Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Connect with us on:
Email us directly!
Hey Chris, yeah, fred, what's a Mason? That's a really good question, fred.
Speaker 2:You've reached the internet's home for all things masonry. Join Chris and I as we plumb the depths of our ancient craft, from the common gavel to the trowel. Nothing is off the table, so grab your tools and let's get to work. This is On the Level. Oh no, there it is the Rebel. Yell, wow, wow. Two energy drinks this morning, brother.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm done.
Speaker 2:Oh, let's go Alright. Well, I was kind of hoping to keep it a little quiet. You know, last night was my birthday party, right?
Speaker 1:You were a little saucy. When I talked to you it was early in the evening.
Speaker 2:I was a little saucy.
Speaker 1:I gotta be honest with you. How'd you make out?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so I went from hanging out at my favorite biker bars Divey dark biker bars Rode the bike out and had a good time. Had a good time. With your wife no, no, no, no, she was busy doing other things.
Speaker 1:Ah, so when you say biker bar, you mean ladies established.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. You know that is not me, that's not my game. I just want to make sure the listeners know. If you ride a motorcycle and you do enjoy premium cigars and or beers and or whiskies, you know exactly what I'm talking about. There are bars all over Florida Old, old, dark, danky, janky bars all over the place that guys like us love to go to and have a couple beers and just hang out and talk. That's it.
Speaker 1:I don't know so much of a danky janky bar. I love it oh.
Speaker 2:I love those places. There's some great ones. Way out, east In the middle of nowhere, there's this place called Charlotte's Web. Out in the middle of nowhere, man, in the middle of farm country, there's this shack and there's nothing but a bunch of motorcycles out front.
Speaker 1:You know, and you go in, man, and it's just that it's exactly the scene you're thinking of right now in your mind, right From dust till bone. Ah, I love it, love it. Sheetches out front. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's all great. Hey, mate, come on in.
Speaker 2:We got cheap drinks, yeah, and it is too. It's not expensive, you know. You can still have a couple of drinks and it don't cost you 50 bucks, you know. So it's good.
Speaker 1:I don't know why my New York accent is coming out here, I'm not sure why, but anyway, today is the first day of your 61st sea year on this planet.
Speaker 2:I've been here 61 years man.
Speaker 1:Yikes, it's a big deal.
Speaker 2:It's a big deal. You know this. Last year and you and I celebrated a year ago, last night.
Speaker 2:We organized a little surprise party A little surprise party at another not janky place, but it was fun. But this has been a really amazing journey for me and I started that 60th year with a lot of prayer and seeking for my own life and direction, and I believe that I'm a year later. I journaled every day, really, of my 60th year yeah, every day. So I went back through my journal and if you're out there listening and you don't journal I'm not I would encourage everyone to do it, to work on it, but it's not easy.
Speaker 2:It's not easy to get into the habit. Once you get into the habit, man, it becomes a huge part of your life and it's really, really amazing to be able to go back and read where you were at a year ago or two years ago and kind of see where you're at now. It's an amazing process that I'm really grateful. I did, I did it, you know so, and there's been, there's been, a lot of growth, even my life personally, but there's also been some areas that are still, that still need work. Man, I guess I'm still human I'm not super human, yet Still a, still a you're super human to me.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, brother. I appreciate that All right. So what are you doing lately? What's going on with you?
Speaker 1:I don't know man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know where I am, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I saw as me the chapter advisor for the Sarasota Dmoley chapter. We had our first advisory council meeting last night Nice Very humbling.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 1:Work and do an organization where everyone knows what's going on and you don't.
Speaker 2:Oh, and you have to be running things and you're kind of in charge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, but our chapter dad Terry Bivens. He owns Bivens Think Taekwondo Academy in.
Speaker 2:Bradenton oh, okay.
Speaker 1:He's a chapter dad, so he had me covered. All right, cool the advisors are awesome, so really really excited to help grow.
Speaker 2:That Well I and I know it'll grow with you, with you in there working, I know it'll and it needs to.
Speaker 1:We need that.
Speaker 2:Dmoley chapter here in our district 23, to to be growing and blossom, being and moving forward, moving, moving forward. Everything, free masonry, you know everything for everything for you.
Speaker 1:So we have finalized all of the speaker times, including our keynote speaker.
Speaker 2:I think he's talking about the symposium in January. Yes, on the 13th.
Speaker 1:January 13th.
Speaker 2:January 13th yes.
Speaker 1:Go down the level of Fred and Chriscom and you can find all the information and in fact. So that's going to be from nine to five.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, it's a long day.
Speaker 1:Nine to five, but we're going to have a break, but it's a jam packed.
Speaker 2:Yeah With all kinds of masonic education fellowship. There's going to be an after party, a before party and a during party. So, boy, yeah, lunch, yeah, a really really really good lunch is included in the ticket price.
Speaker 1:Sure, and a drink ticket, and a drink ticket. So wash it down with a whiskey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we want as many people from the state of Florida to come down and be part of this.
Speaker 1:Or anywhere else. I'm trying to convince people from New York to come down in Texas.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:Talking to some guys, but you know, this is because you and I went to Hillsborough Lodge last year.
Speaker 2:That's right, and one of the Warshawville Carol shout out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, richard Carroll, one of the speakers that we saw, really stood out to me and I've been kind of a fan of his ever since.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:His name is Warshawville Daniel Molina, where?
Speaker 2:are you going with this brother?
Speaker 1:He's here. Yeah, right now. Oh my, are you there? I?
Speaker 3:am here.
Speaker 2:Brother. That's. That was quite an introduction there, brother, wow.
Speaker 3:He's here.
Speaker 2:Brother, how are you?
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you so much for letting me be on the show. I'm a big fan and it's super cool to finally be on here and hold up. Before I continue, I have to say oh yes. Happy birthday, fred.
Speaker 1:Oh, happy birthday. Thank you, brother.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. I had a birthday wishes yesterday, which was really awesome, and from all over the place, and I am loved. I'm in the right place with regard to that, brother. So, daniel, how are you doing, man? What's going on with you?
Speaker 3:I'm doing great over here in Miami. It's a little bit sunny, it's a little bit cold, so we get the best of both worlds, yeah. I'm very happy to, obviously. Yeah, it's a little bit cold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's 72. I'm here in the mornings.
Speaker 3:I get very chilly. You know when it's around that time, so you know it's cold for me. So that's why I say you know.
Speaker 2:I know Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do we lose you? Yeah, oh no, go ahead. Sorry, brother, I stepped on you. I stepped on you. Brother, keep going. How are you doing, man? What's going on in your life? There we go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a couple of lectures lined up. You know, helping my lodge out throughout the end of the year. I, you know, I help schedule some of the presentations at our lodge involved in the district. So I'm doing a lot of work and I'm very happy and I'm proud about some. I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1:You. Yeah, this, I mean this is we're talking to. I look at Daniel as like a rising star. Yeah right, not just in the state, but probably probably across the country and hopefully internationally at some point. I definitely. I've seen him speak. What I saw you do was the taxa hoax presentation.
Speaker 2:Fred and I yeah, that was so good and you know it was a great presentation.
Speaker 1:You're obviously a great speaker, which I'm an admirer of. I've always struggled with public speaking. Fred loves it, he's like a fish he's like. Put me in front of people, please, and I'm going to talk about my favorite subject, me stand behind you.
Speaker 2:I don't want to, I don't want them looking at me.
Speaker 1:So when I see a good public speaker, I'm really like a you know, a moth to a flame. I'm like I tell me more, I want to see what's going on here. I'm observing your gestures and the way you're breathing, really focusing on your public speaking skills and that's one thing.
Speaker 3:That's one thing. That's kind of been natural for me just because I have a background in the school system.
Speaker 3:So, I've actually worked in an academia my entire life. Now I do marketing for you, for FIU, but previous to that I was teaching English and public speaking. So you know I've been able to work with students and also teach them some skills that I use for them to be able to hone. You know, for them to be able to hone in on those skills and I think that this is public speaking is something that's very important, especially to free masonry. We might not think about it, but the benefits are twofold. At one point in your life as a free mason, you're going to have to speak in front of an audience, whether it's in front of your lodge or the district or whatever the case may be. You're going to have to speak, especially if you're involved in ritual and if, for whatever reason, you don't. It's a very important skill to develop for the outside world, for the profane world, you know. So I think that the public speaking skills, especially if we're teaching them within the craft, is very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, when I joined I specifically asked he's now our district deputy right Warshville, tom Davy. He met me at the lodge and I said, okay, I'm good with not knowing anything, but just tell me there's no public speaking. So no, no public speaking at all. I said all right, all right, I'm in. And then soon as I got initiated, they're like all right, you gotta get prepped for this, give back. And I was like what, wait, what, what, what is that? Oh, it's public speaking. Wouldn't this be public?
