Guy Shahar: Is This Tantra's Most Powerful Practice? | #196

There's a place inside your body that holds your trauma, your grief, your numbness, and your most profound pleasure — and most people go their entire lives without ever being touched there. Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown sit down with colleague  Guy Shahar, originator of Tantra Speed Date  for the first-ever dedicated conversation on Sacred Spot Massage ritual — the Tantric practice that has been quietly transforming people's sex lives, healing childhood sexual trauma, and cracking open long-shut-down bodies for over 40 years. From Guy's accidental teenage discovery of Charles Muir's work via a mail-order VHS tape, to Leah's revelation through a bongo drummer's forgotten Tantra book, to Willow's journey from Taoist Sexology into the world of Tantric Sacred Spot Rituals, this episode is raw, personal, and full of the kind of real talk you will not find anywhere else. Whether you are brand new to Tantra or have been practicing for years, this conversation will change the way you think about touch, trust, healing, and what your body is actually capable of.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

• What Sacred Spot Massage actually is and why it is fundamentally different from G-spot stimulation
• Why separating the roles of giver and receiver makes you profoundly better at both
• The ritual elements that make this practice sacred and why they matter more than you think
• What surfaces in the body during Sacred Spot Massage and why that is exactly the point
• Guy's deeply honest account of learning to receive touch after years of using giving as protection
• The client session that cracked Guy open and permanently changed how he understood trust
• Why love — not technique, not orgasm is the active ingredient in this practice
• How Leah healed years of childhood sexual trauma through consistent Sacred Spot work
• Upcoming Sacred Spot workshops and retreats open to singles and couples in New York, Phoenix, and Vermont

LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND ON THE WEBSITE: https://www.sexreimagined.com/blog/sacred-spot-massage-tantric-healing 

The Sacred Spot Weekend | July 17-19, 2026 in NYC | Join Leah & Guy Shahar to learn the Tantric Sacred Spot Ritual Sequence! Click Here to Register. 

Erotic Polarity Online Masterclass - Join us July 29th for a live masterclass on zoom. Starts at 4pm Pacific / 7pm Eastern. Register for $33 HERE (free limited replay window available)

AWAKEN AROUSAL OIL LUBRICANT | Reach new levels of intimacy with our arousal oil, formulated for the female body. Once applied, this topical oil works with your body to enhance sensation and "o's," helping you reach states of euphoric pleasure.

Transcript

E.196 | Guy Shahar 3.0 | FINAL

Willow 0:05

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast. I'm Dr. Willow Brown. I'm here with Leah Piper. We are your co-hosts, and today we are gonna be diving into a very near and dear topic to us and our dear friend, Guy Shahar. There is a place inside of everybody's body that holds the key to healing, awakening, and profound pleasure, but nobody ever taught us about that. So that's exactly what we're talking about today.

Leah 0:36

So tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Guy Shahar and Sacred Spot Massage Ritual.

0:42

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show

Why Sacred Spot Matters

Leah 0:51

Welcome, Guy

Guy 0:53

Thanks for having me on the show

Leah 0:56

Well, this is, a conversation I've been wanting to have for a long time, and I was realizing the other day that I don't think we have ever done a dedicated episode to just talking about Sacred Spot Massage ritual. And for those of you listening who've never heard of that, it's probably the most popular Tantric ritual that's the cornerstone of most Tantra teachers' curriculum. And of course, there's so many different rituals under the sun when it comes to Tantra, but this one has had a ton of buzz and a lot of transformational experiences attached to it for, like, the last 30, 40 years. And all of us, Willow, Guy, myself, have been deeply involved in the practice because we've all trained under, uh, Ch- uh, Charles Muir, who is the originator of Sacred Spot Massage. And so I wanted to sit down and kinda have a roundtable discussion about how it's affected our personal lives and the lives of our students, and what it was like when we first stumbled into its magic. So Guy, how about we start with you. When was the first time you heard about Sacred Spot Massage, and how was it different from what you heard about G-spot massage? Were the two ever crossovers with each other?

Guy’s Teen VHS Discovery

Guy 2:10

I don't think I ever knew that there was a, uh, a difference or really knew about any of the spots, but I believe that my first exposure to it, I think I must have been 15 or 16, and, uh, and this is actually kind of how I discovered the work of Charles Muir without actually knowing that I was discovering the work of Charles Muir. But when I was about 15 or 16, they had, uh, I think it was called Columbia House. They had this company that would send you like videos, like they were like VHS tapes, and like they'd send you like 15 for a dollar. And, and so I, I had gotten some of those, sent to, to, to, uh, to our apartment. and, uh, and you know, you pick a few that you like, and out of this catalog that they would send you in the mail. And, you know, I picked the ones that I wanted, and I still had a few left. So I'm like, "Okay, well, what else do I want for my 15 videos?" And I'm kinda, kinda going through it and, and I saw this, video, I don't remember the exact title, but it was like The Secrets of, you know, Sexual Ecstasy or something like that. And, and it had the, the photo on the cover and I'm like, "Well, this sounds interesting." So I, so I sent away for it as part of the, as part of the 15 videos for a dollar. And of course, I watch- actually ended up watching that first before I watched all the other ones. And I saw the whole thing and I guess learned a little bit about, you know, sacred spot massage. I just thought it looked like a cool video and, hey, who doesn't wanna be better at sex?

Willow 3:38

Now, was that Charles' video?

