Impact Masters Podcast
We focus on the tech ecosystem by creating and disseminating knowledge. We tell authentic stories, acknowledging and preserving history, embracing civilization, and encouraging technology and innovation. In all this, we point out the impact and the actionable points. At Impact Masters we are disrupting the status quo: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
Subscribe to our channel and podcast:
https://linktr.ee/impactmasters
Michael Kimathi
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkimathi/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/m_k_global
Follow us :
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ImpactMastersco
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/impact-masters-inc/
Explore Our Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/@IMPACTMASTERSMEDIA/podcasts
#impactmasters #entrepreneurs #africa #podcast #entreprenurjourney
Impact Masters Podcast
#32 - Jean Salvi and Jim Tare
Ever wondered how an early fascination with coding can evolve into a career in AI? Join Michael Kimathi, as he uncovers the journeys of Jean Salvi from Bento Africa and Jim Tare from Consumer Tech, who did just that—transforming their early tech curiosities into industry-leading expertise. Their stories are a testament to the power of adaptability and community in shaping the future of Rwanda's tech landscape. We'll trace their steps from the classroom to the forefront of innovation, offering inspiration and insight into the diverse paths that lead to success in the tech world.
It's not just about code and algorithms; it's about the people and experiences that drive the technology forward. As we converse with our guests, we explore the stark contrasts in educational backgrounds, the impact of government initiatives on raising educational standards, and the importance of nurturing talent through community engagement. These personal accounts reveal how resilience and a relentless pursuit of knowledge are key ingredients for thriving in this dynamic industry. We'll also address the unique challenges and opportunities that come with integrating business acumen with software expertise—a combination that's proving essential for the next wave of tech entrepreneurs.
This episode goes beyond individual success stories, looking at the broader strokes of innovation and the importance of building robust communities for sustained growth. We'll examine how component-based solutions like KYC systems are revolutionizing FinTech in Africa and the critical role of events in solidifying tech communities. Whether you're a budding software engineer, a business strategist, or a tech enthusiast, this episode promises a wealth of knowledge, experience, and strategies for professional growth. So, join us on this enlightening journey through Rwanda's tech ecosystem, where passion meets innovation, and community fosters success.
Subscribe to our channel and podcast:
https://linktr.ee/impactmasters
Michael Kimathi
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkimathi/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/m_k_global
Follow us :
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ImpactMastersco
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/impact-masters-inc/
Explore Our Podcast Video:
https://www.youtube.com/@IMPACTMASTERSMEDIA/podcasts
Jean Salvi:
X: https://twitter.com/salviosage
LinkeIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-salvi/
Jim Ntare:
X: https://twitter.com/JimNtare
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimntare/
#impactmasters #entrepreneurs #africa #podcast #entreprenurjourney
Subscribe and show some love. Ubuntu.
Thank you, thank you. Thank you for joining us this wonderful day. It's a blessed day. Yes, we have Jean Salvi in the house. One and only Today we are hosting Rwanda Tech ecosystem. I'm joined by two developers who are doing amazing stuff. I want to talk about tech ecosystem in Rwanda. It's truly my call to you from Impact Masters Podcasts. This podcast is brought to you by Africa's Talking Podcasts. We're telling African stories, recording their history and ensuring that we are covering the base in terms of what is happening in Africa when it comes to tech ecosystem. And I'm your host, michael Kemadhi. Call me MK Anytime, and we are, you know. You're telling developer stories. You're also covering what is happening in Africa, and today we're in Rwanda Kigali, or Kigali, rwanda and we're joined by amazing, two amazing gurus of 20 years working for different companies. Here we have Salvi from Bento Africa and Jim Tare from Consumer Tech. Welcome, guys, how are you Doing good? Yeah, yeah, you're good.
Speaker 1:How are you, salvi? I'm good. We can't hear you. How are you, salvi? I'm doing good. I'm doing good, you're good, I'm good. Welcome at our Africa's Talking Podcast and Impact Masters Podcasts. Today we are going to cover what is happening in Rwanda and just to give you context, guys, I think I met not I think actually I met Salvi back in 2018 as a student at Twitch University, was that?
Speaker 3:It was Aukarwanda. Sorry, it's Aukarwanda, aukarwanda.
Speaker 1:So I normally do developer outreach. It's part of my papas in life where I reach out to different developers through the communities that we run. That is then was Nairobi, Nairobi Community, which is now Africa Ruby Community, and we try to share Ruby and Ruby on Rails, things to do with open source, agile, with the developers, and Salvi was part of that call. Which year were you then?
Speaker 3:Like at university.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I was in second year.
Speaker 1:Second year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right now is a back and straight up back in engineers four years down the line and, to be honest, it's guy like Salvi who came me doing what I do.
Speaker 1:I've been doing this for the last 12 years. I know people like Microsoft, people like Andela, people like Mastercard, people like Amazon, people like AWS have come to Africa and they don't realize how much the tech leaders do. And it's amazing to know that Jen or Salvi took over me and now is a GDG leader, which is amazing again, because he saw the potential of what it means to share your skills, to share your knowledge, and is organizing communities around Kigali and, I think, rwanda in general. And it's fascinating to know that this guy, who actually by then didn't know what to do with what he is learning he was also struggling to figure out which language should I go with, what do I do? How do I solve a problem. Because that day, I think, we talked about Ruby Framework, open Source and Agile and maybe we'll be sharing how that helped you. But before that, guys, when we have a podcast here, we try to tell our story, and you can't tell a story of a man without knowing who they are.
Speaker 1:So, who are you guys?
Speaker 4:I don't know me and your names and you are, so where are you born? How was?
Speaker 1:that you know the experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Okay, I will start. I'm Salvi. I'm a self-engineer at Eintor. I was born and raised in Rwanda, part of Rwanda.
Speaker 1:Northern is close to Uganda, right? Yeah, close to Uganda.
Speaker 3:I normally started this self-engineering web development coding where I was at high school. I didn't know much like you know, like I think you can do like property. You know like you can write programs to print stars and you feel like a hero. You know Most of people don't get like the logic into those kind of stuff it's crazy when you're in secondary school and you can still figure it out, so they call you genius. That's how I started.
Speaker 1:That's how I got in class one In P1.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, it's P4, I get.
Speaker 1:But P4, you were writing code.
Speaker 3:It's secondary 4. That is.
Speaker 1:O level 4, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, o, level 4. And yeah, from there, you know. Which language were you using then? C++, c++.
Speaker 1:You could write and compile and trans Next level kind of stuff. Yes, of course you are genius, no doubt.
Speaker 3:But back then you can do math, economics and computer science.
Speaker 1:That's what I did in secondary school, which you know we are jumping all over. Let's start chronologically. You were born in northern part of Rwanda.
Speaker 3:You went to school where I was born and raised in northern part of Rwanda.
Speaker 1:Which part specifically?
Speaker 3:No, but northern part you know like close to Uganda, rudindo district.
Speaker 1:Or Rudindo district.
Speaker 3:So it was a tough drive back then. There is not much of computer thing I remember myself. I have this one post. I posted it on Facebook you may remember.
Speaker 1:So there was how old are you? Because now, if you are posting on Facebook, that is, it must be 2004 and no.
Speaker 3:I joined Facebook in 2011. 11.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3:And back then I posted like 2012. I posted like imagine programming a program to program a program. Yes. That was AI. Yes. But I didn't know what the program is. But I saw a funny image and I was like this is fancy. You know, like I just reposted and if I refraigd, right now I'm in AI field- I do AI stuff and I'm like you know, maybe this is was like Aryan talking to me and something like that.
Speaker 1:So you used to converse with aliens. And what did they say to you? You must be a programmer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess, so which?
Speaker 1:language do they speak now that you're talking about aliens?
Speaker 3:You know like whenever you have a thought, that means you're talking to aliens.
Speaker 1:Not God.
Speaker 3:Whatever you can call it, maybe alien or superpower. Superpower yeah but yeah, something, you don't understand how to talk, but those that conversation like chief, check this out.
Speaker 1:you know this is going to be the next big thing. It's been curious enough Learn this stuff. You know what I'm imagining. Yeah, kind of approach. Anyway, I'm just kidding. So you start now getting interested in AI, like how stuff works? Did you start now writing NLP's? You? Know, I mean NLP's and machine learning algorithms. How was that?
Speaker 3:Back then I didn't have like a computer at home. Okay. I didn't have anything digital. Yeah. It's just me. Back then I liked like drawing stuff, so all of my notebook including some drawing instead of, like you know, cross notes. That was crazy, but you know, like after joining the computer science course, yeah yeah, S4. And.
Speaker 3:I guess I that's where I started like getting into tech, interested in programming. That was interesting and I guess we're like you know, like you, there is something like you, you can do something and you feel like you know. This is very much rewarding. Like the way this dopamine hits work, you know, like you know, you can celebrate the whole day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you celebrate?
Speaker 3:Just get excited you know, like, feel like you know, feel like an Aryan. Yes, you love aliens, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that was in. You said in high school, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in high school.
Speaker 1:And which high school was this?
Speaker 3:That was St Maria Del Aide.
Speaker 1:Was it still in the northern part?
