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Impact Masters Podcast
#39 - Vivens Uezimana
What does it take to transform the digital economy and future of work in Africa? Join us as we uncover the journey of Vivens Zuey Zemana, a visionary leader from rural Rwanda who has excelled far beyond his roots. Vivens shares his inspiring story, from mastering mathematics and science to becoming a beacon of youth empowerment and business development across the continent. Discover how he collaborates with the government and aligns his innovative projects with national agendas to close the skill gap and uplift Africa's youth.
We also take a deep dive into Rwanda's educational landscape, focusing on cutting-edge institutions like Kepler, Carnegie Mellon, and Africa Leadership University. Experience how the competency-based learning model at Kepler equips students with essential skills in Microsoft Office, Google Suites, teamwork, and communication. Through practical, scenario-based training, these institutions prepare students for real-world challenges, making them proficient in data analysis and software development, thereby enhancing their global employability.
Rwanda's vision for a knowledge economy by 2045 and 2050 is ambitious, and Vivens is at the forefront of this transformation. Learn about his efforts in co-founding Rwanda Corporation, establishing a football academy for under-17 talents, and his broader vision for Rwanda's socioeconomic development. From youth empowerment programs to strategic investments in sports that boost tourism and business, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how government and private sector innovations are revolutionizing Rwanda and setting a precedent for the entire African continent. Don't miss this enlightening conversation that's sure to inspire and inform.
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yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's another beautiful day, the day of the lord. It's another beautiful day, the day of the Lord, and here, once again, I welcome you to our Impact Masters podcast, in collaboration with Africa's Talking Podcasts Coming live from Rwanda, the land of a thousand hills, and many other more successes, and we are lighting tech makers, movers and shakers, people who are focusing on ensuring africa drives as a nation by providing solution. Be part of the solution. When we talk about africa's talking, we offer you SSD, sms, airtime, data bundles and voice solutions. Check Africa's Talking at africastalkingcom. Check out impactmastersio. Follow us, subscribe, like and share with any person who wants to hear about Africa Tech Ecosystem. Today is a beautiful day because we are blessed to be here to witness what Paul Kagame is doing with this ecosystem setting a digital economy, among many other wins. However, today I'll be hosting Michael Kimathi on MK, if you want, or MK if you want, and today we are blessed to host one and only, vivian Zuey Zemana.
Speaker 2:These are building infrastructure and developing African talent for the future of work and digital economy in Africa. The man himself Hard working and collaborative individual who acquired a lot of expertise at a young age, where he got huge experience in business development, project management, program design, data analysis and the reason he did basics in programming for the main purpose of building the good experience in product management. He has done his work in various settings, including education institutions, government and private sector, always committed to Africa's socioeconomic development, youth empowerment and access to finance. Yes, yes, yes, vivens, how are you? I'm good, I'm good. What about you Me? I'm yes, vivens. How are you? I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1:What about you?
Speaker 2:Me, I'm good, Great, this beautiful evening.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And I'm happy to be in Kigali, rwanda. Welcome, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, are you?
Speaker 1:still working for the government, so I left last year. But the good thing, what I'm doing You're working remotely, so what I'm doing it's really interconnected to the government agenda. So, which sometimes brings some partnerships around with government.
Speaker 2:Very nice, very nice. So for us, we like starting all the way back. How did they start? Who is Vivian's? Where did it all start? Is it in kigali or no, outside of kigali.
Speaker 1:Outside of kigali okay tell us about it cool, um, so it's a it's, it's. It's an interesting story, but a challenging one that's why we have to hear it absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Um, born, yes, and raised in the rural areas of rwanda, in the western province of the country. Okay, but growing uh, I was this, uh, good student in mathematics and science. So, and here in rwanda, if you can succeed well in mathematics and science across primary school and high schools, you tend to win the best positions in class every time. So then that was me, and it brought a good result. At the end of the day, I could see how I was winning and my plan was not to study in Rwanda. When it comes to university, yes, yes, for me at least, to go where, maybe us, uk, where at least my potential can be utilized. Yes, so, but uh, I didn't go to us alive. But later on, by the way, after high school, I secured the us-based university, all right, one of the best universities in the country called Kepler. They selected the top students. So then I did my studies from Southern New Hampshire University, which is, in the US, one of the known universities for competence-based curriculum, but through Kepler program. Then, the time I was at Kepler, in the first year for me, I was already qualifying for multiple job opportunities. Okay, and then it was exciting right after one end, the university, you are qualifying for multiple opportunities in Rwanda, getting some gigs outside of Rwanda, etc. Yes, and then it brought a challenge to me. Yes, back in high schools to get along with the best students, but most of them they were in two categories. Some of them were already. They are done with high schools. They are not going anywhere and then what happens is to make sure that they are unemployed immediately from high school. Another category it's for the students who are going to pursue local university programs and they know they will spend four years in the university but they will graduate without the skills needed in the job market. So it brought a challenge to me. For me, I was good US-based university, a lot of opportunities, benefits, etc. But I said there is a challenge we have to solve. There is an issue of these young people graduating from high school. They don't proceed with universities and there are universities who are graduating with an irrelevant skills to the job market, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Then I was young it was in 2019, that time, by the way and then I was like this solution might be complex to me as of now, to invest in security development and we supply the skills to the whole world. Then what happened is I continued my studies, but doing research at the same time around building skills in africa and supplying skills across the world. Okay, I was doing deep research on that. Then I said I'm from rural area. I don't have any family member here to back me. Remy, make sure that I go to look for a job and then I get the essential experience money to live in Kigali, to set up, to understand, even to get the experience Immediately. I did my university very quick In 2018, that was my last day in the university and then at that time, I got an opportunity, which was more of a tough internship, in a government company which is called Rwanda Corporation.
Speaker 1:It's an institution under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs International Corporation in Rwanda which manages Rwanda's homegrown solutions and innovations. And then from there, it was right institution and now, if you are into the whole country's homegrown solutions and innovations, that's even where you can innovate more. I would understand what was done and what was the gap. So that's how it started. I graduated from uni, I kept doing deep research on my case study, on the skills, skills, skills development and supply, and then I did a job. I went for my opportunity Tirwana Corporation. After internship, I was given the full-time job One of the best institutions here, by the way as well Benefits ETC. A lot of things, doing really strong things, doing stronger programs, because in the institution, you work with each and every ministry in this country and the government institution and the public and the private sectors with innovations. So that's how it started. Then later last year, 2022. I left after three years in the institution. I left to bury that idea, which came in 2019. That is in summary. That's in summary, yes, but you don't want a summary.