Guy 3:41

So, so, um, when you fast-forward... Now, let's say I watched it and I totally forgot about it. And then you fast-forward to, uh, in my 30s when I discovered the work of Charles and I did the beginners weekend, and then I started doing all the teacher trainings. Um, when I was doing the teacher trainings, uh, as I kinda got more involved in it, I was also helping to support the event. And you know, when you're supporting the event, Charles has his store where he sells his flags and his, you know, materials and his DVDs. And so there were all these different DVDs that he's made throughout the years, and there I am in the store and somebody's like, "Oh, tell me about this one." And I'm pulling up the DVD and I pull up the cover and it's-- And I'm like, "I remember this cover." Like, "I remember this." Like when I got it, it was a VHS yet it wasn't a DVD when I got it, but, but it was a VHS. But I- when I saw the cover, like it instantly, it was like I've seen this cover before. And I went back and I was like, "Yeah, this is that thing that I ordered when I was 15 or 16." Like, I didn't know that that was Charles when I started working with it because I'd completely forgotten about it. But when I had that moment, I was like, "Oh, Charles was kind of my teacher before he was my teacher."

Leah 4:53

That's

Guy 4:54

Isn't that interesting?

Willow 4:55

Now, did you ever practice the sacred spot from age

Guy 4:59

From the video?

Willow 5:00

until you got to his classes? Did you remember doing that?

Guy 5:05

I was not really very popular with women back then, so, you know. I was like, "Excuse me, miss," you know, "Could I put my hand down, could I put my hand down your pants and try this thing I saw in the video?" You know, like, doesn't quite work that way

Leah 5:19

So, okay. I, there's two, there was two videos, um, that had very similar titles. One was a compilation of teachers. One was just that ch- uh, video that Charles produced, but they had similar names. The one that was a compilation of teachers was Ancient Secrets to Ecstasy. Then the one that Charles produced was Female Secrets to Sexual Ecstasy. Do you remember which one it was? Like, was it a burgundy cover or was it the blue cover?

Guy 5:47

It was kind of gold, so, so maybe it was a, maybe it was a compilation one.

Leah 5:52

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Guy 5:54

But, you know, he-- I think he shows, he shows footage of it in one of the beginners, or he was doing that, and I remember when I watched the footage, I'm like, "I think I've seen this before." But it wasn't until, like, I saw the DVD cover, I'm like, "I've seen this,

Willow 6:08

Ah, yeah

Guy 6:09

and there I was in the store, like, selling it, so it's so funny

Leah 6:13

That's really,

Leah’s Tantra Origin Story

Leah 6:14

that's really great. It's interesting because I have a similar story. I, um, I was 17, 18 years old. I was dating this older bongo drummer, and he had Charles and Caroline's book. So when we broke up, I didn't know he had the book. He just left all of his artwork and his books at my place. And so I discovered this book, Tantra: The Art of Conscious Loving, which is Charles and Caroline's book, and I read this book. And, like, the light bulbs are going off. So many things, like, God, if I had only known what we were doing when we were doing it. Like, I had no idea that half the things we were doing in our sexual connection was, like, a method or a ritual or a technique. And had I known, I felt like it, maybe I c- would've shown up mo- different in the relationship.

Willow 7:00

you could have kept the bongo drummer a

Leah 7:02

Maybe the bongo dr- yeah, I mean, who knows? So then I... Those fucking bongo drummers. I never dated a bongo drummer again. I then went to guitarists. Uh, but he,

Willow 7:15

safer option

Leah 7:17

I would take that book, and I was so, w- I was so enthralled with it that I would give it to every other new boyfriend to read it so that it could be this shared experience. And, a friend of mine was like, "Leah, you're obsessed with Tantra. You should see if there are teachers teaching Tantra." And this is, like, four years later. And so I'm going onto the internet, and by this time my library had grown, and all these other teachers I was finding, and this was also when the internet was new, all the people I was finding online had studied with Charles and Caroline. And since that was the first book I ever read, it kinda made sense that I would study with them first.

Guy 7:52

Wow

Leah 7:53

It stumbles upon you in your teenage years, and the next thing you know, a few years later, it, uh, it continues to change your life. What

Willow Meets Charles

Leah 8:00

about you, Willow? When, when did you first hear about Tantra?

Willow 8:03

Um, I mean, I was teaching Taoist sexology for so long before I started, you know, going down the Tantra rabbit hole. But I interviewed Charles for m- one of my summits. I think it was my second summit that I ever did a long, long, long, long time ago. And, um, it was through Ixchel Sandviel. Do you remember

Leah 8:25

Yeah, of course

Willow 8:27

another one of us, another student of Charles. And so she was like: "Oh, you should just..." You know, I interviewed her for my summit, and she was like: "Oh, you should get Charles on here. I'll, I'll reach out to him for you." So he said yes. He hopped on the s- the show, and, um, and he, he was talking about Sacred Spot. That's what he basically presented on on that summit. So that was sort of my first intro to Sacred Spot. However, previous to having him on my show, which he then invited me into the, you know, into the community and to come to the beginner's weekend and bring my partner and the whole nine yards. You know, he's like: "I'll give you a, a discount." He was always, you know, helping people out and bringing people in, big open heart. And, um, but he used to come... I was working at a, um, medical clinic with a bunch of different kinds of doctors, chiros and acus and MDs and stuff, and he used to come and do, um, you know, work weekend workshops and trainings with Mantak Chia there.

Leah 9:27

No, they were intro evenings. They were never a long training, but they were like, they'd have these collaboration talks for an evening

Willow 9:35

Yeah. So they were doing that at the Chi Center, which I actually never went to because of the relationship that I was in. And it was just like, you know, it was too much to deal with the repercussion of what that relationship would have, you know, had to say about it. And I, and I also had, at that point in my journey, I had a big sort of like, "I already know. I already know everything." And so I didn't have that curious mind, so I actually didn't go, and I always regretted that

Leah 10:07

arrogance of youth.

