Toxic Relationships

Robbie shares his journey from growing up gay in a conservative evangelical family of 10 to moving to the UK at 19. He opens up about coming out, family fallout, and navigating relationships in a tech-driven world. A powerful story of resilience, truth, and the search for love and acceptance in modern times

Transcript

Robbie's Background and Coming Out

Speaker 1 0:16

Hi Robbie , how are you doing ?

Speaker 2 0:20

I'm pretty good , thanks , how are you ?

Speaker 1 0:22

I'm good . I'm actually excited that you're here .

Speaker 2 0:24

Oh , thank you , I'm excited to be here .

Speaker 1 0:25

You came to my lovely , humble home .

Speaker 2 0:27

Oh , it's nice to be here . Thank you for having me .

Speaker 1 0:29

Yeah , it's about time .

Speaker 2 0:30

Yeah , I know it's been . We've been friends for a couple of months now , yeah it's been a while . It's been a while and I've not been here , so I feel really bad about that .

Speaker 1 0:37

Good for you here , thank you , thank you , no problem . So tell us about yourself what you're from , what's your background ? Sure , you should just yourself .

Speaker 2 0:47

Okay , yeah , no problem . So I'm Robbie Platt . I'm from the States originally . I've been living here in London since well , in the UK since 2004 . I was born in Long Island , new York , one of ten children in my family .

Speaker 2 1:01

Ten children in your family , ten children . I've got seven brothers and two sisters and we moved from New York , long Island , just outside the city , outside of Queens , to North Carolina when I was about 13 years old , 1986 . A little town called Asheville , which is in the mountains , the Appalachian Mountains , beautiful , beautiful part of the country , and I was there until about the age of 19 and then kind of started , went to university , university of North Carolina at Asheville sort of my first year at uni and then I came to England . Did you go to Asheville recently ? I was in Asheville about ten days ago , yeah .

Speaker 1 1:36

Ten days ago , so you were the brother's wedding right .

Speaker 2 1:38

Yes , that's right , one of my little ones got married second time .

Speaker 1 1:41

He got married , actually which ?

Speaker 2 1:42

I'm so jealous about because I haven't been married yet once and I'm 40 . But yeah , second marriage for him it was in Charleston , south Carolina , beautiful part of the country again . Yeah , it was very nice , very nice .

Speaker 1 1:52

So how was it ? How do you upbringing as a gay man ? Was it easy for you ?

Speaker 2 1:59

Absolutely not . It was the sheer opposite . So my family , the reason we have ten children , is because we're you know quite , it's quite a conservative family . My parents are like evangelical Christians , basically wanting to get Christians , if you like , and my dad converted to Catholicism like , I think , in sort of the late 90s when I was still living at home and many of my brothers sort of followed in his footsteps . I've got two sisters and my mother who are not Catholic , but I think pretty much the rest of my family is .

Speaker 1 2:26

Yeah .

Speaker 2 2:27

Actually , my brother Timmy , might not be Catholic but like most of them are .

Speaker 1 2:30

So that means , if you're Catholic , therefore , you must be conservative , and you must not be , not for gay rights , but you must be way more strict in order to support you .

Speaker 2 2:41

No , not necessarily . I mean , there's different factions of the Catholic faith and I think where they are they're actually part of this . I forgot what the name of the sect is , but they're sort of a stricter sect , a more traditional sect , where they actually give the , what's it called , not the sermons , but the . I guess they are called sermons , the masses , the masses . Yeah , that's right sorry , I can't remember In Latin , you know .

Speaker 2 3:02

so it's very , very traditional like they follow some of the original sort of rules that were in place from the Catholic Church first came into existence and they continue to . I think the priest actually delivers the sermons with his back to the congregation and the reason they do that is because they're sort of facing God , I think , and they're kind of meeting the pack or something like that , but it's just all kinds of little weird nuances .

Speaker 1 3:24

Did you used to go all the time to the question ? I didn't go to that particular one .

Speaker 2 3:27

I went to a normal Catholic . I say normal .

Speaker 1 3:28

Sorry , I should probably shift to a different one , but I went to the more modern version of the Catholic Church , the more white one , the most known .

Speaker 2 3:34

Yeah , the most known exactly .

Speaker 1 3:35

And you moved to the UK when you were 19 .

Speaker 2 3:38

I moved to the UK in 2004, . I can't remember exactly . I think I must have been 19 or 20 .

Speaker 1 3:42

I think I might have been 20 actually when I first came here , and so the reason I did .

Speaker 2 3:47

I mean this is very personal , but I had a bit of a I guess I came out . I knew that I was gay from sort of when I was a teenager late teenager and I knew that once when I was in high school I did feel like I was bullied quite a bit in North Carolina , didn't feel like I could really be myself . So I knew that when I went to university that there would be an opportunity more of an opportunity for me to come out and be open and be myself .

Speaker 1 4:13

Sorry to hear that . I mean , why were you bullied ? Because did they know that you were gay ? Or did they bully for other reasons ?

Speaker 2 4:17

Maybe it was my perception , maybe I wasn't actually bullied , I don't know .

Speaker 2 4:20

But I just feel as though I didn't really , you know , sort of fit in that . Well , in high school that's really crazy I was really self-aware of sort of myself being gay and you know , many of my friends sort of picked up on it and kind of like talked to me about it and I always denied it . I was just adamant about like just not associating with it . I viewed it , as you know , as was at the time more common as being sort of a weaker version of myself . You know , like a sort of you know , almost an issue .

Speaker 1 4:50

I think we all go through that . We also go through that through our teenage years . So did you date girls ?

Speaker 2 4:58

I did , I did Many . Oh my God . I think I dated three . I want to say three , Okay and it's . Oh my God , I have a funny story that's three more than I have Three more than you have had One of the girls I dated . It was so funny . Our first date was to go to the movies and we went to go see the movie Chicago which had just come out that musical , and we both loved it . I think I loved it a little bit more than she did and our whole relationship .

Speaker 1 5:21

You said it .

Speaker 2 5:21

We left the cinema singing all the songs we bought the . We went out immediately like bought the CD . At the time you had CDs in your car and we used to play that like all the time we would drive around . You know , whatever .

Speaker 1 5:32

He had it come in .

Speaker 2 5:33

He had it come in Anyway , so it's my favorite musical , by the way , awesome , it's amazing , it's great . Am I allowed to curse on here ? I didn't . Yeah , you can say fuck , okay , good , can say balls . It was fucking amazing . But I the whole relationship was basically based on the musical and I have no idea how she just didn't figure it out . I mean , we never were intimate , we never had sex , you know ? Okay , yeah .

Speaker 1 5:58

It was just like that . Yeah , but you were young anyway . So you were experimentally and I met her through the church .

Speaker 2 6:02

Actually , all my girlfriends , I think I met through the church . So I still friends with them , I am , I keep in touch with all of them , of course .

Speaker 1 6:07

Yeah , definitely Nice .

Speaker 2 6:08

In fact , when we broke up , we became best friends , you know . So that was just like a . I think we were meant to be friends .

