Impact Masters Podcast
We focus on the tech ecosystem by creating and disseminating knowledge. We tell authentic stories, acknowledging and preserving history, embracing civilization, and encouraging technology and innovation. In all this, we point out the impact and the actionable points. At Impact Masters we are disrupting the status quo: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
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Impact Masters Podcast
#41 Impact Master Hope Wanjeri: From Nairobi's Streets to Tech Innovation and Mentorship #africa #womenintech #podcast #inspiration #community
What does it take to rise from the bustling streets of Nairobi to becoming a force in the tech industry? Meet Hope Wanjeri, a dynamic tech developer whose journey is nothing short of inspiring. From her early days in Ruaka to her impressive roles at KCA University and Moringa School, Hope's story is a testament to the power of resilience and community support. Listen as Hope recounts her formative years, her academic pursuits, and the milestones that have shaped her career, including being a GHC 23 Scholar and a Microsoft Learn Student Ambassador.
Walk with us through Hope's nostalgic memories of school life, from mischievous nursery days to the challenges and triumphs of boarding high school. We explore the stark contrasts between public and private education in Kenya, the emotional roller coaster of transitioning to high school, and the significant impact of language curriculum issues on cultural identity. Hope's candid reflections provide a window into the everyday realities and social dynamics of Kenyan schooling, shedding light on the importance of a balanced approach to language education.
Our conversation also delves into Hope's experiences at KCA University, the vibrant tech events she attended, and the invaluable role of tech communities in her growth. Discover how hackathons, mentorship, and community engagement have been pivotal in overcoming gender challenges in the tech industry. As we conclude, Hope emphasizes the critical importance of mentorship in engineering and the empowering potential of tech communities like Africa's Talking Women in Tech. This episode is a powerful narrative of perseverance, community, and the relentless pursuit of one's passions in the tech world.
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All right, welcome and welcome back to today's podcast, a collaboration between Africa's Talking Podcast and Impact Masters Podcast. This is the space to bring you all the big names, all the movers and the shakers in the tech ecosystem. What does Africa's Talking do, you may ask. Glad you did. We are out here powering communication solutions across Africa, that is, across the continent, by providing developers with our robust set of APIs, which span across SMS, voice, ussd, airtime and data. That being said, welcome to the space and feel free to like, subscribe and share this with your networks. On today's episode, we'll be featuring a budding developer in the tech ecosystem, eager to hear her story Without further ado. I am Sylvia Jebet, developer relations from Africa's Talking, ready to get the conversation started. Alongside me is my colleague MK.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, sylvia, this is MK, or my colleague, if you want, mad, if you want. And uh, as uh, sylvia, my man knows today, uh, today I'm sitting on the uh conductors is this conductors or co-driver seat code driver driver seat and listening to the ladies you know, and also contributing as well. Uh, but welcome once again, uh, to this podcast today. Uh of today, we have one and only one and only.
Speaker 3:Op Wanjeri. Hi, yes, yes, yes. So, Op, as Sylvia introduced her, she's a budding developer, but of course, beyond that, you want to know who is Hope. You know where did this Hope start from right. As well as you know, she has done amazing stuff. She's GHC. I don't know what that means, but she'll tell us about it. Ghc 23 Scholar. Uiux Designer, Microsoft Learn Student Ambassador, GDSC Co-Leader at KCA University, AWS Certified Cloud Practitioner. Azubi Graduate Moringa School Campus Ambassador. And actually most people know Drew Moringa School. Yesterday we had a guest who actually remembered her from those initiatives, but yeah.
Speaker 3:AWS Restart Graduate. And one thing about Hope is that when she engages she's like all in, so she'll give us some tips about that, but ideally welcome. Thank you, Hope. How are you today?
Speaker 4:I'm good. How are you? Good, good, good, good. Thank you for having me. Yeah, You're welcome.
Speaker 3:It's been a bit right. You've been saying we'll do this for now. I don't know how many months, but today it's happening. Good to have you as our guests. How are you, though?
Speaker 4:I'm doing very well, thank you. I'm so glad to be here, nice shooting location.
Speaker 1:Good view eh.
Speaker 4:Very good.
Speaker 3:We're happy that you're happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Thank you and we hope that we'll learn more from you, so Hope. Where did all this start?
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like where did you, where are you born?
Speaker 4:You want to know more about it. The whole journey the whole yes yes, yes Right from the word go yes, I hope you're ready Three hours.
Speaker 3:We don't mind Okay.
Speaker 4:So I was born in Nairobi.
Speaker 3:I have which part in Nairobi.
Speaker 4:St Mary's Hospital.
Speaker 3:That is in East London, langata.
Speaker 4:I have one sister, my mom my dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it your first born, last born First born.
Speaker 4:Yes, team first born, that's where the drive comes from.
Speaker 3:So did you grow up? Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4:I grew up in Raqqa, still in Raqqa. Yes, that's where I grew up With my mom, my sister and my dad.
Speaker 3:Very nice and you're so brave, so if you would really expand so that doesn't sound like you know, this is a question and answer kind of conversation. It's your story and people would love to know more in terms of you know who you are really beyond you know all these Ula Malu of AWS good Lambalu of AWS, good UI UX Because we also believe that our formative growing up story actually forms some of it.
Speaker 3:Someone might see Hope as self-driven, always showing up, always standing up for ladies, always trying to teach and all that but, they don't really know, and sometimes the better part of it is that there's someone maybe who is at that stage where you don't want to tell. So that's why we go all the way back and keep it raw and just be open about it, if you're okay with that.
Speaker 2:Because of course.
Speaker 3:I also know that people are also okay sharing about who they are, because also, people are judgmental, but we don't judge. So please tell us how was it growing up? Tell us the fun story. What do you remember about? Did you go to kindergarten or CVC?