Willow 10:09

Yeah, exactly

First Weekend Breakthroughs

Leah 10:10

Um, okay, so then what was like, you're at your first, I'm assuming weekend workshop, or maybe you discovered it somewhere else, but when you saw the impact of Sacred Spot massage, do you remember it? Like, in the seminars there was always like the morning, Sunday morning,

Willow 10:26

Sunday morning. I mean, that

Leah 10:27

would go do it on a Saturday night after class. They would learn about it, and then they would take the tools, and they would create this experience for a partner, whether they were a single or a couple. A lot of singles ended up opting in and picking a stranger, you know, to have this experience. And then of course there were couples who had a built-in partner. But do y'all remember your first Sunday morning?

Willow 10:49

Yeah. Sunday mornings were like candy for me. That was my favorite part. Everyone sharing and emoting and like having ahas and epiphanies and like everything that they were really, learning about their, their psyches and their spirit through their bodies was just always so fun to listen to. And I remember like, I think that first weekend, my sharer was with another partner who also had some resistance to the whole tantric path. But, but through that sacred spot massage, he, he did start to open up and see a lot more possibility, with that practice. And then I felt like finally I'm being seen and I'm being met for the first time in this relationship, which at that point I think had been like five, four or five years already, so.

Leah 11:39

I remember your, your Sunday seeing you and your partner, and the way they shared had the whole room, like, riveted. They were, like, hanging on every word. And you could see the emotion in Willow, like so much tenderness, feeling, like, really seen. And then your partner would just... You could-- He was, I think if I recall correctly, he described, like, kind of being challenged in the beginning, but then he rise to the occasion, and it was like this hero's journey that he had. And um, you both just spoke so beautifully. I know, like, and it wasn't a dry eye in the room. What about you, guy?

Guy 12:18

I don't-- I was just thinking about that. I don't remember my beginner's weekend or what, uh, or who I practiced with or how that all panned out. Um, there's been so many beginner's weekends and trainings and things since then, so I wish I did.

Leah 12:32

But do you remember being impacted by anyone's share?

Guy 12:38

I mean, at this point, I guess that would've been 13 years ago. Um, I, I think all the shares always ve- it's a very impactful moment when people first experience this, um, this practice. I, I remember that my, my first experience is I did the weekend and like I, I had one of these experiences where I knew instantly I'm signing up for te- teacher training.

Leah 13:02

Oh, really?

Guy 13:02

know? Like, it was like, of course I'm gonna, I'm gonna-- This was awesome, of course I'm gonna do the teacher training. There wasn't even a question, right? So that was kind of what, what I took, took out of it, you know? And I was on a path of exploring with many different teachers and different modalities, so like, of course I was gonna take this teacher training either way,

Leah 13:21

Yeah, it all lined up. I remember it was, I remember walking into the classroom and going, "Oh, I'm home." Like, this is, these people speak my language. And I was also scared shitless 'cause I didn't know what was gonna happen. Like, am I walking into this crazy lions' den and everyone's gonna get naked within the first hour? And that was gonna freak me out. So once I realized that I was safe, and then the conversations I was having with the other students, it was like, "Oh, the, I've been craving this my whole life to be able to talk about this," and feeling like I was meeting people who were asking the same kinds of questions about love and intimacy and God as I was. And so there was a real feeling of homecoming.

Leah’s Single Journey

Leah 14:04

And I was a single, and I was in a relationship at the time, but he was broke, and so he wasn't there with me. And I was kinda at that point in the relationship where I was like, "I'm not paying for this." Like, "You've gotta get your shit together, and either you're in or you're out." So I did, I went with no expectation of, like, doing any of the practices, and I don't think I fully realized that there was an option on Saturday night to have this experience as a single. And I remember going around the puja, which for those of you who don't know, you should definitely go take a Tantra Speed Date, experience if you're single, because this exercise is really kind of replicated and then refined. in Tantra Speed Date, if you've listened to our other episodes, Guy is the creator of that, and Willow's one of the, facilitators. Anyways, I was going through one of those meditations that we call a puja, and I was just really connecting with a number of the men, single men that were in the group. Like, really feeling I could trust this person. I feel safe with this person. I see this person's soul. There was a feeling of like, "Oh, I would actually pick..." I had at least three people I could choose that I knew I could have had a really amazing experience with. But because I was in this other relationship I didn't allow myself to experience the ritual. And I-- there was something really hungry in me. There was a deep conscious and also unconscious healing that I knew I needed, that I knew this ritual was the answer to. And that, that came home to me so clearly at that weekend, that there was something inside of myself that I felt like was driving me my whole life, and I was gonna get the answer through this practice. So I gave the practice to myself, but I was listening to the single share on Sunday, and I was listening to the breakthroughs that they had with these perfect strangers. I was listening to their hearts open, to the tears fall, to the trust they created with each other, to the depth of intimacy that they were able to experience with someone they didn't even know. And it blew apart all my preconceived assumptions of what you needed in order to trust the opposite sex to have a profound, intimate experience. Like, all the categories and all the things that had to be established in order for something special to occur. And I just wanted so badly what they had discovered. So I went home, I broke up with my boyfriend, and then I booked the San Diego workshop, It was the next event in California, and then I chose somebody to do the homework with out of just really answering this deep calling, you know, for healing and awakening