Speaker 3:No, it's southern parts. Okay, okay, yeah, oh nice Nice.
Speaker 1:You know the school.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you also go to school there?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:But yes, tell us about yourself and then we'll go back.
Speaker 2:I was raised in Kigali.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you are a boy, you know, a town boy.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I was raised here all my life and and yeah, I actually started software engineering in 2016. Okay, I used to double with it in high school, but it wasn't on the cars because we didn't necessarily have a laptop. We had like computer labs in school, but by then there weren't as many resources to learn or self-teach yourself. But in high school I also did computer science as a field, so I had an understanding and you know, when you're at home there's that one laptop in the house, you just get like one chance to look at it. But I didn't necessarily do anything with any programming, anything related to programming or software engineering. Then I officially started learning and self-teaching myself because I went to business school. I started self-teaching myself in 2016, my first year in uni, and then it went on from there. Even after I finished uni, I just continued in that career.
Speaker 1:So I have a business degree, but so your background is not in software engineering or computer science or electrical Background? No, Ah, interesting.
Speaker 2:Especially in my bachelor's degree or anything.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean very interesting stuff. So you guys have just run over through everything within seconds. Yeah, no, not really. And I understand why you are doing that Because we are configured to undervalue our processes in history right. So I would like to know which school did you go? All right, how was that experience? Yeah, did you have good moments, but all can you remember? Even in your primary school, right, high school, did you even go with girls? Did you write letters? What did you learn? Which subject did you take?
Speaker 2:You know it be chronological as possible, All right, all right. So I went to my primary school. It's a really known school here. It's called Kigali Parents. Is it a private school? It's a private school.
Speaker 1:I went to all private schools.
Speaker 2:All private schools, yes, all private schools, so Kigali Parents very strict school.
Speaker 1:OK, is it missionary or?
Speaker 2:something. No, it's just very strict.
Speaker 1:When you say very strict, do you get stroke? What?
Speaker 3:makes you use.
Speaker 1:Strokes, oh strokes.
Speaker 2:And it was. We used to get like three homeworks a night.
Speaker 1:Every day.
Speaker 2:Every single day and they didn't even write like the math, especially for the math. They didn't even have you write. They didn't write it on the chalkboard so that you copy down the questions. They used to give you papers. They give you like a 70 question math paper. They print it.
Speaker 1:That's for a primary school kid.
Speaker 2:So we had to take it home and present it the next day.
Speaker 1:Every single day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the math homework was like probably like two or three times a week. Ok. But you know, come without doing all those questions and I used to come without doing all of them most often. That not. So yeah, it was a very, can I say, it sharpened you in a way that it was militant of sorts.
Speaker 1:I felt like it was. It was a military school.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily, but like the way we the kind of the discipline the discipline was top level.
Speaker 1:But then you were thinking it's punishment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for us, that's the whole point, for us who is us?
Speaker 1:You and your classmates, Me and my colleagues Like oh my God, we can't wait. At one point did you think of quitting.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't an option. Then you know you have to go to school. It was just part of life. You get used to it, ok.
Speaker 1:And you need a private school. Where are you going anyway?
Speaker 2:So no, I mean, it's one of the best schools. It was very hard to. First of all, it was very competitive in itself. Does it still exist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, still there, still, quite there.
Speaker 2:So yeah. So in high school I went to another private school. It's called Riviera High.
Speaker 1:School oh, it's called really good and went to another private school. So do you get invited or how does it go?
Speaker 2:No, your parents, my parents could afford.
Speaker 1:OK, yes.
Speaker 2:OK, so I went to Riviera High School, but then it was quite also top, top school and it was a new list of life. It weren't anything like Keynes or anything. We had the swimming pool.
Speaker 1:Life was good. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:Life was good. I'm so envious.
Speaker 1:Cool kids yeah. But you said your name is.
Speaker 3:Jim Naray.
Speaker 1:Jim Naray. Yeah, I think you didn't say when you started but, yeah, Jim, you had a privilege life.
Speaker 2:Well, I would say yeah, yeah and it's OK. There's nothing wrong with that. You know your parents. Your parents struggle to kind of give you an OK life, so yeah, I'm not complain.
Speaker 1:The guy is so modest, he's not An OK life. Hey, listen, there are levels because there are people who are above you and whatever.
Speaker 2:So it's a no human thing.
Speaker 1:It will never be.
Speaker 2:April was like the poorest kid in that school. Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's now. You can imagine if Sal was in that school. You be like guys, sponsor me we used to have.
Speaker 2:We used to have, like students who are sponsored, oh.
Speaker 1:OK, they had scholarship, they had scholarship. But they were smart. Yes, the school used to give like a few scholars. Yes, I think that's noble, given that maybe people are paying top dollar yeah. The guys to come there, maybe set aside.
Speaker 2:We're probably like by then it was probably, like, probably like, maybe top five schools that pay top dollar, yeah, in the country, then OK, yeah, so how many people were? Sponsored by class Maybe maybe like two out of how many. In a class we used to be like 25. Ok, that's fair.
Speaker 1:So that's one stream. We yeah or total streams is 25.
Speaker 2:No, how many streams did you have? Two streams so there are like 50 students.
Speaker 1:Yes, 50 students Of them 25, maybe For them yeah. Four out of 50. Yeah, it's fair enough. Yeah, and these the guys who go scholarship Did they progress? Did they catch up?
Speaker 2:Obviously they were really good. Obviously they. You know, some people come in with a mission, oh OK. You know, kind of like they come on a mission of sorts.
Speaker 1:What kind of mission?
Speaker 2:You know you come in and you're not on the same wavelength. In a sense there's a certain level of seriousness that you have More than the other, and obviously you take a little bit some of these things a bit too serious and then you obviously doing well in class and stuff. But I think, like a lot of people even, I think there are a lot of well-off kids who are really smart because they've had good education ever since, ever since they were young kids.
Speaker 1:Through private school or just public school?
Speaker 2:No, private school.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, public school here is still quite good.
Speaker 1:I hear like his excellency Paul Kagame was like he made public school so good that even there was no good business for private school.
Speaker 2:I would say that, but still, sometimes, when you, when you like parent, sometimes private school is more of like their amenities, right? But in terms of like the standards. You'll find that lab well-equipped labs are public schools. Yes. Well-equipped labs. Some of these facilities. Yeah. They are more likely to get them in public schools, but they are obviously top, top, private schools, yeah, so the best ones Like the good private schools. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That are that obviously offer a certain level of of education that a normal public school wouldn't listen, and access to some of the different things Access to scholarships. Yeah. Access to, like people who come in and just talk to about different things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, different curriculums sometimes Cambridge and some foreign other curriculums yeah, so I mean, that's a very good context, given that that you know and I think this is impressive that you know the government itself is taking initiative to sure, to make sure that you know they have the best amenities, so that people don't just go to private school because of amenities are impressive. So, salvi, when you are there, what do you think? Yeah, you're like, I want to be your chief one day.
Speaker 3:I would say when I grow up. But I'm already grown up, yeah.
Speaker 1:So for you it was more of like public school all the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was a public school, but for universities, private, I remember. Like you know, there is a gap here in between, like university and high school. You know, so for me, I didn't take that?
Speaker 1:How is that long gap?
Speaker 2:It's usually it was a year.
Speaker 3:Oh, you stay. It was like a whole year.
Speaker 1:Oh, there was a time. Now it's no longer. It's no longer A few months and then you go to university yes.
Speaker 1:And I think even in Kenya it's the same way. When I graduated I had to stay for three years at home, I think, to be there. If you passed the exam, you were invited like get a letter and all that because you apply, like when you do your KCSC. You say I want to join the if I get because you know your performance. You say I want to do law, maybe I want to do computer science, I do software engineering, I want to do maybe a Greek tech, I don't know. Whatever it is, you just fill out option one, option two, option three.
Speaker 1:Now, once the result come out they used to come out, I think, in December, if I'm not wrong. I'm not sure because right now they are staying inside. It's a bit quite some time Then you wait for two years and you report in September. So remember, we finish around in November, say I finished in 2007. Then you wait for two years. So those two years now it's your choice. So for me, I did driving. You know what else? I worked a bit. I taught other kids how to do stuff, I taught English since some technical school. I did a lot of community work. So you guys, one year, what did you do?
Speaker 3:Like for me. I didn't take that one year gap just to private university.
Speaker 1:Just directly.
Speaker 3:I was excited about software engineering. You know like I was so interested in coding. But in the university you know like I did whole year about coding anything.
Speaker 1:You are learning theory, not even computer science.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's software engineering, but specifically you spend a whole year starting like crazy courses like Bible, english.
Speaker 1:You guys, you joined the theology university. What are you talking about? Which university was this again?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's for the 20s.
Speaker 1:Oh, so they put in some religious teachings. It's good, by the way, for your coding. Coding is hard. You need some I don't want to say religious connection, but you need some spiritual and nourishment to be able to operate in that.
Speaker 1:Honestly, this is not a joke, I'm not pulling your leg so and you know you have coded right. There's some time that things don't work. It's like artistic work you write a song and then there are no more lines to write. Okay, this is a weird example. Even one of you has been an artist. Neither have I been an artist, but I used to write a lot of lyrics when I was in school and this funny because it was not targeted to be produced I was trying to get lines for ladies.
