Does the thought of leaving a job you've held for years send chills down your spine? Join us for a candid chat as my co-host, Chris and I share our personal experiences on this unnerving topic. We discuss the ugly side of office politics, the toxicity that often comes with working in a place where your heart isn't into it, and the invaluable lessons we've learned about knowing when to take a step back.
Unearth the intriguing world of Freemasonry with us, where we shed light on the diligent work of Worshipful Masters, the controversial Article 501 in the Texas Masonic Digest, and the significance of proper care and respect for Masonic symbols and rituals. We share our admiration for the Grand Master of Florida, his unwavering commitment to his role, and our hopes to secure an interview with him in the future.
We wrap up our episode with a fascinating discussion on the writings of Albert Pike and other prominent Masonic authors. We touch on the necessity of being familiar with Grand Lodge material, the accusations that sometimes arise in the line of duty, and the importance of standing your ground. Join us in this enlightening journey through Masonic ideals as we learn from our mistakes, celebrate our successes, and pass on the wisdom to future generations.
Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Does the thought of leaving a job you've held for years send chills down your spine? Join us for a candid chat as my co-host, Chris and I share our personal experiences on this unnerving topic. We discuss the ugly side of office politics, the toxicity that often comes with working in a place where your heart isn't into it, and the invaluable lessons we've learned about knowing when to take a step back.
Unearth the intriguing world of Freemasonry with us, where we shed light on the diligent work of Worshipful Masters, the controversial Article 501 in the Texas Masonic Digest, and the significance of proper care and respect for Masonic symbols and rituals. We share our admiration for the Grand Master of Florida, his unwavering commitment to his role, and our hopes to secure an interview with him in the future.
We wrap up our episode with a fascinating discussion on the writings of Albert Pike and other prominent Masonic authors. We touch on the necessity of being familiar with Grand Lodge material, the accusations that sometimes arise in the line of duty, and the importance of standing your ground. Join us in this enlightening journey through Masonic ideals as we learn from our mistakes, celebrate our successes, and pass on the wisdom to future generations.
Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Hey, chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason?
Speaker 2:That's a really good question, fred.
Speaker 1:You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join Chris and I as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft, from the common gavel to the trowel. Nothing is off the table, so grab your tools and let's get to work. This is On the Level. There he is, the Rebel Yell, the Rebel Yell. I love it, I love it. It's gaining in popularity, I must admit.
Speaker 2:All over the world, people are calling for the Rebel Yell. Oh my God, it will be the Masonic greeting. Yeah, yeah, we are hot.
Speaker 1:Hold on, let me fix that. There we go. That's probably a little better.
Speaker 2:Woo, sorry about that.
Speaker 1:That's okay, we're excited. This morning I've had a lot of coffee and you're working on your first energy drink, or your second.
Speaker 2:It's my first Celcius.
Speaker 1:Oh, is that an energy drink?
Speaker 2:Well, very sparkling energy water, I think so it has more caffeine than my coffee.
Speaker 1:I know that Does it yes.
Speaker 2:It has Guarana extract instead of.
Speaker 1:Did you say guano?
Speaker 2:No, I don't eat bat poop yet. Some day maybe oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, folks, we are a serious podcast Eventually we are a serious podcast, excuse me, sir.
Speaker 2:I am not serious. Good day sir. How dare you call me serious?
Speaker 1:This is not serious, we are not serious about being serious. We are not serious about being not serious. It's getting deeper and deeper. Well, brother, how are you man?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I'm good, I'm good I feel like the shackles loosening on me. It is.
Speaker 1:It is man. You are two months and counting.
Speaker 2:Four meetings after this meeting today. Four meetings away.
Speaker 1:Four meetings away for your glorious year as Worshfall Master of. Sarasota 147, the mighty 147 in Sarasota. Florida.
Speaker 2:Yes, we did it. We got a lot done this year.
Speaker 1:I think we did man In hindsight.
Speaker 2:I was feeling down about it a little and then I started to try to cheer myself up and like maybe we did do stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you got a lot done. I think the unity.
Speaker 2:We did, we did. I got very little done on my own actually.
Speaker 1:Well, but that's the point. Yeah, right, you just, you're just kind of the orchestrator the facilitator of change.
Speaker 2:You know the Worshfall Master can't do anything that isn't approved by the craft you know Exactly Cheerleader and chief.
Speaker 1:Unless, of course, they're trying to interrupt your installation with charges at the last minute.
Speaker 2:What that would never happen, we'll talk about that in a minute. Never happen in Freemasonry. Not in Freemasonry, no way. Maybe not in Florida, but it does, it does happen.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So I've got a confession to make. I want to talk about it real quick. You know we here on the level of Fred and Chris. We try to be as transparent as we can be about things that go on in our lives and I got to tell you. Here's what. Something happened to me this week which revealed a lot to me, and I just I share this for any guy listening who's you know struggling with any kind of like not being transparent about your own struggle, your own Wait a second.
Speaker 1:Your own foibles, your own errors and or mistakes.
Speaker 2:What? Where's this going? Okay?
Speaker 1:okay, okay. So I went into work on Friday my work. I don't love my job, man I don't love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've noticed.
Speaker 1:You've kind of For some time I feel like the last six months I have been just hating it and I have been in complete rebellion to the call on my life to move on, Move on, Do something about this, Don't just sit there because you know you hate it and you're just. You're not doing anything of value for anybody. But I ignored it because I was comfortable, you know, and they paid me pretty good and all that stuff you know?
Speaker 1:Well, there's just a ton of office, intrigue, politics and toxicity in that place. That was just getting worse and worse and worse and as I checked out more and more, I became the target of. You know, the ship is sinking, so let's throw. Who do we throw overboard? Well, let's throw the guy overboard that isn't actually paying attention anymore and doesn't care anymore and it's like all right, all right. I came in on Friday after five years of service to this company.
Speaker 2:This is fresh.
Speaker 1:This is fresh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this.
Speaker 1:Friday and the operations manager who is not my supervisor came in and said, hey, I want to talk to you for a minute. I'm like cool man, he's all happy and cheerful, you know, and it's all good. And I get in the office like, yeah, I'm letting you go. I'm like what? And he's like, yeah, yeah, we're letting you go. And then it's as if he wanted to and I'll see you later, goodbye.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh no, oh no you don't, oh, no, you don't.
Speaker 1:You tell me why right now? Oh, you didn't let him off. No, I didn't let him off easy, of course not, and because I'm a man and he is not so he's like, well, just close the door. Then he had the door open as if he was going to like escape.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's like you know, brother, I've been here for five years. I've put up with your, you know, with the supervisor guy you got in the chair there, who's got some sort of version of Tourette's, because out of nowhere we're all sitting there working at our desk. He'll just start blurting out obscenities like effin, mother, blah, blah, blah, throw his phone and you know he's that guy. He's that guy, you know, but he's not big, he's he's. It's worse because he's not a big guy.
Speaker 1:He's a little Napoleon guy, that just goes off on people, you know all the time.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's more like if you don't stop, I'm really going to get mad Right. Yeah, that guy.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So I just made him explain what it's all about, you know, and he's like well, blah, blah, this, this, that. So I realized I was getting a little hot under the collar, so I backed off and I said you know what I, I, what I? What happened was actually? It was God, our father who who made me realize hey, hey, yo this is a good thing. I mean he'd been trying to tell you that, yes, god has been trying to tell me that to get out of there.
Speaker 2:You were doing a little na na, na, na na. I was doing yon yon, yon, yon yon Right.
Speaker 1:Everything's great, Everything is awesome and and everything was not awesome, Anyway.
Speaker 2:So I backed off.
Speaker 1:I just, I just calmed down, backed off, I said, all right, no problem, man, it's all good, and I and I got out of there and it was great. And all of a sudden my phone's ringing, you know, and I've got opportunities, I got lots of friends and brothers and I'm not worried about it. We had, you know, plenty of savings and God is, god is with us. Who can be against us? You feel the weight lifted.
Speaker 2:Lifted, I walked out of there.
Speaker 1:I walked out of there just feeling like a ton of bricks was lifted off.
Speaker 2:Loaded out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like this is such a good thing, you know. So because it was such a good thing, I couldn't resist the impulse to ruin it.
Speaker 2:Oh, don't tell me you went back. No, I didn't go back.
Speaker 1:But what I did is I was thinking well, I've got a bunch of stuff that I got to give them back. You know how it is. I got keys to everything. I've been there forever. I'm a, I'm a project manager, for good and sakes, I've got access to everything, keys to everything, I've got trucks and vehicles, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I got to return a bunch of stuff to them. So I went on Monday morning, I went up to my place where I work out, my happy place, and I'm up on the hill running and doing my thing, and this idea strikes me Well, why don't I just send an email?
Speaker 2:I'll just email them. And it's kind of explained a few things and let them know A nice, friendly, kind, nice friendly email, loving email.
Speaker 1:Loving email. I'll be sure and careful. I'll edit it. I'll have my wife read it.
Speaker 2:That sounds reasonable. That sounds reasonable to me.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I did. I ended up doing that. I sat down to write this email and the first draft of that email was just an absolute fire hose of, yes, fire. I was just like exploding all over these people and, of course, making myself look like Saint Fred who has been.
Speaker 2:is Fred against the world?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and and so I edited it down, edited it down, had my wife read it, edited it even some more.
Speaker 2:Added some self deprecation to.
Speaker 1:What I did is I told. I told the truth on myself and I told the truth on them.
