Elana Auerbach: The Intimacy Practice That Fixed Our Sex Life #189

What happens when a Wall Street career, a loveless marriage, and one powerful medicine journey collide? You get Elana Auerbach, sensuality educator and author of The Sure Thing: A Pleasure Practice to Revive the Spark, and she is the real deal. Leah and Willow sit down with Elana to unpack how she went from living a life that looked perfect on paper to discovering deliberate orgasm, building a weekly pleasure practice with her partner of 25 years, and helping couples everywhere trade resentment for genuine erotic connection. If desire discrepancy, low motivation, or years of built-up relationship gunk have been running your sex life, this episode is the reset button you didn't know you needed. 

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

• From Wall Street to priesthood, Elana's journey out of a loveless marriage and into a life built around pleasure is the kind of origin story that makes you want to blow up your own conveyor belt.
• Deliberate orgasm, orgasmic meditation, pussy stroking as meditation — Leah breaks down the Morehouse roots of this practice and why it still works, controversy aside.
• Responsive desire is the concept that will change how you think about your sex life. You don't need to be in the mood first. You just need to start.
• Elana and her partner struggled with desire discrepancy for 12 years before one scheduled weekly practice flipped everything. Here's exactly how she finally invited him in.
• Your wild sensual self is not gone, she's just waiting for a canvas. Elana started skiing and training for her black belt in aikido in her 50s. That's what a pleasure practice can unlock.

LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND HERE

The Sacred Spot Weekend | July 17-19, 2026 in NYC | Join Leah & Guy Shahar to learn the Tantric Sacred Spot Ritual Sequence! Click Here to Register. 

Erotic Polarity Online Masterclass - Join us July 29th for a live masterclass on zoom. Starts at 4pm Pacific / 7pm Eastern. Register for $33 HERE (free limited replay window available)

AWAKEN AROUSAL OIL LUBRICANT | Reach new levels of intimacy with our arousal oil, formulated for the female body. Once applied, this topical oil works with your body to enhance sensation and "o's," helping you reach states of euphoric pleasure.

Transcript

Welcome and Guest Intro

Elana 0:03

Welcome, welcome to the Sex Reimagined the one and only Leah Piper. We are Sex Reimagined, and we're so excited today because we're gonna introduce you to an incredible woman, Elana Auerbach,

Leah 0:20

and

Elana 0:21

she has been on quite

Leah 0:23

a

Elana 0:23

journey. So how does, how does a woman go from just living a perfect life on paper to discovering the kind of pleasure and intimacy that actually turns her on and makes her feel super alive? she has journeyed from Wall Street to priesthood, reclaiming desire, truth, and fulfillment. So we're so excited that she's with us today.

Leah 0:46

if you've been with us for a long time, you know what's about to come up. But if you are new, we want you all right now to tune in, be very focused, be very present, turn on, and fall in love with Elana

Speaker 0:59

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show

Elana 1:08

We're so excited you're here Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure

Leah 1:15

tell us a little bit about,

Elana 1:16

um, your journey. Sounds like it's been quite a, from way over here to way over here. Well,

Good Girl Conveyor Belt

Elana 1:25

it's, you know, it's a journey that ends up many women that I've met over the past couple of decades, it's very familiar. It's being the good girl. I call that this part of my life being on the conveyor belt of life, doing what I was supposed to do, doing what would get me approval from authority figures in my life, whether it was my parents or my teachers or society in general, right? And so I was just kind of chugging along. I went to UCLA, I studied math. I graduated Phi Beta Kappa. I got a job on Wall Street. I'm totally miserable. I loved living in Manhattan, but I'm just miserable, soul-sucking job for me, not, you know, maybe everybody. And then I realized, oh, this is my dad's dream to make a lot of money, right? and meanwhile, I meet this guy who there's no chemistry But he looks great on paper. My parents love him. So he proposes. Pit of a volcano erupts in my belly, and I ignore it, and, and I start crying. He's like: "Well, does that mean yes?" And I was like, "I guess so."

Leah 2:37

Right.

Elana 2:39

Like no... Like I capacity, no capacity for the courage to hurt, to hurt him and hurt his feelings and not do what he wanted, even though lovely person, but just no chemistry, you know? So

Marriage Wake Up Call

Elana 2:56

ended up, you know, disassociating, disconnecting more, got married, and was married for just a few years. And after doing, uh, a medicine journey with a Hakomi body-based somatic therapist I was working with in San Francisco at the time, over almost 25 years ago now, the end of the journey, it was like this rebirthing, and she was like: "Well, where does this guy fit in?" And I was like: "He doesn't." I've been trying to squish him in, like for four years while we were married. I just put us through the wringer to try and find him in my heart. The problem was he was already in my heart, he just wasn't in my pussy, there was no... And it was just like, okay. So a- at that, after that journey, I went and told him. At the time, it was the most courageous thing I'd ever done in my life, in my early 30s, to say, "I want a separation." And he was breaking down and, and I knew I could make it all better, and there was this part of me that was like, "Oh, just, just go sit next to him on the couch and just take it all back. It'll be okay. It'll be okay." And like squishing. It was like, "No. I am clear with what I and what's right for me," and it turns out, what's right for both of us. He ended up finding someone, has a beautiful life, has a beautiful family now, and so forth. And so... And that then opened me up to really start exploring pleasure and orgasm. And I had a friend in San Francisco who was real- who was part of what I call the pleasure people at the time. They were exploring, exploring pleasure together. Mostly y- y- d- had, and had a, a practice called a deliberate orgasm. So I did this

Leah 4:39

course... orgasm?