Speaker 2:You don't want a summary, not even me, even our listeners who love to hear. Wow I see, so you said you started school in Western Uganda, right?
Speaker 1:In Western Rwanda. Rwanda yeah, Rwanda yes.
Speaker 2:So, and this is where you did all your primary school and high school- yeah, I did primary school in the Western province where I was born from.
Speaker 1:I did the first level of high school, the ordinary level, again in the western province, Then in Erevo. Last three years of high school I did the studies from southern part of the country that's southern province. That's why I did the last three years of the high school and then that's where I used it to be even coming to Kigali.
Speaker 2:So what was outstanding in this uh high school?
Speaker 1:you know um experience from the western side of so like what was outstanding to me personally, so for me I I am among ordinary level, like being the first every time, every year, and then as of now, that is, across Rwanda or just Western side. Western side. Okay, what about?
Speaker 2:Rwanda in general.
Speaker 1:Rwanda in general. Rwanda in general. Of course it's the same again Top, top, top yeah.
Speaker 2:Top 1% or top 1? You guys, I'm just trying to understand. So, in Rwanda there's a national examination.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:Do they rank who performed the best Of?
Speaker 1:course, of course they do when did you rank?
Speaker 1:Where I ranked, as I said both, either in the World Evo, as I said both, either in OREVO, in our school in the national examination no. In national examination, yes. National examination on OREVO. After first three years of the high school I was the best student in the school and among the top across the districts and regions. Then also in Erevo, the last three years of high school where I did the studies in the southern province part of the country. At that school as well, I was among again the top two in the national examination in that school and among the top across the country. National Erevo. That's very nice. So how does it feel to and among the top across the country? National level that's very nice.
Speaker 2:So how does it feel to be at the top?
Speaker 1:It is so challenging.
Speaker 2:Besides getting you know celebrated.
Speaker 1:I know you know that.
Speaker 2:How does it really feel?
Speaker 1:It feels so pressure, and more of it feels more of it brings a lot of pressure. That's one second. It brings the good quality of accountability, because the pressure comes whenever there is an exam. You want to make sure that, as the best student, you must add each and everything, yeah, to make sure that there is no room for missing anything, any poem. And then it brings accountability, because people already are aware of that. You become the best. So how are you going to bring mediocrity? The people already are betting on you. They expect that you do everything right. So that's the way around it.
Speaker 2:But it brings that feeling of pressure and even accountability at the same time and Kigali is a bit interesting because you guys already have international kind of standard of institutions- Absolutely Things like Carnegie Mellon, there's Africa Leadership University.
Speaker 1:Kepra.
Speaker 2:I told you Kepra, New Hampshire, which is is, you know, you can be able to access, and this thanks to your government and the administration that is really trying to bring you up to standard among us. You know the world and, for you, when you were thinking about going to US, you didn't go to US, right I? Didn't yeah was that like a turn off?
Speaker 1:was that, like you know, uh discouragement for you for me it was not discouragement, because already making it to kepler, which is implementing the us-based model, and the universe, the degree has to be even imported from us. Yes, yes for me.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Mean important?
Speaker 1:Important we don't get the local certificates here.
Speaker 2:They send you the certificates.
Speaker 1:I credited from the US, absolutely. Then I was like this is something which is going to really utilize my potential, because my potential was I was looking very far since the beginning and then it was no discouragement. But for me it was to say Remy utilizes this university very well so that I can champion what I want. But it was no discouragement because I was already getting international university which was among my plans, and for me it was no longer to say I have to go to USTC. The thing was can I get international curriculum? Can I get international curriculum? Can I get international skills that I was looking for? Yeah, can I get the global space where you can read, demonstrate and showcase what I can do and learn? So that was the way around about. It was not so discouraging.
Speaker 2:yeah so please, uh. I liked more on uh. How is that like? Do you have online classes, do they?
Speaker 1:Blended learning model Online classes 40%, 60%. Local instructors and facilitators here.
Speaker 2:So these instructors and facilitators right yeah.
Speaker 1:Who are?
Speaker 2:teaching international curriculum yes. Do they come all the way from the US? No.
Speaker 1:They are trained before they are given jobs? Yeah, by the US, or by the US? By the US, yeah, but they're just Africans, africans, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So if someone wanted to join some of this curriculum, which I think is a bit prestigious, you can tell them with 100% certainty that they're getting the right standard, absolutely.
Speaker 1:For those who need Rwanda. If you want to go to Kepler, to Kaneji Mero, to African Leadership University, you are in good hands, as long as you know what you want. Absolutely, you know it matters most. Again, it's not about the best school you go to, it's about you, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That is very powerful.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, so that's the way I own it, but those are the top three universities. If you know what you want, yes, you are in a good hand. Very, very good, very good so what did you?
Speaker 2:one lesson, what that's? One lesson that you learned from these, especially the Kepler, kepler, that you felt like if you were just in another local university you would not really learn.
Speaker 1:I don't. Let me tell you. The first six months we were learning, we were in what you call foundational program, and the foundational program they are teaching you to be proficient in Microsoft Office and Google Suites. Local universities that's not there For me, if you.
Speaker 2:At the university level? You don't, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:They don't, absolutely they don't know. Then if you meet someone from Kepler and you look at what they can do with Microsoft Excel PowerPoint, you feel like they are IT people. While it's one of the basics before first six months For all the programs For all the programs.
Speaker 1:Then also in addition that proficiency in IET computer science. They add a big part which is not available in Africa. Soft skills they are teaching you teamwork, communication, adaptability through practical scenarios, yeah. And then the first six months. That's after six months in the uni, most of the talents. If they want it, they can even leave, they go to the whole package they wanted and then, if you have those basics, you can be a good software developer. You can be a good data analyst, because you were given the foundation of how do we learn in a competency-based model? Because a company is a competency-based model, it's not a theory. So then that foundational program, first six months, and having them using a competency-based model, were the top things that we gained, which you can't find anywhere in other universities. Here it's known.
Speaker 2:So please break down that competency-based model at the university level. What does it look like? Do you like learn?
Speaker 1:get a project.
Speaker 2:Do you get a project, get paid? How does it work?
Speaker 1:This is how it works. They design their program in a scenario-based way and how it is that. Let us take an example. You are going to study data analysis in Microsoft Excel. How they break that curriculum down is they do this way? They have recorded resources and materials.
Speaker 1:Before you go in a class, you are first going to do what we call a pre-class. The student comes in a class already mastered what they are going to be given by the instructors. When you reach in the class, you will not see an instructor going in front of you to teach you. An instructor is already bringing the five scenarios or projects and depict them from companies here and then from what you did in the pre-class. During the class you are just coming to be in groups, work on a certain challenge challenge and you do the presentation and from there you are given feedback in the class and if they are not well done, you are given the homework to go and then do it away.
