Amy Rowan: Why Good Couples Stop Having Sex and How to Fix It | #192

Is Your Sex Life on the Back Burner? Here's Why Waiting for the "Right Time" is Quietly Killing Your Desire. You are not too tired, too busy, or too far gone. You are just missing a few things nobody ever taught you. Certified clinical sexologist Amy Rowan has been married 21 years, raised three teenagers through a serious family health crisis, and survived breast cancer, and her sex life is thriving. In this episode she delivers five practical shifts to stop waiting for the perfect moment and start showing up for the intimacy you and your partner both deserve.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• The "calm down" myth is costing you. There will always be another season of chaos. It is infinitely easier to keep desire at a low simmer than to relight a flame gone completely cold.
  
  
• Pleasure is a stress antidote. Intimacy triggers oxytocin, endorphins, and serotonin, the body's natural counterweights to cortisol. Connection is a life raft, not a luxury.
  
  
• Your choices are building resentment, or they're not. When women skip the time their body actually needs to become aroused (20 to 40 minutes for most), resentment quietly accumulates. Recognizing you have a choice is the first step to making a different one.
  
  
• Spontaneous desire is a myth. Early relationship sex was never actually spontaneous. You planned it, built anticipation, and showed up ready. Long-term intimacy works the same way. Scheduling signals: you matter to me.
  
  
• Responsive desire is normal. Most women do not feel desire before arousal begins. Erotic simmering, a lingering kiss, a flirty text, a touch with zero agenda, keeps the runway long enough for desire to catch up.
  
  

LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND ON THE WEBSITE: https://www.sexreimagined.com/blog/how-to-keep-desire-alive-in-a-long-term-relationship 

The Sacred Spot Weekend | July 17-19, 2026 in NYC | Join Leah & Guy Shahar to learn the Tantric Sacred Spot Ritual Sequence! Click Here to Register. 

Erotic Polarity Online Masterclass - Join us July 29th for a live masterclass on zoom. Starts at 4pm Pacific / 7pm Eastern. Register for $33 HERE (free limited replay window available)

AWAKEN AROUSAL OIL LUBRICANT | Reach new levels of intimacy with our arousal oil, formulated for the female body. Once applied, this topical oil works with your body to enhance sensation and "o's," helping you reach states of euphoric pleasure.

Transcript

Desire in Long Term Love

Willow 0:04

If you want more, turn on more closeness and less pretending everything is fine in the bedroom than listening because Amy Rowan shares what long-term couples need to know to keep desire alive, to deepen trust, and to create a sex life that feels worth showing up for. I'm Dr. Willow Brown here with the one and only Leah Piper. We are Sex Reimagined and we're so excited for you to learn from the one and only Amy Rowen.

Leah 0:37

What a delight. I think she's so bright and smart. I absolutely loved her class. We're so excited to give it to you. Um, this is more classroom style versus interview style. Curious how you like this style of podcasting. So please let us know. Listen to the very end. And without further ado friends, please tune in, turn on, and fall in love with our friend Amy Rowan.

Speaker 0:59

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Meet Amy Rowan

Amy Rowan 1:08

hello everybody. My name is Amy Rowan and I am a certified clinical sexologist, a certified sex coach, and a certified sexual health educator and the founder of Suburban Intimacy. Um, I've been married for over 21 years to my wonderful husband James, and we are raising three sons, currently 12, 14, and 17. So I've got two out of three teenagers right now, and next year I'll have three. And I'm also a breast cancer survivor. Um, you know, the first thing that I wanna do is just send a huge thank you to Dr. Willow and Leah for inviting me to be a part of your Power of Pleasure Summit. and I'm grateful to be a part of it. I also really wanna take a moment to acknowledge every single person who's listening right now, because the fact that you are here, you're carving out some time of your life to listen and learn. It tells me that you're smart and you're dedicated, and you're deeply committed to the health of your intimacy, to the health of your relationship if you're N one. And that is an absolutely beautiful thing, and you are obviously in the right place for it because if we're gonna talk about the power of pleasure, we have to reimagine how pleasure and intimacy fits into a long-term relationship, especially when life gets chaotic.