Elana 4:41

Tell us or- Right? Let's talk deliberate orgasm. Well, this is something

Deliberate Orgasm Explained

Elana 4:45

that I learned in the pleasure course, and it is something that, y- you know, comes from like kind of a, uh, this guy named Vic Bronco. So he started, uh... So it's basically one person is at effect.

Leah 4:59

Is that Morehouse?

Elana 5:00

Morehouse.

Leah 5:01

Yes. Okay. I'm like, so this is starting, I'm starting to follow where this is

Elana 5:05

You're starting to like c- connect the dots. So yeah, so it's, it's basically one person is, um, receiving and the other

Leah 5:14

This is stroking,

Elana 5:15

the other person's genitals. And it's, it's a wonderful practice to add to any sexual repertoire. And that's where I met my, who would become my lover man for life in the advanced pleasure course, and we became research partners. We had an open relationship. This was new for both of us be in an open relationship, and we were exploring... Our research was exploring pleasure and orgasm, and mostly my orgasm. And, and you probably know, then we, we actually had a brief moment in OneTaste before it was even called OneTaste. That was something my, my spouse was the one unfortunately, much to his chagrin, who named that place. But back 20 years ago, one our was What's that?

Leah 6:01

it was a great name. One Taste is a great name.

Elana 6:03

Fabulous name. I know, I know. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, m- m- many,

OneTaste Context and Controversy

Elana 6:08

not many couples go into a sex cult and come out of a sex cult

Leah 6:11

still together, right? Yes.

Elana 6:13

we did that. That was remarkable.

Leah 6:16

Yeah did, how

Elana 6:17

did that bring you guys closer together going through that? Well, uh, leaving. I mean, we were really... Our relationship was together like a, like a, you know, a, a spiderweb

Leah 6:30

thread,

Elana 6:30

you know? But spiderweb, those are really strong, and they're supple, and they stretch, and, and it brought us together because we, we endured that. I mean, and it was, I mean, that's a whole nother story Yeah, that I'm happy to talk about. And, uh, it was, uh, because, uh, the person who was leading that cult was trying to set, push, pull, push us apart that he would leave and I would stay.

Leah 6:57

உம்.

Elana 6:59

And so really seeing, like waking up from the spell that I was under and seeing what was real and then going, "Holy shit, what have I done?" 嗯 Yeah of going along with someone else and, and,

Leah 7:18

you know,

Elana 7:18

not listening to my own inner wisdom and following along with someone else. Yeah.

Leah 7:22

I wanna give a little bit of context for our listeners who may be like, What are they talking about?" Um, you can learn more about the, um, controversy having to do with OneTaste and Nicole Daedone on a documentary called, um, Orgasm Inc., for those of you who haven't heard about what we're talking about. And Moorehouse originated this type of pussy stroking in particular that Nicole then took and repackaged it as orgasmic meditation. And one of the beautiful parts that has, I think, a lot of efficacy still today, regardless of the controversy that surrounds Nicole, is this stroking process is a way to meditate on your pleasure, where your focus for most m- most of it, now this, people have all sorts of different iterations, but, um, typically people know it as a way for the strokee to be able to come and track their own system, to wake up their clitoris, to experience all the body knowledge that the body wants to communicate. So that could be a cathartic release. It could be bigger turn-on than you've ever experienced before. It could be edging where you're getting close to climax. It could be going over the waterfall. Whatever a woman is capable of, my friends, she will likely experience it through a dedicated practice where she gets to meditate on her vulva and on her clitoris and all those good things. So that's a little bit of context. Is there anything briefly you want to add to that, that I might have missed?

Elana 8:51

I just think it's a, it's a wonderful practice to continue to expand

Leah 8:56

your

Elana 8:56

capacity to dissolve into pleasure dissolve into orgasm. And wherever that takes you, if it's edging, if it's coming back, if it's like opening, opening, and then opening the waterfall and another gush and another gush, it's all possible. And, and it's a, it's a beautiful practice, and it's a wonderful practice, and it was a brilliant, um, renaming for all the spiritual seekers. It's not a spiritual practice. However, it sounds like one because of, of how, uh, Nicole renamed it. It's a body-based pleasure practice. That's a wonderful thing that you can do your, yourself, you can also do with a partner

Leah 9:36

Now, now I-- if I could just add this one question before we move on to any other place, if you don't mind, Willow, and that is what was your orgasms like before you started on this journey? Were they easy? Were they difficult? Somewhere in between?

Elana 9:52

Yeah. The easy and fast, right? Easy, quick. Now it's like and, and then the r- going over the edge and then very lots of sensitivity, lots of

Leah 10:04

Okay. Like that sharp and then it's like, "Ah, ga, ga, ga."

Elana 10:07

That right, exactly. Okay, enough. Leave, you know, off, off the clit. And so that's, that's, you know, really changed dramatically. Yeah. And continues to

Willow 10:17

if somebody is brand new to this conversation, doesn't know what OneTaste is or orgasmic meditation, this pussy stroking, focused practice, where can they learn about it these days?

Elana 10:30

Well, I do talk about, I call it deliberate orgasm in my book, um, "The Sure Thing: A Pleasure Practice, um, to Revive the Spark." There's also-- I learned it from Erwan Devon, and Erwan and Alicia still teach it in, in the San Francisco area. They probably have some online.

Leah 10:50

嗯 哼

Elana 10:50

uh, so yeah, tho- those are, those are the places that I would recommend.

