Impact Masters Podcast
We focus on the tech ecosystem by creating and disseminating knowledge. We tell authentic stories, acknowledging and preserving history, embracing civilization, and encouraging technology and innovation. In all this, we point out the impact and the actionable points. At Impact Masters we are disrupting the status quo: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
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Impact Masters Podcast
#40 - Robert Tumaini
What if your early childhood experiences could shape a thriving career in the tech ecosystem of Kigali, Rwanda? Join us as we explore this question with Robert Tumaini, an accomplished operations manager and data analyst, who takes us through his remarkable journey from the rural area of Majerajiri in Kigali to becoming a key player in Rwanda's dynamic tech landscape. Robert’s story underscores the immense power of storytelling in bringing Africa's untold narratives to light, offering a candid look at the possibilities within the progressive digital economy and youth-focused initiatives that are transforming the continent.
Robert’s vivid anecdotes paint a heartfelt picture of community life and childhood in Rwanda, where family and neighborhood support play an essential role. Growing up with a single mother and a strict grandmother, Robert shares how local businesses and small trades shape daily living, and how children balance school, chores, and leisure activities. These reflections illustrate the deep-rooted community spirit that fosters better infrastructure and mutual support, highlighting the vital role of a close-knit community in nurturing resilience and adaptability.
In the final segments, Robert delves into his educational and professional milestones. From the challenges of transitioning to high school and learning new languages to his transformative experience at the African Leadership University (ALU), Robert’s journey is marked by perseverance and growth. He discusses his entrepreneurial ventures, including a unique startup aimed at integrating food culture, and shares insights into empowering developers in Africa through communities like Africa Stock and Africa's Talking. This episode is a testament to the unyielding spirit that drives success in the African tech scene, offering inspiration and practical advice for aspiring professionals.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's me once again, michael Kemadi or MK, if you want. You can call me Kemadi or MK, if you want. I'm your host, africa's Talking Podcast, known as Retold and Impact Masters Podcast, bringing you movers and shakers in tech. And today we're still in Kigali, rwanda, a country of a thousand hills and many more. Digital economy, progressive mindsets, focus on youth, among as many other than leadership of this country is doing.
Speaker 2:And today we're just highlighting about tech ecosystem here in relation to Africa's stocking. Anytime you think about Rwanda, do you think about Arsenal, or what comes into your mind? Is it cleanliness, is it tidy streets, security, and there is much more that is coming across the country. So look out for Kigali, rwanda. There's a new airport coming up, I see, and as I was walking around, I saw some stadia being created or built someplace.
Speaker 2:I don't know Rimera or something. Yeah, yeah, I'm frustrated something. Yeah, yeah, I'm frustrated by coming up. Yeah, amongst many other things that are happening in Kigali, one of them is that the people are really good people. Don't take my word for it. Just make a point of visiting Kigali, rwanda, once in a while and see what is happening, because it's an exemplary country to be in Africa. So if you have not subscribed to our channel, please do so.
Speaker 2:This podcast is available in all podcast channels across the world iTunes, spotify, google Podcasts and your favorite podcasts and today we are blessed to have one man, the man himself, robert Tumaini. Robert is fond of using his skills like operations management, data analysis, business development and research to run organizations and businesses' activity into measurable successes. A resource and action-oriented all-driven environmental doctor. Continuous skills and knowledge builder. Continuous skills and knowledge builder, always learning execution. International business learner, data analyzer, project manager, business strategies and growth hacker. An alumni of african leadership university. Actually, this is where we are if you're watching our video. This is africa leadership university, located at Innovation Economic Zone right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:So we're surrounded by industries here, so you're learning by doing, once in a while, exactly. So how are you, robert? I'm more than fine, beyond fine. Yeah, you look fine man. How is it going?
Speaker 1:The introduction was about to make me faint. I thought I'm sitting beside some other robot or something. I'm fine. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:So, Robert, here we just tell the African stories, especially guys who are in tech and what they are doing around Africa. Right, and what drives this conversation is because our story has not been told for some time. If it's told, it's not told the right way. So we always start by you know, just knowing who you are, Not what I've just read. What I've just read is just for you know, looks more you know, but it doesn't represent who is Robert. So, Robert, where did you start?
Speaker 1:uh, so so, but I can talk, I can, I can start, you know, um talking about probably my professional journey ah, you will have all the time to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Where did you start?
Speaker 1:where did I start?
Speaker 2:yeah, so as as an individual, as a person as a person beyond the professional right, right, right, so you're really getting to know me basically, yeah, so uh.
Speaker 1:well, I'm robert to my knee and, uh, my parents gave about to be here in the middle of the town in kigali, oh, in a place called muhima. It's a, it's a nine and district called nyanrujenje, and uh, but I it's in a district called Nyarujenge, but I grew up in a place called Majelajere. It's the rural part of Kigali, the rural part of the district. And yeah, my childhood was fun. I was what you could call a quiet kid, but that gave me time to observe things and get to start early to get you know with what you'd call academia early.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I enjoyed my lifestyle and from there I went to school like any regular kid. Yes, yes and yeah, I'm here today. I'm here today. I've gone to schools. Now I'm with the best in the game.
Speaker 2:Robert, this is not your problem alone.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I've seen it with so many guests that have all stayed in that city. One of the things that I see them do is just brush off. But I'm a believer that any person you meet at a later stage in life or at any point in life, they are shaped by experiences of growing up that's the most important thing also something else.
Speaker 2:I've realized that so many people actually learn from the journey, not the destination. And given these stories that you're telling is to ensure that we show it's possible, it's doable, it, it can be done, and you're doing it, and not from the motivational side of things, it's just from the point of reality. That's why we tell it raw, right, unscripted raw. So, if you don't mind, you can tell me where you go to school. How was that like?
Speaker 1:What was?
Speaker 2:your experience as a robot.
Speaker 1:Right. So usually I would say the traits I have as a human being at the moment. I obtained these ones at a very early age, when I was still young. I was living with my mother in the area I just mentioned earlier called Majerajiri, which is the rural area, the rural part of the Nyerujanje district. It's not far away from here right.
Speaker 1:No, no, it's about 13 or 14 miles away, like a 14 minute drive from here, it was a fun experience, I would say, because you know, to me, I I knew what I liked at a very young age, which might be the correct things that I liked, or might not, you'd say, you know, depending on a personal preference.
Speaker 1:But you know, growing up I was a kid that loved, for example, reading. So I used to interact with other kids. I would tell them stories that I've gotten from books, small books that my mum would buy for me on her way back to home from job, and you know that shaped my love of being in the know, basically, you know, loving to know what's going on, which is where the love of tech sort of built up, because you know, from reading a lot, you start picking interest. You know in different particular aspects of the reading that you enjoy the most. So from there, you know, I kept uh, enticing myself. So at what age did you start, uh, reading? I would say so. So this is funny uh story that my mom usually tells people, but I'm not sure if it's really true, but you know so she usually says that I started uh writing people's uh the people that were living in our household and their names.
Speaker 1:I started spelling them as early as I was four, four years old. Yeah. So I'm not sure if that's really correct, but you know, let's go with that. But from there, what I remember about myself accurately is that I used to like to experiment with things, right. So, for example, if I hear something new that I don't know, yeah, I would.
Speaker 1:I would ask a lot of questions, maybe too many questions, just to explore yeah and you know, find out more, yeah, and from there, that's how I built up some passion, and, uh, you know about different things, though yeah, so. I love music yeah why?
Speaker 1:because I used to you, I used to use it as a tool to to sort of give myself more information. Okay, and you know other people might have different media to acquire new information to their lives. Yeah, and for me I I loved, you know, content. Content Like reading books, like I mentioned, and movies. Yeah, and the funny thing is, as young as I was, I wasn't really understanding what was going on in the stories, you know, because I was too young to connect to understand what was really going on. But basically, yes, I used those tools to sort of connect to the real world, but of course they were too sort of broad for me at my age, but I could pick a few things.