Speaker 2:Well, that's good, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's good. Except the way I did it, man, is I just absolutely pulled, pulled the curtain back on all the dirty little secrets, like the first thing that I told them is that the general, the operations manager that came in and did this to me, yeah.
Speaker 1:They hate him. Everyone hates him, like bitterly hates him. And, as the story goes, this man, when he first started, like 11 years ago, was stealing from the company, not a small amount either. He stole a ton of money and material from the company and he went. The owner came in to fire him and he pleaded with him and pleaded with him and the owner gave him a second chance, and that was 11 years ago. He's turned it completely around and he's part of the company and he's actually a pretty good, pretty decent guy. He's not a very, he's not a great manager, but he's a pretty decent guy. Anyway, so this is, this is the cloud that's over this man's head and everyone hates him for it.
Speaker 2:Damn.
Speaker 1:And they just hate him for it. Well, I let I let him know and I named names about everybody who hates him why they hate him and the things they say about him.
Speaker 2:Not a good idea, oh no.
Speaker 1:Now there's been no reprisal, and I mean, everything's factual, and he may have already known it, but I just feel like why the hell would I do that? Why the hell would anyone do that? That's so dumb. I was free man, I was completely free, I was out. I mean they owe me a bunch of severance and stuff. I'm sure I'm going to get it. I mean, I'm not worried about any of that. I could have just faded away in happiness and satisfaction, but I couldn't do it, man. I had to throw this letter out there. I don't think I said anything. That wasn't true, but I guess that's the point. That doesn't always, that doesn't always fix it.
Speaker 2:No, no, in fact, you probably regret it a little.
Speaker 1:I do regret it.
Speaker 2:You do this good man inside of you going ah, darn it, that wasn't the best move. The ruffian came out you make yourself feel good in the moment.
Speaker 1:I made my ruffian my inner ruffian feel great, you know. And then afterwards I'm like, well, now the joy's gone.
Speaker 2:I woke up this morning I was on the high road and now I'm in the muck with these guys.
Speaker 1:So during my prayer and study time in the morning, I'm just like well, Lord, I blew it. This was stupid of me. So, whatever the consequences are, if there are any, I'm ready to face them. I mean, God is our Father and he is a loving Father, and so he's not like the Father I had where you know, love means you didn't piss me off today. That's not the kind of love that we can expect from God, who is in heaven.
Speaker 1:So I just went there Instead of running away. I went there and I said I think I blew this this one, dad. I think I totally blew this one and I'm still waiting to hear back from that prayer and whatever you know, whatever I got to do, but I want to learn this lesson. That's and that's the main thing. We all make mistakes, man. We all do dumb stuff. But at 60 years old, you would think a guy like me, would you know, having made this mistake before, would have learned it.
Speaker 2:But we don't, we don't, we don't you get kind of you're always learning, right, you're never not going to be a human being. No, you're right, how old you get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it. That's so true, you know, and even the 60 year old man can blow it, and just like you can still surprise yourself, you can still make progress and you're still blowing. You're still human. Still, we're still human. We've still got that rebel in us.
Speaker 2:The fact that you recognize it right away is a good sign.
Speaker 1:I instantly. I woke up this morning like oh no.
Speaker 2:Some people would wake up telling themselves more lies, Like yeah, you were right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to send a second email, an even better one.
Speaker 2:They didn't respond. I don't know why you're ignoring me.
Speaker 1:I don't know why you're ignoring me. You guys are jerks Did you hear what I said. I'm so right, you didn't go there.
Speaker 2:There's some progress to be had there. Imagine yourself, like 20 years ago, in that situation. Oh no, you probably hit the guy. He would have laid hands on him right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have laid unholy hands on him.
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah that would have been very. You got to look at the progress.
Speaker 1:There's been. There's progress. There's progress the fact that, instead of running away and making things even worse, you know, by saying, ah, screw it, I blew it, so let's just go ahead and blow it completely. That was not the case. The case was you know what? This, this, this situation. I could have done better in this situation. I should have done better, I know better, but I didn't. Therefore, let's stop, let's review some of this stuff in our mind and let's not make that mistake again. Let's work to not making that mistake another time in the future.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of where I am, and that's the reason why I wanted to share it this morning with anybody, any brother out there who is in a situation similar to that man. If you get to a place where a difficult situation comes your way and you're able to just hold back, think it through and then leave with peace in your mind and your heart, don't give that up. Don't give that up. I know it feels like it totally feels like you're missing out on something here, like they're getting over on you or something, but they're not. What they're doing is they're getting over on themselves. What you're getting is the peace and joy of knowing that you did the right thing. You walked away, did the right thing, and the right thing is what was in your heart to do. It's never a good idea to just throw a bunch of words around and try to justify yourself to people who don't even care in the first place. And now I've probably caused all kinds of whatever office intrigue was going on there.
Speaker 1:I totally kicked over the hornet's nest man it's gonna be an absolute crap show over there Now, especially dropping the bomb. He thought his sin of the past was secret. Now he realizes that everybody talks about it behind his back and that's gonna cause him a lot of grief and trouble, which I shouldn't have done. I feel bad about it. Truth is truth. I mean he did it and it's the consequences of it, but I shouldn't have been the one to bring it out.
Speaker 2:It's done now, so you can't take it back.
Speaker 1:No, I can't take it back, but my point for putting myself on the spot here is one because it's good to talk about these things openly, and since I'm talking about this to the entire world pretty openly.
Speaker 1:But I want, if there's anybody out there who's kind of working through these things, if you got some bitterness, anger inside, you know that's just holding you up. If you're, you know I would encourage you. Man, it's not worth it, it's really not worth it. Better to have that peace of mind. Go to the wisdom of Solomon in the book of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. That's all the wisdom of Solomon. He wrote all of that stuff and it speaks to this stuff. That it's just it's not worth it. It's not worth it.
Speaker 1:Anyways, that's my confession. Well, there you go my story for this opening of this podcast. What else you got going on?
Speaker 2:man, so you're a free agent right now.
Speaker 1:I am a free agent. I have never, I haven't felt this free in a long time and I thought waking up is great these days.
Speaker 2:Waking up and the birds are chirping and you smell the flowers Like your breakfast tastes better Like ooh, this is living.
Speaker 1:It's really good, you know, and I'm in a good place. You know, I have a very marketable skill, which is great, which I'm blessed by.
Speaker 2:Which is breaking legs? Hey, forget about it. Which is breaking?
Speaker 1:legs. Forget about it. But that's not quite as in demand as it used to be.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. It might be coming back.
Speaker 1:It could be coming back though. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Ruffians will be in demand once again.
Speaker 1:Anyways, that's for you, brother, who's ever listening, who needed to hear that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's good to share that stuff.
Speaker 1:So you know we talked last show about this deal going on in Texas and with the Grand Lodge of Texas.
Speaker 2:We didn't know a whole lot. We didn't know much. We just knew something was going on at the time.
Speaker 1:Right, we did a little more research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh did we, did we ever.
Speaker 1:Now there's a website out there. It's called Texas Masons for Truth.
Speaker 2:The number four, truth, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, number four, Texas Masons for Truth, and we've kind of been going through it. Now this would be now. We said yet last week that it looks like, from the limited information we had, it looks like the old guard is not giving way to the young guard coming in the new guard. The old guard wants to hold their position. And we said this out of ignorance, guys, we don't know for sure. We've reached out to the brother in question, the quote young guard person, and then we've also reached out to the website here, Texas Masons for Truth, asking for if one of their representatives would come on the show and kind of share with us what they know from their perspective. We'll see what happens there, but I think it's worth talking about because we just watched a video.
Speaker 1:Yes, we did that was mind blowing brothers, when can they find that YouTube video?
Speaker 2:It's at texasmesonsfortruthcom Ford slash blog and you can find that in their blog called Installation Interrupted the video's right there, the installation, up into the point where they literally, as they were about to install, their grand junior warden, brought charges against him During the installation.
Speaker 1:And the charges were in an envelope, in the man's hand who was announcing the charges and he says and were handed to and hands it to whoever it is at that moment. So the charges were filed at a grand lodge meeting and the gentleman who stood up to refute this was spot on. That guy must be a lawyer, because he was good.
Speaker 2:Well, ok, there's a lot going on.
Speaker 1:Let's set the scene.
Speaker 2:The scene is. You have to understand Texas a little. I did a little research.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:There's no free speech in Texas for Emasonry OK. First of all since 1933, they put a law into place. Let me see if I can find it here. Ok, it's called Article 501 in their digest. It shall be a Masonic offense for any subordinate lodge or any committee officer or member thereof to circulate, by letter or other form of publication, other lodges in the grand jurisdiction proposing or advocating any amendment, repeal or enactment of laws in or by this grand lodge, without first securing a dispensation for the proper purpose from the grandmaster. Wait, wait.
Speaker 2:No such dispossation shall be granted by the grandmaster, except in cases of extreme emergency, which cannot be reasonably postponed until the next grand communication. This grand lodge shall alone exercise the right in power to take a referendum of subordinate lodges on questions of amendments, repeals or enactments of legislation governing this grand lodge or lodges under its jurisdiction, except in cases of extreme emergency. So can I translate that Any lodge violating this article shall be promptly suspended until the succeeding communication of this grand lodge and unless restored by this grand lodge, its charter shall be forfeited.
Speaker 1:Wow so what that means is that you can't say anything negative about the grand lodge unless you first gain a dispensation from the grand lodge allowing you to. But then in the law.