Speaker 4:Or PP1?
Speaker 3:Kindergarten or nursery, oh kindergarten.
Speaker 4:Me. I'm a nursery school kind of guy Exactly.
Speaker 3:Same you went to nursery school Now, we didn't know that about you.
Speaker 4:So, tell us about it.
Speaker 3:How was your first day in school?
Speaker 4:That was a long time ago. I don't think I can remember my first day in school like kindergarten. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:That's the story you want to hear.
Speaker 4:Okay, I was too small. Okay, I remember my teacher's name I was too young.
Speaker 3:How old do people go to Kidagata?
Speaker 4:Oh, I was two and a half.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's too minor yeah.
Speaker 4:I was two and a half.
Speaker 3:You know, nursery school people go at around six years.
Speaker 2:Eh yeah, my nursery school. We went at three.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cbc maybe or something, but from what I know, maybe this is news to you guys, so you used to like touch your ear.
Speaker 2:Maybe you've seen that joke a lot, but it was not a joke.
Speaker 3:That's how you could know this person can be accepted in nursery school or not. So if you can touch your ear, then you're okay to go to nursery school, and then that is six years thereabouts. And then now from there you go to nursery school, and then that is six years they are about, and then now from there you go to class one. Right now people even spend like three years in like PP1, pp2 or something.
Speaker 2:It's three years in nursery, that's now what is called kindergarten. Or nursery, but just that first stage of school. Yeah, it's about three or two years.
Speaker 3:That's now maybe something else. It's not nursery. Nursery is just one year.
Speaker 4:Grade one, then you go to grade one. No grades, it was class one to class eight.
Speaker 1:Now it's grades, Like you go to grade one, grade two grade four you graduate, then I don't know, grade five and six you graduate Then what Then?
Speaker 2:you start junior high, junior high, yes, three years, or Three years. Three years Then senior high, three years, then senior high. I don't know if there are CBC experts. They can tell us in the chat.
Speaker 3:But you sound like you guys sound like experts, so I'm just learning also. So how was your? How was that? The getting was two and a half years, huh.
Speaker 4:Yeah, years. Yeah. Then, after joining my school, was called ready for junior academy. Yeah, I was there since primary, then graduated to high school, but I went to St Anne Liyuki. Yeah, oh, wow. Yeah, wanjirunji was there. Yeah, that's why I remembered it.
Speaker 3:Who.
Speaker 2:There's an influencer Instagram and they have a podcast. She's called Wanjiru Njuru.
Speaker 3:Oh, wanjiru Njuru, she went to the same school, ah Is it a high school or primary.
Speaker 4:A high school High school St Hans. St Hans. Yeah, when is it?
Speaker 3:Kiambu Is there a good school. You know, you were telling us.
Speaker 2:We're going too fast. We're in nursery one minute ago.
Speaker 1:Now we're in high school.
Speaker 2:Just take us slowly, tell us about nursery.
Speaker 3:How was that experience? Everyone has a different experience.
Speaker 4:Nursery I can't really remember.
Speaker 3:It's too windy a bit yeah. But go ahead, go ahead, don't mind the wind.
Speaker 4:Hey, okay, in Nassau, I was small, I remember.
Speaker 1:I used to, and be loud if you can, okay.
Speaker 4:I like to play as every other child then.
Speaker 3:So which games did you like? To play your favorite ones. Yeah, today the nature is trying to I don't know what's happening.
Speaker 1:Why did you pass?
Speaker 2:through.
Speaker 1:She's doing the most so tell us the games.
Speaker 4:I like to play hide and seek, chaco chaco. What else my memory? There's no things like kati from ladies.
Speaker 1:You know, kati, right where people throw balls and, by the way, the reason why it's important From late is not a day late. You know, kati, right when people throw balls and there's someone in the middle.
Speaker 3:And, by the way, the reason why it's important even to talk about these games is that I find like kids nowadays, they have you know more.
Speaker 2:Video games.
Speaker 3:Yeah, video games, and also even when they're playing, it's not really Like we're losing the culture, right? Yeah, so did you play the culture, right yeah, so did you play things like Kati.
Speaker 4:Yeah, tapu is also old. Chako, chako.
Speaker 3:It's called Chako Chako.
Speaker 4:Yeah, chako Chako, I didn't seek no, no, no, that's a new game. Chako Chako is. I tap you and then we run, and then we tap the next person and then they run.
Speaker 3:Okay, and what the next person? And then they run and the one who taps what do?
Speaker 4:they do.
Speaker 3:If.
Speaker 4:I tap you, you start running and tap the next one so that you start being chased, the one who taps.
Speaker 3:what do they do?
Speaker 4:They run away, they join the running squad. So say I tap you, you run right Touching.
Speaker 3:Sylvia. What would I be doing?
Speaker 2:Running. Oh, everyone is running all over.
Speaker 3:Anyway.
Speaker 4:I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 4:Okay, another one, another game police and robber.
Speaker 3:How is that played?
Speaker 4:We have the police team and the robber team. It was fun being a robber.
Speaker 3:So is it like you guys like shoot each other or arrest?
Speaker 4:No, we have a place called the cell, so if you are a robber, you're taken to there. Then if someone passes they can free you from jail.
Speaker 3:Passes what.
Speaker 4:Like if we have a cell right, so if a robber comes and taps my hand, I'm free to go.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see, oh interesting, you guys didn't play like hide and seek.
Speaker 4:We did, we did.
Speaker 3:What about rope skipping? It's called what Public van Public van.
Speaker 4:Public van.
Speaker 2:That's the actual term, it's public van.
Speaker 3:Public van. And then what?
Speaker 4:But you used to sing it.