Speaker 1:So from there, people used to joke with me like my aunt hey, robert, you know too much. Please take it bit by bit. You don't need to know that Russia is fighting with Afghanistan or something you know. Please, you are seven, take things slowly and take small bits that you can be able to handle From there. So, yeah, but did you listen? Of course not, but you know they didn't like it.
Speaker 1:But you know, later it showed its own benefits you know, being able to, to love knowing what's going on and growing interest in tech, because those are the books I started reading when I when I went to high school. It's the same area, actually. Basically, I just graduated from primary school. I moved across the road to the school that was there. I would actually look at it through the window and I was like, hey, so the other kids are, you know, being driven to other districts and I'm here yeah yeah, just just, you know, you graduate from here and you, you, you just cross the road to the other school, across the, across the road, you know.
Speaker 1:On the other side I'm like, hey, this is, this is unique, yeah, but yeah, I enjoyed it from there as well. I started picking some new information yeah but I'll tell you the first time I sat in a in a high school class oh you, you, you went in primary school the same same place.
Speaker 2:Yes, basically, uh, from home to the primary school yes, so and basically it's just in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was in the neighborhood. My home it was in the neighborhood. My home, my primary school and my high school was in the same neighborhood, not five miles of radius, basically.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so there's something I wanted to ask about what was like the day-to-day activities in that area, or is it still? The same daily activities today.
Speaker 1:You mean for me as Robert, or maybe for the regular community?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I know most people do farming around Rwanda, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:People do tea farming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true.
Speaker 2:So what was it like in that?
Speaker 1:so the tea farming, so that's cash crops that's not for everyone people are making millions from that, but, yes, so, so farming is really, you know, is what you know built randa, yeah, what it is, of course, plus other activities you know that you've been able to read or hear about, like tourism and other things. But yes, we need farming of course. Yeah, you know, we are very, you know, the average family basically in randa. They do that and we were not different. And from there, but in the area where I was, there was a mixture of, uh, you know, small trade, like you know you'd have like a shop was a mixture of you know, small trade like you know you'd have like a shop, like a small restaurant, you know, with affordable food, meals that you know the average individual can afford, and also like a small pop-up shop in the neighborhood you'd sell sugar, flour, things like those you know, just to make ends meet and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But we're happy okay it was, that it was a community, randa. You know I'm sure you've been able to experience around, but you know family and community is something that is very, very promoted and we make sure that we take care of that. I've been able to observe that from my anguish, yes, but so if I talk about the daily activities basically, or what the daily routines were, yeah, usually as kids you know the kids, me and the other fellow kids that you know we were growing together with usually all we did was go to school. After that we'd come back to our homes and we help out with the home, errands and other house activities, basically cooking, if you are old enough to be able to handle that, washing your uniform you know, making sure you know these things that as early as you can be.
Speaker 1:Basically the regular kids things, but sometimes you'd have a hobby, like maybe playing football with your friends, riding a bike.
Speaker 2:You know you sound like you're more in town than in the village no, it was actually. Good that I know about the African village.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the village wasn't like too much of a village, if you will. But you know it was a mixture because there were people migrating from the middle of the city, from the middle of Kigali, to like other collective areas there you know, where they would like build similar houses in the lines here we call them umudugudu.
Speaker 2:There are people in sort of you know, collected area and they are living next door to each other so that you know different infrastructure and other means could reach them easily please talk more about that because, um, if you come to kigali, even where I am right now, you can see even the way structures are built are more concentrated in in specific places. Yes, is that like the culture way of?
Speaker 1:building. You would say it's more of a culture and also intentional promotion, because in Rwanda we have since a few years back. We had to use what we had and the only way to achieve that was to join our hands and to match our efforts. And people understood this really quickly. And one of the ways to sort of get the neighbourhoods developed as quickly as we can, but also efficiently, not rushing things too quickly, was to be next to each other. There are benefits to that. Kaka, you know people. If you're near each other, you can be able. If you're living besides each other, you can be near, you know each other, you can be able, you feel besides if you living besides each other you can be able to facilitate each other different.
Speaker 2:If you run out of salt, you can your neighbor's door maybe your cooking oil is done and maybe you forgot to go to shopping, or you know you don't have the means to go to shopping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'd be like and borrow it'd be like a robot you know my matchbox is not, you know it's, it's it's not handling my work please let me use something like that, so we have this thing we usually joke, you know, in kenya that hey, you know which means like usually we learn we lend to each other, basically learn to sort to each other, basically Say that again, which is like sharing salt, which is just like an implication for another meaning, which is like we are here for each other. You won't be left out and dry with me here. I got you Things like that basically.
Speaker 1:It was a very good experience to be in as a kid because it formed the attitudes that you would grow up with and it would shape you as a human being that we are. We are at the moment and we we grew up to be decent individuals, if you will yeah, you know so because we had role models around us our families, families, our parents, our elder brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1:You know things like that. I would say it was the average African kid childhood. Nothing too special, but it always depended on your choices of life. Of course, sometimes you do things that are not very welcomed yeah, so what did you do? Hey kaka. So as a kid you could, you could do things, but for me I didn't do things it's all right.
Speaker 2:What is that? One thing hey, okay, now that you're talking about it that you remember vividly that god you are beating I don't know, you got a beating when you're growing up hey I'm an african, so discipline is a must.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, ruthlessly I won't say ruthlessly, because you know it's what we call tough love, you know so I grew up with with a single mother. I lost my dad when I was very young. Yeah, you know, so young that I don't even remember. You know most of the things, most of the experiences I had with him yeah so I was there with my mom so and my mom, you know, wasn't affluent enough to be just around there. Yeah, she had to hustle to hustle around and she would move around the country not to be near.
Speaker 1:So I was at home usually with my grandma, so usually, and the grandmother I had is not the one that usually hey, baby, you know please, this food, please.
Speaker 2:What do you need?
Speaker 1:I know, she's like hey, please, you'll eat this food after you've worked for it. So yeah, we would go and fetch water in small jerry cans and from there we'd wash the dishes. After that we'd prepare food to cook and you'd sweep the house. So you learned to be responsible at an early stage Exactly.
Speaker 1:Of course we were not starving, don't get me wrong. But you know she made sure we knew what we were doing. We knew what reality was as early as it could be, but yeah, so really nothing too extreme. That I did. That got me the beatings, just the regular mistakes of kids. You know going to school and coming home late, you know too much football and you know you'd think, hey, I'm messy.
Speaker 1:But you know you would think, hey, I'm messy, but you know, really, not really but yeah, we were enjoying life, kaka so, but you know, also we had these things we could be. So there's this small uh circular, um, sort of uh, how do I say this? So they're sort of uh transparent and they are small and used to sort of use them to kick each other, like those things, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't recall the name, but yeah, even when, I was growing up used to yeah used to give the. I used to call them Galore in Swahili, galore, or Billy Goli in like like. What do you call it? Like Lugayamta, like Lugayamta.
Speaker 1:So that sounds cool.
Speaker 2:I mean that's Swahili, meaning that it's a slang. It's a slang, it's like an idiom to something else.
Speaker 1:You see from Golori we call them Bilgoli, bilgoli. Or Banta. You say that it sounds badass. But you know, whatever, no people used to like badass.
Speaker 2:But you know, whatever People used to hit them, we used to use our second finger from the right and it could crack. There are guys who are really good. They could hit them from far and when they hit it, it just cracks.
Speaker 1:So for us we had some times like you'd stand and you'd bend your other shoulder, but you'd stand and you'd sort your other shoulder, but you'd stand and you'd sort of bend your thumb and the object would be in the middle. It's like giving it a kick right, yes, and you shoot it with so much speed. And if it kicks the other they would say you've done what we call danje, which is like danger Something really cool.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the logic was, danje, which is like danger Something really cool.