The Red Zone of Mental Chaos

Amy Rowan 2:25

Um, and I know this landscape of a long-term partnership. I absolutely remember the exhaustion of the early years when my children were small. Um, my husband James and I, we would call it project prevent siblings. Uh, you know that phase, it's when you're so tired that the mere thought of facts feels like a tax audit. But now we are in the thick of parenting teens. And let me tell you, you hear about parenting teens, but no one can fully prepare you for the intensity of what this looks like. You know, when your kids are small, the problems are, are smaller and easier to fix it, diapers and tantrums, and you're tired, you're exhausted. But small kids, small problems. With teens, the problems become more complex. And for us, this means we have a house full of night owls dealing with technology struggles, big emotions, and living under the constant microscope and criticism of all of these people who judge every single movie that we make. And they cannot even vote or drive yet. So, but on top of that, there is also the very heavy, invisible weight of the mental load. Um, sociologists call this cognitive labor and it's the planning, the organizing, the worrying that's required to run a family. And as women, we often function as the captain of the ship. We're tracking all the schedules, the emotional wellbeing of the kids, the grocery lists and the doctor's appointments. And because of this load, exhaustion is the norm. My husband James, I was talking to him about doing the summit and I was asking him how he kind of keeps track of all this. He said, I didn't even know this. He has a brilliant way. He envisions a video game life bar, like floating above my head, like green, yellow, red zones. And he knows that if my bar hits red, I'm in the danger zone. I can't function. I get grouchy, I get snappy. I can't do what I need to do, and I certainly can't connect or make any time for intimacy in our relationship. So his primary goal is to ensure that I never hit the red. And so he watches that bar. When he sees me in yellow, he knows that he doesn't have to really kill himself to get me back to green immediately. He'll take that time to recharge himself. But when he sees me slipping into the orange, he has the energy reserves to step in hand with load and pull me back before I crash. But often because of all of the chaos.

Stop Waiting for Calm

Amy Rowan 4:55

So many couples find themselves living in the red zone, and the most common thing that I hear women say is, well, you know, we're not having a lot of sex right now. We'll get back to it when things calm down. When this phase is over, when the kids graduate, when we're done with tournament season, when you know there's always, when we're done with X, y, z, that's when we will have more time for intimacy. But I have a gentle but kind of hard truth for you. This future, when things calm down time, it's a myth. It doesn't exist. There is always going to be something. And here is the danger in waiting. If you neglect sex for months or years waiting for that perfect moment, it's going to be that much harder to get back to it. It is infinitely harder to relight a flame that's gone completely cold than it is to keep it at a low simmer. And so we have to make different choices and learn how to prioritize connection and intimacy inside the mess of what's going on in our lives

