Impact Masters Podcast
We focus on the tech ecosystem by creating and disseminating knowledge. We tell authentic stories, acknowledging and preserving history, embracing civilization, and encouraging technology and innovation. In all this, we point out the impact and the actionable points. At Impact Masters we are disrupting the status quo: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
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Impact Masters Podcast
#38 IMPACT MASTER JUNN HOPE: FROM A CURIOUS CHILD IN THIKA TO A TRAILBLAZING ROCKET SCIENTIST #africa #womenintech #engineering #podcast #inspiration
Ever wondered how a final-year telecommunications engineering student ends up building rockets for fun? Join us on the Impact Masters Podcast, in collaboration with Africa's Talking Podcasts, as we chat with Junn Hope about her incredible journey from a curious eight-year-old trying to fix a TV with a knife, to a budding rocket scientist. With hosts Michael Kimathi and Sylvia Jebet, Junn recounts her upbringing in Thika, the academic challenges she faced in Limuru, and how her relentless curiosity led her to pursue rocket science in While at JKUAT as she pursue a degree in Telecommunication Engineering. You'll be captivated by Junn's early love for engineering and her unwavering determination to conquer the tech world.
We explore Junn's academic adventures, from her affinity for mathematics and sciences to her struggles with biology. Experience the tumultuous yet transformative first day at boarding school, coping mechanisms, and the support system she found in mentors and peers. We also delve into broader societal issues such as bullying and education disparities, shedding light on how these challenges shape one's educational journey and career choices. June's reflections on her KCSE preparation, the importance of early exposure to programming, and learning styles provide a comprehensive look at the pressures and strategies involved in academic success.
The episode concludes with a deep dive into Junn’s foray into rocketry, DIY experiments, and the potential of young African engineers. Learn how open-source data and collaboration with organizations like SpaceX fuel innovation in this exciting field. Junn shares the iterative nature of engineering, the significance of collaboration, and the joy of seeing ideas take flight. Whether you're a tech enthusiast or just curious about the fascinating world of rocket science, this episode is packed with inspiring stories, personal anecdotes, and valuable insights into the relentless pursuit of dreams in the tech world.
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Junn Hope:
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Michael Kimathi
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yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Once again, welcome, welcome. Hit subscribe button, like and notification bell. This is us, truly, michael Kemadi, and we want MK, representing Impact Masters Podcast, in collaboration with Africa's Talking Podcasts, coming live to you this beautiful day, the day of the Lord, as we bring you Tech Movers and Shakers. Today we are covering Africa Tech, next Ecosystem.
Speaker 1:Today we are covering Africa tech, next ecosystem, talking about rockets, rocket science. We have a rocket scientist in the house. Guys, do you know about Jamaica? Today we're going to talk about that. We have two musketeers in the house. One of them is a host and the other one is our guests, but they're all fun to be around doing amazing stuff, but nevertheless, you're covering tech movers and shakers across Africa, highlighting their stories and telling their stories the way they're supposed to be raw. So, beyond tech ecosystem, we are looking on two ladies actually, of course, one is a host. I don't know when I should be. She should be the guest. Actually, thinking of it, she should be the guest at some point. It's a beautiful day, day of the Lord, here in Nairobi City, country known as Kenya. Thank you so much. If you're enjoying our content so far, please comment, subscribe. You know, show some love. It's all about Africans. Without further ado, I would like to introduce June, june Hope, our guest today, and Sylvia. Sylvia, please talk about yourself a bit before we go to June.
Speaker 2:All right, hello, hello, my name is Sylvia, sylvia Jabet and I'm part of the Africa's Talking Team in the Developer Relations and I am glad to be here, glad to be speaking to June today to hear more about what she's done and just hear more about her journey in the ecosystem so far.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, sylvia. I appreciate it. My name is June. As you have heard, I'm a student at J Quiet pursuing telecommunication engineering in my final year. That's just like the basics of who I am, and I also build rockets for fun, hey.
Speaker 1:Guys? Did you hear that For fun? Who does that In each continent, by the way? Nassir, as you hear that for fun, who does that In each continent, by the way? This is really amazing, if not fascinating, because if we are doing that for fun in Africa, I'm so hopeful where we are, but before we go to rockets, because it's kind of exciting and as well, challenging for those who are not. Where did all this start? June, where did June start?
Speaker 3:Where did June start? Take us all the way back. Let's see where paths have crossed. So I think my interest in engineering as a start started back when I was, I think, eight years old.
Speaker 1:Class two or grade 2?
Speaker 3:Are you CPC.
Speaker 2:Group of schools Grade.
Speaker 3:Class 2 or there about. So I remember one time there was, like a camera, not a camera, a TV failure at home and June Hope decides hmm, what a time to open this television set.
Speaker 1:At eight years.
Speaker 3:At eight years, I have no idea how to open a television set.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I have no idea how screwdrivers work, so I take a knife because that's the best alternative. We don't even have screwdrivers in the house in the first place, yeah, so I try to open it up. I end up breaking the casing. Remember the CRT TVs? These have like very heavy plastic casings, so I ended up breaking the plastic casing.
Speaker 1:So CRT are the TVs with a big stomach. Yes with a stomach, just for those who are like CRT, you know.
Speaker 3:CRT, the ones with a big behind. So I ended up breaking it, I ended up being beaten. So, so I ended up breaking it, I ended up being beaten. So I think, yes, proper whooping, but I think that was just like the beginning of it. First forward to now class eight.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, don't move that fast, so where?
Speaker 4:were you born? Sorry, sorry. Where were you born? Where?
Speaker 3:was I born? Where am I running? Where was I born? I was born. Where am I running? Where was I born?
Speaker 1:I was born in thika yes, oh okay, born and bred thika, thika town or thika environments um, thika town, um, for majority of the time.
Speaker 3:But now we live around the environment, but environment.
Speaker 1:But I'm a thika baby oh manana, oh mcconkey, which place exactly.
Speaker 3:Landless, just past landless for those people who know along Garisha Highway.
Speaker 1:Okay, and how was it growing in Thika Like? How is it in that landless place?
Speaker 3:Do I really have a reference? I think when you ask someone, that there's really like a reference that we can compare to. So it was oh, you're.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I totally hear you.
Speaker 1:So you've been born in Thika, grew in Thika, went to school in Thika, but at some point you were in Limuru, right yes?
Speaker 3:for high school. For high school I was in Limuru, very cold place, but amazing school nonetheless. So, yeah, I think that's basically been my upbringing. I've been within the Nairobi environment for a majority of my life, because now, being in university at J-Quarton, almost I'm navigating. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you were saying you did all your primary school in Ndika, right?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:So how was that like? Were you a troublesome kid after breaking CRT in school? Were you beating other kids trying to open their mendula?
Speaker 3:Can I say I was a violent child? Not really, not particularly.
Speaker 1:But neither were you good.
Speaker 3:I don't think I can say I'm a calm person, or if you bring war, I never start war. I never start war, but if you bring it, I will finish it.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a nice diplomatic way of saying.
Speaker 3:Yes, a very diplomatic way of looking at it.
Speaker 1:Have you ever gotten in trouble in primary school? I mean in trouble.
Speaker 3:No, not that I can, no, no, but one time I almost did. One time I almost did, but I did not.
Speaker 2:So see, here I am so you were just mischievous at home, just breaking things at home, but in school you're calm. Yeah, You're two-sided.
Speaker 3:Actually there are very many people who would think that I'm a very calm person, very collected, very Until you meet me and then you see I'm always tinkering things and I'm always trying to break things and just open things.
Speaker 1:But is that out of curiosity?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just curiosity. If something, unfortunately, if something is new and I don't know how it works and.
Speaker 1:I can't google it but when you broke the TV, were you really clear that I want to be an engineer? Or even you didn't know what that leads to.
Speaker 3:I didn't actually know. I didn't even think of it. I always wanted to be a lawyer. Actually, people who knew me from high school going back always knew I wanted to be a lawyer. Actually, people who knew me from high school going back always knew I wanted to do law, so I didn't really think about the implication of how the small things I was doing was building up to now where.
Speaker 3:I am right now. Until later, until after high school. That's when I was like, oh, I might be good at breaking stuff, I could make money or make a career out of breaking stuff and tinkering around with things, but it had not really come to me that it's something that's.
Speaker 1:Why law?
Speaker 3:I have an aunt who's a lawyer.
Speaker 1:Oh, your aunt is a lawyer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have an aunt who's a lawyer and she was very Influential, oh, okay, so I was just like I want to be like Auntie Sun, so just for that, actually just for that. And then the 2017 elections happened and I remember, I remember Orengo. Was it Orengo?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Came out with this. It was like a 600 page thing full of evidence and I'm like I'm not going to be doing that. No, count me out, count me out, count me out.
Speaker 1:So that's when you gave up on law.
Speaker 3:I actually don't think I gave up per se, but I think towards finishing high school is when, like, reality started setting in, kicking in that law might be something I've wanted to do for such a long time, but not intrinsically what I want to do, but because of factors around me that have encouraged me to do law. So, yeah, I think and I was very grateful for my mom and my family they gave me the support to tinker around, to figure out things. There was no you should do this, it was just you want to do music, it's fine, go do it if you want it. So I think that also gave me the room to find my way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and June. By the way, of course, for engineers, mathematics is like the core. How was mathematics, you know, growing up, especially in primary school. In primary, it's not that difficult it's not that much. But of course you have to have some sense of liking and loving it and fascinated at the same time, to be able to be interested beyond one plus one or subtracting and adding kind of calculations. So how was that journey for you to really love mathematics?
Speaker 3:I think, if I'm being honest, I have been lucky. I can say it that way Math was. It was not that hard for me, at least In primary school.
Speaker 1:You have to be clear about primary school. I have seen primary school.
Speaker 3:So I don't think it actually Took much for me. If anything, I generally don't think I put in a lot of effort in primary school. So I don't think it actually took much for me. If anything, I generally don't think I put in a lot of effort in primary school.
Speaker 1:Were you playful? Were you doing other things Like drama?
Speaker 3:I was in music festival at one point For, I think, a semester or something of the sort.
Speaker 1:In primary school.
Speaker 3:Yeah, primary school, they have semesters Like a term.
Speaker 1:Oh, a term, oh God.
Speaker 3:He's looking at me and I'm like wondering what have I said wrong?
Speaker 1:Nowadays I'm not sure, you know, nowadays with the CBC I'm not so sure. And homeschooling.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, true, I'm not so sure what.
Speaker 1:And actually the other day there's a day I gave a joke about the Okampo. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Okampo.
Speaker 3:Okampo 6.
Speaker 1:Yeah like this was the joke so it was in a hackathon and I was like Ah umeponea, those who understand Kiswahili. So there was this team, which was late to present, and everyone wanted them to present for some reason, so I said umepone Abasha Okampo. And there was this silence. No one got the joke and I realized, by the way, I'm dealing with people who maybe are born in 2097 and maybe by the time Okampo was happening they were too young to really be in the know.
Speaker 3:Let me ask did people get the joke, or was the joke not funny? Good question.
Speaker 1:She was there anyway, I think people had the joke.
Speaker 2:It's true, the majority of the demographic was a younger one and we were quite young, but we remember, we have an idea.
Speaker 1:That joke. You have to know really when that Ocampo 6. Like your name was mentioned, it was not a joke Because that means you go to ICC and all that. So of course that's why now I cannot assume anything that someone say. If someone says semester, I have to be clear. Maybe nowadays people learn in semester. I know there are schools that actually primary school that people go like per semester and when there's summer holiday they go for summer holiday like the international curriculum. So I can't actually assume when.
Speaker 1:I say semester by mistake, I have to be sure. And of course here we keep it raw. So feel free to explain where I need be.
Speaker 3:By semester. I think it's because I'm currently in the semester program.
Speaker 1:So I think it's because I'm currently in the semester program.
Speaker 3:So I think it's just like yeah.
Speaker 1:So sciences was good or you didn't also struggle. It was like you know you guys can do bring some hard ex.
Speaker 3:You know I think it's important to note I really struggled with science, particularly and afterwards in high school, biology. You didn't understand biology I remember I was thinking for a while.
Speaker 1:But you're taking us so fast, june.
Speaker 3:Oh sorry, sorry, sorry In primary school sciences were not so bad, but there were some aspects that were not so interesting to me. So things like plants, the human body, it was like, yeah, wasting my time Give me. I didn't like it, I really didn't like. You know, there's just like some sections, so the sections I didn't like, the others that I really loved. You know the physics aspect of it. Yeah, Making work easier, I'm like, yes, please you need to go to the lab.
Speaker 1:Were you remaining in the lab, especially in high school, after a physics lab session? No?
Speaker 3:Lab sessions. That's a tricky one, because we had compulsory lab sessions in Form 4 for all of us, so there was really no alternative to not go to the lab. I think I was a physics baby. I think I was a physics baby. I think I was a physics cat.
Speaker 1:It was like a teacher's pet at some point you really got it like end to end.
Speaker 3:I think I'm making it a little bit too simplistic. I'm making it seem like I had it easy. I did not, especially for the first two years of high school. But yeah, sciences were not that tough, especially after I dropped biology.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, let me go a bit deep. You are in primary school. That is still in Thika, right?
Speaker 3:Which one is it Thika Primaries?
Speaker 1:And for you it's just having fun. Did you have fun with your KCP? You know what I'm asking.
Speaker 3:I did not have fun with my KCP.
Speaker 1:But you passed.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Really well.
Speaker 3:I went to a good school. It's telling.
Speaker 1:It wasn't bad. It was really good 't bad. It was really good, not bad, it was good, it was good. You know what I say, right? I want to seem humble to the people watching it doesn't break a bone to tell a girl who is in the same school that you are in. You said it Thika Primary School, thika Primary that it's possible to get these kind of marks.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I don't love exams. I don't like that people are judged based on just exams.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, true.
Speaker 1:But also it is what it is True. So if you don't get certain marks, it tells something about the next level, right? So when we do this podcast, we like to keep it really real that, okay, I got this and that's what took me to this, so that if I'm in the primary, I know for sure for me to become a rocket scientist it has to start really early, Not only loving things and breaking things, but also translate to like if I'm tested about things. I'm able to prove that I understand these things.
Speaker 3:Yes, makes sense.
Speaker 1:I think that's the approach.
Speaker 3:Alright.
Speaker 1:So, if you don't mind, it might encourage someone.
Speaker 3:Okay, I got 525.
Speaker 1:And that's what you're saying, eh.
Speaker 3:It was not bad, that's.
Speaker 1:Alliance Max. But in a way where you went to is the same as Alliance. So, yeah, thank you for sharing. So when you got this, were you expecting it or did the track record show that this is it? Like you know, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 3:I was actually disappointed. I need to get that reaction. I needed to get that reaction. I needed to get that reaction. I wanted greater marks.
Speaker 1:Like 499?.
Speaker 3:No, I was not that ambitious. But you know, I knew the cutoff point because I really wanted to go to Allianz. I knew what Allianz cutoff point was and I fell short of it by, I think, a mark oh.