Speaker 2:they say and, by the way, we're not giving you any of this, we're not giving it to you, it's wow.
Speaker 1:They go on to say that what is that man?
Speaker 2:Any officer of a subordinate lodge violating any of the provisions of this article shall be promptly suspended from office by the grandmaster and charges filed against him in the form and manner provided by Masonic law. Any member of any subordinate lodge now not even an officer, they're going down to a member of a lodge.
Speaker 1:A member.
Speaker 2:Any member of any subordinate lodge violating this provision of this article shall be charged on Masonic conduct promptly and will be filed against him in trial therein provided. So they had one case in 1936. Shelby Lodge, number 732, actually requested dispensation to circulate to Lodge as a recommendation of resolution requesting a name change of their lodge to Sam Houston Lodge. Dispensation was denied. They couldn't even talk about changing their name.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Grand Lodge makes decisions in Texas, not the members. So, that's the environment they live in, apparently there.
Speaker 1:Now there's nothing like that in Florida, right, florida Grand Lodge. We have nothing even remotely close to that, because Not even remotely close to that Last Grand Lodge communication there was a discussion from the grand master over the clothing thing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we had discussion, and it was an open discussion, and it was decided to postpone it for better wording of it and stuff, and it all worked out when we went forward. I'm assuming that that is the case for most Grand Lodges throughout the States. Yes, I don't think it's unique.
Speaker 2:Is this unique? That is wise, I don't know. I don't know. I wouldn't feel comfortable seeing that after seeing Texas, Wow.
Speaker 1:I mean that's and then changing the subject, going a different direction here. If you look at the video, what you're gonna see is a bunch of really distinguished, distinguished men in 10 gallon hats sitting around on one side and doing what they did, and the man who did it I don't know the man and I'm sure he's a fine man, but the way he did it was. You couldn't write a show, a TV show, better than the way this went down. Oh my goodness, I mean, it is so cliche.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you should go watch it.
Speaker 1:Everybody needs to go watch this thing and see what happened and he interrupted the installation, which was a complete setup. You can tell the guys. In my opinion it looks like a complete setup. They knew what was coming and they kind of played it off. And then this man comes up and does what he does right there, and then what happens after that is a man comes up and speaks, a young man comes up and speaks and just completely shuts him down. Am I right on that?
Speaker 2:That's past Grand Master Billings.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:He actually made a point of order stating that only the Grand West is able to accept charges, and that was received by applause from the craft by applause from the craft right he said excuse me, this is out of order. You can't just stand there and accept charges. This is grand lodge session. Those charges need to come through a lodge. You can't just stand there as a man and accept them In grand lodge. In open session, they have certain rules.
Speaker 1:And so he was saying this isn't correct.
Speaker 2:You can't accept those charges. In fact, Grand Master Smith states off mic to past Grand Master Miller, he's not going to get installed, and then proceeded to call somebody and says hey, are we allowed to do this? And the guy said I don't know. He said, all right, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna have a special session, we're gonna proceed with the installation, not install this guy, and we'll deal with it tomorrow. That's kind of what happens in the installation.
Speaker 1:So their grand lodge communication is like ours it's several days long.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, so they're still gonna have session and they're just gonna deal with it in the next day's session. I wonder what happened.
Speaker 2:Well, I can tell you.
Speaker 1:Tell me.
Speaker 2:They decided to extend that session to some unnamed point in the future.
Speaker 1:So he's not installed?
Speaker 2:No, he's suspended right now, wow. And as long as he stays suspended, cannot be installed.
Speaker 1:All right, now the charges that are against this man. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:I'm not really sure what the charges are, and they're very vague.
Speaker 1:But they were investigated by a committee and found to be not true. Is that correct? Am I understanding that right?
Speaker 2:It gets deep. So apparently Terry Stogner's lodge brother, terry Stogner, past grandmaster of Texas, handed brother Clay Smith, the grandmaster of Texas, charges against Romsey during the installation. You can read the charges there. They're very vague. It just says that he violated something and that it'll be investigated. So there are no actual charges been provided to this guy. He is suspended and under charge, but no specific charge has been communicated.
Speaker 1:Wow, that is unjust.
Speaker 2:So this is in January, right? This is their grand lodge session.
Speaker 1:Last January.
Speaker 2:This January.
Speaker 1:Right In 2023,.
Speaker 2:this happened Right. So, then, in March, the grandmaster, clay Smith, orders a special investigation into the financial affairs of the offices of the grand treasurer the grand secretary and others.
Speaker 2:The grandmaster ordered the audit to focus on the finding funds used by the Grand Lodge of Texas. On whiskey Apparently sale proceeds from a special batch of whiskey were donated to the Grand Lodge of Texas. The production sale took place outside of the finances and jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas. So they're saying they think that Texas law was broken here by the guy that they're trying to get. So they did a special investigation into the annual audit, which is normal, but they did a special investigation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they could dig, dig, dig till they found what they were looking for, which they did not, I assume.
Speaker 2:Multiple people were targets of this, including certain staff of the grand secretary's office, the grand treasurer, the grand secretary, past grandmaster Billings, certain members of the finance committee, certain members of the jurisprudence committee. While the grandmaster has absolute authority to request a special investigation, the question arises was this a good use of the resources? Because the finding of the chairman was there was no wrongdoing by anyone.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:So get this. One month later passes and he gets notification the day before they're gonna read this that they found no wrongdoing and therefore removes the chairman of finance before he can read the report. To the crack Yikes. Remove the guy who'd found nothing, who he hired to find something. So that happens in April.
Speaker 1:So this is Banana Republic Masonry style man.
Speaker 2:Wow, it's crazy. And then they receive reports that charges were filed against past grandmaster Billings at his lodge and they're still trying to get any kind of document of what those charges are because they don't know.
Speaker 1:So who this grand master is just gonna keep going till he he gets somebody, stops him or he finds something that actually sticks and you can make it all go away yeah remember you cannot talk about this.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's right, right about it. You cannot do anything or you'll be suspended. You won't be a Mason. So everybody has to stay real quiet until January of 2024.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, the Grand Lodge session comes, and that's when it's own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so everybody's trying to call for a special session, but they have to tread.
Speaker 1:Do they allow Visitors from Florida at that Grand Lodge communication?
Speaker 2:I'm wondering well, they record it oh so we can at least watch it.
Speaker 1:I want to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is all happening in real time this year in the state of Texas. Wow and I only found out because I'm a member of the Texas Freemasonry Facebook group and I could see it was blowing up with people.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, this is a big issue. Oh my, they need to settle this. This needs to get settled.
Speaker 2:That's right. It's crazy because they have to be careful what they say in Lodge and right. You can be targeted from these people and there are spies everywhere, I'm sure people are leaving Freemasonry in Texas.
Speaker 1:I. You know what. I'm joined for this. I didn't join for this either.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna be a Mason under these conditions, and this isn't what Freemasonry is about and I don't want to participate in it and then choosing to walk away from Freemasonry now We've said this before and we've said it over and over again the old guard is not gonna go away Quietly.
Speaker 1:It just happened even down, even in our lodge, when we first, when you first started, when I first came, there was a little bit of upheaval. Some new people were coming in and some of the some folks that Weren't happy about it. Now those folks have most of those folks have have come to appreciate, appreciate what has happened actually in our lodge the younger, some younger blood coming in and some new faces and some new ideas, which are actually old ideas. It's called Masonry, going back to the found, you know the, the founding of our, of our craft, but it just, it's just there's going, there's upheaval when the old guard won't give up, when they're so entrenched. Did you see that room? If you see, if you go, if you go to that video and see that room, it looks like the halls of congress man oh, it's really they got to have some money over there, man.
Speaker 1:They got to have some big, big money flowing. It's a big state, you know. There are there's probably twice as many masons in Texas as there is in Florida, so there's probably a lot of money flowing there, a lot of influence and power and a lot of folks that have been sitting in seats for a long, long, long, long time. And that is that is changing. I see in in everywhere, as, as our country goes through what it's going through, all the institutions Are being shaken upside down, you know, and that which, that which is not secured, will not stand, and I don't see how this stuff stands. If there are some passionate young masons in Texas, they, they will get this done.
Speaker 2:They will get it turned over. I think that's where the stems from. I think the person is known to be someone who uses social media and new, new forms of talking right and doing things and was getting Major traction right right and the old guard is like no, no, this is my house.
Speaker 1:This is my house, this is my masonry see, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:How did you get that far? And you still haven't learned. Nothing belongs to us. Nothing belongs, we're just another brick in the wall of masonry.
Speaker 1:How does a?
Speaker 2:grandmaster not realize that?
Speaker 1:Brotherly love and affection right we need in our own lodge.
Speaker 2:You see guys who are like if I leave, it's all burning down. You can't like yeah. In two days we'll figure it out.
Speaker 1:We'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:That's right yeah anyone can be gone and and masonry will survive. That's the beauty of it.
Speaker 1:That's the point, you know. I think we talked about it. Where were we last night? We were in lodge.
Speaker 2:Oh, the cataclysm workshop cataclysm workshop.
Speaker 1:I think anybody listening out there who hasn't put together a cataclysm Instructors workshop please do so. It was very informative.
Speaker 2:Honestly, as a cataclysm instructor for years, I got some little helpful tips from there right, Definitely gonna implement yeah you know, you always think your way's the right way, because it works right yeah, right yeah. You hear other guys, You're like oh wow, oh wow.
