health. You know, it's like, of course you need to have this many orgasms, this many times a month. And you know, that's just part of, it's like you go to the bathroom and you eat food and you sleep.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Oh my God, I love that.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yep.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:You know, for those of you who don't know, Shana has a podcast called Man Alive Podcast and she's an incredible coach. And and so I'm really, you know, there's a couple things I want to drop in with you about and that is what's been the unique perspective working with men that you come in contact with when it comes to their shame? And do you find that it's different from you know, vulva owning bodies?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. Well, one thing that is common is that as I'm getting older, I'm working with men who are also getting older, and what I'm finding is that it's easier for men to escape the shame when their bodies and their hormones are free and easy, like when we're young. And so as men get older and get into their forties and fifties, I think more of it shows up and it can be a little bit shocking and sometimes it just shows up in terms of I actually need more connection or more emotional intimacy. To get turned on and not even necessarily knowing that. And so then feeling like something's wrong. Maybe I'm not attracted to this person. And sometimes it's actually the very opposite. And then sometimes it's, you know, some of those bigger things actually show up because if you have to slow down to have sex, if you have to actually be present instead of just riding on the youth hormones, right then new things actually start to show up.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Go ahead Leah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:I think that's a really interesting point that doesn't get talked about a lot is that shift in oxytocin for men, men's oxytocin levels go up as they get older. Whereas with women it goes down and there is some kind of correlation that you know, will attract sometimes an older man and a younger woman because there's a viability still left in the ability to get pregnant and healthier eggs while the sperm are less robust than when he was in his twenties. When he is going into his forties and then his fifties, there's a maturity that arises. And what I got as feedback listening to men in that stage of life is that the intimacy ends up being really important if their body's going to perform.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:And, so connection becomes more and more and more important, which makes sense when you see the oxytocin levels continue to increase in a man's body. I find that fascinating.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:And another interesting fact about oxytocin is women's bodies actually circulate 75% more oxytocin in general, which is quite a lot more. So even though all of our hormones go down as we go through menopause. But you know, that bonding is still there. So as men age and they need more heart connection to get that hard on, to get like really in their virility. I think that it's almost like they're catching up to us in a way in that heart connection space.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:But isn't it also interesting that there might be a correlation between older women having less oxytocin and younger men having less oxytocin. Why aren't we hooking up with younger men? I mean, that's what I want to know?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Some of us are.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:But it's such a smaller percentage than the men that are hooking up with younger women. And I think it has to do with women wrestling with their beauty. Thinking that they aren't as a viable or attractive as they get older. You know, we tend to worship beauty in our culture, at least like this. And youth.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Think there's not, but also if you're saying, Willow, if we start with 75% more, did you say, or 75%, and men are so much lower.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:More. Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:it does start to come together, right? And so as we get older and men can meet us more in that space, I think then it becomes like, oh, finally there's a match. But it also can be fun to play with younger. But it does, men we have to come up against our bodies and how are they going to see us? And you know, we're changing and getting more wrinkly.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:All things. Do you notice that with the men that you work with, do they have shame or body image issues around you know, not being able to stay as hard as long, or not having the virility they used to not being able to perform the way they used to. Even if there is a hard connection what kind?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:It's all there and I like to see it as a doorway and an opportunity for them to be more connected and to have more sacredness and to have more depth and intimacy and you know, that can it takes a little while sometimes to make that shift where instead of making themselves wrong and going to shame, they get, oh my gosh, there's a whole universe that starts to open up.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah. I think it's also true that like if with a newer partner or you've been with someone for a long time, like things can start to wane and go in a direction that you're not accustomed to and you're not really sure what to do with it. And thinking that it means that you're not as manly as you once were. And I think that perspective can shift and that can shift the way you experience your sexuality. because sex isn't just, you know, genitals together. There's so much more to sexuality and that's what we're really looking at expanding and evolving into is like, sex can be so much.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:And that you can walk around in the world actually feeling, you know, turned on by the wind,
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:by the, yeah, by the wind, by
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Eco eroticism.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, by song, by music you're playing in
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:the car. For some men, I think when they're younger, that would be, very and in pain and weird. But I also love to guide couples or you know, people who are having sex to recognize that you can have incredible pleasure through the energetic connection and through eye gazing and through even just touching fingers. And you know, once that shifts from the kind of hard and fast. It does open up a whole new world of what sex actually is.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, I was going to ask you like what advice do you have, like a tip or a hack or, some sort of morsel of wisdom to give to women?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Who are in a relationship with a penis owner? Like what's a little nugget that you think women need to know about their penis owning partner?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Oh, I love this. Okay, so the first thing I think is that, Every man who's come to me wants to pleasure their partner, wants to be a good lover. And so if something's happening that isn't as exciting or isn't as awesome as it could be, to actually speak up and say so, and if it's vulnerable, you know, it doesn't have to happen right there in that moment. While that's amazing, that actually happened last night with my partner where I said, Okay, this is happening and it's fine. But I think if you did it this way and then it was just like lightning bolts, you know? And I felt afterwards we talked about it and I was like, it's still scary for me to say. So even having all of this experience and writing a book on being honest and having Honest Sex and, you know, but recognizing that if we're not saying what we want, what we like, what we need, and if something doesn't feel good, that's why sex gets less and less exciting over time. Right. You know, as we get more familiar with a partner, it something our, turn on can wane, but we can also create more of that turn on by speaking to what we want and not treating men as though they're fragile, but also bringing our desires rather than our complaints. Like assuming that they want to have more pleasure that they want to create more pleasure for us and asking with our desires and our vulnerability rather than nagging or shaming or blaming or attacking.