Caroline Muir, OG of the sacred sexuality world, pioneered teaching Tantra practices with her former husband, Charles Muir, bringing consciousness to sexuality across the globe since the 1980s. A prolific author and revered teacher, Caroline continues empowering women to tune into their divine feminine energy.
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Caroline Muir, OG of the sacred sexuality world, pioneered teaching Tantra practices with her former husband, Charles Muir, bringing consciousness to sexuality across the globe since the 1980s. A prolific author and revered teacher, Caroline continues empowering women to tune into their divine feminine energy.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:
EPISODE LINKS *some links below may also be affiliate links
Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Use Coupon Code KINGANDQUEEN10 for 10% off. https://www.sexreimagined.com/the-king-and-queen-of-hearts
Awaken Arousal Oil Lubricant "I had a 3-minute orgasm and then a 5-minute orgasm." - Beth https://exploreforia.com/awaken-so?irclickid=wyXW6byI5xyNWouwIoQAUS1GUkAx4m1JsS6bSc0&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=Impact&utm_campaign=Sex%20Reimagined&utm_c
SxR Hotline | SxR Website | YouTube | TikTok | Pinterest | Instagram | Dr. Willow's Website | Leah's Website
You're in for a treat, because today we have Caroline Muir, a total legend in the Tantra world. She is an OG of the OGs, and her career started in 1985 when her and Charles Muir took Tantra on the road and shared it with all of us. She's one of the originators of the Sacred Spot Massage co-author of Tantra; the Art of Conscious Loving, wrote the book, Tantra Goddess, A Memoir, and she has been in this work inspiring hundreds of thousands of people to transform sex into an art form. And it is such a privilege and an honor to have Caroline Muir today with us.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah, so tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Caroline Muir.
Announcer:Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:We're so excited to be here with you, and thank you for joining us all the way from Panama. It is such a pleasure and an honor to connect with you personally for the first time myself and Leah has quite a long history and relationship with you, We know how wise you are in the world of sacred sexuality and all that it brings.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. The wisdom comes
from years of just teaching
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:it and living it and watching the transformations in people.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah. You know, I was
thinking about when I first
Leah | SxR Host:discovered you and I was about 18 years old. I was a senior in high school and I fell in love with this bongo drummer who was way too old for me. And first time I'd ever been in love. And I was having the kind of love making I didn't even know existed. And when we broke up, I was devastated. But, he left all of his artwork and all of his literature at my house. Wow. And so I started going through the books and that's when I discovered Tantra, the Art of Conscious Loving by Charles and Caroline Muir. And I remember looking at the back cover and looking at this picture of you and the thing that struck me. And even though it's just like a black and white picture, there was a sparkle in your eyes that matched the sparkle in your smile. And I read this book and just had one aha after another aha. And I just couldn't believe that this spiritual epic thing in love I was experiencing was stuff he read in a book. Yes. It was just, on the one hand, I was sad because I'm like, gosh, why didn't you tell me about this book? And maybe we could have partnered in a certain way. And then on the other hand, I was like, oh, then this isn't really about him. This actually is pointing to what exists in me and what if I could cultivate this in such a way that I could have this anytime, anywhere with anyone. And so that's what that book sent me on
my way. And probably,
Leah | SxR Host:I don't know, maybe five, six years later, someone tells me, oh, you know, you can study Tantra. People have workshops on Tantra. I'm like, they do? So I'm looking at the internet, and the Internet's super young at this point, you know. Not a lot on the internet, but I discovered that the people who I was popping up were all people who had studied with you guys. And then I thought, well, wouldn't it be serendipitous for the first book I ever read on the topic to go to that seminar? And so I did. And before I left, I stopped at a friend's
house and she had a
Leah | SxR Host:guest who happened to be a psychic. And I said, well, hey, I'm going to the seminar. What can you tell me? And he said, you are going to become a personal friend in these people's lives and pay special close attention to Caroline. How you conduct yourself will matter. Oh my God. I know. I completely kind of, I don't know where I took this memory. That's a cool story. Yeah. But I it came about. And so, you know, months and months later, probably a year later when Charles and I were first starting to get romantically involved, I remember before our first date, me coming to you and going, I just want to make sure I have your blessing. And do you remember what you told me?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I don't remember what I told you. I think I. Please do. Yeah. You
Leah | SxR Host:were so generous. You were so sweet. You and him had
already been divorced and I think
Leah | SxR Host:you were still, you were dating Will at the time, who you're now married to, and you said I chose him to be my healer and you would be a damn fool if you didn't choose him to be yours.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:He does that well. It is a skill. It's a
skill, yeah. How long
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:were you and Charles married? How long were you together and how long were you married? We
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:were together about 15 years. And before that, about eight years as teacher student. I was in his yoga classes. Okay. And I took about seven or eight years to look at each other and go, maybe we'll take the next step. Yeah. And that step was really an invitation into belovedness. And I said, I want to help you get your work out to the world. That will motivate me entirely. Wow. Beautiful. So I threw myself at his feet.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:I love it. And
even before before you
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:got together with Charles, like sexual healing was sort of coming to you kind of organically,
right? Like the universe
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:was kind of giving you opportunities to bring that to people.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:heard about it at yoga retreats and a girlfriend had gone to Charles for this thing called sexual healing. And of course I was like, on the edge of the bed, tell me everything. Did he go down on you? Did he enter you, did he? And she said, hon, it was none of that. Wow. It was nothing like that, and then I just said, I have to know what that's like. And I was telling some friends
yesterday, that first
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:time with Charles in a real session where he just held the honor and the respect for me, the goddess, I didn't know I was a goddess, that's for sure. Or that my yoni was connected to her in any way. So that was big information. When he, he delivered that to me, I'll never forget it. Changed my life. Powerful.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. So what was your journey then at to go from helping Charles bring this into the world, teaching it alongside with him for so
many years, how long
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:did it take you before you were doing Dakini work, working with people one-on-one?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well, you know, we started offering ourselves privately to various women that we met who came along, and I was really eager to share him, initially. I really wanted them to have the experiences I had had. And but it, gradually grew into bigger sexual experiences I was less and less comfortable
with, though I tried to like it. And I learned
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a lot about women and I learned a lot about my own limitations
as far as loving women
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:and not loving women. And so, it was totally a learning curve. But I, like how I've
graduated into the private
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:work with women where it never, there's never a problem with ever it going beyond the work itself. Yeah. And so women really feel safe with me.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. So you primarily work with women
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:privately? Yeah. Or couples. I love to teach the men how to be present
for women. And have them
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:sit next to me and do it with me. That's been very transformative. Yeah, so tell
Leah | SxR Host:us a little bit about what your process is working with women privately now, and or couples. How does the
journey start? I'm assuming
Leah | SxR Host:they come to you in Panama. How long do they stay? What's it look like for people who've, never had this experience before?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah, at first
it started when I was
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:living in Nevada and they, a lot of women were coming from the SF Bay area out to Lake Tahoe or Genoa and doing private session, doing three day immersions with me because I had a place for them to stay. It was like a three day drop into themselves and I filled the apartment they stayed in with all the books and literature that we had available back then and videos. And they, worked, did sessions with me every day for a couple hours. I would always
massage them and then invite
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:them to receive a sacred spot massage if they felt
ready and they were
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:always eager to do that. Yeah. Yeah. often there'd be no feeling, numb
feelings, emotions, very little
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:pleasure. Uhhuh. I
found women with women
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:and it's, there's just not a lot of invitation. Even if they are invited to feel their pleasure, they still hold that back. And cause there's still a lot of fear around showing your sexual side intimately with another woman or an older woman, or someone who's not your lover.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Right. Now, I'm curious
about just the polarity, like if they're
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:heterosexual woman, if they've been orienting toward men all their lives and now maybe they're having a sexual experience for the first time with you, with a woman. And the charge, because when I've worked with women there has been sort of a lack of, you know, a lack of positive negative charge.