Speaker 3:Of course anyone who was like everyone had their own way of singing it, but of course you guys did that too, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:What about the one that you draw lines on the ground and then you jump and then you're? Kicking the stone, or you throw a stone and then you're like.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Open. I can't even remember the name.
Speaker 3:Maybe not English name, of course.
Speaker 1:Long time, long time.
Speaker 4:Really long time.
Speaker 3:Alright, I won't give my preserved comments. Yeah, but in all these games, what did you learn?
Speaker 4:playing them. Well, it was really fun, Like after studying. It was a nice way of interacting with your friends it was a nice way of spending your time. As a child. We didn't have like phones paired or no smartphones, so it was really what one was this tambo, I'm sick. Kale 1990? No, not that old 2000 and something. No, it was those times when you didn't have smartphones, you only had.
Speaker 1:Catululus.
Speaker 3:Then that must be early 2000, right or almost 2010.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because iPhone came out in 2007, uh, and then, uh, of course, there was some android around and blackberry. Those were the smartphones. So I think by 2005 there were a couple of smartphones. Blackberry was leading the way and then android and then, of course, iphone. So, yeah, so take me through your lower primary school. Are you this kid who is acing everything, fighting everyone, starting trouble, or just where reserved? Okay, Nursery. Not nursery, lower primary.
Speaker 4:But you can talk about nursery. Once I was, can I remember? I think I was mischievous A bit, just a bit. What else did I used to do? I think I just remember I liked playing and meeting new people, traveling.
Speaker 3:Even in class? Yeah, but it's allowed. I think in nursery school people do all this. Did you guys used to sleep during the day?
Speaker 4:It's part of the routine. We never did that, but anyway it's okay, I slept enough.
Speaker 3:Six years is enough time to sleep at home. Now that I think about it, yeah, so you go to now lower primary school, right? How was that transition? Did you go to a different school or the same school?
Speaker 4:Same school.
Speaker 3:The same classmates, so that's not bad.
Speaker 4:The transition was not bad. Yeah, it was very easy.
Speaker 3:Anything you remember vividly now that you're in lower primary school.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember we were with my mom and then she knocked the door and then she was like welcome to class one.
Speaker 3:Your mom was a teacher.
Speaker 2:No In the morning.
Speaker 3:She was taking you to class one, yeah. And then everyone like hey, welcome.
Speaker 4:No, my mom said it before I went to class.
Speaker 3:Was she in or out?
Speaker 4:We were together at the door.
Speaker 3:Oh, she was like celebrating you and a welcome. Yeah, yeah, she was in there like the teacher or something.
Speaker 4:No, she was in there Mom see, we are with you.
Speaker 1:What is?
Speaker 3:this you know, sometimes when your mom is a teacher. There's some way like ah, I saw you in the morning.
Speaker 4:No, she was not a teacher, she just told me come.
Speaker 3:How was that?
Speaker 4:It was nice. Like it felt different, like I noticed there's something different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you got excited.
Speaker 4:Well, you know.
Speaker 3:Yes, so you had friends.
Speaker 4:Oh yes, A lot of friends A lot A mischievous person I must have.
Speaker 3:I was.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:Just a bit Like 10 of them or 20?. No, like I'm talking about the mischievous ones, it was just a bit Most of the kids, okay, not every kid, but most of the kids.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I liked interacting with people.
Speaker 3:I think. I've been an extrovert most of my life.
Speaker 4:So which was your favorite subject at that stage? Let's see, I liked science.
Speaker 3:Science.
Speaker 4:Which sciences no like just science.
Speaker 3:You just had science. Oh, you guys, there was some science, there was a science, that was okay, just science oh nice nice nice and then, uh, you progressed really well yeah to high school.
Speaker 4:Oh, we are still in lower primary take us through this journey.
Speaker 1:I hope it's really hard to get that audience who are listening.
Speaker 2:This is the hardest one, go ahead Because you are mischievous. What activities were you doing in school? Because you are extroverted and social. So I'm sure what were you doing in?
Speaker 4:lower primary. One thing I remember is that I broke my hand. I think that's one of the things I remember While doing what we were carrying a baby on my back, and then I was, I slept, and then I slept on my hand and then I broke my hand.
Speaker 2:This was still while in law primary.
Speaker 4:Plus one.
Speaker 2:You were carrying a baby, yeah, interesting, so you broke your hand. That must have been annoying, because I'm guessing you liked playing the way you said you had a lot of games.
Speaker 4:No, I went back to playing With that thingy on my hand.
Speaker 3:The plaster.
Speaker 2:Didn't stop you.
Speaker 3:That's your sister.
Speaker 4:A random baby. I don't even remember who.
Speaker 3:You love babies, right?
Speaker 4:No, I was just small. I don't even remember who I carried that was a long time ago.
Speaker 3:I hope, if you keep saying long time ago, we'll go chronologically here, this, this will happen the next year, this will happen, actually, actually, if you keep saying we'll go even to months and then days so that we get into that story, when was this?
Speaker 4:well, I can't really remember. Yeah, maybe 2000, 2000 and something I can't remember.
Speaker 3:Maybe I start counting class 1 was 2000 and something.
Speaker 4:I can't remember. Maybe I start counting Class 1 was 2000 and something.
Speaker 3:Okay, alright. Yeah, so you finished your KCP, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:How was that? How did you perform?
Speaker 4:Well, I did well. Okay, of course I wanted more marks. How many marks did you get? Well, I did well. Okay, of course I wanted more marks.
Speaker 1:But how many marks did you?
Speaker 4:get 394.
Speaker 3:That's pretty well, that's good yeah.
Speaker 4:I was happy and sad for the 400, but I was happy.
Speaker 3:But if I think about it, you guys did your exams during Matiangi, right?