Speaker 1:I don't know what the logic was in this naming, but you know it was nice. It was nice and we had fun doing this and we had what we called dogoma. Dogoma so that's where I would line them, like three or four, and the players each player would line their own there and the more you kick out of that small, that's more rectangular thing yeah, you'd keep them, which means you've you've gained, yeah, another beer and you would have the king of the crew who had the most so to carry around our socks and would stuff all those gained, we would call them.
Speaker 1:We would call them inga, which means a cow, but it's just a member of those other objects that we had.
Speaker 2:So if someone like hit the other, I don't know what to call them, but they're made of glass.
Speaker 1:Yes, basically Sort of transparent with little colours inside.
Speaker 2:So where we used to buy them is from these indians. Uh, I think they used to import them from some place in india right and I. I actually never knew how they were made until a week ago, for your information, hey, I saw the process and it's quite manual and light, because you know what they do they break down. So what they do? They break down the broken glasses, Just the normal bottles, whatever.
Speaker 2:And then they collect those glasses and pour them in a furnace where it's burnt until it's liquid, so that solution is poured through a tunnel, a small tunnel that shifts or limits the flow.
Speaker 1:Right, right, so where?
Speaker 2:it goes. There is a mechanized limiter that cuts certain amount of that solution, as it goes down to two big uh high on which of um cylindrical kind of spiral kind of stuff right, so once it goes there. That's what now shapes it or into a circular form circular, perfect circle actually, right, uh, but in this solution, where it's just pouring, that's why now they had the color, so they actually literally add the color.
Speaker 1:That's the most fascinating engineering process because sometimes they would like add like a very, a very special, like a very particular shape. And you see that it was tension. It wasn't like something random, like they would do, like like a chicken or something, yeah, like a face of someone. So that's how they do it.
Speaker 2:It's more of an artistic and also engineering process. I have a video actually I can share with you.
Speaker 1:I saw this on tick tock actually beautiful and it was.
Speaker 2:It was one of those moments I was like wow it doesn't look like a fancy engineering process it was done by indians. I don't know if a chinese do it or other people do, but these particular people were doing it and, what actually fascinated me, the person who was pouring the glass into the furnace was a lady.
Speaker 1:Okay, I wouldn't have imagined that.
Speaker 2:To be honest with you, it was the same thing for me, so I'll show you the video after the podcast.
Speaker 1:So you're saying some of these things are still favorable to favorable to kids. Still this time as well, I mean yeah these are kids and um.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that video was recorded recently, but what? I what actually I learned from that process that if you're really willing to do some of this stuff. It doesn't matter your agenda and stuff. That's the point exactly, exactly uh, it's just a matter of can you show up for the position?
Speaker 1:Right, we'll get to that later.
Speaker 2:Right, Robert, you had a really nice childhood so you transitioned to high school. Did you perform well in primary school? Hey Kaka.
Speaker 1:That's what I wanted to tell you a few minutes ago.
Speaker 2:The first day.
Speaker 1:I sat in a high school class. I would call it a unique experience for me yeah, because the first thing I saw when I entered the class. So so here's the thing. I went to school, I was. I was not in a boarding school, no, the school was boarding, but for me I was a day a day, so I would go home after every, after all the classes are done, so one day.
Speaker 1:So we spent like a whole week, you know, doing discovery. They don't onboarding us. You know showing us what the teachers are doing, who they are, to know their names and stuff like that yeah, then one day I come back to school and they have started learning a few things. They are drawing things.
Speaker 2:Were you late.
Speaker 1:No, I wasn't. But you see, we used to have these teachers. They would give one of the smartest kids in the class. They would give them their book of notes that you needed to take.
Speaker 2:And they would write for others.
Speaker 1:Yes, they would write for others, the ones with the most beautiful handwriting that you can see you talk, or yes? Chalk it was. You know they couldn't give it to me because my my, the letter t, one of the teachers told me was like a a guy who's who's removing their heart. I still remember that it was that much hey, kaka now see now. I'm thanking God because you know I'm using a laptop and stuff.
Speaker 2:Things are improving.
Speaker 1:There's no hustle if you give me a pen now, hey, you'll be praying for me after this. So yeah. So I went there and the notes were there, so we had to start writing, but but the terms the first thing I saw. So I went there and the notes were there, so we had to start writing, but the terms the first thing I saw was the title of the program, the title of the lesson, and it was chemistry. If I tell you how I pronounced it you'd faint, Kaka.
Speaker 2:Did someone ask you to pronounce it?
Speaker 1:No, but I was trying because, you see, I grew up trying to interact with things that we engaged and to understand things, and it always bothered me when I didn't understand what a word meant.
Speaker 1:So let me tell you one example when I was younger, just to bring it back to the childhood yeah, we had a small shop and we had these, these sort of a yeast that we used to put in either in donuts or these sogam beers, and it was called pakmaya. And in Rwanda we have what we call ibihekane, which is usually a combination of different consonants which pronounce a certain tone or a certain note. When you're saying things Like, for example, if you connect N and S, it's called ants, like you'd pronounce it as, for example, if you say insina. So you see, we have I-N-S-I-N-A, so the combination of those two consonants, without a vowel at the end. So those are what we call Ibihekane.
Speaker 1:So I was sitting there looking at this package of this yeast and it had, you know. So I was so young, I was like three or four, I don't know. You know, I was still very young before you even started, uh, primary school, yeah. So, hey, listen, I was fuming out of my ears. I was like so how do you pronounce back maya? But it's p-a-k-m, who puts a k before an m. So I was, I was fighting myself after like a week one. I was fighting myself After like a week of losing like five kilograms.
Speaker 1:I asked my mom, what is this? She's like no, this is not Kinyaranda. From there I was relieved. I was like, hey. So you see, it bothered me to a point that I had to ask you, grow up, you start losing interest in learning. But you see, I want to give you an example. You see, I grew up as a very eager kid and I wanted to know stuff. So back to the day I was in high school, the first day when I saw the title Chemistry it bothered me.
Speaker 2:How did you see it?
Speaker 1:It was my first time seeing such a world yeah, I didn't know what chemistry or whatever the word meant and I couldn't even go past it to read whatever was under it, but did you pronounce it? Yes, but the things I said.
Speaker 2:It looks like you never forgot that moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, usually we remember these things.
Speaker 2:Kaka, what did you say, do you?
Speaker 1:really want to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, not even for me, because there's someone who is where you are right now. Right, right.
Speaker 1:So just to give you context before I tell you what, because you're a friend.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not.
Speaker 1:So we grew up learning in enough enough in a francophone sister. Yes, we used to have to use French to get all the programs we're getting from, from elementary school to primary school until the end. Then, when we got to high school, we transitioned into English, which was quite an actual transition, basically, and so we were well sort of you know, mixing these things in here and they are making all these mistakes and stuff, and that's what I did. So for me, I tried to pronounce it because I knew it was, you know, because in, in, in.
Speaker 1:French you'd call it shimmy. I found out later so I knew how to recognize which was way in French or in English, but still the French particles were still in me, so I connected. That was like shimmy street something, because I had seen the verb try before.
Speaker 2:But you see, it's good that you have even got the courage to say that, and this is pertinent. There are so many Africans and there are a billion of us. We feel bad when we do not talk someone else's mother tongue correctly, the right way, right, but have you ever listened to them when they try to talk what we know as our mother tongue? Now that you say it because it's really worse than what we try. The mistake we make looks like a child's play.
Speaker 1:It is bad yeah, too bad, so please from today yes anything that was not your mother tongue, I think your mother tongue is right.
Speaker 2:Please, you allow yourself to make mistakes and perfect over time and there's no pressure. That's not your mother tongue and you don't have to speak it.
