Ever wondered how Freemasonry has evolved in the age of social media? Join us in this episode as we dive into this intriguing topic with none other than the Most Worshipful Jeffrey Foster. We apologize to him for a previous recording mishap and express our gratitude for his grace and the wealth of wisdom he brings. Our conversation unfolds into unexpected territories, from the power of brotherhood in Masonry to the peculiar journey from aviation to military computers.
As the talk progresses, we gain a deeper understanding of the cycles of Freemasonry and the impact of discipline, particularly for young men becoming husbands and fathers. Our esteemed guest, Most Worshipful Foster, shares valuable insights on planning and continuity in Masonic lodges, shining a light on the importance of these elements in ensuring a smooth transition between lodge years. The discussion also touches on the perception of Freemasonry, conspiracy theories, and the critical nature of self-reflection when passion seems to wane.
This episode serves as a compendium of Freemasonry's essence and values, beautifully articulated by our guest. The narrative journey fosters a deeper understanding of brotherhood, unity, and respectful communication within the lodge. We wrap up this episode with heartfelt thanks to those who have supported us and a reflection on the impact of our duties. Our candid conversation with Most Worshipful Foster leaves us enriched and enlightened, ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that Freemasonry presents.
Tune in to our insightful dialogue and delve into the captivating world of Freemasonry. It's not just an episode, it's a journey into the heart of a timeless fraternity, made alive by centuries-old traditions and the indomitable spirit of brotherhood.
Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Ever wondered how Freemasonry has evolved in the age of social media? Join us in this episode as we dive into this intriguing topic with none other than the Most Worshipful Jeffrey Foster. We apologize to him for a previous recording mishap and express our gratitude for his grace and the wealth of wisdom he brings. Our conversation unfolds into unexpected territories, from the power of brotherhood in Masonry to the peculiar journey from aviation to military computers.
As the talk progresses, we gain a deeper understanding of the cycles of Freemasonry and the impact of discipline, particularly for young men becoming husbands and fathers. Our esteemed guest, Most Worshipful Foster, shares valuable insights on planning and continuity in Masonic lodges, shining a light on the importance of these elements in ensuring a smooth transition between lodge years. The discussion also touches on the perception of Freemasonry, conspiracy theories, and the critical nature of self-reflection when passion seems to wane.
This episode serves as a compendium of Freemasonry's essence and values, beautifully articulated by our guest. The narrative journey fosters a deeper understanding of brotherhood, unity, and respectful communication within the lodge. We wrap up this episode with heartfelt thanks to those who have supported us and a reflection on the impact of our duties. Our candid conversation with Most Worshipful Foster leaves us enriched and enlightened, ready to embrace the challenges and opportunities that Freemasonry presents.
Tune in to our insightful dialogue and delve into the captivating world of Freemasonry. It's not just an episode, it's a journey into the heart of a timeless fraternity, made alive by centuries-old traditions and the indomitable spirit of brotherhood.
Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Hey Chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason? That's a really good question, fred.
Speaker 2:You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join Chris and I as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft, from the common gavel to the trowel. Nothing is off the table, so grab your tools and let's get to work. This is On the Level. All right, chris. Hello, where's the holler? There it is.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Sorry, you asked for it. I asked for it, it's my fault, I get it, I get it Wow.
Speaker 2:What on earth? Today is a big day for us. Today is a big day for us.
Speaker 1:It really is. We are able to right a terrible wrong.
Speaker 2:It's a great day for our sins and ignorance of the past Mine especially.
Speaker 1:No, it's a team thing.
Speaker 2:It's a team.
Speaker 1:We fail together. Only one of us three is innocent. In this group you can hear him laughing. You know who it is Most. Worship will Jeffrey as Foster Morning. Good morning sir.
Speaker 2:Many of our fans don't know that during Grand Lodge communication most worship will Foster was one of our first interviews. She was the reason we were doing these interviews. Absolute reason for it and, of course, the sound engineer me neglected to push save when I closed out his particular file and, of course, the machine did exactly what I told it to do it erased it, yeah, so it was gone and we could not find it.
Speaker 1:We sure spent months looking at it, we sure spent months looking everywhere to try to see if we could find it, and then Chris and I are like well, now, what do we do? We have to apologize.
Speaker 2:We're going to have to get ahold of him and tell him how dumb we really are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in 20 years you'll find it to be the lost recording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, the lost recordings of. On the Level with Fred and Chris.
Speaker 1:The original Unedited. No, we appreciate you coming and being a huge sport. Yeah, absolutely Huge sport for us. So go ahead, chris. Yeah, I mean, we interviewed you at Grand Lodge on the first day, I believe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was definitely the first day Yep.
Speaker 1:Our second interview actually Hayber.
Speaker 2:Right where Hayber was first yeah.
Speaker 1:Then most were full after that, and then we said oh, we know what we're doing.
Speaker 2:We really didn't know. We had a chance to get to the Grand Lodge?
Speaker 1:Absolutely no. But you know that was such an awesome experience because I didn't really know the weight of what we're doing at the time. We just wanted to interview people and like, tell their story and talk about who they are, but realize later it was awesome. So many people in the state we know the names, we know the titles but we don't really know the person you know. A lot of people in the state are afraid to go to a Grand Master at a visit and shake their hand and strike up a conversation.
Speaker 1:And so all they know is the Grand Masters words they get read at the visits and whatever the Grand Master says at the visit if they go. So I think this just has turned out to be an awesome way for especially the members of Florida to get to know the Grand Lodge people, the men behind the jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:It was so eye-opening to talk to everyone we talked to and, like I, was just shocked at the time, like, wow, this, you aren't who I thought you were going to be Right.
Speaker 2:Right, you guys are like real people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Real people, yeah, and I can add to that if. Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely I don't think I don't think I know any past Grand Masters or up and coming Grand Masters that their feelings would be hurt if you didn't come up and shake their hand.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the reasons.
Speaker 3:You know we're nobody special. We're just at the front of the pack right now and you know, pretty soon we're going to be at the back of the pack with everybody else and you know that that makes us one of, you know, brothers. So there should be no reason why anybody doesn't want to come up and shake Grand Lodge officers hands because we're not. We're not anything special, we're just just brothers in a position?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, and I found that to be absolutely true. We just had our Grand Master visit Sarasota Saheb shrine, yeah, and you know, I I was feeling that same feeling most that you were talking about going up and, you know, talking to like as a brother you felt most hesitant, right, right, I maybe I shouldn't, and I?
Speaker 1:myself or whatever is going through your mind.
Speaker 2:Right and, and of course, our current Grand Master, most Worship Bishop was, was just so gracious and, like you said, he's just a regular guy. I can tell he's the kind of guy and I would just venture to say most Worship will foster that he's probably kind of cut along the same cloth maybe, as you are where very direct, you can tell, and I can tell too by talking to you as well, most Worship will that you guys are really direct, which I for one absolutely appreciates. Yes, because I would assume it's from your guys. His military background is where that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure. Yeah, they learn not to make sure.
Speaker 3:I know that our current Grand Master loves it when you come up and asking for five dollars, just go up Inside baseball there we that's as good as done.
Speaker 2:We will definitely do that. We're hoping to interview him. I know a setup when I hear what that's.
Speaker 1:A setup, a setup.
Speaker 2:I'm willing to fall right into. Okay, just for fun, absolutely, we're going to hopefully interview him and and the first lady when, on their first visit down to the Shrine Home, down to the our. What am I trying to say?
Speaker 1:the.
Speaker 2:I know I went right out of your head. I saw you had it and it just left. Anyways, the the Masonic home. Thank you, masonic home in in.
Speaker 1:I was really in St Petersburg.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll interview him then, and that's one of the first things we're going to do, of course, is ask him if we could borrow five dollars immediately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, on the air, get his real reaction to that. Curious to see what that's going to be now, but his wife Odessa she had such an interesting like situation this year. I'm sure you've been to some of their visits right most wishful.
Speaker 3:I have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she. She printed out bios of every member in our district that is in the Masonic home and she gave speech about the people and how she do things for the people, not the floors, not the walls, but the people. And it really struck me I think she got like choked up a bit when she was.
Speaker 3:I mean this absolutely some well they so they live real close to the Masonic home. I mean they're there in that. They live right there in Clearwater okay, right outside St Pete, so she has the opportunity to spend a lot of time at the home and she's she's become very what am I trying to say? Very, very close with a lot of the residents of the home.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah, and you know I've done a little bit of work in different, you know homes and retirement villages and it's, it's addictive. You go in there and those people are so they just want to. They just want to sit down and have and talk with anybody about anything, be engaged, and when you do that I don't care who you are. When you do that, it just it changes you. So I can only imagine her going in there.
Speaker 2:She seems like a woman with a big heart to begin with who goes in there, yeah, yeah so she's been totally captivated by it and I'm, for one, I'm really glad, because you know, we hear all these things about the Masonic home, this, that and the other, and all this stuff and all this man are trying to fix the walls and paint the ceilings, and now here comes the first lady who goes in there and brings that. You know, hey, these are just, I just want to help the people and I, just, as soon as she started talking about she was she was pretty emotional about it, fairly emotional about it when she was talking about it. So so was the whole crowd. We all just were like you know what?