Speaker 1:If you understand, it's more of running past the program and you are the one doing and learning and teaching yourself, running a PEST program and you are the one doing and learning and teaching yourself than the trainer and the instructor and educator. That's how they break down their things. It's the student, they say. The student is at the core of our teaching and learning. That's why at Kepler, they will structure something that you will be a student and you ask a teacher.
Speaker 1:By the way, hi, I have the question of how, maybe, if you are doing, maybe, the business management program and maybe you are at the series strategy, when you ask, anyway, what can be the best series strategy for the telecom company like MTN, the teacher will not respond to you. The teacher will ask you first, what do you think you share what you think, and then, after he asks the class, what do you think, and then the teacher comes as a facilitator of those insights you provided, and then the teacher is pushing you to tell you that you can do it yourself. That's a competency-based model I'm talking about. Makes a lot of sense, it sounds nice.
Speaker 2:The reason I'm asking is that in Kenya we are trying to adopt CBC, which is competency-based curriculum. I think right now it's in grade five or something. Even we're changing how people should spend time in junior primary school. Senior primary school then go to junior secondary. It's a whole different ballgame because I did 8 for 4. Most of the people are still doing 8 for 4.
Speaker 2:So it's something that we're learning as we go. Of course it's proving to be very expensive. I don't know if it so it's something that we are learning as we go. Of course it's proving to be very expensive. I don't know if it's because it's in infancy stage, but of course we can learn from each other as African countries see where the winds are learn from even the rest of the world and see how it goes Now.
Speaker 2:Mr Vivens, After you did your school and qualified, participated in kepler. You know process and curriculum and what exactly did you do in that program?
Speaker 1:at kepler. At kepler I did business management as the bachelor's degree and specialization. But remember I said I was great in mathematics and science. Back the time I was doing business management as my bachelor's degree I had the challenge again to do either data analysis or software development. Then at Kepler I was doing business management in parallel of doing data analysis programs to make sure that I can be both the business developer and also I can be a data analyst. And remember I said after I also did the programming to get to understand the essentials of building software.
Speaker 2:Which language did you?
Speaker 1:do so the language I did. I took more for JavaScript family or JavaScript family. I was doing the summary act, of course, on the front end, and started to interact with nodejs on looking at the how the backend works and also, at the end of the day, even mastering even the, mastering even the UI and UX design, utilizing Figma as a tool to do that. And also, you know, we started from HTML, we moved to. Css and then we moved. So that was the way around Did you like it.
Speaker 1:I liked it because I'm a mathematics person. For me, I could become both a data analyst and a software developer business, but I can't handle all of those things. But you're smart, Steve, no, no. But when you have a lot again, you need to say, okay, let me pick this. No need of absolutely for focus and specialization.
Speaker 2:So you just picked business development.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but in the conversation I will tell you how all of those things came to become good results to what we do at the moment. But I did business management as many. Specialization, that analysis, it's specialization for it. Yeah, where you did essentials was on software development but data analysis, parallel two years doing program but more of running from youtube, different experts, from gigs, from challenges, etc.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you also the graduate of YouTube University.
Speaker 1:YouTube Social Media University.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And you know, with YouTube you can learn Whatever you want, for sure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And just choose what you want Sure, but Fast forward. Looks like you started Also teaching at the campus.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:What led to that? What was that?
Speaker 1:So the thing is, uh, at kepler that's what I told you they are into competence based learning. So when you are at you at kepler, they started to scout some students performing very well to be given opportunities at the university not internship, yeah, they call it work, study, but it's paid, it's more of like a apprenticeship. So then that's where I got an opportunity to be an assistant to the academic campus director for College for America, so it means the director who oversee this online program, which is being from US Southern New Hampshire University. I was the academic campus director assistant and I was more, of course, helping him, more of doing the data analysis task, evaluating the performance of the students, and one of the major milestones I did the time I was doing that job was, uh, I built, but with it, the data analysis tool which tracks all of the students' performance whenever they are enrolled in the university.
Speaker 1:It means the tracker has more or foremost if, functions which are more than 20, and it tracks everyone the time you are enrolled in the university. It means this is what I mean with it. They track and say in the first university, you cover this second year, you cover this third year, you cover this. That means if you didn't cover. If you covered this, you are at 100%. If you didn't cover this, that means you may be on 80% 70%, and this can be the tool to scout immediately the performance of the students who are lagging behind, who are performing very well.
Speaker 1:It became more of a tool to assess every student, despite any data analysis tool where you can track all of the data of the students since they are enrolled in the university. It is a continuous data analysis tool where you can track all of the data of the students Since they are enrolled in the university. It is a continuous data analysis tool which is being used to push some students, to reward some students, because we developed the metrics that if you perform these modules, you are at this stage. If you finish these modules, you are at this stage. So if you are lagging behind, you are not there. So that's the way I wanted. That was one of the key major milestones which I did with that job. And what did that process help with in terms of academics, in terms of?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it helps in terms of designing personalized programs and coaching to students who are not performing to the metrics expected in each level, to each and every specialization across the university and again it's being helping to again to improve the way teachers are assessing their students, because every instructor can access the tool and they see everyone's performance. It's more of a performance analysis tool which is helping the whole school a that to improve the students and even it to know who is doing where, who is not doing a good, etc. Yeah, yeah, it's a complex tutorial.
Speaker 2:Yeah sure still being used, or it was people it is still being used at the moment.
Speaker 1:There are certain. I talked to some of the guys who are part of our data team at Kepler, so it's still being used.
Speaker 2:Very nice, so why did you leave the program?
Speaker 1:So that's where I got an opportunity to go to Rwanda Corporation.
Speaker 2:So it was more of an upgrade Absolutely, absolutely. And you became a co-founder and ceo absolutely of the same program, or just now they're cooperating.
Speaker 1:No, no, if you have seen there is another. Now what I'm doing is um rava. I think we will reach there. Yeah, we'll get, but before I, I also co-foundedfounded more of a social enterprise program which was investing in sports, education and also health programs with a target of helping vulnerable young people across Kigali, and we pivoted the program because co-founders gave up, and at the time they gave up. We took health and educational programs. We handed them over to a certain organization as well. Yeah, but for me, I sticked with the football academy which is under 17.
Speaker 1:Okay and you're also a footballer I'm not a footballer but I'm really sports enthusiast, if I would put in that context.