Speaker 1:So 430 and above is what you get.
Speaker 3:It was 427 at the time, I think.
Speaker 1:But you got 4? From the previous year, 25. 25. Yeah, so it was disappointing.
Speaker 3:I was just like, oh, I can't actually.
Speaker 1:So Alliance was like it was.
Speaker 3:It was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we went to. What's the name of the school?
Speaker 3:Loretto, loretto, limuru, loretto.
Speaker 1:Limuru. How was that day? One Like where were you, you know?
Speaker 2:All the new things new box, new uniform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know if girls used to call their new shirts maziwa, but when we went to our school, our shirts were referred as maziwa school. Our shirts were referred as maziwa. Do you know why? Because they're too white and you lose them the first week. So, like when, from two, from three, they look at the new, what do they call it? These are terms they use nowadays when you say nisisi tuko, when you open the camera, clothes, the mtumba clothes, yeah, the new bail has arrived.
Speaker 1:So monos, which we used to be called. I don't know if you guys heard that and I've realized over time I should not assume this thing, because I realize when there are places people don't even know what monolization is.
Speaker 1:Whereas where I went to school I was like schoolers are like ah, that was like rite of passage. And then, of course, a new bill has arrived. First week you lose all your new stuff, especially shirts and pullovers, and there are people who actually come and say you know what? There's a funky happening. You guys used to go to funky. There's a funky happening somewhere. Can I borrow your shirt? Do you look the same size? And then when you go to ask for the shirt back, you might even get a beating or something. It's like that never happens.
Speaker 4:So it's like silent.
Speaker 1:And when I look at the world out here nowadays, I realize also these people are in the society they steal from you right.
Speaker 4:On your eyes and you can't do anything.
Speaker 1:So, and I don't know why I've gone that deep, but ideally, when I think about it, some of the things that actually happen in the society they do not start from when people graduate or when people?
Speaker 3:finish school.
Speaker 1:Some that actually has a pattern over time. So day one. How was it You're in Loretto.
Speaker 3:Day one I'm in my bright red skirt, bright red sweater, because you could literally see us from afar. Yeah, I remember, I got disappointed. Yeah, what happened? We went to Limuru High School first. We passed by Limuru High School first. Limuru girls, rather, they went to.
Speaker 1:Loretto. We passed by Limuru High School, first Limuru Girls rather, then we went to Loretto. So there's Limuru and Loretto. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:There's Limuru, which is not too far from Loretto, so I went to Limuru first and the school is very. What's the name for this word? It has an ambience. It's like very aesthetically pleasing.
Speaker 1:You know, you know and I know you are good in composition. Can you please paint that picture for us, for those who have never seen a school close to tea plantation? Right because when I go to Kericho, when I'm going to Kisumu, when I get to Kericho I feel like, ah, should I spend a day because it's really green. I assume also the air is fresh and coming from Nairobi, okay, which is okay. I assume most of the air is fresh and coming from Nairobi, which is coming from Thika going to the Muru.
Speaker 4:It's the same experience.
Speaker 1:It's really refreshing. I feel like I'm back.
Speaker 3:Go ahead All right. So, as I was saying Again, as you're saying, it's very lush, very green, very beautiful. And then I think, if I'm not wrong, it's very lush, very green, very beautiful. And then I think, if I'm not wrong, it's on a hill so you can see, or rather towards a hill, so you can see a lot of greenery around it, and not just the greenery but even the outlay of the school. It's not. I would later come to see chaos in the next school. So this one was very peaceful. It seemed systematic, or probably, I don't know. I think that was what drew me to it. From the entry there's just like a driveway literally driving towards the school and the like. Then we go to the next school.
Speaker 1:Which one is that Limuru? They're just neighboring? Yeah.
Speaker 3:They're not too far from each other. We were dropping something at Limuru Girls and then going to Loreto, so from where I was coming from, it was easier to go to Limuru Girls first and then go to Loreto.
Speaker 1:You had a person there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we did. I think it was a cousin of mine there, person there. Or yeah, yeah, we did um, I think it was a cousin of mine.
Speaker 4:There's some packages the mother had sent my through my mom, so just like I just dropped it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we get there. I see that. Then we leave for school and you get to loretto and just chaos again. I think it was because it was reporting day what was the chaos about? There were so many people Again understand that I'd come from a very, I'd come from a private school, I'd come from a very secluded like area or reporting. We didn't have anything like reporting days because I had not gone to boarding school.
Speaker 3:So, it was just very me, myself and a very small number of people. So now you're meeting throngs of people.
Speaker 1:You're meeting so many people.
Speaker 3:And I'm just like what are all these people doing here? What's going on? It was like a lot of chaos. There was a lot of chaos.
Speaker 1:But I thought you loved the chaos to some extent.
Speaker 3:I do. I do to some extent, but I don't think I'd prepared myself, I'd been prepared psychologically or I'd prepared myself psychologically for all the people I saw, or like the whole experience and then the reality of oh shoot, I'm actually.
Speaker 4:I'm actually going to be left here my mom is going to go.
Speaker 3:You trust me to keep myself alive through this. Wow, I don't trust me to keep myself alive through this, wow.
Speaker 4:I don't trust me.
Speaker 3:So yeah, and it is that I think the first few weeks were just crying days. I remember I went to the dining room, went to the dining hall, and there was Ugali that was being served for supper that night and Ugali wasn't. Again, it's a public school, so you're really not expecting the best kind of facilities or anything, not to say that they did not have good facilities, just you know. So I remember I was cooked for Ugali and you could literally see the flour I did not eat that night. I did not eat that night.
Speaker 1:I thought they said that's a well-prepared Ugali.
Speaker 3:This was your first night. This was my first night.
Speaker 1:Thank God for snacks okay so you guys had enough snacks to survive. Oh yeah, we did?
Speaker 3:we had comfort food. You can't be living in a cold place without being comforted. There has to be some reparations for it, okay makes a lot of sense so the two were they like godfathers, godmothers.
Speaker 1:There has to be some reparations for it. Okay, makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so the two were there like godfathers, godmothers, assigned to you to just show you around. Like you know, what do they call it in the working world? Work buddy. It's also in the working, but apparently even in the job places there's work buddy who shows you. Someone to work with you when you go to conferences. There's conference buddy who shows you around, so did you have.
Speaker 3:I was actually a school mom.
Speaker 1:Okay, so did you have one.
Speaker 3:I did, I did. She was very, very helpful. She actually really held me through. It was really the first year she did so I remember she actually met me on the first day she came. She helped me carry things from wherever okay to traditions. After you, when you inform two, you'd help your kids settle. So she helped me carry things. She had me settle down. My mom left. She actually, I think, was the one who unpacked my things. I was just crying, so I'm sitting on someone else's bed.
Speaker 4:I'm like oh okay, I was just crying.
Speaker 3:So I'm sitting on someone else's bed.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm going to go to bed, oh, okay, that's what it demands, huh.
Speaker 3:So she actually, she actually she's very, very helpful, she's very, very insightful, she just it was very, very amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So day one in class and now you have to. Did your teachers dictate notes, or was it written on the board?
Speaker 3:Did they? Did they even give us notes in the first place? No I think they used to give notes to us as assignments.
Speaker 1:Okay, go and write them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think we ever had especially Do I remember? I don't think we had specifically dictated notes.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know you're making it sound like it was the 1990s or 80s, but it's just the other day.
Speaker 3:It's just the other day, it's literally less than five years ago.
Speaker 1:Okay, you have a very good memory. So the reason why I've asked this, is because I think education is changing. Actually, they're doing an overhaul and I feel like, as much as we're doing the overhaul, we should actually retain some of the things, because it helps so much later in life, like dictation when people dictate to you, you are able to comprehend very fast as you take notes. You're able to comprehend what is going on, because even in university that's what happens mostly.
Speaker 1:But I'm assuming where people have to do most of the things practically and there's no other session. But I don't know how CBC is like. Maybe with time we'll get to know how it is like. You'll find some of those things can help you in different ways. But I'm not saying altogether that.
Speaker 4:CBC is bad or something.
Speaker 1:It's just that I'm thinking about it now and I'm like maybe people can't write things when someone is speaking, then there might be a gap, because you have to either comprehend when they're speaking and maybe take note later, or they do something out of that, or you don't get it, which which means if you don't get it, then you miss out, yeah, and and so many things can happen out of that um, so you go to class, you they're like, how many subjects?
Speaker 3:seven, eight no, we had 13 13, including french and german we did not have German, I didn't do French.
Speaker 1:But there was French. Yeah, there was, there was French Spanish.
Speaker 3:There was just French as a foreign language and music arts home science agriculture, another one I forget, I can't remember, and computer.
Speaker 1:And business. Those are the options. Yeah, did you take computer? Yeah, I forget, I can't remember. And computer and business. Those are the options. Did you take computer?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:Did you code?
Speaker 3:No, I did macros.
Speaker 1:Setting up macros. I set up macros. That was the closest you ever got, and how did you find it?
Speaker 3:I did not like Macross but I liked the, especially in Form 4, because I remember that's when we used to do projects. You guys were in the same school, no.
Speaker 2:What school were you in? I was in my girls' endurance.
Speaker 1:But it sounds like they all fought the same fight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is for sure. So I think doing project is actually when we got to really put like the rubber met the road then, because most of it previously had been theoretical. Some bit of word here Excel, you know. So you know having to build your own project from scratch and thinking about how you want your views to look like, how you want your interaction, or what we now know as to be UI, ux, to look like and how you want for it to interact, or the kind of processing and the kind of thought process you're putting behind it. I really liked that process. I really really did. I didn't like having to use macros. There were actually people who used to use JavaScript, I know In high school.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know one of really good, good software engineer Right now she moved to US. They own a small jet, not jet per se, five-wise.
Speaker 3:Okay, you are in drogues. I have no idea.
Speaker 1:They're small planes.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:But they move a lot like from US to Bahamas. None of you know her. Anna Masila yeah, she also went to Limuru. Yeah, so she was really good in Ruby. She also went to Limuru. Yeah, so she was really good in Ruby. When I met her she was, I think, either completed high school or she was in university. I'm not so sure but she joined. Nandela and then everything else happened. So when you say people are doing JavaScript, then for sure I agree with you.
Speaker 3:There are some guys who are I know and I feel like it really defined and it really created this difference, especially now when you come to university. But I know this is now jumping the gun. There are people who had already had a head start, Because I remember there's someone in my class who used JavaScript and I'm like I struggled with macros you were using JavaScript. Okay, I didn't even know that was an option. Exactly, he didn't even know that was an option, so yeah there are people you should not assume things.
Speaker 1:There are people who also have instructors at home for sure like, maybe your dad says okay, here is a guy I'll be paying, maybe for the next three months over the holiday, yeah, by the way, maybe for the next three months over the holiday, but these are the ones.
Speaker 1:I actually need to give a disclaimer for those who are listening. So if you are on holiday, like most of you are, and you're returning in September, don't think everyone is just chilling and watching Netflix as you do. There are people who actually right now are taking courses in Java, JavaScript, music, piano, guitar and everything else Python. Yes, as you said, People are participating actively in hackathons building stuff, meeting people, networking.
Speaker 1:So not everyone who is waiting to get a degree now to start looking for a job. People are really out here doing amazing things and I've seen them in the hackathon and people are doing some amazing, amazing stuff. So I'll tell everyone across the country, across the continent, wherever it is. I know most people go to school, go for holidays, maybe when you're not lucky to go to high school, don't give up. There are some colleges. You can do packages. Then you understand how to type in a computer. There are so many videos online. There's documentation. Nowadays, most of the books actually computer programming books are available on PDF online.
Speaker 1:So it's a matter of your interest and also being out there. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong that can go when you're out there. And now that comes back to me. So my first computer I was in first year. When I just showed up it was like desktop. You know, university is only desktop. But my first computer was in second year, second semester. You just add two semesters per year, and that's when I got to own a small HESA.
Speaker 1:Maybe you guys know how small HESA looks like and that HESA actually was destroyed by so many guys because I used to charge it. You know it didn't keep the charge long. It was like when it's full, like one, one and a half hours, when I'm like busy when it's doing the work, you know, running a, a, a, a, a, a, a partition.
Speaker 4:Linux.
Speaker 1:Maybe one hour. So I used to keep it charging and you know, in school normally there are no extensions that are really but I know of course USI used to have more.
Speaker 1:They have figured out that you don't need to have socket on the walls, so people used to pass with that wire. And then my computer used to fly. After one year it just died on me Like literally died, like nothing could be done. I went to the fundi. They were like do you want to sell the screen? Can you imagine I can give you two G's?
Speaker 1:because here, alternatively, replacing the motherboard is like buying another one for sure and that time that's when I actually started thinking deeply about me as a computer scientist. I did computer science. What is the most important investment in my life? And I think this is a question I would pose to anyone who is doing anything and I realized the most important investment in my life is the tool that I use every day and that's why, for me, my computers is like it's better be the best that there is in the market, because that's my tool. When I see people play around with what they use every day, I'm like are you serious? Like this is what you use, like every single day. I'd rather not have a TV or anything fancy. I might be sleeping on the floor but, what I'm using, the tool that I'm using.
Speaker 1:It's better be really working. Because, from that experience I realized if this tool dies and I have a project as an entrepreneur because I did entrepreneurship for a long time then of course, I'm done. And you know Nairobi has a way of telling you see ya, see ya. Very easy, and our home is not thicker, so returning might not be the easiest.
Speaker 3:Might not be the easiest option. Yes, yes, so that sorry sometimes I give my story to just give the context. No, please do, please do.
Speaker 1:But of course, limuru I don't want to call it girls, but Limuru, loreto, girls, limuru, that's the right one. So I've seen a couple of guys come from there who are really good and I wanted to know do you guys also learn programming in school, in high school?
Speaker 3:In high school.
Speaker 1:Or you have to self-teach yourself.
Speaker 3:Unless they started now, we weren't, we didn't have that, of course, the person I'm talking about is older than you, so there's no way they could have started.
Speaker 1:So you said you didn't like biology, so of course that means being a doctor, was all that.
Speaker 3:For a very long time.
Speaker 1:And this is interesting because I realized that also biology makes girls understand themselves more To some extent Because for us in those classes we are so uncomfortable because we are hearing things that we don't want to hear.
Speaker 4:But ladies are like ah, now this makes sense Now they have questions.
Speaker 1:You see, and especially for men or boys or gentlemen in school, especially when that subject is taught by a lady, it's not the easiest, because for a lady there are things that she'll be saying and she doesn't want to joke around, so that you don't take it lightly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:But when it's a man sometimes tell us more tell us more and it becomes interesting. Um, so the question here for me is like it's very interesting to hear the first lady I've had, like biology, was not to me and, by the way, you're very from, maybe it might be the first 10 minutes you're like, ah, in high school, so please tell us more. Why was it not that fascinating?
Speaker 3:I think it's okay, first and foremost, for things not to work out from the first.
Speaker 1:you know You're spoken like an engineer.