Like a lack of arousal,
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:heat, fire charge. So, so I'm just curious about how you would navigate that piece of working with a woman.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well, I would make it okay to not feel aroused and I would move slowly into more depth or more speed or more what I knew would bring them arousal and then encourage them to make sounds and encourage them when it's okay that it doesn't mean anything. You know, to me, other than it's your body and your pleasure and you have a right to go in and feel more of yourself. I will never take advantage of you and so I think the more I was able to
create safety the more they
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:could get there to their emotion. Yeah. And feel something. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah.
You know, I experience
Leah | SxR Host:the same thing. There aren't a lot of women in my work that bring themselves to the table of pleasure and I think a part of that is some of what you're saying, Willow, there's like a neutralizing my
particular energy is quite
Leah | SxR Host:heterosexual. It's just how I'm wired. I wish I had other wiring sometimes because I think well the more,
the better. But it just
Leah | SxR Host:is what it is. And so I find that my energy does end up neutralizing the feminine. And what I've come to see is that oftentimes there are more important places to go than cuming. And to have a chance to actually discover what the therapeutic potential is to this part of the body when you don't actually have to worry about, you know, reaching an orgasm or trying to reach for arousal. It's like, well, you're so much more than that, and this part of our body is so much more than just our peak potential in pleasure. There's a depth there that when you stop seeking and grasping and longing for some sort of orgasmic proof of your adequacy, you get to discover there's a lot more range to be felt as a woman. And this is a part of our body that never gets treated therapeutically and yet everywhere else on our body does. But when massage therapists, it's not legal for them to, you know, honor and touch this very sensitive, very psychic, very emotional part of our system. You know, that's how I've made sense of it.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:yeah, this is the first time and the only time I'll probably ever do this. Yeah. But I feel transformed by it. So powerful.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:It's amazing. It's really powerful. Yeah. Now what, when you're working with
couples, like what have
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:you, what are some of the breakthroughs that you've seen with, you know, men being like, oh my God, didn't even know this part of the body existed. Wow. just that kind of up.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. Well, getting them to slow down with their own energy and for her energy is always they need, they need support with that. Yeah. They don't know, haven't been taught, they want to keep going and we aren't necessarily ready to get going yet, but the sacred spot Massage really does help us get more ready to get going guys. Right? Yeah. So, that was always eye-opening for them. And then what was also really big for the men is when they had a turn to receive and I would teach their woman or wife or girlfriend how to do the sacred spot massage on, and they really grasp what receiving was about and communication and being present. And it was in his receiving that he really got what it was like for her. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:you know, I know that you know Charles was a big sort of professional mentor, certainly in the beginning of your work. I'm wondering if there was anyone else who you really saw as a professional mentor to you, especially if there was a woman that you sort of looked upon us as a mentor, because you've been a mentor for so many of us. I mean, there's so many people who would name you as that person. I'm curious if you have someone you would name.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:It's
true and I'm, I have
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:to really reach into seeing if there is anyone, right. Other than the women who have opened in love to me and have helped me get comfortable with being in deep love and connection
with them. So each of
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:them in
that way has mentored
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:me through my fear of loving women. And I finally then had a love affair with a woman, and she was mostly, as she said, gay in her
life. And I kind of
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:went, well, maybe
I am too now that I've,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:and it's so
much fun. Being gay
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:wouldn't be so bad. Right. But I'm very wired for the
masculine. But I love
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:feeling like I'm in balance with how I can love women. Yeah, and be loved by women and open to them in a safe way. Yeah. Because I was always afraid of women. They were not my friends.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:So you did a lot of healing with the Divine Feminine through this work. And a lot. I've been working also with women individually and couples and all of the
above. And you know,
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:sometimes they come in and they're like, I just, I don't know
how far I want to take it. Not sure I want to even disrobe
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:or take my clothes off. And, it seems like to me they always get exactly what they need no matter what sort of level of clothing they, take off or go
with. And so, what's been
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:your experience with, working with women who are maybe more modest, more shy? They don't maybe need to go that far to get the healing that they came for?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah, but they usually do. That's
what I find. They finally,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:when it comes to pulling off their panties and letting me observe them, and we get into those moments of I'm just observing you in your most private domain, and really get them to breathe through that shyness, shame, embarrassment. Because every woman I've spoken to said, yeah, the first time a man usually but would look at our yoni and comment on it we were
like, oh, you got to be kidding.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Not that's not that beautiful. Come on. And stuff like
that. So we haven't,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:had an opportunity to appreciate ourselves and let Yeah. Yeah. Slow down. Exactly.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:I think that vulva witnessing that you're speaking to is so powerful to do even on your own. Like if you're
coming to a professional
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:session to do that, grab
a mirror and look at
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:your own vulva beforehand and just kind of, you know, check it out the folds. And Leah and I just connected with these women who are doing readings of
the vulvas. Like Oracle
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:readings Fascinating. They're like, look, Willow, you have an elephant in your vulva. That means the matriarchal ancestral da da da.... I was like, all right, cool.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah. The eye of Ra yeah, totally. There's a dolphin tail. It's really a trip to see, how far the work that really you put on the map has come in terms of where people are opening up to a new creative expression in all of this. And I'll say like my first work with holding another woman's vulva and her yoni and her sacred spot came from a weekend I did with you. And something really struck me. It was, wow, this is so beautiful, I had no idea. And you just kind of get that hit over the head that's like, that must be what I'm like. And you don't really know the profundity of that until you, until someone trusts you, another woman really
allows you to care for
Leah | SxR Host:her in that way and to touch her in such a sacred way. I think some people might hear, you know, women doing this work and they get sort of an idea in their head of it being some sort of hot porn. But really it's a sacred ceremonial experience of people discovering the beauty of themselves from the inside out.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:That's exactly what I always want to create for them, and they don't know how to create it for themselves because they're shy and embarrassed and they're the one receiving and they're the one getting naked, not me.