Willow 16:55

And then how was your first... Yeah

Leah 16:58

so it was, it was sweet. It was with a younger guy. I, you know, I really was... I had such a strong impression of these other three guys in Santa Cruz. They were all a little older, so I felt like they could hold, you know, a part of me with a little more weight than this younger gentleman, who didn't quite have the gravitas, I think, that I sort of was really wanting to anchor into. But it was, you know, a lovely experience and it wasn't filled with profound transformation. But it was lovely all the same. And I, and it just kind of stoked the fire that I knew there was a lot more. And I actually signed up for the weekend seminar knowing that I was going to the teacher training. I only did the weekend seminar because it was a prerequisite. So then once I got to the teacher training, and we had four more assignments, and this time it wasn't women's choosing as a single. At the weekend seminar, it's a little bit, it feels a little safer because the women choose, where as you both know, at the teacher training you pull a tarot card and you find your perfect partner with all of its amazing lessons, uh, within those cards. And a lot of things, you know, continued to, um, get unpacked

Ongoing Healing and Trauma

Leah 18:13

for me. And then of course, Charles and I ended up in a relationship, so I was regularly getting sacred spot massage, and then it was like a full on three to six years of some very deep transformational healing work that helped me resolve a lot of childhood sexual trauma

Willow 18:30

Mm-hmm. So powerful. It's just such incredible, um, testament to, to the work when you do it consistently and regularly, like how quickly the transformation can happen. I mean, the level of sexual trauma that you experienced as a kid for a long period of time wasn't just a one-time thing. Like, you moved through that, like three to six years, that's pretty short time. You know, some people spend their entire lifetimes chasing that healing and never get it because as we know, the issues are in the tissues, and until we get into the tissues and start to clear that trauma from inside the soma, it doesn't... It's, you know, it's always got a little hold on you.

Tantra Loft Practice Nights

Willow 19:17

And now, Guy, you, you lead regular sacred spot massages at the Tantra Loft in New York. So I'm guessing that a lot of people who are coming to that on a regular basis, they've done plenty of it. But I'm curious, like what's still unfolding? What's still awakening for them? What kind of healing is still happening after doing it for regular long periods of time?

Guy 19:43

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we, we hold a sacred spot practice night here monthly. And, I think it is the experience of healing and of being held in community. we get-- 'Cause, you know, in, in the beginner's weekend, and in the teacher trainings, like you don't actually do the full practice in the room. You get your partners, like Leah was saying, and then, and then you go to your, you know, hot- somebody's hotel room, and you do the practice in private. So on the sacred spot practice nights, we all do it in the same room together with each other, next to each other. So it's a more communal experience because you can hear your friends and you can... You're, you know, we're all in the same room. Sometimes something funny happens and we're all laughing together, whatever it is. And, uh, and by the end of the night, nobody wants to leave 'cause it feels like, you know, very yummy and juicy in there. And I think that the experience of touching another human with, with a loving and clear intention, and then doing that, having pairs all over the place doing that together at the same time has great power and tremendous power to, not just to heal an individual, but to heal, a group, a society, right? So I think that that has been very powerful, and it's been, it's been our favorite thing that we do here out of all the events that happen

Leah 21:08

Oh, really? That's really sweet. Who is it for? Because I know it's not just open to the public

Guy 21:12

Mm-hmm. So it's for trained practitioners, and there's a conversation to see if someone has enough training. If, if, if someone has attended at least one 10-day CTE training with Charles, then they can come. If they haven't or they've attended something equivalent, like not through Charles, then, you know, we'll have a conversation and see if it makes sense for them to be here.

Leah 21:35

Yeah. That's really, really sweet.

What the Ritual Practice Is

Leah 21:37

I think we should talk a little bit about what is this ritual that we're talking about. And I think one of the most profound elements of the ritual is that you're separating the roles of giver and receiver. So it's not a two-way exchange. It is one person practicing the skills and the techniques and the ways of being of a giver. So they're responsible for holding presence, they're responsible for being attuned to the person that they're working with, they're responsible for mastering the techniques of touch and the energetics of energy transmission, holding the field of love, coming from a place of, meeting someone where they're at and allowing that person's body to take a ride. Holding space without an agenda, so it's not just about, "Okay, let me produce an orgasm for this person." It's about, "Let me just be here with my loving touch and see what happens." And oftentimes when you have someone pouring so much love into you as the receiver, whatever isn't love has an opportunity to come i- up to the surface and be purified. And so a lot of people, when they get touched consciously, especially for the first time, you know, tears arise. There's a tenderness. There's like, "Someone is giving me such undivided attention." And you don't know why you're crying, but suddenly you've got, you're feeling tears of grief or sadness. And then another layer comes up, and maybe it's giggles and laughter and innocence. And then another layer comes up, and maybe it's, you know, a deep resounding pleasure. And then maybe another layer. And it just kind of these layers just start to peel back. And for the receiver, their job is to treat this experience like a meditation, that their job is to pay attention, to breathe, to make sound, and study the sensations in their body, and allow those sensations to wash over them, and to keep a curious mind as they continue to feel and to awaken. And, and so you have to really learn how to meet that with a lot of self-compassion, b- because what we are massaging is, an area that most people would, would associate as the G-spot. men have a G-spot, women have a G-spot. And as one is massaging this with one's fingers, this area of the G-spot and within that erectile tissue is an energetic spot that, we might call like an acupressure meridian that holds the psyche of the chakra itself, which is why a lot of people have emotions, and then those emotions turn into tremendous, incredible pleasure. Uh, which i- because we're massaging this part of the front wall of the vagina, which is a little bit different than just clitoral massage, the orgasms have different sensation. And then there's another area inside of a man, which is inside of the root chakra, which is inside the anal cavity, that when massaged is different than just an ejaculatory orgasm. So that's my way of summing it up. Would either of you add, you know, what else would you add to what you see as sacred spot massage and how it's unique to other sexual practices?