Speaker 4:No, no Better. Yeah, it no no Better, ali. Yeah, it was Kaimeni.
Speaker 3:It was Kaimeni. Now you've said Kaimeni oh actually the guy was also Professor Kaimeni, right From the University of Nairobi.
Speaker 1:Yeah, before he became a minister.
Speaker 3:Yeah, before he became a minister he was a professor. Now I remember him actually now that I'm mentioning. So how was that? Because also I remember to some extent, especially the Matiangi. The reason I mention Matiangi is during Matiangi, when you get 394, you should be in the news.
Speaker 1:Not done well.
Speaker 3:You should be in the news you should be making Because grades were choked at that time, the results were, for some reason yeah, for both KCS and KCP it was drastic, really Well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, but you did pretty well. So did you decide to?
Speaker 3:go St Anne. St Anne is public or private. Public, so you are like invited to join. St Anne's Was private, public, so you are like invited to join St Anne's.
Speaker 4:Was I? Yeah, no, at first I was called to Loreto, no.
Speaker 1:Kimbu.
Speaker 4:And then now we switched to St Anne's, since why?
Speaker 3:Or St Anne's is much better than Limuru?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think so. It is yeah, yeah, it's is much better than Limuru. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's better.
Speaker 3:That I know. I wish the other hope was here.
Speaker 2:She'd have something to say. Which other hope?
Speaker 3:The one that we hosted yesterday actually.
Speaker 4:I have a namesake.
Speaker 3:She's in Jigwa doing, I don't know, Telecommunication On the side side she's doing. Now you see, loretto she's doing on the side she's doing robotics, not robotics, actually Rocket science or something. Not rocket science, but rockets. She's building rockets.
Speaker 4:She was in Loretta, kiambu.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she gave us some interesting. Limuru is different from Kiambu. There's the Loretto Kiambu.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and there's Limuru.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay. Then I agree with you. Now you see you're not. I hope you're limiting the information you're giving us, so you're even concluding things that are not there. So please be as expounding.
Speaker 4:Detailed Okay, all right.
Speaker 3:So I never knew there is a Roreto in.
Speaker 4:Nukia, don't worry how many dB SSD 500, 1 dB me, I remember into details since I was nursery.
Speaker 3:That's me, of course. But now when you tell me, and I know when you, since I was in nursery- that's me, of course. But now when you tell me and I have an idea when you finished your primary and your nursery and everything, I'm like, ah, nowadays, maybe Gen Z is control the elite.
Speaker 1:This one is all giving Control the elite, control the elite.
Speaker 3:Anyway. So you went to high school. So so is it a girl's school? Yeah, it's a girl's school.
Speaker 4:High school was very tough the one. The worst, I cried.
Speaker 1:Why did you cry?
Speaker 4:My mom was leaving.
Speaker 2:You had never been in boarding before I was but, but this is high school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are bullies.
Speaker 3:Oh, you got moralized.
Speaker 4:Not really. It was illegal in my school. But, you thought, they thought yeah they thought that should happen. That was the sickest.
Speaker 3:Can you guys get traumatized by the thought that someone is going to monolize you?
Speaker 4:Plus, you're alone. You don't know anyone.
Speaker 3:But you, I mean, even if you're alone, there are several of you Right, the form ones are You're still alone because you don't know them. Okay.
Speaker 4:And you have your bed 3x6. 3 by 6. Say that again 3x6.
Speaker 3:3x, 6. Say that again 3x6. You guys used to have 3x6?.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like the smallest bed.
Speaker 3:I think they are 2 or something. No, 2 and a half. Yeah, 2 and a half Really. The normal standard 3x6 bed is a good bed.
Speaker 1:It's not the high school one.
Speaker 3:I'm like huh.
Speaker 4:No, I disagree. Really, it was a small one.
Speaker 3:Oh, the two by something.
Speaker 4:I feel like not even it's two.
Speaker 1:Two by six or something.
Speaker 3:Thank, you Like if you turn very fast, you might find yourself out of bed On the floor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:So you guys didn't get monolized right.
Speaker 4:No, it was illegal Of course it was illegal.
Speaker 3:Of course it is illegal, everybody is illegal. But you get monolized.
Speaker 4:I think my biggest issue was people stealing your thing. That was the worst. What I was telling these guys that I could not relate.
Speaker 3:I told them when I went to Form 1, guys looked at us like the new bill. The new bill has arrived. You know, what you guys are saying.
Speaker 4:Shopping India like the new bill.
Speaker 3:The new bill has arrived. You know what you guys are saying.
Speaker 2:Shopping.
Speaker 3:Bill.
Speaker 2:Camera.
Speaker 3:No, no, there's a thing that is going around with the new generation about Hini Mbaki or something.
Speaker 4:You have to relate.
Speaker 3:But the point is, when they saw the form ones, they knew that the new shirts have arrived.
Speaker 1:The new mattresses.
Speaker 2:You guys even lost your mattresses, everything.
Speaker 3:So they take and they give you the old ones, or how does it work?
Speaker 4:You're left stranded.
Speaker 3:So they have to find your way, and it's taken lifeline.
Speaker 4:No, no, like you'll go to class when you come back, it's not there.
Speaker 3:So where do you sleep?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I went in the morning, my bed was made. I come back. My bed sheets are just.
Speaker 3:And the way from ones make their bed really well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you'll just go and ask, like you'll go and ask the mattress, then you'll be given a very old one, but I never lost mine. I just saw others' experience.
Speaker 3:Oh, that gives me a different perspective about you. Why didn't you lose one?
Speaker 4:Not everyone was being stolen from.
Speaker 3:But the ones who lost what was there.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a profile, maybe like you know, A common underlying factor.