Speaker 1:So this meme that really resonated with me was like you don't owe anyone english, by the way, so it wasn't like suffered or something. They just mentioned a random world just to to mess with people's minds. Like you don't owe anyone english, so they they. The world that ended. The meme was so misspelled just to show that, guys, I'm free from this english grammar stuff. You know, I can just whatever. I can just say whatever I want and no one is going to hold me accountable. There's no penalty to this.
Speaker 1:You can just say whatever, because if you hear those guys, if they try to mimic or even try to repeat what you just said in our own mother tongues, it's difficult, it's a whole different story.
Speaker 2:Yes, so please going forward, don't worry about those things now you're in school how was that experience for you joining? Uh, I don't know from one. I don't know if you call them from one year or oh yeah, we call them senior one.
Speaker 1:Senior one up to six. How?
Speaker 2:was that experience for you? Did things improve? Did you now start focusing? Because I see also you also. You have some background in entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What was that like?
Speaker 1:Okay, so for me, I'm not like the others that say you know, I started selling cookies and donuts when I was in high school. No, I was what I could call freely. This is me calling myself this. I was what I could call a dummy.
Speaker 2:There's this joke now that you mentioned back at home, that motivational speakers say I started a chicken business with a feather Right, so you're not that kind of a person.
Speaker 1:And feathers were spouting. Chickens were spouting out of feathers. I didn't do that. That alone can tell you a lot.
Speaker 2:So you're just saying you're just another normal kid who was, you know, making all the mistakes, trying to understand things, but still self-driven by curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. So the only things that I could say that I did that were close to to being an entrepreneur or anything. So from, you know, towards the end of my high school, my primary school, to the early ages of of high school yeah the only thing I did was help my mom in her shop oh, your mom, mother shop yes, she had the small shop where I saw the pac-man thing that I talked about and it was bothering me you know, I had to.
Speaker 2:Even what is it?
Speaker 1:yes, to turn it, so I can't face the the world it was, it was messing up my mind so yeah.
Speaker 1:So no, I didn't do any entrepreneurship. But, you know, as I joined high school, I started, you know, meeting other kids from other places, because high schools here they usually transfer you to other areas. Yeah, when you are a boarding student, yeah. So yeah, I start meeting other kids who are doing sort of similar things to entrepreneurship. You're selling stuff, you know telling us during the, you know, when we go to for holidays, please join me and we can take a trip or something, you know, and they'll charge us some money, you know, and they would say, for example, from because the school was in Majelajere and would come, some of them they would come to for holidays and they would they have, they would have to come to Kigel because that's where their homes were.
Speaker 1:And we have these things that happen every year. We call them expo, so they are a show of expositions, and different companies, different organizations, are showcasing their and also selling their work there.
Speaker 2:So this Kagame Expo, which he encourages and he has built a good economy out of it, is not something that just started the other day. It's something that he has built consistently for over the years yes, for decades, basically.
Speaker 1:And it's a good thing because we might get to that, but a lot of companies are getting values from that and we get to discover things. And we have now some other types of expos where even international global companies come and they can showcase whatever they are doing, and we love that and it's a good thing. So when we went to holidays, some of these kids would charge us money. So they would say so, robert, give me 2,000 Rwandan francs, I'll keep it for you. It includes tickets, it includes yogurt and some walk in the park or something.
Speaker 2:And it's in Kigali.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was in Kigali and the school was still in california, but in the in the rural area of kigali.
Speaker 2:so we'd take a bus, a small mini bus oh, so they would still come through with that 2000 yes, you, you'd contribute, so you, so they would go to like 40 kids. Someone who has seen kigali would get this to even those who live there.
Speaker 1:But it was an experience. So you see, what we we wanted was like a vibe, like a collection of other kids where we get to to talk, just to celebrate that we are, we are, we are free from the books for like two weeks or something.
Speaker 2:What did you learn from that?
Speaker 1:a lot, a lot. I saw that. You know hustle is real first, you know the house, you can make money yes, you can make money from basically anything. You can say things that are not even yours, and people have money, you know, as long as you package the story correctly.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're going to meet these other kids from other schools, people you didn't even you didn't even see before, like hey, so these people have like three legs or like five heads and stuff. You know you'll be sold. Yeah, you know, just as long as you package your story correctly, people are going to buy your stuff. Just make sure you tell them things they want to hear or things they should hear yeah that they don't think they should hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so you know, from there I learned a few things. But yeah, yeah, and what did you do about it? Not much till late, till I joined university. Oh, so you just learned.
Speaker 2:You're like okay, you know I can't pull this move because I don't live in Kigali. Number one, number two I'm in school.
Speaker 1:Number three.
Speaker 2:I don't understand this process.
Speaker 1:But I'll give you two to one trait. Yes, because I grew up as a quiet kid, so I grew up as a quiet kid, so I grew up as a one shot. Yeah, because I don't have uh, you don't have siblings. No, I'm an only child. Oh, okay, interesting, so that's sort of played. Was that so lonely for you growing up? Not really, not really, because I enjoyed being spoiled no, if I tell you the stories of my house, I didn no. No, I didn't not at all.
Speaker 2:You grew in a proper, proper, discipline.
Speaker 1:So you see, just small, small context. My dad was in army, a soldier with some ranks or something, and my mom was no different, but she wasn in the army, but the movements she made.
Speaker 2:Is it true what they say about military wives? They're also military.
Speaker 1:Maybe even worse. Okay, no Better. They are more strict, more strict than the fathers. I would say so In my own experience. Yes, yes, from what I remember, you remember, I remember my dad wasn't there for so long. But from what I observed from other military families as well, the kids would tell you the same crazy okay, so not really terrible.
Speaker 1:but you you get to learn later in life that you know these were. You know these things you went through with your mother were important. They were shaping you for something else. But there's one thing that I've learned my mother didn't really care that I was one. It wasn't different for her If we are one or if she has like 10 kids in the house. You're still going to get the lessons that you need to get you know and the lessons if you know.
Speaker 2:She's so kind about it. Yes, yes, african mothers. So, robert, fast forward. You're in high school, you've joined Senior 1, senior 2. Was it difficult for you in terms of grasping the concept taught there?
Speaker 1:Yes, academia yes, but I coped up quickly. Yes, I was put, you know, up to speed. I know you're really smart.
Speaker 2:But the question here is when did that moment of like? You know, I want to really grasp my concept and keep them and be able to prove that this is it.
Speaker 1:So the moment of realization that I needed some help came in when I was the 31st out of 40 kids. The first time of the Senior three no, senior one. Oh, senior one. The very first one.
Speaker 2:And how did you get this help?
Speaker 1:So when we came back to school, you know my mom is not very pushy, she believes in me, she knows I can do things. She had been, you know, observing since I was a kid. She knows I can have some flop moments, but she knows I can always come back way stronger and I've been able to prove this to myself as well for quite some time. And, yes, I did, I did do that and I reached out to the, to the kids in the same class, you know. So what can I do? What do you, would you suggest? And I was mimicking, I was mimicking their moves, how they started. Smart kids, yes, the ones that were grasping things a lot quicker, yes, so what did you?
Speaker 1:mimic. First few things didn't work. I tried to to memorize things. You realize they memorize a lot, some of them the ones that were, you know, the ones that were the first ones in class, the top kids in the class, top three or top two, you know the courses of course that required.
Speaker 1:You know there were courses of course that required doing these things, because in high school here back in the days I don't know what they are doing now, but we would need to sort of memorize a few things Like, for example, definitions of things Like what is entrepreneurship, who is an entrepreneur? What is a company? I don't know things like that. You need to know the exact words back then. Who is an entrepreneur? What is a company? I don't know things like that. You need to know the exact was back back then. Now, since I understand things, I can always find a way to go around and find the right thing for you. But you know, back then you didn't really understand what the concepts are because it wasn't really practical. It was just notes that you were, you were copying from the, the book and you really didn't experience these things in real life. But I've seen things I can. I can give you like an explanation. I've read a lot too much, but yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1:That's how it was. So I I tried to to, to learn and try to mimic to to to, to copy what others did. Yeah, some worked, others didn't.