Yeah. So, they're the
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:ones that are in the most vulnerable place. Yeah. So how, you know, touch them and how I look at them is as much a part of any massage. It's the whole experience of accepting. Yeah. And that reverence.
Leah | SxR Host:yeah. That you bring to the table and that feeling of an
initiation and so I know
Leah | SxR Host:that through that you must encounter, you know, this shame spiral that often can arise when someone is encountering themselves at that like raw, vulnerable level. Because nothing like being naked spells out I'm vulnerable and then somebody like bringing so much attention to you, and so I'm kind of curious how you help someone, navigate and move through shame and then also what your own experience of shame, overcoming shame has been
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:like. Well, I'd have to go back a few years. You know, it's just one of the, it is one of the factors that we carry from our preteen years is discovering our body. And we are never assisted by anyone, our moms, our, nobody assists us and how to go about it, how to go about finding ourselves and touching ourselves and loving ourselves and accepting what we look like. And so I guess the, the divine mother in me really comes out in those moments, and I guess that is the divine mother part of me, that gives her the words and the touch of great acceptance for what you have. And that's when the women will often say, yeah, but I always thought my labias were too big and I've got this, big clitoris down there and you know, I, or I've never found it. There's that one that has happened a few times. And so it's a, it's a such a discovery. It's such a discovery that no one's ever had, because no one's ever shown us how to do these things. Right. And so's so true. I love the question about how I think the world is changing because there's more of us, you and Dr. Willow and Leah and myself really doing this work. And now someone has come to me in my building where I live in
Panama, a Canadian woman
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:and she is all over with a aliveness to take this workout with me. And so now I've got a whole nother career to look at God re-putting it out
there again with his sister
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:like you guys are doing together. Yeah. And that's great. And she's fourty four and full of energy and oh, we'll do all the computer stuff and my husband does everything, the website and da, and I go, okay great, because I don't want to do any of that.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. I'll just show up and teach. I'll show up and talk. Share
my wisdom. Well that's
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:fantastic. There is something really special about collaborating with another woman. You know, it's been amazing for us so far. So yeah,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I can feel it with you guys and when she and I have been recording the last couple of days and just sitting next to each other and just really liking each other a lot, you know, and Yes. And willing to say these
things and she's underlined
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:everything in the book, Leah The, but the
book is her Bible and
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:she quotes from it already and she's like referring to me as the queen Is Queen. The Queen. And yeah. Queeny it, it's really fun. Yeah. It's.
Leah | SxR Host:Well, tell us a little bit about the book because I was such a fun read, y'all, I have to say, when Caroline's
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:book the Tantra Goddess came out... Oh my god, out. It was, I read it in like one plane ride and then my boyfriend read it in one plane ride, he was like trying to hide it from everyone on the plane because it's like a hot pink cover, you know? It was so
Leah | SxR Host:fun. I kept on like, gasping every chapter, like, oh my gosh. Oh
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:my gosh. It was so fun. And I love the piece around Ojai. That's kind of what I was referring to earlier, because I grew up in
Ojai. So, so how you
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:had that one
man in Ojai who that kind
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:of sexual healing just really naturally and organically happened. That was really beautiful.
Ojai was a very important
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:time in my life. I love it there so much. Yeah, it's a great place. Yeah, the book, my, the book I wrote the memoir or, yeah. I knew one day in my years with Will, I said, if I don't record the memories of the experiences I had in those years with Charles and the men that he invited to love me and what those experiences were, I just
don't ever want to forget them
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:because they were so precious. Yeah. So precious and healed me so much of my uncertainty about men. And of course Charles is a full generosity to love my, love my beloved with all your heart
and soul. And we got
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:to do
that. And I, you know,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I was really very expanding to every part of me. So writing the book over five
years. I often wrote chapters
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:of writing on the airplane between San Francisco
and Maui cause I still
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:had my house there. And writing, writing, and then editing and then going back and starting from the beginning of my life, like what drove me to seek something like sexual healing. Right. And I'm hearing Charles in a yoga class as my yoga teacher speak of Tantra and sexuality. That word was never mentioned in any yoga class ever. That's right.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:.Wow. So still isn't a lot. Still isn't much. Yeah. No. You know, sometimes, occasionally, but definitely not much.
Leah | SxR Host:Right, right. And not from such an empowered permissionist, pleasure forward perspective.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:From somebody who's embodying and practicing it.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. Right.