Speaker 2:speaking, yeah, kind of duped on that one.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you're right, every Mason is going to do public speaking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, just part of the gig and part of public speaking is, of course sorry bro is, of course, knowing your content, having your content, understanding it and being able to articulate it in a way where people grasp it. And, daniel, when we saw your presentation, that's one of the things I recognized right away and I didn't know that you were in education. But it makes sense when we see when those who come to the symposium on January 13th coming up soon get your tickets, they'll see how your presentations are laid out in such a way where it's obvious that you've done this before and tell us a little bit about don't give it away but do you have your presentation prepared for our symposium?
Speaker 3:You got anything put together. Yet I do actually, and I think it's really cool that you had mentioned journaling, because journaling is actually a big part of my presentation. I'm gonna be giving a lecture on Stoicism and Freemasonry.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:So the Hellenistic School of Thought, the Philosophical School of Stoicism, it's called the Hyramic Meditations how Freemasonry Crafts a Stoic Lifestyle. And one of the arguably my favorite part of the whole lecture is talking about the similarities between journaling, the Stoic Act of journaling, and then also looking at the tracing board.
Speaker 2:The Stoic.
Speaker 3:Tracing Board. So I think it's super cool that you mentioned journaling, because journaling is something that I do Really and you know regularly today yeah, I do it and it's something that I also encourage other brothers to do. And also, just to piggyback off of that, I wanna give a shout out to the first three Knott's Masonic podcasts after I had given the lecture for them. They're based out of Canada. One of the brothers he's a past master. He's a past district deputy. He developed a journal that is for Freemasons.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 3:So it's a journal that you give to an entered apprentice once he's been initiated and then it encourages him to write down, obviously not giving away any of the secrets, but just reflecting on how was your experience was something that you learned. Have you visited another lodge? Have you put on Masonic education? Have you visited an installation? So I thought that was really cool. Oh yeah, journaling is a big part of my life and I always try to have other brothers do it as well, if they can.
Speaker 1:I have a question for both of you there, because I'm not a journaler. I think I might have for like a year when I was young, but I was really focused on writing to my future self. I was writing letters to myself like, oh man, I really hope you do this and I can't wait until my life isn't like that. I assume that's not what you're doing. You're writing about what's happening in your life so that your future self can come back and remember it.
Speaker 2:Is that the?
Speaker 1:purpose of the journaling.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not the way I look at it it is. For me, it's an extension of my thought process. So my thoughts, just working out your thoughts on paper, and I like to draw in there and draw visualized pictures of what.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at and working through Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade book. We've got like Templar photos and Etchings in here. Yeah right, yeah no.
Speaker 2:No, it's no one else. I don't know about you, daniel, but for me if someone were to find my journal, it really wouldn't make too much sense to them. There's a lot of stuff in there that they could read and find out about me. Sure, but it isn't me writing to anyone. It's me recording what's going on in my life, my struggles, my feelings, some things that I want to do, setting goals. I do a lot of calendar stuff in there, but not day-to-day appointment calendar but just kind of setting dates for the future, things that I want to do. But mostly for me it's my struggles. If you read back the last year of my journal, you'll see my internal turmoil and struggles and those things that I want to improve in my life, my walk before God and my pleadings and prayers and stuff like that you would find in there. What about you, daniel? What do you got? What do you?
Speaker 3:got yeah. To answer your question, chris, I think that that definitely counts as journaling. That's what you want it to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:There are instances where I do that myself, where I'm reflecting on emotions that I'm trying to work through, maybe certain issues that I'm trying to rationalize.
Speaker 3:There are certain things that I want to maybe talk about, like today at my journal about having been on your podcast and what a great experience it was.
Speaker 3:Because Not over yeah, because this is like Think about how cool it is, especially if you guys, for example, are to journal about having a podcast. Not a lot of people might be able to do that and I think that that's super cool. So I think that at first, especially when I'm talking about my personal experience, I think that at first I would look at a journal and I would say, man, this journal looks so cool, what I write in it has to be equally as good. So that actually prevented me from writing at first. But then, when I just started accepting that, hey, these are personal thoughts that I keep to myself and I can reread, I think that whatever I write in it is gonna be okay. So any little milestone that I can hit or any accomplishment that I can reach, whether it be personal or professional, whatever the case may be I like to write about it, just to be able to reflect on it.
Speaker 2:That's such a good point, brother, because when I first started journaling I'm a terrible speller. I'm terrible, I mean, I can't spell to save my life. So, and that always prevented me from journaling. For some reason, I felt like I had to be able to write everything out so clean and perfect. And once I got past that, I was like this is my journal, man, I can write anything I want in there. I can use hieroglyphics, for goodness' sakes, if I wanted to.
Speaker 2:Once I got past that, where it didn't have to be perfect, it was just my. It's an extension. I look at it as an extension of my thought process. It's actually taking the thoughts out of my head, the insanity that's in my head, and putting it on paper for future learning to go back and say, man, I'm still struggling with this, what was going on six months ago in my life? And I do document some of the things and milestones in my life I'm sure you do that too Something that happened good, bad or indifferent whatever it is, if it's a milestone, you write through it. You know, in July of this year I lost my son and that journaling section right there is super, super helpful for me to see how I went through it and stuff.
Speaker 2:So yeah it's yeah, but you're right. The point is is that it's your journal. If you're out there listening and you've been considering doing something like that, I recommend a moleskin. I use a tablet called moleskin. Is it actually moleskin? It could have been, but now it's synthetic moleskin.
Speaker 1:No doubt but it's a really great, I think, the synthesize.
Speaker 2:It's a really great binded, binded.
Speaker 3:It's a blade runner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a blade runner.
Speaker 1:I want a witch's ass journal. Oh, okay, synthetic witch's ass journal.
Speaker 2:Well, let us know when you get that done, brother We'll all right, I'm gonna start working on it. That's a little creepy, I don't know Halloween's over man. Okay, can we move on now?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, let's move on. I know how to kill a topic.
Speaker 2:Talk about witch's ass is so you know, Daniel, I don't know how much of the show you've been listening to lately. We've been talking a little bit about all this stuff going on out in Texas lately. Are you aware of any of that?
Speaker 3:I'm aware of it somewhat. I'm not really aware of the actual details. I'm assuming you're talking about the past, grandmaster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, what the stuff is going on out there.
Speaker 1:It's tough to know too much because they have that policy. Yeah, they can't really talk about things.
Speaker 2:They put a gag order on the whole thing. So Chris reached out to them and they came back and said look, we'd be more than happy to talk to you about it after the first of the year, because we are under a gag order and they honored it because they're good masons. So we're kind of hoping. But the whole point is, you know, we see, and I think you would agree with us, brother, that we see kind of an ascendancy of masonry coming back to where it once was, you know, to this place in young men's lives. You know where it can benefit this country. And for us we're looking at Texas, thinking to me it's the same old thing, it's the old guard doesn't want to give up to the young guard and it looks like it's that struggle, you know, and we see that everywhere in masonry. And I think it's a positive thing, because positive change always brings with it, you know, a certain level of struggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you can even see during COVID that the two things that people were looking for were there was a rise in people being interested in stoicism, which is one of the reasons why I even started developing this lecture, but then there was a big emphasis on freemasonry. You know, there were a lot of different brothers that were setting up small little groups, meeting on Zoom and just giving lectures. They were providing lectures every day of the week. Some of those online bodies are still active providing lectures every day and people are tuning in and they're visiting lodges, you know. So you're seeing a significant increase of young men that want to look for this organization because they want a better themselves.
Speaker 1:Oh for sure. We are pretty actively involved in recruiting for the state of Florida and there's a whole generation of people seeking exactly what we have to offer. They just don't know we exist. So it's a matter of getting ourselves out there. And the public speaking, the blogging, these podcasts, I think, are really expanding our reach in a way that freemasonry.
Speaker 3:It's also part of Masonic education, you know that's also part of Masonic education too, because it's not about us educating ourselves, but also us educating the public, so that they know that we're not the Illuminati, you know.
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that. I was just talking to a fellow craft who's a fan of the show yesterday and I was like, what feedback do you have? And he said, honestly, some of this stuff's going over my head. It'd be really good for you guys to talk about the things that the profane talk about freemasonry specifically. Like you said the Illuminati connections the. Satanism that we worship.