Intimacy for Crisis Relief

Amy Rowan 6:02

So I wanna share a deeply personal story that will address the feeling that we are too tired, too depleted for sex. Not long ago, our family went through what was the hardest season of our lives, and that included when I had breast cancer. Um, our son had a serious mental health crisis, and it involved hospital stays, residential care, and six months of living in absolute survival mode. I was on high alert 24 7. I was constantly checking on him. I was dealing with major blowups. I was tracking him down when he ran away and trying desperately to keep him safe and, and honestly at that point, keep him alive. And it was crushing. It was absolutely crushing time, but thankfully I was not doing it alone. And while I did the very heavy, heavy, emotional work of supporting our son, James handled the heavy work of supporting me, and he quietly stepped in and he kept everything else running. He handled the meals, he managed the logistics for our other two children, and he picked up the slack in every way possible. He understood the concept of taking care of the caretaker, and by carrying that load, he created a sense of safety for me, which allowed me to provide safety for our son. And crucially, it also helps to prevent resentment from building up between us. Because in that type of darkness, the natural inclination for most couples is to put sex on the back burner. And that's a valid choice. But something very unexpected that we discovered during that really difficult time was that intimacy wasn't a drain on our batteries. It actually was the thing that helped us both recharge. And I remember one specific night, um, I had just spent hours tracking down our son after he ran away and I finally got him stable. I finally got him home. I finally felt that I could leave him alone in his room and that he would be okay for the night. And it was about 4:00 AM, I crawled back into bed. James was home because again, he was managing everything for the other kids. Life was continuing in the midst of all of this madness. Um, and I was, I was, I was completely empty. I had nothing. I had no words, I had no tears. I just remember feeling like this empty shell of hopelessness and exhaustion. And I crawled in bed and James reached for me and he held me. And at first, at first it was just a hug. At first he was just giving me comfort. And then he just started kissing my face. And then somehow, and I don't even know how, but it just started to turn into more. And we started to reach for each other and the only expression of love that we had at that time. And he knew that if he could find a way to turn off my brain, even for that short period of time, it would be a huge relief to my very deeply overwhelmed body. And of course, in that moment, there was no desire, there was no horniness, there was none of that. It was really just about regulation and loving each other through some really difficult things. Because for months, my body had been flooded with cortisol, which is the stress hormone. I was vibrating with it. But intimacy triggers the release of oxytocin and endorphins and serotonin. And they're not just the feelgood chemicals, they are the natural biological ancitdotes to cortisol. And we actually had another moment during that crisis that illustrates this perfectly. We had just checked our son into a mental health facility, and I had just gotten home. And I remember just sitting on the couch next to my husband. It was the middle of the day. It was like a random weekday. Just silence, like we didn't even know what to say. Just feeling scared and hopeless. And I looked over at my husband and he had an erection and I, which which isn't, it's not normal for him to just have an erection in the middle of the day. I'm certainly not in the middle of something like this. And so it seemed very strange to me, honestly. But I looked at him and I just said, do you want me to help you out with that? And he laughed, and he just, his eyes got big and he was like, I mean, I didn't even know that I needed that, but clearly that's what my body is demanding in this moment. So, so yes, if, if you're willing, then sure. And so upstairs we went, and I did, and I realized that for us in this, this was stress relief. It was this life raft that we were building together. And, you know, so the, the insight here is that pleasure doesn't drain capacity. It actually creates it, it can pull your stress out and that will open up more space for you afterwards.

Are Your Choices Creating Resentment?

Amy Rowan 11:03

But there's a few important things that I really wanna call out here, um, within this story, because I want you to notice that I said pleasure, not sex, not intercourse, and not even just orgasms. Pleasure produce, pleasure reduces stress. And this is where many women get caught up. It's the choices that they make during this time and in their daily lives, often with the best of intentions. And they slowly, these choices that they make, slowly lead them into the rut of not wanting to have sex at all. So I wanna take a look at the anatomy of these choices. You know, night after night, a woman knows that her partner wants to have sex. And, and she agrees even if she doesn't really want to, okay, this is a choice that she's making. And because she just wants to get it over with, she doesn't allow her body the proper time to get fully aroused, which is 20 to 40 minutes for most women. Um, and this is also a choice that she's making. And after a few minutes of foreplay, she decides, eh, it's not gonna happen for me tonight. She says, go ahead, honey, you get yours, you enjoy yourself. Or even worse, she fakes an orgasm to make the experience finish faster. These are all choices that she's making. And then she rolls over, she goes to bed. Maybe she feels okay in that moment, but over time, the resentment is going to build. Because if a woman is not enjoying the sex that she's having, if she's not getting any pleasure out of it, why would she want to have any more of it? Why would she show up? Why would she want to be there? And this is the critical role of pleasure and the choices that we make that enable pleasure or that prevent it. And so we have to stop choosing, getting it over with, and we have to start choosing authentic connection. So if these choices that we're making lead to resentment, how do we make different choices? Well, the first thing is just realizing that you do have a choice in the matter. 'cause a lot of people don't realize that. So once you recognize that you are making choices, you can then choose to make the same choices or you can choose to do something different. Um, but we also don't really have to guess