Speaker 3:So I remember, I think, the first few classes. I remember we had this class when we were being taught about Mitochondria, mitochondrion, the likes, and that just went above my head. I could not for the life of me understand why it had a difference and it was such a small thing. But I just didn't understand why it had a different pronunciation In plural. And I think I don't know. I have a feeling I had an attitude with my teacher, my biology teacher, in form one.
Speaker 1:Was he a man or?
Speaker 3:A lady. It was a lady. I had an attitude with her so I remember there was a time I can't remember what she was supposed to be doing at the lab. I'm a very sensitive person to touch. I'm very sensitive with touch. So anything small that touches me I want to wash my hands. I don't even like this. You see the way you're cooking and you're having things on your hand. I don't like that Exactly. I keep on washing. So I remember we were at the lab, we were doing something and iodine had spilled on me. So I decided let me just go to, let me just go wash my hand. And she made a very interesting comment.
Speaker 4:She was like I was like okay, I was busy managing my business.
Speaker 3:And just something very, very small, and I actually think about it sometimes and I'm just like it wasn't anything major. But at the time, 15 year old me, I did a big thing. Yeah, she felt it. So I think it just became a compounded problem for me. So I carried on the attitude from first year, from form one rather, till form two, and I remember just when we were going to drop the subjects is when I started liking it.
Speaker 1:What made you like it?
Speaker 3:We had this class something to do with blood groups or something. I found it very interesting about Rasa's positive and Rasa's negative and the likes. I found it very, very interesting and we were going to drop the subject the next week, so I sat down with myself and I'm like I like this lesson, and was it the same teacher all the way? No, it wasn't. It wasn't the same teacher Then that's very interesting.
Speaker 1:It was. So what was the problem with the second teacher?
Speaker 3:The first teacher. The second teacher was actually okay, but already you had. I had already clocked out. I had already clocked, I clocked out. I keep on saying I clocked out in form one. I just clocked out of biology class there was no saving me there really was no saving me.
Speaker 3:So I find it interesting. But I remember sitting down with myself and asking I'm just saying this was one class out of X that I've had previously. I've not liked the other classes. Having liked this one class is not a guarantee that I like all the rest. Because I remember we had a fight, if I can so call it like that, with my mum Because she wants me to do biology, because we had a trend of doing three sciences. You remember the three sciences girls? Yes, the three sciences girls.
Speaker 1:Oh, those were not like a class.
Speaker 3:So it's a whole class.
Speaker 2:It's just like a whole. It's just some power that comes with you.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, there's just some power that comes with you.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh okay, I did three sciences, but it's okay, did you?
Speaker 3:do three sciences? Yes, I did you see. Need I say more? Need I say more?
Speaker 1:She has said it.
Speaker 3:Doing three sciences.
Speaker 4:Like nothing is happening and passing all of them.
Speaker 1:Not just passing, really passing Okay.
Speaker 4:She says something like the words are funny.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I didn't like it, but I think and something I learned from an early age early is relative, but from then, it's being okay with the choices you've made's being okay with the choices you've made and being okay with trying something and not liking it and saying you know what this is, it's fine it's okay, we're not going to be all engineers or all doctors or all exes, and it's okay and living and being okay with that choice yeah, and at this particular point you had made your mind like chemistry, physics, math, these ones look alike.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of correlation and they make a lot of sense. They do Mathematically mostly. So you are kind of a logical person.
Speaker 3:More or less yes, Actually, yes yeah.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, you have said a very important thing that I think anyone in high school primary should actually grab if he's a lady that sometimes ladies know that they're not good in science and we've had these debates STEM, specifically science, what Science, technology, engineering and mathematics.
Speaker 1:But basically scientific stuff and math. It's some of the things that actually have pointed out directly. This one attitude started like this is it Like ah, you know, I'm trying to be me here and I'm not allowed to be me, and I've seen that with a lot of people. And even when I was doing math, I went to like two schools. The first school, the teacher, was an examiner, and for you to be an examiner, you're really good at what you do.
Speaker 1:But it never took us serious because the school I was in the first time.
Speaker 3:Please say the name no shame here.
Speaker 1:It's not a school that you know or you'll never know, but it's not a shame or anything, but they don't deserve my credits.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:They don't.
Speaker 1:So, this school was apparently a provincial school but it was not provincial in actuality. Like for ground it wasn't Because one. They took like five, ten students who performed provincial level and then the rest were like you know, this is a son of DO because he's a neighbour, or son of a chief, you know, just put them there, people with D's. You know so, even as a teacher you're demotivated. But because it was a board of governors kind of run school where sometime even as a teacher you're demotivated, but because it was a board of governors kind of run school where sometimes even some of the teachers are paid by the board of governors, then of course you have to play ball because you know we own this school, Otherwise you know you are the visitor.
Speaker 1:You need to treat us well, but of course, as a result, someone even ends up like you you're not so serious. So there, if you didn't really work hard, nothing happened. Actually, you did not even expect anything to happen. And when you say that some of these aspects of teacher-student relation actually makes people give up, I also see it in when we do workathons and stuff like that, whereby someone comes with some entitlement.
Speaker 1:Straight up, like you know I'm expecting this, but some entitlement Straight up. Like you know I'm expecting this. But also again, someone comes and they have that trauma of like, whatever I ask a question, if I wash my hands, how will I be treated? And I think we need to move away from that because as Africans, we've been traumatized for long. That's why, actually, we're doing these podcasts.
Speaker 1:That's one of the ideas To just address some of the things that actually limit us, that are beyond us, and one of those things is the trauma. And trauma actually can address in different ways. One is that to accept that we're really good. Two is that we have our own weakness.
Speaker 4:And three letting go as you say it.
Speaker 1:Saying that, okay, maybe biology is not me and me I'm not biology, and maybe I'm good with physics Just dig deep and build rockets. But anyway, the point here is that, especially for girls, is that I feel like if we give them a chance and allow them to be them, we could see an amazing start, Because I've seen a couple of really good, good engineers, lady engineers, even at DT in the community, and they end up actually becoming the best, to say the least. But for those who require special attention, sometimes it doesn't really work out because, of course, your expectations are not met or something you feel like ah maybe this is not my space, and I've ever had so many people say, eh, what a safe space, until today.
Speaker 1:I always try to understand. What is that safe space. Because safe space can mean two things, whether treated in a special way, but not getting the right content and deal, because science is hard. Let's not lie about it.
Speaker 1:Science is really hard and you need to love it and be curious enough to understand or safe space might mean to be you and also to be given a chance to really dig deep yeah I love the second part, whereby and that actually you can create yourself, like, once you learn something, you go ahead and investigate about it, do something around it, understand more about it, and so on and so forth. But that's my take right. So going forward, were you monolized?
Speaker 4:Sorry.
Speaker 1:Were you monolized.
Speaker 3:Was I monolized?
Speaker 1:You know what monolized?
Speaker 3:means yes, wow or bullying.
Speaker 1:But I don't feel like it should be bullying, because bullying is a whole, total different thing.
Speaker 3:It is bullying. It is bullying, okay, subliminal or not, it is bullying. Why are you monolized?
Speaker 1:Yes and no? Don't give us that answer, please.
Speaker 3:It's a tough question. It's a tough question because the reason I was monolized was not the traditional reason as to oh, you're just a tough question. It's a tough question because the reason I was monolized was not the traditional reason as to oh, you're just a Form 1, you're being monolized. I was monolized for something else and I'm not even sure it's being monolized. By and large, I can say I was bullied, sadly, for a while.
Speaker 1:Especially for the first.
Speaker 3:The first one and a half semesters, one and a half times.
Speaker 1:Times In form one.
Speaker 3:And how did you deal with that? How did I deal with that? If I'm being honest, I actually broke down. I became hysterical. I think what I was trying to say is there was the instigator of this and I had back had history outside of Loreto.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, it's someone you knew.
Speaker 3:Okay, it's not someone you knew, it's someone whom we shared a connection with. So this history then was brought into high school, right? So, um, I realized, once it became, I became hysterical, um, at a point of actually going to therapy and being sent home it was that serious it was bad. It was bad, but it was just like um an iceberg kind of moment. You know that, the thing that just tips you off. But it's not the reason why there was underlying problems, but it's not.
Speaker 1:It just awakens a lot of problems. Yeah, it does, and she knew how to use this real good.
Speaker 3:I don't even think she knew. I don't even think she knew. I think it was just her being a normal form two deciding to bully me, not knowing that she was opening up a kind of womb. Okay, yeah. So yeah, I think, started this whole journey of therapy. I only did it for a year, I guess. Form one Then came back. My mom has been very, very supportive, so she came back and was very loud about it. She was like there is someone here who is not giving my child rest and I shall not rest until my child has rest. So we had to sit down and had to find a work around as to how we would both live in that school. But beyond that, I think it didn't go as far as bad as I've heard people's stories, because I have heard terrible stories, so it wasn't as bad, but bullying is still bullying.
Speaker 1:But they have a controversial question and you can answer it, it's okay. You can say okay, maybe I have no, you know, just feel free. I've had a. I don't know if it's ok or you can say ok, maybe I have no, you know, just feel free. I've had. I don't know if it's because of cold or something but, I've had Loreto in Limuru. Sisi Kwasisi is very, very prominent to an extent that I saw it in some papers some time back you did.
Speaker 1:I can't remember really well and don't quote me, but is that an issue there? I have to be sure, because at the end, of the day on public domain, I would not like to accuse a whole school of something that I can't really recall, but I feel like I saw something like that, or maybe on social media I'm not so sure I saw this, but is that a problem there?
Speaker 4:Or not a problem, I don't want to call it a problem.
Speaker 1:It was a thing. Yeah, full stop Period. Were you a victim?
Speaker 3:Oh no, Thank God, I was not a victim.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I heard also it goes even beyond that to cults, which is very serious, and I think it's about time we started talking about these things because we can all sit here and assume these things are not happening, especially in girls and boys schools because I also understand as much as we are accepting and embracing them and now even calling them human rights for. God's sake, they also traumatize people beyond. People even commit suicide because what happens to you remains with you. It's something that actually you never even anticipated.
Speaker 4:You just went to school to learn Now all these things happen.
Speaker 1:So what do you think we can do, because some of us here will become parents in the future and you not wish that to your son or not. What do you think we can do about it? Should you allow people to be meeting in funkies more? That help?
Speaker 3:I don't think beating is a solution. No, no, no, I'm getting there. I don't think beating is an ultimate solution. I was actually hearing. If you're in the country, you know there has been a bill to reintroduce sex education within the current curriculum and people are fighting it. The church is fighting it. Muslims are fighting it. The religious community let me put it that way the religious community is fighting it. Islams are fighting it. The religious community, let me put it that way the religious community is fighting it. But we're not getting any moral out of society.
Speaker 3:If anything, we're getting even more immoral. So failing to have these discussions because the thing is for most of sex talk or this understanding of who you are with regards to now, that is usually left to your teachers, to class six biology or your biology class no, it never sits you down. But the thing is, failing to talk about it does not solve the problem. The problem is already within the society. Failing to talk about it does not. It won't magically go away and I think we have a tendency, as especially Africans, to sweep things under the rug and magically while them away and wait for them to one day God will help us and God will help us. But I feel like it's very, very important to have these discussions from not just high school, but from an early age.
Speaker 1:Even parents should actually rise to the occasion From home.
Speaker 3:It should start from home and then transition on to school, and we should not be afraid to have these discussions. I was listening to someone talking about how, if you have a child who's on TikTok and past 9 pm, it's just chaos.
Speaker 1:Crazy yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, is it true? I actually it was an uninstalled TikTok. Yeah, I got to a point where I was just like I'm just wasting my time. Yeah, exactly, it's an addiction I don't want to bear. Yeah, but if what people are saying is true, then you're imagining that this kid is being introduced to so much, and even the music we're listening to, even the movies we're watching, we're not becoming you know, especially the movies, oh my goodness.
Speaker 3:And the thing is we're not becoming any more. We're not becoming any better as a society. We'll always be degrading from time immemorial. We've always become, we'll always become worse to the next generation. So parents, talk about it. Everyone should be able to have these discussions.
Speaker 1:And I feel like we should talk about it from the point of truth and not imposing what you believe into someone else and it should be okay to say that I don't want to have that discussion if that is available.
Speaker 1:But, of course, you should know the truth. The truth is that, for sure, most of us are here because of some of the decisions that were made for a long time and which actually have been well documented. Why and there are a couple of reasons around it and there's a better way to look at it than we are looking at it right now, and I'm not saying I'm right. Everyone else is wrong.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying we should be able to evaluate this soberly, and I'm sure not everyone will be. Like you know and I've seen this actually even on Twitter when this, some of these discussions are brought about, some of the definitions have been changed on Google. Can you imagine that? Yeah, it's getting serious, so yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're not aware, just check around I don't want to get into it, but when time is right I will go into details. And one thing that I was discouraging is because it's a rat race and it has no end. Once you go in, you will not have an end and you see, life has to be predictable in some way, like, at this point, this is what is expected of me, or I expect this of me, and from this point, this is what I want to see. And with that predictability, as much as life is challenging myself, then people have hope and also they can actually solve problems as they go, because, also, even when we talk about you, even beyond sex education, there's this expectation of like ah, I'm a graduate, I should be having a V8.
Speaker 1:I should be. You know, when you see a good car, when you see a good building, anything you see, you want it to be yours and in actuality it can't. That's the truth, that's the fact. It can't change. And then that puts you in a place of depression, stress, you know, resentment, and we expect Africans to be more productive than they are to be able to solve most of our problems. So it has to be an holistic approach. Now, before we go deep into this and we lose track, you get to Form 4. And you again. Have fun with the KCSE. How was that? Were you like? No, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:You know when I did my KCSE and I'll share this from a personal point of view, I didn't think I was ready, but I had confidence that this one, whatever it is, it is what it is. This one, whatever it is, it is, it is, it is what it is. Number one is because my first I think two and a half years it wasn't a good experience as Shia Dahlia, but the other two years I saw it can be different and I thank God for that experience. Because one side is okay. Did I say I thank God? Yes, I thank God. So one side was like there's no hope. And I know there are people who in life, even as you speak, right now, they're in a place where they can't see tomorrow, they can't see what happened next. And then I go to this school and I'm like it's possible. Actually this can be done. It doesn't matter if I'm given three months or four months.
Speaker 1:That's why I was like it's KCSE anyway, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:It could be worse than this Do you understand, Because here we never actually go through a quarter a book of KIE math. There's no book that we finished in any particular class yes. When we are hearing people in Alliance and other places finish their syllabus in first or second term in form three and the rest of the time is just going through everything and we are told you know what?
Speaker 1:Everything will come from one and two. Most of it, like 60 to 70%, will come from one and two. Why we didn't cover nothing. Now I say, this could be worse. I'm here, I've seen it can be done. There are people who actually have done it. So for me, I was at least in a better position when I did my KCS. You know, not the perfect one, but in a better position. But what is it for you? And, by the way, Sylvia.