Leah 10:55

Yeah, we will

Elana 10:57

we've Method, which is, which is also like a, a, a, a based on the deliberate

Leah 11:03

Morehouse. Yeah. And, uh, we will link, um, their episode. Uh, we've had them on the show. Well, we've had Alicia on the show. Um, so you can find that in the show notes on the website. And then Moorehouse is still active teaching classes, is it not?

Elana 11:19

I don't know.

Leah 11:21

was they Are to a class with them probably six years ago maybe. look up Morehouse, y'all, if, if you're curious, but more importantly, look up you, Alana. So tell us

Elana 11:35

your book. Tell

Leah 11:36

Yeah

Elana 11:37

uh what,

Book and Weekly Practice

Elana 11:38

who is this book ideal for, and what is the transformation that they're gonna get through it? Yeah. So this book is ideal for anyone who is wanting to connect with more sensual sexual pleasure, really, whether you're in a relationship or you're not. So you can do this, uh, uh, it can be a solo practice, it can be a partner practice. Th- and this came out of my relationship with my spouse, you know, who I met 25 years ago w- at an Erwan, in Erwan's living room, actually his kitchen. Anyway, so And a- we had a child. We got married in 2008. We had a kid, and then l- you know, our cosmic coitus really went to the backseat, you know, way back of the bus. Responsibilities, the kid, the job, all of these things. And so for 12 years we struggled because like all couples, desire discrepancy, arousal discrepancy, I'm i- into it, he's not, he's into it, I'm not, all this built up gunk, resentment, abandonment feelings, you know, all these withholds. It was yucky. And I came up with this idea of having a weekly pleasure practice, but it took me almost two years to invite him into it because I had so much built up, you know, resentment and was like, But still, I'm like harming myself, right? 'Cause I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. He's not getting it. So finally, I committed to a friend to say, "Okay, by the winter solstice 2020," this was December 2020, the longest night of the year in the Northern Hemisphere, I said, "I'm gonna invite him in by... And s- b- before then." So I had like a witness, I had accountability, and I w- I invited him in. Our kid had a drum lesson, and I said, "Come on baby, let's like get it on." Okay, 'cause I had this all planned. We were gonna make love, and then in that afterglow I was gonna ask him. And I said, "How would you like to deepen in intimacy, pleasure, and connection every week while our kid is at his drum lesson?" He said, "Sure, baby. That sounds great." And, and so we started, and I had no idea that just having a rhythm and a commitment. I mean, what we then did right there was have a commitment to practice intimacy together. Угу and the next week. And it was just putting away devices, putting away whatever else we were doing, and turning towards each other

Leah 14:11

Угу

Elana 14:12

exploring. And what a foundational question that we began to ask was, "What would be most pleasurable right now?" And one of us would ask the other one. And, and so then we had this practice, and a few months into it, I-- my life looked so different. Our relationship, this like edge in my voice of being really pissed off and like the, the tone that I used to use was like, you know, "You F-ing idiot,"

Leah 14:38

Right

Elana 14:39

w- was just disappeared

Leah 14:42

I

Elana 14:42

now felt fulfilled. I felt so connected with myself and with him, and it was like a deeper, more intimate... And we had a really, really hot beginning of our relationship, you know, as, as research partners, and this was beyond. And

Leah 14:58

so

Elana 14:59

Yeah. And so a few months into it, after our sure thing, which often we would high five and be like, This is so amazing. simple, so profound, really incredible," I said, "Babes, I think I'm gonna have to write a book because I don't wanna keep to myself. I wanna share this with others. I know others are struggling with this too." And so that's, that's c- came the inspiration to write the book. And, and really, uh, the book is an interactive playbook. There are guided journeys. There are lots of different exercises. There are... It's, it's all about creating a personalized practice that's reliable for you to fulfill your own sensual desires I think that's one of the things that is so missing inside of whether you're s- solo or partnered, it's like having consistency, you know, having something on the calendar. I'm always doing these, these practices by the moon cycle because the new moon and the full moon are going to come every single month, you know? So I've got all of my women on that, on that track and that thread. But I love that you're, you know, highlighting a weekly practice for a couple because especially a couple who's been together for a long time and, you know, things can get, um All kinds of things can build up over long periods of time, especially when you enter other human souls into the equation, like children. So, you know, it's, um I'm su- I'm sure that saw results almost immediately, but then those results started to deepen and expand, which is why you could write an entire book on a weekly session. It's like it seems so simple, but it becomes so vast and so profound. That's right. That's

Leah 16:49

So I'm curious,

Overcoming Resistance

Leah 16:50

what advice do you have for, uh, 'cause I see so many women, I've even had this experience myself, where it's, "Okay, I'm supposed to show up for this," uh, but there's a lack of enthusiasm. In fact, there's a ton of resistance. Uh, there's maybe even a bad attitude, some frustration. How can someone who wants to show up more powerfully but is also weighing that they've got all these distractions, they've got a list going on in their head that they're thinking about, "Gosh, I could be spending this time doing this or knocking this off," um, having a hard time getting in their body, feeling themselves feel critical towards their partner just so they don't have to show up. Do you have any advice for the person who's struggling? And it doesn't have to be a woman, it could be a man, too.

Elana 17:37

That's right. That's right. I have lots of advice

Leah 17:41

Mhm

Elana 17:41

for that, for that person because I, I, I continue, I continue to be that person. And then I always ask myself, "What do I want?" Like wh- when it's our time, right? I mean, the, the thing about having the reliable, it's a commitment. It's, it's the time now. So-- and I, and I don't wanna get off the couch 'cause I wanna watch that next episode of this show that I'm really loving. And then I think about, for a moment, I just pause. And that's what a lot of the book is, of, is mindful practice, is mindfulness and getting to know ourselves, and getting to know, you know, that part, that couch potato archetype, right? We all have one. And so the couch potato was like, "Oh, I just wanna watch and just totally zone out." And then the other part is like, "Okay, well, if I go do a Sure Thing with, with Bill right now, then I'm gonna feel more in my body, more connected with him, more fulfilled." And I will tell you that practicing for almost five and a half years now, there has not been once that I-- we've finished a Sure Thing either with my spouse or with myself that I've been like, "Oh, that's a waste of time.