Speaker 2:I don't know that we eat babies whatever the heck is out there Something to do with goats. I don't know what's the deal with goats Like. Where does this stuff come?
Speaker 1:from. Really we should like dig into that and talk about it, so people understand better.
Speaker 3:We're this negative thinking that really, yeah, some of those things that you're looking at is.
Speaker 3:It goes back to the Taxill hopes, that presentation that I had given at Hillsborough Lodge where you had this. Some people might be surprised to hear, but he was actually a brother who was writing under the pseudonym of Leo Taxill, and this was after he had left the craft, he had been expelled from the craft and basically what he was saying was he had had a very contentious history with the Catholic Church. So he kind of wanted one of them and say, hey, well, you know I've been a brother, I know I've been initiated, I know some of their secrets, but the outside world doesn't know that. So let me try to see if I can just create these outrageous stories and sell them to the public, and sell them to the Catholic Church and, you know, kind of prove that they're gullible. You know, and that's that's exactly what he did. He started writing under different pseudonyms. You know he had created this character that was called Diana Vaughan, who was allegedly like this goddess that we worship. He said that Albert Pike was the dark pope.
Speaker 3:You know, and that there was like a central temple in front of the Vatican and we communicated through this telephone where demons connected and they were sending messages across the world. There were these Rosecroy, if I'm not mistaken, rosecroy ninjas, you know, like these, these masons that were kind of very stuff like and infiltrating these different organizations.
Speaker 3:But, then this is where this is where you also get this concept of there's like this, this, this unique group of pop that is running everything. You know which was the, the, the, the, the Pallatus there that you mentioned, the Palladium. You know which was this androgynous group? Androgynous because it included members that were both female and male Diana Vaughan was alleged to have been a member and then they were the ones that were kind of running the show around the world. So that's why, you know, I've even had that happen to me where, back when I was just a master mason and joined any other pen and bodies, they asked me well, what degree are you on? I'm a master mason. What degree is that? I'm a third degree Also.
Speaker 3:you really don't know what's right, right, we all get that experience and you see that, you know, you see remnants of that, that that was also something that was, you know, peddled by the Third Reich, you know when, when Hitler was kind of saying that the Freemasonry was like an extension of Jewish faith.
Speaker 3:You know of them trying to rule the world and things like that. So a lot of times people are repeating these things not knowing that they're, you know, they're deeply anti Semitic they're. They're, they're deeply rooted in lies and things that have been, you know, proven as lies. Because after he had come, after Leo Texo had conducted this hoax, he actually held a press conference, which is where he was supposed to show to the world who Diana Von was. Everybody had gathered around to see it and he pretty much said, hey, this is. You know, this has been a lie. You know I've been lying to you this entire time. I've developed all these stories. But it had reached so much of the public already that people were saying, well, the real text is actually being held by Freemasons or you know.
Speaker 3:Diana Von was actually killed, so that's why they had, you know he had to create this other story. So you know a lot of these things are coming from these. You know dark places of just like ignorance and you know, again, anti Semitism. So that's why I say that it's really a matter of Masonic education, because it's not only about us educating ourselves because I've given this lecture before and there are some brothers that have told, come up to me after like I had no idea this, this had gone on, you know, but it's also educating the public and saying, hey, listen, this is not who we are, because this was, this was proven false.
Speaker 1:Right. The guy who wrote it literally said ha, joking. Yeah, he recanted the entire thing. Yeah, but that's not good enough. See, they need, they got to have that. The fantasy is more interesting. The fantasy is way more interesting than the truth. It's more entertaining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:But uh, yes, the Taxilhokes presentation you did. The second thing that flagged me that you weren't a normal public speaker is that at the end of your presentation you had a list of citations.
Speaker 2:Oh, right yeah.
Speaker 1:Where you got your information and that's not something you see every day in a presentation is sourcing the information you provided to prove that it's true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's actually I lodge um Hibiscus, number 275, here in Miami. My mentor is right Warshford Adrian Castro. At the time he was the chairman of Masonic Education, not now. I'm the chairman in the lodge of Masonic Education and something that we have been able to uphold in the lodge is, for example, when a, when a brother gets initiated, not only does he have to, you know, give back his proficiency, but we also encourage a brother to give a presentation Right. So that way he is, uh, he's involved in, you know, masonic education, he's involved in learning what he is a member of, right, because we're all members of this. So we, we should want to, you know, learn about it. And then we're also working on those public speaking skills.
Speaker 3:So that's something that from the jump, you know, when I went through and I was told, hey, you know you, you know we, we would like for for you to give a presentation, I was very much involved in, you know, giving as many presentations as I could, because that's what that's actually what I had joined Freemasonry for. I like the more educational side of it. So, you know, I want to give a shout out to Hibiscus, I want to give a shout out to Redwish Adrian Castro, because that's also a big part of okay, you're, you're finding this information. Now let's cite it so that if other people want to go into more research they know where it is. But then now people are seeing that this isn't just something that's made up. You know, you were able to to cite, you know as many sources as possible for your argument.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right and that's one of the things that that, when I saw that, I realized that you, you're, you know that you definitely have an educational background, or I didn't realize it at the time, but I knew that you were a professional, you know, public speaker, because you had, you had the receipts you know you brought the receipts for everything that you said. So, no matter what anybody says about it, you know you can always go. Well, did you, did you look it up? Did you, did you do?
Speaker 3:the research.
Speaker 2:Did you do your homework? Here You're due diligence, because a lot of people will. You know, people can, people want to dispute this stuff, but when, when it's all there listed out where they can do their own research and they don't, well then we know who we're talking to. At that point you know we're talking to somebody who's hungry for controversy, you know that, and not actually hungry for truth, you know. So that was, yeah, that that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Let me, let me let's go back to stoicism for a minute. I want to read you something. This would be Google's definition of stoicism. I, I, I like it, google's definition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did research through Google, uh, uncle Google, and uh, and up pops, up pops a really really serious looking definition which a 95% of the time is total crap. This one, however, it seems good. Here it is Sto stoicism teaches the development of self control and fortitude as a means of overcoming destructive emotions. The philosophy holds that becoming a clear and unbiased thinker allows one to understand the universal reason for logos we think about that Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah 100%, I think. I think that's a, that's a perfect definition and that's actually something a lot, a lot of a lot of those points are things that I actually cover in the in the lecture. You know, they, the, the stoics, also looked to integrate the four cardinal virtues, you know, which, as we know, are very important in the enterprise, the degree of pre-nationary as a whole. You know, so I, I would the 100%, I agree that that's a, that's a great definition for socialism.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I liked that I guess we are pretty stoic in our. I guess this is a Hellenistic kind of a Greek idea it is.
Speaker 3:And yeah, because it's it's ethical development.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:At its core. It's it's ethical development. That's what pre-nationary is. I mean.
Speaker 3:Even in our tagline we make good men better you know we're, we're looking at we're looking at, even if you want to look at the, the, the refraction and the perfection of the perfect dash, right, it's a perfect, those are perfect, our, our chemical symbols of, you know, wanting to be better, right, being the, the, the rough asshers, the rude and imperfect man, and then the perfect dash, is that that perfection that we aspire to be? And then how can we get to that? Well, we look at the tracing board, right, where in the master has run the designs. So we know the work that has been done, but we also know the work that needs to be done.
Speaker 3:So that's the connection that I make to journaling right. I can journal and say this is the work that I've done thus far in order to get to X spot emotionally, physically, mentally, you know. So that that's kind of the connection that I was making there. Yeah, when it comes to journaling and the tracing board, Love it.
Speaker 2:I love it Right, that's so good.
Speaker 1:So tell us you were master of hibiscus lodge.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was. I had the pleasure of serving. I was during the COVID years, so I had 2020 and 2021 is when.
Speaker 3:I was master of hibiscus, yeah, which was which was a little bit difficult, obviously, given given the time. We had a lot of brothers that faced COVID, that lost loved ones during COVID, yeah, and one of the things that I really pushed for us to do was for us to meet online and provide education for anybody that wanted to join. Obviously, it was a time where a lot of brothers were at home, we weren't allowed to meet in lodges, so I wanted to make sure that we could at least meet over the internet, you know, online through zoom, and not only that, let's give brother something to to look forward to. So every month, you know, at our lodge at hibiscus, before our stated meeting, we always give a lecture. You know it's open to the public, so that any prospective candidates, if they want to ask any questions, that's the time to do it. We provide lectures on a wide array of topics so they can be more historical, esoteric, whatever you know, whatever our membership is interested in, and what we just did was transfer that online.