Speaker 3:I actually think she should go first Tell us.
Speaker 1:How was it for you with the KCSE?
Speaker 2:KCSE was an interesting experience. I liked that the papers were well spaced and I am part of Matiang's past bonds.
Speaker 1:Ah, it was tough.
Speaker 2:No. So while we were here, if you had KCSE made familiar, it was the equivalent of gold at that time, yeah, true, yeah, we still made familiar. It was the equivalent of gold at that time. Mine was stolen during that KCNC period it was that bad Because our papers were coming right from the past papers. You've done them before, probably just as revision or exercise. But now you know they're bringing them from any of this.
Speaker 2:We have a whole book to go through. People would book that book and we'd go for tea break. When someone is reading a question, a whole group, someone answers. We look at the answers because you don't have time to borrow. There are few. They're not in the library anymore. Everyone has borrowed. It was insane. So that experience was quite something for us. We were selling KMF. People were buying them. We were selling KMF, people were buying them, sending teachers to buy them. It was insane.
Speaker 1:What is KMF?
Speaker 2:KCSE Made Familiar.
Speaker 1:It's a book with all the past papers from 1990-something. Is it like those books they create from sunshine, or these are separate?
Speaker 3:It's just KCSE questions. Oh okay, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's now pass-up. So you have the KMF math you have, and it's now per subject so you have the KMF math, you have all the past papers from around 80 something, the current last year.
Speaker 1:So it's how your memory subs you it was all about you.
Speaker 2:It was all crummy, for sure. Yeah, so it was a very beautiful period. I enjoyed it when.
Speaker 1:I hear these experiences, I'm like, ah, my life could have been different for sure tell you what I never saw. Most of these things, yeah, the closest I come to like seeing things really make sense is Simuturi solving problems no, no, simuturi, that's the closest.
Speaker 3:These are the people who used to remember page books, page numbers. Let it be noted.
Speaker 1:No, that's the closest I came to it, and especially my last two years. Actually, they're not two years, it's like quite a few months. So when I hear people actually used to revise, like you're saying, I'm like wow, there's so much inequality across the country. Apparently. Even as we speak, there are people who are not doing CBC. You'll be surprised by the way when these guys get tested. There are people who are not doing because every teacher is also learning CBC and teaching.
Speaker 4:CBC.
Speaker 1:Now here in Nairobi, of course, I've seen chaos Now imagine outside Nairobi go to the remotest place things that people are requested to bring here. Like every other week, you're printing something for your kid.
Speaker 3:Now imagine in Lopicha, the place that doesn't even have electricity.
Speaker 1:Do you understand so you can see CBC as much as and I'm not critiquing it, I'm just saying even with KCSE or KCP there's those disparities. Can we be able to harmonize education so that the standard is equal? Because, me, I've always been a believer that innovation, smartness, iq is equally distributed across the country or even across the continent.
Speaker 1:Now move away from Kenya. Unless you have traveled a bit, you've seen it's chaos, total chaos, that even if someone makes it from that place, those are the guys who change the world, because they make something out of nothing. So, even as you have, those are the guys who changed the world because they make something out of nothing, nothing for sure, right?
Speaker 1:So, even as you have these podcasts, I want us to think like, if really Africa has to really change things, if you have to be the impact masters, as we say, how can we? Because tomorrow you might be the minister of education Africa, you know, I see Africa being united. What can we do different? To address a matter of advanced stuff, but things that actually could spread and scale without much of loans and all these things that people create around it and change the dynamics. Because, having travelled across this country alone and meeting people who otherwise had no idea where they want to be, and now you see you can be sent in an unlikely university, you guys, maybe you're sent to the most likely university. You can be sent to an unlikely one.
Speaker 1:We have 65 universities and I don't know if you know all of them. Maybe you guys know like four or five. I don't think I know all of them. Imagine 65, if you are sent to one of those that you don't know and you just know 5. There are another 60 that you don't know. Imagine the chances of you making it Anything. It's crazy. So even when we do outreach, when we do some, of these things.
Speaker 1:The thing that we want people to know is that we are presenting a platform where resources are equal, you can access for you and your friends, and if you come together, it's even much better but how?
Speaker 3:was the KCSE, remember we moved to the dining hall, the dining hall, the dining hall was rendered null and void, personal and greater. If you're not a FOM4, kindly eat outside. Why are you wasting our time? Especially the third time it was crazy. I remember I also had my own section at the corner somewhere. So KCC wasn't bad. I don't think I picked a reference. I was actually thinking about whether ours was from KMF or KCC wasn't bad. I don't think I picked a reference. I was actually thinking about whether I was from KMF or KCC. Made familiar. I don't think it was for us because I was a year after I came.
Speaker 3:I did my exam a year after you. I don't think it was, but it really wasn't that bad. It was, at least for me, please, at least for me, because I think the more access you have and I was actually just thinking about how important access is to getting leverage, you know so, for instance, the fact that we had seen a couple of these questions all across the board. So some of these questions that had come during our mocks or our exams previously, or we had seen them in, we had this we had a lab manual that was printed like to school owned. We used to do, like labs, lab practicals every week, so every day, actually in Form 4. So you're imagining that even going into the lab sessions it wasn't very difficult for us because these are questions we had already come and seen, you know. So it wasn't really anything new Until recently, actually a week ago, I was talking to some lady. She's in form three and she's telling me how they don't do lab practicals. I know they don't do lab practicals.
Speaker 1:There are schools which do not have labs Exactly, or they have lab but they do not have the equipment.
Speaker 4:They hardly ever use them.
Speaker 3:And she's telling me how especially like because she's in Form 3 right now, so they're carrying Form 4s how they've only gone to the lab. They've only had three lab sessions the entire year and I was imagining how, by the end of second term, going into third term, how we were so fed up with lab practicals because it was a daily thing. It was during afternoon break. You'd go to the lab 4.30, go to the lab Daily, monday to Friday. If you did three sciences, you'd have lab practicals every day, monday to Friday. So you're imagining how.
Speaker 3:I was actually even thinking about how access really puts us at a different place all across the like, all across, especially within the education system, because there are people who didn't have access or like they didn't have the privilege that we had, the information that we had. You're looking at things like KMF. How many students actually have KMF till this day? It's something that everyone, especially if you've gone to a school that basically binds by it or prays by it or promises like how to phrase it like speaks to it, how KMF is very important, but there's so many other people and there's so many other students who don't even know KMF exists, leave alone having it.
Speaker 1:And is it by design that they print less of that, because this is the first time I'm hearing about it.
Speaker 2:They're just normal books. You buy it in the textbook store or anywhere. It's just like any other revision book. Maybe it's a bit expensive or something, so you can't have all of them and you have many subjects. So maybe you have one, someone else has another subject.
Speaker 4:So you do exchange programs yeah.
Speaker 2:You just schedule it, Say hey, can I borrow this tomorrow? So that's how it works. Even the library had very few there were like two or three. So the moment people realized the exam was everyone, everyone ran together, but there were very few, so you have to learn how to read in a group or things like those. And not everyone again actually has access to them in the first place.
Speaker 1:Okay, makes a lot of sense. You get to dining Person and granta place.
Speaker 3:Person and granta.
Speaker 3:From one to three. We shall not see you in this dining hall. I remember we actually wrecked Havoc in high school because we shifted the sleeping times. We were supposed to sleep by 11. Now we're sleeping at 2 am. People are not sleeping. We really were not sleeping. But I appreciate myself and I appreciate my group members and my friends and the entirety of the students of Loretta High School in Muru 2017, because we pulled through for each other. We really held each other's hands, we worked together and, by and large, we did really well. So, yeah, and it was not the greatest experience I don't think such pressure should. I would not advocate for such pressure but it was a good experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have said pressure, and I remembered earlier today I was saying, and I was remembering that people ask can you work?
Speaker 1:And I work well under pressure. It's a statement that people present in their resumes or CVs with pride and I realize, by the way, it's systematic, it's by design because, if for sure and this is an African culture that we need to draw this one last minute kind of approach whereby you wait all along your K until maybe a day or few hours to you put in everything. And I think we develop this from the exams that we do everyday, whereby we don't try to understand stuff, we try to cram. And again, just using the example of the high school, I went to the second one I realized there are people who don't struggle to understand things and I learned a lot from them. Like, if you take time to understand when something is presented and really you get it in your brain, it's really hard for it to go, because these guys never struggle to like it's the last thing or there are people who have leak or someone will beat me.
Speaker 1:This is what I understand. This is what I will present.
Speaker 4:And you know like moves on.
Speaker 1:And these guys used to present really really good examples. One of the guys, the one I was telling you about earlier, the guy who anything, nothing, he looked at you know he took three sciences, like took actually, if there were like four more, he would have done them and he's a guy who will find in every trouble that you think of. He's a guy who was easy. He used anything and everything that goes around, but he was easy. I'm living my life.
Speaker 3:It's actually interesting that you say that. I have a friend of mine Went high school together and we were still in uni together and she literally only needs to sit down and listen.
Speaker 3:And she won't forget she only needs to listen, take notes, for just here I need to have a blue, black, red, yellow, green pen, I need to underline italize. I cannot understand with just listening I will probably sleep and what you're saying is very important because there's so many, and I think CBC hopefully does this leverages that playing ground because we learn very differently. True true.
Speaker 3:We really learn very, very differently and you're imagining someone only needs to sit down and listen and you need to put in 65 hours and you're still not understanding half of the things that you understand. So, yeah, there is also that need to leverage and create spaces where different learning styles or architectures can shine exactly and be incorporated together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so apparently that's very, very important, so you performed really well.
Speaker 4:What did you get?
Speaker 3:I got an A-.
Speaker 1:A that's good, that's good. So what did you get?
Speaker 3:Thank, you, Thank you. What did you get? An A oh gosh.
Speaker 4:And you what did?
Speaker 2:you get.
Speaker 1:Me.
Speaker 2:I got a 141. 141?, I got a 141.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, 141 in that crew of the 141 era. So oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you were supposed to get an A in my heart.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's still an.
Speaker 2:A it is an A you are.
Speaker 1:You're the 142nd, however on the ground so one day I'll tell my story it's one of the interesting stories for sure when I tell it. By the way, you'll see why it's very interesting. Okay, we can't wait, it's one of the unlikely, unlikely, I'll say one of the unlikely outcomes.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, but anyway, you should be the one sitting here now. No one of these fine days I'll sit there, you should.
Speaker 1:My story is quite fascinating and I feel it's. I'm not yet ready to tell it, because one it might. It might impact in a negative and positive way, both sides, but I hope when I'm ready it will impact in a positive way and I feel like if I tell my story right now, other people's story would also sound interesting to listen to.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 3:No for me.
Speaker 4:Because I like when you tell your story, I can also bring a few.
Speaker 1:And you see, that's how interesting it becomes, because now I can see myself in one or the other. But of course, one of these fine days or in the coming years, I'll be able to see it in tech. I also have not seen someone who can ask the right questions yet.
Speaker 4:Have you tried For me? Have you tried? Yeah, I have.
Speaker 3:I have.
Speaker 1:Even some of my guests. Sometimes we have a chat and I'm like ah, okay, okay, okay, one guy, but of course gram.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's always. Yes, I don't know if he's around but yeah, he's a guy.
Speaker 1:I feel like, ah, this guy can ask the right questions but not yet. Yeah, but uh, of course, even him. It's really hard to get him as a guest.
Speaker 3:I think we'll get she has you should actually have you exactly, but for him.
Speaker 1:He has the stories for this in different subjects.
Speaker 4:Oh my goodness, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, even when you're having a discussion, I feel like getting a mic and cameras, because I'm like if people really had this across Africa, it would change a lot of things.
Speaker 1:Even the way people view God, even the way people view the Bible, even the way people view Islam, even the way people view technology, innovation In a subject. And that's how I like some of the discussions, because I believe Africans are endowed with knowledge beyond our imagination, even the guests I've hosted here. Oh my Like, we are not telling enough. There's so much. But ideally you knew that you'll go to J-Quad, or was it one of the selections, or how did that happen?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it was my selection. Actually, I wanted to do either electrical or telecoms.
Speaker 1:Why electrical or telecoms specifically?
Speaker 3:Specifically, I think it was feeding into the small things of water. You remember when I started talking about me being eight years, so I forwarded that to now, moving towards fixing the DVD player at home a couple of years later and being the one who was tinkering with stuff and mending things in the house, even when I was in high school. So there was that interest. So after high school I sit down with myself and I'm like and it's interesting how around the same time I was finishing up with high school is the time when they had the Orenko, the whole election petition, exactly. So it was very insightful for me because I was like I do not want to do this and that is okay, that is fine. So I had to now go back to the drawing board.
Speaker 3:So by the time I'm finishing high school, I have no idea what I want to do, but I just know I don't want to do law. So, um, and I think I was actually thinking about it in the morning it was a fast place to the first. This was the first incept of community, because my mom introduced me to four engineers. She introduced me to four different engineers. She was like meet that one, go talk to them engineers. She introduced me to four different engineers. She was like meet that one, go talk to them, meet that one, go talk to them, meet that one.
Speaker 1:Go talk to them. What kind of?
Speaker 3:engineers. There was a civil engineer, there was an electrical engineer, there was a mechanical engineer. I think the other one had done water engineering at something to do with Kenya Water something.
Speaker 1:Then also Were they all girls, or there were some.
Speaker 3:No, it was mixed. It was two ladies, three ladies and a gentleman. And I remember also now starting to talk to my friends who were in campus and asking them how did you do this? How are you doing this? How are you able to do this? What made you choose this take this choice? So I was actually thinking about how that you able to do this, what made you choose this, take this choice? So I was actually thinking about how that starting to talk about the kind of problem I was going through or the kind of problem I had at the time, was the first incept for me in community. So, um, I think I kind of tinkered around, spoke to a couple of people, decided so, come the time to do the placement. I decided, okay, let's just choose J-Quart.
Speaker 1:So J-Quart, this and this school so you guys used to do placement after the exam.
Speaker 3:We did twice so it was the first time before the exam and then after the revision so the first time I'd done, I'd written law, so I'd done.
Speaker 3:UN law it was actually UN law, nku, was it NKU? It was UN law, ku law, jqat, all the laws, like you know, all traditional schools that actually offer law. And then now, afterwards, now come the revision time, I'm just like I can't do this, it doesn't fit me anymore. And now, having spoken to now this couple of engineers and having gotten an insight into kind of the things that they were doing, I really liked the engineering space, especially the electrical engineering space. But again, from a point of um ignorance, I said Mr Kikukwa is fondu astima, no because electrical just translates to that again, that's all I knew at the time.
Speaker 1:It's not all there is, but that's all I knew and remembering the blackout that we had the other day, I have something for these electrical engineers. Like you guys, do you do your your stuff real well. I don't want to use the curse words, but do you really do it well?
Speaker 3:Actually, I read something very interesting on Twitter on how it's a correlation with the dropping of thermal power at Tirokan or something. Okay, let me not. I probably will give rumors.