Speaker 2:okay, fine, that emotion probably some conversations that need to be happen, that need to happen about the system. But she's right, there are people in there who are right that we're obligated to love and take care of man and I just love that direction. So that interview is going to be really good. I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:I think when more people hear that they'll get a lot more money for the for the cause this year because it's just such a people are going to connect with that message big time yeah, I'm, I'm resident to give up anything Masonic anywhere.
Speaker 2:I know that, like for us, for instance, the Sarasota Saheb shrine. That building has been there for a long, long time and they really struggle.
Speaker 1:They almost lost the thing and they were definitely on the verge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fact that they're on the ascendancy and actually actually out of the red and into the black and making, making definite progress in the right direction. It it? I feel the same way about that masonic home. It's been there forever, it's ours, we're obligated to take care of it. I would be, I would be. It would take a lot to convince me to go any other direction.
Speaker 1:But keep that thing right where it is well, the Saheb shrine was about to lose everything and they didn't get an influx of members. They didn't get angel investors. The leadership changed. That's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the leadership change that's what it yeah, yes, sir, absolutely, and that's a great point, chris. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Leadership can change everything. Good leadership, strong leadership, that is lifting everyone around them up right, everyone starts to rally and you get momentum and that momentum solves a lot of problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Well, most worse will tell us what's been going on in in so far in your year. How is retirement? Yeah, how's retirement going so?
Speaker 3:retirement is great. I do miss, you know, traveling around, but I don't travel as much as I used to. I kind of stay in the background. I try to to limit myself, you know, to what I'm, what I'm actually going to do. Actually, I have a house that was neglected for four or five years, so I'm in the process of trying to redo all that we'll pray for you, brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it, I need it.
Speaker 3:I'm getting more involved in local events. You know, right here in north Florida, scottish Wright, other bodies just just trying to. You know, take time and do things that I want to do, not that I need to do you certainly earned that.
Speaker 1:So you yourself graduated high school in 1981. Is that right, correct, correct? And then you went basically right out of high school into the Navy.
Speaker 3:I took the summer off and, a matter of fact, in 10 days, 42 years ago I believe, I showed up at boot camp wow what was boot camp like for you?
Speaker 1:I never went into the military, so I'm always like you know, we always like regret the path not taken. I started having kids at 19. I didn't have time for the military, but looking back, I wish I would have maybe taken that path first, because everyone that I meet that is a military person is just different than the rest of us yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:I really admire some of the treats well you get, you know you get thrown into a different, a different culture, a different environment and what most people are used to, because in a military environment you're getting input from, you know, different people from all over the country, so there's just not one one social environment.
Speaker 2:You're getting it from all over the place so you develop your own and most people don't get to see that yeah, yeah, that's right yeah and you're at a young age, you're put into, you know, difficult situations, you know, and confronted by other personalities and responsibilities, right away you know. Like you said, you were right at a high school at the right old age of 18. There you are, you know, in a gigantic system. You know, and then you have to have to learn to deal with it and to the discipline and all that where me, at the right old age of 18, I don't know what.
Speaker 1:I was doing or where I was going, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's absolutely I and for me it's definitely a missed calling. I regret. I sat at 19 years old, I sat in the Navy Recruiters office and was ready to go and I backed out like a coward at the last minute and I've always, always bitterly regretted that. But anyway, that's me.
Speaker 1:We're not here to interview Fred well, when we see, when we say, navy, you were in naval aviation, right, did you actually fly planes, or?
Speaker 3:were you just no, I did not fly. I started out working and then, through a series of consequences, I guess I'd say I ended up taking care of log books and aircraft, manus, discrepancies, and it was pretty much an office job for the last 18-17 years of my naval aviation career so yeah, so administrative in there, and that's probably why you made such an early age probably why you were as grand master.
Speaker 2:You know that's probably. Those skills were probably quite handy inside that realm.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I get that on paper you have the textbook life. So you served in the military.
Speaker 3:You got out and graduated from Jones College in 2001 yep, I figured out early in my naval career that the best way to get a college education was to let them pay for it. So that is true there were a lot of late nights, you know, going to work and then going to school and coming home and getting up and doing it all over again oh, you had to work through college.
Speaker 1:It was well worth it.
Speaker 3:What kind of work were you doing at that time? I was in the Navy yeah, so I would work during the daytime and went to school at night yeah, and what did you go to school for?
Speaker 3:when I first started attending college I had the notion of getting an aviation degree. So I went to Ember Riddle and then I transferred duty stations and I got involved with a couple guys, couple shipmates of mine, that were heavily involved in the early stages of computers, and I changed my minor, or I changed my major rather, to computer information. So I was within, I think, 10 or 15 credits of graduating with a bachelor's degree in aviation maintenance when I changed and had to pretty much start all over again.
Speaker 1:So I've got a lot of credits you were mainly interested in computer science, right, I was. I got involved with a couple guys that were early computer users, and it just took off from there it seems like your whole life was busy at that kind of time in your life because you were in the military. You're getting an education. You actually got married at some point in that time frame, right?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, I got married two years into my naval career right, and then you had which was probably one of the big deciders of why I continued on instead of getting out to support your new wife yeah, she liked to have a supper on the table, you know, so that was the way I could do it well, it's true, when a young man takes a wife and starts a family at a young age, man, it tends to cause that young man to step up, you know, and to take responsibility, you know. That's why, in the world of art, you know, art is a art. That's a part of our history. About history young men got married young, you know, because it was one of the ways to get them to focus you know, nowadays the average, the average man is getting married in his late 30's and I think it's working out all that good but that's a conversation for another show I would assume January of 89.
Speaker 1:January of 89. That makes him a-a-quarius Probably.
Speaker 2:I'm-I'm not up on my Okay, yeah, that's a whole other thing, not either.
Speaker 1:So that was all-I mean you were-you were a young man when you were doing all that. You're in the military, you're getting education, you're married. Now you have a kid. That's a lot of responsibility early in life, and is that something you kind of always wanted, or did that just happen to you?
Speaker 3:Um, I think-you know, I think the good Lord just said, you know, he-he put things in my life when I needed them, right, I don't-you know. I-yes, our son was planned. You know, I was-in the Navy. You go from sea duty to shore duty, to sea duty to shore duty and uh, you know, holly and I had discussed that I didn't want to have a child and immediately go out to sea. I needed to be around to help out. So we were getting ready to come off of sea duty and go to shore duty and I knew I was going to be around for three years. So, you know, we kind of planned that out and, uh, I think it worked out well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, my youngest son was a submariner, um, and uh, he's eight years. He did eight years in there and he-he was-he was torn between it. You know, because you know those guys are out for three months straight, oh yeah, um, and under the water and um, he loved it, but he wanted to have a family and um, and he knew that that's not-he didn't really want to. You know, have that. There's a lot of guys who are submariners who do have that where their wives you know the picture of the water, the wives you know the picture of the wives sitting at the dock waiting for the boat to come in Uh, he didn't want-he didn't want that.
Speaker 2:So that's why he-he got out, um, at eight years and started his family. He's actually-he's-he just got married, uh, two years ago. They're just getting ready to have their first kid. So, uh, same thing. You know, it's just, uh, it's that. I don't know, man, it's that disciplined life. I'm-i'm so grateful that he decided to go into the military, like he did, like I'm sure you are. You know that it-it-it gave you all of those advantages. You know that-that a lot of us, you know, didn't take advantage of. So what-what-what do you see? Um, most worst-ful Um, where-where are we at currently? Um, you know, as far as masonry goes, um, you know what's, uh, what's the-what's the good in the bad. What do you-what do you see What's-what's-what's positive of late? You know, so far, we're what? Eight months, uh, into the-the new year, here, Um, on a grand lodge. I'm not asking you to, you know, con-you kinda are, but I'm kinda asking-you kinda are.
Speaker 2:I kinda wanna know from a past grandmaster current, you know, past grandmaster um, where-what do you see? What's the positive, what's-what's going on? That's-that's good. That's positive about, uh, our craft.
Speaker 3:So you know, with-with everything, uh, there's always cycles. Nothing is ever just steady, right? Um, everything goes to a cycle, and-and free masonry is-is no exception. We go through cycles, we go-we go up and we go down, and um, currently, I see free masonry on an uptick myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I wonder how they got on an uptick.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe more-more social. Foster had something to do with that, right.
Speaker 3:Well, so when I was grandmaster you know, every grandmaster was a-was, a-was, a-was, a-was. Every grandmaster wants to go into office and say, all right, how am I going to leave my mark on the fraternity Right? Um, there are some that-that say I'm going to do this and this is what I'm doing. And then there's a lot of others that say you know, what are we going to do? So when I became grandmaster, I got the grand line and-and we-during my deputy grandmaster here as we were traveling around, we-we talked about it and we-we interviewed quite a few brothers and, of course, we all know that Brother Chris rose to the top because he had a program that he was doing um in his lodge, where he was using social media to get the word out about free masonry.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 3:And I thought I was like, wow, that is so brilliant. Because you know, if you look in a newspaper, back in the 50s, 40s, 30s, lodges took out-there were little places in the newspaper that said, hey, our lodge is meeting on this night and we have a stated meeting and we're going to do some business, or you know, and back in those days that was how people got information was through a printed newspaper. Now it's not so much. I mean, everything is pretty much digitized, everything is online. Yeah, um, yeah, they're whole-.