Speaker 1:You know how you go and you have a pickup line and so I could listen to you know artists and then figure out oh so when you say this, and then there's rhyme, and then you learn this in literature so you can connect both. So these are, these are what we are learning in literature. There's learning grammar, there's learning English, but that's a story for another day. So there's a time that I'll sit there and give my own story, but never mind. So what I was trying to point out, to put across that artistic work or scientific stuff. Sometime you hit the wall, not because you are, you're not knowledgeable, but because sometime you get mind block when you can't think further than that, and here you can confirm this. Most of the engineers and developers are more mind alert during at night, for obvious reasons it's more quiet, it's more peaceful and there are less distractions. Is that true by the? You yeah.
Speaker 1:You guys have been coding really nice at night and you know you are engineers. You know, these things work at night.
Speaker 2:I could do any time, any time, but you prefer. You prefer at night, especially when you have like pressing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Pressing task.
Speaker 1:Task.
Speaker 2:You want to like really go power through something like something has been frustrated. There was a time like something good frustrate me. I think there was a time when I was still like in Andeala. Something would frustrate me and then I would like oh, so you're in Andeala.
Speaker 1:I wanted to know how do you transition from business degree to. So it's Andeala magic, some of it. Anyway, we'll get there. So, salvi, so you joined this Advertisement University, right? Yeah, you're doing religion. And then you're like what did I get myself into?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I spent a whole year trying to figure out this programming. It's like I was frustrated. But right away they started like some courses which are engineering related. So it wasn't that bad, but I guess it was frustrating One year, like everyone have to pass that year and I feel like if they sometimes remove those kind of crazy courses, that would hurt people. Just like to point out that because it was so frustrating to me and you have to pass them Someone who's listening, yeah you have to pass them.
Speaker 3:If you don't, you're not passing at all, whoever in.
Speaker 2:Awuka is listening. Yeah, who is that he's trying to tell some people in Awuka to kind of slow down on those courses?
Speaker 1:The religious ones? The religious ones, yeah. Or the spiritual ones?
Speaker 1:The Bible courses, yeah, yeah, I mean, curriculum is meant to be reviewed once in a while and I think this is a good feedback and I mean, if you look at it, depends what you want to learn.
Speaker 1:But I think also and I can't say this enough so people should be spiritually nourished, especially when they are, you know they have a task to build solutions, because remember the solution of building the impact of people, and you have seen people like Google saying don't be evil, don't just say that for the sake of being cool. When you are not spiritually nourished, it's really hard for you to build something that actually could be used in good way. Yeah, remember, people even write software for nuclear plants, power plants. Imagine if someone added a bug there, they can wipe out our continent or whatever those nucleus can do. So these things might not make sense because maybe you are building software that scale, but with time you start now and I'm not saying even this from school point of view as a person, you should be able to be spiritually nourished and that's my own opinion. Right, you can take it or leave it.
Speaker 3:So second year, that's when you started coding- yeah, that's when I started some courses on coding but, back then I was already in community.
Speaker 1:Which community had you joined? That's when we met, actually right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we met, and there was other communities like what is it called Forlup Africa?
Speaker 1:Forlup. Forlup actually was started by, in consortium with Afrika Stocking and that chief who was greeting her. You can see him on the camera, but Gram is here. Shout out to Gram. They are the ones who are doing forlup. So that's when now you started even seeing people who are already in the space, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, back then it was Remy Muhide, his random guy here. Yeah and that's already from Uganda, I think, in.
Speaker 1:Gorduna Marriac in.
Speaker 3:Solomon.
Speaker 1:Solomon.
Speaker 3:Itumba. Itumba huh yeah yeah, that was like when I started.
Speaker 1:They used to come all the way to Gigan.
Speaker 3:Oh, nice yeah for Forlup yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. And where did Forlup go? Because I just joined AT when Forlup was, I don't know. Does it still exist?
Speaker 1:I think it does yeah but not as vibrant as it was, and I think this is something we need to figure out. Because I'm so passionate about communities, because I've seen the impact communities can bring and I've been saying this more than enough time People like Google should take care of communities, because communities are all about providing resources. They are volunteers and they will do the magic for you. They will build up a pipeline for you, right, and actually it doesn't have to be, because I sponsored this event and that's our, our, our our approach as Africa stocking, and also because I just joined Africa stocking last year. Building communities for over 12 years has shown me one thing when I build a pipeline right now, you don't work for me, right, you work for another company. But if I didn't, maybe share what I shared I don't know maybe Forlup would have shared, but either way, the company that has hired you, I don't know. You can tell us if this is true? If you just had your degree, do you think you'd be a backend engineer at that company? Most probably.
Speaker 3:They don't even ask those kind of.
Speaker 1:You understand. But the thing is, you join a community, you learn restuff, you build restuff and over time you are ready. By the time you graduate you are ready to be hired. So the company listening out there, the company that will hear this it's really worth it to invest in communities because what I see over time is that a company comes up, they have this KPI to fill or something they want to launch. They go hard on community and once they launch it, they slow down or they just don't must have anymore. A good example is GitHub.
Speaker 1:I knew GitHub as the most proponent for communities. They didn't care if you were doing developer. They could give you maybe a few dollars, a few t-shirts to buy pits and drinks and also to give other developers in there. I got on the bus bus. They sent out engineers all the way from San Francisco to Nairobi or whatever to come and share that knowledge. And guess what? That actually impacted the whole ecosystem as it is Right now after our big boy Microsoft. I know offense, I'll say the way it is. After they joined Microsoft, oh, that changed. They started doing things to do with the e-visit and I was like now we have to put diversity in the picture to even even apply for diversity. Microsoft, if you are listening, please, that's not the way you build a pipeline Right now. I know they are hiring. They have been hiring in Africa, especially Nairobi need to change that culture.
Speaker 1:You need to be intentional with developers and they don't have to work for you. That's the way I think about this. That said, you joined Forlope and then how long.
Speaker 3:When I met you, forlope wasn't like a community where you come in and come in again. But that's where you get to meet people, you get to understand people's stories you get inspired and you start to be active online, like joining community on Twitter, people who are meant to guide you in developer journey. That's where I started, I guess in 2018, I started to be somehow serious into community stuff, started to look into global community, not just random community. I think that's shaped my journey because back then that's when I joined Google Developer Student Crab.
Speaker 3:I was at my school. I knew about it. I had no clue about it as well, but I was online, I was searching some stuff and I found it like someone tweeted it, and I was like, okay, let me apply. So after applying, I got accepted and I tried to go to Ghana. And this is great I get to meet Nigerian people, nigerian like Nigerian, nigerian energy.
Speaker 1:I like their energy.
Speaker 3:What is that energy?
Speaker 1:like you know people, when they hear you, maybe it's out there saying Nigeria, what is that?
Speaker 3:Like Nigerian. There is a way, like whenever you are around Nigerian, you can see people keep talking their mind is always working. You can see it but, for random. Most of the time they are quiet.
Speaker 1:They are reserved people thinking serious problems, solving serious problems with their mind. But I also understand that we had a conversation earlier with the Quelli and that's also the 1994 genocide played a key role, or now even Rwandans perceive things and it's called trauma. So you guys are like second generation after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first one.
Speaker 1:were you born then? Most probably not. So you guys, actually you have a bigger role to play and you can see what is excellence that Paul Kagame is trying to do. And I'm saying this with all the love and because I know you guys are leaders in your space that don't take these things for granted. You need peace.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying this because peace is the only solution, but I'm saying you need peace for you to drive as a country. You need to carry that momentum and when I see you in 2018, I see you right now as a back-end engineer I'm like my man, this is it, so that's it. I'm not good at advising people, so I want to go on with that. I understand that's why you guys are reserved, and it's understandable and it's not a bad thing anyway. That's why we have people who are talkative, people who are at work, people who are just silent, people who are thinking about solutions, because even when you come to Kenya by the, we are not, and actually I would say there was a time that no, this analogy of like. You know Nigerians are doing this.
Speaker 1:you know they are big in this you know, because if they do something small, they will be so loud and I'll go into Nigeria maybe in case a few engineers to talk to, or maybe have a conversation, and I'll understand even more. Maybe. Right now I'm coming from England and encourage developers and engineers to be more intentional. So if you want to build a fintech, sit down and write code. Talking about it won't write any code. Shouting about it won't solve any problem. But if you said sit down and write code, that is what will speak on your behalf. Guess what? Ten years down the line, it's working.
Speaker 1:As you know, it's something that most people are appreciating. You don't need to make a lot of noise around it. The only thing, maybe you need to sit down and record that story. How was that journey? Like you, chief, I want to know. We met in 2018. You now understand there is Ruby framework, ruby on Rails, there is Ruby on the backend, there is Agile, there is open source. How do you perceive that? There is entrepreneurship. I think even you shared about entrepreneurship. How do you process all that?
Speaker 3:The good thing about community is it's not like school. School, they taught you for you to do exam. It's more like you have to understand things or just have to know things they are teaching you about, but the communities they are showing you around, they are showing you ways. They are showing you anything. Maybe you need to become a good developer or anything you want to become, and it's up to you to pick out what you want to do, who you want to for, who is your model?