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:That's huge. Yeah. Because that's just going to create a downward spiral within the connection and the relationship, and we want to create an upward spiral. So I feel like appreciation is like one of the first places that we can start to create that upward spiral. There's got to be something about your partner that you appreciate, so find that one thing you know, and start highlighting it for them. Let them know.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:That's a great advice. Yeah. If you can find something quick too, it's like, what are they doing right, right now? I love that you're here with me and that your eyes are so blue in this light.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. Or even say if you don't like the way someone's touching you, you can appreciate the fact that they are touching Right? Like, thank you that you are touching me and I really Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:When you have been working along your journey and your path in this career and in this industry, what's been one of the sort of key things that you help people with? Like, what do you do? How do you help them move through that trauma part of their journey? Like, I want to heal the shame from the collective, or I want to let go of this religious guilt. Or I had a, sexual trauma as a kid that I still haven't worked through.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, I think there's, it's a couple prongs. I'm just thinking of some, like a couple pronged approach, right? Like someone who I worked with today who had a fear that asking for what he wanted made him selfish, he has that more of the giver, the nice guy.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Disease to please.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. And so really looking first at, okay, what does light you up? What does turn you on? And if there is shame in there. What I love about working with men is that I get to be a reflector or a woman who comes in and heals whatever that original relationship was. And so if a man was shamed or attacked or told that his desires are bad or wrong, that I get to come in with my, you know, genuine love of sex and of men and say, oh my gosh, you know, that's amazing, or that's hot, or I get to explore with him and if he's got shame, you know, there might be sadness, there might be grief, there might be anger, all of that. So we get to do that in the moment instead of him suddenly having that show up with a partner. And a partner who doesn't really know how to hold space for all of that, you know, so that he gets familiar with his own internal workings. And then he could actually go back to a partner. And when that arises, he would have more of a capacity to, you know, not dissociate or collapse into that, but actually stay connected with her and heal and do that together. There's that angle of bringing up desires, talking about the shame that's there, and then also helping people communicate and preframe certain experiences. Like I have a client who's going on a trip with a partner and I was like, okay, well instead of hoping and praying that this is going to build your sensual connection, let's start to look at what do you want out of this? And then how do you want to have a conversation with her before you go? And then what are all the different experiments or explorations that we can put in a document for you that you can choose from, so that you can actually build the sensual connection and then keep, you know, keep going with that.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Beautiful. I'm kin of curious if you have like a story, and it could be from either like a client's experience or even from your own life, like a moment that changed them or changed you forever, like almost like an inflection point. Was there something in your own healing journey at all that felt like you know, you hit a place in the road and you were different after that meeting place.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, I mean, there's a story in my book that I tell around the chapter is called The Myth of Happy Sex. And that, you know, thinking, oh, we have to get back to happier. We have to be happy to have sex. And there was an experience I had where a partner was, we were in bed, we weren't, having intercourse yet, but we were kissing or whatever. And he like pulled back and looked at me and said, you're not really that into this, are you? And, he said it with love. There was a little bit of like, Oh no, but mostly he was curious and loving and then I realized that I had been to a funeral that day and my heart was just in so much grief and I looked at him and I said, oh my God, you know? I was doing a really good job avoiding this until we started connecting and then my heart started opening, and then that's what was there. And i'm stuck in that and I just cried and he, you know, kissed my tears and held me and we ended up making love and it was so beautiful. And it was this moment where I really got that some of my favorite sexual experiences are not just happy, right? It's like, oh, I'm feeling frustrated, or there's energy, or I'm feeling grief, or I'm feeling. You know, tender and vulnerable, and will you tell me that you actually love me or see the beauty in me? And so the healing I think has happened there. And in other places where I get, oh, I don't, we don't have to show up and just be perfect and lie. We can be intimate with all of it.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:That's such a great example, right?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:That vulnerability that you were able to come to the table with in that particular instance brought you closer together and then you were having authentically honest good sex. Right? Instead of overriding. Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:And our hearts were just like, just melting, like said, Leah, like, yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:And and isn't it the tendency when we're feeling off, right? When we might be feeling vulnerable, we might avoid people, we might distance ourself from connection because we don't want to deepen what we're feeling and we don't want to expose this like tenderness or sadness or worry about judgment. If we brought it to those that love us, who would want nothing more than to hold us while we feel.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Totally. And I think that's, you know, I think there is a healing power. I think you would both agree, but you can tell me if you don't. But I think there's the healing power that I know that both of you have, you know, have done some of your work, right? And so we can heal through sex and we can heal through intimacy. And if we try to go it alone, we don't always get into those tender places and those places in our bodies and our emotions and our energy fields. And so, It's such a blessing to bring that to someone and to have them bring it to us. And if we change our paradigm of, oh, sex isn't about let's get happy and have sex. It's about let's be intimate and see whatever's here, whatever arises, we can connect in new ways and we can go beyond our identities and our egos, and we can heal our trauma. It's beautiful.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Even like when i'm observing Matt, he gets emotional at commercials. It's the most precious thing I've ever seen. I mean, you know, or he'll read something on Facebook and the next thing you know, he is got tears in his eyes and he just, he allows himself to be touched.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I love that.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:That's is something I find so precious. He's so lovable in those moments to me where I can feel him, and it's such a gift. That he has access to that. Now I have a harder time feeling my emotions, like my sad tears. I have a hard time crying sometimes. And it's amazing though when I do he, the way he looks at me is different. You know? Like