Willow 24:55

Go for it, Guy

Guy 24:57

Well, I think one is that you've keyed in on is that it is a practice, right? It's not like, oh, we're gonna do this as a foreplay or, you know. Um, it's a, it's a practice, and I think one of the keys is separating out the giver and the receiver, right? If you're gonna, if you're gonna learn how to do this, uh, well, you have to learn how to give, you have to learn how to receive. So it's an excellent tool for learning because y- most, most sex that people are having, you're giving and receiving simultaneously. And, uh, it's very rare that someone actually learns how to have sex or how to work with sexual energy in a way that isn't simultaneously giving and receiving. So when you can break it down and say, "Okay, I'm gonna focus all of my attention on giving to one person," now you can actually learn and become a good giver, right? So then when you're in a sexual situation, your giving skills are great, and then you can also practice being a receiver when somebody's giving to you. And then when you're receiving from someone, that actually also makes you a good giver 'cause you're receiving the giving that they're giving and you're like, "Oh, I like this. I don't like this," and that helps you calibrate and attune, and then those receiving skills make you better in the bedroom as well when you're giving and receiving at the same time. So breaking them down and learning them separately, uh, in a, in the form of a practice, and I think that it's brilliant that it's a practice because like, oh, I don't have to do this with my romantic partner. We can do this as practice buddies. We can do this as I wanna learn and I wanna become a better giver and you wanna receive and or we vice versa and we can swap, swap directions, whatever you wanna do. But it enables you to learn and to practice and, and it's not a romantic thing, right? It's a way to take, take the connection and the intimacy and the sexuality of it and say, "Oh, this is okay and it's different from a romantic thing. I don't have to be romantically involved with someone to receive a sacred spot session from them or to give a sacred spot session with them, and I'm learning."

Willow 26:55

Mm-hmm.

Learning To Receive

Willow 26:56

Yeah, I love that you're highlighting that giver/receiver, 'cause I mean, I've been a body worker for a couple decades now, and you know, when you're in massage school, you have to receive massage in order to learn what feels good on my neck and shoulders. "Oh, what are you doing back there? I like what you're doing. I wanna learn how to do that." That makes you a better giver. So, um, I think that-- And I also, you know, wanna say, like, generally speaking, everyone's not very good at receiving, but particularly men are not great at receiving. And so to open up this platform and to open this up as a, like, as a container, a practice that you step into, it really, um, is a phenomenal, powerful way for men to learn how to receive and then, of course, in turn, they become better givers. I've had so many men receive sacred spot from me alone or me and another woman, and just be in tears of relief and gratitude and like, "Wow, this is what it means to receive? Oh my God, like, I now know what that means viscerally in my body." And it's just so beautiful to witness the, the-- like, somebody really experiencing all of what their body was built to experience.

Sacred Spot Sensations

Willow 28:17

Um, you know, a lotta, a lotta times when, people are receiving sacred spot for the first time, that energetic acupuncture or acupressure. It's not a-- technically, it's not an acupuncture point. It's more of... But it kind of feels like an acupuncture point. It's got, like, a little indentation. It's got, like, a little softness to it, and it's about three-quarters of the way back along the G-spot. So your finger kind of plops right into this spot, and for a lot of, receivers, it, it can feel numb. It can feel like nothing at all. It can feel like shards of glass. It can feel like incredible pleasure. It can feel like it makes you wanna go pee. Like, it can have all these different sensations, and depending on what your sexual history has been, if there's been trauma or you've just never had good sex, or you've had tons of good sex, you might feel different sensations based on, you know, where y-you've been on your journey so far with sexuality. Like, even, even beyond sex and sexual trauma, like, how do I feel about my body? How do I feel about being, in the feminine role? How do I feel about being in the masculine role? There's all these different layers of sexuality that we don't think of as sexuality, but it's, it goes beyond. It's like, uh, uh, who, who am I even as a soul, as a person, you know? Like, am I, am I a confident person, or am I, you know, really insecure as a person? All of those things can come up and show up and move out through sacred spot massage. Basically, when we're touching that point along the G-spot, you know, the G-spot is a, is a length, and so it's on that point back there, about three-quarters of the way back. Again, We are touching the second chakra, Svadhisthana, the h- the home of the true self, you know? So when we're touching that place inside, we're awakening somebody's most authentic, truest self, AKA essence. And coming from that Taoist perspective of sexual energy meaning Jing Qi, and Jing Qi meaning essence, all of those things meaning the same thing. Like when I first came to this as a practice, having had all of that Taoist foundation behind me, it was just like click, click, click. You know? It made perfect sense.

Ritual Makes It Sacred

Leah 30:41

I think also what you're speaking to, um, what you're naming is what's, I think, unique about Tantra and specifically this practice, is it does have a sacred vibration as the foundation of the practice itself. I think that's why the word ritual is connected to it, is because it feels special and ritualistic. There are things you do to make it special intentionally. That could be in beautifying the space, maybe lighting candles or, or incense, having intentions prepared, making the celestial palette lovely and nice. You know, you, you do things, you dim the lighting. you do things that make it out of the ordinary from a different sexual experience. it really sends a lovely message to the receiver that you matter. You're worth making something special for. And it really immediately sets the tone for the experience. I think it brings a sense of tenderness and a deeper connection to the practice. And I think many people are actually hungry for something that feels spiritual that can be connected to the bedroom. Because most of us haven't had an example or a tradition or a reason to bring, like, spirituality and sex into the same room together. I think that's really answering a very deep desire that many people can't put a name to until they start studying this for the first time, which is why I think things like Sacred Spot Massage provide a higher percentage of transcendent experiences to people's reality through the practice itself. There's just a feeling of specialness, and people have all sorts of different belief systems that they can weave into their, their practice, and even if you don't relate to being a spiritual person, there's something that still feels like something extra sweet, something that feels, like, connected to nature. Like, this thing that feels bigger than you is still present in the experience, which is why I think it makes it, uh, a unique thing that people don't know they crave it until suddenly they experience it and they're like, "This, this is what I've been longing for."