Speaker 3:which path are you going to take? So that's the good thing about community. I guess even more communities. All the universities may take the same approach.
Speaker 3:You are just teaching a person things they don't even want to learn, but showing them you can do this. You can even do this and this and this Right after that. People are good at figuring out stuff by their own. So if you figure out stuff by your own, I'm going to learn maybe JavaScript and you start learning it right away. If you learn it by yourself, you're not going to be competing with those people who don't. You have to learn it. You have to learn it after the disassignment. It's like community, it's something you know driving the African tech ecosystem, because we don't have like MIT or some other bigger institution to teach you about programming and to the core level. So this community, I think, is making more impact other than any other institution or education institution around Africa can do. Because, if I say it like for me, I've done some communities like developer, student, crab. I saw people from zero to like soft engineer somewhere. Like you come, you're asking me why should I write code?
Speaker 3:You haven't even read the first line of code, you know, and in two years I can see you like you're at Irembo, you're, you know, like at Tenderra. You are doing some great jobs and like there isn't even a guy I mentored back at Tenderra, the guy is working remote. That's made me like proud. If, like I can see someone who guided himself through community and he can become, like, you know, like, a bigger person, you can, you can think of it's even like you know, like it's a for me, it's, you know, like fulfilling for me. Yeah, if I reflect on it, I'm like maybe that's what I meant to be doing. You know, like, while I I still exist.
Speaker 3:You know, see people, you know like making impact, you know like and you're part of it and you're like okay, maybe every person needs to be a key to someone to get to somewhere. Yeah. Like he needs to be that kind of chain to you know like yeah helping each other and work together actually. Yeah. As African as the whole world. Yeah, if I say African, maybe I exclude the other people, but you know like as like the whole you know like human being. Yes. It's meant to be connected somehow, and you know like to be a chain of help and help and help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you are saying community. What they do is bring some of the gaps that exist in figuring out solutions, because programming is supposed to be hard. You just want to. You need to understand the underlying concept but also apply them, and to some extent community helps in both, as opposed to school, because school you just have one lecturer will come and share slides or maybe teach you two or three way of solving solutions, and that's it. And even the reason why people even don't learn more, according to my experience through lecture, is that is that to find most people are more almost schools are more in approach of passing exam as opposed to understanding the underlying concept, which is solving problems.
Speaker 1:And the more we start approaching it in a way that, yes, of course you need to be tested on what you have learned and get satisfied, you need also to solve problems, real life problems, and even teaching itself can be in that approach. How are we solving problems? Right? So in actual sense, that's how I see it, but I cannot insist enough on what you're saying, that communities play a key role in that. Chief, you don't know anything about community. You are the community of swimmers.
Speaker 2:Actually you know what's funny In UNI? Yes. Me and my friends. Yes. Started a community and we were we're just teaching software engineering? Yeah, no, we're teaching just basics of web development, and some of us yeah. And I'll tell you one of one of our community members. Yeah. Went on to be in the first court.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. Yes.
Speaker 2:And right now he's working remotely. Yeah. Yeah, the first time he wrote a single line of code. I was. I was on top, I was like like I was, I was, I was looking at what he was doing. Yeah, it was a form of. It was a form of like building that community around you and then just motivating each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's how we've been able to learn and for you by this, very important, because your background is not in computing or software engineering, so you finish your, your. Did you start learning this while in school?
Speaker 2:Well, immediately as soon as I started my degree First year, first year.
Speaker 1:So you joined In Boston, then you joined Andela or I started.
Speaker 2:I started Code Academy. I started using Code Academy or Code Academy online online. Open for you, no, it was free.
Speaker 1:But it was free yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, it was like they had some free. They had some free courses and I started there and then we used to like bootleg some courses, some Udemy courses.
Speaker 1:Chiefs if you hear about like piracy. Let's call it yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how we used to bootleg, but these days I don't, I don't. Yeah. Udemy has. Yeah, udemy has has. Sort of like, these days I pay, yeah, but I'll tell you most of it I had like a few, I had like big files, yeah, about hard drive of like different courses and some of the different things I did. Yeah. But I think the one thing that was effective, I think there's this one book I went through.
Speaker 1:A copy or a soft copy?
Speaker 2:It was a soft copy but I printed it out. Do?
Speaker 1:you remember the name of the book.
Speaker 2:Let me check. It's a Python book, it's a look it up and Python for dummies Something.
Speaker 6:No, it's not Python for dummies, it's like a hundred projects, maybe it's like a hundred Python projects, okay, something like that.
Speaker 2:So they were like projects, they were like simple projects, so each page sort of like hard projects, each chapter had like projects. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you could build them step by step and see how it works, and you basically from the first chapter.
Speaker 2:it interacts the basics and you just understand, even get get comfortable with the command line. Yeah, build command line apps and go on and start.
Speaker 1:And this is in first year, yeah. This is in first year and you're doing business and I'm doing business, so was it like strategic? I choose a course that I can pass while asleep, or also do these other things.
Speaker 2:No, I just obviously. I just knew that. I just knew that I will do tech, but then I just got an opportunity to do like a business.
Speaker 1:But who made that call? Like you should do that call because?
Speaker 2:because I, before I, went to uni. I had done a few projects as an entrepreneur. Okay. I had done like two years actually as an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1:And that was in high school.
Speaker 2:Actually after high school.
Speaker 1:So you stayed for two years at all, okay.
Speaker 2:Two years to two to three years. Yeah. And doing. Then I had a few projects, I had an event, I had, I started a design agency. Ah.
Speaker 1:Chief yeah, after this you are going for drinks. I started the design agency.
Speaker 2:And what happened is and then through those, I learned a lot because I was working with, with people who are well in their careers, right.
Speaker 1:They used to give you giggle, you are a player.
Speaker 2:I used to. I was just, I was. I think I presented myself a bit more mature Then it just it felt like they were my peers. Okay, we started off well and they used to just have like they just bring me on as a little brother. But I used to really work hard. Yeah. Just like that strong work ethic. Yeah. So I basically understood and I that I really am thankful for that experience because it just kind of gave me a certain purpose. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, when you're looking at people well in their careers, you just get inspired about some of what they go what and be that. Yes. Okay, and one of one of my good friends, even up to now very good at design.
Speaker 1:The best I think I've seen. Can you talk to him before I leave?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I can, I can put you in contact yeah.
Speaker 1:Very, very good the best, because I think also design plays a key role in software engineering. Right, because writing code alone doesn't present something that humans can consume Right. And you also back end. Yeah, no, I've posted, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I looked at what he was doing and how excellent he was at what he was doing and I was like I can't just do, I can't just be excellent at making PowerPoints.
Speaker 1:You are good at making PowerPoints and presenting those ideas.
Speaker 2:I can't just be excellent at about doing PowerPoints and you know talking, you know I could. I could talk.
Speaker 1:I can you know you can present, I can present. You are business man, so yeah, so I felt like.
Speaker 2:I felt like software engineering was a hard, was a tangible skill. Yeah. That I, that I felt like I could do. Yeah. Because even in high school I got introduced to it because I did a computer science. Yeah. In my level. Yes. So I felt like. I felt like I knew that I could do it. Yeah. But I still wanted to to to still understand business and the inner workings of business. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, and generally, that's my whole, that's my whole career, that's what I want to dedicate my career. It's yeah. It's as much as I could. I must as much the best. I could be the best software engineer, but I also want to be able to bridge business and software engineering. Yes. Yeah, so that's that's, that's how I, that's that's how I am here now.
Speaker 1:So did you graduate, or with your? Business yes. Yeah, but while doing coding.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think business helped you understand, like how to package solutions to, to be palatable to the users Most definitely.
Speaker 2:Okay, you see, and that's one thing I realized about your typical software engineer. Yes. Your typical software engineer is an engineer.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's, it Is an engineer. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:That means that they they see a task, they execute it.
Speaker 1:end of story Now is it a task or solution or problem? You provide a solution.
Speaker 2:Listen. Yeah, it's a problem. You, you, you have like a list of tickets to work on.
Speaker 3:You have a list of tickets to work on yes, yeah Tickets, yeah Tickets.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You'll have a list of tickets to work on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you complete them. Yeah, you're done. Yes, and that's that's. That's the end of it. Yeah, as a software engineer, but like when you're talking about solutions, yes, when you're building a solution. Yeah. There's so much you have to consider. Like and obviously you have to consider the, the people you're doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you will be using whatever what kind of user are we talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, where, where, where is the technology now? Is that? Are there any technologies that look like what you want to do? Yeah, are there technologies that could replace what you want to do? Are there technologies that could? They do not necessarily have to be the same. Yeah. But they they might have the same function essentially. Yeah. And it could, let's say, run the risk of having your, your solution, becoming relevant before it's even yes even practical.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's a certain level of practicality that business shows you design thinking, thinking about like the person you're creating it for. Yes. And I think that's just something that I that's on my side. Yeah. That's going to continue. Grow, yeah, and that's how I plan to position myself. Yeah, mainly because, as much as I've done business, I can also go on the other side and and sit down and write, do, do write.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right code and do those tickets? Yeah.