Yeah. And I really loved
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:his commitment to be honest about his sexuality as a man, as a spiritual man. Right, right. Because we think they shouldn't be sexual if they're spiritual.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:So it took you five years to write that book. Okay. That makes me not feel so bad because mine's been written for three and it's just the publishing part is taking forever
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Publishing or the editing part takes forever.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:I know. The editing takes forever. Publishing, yeah. The writing itself is a whole thing. Yeah. So, okay, so if you haven't read that book,
y'all, you got to pick it up.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:It's amazing. It's such a fun read. You'll read it in a weekend. It's amazing. Yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Thank you. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:That's, you know,
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:the title is Tantra
Goddess. Yeah. Yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:A Memoir of sexual Awakening. Yes. With my picture on the cover, and, you know, I still get people reading it, I still get people wanting to work with me because they read the book.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. That's fantastic. How, many clients? Like how many three days are you doing, you know, in a month, let's say?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well, it everything stopped in the pandemic, of course. So that has slowed down the private work completely and totally here in Panama. And before that, they were coming pretty regularly, a couple times a month. Staying at the Marriott hotel next door and I would go work with them in their room. And I live in the apartment building right next door, so it was super convenient and they loved coming here
because the weather's
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:great, the restaurants are great, the pools are great, and the amenities are wonderful.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. And Panama's affordable. I love Panama.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Panama. Seductive and Delicious. I never thought that I could live outside the
US and not want to go back.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Right, right.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:How long have you been there now?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Five years. Okay. Wow. You know, early. I think we need to
Leah | SxR Host:go visit Leah. Yeah, I think so too. Let's go, let's do it. I'm ready. Ready for a va-kay. Yeah. You know, we were talking earlier about, you know, this working with letting go of our shame and getting comfortable with our bodies and encountering ourselves, and especially through the yoni and the second chakra and the genitals, and like really finding a pathway that says
I'm okay. And maybe
Leah | SxR Host:I'm just not okay. Maybe I really am beautiful. Yeah. Maybe there is something really special that's connecting me with down there. You know, what if it wasn't so shrouded in shame? And it makes me wonder about, what is it that, what advice would you give to parents as they're raising kids who are coming of age? What is it that we could be doing better? Do you have some insight on that?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well,
I sure do with the girls. I did a course
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a couple years ago called Living A Turned on Life. And girls are so afraid to live in a turned on way because they might get raped, they might attract the wrong boys. The parents would just.... it can be dangerous. Yeah. Very dangerous and there is some truth
in that, women are,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:who carry their sexuality anywhere on the outside definitely are the ones you look at in the hotel lot. They get more attention. Yeah, her
butt, you want to look at her breasts and you want to look at her feminine beauty. So it's, it's
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a difficult call. I've had a lot of conversations with parents
where you want to protect the
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:kids, but you
also don't want to close them
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:down. And so education seems to me, is to be the only answer, education that we start with what we're doing with them at 12
years old. So that they
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:know what they have and they know who's going to want it and why they're going to want it, and how to protect it. But how to live in the aliveness of their own body and yet be, you have to be
cautious too. Boys have something they want to poke in there. Yeah. It's
Leah | SxR Host:like really about discernment,
isn't it? Being able
Leah | SxR Host:to go, everyone's going to want it, and
so should you, because
Leah | SxR Host:ultimately it's yours to
have. And like here's
Leah | SxR Host:some ways of being discerning and knowing when it's safe to turn that
light up. And knowing
Leah | SxR Host:when and how to maybe shift that light to a lower frequency so that if you're ever in a dangerous situation, you know how to kind of go, you know, Jedi, you know, like go invisible so that you're not
attracting the wrong
Leah | SxR Host:kind of energy, but that you can light up amidst the right energy. And I mean, and that's, I mean, most adults don't even know how to do that. Yeah. So it's no wonder. I
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:was just going
to say like for young
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:girls to learn how to wield their
sexual power as they're coming into it as it's becoming
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:a part of them, is a completely different experience than what I recently had, which is like, oh wow. All this sexual power is now inside
of me, and and I'm still
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:learning how to adjust and turn the dial down in certain situations and turn it up in situations. And, you know, triggering
other women when I don't
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:turn it down
properly. And it's, it is that place
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:of
discernment, which is in Chinese
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:medicine, the discernment factor lives in the gut. So
it's like this small
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:intestine, you know, like, is
it okay? Is it pure?
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Is it impure? Is it going to be nourishing to like really own and hold and step in that full goddess femininity in this situation? Or is it going to be triggering people who don't quite, haven't quite stepped into that yet? Or is it going to be attracting the wrong
energy from people I don't want to attract that
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:from. So
there's really you know, it's a steeper
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:learning curve when you're older.
Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:part of our maturing process. Yeah. To carry our body and the energy that we carry and the attractiveness that we really are in a
way that is safe and
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:yet alluring. I don't, yeah. But the words are, but I know that being a woman and carrying myself out into the world, especially here in, in Hispanic world, where the men are men Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so are a lot of the women. Gorgeous, gorgeous. Drop dead gorgeous.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:It's a sexy country. Yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Very true. Yeah. And I am older enough that I'm not a part of the choosing. You know, I'm settled in my marriage. And I'm very happy in my life and it's great to watch it all from this view at the, from the mountain top. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:along these same lines, when you look back on your kind of coming of age, what do you wish you would've
known then? If the Caroline
Leah | SxR Host:today could give the Caroline who was coming of age advice, what would you say to her?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:The kind of teachings that we are, if this was
available if women like
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:you and me were available to learn something before our wedding nights or before we had sex for the first time. All I had was a mother's friend telling me to douche with this powder so that I wouldn't smell. And of course it wouldn't go in me because I was so douched out from this powder douche bag thing that my mothers friend told me to use. And no wonder
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:it was all dry. I'm like, what? Oh, God meant perfumy. Oh God.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:So that was how I came of age. Wow. Oh my goodness. No education whatsoever and education is the thing that sets
us free. Yeah. Truly
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:understanding.
Yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Truly, really
knowing. And so I love
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:what you two are doing. I love what I've done and I love what I'm still going to do till the day I check out. I am going to be offering this information out to as many people as I can. Yeah. That's awesome. Because every, there's still so many people that don't know yet. Yeah. About sacred sexuality, the sacredness of your bodies and how to proceed with each other. So with, we really are
needed still. Any advice
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:that you
would give to moms with
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:teenage boys? Because that seems to be an
interesting dynamic.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:You know, it's like they used to just cuddle up with
their mom and then at
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:some point they're like, oh, I don't, I can't cuddle, you got boobs, this is weird, I don't know what to do with myself. You know it gets so awkward. And I have a lot of mother clients with teen boys and there's some great books out now, there's some really good, education and things that I'll pass along to them I really
actually love to give them
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:the Male Brain by Louann Brizendine, phenomenal book. And they're like, oh my God, I get it now. I understand what they're going through as they go through puberty and step into their manhood. But any advice that you would have for them?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well, I have known a few moms with teenage boys and the ones that have really succeeded were the ones that were totally open with those boys about desiring women, honoring women, loving women. because they're all going to be moms. Just like you'd want your mom to be respected by men and boys, you need to carry that flag too. And you need to go out there in the world of girls and women and honor the goddess in us. Even though there's somewhere down there in your pants that wants to just fuck us. Yeah. It, you got to, you got to learn to control that. You got to learn to be mature with that and be the kind of guy that women want to be friends with because they feel safe. Yeah. Right.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah.