Leah 18:48

was just a Oh, geez. Wish we hadn't spent time

Elana 18:50

I wish didn't do that. It's like, you you go to a yoga class? Y- you know, you never go to yoga and be like, "Eh." Or sit on a m- do meditation if you're meditation. It's a practice. So that's the thing. It's like, "Okay, I don't really want to." And that's where effort comes in. You know, first you have to have a commitment. So you have to have a h- a commitment that inspires you. Your intention for a Sure Thing, uh, is what I call the practice, it has to inspire you. From-- our, our intention is to deepen an intimacy, pleasure, and connection. I want that. I want that with me. I want that with my man, and that still inspires me. Once it stops inspiring me, I'll come up with another intention. So you've gotta start with something that gets you going, that turns you on, right? And then you bring the commitment. It's like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna..." L- just like you have a commitment to working out, a commitment to your therapist, a commitment to taking care of your kids, a commitment to whatever, to studying. You have a commitment. You just get off the couch and go into the bedroom. And sometimes, here's the thing There's a whole part of the book that talks about how to prepare myself, how to prepare yourself, and to find what softens you, what gets you more in your body, so that as you're-- the time is coming towards your sure thing, maybe you wanna take a bath, maybe you wanna go walk in nature, maybe you wanna do some meditation. Whatever it is that helps you to feel more in your body and more open and receptive, right? So, so you can prepare yourself. And even if you don't have time for that and you're cranky and you're like, "I don't wanna do it, but I said I was gonna do it and I'm do it, and I know it's good for me." Okay? Even if you just have to be like, "It's good for me. Fine. Screw it. Let's go to the bedroom. Okay, fine." What I-- we have-- find something that, like there might be the scent of some scent, the scent of rose. For me, music. So as soon as we turn on the Sure Thing playlist and I start to hear a couple of those really funky tunes, I'll start to sway and I'll start to feel something, usually. If not, we can

Responsive Desire Unpacked

Elana 21:01

just lie on the bed and hold hands and just lie there and notice, because this is when-- it was a real game changer for me when I learned about responsive arousal and desire, and not spontaneous. Not just-- 'cause we all, you know, including myself, you know, are conditioned that it's, you know, this kind of thing is supposed to happen spontaneously. I'm not supposed to schedule it. I am not supposed to...

Leah 21:25

I should just want it.

Elana 21:27

Yeah want it and it's supposed to flare up and then, know, we're gonna have great sex, and it's gonna be lusty and passionate and everything. It's like, well, after 10 years, after 20 years, after three years, after maybe six months, it may not be there anymore. But then there's responsive desire and arousal, which arises out of context and out of feeling comfortable with somebody. And so we might just lie on the bed and hold hands, be like, "Babes, can you just tickle my back?" You know? And then I'll be like, "Can you kiss my neck?" You know? And then all of a sudden it's like, "Yeah, can you lick my pussy?" You know? so it, it, things just unfold. But it's not about pressure or performance. It's about a commitment with some effort, that will have to be coupled with some effort and some devotion to what it is you want in your life, what it is you wanna experience in-- with our one precious life here. What do you wanna experience in your body? What do you wanna create in your couple? And so we have to be devoted to that,

Leah 22:33

Yeah

Elana 22:33

is we want, so that we then can get, get out of our comfort zone and get off the couch and kind of say no to the couch potato. It's like, "I'll watch that. Don't worry. I'll indulge the couch potato, but just not right now."

Leah 22:48

You can binge later. That's

Elana 22:50

right

Leah 22:51

H- Um has

Elana 22:53

this, um, shifted, uh, Bill's relationship to his own sexuality, virility, and body? Hmm. What a great question. Well, I think he feels definitely more connected with, with his sex, and he's-- and he feels... I'll tell you a story. About maybe a year or two into our practice, he started telling me things, and meanwhile, we've been together for 20 years at this point, and he's starting to share things with me that he has never shared before.

Leah 23:30

嗯。

Elana 23:30

嗯 so good. I feel so included." And I, I recognized that he's private, and that was okay, and it was so delicious to be part of his inner world like that. And I said, "Well, what has changed?" And he thought about it for a minute, and he said, "I think it's our sure thing. I so close to you." Mhm it's the, it's, it's wonderful, and the intimacy is, it, and, and the love and the tenderness is what is just, woof, really, um,

Leah 24:11

Valuable.

Elana 24:13

So

Leah 24:13

Yeah. Yeah

Elana 24:15

I I love

Kid Proof Pleasure Time

Elana 24:16

that you guys were like, "Okay, drum lesson. That, that's gonna work. That's our-- We're starting there." That's where you kicked it off. But I-- There-- I know there's many, many women out there with multiple children, and they don't all Yes the drum lesson together. That's one part. So, so what's your advice for women with, you

Leah 24:33

I'm scheduling

Elana 24:34

a lot of kids, and then... Or just no time. And then also, know that for many women, like having a time limit already kinda puts them in a, a resistant place in their body. Like it's hard to open up. If I know it's gonna end at 2:00, you know, it's like then I, I don't think I can open quickly

Leah 24:56

enough for that's interesting though. I think for a lot of women it's like, "Oh good, that's when I know it'll be over." So some may go, "Oh, there won't be enough time for me." Another one will be like, "Oh good, that way I know I got an out."