Speaker 2:But there's an underlying understanding, yeah, of why is this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, why is this?
Speaker 2:feature. Why is this important? And and this is that added level of understanding, just it gives. I feel like it gives you the best of my opinion. I feel it gives you a nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it makes a lot of sense because at the end of the day, after you build the product, you have to present it in one way or the other. Yes, people will use it, people will invest it or even people will test it before it's fully fledged. So that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So solving the problem. For you it was more like community. You're still doing community, even after getting a job, and what she's saying is that also as much as or not maybe typical community. Like you did, he was also inspired by without knowing, by the guys who maybe, who are peers and it could be telling, by them. Do you feel also being in a community and finding someone who can do something? And it gives you some energy to also try and know that it's doable and you have confidence. If I'm stuck, I can reach out to so and so and ask if this is the right way to do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like for me. Back in Ghana I met a guy it's Robert John talking about machine learning. Yeah. And I was like this, machine learning things. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was pretty much advanced for me, you know like some people can talk that like the way machine can recognize Kenya. Rwanda was like that's impossible, yeah. Yeah, so I went on and community again, and there is this Facebook developer cycle is happening and offering some scholarship. Yeah, you know the city scholarship for deep learning. There was a challenge. I did it and I passed and they gave me a scholarship and I did deep learning genius. No degree from there.
Speaker 1:So you also took none of the grade. I have like five oh chief, which one and which one?
Speaker 3:deep learning algorithm, data structure, ai artificial intelligence, deep reinforcement. Running Right now I think I'm doing this safe driving car.
Speaker 1:And all of them you pass.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have to pass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for you to do another, no, it's like the nano degrees they are pretty hard. Yeah, I know I have checked them out, so it's quite impressive to have done five. Yeah, so what I'm trying to do is the secret of passing before we are left here wondering should I take nano degree?
Speaker 3:Secret of passing nano degrees For me. I do the city ones yeah, so they are really hard. Yeah. But you know like you have to keep trying because there is like kind of the city community as well. Yeah. They have like a community where you can post a problem and people help you solve it. Yeah. Also, if you submit, like some sort of projects in the nano degrees, they provide the feedback for you. Yes.
Speaker 3:You understand it's like community way of solving problems. It's not like you are going to add extra and they give you zero and you are already. Your approach is, I think, it works for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But for university one doesn't really work.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. So you'd rather take these nano degrees?
Speaker 3:Yeah, even more. But what do you?
Speaker 1:think they get it right in terms of how they teach, in terms of the curriculum? What do you think they get right that universities can learn from that?
Speaker 3:Yeah For nano degrees. I think they focus on making you understanding the core concept of things. Yeah. And then they make sure they challenge you to the project which are more exciting and so you build something at the same time? Yeah. And from there you have a community to help you.
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 3:But for universities, like in verse, yeah. Yeah. For university, like they present you some slides, they give you some books written by someone and someone. Yeah, you have to, kind of like, pass the exam. Yeah. And the exam most likely is like pass the paper or something like that, which is something which is not innovative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not exactly yeah, and it's not also up to date.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not up to date. Yeah, so it's really challenging for universities. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean that makes a lot of sense. So in that case, and I think also that the engineers who design nano degrees Most of them they have a background in in the lecturers or they have written these books that we learn for programming, so they understand the concepts and how it's changing, and that's why you find most of the books that we read, even from O'Reilly, are revised.
Speaker 1:There are a couple of editions, and the reason why they do that is because they understand technology changes very fast. So at least every year you find Python has been upgraded, or if there is Python 3 that has come out, there will be books and materials to show you what has changed, why it has changed, with accompanying projects. So do you think lecturers are way underpaid to be motivated enough to do all this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, most of them I think they are way underpaid and most of them I think they are not really underpaid because, like even them, they know, like they don't have those much skills to share with the students. Yeah. So saying underpaid is like somehow upgrading their skills. So I think the model is like if the university can get the best people to teach and pay them enough, that would be enough for students.
Speaker 1:So it starts with the best people, yeah, the best people.
Speaker 3:Not just like dragging someone to teach me big data.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they go to first class.
Speaker 3:And he's presenting me an empire from three quad points, something like that. Yeah, but if you go to Udacity, someone who is teaching an empire is the one who created it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But now you see, you have to be realistic. These others can all teach all universities Right. Practically most probably they do this at their home country or where they reside Right. So generally it will make sense. Also if you if I don't want to talk about other places but African universities, and I'm saying this with a lot of love and humility I have seen lecturers who have written a lot of good research but they don't follow it. How to make it palatable, even in other institutions? Because even when you study a classic example of Kigali and the development that has happened in 22 years, do you know? That's a whole book that people can learn and even build better Irembo.
Speaker 1:I think maybe Irembo is the best solution, but maybe someone can write a book how to build Irembo version two, maybe with AI, maybe with the mobile integration. Have you used it? Ah, here is. If you are really good in engineering, that's where you get hired Is that, yeah, but have you used Irembo as a solution like? No, I'm not sure, maybe indirectly. Have you looked at the website?
Speaker 2:No, that's pretty cool. Yes, it's pretty cool, it's good right, it's a pretty good solution, I think. I think that's something to think about.
Speaker 1:No, I'm saying this is just a simple example, like how can we even develop? Because a book is taking a use case and then building on it to show what they have implemented well and what can be improved, because it's software engineering, nothing is perfect and complete and also given that technology is changing very fast, so maybe you find things that you find in cool right now. 10 years, 20 years, if they don't change, they will be obsolete, and we have seen a lot of solutions become obsolete. Big billion companies just die because they don't catch up to technology. It doesn't mean those people are not smart, it just means maybe there was some breakdown somewhere in terms of decision making or how people perceive things, and it just dies.
Speaker 1:So, we can learn from that as Africans and try to adopt. And if we have young minds like you thinking that way, then it's easy, even when you're working, to enact change from that level. You understand what I'm saying Because the reason why I see it, not only in Africa but even in a developed world, is that they depend so much on the I don't want to sound stereotypical but on the older guys who maybe started the company. But remember even these guys over time they are OK, so they don't need to think ahead of time. A good example would be Microsoft. You see, they took Satya Nandela's mindset and they said chief guide us. Microsoft is changing over time. The Microsoft people knew in 2000s it's actually more advanced.
Speaker 1:There have been radical changes. There have been acquisitions. That actually has helped them. I don't know, but I have my own personal opinion on that. So and I wish maybe, Satya, when I come to US or maybe when you come to Africa, I'm best in Nairobi we can sit down and have a conversation and even validate some of the things and decisions that are made across, Because at the end of the day, we all have to win. It doesn't mean because US is winning Africa country, you know, Europe is winning, you know or even one country in Africa.
Speaker 3:You understand it's not a zero sum game. Exactly.
Speaker 1:You have put it well. So that's my mindset, because with this now you can say I'm learning computer science, but I'm using some of the Rembo's use case to understand. You can work to Rembo's office and do a research and report on that research or build a better solution and pitch it back to Rembo. Right, and that's why Silicon Valley is always evolving. If you don't know, so most of the schools, like Stanford, berkeley, they are on some of these startups and they see some of the solution and some of them. They can work to those offices and ask questions and get answers.
Speaker 1:So that's just me giving my opinion, but also, again, government to invests, because with research comes investment. So, given that most of the learning institution don't have much of revenue like proper companies, I think the thing that could help us is to also invest in research that I'm sure you did a project before you graduated. You did a project before you graduated and most of those projects are hand changing by the time you're getting first class. Of course, professors are sat down and this one could be a business. So how are we using some of those projects? There's masters, there's PhDs and that will. Now we build our learning ecosystem plus our day to day solutions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think I was talking about it with a friend. I think he said something profound and I felt like it's related to what you were saying. He said, like a lot of people concentrate on trying to build our whole solution for the whole, because there are components of, let's say, in the FinTech space. Obviously, in banking or whatever. There's so many components you don't have to build a whole. Maybe, let's say, if you're trying to take out some banks, you don't have to hold a whole core banking system. You can build a component. I think we talked about one of those issues because they talked about this company called Mono and they do KYC. Yes, now, kyc is a very important thing for the bank it's know your customer, right but then most of the time in our current industry currently, this is a problem.
Speaker 2:If you're listening and you want to build a solution, you can build a solution around KYC, if maybe Mono does not come or whatever. So the whole point is KYC means know your customer. Now Each bank creates a profile, builds a profile on a customer. But why does each bank have to build a profile on you when you're one person? If, let's say, you have a bank in equity and you have a bank in KCB and you have a bank account in, let's say, another bank, why do you have to have different profiles in all those different banks? Why couldn't there be a unified system that, as a customer, you can allow banks to get access to your information and then maybe you immediately eligible for, let's say, loans and some of these different things because of your track record, because KYC a bank decides on giving you a loan because of the profile you currently have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the history of it. And that's applicable to not just only customers, but small medium enterprises which are which are notoriously bad at getting loans, especially in our current system.