Speaker 1 6:14

Yeah , yeah , of course . So you moved to the UK . Okay , let's go through that . So you moved to the UK .

Dating Experiences and Coming Out

Speaker 1 6:20

When was the first time you dated a boy ?

Speaker 2 6:23

The first time I dated a boy . That was actually when I was , when I went to university of North Carolina at Asheville , and partly what led me here to the UK . So I was , I was dating this guy . Oh , I don't want to say his name . I almost said his name . Whoops , I don't want to . I can't believe .

Speaker 1 6:39

I remember his name , I'll put that out .

Speaker 2 6:41

Actually it was many , many , many , many , many ago . So yeah , I was dating this guy and he was straight , he was in the closet and he'd I think he messed around with a couple of guys when he was younger and just took a liking to me . So we , you know , we started . He actually made the pass on me .

Speaker 2 6:58

I didn't realize that he was even gay you know to be or was curious or anything like that . I probably got a little bit of an inkling , but like we got drunk one night and , you know , fooled around that kind of thing at university and yeah , it just kind of took off from there and we had like maybe three or four months of just like absolute . I mean , it was my first guy that I was really properly dating and I was just head over heels with him .

Speaker 1 7:17

I thought it was a love thing , you know , it was just yeah , just complete like bliss .

Speaker 2 7:21

You know , for that time , Anyway , it kind of fell apart because at the time we didn't have like text messages or mobile phones . It was kind of before that and he wrote letters . What was it ? Emails . He was emails , oh , emails , yeah . So what happened was my grandfather actually passed away ? So we were called away . We went up to New York where my grandfather lives at the time , went to the funeral and he sent me like a couple of emails . But whilst we were away , his parents actually broke into . They had access to his email somehow . I don't know if he was using their email or whatever it was , but they read the emails and they were equally conservative Christians . I mean , this is this deep self we're talking about in North Carolina . And so they actually drove out to my parents' house and , like , just told them the whole situation which led to- .

Speaker 1 8:09

So they outed you because I was going to ask you about that they outed me .

Speaker 2 8:13

They outed me to my parents . I have a question about that in a minute , okay ?

Speaker 1 8:16

No , no , no , carry on , carry on , Okay , okay .

Speaker 2 8:18

So I had a bit of a fallout with the family . They we kind of . I stopped talking to a number of people in my family immediately following that when it all sort of transpired what happened , and basically I was still with my ex at the time , but then I woke up one morning and he was gone , all his stuff was gone , and it just broke my heart . I just went into this sort of tailspin of depression and , you know , sadness . It was just complete antithesis of what I had just experienced , like that bliss of like three , four months and then suddenly , suddenly like everything was taken away from me .

Speaker 2 8:51

Why , what ? Where did you go ? So I ended up actually going up to New York .

Speaker 1 8:57

No , him , oh him , oh him , when he left you .

Speaker 2 9:00

He just he went home . I think his parents came and picked him up and he just left . He took me , packed his stuff without me knowing and and just disappeared . That was it , boke up and he was gone . So everything was taken from me , like really , really quickly it was . It was yeah , it was quite traumatic .

Speaker 1 9:14

Yeah , there's that sense of rejection and in starts earlier and then that that stays with you , that can linger with you even without your knowledge .

Speaker 2 9:21

Yeah , it can , it definitely can , and I think I think that's probably something a lot of gay men can sort of relate to , you know .

Speaker 1 9:27

Oh , yeah , definitely .

Speaker 2 9:28

Rejection and you know , just just feeling kind of isolated , you know that kind of thing .

Speaker 1 9:33

So , speaking of that , because you said you were outed and so was I , and this is what I was going to talk- to you about you were outed as well .

Speaker 2 9:38

I didn't realize that .

Speaker 1 9:39

Yeah , because I was dating someone for it's actually for my . I was dating my first boyfriend , the one . His relationship lasted for over 10 years , so I was dating him in the beginning and there was this jealous guy who outed me to my parents Wow . And when ?

Speaker 2 9:52

I was going to . That is so low . That is the worst thing in the world . It is .

Speaker 1 9:56

It is . He's so angry , he's so cold , friend , but I was going to ask you did you feel a sense of relief when you were outed ? Because you know I can speak for myself . You know , and just just for one side side note , I was relieved because I was very scared of my . My father used to make jokes all the time about gays , yeah , and then when I was outed , my father was not my number one fan , but he was very supportive of me . Okay , okay but it was kind of relief .

Speaker 2 10:21

I know what you mean and that's actually a really good point that I haven't really thought about . But I suppose I had very carefully orchestrated , you know sort of how I was going to live my life . I was going to go to university and I would come out at university , and that was because that was a safe place . I was allowed to be , there was in a community that , like , accepted me , and so I would probably have lived a double life for a very long time . I don't know if eventually it would have come out to my , my family and everything else , but I think it did . It did force me to sort of yeah , to to it accelerated that that sort of whole plan of coming out .

Speaker 2 10:56

So , yeah , I think there was a sense of relief in that , because then I wasn't able to sort of live that lie which I had , which was all I knew my entire life .

Speaker 1 11:02

That's all I knew , you know it's , it's , it's kind of a blessing because you know it happens at the worst circumstances . But then when you think about it , you think like , at least I know , at least I've got nothing to hide anymore . That's how I felt yeah , exactly , Exactly , yeah .

Speaker 2 11:15

That's a really good point , yeah , so that that all happened and I I decided at that point that and yeah , I thought maybe it was just best to just try and and I think the best way to get over you know someone or like a loss of really big change in your life is just to it's just to kind of change the scene , the scenery , change you know , change the location or whatever . So same I moved . I moved to New York initially with my brother up there and sort of worked with him in the city . That was good . So I was there for probably six months or so and actually what I did was I worked two jobs and I saved up enough money to to basically funds a study abroad program for six months in the UK in a town called Chester , university of Chester , which is up north , yeah , and so I went up there and I was there for six months and absolutely fell in love with the UK , the freedom I had here , the ability to travel , just all the different interesting people that I met , the history here .

Speaker 2 12:11

I just thought this was a chance at a brand new life and I loved every aspect of it . I loved the just the country the history , the beauty , the people , the culture , the architecture , the personalities , the just everything about it .

Speaker 1 12:25

It just felt like the right move for me yeah .

Speaker 2 12:29

And so , yeah , I set up a life here very quickly . I actually met another guy . I did , yeah , another guy here , first Irish , you know , first Irish boyfriend , that's all I say . First , how many have you had ? Oh my God .

Speaker 1 12:41

How many Irish boyfriends have you had ? Three , three Irish . Oh , you do have a type .

Speaker 2 12:46

I don't know if it's the accent or something else , but you know , I think it's something else . Yeah , it might be something else , but they're pretty good , you know , in terms of what you laughing at .

Speaker 1 12:55

So let's go through them please . I mean , this episode is about toxic relationships and I know you .

Speaker 2 13:00

That's why you know I'm glad you came on the show because I'm glad I have the credentials . I need people like you .