Speaker 3:We had some brothers from across the country, like Renee, who's also going to be speaking at the symposium, gave a lecture for us. Yes, worshful, worshful. Jamie Paul Lamb, if I'm not mistaken, also gave gave a presentation, angel Malar. So we wanted to make sure that we had something for the brothers to you know, to be able to look forward to and enjoy and engage in fellowship, even if we needed to to meet, you know, meet online or not in person. You know, eric Arnes, and also another another good friend of mine who gave a lecture online.
Speaker 1:So we had him on the show.
Speaker 2:I believe he wrote a book, yes, yeah, we had him on the show covered.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, he's big in the Scottish right. I think he was. He had shared some tips of ideas from the Scottish right.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, it was a good interview. It's a good book. It was well written.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we have so many talented speakers in the state of Florida going around, absolutely, it's just amazing.
Speaker 3:I mean, or maybe has it always been this way.
Speaker 1:We're kind of new. I was raised in 2018. How long have you been amazing?
Speaker 3:I actually now in November. November 1st was my, my seventh birthday as a master Mason. I was raised November 1st 2016. So you know, so I came in 2016.
Speaker 1:Were there people out there doing this, when you, when you were coming up, did you see a lot of lecturing going on.
Speaker 3:I don't think that, that it was like displayed online.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But I do know that there that we did have several brothers that were, you know, giving giving lectures. The only thing is that now, which I think is perfect, you know, we're seeing the flyers, we're seeing the pictures, you know, and that I think that that creates engagement, not only for other lodges to want to invite them, but also other states to want to have the brothers come in and give lectures. Oh yeah, and also, I think that's a great thing.
Speaker 1:Have they started asking you to go to drive or fly to other states yet?
Speaker 3:Why? Actually, earlier this year I had the pleasure of going to California. I gave a lecture in a South Pasadena Lodge. I've been able to guest edit two of their issues, so I did one on stoicism and Freemasonry and I did another one on the Taxo Hoax. I recently contributed an article on the rise of rhetoric, so it was on rhetoric in the craft degrees and I was able to give my lecture on stoicism over there at South Pasadena Lodge. It was actually their 10 year anniversary of their illumination lecture series, so it's super cool. This month Juan Sepulveda was the invited guest.
Speaker 3:Oh nice, so it's super cool that we were able to be a part of that, and then we're finalizing some other events that I might be doing across the country, so I'm really looking forward to that.
Speaker 1:Across the country. Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's great. I'm so happy to see that happening because yeah, it's super cool to be able to represent Florida that way, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in my life. Yeah, and sharing your time and passion to just spread light and Freemasonry. I mean that's our calling, right? That's what we're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's what I like to do. And so you are a committeeman, I know, in your district this year yes for yeah, I'm the committeeman of Masonic Education for Wright-Warshfield District, deputy Grandmaster Robert Grunfeld, and then I also have the honor of being the zone chairman, zone seven chairman, for Masonic Leadership Training. Oh, that's awesome, oh wow okay, yeah, so I'm pretty involved in Masonic Education.
Speaker 1:So you're familiar with Bill Katsulis then.
Speaker 3:I am yes, I actually was able to. We did a state Zoom class and I was able to teach one of the modules. He taught another one. I was a Warshfield. Chuck Dyer taught another one and. Warshfield, patrick Tessier taught another one yes, right, wow, it's crazy. We know all these people now.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Such involved brothers.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:It's just so fun to be part of a community like this that's just focused on positivity and how, lifting each other up and sharing information.
Speaker 3:It's really something special. The great thing is that, the cool thing about Freemasonry and I always tell, especially if brothers are getting initiated, I tell them listen, Freemasonry will provide you the platform to do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:If you want to put on an event, the lodge will support you in doing that. If you want to give a presentation, the lodge will support you in doing that. So, whatever you want to do, bring it up to the Warshfield Master and the lodge, because I'm 95% sure that you'll be able to do it with help. So I think that that's such a beautiful thing that the craft provides to us. Yep.
Speaker 1:We talked to, like I said, a lot of people interested in joining and almost everyone says they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's what Masonry has to offer. The topic that Chris and I will be talking about is answering the question does Masonry have something to offer to this hurting country?
Speaker 2:Just all the answers, that's all and we believe it does, and I know you do as well Is that 100%? George Washington said that free Masonry is indispensable in the training for young men. I'm butchering the quote there, but what he meant was is that every young man should go through the structure of free Masonry, regardless of religious background, familial background, it doesn't matter, none of that matters. The training that you get just a young man can get can help him to find out who he is. And we have a real epidemic in this country of young men who don't know who they are. And if you don't know who you are, you cannot know what to do in this world.
Speaker 2:You have to have some sort of foundation and I'm really excited to see because, as you guys were talking about all this education going on, the state of Florida, I think, is poised to really lead the way. I mean, of course we're Floridians, of course we're going to say that, but I see, but I'm hoping that these symposiums, what you're doing and what so many others, what Katsulis is doing, it really lends itself to an ascendancy, like I keep saying, to this ancient craft which has something to offer to the wayward sons out there. I'm doing research for our talk and some of the stats with regard to young men, young American men 18 to 30, is just alarming, brother. It is really alarming. They are lost and we're losing an alarming amount of them to drug abuse, drug overdose, suicide, jail and prison. It is absolutely alarming and my contention, our contention, is that Free Masonry does have something to offer a young man who hasn't got any training life training.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would agree 100%, because to me it's it's an identity crisis.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that young young men you know young people in general are looking for someone to look up to, and we don't have those types of people, you know, we don't, we, we don't.
Speaker 3:Look at the mythological heroes, you know, I guess we have now, you know, the Avengers and stuff like that, but I don't think that they've been able to Be part of the zeitgeist in such a way that we want to aspire to be them. You know, whereas back then, I guess people you know, ancient times, you had people looking up to Hercules and some of the gods and wanting to, to aspire to their more virtuous side. And I think that this is what Freemasonry offers right now to young men. You know, it's someone to look up to, the the opportunity to be a better person and, most importantly, to learn about yourself, you know, because that that's not the core of the craft. It's learning about yourself, how to improve yourself, finding out what makes you tick, finding out what makes you better, and I think that that's that that's the answer that Freemasonry offers to, to society and especially young young men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, you know 100% we yeah, we're practicing for the state competition degree team and our primary instructor is a right worshipful who's won several times and, you know, led other teams to win, and that's that's he. He gave us a speech and that was kind of the point he said. When you reach a position of leadership, it's my hope that you lean into just being who you are. Don't worry about stress about plans and taking over this or doing that.
Speaker 2:Really focus on giving the people as much of you as you can right, which requires you which requires you to know, to know who you are, or at least have a basic understanding of your belief, structures, what, what you stand on, what you stand against. You know, and being able to articulate that in a way to your fellows, in a way that shows gentleness and respect. You know, that's the the true, the true rhetoric Right is is being able to convey your passions, your beliefs, to another person in a way that they understand it and might actually, you know, learn from it and or adopt it. You know, that's that's, that's that true ability to speak. I talked to a lot of young men out there. Man, they don't, they don't know how to talk. Man, they don't know how to explain themselves. I mean basic, just basic needs. Man, they can't, they, they don't know how to talk.
Speaker 2:And the men who have gone through our ancient craft are, they have something to offer. That young man who's struggling to, to be able to take his thoughts, his, his anger, his fear, all of this stuff that's inside his head. And there's a man out there who's a Mason who could help him to. You know to to, to articulate that, get it out, get it amongst his brothers and be raised up. You know to to contribute, because that's really what it's about we need.
Speaker 2:So you know they say so, go the young men, so go the country. In in in society, so goes the society. Sorry, but that, and that's really true, and our young men are going, going by the wayside, and and this country will follow, will follow right along if we don't do something. I know I'm beating this thing to death, but I'm really passionate about it because I really think we have something to offer, man. I really think we do and I really think it's going to happen, as long as we continue To, to push it, you know, and to and to encourage brothers I don't care who you are, if you're a Mason out there and you're listening to this Get involved in education, man. It either educate or be educated. Yeah, you know. Get, get something going, man. Go go to your lodge and affect positive change For the future of this craft.
Speaker 1:January 13th.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you tell January 13th go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because that lineup is crazy. For, for, for the symposium, you know, you have our senior grand warden right where she will tell you a tally on Sepulveda, and and brother Renee Perez. I think that you know the people that that attend they're, they're in for a great time, you know, because all of these, these men are great speakers right, listen a lot of great things to share.