What Fulfilled Couples Do

Amy Rowan 13:18

on this. Um, the work of Dr. Emily Naski, she, um, said that sexually fulfilled couples exhibit three key characteristics, and I really love this. The number one is they're good friends who trust each other. And this is critical. If you are not connecting outside of the bedroom, it is going to feel incredibly difficult to connect inside. And in my marriage, this relates back to that green, yellow, red bar that I told you that James envisions above my head. Um, and he says that he pays attention to two types of communication that I give him explicit, which are the things that I directly ask for an implicit, which is my mood, my body language, and my stress level. And he knows that when I'm in the yellow or orange, maybe I'm moody, maybe I'm stressed. These are implicit signals. And instead of waiting for me to ask, he proactively mitigates the things that are causing me anxiety. He checks the calendar, he handles the mornings, he prevents the red zone so that I can stay in a place where connection is possible. The second characteristic of sexually fulfilled couples is that they prioritize sex. They recognize that it takes time and effort. And scheduling great sex doesn't just happen. Um, when I joined just before my session, you were talking about setting the stage and creating the scene. And, and that's really important. You can't just stumble into having amazing sex. That's not how it works. And then couples define their own sexual norms. They reject societal expectations. Most of us have been taught a fairly similar script of how sex is supposed to happen. Um, and you follow that script along, you kiss for a little bit, you touch, um, you know, you do this to him, he does this to you. Then you have intercourse. And then once the guy has their orgasm, sex is done. You roll over and go to bed. Right? And that is fine sometimes, but it also can get quite boring. And so when couples can create their own pattern that works with their lives, whether that's changing timing, whether that's exploring new things together, try things in a different order, and goodness gracious, make it fun. I think we forget that sex is supposed to be fun. It becomes this very serious thing. And so bringing in toys, lingerie, or whatever it is that turns you on, giving yourself permission to explore those things will bring the fun back back.

Five Shifts to Better Sex

Amy Rowan 15:45

So knowing all of this research, how do we apply it? I have five easy shifts that I wanna share with you. So the first thing that I wanna address is this big lie, this huge lie that we've been told about sex, which is, I call it the myth of spontaneous sex. We clinging to this idea that great sex should just happen like it did when we were first dating. A huge thing I hear all the time, like when, when we first started, we were so hot. Like how, how do we get back to that? How do we get back to that same level of desire and wanting each other the, the way it was when we first started? And so we think that if we have to plan it, if we have to plan for it, that it's not gonna be romantic, it's not gonna be fun. It's not gonna be hot. But the truth is that that early days sex that you were having, that was not spontaneous. Sex was never spontaneous. So think back, think back to those early days of your relationship. Um, and I'm gonna date myself 'cause this was like pre-cell phones and all of that. But you know, you made a date, you made a date on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you talked about it for that weekend. And then for the next couple of days, you were looking forward to it. You had 48 hours of positive anticipation. You planned your outfit, you shaved your legs. Um, you, you know, were discussing things with your girlfriend on, you know, what you were gonna say and what you were gonna do. And just really, really looking forward to that moment. And so you spent all of the time between when you planned the date, when you actually went on the date, um, getting excited, planning for connection, and you looked forward to it. And so when you finally got together on your date and you had a really wonderful time, 'cause you've been looking forward to it all that time, and then you started ripping each other's clothes off and having, you know, that animalistic spontaneous sex, it wasn't spontaneous at all because you've been building up to that moment all of the days before. So now in this long-term relationship, we are elbow deep in laundry and life. And yes, we still think that planning is unromantic, but I want you to think about this like hosting a dinner. So imagine you have some friends that drop by unannounced, you run through the fridge, throw something together, go through the pantry, and maybe you're able to pull something together. You give them some like leftover nachos or something and you know, if they're your friends, whatever, they don't really care about the nachos, it's fine, it does the job, right? But now I want you to imagine that you are inviting the CEO of your company over for dinner. You don't wanna serve the CEO of your company soggy nachos, right? So you're going to plan, you're gonna set a date, you're gonna buy groceries, you're gonna look up recipes, you're gonna set the table, you're gonna put on music, you're gonna set the entire atmosphere and all of that planning signals to your guests that you're important to me. This experience is important to me and I value this time that I'm having with you. So your partner is the CEO of your life. So why are we serving this person Leftover nachos, right? So when you practice the intentional, yes, you schedule the date, you don't serve the nachos and you go into this with planning.