Speaker 1 13:06

I need to talk to people like just so I can educate myself as well . I was gonna , let's just jump straight to it , so I'm just having a nice little sip of your wine there .

Speaker 2 13:13

I think I need that . Do you like my wine ? I love your wine . It's a nice Portuguese wine , portuguese wine . Can you say a little bit about it ? Yeah , well , it's like two words .

Speaker 1 13:22

Dona Irmolinda , that's what you need to know . When you go to Portugal , you need to order that wine . They have it white red , I think , rosé I'm not sure .

Speaker 2 13:29

You know what I had when I was in Portugal . Actually , I went recently because I was trying , yeah you went to Portugal . I went through another breakup let's say about six months ago . The toxic one . Yeah , that was one of . I think all my relationships have been toxic , to be honest , to be fair . But like , yeah , this one was particularly ended badly , but I can talk more about that later . But yeah , when I went on a sort of solo trip , I had something called green wine which I hadn't had before .

Speaker 1 13:56

Vinho verde . Yeah , vinho verde . Yeah , yes , that's white . Basically it's kind of white . I mean I like both . I'm not fussing with wine anymore .

Speaker 2 14:05

I just hate rosé . You're not fussing , you just drink anything as long as it's white , as long as it feels good , yeah for good .

Speaker 1 14:09

Sainsbury's , whatever . Wow . But yeah , I love that wine . I'm so glad you mentioned that because I'm just going to ask you straight up what are the first signs of a toxic relationship from your experience , First signs and knowing what you know now .

Speaker 2 14:27

Well , okay , I think , yeah , going backwards , I feel like there's signs at the very beginning that you need to look out for , I think , someone who and this is really interesting because I think there's probably an element of toxicity in all of us I don't think anyone is toxic-free . We all have trauma , we all have situations that we go through that dentus , no one's perfect , so you've got to realize that every single person on earth has good and bad elements , and qualities about them , including ourselves .

Speaker 2 14:58

Yeah , including ourselves . I feel like in today's day and age , with just the ubiquity of having all of these self-help and well-being but also having any run at the first sign of trouble , I don't feel like that . That should be the immediate reaction .

Speaker 2 15:16

I'm so glad you said that In today's day and age , with so much choice that we have , with everyone being swipeable , I feel like people run at the first sign of danger , the first sign of trouble . I don't feel like that's always the right reaction . I really don't . I feel like you've got , you're going

Navigating Relationships in a Changing Society

Speaker 2 15:35

. Relationships are tough , they're hard , they're not easy . They're never always easy . If you're planning to be with somebody for the next 50 to 60 years , you will go through burying most of your friends and family in that period . You will go through moves and loss and trauma and all kinds of experiences . You will go through health crises . You will go through all kinds of situations . It's really about sticking with that person through their lows , through their highs and just being that one person .

Speaker 1 16:04

It sounds like when you're with someone , you're in for the long haul , you're in for the long journey , you're in for the marriage . Because you were just reciting marriage vows . I was going to say that is it because let me just ask you this , because you've just mentioned what you need to stick with someone through and through . I think that's generational , because I think the new generation doesn't do that . I know I'm over-generalizing .

Speaker 2 16:30

You were talking against maybe around . I'm not with evolution , but I would say upwards of like two million years of history . People are naturally what's the word I'm looking for ? I was going to say egregious , but I don't think that's the right word they're naturally sort of flocked towards . They need other people . We partner up . That's sort of a natural part of the way that we've evolved .

Speaker 1 16:55

Having that sort of other person . I don't think that's what's happening . Do you know why ? Because naturally we gravitate towards one another , but I think society is splitting us up because now what you're seeing in the media is like you need to be independent , you need to be a boss , bitch , boss , babe , boss this , boss that , and you cannot rely on other people . I think that's really dangerous in our society nowadays , totally .

Speaker 2 17:17

Okay , I see your point . Yeah , I completely agree with that . I would say that it's not all of us crave to have that sort of that feeling of love At this point in your life . You might not necessarily need it , but it's a longer term investment . You're eventually going to lose your parents . You're eventually going to lose your family . It's about having that other person when you get old and you need someone to look after you . Can you imagine I used to volunteer , like back in the States ? I used to volunteer in retirement homes , for example . Can you imagine being that person all alone and you pass away and nobody comes to your funeral .

Speaker 1 17:48

It's huge in you .

Speaker 2 17:49

Okay , I know you are going to be around to sort of grieve that . But can you imagine being at the end years of your life and just literally not even having a person to pick up the phone and talk to Five ?

Speaker 1 17:59

on the phone with a relative Like five on the phone with a conversation .

Speaker 2 18:01

You want to talk about something that's bothering you and you actually have no one . Your friends will eventually have their own lives , have their own sort of situations , have their own families . It's just naturally what people do . So eventually , as you get older , you're going to find that your friendship groups continues to shrink and shrink and shrink , whether you're gay or straight or whatever , and that will just happen and eventually think about what the purpose of a relationship is . It's not about having necessarily like a husband or wife for the sake of it . It's about having a best friend that you are committing to passing through this journey of life together with .

Speaker 1 18:34

And if it's a partner , if it's a loving partner , I mean that's just grave , isn't it ? That's just a bonus , and I completely agree with you . So you're very moral . You're very moral , you've got your , you're not going to say I am , you do .

Speaker 2 18:48

You might have your life . I suppose that all that church years way back in this video .

Speaker 1 18:52

Yeah , well , it's bringing all that . It's really paying off . You know it's bringing all that .

Speaker 2 18:55

I'm probably the most moral , amoral person there is on the planet . I'm very liberal . You're saying all the right things .

Speaker 1 19:00

You're saying all the right things .

Speaker 2 19:01

I'm very liberal when it comes to things , but I think that there is a very moral basis for being liberal . So I feel like my whole point of being , my whole point of being , comes from very . You know I believe in equality . I believe people should all have equal chance in life . Is everything okay ? Okay , I heard crashing in the background . Is your ? That's just me thinking Okay .

Speaker 2 19:21

All right , just making sure . Yeah , you know . So I really feel like you know , my pushing the boundaries of society is really about fighting for what I believe to be morally right and I feel like there are changes that need to happen . Still , you know , like I don't know .

Speaker 1 19:38

Like what , like what ? What would you change now if you could ? No , actually , you just said it . You just said it . People cannot be so so , living in fear of missing out all the time . People need to be more , need to rely more on one another .

Speaker 2 19:50

It's weird , because I would say there's elements of me that are very progressive . There's also elements of me that are very traditional .

Speaker 1 19:55

Although that you put that in traditional versus progressive . So if you're not pro-marriage Progressive , well , what is ?

Speaker 2 20:02

No , I mean traditional for me is preserving the past right . It's preserving the past is protective of what was , and I feel like there's elements of me that is definitely , you know , wants to do that . You know , when it comes to sort of relationships and sort of the way you treat other people , like it's on a personal basis , you know , making sure that people have , you know , that commitment and things that I think that this generation is now sort of starting to forget .