Speaker 3:So you know the newspapers. You know very, I don't you know, when I was a kid, one of the jobs that I had was a newspaper boy Me too.
Speaker 1:You know I'd deliver newspaper. Make good money doing that for years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know that anybody ever does that anymore.
Speaker 2:There's a car that drives by early in the morning at my house and throws newspapers to selected houses out of their car as they drive by Really. Yeah, I mean the New York Times will do that. Still, it won't be much longer. Yeah, Now, of course, you know the New York Times as it goes, flying out of the car will break your driveway, you know? Because?
Speaker 1:it's huge as it is.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a gigantic waste of paper.
Speaker 1:It's not slowing down right. They're just zipping by and throwing them out.
Speaker 2:Right, but anyways, yeah, your point is well taken that you know you helped spearhead that the new medium for reaching people was digital. You know and it's a digital medium that you were instrumental in helping Chris bring that to the forefront. You know Before that.
Speaker 3:I think that's the other way around. I think Chris was instrumental in bringing that to the craft because through his efforts of you know, holding classes and you know, at first he held them in person and then he went and had Zoom informational classes and you know he spent a lot of time. And I'm going to you know I'm going to put Chris out there.
Speaker 3:You know he spent a lot of time with individual lodges, helping them develop their own program and show them what to do, and a lot of it. If they followed his advice and his instruction, I'm going to say they were pretty successful on it.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to, I'm going to blow the horn of a lodge here in my area, Table Lodge number 116 in Greencoke Springs, florida. They were on a downtick, they were really, they were struggling and they got a couple of brothers in there and one of them is Earl Hagenbotham, brother Earl who oh, we know him went to Chris's, went to Chris's class and learned what to do, and you know, the man with the most infectious smile and free masonry. Oh yeah, earl is he's.
Speaker 3:He's very unusual and a great mason and a great brother. But you know he took that on and you know, yes, grand Lodge and Senate advised it and we said, hey, if you go and spend, you know this amount of money, well, reimburse you. So the lodge didn't really have any. There wouldn't have a downside for a lodge to try this.
Speaker 1:You really gave them. No reason to say, no Right.
Speaker 3:Every reason to say, we'll give it a shot Right and brother, earl, took that on and you know, the last time I talked to him he had, I think, eight brothers in the pipeline going through getting their degrees to become members of that lodge and it's been a great program and one of the things that you know I don't want people to forget is that you still have to guard the West gate.
Speaker 2:Right, that's right.
Speaker 3:Just because somebody can fog a mirror doesn't mean they're going to make a great mission. So this program just brings them to the door, and once they get to the door, the lodges need to weed those people out that are not going to make good masons and not let them join. But I mean I could be wrong. But I see an uptick in membership because now people are starting to realize it. There are a lot of young men out there right now that are searching for what freemasonry could offer them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they don't know where to look.
Speaker 1:No, they don't even know where to exist. They've never heard of freemasonry, right they?
Speaker 3:don't know the questions to ask. So you know, when you put that out there and you bring them to your front door, you know that gives you a great opportunity to do what we're supposed to do make good men better, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's right, and I won't take credit for that, because you came before you were the grandmaster it was the year before, I think, you were there. You came to our district and I don't know if you said this at all of the visits, but you said something that I there were two of us that stood up and gave you a standing ovation and I'm sure you didn't even notice, but we were like so happy to hear your message. It was.
Speaker 1:It was a difficult time for our country. This is, I think, the beginning of the severe division we were starting to have and people were really drawing lines in the sand online and being pretty aggressive in the way they were talking. Oh yeah, and it was really frustrating because I see a lot of masons that have their names on trestle boards and you know are known to be masons. They are showing it all over their profiles on social media and they would say things that could be pretty offensive to people and you know, as a leader representing Freemasonry, people that aren't masons don't know if they're speaking for the fraternity or themselves as a person. So it gets really confusing. And you stood up and said, hey, do me a favor, just spend 10 seconds thinking before you hit submit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Post it on social media.
Speaker 1:Maybe just don't say everything that comes into your head, maybe think about a different way to phrase it or be a little more, you know, friendly and think about brotherly love, and to have resonated with me, because I was really struggling at the time with what I was seeing from my own brothers.
Speaker 3:Oh well, and that's you know. That's where that really struck a chord with me is I would you know, I have a maternal brother, an actual blood brother, and I would never go up to him and say some of the stuff that I was reading online, yeah, I would never say to him in his face, and I'm pretty sure that the people that were writing that stuff would never say that to somebody's face, especially their brother.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely or you know whatever.
Speaker 3:But you know they were willing to put that out there online and have their brothers read that stuff, and you know, then then you got to try to go sit in lines. And you know there's a good reason why you don't discuss religion or politics in Lodge, because it is very divisive and it just brings turmoil. So for us to live in peace and harmony. You, just you don't do stuff like that. And that's the mess I was trying to get across to brothers and to a point I think it worked.
Speaker 3:Either that or people stopped letting me read their Facebook pages.
Speaker 1:No, no, I think you're right. I think people took notice because you're such a like everyone loved you. You just have a personality that exudes some kind of a.
Speaker 2:It's a leadership quality.
Speaker 1:It's like an authentic, honest, like you said, straight shooting person, and that is something I think everyone's drawn to when they're in a leadership role, when they feel like they're getting.
Speaker 3:I think it was just I've brought it to their attention that hey, you know you're you're possibly creating a bigger divide, and they thought about it and agreed and said yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a new culture within, certainly within our Lodge, of acceptance and you know that. You know trying to figure out how we can best work and agree attitude we in our Lodge have. We have a kind of a culture that says that you know, you can talk about anything you want in Lodge as long as it's done with gentleness and respect for the other person that you're talking to, and that has kind of caught on. And we had a. We had an esoteric discussion group a couple of months ago where the hottest topics of religion and politics and you name it Sexual, orientation, sexual.
Speaker 1:It came up in a group of Are you guys?
Speaker 2:I think six of our of our lodges in our district were represented there, several sitting worshipful masters and even a couple of EAs in the room and we had this great flowery conversation about the hottest topics that at the end of the day, everybody remained brothers, no one was offended or hurt, it was a real conversation, it was a real conversation.
Speaker 1:It was amazing, it was a conversation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I caution anybody listening who thinks, yeah, I'm going to go try that right now. I would say stop and stop yourself and remember that you, any conversation you have within, within the lodge, or as a as a Mason in public, must be seasoned with that gentleness and respect for others, and sometimes gentleness and respect means just keeping your mouth shut.
Speaker 1:Just not saying anything at all.
Speaker 2:You know, because I have to. The attitude is is that do I do my words? Have my brother's best interest in heart? Sometimes it's better just not to say anything and just put your arms around a brother, you know, and just agree to disagree and or just move on to something different. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and unfortunately, in today's society, we we've lost that ability to to have a conversation. You know, we're quick to to bring ourselves down and and we, you know, respond with insults or violent um tendencies, instead of, you know, actually thinking about what somebody's saying and then responding intelligently, we just evolve right into well, that's just wrong and I hate you and your opinion doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we talked about that, I think, in our last podcast. We're going over some of the lecture things that we can talk about and that was definitely one of the things that came up is understanding. What we like to say is free masonry gives you training wheels for life. Yeah, because the system teaches you how to behave with each other, and you almost I mean 98% of the time when you're in a lodge or around a lodge and there's brothers, they do treat each other the right way. Right, they do, even when they're mad, even when they're not agreeing with each other. They've learned how to have respect for each other and like a little bit of tolerance for each other, and so we talk about those are training wheels that at some point you got to take off and go out into the real world and do that too out there, and that was really the problem. You'd see someone in lodge and it's a different person than you'd see online. Who is that person? Oh, wow, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been kind of going through that with a well-known brother out there and just absolutely just dumping all kinds of hateful speech on his Facebook page.
Speaker 1:I mean it's a little bit. I've seen much worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean right, right, but when you know, when, hey, hey brother, can you maybe reconsider? You know that that kind of direction that you're going in, it's like, if you don't like it, you know, get off my page, get lost, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff, and it's just like you know we're. Our attitude is is, you know, you're still, you're still an active Mason and good standing. Therefore, you know, we owe you, we owe you respect, but we don't have to listen to it and we don't have to be a part of it, you know. So we, we decided to just move on from you know, from that that particular brother, and because that's all we can do, you know, we, we can't.
Speaker 2:I, we fighting each other doesn't get anybody fighting with each other doesn't get anybody, I think sometimes just stop talking if you're not like is that what you're saying to me right now? Because?