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I've heard so many men say that.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Like this, oh, I got you baby. And it's so beautiful and I'm so grateful and I sometimes I wonder, I wish that was easier for me. Lovely look of love.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:But that's so sweet to get to do that together and build on that and I've even had men tell me how turned on they are, you know, suddenly they're like, whoa, I'm not sure if this is okay, but you started crying and I got really turned on because it's it's alive.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:It's their pleasure to hold space for it, you know? So it brings this like sense of purpose and pleasure and yeah, being able to provide.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Right. And because of trauma. I would say there are people of all genders who get freaked out by emotions, so that the more that we can hold ourselves and our sovereignty of, I know that if I have trauma, I have emotions or I have shame, I'm actually okay. I'm a good lovable person and I'm feeling this right now. The more we can then say to someone, you know, will you just hold me or you don't? You, you, there's nothing you can do wrong right now if you're just here with me or we can teach and feel at the same time or kind of guide and feel at the same time. And it, I think it takes a lot of experience to be able to do that, but it's possible.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:I was going to ask you that actually, it was like the opposite of this is like, someone who puddles a lot, who gets lost in their emotions, who's falling apart, who you know, hangs out in the needy realm, wants someone to be their caretaker all of the time with their emotional connection to whatever they're feeling. And that can be overwhelming. It's oftentimes it kind it of kills attraction. And so I'm curious, how do you help someone who's kind of stuck in that?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:That's a great question. I think what I would say is, I help them recognize that that's a part, and also help them get in touch with the other parts, right? Because oftentimes, if we're, I love that word, puddling, as you said, it's a young part who, doesn't really know how to move through it or how to feel held and how to get what they need or find the resources they need. And so yeah, helping them tap into, all right, let's bring these other parts online and let's love this little part. And also see where are we falling, you know, inadvertently like or unconsciously into this part in our daily life. I know for myself, I still fall into my little one a lot and I forget that I am powerful and strong and clear and you know, and there's that little one that's scared and worries what people think of me and feels afraid that I don't belong when I meet new people and all these things. And I can witness that one and be like, okay, that's a part of me and I can bring it to my coaching session or my spiritual counselor or whatever. But I don't have to identify as that one and I don't have to live in that one all the time.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:I think what you're speaking to is so vital in healing from traumas from shame, guilt, whether it's a specific incident or from the collective taboo of sexuality, because a lot of the parts that we're grappling with and that are sort of overriding our experience and our perception are not even ours. They come from parents, they come from religion, they come from society, they come from culture, these parts. And so if we can identify this like okay this voice, like whose voice is that anyway, in my head of this particular part of me, is it even mine? And start to question it and start to get curious about, well, what would it be like if I just let that go? What would it be like if I had a conversation with that got close enough to it that I was able to release it and let it go?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I have had to come to terms with my mom's voice in my head. My mom is a loving person to everyone, I would say fully loving, but she has a lot of love, with my dad she's really mean and really nasty. And so I have a lot of voices in my head that I've worked with that are disgusted and that are, nothing is right and. And I've really had to, I have to separate from them. And I think it's been part of my journey around how to communicate and how to choose, like oh, just because that thought's in my head doesn't mean it's real and doesn't mean that I want to make that my reality or my, I don't want to necessarily speak from that part. I want to look at what are the different options and how can I see this, and then how I can, how can I communicate that would create more intimacy as opposed to just. Just listening to the loudest voice.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:you comfortable sharing a personal story of overcoming shame?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of body shame in my life. I've also had the shame of feeling like I'm too much or too sexual or want too much or too whatever that is. Like too slutty in a way. I mean, I've had so many experiences where my partners have been able to love my body more than I have loved my body. And so really slowing it down. I know like when I lay on my side and my belly kind of blubber over, hangs over or whatever, having had someone like put their hand on my stomach for a long time, I was just like, mom, no. Get the fuck away. Right. And so I've worked with that to have someone be able, like, kind of, okay, maybe if I lay on my back, you can touch it or maybe we can start, and then just really slowing it down to be able to look into someone's eyes and stay present in the moment and hear them say, I love your belly. Or it's okay that like it's soft and it's squishy and that actually makes me happy and it's a comfortable place to, you know, rest my face or, so I think for me, I'm sure I could come up with, dozens of stories, but that one has been an important part of my journey because, I think any place that we feel shame about our bodies, we get a little more contracted or a little more rigid, or we hold back or we don't feel free. And so it cuts off our own pleasure and our own capacity for connection. And there was a time too where in a workshop I stood naked in front of a mirror with like 30 people in the room of all genders. And we had to go up and say what we loved about our body. And at that point I was in my twenties and I was just sobbing for hours, waiting for my turn, and I could barely get anything out, and I think I walked up there and said, I like my arms. It was like that was all, and that was all I could say. But I had this epiphany after that where I realized that the body shame wasn't mine either. Right? It was growing up in this culture and with my mom hating her body and starting to realize that I could choose to love myself instead of trying to. If I fixed or if I got fitter, then I could love myself. It was like, no, actually I can start loving myself right now.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, I think that perspective shift is really what so much beauty and healing and release can come from just by changing the way you see things, and that comes from questioning your beliefs about things.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yes, for sure.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Which of course then changes your somatic response to it. It's like we have a belief that leads to an emotion. The emotion leads to a constriction or an expansion. I mean, so that who's it? Byron Katie, I think you did a training with her, right leah?