Elana 25:10

Exactly. I mean, and that's the thing about the Sure Thing is that it's completely customizable. So you could do 10 minutes, you could do all night, right? if you just have the hour w- then, uh, you, you-- it-- th- there's no goal. The goal is to fulfill whatever your intention is that you set with yourself, with your partner. For those people who have multiple children, however many kids, and so many responsibilities, what I recommend is that one of the things that works for some is that you have a friend who also has lots of kids that you enroll in having their own Sure Thing with their spouse. And so then you swap childcare duties, and then you also, it's, it's, it also create, is, is inspiring 'cause you can share different... You can talk about it, and this is what we're planning on doing, and this is what we did, and this is what he did, and oh my God. So that's really fun. You can also-- I've known some couples that they lock their-- they tell their kids this is time that, you know,

Leah 26:18

parents and dad are doing their homework,

Elana 26:20

and doing their thing. They're doing their, you

Leah 26:22

seriously.

Elana 26:23

their grown-up, their adult hug. And so,

Leah 26:28

on the door, don't interrupt

Elana 26:30

us. Exactly. So that kind of thing and, and, uh, you know, only if it's absolute emergency, but the door's locked, okay? There's-- and that's when you can use... There are certain circumstances, I believe, that the electronic babysitter be used in a good way. And so put them in front of a, uh, their favorite show, take a- an hour,

Leah 26:52

Headphones and the video game. Go

Elana 26:54

or the video game, whatever it is. But, but so be intentional about it and prioritize your pleasure, because what I found is I am such a better parent now, you know, without all that pent-up resentment and more fulfilled and more s- in my body and more like waves of orgasm and ecstasy moving

Leah 27:16

Yeah

Elana 27:17

Guess what? My kids are better off for this practice. You know, it's did you guys ever watch that,

Vibrator Origins Story

Elana 27:24

uh, movie? It was like, it was the movie about how the vibrator came about No

Willow 27:33

doctors, and basically all these women way back in the day were coming in with all this pent-up like, "Wow, what's wrong with me?" And so main with hysterical off, and then the other... Then he taught his young apprentice how to do it too. And so they're walking out like, "Oh, everything's so much better," after have their orgasm. And that's how they invented the first vibrators, 'cause the doctors were like, We can't handle all these women." they were treating hysteria. They were, women were being diagnosed with hysteria. Their husbands didn't know what to do with them, and so they started giving them G-spot massage. Their hands were getting too tired, they had too many patients, and they invented the vibrator. Um, that kind of sums up... There's a great article in The New York Times that talks about that, and then they turned it into a movie. Uh, but one of the things I wanna highlight that you've said that I think is important for people to kind of bookmark in their mind as sort of a, a neurological way to work with your mind, and that is to go really notice and talk about how much better you feel when you show up and you do your practice. Because it affirms out loud to your partner, to you, and to your brain, "This is worth us being committed to." It drops cortisol levels. So if you have a bunch kids or one kid or no kids, and you got a stressful job and your cortisol levels are high, coming together with your partner and practicing intimacy is gonna give you oxytocin dumps that's gonna drop your stress hormones. It's gonna soften you. Just like you said, you're gonna be a better in every sector of your life when you have a chance to drop into your body. So really highlight how you feel before you showed up to your practice and what changed as a result of your practice. And then zoom out and realize that this has an accumulative effect, like you were just talking about between you and your husband. If you wanna have a relationship that survives, that thrives, that stays connected, it is so easy for us to love someone, but then our paths start to float away. Like, our closeness shifts. The things we have in common shift. It's like we start to lose interest in each other. And by having these intimacy practice, it really solidifies your future that you're likely gonna stay happy together and that relationship is gonna have longevity. You won't drift apart. So I think it really has two things going for it. It's got long-term goals, which are probably the hardest thing for us to give into because we like instant gratification. But we can still have instant gratification if we can just, especially as women, give ourselves that 20 to 30 minutes of allowing our body to get turned on, to, to, to re- to try not to be in a rush, to find out how to feel that sensuality in your skin. And I think we've rushed sex so much in long-term relationships where we just wanna feel successful. So, like, the big goal is get it up, get it in, and get it off, and then whether I got off or not, at least I know I took care of my partner, and we can go on with the rest of our day. So I th- there's so many things that are operating in our conditioning that this might make a big shift in.

Elana 30:54

And I think 100%

Curiosity Wild Sensual Self

Elana 30:55

what you were saying, Leah, is, uh, what we've discovered is, which you all both know, is that the realm of intimacy and pleasure is infinite. And so if you bring some curiosity, not only are you getting closer to each other, but you're exploring this realm and discovering new things and surprises. I can't tell you h- how many times I, I'm like, "I didn't know this was possible. I didn't know. Let's try this," or let's... I mean, this whole creative channel is that same place of the sexual center. So as we start to open that and turn towards that and have a regular practice, all kinds of things are going to inspire you to create things, to question things, to be curious about. And so what I discovered, and I, I call her, uh, my wild sensual self, this part of myself who, sure, I, I recognized her from brief sexual encounters when I was younger, but really having her have a weekly canvas to show up. I call her Vivacious Viv, my wild sensual self. And I attest that each of us has a wild sensual self inside that maybe we know a little bit, maybe we know her a lot. Maybe we haven't connected with, with her in a long time, but she's still in there. And so what I found was every week she had this playground now, and she loves embodied activities. And so in starting The Sure Thing, I l- I learned how to ski after. I now am-- I love aikido. I love aikido. I've never done a sport. I've never done any kind of martial arts. It is so, it's so

Leah 32:44

is cool that.