Speaker 1 20:26

Yeah , Totally agree with that , I think that's before you know .

Speaker 2 20:29

Society today is sort of pulling people apart . Technology is pulling people apart because it's making them more individualistic , which I don't agree with . I believe that we need to be together and look out for each other . So that's like my traditional bits .

Speaker 2 20:40

And I think being progressive is where I think there have been gaps in addressing that in the past , because society hasn't always been equal towards LGBTQ plus people , towards people of different color and backgrounds and different you know sort of , you know whatever , whatever it might be . So there have been gaps in that and I feel like that is the number one principle driving a lot of my personal beliefs in my life .

Speaker 1 21:02

And there you have it .

Speaker 2 21:03

So there you go , Srinigwa and there you have it , and there you have it . I'm still going to let you this up ?

Speaker 1 21:08

Exactly , yeah , I guess I obviously agree with everything that you just said .

Speaker 2 21:11

By the way , this wine is delicious . It's going down really , really well .

Speaker 1 21:13

It's Portuguese , right , I mean enough said yeah , but we were talking about the first signs , the signs that you would now avoid with your actual boyfriend . Yeah , okay , if you had a boyfriend now , what would I know ? It's a bit like of a contradictory thing to say , but what would make you run for the hills ? Whoo .

Speaker 2 21:32

You know this is beyond we're getting deep now . We're getting deep now , okay .

Speaker 1 21:36

I haven't even started yet , oh .

Speaker 2 21:39

God , okay , right . So this is , this is just the beginning

Signs of Disrespect and Open Relationships

Speaker 2 21:41

, right ? So let's see , I think one thing .

Speaker 1 21:45

Do you ever not wear shorts ? Every time I see you , we're always wearing shorts , even when it's cold .

Speaker 2 21:49

I like to show off these legs . Baby , you know these legs . These legs are great .

Speaker 1 21:53

I can tell you're single .

Speaker 2 21:56

I'm trying to show off the package , okay .

Speaker 1 21:58

Good for you , sorry Go on , we digress .

Speaker 2 22:01

Yeah , we digress . Sorry about that . Okay , so I think the thing that I like to tell all sign is I know it sounds really petty and small , but if , if your , if your partner is always on his phone , always on his phone , always answering messages , always answering messages , and then you text him and or her , or whatever it is , you know , I'm sorry .

Speaker 1 22:22

Yeah , partner .

Speaker 2 22:24

And they , they take a while to get back to you . That's a bad sign .

Speaker 1 22:28

That's a bad sign , I think because so , when you're with them next to you is always on the phone , and then when you , you go to your home , et cetera , and you message them , and they'll message you when , when it's too long for you , so when it's too long a wait for you .

Speaker 2 22:39

Once too long of a wait ? Yeah , I would say an hour , two hours . I mean . If it's the middle of a work day , then you know .

Speaker 2 22:47

if it's the weekend and it's like you know one to a single and you can see that there's two ticks , that kind of thing , and you know they haven't replied back and yet when you're with them you see them responding to people , like much more quickly . You know there's something wrong there . I don't know . For me it's not even about that . That was just . That was an example of where I think respect has begun to fall and your partner has begun to look for ways that he can push . He can push that line of respect Because you know , for me , I've been in relationships with narcissists . You know several times in the past , more than once , and you know , I think , what it is about , sort of the other person coming in and trying to seed control , trying to kind of almost emotionally nip you out . He's just taken a puff of my vape and I don't I think that was way too big of a puff .

Speaker 2 23:35

So when you suck it when you suck it , you've got to like suck it gently , like this and , yeah , I still don't understand the concept of vaping .

Speaker 1 23:46

It's not a nice concept , it's great .

Speaker 2 23:48

It's much better than smoking , which I used to do back in the day you remember what you were saying before . Yes , I do . I was talking about respect .

Speaker 2 23:59

I don't know what that is , I feel like . For me it's about looking for those signs of respect . Where you see those cracks happening in that level of respect , you should address it early on . But I feel like if there's a consistent , sustained attempt to not responding , going out and just trying to think , not inviting you to things that you would typically invite your partner to Like , what If there's a house party or something and everyone else is bringing their couple ? And your partner says I'm just going to spend some time with my friends .

Speaker 2 24:45

Yeah that doesn't sound good . No , no . Things like that Because you should want to spend time with your partner .

Speaker 2 24:50

I agree you should want to be spending time with your partner If he or she or they or whatever , knows that you're going to be sitting at home not doing anything to put a link in your thumbs and you've not been invited . And this excuse is oh well , you know , I don't know , through inviting partners or something like that . And then you find out oh well , you know , the other partners have gone . And then it's like you know what is , are you hoping to pick up ? Are you hoping to hook up with you know what I mean ? Like all these questions start to flow .

Speaker 2 25:16

Yeah , yeah especially when you're like that's actually an element of control . That is an element of control .

Speaker 1 25:21

Especially when they were like ultra tight , like X small t-shirts when they're mostly . Who are you trying to impress ? Why don't you partner with a home ? I didn't call for your chair , oh perfect .

Speaker 2 25:32

I didn't lose your chair . There you go , try that , try again . Oh , there we go , that's better .

Speaker 1 25:36

Anyway , this is one digression , and then yeah , so why are you dressing up ? You know , if you don't want to go out with your partner , I get it . You need to have your own time , your own me time with your friends . But who are you trying to impress when you go to those parties that you just mentioned ? Exactly , Like wearing really attractive clothes , clothing , I mean I'm all about like freedom . But then I mean , do you want to be with me or not ?

Speaker 2 25:58

Do you think this is a bit too extreme . I don't know . I think it's all right to celebrate . You know the way that you look . There's nothing wrong with a bit of white party . There's nothing wrong with people looking at you and saying , oh , I like those arms , I like those guns . You know , I like those bombs .

Speaker 1 26:11

What's wrong with liking that with your partner next to you ?

Speaker 2 26:14

Yeah , yeah , I mean .

Speaker 1 26:16

Why do you go out ? And then , who are you trying to impress ?

Speaker 2 26:19

That's almost like saying you know , you know , wear a hijab now , you know like and just like , cover yourself up when we go out , because A bit too extreme though , isn't it ? I don't feel like that's necessary .

Speaker 1 26:28

No , it's up his religious .

Speaker 2 26:30

Yeah , that's true , but there's a reason . There's a purpose behind that , though , and the purpose behind that is to cover up , you know , sort of the sexual curves and that kind of thing . Right right , and you know , I just don't . You know , I think there's nothing wrong with celebrating the way that you look and you . A partnership should be about equality , you know , and it's not about you controlling or preventing them from . I guess I guess boundaries , but you know .

Speaker 1 26:53

Yeah , but that's my point . Yeah , it's not controlling , it's not in security , it's not jealousy . Well , it's about , yeah , it's about boundaries . What is the Again , if you're in an open relationship , which I was going ?

Speaker 2 27:04

to ask you about . Well , okay .