You know, you've made such a impression
Leah | SxR Host:in this world regarding sexual
healing and so many of
Leah | SxR Host:us have had some form of sexual trauma. Yeah. Right. Whether we were molested at a young age or there was date rape, or there was something that just left us feeling broken, and especially sexually due to some sort of traumatic event. And I know you've had your own journey with sexual trauma. What do you think is a good, like first couple of steps if someone's listening to this and they know that they had something traumatic happen to them sexually that's been shutting them down for a long time
and they're and they're
Leah | SxR Host:scared and they don't know where to go. Right. What would be some good first steps they
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:could engage? Well, getting in touch with any of us who are in
the field of seeing clients
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:or referring them to someone who does see clients and who they can do Zoom calls with if it's not in person. Yeah. Uh, because in so many, all the cities we've been teaching in all these years, Leah, there are Tantra educators and there are people doing private
work and you really want to encourage
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:people, I think, to get in the hands
of someone who knows
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:how to do this. Yeah. Who knows how to engage sexual healing so that there isn't more abuse that happens.
Leah | SxR Host:Can you say a little bit about your journey of healing sexual trauma, like how long it took and some of the processes that really helped you? You know, when you have an experience and it's like you went to the experience one way, but you came out of it totally a different way and it kind of changes you forever. Metamorphosis. Yeah. I'm kind of wondering, like I'm, I know people are curious, like, how long should I expect to be working on this and what does it feel like?
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:You know, it's such a common question, especially when the trauma came from, age two from a father or something, it's been ingrained for so, so long.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. I
was recently asked this
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:question by a man who does, who writes blogs for the conversations that I make. And he said, do you still feel like you are having to manage the trauma? And the trauma was as a kid, my dad, with erections and in
my mouth. And so, as
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a teenager and growing into my early years sexually, I was terrified of the smell of a man or the taste of a man. I couldn't go there and I didn't know why. because my girlfriend said it was so great,
you know? The men all
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:wanted that. And I was like, I'm going to throw up if I have to do this. But where did that come from? Yeah. You
didn't know. So it was
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:in hypnotherapy that I actually began to see the pictures of what it was that had happened and believe it, that this really did happen with
my dad. And even though
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I loved him, I couldn't
stand him. And it to this day I was able to honestly
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:say to the man writing the blog that I still notice on my way to pleasure my man. I still notice that crack in the mirror, the purity of my innocence that was there at eight years old or five years old, or three years old when something was wrong with doing this. And so the smells, the action has a memory, has a recall. So I would say that I've never 100% gotten over it. But I've So 99 gotten over it that I know how to go beyond the reaction. Yeah. It's just the reaction of the little kid that still lives in here. Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:It gives me the chills when you talk about that, because I think that it's so
powerful to heal,
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:like all the healing work that you've done, all the years of healing that you've done to get to that place where it's like,
it is just a crack right.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:And I'm going to move and you can move through it like in a single breath. I'm imagining, like you can just glide right through it and get to the pleasure and the
enjoyment of pleasuring
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:your partner.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I used to have moments with Charles when he'd say, you're going to get over this and you're not going to have to deal with it again. And I'd say I wouldn't tell that to people because they might always have
to manage that moment.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Right. Yeah. Right. Of a
childhood thing. That was,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:you know, the ghosts under
the bed or the, the look
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:of a hard on the colors, the big thing to a little kid.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah, I would call that fully healed though. where you're at, what you're talking about. I would call that fully healed.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:well, I feel like I am because I can measure myself so well and I can see yeah, what I'm
doing and I can find
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:the dialogue in
myself. Yeah. We exactly. And we all come
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:from
some kind of original
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:wound, original trauma, whether it is a
sexual trauma or just a
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:birth. We don't get our trauma right. Or even we just didn't get, our diaper changed and we laid in our crib crying for too long and that was experienced as a trauma, you know, and we have experience. And so that, that kind of triggered state of how do I get through this trauma? How do I protect myself through this moment when I'm a kid? That comes up for all of us. And it's, you know, as
Leah and I have studied
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:and I wonder, Caroline, have you studied this the Reichean pattern type stuff?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Reichean breath work breath, I had studied the reiki.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Okay. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, it's this, you know, it's this original wound pattern stuff and it shows up anytime we feel unsafe or anytime we're heading towards
something where it was unsafe
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:at one point. And so I think if you can learn to live outside of that triggered state, learn to live with
presence. I think that's
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:probably what you've mastered so well, Caroline, is
presence. To be so present
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:with what's going on, inside of you and what's going on inside of the other person, that you can sail right through it. And that's most likely why everyone feels so safe with you to just be like, yeah, let's go right into the
sacred spot. Let's do this.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Wonderful insight. Wonderful
insight. I, I feel
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:good
about well, how I've managed
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:this and I was given an and invited by my beloved Charles during our marriage to, to test out my healing with lots of different men, or at least several, many, maybe not
lots, but love with
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:him, go love him up and make him, you know, see how comfortable you are with the
taste of him. And I, oh,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:I really don't want to, I really don't
want to, only with
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:you. But I would do it and I would kind of just
push myself to realize
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:that this was his wand of God and it wasn't just his cock. And, you know, I would just really re reprogram myself constantly in practice.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Now, I like how you're bringing the language forward. Was that a big part for you? The, you know, having a sort of a different language around the lingam or the, rather than the penis or the cock or the yoni rather than the pussy or the vagina? Yeah. Changed everything? Changed everything.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:And this woman that recently has come to me said, when I heard you say the word yoni for the first time in 40 years, I realized, oh, maybe I have something that's better than a pussy. And I, okay. I get, I just get, got hair raising on my skin because it were, it was those words that took me out of the trauma of around sex to the beauty of it all. Yeah. So the language is essential.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. Yeah. You know, Leah and I are such big proponents of the spiritual aspect of sexuality and the higher vibration that can come through the healing and the pleasure and,
you know, the massive
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:extended orgasms. And it is
interesting to be sort of in