Speaker 1:that's a lesson I've learned you can't, you can't police.
Speaker 2:No, you can't, and I think this this podcast is dedicated to Chris comes from a center left viewpoint.
Speaker 2:I come from a center, right viewpoint, and the two of us have conversations all the time and I look forward to him. I look forward to him too. It's, it's, it's enriching, yeah, and we gain each other's perspective. You know, and, and he's, he can. He has the right to speak into my life and change my mind, and I have the same right to speak into his life. That only happens through you know what? The basics of free Masonry, man, where we treat each other as brothers. I have my bet. I have my brother's best interest at heart in everything that I do, and I mean, I say this all the time on the podcast where are you going to find a fraternity or an organization that that teaches that, that lives that? You're not going to find it anywhere else, and I think that's one of the reasons why, as we go online into the digital marketplace and show people what Masonry really is, it's probably one of the reasons why it's ascending so quickly, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know you get two things. One is going back to the brother. That's that's maybe inappropriate. Online, you can whisper wise counsel. Yeah, that's right, and, as as Mason's, that's what we're taught. You know, if you see a brother that's that's airing, you, whisper wise counsel. There's nothing that says he's going to take it. So you know, you give them the advice and they take it or leave it.
Speaker 3:So you know, you got to leave it up to them. But you know, even if there's only, you got to remember, going back to being able to talk to one another that even if there's only two of you, you're probably not going to agree on everything, right? So it's okay to disagree. It's it's how you disagree. Yeah, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of things that my neighbor and I don't I don't really know my neighbor, but I'm sure there's a lot of things that they do that I don't agree with. I'm not going to hate them, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you saw them in trouble and in need, you'd help them.
Speaker 1:Regardless.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Right. You know you'd put aside any of the, you know the those differences and you and you'd help them. You know, because that's that's the right thing to do. That's what it means to be part of the human family. You know we've we've so lost that in this country we are so divided. You know the left versus right ruse has, has, kind of has has infected every aspect of our lives, you know, and it's just become this. You know, you either, if you don't agree with everything that I'm about, then I can't, I can't help you, I can't be a part of your life, I can't be open to you, and it's just absolutely killing us out there.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just it's cut off All, all hope of any kind of societal healing cannot start until we get rid of that and begin to love our neighbor as ourself again.
Speaker 1:Well, more, more and more. When we talk to these brothers, this is something they really are looking for from the fraternity. They'd like oh wait, there's a safe environment where I'm not going to deal with this stuff that's out there in the world. Yeah, I'm definitely interested in that. Exactly, I think we have the answers here in the fraternity. We've just got to get the word out more now.
Speaker 3:Right right Because and the, the, the social media marketing program that you're very involved in, has done a wonderful job, you know, spreading the word and and and kind of putting that light out there, that says, you know, hey, come over here and let's, let's talk, and you know, because you're probably looking for exactly what, what we need, right.
Speaker 1:Okay, now let's go there. So you're talking about the Grand Launch Marketing Reimbursement Program that you started.
Speaker 3:Now, well, the the Grand Launch officers that were in office when I was Grand Master we started it.
Speaker 1:Sure, I was there the day I think it was born and you were definitely leading the conversation, I'll put it that way. And and so what I'm curious of because I saw unlike the the everyday man side of that story myself firsthand, I saw a Grand Launch officer that appeared to be doing something radically different than had ever been done and being quite bold and getting his entire line involved and them buying into it as well, which is an important part of leadership especially in.
Speaker 1:Freemasonry. But what I'm curious of is your side of that story. Did you get? Was it difficult for you to communicate your vision to people, or were they very accepting early on?
Speaker 3:and like how difficult was it for you?
Speaker 1:to get that kind of a thing going on from your side.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so when I talked to you know the Grand Launch officers, and and and other administrators? And said hey, you know, because I don't think there's ever been a Grand Master that's gone into office that says I want to hurt the fraternity. You know, we all, we all sacrifice a lot to get in line and say, okay, one day I'm going to be the leader, and that sacrifice is generally I want to help the fraternity. What, what, what can I do to make the fraternity better?
Speaker 3:when I'm out of office than when I'm going into office, and that was you know. I don't know what made me think of it or what brought it to you know, but I saw what you were doing and I heard stories and I said, you know, on a bigger scale, that that would help our fraternity, and I started talking to you know, the Deputy Grand Master, senior Grand Warden, Junior Grand Warden, the candidates that were, you know, trying to get elected, and they were you could see it in their eyes when you started talking to them.
Speaker 1:They were like, oh yeah you know that'd be a great thing to do so.
Speaker 3:we developed this program. You know the Grand Secretary and Grand Treasurer were involved and you know we all got together, put our heads together and came up with this program. And then the big question was to you, brother Chris, you know, would you be willing to help us out? And of course you jumped out on board and said sure, and I think that it's just grown immensely and it's doing a great job.
Speaker 1:It's a great tool that the Grand Lodge is providing to the lodges that they need desperately.
Speaker 2:I think it's a testimony to, to my partner's tenacity, because I spoke, I've talked to him over these couple of years about this, this program, ever since I became, you know, involved through his program. By the way, that's the reason.
Speaker 1:I'm here today.
Speaker 2:But it was that there was no way that this man was gonna give up. It was, he was wrestling that bear every single day and the bear finally said fine.
Speaker 1:Fine, it was magical for me when most Warshful Foster shocked me and took me aside. I was not prepared for the conversation we had, along with all the other Grand Lodge officers.
Speaker 3:Right, and I'm Mr Nobody over here I don't think it was more of oh my god, this, this guy's gonna ask me to do a lot of work and it's gonna take a lot of time and effort.
Speaker 1:Honestly the opposite. I thought. I thought in that moment what did I do wrong? What did I do to cause this? Like this is not good. There's like four guys here with gold collars. I don't think this is normal and I was really scared, but yeah, it turns out it was a good conversation.
Speaker 2:It was a, it was a course changing conversation. It really changed the course and I think I think we'll look back on that that conversation that started, the whole thing that brought you in Chris, and through the initiative that most Warshful Foster put together in his Grand Lodge, that moment, that movement was, was absolutely gonna be pivotal in in Florida, masonry, for the state of Florida and perhaps even even beyond, and I think it also ties into this this new movement towards continuing you know the five to seven year plan of the Warshful Master not just doing his thing and then leaving, but but taking, taking the mantle of the the five year plan that he came into and adding another year to it to push it forward, so that we have that continuity, you know, and that's a big.
Speaker 2:That's a big conversation happening right now. I saw it in Grand Lodge at the communication. That's most.
Speaker 1:Warshful Foster's mark also. I think he this is what you did here really did kind of bring that to the forefront of. We really need to look at continuation of certain programs that Master set up and continuity. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I preached that Our time was. We've got to stop inventing the wheel. Every year, we you know, if we got a good wheel, let's use it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's, it's, and I even see that in lodges.
Speaker 3:You know, I talked to the junior wardens and senior wardens, you know, and hey, what are you planning on during your year? No, I'm not planning on anything. Maybe I won't get elected. So, and I think and Brother Chris, you're probably experiencing this that from the times you get installed as a master to the time you hand the reins over to the next time, it goes quick. There's not a whole lot of time to think and implement stuff and you really need to start thinking about how are you going to better your lodge as senior deacon, junior warden, don't, don't wait until right before you get elected, because you're gonna run out of time real quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Oh, we've seen that firsthand. There are certain people I've personally know and been friends with, that started planning their year four years in advance, right, and they lined up like 25 huge things they were gonna wait until their year to do. And then their year came and it just exploded because the reality was right, your plans don't mean anything. If you don't, if it's not the lodges plan, your plans aren't gonna go far, right, and what?
Speaker 2:I see by the lodges plan is that the five to seven year ongoing plan is makes that possible. Yeah Right, because you and I I remember coming up to Chris on June, right around June 1st, and I and I don't know if this is true, you tell me if I'm I'm right. But I, I said to him, I said to him you know how's it feel to be six months into it, and he kind of looked at me like Holy crap, it's been six months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have I failed already. If it's six months, sheesh.
Speaker 2:It's like what.
Speaker 1:Wait, it's half over. Well, even now, like right after grand lodge, I've, shortly after, I feel like and you, I'm sure you understand most worst of all my thinking has changed towards passing it to the next year.
Speaker 1:Already I'm already trying to make that transition happen now. I'm not pushing my any kind of agenda. I'm I'm in a phase where I'm like getting people really ready to take over tomorrow and making sure the continuity is gonna happen, and I'm already trying to step back from things because I want it to be a hard transition when it happens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's a good thing. You know that the days of well, this is my year, we're gonna do what I want.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, the lodge is named just because you become Worshipper Master. The lodge is still gonna retain his name. It doesn't become, you know, jeff Foster, lodge number 267 right, well, I like the sound of that watch the Orange Park watch. You know I don't, because you can't have a. You can't have a large named after a living past grandmaster. So you know I named after you. You got to do one, three, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm not ready to do yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right yeah, but anyways, you know a lodge, just because they've elected you as junior warden, senior warden, where's your master? And and it even goes to, just because you elected as junior grand warden, senior grand warden, deputy grandmaster, grandmaster, you need the pressure, the paternity or a group as a whole, not just. You know this is my one year of a shine mentality, because that that does nothing for the fraternity and no yeah, that's right, that's right and, and we've seen it, we've seen it.