Speaker 1:I never thought of that right, yeah, well, and that's the beauty of it. You know, that's the fellowship when we come to end, and hats off to Most worship, I mean right honorable right. Honorable right. Honorable Justin broom, our our district instructor.
Speaker 2:And honestly, this was wishfulful Tim Ferdon's, I think, brainchild.
Speaker 1:It was, it absolutely was. And then he got called away with a family emergency yeah, so he couldn't make it, and, of course, justin broom did a great right honorable stepped up and he I. What I appreciate about is he Set it up as an open forum. Yeah, so like a lot what we do when we do our stuff, you know, it was an open forum where everybody can just kind of share, you know, ask their questions and then everybody can kind of give their input.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he started by saying what works for him, what he does, and then it kind of opened up. Yeah people started talking about the things we do. And then, great part, my favorite part, and this is why I love Mario Patrick Charles. They're trying to wrap it up and he's like excuse me, I heard all the great stuff. I need to know what do you find people are doing wrong?
Speaker 1:Tell me that, that I don't want to know the 10 things that are wrong.
Speaker 2:It's good, that's a good point. Yeah right you're talking about, yeah, rainbows and sunshine, but I ain't all rainbows and sunshine right times you can go really wrong as a catechism instructor right, Right yeah boom, there goes like a bunch of good discussion about what not to do, and that was really helpful, I think, for people that aren't catechism instructors, to hear right so they don't make those mistakes.
Speaker 2:They can be on the lookout for that behavior. Very, very good stuff. We highly recommend you do that. We did it Well. This is the second one in our district that's been done this year. Yeah and we saw some. We had a guy who's a 56 56 year, mason Ray Ortt told stories.
Speaker 1:Luke Kelly. Luke Kelly Sorry, yeah, we're full.
Speaker 2:Luke Kelly, he was telling stories about Kelly meeting guys at 11 o'clock at night, 9 o'clock at night at Perkins at Perkins, and he's been doing this for almost 60 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of I mean. I'm listening intently when he's talking.
Speaker 1:He's the kind of guy he's got that infectious smile man when he cracks a joke and that smile you just like, you just love the guy man. He's just, he's an elder statesman in our local masonry man and and he's he's a treasure and absolutely treasure Southern boy too.
Speaker 2:He's got all the best euphemisms for any situation You're like. Well, that's like if you take a dog or shit in my shoe, you know, and it's the same thing. He's good. He's got one for every situation he does.
Speaker 1:That's right, that's right, and, and, and, like I said, he's the value of Having that man Desire to be. If you are lucky enough for him to be your catechism instructor, you are, you're blessed, yeah, because the man is really dedicated to it. You know, and you will learn, because he'll push you to do it the right way, which for me, it our catechism instruction, especially in EA, was was difficult. I know I'm always, constantly whining about it, but it was tough.
Speaker 1:But the lodge was going through some transitions. We were just coming out of the, the Cervaisa sickness and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:So Cervaisa and so we, you know yeah, it was a tough time. It was a tough time for all of us. Had a big class. Yeah, your instructor was overworked.
Speaker 1:He was definitely overworked and it was. You know, it was kind of a you know you had no mentoring no mentors, like, look, we need instructors, so we need to just push you guys through.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh, even transition. Okay, two masters of the lodge, because you took so long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. That's right, yeah, so anyway, that was a great time. I really enjoyed it. I don't know how we rabbit hold that one into an entire conversation, but that's what we do.
Speaker 2:You asked me something and they just went off. Yeah, but I think the important part of that situation is Every, probably every lodge, definitely every district, has a Luke Ellie. Yeah, that's right I have a 56 year mason. Absolutely in your area Probably many of them, and if you're one of those brothers, they need you you have a wealth of history. Yeah, that's right knowledge that you can bring to every meeting. That happens and the young guys need you.
Speaker 2:Yeah they don't, otherwise they're gonna make the same mistakes you made and help them out like don't let them do that.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Tell them what worked and what didn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what show up, and and I, I like you know, that's what he said. He said, well, I'd just be at home, you know, but I, I come out and do this, you know, because, because I've been in it so long, I have, I still have a lot to share. Well, how many guys are sitting at home, you know, paying their dues? You're paying your dues and we respect you because you've you've, you've, you've gone the distance. Man, come back to Lodge, get involved in catechism, instruction, and, and, and you'll be better for it.
Speaker 2:I think I see what's going on with these guys and I used to not understand it and be like we're cool, why don't you want to be around us? Well, I now see like you spend a large portion of your life when you're an officer Focused and dedicated on the Lodge, its needs, and you're working really closely with this group of guys and and eventually you all work through the system and become past masters.
Speaker 2:Right and if you step away for a year or two years. When you come back, that line is full of people you don't know right right you feel like an alien in your own house, like these guys don't know me, they don't respect me, they don't. I bet there's probably a lot of people out there who don't come because they feel like my time pass. This is a different group right, I don't want to get in their way.
Speaker 2:They don't respect me or trust me. I'm not gonna be Welcome like I feel like I should, so I'm just not gonna bother right but man, if you're a member of a lodger, an officer, you better damn well make those guys feel welcome and needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, you need him, especially if they're, you know, a past master and they come back into the lodge. It's important to recognize and it's really important to recognize the Accomplishments of the people that are in the sidelines Whenever they're there, because you don't, you know, if you can. It's not easy, but yeah, you want to. You definitely want to try to recognize them and get them back Involved in lodge man, because we like, like we say all the time, our lodge has 335 paying members, for I mean something like something like 300, almost 350 actually, but you know on a good night.
Speaker 2:We got 50 men in there.
Speaker 1:It's on a really good night, on a really good night we got 50 men in there. So what's happening is there is a wealth of masonic education and and experience sitting at home watching Netflix, man, and I get it. I'm not. I'm not trying to put you down or anything Like that, brother. I certainly would never do that. But I'm telling you, I'm encouraging you, to Consider coming back down and getting involved and see what happens. The craft would be better for it and I know you would absolutely enjoy it.
Speaker 2:So that's my hobby horse yes, it's a good point.
Speaker 1:It's a good point, all right.
Speaker 2:So, texas, get yourself together, man, come on hey, come on Texas if you got any information and you're not afraid of speaking about the situation, contact Fred. Yes, on the level of Fred and Chris, calm because we will have you on the show. We're really curious to follow the story and see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we. If you wanted to be anonymous and speak to us Anonymously, we could do that too, because I think that would be really cool.
Speaker 2:I want to get a Darth Vader voice modulator.
Speaker 1:We'll get a Darth Vader voice modulator.
Speaker 2:You're gonna go on morsy.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's do that. Oh, that would be good, that would be so.
Speaker 2:Seriously, though, we do want to talk about this we do, we don't know we're here trying to follow it from out of state and right it seems quite interesting. The Freemasonry at large. Well, this is a lesson that probably all masons and all jurisdictions want to know about, right?
Speaker 1:and the tendency might be. Well, we need to keep this. You know, we don't want this to get out. We don't want to give Masonry a black eye. Brother, it's too late. The black eye has been issued and now it's time for all of us to openly and honestly talk about it, because you know, all right, so that's Texas and this is Florida. Well, it's still Masonry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's still Masonry.
Speaker 1:We are a global fraternity and what impacts Texas will impact Florida, wisconsin, new Mexico, wherever you are, britain, the Virgin Islands we get, we get. We get lodges from all over the world Contacting us, so it affects us all and it's like if they're making mistakes.
Speaker 2:It's good for us to be able to learn from those mistakes without having to make them ourselves.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right, you know, because we should be different. If you look in the halls of Congress, if you, if you talk to those people, they never make any mistakes, they never admit anything, they never do anything wrong. It's always you know, it's always somebody else's fault or it's always you know. Just the way we do things in Masonry should be different. We got some problems here and let's all be brotherly and honest and move forward so that we can be better, as you know, as a craft, as a fraternity, and impact this hurting country with, you know, with brotherly, affection, relief and truth. I read that somewhere. I don't know where I read that from.
Speaker 2:I'm Repeatedly in Masonic stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. That's right, speaking of reading Masonic stuff.
Speaker 2:We'll get to the show.
Speaker 1:We'll get to the show 41 minutes in, so it's all good. So we were doing the etiquette book and I know I'm almost through it in my my mind and heart. I don't want to go any further, but let's do emblems and symbols. Oh okay, it's quite extensive and there's some big words in there.
Speaker 2:So I'll do my best. If they define those like what's the difference between an emblem and a symbol?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not sure I'm gonna read a cold and and let's see, let's see what happens. Just so everyone knows, I am in Grand Lodge GL 208, reprinted in 2010, the Masonic etiquette lodge of a lodge system of Masonic education etiquette book. It's the yellow book that you receive when you became an entered apprentice, so that means you're gonna have to go somewhere in your closet and dig it out because it's buried deep. So go get it and get it out and give it a read, or you can just go on the Grand Lodge.
Speaker 2:You can go on the Grand Lodge website and download it.
Speaker 1:None of this is coded or encrypted in any way. It is all available to the whole world to see emblems and symbols.
Speaker 2:I did a search real quick of what's a term between an emblem versus a symbol.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is a difference?
Speaker 2:a symbol is a glyph or character that stands as a concrete representation of an object, idea, relationship. And Emblem is a more abstract representation, either of an individual like a king, a group of individuals Like Freemasons, or an idea, like a moral truth. Oh, okay a symbols, like you know, oh, a beehive.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a symbol, symbol, get it.