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:this field today where there's a lot of sex education and they're like, let's leave the spiritual out. Like, let, we just let give us the facts. Like what, how does this work physiologically? We do get asked that quite a bit. Yeah. And it's just interesting, know, I think maybe religion has, you know, such stigma and
they don't want to like the
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:religion and the spirituality to be enmeshed together. But I mean, it's a little bit hard to, for I think for both of us, for all of us here to untangle those, to talk about sexuality without talking about the spiritual component of it.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well, some people are very spiritual without even using
that word. Yeah. Right.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:And I mean, I happen to be married to him and would easily say he's an atheist, and doesn't believe in God. And I go how could I possibly have chosen someone who would ever say that? I live with God, you know, 24 7. Yeah. And yet he is such a spiritual being and his countenance and his devotion and his good kind that I, I really got to go beyond my judgments about what is a spiritual person and do they have to yoga and have a flexible spine and Right. Blah, blah, blah. Study Tantra and be my sexual healer. No, they don't.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah, I really think that's true. You know, Matt
is similar in many respects,
Leah | SxR Host:but he has this insatiable curiosity and he's willing to question his own thoughts. And he puts himself in front of
people that he wouldn't
Leah | SxR Host:normally agree with. And he allows himself to be influenced by the opinions of others. And I just have so much admiration for how he kind of holds all
of that. And his now
Leah | SxR Host:kind of spiritual perspective, though he wouldn't describe it that way, is non-duality. You know, how are we separating ourselves from
each other? And. And when
Leah | SxR Host:we don't do that, the truth that arises is so much clearer to see. And it's been such a huge gift to have his sort of analytical brainiac way of sort of
describing what he notices
Leah | SxR Host:in the world, because I'm such a feeling person and I'm always experiencing it as this like realm of
feeling. And yeah, I think,
Leah | SxR Host:there's something else, there's something really attractive, I think, that we feel compelled to explore when someone isn't us. You know, like if we wanted to marry ourselves, we probably wouldn't enjoy the marriage all that much. Like we purposely are attracted to people who are different from us, but yet will spend an entire marriage trying to change them to be just like us. We do that. But I think it's such a hilarious booga booga, you know, joke on humanity.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Oh, it's so true. It's so true. I think opposites attract thing really applies here. Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Yeah. How long have you been with Will, is it?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:23 years. Yeah, 23. My magic number. Awesome. And really compatible years. And now we spend so much time together because we're not going to an office somewhere. Right. Unless I, yeah, unless I go work with someone in the hotel. But he's home all the time and that took a lot to get used to.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:I bet. Yeah. And does he do daka work? Does he do this kind of work or something totally
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:different at all? Not at all. We have conversations about non-ejaculating, he says, ah, there's no scientific evidence. There's no big deal.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:In fact,
sometimes holding for
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:too
long, I think can inhibit
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:the prostate and fill the prostate. So then like erections are not quite as hard.
Leah | SxR Host:So well, and that, and they become full of themselves and after a while, like, Jesus Christ, you're making me crazy. Would you ejaculate already becausee I'm about to go bonkers.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Well, and there's a certain level of
satisfaction too as the giver. Right? When that
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:happens.
Leah | SxR Host:So, yeah. So maybe you could say a little bit about what you see and love about men. Because I
think we're we've recently had an era where
Leah | SxR Host:we needed to change so much that was
happening in the power
Leah | SxR Host:dynamic between men and women, especially in the
workplace and how that
Leah | SxR Host:power
differential has taken its
Leah | SxR Host:toll on the feminine. And now as we kind of, as the pendulum sort of swings back to the middle, you know, I think there's a lot of men that have felt
sort of, attacked and
Leah | SxR Host:have felt a lot of confusing things about what it means to be a man and how to hold all
of this. And I notice in me that I have a sort
Leah | SxR Host:of a fierce
protectiveness to want to help men
Leah | SxR Host:see the greatness in themselves and to have that reflected back to them. And to help women realize
that if they want to experience
Leah | SxR Host:the best in men, they have to look for the best in men. And I'm wondering what you would have to say in terms of reflecting the best of men.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. Reflecting the best in them is it's so easy to be critical. It's so natural, we are critical of ourselves and we can be critical of them, but to just change the channel and go up to him in a surprise way. Like I have, I told you lately how amazing you are about this, that, or the other
thing. And how you make
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:me feel so safe and how you contribute to our life and compliments. I still am with a man that will almost get a little shy and red faced and go, really? You think? You think so? You know, and it's so precious when they soften into that she's loving me. She's letting me know how much she appreciates me and I forget
to do it. Because I'm
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a critical, I have a critical woman
in me and and I'm very organized
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:woman.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:And don't put this there. Put that here and don't. I think we all have learned that from our moms lot of the time.
Right, right. God, it's amazing. But when I find
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:that I can compliment him for things that he knows I do really well and he probably doesn't. And when I see, oh, I saw you organize your socks, my God, you put the colors together, that is amazing. Yeah. He'll just smile from ear to ear. And anything that is complimentary, they probably all had a critical mom at some point who was right, picking on them or something. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:praise and acknowledgement goes such a long way. And also just like taking care of their heart. We had an interview the other day with someone they was, and he was pretty adamant. He was like, women are not taking care of men's hearts. And I
was like, let me think
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:back to all the times when maybe I haven't been quite as much as I could have been. Right. Thinking that I was, but okay. Yeah. Could have done more, could have been deeper with that. And so then really stepped into that just right away the next day. Let me just see what it feels like to take care of this man's heart and that man's heart and this man's heart. And they just melt. I mean, all of'em.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:They're like,
oh. Yeah. And isn't
Leah | SxR Host:it interesting because I notice like I'm pretty good with the words piece. I do words well and it's also the thing that I like, right? So I respond well to like affirmation and words and all that stuff. And my husband doesn't. So the words don't land with him, which is challenging. because here I am thinking I'm putting all this effort and I'm, you know, and you fill in the bank account, right? And so then it's like, I think it's just going right through. It's right. I'm like, but I do, what do you mean? You know, I really try
hard and yeah and to come
Leah | SxR Host:to realize that I really do have to build some different skill sets in order for that to get in. So for him it's quality time and I'm like, I got ADHD, I am not great at like sitting still and doing the quality time, but man, when I am able to stretch
into that, what comes
Leah | SxR Host:back home is pretty profound, you know? And so learning to, to listen to the body that you're with and trying to sort out what it is that really helps them get the nourishment of that. And then to like, not give up. I
mean it's it's this
Leah | SxR Host:relationship thing is needs tending to, and I think for some women it's like, okay, well I got the guy. Check. What's next on my life list to achieve? And yeah, that's, now
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:it's a precious little, it's a seed that has
tendrils and you got to water it
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:and watch it grow and give it fertilizer and make sure it's happy and prune it. And the whole time, it's like a plant.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:relationship is the greatest teacher. I look back over my life and I've never spent time being single. I've always chosen the next relationship because they're at my next teacher.