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Oh yeah, I've done a
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:It's all about question your thinking. Change the world and
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:it true? Yes. Is it really true?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. I love it.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Powerful to question your thoughts and not believe all of them. And so how did you start to modulate that voice that critical voice as compared to, well, I don't know if there was a different voice, but how did you work with that?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. Okay. I like this question. So part of how I worked with it was, I think through meditation and starting to build my capacity to witness that voice. And so to be able to hear it, but to hear it from a distance also, right? Like at first I was more fused with it, and that was just what arose, and then that was what came outta my mouth. And so meditation has really been a powerful tool to be able to watch it and see, oh, okay, that's what happens. And just like Willow just said, that's the thought, then that's the cascade in my body of the, you know, Emotional experience, the physical experience. And I made a committment, so I got divorced almost 11 years ago, and as I was digesting that whole thing, one of the things that came up for me was seeing how my, like, what do they say? Letting loose at the mouth or like just my unconscious speaking eroded trust in our relationship. And so those immature parts that were nagging, complaining you know, shaming whatever, like I really saw how they created, they broke trust and respect. And so I committed to myself, basically, my commitment, and I wrote about this in the book too, was like, I am not going to speak until I trust that what I say is going to create more connection rather than less connection. Now I'm human and so, you know, it's not always perfect, but I will say since I've made that commitment to myself, I've had very few fights or conflicts. Like I really, I've taken it on to myself and into myself and because it's such a clear statement to myself. I then know, all right, I'm going inside. I'm going to do this work. I'm going to take some space. I'm going to do whatever I need. And so I remember one time having a moment where a man said to me, well, if we were together, the morning time would be my time. I wouldn't be available to help you with your kid because I want to journal, I want to meditate. It's all my time. And I totally understood that. And I also started seeing red, and I was just like, oh. Fuck, that pisses me off so much. Like that's the hardest time, you know, by nine o'clock I'm like ready to go back to bed because my kid is so insane in the mornings at that point. And I just sat there and I closed my eyes and I said, I'm going to close my eyes for a couple minutes, and I'm not going to say anything until my nervous system settles down, until I trust that I'm going to say something that I like, I can respect myself. And so I just need, you know, I need to pause. And it works. I mean again, it's taken decades of spiritual practice and therapy and meditation to be able to not just react and to notice that there is a space in there that the Viktor Frankl quote that our capacity basically to notice that space and to respond instead of react creates a whole different dynamic Willow, like you were saying, that creates the upward spiral versus the downward spiral. That's, you know, gravitational pull is really strong when you start going down that downward spiral.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, and I love what you just used the word, this is the key word, the pause. You pause, you just pause. And sometimes you pause for five minutes and sometimes you pause for five days. You know, like you pause as long as you need to. Until you've gotten to a place of congruence inside of yourself, meaning your head, your heart, and your gut are on the same page and you're vagina or your lingham. And once they're on the same page, then you express, then you speak your truth. And, you know, this is actually the pause in pre and perinatal psychology, which is all about changing the the imprints that were laid down upon you from society and parents and everything, all the way back in the womb. So one of the key, practices is the pause, and I think it is, you know, if people could just pick that one piece up. A lot can change.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:And it's so powerful because it's not like I need to remember this and I need to remember that and I need to say it this way and I need to do all these things. It's just, I'm going to pause until I feel like a mature adult again instead of a raging.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Instead of a reactive teenager. Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Exactly.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah. And it really takes awareness. It takes a sense of discernment in the moment to be able to check in. And I think you can really use your nervous system in that moment to be like, whoa, am I feeling like, what is my nervous system feeling? Do I have all this heat in my head? Am I ready to rage or am I feeling contracted and constricted and closing down, or is there an openness inside of me?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yep.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah. So then what? What would you say, this is a question for both of you. What would you say? What should somebody do in the pause? Right. So I think a pause and I go, okay, what that's doing, it's creating space for me. Right? It's opening up a place for me to be with and maybe to metabolize some of the things that I'm feeling outside of like blasting or being unconscious about what I'm going to say to maybe hurt the other. So what is it like, is there something concrete that you could give people to do with their mind or their thoughts or their feelings in that pause?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. Yeah. So first thing I would say is breathe. You know, it's simple, but
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Profound.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Profound, right? Because when we bring our breath to all of this emotion and sensation we start to be able to digest it. We start to ground. One of the keys or like phrases that I give people a lot is to start to check in with what's vulnerable about this for me, because the surface reaction is a lot of you and this, and I hate that, or that's fucked up, or you know, all those things. But underneath that there's something painful or vulnerable. And so that brings it back into. All right. I don't have to blame this on someone else. I don't even have to say that there's something out there going on. It's actually something in here. And so starting to bring curiosity to yourself and starting to bring compassion and then starting to look at, all right, you know, what's vulnerable and you could, one of the things I'm thinking of, I know you had Alicia on here, and she and I have known each other for decades and we've been in grad school together, and I remember doing an exercise with her once where someone said view yourself through the eyes of someone you know absolutely loves and adores you. Right? And I remember her face coming to mind and it was like, oh, if I was looking at myself through her eyes, I would really have so much compassion for this part of myself. And it would allow it to soften and it'll allow me to feel safer to feel it, but know that I don't have to defend myself or protect myself like I'm already loved, right?