Speaker 1:But by the way, you play basketball so very nice then with football academy, if we will chat more about um, betting on human capital development across africa. Yes, and one of the best thing to invest in is sports. Sports is something at least if we can produce as an academy 100, maybe under 15 talents to come to the market. At least Rodo 2 can be successful. Maybe in the future they make it to Manchester United, efsa, barcelona. Those are the guys who can come back to build the schools here to do ETC, you understand. So sport is something I'm betting on. I own the academy. I don't talk about it, but it's something. Even I will do a big venture in the future. Someone recently interested in sports, ready to to chat more about? Uh, I want to bet on the, the, the, the sports, especially for football. Yes, in terms of developing the guys. So that's something. I did the same the time I was in the uni.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah but uh, I'll ask something around that, because uh, is it the government really that encouraged you, or is sport really big in Rwanda?
Speaker 1:So sport is? You know Rwanda, because of the history we have of the genocide against the Tutsi we have had From 1994. What this government focused on was socio-economic development on speed. So then, as we progress, the country has developed a lot in terms of public infrastructure roads, different markets, schools, etc. Now, where we are as a country is now, what can we do more?
Speaker 1:And you find that in Rwanda we don't have enough minerals, we don't have ETC. The best resource we have is people. And now, if it comes to people, the country is already watching. What can we do? Let's invest in sports. We are among the top big organizations, events hosting in this country. You know, yes, yes, why? Let us at least be the events center? Because that's the only one thing again which we can do.
Speaker 1:Very well, sports is the same. Now, people are winning, are betting on sports, but the government already is designing good programs for sports, building a lot of public infrastructures either football pitch everywhere, basketball, volleyball, etc. There is the will from the people who see that sports, it's a big sector, to transform each and everything. Yes, because sports is really manufacturing a lot of jobs, if I would put in that context, right, yeah, imagine now if we started to produce the best sports talents, whom we even export to global markets. Yes, we are developing our economies in that way, but really from the people and also the government policies which are really coming to be an enabler to some of the programs.
Speaker 2:Now, still on sports, I'll ask you your thoughts about the government investing a lot of money in Arsenal.
Speaker 1:I see yes.
Speaker 2:What is your thought?
Speaker 1:Very great Because remember with me I know both public and private sectors here very well and the time Rwanda invested in Arsenal I don't remember the figures, but we had more of almost a 30x growth In return, absolutely Of the visitors that we used to have here as the results of that marketing, that branding, that awareness of visiting Rwanda with us.
Speaker 2:So it was a good investment.
Speaker 1:It was not good. It was the best investment In Africa, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this investment happened in Europe. Is it not possible to invest in Africa, or the returns are minimal.
Speaker 1:Reason we have to, most of the times, understand Europe, america.
Speaker 1:They are almost 50 years ahead of where we are as the African continent and imagine the tourism we really have.
Speaker 1:Of course we mobilize even domestic tourism across our countries, across countries in Africa, but, honestly speaking, when it comes to who is bringing some money to pay for these tourist areas, only the American and European is willing to bring a lot of money. That's where, again, I salute our government, and even with our excellent Sporogazami, to know that the good target market is this Europe, these American people. They have money, they can be coming here when they come as a tourist. When they come as a tourist and we to this very well when they come as a tourist and we have created a good environment as the country. Ease of doing business we are really good. They're just starting business and they want it to take six hours, my friend, if they come here, they find the security, cleanliness, ease of doing business. Now these tourists are willing to build companies here. That's why I was telling you that it was good to target the market to not only shoot to tourist but again turning tourist to business investors here in Rwanda.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, that also brings me to another point that I've noticed in Rwanda people start working when they are young. The guys who are in high school are still working. The guys who are in college are still working. Please speak a bit about that, because most Africans would learn from this.
Speaker 1:I think, again, it starts from the good country, which has great youth empowerment programs. And when you look at what we have in Rwanda, we have ministers who are being appointed at 28 years old, 30 years old, ETC, Very young ministers, right. And what this encourages is and again that's from a public side, In a private side, if you're a young person, very creative, very innovative, a problem solver, and you can work on a certain solution in education, agriculture, ETC, the government has really some sort of programs to support these. Young people are betting on this and then most of the times when we are young, we even empower the young people. That's how it starts, from Government empowering young people, young people being empowered and they empower other young people. That's how the generation comes in in terms of you seeing many young people being empowered and they empower other young people. That's how the generation comes in in terms of you seeing many young people dominating in some of the activities, the jobs here in Rwanda, entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2:So there is even that self-drive for. There is absolutely For even many youth who are not in government but also in private sector.
Speaker 1:In the private sector.
Speaker 2:And would you say for sure that other African countries they should actually focus more on investing in the private sector? And would you say for sure that other African countries should actually focus more on investing in the youth?
Speaker 1:Please they should, because, remember, 60% of Africans are under 25 years old. The average age in Africa is 18 years old. So what does it mean? It means a large population we have is young people, so they have to be empowered. And when we are empowered, we can ensure that even our leaders go in a retirement value, because if I'm a young person and I'm getting good money, why am I going to get my father or mother, with 50 years, to keep hustling? You can't take care of them, right? So it means that when you invest in young people, you get, I think, double. They are willing to run quickly and they have enough efforts to deliver. So that's the way around and it's something most of the African countries needed to count in terms of counting young people as their best human, the best resource they have and which they wanted to utilize.
Speaker 2:So is that one of the things actually that encouraged you to join government as a training and study visit officer?
Speaker 1:So of course, the time I went there it was again very interesting.
Speaker 2:Did you get a?
Speaker 1:call. Here is the thing I remember.
Speaker 2:You are here when you get appointed in the government.
Speaker 1:I know you receive a call, I know. So this is what happened. Back in high school I had big dreams of maybe once to say I can work for a ministry Maybe Minister of Education or Minister of whatever IT, something like that, depending on the areas I was interested in. And now I would say for me, I met my dream, and how so?
Speaker 1:Rwanda Corporation manages Rwanda's homegrown solutions and innovations across public sector. It's an institution which is the knowledge hub of government of Rwanda, because that's the institution which is managing what I would call self-cooperation programs. It means this is a UN framework of if Rwanda did it in agriculture, in IT, in unity and reconciliation, kenya can do it, uganda can do it. If Uganda made it in, maybe public infrastructure, rwanda can do it. What it means is now the framework of enabling Afrikaners to share expertise and experiences. That's what the institution does.