Context Accelerators and Brakes

Amy Rowan 19:10

The second thing that we need to talk about is context. And this helps explain why planning works. Um, because our brains have, a sexual excitation system, which is our accelerator, and a sexual inhibition system, which is a break. And the accelerator are all the things that turn you on, right? It's a touch, it's a look. It's music. Um, it's getting in a good mood. It's jokes, it's games. It's all of those things that help turn you on. And your brain break notices all of the reasons not to be turned on. And this is stress and kids and um, dirty dishes and all of those things. And with context, if you think about it like being tickled, if your partner tickles you when you're happy and flirty, it's fine. You're like, oh yeah, you laugh, right? But if they reach out and tickle you and you're not in a good mood, you're going to want to punch 'em, right? It's the exact same physical sensation of being tickled, but the mood that you have going into it affects how you react to it. And I have to say, James has become quite brilliant at this. He pays attention, like I said, to those two different types of communication. And when he sees the implicit signals that I'm stressed and that means my break is on, he doesn't wait for me to ask. He proactively handles the thing, whatever it is. Um, and this helps me to release the brake. And he also knows how to hit the accelerator. And I have a kind of funny one because one of my breaks has always been fear that our children were gonna be able to hear us having sex. And so he learned to start turning on all the bathroom fans around the house 'cause it creates some white noise. And um, and that started as a way to turn off my breaks. Um, but now when James turns on the fans and puts on the music, I know that he's setting the stage and it's a non-verbal signal to me. And because we've had so many fun, pleasurable experiences with bathroom fans on, it's kind of become this Pavlovian accelerator for me. So the important thing is not to just initiate sex. You've gotta set the stage and make sure that the context makes it easy for the person who needs a little bit more time to warm up to just show up. Fifth number three, I call this secure the perimeter. And you have to protect your privacy. If you have teens like ours, you know that they're night owls. And we used to try to wait for them to go to bed, but we realized that if we continued to try to wait for them to go to bed, we would never have sex ever again. So. We learned to secure their perimeter. Um, the first thing we did was we started to treat our calendar like a dating app. Um, there's so many couples that look for excuses not to have sex, right? I'm too busy, I'm too tired. There's all these different things going on. But when James and I see a gap or an overlap in the schedule, we claim it. So it's like, Hey, um, this kid is gonna be at swim practice and this kid is gonna be over at this person's house, so we're gonna have a couple hours, like, shall we schedule a little rendezvous? Um, and that also means getting creative with opportunities. So for example, with teens, they stay up late, but they also sleep late, right? So a Saturday morning when the house is asleep is a real prime opportunity. Um, lunch breaks, you know, my husband and I, we both work from home, so sometimes we'll schedule a lunch date in the bedroom and make it playful. Recently my husband came up with something really fun that he calls sanctuary and he plans 20 different sexual experiences over a month and a half as he, it's kind of like an advent calendar. So he envisioned what he wanted to do and all I had to do was open a box for that day and see what was in store for me and just show up, willing to engage in whatever it was that we were gonna do. Um, and that was really fun and exciting and again, bringing that play back in. And then I feel like this should go without saying, but obviously use locks. Teach your kids to knock. Um, it's healthy for kids to see that their parents prioritize their private relationship. And no, we're not announcing that we're having sex, but our kids know to knock before they come into our bedroom. Um, and it's also really important for you to feel secure that no one's gonna barge in because otherwise it will be very difficult to allow your body to relax into pleasure.