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:I love that. I mean, that's very similar to what I would say as well. Like identifying that place, going to that place inside. Like where do you feel that, where do you feel the emotion? Where do you feel the hook? Where, what does it feel? What's the sensation of it? Is it sharp? Is it dull? Is it achy? And then making friends with it. Like treating it like a friend, treating it like a little kid. Go put your arm around that emotion or that sensation or that visual that you're getting when you really, really tune in and listen and just say, Hey, I see that you're here. It's okay that you're here and I'm wondering why you're here? Is there something you want me to know? You know? And just start to get to know it because there's actually, that's where the evolution happens. That's where the healing happens. That's where the medicine's at. So when we go into those, Shadows because they are unconscious until we bring them to the light, until we bring consciousness to them, which we can do, but we need time and space to do it, which is why the pause is so crucial.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:And like you said, it could be five minutes and it could be five days. And so sometimes there's going to be. I need to take out my journal, or I need to go have a conversation with someone who really does love me, or I need to meditate, or I need to exercise and move all this energy through my system. Right? There are, you know, many, many ways that we can do it.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:I think that's an important thing to bring up because You know, there's fast processors and there's slow processors in terms of how people move their emotions through their body. But there's also stone Wallers, and that is when you are taking that pause and you're using it to punish and, and not resolve and to, you know, do the silent treatment type of thing. I think that's really interesting. I've got a girlfriend right now who is really coming to realize just how much her parents used the silent treatment as a way to punish her. They didn't yell, they, there was no corporal punishment. It was just, they would just stonewall. And and how she now does it, now she's noticing how she's got three kids and it's going through divorce, how much she's adopted that. And it leads me to sort of wonder. How do we A, address a partner who has a tendency to do that and ask them to look at that. And then B, the inquiry for ourselves. One of the big breakthroughs I had during my relationship with Charles was to ask my, ask each other, what do you need to come back to love as quickly as possible?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I love that.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:processing space? And what do I need? Because I noticed I was flat out lying. I would run out of the room and slam a door and it presented leave me alone. But it was a test, because if you leave don't love me. If you come after me, it means you care. And that was such a setup. It was a setup for me. It was setup for him.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Failure.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:For setup of failure. Yeah, totally. And then his, I would've never guessed, I would've never guessed that for him, his way back to love was rub my feet. My dad had diabetes, my brothers diabetes, I have diabetes. The feet are important. If you're a diabetic, you got to get the circulation. So that looked like love.
Shana:Wow.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:And I would've never in a million years thought to rub somebody's feet to try to get them back from a fight. So I'm curious why, what you have to say to that and. I just threw a bunch of ideas out there,
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:I mean, and just to finish up your ideas, Leah, so at some point you were able to express that like, I want you to come after me. And that started to change.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, so I had to go through stages, right? Like I couldn't just stop the behavior just because I recognized it right away. I had to say, let me make an agreement with you, if I run out of the room and slam the door. If you take the risk in coming after me, my
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I will open
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:open the door and to show open my vulnerability and to put my Dukes down. I'm not going to be aggressive. I'm going to soften. Our cue of transition.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:You know, I got to tell you, I remember you talking about this, I think in my first workshop with you and Charles. And so I did sort of like try to use that in my own relationship because I'm also run that leaving pattern where I'm like, I'm out of here you know? But I want you to come after me. And I told him at one point, I'm like, I want you to come after me. He's like, you aren't not giving me anything to come after, like there's not, it's not worth it. I was like, ouch.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Then have to like use the idea, like we have to do our own work to really notice, okay, ooh, that's a painful one to take but actually I'm not, you know?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:It
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:that's where the negotiation can start, right? It's like, okay, if you give me this, I'll give you that.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Totally
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah. And
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:If you come after me, I will show up
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:give you something. Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yes. I mean, some of the, some of the guidance that I give my clients, you know, one are creating agreements and so outside of the heat of the moment, you two created an agreement. And so then when the heat of the moment happens, we know we can lean back on, oh, well she agreed that if I do this, she's going to do this. So, okay. Therefore, it makes it safer. And I also have people create a user guide or a user manual to each other where it's like, if I get upset, this is the thing that tends to bring me back. And if you get upset, what tends to bring you back? And so that way of actually looking and knowing, okay, now we both know, how each one tends to shut down or collapse or, and we start to get to know each other better. And then that way we're on the same team instead of being on opposing team.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, that's a great idea. User guide.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:And in the moment as it's happening, you know that simple question of like, what's going to be the fastest way back to love for you from this particular
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Wow.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:that we're in? And then you start keeping a running Google doc. Or you know, journal of that or whatever. Just keep adding to it. Pretty soon you got a user manual for your partner.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Totally.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:And you know what I discovered over time is I didn't need that strategy anymore. I don't run out of the room anymore and slam the
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Right. You overcame that?