Speaker 1:And then with me now I was working with each and every ministry in this country on a daily basis, because with my role I was into programs and projects, design mainly. And then I was working with the government institutions here every day on a daily basis again, but working with other institutions from across the world. Yeah, like if I tell you in kenya. You know probably most of the two ministers. Yeah, if I want, I can share with you the contact. Why? Because, because, um, what I was doing on a daily basis is to make sure that you interact with, uh, these government institutions. Yeah, and how I went there to go to that? Um, I was selected among the students whom they were scouting to go there, okay. So I went there to do the test, I did the test and I was hired and, um, one of the greatest milestones, uh, I really even have, because it gave me the exposure to understand very well what country has country has done yeah and what they are prioritizing.
Speaker 1:Like if you talk to you talk to me, at least I know each and everything with our vision in 2020, which we completed recently. I'm aware of our vision in 2045.
Speaker 2:If you can in summary tell us what this vision is all about if you have achieved them? Or if you didn't achieve them, what are the lessons? How did you carry on?
Speaker 1:So, with vision in 2020, there were the black it had I would call strategic plans as well, and then those strategic plans were brought around different sectors the country could be like with infrastructure. We want to achieve this With education. We want to make sure that each and every maybe Rwandan can access education right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There were unity and reconciliation programs, so there are visions built across different sectors, yeah. But to speak now to where we are going 2045, rwanda plans to be the middle-income country. 2050, we want it to be a higher-income country, and one of the best things Rwanda is betting on is now knowledge economy. Knowledge economy is at the core of our 2050 vision and then when we talk about knowledge economy, you understand. Now you are coming to bet on the scale for young people. So that's the key highlight.
Speaker 1:If you are aware of that and you are an innovator, you understand what to do, right. So then, most of the times, when you see the, the, the, the government policies and the targets and the plans, yeah, and you're into private sector, yeah, you become an integral part in terms of being a good partner to the policy and you're part of the national agenda when it comes to implementation, yeah. So then that's one of probably the key highlights uh in our upcoming 20 vision in 2045, which we are already undertaking with uh, our mid-term plan of uh, which we call national nc, any, any city one right so national yeah, national strategy for transformation, one you understand.
Speaker 1:now the country is transforming itself. Now, with that, there is targets in health, targets in human resource, targets in education, targets in tourism, targets in the need of doing business. They are scattered and when you need to read them, that's where, as an entrepreneur, you will come by the way. If I'm innovating, if I'm solving this problem, what does the policy speak about this? What can I do to support this policy? So that's the way around, and it helps most of the times.
Speaker 2:when it comes to Now another question I would ask around this is does His Excellency bring bright mind like you and put you in a room and say this is what I want implemented and works with you closely? Or is it self-driven or ministry driven? How is it?
Speaker 1:this is a. It is that's from president driven, first of all, because his excellence is. He has more than programs he initiated. Yes, there's something like meet young professionals. Yes, meet young professionals. They collect young people from universities into young entrepreneurs, young people from corporates. Full day event with his excellence in the president chatting about countries, development, what young people can support. What are you doing for president himself to hold the young people accountable, to tell them we are the ones who have to drive this? That's one program. He was the key of Youth Connect. Youth Connect was born from here.
Speaker 2:Is the program happening this week.
Speaker 1:Youth Connect is happening this week, and now Youth Connect moved from being a Rwandan program to becoming a continental program. The Youth Connect Africa is taking place in Kenya this year.
Speaker 2:Which one I was wondering?
Speaker 1:Yes, it's going to happen in October I don't remember the time, but your recent deputy president, richard Rigati Gashagua, the time we attended Youth Connect here this year, he requested that Kenya wants to be the host. Now those are the programs that the president has initiated which are already known, where he meets young people to chat, and not only that, he's also doing some other really close activities with different young people, encouraging them, etc. And then you find that it starts from the president with his vision, his will to young people's potential, to what they can do, to include them either in the private sector, public sector, etc. And also now to making sure that what's next when it comes to what the institutions already run from him. That's why, most of the times, the president is the role model to most of the programs. Now, if he's doing a meeting professionals, that's a youth empowerment program yeah ministry has to take over immediately.
Speaker 1:Right, he's a good initiator and he is this person who keeps uh throwing up, but we initiated this last two years where are the results?
Speaker 2:yeah, where are the results? Yeah, absolutely not even progress not the progress.
Speaker 1:Where are the results? I remember he attended this program later, two years, here. Then tell us what are the results again. He has this up again. We have something very interesting here in Rwanda which is called Citizen Outreach. Citizen Outreach that's where the president said maybe this month I'm going to visit all the districts in this province.
Speaker 2:One by one.
Speaker 1:He can visit four districts meeting citizens. Thousands of citizens gather to meet the president and most of the times, young people are encouraged to be there when these cities are now out of reach. That's where things are tough.
Speaker 2:I hear people get fired on the spot. You got it.
Speaker 1:He comes.
Speaker 2:I'm a young person.
Speaker 1:I can ask a question, hi President, I'm breeding this, but the district or province didn't support me. Why didn't they support me? I reached out to them for almost 10 times. They didn't hear me, and the mayor can't leave me there to do.
Speaker 2:Or Vivian was running this program, but we have never seen him here. Absolutely, we haven't seen him here, when is he Absolutely yeah, call Viven, tell him he's fired. That's it yeah, and it's a good thing, but unfortunately and this maybe doesn't concern you, but Magufuli tried to do the same thing. Absolutely Unfortunately, he didn't see the light of the day, but I feel like this is just all to Africa, because all of us, we have one common goal.
Speaker 2:To fight poverty and diseases and ensure that we're able also to fight corruption, because it's not really doing us anything good and for our listeners. The reason why we do Impact Masters and Africa's Talking Podcast is to allege such things to our young people, both the young and old, the government anything good and for our listeners, the reason why we do impact masters and africa's talking podcast is to allege such things to our young people, both the young and old, the government and if you can learn from these experiences, because at the end of the day, we don't live in our in isolation, one global village which depends on each other.
Speaker 2:Yep, um. So some of these lessons are worth sharing, are worth sharing and we can learn from each other. The only challenge comes can we be able to implement after the lessons? Absolutely. So, that it doesn't sound like a motivational talk.
Speaker 2:A motivational talk, absolutely so we should be challenged enough to say that you know it's about time that we started. You know we started implementing, we started reviewing even after implementing, to see where we are going wrong, etc. The reason also, again, we, we as africa's talking, we are going to each country, like here in rwanda. Now we have our second uh biggest academy in rwanda, in kigali it's happening in africa leadership university uh, it's around uh, industrial area opposite, uh, um azam, I know.
Speaker 2:So it's around there and all the entrepreneurs, all the developers, all the talent you said it's a talent-based economy.