Speaker 2:They do not, they are not paid attention to, especially SMEs in terms of loans. Very few get loans and a lot of them, I think, struggle especially with liquidity and maybe delayed payments and maybe they need quick cash and some of these different. So that's just one component, but on the other side is sometimes. Maybe it feels like me or someone else on the road we don't know these problems, we don't have access to some of these different, some of these information, and I think maybe that's where community could also help.
Speaker 2:If these companies or these institutions, especially because I know there are a lot of problems and issues that could be solved from a technological point of view in the government in the government space, in the public space and in the private sector those two, I think the people in charge should talk about some of these problems in spaces that would allow innovation to happen, should talk about them but also, as you said, find ways to sponsor them fund them hackathons, some of these different things, and then maybe that's how innovation grows through communities.
Speaker 1:True, true, and I think you've brought very by the way. You have spoken like a full-stuck engineer.
Speaker 1:Component example and all that that's a good one, but just to put things into context, I think things should be more practical and continuously tested so that you know we don't lose the edge over time when the technology changes. We have to date right, and if one thing breaks, as you're saying, not everything that breaks right. But, chief, how did you like transition to job and still continue doing community? Well, and the reason why I'm asking these are I have a few friends who, when they get a job, that's what's like community was there, what means to an end, so that's the end of them. Never see them until they're jobless or something happened or they need to change their job.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for me the one point is like community is where you find like minded people. You can challenge you and you can envy those people who give you like passion to do something. And if you're in community also like sharing, is you don't much when you share? If I'm there presenting neural networks, sometimes I feel like I don't understand most of it. But you know like as I keep sharing it, I get the names of neural networks.
Speaker 3:Because people keep asking me some challenging questions and you know like it's time for me to reflect on them and go do some research on it. For me, community has been like something helped me, learning from a learning journey, also keeping in mind that there is someone out there who maybe what community is doing as well For me, because I was trapped from community. That's where I started my long journey. That's where I get, like you know, a good path to pass through. That's why I meet like people who really guided me through the journey. That's where I'm still meeting people who are very important to me. So I think community people downgrade it at some point, mostly in Rwanda. But I think for me, community must be something the government must focus on, really have like a big focus on community, because there are so many people who want to share what they know for free, and if you are sharing something for free, there is no right in it. It's something like full of you know, like you're sharing something because you want to share it.
Speaker 1:That is close to your heart and you know it Maybe help someone.
Speaker 3:And it's fulfilling for some people, you know, like helping someone and you know see people getting a job or getting into the like, whatever the path they want, through community. So I think for me community must be one way of driving Africa, you know, through Silicon Valley, as you were saying. I was asking myself, you know this question. You say, like in Silicon Valley people can knock on your door asking you some sort of kind of question.
Speaker 3:But you know, like in this current university I have a feeling is like you know, they are keeping getting pressured for numbers of people graduate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more about numbers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, like most of the time I have a feeling there is no such thing as passion into what most people down in undergrads. You learn something and you're like, ok, I did this and I did this, I have a degree. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:Maybe to help me to get a master's, it will help me to get a job or something like that, but it's not something you're passionate about. But let me tell you, if you're in community, yeah, maybe you meet someone who is, you know, like what I'm saying like is take community, I was there. Is this time this difference? I was trying to drag one guy I think he's really great in podcasts. It's called Saddam Murungi. Unfortunately she didn't reply to me, but you know, like I was trying to get her to stage because I feel like she has more potential and like it's a very good thing to me, the community to share.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know like to participate in those kind of community and like get a glimpse, because at Google you see people are living in community.
Speaker 1:Yeah people you know are doing some job and they're senior engineers, some of them.
Speaker 3:Senior engineers and you know like, I feel like maybe it's one very big place she deserved there. Yeah, if she joined community share and get to know people. You know it's not a such a thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's feeling keep pressure me, for if I see potential in someone you know, yeah, if you join community, maybe they will help you figure out what it is, because most of the time you are in your head, you are doing stuff but you don't know what you are doing exactly. But if you join community, people have their way of seeing potential in you. Yes, someone can come and say, yo, let's do this, let's do this company. Yeah, they start this project. Yeah. And from there you can become Elon Musk.
Speaker 1:By the. Elon Musk is from Africa you know that right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And many more other solutions that are coming up. So it's, you know, sometimes we might be talking about these, and maybe five years from now yeah, not a profiler ending but you'll see a lot of change in now, even the company, the quality of companies that are coming from this ecosystem, and that's why I last this chief. You are doing this, you dacity code academy, right, and at what point do you now decide I'm joining Andela or am I applying to join Andela?
Speaker 2:So I joined. I applied to join Andela, I think like a few months, because I started work after uni. I started working on a startup. I started a startup, founded a startup.
Speaker 1:What was the name of the startup?
Speaker 2:It was called Fikia.
Speaker 1:Like reach out.
Speaker 3:Yes, fikia, that's what it means it means that you didn't know. I don't know, so I did.
Speaker 1:At all.
Speaker 3:I know some words Like what do you know?
Speaker 1:What do you know about Swahili Jambo? Jambo is like greetings.
Speaker 3:I used to read it in Kenya. Jambo is that.
Speaker 1:You used to read it.
Speaker 3:No, the service keeps saying it, jambo. Ah, I'm reaching.
Speaker 1:Kigali, stuff like that. Oh, so you knew, these are greetings. What else do you know?
Speaker 3:Like normal Swahili people, speak in Kenya, rwanda. You know that's all, oh so, oh so. Ah, I don't know much Swahili, so Okay. I hope to get to Kenya.
Speaker 1:No, I mean you can learn Swahili. Swahili is the widely spoken language in, I think in Africa, yeah. Like, if you go down south, you speak Swahili.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're a zombie.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised. I think most of the parts of Swahili, I think even it's thought even abroad. So yeah. I think I would say conflating is a widely spoken African language and it's really good because it's easy to learn and if you're born to which Rwandese most of them are, yeah, it's easy to learn because even you guys, when you speak Rwandese, I can relate. Some of these people can speak it as you or join to us to make a sentence. I can figure out what is happening.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so please, by our means, yeah, and how did you come up with that word? By the?
Speaker 2:way. So we wanted to create so I'll just talk about the idea what we wanted to execute. So we wanted to execute a platform that enables entrepreneurs, that enables businesses to get information about industries Right. Yeah. So, as a country like Rwanda, we receive a lot of foreign investments. A lot of investors, entrepreneurs, are curious about the country. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they obviously don't have a layout of the land in terms of like opportunities, information, data on the reports and some of these different critical information about certain sectors. Yeah, I'll give you an example. Let's say the agriculture sector. Let's say you go and do something on coffee. Yeah. And let's say you want to know about coffee in the country. Yeah. It's very hard for you to go. If.
Speaker 2:I told you right now to go and understand the coffee landscape in the country or even in the region. It would be very hard for you to get that information. I agree with you.
Speaker 1:So that's it, and that's not only in Rwanda. In any ecosystem you go, it's really hard, if you're an investor, to know. So usually, yeah, where do I start?
Speaker 2:Usually we have like and which is funny because we have a lot of management consultant companies who do a lot of research and they collect a lot of information on general industries and different sectors. Yeah. So usually the World Bank funds a lot of research on that, some private institutions.
Speaker 1:KPMG, pwc, imf, all these companies, even government itself.
Speaker 2:Yes, Even government itself, and a lot of that information is public, sometimes A lot of information. It could be monetized in other ways and the whole point was to create a platform to enable, first of all, the monetization of that and telling the stories for the different sectors. So, I did that for a year but I was straight out of high school I had a little bit of sorry. Straight out of uni I had a little bit of an experience still trying to just become a professional. Just get that a few years under me.
Speaker 2:As a professional engineer I can't talk about some of the projects if I haven't worked in institutions and seen how some of these things work, and that's how I joined Andela.
Speaker 1:So this didn't work. Yeah, it didn't pan out per se.
Speaker 2:But I had raised the good amount.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? How much did you raise?
Speaker 4:It wasn't that, but by then it was like 10K, like how much 10K is good money for fresh graduate.
Speaker 1:So you applied for Andela, or how was?
Speaker 2:that, yeah, I applied. So I was encouraged by one of my friends.
Speaker 1:Which year was this?
Speaker 2:That was 2019. 2019.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something like that. So you applied, you go through the interview and then you joined as a consultant or as a student.
Speaker 2:No, as an engineer.
Speaker 1:As an engineer. Yeah, ah, okay, and we used to do full stack still yeah.
Speaker 2:In Andela you do full stack.
Speaker 1:Oh, most of the gigs were full stack.
Speaker 2:You do full stack, so you do back and front end. Okay. After that, I think.
Speaker 1:That was JS right. Yes.
Speaker 2:Node React and all that.
Speaker 1:Not Java.
Speaker 2:Not Java.
Speaker 1:Not Scala, no, it's a point I'm making here, but it's alright. Full stack is genius.
Speaker 2:So then, I think, a few months later, I joined Bank of Kigali.
Speaker 1:So how long did you stay at?
Speaker 2:Eight months or so. A joint Bank of Kigali? Yes.
Speaker 1:That is government owned right.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's owned by RSSP, which is a social security board. Okay, render Social Security Board. It's public. Private it's a public private Public partnership.
Speaker 1:Yes, public, private. They call it PPP.