Speaker 4:If the thief is in your house, they're going to steal yours.
Speaker 1:Your house was a bit displayed.
Speaker 4:Okay, we didn't have as much cases, yeah, as the other houses makes sense.
Speaker 3:So what did you lose? My shoes, my white canvas shoes, wow, and then and also my slippers, my clothes day, day two week, one week two.
Speaker 4:Week two, around week two, and you never saw them again. No, you see a FOMFO wearing them and they're just walking you know, like I can't wear that for your shoes.
Speaker 3:You just say okay, amanda.
Speaker 4:Amanda.
Speaker 2:Does it have like your admission number so you see them moving with your?
Speaker 4:number. Yeah, but they'll go wash it.
Speaker 2:Like you'll just see your green marker pen. You just know that's mine, that's mine.
Speaker 4:High school.
Speaker 1:You wait until you get to.
Speaker 3:Form 4.
Speaker 2:And take someone else's. Oh, you guys even didn't wait for Form 4.
Speaker 3:Form 2 is enough.
Speaker 1:You have suffered enough.
Speaker 3:You know we passed through the hell.
Speaker 4:No, okay, I didn't want to steal. I can't wear somebody else's clothes, okay, yes, I can't steal. Like I didn't revenge, I was like it's okay, you just have it okay, so you didn't start being kind after university?
Speaker 3:in the university started theery, oh nursery. Like you could come with lunch and food.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like if you don't have.
Speaker 3:Nice, nice. I think maybe there's a club there.
Speaker 1:Yay. But, yeah, that's cool that's cool.
Speaker 3:So here you were taught how many subjects in high school Did you find that really education-wise, did you find it a bit new? Yeah, a transition. Yeah, when high school was okay.
Speaker 4:I'd say I enjoyed some subjects and others were just a load. Okay, like I admire the other, like in admire the other system. In US they have a very nice system where you specialize early. As for us, you just have a lot to do and you get to specialize when you get to university.
Speaker 3:Please tell us a bit about US.
Speaker 4:I feel like the system cultures you to do more voluntary stuff. You get to choose. If you're a STEM person, an arts person, yeah, you get to know. If you're a stem person, an arts person, yeah, you get to like know what you love earlier. As for us, you're just there studying every other subjects 14 subjects, then you drop, you have eight, which I think you should just have four at most.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like what if you are given a chance at that point?
Speaker 4:and you were told select four.
Speaker 3:Which one would you select? Oh, for me, I enjoyed sciences.
Speaker 4:I loved computer. I still did it, computer. I do English because I loved English. I do mathematics and maybe one easy subject.
Speaker 3:But sciences are three of them right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there are three.
Speaker 3:Those are more than four already.
Speaker 1:Okay, so far we've said three Science computer and English and sciences.
Speaker 4:No, and just one science Physics.
Speaker 3:Yeah physics, Just physics.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Veget Swahili textbooks no, and just one science physics, yeah, physics, just physics, yeah okay okay so when you go to course, you're not confused yeah what is happening around.
Speaker 3:You guys are speaking, nice, but I can't understand you know like the guys who go to school nowadays and, by the way, that thing. Actually, I feel like our culture is taken away, because I feel like. Swahili is the widely spoken language in Africa after English and guys. Now this goes to sorry. No offense about group of schools. As much as they are learning Swahili, they are more inclined towards English. Like someone actually can't speak. Swahili Swahili like the normal Swahili that anyone could speak.
Speaker 2:But I don't know if people decide to be like that or it's the curriculum that actually inclines them more to speak more English because the system already teaches all other languages in English, so you don't expect a student to become very fluent in Swahili, yet they only learn it one lesson per day, and English they interact with it in lesson per day and. English. They interact with it in all the other lessons, so I think somehow how the curriculum is set up. You're bent to know more English, whether you want it to or not.
Speaker 4:Plus, like in our school, if you spoke in Swahili, you're given a disc. Imagine what is a disc. It's this? Okay, in our school it was. You see this last thing in the tissue? Yeah, it's written. I am a Kiswahili speaker.
Speaker 3:And then Arupi started. So it's meant to shame you. Yeah, yeah. How was that? You guys experienced that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had, though we had Kiswahili days when you'd get the disc If you spoke in English, then we had English days when you'd get the disc If you spoke in English, then we had English days where you'd get, but the Kiswahili days it was one Kiswahili day and four English days in a week.
Speaker 4:Ours was English 24-7.
Speaker 3:So this is what used to happen. You guys, even even I didn't know what is a disc. The moment you said disc, I thought about the DVDs and CDs I'm like ah disc. So we used to get what we used to call, I don't know if it's monto or monto, but it used to be A bone. So you know, boys being boys, we had to devise ways not to get the monto.
Speaker 1:It was good for a boy to get a monto.
Speaker 3:It's not good to traumatize a young boy. So if you gave me a monto, I never got a monto, or I never got a monto, though, but I'm saying it with all humbleness but there are guys who you could not give the monto because they would beat you up Seriously, like you can't how I can speak whatever I want to speak. And if you go and report them, yes, they'll get keen, but of course after school, we will meet.
Speaker 2:They know where to find you. No, we are going home together. Not even where to find you, unless you disappear.
Speaker 3:So I feel like all that experience is not good. I'm not against punishment and discipline and all that, but there are better ways, right, experience is not good, but I'm not. I'm not against, you know, punishment and discipline and all that, but there are better ways right. And I think also we grow with that shame to some extent, like even right now, and don't speak so much English. People treat you some type of way. If English doesn't sound with some accent, people will be like you know, and this actually goes even beyond Kenya for your information, even beyond Africa.