Speaker 2:Sure, we've seen some lodges in real, real dire straits, because the worst-fell master is literally trying to make it about him.
Speaker 3:It's amazing how much damage you can do in a short amount of time the shockwaves are literally reaching our entire doesn't take long, yeah absolutely all you got to do is is get in there and aggravate a couple brothers and they stop coming to lodging, you know. Then a couple more stop coming to lodge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have nobody showing up yeah, it's a volunteer organization and they forget that. You know that I, when I go to work and my boss is, you know, giving me a hard time about something, I can't just not come anymore, right, but here at lodge if it gets really bad, well I mean, I'm just, I'm just done. I didn't sign up for some guy yelling at me or or doing all of these politics, political moves and all that. I I have no tolerance for that and most men don't.
Speaker 1:We didn't come here for that well, it's too easy to vote with your feet yeah, absolutely exactly. Just say okay, if this is how it's gonna be, I'll just go watch TV tonight, no problem yeah, right, yeah, I'll hang out with my wife and once you do that two or three times, it's really hard to get them back yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3:Oh, it is, once you get out of the habit of, you know, going to lodge, it's real easy to get into the habit of not going to lodge, easier than getting into the habit of actually showing up. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:And what? Then? You end up with all the brothers that they pay, faithfully, pay their dues, but they just won't walk into the door. Yeah, we have a, we have a lot of brothers like, oh yeah, just they, they faithfully pay their dues because they they. There was a time when they were very active in lodge and something happened. Whether I'm not, I don't know her fault.
Speaker 2:It was a personal thing happened and they still have an investment in masonry. That's why they continue to pay their dues every year. But they're not right. They're not coming back in until somebody reaches out to them and says, hey, this is what's happening now and I'm hoping that our lodge has. We do have an initiative to reach back to active members, make phone calls to them. It's, it's. It's a little difficult, but we're slowly working through it and just trying to ask, ask brothers who are faithfully paying their dues for years and years but have not come to lodge. Hey, man, why? Why aren't you coming? And what? What can we do to get you back in? You know, and I, it's a worthy initiative. We have 380 I think it is 380 active members, so it's a big list to to go back through. But I know, I know I've signed up to do it, yeah, and a couple of other brothers have signed up to do it. We haven't seen a lot of fruit from it, but it's definitely something that's in the works. Well, what I found?
Speaker 1:cuz I got a list from the secretary and I've made calls. Early in my year I had this grand idea I'm gonna call every member personally as the master and a weekend. I got through about 15 names this year right but you know, and that's small sampling, there are two dead brothers, right right, that we didn't even know had passed and their their dues are still being paid by their estate right and we're paying per capita for them still and we never, you know, did anything for the family.
Speaker 1:It's just that I was really upset by that that's upsetting small sampling that I did. It even happened yesterday. I had a 50 year presentation come from Grand Lodge and I called the brother and his wife said he passed. He would have loved this but he passed I.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not good yeah, that's not good and that's that's something that we're working through in our lodge and that's part of the ongoing. Next year, when Zach is Worshipful Master, he'll have to deal with it as well. We're just gonna keep. We're gonna keep working through these issues because it doesn't stop when Worshipful burns hands a mantle over to up-and-coming Worshipful Zach.
Speaker 1:Weebly, weebly, thank you, sorry, zach that goes back to what more Swishful Foster said in the beginning with the social program. He cautioned be careful about the Westgate yeah, that's right so anybody you let into your lodge can become the master of that lodge that's right and it's our responsibility. We're not advancing people just one chair by one chair.
Speaker 1:Because you did the time, you have to think about who best can work for the lodge yeah, that's right exactly and if you see problems like, recognize it, don't let it just go, because we've seen that in a few short months a problem in leadership can do damage, is gonna take years to fix.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely, it can destroy a lodge yeah, and I know it's hard to come out of a hole once here in it, and so that could put him in a tailspin that really could take the lodge down completely if it's not fixed yeah, well, because it's a whole year and when you say you know it could destroy a lodge, that's a very real statement because that person is in, in in charge for an entire year and you can do.
Speaker 2:You can do terminal damage to a lodge in the years time for sure.
Speaker 1:It's just like our country. You know, we have a beautiful country, a beautiful system of government, right, almost perfect document that we guide ourselves by, and through people having an idea that, oh, it's fine, it's always gonna be fine, we're always gonna have this. No, no, to protect it, we might not always. Yeah, it's the same for our lodges. I know there's a. I see so many people that think, oh, I was here for so long, it's gonna be fine. I think people say that and it makes me so mad. It's not gonna be fine if you think not.
Speaker 3:I am.
Speaker 2:I visited go ahead good.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry but you can. You can find, you know, go to some of the lodges that have real small numbers after me. You know that were there towards the beginning of remasonry in Florida the Grand Lodge and just visit yeah, and you know attrition, and you know I'm trying to think of another word.
Speaker 3:But as masons we get into a rut. You know, we elect somebody to the east and and they don't. They don't want to do this and they don't want to do that. And you know the next thing, you know it, you've lost what you're supposed to be doing in the lodge and it becomes, you know, just another meeting, right, and the next thing, you know it, your membership is not showing up, just for another meeting yeah and we've kind of lost that a little bit in our in masonry.
Speaker 1:We need to get back to it it's the culture, really the exactly we need to, and that I mean this is why I wanted to talk to you so bad. You get it, you get it we. You know that I, when I was coming up in the line, I thought people were crazy for starting to plan their year years in advance. I'm like, look at how fast things are changing. I'm not gonna have the same logic in four years that I'm sitting in today and I don't even know if I'll make it there. So every idea I had, I brought it up to whoever was the master. We tried to do it.
Speaker 1:So in my when it came time for me to be in the chair, I had no agenda because you know, every idea I had, we already tried or implemented yeah and so my whole push for our lodge was just to maintain the pureness of free masonry as much as we possibly could, and that's what we wanted for our line this year and and to start our five-year plan was to just get back to the most basic tenants of free masonry, that we're gonna love each other, we're gonna be passionate about free masonry and we're always gonna act like masons, and I think that's where you have to start, right, you guys start at the beginning.
Speaker 1:You got to deal with the culture before you can deal with the lodge building or the membership problems. If your culture is not right, you can't fix anything else. That's right yeah, and.
Speaker 2:And culture is changed by by by changing hearts and minds. That's how you change exactly. You can't mandate it from on high, because it's not gonna work. You're only gonna reinforce people's stubbornness by trying to make them do something that they don't understand through, through clearly defining what it is that you'd like to do and engaging people where they're at. You know, with that, with that mindset of hey, this is our lodge, do you do? One of the questions we ask people all the time is do you care if your great-grandson is a member of this lodge? Would that be something that you would work towards? Does it matter to you if your lodges here in 25 years? Does that matter to you? And that's, that's part, that's the mindset and culture we're trying to instill in people. It's like this this is your lodge, but it's also your great-grandchildren's lodge.
Speaker 1:If you'll have it, if you'll work towards it, you know, yep yep, this is beautiful, beautiful gift to humanity that, like it, takes a lot of work to keep it protected that's right, and we're we're actually kind of behind the eight ball.
Speaker 2:We want to keep it protected, but we have to first. We have to rebuild it, so to speak. You know we have to get back to that place where you know our lodge 147. If you look at the newspaper clippings of the 19, you know 1950s and 60s. That lodge was in the paper every weekend man.
Speaker 1:They were active in everything. Yeah, the mayor was a mason, yeah of the of our lodge.
Speaker 2:You know, and it just it's, it's not that way anymore. There's a famous picture in our, in our local newspaper from the late 60s where the the masonic parade was going down Main Street and it was massive and everybody came out to, you know, to participate in this masonic, you know, the lodge parade and and and it was active in the community and stuff and and we, we got to get back there, we got to get away from hiding behind all of the misinformation and cowering to it. You know we're, we're real bold on on telling people what masonry truly is. You know that we're not a conspiracy, we're not. You know, we're not this, we're not not any of that stuff it's one of the main missions of our podcast, really we that's right.
Speaker 1:Every time we record, I imagine I'm talking to somebody that doesn't know anything about free masonry. That's right. Yeah, and try to make sure because it is for masons. Obviously they want to talk about esoteric stuff, but in my mind, you know, when I was before I was initiated, I consumed all the stuff I could to try to understand it better. Right, and there were certain YouTube masons who were making content for people like me that aren't masons, to tell them things that they, right, understand, and so I I think that's really a good way we can try to get ahead of that a little bit. We kid, because there's a lot we can be open about absolutely, and a lot of brothers don't understand that.