Speaker 1:Explain that to anyone else, not typical engineers, but it's all right.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll fix these things by then.
Speaker 3:For sure, for sure, like people are engineers, but it's alright. Okay, yeah, we'll fix these things, by the way, for sure for sure.
Speaker 1:Mark my words. Some of these things I feel like not that I'm in a position of power or anything, but I believe there are some of these that we should not be experiencing To some extent the kind of engineers that we have, the smartness that we have across Africa there are some things that we should have encountered in the whole country.
Speaker 1:But also I don't ignore that some of these things are by design To some extent. I don't really know, when you have a blackout over 12 hours, 18 hours to some extent Because think of it this way, how much losses do you bring people, even individuals who have maybe stuff in the fridge or people who wanted to work remote jobs. If you think about it, the loss that you incur is more than whatever the design. That blackout among as many other failures and I'm happy what, not even in the power industry, but what the new government is doing, things like e-citizen. I've been saying this for the longest, maybe for the last 10 years that when I look at other developed world websites, government websites, all these engineers I interact with every day and see some cool designs.
Speaker 3:Where do?
Speaker 1:you expect them to implement some of this cool stuff. So most of these guys end up going to Europe, going to US.
Speaker 4:Some of the engineers work, so most of these guys end up going to Europe, going to US, going to you know, some of the engineers work in the state house.
Speaker 1:by the way, from here, from this country, some of them work for Tesla People. I know, actually you know, like people here, say but why do we let all this talent go? Because of our selfish interest, whereby okay my cousin knows how to write HTML and CSS put them there and then you don't want to hear anything and no one can fire them.
Speaker 1:We need to move beyond that. We're not saying your cousin should not get a job, but of course except your cousin is supposed to be an intern first to learn some of these things there's also merit that comes with it.
Speaker 1:So let's be merit based, because of course, if you ask me, we have actually more than the right talent we do. There are people who really give up because some of these opportunities are given out. And also, let's encourage people to even do entrepreneurship, whereby you can actually consult for all these people. But the right as much. As I've not seen so much from the current government, at least they're on the right track. When it comes to the systems. Of course it doesn't look good.
Speaker 1:It looks good, but when you go to the specific services, they're not yet there. But if we can be able to do all of these together and actually this could be emulated from Rwanda. If you go to Rwanda. Here you can register business in six hours, six hours, six hours, so you could land there, register business and come back home.
Speaker 3:Six hours is good.
Speaker 1:And they want to implement the Mauritius way of doing business. Yeah, yeah, so can you imagine that? So it can be done? We're talking about things that cannot be done. The other day, we were at ALU and Kanagi Mellon in Rwanda and we found all Africans represented there. These guys built systems that I could not imagine within, I think, eight hours.
Speaker 3:Six hours, the hackathon you had in Rwanda.
Speaker 1:So you can't tell me otherwise, I'm already sold out, I'm already convinced this is working.
Speaker 3:We actually have potential for sure.
Speaker 1:So it's a matter of also because, you see, innovation cannot exist in vacuum. So policies have to support these things to do with how we perceive the solution. We want to see the expectation from the citizens, Because I'm proud to pay right now actually I would say confidently I'm proud to pay for something e-citizen because of the usability and all that. Do you know? Right now you can see your ID on e-citizen, you can see your passport. You can see your driving license.
Speaker 4:This is the way it is.
Speaker 1:So, even if you forgot it at home, people have spent. People may be in jail because they forgot their passport or whatever it is, or driving license and they could not show it to a cop yeah.
Speaker 1:This is serious. Someone maybe is in jail as we speak right now because they forgot and the cop could not log into his cell and see, imagine how many lives will be improved just by that one experience. So you know, william Ruto, his Excellency, good job. If it's you who is doing this, good job, keep doing it. Present a merited kind of stuff or work that people could actually plug in, and we support you from the tech ecosystem. But of course, again, we need to address the electrical. What was steamer?
Speaker 3:What was steamer, categorically we can do better.
Speaker 1:That's what I can say right now, for sure. So you didn't want to become a mtuastema, so you didn't want to become a trustee.
Speaker 3:I didn't want to become a trustee. You see the kind of problems I have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could be looking. That would be your reputation.
Speaker 3:Imagine I could have been the one in the hot seat, having to explain why.
Speaker 1:I'll be looking in some kind of way Until I finish school.
Speaker 3:May God be with you. May God be with us all. May God be with you. May God be with us all. So, yeah, I think it was from a point of ignorance that I picked telecoms, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1:It was a point of ignorance. So if you were given that choice again, you'd pick electrical.
Speaker 3:No, I probably would See. There's a poem we did in high school, robert Frost. There's a verse that says you see how way turns on to way. So having made that choice out of ignorance has led me to a point where now I can't turn back, and I really like it, but you know there's nothing happens by accident. Nothing happens by accident true, for sure, from the human nature.
Speaker 1:We think okay just by accident also in this podcast we get spiritual, so don't worry. So, from the human perspective, you look at it and you're like, ah, this was bad. But when you, when you sit back and take time, you're like this was meant to happen it was if this didn't happen. This could not have happened. If this didn't happen, you?
Speaker 3:see things actually start now making sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it starts tracking up, so you're on the right track. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yes, by and large. So, yeah, I picked telecoms, got called, joined, started my program.
Speaker 1:That was your first choice.
Speaker 3:It was. It was my first choice was telecoms and then electrical. It was actually telecoms, telecoms, telecoms and then electrical, electrical.
Speaker 1:Those are different buses.
Speaker 3:Yeah, telecoms at Jquart, telecoms at Multimedia, because Multimedia, I think, was the only one that was offering telecoms at the time.
Speaker 1:And then electrical at Jquart. Electrical at UN.
Speaker 3:So UN doesn't offer telecoms.
Speaker 1:Not that I know, when I was joining there was.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe, when I was joining, there was telecommunication engineers or something. But you see, when I was joining one of my guardian was, he used to be a. I don't know if it's a, they're called, not pilots. I don't know if it's the piloting, not pilots, the engineers who deal with the aeroplanes, aerospace, aerospace. The guys who travel with the jets and stuff or aeroplanes. Always there is an engineer.
Speaker 3:The first engineer.
Speaker 1:Something like that.
Speaker 4:But, in the military.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, when I tell my story I'll talk about him a bit. You should, so he's the guy who actually showed me the reality of engineering post what I had expected Me.
Speaker 1:From day one, I wanted to be an engineer, but over time okay, I wanted to be two things an engineer or a musician, but I realized over time singing is not my thing for some reason, but I believe if I could practice enough and given an environment, I could be a musician, so I don't rule it out, but of course, the environment did not conspire with me or the nature did not conspire with me, so nature did not conspire with me, so I started also tinkering around with law and journalism, which actually did not turn out, because I was lucky enough to visit all these universities before I joined them that's amazing and every time I went to any university I had their own story, which I'll tell one day. And when I went to the university, I wanted to do engineering. It happened to be it. But now I was like, why don't you do telecommunication engineering?
Speaker 1:it's quite on demand and, given the facts, who will make it? I'm like when the mobile phone came about, this wiring of you, remember we had a wired kind of telecommunication from Posta and Telecom now the one that you call Telecom they took those wires down within a year. Or they were taken down, or I don't know what happened, or they were harvested for some reason. One year there was no, even right now you might be surprised there is no, they are called line. What are they Phone lines? They are called phone lines.
Speaker 2:I guess the cables.
Speaker 1:The cable, the telephones. Yes yes, but if you go to other developed world, those things they still exist, they still exist. But here we took them within a year. That actually opened my eyes on how fast the technology can change. So, number one, I was discouraged with anything to do with it. Anything you say telecom, I was like, ah, it was all software. And again, another thing is that I was thinking from the point of like, what is the course that I could do? That is one mobile two entry point is not that steep.
Speaker 1:And I can start it. I don't need anyone else. I can build it. I can start it if I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I settled on software engineering. But after visiting KU, I changed my mind.
Speaker 4:Hey, KU this is not an engineering school. What?
Speaker 1:happened? He is like ah, there is, this is not an engineering school. What happened? He is ah, there is no engineering going on here.
Speaker 4:But don't worry when I tell this story, you'll hear my view.
Speaker 1:That's my personal view. Then law and journalism. So I was left with law, journalism and anything to do with computer science Right. So I went to UN. I visited, of course, the main campus where journalism and no journalism is offered. Law is in.
Speaker 4:Parklands.
Speaker 1:So I went to main campus like journalism I visited actually some of those lectures.
Speaker 4:I was so disappointed.
Speaker 1:Then I realized this thing is for the beauty, not even for the content or brilliant or anything. Then I realized, by the way, how many radio stations and TV stations do you? Have. I did my math real quick. Imagine I gave up in that process Then when I saw I did not perform really really well the languages, so it's not me. So I was left with love and one of engineering.
Speaker 4:It's not.
Speaker 1:So I was left with love, and one of engineering especially, either. Even then I was thinking about electrical engineering. So I was like I'll do something to do with engineering, but I'm not so sure. So when I went there they were offering electrical. I was told if you want, actually, it's just opposite main. I was told, if you want computing, or it's just opposite. I was told, if you want computing or anything, go to Chiromo. Chiromo Is that where medics are. How come that engineering is happening here but the other engineering is happening the other side?
Speaker 1:They said no it's not engineering, it's computer science. Between main campus and.
Speaker 4:Chiromo.
Speaker 1:I've done my enough research. I was like this is better, I'm getting everything at the same place which is software engineering, anything to do with computing, anything to do with computer science itself, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:So I went there and there was this guy called Labala you know, what I asked him is there like a very affordable course that I could do here as I wait, because you used to wait for two years? You guys are so lucky, by the way. You guys are like you finish high school, you're in university. You used to wait for two years and a lot of things can happen in two years.
Speaker 1:I was like, ah, we used to offer ICT diploma, but I don't think. But if you're in hurry, you could do computer science diploma. I'm like diploma Okay. But to cut the story short, where I was going with this story is that my guardian, who happened to work for Air Force, kenya Air Force. He showed me the reality of engineering. One he said there is what we call calculus, and he showed me his books in the military.
Speaker 4:He showed me discrete math he showed me everything like this is it?
Speaker 1:I could not make sense what is happening here and remember I've done some proper math in high school. I'm like, ah, okay, calculus makes sense to some extent, but introductory part. Like, what we did and struggled with is introduction and this is the thing. Then we go to algebra. Okay, remember, by the time I'm finishing high school, I'm like why are we dealing with A, b, c, d, x, y, whatever? Then I saw the statistics. Why are you writing here?
Speaker 3:What does this?
Speaker 1:What's this symbol? It's everywhere. But he told me the reality. This is what you're going to deal with. But the catch of all this is that these are just formulas expounded, so if you understand the formula, you'll have no problem understanding all these things.
Speaker 4:All these things are details and I was like ah, not that bad, I can understand the formula. So I was able to survive.
Speaker 1:In case you see paper two, just two. Three formulas got me good marks.
Speaker 1:So, this one should not be hard. So that's how I was introduced to engineering and also I was given a reality check. That's why I don't believe also in mentorship, because I realized, okay, someone actually can tell you something and you give up. And if it's not well packaged and broken down, we could really give up. So that's the extent of which we went through and I believe we could do more. Especially, this actually goes down to the people who are in high schools and whatever. If maybe you have a parent or something, don't do it when someone has finished exams. You know, even some parents don't expect you to go to college. That's what I realized over time. There are some parents who actually, ah, she passed, now what do you do?
Speaker 2:I never experienced that.
Speaker 1:When you get school fee.
Speaker 1:Now you have to be, you know there's so much that comes with people going to campus and some of them are like ah, maybe, especially for girls, maybe she should finish high school, get married, maybe do a small course there, Right, and we need to change that perspective by actually engaging from and that's one thing I like about CBC, that you don't engage someone when at a certain stage, you engage them continuously. But I'm not advocating for transferring the teacher's responsibility to a parent, because of course, the number one a parent has bills to pay as all these things going on in their life and some of them, maybe even they didn't have that chance especially in African setup.
Speaker 1:They are giving these chances to their children and they are working so hard for this chance, for their children to get this chance. So there is that. So for you, you said you had four engineers. You had the best of the best, four engineers to take you through civil engineering what happens in university, and I believe all of them were in school or they had graduated.
Speaker 3:No, they were actually professionals at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you see you had the best experience. This is what happens in school. This is what you should expect after school. Imagine if everyone had that chance. Yeah, for sure, things would be really different. So you go to Jamaica.
Speaker 3:Jiquat, I think it's very different.
Speaker 1:There's.
Speaker 3:Jiquat and there's Jujar. They're two different places. I was in Jquart, I'm in Jquart, not in Shucha. Why do they call it Jujamaika? I? You're actually one of the people who use it very, very often that I know of that's what they call it realistic and, by the way, do you know why I got this name?
Speaker 1:I never believed that it's called Jamaica the first time I visited there and I slept there for, I think, two days Doing my research, by the way.
Speaker 4:Uh-huh Research. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Then there was nothing. So those prefabs where you watch TV I don't know if you still watch TV there are some prefabs, they're in between, when I came there actually, I told you about it.
Speaker 3:Oh, they have like a TV upstairs, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Actually, even they were worse than high school. I don't know if they still exist, those prefabs. You know where people could just watch.
Speaker 4:TV and stuff.
Speaker 1:So when I saw that actually I was like what this?
Speaker 4:is serious.
Speaker 1:But next time I came there when I met Sylvia and I think you it was, I think seven years of almost ten years down the line I was so impressed because there was so much going on. There were buildings, there was now JICA there was you know IAB was set up there.
Speaker 1:you know the place looked really like a was. You know IAB was set up there. You know the place looked really like a university, like you know something nice. That's when I heard that it's called Jujaboys and I could not dispute then because it looks even worse than a high school. It was that bad. The only place that looked like you know this can be a college is the I don't want to to call them garage, but the places where mechanical engineers, the workshops here where they do their thing, those still existed and you can see they're pretty old. That's why now you could go and say for sure, people do some stuff here. But despite that, the point I want to make here is despite all this and also big up to Dada and Kemali, people drive and this is why now I want people to listen to me carefully. It doesn't matter the environment you're in.
Speaker 4:It's what you do with that environment.
Speaker 1:And if you're really self-driven, you could achieve a lot. What actually you guys experienced at J-Quad was not there. It's because of those guys, even the project about rockets was not there. Because those guys made everyone believe that anything serious should be happening in the future. And guess what? The biggest contributor of that is community, for sure a lot of you still, guys are holding the culture. There is another podcast I will release from an old boy of Chuteku please do.
Speaker 3:How was your experience in Chuteku? An old boy of J-Quad really interesting. It's so interesting how was your experience In J-Quad? It's, it's, I think. How's my experience Trying to think here?
Speaker 1:Were you used to many people so far.
Speaker 3:By this time. I'm used to to a lot of people, so even transitioning to J-Quart is not that big a hurdle. And then for a majority of the time I was commuting, so it wasn't all that bad.