Speaker 1:Absolutely A knowledge-based economy.
Speaker 2:They invited you here because, after you learn one or two skills, the best you to test is building stuff. Absolutely so you're focusing on people who are writing solutions using code software engineers, developers, IoT engineers Come build with us tomorrow, that is, on 8th, no 19th 19th. August 2023. Come build with us throughout the day. All our best engineers will be there.
Speaker 2:You'll be able to see what the challenges are and you'll not come out the same way we got in, absolutely. We're not just doing this one-off. I remember we did the same in August, in October last year, october, september, I can't recall the exact date. But, essentially what I'm saying is that from this hackathon expect hackathon every month.
Speaker 1:Every month, every month.
Speaker 2:Also a meetup every month around writing solutions. Wow. So even we are calling our excellency His Highness Paul Kagame. This is another program actually. You should look closely.
Speaker 1:Closely Join us.
Speaker 2:Let's join hands Because, at the end of the day Africa we need each other.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and if Rwanda succeeds, that means Kenya fails. If Kenya succeeds, it doesn't mean nigeria fails absolutely. I know there's so much going on in nigeria, mali. I know in africa, our brothers, we, you, should be united and seeing how can we be able to eradicate some of these issues that people keep raising generation after generation and ensure that you are progressing absolutely. And that's it. I'm proud to meet you with events. Maybe I didn't tell you that because at your age, and doing all these amazing stuff is not only outstanding but also, uh, emulative and challenging for most of the users because most people at your age.
Speaker 2:They are thinking you know, until government opens job opportunities you know, but we can do it. Actually, we should be the government. We should be able to implement some of this absolutely and we start now. Everything else follows. Chief, you joined the corporation. You do amazing work there. What was your biggest challenge, with all these wins and everything? What was your biggest challenge? Was it, uh, the financing, or maybe the pressure from the? What?
Speaker 1:was it or? It was this smooth, so with the startup we are doing, or the cooperation program from the government, rwanda corporation.
Speaker 1:So, um, the toughest the challenge. Challenge is where it to one. Remember, I said my background, I tended to care much about only the mathematics and the etc. And then I was joining a private company, but for the government, and that private institution is implementing foreign policy. Right, and here you have to wear the hat of again being a diplomat at the same time, at the same time.
Speaker 1:So, coping up with diplomacy behaviors, wearing suits every day, learning how even to speak you know politicians, they have the polite way of how they say things Learning to first, again, master what we are doing because, remember, when you are joining the company, the institution, like that one, rwanda Corporation, you have to understand each and every country, programs, innovation, challenges, etc. Because that's what you are managing, that's what you are sharing with other countries in terms of knowledge exchange and experience programs, right, and then to master. I could spend a night running each and every government program which was implemented and I could watch the news on Rwanda TV every time to understand what is happening across Rwanda, because tomorrow I'm going to be asked by a certain delegation from Kenya.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We wanted to implement maybe community-based health insurance program, like as Rwanda did. Yes, we wanted to implement maybe community-based health insurance program, like as Rwanda did. We wanted to build the Onirai portal for government services, and now Kenya is doing it and they're being shared the expertise from Rwanda with our company called Irembo here. Right, so then I could make sure that I'm updated with what is happening and understanding the previous programs. Remember I was joining the government institution and I didn't be in the government.
Speaker 1:I was working with 10-plus years of experience people in the government and I haven't been the same standard. So I could spend nights learning about the programs, watching news to understand what is happening, and again, sometimes being mandated even to understand what is happening in Liberia, what is happening in Chad, to understand. We are a day so that, okay, do we have knowledge exchange programs that Rwanda can share with them, can provide to them. So it was tough. It was tough.
Speaker 2:So I mean we should not be sending military to you know, kill each other, because at the end of the day, even behind the military there are people.
Speaker 2:There are fathers, there are brothers there are sisters, we should and this is my personal opinion so I feel like we need to raise, or to stretch hand of help and sharing, more than hand of war and guns. True, because at the end of it all, yes, war eventually brings peace, but at the end of it all, uh was yes, or eventually brings peace, but at the end of it all, we can resolve these issues absolutely if we address the core of the dissatisfaction. Dissatisfaction- yeah, or what do these people actually raise?
Speaker 1:as their concern.
Speaker 2:Yes, if people are poor, if people are not getting the right medication, if people don't have the security, if people don't have the you know the good education or even health yes, then we should be able to address that and see eventually how can we be able to address it fully yeah so that it is self-sustainable, we are able to see it through, uh, and and create wealth that actually lives. Yeah, so that's what I could say about that, and I think there are people who are thinking around these issues, I know yeah.
Speaker 2:But of course, in case you need my expertise, I'm here and I could offer developer solutions around this.
Speaker 1:I know Software developers.
Speaker 2:That's the truth and that reminds me that even working in the government, sometimes there's this challenge that is faced and you can tell me Bureaucracy is a big, big deterrent.
Speaker 1:Very tough.
Speaker 2:Of what stops us from achieving.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Is there bureaucracy in the government of Rwanda?
Speaker 1:So government of. Rwanda and this is the real truth and it's already known. Yeah, his excellence, even in his public speech, is a public conversation with government people. He doesn't promote below classy because below classy delays innovation. Below classy delays citizen is a request of the services, absolutely below classy doesn't just just just because I've I've heard you talk about this.
Speaker 2:They say delay of service is denial of service wow good or something is service denied.
Speaker 1:I will salute this. That's true. Service is delayed. I will salute this. That's true.
Speaker 1:Service delayed is service denied, that's true. So then he doesn't promote that. And the below class remember, when there is a below class if me, vivance I'm a fresh graduate from university and even I got the potential for doing multiple things when there is a below class class, it is 10 plus years of experienced people that we are going to work with can't give me the room to deliver most of the times right here. Yeah, that system is not available. Yeah, here, if you are very young, they give you the room to deliver what you can deliver. Yeah, and they end up being really good to guide us. Good advisors, you know, you are, you have a, these people. They are totally not to stop young people to innovate, but to guide them efficiently.
Speaker 1:But here in Rwanda, this is really somewhere you can't come and say that there is a bureaucracy. When it comes to public sector, people hold accountable. If there is a bureaucracy and someone go to Twitter and post I'm here at the ministry requesting this service and they are not helping me very well Immediately, ask the minister who can be fired. That's one. If the guys are attending public centers, public health centers and it is those things of Birokla CTC citizens raise, that that means those leaders go into trouble. You get it. So here at Birokla that's something we are even on the top of what we have as a country in terms of speeding up the services.