Elana 32:45

I can't get... And hopefully I'm on track to be black belt by the time I'm 60. Yay. and started in my 50s, okay? During perimenopause. That so, so it, it, there's all kinds of things that will likely surprise you if we are willing to just have the devotion and the commitment of a practice

Leah 33:11

I like that, devotion

Devotion Not A Chore

Elana 33:12

word devotion. Yeah. 'Cause I feel like so often we feel like, "Oh, just one more thing to do, I have to commit to, I have to be diligent about, I have to

Leah 33:22

One more chore

Elana 33:23

But, like, devotion is such a better way of

Leah 33:27

looking at Yeah. Yeah, treating something as like it's precious to you, and so you're gonna tend to it, you're gonna caretake it, you're gonna treat it like it's important and valuable. I'm curious though, I mean, all that stuff's really lovely and awesome, and I love the potential that's there, but I imagine there are also ruptures that can happen when you show up for practice. Are there any big fights that you recall? Because sometimes fights can bring us closer if we do them well. You know, if you're good at fighting, it can often bring you closer, it just, that's a skill too of how you argue. You don't argue to hurt or prove, you argur- argue to get clear, you know? So I'm just curious if there was ever any obstacles that you or people that you know who've dedicated themselves to this have encountered that people could maybe watch out for?

Elana 34:16

Yeah. Well, a big, um, obstacle that happened early on was that Bill was sick, he was traveling, and there were weeks that went by that we weren't practicing. And so that tone, that tension, that stress, that constriction in my body was building up. And then I realized, "Wait a second, why am I not having a solo sure?" And that's when the solo sure was born. So

Leah 34:44

Cool.

Elana 34:44

thing, don't wait for anyone. Like me, I was waiting, right? I waited a long time. There's no one to wait for. There's no prince or princess charming. You can start with yourself. If your partner's not ready for whatever reason, is not interested, start with yourself. And this is something that you want to explore, do it. One of the things I talk about in the book is being 100% responsible for our pleasure,

Leah 35:09

Mhm

Elana 35:10

and it's a really fun, empowering game to play, I've found. And so if I take 100% responsibility, then it's like the cards are all in my hand, and I get to say and I get to ask and, and I get to make sure that I'm fulfilled in the way that I wanna be fulfilled. And that doesn't mean that I don't ask and make requests, and my partner doesn't do lots of things for me. Absolutely. However, the buck stops with me and my pleasure. Just like with him,

Different Intentions In Bed

Elana 35:40

it stops with him if So this then brings me to when partners have different-- Both partners want to-- They're, they're like, "Yes, let's do a sure thing." However, they have different intentions. One of them wants to have an, an orgasm every time, and the other one wants to have closeness.

Leah 35:58

う

Elana 35:58

then they come to me and they're like, "Okay, well we're stuck." I'm like, "Well, how come you're stuck?" "Well, 'cause we don't have the same intention." You can have different intentions. That's great. You just are 100% responsible for yourself, and so you're 100% responsible for ensuring that in your weekly pleasure practice, you fulfill your intention. Well, wait a second. What happens if I feel fulfilled with closeness, but she hasn't had an orgasm yet? Well, you've got options. You can, you can say, "Here's the lube, love, and I'll, I'll just lie

Leah 36:34

what?

Elana 36:35

But I'm, I feel, I feel complete. I'm done. I'm fulfilled." You can, you know, offer if you feel like you wanna offer, or you can, you can say, "You know what? I need to-- I wanna get in the bath right now, babe, but I wanna encourage you to be, fulfill your own intention," and encourage your partner to be 100% responsible in a really loving and empowering way. I mean, not be like, "Fuck you," you Get yourself off, biatch." No. Don't do that. Just be like, "Honey, I, I love you. I'm fulfilled. I want you to be fulfilled. Here's that lube that you love the best." You know, whatever. Right? "Here's your vibrator." Right. and some lube. Totally. There you go. "I'll rub your feet." Maybe you-- Right. "Join me in the bath."

Leah 37:25

Yeah. Yeah, 'cause I think a lot of people do feel obligated, and then that takes some joy out of their experience. I think the other thing that can happen

How to Start a Solo Exploration

Leah 37:33

is I think especially for women, we've sort of normalized male get off and male self-pleasuring. But for a lot of women, um, we- we've- we haven't been given permission to pursue our desire and to find out how we can come into bigger arousal or to how to find out what our own arousal map is. And so I know for me coming of age, it was like someone would say, "So what do you like? You know, what's your fantasy?" And I'm like, "Dude, I don't know. Try something. I'll tell you if I like it." Like, that was the only answer I had, which is a really not a very good answer. I've since learned to go, "I don't know, but I'm willing to find out." And so I think there also has to be an, uh, maybe a switch for various sensual bodies to go, "You know, I don't know what I like. I don't really know how to self-pleasure. I've never been able to get myself off, so where do I begin? How do I start?" If they were gonna do a solo sure thing.