Responsive Desire

Amy Rowan 23:31

Third, we have to stop expecting our body to be able to go from zero to 60 instantaneously. If the only time that your partner touches you is to initiate sex, it starts to feel like a demand, like pressure. And so instead, I recommend cultivating what I like to call erotic simmering. And to understand why this works, we have to understand the two types of desire. So spontaneous desire is the way that we expect desire to work. It's that horniness, it's that very God godmother. It's the idea that desire should just appear right out of the blue flash, like all of a sudden like, yes, I'm ready. Like let's go upstairs. Um, and for many people, typically men, though it's not always along gender lines, um, women experience this too. Um, but for a lot of people, this is the norm, is that spontaneous desire. But the other type is responsive desire. And this is how the majority of women actually operate. Desire emerges in response to pleasure and connection. It kicks in after arousal has started. It kicks in only if the context of the situation is right. So again, think about the physics of fire. It is infinitely harder to relight a flame that's gone completely cold than it is to keep it at a low simmer. And so simmering means that foreplay starts at breakfast. It doesn't start at bedtime when you climb into bed. And James knows that the first time that he touches me, it was when we climb into bed at 10 30 at night. My responsive brain has not had enough runway to take off. And so we simmer to keep the context sexy all the time. And that looks like snuggling on the couch the night before. But no intention, no agenda. It's a lingering kiss in the kitchen before work. It's a flirty text in the middle of the day. There are so many fun, dirty memes that you can send back and forth. I highly recommend exploring them, um, or it's a butt smack or a look that says, I desire you, but without demanding sex in that exact moment, without expectation, without expecting it later. And the partner that has the higher spontaneous sex drive has the specific job to do here, and that's to proactively turn on the ons and turn off the offs. So if something that you know is one of her offs is a cluttered kitchen or decision fatigue, handle it. James knows that my body turns on the most when my brain is turned off. So he makes things easy for me by taking away the decisions. He turns on the fans, he sets out the towels in the lube, he puts on the soft music. He handles all of the logistics so I don't have to break my focus. So all the things my brain might be trying to do, he is like, no, it's done, it's done, it's done. And then I could just show up, surrender and allow my responsive desire to catch up. And then finally, the most critical shift here is permission. Women need to realize that you are worth the time that it takes to become fully aroused biologically. It typically takes most women 20 to 40 minutes to reach full arousal. And I want you to really think about that number because if your baby needed to be rocked for 20 to 40 minutes to go to bed, would you give up after five minutes and say, you know, this is taking too long. Get yourself to sleep kid. Or would you rock your baby for 20 to 40 minutes? Of course, of course you would. You wouldn't even question it. So why won't you give yourself that? Same time? A huge shift that I realized is that once I gave my body permission to let it take as long as it takes, everything changed. And once I stopped questioning why things don't feel good yet, because let's be honest, sometimes in the early stages of foreplay it doesn't feel like much. Sometimes it can even be mildly irritating. But once I stopped wondering what was wrong with me, and I gave my body permission to warm up on its own schedule without rushing it, without forcing it, I never had an issue experiencing pleasure or orgasm ever again. So you are worth the time that it takes. Your pleasure matters, and the more pleasure you have, the more sex you'll actually want. So we've covered the myth of spontaneous desire, accelerators and breaks, privacy, simmering and permission.

Resources and Closing Message

Amy Rowan 28:04

And to help you implement this, I have two resources, um, for you. So the first one is my Intimacy Reset Guide. Um, you know, people ask me, how do we make time for intimacy? You've got three kids, you're running two businesses, all of this stuff. And the honest answer isn't just that we prioritize it. Um, though that is absolutely piece of it, but we intentionally take care of our relationship in a way that builds trust, safety, and connection. And so when life gets busy, guilt and expectations are only going to make things worse. So we don't rely on spontaneity. We don't wait for everything to feel perfect, and we follow what I have put into this guide. Um, and you know, it talks about a Sunday check-in. I'll be honest, our check-ins don't always happen on Sundays. Sometimes it's Tuesday. Sometimes it's just walking back and forth, um, day in and day out because things shift so quickly. Um, but we do do this at least once a week. And I've also included a really fun special bonus practice if one partner is feeling especially overwhelmed. And then option two, it's on the same link. It's regaining intimacy after breast cancer. And if you like me, have navigated any sort of health crisis, um, this workbook will help because cancer changes our bodies, it changes our sense of self. And finding your way back to pleasure can feel very challenging. And so this is the process that I followed to help me reconnect with myself as a woman in a new body that I didn't recognize anymore. So I wanna come into everyone who is joined and the this Power of Pleasure Summit. It says so much you, about you as a person that you wanna change and improve your intimacy. And again, I wanna thank Leah and Dr. Willow for inviting me to be a part of it. You know, our youngest son, when we kiss in front of him, he's like, stop kissing. Why are you guys always kissing each other? And we just kind of laugh and we reply. We like kissing each other because when parents prioritize their relationship, kids learn that love isn't optional and it doesn't get dropped when life gets inconvenient and busy. We choose each, we choose each other every single day, even when it's hard, even when we're tired, especially in those times. So thank you guys so much and I really hope that you choose connection and pleasure