Leah | SxR Host:Wow. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:What would you say to people who are in a relationship, let's say they've been in it for 20 years, they've got three
kids. They are really finding
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:out at this point in their life that they're not a great match. they got together in their early twenties Yeah. And that the sex has never been there. And actually now that I think about it, I've never really been attracted to my husband in that way. I've never felt a lot of passion
with him. And now I
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:don't know what to do. I feel stuck. So what would you say to those couples?
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Well,
you know, I think what
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Charles and I did was we really pulled off of friendship. Yeah. If there is really a better avenue for you to be on with other partners or someone else, do it, but don't let go of the love that is there and the friendship that is there that you've lived with for 20 years. Yeah. Respect and honor that person and want for them a hot sexual relationship and the freedom to have
that and and be best friends. And that carve
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:out, because Charles really showed me the way, because we, during separation and property separation and all that, you really start to not like each other very much. Right. Oh my God. You mean you're going to get the house. What do you mean you're going to get half of the house? I thought it was my house. I mean, you know, it's all mine. And the business and all the co-owned stuff. So what we did was we really carved out the loving friendship.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah. I think that actually, that's another thing that I would like highlight about who the two of you are is this, you know, a lot of people call it conscious uncoupling. When I think of it from you and Charles's perspective, it's like you guys really practice happily ever after. Even after something like divorce. Yes. And you know, when you look at all the pain and hatred and the money that goes to the lawyers that people go through. Oh. You know, I think that friendship, that real piece that you just highlighted, like that friendship is actually the highest form of relationship. And if you can remember to tend to that, you'll treat each other with more respect and kindness, forgiveness, generosity than if they're only your spouse.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yep. And the same practices that we did when we were in marriage, you know, the Tantric practices of greeting each other at the door and the little massages and foot rubs and all the things that nourished the relationship. We kept all that going. And we would travel together and share a bed and share a bathroom. Not being sexual. But we'd give each other back rubs and
foot rubs and talk great
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:talks and cuddles and nourishing each other. Yeah. In friendship. Even though we knew we weren't going to be tantrically sexual anymore. And that just was so beautiful to, to be able to have that.
Leah | SxR Host:Were the other relationships that you were having at the time, did they struggle with that or were they comfortable
with that? Will was fine
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:with me being anywhere and doing anything with Charles except being sexual. Yeah. Because he knew that Charles was sexual with other women and it put him
at risk. Sure. And
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:so I said, I hear you. I get that. I really even thought of protecting
myself. Yeah. Yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:So I'm going to give you that and you will not have to be subjected to the other women that Charles is with, because I won't be sexual with him
anymore. Yeah. And
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:it's a hard one for Charles because you know women don't say no to him. And so I, but I really went to this deeper place of respect for this nice good man that had come into my life. Yeah. And he, his health is
number one. Yeah, yeah.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:And he wants to live a long, healthy life, and
he doesn't want to pick up something
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:that some gal, you know. Yeah. That I get that. I'm still making love with Charles who has other
lovers,. And I just, it
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:landed. Yeah. Like, no wonder there's such a sacredness about and I don't even like the word monogamy. We never used it. We never offered it. Yeah. But that's what we've done. We just haven't called it that. I've always said to him, if you need to be with other women, you go right ahead, but know that there will be chaos.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:Right, right, right. No, thank you. I'll just Totally, I got all, everything I need right here.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:That's all. I get it. You're
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:enough for me. And,
you know, it's with
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:the work that you do, Caroline, it's monogamish, I mean, not to put labels on it, but there's a, it's a monogamish thing going on, right? Because you are supporting other women in their sexual healing.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:That's a good one. I hadn't heard that before. But
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:that's sort of how I level these
level. The, I like to
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:put an idea around it so that we kind of all are on the same page. This is what this is and this is what that is. And I feel like Monogamish works well for people in our industry.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. Okay.
Monogamy is no penetration
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:with someone else. Monogamy.
Leah | SxR Host:I think monogamy even goes beyond no penetration. I think it's like no sexual contact with somebody else.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:And then monogamish is like, maybe we bring someone in once in a while together, or maybe we have a little bit of permission. Like
you go do your work,
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:work with couples, work with men,
whatever you do. And then non-monogamy
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:is like, you know, I have other lovers, but I'm not opening my heart with anyone else. And then polyamory is like, oh, I'm opening my heart with other people. I'm having multiple intimate relationships with people.
Leah | SxR Host:Yeah. It's so interesting. Right. It's like trying to, and what I notice is that the only reason why I might feel compelled to even create identifications is simply to explain to people who have no framework. Yeah. For the work that's done, now, because I consider myself totally monogamous, like through and through. I feel like a monogamous person with my husband, and yet there's a part of my work that has a container that it has space for receiving, helping, supporting, and touching someone's sexuality and sensuality in the spirit of their health and wellbeing. But someone on the outside, you know, sometimes I refer to them as the muggles would be like,
what? Like that's not
Leah | SxR Host:monogamous. Yeah. Thanks. Don't, that's not monogamous. I'm like, I can see how you would see that. Right, right. And so what I've been, what's been such a relief is to have the freedom to create a container that allows my being to feel safe and my relationship, and also allows my partner to feel totally trustworthy of the work that's being generated in the sexual arts because it's so desperately needed.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:It's so needed. Yeah. It's so powerful when those breakthroughs happen.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Absolutely. You
guys, and I so honor
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:that you've taken this all to your next level of education for the people of this world. Yeah. You know,
Leah | SxR Host:reimagining a new world where sexuality can be held in a pleasure forward, more shame free space. Yeah. That's our dream.