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:that. Yeah. You overcome And I'm trying to think, what do I do now? I'm sure I got a bad habit somewhere.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:You what? That's really well said. I'm sure, I'm sure I have a bad habit somewhere too. And you know, for the most part, it's hard for me to remember a time when I did something that was, shaming, blaming, attacking, explosive, stonewalling, like it just right when we work through them and we actually face those shadow parts and love them and give them what they need and then we can actually be vulnerable with our partners instead of doing all those other things to try to protect ourselves.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:And it really doesn't take that long. Like what's been, let's say a client comes to you, Shana, and they're like, I'm doing all these things. It's causing all this disharmony in my relationship. I mean, you can work with them for how long do you usually go work with them until you start to see a transformation change?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, I mean, I tend to start with a six month commitment with people and I see transformation much sooner. If someone, you know, I think I have another story in my book where a man went back to his wife and instead of creating that downward spiral of arguing, when she was nagging at him, he said something like, oh, I just feel like I got punched in the gut. And he came back to me the next week and was like, oh my God. When I didn't defend and then she didn't defend, then we had this amazing conversation and we actually, you know, got closer than we have been in years. And so it can happen fast and some of our habits. You know, what do they say? Have it die hard.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Well, our conditioning is really wired. Yeah, our nervous system is really hardwired with that fundamental conditioning that we were surrounded with as we were developing. And so that can be kind of tricky to find our way out of that. And what helps is if you change your conditions. Like take a look at who's influencing you in your life and are you reacting? Are you growing from that, or are you not? And so I think that's an interesting aspect to the whole dynamic, I think too. What you're saying is, well, what's possible is when we get, when we start to believe and like strengthen the muscle that my partner really is a safe place for my vulnerability. They aren't going to drop me. And when you can show that you're really there for your loved ones and you're going to go the distance that fosters connection. And there's something, there's actually, I just read something today about oxytocin being released in the body when people handle an obstacle together. But when we try to handle obstacles apart, and we are not united, in conquering something together, it can go one way or the other. It can be awful. Or it can be like, wow, we're stronger together now. You know? It's of like having productive fights because what you just described is really a productive fight when you're in a disagreement, but you end up getting closer afterward.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:You know, we can't, conflict is inevitable. We're not going to love what somebody does all the especially if we're living with them. And so, yeah, it's more about having, doing conflict well rather than thinking it's not going to happen, right? We're bad or wrong if it does happen.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:What are some of the complaints you hear from men?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I think a lot of the complaints I hear from men are around women being hard on them, women nagging and complaining. Saying that they want them to open up, but then being disgusted or being, you know, saying that they're not attracted anymore. Kind of just pulling away when they actually do get vulnerable. Women not revealing what's going on and kind of just flip flopping back and forth or just, bailing and leaving. It's funny because I think, the idea out there is that men tend to ghost and men are not vulnerable. But I see it happening both ways.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Sure. What do you think we could be doing better?