Speaker 3:So I feel like language should be language, but you should not feel like because you don't know certain language and this, actually, I learned late in life that you should feel ashamed, right, because I'm seated here and I'm thinking, okay, learned late in life that you should feel ashamed, right, because I'm seated here and I'm thinking, okay, people who don't speak Swahili, it's not their native language outside Africa, do they really get punished because they can't speak Swahili? Most probably not. Even they don't care and you hear them speak Swahili. You're like what? You're murdering this language, but do they care? No, I'm not saying English or French or German or whichever language is not good All.
Speaker 3:I'm saying is that all languages should be given same respect for the reason that some of us, actually, if we don't know our mother tongue, would we even survive as children? Most probably not, because that's where we start, right. You learn your mother tongue and then you're taught your mother tongue is bad. Yeah, so when you guys mentioned that, I thought maybe I should share that piece of information. Yeah, so did you get these discs?
Speaker 4:Well, yeah.
Speaker 3:Most of the time.
Speaker 4:Well, I think you always forget and just use another language.
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially when you always forget and just use another language.
Speaker 4:Yeah, especially when you're missing that word. Yeah, even now. I know I've used Swahili somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's okay, it's fine yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So did it lead you to love more English than Swahili to some extent?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yes, yes, I'd say.
Speaker 3:Subconsciously Ah if. I don't speak English like what Sylvia actually says subconsciously. Like you know, all the languages are taught in English. You know that's ingrained in you, like if I don't learn English then I might even fail all these other subjects.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 3:I hope it was different For me. I hope education and this is my hope, this is my personal opinion like education, any subject should be fun enough that I would love to learn it true or do it the same way. People do software and it's hard. Software is not easy, proper software engineering is not easy, but when you see something work, oh my god it's worth it you're like it was really worth it.
Speaker 3:Right, it's already easy, but you're not punished for not doing it Because, at the end of the day, anything that you do and we'll talk about that more when we get to the fun part of the university I see you are anxious to get there. And what will take you there is that you'll find that some things don't work when you want them to work, and it's fine. But if you're patient enough and you're consistent enough, they eventually work.
Speaker 3:Anything actually anything that anyone thinks it's hard, it eventually works. So please take us to form two.
Speaker 1:Okay, how was that?
Speaker 4:You can just give us the best and the worst part the best, the best part is making friends now you have started familiarizing yourself with people yeah, and now you're at least not alone as much as you are in someone and also, okay, I think you now know what you like and what you don't like in terms of subjects yeah, that was a nice part um yeah apart from the routine being so harsh, when did you used to wake up? Okay, should be in class by 5 30. Then you'll go sleep at 11.
Speaker 3:oh, what are you doing between 7 and 11 in the evening preps? Are there teachers coming to teach or just self-learning that?
Speaker 4:was introduced later. Part 7 too yeah.
Speaker 2:So this is the whole school, form 1 to Form 4. 5.30 to 11. Same routine.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but if you're in Form 2 and Form 1, you can go sleep at night, okay.
Speaker 3:If you choose to, yeah, if you choose to. But if you want to learn, more it's allowed. But from three and from four.
Speaker 2:Paul, sorry.
Speaker 3:You should not love sleep.
Speaker 4:Neither should sleep love you, whatever that means, but rest is important the what the rest.
Speaker 3:So you feel like you guys are stretching.
Speaker 4:Yeah, was this even for the weekends? Yeah, pretty much the same thing, just that.
Speaker 3:Saturday we would go for an entire instead of studying and guys would sneak from school.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:No one sneaked.
Speaker 4:If they did, we didn't know Throughout your four years.
Speaker 3:Then that's a good school. Did you guys get everything in school and stuff like that?
Speaker 4:no, we didn't have snacks. I hope they changed that if you're in. St. Anne's your teacher advised them to add snacks. It's unfair that you just eat bread and normal food.
Speaker 3:You should have something like what did you guys eat?
Speaker 4:what was the menu bread in the morning and that bread was never enough If you miss blocks.
Speaker 3:Half quota.
Speaker 4:Quota Very tiny, Not quota quota. Quota of the quota.
Speaker 3:That gives me some ideas about your chefs. Like you know, you have to make money. This quarter should not be quarter quarter, an eighth quarter, that's interesting.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then, like ugali githiri, always 24-7.
Speaker 2:Lunch. This is lunch.
Speaker 4:No, this is supper. Supper was actually githiri from Monday to Monday. Oh wow, yeah, lunch was actually very from Monday to Monday.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, lunch ugali.
Speaker 4:Ugali or rice. Now they alternate between the two Ugali during lunch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's interesting With one piece of meat and cabbage and a lot of water, a big one, though right A big chunk of meat.
Speaker 4:Was it big? It was tiny, it was not so big, yeah, but it was a chunk of meat just one
Speaker 3:just one. Yeah, there was no special day like when you could do maybe rice, and you know chicken you guys used to do chicken. No, I'm asking, oh, I'm asking that I've been wondering chicken pulao.
Speaker 4:No, okay, maybe during when the board chairman came and he like spoils the school, we'd eat smoky for breakfast.
Speaker 3:Just one morning.
Speaker 4:That one morning when you have not even sausage smoking Smoky.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Guys you can hear Gen Z's.
Speaker 4:No, no, no Lunch time. That was just once the normal is no, it's fine.
Speaker 3:It's fine Lunch time. Normal, that's just the oh I thought maybe lunch time and pizza.
Speaker 2:The treat was only for breakfast.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, yes, because by one.
Speaker 3:they're out of that place, this place, people are eating githeri.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they should all be staying around here, githeri and rivolts.
Speaker 3:Oh, who has had proteins?
Speaker 4:Only nutritious ones. They're floating. No wonder I had some personal questions but now I get my answers.