Speaker 2:An emblem is more of like our square, with the lines. It represents the whole. Yeah, I see Something different.
Speaker 1:Emblems and symbols on page six, While the design and disposition of the emblems, symbols and other lodgeroom apportences Apportences.
Speaker 2:That's a tough one.
Speaker 1:Necessary to the adequate exemplification of the degrees does not in any strict sense belong to Masonic etiquette. The underlying principle is nevertheless the same. That's a tough paragraph, but let's just keep going. The symbolic system of the craft is what that term indicates A system which means that each part or detail belongs to a whole, and if any one is omitted or misused it affects the whole. And the symbolic system itself is absolutely essential to Freemasonry. It is the craft's one method of teaching its principles to its members. Without that method it is dumb, meaning unable to speak. Without that method it is unable to speak, and if that method is manipulated its teaching suffers. For these reasons it is of the utmost importance that a lodge takes great pains to see that the emblems and symbols are of a correct design, are well cared for and are placed in the correct positions. So I know that our previous district instructor, doug Dobbs.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Doug the right honorable Worshipful Master Doug Dobbs right, honorable Worshipful Master Doug Dobbs.
Speaker 1:he noted that in our lodge, behind where the American flag stands is one of the symbols or I guess that would be an emblem of one of the appended bodies, and he said that's inappropriate. So according to Etiquette, according to Lodge Etiquette, you can't have any of the emblems or symbols behind where the American flag stands. So for us, our American flag sits at the edge, the outer edge of the east, instead of against the wall, in other words. So if you're going to do that, you can't have anything behind it, emblem or symbol. Wise, that's just an example of what they're talking about here.
Speaker 2:So the flag should be its own, without anything taking away from the honor of it, that is right, that is correct, and as far as I know, that thing's still there. Anyways, we need to work on that for now. Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1:Doug. So you know our symbols, our emblems and all of that stuff is so misunderstood in the culture. People look at our stuff, you know, and Hell it's misunderstood by Mason.
Speaker 1:sometimes it's misunderstood by Mason's as well, sometimes. That's right. That's right. Let me go on to the next paragraph. The altar should be in the center of the room. It's side square with the sides of the room. The three great lights should be placed at the center of the altar and should never rest on top of the Holy Bible when it is closed. The square and compasses should be silver and in good working order. The great pillars should be of adequate height and correct design and placed one on each side of the inner door. If the lodge building allows the pillar bearing the celestial globe to stand at the candidates right as he enters, we got ours backwards.
Speaker 2:You know what we also did a whole year not following this etiquette book. You're right, maybe two years, I think we did it Right Because we had a worship master from Puerto Rico worship Stephen Garcia Maratis.
Speaker 1:Shout out.
Speaker 2:Great, great, Mason yeah and a good man. Yeah, we should have him on the show.
Speaker 1:We should, we absolutely should. He's one of those quiet leaders. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You got to ask him if you want to know what he's thinking.
Speaker 1:But when you ask him, be prepared to get the actual answer because he's very knowledgeable From a well thought out. That's right, the guy is methodical and is thinking logical.
Speaker 2:Sorry for the love fest.
Speaker 1:We're gloating.
Speaker 2:He from Puerto Rico, when he became master, said in my lodge we put those pillars basically in front of the senior warden, so one near where the junior deacon sits and one near where the marshal sits. I thought it was interesting and after his year, the next year, the next master left it there and I found when I was sitting in the west it actually obscured my view of the craft and I couldn't really see a whole lot.
Speaker 2:So from that chair. It wasn't the best, but it did look cool and they even put like neon lights on the bottom.
Speaker 1:Right, right Stand out. I remember that.
Speaker 2:But according to the etiquette book, those should be next to the inner door either side of the inner door, correct we did not know that that was in the Masonic etiquette book.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And we didn't do that for two years.
Speaker 1:Right and the celestial glow should be on the right as you walk into the lodge from the outer room.
Speaker 2:That was another question I always had. How do we know which side goes where? Well, there you go, it tells you exactly.
Speaker 1:Huh, funny how these books are so relevant Exactly where they should be placed.
Speaker 2:And it makes sense because in the lecture you're in the fellow craft lecture you go into detail explaining those pillars.
Speaker 1:And which?
Speaker 2:one is where and what they represent.
Speaker 1:The square and compass should be silver and in good working order. The great pillars should be of adequate height and correct design and place on each side of the inner door. If the lodge building allows the pillars bearing the celestial globe to stand at the candidates right as he enters, the ashlar's, if used, should be on the master's platform or on one of its steps, one at either side the perfect ashlar near the southeast corner and the rough ashlar toward the northeast. We have that correct as I think about it.
Speaker 2:So you kind of said this twice and it's been in my mind since you said it. Uh-oh, the square and compasses should be silver. Why do you think they specify that they should be made of silver?
Speaker 1:Because it's a pure metal.
Speaker 2:A pure metal. Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's a pure precious metal. It's valuable and I don't know. Why don't you tell us, brother, I don't know either. Oh, you're looking at it up.
Speaker 2:I was like what the heck? So I did research the significance of using silver in rituals to see if we can get an answer.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And the historical significance is that silver was used in religious rituals to purify and consecrate sacred spaces.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2:Maybe because it's a pure metal, like you said.
Speaker 1:Right, it is.
Speaker 2:It purifies and consecrates the altar and the great book that they rest on.
Speaker 1:I suppose silver is a very interesting metal because it is not only an intrinsically valuable precious metal in and of itself. It has value just because if you have a silver coin that says 50 cents on it currently it's actually worth $22. So it has value within itself. If I check the spot value, I follow metals I'm weird like that but also it has an industrial use. So silver is also one of the best metals for conducting electricity and they use it quite frequently in electronics high end electronics. So it's an interesting metal in that it has both of those uses.
Speaker 1:It has its own intrinsic value. In other words, the value lies within itself, like gold, unlike the dollar bill, which is based on the promises of a bunch of grifters that are somewhere near Richmond Virginia. But silver and gold actually have value within themselves. So that's intrinsic of silver. Why am I rabbit-holing silver? And then, of course, it has that also that value. So what I'm telling you is go out and buy some silver and put it in your mattress right now, because it's only $22 an ounce right now, and it's got to be worth a lot more than that in the future.
Speaker 2:I'd like to actually look even deeper into the esoteric meanings historically of using silver, since it is specified here that these most important tools we use must be made of silver.
Speaker 1:And I don't think ours are.
Speaker 2:I mean, they look like silver, silver tarnishes silver tarnishes though, and ours are bright. Is it like stainless?
Speaker 1:Probably some kind of stainless steel or something or who knows what it is.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting.
Speaker 1:But if that was made of silver actual silver, those two things it would only you know the value of it. It's less than an ounce, so I don't know. I definitely want to look into it with you, and if ours is not silver, I say we should investigate and correct that situation.
Speaker 1:We should correct that situation immediately. The great pillars should be of oh wait, I already read that. The ashlar's, already read that, the ashlar's, if you should be on the master's platform or on one of the steps, one at either side, the perfect ashlar near the southeast corner, the rough ashlar near the northeast corner, obviously for obvious reasons to the north, the darkness coming to the light. The letter G should be prominently displayed in the east and be of tasteful design.
Speaker 2:So we're also a blinking neon. Blinking neon light isn't pink. Like pink, neon, that kind of goes on and off. No but ours is actually just somebody handmade it, I think.
Speaker 1:It's in the shape of a letter G Right, it's neon, it's actual neon, with no backing and it just hangs out of the ceiling.
Speaker 2:I feel like we shouldn't put a metal, not like a wooden box with glass, there should be something.
Speaker 1:It shouldn't be just like that because it could get broke. And of course it's been there for 40 years.
Speaker 2:I doubt it's been there long enough, but we could do better job of like it says it should be in good taste, and ours is. I mean I guess it's just the letter G hanging from the ceiling. That's neon, but right. I mean in one area we could improve.
Speaker 1:I can tell you right now that there's a transformer up there that produces a ton of electricity, Because to charge neon you need something ridiculous like 100,000 watts.
Speaker 2:You can hear the buzz. It's like rolling over my head, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they're not cheap. That stuff's not cheap, so whoever put that up there spent some money on it. I'm sure it's been there a long, long time.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and it's cool. That's what I'm saying. We shouldn't remove it, we should just add to it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Give it a little proper, like you know, fluff to make it look a little more extravagant.
Speaker 1:Right, right. The Holy Bible should be handled with care and reverence, and should any of its pages become soiled or torn, they should be cleaned or replaced. Jules, regalia, rods and aprons should be kept in good order, never suffered to grow shabby or handled carelessly in a manner showing neglect.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, sir. Sir, my rod is not shabby.
Speaker 1:Your rod is shabby sir, Excuse me sir.
Speaker 2:Point of order. Good day, sir. Lightly withered rod, it is by no means shabby.
Speaker 1:Our brothers in England right now are like these yeah, they're Americans, yanks why? Bother. So stupid these yanks. Why bother with them? They're shabby.
Speaker 2:Yes, we are right, proper lancers.
Speaker 1:No individual who has private theories concerning the emblems and symbols should be permitted to violate the requirements, should be permitted to violate the requirements and usages of the craft. Free masonry is no man's private property. I'm looking at you, texas. It lies with no man to impose his private notions upon anything pertaining to the ritual and, by the same token, it is the height of impropriety for a lodge to permit any member's name to be engraved upon the ashlares, embroidered or painted on the dressings of the altar, carved or embossed upon the holy Bible or otherwise displayed in or on anything belonging to the ritual and its exemplification Right.