Speaker 1 27:06

But I think , yeah , there's a you . Okay , so I'm just going to say it you were in an open relationship . It does not seem correct . You've told everyone I was not in an open relationship no . I would you were . You went into an open relationship there were boundaries to .

Speaker 2 27:19

It's not a traditional open relationship . The relationship that I had with him right , oh God , I just dropped my bag . Can you pass it over please ? Okay , a bit too nervous , are you ? Yeah , I got nervous there . The open relationship that we had it was called different country , different rules , and basically what that meant was if we were both in the same country at the same time , if there was someone else who was involved with If we decided to bring someone else in .

Speaker 2 27:45

basically Sorry if we slept with other people it was together , so it was like a threesome , that kind of thing .

Speaker 1 27:50

So now , you never did that on your own .

Speaker 2 27:53

No , if we were in the same country it had to be together . But if we were in different countries we were both allowed to kind of shag whoever we wanted , but we had to report back what we did , because there was a health reason behind that . Because if he went and shagged 20 people which I mean I don't think he'd ever do that . Well , actually he would , and so would you , mrs St . I would not , not that .

Speaker 1 28:14

Not in a relationship . Not in a relationship , no , I was actually pretty good .

Speaker 2 28:16

I actually rarely kind of like , but I always reported it back . I was always very honest and truthful about it and , to be honest with you , I found that when I got into the relationship and I fell in love that I didn't really desire to sleep with other people .

Speaker 1 28:31

But that's the point to me , that's the point of I wouldn't be in an open relationship because I'm too jealous for that . But I also think like if we can do it good for you , more power to you and all that . But I just think there will always be one person . There will always be one person . If you're in a trouble , for example , there will always be one person that feels a bit left out , and then that person is going to suffer in silence .

Speaker 2 28:52

So my issue with that is you suffered in silence . Well listen , my issue with that is that when you get with somebody right , you know and you've committed the rest of your life , it's not about keeping that person in prison . Can you imagine like okay , this is the last penis you will ever see for the rest of your life . You know You've just married this person . You're never going to see another penis for the rest of your life , so what ?

Speaker 2 29:14

I don't feel like that's realistic . I think if you look at history , everyone has cheated , everyone like it's just ridiculous the levels of amount of people that actually cheat on their partners . It's probably close to 100% you know , it really is .

Speaker 2 29:27

So to put these unrealistic constraints on a relationship , I think can actually add pressure . So I think what modern society is trying to address and they're probably not doing it correctly it's about alleviating that pressure a little bit . It's about saying this is respect . Respect is the number one core thing that is important in this relationship . So I'm going to be honest with you , I'm going to be transparent with you , I'm going to be sure that you know I'm going to respect the boundaries .

Speaker 2 29:57

We discussed what the rules are and we both adhere to them , I agree . And then when we do that , you know we're respecting each other .

Speaker 1 30:04

But that's what I'm going to tell you . What's the ?

Speaker 2 30:05

rules that respect , because cheating is disrespect , cheating is lying , is deceitful , betrayal . But if you've discussed those terms , then I think that alleviates that pressure and it allows you to still have an open and transparent and honest relationship where you both respect each other , where you don't feel forced to cheat .

Speaker 1 30:20

Or if cheating happens . You just said it , cheating happens all the time . Everyone apparently will cheat . But yeah , that's fine , it will happen . It will be human beings , men having men cheat more than women . I'm not sure , but I think times have changed . But I think that I used to be the traditional cheating way , apparently . But I also think that when you cheat , yes , it's bad , it's betrayal , it ends a lot of relationships , even friendships . But in friendships and sexual relations , loving relationships , you need to work through . If you want to , if you think it's worth it , just work through . Cheating happens , but so does communication Nothing . Communication is key and if you don't communicate with your partner , with your friends , with your acquaintances , I don't think there's any point . And I think open relationships , open relationships is a result of communication , but cheating happens there as well , you know what do you mean ?

Speaker 2 31:13

open relationships are a result of communication . What do you mean ?

Speaker 1 31:16

Because I think , in order to have an open relationship , you need to have a dialogue with your partner . You can just be open without your partner's knowledge . That's called cheating . Right , yeah , exactly yeah yeah , okay .

Speaker 2 31:26

So I guess , I guess , I guess there is an element of us having like sort of an open relationship . But , like they were , there were very strict boundaries . It wasn't like a traditional one where you can just go out and sort of shag anyone that you wanted , anytime you wanted . There was . There was various specifics , you know , to it . And you know and unfortunately , those were respected , which is why I broke up . Why then did you very sad , like I don't think it should have , but you know , there we are , I think you know , you can have one person in the relationship , you need two people .

Speaker 2 31:51

So there we are .

Speaker 1 31:53

So what's your mindset now ?

Speaker 2 31:55

Where's my mindset now ? Just sorry .

Speaker 1 31:58

That's your mindset .

Speaker 2 32:00

Interesting question . I am in a position where it's it's been hard . You know I've spent the last sort of six months , you know , trying to move on , trying to rebuild and you know , unfortunately , like you know , a lot of things haven't rebuilt themselves .

Speaker 1 32:18

I've had just to clarify . Just to clarify you did break up early this year .

Speaker 2 32:22

I broke up with my ex partner six months ago , exactly Six , six months , yeah , so yeah , so it's been kind of like six months of like you know , I think I think what it is is people often underestimate how , how trauma , traumatizing , you know , a breakup can be for at least one person , if not both , in the relationship in different ways . Maybe I don't really know , because I haven't spoken to my ex partner since , since the breakup really length . Yeah , I think we've had maybe one or two conversations , but they've not really been substantial no .

Speaker 2 32:54

But the thing is , I think you know when you have a breakup , it's almost like , almost like you know grieving for somebody's past on , or you know grieving for a life that you were planning on , that you may have spent years or your entire life , sort of like looking forward , and you kind of put the pieces together , yeah , and then suddenly all that's taken away from you . So you do have sort of like you know , months of sort of grieving and trauma and just it sucks .

Speaker 1 33:20

Yeah .

Speaker 2 33:21

And anxiety and everything else and lots of interesting things that you that you would have had at one point , and just not really sure what the next stage in your life should be , or what you want it to be , or even wanting to have the next stage , you know . So it's been a real struggle .

Speaker 1 33:36

But do you know ? Because how many of you have you had again ?

Speaker 2 33:38

So far , I've had three official ones , because I was going to ask you how ? No , no , no , I had four official ones for official ones .

Navigating Relationships

Speaker 1 33:45

So how long in between relationships did you stay single for ?

Speaker 2 33:48

You know what ? That's a good question . It's so between boyfriend one and boyfriend two . It was , I want to say , about six years . Boyfriend two and boyfriend three is four years .

Speaker 1 34:03

Six years , four years , ok , yeah , it's been a while .

Speaker 2 34:06

Yeah .

Speaker 1 34:08

Why do you think you're lonely ? I take a little time to get over people .