Speaker 1:You know, the service delivery in Rwanda is one of something which tend to cause some people to be fired, to be dismissed DTC, so service delivery, even the government itself. There is a government institution, recorded one, a governance board, yeah, which tracks the more for service a deliver across the country. Yeah, they are doing what we call services co-occur, dtc, where they are ranking institution, the holding institutions accountable, and we have also different programs that I can repeat. You know that's one of the homegrown solutions where readers are held accountable in terms of the services delivery. So there is a way around in terms of services delivery. Here mechanism is very strong to remove the below classy on the table on the list of what can delay the things here to happen and it to be delivered.
Speaker 2:Very nice, and I think we can borrow a leaf all of us so that we are not deterring progress. So please I see you're also a business coach- yes. Please talk a bit about that.
Speaker 1:The business coach came after I was done. You remember I did the business management. I bought it. I co-founded a social enterprise with some young people. I tried even to invest in one SME. It's not on.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn, you are also an investor In SMEs, in small SMEs.
Speaker 1:That's good, but with a bigger plan to build something big in the future In that space. So then I was already reached out by the organization from US.
Speaker 2:Victor.
Speaker 1:Medie-Yuji WhatsApp Audio, which has the program of helping refugees, young people, but with the opportunity to build some SMEs right. So they talked to me to be the business coach of the SME entrepreneurs and yeah.
Speaker 1:I got the opportunity to coach some of the young people who were doing some SMEs in either agriculture, services, etc, education, whatever Any different programs and any different sectors, and it was very good because I remember we were coaching 50 participants in the incubation and among the top three teams which won After three months my team was among the top three, so I was a good business coach, very nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I won't even need to keep doing it because WhatsApp audio, because now I got even a lot of insights and expertise to what I can keep doing in terms of coaching young people.
Speaker 2:Very nice. Thank you so much and keep doing the good job. Thanks a lot and fast forward. You started something that you are working on right now. That is Omurava. What does Omurava mean? Before you talk about Omurava?
Speaker 1:Courageous.
Speaker 2:In Kinyarwanda.
Speaker 1:Omurava is a Kinyarwanda word, but we want it even to be the Pan-African word.
Speaker 2:It means courageous in English Courageous, courageous. So what does Omurava does?
Speaker 1:So Omurava, with the spirit of Africa going to be the largest workforce continent in 2014 across the world, we still have two pressing problems. One biggest problem is a talent shortage in companies and organizations Skills gap and another problem on another side of the equation is the year of unemployment in Africa, and we said how can we solve these twin problems? We built a marketplace platform to source, test and match African digital talents and teams with companies and organizations focusing on the demand skills for the digital economy, tech, research and data, digital media and marketing. And we exist on really having two business lines we are supplying talents to companies and organizations who join the companies on a full-time basis, and we have a larger workforce of freelancers and consultants who are offering professional services to companies and organizations. And in two years, the idea came to be the reality. In two years now, we matched the 400-plus talents with 50-plus companies and organizations.
Speaker 2:Companies generating revenue.
Speaker 1:Of course. Like we matched 400 plus talents with jobs and projects in 50 plus companies and organizations in only two years.
Speaker 2:Chief, what is stopping you doing this at scale?
Speaker 1:So nothing. So the first three years our big focus was to focus on Rwanda and the market, but with testing to even service global companies in America and Europe, especially wanting to build a remote workforce, remote teams in Africa. But 2024 already, we are going to start building talent hubs in Kenya, Tanzania, with a big purpose to have the free presence in sub-Saharan Africa, but with, again, the big focus to serve also the global market, right, yeah, yeah, so, and the good news is that some clients are pushing us to do something. I'm already. Currently there is a UK company which is hiring five software developers with Murava, and they wanted two software developers from Rwanda and three software developers from Kenya, and already we are hiring from Kenya.
Speaker 2:Oh nice your country, oh nice, nice, your country, nice, nice, nice. So how do you develop this skill to be at par? Yes, what is?
Speaker 1:happening. Our approach was, first of all, to deploy more of the sourcing mechanism of the already trained talents.
Speaker 1:We do that with talent vetting program and activities where we we. It has a series of career interviews, project based, the test expert live interviews, where we assess technical skills of a talent, soft skills of a talent, language proficiency of a talent, and then, after that vetting, we are aware that this person already has to join our talent hub, ready for the job and, if not qualified, we keep them somewhere as well. They need jobs but they're not qualified. You understand, in one way, in the future not very far we are going to build more of now skills development program.
Speaker 1:yeah, only the side of our supply yeah because, at the end of the day, if now we have more than 280 jobs which came to umurava, but we missed the talents and the skills for those jobs, yeah, what does it tell us? It's not to give up to the problem, but to build this skills which are missing so that's the way we are now currently focusing on Italian to sourcing and evading on the market. Yeah, but very soon we are also going to be deploying training programs. It make for that.
Speaker 2:We bullied enough pipeline of the talents so please tell us what if someone was interested in joining this, or rather, what is the process?
Speaker 1:yeah, the process is they join omuravaafrica that's our first way to access our website, to access our platform and then, when they go there, they create the talent profile. After that, we verify it. After verifying it, we take you through that talent vetting system that I mentioned, which has different processes career interviews, project-based tests, language-based tests, soft skills check and then from there, if you are vetted, we start enabling you to land some job opportunities from our partner companies and organizations. And if not vetted, we sometimes tell you this is what you are missing, Please work on it. We can even connect them to skilled providers, but with our plan again to be developing those people very soon, Very nice.
Speaker 2:So which are your partner companies?
Speaker 1:So we have so far in the two years 50 plus companies and organizations. To mention some of the companies here, we worked with even a series of corporates, startups, ngos. We worked with the companies like Ratt a light, one of the biggest, the consulting firm. We any research and data you know work with you here, the biggest media house here in Rwanda okay we work do it for two companies which are in the US.
Speaker 1:We have a ready group, we have a so-called, so we worked with companies like you see, bk arena, by the way. You see BK Arena. Let me give you the story. Bk Arena has the agents which they outsource to take care of their communication department and that agent was once hiring the digital marketing specialist to manage the BK Arena social media accounts and the content development. And we matched the bk arena with a talent in only less than six hours. What? Yes, we tell companies we match companies with the africa's equality workforce. Only demand. This is what happened.