Speaker 2:So that's interesting. You shouldn't come in talking or teaching about how the silver square encompasses was used by vampire hunters to kill evil souls Like. No, that's not what it's for.
Speaker 1:That's not what it's for. Stop saying that I'm not saying you do.
Speaker 2:But that's an example of probably what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we had a candidate Come in once and the very he was, he was obviously having some some issues.
Speaker 2:I mean oh, I know you're talking right and and he stood all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:He was over at the altar and he was talking about how this is where Some, some God this and he was going on and on about it. It was getting really weird, yeah, and we were supposed to petition on him that night and we we decided not to. We decided to pass on him because of that. Yes because he was really like he was there for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, and it was just like. It was just like dude, from what we could tell it, what it didn't look like a good situation. I knew he was muttering to himself over there. Yeah and no one was around, but loud enough for people to hear that it was not normal things. He was muttering, right, yeah and and again.
Speaker 1:What he bought into was all of the strange lies about us that are out there. You know that we're some sort of devil worshipping cult and all this stuff, and this is where the the God of this does, is God of that. Blah, blah, blah. It's like no man. This is where good men help each other to become better men. That's that's what it's all about, and that's what masonry is. That's what we're doing in there in secret. If you, if you must know, we're working on being better men. Okay, okay, karen.
Speaker 2:Well that I was supposed to sign his petition and I know, I know multiple people said you need to go see what's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I checked it out and I did not sign his petition because of what I witnessed right and that's what you do as a man, you have to do that, you got to protect the lodge and protect the east yep the Westgate, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:the Westgate must be protected, yeah strongly guarded.
Speaker 2:It's our job. So, here the first guy. Don't even you see something's wrong and that's only happened to me like a handful of times out of all the guys I've talked to. There was another guy who was talking about allister Crowley and sex magic and I was like I didn't know what that was at the time. But I did research it after and I said I can't recommend this guy.
Speaker 1:This is a good situation if this is what he's holding to is his belief system. Yeah, no, it's just it, just it isn't. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. There's just so much talk anymore about all this kind of stuff and it goes on and on and on and on. It never really changes, though. You know it's. I don't know what stuff? The whole. You know we're not being honest about who we all that stuff you know, and it's just like it.
Speaker 2:That's never gonna change.
Speaker 1:No, it's not and I used to say, and I still kind of say, that I kind of dig it, I kind of like being able to pull people's chain. With regard to it, you know a little bit, you know what I mean. It's like I got a, I have an niece who really thinks that you know, masonry is you know this major global cult and stuff, and I just, I like, I like pulling her chain.
Speaker 2:I gotta be honest, I do enjoy it a little bit you know I've been enjoying Changing people's minds through my own actions and I've seen that happen, that's the only way you're gonna do it. Let's be honest. It's true, you can't reason your way into somebody changing somebody's opinion. You can't like factually base anything that's gonna change their position Position. All you can do is show them right. And if you show them that might actually change their position.
Speaker 1:It's true.
Speaker 2:My family, as I've said many times, is anti-masonry right big time like big time, and it it comes from the church.
Speaker 1:Right, somehow Eastern Orthodox? Yes, they're from Ukraine, yep.
Speaker 2:Which I always found weird, because their fathers in the Soviet Union they were communists. Like how did you become a Christian in that environment?
Speaker 1:Because the Eastern Orthodox Church was there before communism. It was there for a thousand years.
Speaker 2:Well, that would do it, yeah, but now you know, getting out of that oppression and coming to America. They became very zealous. Yeah, with it and being able to practice openly and so I think, that's why it was so. You know it wasn't. It came from that place of like. When you take shoes from a kid, they're gonna grow up to be a shoe collector.
Speaker 1:That's how it goes Right, you're right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can't have worse than anything, and so they're very anti-masonry.
Speaker 2:And through my own actions, you know the way I behave, the things they've seen me do my wife makes sure to show them to like right so they see what's happening like I Think it was earlier this year one of the demo lay kids, his bike got wrecked and the dad, the chapter dad, told me about it and he's like maybe we could do something but there wasn't time. So I actually saw the bike he had in a picture, found the exact bike on Walmart, ordered it, shipped to his house and he was shocked and surprised right, he was like oh my god, I can't believe this.
Speaker 2:And the chapter dad did, you know, did a surprise reveal on video and put it on Facebook and I didn't like that. That wasn't why that was done, but my wife saw it, just randomly. I never told her and she was crying. She was like what is this? And I'm like this is just what we do.
Speaker 1:This is every day life for me.
Speaker 2:I didn't think it was a big deal, and so she shares that with her family. So now, whenever her family travel anywhere, they always send me pictures of lodges. They see I'm like, ah, you're, you're thinking about it. Now right, right and you think it's fun and cool, like they've changed their viewpoint on it because I'm in their life and they see and they see the real thing.
Speaker 1:It ain't evil right.
Speaker 2:And I'm pretty high up at this point. There's only maybe one degree I haven't received in all of Freemasonry and I Highly doubt they reserve the lizard people baby eating until you're 90 to give you that information.
Speaker 1:So come on, let's get real right.
Speaker 2:It's part of Freemasonry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right stuff and and it's it's good to always remember that you know, you the way we carry ourselves and behave. Back to my intro. The way we behave in front of others, it matters and for me I'm I'm Excuseless. I mean, as a Christian and a mace who happens to be a mason, I have absolutely no excuse To behave badly in public. I should be aware of these things constantly. Back to my my opening. It's a struggle we're all gonna fight. Nobody does it perfectly.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about that. It doesn't matter how old you get, you're still a human being, you're still gonna.
Speaker 1:We're all still gonna struggle. It's the reason why Masonry does what it does. I mean it's it. It helps men To remember, to keep their passions in due bounds. That's what Masonry does. It teaches men. It's not a religion. We, we, we don't promote any one religion at all, but we, we promote men Keeping their passions in due bounds for the purpose of being a blessing and a benefit to themselves, their families, their community and the craft as a whole. You know, that's, that's what it is. It's. It's that's why George Washington said that free masonry is indispensable in the, in the lives of young men. Every, in other words, what he meant was he, what he meant was every young man should go through the masonic degrees. Because it's indispensable for a young man to learn how to keep his passions in due bounds so they don't get in the way of his life, so that he can have a successful life and be a benefit to the world around him. And that's what Masonry promotes a hundred percent. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:This is something that came out last night and there was some conversation about hey, Because we were all talking about catechism instructors right. It's a lot of work to do that and it takes up to six months.
Speaker 1:I say up to right around six months, around six months could take up to years.
Speaker 2:But Uh, somebody I believe it was brother Wade Bacchens who's a very like, emotionally in touch guy. Yeah, hey wait, shouldn't we be about brotherhood, like, how can we do that? And Right worship will bury heart, said. Here's the thing it's. It is a lot of work to do this stuff and maybe they didn't sign up to do that work. But once you learn the three Catechisms and you've memorized them now, free masonry is inside of you and you'd never set foot in another lodge the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:But you're gonna carry that free masonry with you everywhere you go. For the rest of your life. Yeah cuz you took the time to memorize it and think about it and it became part of it was you were made a mason in your heart.
Speaker 2:We agree, but that doesn't mean you perfected the craft. But the act of doing the work of memorizing the catechism does put it inside of you. So in my mind, when he said that, I was reflecting on that and I thought, okay, that's six months of work you did in free masonry and now it's inside of you. If you believe wishful right, wishful heart which I do Now imagine if you spent 50 years doing that- right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Where are you gonna be as a man if you did work your whole life Instead of just for six months? Right how much further in touch with your Creator will you be, how better of a brother will you be, of a man, and and that's something that really stuck out to me because now, personally, my journey as an officer which is what I set out to do was to become the master of the lodge some day. The day came and it's like where do you go from here?
Speaker 2:Well, you just keep doing the work, whatever comes your way you do the work right and that's how you keep becoming a better person and like, as you always say, of service to the master.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. That we would be of of service, that we would be a value to the kingdom, that that we would be, yeah, acceptable and of service, of useful to the master. That's it. That's the word. I was the master. Useful to the master, that's right man, what a great example.
Speaker 2:I mean I get calls from all year long from people like right wishful-heart saying how's it going, how's it?
Speaker 1:going right thing. Okay, yeah, everything you need, can I?
Speaker 2:help you anyway. You know how invaluable that is to a guy that doesn't know what the hell he's doing to have someone of authority. We need to say, hey, can I help you, is everything okay?
Speaker 1:That's huge. You're a rich man, right when you have that, because the as men, that's that's something that we need. That's the way we were. We were created that way to be in communion With other men. Because, you know, it's like it's. It's like I said, only a man can teach a boy to be a man. You know, boys don't learn to be men from women. It's really tough. You even you have that story in your own life about Star Trek.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the men of Star Trek, where your example you know in in your life and it's it's true, and when you have Someone like right Worshful Heart, giving you a call to check in with you to make sure you're okay. You're a rich man, you're a rich man and where are you gonna get that in this world? I tell you, that type of brother, ship, brotherhood and fellowship is essential and.
Speaker 1:I searched for it and searched for it. I did not find it where I was looking for it. I am, I am believing that I am gonna take what I learned in Masonry and bring it back to the, the institution that I couldn't find it at, and and create that there. But here in Masonry I have brothers who have my best interest at heart. They they won't let me lie to myself or BS myself, which I'm very good at, obviously, but they care about me enough to tell me the stuff that's the hard stuff, and and I rely on them and I would do the same for them. And I'm thinking about brother Sean out there, who just has a heart man brother Sean.