Speaker 1:I. I spoke with right worshipful, a tally, and he was what am I gonna talk about for this long? He doesn't like to give long speeches. He's like, I like to talk for like five minutes, but I'd rather have back and forth. I said what? What You're talking my love language, so I was like look, and then we had about a 30 minute back and forth Conversation just us, and at the end I'm like there you go. That's exactly what it's gonna be like. I am so in.
Speaker 2:I love this, so he wants to talk baby.
Speaker 1:He wants to talk to us. He wants to talk to the people that are gonna show up about the fraternity in its future.
Speaker 3:Yeah and it's not gonna be.
Speaker 1:He's not gonna be giving you a long speech and trying to preach to you. He wants to have a conversation, which is exciting. It's not often you get to sit down and talk to a person who's gonna be leading the state right, yeah they're there and and really here and get to ask questions of the person. So I'm really excited having there and you guys I I know I've seen one and I've seen you speak and you guys are just top-notch Right yeah it's gonna be a great day. Yeah, everyone should come and get exposed.
Speaker 1:You, I don't think you've been in our area yet. I don't think you've been down in the Sarasota ish area.
Speaker 3:No, I haven't, I haven't yet. Yeah, I haven't. It's actually gonna be my, my very first time, so that you know I'm even more excited for that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you're gonna bring your girlfriend right.
Speaker 3:Yes, she's, she's coming along with me, yanich, you know she's looking forward to it as well. She's, she's. She's actually very interested and always attending our lectures that are that are open to the public and she, you know she likes seeing any speakers that she can talking about Freemasonry, so she's very happy about that. She's looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:My wife refuses to come and watch me, but I think if your girlfriend's coming I can convince her to come and at least hang out with her.
Speaker 3:So I'll tell her, you know, you know, yeah, and it will have a great time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah, my wife will try to get her all, saucy though she might be that's fine.
Speaker 3:Hey, that's great. Okay, she's okay with that.
Speaker 1:Excellent, now. Now, this is a venue where people can actually sit and have a drink and listen to you if they want the alcohol is allowed here, which is a little bit different. I don't think I've ever seen a Masonic venue quite like that. Yeah but it should make for a much more casual environment and that was the hope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you don't feel it's so formal.
Speaker 1:It's like right, it's a bit of a formal venue. You'll be on a stage right with speakers and lights and all that but, it should be pretty open back and forth dialogue between the speakers in the audience. I'm hoping, and a positive way. Don't worry, they're not gonna throw a raw fruit at you or anything you know.
Speaker 3:Make sure that they bring a lot of tomatoes your tomato guy.
Speaker 2:Okay, I like the rotten lettuce myself, daniel tomato got it Okay.
Speaker 1:Lettuce peels right off those tomatoes, explode after.
Speaker 3:My girlfriend will probably be throwing most of them.
Speaker 1:She has to hear you practice it a hundred times in the house.
Speaker 3:She, she has yeah, that is true, she has. You know, running, running by ideas and showing her, you know, do these graphics with cool and stuff like that. So she's a process, she's in part of the process and actually, right where she will cast her is also part of the process.
Speaker 3:Right that as well, because I also send it to him, believe it or not. I send it to him before I give it, you know, just to get his feedback. And hey, what do you think about this? You know, you think this argument is strong. How do you think that I can, you know, strengthen it a little bit? So you know, I, I do, I do make sure that I do that. And then also, whenever you see my lectures, every time that you see it it's it's pretty much a new lecture, because I love the Q&A portion for this. Yeah, if someone asks a question and I don't know how to answer it, what I say is I'm gonna include that in the you know I'm the next presentation, or I'm gonna do some more research on that so that every time that the brothers or anybody seeing this Presentation again, you know they're, they're kind of getting some new information that's been added on. So that's, it's kind of like a living document, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, always changing and growing as you get more involvement in it. Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the idea with the symposium. We talked before the show a little bit, danny, you and I that this, this idea of this symposium, we, we, we want to do four of them a year.
Speaker 1:In. Just in a perfect world, we could just go around right in a different districts.
Speaker 2:You know, and and this is, we're in 23, so we can, you know, do it here and then maybe next quarter, put it together and go to another district and and then another one, and another one, and build a team, you know, of educators that can go around and and really just kind of get the whole state charged up yeah, you know to to to educate themselves. You know, that's. I think that's really all we're asking, you know, hey, hey, educate, stop, get turn off the Netflix for for a little while, and and put down the phone and educate yourself a little bit. And and I guarantee anybody who's listening, who, when you think of education, you think of, you know, the public school system, sitting in a, in an air-conditioned classroom, suffocating, being, you know, told all these kind of things you don't want to do.
Speaker 2:That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the free flow of ideas and concepts. You know that you can educate yourself into free yourself from ignorance. This, the seven liberal arts and Sciences. The word liberal there means liberating from Ignorance. That's what is this, though. Those seven arts and sciences will liberate the common man from ignorance, and that's that's what we're talking about. When, when Mason's talk about education masonic education we're talking about you educating yourself to a point where Ignorance is not found in your conduct or in your thought process.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so to piggyback off of that, I mean, aren't we charged with doing that when we go through the follow-up after? Absolutely told that we have to take on, you know, a university education. We have to study the liberal arts, we have to engage with education. You know when you're going. When you go through the, enter the premises, they agree that the. The charge literally tells you you have now joined a fraternity where you can have an exchange of information with these brothers right.
Speaker 3:You know. So education from the get-go is is at the core of a free masonry. You know one thing I yeah, I might, I might be teasing it a little bit because I I go into a little bit more in-depth in the presentation, but you know when, when you're made an entered apprentice, we know that when you're going to construct an edifice, you, you, you have to place the cornerstone in the northeast corner, right, and where are you in the middle of? You're in the middle, you're in between the north, which is a place of darkness, and you're in, you're at the other side, you have the east, which is a place of light. So you are literally in between darkness and light. You know vice and virtue, you know Ignorance and and enlightenment. You know. So you, you're constantly Be rated with bettering yourself, that ancient axiom of know-thyself. You know, and learning from from the beginning, we're, we're taught that that's what we have to aspire to, to get to. You know. So I 100% agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an exciting time for us. Well, for me, I'm out of the east and all these obligations I've had, so I can go a little bit more bananas on some of the things I really we like bananas doing yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not like I don't enjoy being in the leadership role, but I really don't enjoy being in the leadership. It's something you do Because you feel like called to do it and you want to prove that you can get this done and hopefully set an example and show you can do it the right way and all these you know positive things, but I did way too much this year. But we're looking at next year we're doing a lot more education. Right hopefully more masonics and posiums ourselves speaking publicly. The podcast getting out a broader audience.
Speaker 1:We're going to DC With the bill of acilis and the grandmasters will be at the Potomac installation and the tomb of the unknown soldier Lee Reeth laying will be getting as many people as we can yeah viewed, so that people can learn what's going on there and maybe, maybe even participate in the coming years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's um, that's that's what this show started off as and it's what what it's gonna it's gonna always be about is getting the, the, the mason, who's who's sitting in Lodge to get more involved, to get more involved in the craft, to understand the craft, understand your degrees, understand what it is that you went through, why you went through it, understand what you believe, why you believe it, and and go out into the world and whatever, like I said, whatever religious background you're from. Me I'm a, I'm a reformed Christian, you know. And then we have people who you know hold to Buddhism. We have people hold a different you know, different types of religious studies and stuff doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:You can take the foundation that you can learn here Through education and you can better yourself and your community through it. You know, by by having that grass. I know I'm beating this horse to death, but I, uh, I just feel so, I just feel absolutely passionate about it. You know, being um, the education, education, it's all about Educate yourself, man, well, educate. If you're not educating yourself, you're doomed. Then you should be educating someone else because you've already done the work and and, anyways, I'm gonna get off that horse.
Speaker 1:What else? What else we got? I actually would like to, if you don't mind, uh, probe our guest a little bit. Go Excellent. So I'm curious how you got into the fraternity. I'm always curious to find out how these giants that I meet in the fraternity started out. What was your initial calling?
Speaker 3:My, my great grandfather from from my mother's side, was a freemason in spain and I had heard about him being a freemason while I was growing up. My grandmother didn't have any of his regalia or his ring or anything regarding his masonic uh journey. And Around my 20s, I mean I got initiated, if I'm not mistaken, when I was 22, around Maybe like 21. I I just went on google and I looked up Masonic lodge nearby and the first one that came up was hibiscus, lodge number 275. At that time we were meeting in coral gables and I I went in, I visited my lodge. We always asked prospective candidates that before you ask for a petition, visit at least four times. Why? Because you want to make sure that, uh, you, you like the brotherhood, you know that the identity and the character of this lodge fits best with your character, you know, because if you're interested in maybe another lodge that might be interested in other aspects of premacery, that's totally cool.