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:That's a really important work. That is the work of the goddess herself. Yeah. And so here we go. Cause I'm, we go here I am at 80 starting it all over again isn't amazing. All notes. That's
amazing. Yeah. So that someone
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:else can teach it with me and she's got the youthful, you know, young kind of marriage and her guy is just totally digging it and loves all this tantra stuff. And so it's a fresh approach as well.
Leah | SxR Host:So I noticed like in wrapping up, you've got a gift for our audience. I
understand that is a
Leah | SxR Host:discovery call with you. Can you say a little
bit about what that is? Yeah. Well,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:a discovery call is really a scheduled Zoom call and I love connecting with people. I love face-to-face. I love wrapping my arms around the computer and getting to even be embraced on a zoom call. So it gives often people a chance to
inquire of me. Some of the,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:some of their questions and some of
their. Beliefs and
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:questions and what would do I think about this or
that. And just use
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:me for 20 or 30 minutes. I never look at the clock. Because I enjoy them so much. Yeah. Yeah. And we just have to schedule a via email is all
and great. We'll make sure that, we'll
Leah | SxR Host:make that email available and you can find Caroline on her website, divine-feminine.com. And thank you so much for being a part of us. Caroline. What a
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:pleasure. Oh my God. So nice to meet you and connect with you. Oh,
Caroline | SxR Sexpert:Willow I feel the same. Yeah.
Leah | SxR Host:Please give my love to Will and hail to the queen. Hail queen.
Dr. Willow | SxR Host:The queen of Tantra. The Goddess Tantra. Yeah. She herself is here. Yeah. Thank
Leah | SxR Host:so much love, love, love.
Announcer:Now, our favorite part, the dish.
Leah:Oh, Caroline Muir, it's your dish hour! Dish a dee doo dah! So, Caroline was one of Leah's very first Tantra teachers. I felt like I was in a matriarchal lineage of Tantra It was so sweet. It'd been a while since I'd seen her, actually. Yeah, she looks amazing. God, is it possible it was Charles wedding? Did Christy was the last time I saw her? Maybe, because she moved to Panama. I wonder if she'd already lived in Panama. Anyways, she's awesome. She's so amazing. She's such a huge player in my journey. And, um, and it's just so fun, you know? People started calling her, um, Tantra Goddess Grandmama. Which I thought was very charming. I love that. Yeah, she's just got a wealth of wisdom and so much experience. She's primarily working with women and couples right now and helping women find their way to their Shakti, like helping them really ignite that sexual energy within. Uh, if you haven't read her book yet, Tantra Goddess, it is a fun, fun memoir of a book. You'll read it in like three days. It's so fun to read. And, um, yeah, what else? It was just a, uh, Fun time to sit with Caroline as she was soaking in Panama. We decided we're gonna go to Panama. Yeah, we're definitely going to Panama. Leah already has her Panamanian hat on. That's right! I'm ready, baby! Um, you know, I think what I don't know if other people experience this. I know, and it sounds like you might have experienced this too. I always experience this with her. There's something about, like There's a richness about, I feel like who she is and her experience and like her essence and her soul that it makes so much sense why women in particular flock to her. Yeah, there's a safety. To have her healing hands on their body and to sort of to be ushered into an initiation. I think her work in particular blew my mind at the potential and I have to say Charles does deserve a little bit of credit in this department because he pushed her to work with women. And he said, your friends and your sisters need this. There is a place that you can reach using Sacred Spot Massage as a modality in the name of healing that I can never reach. And, and, you know, If I were to believe what Charles says, it would be, yeah, that there was some reluctance on her part. And when you think about it, I mean, this was all like in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. And, um, different time, different generation. Yeah. Cause he started this work in 78. And so, and then I think they really took it forward out of his yoga school when he hung up his yoga teacher hat and went into the more the sexuality space I want to say in the mid 80s with Caroline and that's when the success. Because there's something about a couple Yeah, bringing this work to other people. They were a power couple. Yeah Decades. The Wall Street Journal called them the the Ken and Barbie of the New Age world Yeah, isn't that hilarious? And can you just imagine them in the early 90s? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I mean, some of the videos that you have on there are hilarious. They're so fun. I think you can find them on YouTube, right? Yeah, I mean, I think one of them Charles was giving away as a part of his free gift. Oh, that's right. So you'll get it on the summit. Yeah, and um, and you just gotta love the haircuts. I mean, mullets are coming back, people. So maybe it won't look so, uh, such a throwback after all. But, you know, it's very sort of got all the new age music and the things. And it's pretty funny. And adorable, but the content's timeless, you know, there's a, there, it's still relevant today. And I think that's really amazing. But back to Caroline and just sort of in her body, there's just, there's always been this feeling for me of like an embodied teaching. And although, you know, I spent most of my time learning from Charles, I did a lot of her other programs when it was just her and something gets transmitted when you work with her.
Willow:And you get some good mirror neuron inside of your own body, just by being around somebody who has done such deep sexual healing in the interview. You're, you're, you probably have heard her talk about that nuanced, little shift that she has to go through in order to do fellatio on somebody. Right. Ah, yeah, yeah, that's right. that healing that is. such a deep level inside herself that there's still that little trigger that, she just glides right over it in a single breath and I think thats really the goal or or that really the invitation I think, for those that have. have been through sexual abuse, especially at a very, very young age, because that is going to be some part of your imprint, but it doesn't mean that you can't heal to a point where you shift past it quickly. And you know, when you say that, it makes me really realize that I think that's what lended their work credibility for me. Because I didn't know when I went to my first weekend seminar that I was going to stumble into the depth of sexual healing. I thought I was just going to learn about sex and God. Right. And so to, I think there was something about Caroline's story that gave my body permission and credibility that if she could do it, I could do it. Yeah. And there's something about having someone hold space for you who's already walked that road that gives you confidence and bravery to walk that road too if, unfortunately, that's the road you've been given. Right. So, um, that's really been true for me. Yeah. It's a great opportunity to change the story, um, that. You grew up with. Yeah. And if you read the book, you'll hear the story of how she got her nickname Queenie. So with that, I'm going to close this dish with saying, long live the Queen. Long live the Queen.
Announcer:Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.