The Dish with Leah & Dr. Willow Brown

Amy Rowan 30:24

today.

30:24

Now our favorite part, the dish.

Leah 30:28

Okay, now for the dish with Amy Rowan.

Willow 30:32

Uh, Amy Broan. What a smart woman. Oh my God. She's pulling it all together. She's weaving it in, right? She's making it happen. Like managing kids, managing schedules, managing relationship, and still having great sex.

Leah 30:46

Yeah, I mean, managing cancer, having a kid that was in trouble. I mean, wow. Talk about having your, your arms full. And I really love, she gave so much great advice, didn't she? I mean. Uh, one of the things, um, I really appreciated was the piece on Red Zone, yellow Zone. Green Zone.

Willow 31:08

Yeah.

Leah 31:09

And how, and then

Willow 31:10

your partner, so your partner's tracking it too.

Leah 31:14

Yeah, she gave great examples of how, uh, in partnership with her husband James, he really was attuned to her so that they got to avoid being in the red zone. Mm-hmm. I also really appreciated the nachos metaphor. You know, when you're talking about your partner.

Willow 31:32

Booty.

Leah 31:33

Yeah, of course, of course. Um, and she's saying like, look, you wouldn't serve your guests leftover nachos, so why are you serving your partner leftover nachos? The leftover nachos representing sort of like our leftover intimacy. Like they get the, here's what

Willow 31:49

I got for you, this little bit of whatever I have left over. Yeah.

Leah 31:54

Right, right. Yeah. Um, I think that's a really good reminder

Willow 31:57

once are desired in that state. Yeah. You gotta start fresh. Dump those old nachos out and create something beautiful. Feast Bowl for your partner.

Leah 32:08

Uh, there was something else that she really brought home and that was talking about accelerators and breaks, and we've talked about this on the show in the past, but I really loved the way she described them, especially her example of the fans, how like there's this fear of the kids. They're gonna hear them having sex and that just puts the brakes on for her. Yeah, that's, she can't talk herself out of that.

Willow 32:33

She needs to have, yeah, she can't like make the moans and the big heavy breath that she needs to have. So her husband intu, or you know, creatively thought well just turn on all the fans in the bathroom and I'll turn on some music so she could make some more noise.

Leah 32:49

Well, even if she doesn't make more noise, it's the fact that she can relax and enjoy her experience because he is aware of her breaks. So if he can help turn off one of her breaks, that allows her to come into the role of, of finding her accelerators. And I think where we get really stuck is women know about their breaks. But they don't know about their accelerators. And then how to work and balance the two and how to do that in partnership is so critical. So you've really gotta have this language. I hope our audience is appreciating this new language too. I know, I am.

Willow 33:23

You know, I imagine too, like something like turning on the fans in the bathroom has like a Pavlov and dogs sort of like reaction to it, where then her body just starts to go into like, okay, we're going into arousal. Saying and we're dropping into some other state. You know, I think that that is really quite brilliant. I love the way she spoke about. Her relationship with her husband because that is, that's the example that, you know, so many need to be hearing.