Speaker 3:Why would we want to deprive you from that? And from the moment that I visited Hibiscus I just fell in love with. You know the identity of the lodge and I wanted to be a part of it, and that's pretty much how I joined. You know, it was because I had heard about my great grandfather being a Mason in Spain, but obviously that generation was very secretive, you know. So my grandmother didn't really know much about what he did in terms of being active as a lodge member. She just knew that, you know, this day was dedicated to the lodge and he was gonna go. So it was pretty much because of a family relationship.
Speaker 1:And you got into the line pretty early on, right, you must have joined, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I got raised and then I became a junior steward, and then from junior steward I became junior warden, and then that's how I ended up as master.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the ritual work really wasn't difficult for me because I also have a theater background. I did drama when I was in high school, I was in plays, I wrote plays, so I was very active in that and that obviously helped me with having to give back my proficiency and memory work and stuff like that. So it was fairly simple for me and then I just like go right into it. You know I wanted to help out with as many things as I could, especially given my interests, you know, and that's what I've had, the pleasure, you know, and I'm eternally grateful to be able to continue helping out, you know, in these areas of free Masonry, you know.
Speaker 1:It's pretty magnificent when you see somebody who's clearly in the right place at the right time in their life and in the society and their environment, and that's definitely you. I have to say you obviously have gotten other. You've gotten involved in Scottish Rite. Are you also in the York Rite or Grotto or in any other?
Speaker 3:pendant parties. I'm in the Scottish Rite, I'm in the Grotto. I'm actually gonna go through the Royal Arch Degree now, on November 20th, and I am a State Advisor for DMALE.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm very happy to be a part of that. And listen, I always my lodge always always jokes about this. When I joined free Masonry, I had blue hair, green hair, I had weird earrings and stuff like that, and it was so awesome for the lodge to just to be able to overlook my craziness and just say, hey, you're a member, now you got what I'm saying. So this is something that I always, because I even have some friends that are a member. They wanna become members. They live in other states and they say, well, I don't know if they'll like me, I don't know if they'll accept me, and it's like, listen, the brotherhood doesn't care because it's all that that it's the content of your character, that's what's gonna define you, so you shouldn't have to worry about that.
Speaker 3:So we always the brothers from my lodge always joke. They're like I kinda like you better when you had blue hair or when you had green hair.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, it's more interesting to look at? Yeah, for sure, but when you have a crown on your head, that hair color doesn't matter, does it?
Speaker 2:I'd be happy with any color hair.
Speaker 1:Well, that's interesting that you said you write screenplays and you write stories. So we created a new group at the shrine here at Sahib Shrine Thread and a few other guys called the Three Ruffians, and we're right now working on writing our own initiation ceremony where we talk about, I mean, big picture. We're taking you on a journey from the Three Ruffians, from our Master Mason story, to imagine these people surviving through time, through certain events, and kind of reforming themselves over time and becoming kind of anti-heroes in modern society.
Speaker 2:But still enjoying the fun things in life. That's right.
Speaker 1:So if you're interested, maybe we can enlist you in helping us write some of this ritual because I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called the Three Ruffians, cigar and Whiskey Unit. And it's under yeah, I know right, it's under Sarasota Saheb Shrine. We're a unit of the local shrine. So yeah, and our first committee chairman right Worshipful. I mean Worshipful.
Speaker 1:Burns over there.
Speaker 2:A little prophetic word there. I think, Anyway, he's in charge of putting together our ritual and we had a couple of concepts already kind of thrown around. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. So yeah brother, if you've got some creative juices you wanna throw our way, man, we'll get together with you and put together a. Really it's gonna be fun. The whole theme is it's kind of 1940s, so that the Three Ruffians are transformed into a kind of a 1940s gangster motif, you know and there's three of them.
Speaker 2:We'll send you our logo. We created a logo and the logo says it all. Man, yeah, it says it all. And we also have a cigar brand, a boutique cigar brand, called Three Ruffians as well. That goes along with it. So, first of the year, yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. We use it as a fundraiser tool for different lodges and stuff. They use it for fundraisers and stuff, but it doesn't make a lot of money or anything like that, but it is kind of fun.
Speaker 2:It's kind of yeah, it's gonna be a blast and we're definitely putting the chamber of reflection inside that Interesting you mentioned that.
Speaker 1:Why don't we?
Speaker 2:talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 1:Chris, because we haven't talked about it.
Speaker 2:I know and I saw an email come across.
Speaker 1:You saw it, okay, yeah, yeah, what's up with that man? I've been corresponding with our grand secretary about trying to find out what all would be involved in crafting legislation to bring the chamber of reflection back to the state of Florida. You've got my attention, yeah, and so I have gotten some guidance from him, as well as some information on what they've tried to do in the past and why it didn't work.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because apparently people have tried to bring the chamber of reflection back.
Speaker 2:It's been gone a long time, see. I thought this was a recent thing, but it's been. They took it out a long, long time ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a long time ago, apparently back when we had the Masonic political party and there was that whole controversy with a guy that went missing and they blamed the Mason.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah, at that time the Morgan affair the Morgan affair. Yes, the Morgan, that's it.
Speaker 1:yeah, literally the Morgan affair is the reason they pulled the plug on the chamber of reflection in the United States, and the coffin too, yeah. And so, but as of like the 90s, it seems like a lot of American jurisdictions are really trying to bring it back because it's so powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think it's an important step in your journey and we can't talk about what it is on the air, obviously, but yeah, I guess we can, because it's not Florida work. You mean currently? Yeah, currently, all right, well, explain a little bit about what the chamber of reflection is.
Speaker 3:That's actually something that I reference in my lecture on Stoicism.
Speaker 1:Oh great, oh awesome, yeah wait.
Speaker 3:So I do discuss that, I do discuss that and I do it via we're introducing the master Mason degree to the site on the Hourglass, which are also present, which are also present in the chamber of reflection. So, that's how I kind of open the conversation to that.
Speaker 1:It's like it's meant it's supposed to be in a cave-like setting, and there's so many different symbolic meanings to this. My favorite one is that you're in this dark room where it's just you with your thoughts and you're forced to answer a few questions that make you reflect, and it's symbolic of being in the womb before being born, which is exactly tying into your journey in the fraternity. Right yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the chamber of reflection is used in the Scottish right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the York right, I think In the Scottish right. It's definitely the York right in the final degree, which is pretty amazing, and the Scottish right it's in the 14th degree. Is that right? Yeah, somewhere around there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's a lot. Again, you have the skull, you have the sight, you have a lot of different alchemical, a lot of different alchemical symbols and things, and it's kind of meant to you reflect on your mortality obviously. You reflect on yourself and other things, so I think there's also a mirror from not mistaking the sides.
Speaker 1:Yes, so one of our past masters is from Puerto Rico, worshipful Stephen Garcia Morales, and he was just visiting there. So he sent us pictures from their actual chamber of reflection that they use in their ritual work, and he was telling me stories of how he went through it. He actually questioned in his mind if he was in the right place.
Speaker 1:It was such heavy stuff that he didn't want to think about at that moment and he said, that feeling of not being sure if he's up to the task of even becoming a mason has stuck with them his whole Masonic career.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I think it's an important step in the process. We're missing.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, in this country we don't die, in this country we pass away. And the chamber of reflection is going to bring home Marcus Aurelius' quibb Memento More.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Remember, you have to die. You're not going to pass away, You're going to die. Death is going to take you. What are you going to do with the life that you have today? What are you going to do with it? Because you are. It's a one for one ratio. Everyone's going to make it. There's no way around it. It's coming. So I just think it's such a powerful thing and as masons we're supposed to face truth Head on. Don't go around it, Don't face it, and this is the ultimate of facing. I just think it's so powerful man it needs to be reinstituted into the EA degree.
Speaker 1:Working on it. We're working on it Now. Getting back to you, warshful, you're not escaping our clutches, that's right. So, if I'm not mistaken, you are working your way through the proficiency cards and then attempt to get a gold card. Is this correct?
Speaker 3:I am, I am. I'm actually working on the follow craft lecture right now.
Speaker 1:Is that your first lecture?
Speaker 3:That's my first lecture that I'm working through I would like to get my gold card just because I want to be able to help my lodge in that way to be able to provide the lectures.