Speaker 3:You know, I hear those things actually contribute to a lot of things behind the scenes have you ever heard that? No, it's a story that you used to have in boys' school, so you might maybe be overthinking. That doesn't, because that's why they neutralize it with paraffin, you guys used to.
Speaker 4:They used to like Hidden secrets. We don't know, but we could smell it ourselves.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's for boys. Probs I don't know, hope felt attacked. So this is the way actually you guys did it throughout there. But now I'm thinking about it a bit, even if they added maybe snacks Snacks is like popcorns and crisps cereals Canteen, at least a canteen.
Speaker 4:Our school didn't have a canteen. No canteen, no snacks.
Speaker 3:You guys have had like clubs music drama scouts, Okay, clubs yes. But these are the guys who run the canteen from the school I went to. They were not that creative.
Speaker 4:No, no, maybe, they added. Maybe I was in a Buji school For once.
Speaker 3:I feel like I was in a. Buji school Because we used to run that and then the profit used to run that. Every time you're asking people to contribute to go to Borda it's called Borda and Power.
Speaker 2:Ah Borda and Power.
Speaker 3:yes, or maybe we want costume for music festival and drama Okay. Or maybe we want costume for music festival and drama okay.
Speaker 1:the catch is I introduce most of those things when I join the school the one who introduced and some few other characters but when I tell that story one day, you know it was not easy, and when I finished school they all died.
Speaker 3:It was done so interestingly that we used to run the canteen and then the proceeds profit proceeds used to support the clubs and they used to be really awesome because we could really manage most of the affairs. Even we used to pay patrons. Can you imagine that our teachers, we pay them through the? Canteen and I feel like it gives people some entrepreneurial and I feel like it gives people some Entrepreneurial acumen, so it's a good endeavor. So when a high school teacher was listening Don't allow people to run.
Speaker 1:Some of these things.
Speaker 3:Because not only do they expose them to Management discipline, how to deal with it? Because there are people who are not really straightforward when they rent their canteen. So when you did the books, you could always find this guy is not coming the canteen. So when we did the books, we could always find ah, this guy is not coming this canteen anytime soon. He's our member. We love them, but with money we don't. So there are those things. And then it also shows people how to create opportunities.
Speaker 3:Because these guys, we could give them feedback like don't bring only bread, If you bring mandazis, you could buy. If you bring mandazis, you could buy If you bring maybe crepes you could buy, but you didn't really overstretch because also when you talk about crepes you could not get them at wholesale price, and then also there's some things actually that could really go out of hand, honestly, but we try to mix and match. St Hans, you're listening, eh.
Speaker 2:I'm speaking on behalf of.
Speaker 3:Ops On behalf of a thousand or million others. So that's something that I maybe thought I should ask. Even if we had these snacks and you're still eating Githeri, it didn't make sense.
Speaker 4:It does it supplements.
Speaker 3:Like you guys will stop eating Githeri and start eating snacks.
Speaker 4:No, We'll still eat Githeri.
Speaker 3:Really Okay. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Makes sense Other schools had so yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we could have.
Speaker 3:There's another school I was in, by the way, now that you're talking and we used to have a lot of Githeri with weevils. Weevils are proper proteins in high school that make someone survive and get what fish? Provides Omega 5. So, luckily, we used to be in a village where people plant avocados.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah that's lucky so we used.
Speaker 3:When I tell my story I don't know, maybe I should anticipate people I feel like I should tell half of it or a quarter, maybe something. So we used to actually have guys bring those avocados and then sometimes they're not ripe, sometimes they're ripe. So if they're not ripe we do the thing of ripening them and you know, we are learning chemistry, so we knew what to do.
Speaker 3:Application. So polythene we know it has some chemical that actually ripens anything in a proper way. That's why when you put something on a polythene paper it ripens even quicker. But also people in this. Nairobi when I came to Nairobi. I was not born in Nairobi myself, so I realized people actually first struck that process by adding proper chemicals to fruits. So, these are hack. So, guys, if you see a fruit that is evenly looking in color, avoid.
Speaker 2:It's just too good to be true.
Speaker 3:Avoid it all means that process. I hope grandma is here to tell me there's a process actually that is done in an industry standard to cater for that. But now you see, when someone is doing it off the industry they don't even know the balancing of that and the quantity and everything. So you may end up consuming a lot of chemical in your body. So a proper ripened fruit should not be even in color, it should have some black spots here and there and even when it goes bad it should go bad evenly, not rotting in one place and then the other place is rotting.
Speaker 3:Not even ripe. Even it doesn't look real. Yeah, yeah, but that's story for another day. So you get to form three and you realize that you have to choose some subjects. Eight of them, you said yeah, and I choose computer because I love it. So you studied computer from Form 1?
Speaker 4:Yeah, from Form 1, it was a compulsory subject, and then in Form 2, third term, you choose your subjects. So I chose computer studies and three sciences, yeah. So I chose computer studies and three sciences, yeah.
Speaker 2:Computer, three sciences and two humanities or another technique.
Speaker 4:Just one humanity. No, I didn't even take a humanity. No, I didn't do it. Okay, I just did theory.
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 3:Theory is not humanities. Is it really just that?
Speaker 2:No, it's humanity, Geography, history and Ciri. So one of those, and then one technical computer, three sciences and the three compulsory.
Speaker 3:Eight subjects yeah, how was that? Did you like breathe the sigh moment?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was definitely better.
Speaker 1:And you loved it.
Speaker 4:Yes, I particularly enjoyed my Form 4 KCSE project.
Speaker 1:What project did you do?
Speaker 4:We did an election system.
Speaker 3:For computer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, which language? Of course, ms Access.
Speaker 3:I thought you would tell me JavaScript. No, we just knew Pascal, Of course. Ms Access, Ah okay, I thought you would tell me JavaScript.