Speaker 1:Cooney, sean Cooney. Shout out to Sean Cooney. I'm just, I'm thinking about you, brother.
Speaker 2:He's all heart.
Speaker 1:He's all heart man because, we were. We were on a thread and there was just a tough, some a tough situation. It was a text thread and everybody's talking facts, facts, facts, and all the thread was about facts. I'm not gonna give you any information about what the text thread was, but facts, facts, facts. And then, all of a sudden heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of a sudden this one word about a no man, no heart, heart. Yeah, this, this doesn't feel right. Heart and and and all of a sudden the conversation just just changed right and we all went to a different place, and and that was that was huge that our brother, our brother brought that. I think it benefited me, it got me to change my thinking and it opened up my mind to say something that really made sense to me and and that's that's, that's the brotherhood man.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm so excited for the future of our lodge. Yes we are. I mean, my mission this year was to try to become more like real masons right. And I feel like that torch has been picked up so hard right guys are gonna carry it so much further than I could have ever imagined.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited for the future. Yeah, I agree, and that's what culture is like this is what we've been saying. You have to foster that culture in your lodge. We were caught up and I think I was on that text thread. You were fax fax fax. Like I said fax, fax, fax, fax heart like it takes somebody to take a step back and say, hey, wait a second wait yep, and Imagine if three guys are saying that instead of one.
Speaker 2:Like it. Eventually we stop wasting time on the nonsense and focus on what's important all the time. That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it. That's not to say that the facts don't matter. We have to know, mason, you got to know it. You got to know what it is and you got to know why it is. And you know, you got to do the work. We were at a meeting last night. It was all about doing the work. I get that, but what we can't do is let that obscure us from the goal, and the goal is brotherly love and affection and that's what matters.
Speaker 1:And some brothers Don't know how to how to articulate what's going on in their lives and the and turmoil, inner turmoil, and it comes out in all kinds of bad ways. But if he's a brother, you know it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we got to keep bringing the brother back to the heart, back to the heart, back to the heart. We're here because we love each other enough to tell each other the truth and hold each other accountable and we're just not gonna let you go, man. We're not gonna let you go. If you go, we go, man.
Speaker 2:That's just the way it is. I think this is something that is kind of profound and I think about from time to time, because I've learned the lectures and this is why doing the work can benefit you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:I'm reminded often, especially in the master Mason lecture when I do it and we have one coming up Saturday. I've been looking at it and that's what's got my head spinning with this idea that the system of free masonry predates written Records of man. We use symbols. Correct symbols were taught to teach before people could read, before Languages were translated. Right symbols would be understood by everybody right.
Speaker 2:And you now, as a Mason, are a just a link in a chain of men that has existed from time immemorial. Literally Before recordings of men were put to paper, things were happening.
Speaker 2:Masonry, allegedly, was part of some of that that's correct, and now you are and your job as a link in the chain is to transmit as Unimpaired as possible the ideas that you got in the beginning to the next generation. That's your job to keep free masonry alive. And if you're not Keeping free masonry alive, that means you're changing it. That means the next generation is a watered-down version that they're not going to be right as pure, as good as the last generation Yep, you're failing your one job, which is to transmit unimpaired the lessons of free masonry.
Speaker 1:Yeah and the way you transmit it isn't by catechism in books, it's by actions, that's right, you teach people, yeah, you show them, you show them and and you show them the right way to do it. Like brother dobs says, do do Florida work, not lodge work in Florida.
Speaker 2:That's the rules, so you should Transmit unimpaired the rules of the direction.
Speaker 1:You live it to the next generation, so they can carry it to the next one. Sure man.
Speaker 2:I do this all the time. I disagree with many things that are part of Florida Tradition and law personally yeah and I always teach Florida rules and then say here's why I disagree with it. Right, but this is what we have to do.
Speaker 1:This is what we have to do. This is you don't like it, get to a place where you can affect some change to it, but until then, this is what we're gonna do and now that I have some time, many of the things I'll spend my time on or trying to put legislation to you know support, so bring back the Chamber of Reflection. Correct?
Speaker 2:I might fail because I'm an idiot and a all single person. But maybe it is good for free masonry, because what I want to do is go back to some of the things. Why don't we have a chamber of reflection?
Speaker 1:Why don't we have a chamber of reflection?
Speaker 2:I can't use a coffin in our ritual.
Speaker 1:Why can't we use a coffin in our ritual? That's right.
Speaker 2:I mean, we need these things back snatch the other person's holy book off the Bible before he's gone off the altar, like. There are a few things that bother me. I can't clap for a guy. There are some things that I take issue with, but I try to follow the rules right, that's right. So me as a good mason, I should try to change the rules if I disagree with them properly right but it but you're showing respect for the craft.
Speaker 1:You show more respect for the craft by adhering to rules you don't agree with you have to show through example, it's easy to adhere to rules. You agree with that's easy, yes sure but it's not easy to adhere to rules that you don't agree with, but it shows Respect. That's right for the craft and for our system of government, which I'm very proud of. In our state our Grand Master Holds sacred. You know the rules and laws of our craft and I have I have great confidence in him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, he seems to be big on accountability, yep, yep, which is really encouraging to see leadership, care about accountability that I agree, hope for the future. Yep of the fraternity in Florida. And you know, when the Grand Master cares, everyone else is gonna start to care a lot more too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:We kind of see that people are using some of the things he's done as examples of this is why we need to be better.
Speaker 1:Right. This is why you can't do those bad things and speaking of grant the Grand Master, I know we said in a couple of podcasts that we were trying to get an interview with him going, but it sounds like they're just so busy.
Speaker 2:They're very busy.
Speaker 1:They're swamped, so it doesn't look like it's gonna happen this year. So hopefully next year we can get him as a past Grand Master. No, but I just, I just it would have been. It will be a great. I'm believing that it's gonna happen. He and the First Lady did express a Desire to do so, but schedules being what they are, we totally understand that that's.
Speaker 2:That's gotta be one busy job, man you gotta be, yeah, going, going and going and going man.
Speaker 1:So we totally get it. We're just a humble little podcast here in Sarasota, florida, with big, giant hopes and dreams. That's all we are. We're the, we're the ant that could man.
Speaker 2:It's. It's a little challenging for us because we are in Florida. And we do have more access to the people in Florida and we have seen that in Florida. It really benefits the entire craft to hear directly from these. Leaders who really are what they're passionate about, why they do the thing that they're just people.
Speaker 1:They're just normal guys and gals.
Speaker 2:Yeah because all, most of the craft gets. Honestly, most of them only get the words that are read at the district. Deputy visit right where they read the grandmasters words. Yeah so, yeah, you get the vision, but do you? You don't really understand who your grandmaster is, and so we Found that when we did interview them at the last Grand Lodge session, it was so beneficial to us personally. Right and also to many people that we heard listen to it, that they got a better connection to their leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah and they felt, yeah, more connected, like it was a better example of how to be amazed and hearing from them. So our goal is to hopefully get them sooner in the career rather than at the end. So while they're serving people know who they are better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, funny how that year just went. Zoom in by, worshipful master, just zoom in by where are we?
Speaker 2:We're in like 10.
Speaker 1:Month 10. I think you wasn't it like month three yesterday it's like gee man, it just flew by.
Speaker 2:I guess for me it feels like five years have passed in the last nine months. It was a. It was a lot this year. I took on too much, and that's a good lesson for everyone, every amazing, yes, everything, right you gotta, if you want to do a good job, you got to focus on. You know what you have time to focus on yeah, I'm feeling that too lately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard other people say, oh wow, after your master Mason you get into all these things and you're like whoa, I got overextended, all of a sudden yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1:I'm very happy With my, my position as treasurer at our lodge. I enjoy it. I enjoy working with the secretary, so I feel like I'm we're accomplishing some good things there. I became a Shriners so that I could be in motor core because I love riding motorcycles, but then I got involved in a whole bunch of other things not not bad things in themselves, but just too many things like you're on the competition degree team, right, and it's just all these little things keep happening and it's like, all right, come the new year.
Speaker 1:I am going to figure out. I've been journaling a lot of this stuff. I'm going to figure out oh. I love journaling.
Speaker 2:Can we read it on the air? You cannot.
Speaker 1:I would probably be in big trouble. Anybody ever caught any, anybody ever got any of those documents. I can get the black on this page. I can read and it's so, true, good stuff in here, but I, by the first of the year, I'm going to figure out what does my year look like, because I'm probably going to be starting a new business With my son.
Speaker 1:Oh, who's starting a plumbing company, and I have lots of experience in plumbing so I will probably help him start that business. Plumbers make a ridiculous amount of money in the state, yeah, yeah. So that's, that's gonna be a real blessing to work on that. So I will have to trim the fat a little bit here and there. So the first of the year For me, blue Lodge will always be first. It will always be first to me me too.
Speaker 1:I, I love it. I love the, just the purity of it. It's not a place we here in Florida. There's no alcohol allowed anywhere on the property, so it's not a party. I don't. I certainly anybody who knows me knows that I'm all about an adult beverage From time to time, including cigars and premium whiskies. I am about that and I don't mind it. But there's something about like last night we were in Lodge and it was. It was an off night. There was really there was no in there. I got there early and the Lodge was just, it was empty. It was clean. I turned on all the lights. I was by myself and I just realized how much I love this place.