Speaker 2 34:11

What about the other way around ? And that's why that's , and that's the way it should be , probably because I mean like if I , if I was able to sort of like get over somebody within like a week or so or two weeks or a month or two months , you know I'd be , I probably would have had 18 boyfriends . You know , at this point in my life I'm 40 years old you know , I probably should have had more boyfriends or , I don't know , should have . It's my personality type . You know I've had the number of boyfriends that is right for me , right . I've been at my own pace and that sort of was worth for me . So the next one , who knows ?

Speaker 2 34:38

You know , I have no idea I am dating again . I have started dating again . I am seeing various different people at different points , just to try and just get to know people . I'm at the getting to know you stage kind of thing , and I've met some really , really lovely , lovely guys . I'm trying to sort of like I'm on quite a few different dating apps . I'm on hinge , I'm on Tinder , I'm on Grindr . So Grindr isn't really what's wrong with ?

Speaker 2 35:04

no , scruff . No because scruff is scruff is just scruffy sex . It's kinky sex , and I mean as much as I like .

Speaker 1 35:11

tell us where we went last , last Saturday .

Speaker 2 35:15

Rose . We went to Rose Speaking of kink . Yeah , yeah , that was good , that was good fun .

Speaker 1 35:21

I think that's a good journey , though I mean you create your own path , no one else you know . And then who am I and who are you to criticize my path ? You know , if I want to be single for two weeks , so be it , Because I know some people cannot be out of relationships .

Speaker 2 35:33

But you know what I mean . You know what I mean .

Speaker 1 35:35

I have been single for four years now , I think .

Speaker 2 35:37

Have you ? Yeah , are you looking for a new relationship ?

Speaker 1 35:40

Actually four years Four-ish . How did we meet , by the way ? We met on the orange Facebook , actually . No , we met on Tinder . We met on Tinder .

Speaker 2 35:49

We met on Tinder . We did , we went on a date , didn't we ? Yeah , couple of dates , yeah .

Speaker 1 35:52

We went there , you go everyone .

Speaker 2 35:54

We went on a few dates and that's how I got to know Robbie , and then and then next week Robbie went on a second date , and then he found out how much of a mess I am and invited me to his podcast and you know it's been More productive use of time . It's been a love story ever since . As friends .

Speaker 1 36:08

As friends , as friends it has , it has as friends and I think that's probably how most of my things are going to end up .

Speaker 2 36:14

Good feel , you know at this point you know probably friends , because I don't see myself as finding my future husband right now . I mean , I really don't think it's something you can plan for .

Speaker 1 36:24

Listen to me . I also think it's too early for you .

Speaker 2 36:26

It's too early to tell , but listen , I really think that it's not something that you can plan for my exes , who were both substantial , really good long-term relationships , first one being my ex-fiancee right . Mm-hmm , I didn't know that . Yeah , I've been engaged before , but this last one I also proposed to you as well last summer .

Speaker 1 36:48

You're very impulsive . No , no , with your ex . I know it said his name too , but I think you have a very impulsive personality . Why ? Because you know actually I'm probably making this up , but I do think that you jump into situations . In general , I'm not going to mention anything and I think you know people take risks in life and I think they pay off . You know they're meant to pay off , but I didn't know you were engaged twice .

Speaker 2 37:13

No , I wasn't engaged twice . I've been engaged once .

Speaker 1 37:16

No , you said , you felt , and then the last one , and then I proposed to you , but he rejected . Oh , so you almost engaged , but you would have been engaged if you had your way .

Speaker 2 37:24

He actually ended up laughing at me and this is one of the narcissists that I've dated Laughing at me and actually we were away . We were at a wedding and ended up telling quite a few people who attended the wedding about it and it was just like really actually really low , really horrible thing to do . It is .

Speaker 2 37:41

And I ended up laughing about it and actually like he ended up thinking it became so second nature Like I think probably till the story 100 times that he did in front of a couple of people that we were mutual friends with at the time and they were just in shock .

Speaker 1 37:55

Tell me later who they are .

Speaker 2 37:56

Yeah , I will . They ended up looking at him and saying you know , you can't do this in front of someone who's just proposed you know you can't . And this is his heart and his life . And you're like sitting here just laughing about it , like that's a really serious thing . For some , that's a big step for someone .

Speaker 1 38:09

That's really bad . How much of laughing though I was in . Why was he mocking ?

Speaker 2 38:12

I think it was because I well , in fairness to him , I did it when I was very drunk . I got quite scared to do it when I was sober . We were in a town called Tassis in South France and we're at the top of a cliff and you know .

Speaker 1 38:27

I almost did it .

Speaker 2 38:27

The sun was setting . It was really really beautiful scenery . I can still picture it like vividly . It's cheesy , but it's so cute it really is no , it would have been lovely , it would have been awesome .

Speaker 1 38:35

But I got too scared .

Speaker 2 38:36

At that point I even asked him to sit down next to me and kind of like , just , I was like , okay , what do I do ? Do I get on my knee ? What do I do ? I'm not sure . Oh my God , we got up scared , I'm scared . We went down to the town , to Tassis , and we actually sat down and started having dinner and we sat next to this couple living that and I just remember that one of them was a wedding planner and it was just . It just felt so natural . I felt like that was the right thing to happen . At that time I really thought that this was the one for me . Like , honestly , I can't even tell you the level of euphoria and everything else that was going through my blood , my veins , just being with this person . But yeah , that whole situation was turned around on me by him and he actually ended up laughing about it .

Speaker 1 39:17

Do you think that was kind of a toxic sign ? I'm not saying you should do what it could have , but I'm just asking do you think this is so people know ? People learn from it . Do you think people should be wiser ?

Speaker 2 39:29

The result of that .

Speaker 1 39:29

People listen to you .

Speaker 2 39:31

The result of the situation was that we had a chat and then we talked about making it work and we said if this works , I really there's no going back from it . This is all or nothing . This is all or nothing because I'm now going to be 40 next year . This is not a joke . We've already spent three and whatever years on and off dating , and so at this point this is a serious step . So let's really go at it and give it a try . And it didn't work out . Unfortunately , Now we don't talk to each other , so I guess it didn't work out .

Speaker 1 40:09

Yeah , it didn't work out so , but you also . You said you're 40 years of age and you're also a smart guy . So if you have your next class sales , you think I'm a smart guy , really Me Fine . I think if you have your next relationship , we're going to avoid from the beginning , knowing that what you know so far Like quickly .

Speaker 2 40:32

I think it's down to . There was a lot of disrespect , I think in the last relations Do you have any examples Apart from the ones you ? Mentioned . I don't want to slag off anybody on this . This is not why , however . However , examples of disrespect , I think , are , well , you know , laughing about engagement rings , for example . That might be why .

Speaker 1 40:55

Yeah , that kind of , that kind of like you know .

Speaker 2 40:59

I think it's about you know the true test . I think you know . I think most relationships are very blissful , very you know , you know cordial at the very beginning . In fact , most are Not all of them In the beginning . Yeah , you know in the beginning and I think you know the true test sort of comes in within a couple of months of being together and you might have a disagreement .

Speaker 1 41:23

All living together .