Speaker 1:It really is a huge help to the lodge. And you learn a lot more about Freemasonry as you're finding out, I'm sure, really having to memorize these lectures, you become much more well educated on the topic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because I think that there's a lot, and this is something that I always tell the membership to Open your blue book. There's a lot of great information there. There's even a lot of things that I'm citing in my lectures. There's a lot of stuff there, and when you're listening to the lectures, it's providing a lot of information and a lot of things that are going to put certain things into perspective for you. I had attended a Master Mason degree once earlier this year and one of the brother that was giving the lecture. He said something and I was like, oh my god, this is something that I'm developing a lecture on and he just said it right now in the lecture. So it's really cool to be able to get engaged in that way. Do you know some? Hopefully and I'm starting with the fellowcraft degree, because the fellowcraft degree is arguably my favorite degree- yeah, it's everyone's favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is. We just did one Tuesday and what always amazes me is it gets the lowest turn out of all the degrees. We do a lot of degrees in our lodge and the fellow crafts are always the least well attended. And it blows my mind because everyone loves the lecture and the degree, so why don't they come? It blows my mind.
Speaker 3:It's funny because worshipful Jamie Paul Lamb has actually talked about this. He wrote a book, pretty much to be a supplemental material for the fellowcraft degree. It's called Approaching the Middle Chamber. So check it out if you're interested. And what he talks about is you're initiated and then you're passed, and then it's almost like you get to a point where it's like all right, now you've got to be a master.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And then you get raised and then that's it. So it's almost like you spend the least amount of time during the fellowcraft degree, when it has so much information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. That's exactly right.
Speaker 3:It's a university class that's there. You're introduced to so many topics and so many things are so important, not only in our lives but in the Masonic journey that you know it's mind-boggling that we don't spend a lot of time on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense, because the newness of the EA it's exciting, it's new, it's you know, and you're there for a while, at least three months probably, right, you're there practicing. And then you're raised, master Mason on the other end, which is the completion of all your work. But the fellow craft is kind of that pathway between the two. Yeah, so it doesn't get, you're right.
Speaker 1:People are like oh, I got a step here to get over there. Yeah, right, right, so they just step through it.
Speaker 2:And they miss, in my opinion, the most, the richest of all of them. And it's the only one that I can right now. It's the only one that I can recite, you know, question and answer all the way, from beginning to end.
Speaker 1:The catechism.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I have this mental block on the EA. It was so hard for me to do.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's new. That's why, yeah, but I choked so badly that it scarred me for life.
Speaker 2:So after I'm done with a little therapy I'll probably attempt it. But we committed, a group of us committed, under the tutelage of Worshipful Burns this year to get all the way to our gold card in a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to treat it like a regular catechism class. So we'll have like five or six Master Masons and we'll meet once a week and we'll go through this whole thing together. Yeah, all the proficiency cards, one at a time.
Speaker 2:It's going to be awesome. I think maybe we'll do a little bit of interviewing along the way and just kind of like track some progress and have fun with it. You know, and get everybody. Everybody should be doing this we have. Well, there are two main people in our district that do lectures, but there's probably a dozen, half a dozen men that we can rely on who regularly do it, literally two, One of them sitting right across from me and the other would be.
Speaker 1:Worshipful Hart. Well, I'm.
Speaker 2:Shout out I'm going to be sitting right now somewhere up in Georgia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he sent me pictures yesterday. He actually got one. He's already got a deer. He's got some meat for us. He's been good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't have to be hunters. We know one, so it's exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a good time for me because I got my gold card and my brown card in my first years of Master Mason and I didn't get to use it much to be honest with you, there were other guys that are known and I didn't.
Speaker 1:I'm not good at promoting myself. Not a lot of people to this day know that I even have a gold card or a brown card. But now you know, as you work up the line and people get to know you and you meet more people. Now it's a perfect time for me because it's just all in my mind. You know, I'm doing the degree work, I'm doing the ritual work, the opening, closing of my lodge, all the time. So it's easy for me, whereas we have a Worshipful Barry Hart, for example, who he's busy doing other stuff. He's not in the line, he's not doing ritual work every day Like I am.
Speaker 1:So I imagine it's probably harder for after many years to keep it fresh in your mind. I feel actually lucky.
Speaker 3:Now, chris, let me ask you something, because I think this is so cool. You know, and obviously you're very open about this, you've talked, obviously you've mentioned that you know you kind of have a love hate relationship with public speaking. So talk me through that thought process of you. Know, I have a love hate with public speaking, but I have a gold card.
Speaker 2:So you know where. That's kind of like you are now in luxury, you know? Yeah, that's a great observation.
Speaker 1:This started when, before I became a Mason, I had a horrible fear of flying, like I couldn't get on a plane. I felt terrified of being in this box that I had no control over.
Speaker 3:And I just knew it was going down the whole time.
Speaker 1:So I didn't ride in a plane until I was almost 30 for the first time, and the experience was so traumatizing. I had to visit some family who were sick and I had to take drugs to keep me from having a heart attack in the flight and I saw I can't go through life this way. These phobias are killing me. And I felt the same way about public speaking. It was from my childhood. If I had to give a presentation in school, I would skip school. I just wouldn't go that day.
Speaker 1:I dropped out my senior year and didn't finish high school because I just couldn't do the public speaking they expected of me and I had to go back and get my GEDs and adults. So this is literally something that's impacted me my whole life.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I decided at one point I'm going to have to face this fear of flying. So I went to learn how to fly. I went to a private pilot's license no kidding, and the study of aerodynamics and learning about how a plane stays in the sky and how all this works really alleviated a lot of my anxiety about flying.
Speaker 2:Not facts and knowledge. Imagine that.
Speaker 1:I'm diving into facing my fear. Help me and I can fly now. I don't like flying overseas, but I'll do it if I have to. It's one of those things that's a phobia. So it's never going to leave me, but I've got it to a point where I can manage it.
Speaker 1:So getting into Freemasonry and getting tricked into Freemasonry and actually being forced to do some public speaking, I was like wait, you know I did it in phases. To be honest with you, when I did my first give back, I had to take my glasses off so that I couldn't see anybody looking at me, and that's how I dealt with it initially. Then they asked me to be a committeeman where I had to give formal speeches on my own, and, if I'm going to be honest with you, I would have some drinks before I went to Lodge, and that was the only way I could get myself to get up in front of people and do it. And so it's been a really hard process for me to overcome that fear.
Speaker 1:But Freemasonry and learning the lectures is a way for me to learn. I watch a lot of YouTube videos. When I watch people like you speak, I'm watching a lot, man. Like I said, I'm watching how you breathe, how you carry yourself, what you're doing with your hands, because I need to learn this stuff. It helps me alleviate my anxiety if I have something to work on, and so learning the lectures has been the greatest gift I've gotten out of Freemasonry, because I am public speaking a lot.
Speaker 1:As you know because you said that you had a background in acting. If you can inject yourself into something and make it personal, it's a lot easier for me. I can show you who I am in some way through me doing a lecture.
Speaker 3:Does that make sense? It's going to be my way, my inflection, my way of delivering.
Speaker 1:It is the way I think about it and you know, when you watch other people give lectures, like you said, you heard a brother giving something and it sparked something in your mind because you were working on something. A lot of times I hear other guys give lectures and the inflection they use and the things that they enhance make me think about it in a different way than how I learned it, because I'm thinking of that, the way that I want to project that to somebody when I'm giving it. So I'm just fascinated by how much of yourself you put into something can give it different meaning, as you deliver it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely and I'm really sure. Yeah, it helps me to focus on those kinds of things instead of the fact that those eyeballs are looking at me.
Speaker 2:So would you consider that your journey through to the gold card helped you overcome this fear?
Speaker 1:of public speaking. The work you did it's a gift I've gotten from Freemasonry is to be freed from this paralyzing fear.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, and I've seen it. I've seen it. When you and I first started doing this, I remember you telling me that you it's not gone.
Speaker 1:We just did a presentation and you're like I saw it, I was degrading.
Speaker 3:The longer we were in front of people, the worse it got for me.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I was getting more fidgety, and then my arms were crossed and then I was facing my body in a different direction.
Speaker 3:It's just really uncomfortable for me, and it's a struggle still. Well, let me tell you it's not easy because actually, public speaking is the number one fear in the world. It really is. I haven't read that. I haven't read that.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't ring. I don't get that. I've been a public speaker since I was five years old man. I can't shut up. I love it. I absolutely love it and I think it's just pure. It's just that I think I was just born that way. I was not trained in it necessarily.
Speaker 1:I think self-confidence is a big factor.