Speaker 2:Yes, public private partnership, yeah so.
Speaker 1:You guys are talking business, you see, now You're boring Salvia with the business. But it's okay, don't worry, salvia, we'll go back to the tickets. We'll learn one or two things, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I've been there for two years. I was there for two years, and so you're still there.
Speaker 1:Bank of no Okay.
Speaker 2:So I left a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Why did you leave, by the way?
Speaker 2:It was two years Contract. No, I just felt like I needed to take the next step.
Speaker 1:So you're not growing there.
Speaker 2:Well, I reached a point where I felt like this is it, and I want more responsibility, so the current role.
Speaker 1:In other words, you are tired of changing color over a button.
Speaker 2:Some of the things, yes, but generally I felt like I had to take the next step and I felt like Chief is democracy.
Speaker 1:You want to sound the probiotic? Yes, Obviously. Hey, you never know. But what I'm saying is.
Speaker 4:But let's say this because I wanted to take I wanted to be a tech lead. I wanted to be a tech lead.
Speaker 2:And that was my ambition and I felt like I got an opportunity to become a tech lead in another company. Additionally, it was remote. It was remote. I wanted to just build that portfolio, continue building my career as a global software engineer, and I think that just made sense for me at that point.
Speaker 1:Why do you think building that portfolio is important for an engineer with a listening?
Speaker 2:I think if you want to work on a global scale, especially because you grow- Growing means you become a better programmer.
Speaker 2:You become a better programmer. You become a better programmer because, first of all, let alone, you're working on it with different cultures, the whole interacting of it, but generally the standards are quite different, the expectations and some of these things are quite different from what you would get on the current local market. The Rwanda ecosystem has come so far, but obviously if you work in places like Germany, you work in places like the UK and you're working in, let's say, these proper startups, these proper funded, well-funded startups.
Speaker 1:I mean you'll say that proper has to be followed by funded, Well-funded.
Speaker 2:So there's a certain level of excellence that you'll get.
Speaker 1:Not the payment.
Speaker 2:The payment is also nice. It's also nice. But you also want to test yourself on a global scale. Yes, you really do. You can't just be limited to your local area. I want to work in Kenya, I want to work in Uganda, anywhere, so you have to have that pedigree of working on different projects across the world.
Speaker 3:I want to JAPA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please.
Speaker 3:I want to JAPA.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like this guy wants to JAPA. What's that he wants to JAPA? What is JAPA E? You don't know JAPA. No, like you know, like moving abroad, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or you call it JAPA.
Speaker 3:Like it's a Nigerian style oh.
Speaker 1:You are not.
Speaker 2:Nigerian Do I look like. So yeah. Sully yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean and this is something that I've been so passionate about, it's just my personal opinion I believe, strongly believe, that we can create better continent than where we want to JAPA, and we have to be very patient. You know those guys, what you see today. They created over 100 and 100 of years, one stone at a time, and I like to use Kigali. So Kigali is not, honestly, it's way out of you know, blown up in terms of development, the aesthetics or even economically, but it's organized.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's displaying Even speeding. Kagame came up with a proper solution that actually works. Cleanliness it came up with proper solution that works. During COVID implemented methods that works. You understand, and we can learn a lot from that, and you guys are lucky to be here. You might find it a bit. You know strict and you know boring and tight, but when systems work it's easier to drive. Maybe the chief here is working out remotely. He can find value for the money is getting invested and build something that actually drives, because he knows if I build a business, the tax is clear. They are business who use my solutions and it's easy to do business and security actually is guaranteed. I was wondering why people close shops here at 10. Because you can work virtually anywhere here at any time and feel secure. Because, well, people call it police state. But I look at it on the positive side that at least you feel secure to work.
Speaker 2:You can work at night.
Speaker 1:But if you go Nairobi is my city there are some places you can go. At a certain time the lighting is not that great. Sometime you find that you're not sure if you'll be taxed by KRA, which is the revenue authority, or you'll be taxed by the policeman, or you'll be taxed by the thieves or cartels, because there are all these various gangs or organizations that you're not sure which one will take you down. Also, some of the regulations are not really entrepreneurial or developer-friendly. Like the other day they were suggesting and I think they passed it as a law that for you to work as a developer you have to be satisfied again and you have graduated. You see what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:They introduced tax if you're working remotely and it's good to pay tax because it develops the country, but you need to see where this tax is developing. So if I pay tax here in Rwanda, I know if I see a term that is well made, well lit, well painted, you know, with clear instruction and all that, I'm sure if I'm paying 20% of my tax, I see where it's going, all right. But the other places you can't say that. Even in Nigeria, here the traffic is chaotic. You spend four hours to go to the office four hours to come back and imagine a country like Nigeria where they have 100 million people. Is it 300 million? That's quite human capacity.
Speaker 1:You're staring at full blown, which is self-sustainable economy, you understand. So we just need systems to work. Number two we need also to be leaders, because tomorrow you might Kagame. Maybe it's getting old, you might be Kagame the next day. What do you learn from this so that your generation or your colleagues are not? You call it what Japa. They're not planning. Yeah, that's that. They're not planning to do that and you know that has also created a problem in Nigeria. They can't get visas to most of the places.
Speaker 1:And you can't blame them, because these are young, innovative, angry young guys who want to go out there and do stuff. But, that's a side I think I made a point. Chief, you've been in the ecosystem at least for four years since I knew you. You're now a proper backend engineer. What do you think we can do more to grow this one and take ecosystem?
Speaker 3:Yeah, for the ecosystem, we need more community. Yeah. We need more apprenticeship programs. Yeah. If I say apprenticeship, like you can get a, a, um, a, um soft engineering degree. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you still don't know how to code. True true, that's really challenging, but if you go to Andeda you have to code that certain poet. Yeah, they have like this, uh, apprenticeship program, yeah yeah, so uh. For you to be a soft engineer or to be intake, you need to be really passionate about it. So yeah, and a better place to find those people are through communities, events and apprenticeships accadence workshops workshops.
Speaker 3:So, uh, if those companies who are claiming to be in tech or in tech, they can invest in those kinds of events. Yeah, if I see BK Irembo and what is CBK? Bk is a bank of key learning. Okay, I see in the other startups they're making it in North Kent. Yeah, you know, and they come together then they host, maybe monthly.
Speaker 1:HACA events. Haca events yeah.
Speaker 3:Events, as we do, on Google developer groups. Yeah, google developer.
Speaker 1:Oh, as you do at Africa's Talking, africa's Talking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as you guys are doing it, so it's like it can drive people from one place to another. Yeah. Without dragging people to universities to spend four years, you know, and come out for nothing. Yeah, Actually, it's like there are so many, there are some startups trying to do it as their business model. Yeah. But I think this needs to be like a community thing. Yeah, not a startup model. Yeah. Like if you you starting a startup and you're like I'm helping people graduate, maybe to get to a job. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you are raising money for that and those kind of stuff. You need to be that community guy. Yeah. You need to to invest more into community. Yeah, Other than bringing people to you. Yeah. I find it's really tricky to do because, like community has been helping for me. Yeah. For many other people I know. Yeah. I can even testify. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And some people are at Google, some people are at, you know, like Microsoft, yeah, and if you see them like four years from now, like before four years back, yeah it's like they were like non-vis, like they are asking some pretty dumb question what is HTML? Yeah. How can I write code? What is coding compiler or something like that? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And most of the time you're like, if we have like those kind of community, vibrant community, if you see communities in Lagos, they are so vibrant. If you see communities in Nairobi, so vibrant people attend, you know like it's, like you see passionate people there. Yeah, If we can have the same thing in Kigali, yeah, vibrant community helping each other. Yeah. And we see a lot of startups coming to pick passionate people from the community. Yeah. Not just universities or hiring people elsewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But coming to community, investing community yeah, investing people learning, then pick people from there, give them internship, yeah, yeah, we can have like a vibrant tech ecosystem in Rwanda throughout that way. I think that's one of my biggest challenge I gave to those kind of tech startup and companies in Kigali. Yeah, it's a challenge. It takes both of us to do it. Yeah. But I'm sure we can get there, yeah.
Speaker 1:True, true. So what's the future of Rwanda tech ecosystem?
Speaker 2:I think the future is bright in terms of the current, the talent is starting to you know, become abundant. Yeah. And that's a good thing. Yeah, I think that's a good start. Yeah. Then the other thing I mean during seeing a lot of startups get funded well. Yeah. And that's important, because all these things need money. True. True, All these things need money. You cannot put. There are no two ways around it.
Speaker 1:You have spoken like a businessman.
Speaker 2:Yes, and as someone who knows, who has been through startups, to struggle and all that stuff. It's important, even if you're a startup in as little capacity as you can. Yeah, have events, especially if your core business operations is also about technology. You have a tech team. Yeah, if you have software engineers, have a community. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I think that would greatly improve just the general buzz around the town in terms of if you have events, if you have people coming together. Yeah, Talk you know when. The more people come together, the more ideas are shared and the more you get innovation. Yeah, and you know, I bet a lot of good, great companies were built out of communities. True, True People come together and doing that.
Speaker 2:So I think it's just important and I think I would like to stress I commend you from coming all the way from KIA. I'm going to KIA tomorrow myself.