Speaker 2:Yes. So how did you finish, of course, your high school? How did that really go? Was it much better than primary school?
Speaker 1:Yes, high school really gave me a very huge shift in my perspective on what learning actually is, because in Rwanda the high school program is split into two programs. You have what you call ordinary level and an advanced level. So at ordinary you have all these courses that all of you in the country are taking, and in an advanced level you get to choose or you know they choose for you what specialization you can get. For me, in an adverse level, I did what we call TT's in Rwanda teacher training college, so I did do something primary high school.
Speaker 1:You know when, so when you, we are training yourself in high school. You can only teach in primary yes, oh, I see.
Speaker 2:So because of the level, yes, and the experience that you have.
Speaker 1:And the kind of knowledge you can be able to impart to kids.
Speaker 2:Oh, but I normally see also guys who get A's and then they go back to school. They were in as either you know mathematics assistant.
Speaker 1:No proper teacher though. Yes, does that also happen here? No, no, it doesn't. It's not really popular here, so, uh, yeah, does that also happen here?
Speaker 2:oh no, it doesn't. It's not really popular. Yeah, so you finish high school. Where did you go to after that?
Speaker 1:uh after high school uh here at early yeah so are you invited?
Speaker 2:did you apply? How did it hey?
Speaker 1:hey, the early ages you had to work for these things even now it's even. It's actually a lot more difficult now because now they are writing research papers and stuff. We didn't do that, we only did some written.
Speaker 2:Before you joined, you were writing research papers.
Speaker 1:For us not that much. So the research we did wasn't really. It didn't need to be proved. You didn't have to take months of collecting data and stuff. You could use other resources that already exist. But now it's different. You have to write an original research paper if I'm correct.
Speaker 1:So for you. What did you do? I had to do exams, online exams. I had to apply and you do. You do English proficiency wanted to to check your level of speaking and comprehending english, which I'm still struggling with, but you know, we've been able to survive it, you are struggling with english.
Speaker 2:Hey, you see, my english is short and, by the way, just to note, alu was not where we are right now. It was in town, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, close to town, rather Close to town, in a place called Kimiuluna, right beside the convention center and another building called KBC, which is across the In a building called Kigali Heights, we had the whole floor, the second floor yeah, yeah, that's why you did all your alu studies yes, uh, uh.
Speaker 1:So when we started uh, they were. They had plans to build this same facility we're in at that moment and they were doing their that simultaneously. So when we graduated, we graduated during, um, the very bad times of COVID-19. But this one had been completed. So we came here for the regalias and stuff like that and other you know clothings. We took some pictures for those who were able to get here.
Speaker 2:Others were back in their countries and yeah, for those who don't know Africa, leadership University takes students across Africa. I think, yeah, we did our thing. But for those who don't know africa, leadership university uh takes a student across africa. I think, uh, in most of the countries, if I'm not wrong almost all, all of the all 54 countries, almost uh and uh. What do they teach?
Speaker 1:really uh. So things are evolving at alu. But when we were there we had, uh, I had, I believe, three programs, if not four. So we had what we called computer science, which is now software engineering. We had other three programs that are now combined into one. One was international business and trade, where we go to learn about people management, business modifications and other important business particles and how you you create a business and turn it into a success. Yeah, know how you run a business and turn it into a success. Then we had another one called entrepreneurship, where you have to start a business, yeah, and turn it into a success. Yeah, so one way you have to manage one, of course you can start one. There's no. If even the computer science is you can, you could start a business.
Speaker 2:There's no issue to that I'm just saying what the programs are, but hey, I don't want to get a call from the chancellor. Uh four four years, yes, yes, do you think it's um an exemplary curriculum that most schools could learn from?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you ALU. The outsiders don't really capture what actually ALU is. Alu is a place to connect first.
Speaker 2:So there is a lot of connections that happen around here. Yes.
Speaker 1:That's if you pay attention to what's really going on. So ALU is the best place to connect for, starting within the community, because we are kids were so for us, I believe, with kids from like almost 42 countries, you see, like that's, that's almost everyone. Now you could wonder, you, you'd think you know these are kids that would just, you know, come and study and stuff like that, and you know you get their degrees and leave. It doesn't happen that you, yeah, you, they emphasize they they show you the benefits of you know connecting and getting building rapport with each other, you know getting to know each other. What are their strengths, what are their points of improvements? I was going to say weakness I didn't say that, you know you know things that you can help each other.
Speaker 1:You know grow better into yeah and uh, there were tons of those. There were tons of experiences and experiments where we had to connect and to get to know each other. And you'd wonder, and you'd see, you know, after we graduated, some of us are still trying to to build their careers but you, you'll see, you know in 10 years, fruits will start, you know, thrive, yes, exactly um.
Speaker 2:And this is very interesting because, uh, there, are people also, fruits will start, you know, to thrive. Yes, exactly, and this is very interesting because there are people who also believe that not much of education happens in most of the universities. Of course, there is what is required of you to pass, and to graduate and all that. But besides that it's also you know the people you meet the experiences that you have in the university and the ability also even to self-drive yourself exactly.
Speaker 2:Do you think alu is outstanding in terms of that, or from your experience?
Speaker 1:lu is very practical. Yeah, uh, not. Uh, there isn't a lot to learn in class? Yeah, and of course there are. There is if you choose to study, only if you only choose to get the information you want to get in in class. There are those you know. If you want to read, you can read, but the best way to to get the most out of alu is to practice what you are being given and that it's not like it's encouraged. It's there you are supposed to do internships?
Speaker 1:designed. Yeah, you are supposed to do internships in our age. I don't know if it's the same system at the moment, but we had to do four months every year of internship. So you see you, you finishing your four years with the 16 months of experience, which is a lot more than the regular, you no experience. You'd get another average University, which is was, which was good, and from there we got to connect as well from other, from other people even beyond us, beyond the community itself. So that's what people were able to acquire the jobs they are in at the moment. You know stuff like that. You know we grew a lot, yeah so yes, sounds interesting.
Speaker 2:So how many alus do we have in africa?
Speaker 1:I don't remember. We have two, but we have other sister companies, like uh alx, which you know has other programs that are way shorter than what we have here, and we have what we call the room where they are telling stories of africa, training professionals and stuff like that and other things, other different programs as well under the same uh umbrella where ellie is as well okay, yes so, uh, when we think about such a program, what do you say, besides even the networking and and connecting the?
Speaker 2:you know different people from Africa, and there's something actually I'll ask about these people because when I've been here, I've learned a couple of things. What is that one takeaway lesson that you got? Because I see, even after graduating, you continue to be part of the school and helping them in various things, but before then, what is that one key takeaway, besides the connections that you got from this?
Speaker 1:university. It's not to settle for less. So always thrive and strive for the hardest things you know, because those are the ones with the most rewarding rewards if that's even English. So you know. So we have this mantra in lu where it said that you're supposed to to to do hard things. Yeah, it's a mantra. Yeah, do the hard things do hard things because you know.
Speaker 1:You know why because the the biggest bets are the ones with the biggest rewards when it works out. So, please, you know and you have the. You have the resources to carry this out. You, please, you know and you have the. You have the resources to carry this out. You know, talk to people. You have the community here, people in over 30 countries. Imagine what you can do with that community without with those connections. You know, if I want to start a company right now in nigeria, I can call my friend pelumi, I can call my sister uh olua, you know so I have a lot of friends there.
Speaker 2:This is from ALU ALU.