Willow 33:10

I had that experience you were speaking to, Leah, of going to the beginner's weekend and being like, "I'm home." I had that in my level one. I was like, "I am right where I need to be in the world." Like, this is-- Which I think was, like, three years later after my beginner's weekend or two or something like

Practice And Attunement

Willow 33:29

that. So, you know, uh, that's another thing to keep in mind is like, this is-- It is a practice. It's ongoing. You keep go- coming back home to it, and you keep learning more about yourself as a giver, as a receiver. I feel like nothing will train you to be better attuned to your partner than Sacred Spot Massage. Like, it's just, you have to be paying attention to what's going on with the person that you're working on, whether you're working anally with a man or vaginally with a woman. And, I also do pelvic floor release work, which is quite different than the Sacred Spot Massage ritual. It's, a lot more, therapeutic, and we're talking to the tissues, and we're basically unraveling all these stories that got stuck inside of the vaginal canal and the vaginal wall. What I love about the difference between these two is the Sacred Spot Massage, you know, there's a lot more encouragement to breathe and to sound and, and to not get into a bunch of like, "Well, how long has that been there?" And, and, you know, "What is it related to?" And, you know, not really unravel a bunch of story. I think both are super important at different points in the journey. And so, you know, even being attuned to, to that, like what a part- what a woman needs at, at that point in her journey of healing, or man for that matter.

Leah 34:52

G- Guy, could you speak to a little bit of, like, the vulnerability that might be unique to this practice?

Willow 34:59

For a man

Leah 35:01

Yeah, men or whichever

Willow 35:02

Or women or both

Guy 35:04

well, I mean, I, uh, I can speak from the man's point of view, uh, because up until now I've spent the majority of my life as a man. Um

Leah 35:14

Uh, yeah

Men Receiving Vulnerability

Guy 35:16

you know, for me, I-- it was very challenging for me to receive sacred spot from a woman. I, I think because, um, you know, with my, with, with my history, of trauma, it was very hard for me to, to let any woman touch me in the bedroom. I had to be the giver. I had to be the controller of the touch, because I was very particular about how I could be touched. And I didn't feel that many, many women had the level of attunement to be able to feel how it was okay to touch me and how it wasn't,

Leah 35:50

Hmm

Guy 35:50

strange thing for a man to say, because we j- we just w- want women to touch us as much as possible all the time. Um, but I was very particular about the touch, and so my strategy for dealing with this situation is that I just made myself the giver. "Well, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna focus on being the best giver I can be, and if I'm the one always giving pleasure, then I don't have to receive." Right? And, and I'm not saying that I made this agreement consciously. It's just I wasn't... I just, I don't want people touching me, you know? I just like, "You, you don't know how to touch me. Don't touch me." So I was like, "I'm gonna be the toucher, you're gonna be the touch-ee." And I remember that like, uh... And, and this was great because, 'cause it gave me wonderful skills in the bedroom, and women would enjoy their time with me. And, uh, and what would happen is, like, anytime they would try to touch me, like I would-- I was smooth, and I'd find a way to kinda just gently redirect it back to them and just give them so much more pleasure. They completely forgot that a moment ago they were trying to give me, give some pleasure back, if you will, and just made it about them, made it about them, made it about them. So when, when I started coming to, when I did the teacher training in particular, it was a challenge to like, now I gotta lay down and let this other woman touch me and, and like of course there's, there's verbal and you say, "Hey, I want this. I don't want that. Please do this. Use a lighter stroke. Use a..." You know, like you... There, we, there's an adjustment in the communication process. Nobody's gonna touch you in a way that you don't want them to touch you. but it can be very vulnerable as a man who is used to being the doer to just relax and let a woman work her magic. Took me a long time to get to that place where I'm just gonna be okay, letting, letting her touch me, and then, you know, as I kept doing the trainings, it got a little bit easier, but still not 100% 'cause, because also, like, that means that you have to trust a woman. And, you know, if you're a guy that has had a lot of early trauma surrounding women or a lot of rejection wounding, it's really hard to trust women. Because let me tell you something you might not be aware of: women can be cruel,

Willow 37:54

Mm-hmm.

Guy 37:55

especially girls when you're in school. They can be very, very cruel and, uh, uh-

Leah 38:02

resentful wives that have been around for a long time. You know? There's a lot... Yeah

Guy 38:08

There's a lot in there that comes to us as men and as boys that I don't think people realize that is a great deal of what makes our makeup and who we are. It certainly did for me. I was very angry at women for a very, very long time because of how I was treated as a, as a child, right? And so when I look back and see how angry I was and I'm like, "Oh, but look how these girls treated you in school. Like, how could you grow up and not be angry at women because of, because of what happened over here?" And then you go out and then women experience you as angry and they're like, "The problem is men. Men are just awful, angry people." It's like, well, you know, look at the-- If you look, you look at the experiences, you'd be like, "This behavior makes sense." So I had to work on myself to, um, to get rid of that, and then only when I got rid of that could I even begin to try to trust a woman, because my experience of women is that they're cruel and they will destroy you at every chance that they get emotionally.