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Hmm. All of us.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I think I, I'm a huge fan of vulnerability and like one of you said, you can test it out to build it over time. So I'm not saying dump the biggest, most vulnerable thing first, but you know, I think vulnerability and maturing our communication so that we're being honest and again, when we have our own backs, and I know that I've got myself. Then I can actually start to reveal more and be more vulnerable and not be afraid of what you're going to think of me. And so then we get to have more intimacy and that to me creates, you know, relationships that, that actually last and that stay connected over time and get hotter over time.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:You know, that kind of reminds me of what you always say, Willow. It's like that's the cultivation of self-trust when you trust yourself then you can actually trust yourself to be vulnerable, because it's a gift you're giving you. And you don't have to take personally someone's ability to hold your vulnerability because it's really about them and their own fears or their own lack of skillset or capacity. And then you hold yourself, you know where to come home to, you know where home is.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Exactly. So the other work we're doing then I think is working with our own shame and really doing the work to love ourselves and to choose a state of love and self-love as opposed to self-loathing and self-doubt and all of that, which is not easy. It's definitely one of the things I struggle with.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Oh, it can be so challenging. Okay, I want to shift a little bit because you're a mama, so this is valuable. And so what would you like, what kind of advice would you give to other parents who are raising teens in this wild world today and like around, like, what are some things that you can support your kids with as they're coming of age around not taking on the collective shame around really trusting themselves, vulnerability coming home, having a sense of authentic core.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, I feel like I'm a baby in parenting even though I have an 11 year old. It's just always new every day, but the thing that I really try to do is welcome their responses and their reactions and their emotions, and start from a place of, let me understand you. Let me be with you and love you in the way that I felt more dissed or more like, oh yeah, you'll be fine. Or someone didn't have the emotional capacity to be with me. And so, even though my family looks at me and they're like, well, you know, your kid cries a lot, or your kid does this a lot. And I'm like, yeah, but they're actually feeling their feelings, you know? And then my practice has been to, okay, connect, be with understand. And then like my kid was crying the other day over the card game war. And she was like, I hate this game. It's stacked against me and all, you know, all the things. And I was like, do you remember that you won twice yesterday? And do you remember? So it's like, then I'm trying to start to help her see, oh, this is one of the things I got from Positive Intelligence Coaching, which is, all different Practices and psychologists have different ways of framing it, but they frame it as our saboteur voices versus our sage voices. And so helping her really check in to see, oh, am I looking through my sage mind or am I looking through my saboteur mind? And that really impacts how I see people and how people respond to me and how I respond to people. So I'm trying to be, you know, a parent who gives some kind of relational education, because I feel like that's sorely missing from our world and our education system.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:I love that. Cause it's like you're planting seeds so that. They can have the skill of building emotional capital with themselves and then like with others. because I think that's the key to like, there's a deeper intimacy want to reimagine together. It's, it's when we have that deep intimacy, when we're holding each other, you know, safely in the vulnerability. When we strive to understand our partner, even if it doesn't make sense, you know, to us at first, you putting yourself in that position of empathy and then you're starting to build this emotional capital so that when you have a big blowout, it doesn't have to knock you completely off center. You get to come back to the to the midline and that whole process of processing a little bit quicker so that you don't have to be in hell quite as long.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Right. And showing them, it's hard for me because I want to be the perfect parent. Obviously I'm not, I mean, I know I'm doing all kinds of things that are going to later have my kid be in therapy. But, you know, I want to be a good parent. But I recognize kind of like conflict is inevitable. I'm going to miss things and I'm going to make mistakes. And so for me, the repair feels important too, to come back and say, I'm sorry, I said that I didn't, that wasn't my best. Or that didn't feel like I really honored you. And to be able to receive that. Like, yeah, I didn't like that, or I hated that, or that made me pissed off. And like, I can totally understand that and that makes sense. And versus being defensive, so me doing more of my own work. That I bring to my romantic relationships. It's also, you know, bringing to my parenting relationship of like, okay, I'm going to be humble here.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Here's another. Like tidbit, I'm curious what you both have to say is about vulnerability. Like, I think my mom did a really good job at just being authentic in her own vulnerability. It gave me permission.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:That's so awesome.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:There was something and it wasn't, she didn't have to strategize it. She was just being herself and it built I think something around forgiveness and empathy in me that I've really valued. And so I'm wondering if either of you had modeled an authentic way for your parents not being perfect that you now draw on as a strength.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:I mean, I would say if my parents weren't perfect, But there was no modeling. There was a lot of like pulling it together and not wanting to show what was really going on beneath the surface and not even knowing what was going on beneath the surface. To be honest, not a lot of self-reflection. So yeah, I didn't really have that model. Did you, Willow?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, I think my parents did a pretty good job of being authentic in their emotions. I mean, obviously, you know, it was, if they'd maybe grown up in the world that we're in now, you know, would have been even more. But based on what they grew up in and in religion and, you know, in a sort of a dogmatic upbringing and many layers of what that means. They did. I think they did the best that they could. And one of the things that you know, that I really learned, and I for years, I I was like, why do I have so much faith? Like, why do I have so much trust in the universe I. Because people would comment on that and I'd be like, I don't know where it comes from. God just gave it to me. I don't know where it comes from. And then one year I was like, hark, it comes from my dad. You know? I was like, wow. He has more faith than anyone I've ever known. And so it makes me emotional even just thinking about it. Because it's such an incredible example of what it means to just trust, to surrender. We're just talking about the Surrender Experiment last night. If you have not read or heard that book it is phenomenal.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:love it. I also just listened to the Magic Of Surrender, so that's another.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Oh, I don't know
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:How beautiful, he passed it on to you, right? He gave you that gift just through his very being.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:And on the flip side to that, I had another parent who wrestled with vulnerability, and when he felt vulnerable he got angry. Instead of feeling his fear or his. I had these kind of opposing models and I certainly adopted both of them.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:As we do.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yes, we do. Yes. Yes. So tell us a little bit about your book.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Yeah, so I wrote Honest Sex because I started seeing that a lot of people in relationships as they looked for. What was going to bring back the spark? Or why had they been in a relationship where, you know, passion faded, connection faded. People were like, oh, we can use toys or we can try this new practice, or we can, you know, lingerie. And I was like, that's not really getting there. And so I have auth you know, facilitated authentic relating events for a couple of decades. And it was like this crossover of spiritual practice, authentic relating events, you know, sex and Tantra and all of that. And really starting to be more honest and part of my practice has been to be honest with myself, like what is actually going on for me and what am I really feeling? And so I wanted to bring together this sense of how do we be honest in a way that creates connection and passion that builds over time. And whether you're single or dating, you know, that you can start to have these more honest conversations with yourself and start to have more honest conversations with partners and on dates, you know, as soon as a first date or as soon as a text flies back and forth between, you know, on whatever app we're on. And so really bringing that in with, okay, how do I be honest with myself? How do I be more honest with others in a way that creates passion instead of distance? And then, Getting more honest, I think, about what sex actually is, because I didn't know for a long time that sex could be sacred and that, you know, I could have sexual energy energetically and emotionally, and that it didn't, it wasn't just like this physical thing. And so the second section is really about what is sex and what is orgasm and how do we have more of it, and how does it become more pleasurable and more intimate and. And then I gave in the last section tools for talking about sex and creating intimacy and sensuality. I think one of the chapters is called How to Talk About Sex Without Killing Your Sex Life or something. Because most of my clients come to me and they're like, but I don't want to, I don't want to kill it by talking about it. And I'm like, no, that's that doesn't have to happen. We about it in a way that
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:more life to it by talking about it.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Cool. And so I understand your free gift is is the chapter in the book
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:What is Sex Actually.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:What is it actually? So that's great. Well, thank you so much. It's been fun to visit.