Elana 38:31

Yeah. Well, you start with some time for yourself, you know? And if you have a partner, you just let them know you're gonna be exploring, so please, you know, don't come in. And, uh, you know, there's a lot of things in the book ways to explore. I, I encourage people to get a mirror. If you've never taken a look at your pussy and the beauty and the shades and the shapes and how it changes over time and over, you know, as we g- become aroused, it's an incredible, incredible thing to witness. And begin with things that you enjoy, that you know you like. If you really love chocolate, get a piece of chocolate. If you know you like, like a tickle stroke, get, uh, a feather, okay? And, and bring-- And, and then put on some music that, that really soothes you or arouses you, and explore. And be like, "Okay, well, what if I take this feather and start tickling my face? And then, oh, and let me see how it feels on my arm. while I'm doing that, if I put a little piece of chocolate on my tongue, and how does that..." And just starting to notice and be like, "Oh, okay, well, what feels good? Well, maybe I'll start to massage my breasts. And, and what-- Does it feel good if I really, you know, pinch my nipples?" Try that. Maybe I want it softer. Maybe I want it harder, a little rougher, you know? And then, then begin to g- um, start to play with the different folds of your yoni and, you know, maybe get out your lube. Discover what kind of lube you like. do you like? Do you like a vibrator? There are so many different vibrators, right, out there to, to, to try if that's something you wanna explore. Or you may wanna just explore with your own hands. It's all e- there, th- or with vegetables. There are a lot of friends I know that love to explore. They're like, "Oh," and they go to the vegetable aisle looking for a particular

Leah 40:30

perfect shaped

Elana 40:31

zucchini.

Leah 40:32

That carrot looks wonderful.

Elana 40:36

And just be-- And so there's a, um... And I, I riffed off of something that I learned from Erwan that I think he called Visiting Dignito- Dignitary, but I call it, um, uh, Pleasure Fit for a Goddess God a Goddess. And so I kind of riffed off of it that you s- and you can do, I mean, you could spend hours on this, you could spend 15 minutes, but it goes through really in detail all the different, with lots of different ideas of how you can self-pleasure and how you can really honor that, you know, divine, if you wanna call it, whatever your, that dignitary, that, you know, y- that sensual self within yourself, the inner lover. That's another part that I, I, I sometimes call it the inner lover. And உம். the more you'll have ideas

Love Lab Playful Practice

Elana 41:26

of like, "Oh, well maybe I'll try that." And I like to call it a love laboratory and pretend that we're, we're scientists. And so we're like, "How much pleasure can I, can I feel by just touching my arm? don't know. What if I touch my arm and like lift my pelvic floor? Oh, that feels interesting," right? And starting to connect different energy centers and sensations. So really using it as a, like an adult playground, if you will. Which

Leah 41:54

Yeah. I

Elana 41:55

I think our bodies are, certainly.

Leah 41:58

And, and I think remembering to have some erotic innocence with it all, 'cause I think sometimes as adults we take ourselves so seriously, like we forget to be playful, and this is a real invitation, these kinds of discoveries that, um, it- it's not about getting it right. You know, orgasm doesn't even have to be the goal. It's just being on a journey, allowing yourself to be creative, allowing yourself to be playful, exploring what erotic innocence might mean to you, and finding how healing that can be. I'm sure there's a lot of times in these practices where you feel so touched that you're encountering parts of yourself, and to have that be witnessed by a partner probably brings tears to a lot of experiences.

Elana 42:41

Yeah.

Willow 42:42

Leah and I just

Shame Release And Reclaiming

Willow 42:43

taught a, a women's, uh, weekend workshop called Rooted in Desire, and we had a lot of women, you know, in their, uh, in their later years in life who did them these practices, yoni witnessing, and watching their vulva plump up, and self-pleasuring, and just f- discovering the map of, of their own bodies. And, you know, some of the reports that we w- got were like, "I felt like I left those two days leaving, like, 60 years of shame behind." Like, so many layers and layers of shame, and guilt, and uncertainty, and doubt, like, keep us from discovering what our bodies are really built to do, what they're really wired for. Uh, you know, just this whole conversation and your book, Alana, is just such an incredible gift to the world because it's, uh, an opportunity to not only start getting in practice, but normalizing it and, and just, like, starting to make this whole thing of, um, you know, finding your own map to your own pleasure in your body so much more fun. And as women, um, you know, we do get more serious as we age. There's actually studies on that. And, and so this is a way to take those layers of seriousness off and start to get back into the playfulness and back into the fun, and I love that you used that word canvas at one point, Alana, because it really is like, you know, we, we are Other, another A lover's body, a partner's body, that's like your canvas that you get to paint love onto and play with, and your own body is a canvas, too. So it's such an incredible gift that you're offering. How can people find

Book Links And Free Gift

Willow 44:33

your book and you? Great. They can find... The book is now available wherever you like to get books, uh, in your local bookshop. You- they can order it for you. Bookshop.com is-- supports independent books. It's of course on Amazon, uh, "The Sure Thing: A Pleasure Practice to Revive the Spark." And you can check me out at the www.thesurethingexperiment.com. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram. And I, I just wanted to respond to what you were just saying, Dr. Willow, of, you know, the seriousness, 'cause we gotta be serious in these times, 'cause and I believe that, you know, when we release the shame, because I know that shame is used as a weapon to keep us small and to silent and to squish-squash and shame. And so we shine a light on shame. The more we can shine a light and bring it out from the shadows and right here in front to recognize, "Oh, no, there's nothing to be ashamed of." We've been conditioned to be ashamed of our bodies that serves the powers that be, the do- the powers of domination. Well, as we begin to really reclaim our, our pussy, our orgasm, our pleasure, then what comes forth is our creativity and our voice and our passion. And so then we have all this excess energy from the play, like you said, Dr. Willow, to bring to our very serious endeavors in the world, whatever they are. I'm really committed to creating a world based on kindness and love and compassion, and so there's a lot to do out there. And so this practice fuels me. So it will fuel and soften and engage and inspire whatever serious endeavors you have, you know, in the world. So it's really, I feel like it's so necessary for so many reasons for especially women, I mean, for all people, but especially women, to start prioritizing pleasure, because that, first of all, will make it so much more fun and will really open us up beyond what we are available, what we know now to be our genius and our, um, resource and, and, and how we are able to affect change in the world.