Leah 39:04

Wow

Guy 39:05

horrible women against me in school, public humiliation. Uh, it's... Had, I, I got a lot of stuff in school.

Willow 39:13

Hmm.

Leah 39:13

Oh,

Trust Breakthrough Session

Guy 39:14

so it took me time and many, many sessions to trust, and actually what enabled me to become a better receiver was when I started, uh, working as a Daka and giving professional sessions, right? And working with many clients, and everybody's body is very different. And I remember, um, I had this very, very fascinating experience with trust in one of my sessions. It was relatively early in my career as a Daka and, you know, like I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of people now, but this was kinda early on. Maybe I'd only worked with about 30 or 40 clients. And I'm working with this woman and, uh, you know, uh, and I'm aware of my past and that I was angry at women and, and, and la-di-da. And, and then she kind of stops in the middle of the session and, and she says, uh, and she says, "I have to stop, I have to stop." I'm like, "Okay, what?" And she said, she said to me, um, she said, she says, "I don't trust you." You know? And, and so I like, I was taking a-- like nobody ever said that. Like, we're there and she's naked and I'm, you know, and I'm showing up in a very loving way. And you know, Charles says, "You put your ego aside, you step into this medicine man role." And she said to me, "I don't trust you. I don't trust you." I said, "Okay, okay." Like, you know, like, okay. Um, you know, and this was, uh, uh, uh, I think this was after "Me Too" had happened, so I'm like, the last thing I need is somebody telling me I'm, you know, doing-- No, that's not my intention here. And, uh, and she sat up for a minute. I said, "Okay." And, and then it took me aback. So then when she said that, I'm searching in here. I'm like, "Am I being untrustworthy? Am I being creepy? Am I trying to take something from this wo-" Like, I'm checking in like, like is there anywhere in here where I'm trying to, where I'm doing something not the way I'm supposed to do? And my, my inner wisdom said, "Guy, no." It said, "You are fucking showing up for this woman like probably no man has ever showed up for her. You are 100% in integrity. You are showing up as the medicine man, and you're making it about her, and it's 1000% about her." And, uh, and when I got that knowing in my body and I'm like, "Oh, no, I'm, I'm showing up," these words came out of my mouth. She says to me, "I can't trust you," or, "I don't trust you." And I, I said to her, "Okay, you don't trust me." I said, "Is that because I'm untrustworthy or is that because you can't trust?" And she took a moment and she said to me, "Guy, I can't trust

Leah 41:48

Aw.

Guy 41:50

And I said, "Okay, we can work on that."

Leah 41:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Guy 41:55

But it w- it was that moment that I discovered that in the giving of the sessions and the helping, uh, women heal from experiences, uh, that they had had with men, which, which might have been the things that I did when I was in my younger years. Like just the, the anger and the dealing with, with the, the aggressiveness of men, that like I was actually healing myself and teaching myself how to trust. And I realized, oh, like trust is not that like, oh, somebody out there has to be safe. Of course, they have to be safe, but, but that was the beginning of having done so much work that I'm like, "Okay, you know what? I actually trust me now, and I trust my body." And so when I, when I meet a woman now, I'm like, "Yeah, just touch me any way you want, and if I don't like it, I'll tell you or I'll adjust you." But like there is a knowing that I trust myself and my body, and so the whole way that I can receive touch is completely different. It's non-threatening, it's non-- It's just like, okay, you touch me, and I will adjust myself to capture the pleasure in the way that you're touching, right? As opposed to like, well, I'm gonna sit here, and unless you touch me exactly like that, I'm not gonna get a... It's like, no, you do you, let me receive the wonderfulness of you and work on my receiving and, and, you know, be a little bit of an acrobat in how I receive how you touch. Um, and, uh, because I had learned to trust my body

Willow 43:16

Yeah. I mean, and that's basically what attune- where attunement starts. Like, it's like Guy j- just exactly what he just described. It's like he paused, he checked in with himself, "Am I doing anything out of integrity? Like, what's going on? Let me check, check, check, check, check. No, I'm good." And then he could ask that question. And he w- and, and so he could attune to her because he could attune to himself, and that's mastery, and that's the, the thing that we really want everyone to learn.

Leah 43:48

Yeah, and those are stories. That's such a beautiful story, Guy. Thank you for sharing that. That just, ugh, makes my heart burst.

Vulnerability And Healing

Leah 43:55

Um, and those were like the stories, right, that would come right after another on those Sundays and at those teacher trainings and, um, you know, watching couples who hadn't been sexual with each other for years and years and years, and then they have this breakthrough night and they're both crying because, like, they reached each other's hearts for, like, the first time, and they weren't on autopilot, and they saw each other, and they saw each other's essence. And like, you know, to have those tender moments. And that's why vulnerability is so unavoidable, I think, in these experiences. You know, like that was really vulnerable for that aha to reach her and to go, "Oh, I don't trust." You know? And there's so much grief in that. When we h- when we start to look at all the reasons why my body doesn't know how to trust anymore, you know, that comes from violations in life. That comes from someone not seeing you and, and all these... Right? We got tons of stories. To start to unpack the stories. And I think what I also love is that you're not just unpacking the stories, like, in your mind, where you're going through, like, the garbage of all the shitty things that have happened to you. Instead, you're, y- it's like you're s- you're finding the wound that's holding the stories, and you're allowing love into that wound so that the story can change. So