Speaker 1:The scholar, yeah, the scholar.
Speaker 3:So come to classes. Unfortunately for me, classicky bounce. If the class bounces on my way to school, I need to find things interesting to do with my day.
Speaker 1:Because you are not going back home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sometimes I'd actually have to go back home. You're on transit, you have nowhere to go in between and it's probably like 8 in the morning. Why are you going at 8 in the morning? So you just go back home? Yeah, but generally my experience in JQAT has been very, very great and I like what you're saying because I was talking to a friend of mine. He graduated with you actually and we're talking about how different people experience JQAT differently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's true.
Speaker 3:Depending with how what you do with your time. Yeah, people in your class. She graduated last year. People in her class this year? Oh, yeah, sorry, she graduated this year. People in your class?
Speaker 1:experience jayquats differently.
Speaker 3:Please explain. I was looking at, and sometimes I'm actually even looking at the kind of exposure I've gotten, especially within the last two years. You know with now the projects I'm doing or the kind of associations I'm having with some of my lecturers and some of industry people in industry, and all of this is also stemming from the fact that I'm in university at the time. You know, and I do not want by no means am I saying I am better than anyone but you have a discussion with someone, someone who's also in engineering school, and you can see the difference of what exposure has done and you can see, you can clearly tell that we are going through the same school but having very different experiences and having very different stories of what we're going out of from J-Quad, what we're going out with from J-Quad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, yeah, yeah. So you're so modest about this and with your colleague here saying, yeah, yes, these are people who have traveled to Japan, guys.
Speaker 3:So they should not be modest. They should be telling you how to do it.
Speaker 1:You know what I they should be telling you how to do it. Guys, I believe in one thing there are more opportunities for all of us.
Speaker 4:Actually, there are more than enough for all of us.
Speaker 1:It's not a zero-sum game, because I have, you don't, so I believe that if I know something, why not share? Of course there are people who take advantage, but, should I remind, I've done my part, so you have been building rockets for the longest.
Speaker 3:The longest is relative, but yeah.
Speaker 1:No, one year nine months is long.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, One year nine months is long, Let me show you how long it is.
Speaker 1:Starlink has launched in Kenya.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Here there is a IoT satellite that has launched across the world. Kenya launched their own satellite, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Uganda also launched their own satellite India launched a rover.
Speaker 1:Which one crashed in the whatever, was it India? Yeah India between those one year, so it's all short, it's all short. A lot of things have happened around you know aeronautical and space and engineering all together, and this not only comes to as failures or as successes. It comes as lessons for everyone depending on how you look at it. And for you, you have been building rockets. How is that? Because you know when I was growing up.
Speaker 4:Well, when I say that now I feel old.
Speaker 1:We were used to tell this is not rocket science. I need to just tell you this is not the hardest thing and I should tell you rocket science is hard, but you're building these rockets. How is it like? Is it home earth? Is it hardware? Please take us through a standard or grade two.
Speaker 3:Introduction Rocket science 101.
Speaker 1:This is where you shine. But how did you start from? How did you get into it? How?
Speaker 3:I got in, I saw a post some time back where someone said it was two photos. So there's one, a rocket scientist who's teaching students, and he's like no, it was a music lesson. So the teacher says it's not that hard, it's not rocket science. And then the next photo, it's a rocket scientist teaching children rocket science, and he's like it's not that hard, it's not music theory. Children record science and he's like it's not that hard, it's not music theory.
Speaker 3:you see, really depends with how you look at it. But, um, I think, first and foremost and what we need to understand, especially to the, those people who are young and also joining the space, engineering space getting a foothold is the problem, is the biggest hurdle you have to cross. After that, you go through step by step, you're literally spoon-fed. I remember when we were in first year we had chemistry classes and physics classes. We had to go back to high school physics, high school chemistry, high school mathematics. So it's a build-up. So, even by the time right now and I was actually thinking about your guardian if right now I show you the kind of things we're working with with digital signal processing, that's a whole mountain to climb. But what you forget is that there was a previous class I took and a previous class I took and a previous class I took, and every semester there's always that lecturer who says from your previous knowledge, and sometimes you ask yourself which knowledge.
Speaker 4:You know, it's always. It's a build up and the.
Speaker 3:you ask yourself which knowledge you know it's always a build up, and the same thing with rocket science. So how did I start? How did I start? I remember when I was in high school I really used to watch, really used to like watching SpaceX rocket launches.
Speaker 1:The same SpaceX, yeah, when they were same SpaceX, yeah, same same SpaceX when they were failing terribly.
Speaker 3:Yes, when they were failing terribly. I remember there was one time they were trying to recover the second stage and it failed, massively failed. And I found it very interesting and I remember my mom used to come to my bedroom and ask me and by the time I don't even have a laptop, I'm watching on a very small screen, a very small phone Like what are you doing awake at 3am? Because that's the only time that they were launching, so you have to stay up until 3am to watch it. And I don't want to watch it as a past recording.
Speaker 4:No, I want it to be there.
Speaker 3:So I think that was like the first introduction to, like, the entire space industry or the entire space world. So, coming to university, I've been very, very lucky to meet people, especially even in my class but also outside of it, to be people who share my interests, people who feed into my interests, those people who will call you June SpaceX I remember in first and second year we used to call each other but SpaceX is launching. Ebu wake up. Eh, this is what's happening, ebu wake up. There's this test that you know, ebu wake up, and it was not for anything, but just watching and seeing this engineering beauty come to life.
Speaker 1:And seeing a rocket going into outer space and wondering, wow, okay.
Speaker 3:And now they land back, and they land back Exactly, and they land back perfectly.
Speaker 1:Precisely, precisely, yeah, precisely.
Speaker 3:Precisely so, trying to even imagine yourself in that space and making up these big wild dreams of being in that space. I remember one time I was in third year I was going home. I'd had a class. It was something called SES Tech Week. She was part of the organizers.
Speaker 1:And the chair.
Speaker 4:That's when I met you guys right.
Speaker 2:I don't think I met you.
Speaker 1:It was during that time. After that, that's when you became the chair.
Speaker 3:She was the chair then.
Speaker 1:You guys know how to be modest. She's the one who welcomes. She's like you're from the Africa, stocking this way, please? I'm like, what do you do around here? You know you're trying to please upstairs and she has very good PR.
Speaker 3:She has very good PR my goodness let. She has very good PR.
Speaker 1:My goodness, let me tweet her on Going back to the story, I'll speak about that story in conclusion. One day.
Speaker 3:Alright, alright, awesome. So during SES Tech Week and I'd come in the morning and it had not started.
Speaker 1:So what is SES Week?
Speaker 3:SES Week is basically a culmination of engineers coming together.
Speaker 1:What is SES? Maybe that's the right question.
Speaker 3:SES is the Society of Engineering Students, JECWA chapter. It's basically a community for engineering students across the space to nudge out about the things they do, to learn together, to grow together, to experience life together.
Speaker 1:When was SES started? Ses is S-E-S.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:When was this started it?
Speaker 2:was started in 2000. It was about 15, 16 years before the time of taking over, so it's been there for a couple of years so probably early 2000s yeah, or early 2010s, around that time frame yeah, just get the right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because when I was in school, I don't think there was sales per se or it was not that big because we used to invite some of your guys for hackathon if you don't finish that statement and and then have a second when we used to beat them hands down.
Speaker 3:Oh, now do you.
Speaker 1:We do, even today. I'd love to see that battle, by the way, Do they happen where schools actually invite each other nowadays?
Speaker 2:We really try, like in your time, did you like?
Speaker 1:Hallmoot Media. You know UON Technical.
Speaker 4:University of Kenya.
Speaker 1:JQAT KU.
Speaker 2:Definitely we really try, like the student body, let's say the CES body, and for example in UN.
Speaker 1:Maybe we should organize one.
Speaker 2:Let's even forget that they are organizing.
Speaker 3:We should organize one, yes, where we see, yeah, that would be really amazing.
Speaker 1:Let's plan something. Yeah, Because that also gave us an idea where people stop just dumping and they realize there are people who are smarter. You know, by this time you might think you're the smartest person in the world.
Speaker 3:Until you meet people who are like, and then they're very chill about it. They don't look like it. They don't look like it like I'll give you.
Speaker 1:I'll give you this. And like when this used to happen it was not organized by us, but of course we were participating, but you guys even came, listened to the intro and then disappeared and then when by then, akadana was not happening in a single day, so happening in a single day.
Speaker 1:So when it comes to presentation, that's when people realize ah, so these guys did not just go to do other things, they went to prepare how to represent themselves and people used to present some serious, serious projects, because some of these projects is like the one that's been developed over time about health management system. I think maybe some of your colleagues or classmates have started for a long, long time because, it's well-founded and also it's a problem that exists in the health sector.
Speaker 1:So maybe please remind me if I forget about that we should organize something, if not 2023, 2024. But, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Where was I?
Speaker 1:You're explaining to us what CESS is.
Speaker 3:Oh, cess is. So yeah, I think that's just an introduction to who CESS is. So there's usually our tech week, dedicated week just for projects. There's also a hackathon right. There are breakouts. There are breakouts for different industries and different tracks, the likes. So I remember this morning I went to SES week. At the time I was still commuting and I was not involved in community at all. I think it was actually my second meeting, so sorry. So I got to SES in the morning and they haven't started and had a class. I decided let me just go to class. I leave class and he said let me pass by. I was going home, let me just pass by five minutes max. And then shock. So I walk in and I remember, um, there was, this Japanese guy was talking. He's very, very silent.
Speaker 1:He's talking, but he's silent.
Speaker 3:He is, he talks and he's very silent.
Speaker 1:So when he talks, he talks.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:How does it work?
Speaker 3:I have no idea what example to give you. He talks, but you can still feel him silent even when he's talking.
Speaker 1:So he doesn't talk loud, no, no, actually, but neither does he talk.
Speaker 3:Very composed, very serene, very flatline.
Speaker 1:I see that picture, those people who are flat-toned.
Speaker 3:I don't even think it's flat-toned, it's just ambience.
Speaker 4:The level of composure is extreme.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, I would love to meet him.
Speaker 3:You should. So I remember I was struggling to hear him but I could see he was doing a presentation and I could see a rocket. And I was struggling to hear him but I could see he was doing a presentation and I could see a rocket and I was like five minutes turns into ten minutes.
Speaker 3:I can stay for this one. And then a very tall gentleman stands and is introduced to be a student and he's the one who's leading this project and he talks so passionately about the kind of things they're building with rockets. 10 minutes ended up being him and the entire presentation, and I remember I was at the door so I told myself I'm not going to let this opportunity pass me by. So, as they were leaving, I just dashed out Hi, how are you? My name is Jinhoof and I would like to. I would like to join the program.
Speaker 1:Thanks yeah, so were they like pitching for people to?
Speaker 3:do? They were they were. So what happened it? Uh, it was an introduction or, uh, basically a presentation of nakuja and what the kind of work they were doing. So the japanese man was our supervisor, dr shoya awoki, and the young gentleman was washington Kamadi, who was our leader, was the leader of Nakuja at the time.
Speaker 1:So, um so, so what is Nakuja? You know? Nakuja in Swahili means I'm coming.
Speaker 3:Which makes sense if you think about it, because that rocket will go and come back.
Speaker 1:Do they have that in mind when they're saying Nakuja I generally?
Speaker 3:wish, I knew, but it's not a Japanese. It is a Swahili word, because there's also a country project that's Jubebe for electric vehicles. So yeah, we would like to meet the people who gave them these names. We really would.
Speaker 2:There's also a country project that's Jubebe for electric vehicles. So yeah, we would like to meet the people who gave them these names. We really would.
Speaker 3:That's incredibly creative, is it they are? Is it creative? Think about it. Jubebe makes you carry yourself right, because it's an electric vehicle.
Speaker 2:It's very straightforward, it's so ingenious.
Speaker 3:The rocket. It's genius.
Speaker 4:Exactly, jubebe, it's so ingenious the rocket, it's genius, so Tipeba is also happening at. J-quad. Yes, yes, okay, is it working or yes, it is, it is.
Speaker 1:It is. I love how you guys are in harmony on this, because it's true, and passionately, we've seen it working. We've seen it in the project Taifa laptop. You guys are doing assembling.
Speaker 3:Which.
Speaker 1:I had an issue with, because I believe you guys could be able to collaborate with the capacitor.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, true, true, true.
Speaker 1:I'm also a believer of collaboration, because working in silos mostly delivers.
Speaker 3:It doesn't, it really really doesn't.
Speaker 1:But anyway. So Nakuja is a project around rockets that can actually land themselves.
Speaker 3:Yes, for now it's we're building. They're called amateur rockets, so they're not the SpaceX level kind of rocketry yeah. And rocketry is like tucked. So there's model rockets and there's amateur rockets, and then now we go into more commercial and large scale rocketry. So we're basically an amateur rocketry group. We build rockets from scratch. That is inclusive of the propellant, which is very interesting if you did chemistry, if you like, mixing things up and seeing things burn, Please, please please.
Speaker 1:I said we are grade two, sorry. Now, when you talk about chemistry and this is chemicals, right, and now they react with each other to create some proportion right yeah how is this? What is this mixed together? You know, because the the earliest I think people get engage with chemistry is when they take the matchstick. They load it on the wire.
Speaker 4:That is on a bike.
Speaker 1:I don't know what to call that wire. You know the wire that holds the rim from collapsing.
Speaker 4:The spool Is this called a spool Spook.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the spook, that's the right one. So there's a way we used to carve it as young boys Then use a nail and a thread and then we put the powder, the matchstick powder, which actually lights the matchstick, and then we place the nail on top of that and then we hit it against a stone or something and then it produces like a pop sound, like a bullet. And I think still boys do that, or I don't know if it's boys or guys.
Speaker 3:I've actually never even heard of that. That's very interesting.
Speaker 1:It still happens, because during sorry say that again- this is something I'll be trying soon.
Speaker 2:No absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's fun, but also you might get into trouble. So I see most people try it during Christmas or New Year because there's so much fireworks happening so you're not disturbed.
Speaker 3:You can join in the fun Before the fireworks, especially in Mombasa.
Speaker 1:You know something's happening, but you're not seeing the fireworks. That's why I'm assuming these are boys being boys or girls. These are girls being girls, but given it's late at night, I highly doubt girls are doing that, but you never know. It's a. It's a. It's a change of world so that's. That's the closest, I think earliest age and then when you understand chemistry, and you see, potassium react with what. What triggers potassium?
Speaker 3:water. What's that water? Remember?
Speaker 4:this is like we have a chemistry engineer. Yeah, we have a. We have a chemical engineer, we have a proper chemical engineer Oliver should tell us, because we have four mics.
Speaker 3:I remember Potessi used to dart around the surface of water with a pop sound.