Speaker 1:And imagine which stadium in the world would you find over 30 nationalities all at once, except excluding the World Cup? I'm not sure I might be wrong. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all I'm saying is it was quite an experience to have and staying with these people for four years. We get to learn, you get to learn from them, they get to learn from you as well, and you get to share these contacts and you get to build this rapport. You get to understand each other to a point where you can even start things together. I've done that with some of my friends. We started some projects here where we made a little money and it was quite an experience to learn how you can, you know, actually connect with someone that you know it.
Speaker 1:Four years back you would even think you would be able to meet or even get to to start things together with, so it was quite an experience yes, so you would say, el new makes African connection, especially with youth possible a lot more than that, but, yes, that's one of the benefits of joining a university like this at this caliber, yes, yes, and and even so, here's the thing that we used to sit as they, you know, as the first in tech the university and Kigali, yeah, and because we didn't have any footprints to follow, like we were the, you know, as the first, uh, intake of the university, and kigali yeah, and because we didn't have any footprints to follow, like we were just, you know, crafting our own history.
Speaker 1:Like no, no other program was before us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the university was crafting so you guys were the pioneer class that started.
Speaker 1:Yes, the class of 2017.
Speaker 2:so what?
Speaker 1:happened is we. We. We came to school in September some joined before in. You know, we had some other courses to take, usually in the language, english and other stuff, and from there we started. We kicked off the programs, of course, and we had what you called leadership core I hope.
Speaker 1:I'm not messing this up, but yes, that was the, that was the name of the program and we had four courses to do and, without being without going to too many details, we got we go to a time we had to go to the internships. When we came back, every one of us was saying how things are different, like I think I'm growing. I think I'm growing, I think I'm getting better, I think I'm not recognizing myself. It had only been like months and you know, you'd see that you've changed, you've improved a lot. You know and you'd compare to what you've been able to see in other. You know your fellow kids, you know in other universities and you'd be like I'd still choose.
Speaker 2:LU.
Speaker 1:If I was to even begin again. I'd still choose LU because I'm seeing what I'm becoming and things I'm able to do. Not to brag, of course, because not everyone, not every smart graduate, is from LU in Rwanda, but all I'm saying is, if you use the resources available correctly, which were numerous, you'd see yourself improving and getting to to be a version of a person that you would be proud of yeah, so uh at lu, uh, I understand also, it doesn't come cheap.
Speaker 2:I understand also it doesn't come cheap, right? It has also been a place that has been taunted Like even if you pay that much, which is much, it's not just that much which is much it still matches according to the experience of what you get there and the values and the way you feel day to day. But do you think also that keeps our smart kids?
Speaker 1:otherwise you benefit from this right, so I always speak to my experience. Yes, I can't speak for everyone else, but what I've been able to go through was that I won't say it kept anyone away because, for example, we had some, some products in place, like we had what we could, I say, which was income sharing agreement yeah well, you could.
Speaker 1:You could apply for the, for you'd call it a loan or something, right so, and you'd study. We some of some of us even had a hundred percent of the of the tuition covered. So just make sure you're getting your academics, you're doing your internships correctly, you're doing your projects correctly.
Speaker 2:You know, just get the most out of LU, as you can.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't based on how much you earn or whatever. Of course. If you chose to pay fully, it was, you know know, pretty hefty yeah but for those who chose to apply for the income sharing agreement, of course some cases are there, but most of us were, we accepted in the, in the, in the program, and uh, and we're able to get the education we wouldn't get otherwise. So so you know, but that's me, that might be me, so someone might have a different perspective, but to me I don't think anyone was excluded.
Speaker 1:Basically, yes, yes, that's a fair point as long as you are passing the exams of admission and you're killing it, basically, if you're smart enough to accomplish what you're supposed to be accomplishing. And, of course, even for those who are struggling with the even language they had. They had a program called language support program and I even interned in these, in this program, and I know, I know what was being done there. You know they're being supported, everyone was included. It was inclusive.
Speaker 2:Kaka okay, yes, uh, fader, so uh, would you say in that case that, um, if you, if you failed exam, it doesn't matter. If you, you know you could be able to afford the full fee, uh, and you know, you, you, you qualified for the entry level exams, but or eventually you fail, would you be expelled? What would happen?
Speaker 1:I'm curious to know about this because I I don't think I'm the best one to answer this question, but you. You are part of the program yes, I was, I was, but uh, I I won't say that. So they expelled, so the expelling would happen, but I, I, I I didn't get to to dig deep to know what was the cause, you know. But of course there are other reasons to be expelled, like disciplinary conducts and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But you know, of course I'm pretty sure every school has these systems where you you performing too poorly you can get expelled.
Speaker 2:I mean the reason why I'm asking is because I know some of these cases happen or whereby someone actually came in really qualified, but eventually, you know a lot of things happen and and you know they're not performing anymore, no matter which effort that, uh, you know, are provided. Uh, so I just wanted to know how in you, but of course these are discussions that it's you know we can continue. So I just wanted to know how, but of course these are discussions that it's you know we can continue to have, of course and even with the ALU itself from the you know management side and what plans they have in house.
Speaker 1:Right, but fast forward Chief.
Speaker 2:Did you work for? Is it Yoko, between your gap year? Did you have a gap year?
Speaker 1:No, no, a gap, gap year. Did you have a gap year? No, no, I got up between, in between the university, I started and finished the whole thing. I didn't have the time, I didn't have the patience to come back if I went now a.
Speaker 2:So this yoke, oh, are you working still well at.
Speaker 1:ALU. No, it was my first event and so in my first year I did an internship as a business strategy assistant yeah yeah and uh yeah, we were doing, uh, market research in rwanda, kenya and mauritius, and also south africa where the headquarters were so this was not rwandese company no, it was a south african company so people always works with international companies, not always Even at first year. You see, Elu has missions.
Speaker 2:You have goals.
Speaker 1:You have goals that you want to achieve, either by when you finish, by when you graduate, or also beyond. So it was my goal to experience different markets and how things are done. I got lucky I got the chance to join Yoko, which later came to blossom into a very great company which is very influential at the moment.
Speaker 1:I loved the experience and the people there were nice, a lot of support and many things to learn, because that's the first time I ever started selling things in person, door to door, which might sound like things that like practices that might not scale, but it shows you how you need to build, how you can be able to build a love, real love for a brand that you can create, a brand that people actually connect with because you're there in their faces and, of course, you can create a brand that people actually connect with.
Speaker 1:you know, because you're there in their faces. And of course, these are not. You can't scale these. These are not, you know, cost efficient, but you know. Or even time efficient, but you know they, they create, they, they, they lay a foundation for a brand, for for a company to to build them, the more efficient the scalable stuff upon yeah, yes, the the more efficient, the the scalable stuff upon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, uh, so fast forward you. You, as you as your second internship was, uh, working for you co-founded a company known as melos what was this? About so, oh, okay, okay right this is what you were founded with your alu alumni right this is what you were founded with your alu alumni.
Speaker 1:Yes, I had two, two friends with it I was only one friend and you know, you know how stuff work, so uh. So my friend, erastus kirwin, shout out to these guys. He's amazing, he's a genius he's a genius engineer. So we used to hang out. We were, you know, schoolmates and we'd hang out. We would talk about life and stuff like that, and once we talked, you know, on how let's make some money, kaka, we are broke. So I tell you yes, of course, students.
Speaker 2:Kigali Heights, manenos if you come.
Speaker 1:Lanshan Chava is 10,000, 10,000 if you come to Rwanda, visit Kigali.
Speaker 2:It's your understand when this chief says he was the standards. He was spending a lot of money in there and not remaining, not remaining, you don't even have the rito to start with.
Speaker 1:So we said so here's the thing I used to love. So I used to go to the hostels where the students you know the fellow students were, you know, living and they had a fully fledged kitchen in every apartment they were living in and they would cook and they would enjoy their food, you know. So these are different cultures.