Speaker 3:You know that. Oh well, we're a secret society, that we're not really a secret society. We have secrets that society doesn't know about right but you know, there's a lot of organizations that have stuff that that only members know pretty much every organization. If I think that, yeah, there's always something that's not public right, but you know free masonry is it's been around for so long that you know there's a lot of conspiracy theories and a lot of this information. I think it's only because we've been around for so long.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's a lot of information that people should know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're in a day and age where a conspiracy theory goes a long way online Everybody wants to see. Oh my goodness, lots of clicks and views, Lots of clicks and stuff, Subscribe, and I know that the conspiracy stuff is not helpful for our cause, but I gotta be honest and I say this all the time. I just I kind of dig it.
Speaker 1:It is a double-edged sword.
Speaker 2:I kind of like the fact that they look at me a little mysterious.
Speaker 1:I got some family members up in North.
Speaker 2:Carolina, who just totally don't get it, and I'm more than happy to let them keep thinking what they're thinking Just give them a little wink.
Speaker 2:I was up there visiting and we were getting breakfast and the one family member I'm thinking about there happened to be a brother Mason, in line to pay to leave the restaurant. I could tell because he had a tattoo on his back calf. So I went up to him and I shook his hand and just said brother, it's good to see you, brother, it's good to see a brother up here in North Carolina. We kind of did the chest bump and shake thing as I walked away.
Speaker 2:I could see them looking at me like what did you just do?
Speaker 1:Your family, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:A couple of extended family members because they think they truly buy into this entire Illuminati thing. It's like you know what I'm gonna. Let you go, go ahead. I can't believe that, even though you've known me since you were a child. You've known me since you were a little kid. You know my faith, you know my conduct, but go ahead. You can listen to the online guys, as opposed to listening to your uncle whatever.
Speaker 3:There you go Along the same lines what I was telling in my early days Masonry people would kind of approach me and talk about that same line of thinking. You know, oh, you guys are the Illuminati. You know you have this great treasure map somewhere and I would always just kind of you know, look at them and go. So you know George Washington was a Mason, ben Franklin was a Mason. We've had astronauts that were masons. Do you think that those people would be as great as they are if they really followed those lines of what you're thinking? They are, yeah, right, and you know they kind of. You know you could sit in a little like flicker in their eyes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and maybe it's true. It is. It is absolutely true. And I mean fantastical thinking. It kind of lives in that online orb, right? So this fantastical conspiratorial thinking and you bring it into your head and it lives in your head until you meet someone like us and we ask questions like that. Think about what you're saying. You know for a second, you know.
Speaker 1:Let me just bring two simple facts. You've known me forever. All of a sudden, I started eating babies.
Speaker 2:one day All of a sudden, I'm eating babies and doing things with goats. And it's like, and you can just see them deflate a little bit. There's a little bit of disappointment, like where, wait, wait? You mean it's not a conspiracy, you mean it's just a bunch of men trying to lift each other up so to better society and themselves and their families.
Speaker 1:That's no fun, what is?
Speaker 2:that I don't care about that.
Speaker 1:It's true, I have family like yours and it's fun in a way. I'm sorry, it's just a little bit fun. You can't really engage people that have a preset. You know, it's really not wise to, in my opinion. No, you're right, you don't want to enter into it, because then?
Speaker 2:you're just, you become like them. Yeah, that's what it says in Proverbs right, if you argue with people like that, you tend to become like them. If somebody's watching you, the word is fool. That's a pretty harsh word. But if somebody is watching you trying to argue with a foolish person, that person is going to say to themselves look, there's two fools.
Speaker 3:Right, and you don't want that Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a lot more fun because they'll you know, I got. I was obsessed with learning the ritual work. After I learned all that and got all the Prophesie cards, I was like what else can I do in my life? So I started to learn the piano, something I not really learned, but I memorized.
Speaker 2:Oh he learned it.
Speaker 1:I didn't learn it, I just memorized. I kept the memory thing going. And my wife's family, you know they have a piano in their house. So one day I they know I'm not a musical guy, but I sat down and played a little bit of classical music, you know, and they were like whoa did the Freemasons make you do that?
Speaker 1:That's the kind of stuff I get from them, Like they'll just randomly and they're talking about, like you know, the cost of that, uh, avocados, and then be like what did the Freemasons think about that? Wow.
Speaker 2:Well, when we're sacrificing the Virgin, it's important to have avocados.
Speaker 3:Exactly, you got to have fresh avocados.
Speaker 1:It's just amazing what people think out there. And you know, like you said, it's just, it's a little fun in a way. You don't really engage. I'm not going to represent Freemasonry to people. No, that's right.
Speaker 2:It's, it's. There's a saying in the, in the scripture, that talks about casting your pearls. This is another harsh saying, a harsh word I don't mean it the way it sounds, but casting your pearls among swine, in other words, taking what is precious?
Speaker 2:taking what is precious to you and is important to you and and casting it before people who have absolutely no desire to understand it and no concern whatsoever for how much you care about it. It's unwise. Don't do it. Yeah, you know, just just be, be discerning and take for for Chris and I and I know you as well most worshipful Masonry is important to us and we're very passionate about it and we, we think it has, it has something to offer society. So to to to cast it before people who simply blow it off or want to disrespect you or it is not, it's not wise and we don't, we don't engage that. We, I, I love them. They're like I was talking about my family members. I love them to death. I do anything for them but honestly, I am not in the market to share with them something that they're simply not going to, they're not going to understand or want to understand in any ways. You know. So it's, it's. I don't know. I don't know why I got off on that rabbit.
Speaker 3:Well, well, and so, if I can, yeah you can. That is why, along that line of thinking, why we don't solicit membership and Freemasonry, we wait for somebody to seek it out, because if, if they're looking for it, those are the type of people we want, because they're going to embrace our way of thinking.
Speaker 3:If you try to convert and that may not be the best word to use- if you're going to try to, you know, to, to to convince somebody that doesn't want it that this is who we are and this is what we do. They're not going to really accept it, right, and that. That that's why you know, with with what you were just saying, that's why we wait until somebody comes to us and says you know, tell me about Masonry.
Speaker 2:Right, because then they're in a, they have the mindset and the humility to to be taught. They're teachable. At that moment, you know, and then, and then you know. You just simply share the facts with them. You know about what it truly is and it works. It really does work, because I mean, we see all kinds of guys coming in, yeah To us, and but they're very desirous of understanding how Freemasonry can help them understand the world better. Right, right, yeah, and it's. It's like you said, because they had a sighting.
Speaker 1:So it's like we're so lucky. It's just wave after wave of these people who are such high quality people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're. We're making new Masons every month. It's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I couldn't have imagined this, like four years ago. Yeah, it would have been unthinkable what we're doing, oh yeah, what we're seeing.
Speaker 2:It's, it's because the the program is, is it initiated or has kind of stemmed from? Uh, wershful Burns here Most.
Speaker 1:Wershful Most.
Speaker 2:Wershful Foster here, but the it's kind of we're at the fountainhead here and, uh, we get the full benefit of the system. And, of course now Chris has been blessed with a lot of brothers who have come alongside him. Yeah, john Schaefer in one of them shout out to John, who has really just picked up the mantle, on on on doing the Sunday open house and uh, you know calling these brothers every week, every time we get, we get names, you know, off off the system. He calls them right away, he invites them down, they come down and he, he, he schedules people to join him, like I was down there the other day with him and they sit and talk and give him a tour and give him a, you know, a basic understanding of what it is, what they can expect, and then hands them a petition and uh, he's, he's like uh, 80% of the petitions he hands out come back.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's happens when you work a program properly. The grand lawn these are the tools grand lawn is providing us. All we have to do is work them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then and then, continuing along that same line, what, what? What happened was we just got bombarded and you know where I'm going with this. We got bombarded with new petition, with new candidates and all of a sudden, we needed mentors, we needed, we needed catechism instructor, we needed, we needed to engage them, we needed to do masonry correctly so that it would engage them more and more into the ritual work and into the, into the line and all of the, the serving side of it. So we've had to, and we have, go back to creating the, the proper Masonic structures, right Back to the basics, back to the basics within our house, to make sure that when those men come in, um, they're properly mentored, uh, the catechism instruction is done correctly and properly, um, the degree work is um is our, our degree, our degree work is getting pretty good.
Speaker 2:I gotta say it's it's really starting to, it's really starting to get, get good, we've got um, our, our, our degree team.
Speaker 1:Well, we have a state competition team. That the competition team is largely made up of some 147. Yeah, some 147, which is really anyways. The point is is right. I know that we're just bragging. Now we're just bragging.
Speaker 2:Well, I, I can't brag. I'm, I am, they stuck me they stuck me in as junior warden because it's very easy in the EA Um, but I am the turkey flying with these Eagles Cause there are.
Speaker 1:Nothing is easy when it comes to competition. No, it's not easy, I'm not saying it's easy.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying it's easy, but I am thankful that I was not asked to be, you know, senior, senior deacon or something that requires actual skill, because I am. I am struggling, but you know, we've got. We've got uh uh, right worshipals and uh past uh, uh, deputy grandmasters and inch past instructors and um, and then there's me the two year master Mason. So it's, it's. I am honored, don't get me wrong. I'm absolutely honored and I am doing my best to step up and make sure I don't let anyone down, but it's, it's a. Really, this is a clearly a rabbit trail. I'm going to um, the, but it's, it's. It's clearly been just an absolute privilege and and absolutely just uh, caused me to want to be in degree, do degree work more and more and more, and I'm going to try to tie this back to where we were is that the, the degree work, uh being involved within the lodge and do the lodge work is what makes Masonry.