Speaker 1:He's highly reactive with water. So when you think about all these things are fun In the COVID, they're really, really fun so when I hear you talk about proportion. Now, even me, I'm interested in rocket science. So I also think science should be fun.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 1:I know it requires resources for sure, but it should be fun enough that this reminds me of something very interesting that I did after university. So I used to run C4D Computing for Development and there was this startup called FunkySci and we met them at the Innovate Nairobi. They were one of the presenters. I didn't get to interact with them, but it started back in the day, I think, 2014. And what they were trying to do is make science fun to kids so they could go do an experiment.
Speaker 1:of course, parents pay some fee and that, I think, also brought children close to science and like it from the fun side of things, because science mostly is presented as this odd thing that you know. You don't even understand why you need to learn some of this. But now you've talked about proportion. So what happens in that propulsion? Because most of us, even scientists, like us. We see starlink launch some rocket and then there's a lot of fire and then it cuts it's.
Speaker 2:What do you call it?
Speaker 1:it's cut off. Then something else happens and to some extent there is no fire yeah so that fire is what? Where the chemical?
Speaker 3:reaction is happening. So what actually happens around it? Mostly what will happen is you'll have a lot of kinetic energy. You have a lot of build up of energy, and the best thing about energy is that it's able to propagate itself for a long time. So that's where you find that once, for instance, in this more commercial rocket, you'll have it burn for a. In this more commercial rocket, you'll have it burn for a while, ignite out the fire mostly it's usually liquid hydrogen and then have that energy propel itself for a while, so that when you're able to cut it off to around 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 kilometers, it's still able to continuously propel itself. So for us, being that we don't go to such high distances, we basically just build very small not very small, but just small enough compact propellant, basically cooking potassium sorbitol. It's called KNSB Potassium nitrate sorbitol.
Speaker 1:So potassium, what's the second one? Sorbitol is a chemical. It's a chemical by itself, okay.
Speaker 3:And so cooking it and just mixing it together. We should actually share this video of how people actually cook Please, yes, yes. I will Of just making and then now compacting it, so just placing it into very tight packets. So if you have seen, these are things we used to play with when we were kids that used to light up like fireworks.
Speaker 4:Not fair.
Speaker 3:Which ones they even bought. They're usually red, they're very red things with a thread, and then you just light it up and it's Maruti, maruti, yes, so you guys are so bougie.
Speaker 1:You used to buy those things to just play with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you used to make them.
Speaker 1:Oh, you used to make them.
Speaker 3:No me, I never used to make them. No me anything I played with.
Speaker 1:I used to make it For real.
Speaker 3:Yeah, except Bantai, you don't know if you know Banta Bano? Yeah, bano, that's so interesting. I used to play them, for, like we used even to make a.
Speaker 1:I'm sharing too much. We used to make even wire cars model. Like you would see, nissan Sunny was a big deal then, until nowadays you have a.
Speaker 3:Nissan Sunny. Build an Audi of a Nissan Sunny, bill and Woody.
Speaker 1:But Nissan Sunny, we could see it. You know how they pimped it to have even some nice sporty looking, you know. And then Safari Lally was big, so we could see some nice model and then make them and then sell them to other kids, like when you're driving it. A kid okay, a bougie kid sees that car or that wire or whatever they used to use a. They're called what Wire mesh.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:So when they cry for it, the parent has to buy it and be like how much is this? Give us like 500. And then 500 was really good money and then you make another one right. So those are some of the things that you used to make. I have a brother who is a proper engineer. He even started making radios when he was I don't know, plus six or seven.
Speaker 1:But unfortunately he didn't pursue it as a career. He could really make a really good electrical engineer, but for me I was the guy who used to be made things and I was the luckiest guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then you were selling them now.
Speaker 1:Me I was more of a silent kid. I was the luckiest guy. Yeah, then you were selling them. Now Me, I was more of a silent kid. I was a last born, so you can imagine. Of course, everything was done for me Especially, but I could do it If I wanted to. So I think you can See what is happening here, but I used to see this actually happen in real time and I was so fascinated Like how could you be able even to think and shape those wires to really form?
Speaker 4:right angles.
Speaker 1:No, this one will go, this one, and then tie it using the tube. You know they got the bladders from the bicycle tube or car tubes.
Speaker 4:Oh, the black ones.
Speaker 1:Actually some of them were like brownish, so they could actually make different colors of those cars, because they could tie all the wires using those bladders and their car could really look neat. Some of them were as strong as carrying a kilogram of sugar and you're driving it. Some ingenuity right there it's crazy, like that's why I believe africans again. If we really, if we really are in this ingenuity, we could not be buying cars, you know, we could actually be making our own cars anything else, but at the end of the day we'll get there I'm so sure about it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, when we talk about this, you're like ah, did you make these things? But anyway, I understand why you could buy it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the time I did not know where my life would take me. So basically, yeah, just pack them up, then fire them out. So as you fire it out, it produces actually fire and also a lot of energy as it combusts. So that energy is what propels it.
Speaker 1:So how far do you propel those rockets?
Speaker 3:We have iterations, so for each iteration we have a different goal. So the first one was 50 meters. We got to 32 meters. The second one was a target goal of 500 meters. We got to over 200 meters.
Speaker 4:And then.
Speaker 3:now we're at two kilometers, target of two kilometers. Now the target is two kilometers. The current iteration now is two kilometers. So let me ask this.
Speaker 1:So when you target this, do you do the calculation of the?
Speaker 4:mix-up.
Speaker 1:How long it will take to burn and how do you go about this? Do you like burn it and see how far it will burn? Do you create an environment that this chemical will burn Because different?
Speaker 4:environments will burn this Differently for sure.
Speaker 3:So the best thing about all this is that space has become democratized, so there's a lot of information out there, right? So that's usually the first step. So there are equations that have been made publicly available. There are data sets that have been made publicly available.
Speaker 1:By SpaceX or everyone.
Speaker 3:By SpaceX, by Richard Naka, by us. For instance, nakuja is also open source. So you want to build a rocket? You can just follow documentation, build your own iteration of a rocket, right? So there are so many other organizations, both student and open source, and rather commercial organizations, that have made this open source. So, basically, using data sets, you're able to one learn, and using equations, you're then also to. You're also then able to predict how, what one, what you want and what you need to get to. You're also then able to predict how, what one, what you want and what you need to get to what you want right? So first, the first step of everything is usually sitting down going back to your equations, going back to your chemistry, going back to your physics, going back to your mechanical because again, there's also a lot of mechanics that comes into play.
Speaker 3:So, going back into the nitty-gritty, of all that um, then from there you're able to say so, we wanted to get to 50 meters. So how much of potassium do we need? How much of subitol do we need to be able to propel, and for how long do we need to burn it for for us to get to 50 meters? How long do we need to burn it for for us to get to 2 kilometers? How big do we need it for it to burn to 2 kilometers Again? There's also now the and I think this now comes into now questions of systems engineering, because there's also a concern of weight, because you don't want it to be very heavy, because then otherwise you'll reduce your target. It's called an apogee, the maximum height you want to get to. It'll reduce your apogee. If your rocket is too heavy, right? If it's too light, then it might not burn very, it might actually even burn up. So there's like so many intricacies that we now want to now look into.
Speaker 1:Have you ever carried someone in that rocket?
Speaker 3:No, you can't even put your hand. You can't even put your hand in it.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking out loud, then it doesn't come back. Has any of those come back, landed safely?
Speaker 3:Safely.
Speaker 4:It's a relative.
Speaker 3:We're working on it Safety is very, very important, but unfortunately we haven't ever been able to deploy parachutes because ideally we would want to have parachutes. So for all our iterations we haven't been successful in deploying parachutes. But this current iteration we are very, very hopeful because we have done a little bit more tests, we have done a little bit more simulations, we have done a little bit more simulations and more live testing and the likes. So we're actually very excited to launch because we want to see whether it works.
Speaker 1:Oh nice. I believe Elon Musk, if you're listening, is a girl who can use expertise around here, but also you must believe that if they have done something, they should open source it. And I think most of it is open source. And they have done all these things actually successfully. You guys, do you use some of that knowledge or not?
Speaker 3:We do, but contextually Understand that they're having very big rockets and the propellant they're using right now is actually liquid propellant, not solid propellant. So for us you can either have it as liquid or solid.
Speaker 1:So your packets are solid. Solid, yes, and you ignite them and then yes.
Speaker 3:So you can either have your propellant to be either solid or liquid.
Speaker 1:So liquid is more complex because you have to release it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with pressure with compression you're looking at things like nozzles, so it's a bit more complex, but is it more?
Speaker 3:efficient it is. It is more efficient especially the further up you go, or like, the further higher you go, it is more efficient. So ideally currently for okay, I will get to that. So with SpaceX, some of the data, most of the data is actually Open source, but we use it Contextually what works for us. So, for instance, things like the avionics systems Do work for us right, because we'll see that the kind of data that they're collecting here Is also the kind of data that we need. So for avionics systems, we can use that.
Speaker 3:But for propulsion, then comes a bit of a concern. With airframe also comes a bit of a concern because they're using very small rockets, but we do use data. So currently we have this Okay, we're funded by Joica and for final layer, you can actually do your final layer project. So I have a friend of mine whom they actually two groups actually are working on building a liquid engine for future uses. So they're actually in touch and in conversation with some SpaceX engineers so that they're able to. They actually, I think, have meetings almost on a weekly basis just to share information or like to also understand.
Speaker 1:You should be building these things. Sorry, you should be building these things.
Speaker 3:Yes, we should you you should.
Speaker 3:Okay, my interest, my interest is not in liquid propulsion, it's not in propulsion, it's in the avionics system, in the computer, in the brain, yes, in the computing time. So again, there's so many the nuances in even in that rocket system. So we, for instance, for us, we have a propulsion propulsion team, so both solid and liquid. We have an airframe team, so the basic framework, how the body looks like, how the fins will be placed, you know, know how it will look like, what material to be used, and then there's also now the computing and the brain behind it. What kind of data are we going to be collecting, for how long? How are we going to be deploying our parachute? You know. So that's now where my interest lies and how is that working out Very fun, very, very fun.
Speaker 3:I like failing.
Speaker 4:But I understand also with Rocket the margin should be really thin on zero.
Speaker 1:Of course zero is impossible, but it should be really, really thin, because you can imagine if I wanted a rocket to land in Kisumu and then it lands in Kampala.
Speaker 4:That's a big problem. So, many issues.
Speaker 1:They can cause war yeah for sure. If someone was in that rocket maybe like June, well-educated, charismatic then they burst into flame out there. That's a life lost, or we send you to the moon and then we can't bring you back.
Speaker 4:We can't bring you back Because now the software Take you to the moon. It's actually a good interesting movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's so many things that actually, when you think about them practically you see why error is not allowed.
Speaker 4:True.
Speaker 1:Or maybe it should be minimal. Have you ever thought of becoming an astronaut?
Speaker 3:At one point I did, but I think I like being on ground with Earth, more I like to feel the you know the ground, the sand.
Speaker 1:But there's ground and the moon and Mars, yeah.
Speaker 3:If you do get there. I'm not saying it won't, but you know, I'm just I'm not very incentivized to want to become an astronaut for now. Yes, let it be said. For now I want to build systems that go to Mars. One day I want to build systems that go to mass. But you remember One day, I feel like I'd want to let the first iteration of guys go to mass. How's that?
Speaker 4:going.
Speaker 2:Just you know you don't want to be the test subject. I can't.
Speaker 3:I'm a baby girl, I'm children. I will die.
Speaker 1:We're not taking you to mass. But one thing I've seen with Elon is that for sure people, he is going to mass. You know when he talked about landing back the space back, I think in before 2010, I can't be sure when everyone thought he's mad. I know NASA actually was almost. The government was suing him for even thinking. But look at it right now, when he said it will change the way people access the internet people thought he's joking.
Speaker 4:He has he talked about changing social media, people thought that's another joke.
Speaker 1:Twitter. He changed Twitter, he did. Okay, it's debatable, but you can see a lot of things and that's a drive that I feel like most Africans have. Elon is African, let no one tell you otherwise, if he's not, maybe he has drank African water, I hear. By the way, there is power in water there is power in the water. There is power in the water, someone who is more knowledgeable than I am not from school, though they told me actually people speak the way they speak because of the water they drink.
Speaker 1:Are you serious? Yeah, To some extent. By the way, you see how you're thinking about it for a minute.
Speaker 3:Let me ask. So then, if I go take water in Kisii or in Mombasa, I'll speak different.
Speaker 1:Not immediately, but over time. You have never noticed. If you go to, it's debatable though, so don't discuss it. But have you ever noticed when you go to Mombasa, for some reason your accent changes.
Speaker 3:I think it's actually ingrained in us for your accent to change Ever had someone come back from India with an. Indian accent To some extent. To some extent, yeah, to the huge extent that people do go to.
Speaker 1:Mombasa for two days and come back with an accent. It can be debated this way Don't look at the underlying factors.
Speaker 4:You know, I want to speak like Goste Look at it this way.
Speaker 1:Already you have the accent that you acquired over time right so of course you're not expecting the next day ah these are Muswaili, or these are US or these are you know, an English, whatever, but look even the way, even even here in Kenya, how our dialect you can have a Kali who speaks a little bit different you can have a.
Speaker 1:Kikuyu who speaks a little bit different. You can have a Kikuyu who speaks a bit kidogo, but when you see this, they're divided by the rivers, the way the the rivers flows. Just think about for a minute. You know, at first I was like ah, these stories are java.
Speaker 3:I see that, I see that.
Speaker 1:But it's just, it's just out there. Just think about it. By the way, it made a lot of sense To some extent.
Speaker 3:It does, but I'm not quite sure if it's the water, though but it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the water. As I said, it's the water.
Speaker 3:For instance, I'm Kikuyu right.
Speaker 1:I'm not a Kikuyu, but yeah, okay, I'm a Bantu.
Speaker 3:I'll give you an example of Kikuyu. You'll hear someone speak with a Nyeri accent and you'll be like that's a Nyeri person. And then in Kambu and Murang, especially amongst themselves, you're able to hear the nuances. You're able to hear the nuances.
Speaker 1:And most of those regions are separated by rivers.
Speaker 3:That's what I'm saying. It makes sense. It makes sense, but it's just the region. You look at people a little bit.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, someone can say people interact even in those regions, but it doesn't change how they speak they speak sure yeah, of course, as I said it's debatable. Sylvia is not buying it, she is not buying it and the reason why even I gave it a thought is because there's this research, research that we do over time and it tells us this is the way, and when you investigate further you find oh, by the way, this is the way, so even this one is just something I'm throwing out there for Africans especially because, you see, even for us, we don't even pay attention to our dialect.
Speaker 4:Have you ever realized?
Speaker 1:that, like we speak, the way we speak, so what? But we are trying to learn the Indian accent, the English accent, the US accent, the Japanese accent, and for them, actually, they have gone ahead to document all these dialects and variations. You know like, even when you go to Chinese they have people think just Chinese is Chinese.
Speaker 4:There are several variations Mandarin I don't know what.
Speaker 1:And there's the standardization of these to make sense. And this way, now this becomes even more interesting. I don't know which app I'm using from China and I changed it to Chinese. Wait what?