Speaker 1:You know I remember my friend Musa Sharif is from Liberia. Please don't kill me if I'm saying this, if I'm mistaking this, but he would cook food that's so delicious and I'm like kaka. I would pay to eat this food and he would be like just enjoy your food, kaka, don't be too harsh on yourself.
Speaker 1:And it was a whole experience. And some friends from kenya and you know others, others as well and uh, and some food from people from um, you know some arabic countries and yeah, see this, this was a whole mixture of cultures and the feasts and the food, the meals they were cooking, were a whole different experience for me. So I was like I told my friend can we make some money from this? Because I know some people might pay for this, because the flavors and the tests, and they are very limited.
Speaker 2:You know, you guys have good food and you love food right I would say yes, but if you travel around.
Speaker 1:If you go to other countries, things are different and you get to enjoy different tests and different you know types of things like that yeah and uh. We later found out, you know, fast forward that people were not coming, so just to give you, so this melos was about cooking so it was.
Speaker 1:So, to give you a very short explanation it was airbnb but for food. You a very short explanation it was airbnb but for food. Oh so you would book, you, you'd you'd have an interface where you'd you'd book a meal and you go down with a host in their home. So if you if you're catching these very quickly it's not about food. Basically, it's about a community, people meeting each other, dating and all that.
Speaker 2:Ah, I see, but why did it fail? I think that's a good model in Rwanda.
Speaker 1:Yes, but I think we were wrong with timing because we started in around mid, no, no, somehow in the beginning of end of 2019.
Speaker 2:If you see what I mean, so around August, september I now that I think about it after this podcast, asked me about that specific experience because there's someone else who is building it in kenya and he's here with me yeah, maybe we had to share about around that idea yes, I had to share with one of our colleagues, grahamwanga, and it was like, hey, so let's find some money and start this thing.
Speaker 1:Then, when I was in Nairobi, when boarding for the company I'm working for, yes, but yes, we did this. People loved it, not for food of course, food.
Speaker 1:Food is good, you know, we love food, yeah, and, but people wanted to meet others and that was the most, uh, loved, most preferred feature. We saw that people were, you know. So we had this small thing where we had you had like a title, uh, your name and two sentences about you, and we would. We would monitor which pages people are spending the most time on, and they were not spending the most time on food, on the meals, on the menus. They're only spending time on other people's profiles and, uh, it showed us that, you know. You know the culture here is still instilled, as much as we'd like to deny it, but people still love each other. People are innately good. Yeah, you know. People want to know others. Yeah, if, even after all the bad shit, you'd go through with others, you still?
Speaker 1:want to be a good person yeah innately internally so yeah so that's what we found out, but you know how did he feel. You asked the timing, so we started 2019 and early 2020 you know what? Happened, but also the regulation is difficult getting the approvals, so RRDB, which is the business issuing entity in Rwanda and it's even hard to ensure people's safety, and people are people but Uber was able to do it and Airbnb and other companies curated it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right, but of course, you know, even Uber as a business has its own challenges. As you speak, of course, even Microsoft goes down sometimes.
Speaker 1:So all I'm saying is you know, every company has its own problems. You're quite an entrepreneur. You see, I'm not trying to bring, I'm not trying to put shade to any other business. All I'm saying is there's nothing is perfect out here. We can always get the chance to try out things and get guidance, instead of getting shut down If you're trying something that sounds interesting and you are convinced that it's interesting and you are getting feedback from the actual users that this thing is interesting.
Speaker 1:There should be a system in place to support you, not to vilify you. Hey, kaka, you bring things that we don't know here. How are we going to track our? You know things like you know. I understand. Of course there are concerns, but the approach is not.
Speaker 1:Shouldn't be the approach shouldn't be hey, approach is not, shouldn't be. The approach should be hey, stop. This should be like how do we formalize this thing? How do we work with you to support you? That maybe you can, you can slow down, you know, in growing and we can start, maybe with a hundred people. We, we, we, we, we do a testing of different, you know, uh, systems or how you can deliver these services that you want to deliver.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now we can, you know, track your, your earnings so that we can take our taxes stuff, deliver these services that you want to deliver? Yeah, and now we can, you know, track your earnings that you can take our taxes, stuff, like that, so that you are bad by the rules of the regulations that are in place or even they can even create your own. But things are improving. Kaka, yeah, now, sandbox around. You know we are early stage startups can, can you know, apply and you know they work with different entities regulators to to maneuver things and be able to to live. Yes, but for us, the, the main challenge was called covet. Yeah, and it was really hard to gain trust again, yeah, out of people to hey, you're going to meet someone to.
Speaker 2:You know, put people in the stadium when they do not comply. Hey, when you say like that no, it was so.
Speaker 1:You see, we had rules to follow, because this was a quite a particular, a very unique moment. So we had things to follow to be able to survive. Yeah, yeah. And you see, a country that's not as resourceful as the others, like rwanda, yeah, you cannot afford.
Speaker 2:The people are the resources so you have.
Speaker 1:If you can't maintain their lives, then what are you doing? Sometimes you can give them the tough love so that you can survive this thing, because everyone is selfish, but of course someone might say on the contrary if you talk about that today.
Speaker 2:it was just, you know, no here, no there. After all is said and done yes, yes, yes. But you know, that's a discussion for another day. Exactly so fast forward. You worked for various companies on various positions, but were they all tech?
Speaker 1:Yes, why tech? So I've always loved there's.
Speaker 2:Alora, Tech GetEquity, and there's TechStars.
Speaker 1:TechStars is just a project that I continued with, uh, with my friend. Yeah, uh, we started that after uh, melos wasn't, you know, working quite well and uh, you know, and we're having trouble. But what we found out about text us is that other companies are also having the same troubles, but some could be saved, so we started this. Funding issues no, just, you know business maneuvers, like business models, maybe changing from, you know, a brick and mortar business to online. You know, you know it was sort of a clinic for businesses so it would help others.
Speaker 1:You know, set up, you know, online, uh, presence, yeah, or even maneuver, even if they had, you know, some, some of them even had their own presence, but they were not getting the, the orders or whatever they wanted to get the growth they were the way they were shooting for. So we're there to help. Yes, so we had the experience. We had some some of the lessons we got from elu, the internships and stuff. Of course, we had had our level of delivery, but we did good how many of you from ALU were working for that company.
Speaker 1:We're four. We're just a group of people trying to help others, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I mean also ALU has this program where they have certain companies that they offer graduates or interns to, as it is, yes.
Speaker 1:So, lu, as for my understanding, when we were there, we had this program called Career Development and there would be a lot of opportunities you would apply to, which would be like job vacancies in different companies and you'd filter which ones you want and you would apply and they would assist. They had, you know, one-on-one sessions with any student that was interested. Yeah, you know they would give you career advice. They would. They would actually help you practically achieve. You know you, they'll help you. You know, find the companies that you don't do in turn into or to happen to turn with, and also companies you don't you don't to work with, and it would help you understand what the requirements are, the skills that you need, the capacity in those skills that you need. You can go and freshen up and you know, build up, stack up, you know your muscle up, your, your experience.
Speaker 2:Basically, yes, yeah and uh. Fast forward this year, you join. Africa is talking, and fast forward this year, you joined.
Speaker 1:Africa is Talking yes one and only how was that experience, steve? Hey, so if I tell you it was actually random, okay, because I didn't know about.
Speaker 2:Africa is.
Speaker 1:Talking before, okay, but I was like so you see, there was this wave a few months ago. It's still going. I'm not, you know, knocking anyone's game, anyone's hustle, I'm just saying, you know AI.