Speaker 2:Uh, what makes Masonry exciting? And it's like I've said before on the show it's like the. The cure for Masonry is Masonry.
Speaker 1:Sure, you know doing Masonry correctly. There's nothing that needs to be invented, or?
Speaker 2:we don't need to invent anything. Just do it right, exactly, and, and they will come. You know, because it's awesome, it's exactly what men want, you know exactly.
Speaker 1:May I ask you some personal questions before we go? Sure, not too terribly personal, but I'm I'm really curious. Uh, before you became a Mason, which for you was, uh, 2004, if I'm correct Uh-huh, and so you had. You had a life. Obviously you lived a full life before you joined Freemasonry. Was there anything in your pre-Masonic life that you think really set you up for what you became in Masonry, working through all the chairs, you know the district, and then becoming a grand lodge officer and working through the grand line and serving as the grand master and now, for the rest of your life, being an ambassador for Freemasonry, like before you became a Mason? Was there anything like an event that you can look at and say I think this really, like was the start of what I was going to become is a Mason?
Speaker 3:So I don't know. I mean, it was always, I guess, predetermined that I was going to join the fraternity. My great grandfather was a Mason, was master of Maddoine Lodge in New Jersey. My grandfather was a Mason, my dad was a Mason. So you know, just following in lines and I look back and I say you know, my dad, um, he was one of those guys that if he told you he was going to do something, he did it. There was never any question about whether or not it was going to be done.
Speaker 3:And when I was young, I never really, you know that never occurred to me, that never really, you know, popped into my head. As you know, he didn't need something in writing, you know, to say he was going to do it. If he shook your hand and said that, you know, I'll sell you my house for $10 and he shook your hand, you were buying his house for $10. And it took a little later on in life for me to realize, you know, those traits in him. But as I grew up, as I matured, I was like, you know, I'm going to do it. I saw those traits and I was like those are the traits that I want to anything and I can say right now, my dad will tell you I was a rotten kid. Well, exactly, you know, and one of his favorite sayings is you know, there were times where he wouldn't even trust me to count nails in a barrel somewhere.
Speaker 3:You know, but I, I Think you know, join in the military and and having a good work ethic instilled in me, and you know the some of the traits that that get instilled to you Serving in the military. You know you have responsibility and now you have authority and responsibility. You know, coming up and and one of the and I'm gonna digress a little bit but one of the things that I was I will eternally be sorry for was that I didn't seek masonry out while I was in the military. Earlier, that you know, I missed out on a lot, but I didn't know. You know Cuz yeah, my dad's an old-school Mason and you just you don't talk about masonry. So I never really knew what I was missing Until after I got it, and then it was like, man, I wish that I sought this out earlier. But you know, I always thought, you know, I was in the military, I didn't have time to to belong to an organization and do anything, because I didn't know, I was ignorant.
Speaker 3:And and I tell people anybody that'll listen. You know, if you ever thought about being a Mason, you need to seek it out as early as possible, don't. Don't wait until Till later on in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that? No 100%.
Speaker 1:Ever since I've joined, there's been people that I'm like a Drawn to, like a moth to a flame, because they're just great men. There's something about them. They're just great men and like you're talking about.
Speaker 1:You can smell authenticness and that kind of like Inserity. And all of those men. When I and I do ask them, is there anything you regret or you wish you would have done? And they always say what you just said I wish I had started sooner yeah, that's absolutely. They all say that I just wish I had started sooner because this has been the greatest thing in my life.
Speaker 1:Yep and they've served so much and given so much. But all they talk about, like you, is what you've gotten out of it, what it's given you, and all I see is, wow, you've sacrificed a lot. I think that's the beauty of your time and you know a lot of sacrifice for something and and that's what I think the outside people don't get is you're getting so much from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:It's not money You're not getting your. I'm sure you haven't enriched yourself as a Mason or through Mason not financially.
Speaker 3:I know, but it's, it's all been a labor of love and you know it's. I Would give until I can not give anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's it like, like we say all the time, masonry is what men are looking for. It's a, it's a you know. It's a band of brothers. It's you know. It's us holding each other up something greater than ourselves, and you know our ritual work and the things we do, the teachings, the, the working tools, the understanding and enlightenment that Masonry brings to a man's mind, within the context of being surrounded by brothers who are like-minded, is exactly what men are looking for. It's how God created us. He did not create us to be alone, fighting by ourselves, because a soldier who fights by himself is is going to die there. It's a guaranteed fact. But if you are strong within that regiment of Now, I'm talking like a military guy. I don't know how or why, but yeah, we're stronger together, I feel it. I was in, I was sitting and we were doing an EA degree. The other day, man and I was sitting there in my chair as part of the degree team and I swear I could become emotional.
Speaker 1:I was over it, yeah, and it was just like I love this, some special man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love these brothers, they love me, and this is what when the ritual work is good, you know you're.
Speaker 1:You're getting an experience that hundreds of years of people have gotten right just as good as you did. Yeah the magical about getting to be part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so you recognize that. So if you're, if you're listening to this and if you've listened this long, a good on you, you're. You're a hero to us.
Speaker 1:They'll listen for hours because most wishful fosters that's. That's right. That's right. Yeah, we have the ultimate hook, but yeah, if you're listening and you're not a Mason.
Speaker 2:Please we say it all the time go down to your local lodge and talk to them and find out what they're about. Feel the energy for yourself feel the energy for yourself, get involved. And if you are currently a Mason and you're saying to yourself, well, I don't see any of that stuff at my lodge, there's a reason for that because you haven't done anything about it yet, so get exactly get busy.
Speaker 2:If you see the need, be the need, that's. If you see it, be it, go, do it, get inside your lodge and and make some positive changes and reach out to us. That's what this podcast here is for. We will help you. We know some, we know, we know some big shots, man I got people, man.
Speaker 1:So here's another one for you. That was, and thank you for that, but you okay, we're talking to a man who is a military guy, has a family, join the fraternity, literally worked through every chair. He was the secretary of the lodge. For what was it? Six years. God bless you sure.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep became a district deputy Committeeman right, went to the grand line. Like he did everything the hard way, the way you're supposed to do it. Earn the respect of everyone. Blaze trails with the social media campaign. You really, I think, were instrumental in part of what is happening with the Prince Hall Situation. Oh, god bless you. Like he's done just so much.
Speaker 1:And now, as a past grandmaster, the part that pains me is that these Men have a sense of I need to not I need to go into the background and be in the shadows now and it's like such a Loss of the fraternity. I think that you can't be as engaged as I wish you were and out there, but now you're here on our podcast and I would. I'm, you know, you are a real person, you're a man and you're you love this fraternity and you know potentially everybody in the state of Florida that maybe are masons, but don't even go to lodge, don't go to the Grandmaster visits. You have an opportunity to talk directly to them. Is there anything you would say to those masons out there?
Speaker 3:The only thing that I would, I would encourage, is, if you are not Passionate about free masonry, do a little self-reflection and ask yourself why have has that flame extinguished itself? Because you were obviously passionate enough to seek it out. What happened to get that flame to go out? Why? Why did it go out? And then do something About that reason and see if you can't get that flame reignited and and make your lodge and Freemasonry better.
Speaker 2:Hmm. I love that yeah that's right and I like the the word self. Do some self-reflection. Yeah, take it, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean, where are you?
Speaker 2:at. Where are you at with this? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Stop pointing fingers at shadows and other things and look at yourself. What's, yeah, what's got you upset? Was it just a little thing? Was it just a person? Was it a personal situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah because I can guarantee you, if that's you out there, you're needed. We need you back. Yes, we need you back.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We need you, good and whole and strong, and back amongst your brothers and and pushing forward, because our country I Masonry has something to offer this hurting country and and I think that's a that's, there's just no denying it, and it's, it's, it's gonna happen, we're going that way, it's sending, it's growing and and we will see, we will see it back to its four oh absolutely.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm really encouraged because I've started to get an opportunity to travel more. I'm getting invited now to master mason Associations to speak about the Grand Lodge marketing program.
Speaker 2:Nice and you nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just at district 21, which is a huge district 14 lodges, wow.
Speaker 3:Yes, they take over a lot of square miles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's massive, that district, that poor, poor, right Worshipal Simpson has to make four visits to 14 lodges this year and they are not close together. I'm like I Doing an amazing job, but what really impressed me about that is this was a somewhat hostile crowd of the ideas that I was talking about, and the right worship will literally stood up and said listen guys.
Speaker 1:Nobody's asking the real questions that you want to ask. Ask them. He doesn't. He's not gonna get offended, you're not gonna upset him, he's not gonna melt, save what you want to say. And it turned into an hour-long discussion at that.