Speaker 1:You figured out how to get the AC working and I figured out the AC was not working, or figured it out.
Speaker 2:He comes to me and says a the AC is not working. And I'm thinking, oh god, I want to be sitting here tomorrow in a monkey suit, like drenched in sweat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm already thinking, okay, what can we wear? Flip-flops, like. Okay, don't wear underwear, maybe a t-shirt.
Speaker 1:I don't know how we're gonna survive the truth kilt right, no, underwear right yeah. Yeah, true, kilt, not a dress not not, yeah, not a skirt, but thank god, you got the AC working. I, I just I don't know how I do it. I just snoop and snoop and snoop till I find it, and then we turned it back on and it was working. So there you go. That's, that rabbit hole is free.
Speaker 2:But I'm anyone who gives a crap you know, on my years coming to an end and I'm thinking how can I be of service to the craft? And I'm getting offered positions in the Scottish Rite and people aren't ticing me to get involved in New York, right, but my drive is still the Blue Lodge. I've turned down the positions I've been offered Because I don't want to overextend myself and I want to continue to stay focused in the Blue Lodge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:And everything we're doing with this podcast, with our positions that we've had and will continue to have in our district, are all about Blue Lodges and even what we're doing at the Grand Lodge level with the marketing reimbursement program and happy to announce that Brother Fred Packwood is now on that committee along with Brother John Schaefer. We will be going around next year talking a whole lot about the Grand Lodge marketing reimbursement program that is to help the Blue Lodges.
Speaker 1:Think about it.
Speaker 2:Everything we do is being funneled towards supporting the Blue Lodge.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right, and I don't see that changing for me in the future. I hope not. I hope not Because it's not going to change for me and you have been an absolute benefit to the craft with regard to Blue Lodge in this state and I can only see it just getting you know, taking it, we talk about it Next year. We're taking this podcast and our involvement in the craft to the next level.
Speaker 2:Heights that people won't believe we're going nuts.
Speaker 1:Nuts, though, and we're going nuts, we made it. We're over a year, I think, in podcasting.
Speaker 2:Just about a year now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just about a year. So we're probably close to 100 episodes, which is a big milestone.
Speaker 2:Wow, and it's not even hard.
Speaker 1:No, because we love it. That's why.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't know anything about podcasting. At the beginning of this stuff, fred was trying to convince me that you know, it's easy, it's fun. But then, right before we started, you said here's the thing. Yeah, here's the thing there are some things that might be hard for us and you explained like what typical podcast challenge.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like a plateau, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like this sense of not sticking to the schedule. All the challenges you told me about haven't been challenges for us.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Amazingly, Like content isn't an issue. We could sit down with no prep and say what do you want to talk about, and then do an hour and a half show on it and do an hour and a half on it and it's like a half decent show, right, imagine? If we had time to think about stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, that's coming next year. We do want to. I don't know if I should bring this up, but we are going to delve into a little bit of Albert Pike's stuff, a little bit here and there, and that's going to require a little bit of study, and also shout out to anybody who has knowledge regarding the man's work. Yeah, we'd certainly like to talk to you.
Speaker 2:There are some prolific Masonic authors, he being the primary one.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Albert Mackey being the second Yep, yeah. Right, and there's a lot of writings from these people out there that deserve being talked about and thought about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So we're going to try to. You know, we want to go through our Grand Lodge material from beginning to end. We want everybody to have a taste of all the material that Grand Lodge has put out for our benefit, because we want everybody who listens to the show to get that stuff out and read it from time to time and be proficient in it, because it matters. It matters, it makes you a Mason. That's what makes you a Mason Is that you know what Masonry is, you know what it isn't, and that's our primary goal. But, ooh, can I clarify?
Speaker 2:Yes, Go Go Because there was an issue we didn't talk about in the past out of respect, because the situation was heated in the moment. Somebody close to us publicly accused me of using my position as a worship master to further business interests. That oh right, yeah, okay, geez, it happens. This is what happens when you go out and do stuff. People assume your motives. They think.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Bad things, and we didn't want to talk about it at the time because it would be too obvious who it was Right. And it's like don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but really, at the end of the day, what we're focused on is giving tools and empowering Masons in. Grand Lodge to become better Masons.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We are not in this to become rich.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please Just check the books, man.
Speaker 2:I honestly don't know if there is a way to turn this into a profitable thing, but that doesn't mean you're not going to see us around doing things that cost money, because this is a way that we're going to be able to provide useful tools.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right To.
Speaker 2:Masons all over the world. Hopefully.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, look, masonry is it's not for free. You have dues that you pay, and there are, we do fundraisers, but somebody's got to put the plumbing in on any endeavor is going to take that nasty business of actually financing it Then you're going to have to power through things of people doing things like that, like trying to bring you down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know everyone here that's been in Masonry, that's done anything, is shaking their head, yep, yep. It doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter what you're trying to do, if you're trying to progress, if you're trying to push things forward. That is going to make some people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're going to lash out. Yes, they're going to say stuff that you have to be prepared for that. That's right, don't think?
Speaker 2:it's going to be all sunshine and rainbows. For us it's not.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:People are always trying to take shots and try to tell you things, or? Make you look bad and that's just something you have to deal with, and for us we're taking the Masonic path of let's not even address that.
Speaker 1:Right, we don't have to explain ourselves. No, we're not going to explain ourselves to people who have no desire to hear what we have to say in the first place.
Speaker 2:If there's a real concern, email or talk to us, yeah. That's right that would be your first step probably.
Speaker 1:It would show us that you desire to be Masonic in your conduct yes, and that your intention is a loving one.
Speaker 1:We say it all the time. You know if you're posting stuff online in any way, whether your cause is just or not, if you're posting online about another Mason without their knowledge or permission, then you're wrong. Even if what you're saying is right and just, you're still wrong, man, because the way you went about it is absolutely un-Masonic and nobody's going to listen to you. And in this particular situation, in the end we're still here, we're still moving forward, and that person is, I don't know, north Carolina. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know, virginia or something I don't know Somewhere up north, I don't know where.
Speaker 1:The person's a brother he just is a brother who has just reasons, but I don't know what they are. At the end of the day, it still stands. You know what you say, what I talked about when I first came on here that email I wrote. That email's going to stand forever.
Speaker 2:It's never going to go away. You put the words, and now they're out there.
Speaker 1:And now they're out there and you know I make this claim to people all the time and I should have listened to it myself and I did not. Now, this was not in a Masonic context, but those guys know I'm a Mason. They know that I'm a Christian and a Mason and it's probably was slightly unbecoming of me slightly.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give myself a little bit of a break there.
Speaker 1:But you know, when you put it out there, I'm still back on social media here. It doesn't go away. It's never going to go away. You can't take it back. So, be careful.
Speaker 2:It's given me a new respect for the Grand Lodge people because I never really before thought about the arrows that they're probably taking along the journey.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:You know, when you're coming up you're like, oh they're, they're just like. You think in your head things that aren't real right, because you just don't know. But now I have some. I'm not like a Grand Lodge person, but we are public and have done things in the history and for me it started in the Blue Lodge. I was always trying to push and advance and always, always, from day one, there were these slings and arrows.
Speaker 2:And so I have a new perspective on how much those people must have dealt with in their Masonic careers to get where they are and have survived it and are still here and still love the craft and love the brothers despite all that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, Can you imagine? No, I can actually the email that your email box alone must be a dreadful moment. Every morning you open it up and say what's going to be in here now you know.
Speaker 2:I hope it's not like that, but I could totally see it. I can see it oh.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it is. I'm sure they get. They get hammered by all kinds of kookiness. I'm going to call it all the time.
Speaker 1:All right, brother, we are at an hour and a half for this podcast. Talked about a lot of things. We're going to we're going to monitor that Texas situation because we're really interested in it. We want to know what the outcome is If there's anybody listening to the show who has any inside knowledge into this. If you want to remain anonymous and speak to us, we're more than happy to do that. If you want to come on apparently you're not allowed to, so we don't want you to break any Masonic laws in Texas or anything like that. There's a brother out there on a podcast. We're going to reach out to him. He's got a. He's got a podcast. It's a YouTube channel that he does. He's he's does Mason, so he's got a lot of knowledge into the situation. He's from Texas.
Speaker 2:Oh, he is, I think he is. So what's it called? It's got a drinks name in it Old fashioned. Yeah, that's it the old fashioned Masonic podcast.
Speaker 1:We're going to reach out to him See if he would come on and we can talk about it a little bit. We just want to get the entire community of masons nationwide involved in a conversation. Man, that's really what this podcast has always been about, and well, and here's the thing.
Speaker 2:We have a Masonic podcast. We love other Masonic podcasts we do. It's not like we're in competition you know.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, there's plenty of room.
Speaker 2:We're going to get plenty of room, that's right.
Speaker 1:If you listen to the very end, you are our hero. Thank you so much for being here, for listening to us. It means a lot to us. We get cards and letters from all over the globe. No cards. I'm an old man, I say cards. Yeah, I have not yet caught up to the 80s, so I'm working on it.
Speaker 2:Telegram by the minute. You see, I got me a telegram. Telegram she's gone crazy.
Speaker 1:All right, brothers, you know. Again, thank you so much for listening. Feel free to email us, let us know what you guys think. Send cards, send cards and letters to Fred, but send your emails to Chris, who is actually into the 90s. So yeah, anyways, guys, again thanks a lot, and this has been another great episode. Chris, I will see you in the next one. Thank you, brothers.