Speaker 2:AI was everywhere. Artificial intelligence yes yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was like just not to give you too much of the stories, but I was like first word, who is going to lead these technology developments that are coming up in Africa? Okay, because I always believed that Africa has its own problems that are unique. There are different from what any other countries in other continents are. Yeah, and they'll only be solved by us. Okay, you get what I mean. So I look, please, please, explain. So Africa, for example. Let me give you an example. Uh, you'll see, in some, some of the countries here in east africa, yeah, just let me give you a very dummy example. So you see, we have these, uh, architectural plans, yeah, when we are building our homes, and you'd find a house, yeah, in kigali, or like Burundi or Nairobi, with this pointed roof, if you see what.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:So you'll be like. But, if I remember correctly, these plants are for places where they have a lot of snow and stuff like that, so they don't want it to be too dense for the house when it's stuck there. So they build a pointed roof so that they can fall off, so like it has never. So that they can fall off, so it has never snowed in Kigali why? Do we have millions and millions?
Speaker 2:of these Now that you talk about it. I don't know if our viewers can see it, but I can see a couple of houses and they look like that Maybe you can insert some footage and stuff like that, Not only here but some other places as well.
Speaker 1:So we like to be make you know why. Why are we driving? Open pasting yeah like, why are we driving v8 cars with v8 engines in a country the top speed is 80 miles per hour? Like you know, your turbo opens at 90.
Speaker 2:what does it?
Speaker 1:do so. You're just buying it to conform with others, just with the norm that you reach, or you have the money. Ah, the good cars. You see, all I was saying is we need to open our eyes and see that and think for ourselves.
Speaker 2:We can only solve our own problem with our own solutions.
Speaker 1:Yes, don't do things because others are doing it. Find your own, a zone of excellence, yeah, and use it to solve the problems that are around you. Yeah, just don't go the routes that others are going just because they are doing it and that's what's cool, yeah, you know. Look into the future. What's going to happen. How can you get ahead of these? How can you be in the driving seat? Oh, how can you join those ones that are already in the driving seat and you join forces and you learn and you grow with them?
Speaker 1:yeah, and you know things go well you succeed yeah, life is a bet itself, so you always bet on yourself, but because, whether you do little or whether you do a lot, it's always the same effort.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you choose whichever you want so how did this connect with the africa stocking?
Speaker 1:exactly so I was. I was looking at this, I was like so in the future? For example, I was seeing these updates on linkedin. You know people saying, hey, you know I might not be. I've been an engineer, software engineer, for the past 10, 15 years. Yeah, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be, you know, doing this in the next two years because of the, the, the, the pressure, the latest developments that are coming up in ai and stuff like that, that ai is gonna take their job.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course, everyone was frustrated you frustrated in their own area. But for me I was like so I can complain or I can get on board. So of course, things happen, trends happen, but I was seeing the level, the depth of disruption that AI was bringing and I could see that it wasn't something that's going to fade away just like that With the stories of NFTs.
Speaker 2:These are very controversial things very sensitive to some people.
Speaker 1:So sorry guys, but you know yes, some people minted these things and they went to almost nothing yeah even negative value, you know so yeah. So I was like let me find a place where I can educate myself and join forces with others. I can bring what I know, yeah, and others can also bring what they know, and we can share knowledge and I can build up my muscle yeah and and be able to be ready, ready, and I'm glad I did.
Speaker 2:I'm having a good time yeah, so what is the future of Kigali and Rwanda in general in relation to you? Know what Africa's Talking does and the tech ecosystem around it, Right? So?
Speaker 1:just to backtrack, africa's Talking was created out of the love of software and creating solutions for Africa that actually make sense for Africans. Solutions for Africa that actually make sense for Africans. And that's what we are championing for and I'm seeing this happen in near future, where we keep solving problems for local companies, basically in Rwanda. We are partnering with a lot of companies and all of entities in Rwanda to be able to give out, to launch solutions that actually make sense for the widespread problems, challenges, stuff like that. So I see AT being the business pioneer in that area, where we give out, where we launch solutions that actually make sense and are actually solving real problems without importing business models and business maneuvers from other countries. We start from here, we build with our own army of developers here and we launch stuff that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's kind of fascinating. So, as we come to an end, if I was a developer, what would you tell us?
Speaker 1:I'd say please get on board as quickly as you can. Things are moving quickly and Africa Stock is going to be the driving seat and, at the moment, all of Africa. We have over 140,000 developers in our community and we are the most engaged developer community in the world.
Speaker 2:So to see what that means, what do you have in store for the developers, developers around.
Speaker 1:So we are hosting hackathons at the moment. As we speak, right now, we have hackathons. It's ongoing. It's ongoing and, besides the cash that you get to bag when you go home after you win, you get to join the same community that I was talking about and you get to share knowledge and skills with other fellow attendees and you have the chance to work. And also, if what you create is something that you are passionate about and you'd like to continue it, pursuing it as a business, we have a platform, we have a marketplace full of amazing stuff that was created by you know, developers in our ecosystem and other partners, and we would love to vet it the program or the software or the solution you're creating yeah, and see if it's fit for for the criteria of you know being on our marketplace, because you know it's for the best. Yeah and uh from there, plus more other benefits. Please join alu, uh, africa's yes yes, only the best.
Speaker 1:Yes, after ALU, you join Africa's Talking and we're good. Yes, yes, also the link just to plug ourselves. You know, community lariancom. There you can find all the information that you need. And yes, developers, you are welcome and my name is Robert Tum. Is robert um, anywhere you would want to find me and you can follow me on twitter on the links at the screen. Yeah and uh, yes, and we can get in touch and I can give you more update and what's coming and things will keep evolving and the best is coming.
Speaker 2:What would be your parting shot to our listeners?
Speaker 1:Please elaborate Kaka.
Speaker 2:What is the takeaway Key takeaway from this conversation?
Speaker 1:All right. So I would say you know, always learn. I'm learning. I'm never where I want to be. I'll never get there. I'll always keep the hunger to obtain more knowledge, more skills. Always connect with people that are in places where you want to be and also look out, Do things that people need. Don't just follow the crowd. Follow the crowd you can if it's important for you, but please let's create footprints for the others to follow. Let's lay foundations for others to create things that Africa needs.
Speaker 2:Very nice. Thank you so much, our listeners. That was Robert Tobaini, country manager, africa's Talking, and, coincidentally, as we finish, it's gonna rain.
Speaker 1:That's a blessing, I think it's been quite quite some time and the past months were too hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah thank you, god, it's a good day. It's a good day it is. I say it's a it's a good day.
Speaker 1:Were too hot.
Speaker 2:Thank you, god, it's a good day. It is, I say it's a good day, day of the Lord, day of the Lord, and as usual, I feel like we should conclude with an African proverb and our proverb today which is a Surprise me, kaka Word, surprise me kaka word of the wise, unless you call out who will open the door.
Speaker 2:it's more of like a question, but is a proverb exactly, and what it means is that most entrepreneurs are do-it-yourselfers Simply because they want assurance that things will be done right. The end result must reflect their vision and, truth be told, it's hard to trust others with your vision Right, especially when you are just getting started. However, when necessary, you must ask for help. The vision is counting on it. You won't receive help unless you let people know that you are in need of their assistance. And when you ask, doors of opportunity usually open. Don't get in your own way. Right, and this actually reflects the community spirit that Africa's Talking is approaching the developers with, whereby, if you're stuck, if you feel like you don't understand, they're a developer across.
Speaker 2:Africa. That could actually solve most of your problem. And, by the way, another thing that maybe most people don't know is that most of our questions or concerns by the developers right now, over 70% of them are solved by by the developers. Right now, over 70% of them are sought by developers for developers Right, so not just top 1% community just by chance.
Speaker 2:It's because you're intentional about it and we want developers to build scalable solutions Solutions. Until next time. My name is Michael Kemadi, or MK if you want, representing Impact Masters Podcasts, africa's Talking Podcasts and at Africa's Talking we provide usage, dms airtime and data and voice solutions, all this designed for 2G technology through API, integrating with all telecoms across the world. Thank you so much.