Speaker 1:Master mason associate the most passionate brothers master stood up and these guys have been working tirelessly for like a decade, turning their lodges around, almost single-handedly some of them, and it's really encouraging because you see how passionate the people are all Over the place about free masonry and there's just, it just takes like one really passionate person to completely turn around a lodge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Well, rally people. I'm looking at one.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about the brothers of district 21. Personally it was. It was amazing to me to see that and it gives me hope, because the the one that impressed me the most. You know he was pretty Hostile, he was not hostile. He had no problems telling me to my face what he thought about my lodge in the program. He said your lodges broken, brother, let me tell you and it's because he didn't understand right, that's why he said that.
Speaker 1:So I had an opportunity to communicate with a guy who had an impression that was wrong and we talked about. I said, brother, my lodges and broken. Because he said, yeah, 350 members, and you only got 30 people on the sidelines. That's horrible. I got 30 members and I have a higher percentage and I'm like that's great, but my lodges and broken. We've lost half our membership in the last decade. We had 600 members, right, yeah, right, I'm in the same situation as you. It's just a different scale of the problem and I'm the same as you. I'm, you know, one guy over here trying to change things and it's not easy and you know we started to bond over the same.
Speaker 2:We're the same right, we're the same. The only thing that was lacking was an understanding. An understanding, yeah, which? Which miscommunications?
Speaker 1:and misunderstandings. Right, love it. And when we talk about things and that's one thing I really have to say right, where's full simpson? Really impressed me. He, you can't shy away from the problems. You got to stay dead in the face together and talk about them. Yeah, the only way they're ever gonna change. Yeah, pretend they don't exist, you're gonna have them forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they'll take on a life of their own.
Speaker 3:You know which is always negative and and Put a little light on you. Now that you have spread that light and Shown them, it's only gonna take one watch. One lot is gonna start start doing good Yep and the other lots, you're gonna go Wow look at that watch. And they're gonna follow in line, yeah and the next thing, you know it, we're gonna be back to 80,000 members, yeah, a hundred thousand members, and it's gonna be because of the effort and time that you're putting in. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:I mean I was telling those guys like this isn't a silver bullet. Okay, there's no one answer to every problem, but this is a valuable tool right at the ground. Lodge is gifting you and if you don't use it You're really doing your own lodge into service. That's right. I think those guys that were really passionate and Worried about some of the aspects of it you know they're worried you're gonna let in riff raft and that's up to, that's up to the individual Lodge.
Speaker 2:You know it's like we said starting off you the Westgate man, you got it. We're not. We're not telling you to take the gate down, man. What we're telling you is to is to, is to open, open up a little bit, get some information out there. You know the men who have already. There are men out there who have Theoretically raised their hand and said yes, yeah, yes. I'm, I'm, I'm thinking about something along the lines of masonry and we're just, and this program just gets us in front of them.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:They've already they're already of a mindset, but they just don't have the information.
Speaker 1:That's all this is and the thing that those brothers don't realize, and I was able to successfully communicate to some of them is. You know, when you're in a situation where you only have 30 members, you're going to become desperate at some point. Yeah, that's right, and you will start taking anybody that can fog up a mirror, like most wishful fosters. That's right.
Speaker 2:Well, and so the great point, great point.
Speaker 3:You got to remember that Back in the early days Lodges were small memberships. It was not unheard of for you know a Person to be master several times because you know we didn't have mass Transportation. It wasn't easy to get into a vehicle and travel, you know, 40 miles to a lodge. Yeah, so you were. You're pretty much confined to just your local area and those lodges that are small have more of a family feel to them.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, if that's not the right words, I'm sorry, but no, you're um, but you know typically what your experience and where you have 300 members or 380 members and and you get 30 guys that's about Normal for lodges in Florida as they get about 10% their membership that attend, yeah, you know meetings and and do work in a lodge yeah, so that you know it. You got different situations to, because 21 is kind of more of a rural Right area. Yeah, we're, you're in more of a city area.
Speaker 1:That definitely was a topic of discussion, right yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, good, yeah, I'm glad that was a topic of discussion because you know, it's just different environments. Yes, you know you're the same, but you're not the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and that's one of the great things about the fraternity is that every lodge, although we're all masons, can have its own different culture and feel of course absolutely and that's okay, yeah, because you know it is, absolutely it is. Your lodge should reflect your community, right? Yeah, that's right. That's the beauty of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the beauty and that's the beauty of in visiting other lodges within your district and and outside of your district, being that, traveling, mason, because you experience, you know all the different cultures, all the different, you know People. I, I want to get out there. I wanted to go with you. So bad, but I had motor core that night I couldn't go. So I'm definitely going on the next one, yeah, well.
Speaker 1:I will not be denied. Yeah, we have another one coming up in another district and I'm really excited about it because these, like I tell them, I'm not running for any office here. I'm doing this because I love the fraternity, like you guys, right.
Speaker 3:There, you go?
Speaker 1:How do we? How do we move the needle? This is one of the ways and and yeah, so, that being said, you everything I just said to you you spoke to the Everyday brother out there who's not engaged. What would you say to the brother who is in the line, who's getting his MLT trainings? He's about to become an elected officer here in the next year or two. What would you say to that brother? Any advice or message you'd have for those, for those guys who are actually about to become leaders in our fraternity in the coming years?
Speaker 3:The only thing I would say is remember why you're in that position. When I was in the Navy, when we got, we got promoted. And then when you make the jump from E6 to E7, you know we would change uniforms. We would go from the working uniform to more of it tacky administrative office personnel uniform. You weren't down in the trenches Digging the dirt, but we were always taught when you made that jump, don't forget who got you there. You didn't get yourself there. The people that are around you Were the ones that got you to where you're at. So just remember when, when you become Orishful master of a lodge, you didn't get yourself there. You were helped along the way by the brothers of your lodge and you need to be there for them. It don't so, most fortunate. Well, turlington, my little buddy, when he got elected or was was was going through the line or Trying to get elected, he had a conversation with this virtual Bob.
Speaker 3:Trump and I used to like to kid around with it, because Bob Trump told him make sure the same size hat that you wear now Fit your head when you become grandmaster. Of course I, of course I always tease, tease my little buddy that you know you went out and bought a hat. There was two sizes bigger at that time. You know that I thought that was great Philosophical words of wisdom, that yeah, you know to make sure that your head didn't grow so large that you know, you forget the purpose of why you're there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is really to serve, is what you're saying, that's exactly. Yeah, right, do you know right? Wishful-duck dobs.
Speaker 3:I do great man.
Speaker 1:We interviewed him and he said the exact same thing you just said.
Speaker 2:What's right that?
Speaker 1:question yeah, that's amazing, good man, think alike. Yeah, that's right, great man, take a like.
Speaker 2:Well, on that note, most worshipful foster, we we want to thank you for for taking the time out to sit with us for this hour and a half conversation about the craft that we love, and yeah.
Speaker 3:I.
Speaker 2:I just I am, as a young I'm, you know, I'm a two-year master, mason, I think, maybe a little longer but not a lot miles.
Speaker 2:But I've had a lot of great experiences and I've met a lot of men that I highly respect, you being one of them, and I just I, just I echo what we said a little bit earlier. I just wish I had done this so much earlier in my life, and I think all three of us would agree when we say to anyone listening Don't wait, don't wait, investigate free masonry and and get yourself, get yourself involved and be a part of what's happening here because it's it, it, it.
Speaker 2:You're surrounding yourself With, with great men who have done great things, man and and you, you will never regret it, brother, chris, anything that you'd like to add before we sign off with most worship will foster.
Speaker 1:Let definitely like to give most worship will foster the last words and the chance to say anything he'd like, but I like to just say thank you also. You really Like I, had a passion for free masonry, but my involvement with you has lit it to another level. I mean I have a white, hot, burning heat for free masonry.
Speaker 1:This is true, nothing will stop, and you had a massive part in that for me personally. So I want to take this opportunity to thank you for that Personally. You were great master, a grandmaster and a great leader. Well, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you an example, but I Can I can reverse that and say that because of you we had a pretty successful year, you know, during my years, grandmaster. So you know it's a two-way street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not fishing for those compliments, but I learned from a wise man to just say thank you.
Speaker 2:And with that we will end another amazing Podcast of on the level with Fred and Chris. Our interview with most. Worship will foster most wish, will foster anything On the way out that you'd like to sign off to our, to our listeners. I.
Speaker 3:Just want to thank you guys for for having me. This has been a lot of fun and I hope to see everyone soon.
Speaker 2:Yep, we will definitely. Wherever you're at, wherever we're at, we will eventually meet and, of course, it will be on.
Speaker 3:The level I had to do it. So if you've listened.
Speaker 2:If you've listened to the podcast up to this point, you really are a hero of ours. If you have any questions or comments, please just Email us. Fred at, on the level with Fred and Chris comm or Chris at the same longest email address on radio for a reason, and Again, like, like we always say, or like we always try to say Now, now, now that you've heard what you've heard, go back to your lodge and build it strong.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Most work for you guys.