Guy 45:19

Yeah

Leah 45:20

there's just so much healing that's possible, and where that healing leads you to is then so much pleasure. And then you start to hear the stories of like, "I've never had pleasure like that before," and, "I didn't know my body was capable of that." And the givers are talking about the energy that they're feeling in their hands and like, it's just, it just goes on and on and on how people can articulate their body and being in touch with their body in new ways. And also the fear that vulnerability has attached to it, going into a situation and discovering, "Ooh, I'm nervous." Or like you guy, even that moment of "Wait a minute, I gotta check," you know? And that... There's a lurch of fear first, and then you're doing the checking to make sure everything's okay. That really, I think, speaks a lot to vulnerability. because when we're vulnerable, we're woundable, as we've said on the show so many times. And it takes a lot of courage to go, "And I'm gonna be with that," because our realness exists in that. And when you let someone see you, you're kinda stripping away everything and showing someone your guts and just saying, "Hey, I hope you like what you see." And then they love what they see, and you are your most real, most authentic self, and you are stripped naked. Like, literally, you're naked. And it goes so beyond not wearing clothes. You're really naked emotionally, and you're trusting that that giver is gonna, um, be there for you. And then the thing happens. They're there for you. Like everyone wants to be there for someone else. And so that genuine humanness, I don't know. It's hard to put words, uh, to describe how profound that is, I think.

Willow 47:08

think it's what we all crave. We all want to be acknowledged. We all want to be seen. We all want to be, you know, loved for who we are at our most authentic, real core self. Problem is we're too afraid to show people who that is. So

Leah 47:25

Or we're too afraid to see it in ourselves, you know? There's that too. Yeah.

Love Over Performance

Leah 47:30

Um, I think too there's something interesting about taking sex off the table, uh, that, uh, frees people up a little bit. And one of the obstacles that many of us have to face is not being performative. Like, this is really an opportunity and a request, and to be really authentic with what you're experiencing, because it isn't about looking sexy and having an orgasm so everyone feels great, you know? It's

Guy 47:57

not about climax

Leah 47:58

yeah, it's really about love. And one of the things you said before coming on, talking about these sacred spot nights that you're having with practitioners in New York, Guy, was you really spoke to the love that's in the space. And there is, like, the main vehicle of this practice is capturing love and delivering it, and being willing to receive it on the deepest level possible. And I think that's what affects the most change and the transcendent possibilities. And then that feeds into the place where pleasure exists in all of this, um, which I think is unique. I think it's a unique aspect of sexuality, because we can have tons of pleasure and great orgasms in friction-oriented sex, or, you know, a lot of get off in other types of sex. But this is the cornerstone where love is the r- is the main ingredient to the recipe

Willow 48:50

Absolutely

Workshops And Retreats

Leah 48:52

So we have some really fun events coming up having to do with sacred spot massage and learning the skills and the tools. So if this conversation has been intriguing for you, there is a workshop that Guy and I are producing in New York City, which is, July 17th through the 20th, and that is open to singles and couples. It's gonna be at the Tantra Institute. You can go to sexreimagined.com/events and register for that or get more information for that event. And then myself, uh, Guy, and our colleague, Wanda Santos Haynes, is teaching a full Tantra beginners immersive weekend in Phoenix, August 14th through the 16th. And we're gonna be teaching about 19 different practices and principles to Tantra in that weekend. So we will be teaching about sacred spot massage, but there'll be a, a lot more other practices available in that course. And then one event that, Willow and I are super excited about, in Craftsbury, Vermont. Now this one is just for couples, and we're gonna be doing an introduction to Tantra, which is a, you know, a two to three-hour class on Friday, September 25th. And then we have a couples only retreat on September 26th and September 27th, where we will be focusing the entire weekend on sacred spot massage for couples. Anything the two of you wanna add about those events we've got going on this summer?

Willow 50:31

Mm. Come play. It's gonna be good times. Don't miss out. Bring your partner to Vermont or go to Leah and Guy's one where you can go as a single, right? For-

Leah 50:43

Yes. And so you can, you can see all of these events at sexreimagined.com/events

Guy 50:51

Yeah. Uh, totally, totally open and available to singles, and I think I'm really looking forward to the one that we're gonna do here, in New York, because we'll really get a chance to, uh, to share in that loving energy and, you know, and, do it in a perhaps a different way that we, than we have before.

Leah 51:09

Yeah, I think

Guy 51:09

that.

Embodiment And Farewell

Leah 51:10

one of the things that, will be unique in that New York program is we're really breaking down the sequence of the ritual so that you get to in class really feel the muscle memory of each step of the Sacred Spot ritual sequence. We're really gonna kind of parse it down, so you can get really great direct experience, 'cause it is a somatic practice. And at all of these events, the key to Tantra is embodiment. It's not just a linear philosophical system. It is something that you can only know by practicing it in your body in order to experience its benefits. Thank you so much, Guy, for being on the show.

Willow 51:49

Yay. Thanks for coming, Guy. I think this is our third episode with Guy. Is it?

Leah 51:54

Yeah No, fourth. Third?

Willow 51:56

Fourth?

Leah 51:57

No, third

Willow 51:58

Well, we had one with you and Maya, and then one with you alone. Maybe fourth,

Leah 52:03

didn't you have two with you and Maya?

Willow 52:06

I think

Guy 52:06

uh, I'm thrilled to be so popular

Willow 52:09

You are

Leah 52:10

we've had,

Willow 52:10

very popular, in our

Leah 52:12

Yeah. You are a friend of the show, sir, and we appreciate you. Um, all right, friends. Well, that's it for today. Please, check out the next episode of Sex Reimagined, and like, subscribe, and share

Speaker 3 52:24

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together