Shana James | SxR Guest Sexpert:Thank you ladies for doing this and for really. Broaching the topic. I know that we all do tend to work with, okay, how do we have more pleasure and how do we open more? And we also see a lot of the struggle and the pain and the trauma that people go through. So thank you for making this available for people and helping everybody get okay, we're not wrong, we're not bad, we're not hopeless. You know, we've all got the trauma and there are ways to work with it.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah. Thank you. So everybody, don't forget to visit the Man Alive Podcast. Tune in where you can just bask in, um, Shana's Genius.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:And sign up for her chapter on her book.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yes. And then we're on episode 261 of, Man Alive Podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So, thank you for your free gift and let's stay in touch. Love, love, love everybody.
Shana:Thank you for having me.
SxR Announcer:Now, our favorite part, the dish.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Dish, dish, it's your dish of the hour, Shana, Shana, we're having her for lunch, and dinner, and dessert, and maybe breakfast too. She's my smoothie this day, Shana, Wow, what a, what a song!
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:What an intro, oh my god, this is the dish for Shana James. Shana James is an incredible woman who coaches men in their sexuality and, um, you know, it's been a pleasure of mine to know her for a really long time many multiple years over a decade and watch her career develop and grow and thrive and expand and evolve. And it was so fun to sit with her during this last interview and just really hear about some of the deeper nuances and things that she gets to do with men and how that transforms their lives.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah, I love the deep water that she is. You know, it was, it's interesting, you know, doing these shows and feeling everyone's different flavors and some people are like so filled with all the techniques and the geeky little tricks. And I love that. And then I also just love hanging out in the deep water of other people that are always going below the surface. And, uh, they're so good at taking you right along with them. And that's kind of what my, I felt like my experience was with Shana today.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah. Yeah. She does a great job of just kind of being with what is, which I think is so valuable. Especially when she is using mirror neurons to help men because there's a, you know, this total generalization around penis owners, but the fact there's this idea of not being with what is, you know, like accepting what is, is a challenging thing. And that's true, actually for everyone, um, for all genders. Uh, but yeah, like you said, there's a depth to her that really allows people to actually feel what's authentically true for them. And her book, Honest Sex, really speaks to that on every level, like what is authentic and what is true and how, how do you get to that truth? We can't just keep doing what we've always done. It's not working anymore. So we need to really find another way forward. And we talked about the pause and the pause is so crucial to discovering.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:I think, too, you can tell, like, I don't know if people can tell who, I think coaches can really pick up when other coaches have really good, powerful questions that invoke that kind of deeper discovery. And I had to write down the question, you know, what's vulnerable about this for you?
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Ah,
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Because I was like, oh, ding, ding, ding. That is such a good question. I think about someone asking me that when I'm revved up and I'm stressed out and I'm reacting with a lot of intense energy, for someone could just be Just help me zing right in and go, what is, how is this vulnerable for you? What about this is vulnerable for you? I think it would just tenderize me. I think like everything
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Stop you in your tracks. Yeah.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:it's such a good pattern interrupt question. If, if you are the type of person who are invested in wanting to have those answers. But for me, sometimes if a question doesn't come at me, I don't have access to what I really need.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Right. Right. For, for others that question could throw them even deeper into pattern and reaction.
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:It might not be the question for them, but yeah, it struck a chord with me.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, it's a great question. I think as well. Yeah
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Yeah. Well, thank you, Shana. This was fun and everyone go check out Man Alive podcast and get yourself a chapter and buy the damn book y'all.
Dr. Willow | SxR co-host:Yeah, buy her book
Leah Piper | SxR co-host:Love, love, love.
SxR Announcer:Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.