Speaker 1:Yes, you told me that, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I've been going there like probably every month for most of this year. Yeah. And obviously I just enjoy that experience of going there and seeing what is happening there. Yeah. And I think, as we are now integrating as a NIST Africa, as a NIST African, community and DRC has just joined. It's an incredible and there's a lot of opportunities in DRC. Yeah. This is the opportunity to really capitalize on the community things and you know, we just need to fix small, small things like flights flight costs.
Speaker 1:True, true, I agree with you. Yeah, that's not a joke, by the way, it's very serious.
Speaker 2:But listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Some of our engineers that will be joining us on Thursday. Until now they're not here because of the same same challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen we need to. We need to fix prices. They need to be in domestic flights and lower the prices greatly.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:If we can integrate in a way that you have, because in itself Kigali as a community will thrive if it integrated. But we can drive through the border, so yes. We can drive through the border.
Speaker 1:Fun fact. You know I had to. I was to. That's. This is how I'm committed. Yes, and I'm saying this with a lot of meaning. So when I set up an event, I don't cancel. This is chief know right. Last time we came here by bus, when you, I think, I told you that? That's dedication right. This event I was to come here. Come rain, come sunshine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Whether it's.
Speaker 1:I was to drive up to this point because when I used to board bus that was like 24 hour kind of journey. Yeah, but if I'm driving here, I think, 15 hours, and it's pretty safe. It's not for you. It's not for you. Yeah, so, and I think, even for you guys, now you're not, you're not suffering like when I met you last time right.
Speaker 1:It's about time we stop putting words and holding other people accountable because, you know, kenya always doesn't understand why you should lower the price, right? Yeah, they assume maybe because you're traveling, you're loaded, you have all the money to spend. But essentially we, we are young enough to dedicate this right, to do this and even drive maybe all the way to, I don't know, the farthest part of this country, but you can go to Bruny and do a community outreach there. Maybe you can go to Goma, to, you know, a community outreach there.
Speaker 1:Because one thing I've realized that, and thanks to Africa's Talking for making sure that I'm here, thanks to Impact Masters for making sure that we get the right equipment to do this, thanks to Atlas, and also for playing a key role and committed to like even our community, which is an opportunity for you guys. So I will be looking for leaders on that day to run that, so you have even more communities, as you're saying, africa Ruby Community. The chairman is here, abanad Banda. He also want to have a community. We try to do that with the chief here, but the follow up was not that great because people didn't meet, you know, and all that. But if you are committed to do this and are masking this to even members, because, even as an organizer, if I organize an event, no one shows up.
Speaker 1:You see, and that's not to say that I've never organized events and no one shows up. We have ever organized events and no one shows up, but that doesn't mean you stop.
Speaker 1:You go on organizing until you know the right people start showing up and communities all about like, hey, this community is awesome, you can learn one, two, three things. Please join us this time and even encourage our sisters, because we need them to know how to write code, maybe know how to design, maybe know how to, you know, do data science, models and all that. So it's a collective effort, to say the least. And then the companies let's find some of these initiatives, you understand, and with time, now, all these effort will join together and you'll see when the economy is driving. You'll see more proper engineers, you'll see more startups, you'll see funding following that pipeline. But let's not do with the end, let's do for now.
Speaker 1:What do you want to do Me? I just want to share knowledge. I want to meet awesome people like Salvi, who maybe I meet next time, I don't know. You understand. You understand, and I've seen also people do this for the wrong things. I mean the wrong mentality, like I want to do this, get a job, I want to do this, maybe I don't know, as a business, I want to do this. But if we just do it because you know we have a responsibility. Maybe our forefathers went to fight colonizers right. Some of them died. They left their family and nothing. They got from it, beside you being free.
Speaker 2:You understand.
Speaker 1:Right now there's no for us to go and fight in. We need to fight what?
Speaker 2:Poverty.
Speaker 1:We need to fight what Corruption, and the only way we can do that is sharing knowledge, is building solutions, is creating opportunities. So it was good chatting with you and those who are listening. Our event, which is partly workshop, partly acadone, is at North.
Speaker 1:Ken, kigali, north Ken House, kigali Awesome space, by the way. If you're planning to come to Kigali, if you're in Burundi I think it's a drive two hours or three hours, three hours drive Come and join us. We would love to be in Burundi. Maybe next time we would love to be in Malawi, zambia, drc. But please, guys, be patient. We love you and would like to reach out to you, but for this one, we will be in Kigali on the 13th October 2022, from 8 pm till late. We have a lot of prices, a lot of skills to share, best engineers in the world. I will be here to share that knowledge. The best community leads Actually, developer community expert with Michael Kemadio, mk will be here with you trying to share his knowledge, trying to build more communities, trying to show you how this journey works.
Speaker 1:We'll have people like Graham Mohanga. We'll have Buona Quelli. We'll have Chief. You'll be Nairobi right, unfortunately, we love Salvi. We'll have more other developers joining us and want us to build and run around this. So, if you're here, get your ticket. It's free of charge. There will be food, there will be some drinks and many more opportunities, but let's don't be motivated by all these shenanigans. Come for the knowledge and skill Is there food?
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, the food will be there, but don't come for food If there are going to be zombies.
Speaker 2:sambusas pizza no this is proper food.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're trying to eat healthy, remain healthy, so please show up, but I insist, come for the food go with the knowledge. But mostly come for the knowledge. You'll not get this anywhere else. Let me repeat you'll not get this anywhere else. If you're listening, make time, if you're working, you're an engineer, tell your boss, tell your CTO, or even come with your CTO that day. Maybe I should talk to his Excellency Paul Kagame that day. You guys cleaned the CTO. What's the name? Muganda?
Speaker 1:You should have a Muganda that day on that team, everyone, if you are taking okay, not everyone who is at Turkey, but you come to North Northskan, let's build, let's share knowledge, let's have a good time. Let's even share our experiences working for Bank of Kigali and working for Nigerian startup and working for I know there are guys who work for Andela here. It's about time you come and share that knowledge. Also, even meet other developers in the ecosystem. After talking, team will be here, interact with them, maybe even understand what they do as a business also, because we are just having fun empowering developers. That's the baseline. The rest actually just happened. So please join us and, without further ado, thank you so much for joining us, unless you have a parting shot.
Speaker 1:Even a quote even a book. The GDS doesn't want to share the knowledge for the first time.
Speaker 3:I think that people know me. I know most of the people in Kigali.
Speaker 1:People know you. We are sorry, people know you.
Speaker 3:You know, like every developer in Kigali. I think we have met in one way or another like in events, space, those kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:So if you guys like you know like want to build this tech ecosystem in Kigali, come join these events. There will be some you know like people you may meet and be like, life changing people for you, sharing knowledge. Have that conversation with someone who inspired you. That's the whole point of like these tech events. Just meet people and talk to whoever inspired you, whoever you feel like he's praying more important role in the tech ecosystem, and make connections and most of them, if you have something to share with someone or the community, just don't be shy. Start sharing it now, start showing off. Do this for the rest of the generation to come.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:I start encouraging, like everyone around Kigali, the developer, make a time, come to us, come join us.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Salvi. Yes, chief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would just like to thank Africa's talking and me, but I also want to say that this is an exciting time to be in East Africa especially. I think I'm so biased on East Africa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be in Africa.
Speaker 2:It to be in Africa and it's an exciting time. I don't think you also have to be like a software engineer to come. You just be curious. It could be a UX.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Could be a UI.
Speaker 1:Yes, because we'll also be learning how to work in teams, like you had this guy saying you know, as an engineer, you need to close issues. Now you ask me issues. You know people would know issues in relationships, right? No? This is Jira. This is Jira.
Speaker 1:There are things like Bitbucket, things like Trello, things like Jira service management. Those are the tools of trade. You said coding. You have to understand how to work with other teams, so all these are being shared in this event. If you are team manager, if you're product manager, if you're project manager, if you're CEO, if you're founder, you are welcome. All you just need to do at Atlassian Community Nairobi website. The first event that is happening on that team is Atlassian Community Workshop in Kigali. Get a ticket. Or go to Africa Stocking Community get a ticket. The first event there is Africa Stocking Workshop mini summit Kigali. Get a ticket. So you have no excuse. Also, on our Twitter handle at Africa Stocking, the event is shared there. On our Twitter handle at AC Nairobi, it is at Atlassian Community Nairobi. The event is shared there. The links are there. Just get yourself a ticket and join us. Please finish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just wanted to say it's an exciting time to be in Africa. I want you to encourage you to meet as many, especially in the tech space. Anything you do, whether you appeal, product owner, product manager, software engineer, ux, ui it's an exciting time to be contributing. It's an exciting time to come together and innovate.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, Thank you so much, guys. This was amazing, amazing stuff, amazing, amazing stuff. And this is Impact Masters podcast, africa Stocking podcast, in collaboration with developers in Kwanzaa, doing amazing moves. Guys who are referred to as geniuses and among us are recording our story, especially on tech ecosystem, and creating our own story, going forward Until next time. Thank you so much. It's your host, Michael Kemadi, or MKV1z. Until next time, bye.