Speaker 1:Remember, we vet and tested people before. Yeah, when the request comes, already we have people ready to start delivering jobs or to start delivering a project. So they gave us the request. It was at 10 am in the morning already. We had the three privated talents meeting that criteria night. We gave them free profiles of the talents. Then it means for us it was that they had to do the validation among the top three talents to select the best talent. Next day they selected best talent. What it tells you that that talent is very successful is the people who know big arena communication ZTC. It's one of the best in the day in the country. That talent is being promoted after six months, after six, six months and whenever that edges, which work across the big arena, which come to recruit with us whenever they think about it really getting the top talent they have to talk to us so then we also have other startups here, like the startup called the carisim.
Speaker 1:One of it's known here, afri farmers market, one of the best startups here in rwanda, iranji again, it's another startup as well yeah and also other companies like, by the way, we delivered the biggest project for israel embassy here in rwanda as well. We have a Ministry of Agriculture and Animal Resources and we have Kepler.
Speaker 2:They are our partners and clients at the same time and the way you are speaking about Kepler with a lot of pride, it looks like it really changed you. It changed me.
Speaker 1:It changed me. Not only me, it changed a lot. 80% of our Keplus graduates are employed. You understand the results yes, 80% of K-plus graduates get jobs.
Speaker 2:What about the 20%?
Speaker 1:20%. No, they get jobs just after graduation. Those ones are delayed to get them, but they also get them later on.
Speaker 2:You don't start businesses.
Speaker 1:We do, I'm doing business. And already now Kepler has, and even one of the best. It's graduating from a startup move to really having a corporate culture. It's a company which is into water, which is called Iriba Water Group. She's a Kepler alumni, one of now the best outstanding companies in Rwanda Raise the global glance, global awards, global investments, big company here, right. So then there are good entrepreneurs from Kepler as well.
Speaker 2:Ah, very nice, very nice, good. So then there are good entrepreneurs from K plus one. Very nice, very nice. So finally, you are Westwell ambassador.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Talk about that.
Speaker 1:So VestaVet is one of the biggest entrepreneurship hub here. It was the best before NOSCAN comes. Noscan came with a lot of investments but VestaVet was the first to be entrepreneurship, be entrepreneurship here. So we attended one of their entrepreneurship program as our startup murava, yes, and we performed very well as a startup in the that time running were a part of vestavit and then even to me they were looking at, to me, leaving a corporate to a startup. I got some connections. There is a way I understand the things. Then they had the program of launching connections. That is the way I understand things. Then they had the program of launching the ambassadorship program of where they need some of the serious entrepreneurs part of Vesta to be even invested in ambassadors who can share stories, who can bring more, even partners for Vesta, who can bring more of even a global connections to Vesta. So that's how we become an ambassador. They appointed me.
Speaker 2:So what does that involve? Do you talk about it? We talk about it.
Speaker 1:We bring more members to VestaVal, we promote the programs of VestaVal, etc. Those are more of the scope of work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would you say, we need more innovation, hub, co-working spaces.
Speaker 1:We do, because, as of now, they are still expensive and they are still not fully accessible. However, we need now others. If maybe NOSCAN is more of a premium, vestavet again is a premium, we need others, which are essential. Where even these young entrepreneurs are struggling, can they be able to see where they can pay? You get what I'm saying. And these entrepreneurship hubs, innovation hubs, tend to attract investors, and that's why we still need more.
Speaker 2:I agree with you. Yeah, so finally, how many hackathons happen in Kigali?
Speaker 1:So hackathon is not one of the biggest culture here and one of the biggest character here and one of the things as um, we, we, we.
Speaker 1:I think we'll partner in the future, guys, because in the future, yeah, in october as we speak, because already part of the activities that we need to have taking place in our, in our talent hub yeah, there are the competitions, hackathons, events, career-related conversations, etc. And the hackathons here are not a big culture, except if it's a corporate which wants to build a hackathon, like MTN etc. But we didn't have to see the hackathons happening and to us as our company, it's one of our strategies to vet and assess people ahead of time when we can run a hackathon. We are already scouting the best talents, right. So it's something we have on our to-do list Already. Even the strategy is there and, of course, it's now ahead. But in October that's when we plan to launch our hackathon at Escape here in Rwanda, very nice.
Speaker 1:But hackathon is not a big culture. But sometimes big corporates do On the side. They line up for some events, yes, yes, and they just get organized them. But here we don't have a discurricular where you can know every weekend in a car, that is Hackathon. Hackathon is here once in a quarter. Etc. Not a big culture, but other. And you know one of the best thing but, best of it tends to learn more from startups. Hackathon is a for some programs yeah, very nice, very nice.
Speaker 2:So what I can see? That of course we're looking for partners to do these hackathons together with, of course, even after hackathon, does that pipeline look like? Are we solving for Rwanda, africa at large?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Are we building our own solution?
Speaker 1:at scale, solutions at scale.
Speaker 2:So there's so much that Africa's talking Akathon Also. You know Atlassian Akathons Nairobi. Akathons and many other language-specific Akathons that are happening in Kenya that could actually bring that vibration here in terms of collaboration and doing amazing stuff with you. So look out for that and I think it should be really an interesting collaboration, Collaboration, absolutely, and keep doing the good job.
Speaker 1:Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2:But, as we conclude, please give your parting shot to the listeners.
Speaker 1:So to the listeners and from the point of view where we started from, is that we as Africans are the best people to first really solve Africa's problems in the right context?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes solve Africa's problems in the right context, but we make and we put attention that Europe and America are ahead of us. We can drive our solutions and they come as facilitators, supporters, input providers, and then we grow together, mixing our African understanding of the market and even mixing their aid, access to capital, funding, previous experience of doing things. We can't clock things together. And another point is for young people Either being an entrepreneur being a professional employee oriented in the future, one thing I tend to tell young people is that most of the times, the first step is for all of us, it's more of being used, that the challenge based learning is the best way to learn, and then from there you can be a good interpreter, you can be a good employee, whatever you can be thinking to be, and that's probably the last thing I could mention thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Sure, and as I finish, I I think I feel like we are missing out in terms of proverbs. You know, wise people, wise men, african, african men used to talk in proverbs. They want you to think a bit. So our parting short proverb is Little by little, grow the bananas.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's really good.
Speaker 2:Little by little, grow the bananas. I feel like this proverb came from Uganda, uganda, the land of opportunities. Yes, the land of opportunities, the pearl of Africa, because in Uganda, when you think about it, there's a lot of bananas. The staple food is bananas. Wow, one of the things is that growing bananas is not easy For those who don't know. If you start little by little, you'll find that you grow bananas.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:And this also can apply in entrepreneurship. True, and without further ado, my name is Michael Kemadi, or MK if you want, representing Africa Stalking and head of developer community. Africa Podcast hosts. Entrepreneur Love of people and until next time. Thank you so much you.