Speaker 2:Self-confidence helps or self-delusion, however you want it to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I take it honestly, because I'm very critical on myself, I think that's one of the hang-ups that people have about public speaking is they don't want to look stupid, they want to be judged.
Speaker 2:I think a public speaker has a responsibility to bring good content and to do his homework.
Speaker 2:Daniel, I know one of the reasons why I'm like that. The lecture you did up in at Hillsboro, I mean I couldn't get my eyes or ears off it because it was so well laid out, because you did the homework. I've seen speakers, man, where they were, just I just want to poke my own eye out, man, because it was just so hard to watch, because they weren't prepared, they were just their own material and it was really ego-driven or they weren't engaging me. They were really. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:They're just raping your brain.
Speaker 2:Take this information and put it in there. We're going to file that under a chrissism.
Speaker 1:That's another famous chrissism raping your brain. I watched a guy I timed him on my watch. He did the fellowcraft lecture from start to finish in 15 minutes. What Can you imagine that's?
Speaker 2:like jogging.
Speaker 1:You're not even distinguishing words anymore when they're coming at you that fast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're powering through it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like your speed.
Speaker 3:The thing is, this is something like that. It sucks because we constantly have to remind ourselves these brothers are going through this for the first time.
Speaker 2:We can do it.
Speaker 3:I've seen that this has happened. It recently happened out in California. I think there was a brother that's been in the craft for 60 years. What they did was they did another enteroprentis degree for him to be able to do his obligation. That's something cool.
Speaker 2:I'd never seen that before. Oh man, what a great idea.
Speaker 3:We're only going through this one time. You have to make sure that, as part of the degree team and as the lecturer, you are giving the best that you can possibly give so that you can make an impression on this brother To want to learn from it, to want to become involved and engaged. If you're not doing that, then I think that's going to open up a count of worms.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that we should all keep in our minds at every level in free masonry is, when someone comes in, it's all new to them, their first dinner at the lodge. You better make a good impression. Their first day to meeting. Maybe you should celebrate them. You need to remember that all of these things are that person's first and they're going to make a lasting impression. Yep, absolutely Everything. Everything, including the lecture and the degree work and the first opening they hear, the first closing after the degree.
Speaker 3:Even prospective candidates, if they visit your lodge. Obviously we're all members of our lodges, we're all best friends, but you want to make sure that you're welcoming to these prospective candidates Because they're coming in, they might feel vulnerable.
Speaker 3:they don't know anybody they might not know a lot about free masonry, they don't want to ask questions. We want to make sure that we're as welcoming as we can possibly be, because if we make a bad impression, not only are we making a bad impression, but this is the bigger issue we are the vantage point through which they are experiencing free masonry. If I make a bad impression on somebody, then they're going to say man, they let Danny become a free mason.
Speaker 1:Oh man, then Mason might not be what I've heard exactly.
Speaker 3:That's a big deal because we are all pretty much ambassadors in that way.
Speaker 1:Even in the world, like if you're wearing a Masonic ring and somebody sees it. You are the entire fraternity to them. It's so true.
Speaker 2:What do you say? How you carry?
Speaker 1:yourself. You're representing hundreds of thousands of people globally.
Speaker 2:Right, I was riding my motorcycle yesterday to various adult beverage locations. I wear one of my vests. The particular vest I was wearing has a gigantic embroidered symbol for a shrine motor core on it. It's got Masonic emblems all over it. As I'm riding along, I have to remember that that's what people are going to see, that it's really important that when I'm riding I'm courteous and I'm professional in my riding. It's motor core. For goodness sakes, I'm supposed to be one of the best motorcycle riders in town to ride like an idiot.
Speaker 1:Competition rider Right.
Speaker 2:It matters. I have a really nice Masonic baseball cap that I like and it's very understated. It has an embroidered symbol on it. I'm always having to remind myself when I'm wearing that darn thing at the checkout line or wherever you're at man You've got to, but it's important, it matters. As I'm growing up for the last 35 years being in church and as a Christian, I've always been very aware of the fact that you have to carry yourself in a certain way. We don't ever want to be looked upon as hypocrites in any of our endeavors. Masonry teaches us to be kind and courteous and professional to others and to care about other people above ourselves. It's just. I don't know where I got this particular rabbit trail, but I like it.
Speaker 3:I like it. I just add on to that because it's really cool that you brought that up, I think. On the flip side, I think that we also are going to have those moments where we're hypocrites and the important thing, is to learn from it. Why? Because one thing that I constantly remind myself is that the Ruffians were brothers too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:They weren't just random people that just stepped into this area and whatever what ended up happening, but they were brothers too. That's another thing, especially with socialism, that I have taught myself is that I am liable to make these mistakes. I'm not going to make the mistakes, but if I do, I need to learn from it and I need to be a better person. I think that that's what, ultimately, freemasonry reminds us to reflect on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's self-awareness, being aware of, that's right. That's exactly right, man yeah.
Speaker 1:I like to surround myself with people like that, Even in our fraternity let's be honest, a lot of people aren't trying to improve themselves. They're missing the point, but they're still representing the fraternity. But that doesn't mean I have to associate that closely with them. I try to keep my circle very tightly focused on people who are trying to improve themselves. That doesn't mean you're perfect. Like you said, we're all going to make mistakes. We have to accept that. We're all going to make mistakes. We have to give each other a break a little bit, especially if you see that they're trying to learn from a mistake that they made. Let's celebrate that, that's right.
Speaker 1:Let's celebrate it together. It'll get easier and easier to do that, I think, as we go.
Speaker 2:That's right. Speaking of not making mistakes, let's not make the mistake of overstaying our welcome with our listeners.
Speaker 1:We've been into this for an hour and a half it's been a great conversation.
Speaker 2:It always goes by too quick. I am absolutely blessed, brother, that you decided to join us. It's been a great conversation. Anything you want to share with us before we head out of here? Specifically, specifically.
Speaker 1:You do a lot of lectures. You talk a lot about Freemasonry. You talk a lot about things related to Freemasonry, but you're now talking to potentially Freemasons from around the world. Who listens to this podcast? It would be great to hear your ideas on the future of the fraternity and how you deal with negativity and challenges. Those are the kind of things that people really get from. The podcast is learning from guests.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:How they deal with challenges and what they see for the future.
Speaker 3:I think that any negativity will ultimately go away if you don't succumb to it and if you don't pay any attention to it. Ultimately, I think that the goal is, especially when it comes to just speaking on Masonic education, educating ourselves and educating the outside world, outside of the fraternity. I think that it's super cool that a lot of lodges now are opening themselves up to wanting to have lectures, whether it be myself or other Masonic lectures. I think that it's super cool. I think that it's something that we should continue to promote Absolutely because, as we know by the digest, every lodging is to have a Masonic education committed. That's right. I think that the worst full master is, even when he's installed, he vows to educate the craft, to promote education within his lodge.
Speaker 3:I think that it's super cool that we're seeing a rise in lodges and even other Masonic bodies opening up to wanting to have lectures. As I tell brothers all the time, if I'm available and I am able to go, I will visit your lodge and I'll give a lecture. It just needs to align with me being available, but I'm happy to do it because this is what I personally enjoy from pre-Masonry and it's what I want to continue doing, as long as brothers continue to be engaged. Aside from that, I just want to once again it's three things I once again want to wish Brother Fred a happy, belated birthday.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother.
Speaker 3:I hope that you have a great weekend with that. I want to say thank you so much for allowing me to be on the podcast. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fan and I'm very grateful that you would want to have this conversation with me. I really appreciate it. And finally, just January 13th, I want to see everybody at this lodge.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's going to be a great time. You know we have some amazing speakers and I think that this is going to get the ball rolling on a great event that's going to happen quarterly. We know it's going to happen. Negative things are going to come, but we're just going to brush that off and we're going to keep on powering through. So once again, thank you. Thank you, guys, so much for letting me be here.
Speaker 2:It's been our pleasure, brother, absolutely, and we will be having you back again. Chris, what do you got?
Speaker 1:I like what you said. Let's just ignore the negative, okay.
Speaker 2:I can get down. That's good advice. Don't feed into it. Let's not feed into it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker 2:Right on.
Speaker 1:I can't hear you, fred, you can't hear me. Oh, I was ignoring the negative. Oh, that was pretty good, very good brother.
Speaker 2:Well, there's the sound of the music, and if you've listened to this point of the show, then you are our hero. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to. On the Level with Fred and Chris, it is our privilege to be here week after week talking about the ancient and honorable craft that we love and that we're passionate about. We hope you're passionate about it too. Take what you've learned today and go back to your lodge and make a difference, and we will see you again next time.