Speaker 2 41:24

It's about it's really about how you communicate when you're disagreements . It's about how effectively are you guys able to ?

Speaker 1 41:30

Not just that .

Speaker 2 41:31

So who is Okay , let's do this , or have a discussion where you have a different opinion and I think , if you can have a different opinion and you can't like sort of be okay with that , yeah , and that is definitely a , you know , a tell all sign that you need to run for the hills .

Speaker 1 41:44

Do you know who was the bossiest ? The bossiest Out of the two ? Oh , the other one Okay , because I think that's .

Speaker 2 41:51

Well , I mean I say that he probably would say the same about me actually .

Speaker 1 41:54

That's the thing you know . You don't know the other person's version of it , but from what I've known you so far and from what you've been telling me , I don't think that relationship was meant to work . But who am I to say ? I mean ? But do you think he was the bossiest ?

Speaker 2 42:08

In what way I think it would have Listen , and I don't want this to be a podcast about .

Speaker 1 42:14

No , but it's about toxic relationships and my question is would you take no for an answer ? Because that's very toxic and that's the sign of toxicity ?

Speaker 2 42:24

Would you take no for an answer that people don't realise ? I am actually trying to think about that . I am . You're not going to be there by six , best friend , I think he was very bossy . Oh God , yes , I think he was very bossy . I actually don't think that he would have taken no for an answer . I think it was his way to the highway .

Speaker 1 42:40

Okay , do you know what ? I'm going to edit this out ? You can't just be attacking him for no reason , because I know what you're doing right now . Yeah , I did it out .

Speaker 2 42:48

I did it out , by the way . I need to . What did my phone say ? I need to ?

Speaker 1 42:53

You got like three messages , or four or five or six . Okay , right , okay , robbie , yeah , so right now you're not in a relationship mood , so you've been having your fun , you've been going on dates .

Speaker 2 43:06

I would say I'm in a relationship mood . I would say that I'm going on dates to get to know people Right and hopefully there will be a spark , there will be something that will happen .

Speaker 1 43:14

But what do you want out ? Of ?

Speaker 2 43:15

this , I think when I said the beginning of the podcast , which was to I would like a best friend , an equal , someone who I can spend time with , someone who understands me , someone who will take me out to dinner , someone who goes to the movies with me , someone who will travel with me . Yeah you're in a relationship . Basically I guess so . But I mean , what is a relationship like to find it philosophically ? I don't know what is a relationship .

Speaker 1 43:43

Let's get philosophical , Because I think if I've had my traumas , I gave my exes some traumas . I mean just being real . I'm sure you did girl , but I think that's unfair Because to the next one , and I don't want that to happen . But reality is it's going to bleed into the other relationships . Your traumas will Not yours personally , but my traumas will bleed into the other person's relationship .

Speaker 2 44:04

That's why everyone should do therapy .

Speaker 2 44:06

That's what I'm going to say I really believe that there is not a human on earth that should not be in therapy . Therapy is really good , even if it's just to have a neutral point of view , someone , a neutral listener , just to listen to your issues Like a therapist , listen to you talk , whether there's issues on or not , whether there's trauma on or not , whether you've been traumatized or not . It's just good to have an objective point of view , because your friends are always going to say things that you want to hear . You know you're .

Speaker 1 44:39

And we never listen to them , do we ?

Speaker 2 44:40

I mean your true friends probably won't like , push you back on you a little bit , but , like generally , your friends will take your side and that's why you're there . Your friends and your family will do the same . So you essentially create these bubbles of reality because you surround yourself with people that are supportive of your viewpoint , of your experiences , and will stick by you and will stick through whatever space that you've been through .

Speaker 2 45:05

So it's really important to have a sort of very neutral , a very objective sort of point of view that is able to balance things out a little bit , because that is probably the truest answer that you'll get from someone .

Speaker 1 45:14

Yeah , completely yeah . Okay , ask me your worst .

LGBTQ+ Stereotypes and Food Relationships

Speaker 1 45:19

Just one last question about relationships , because this has been really really informative . I really I've really enjoyed it , thank you . When do you know a relationship is over ?

Speaker 2 45:29

When do you know a relationship is over ? When you have to ask that question . When you have to ask that question , when you say , you know , does he love me , does he really care about me ? You know , when you start having those doubts , you think that's the beginning of the end . It's sustained . I think that's the end . I think when you get to a point where you're like , is this going to last ? You know , does he love me , does he actually care about me ? When you're asking those questions , you're in some serious , deep shit . I mean , like every relationship is different . There isn't like a Bible verse . You know , playing on words , going back to my sort of religious beginning .

Speaker 2 46:10

But there isn't like a Bible verse you know in terms of when , exactly precisely , the relationship is over , because every relationship is different . But I do think that if you're at the point where you're asking those kinds of questions , that you're in some serious deep shit .

Speaker 1 46:22

You're telling yourself subconsciously that you need to do something about your relationship .

Speaker 2 46:26

You're saying . You're saying this doesn't feel right . There's something in me that doesn't feel balanced . What do I need to do to fix this ? And that's also interesting Is it really you ? Is it the other person ? You can't ever control the other person . You can't force someone to love you . You cannot force anyone to love you . You cannot force anyone to want to be with you . So when it's over , it's over and the best thing to do is to walk away . Unfortunately , you know it really is . I know a lot about relationships with someone who's failed at so many .

Speaker 1 47:03

No , but that's how you know .

Speaker 2 47:05

That's also like , it's how you get up , you know yeah .

Speaker 1 47:09

Let's talk about the LGBTQ plus and then we'll wrap this . Okay , shoot me . So I'm just going to talk about stereotypes . All right , let's get a bit controversial .

Speaker 2 47:20

I like a bit of controversy . Go on .

Speaker 1 47:22

Yeah , so do you think we , so to speak , we live up to our reputation of being very poor Pramishers , pramishers being very fickle in relationships and careless in a way . Because what do you think ? Because I don't share that opinion , but tell me yours .

Speaker 2 47:43

That's interesting and I think there's probably an element of truth in that . There's probably elements of exaggeration or positioning from wider society , some perspective from wider society or misperception from wider society that has fed into that as well . I do think that we in the LGBTQ plus community have had a lack of sort of people to role models because we haven't had marriage until globally until the last couple of decades .

Speaker 2 48:17

So it's a very new concept for us . So our world is still sort of coming around to that , and that's a huge societal shift . Whether you like it or not , that has changed the playing field a little bit . Some people have agreed with this , some people don't . Whatever your politics are , it has shifted the way that people receive relationships , the longevity , whether trying to get out of it , what the purpose is , et cetera , and so forth . Is it to heteronormative whatever ? That's a different debate .

Speaker 2 48:44

What I'm saying is that the effect , the implications that having equal marriage within the LGBT plus community has had an impact . It definitely has , and I'm one who's 100% in support of it . On the other hand , I do think that technology , the advancements that we've had in tech , in dating apps , in all of that has become so ubiquitous across the board , and it's not just gay relationships but straight ones as well . People have become a lot more sort of . I think their behavior has changed because things are more disposable , things are . You're able to sort of have a turnaround more quickly . You have more options . Everyone has more options these days , whether you live in Zimbabwe or whether you live in California . You literally have these apps now that make the options that you have out there in the world in terms of dating , much more sort of flexible , but it also makes it harder to find the one right , because there's not too much to choose from .