Speaker 3:It's a Chinese-based app that was in English.
Speaker 1:Yes, Amongst the languages I said why can't I select Chinese? Oh, wow, Okay, I was trying to enable something here and I read somewhere. If you change it to Chinese, automatically you'll find this feature.
Speaker 3:How is that coming for you? How is that coming along?
Speaker 1:It's a good story. Now, changing back, I was almost learning Mandarin and I realized some of these things I'm looking for. They're not written the same, but for someone who doesn't know, it looks the same and also, when I thought about it, about how you pronounce English. We don't even pay so much attention to that, even when you're learning English. It's not even a subject that we sit down and learn but maybe the CBC is teaching that.
Speaker 1:So I realized something can be written differently, to be pronounced differently, and that's what actually helped me, because I was looking for something specific, whereas different, and I was able to change back to English Because I thought, okay, this setting is written this way, language is written this way, and then you go to this and then now you can select, because while under languages, you're able to see English or Spanish or whatever. But it was a very good night. It was at night, actually, it's good that you break things at night if you're a scientist.
Speaker 3:Heard it from him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I don't know why he shared all that, but the languages to some extent goes to that extent. Why do you go to the languages, but anyway? So, besides the proportion, which you're not interested in deeply, but also it comes down to computing, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:So you want to focus on software? Yes, we're talking about margin of error. Yes, yes, yes, we're talking about margin of error. So this is not just another software you write. You have to write it the right way. So how has that been for you?
Speaker 3:I think the best thing for us especially, is how iterative engineering is, you know. So, before we launch, there's a whole task line and a whole workload and a whole process that you need to have done and it's a lot of tests. I'm pretty sure, silver, you had friends who are always talking about I'm going for a test, I'm going for a test. I'm going for a test. You're not going to actually launch the rocket, but you're just going to check is where I am better than where I was yesterday? Is my code working better than how it was yesterday? Is my body better than how it was yesterday? Is my propulsion system better than how it was yesterday?
Speaker 3:So it's very iterative and that provides a very good wiggle room for correcting our failures and learning as we go. So, tomorrow, the kind of problems we experience today and other problems we'll experience tomorrow, right, and documenting it as we go. So you'll find that the problems that the people who are in Nakuja we call the batches N1, n2, n3. So the people who had the issues that the N1 team faced, people who had the issues that the N1 team faced, it's not the issues that N2 team faces, because we're documenting it as we go and we're also saying here's why I failed, so don't do this, so don't do this, Don't follow this, follow this other way, right.
Speaker 3:And now N3 comes along and we document this and we say this is what we've been able to do, this is what we're doing, this is what we have failed at, so help us. But also, at the same time, for N4, don't do the same thing. So it's very iterative and very back and forth. So, ideally, by the time you're going for a launch, you're almost certain that your margin of error has reduced significantly. But also, you can't take away the fact that whatever can go wrong will go wrong. But yeah, we try to reduce the number of wrongs.
Speaker 1:Murphy's law.
Speaker 3:Yes, Murphy's law for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, given this issue, which language do you guys use?
Speaker 3:Mostly C C++ Python.
Speaker 1:You guys use Python.
Speaker 3:MicroPython from time to time.
Speaker 1:There's a reason why I'm laughing.
Speaker 3:Why? Why are you laughing?
Speaker 1:Python is crazy, especially at scale.
Speaker 4:In terms of error.
Speaker 1:actually, and that's what's good with data, because the data allows you to do a lot of crazy stuff with errors.
Speaker 2:And still works.
Speaker 1:Because that's what's good with data, because the data allows you to do a lot of crazy stuff with errors and still works, because that's essentially what you're measuring in data is the margin of error, the margin of error, so you're expecting it. But it's fascinating you guys use C and C++ because the way C is designed, it's either 0 or 1, which makes it really good C++. Why C++? Why C++?
Speaker 3:though, again, most of it, you'll realize, is you build for the hardware you are going to be using. So you'll find that the hardware you're using is compatible with probably C or C++ so then it becomes easier then to build up of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's a huge opportunity in rocket science.
Speaker 4:For sure.
Speaker 3:I was checking.
Speaker 4:Starlink the other day.
Speaker 1:Right, it's just that they're hiring in the US. I wish they were hiring in.
Speaker 3:Africa? No, that one.
Speaker 1:Elon was very straightforward. You can't do remote.
Speaker 4:He's the first guy who said people should get back to the office or get another job and it's good to be straightforward, because how do you develop a rocket in your house?
Speaker 1:or build a software and then send, and if it there is error. This is not where you just say you know what next week's sprint will fix.
Speaker 3:The first, and I think it's because there's a lot of like and even if you watch some of the ninis, some of the launches, it's usually now they have learned the art of building first. Before it used to take time because they used to keep on failing and have to go back to the drawing board. And it becomes very difficult to do that when you're doing it remotely, because they'll send you a whole rocket remotely, because they'll send you a whole rocket.
Speaker 1:Musk himself used to spend hours and hours in the garage, not even in the office in the garage, especially with Tesla Now imagine rockets. So it was very clear that especially it started with his executives and Atlassian, which is work from whatever. But of course I see where it's coming from, because everything starts from the leadership. I'm not saying actually working remotely is totally bad, but there are some things actually, if you really want true results and get them efficiently, you have to be physically there, not the office.
Speaker 2:Physically outside, you see, when you see the office Physically outside, for, yeah, outside you see when you see the office, there's this analog yeah, like office desk no, no City desk.
Speaker 1:Like styling. Most of their offices are workshops.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's exactly it.
Speaker 1:Workshop is your office and something about you?
Speaker 4:I don't know if you have checked this.
Speaker 1:He has tried to roboticize everything. When you say robot, they can work 24 hours seven days a week, 365 days, and they're reliable as long as your code really works, programmed it well, you know yeah. But of course he realized that is not sustainable. He went to.
Speaker 4:China and.
Speaker 1:Vietnam to open. Yeah, maybe we should talk more about Elon next time.
Speaker 3:You should, I think I'd really like the way he looks. He's very radical in his thoughts but smart exactly stretches your fabric of thoughts what's the worst?
Speaker 1:do you think marijuana contributes to that?
Speaker 4:oh, you know that you come from Jamaica.
Speaker 3:I know that I come from Jiqua, not Jujua.
Speaker 2:We'll have it on record.
Speaker 3:You have it on record. I don't know, I don't know. Again, I like to say if I don't have a frame of reference, then I can't answer a question. I don't have a frame of reference.
Speaker 1:It's because there is also this controversy.
Speaker 3:And it's here.
Speaker 1:Why the Jujube engineers are really good is because of the availability of is it cannabis Sativa?
Speaker 3:Sativa Marijuana is cannabis sativa.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The availability, the quality and the affordability.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 1:That's why it's called Jamaica. And of course, even Elon has, like he does, smoke live, it's easy, like for him it's like okay, you know, don't do it, but you know if you do it, it's not all bad, but don't do it yeah, he has done that several times and he has really given some crazy points when he does that?
Speaker 1:So I'm like okay, but also I would not advise anyone to use any kind of drug for that matter, especially if you're not sure how to work for you. But also I'm changing that a bit because we have seen it getting legalized and not. You know when you're growing up, if you smoke this thing you'll go mad. But I've not seen the whole US go mad, but it's the UK?
Speaker 3:I don't think the United. States is the best framework.
Speaker 1:It's not the best standard, but it has always been legal in Netherlands.
Speaker 3:It has, yeah For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the first country I traveled to and you know those, they call coffee shops. You go and buy your thing, you know those they call coffee shops. You go and buy your thing, you know either edible or otherwise you have some good time. Like one of the biggest tourists is the people who come over on the weekend just to you know have a good time. It's one of the countries where they have legalized that among us, you know the Europe members.
Speaker 1:So when you think about it, it's like should I? By the way, guys, don't use it if you don't have to. You're good the way you are, you know. But you know someone else brought another debate around that you know tea is also a drug.
Speaker 3:For sure, coffee is a drug 100%, depending on how you look at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so anything overused, of course it will cause problems, including ugali and skuma wiki. That is relative, yeah, so parting shot, june, let's start, even with Sylvia. Parting shot for our audience.
Speaker 2:So parting shot I love this new generation.
Speaker 2:Let's start even. We're parting shots for our audience. So parting shots. I love this new generation in the tech space. Yeah, I love the steps and the strides and the mindset change that is coming about, which is very evident even in your story, how you're seeing people do things. If I was to tell my parents that you know, in my school we're building rockets, they'd be confused. You're not in jquart. You know what's going on and this is the change that we love to see. I have friends, many friends, who've been in nakujan, so I've seen you guys really put in the work and do the tests in the field and then fail and record and that's the progress. So love to see it. Yeah, your journey is very interesting and I'm sure someone sitting somewhere is thinking about how do I go about this? I'm here. Is there someone who's gone through this journey and hopefully that person will get to see it.
Speaker 2:And realize that they can do a lot.
Speaker 1:So I love to see it.
Speaker 2:Parting shots. What is my main takeaway? I love the mindset shift, so I will.
Speaker 3:I will take that with me all right, I'm supposed to go yes, please okay, parting shot.
Speaker 3:Um, let me start with how, before even set a parting shot, it's probably going to be a story, okay, and uh, motivation to all of us. Okay, I met mk through community and, um, it was actually one of my biggest communities that I have joined, um, besides university, and then that also led me into other communities. And if there's anything that I will underscore is build in public, build in public, learn in public. Don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to look like a failure, because I think those are two different things. Don't be, don't feel as though you can't trust someone else with your dream or your visions, or your people are out, especially in this tech space. And what you're saying about mindsets is it's very important, because people were not looking at things differently.
Speaker 3:Now looking at life differently and realizing we don't have to build in a silo. I don't have to build in a vacuum. I don't have to learn in a vacuum. I don't have to experience life a silo. I don't have to build in a vacuum. I don't have to learn in a vacuum. I don't have to experience life in a vacuum.
Speaker 3:Talk about it, right. Talk about the projects you're working on. It might seem silly to you, but it really isn't. It's a starting point to something else. Right, talk about the kind of failures you're going through, because it's out of that that someone else comes and shows you the way. Right? If, for instance, let's even assume you're all programmers, right, let's imagine we didn't have documentation, because that's also one good example of community. Let's just imagine we didn't have documentation or didn't have Stack Overflow. Yeah, think about that one, you know.
Speaker 3:So don't be afraid to talk about the kind of problems you're experiencing, because it paves way for providing answers. And if you have an answer, don't sit with it. Sure, write papers, write articles, speak in public, you know. Go to conference talks, write books, if you may, because the only way we're able to tell our stories is if we actually let them out. The only way you're able to help someone stories is if we actually let them out. The only way you're able to help someone is if you actually provide that helping hand. So, on the one hand, don't be afraid to ask. On the other hand, also don't be afraid to provide answers. So, yeah, this has been an interesting one.
Speaker 1:I really liked it Awesome, thank you. By the way, talking about sharing, you'll be presenting at Africa's Talking Summit 2023.
Speaker 3:I did not think you saw that.
Speaker 4:Yes, I will yeah, yeah, and I like when people give me that yeah, like ah, okay, it's kind of fascinating myself.
Speaker 1:I'm the guy who yeah, who you not think I normally tell people don't follow me, kind of fascinating myself. Yeah, yeah, I'm the guy who, yeah, who, who, who you not think I normally tell people don't follow me, I'm lost.
Speaker 3:But you act like the underdog. I'm an underdog. Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So I'll give a, an African proverb Okay, from Ethiopia, okay.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I learned this from and I have to give credit from Spice FM in the morning, from the city. The other one is the city and who else? You don't listen to this so one of the radios actually that is changing the conversation it is. And, by the way, if they are listening to me, please bring all politicians.
Speaker 4:We want to hear from innovators you know everyone, and that bring our politicians. We want to hear from innovators. You know everyone. That's one thing I like you listen to it right and it's some sober sober conversation.
Speaker 1:But they give proverbs and I thought, why not? Proverbs are good, they present you as a wise person.
Speaker 4:No no, they give wisdom.
Speaker 1:So here is a proverb from Ethiopia. It says what is inflated too much will burst into fragments, and I feel like it relates to what we are talking about rockets. And it says this this is the explanation, but maybe in future you should be asking our guests like how these guys? You know that's what they do.
Speaker 1:They give up like what do you think they are probably? So then they give them in, but for me I'll be easy. So, one who thinks very highly of oneself is said to have a big head You've never heard of that. If you let your ego grow and you boost all the time, eventually you'll not be able to live up to it. Ego will shatter. In a sense, the same is true for substances as a substance eats up or we cook it. Substances as a substance eats up or we cook it, the particles vibrate faster and expand If the particles are contained they will exert more and more pressure.
Speaker 4:Rocket scientists.
Speaker 1:On the substance containing them, the container may eventually burst. That's a very good proverb. When I think about it, I feel like a rocket scientist, but anyway.
Speaker 3:Chemical engineer in the house.
Speaker 1:He's in the house, so my parting shot will be very easy. I normally tell this to myself. With 1 billion people across Africa, when you think about that, 70% of those which is around and actually it's more actually right now is more than 800,000, 800 million people. Youth which is 35 and below. Even younger because they they call it what the mean age is 35 and below. Even younger because they they call it what the mean age is around 19 now.
Speaker 1:It shows two things. One it's either we perish all of us or we make it all of us. And I believe in making all of us, making it all of us, because for me it's a matter of if you have an opportunity, you have a skill, why not share that skill? It's better off when everyone has access to that as opposed to just one. Like you should have so many point of failures as opposed to one, and I think every engineering, any engineering you go to, that's one thing that you're taught to create.
Speaker 3:Many points of failures.
Speaker 1:So that by the time the last point of failure is failing the first one is fixed.
Speaker 1:So, anyone in Africa, don't give up, don't feel like. You know. I was born in Karamonjong, karamoja, and you know this is it. There's so much out there and it doesn't matter where you are across the African continent. It's a matter of you having that self-drive, because you have seen the most unlikely engineers from northern Nigeria, where there's been Boko Haram for the longest, and they are spreading this thing across Nigeria. We have seen the most best engineers come from Egypt, which actually relies on Nile for the longest, and they are spreading this thing across Nigeria. We have seen the most best engineer come from Egypt, which actually relies on Nile and among many other things. So it can be done, it should be done and we will do it. We will do it for sure, and thank you so much, june, for honoring our show.
Speaker 3:Thank you for inviting me. It was fun.
Speaker 1:It was really nice inviting me to come to Street Night and for our listeners, this is where we come to an end. Don't forget to subscribe like comment and if you like June to be our guest again, please let us know. June is just starting this by the way guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure no voting.
Speaker 1:Making it as a joke making it as a joke, but ideally we just host movers and shakers guys who are doing big things around tech ecosystem across Africa, telling their stories the way they are, keeping it real and, of course, learning from each other. I hope you have enjoyed. Until next time, see you so so. Thank you.