Leah 46:59

Well, and not only that, but it helps us live longer, it increases our immune system, it's good for our health.

Elana 47:04

sleep better, helps helps our skin, helps right.

Leah 47:09

That's and ple- pleasure's affordable. It doesn't cost you much, if anything. It's a renewable resource in your body, and it balances the, the stuff of life that's hard. We're all gonna be dealing with hardship. So when you can tap into your pleasure, you give yourself reprieve, and you can help lift your weary soul, 'cause damn does our soul get weary. So carry on the pleasure torch. Thank you so much,

Elana 47:36

Let's go. go I know

Leah 47:38

you have a free gift Yeah.

Elana 47:40

Oh, I do. I have a free gift, and I wanted to say that if you practice, like anything we practice, like if you have a meditation practice, then you're able to kind of notice what your mind's doing. If you have a pleasure practice, then during those hardship times that you were just talking about, Leah, you can also open this channel of pleasure simultaneously. So I really wanna encourage people, there's so many benefits. There's so many benefits. Yes, and I wanna gift you all with a guided journey into your wild, sensual self. I, I mentioned that part of... I, I have a concept I call our inner pantheon, just like in the Roman and Greek gods, we have c- an inner pantheon, all the parts of ourselves, right? So in each of us is a wild, sensual self, and so I've created... There's a bunch of guided journeys in the book, but I've recorded one of them, and that's, uh, that'll be available to your listeners, and to really connect and deepen with this part of you that really knows what they want, that has desire, and that has a real large appetite, you know, for, for passion and sensation. And so

Leah 48:49

Uh, and is this a, a PDF? Is it a video? Is it an audio?

Elana 48:53

an audio. It's an

Leah 48:54

audio. Great. Great. Well, wonderful. Thank you so much. We will be sure to have that free gift in the show note, so head on over to the website. And thanks so much for spending some time with us today

Elana 49:06

Oh, it was really, really wonderful. Thank you so much. So many, so many good e- feelings throughout my body in talking to the both of you. Really appreciate

Leah 49:15

it Great. Avana all right, our show is not over, y'all. You know what to do. Stay tuned 'cause The Dish is coming up next

Announcer 49:24

Now

The Dish

Announcer 49:25

our favorite part, the dish

Leah 49:30

Another woman on the pleasure path speaking to the masses, getting the good word out. You gotta love it

Willow 49:38

You can't have too many of them. I mean, it's, uh, it's an example. You know, Alana's just a beautiful example of, of completely transforming your life with devotion to, uh, pleasure. You know? It's really, really just such a game changer. And, you know, what, what I really loved about what she was speaking to is just creating something that is consistent. I think that we all sort of have intentions to do that, especially long-term partnerships. It's like, okay, yeah, we talk about that. We do it for, like, a month, maybe two, and then it falls off the wagon.

Leah 50:18

we do it once or twice.

Willow 50:20

Yeah, or we do it once or twice here and there. But, like, to actually be like, okay, every Wednesday at 2:00, or whatever the date and time is, it's just, it's in your calendar. It's non-negotiable. It's just the thing that is happening. So I think that that, um, really is, is so powerful and makes such a big difference in long-term relationships.

Leah 50:43

I think the key too with anything that you wanna make gains on is, uh, I've been listening to the Atomic Habits, um, I was just listening to it earlier today, and there's really something powerful about habit stacking and really capitalizing on the reward for doing this thing that you know is important to you, but you need some help with the consistency. So, like, having a cue that like, like they have a cue, they drop their kid off at, uh, was it soccer? No, it was drum, drum lessons, and so it's on the schedule. The cue is drum lessons, you know, and then you think about the reward after. So, uh, you know, one of the things that I'm trying to work with in my own is how can I habit stack in the morning so that I'm consistent? 'Cause some things we don't feel like doing. You can't really wait to feel like sex, because if you're doing that, your partner also has to feel like sex, and the likelihood of two people being in the mood at the same time when you've been together for a long time, the statistics aren't great. You have to like... You can't rely on

Willow 51:52

That's why you have to go on vacation so you have

Leah 51:56

They can't wait to go on vacation either, 'cause a lot of people only go on vacation once a year, you

Willow 52:01

I

Leah 52:02

So you've gotta come up with like, I think short-term rewards and long-term rewards to get the gains that you want

Willow 52:10

Yeah. Well, I mean, hopefully the reward of doing a weekly practice is that you feel more connected and to yourself and your partner. Um, but if you need an extra reward on top of that, then whatever reward you need, you know, in order to get yourself to devote to that, um, then you should give yourself that

Leah 52:30

Yeah, I mean, for most people that's gonna be pleasure. You're gonna get relief. You're gonna have a moment of respite. You're gonna be able to set down some chaos and pick up some relaxation, and we all would benefit from that. So you guys, what are you doing listening to us still? Go do your practice. Whether it's a solo Sure or whether it's a, um, what'd she call it? The Sure thing? Um, a Sure thing. I actually really love that, a Sure thing.

Willow 52:56

That's a great title. It's a great name for it

Leah 53:00

So do your Sure thing practice and go buy the book Sure Thing. And,

Willow 53:04

us how, and tell us how your practice went.

Leah 53:07

Brilliant. Okay.

Willow 53:08

Much love. Ciao

Announcer 53:10

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together