Speaker 2 49:55

So okay , let's use this analogy . So think back in the 1960s when they had black and white TV and you had five channels and there was always something to watch . There was always something . I grew up in the 80s and we had , I think , eight channels , 10 channels , and we always found something to watch as kids and we loved it and we had a great time and it was wonderful . Today you have thousands of channels . In fact , you have an infinite amount of channels because you have on demand TV .

Speaker 1 50:21

And you spend more time browsing . You spend more time looking for the right thing and you're satisfied .

Speaker 2 50:26

And that's exactly what has happened to relationships as well . We treat everything that way today . We treat everything as though it is disposable onto the next , onto the next , onto the next . What can be better ? What can be better ? What can be better ? We're obsessed with that today and that unfortunately feeds into everything from food choice to relationship choice .

Speaker 1 50:46

Yeah , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 50:47

To choice , to choice , to choice , to choice Anything that has a choice .

Speaker 1 50:50

There's more in the menu , there's more in the cart , so we're .

Speaker 2 50:53

It's like a buffet of opportunities that you Imagine coming to a buffet and they've got burgers and fries , or you've got a buffet and you've got every food in the planet . You'd sit there with every food in the planet , probably a lot longer thinking about what the hell do I want to eat ? I have no idea . And you probably would end up getting a little bit of everything and then moving on to the next because you'd want the next thing . You want the next thing , you want the next thing , you want the next thing when you're in that buffet , when you're in that buffet .

Speaker 2 51:16

But if you've got burgers and fries and that's all you've got . You know ? Yeah , let's , you're going to enjoy that burger a lot more .

Speaker 1 51:22

Let's go with that metaphor . So while you're in that buffet , you're missing out on the Alakard restaurant next door ? Yeah , you know what I mean . So you're probably looking at it in the wrong places as well , you as in you and I . Anyone .

Speaker 2 51:35

I think technology is both a curse and a blessing . It's allowed us to do a lot more and advance in a lot more ways , but I think having this much choice actually the whole thing about technology is it's not natural . It's not natural . Our evolution has not kept up pace with our developments .

Speaker 1 51:54

I blame ourselves because we created this . We have Not robots . The robots didn't create this .

Speaker 2 52:00

We did With AI . They're about to start creating stuff .

Speaker 1 52:02

Yeah , but who created AI ? Yeah , exactly , it was a program . Ok , let's end this on a really light note . Ok , so let's talk about the name of our podcast . What's your favorite food ?

Speaker 2 52:15

My favorite dish . My favorite dish ? Yeah Well , I didn't talk about my race at the beginning , but I'm a quarter Italian , I'm a quarter African-American , I'm a quarter German , I'm a quarter English . I grew up eating Italian food , though and I'm from New York , of course , you know , so I would say my favorite food on the planet is lasagna .

Speaker 1 52:35

Which you cooked , which you cooked for your friends , and I was there .

Speaker 2 52:37

Which I cooked and I think it's a great lasagna .

Speaker 1 52:39

And you mentioned your grandmother . Why ?

Speaker 2 52:41

Josephina Borisi , but she is a Josephine plat . She was from Sicily . One of 13 children came over . Was she in Golden ?

Speaker 1 52:52

Girls .

Speaker 2 52:52

I think they immigrated sort of to that .

Speaker 1 52:53

That one was from Sicily .

Speaker 2 52:54

Oh , was she . Oh yeah , the little one . Yeah , I remember you talking about the glasses .

Speaker 1 52:58

Yeah .

Speaker 2 52:58

Yeah , exactly .

Speaker 1 52:59

Nice . Do you have any recommendations in London ? Because we both live in London , so why do you go ?

Speaker 2 53:05

In terms of food places , yeah , Well , I'm going to the house of Momo tonight , which is a lovely Indian place in Doulston , and I think it is actually some of the best Indian food I've had . It's just a little dinky place like there and I think it is actually incredible .

Speaker 1 53:18

Is that where we went ?

Speaker 2 53:19

We went yesterday , we went on Saturday . Yeah , we did Love that place .

Speaker 1 53:22

Yeah , yeah . What about your favorite drink ? It doesn't have to be alcohol Margarita , apart from this Portuguese wine , amargarita Margarita . Yeah , ok , ok .

Speaker 2 53:30

So , every time I go on holiday , my first drink is a margarita .

Speaker 1 53:35

Have you had a cup of tea ? That's my favorite .

Speaker 2 53:37

I used to be my favorite , no , but when I went to Porto I had a Portotinto , portotinto .

Speaker 1 53:43

Portotinto , ok , ok .

Speaker 2 53:45

Which was really good . Actually , I loved it . It's wine , right ? No , it's port with um .

Speaker 1 53:49

Yeah , wine , port wine , oh port . Yeah , sorry , port is wine yeah .

Speaker 2 53:53

That's right Port with um fizzy , what's it called ?

Speaker 1 53:58

Is it kind of similar to Sangria and Tinto Verano ?

Speaker 2 54:01

It's almost like the Portuguese version of Sangria .

Speaker 1 54:04

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I don't think I've had it . I don't think I've had it before . Do you know why ?

Speaker 2 54:07

this Sangria and Tinto Verano . Do you know why this tooth in the name is for ?

Speaker 1 54:11

it ? No , I don't . Oh , is it because one of them has spirits in it , like vodka , sangria ?

Speaker 2 54:17

They're actually the same drink , but it's only a regional difference in terms of the language .

Speaker 1 54:20

Oh , it is so .

Speaker 2 54:21

In the south they call it Tinto Verano and in the north they call it Sangria .

Speaker 1 54:25

And in Madrid , which is central , they call it Tinto Verano . Oh do they do .

Speaker 2 54:29

Oh , they do All right .

Speaker 1 54:30

Ok , yeah , at least they did when I was there .

Speaker 2 54:31

I don't know , I've had too much wine .

Speaker 1 54:32

I don't know , I don't know , I don't know , I've had so many glasses of wine .

Speaker 2 54:34

Doner Melinda is killing you , I'm always upside down . I may be saying this the wrong way .

Speaker 1 54:39

Robbie , I really , really enjoyed having you all over . Thank you so much .

Speaker 2 54:43

I have really loved being here . Thank you so much for having me .

Speaker 1 54:45

How was your experience ?

Speaker 2 54:46

It's been great , actually it's been . This is my first podcast , actually , so I must say I have found it really fluid and easy and lovely and you've been a great host . Thank you so much for having me on the show . Everybody you need to sign up to this podcast because it is yeah , it's great . Oh , thank you , I'm back and I've listened to them and it's just amazing , so thank you so much .

Speaker 1 55:08

Let's end that now On that note . Thank you so much , everybody . See you next time MUSIC .