Leah 33:52

Yeah. And I'm sure there's lots of people listening going, I wish my partner was paying attention to me like that. And so I think having these kinds of conversations that are not like blame focused, but are really communicating impact it would have on you if your partner turned towards you specifically with more attunement. And then to also ask your partner, what can I do that shows you that I'm prioritizing you? Because it, I might think that I am being obvious about that, but if that's not your language, like if that doesn't land with you, then I'm also missing the mark. Right. And so having a shared conversation where you can both go, where am I not seeing you? Yeah. How can I prioritize you? Where am I not attuned to you? What are the signals that you are giving that I'm missing

Willow 34:39

totally.

Leah 34:39

So that we can care for each other in a much more conscientious way.

Willow 34:44

It definitely like when you are doing that and when you're in relationship and you know, you are actually having good, satisfying, healthy, like inspiring sex on a regular basis, all the other things that you're dealing with are easier to deal with, you know? Mm-hmm. The cancer diagnosis, the journey with the, you know, troubled children, the just keeping it all together. You know, you think that you're gonna be more exhausted from taking the time out to have more fun in the bedroom, but that's if you're doing it in the old way, that's been keeping you exhausted, right? So it's like this. I loved all the examples that she gave and all the things to actually implement and do, because that is how you can create a whole new relationship with your intimate partner. Like you're

Leah 35:32

yeah.

Willow 35:33

Relationship, but you're with the same person you've been with for a long time.

Leah 35:36

You're really bringing it back home to those, those, what did you call it, red, yellow, and green.

Willow 35:42

Yeah.

Leah 35:43

Um, she used another word for it. I said it earlier. I've already, it's already floated outta my brain, but. But those zones, right? Those red, yellow, and green zones where if you're paying attention, you can, and you could be going through this shitter, right? Like your parent could be dying or you know, like a health emergency or there's, you know, some emergency with your kid and how we hold each other during crisises and how we can buffer each other from our red zones. Man, this is what makes relationship. Like the biggest blessing, but it's also those situations that can break people up. And I feel like, God forbid you find yourself in one of those transitions and inflection points in your life. I hope you plug in someone like Amy Rowan to remind you how your intimacy can get closer when you are navigating an obstacle together, instead of using that obstacle against each other, you face the obstacle together. And intimacy can grow from that, from those crisises. Yeah.

Willow 36:45

Such a huge difference. Such a different way of being in relationship and, and you know, I wanna say too, it takes two to tango. Yeah. Cannot do this all by yourself. Like you have to, your partner has to be on board and willing and like, yeah, let's implement. Let's learn. Let's see what we can navigate together. Let's see if we can co-create something even more close and bonding throughout this challenging struggle. One of the things I love to do um, is put a container around everything. Hmm. So like, let's say you do get, you know, your parent does get a diagnosis and you're like, okay, here we go. We're going through this next portal. Put a container around it, which to me means like calling in spiritual support and guides and guardians and you know, and like asking for a spiritual team to kinda walk you through it. But a container could also be like, you know, for the next three months, let's you and I life partner, like be on this page together and do these practices. For the next three months of this, you know, dealing with the, or whatever,

Leah 37:52

you know, this is where people who have a really strong religious faith come out really strong. You know when you are, when you have a shared faith, like people who are. Devout Christians or are, uh, you know, Jewish and very devout in their, um, Judaism. They often have this built in and it is supported by community where there's a container where they kind of go to a higher power to help them when they're being faced with adversity and more and more. Statistically, especially in America, we are, we are moving away from organized religion. Mm-hmm. And I think if there was something that we could still learn from organized religion, it is how to use creatively the power of container, that would be our language, our spiritual, spiritual language for it. Right. Which is different than a, a religious tradition language. But something that is prayer like that makes you feel like you're being held by something bigger than yourself, so you don't, you're not shouldering the burden all by yourself.

Willow 38:56

Right.

Leah 38:57

I think it's a beautiful gift that we could all learn from.

Willow 38:59

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. All right, well

Leah 39:02

all

Willow 39:03

love you all.

Leah 39:04

Thanks everybody. See you on the next one.

Speaker 2 39:06

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Taxology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, like subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.