Speaker 4:I'm like ah no, no, we just knew Pascal Santan. When are we doing the hacker though?
Speaker 1:When are we doing the hacker?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Because that would be really. Maybe I foresee where high school people do some proper, proper projects. Yeah yeah, but I feel like this MS thing is too. I think that people are being because if someone is doing at 7, 8 years old, they are building proper systems in Ukraine, or some place in Russia. Yeah, we're doing MS access and the other one is studio something.
Speaker 2:Word Excel access. Yeah, In high school, you haven't even seen studio.
Speaker 3:It's just the parking my buddy actually actually my buddy co-founder of FinPlus did Visual Basic.
Speaker 2:In high school?
Speaker 4:Yes, if they had the exposure that's very good, but standard public in high school.
Speaker 3:It's just MS.
Speaker 2:Microsoft Suite the most you go where you feel like a UX designer, you've done. Publisher.
Speaker 4:Publisher is crazy. You are a designer of designers.
Speaker 3:When you finish your KCS, you are like you guys are good.
Speaker 4:Do you need a poster?
Speaker 3:It's just 3K, we can talk. Me I saw some of those things in Masi not that we didn't have computers, but they were not really good. People used to go and play ping pong for the rest of my time they were not that powerful. That's what I'm trying to say it's like feature phone you know ping pong right that's the right.
Speaker 4:I know that table tennis it's a game that actually hits corners of the screen of a computer the pool table, the ball.
Speaker 2:You move it, then it's hit by things as it moves around. I feel like.
Speaker 3:That's the game, the default game.
Speaker 2:It was the default one in any computer and then it's slow even in that machine.
Speaker 3:It's hit by things as it moves around.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's the game, the default game. It was a default one in any computer.
Speaker 4:And then it's slow Even in that machine.
Speaker 3:it's slow, it's loading. I loved engineering from day zero, but I'm like should I really? Spend time there and me I love. Anything I do should be fun. Otherwise, it doesn't really make that sense. I get bored so quick, though, so that's the reason. Yeah, so you did your project that you loved.
Speaker 4:It was challenging but nice. It was a nice challenge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, were you doing it alone, or yeah, you do it alone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then the teacher supervises you and then it's submitted to Nick. Oh, but they grade it, and then the teacher supervises you and then it's submitted to Nick.
Speaker 3:But they grade it and then it's like an agriculture project. Did you do agriculture I?
Speaker 2:did computer.
Speaker 3:Oh nice.
Speaker 4:That option was there for us.
Speaker 3:Oops, but anyway, that's what matters. So that means you hasted it right. Yeah, yes, that was one of the ease, yeah yes then how was others math sciences?
Speaker 4:I also liked them not that it was so easy to ease. You also had to read spend some time. Yeah, it was not a walk in the park. You also had to do spend some time. Yeah, it was not a walk in the park. He also had to do a fair share of the work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you didn't do bad. So what did you?
Speaker 4:do, I did well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I did well, and then now I went to KC University.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Jose, I see you have joined Welcome. You can hear how much trouble we have here in terms of questions and answers. Doing well, what is doing well?
Speaker 4:Doing well is Okay, I got.
Speaker 3:It's KCA doing well. Definition of doing well is KCA, Like you made it to KCA. That's what I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah to do software engineering, something I liked Nice. Now, this is where the fun starts. Yeah, that is where we could have started. Take us through.
Speaker 3:No because we don't assume that you started from university. Yeah, and there are people who have seated there who don't even like universities. You see, the same way you're saying in US people are like doing some crazy stuff. But you know you choose what you want to do. There are people who choose. You know I want to be a software engineer. Why can't I start coding and forget about the rest? Yeah, they do well yeah so that's why we don't assume everyone started from the university.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, so I started at KCA.
Speaker 3:Yeah, please.
Speaker 4:Tell us about KCA. You know, I know KCA as a Kenya, something accounting. Yeah, Kenya College of Accountancy. But I know it's now KCA University.
Speaker 3:K-C-A-U.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:KCAU.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's my KCAU. Yeah, K-C-A-U, k-c-a-u. Yeah, it's my K-C-A-U. Yeah, it was chartered University.
Speaker 3:So you joined K-C-A University. How is that process like Do you just show up, do you go pay school fee? Do you just go to lecture halls?
Speaker 4:How is that orientation like For the first few weeks, or does it take weeks? I've never been to KCA. You receive the invite letter. Then, after that, you go to the school. You pay the registration. They give you an admission.
Speaker 3:At the school or the bank.
Speaker 4:School. Okay, you'll pay via M-Pesa or the bank. There are two ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have two options. I ask you, how much is the school fee there? That?
Speaker 2:you're paying using M-Pesa.
Speaker 4:Well, now that you think about it, m-pesa expanded that Right now. I know you can.
Speaker 1:Right now, I know.
Speaker 3:But since you told us, you know, back in the day, I'm like this thing Okay, Like they. I, I'm assuming when we went to KCU University the limit for M-Pesa was 150?.
Speaker 4:No, it was 299.
Speaker 3:Now I have another hand Really. But you're still in school, so it's not a surprise yeah.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, you pay and then you join school. Okay, I joined the September intake and yeah, being in Okay, I joined the September intake and yeah, being in software engineering, I was excited. I didn't know what to expect. Yeah, and then now my journey began. My journey in tech began. You didn't feel alone. No, not as much. Oh, and we also had. It was during Corona, so not many people.
Speaker 3:So you never even reported.
Speaker 4:No, you just go to get the registration.
Speaker 3:Then you go back home.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because it's online.
Speaker 3:And then you buy a laptop and internet.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You guys never showed up for classes.
Speaker 4:We did online.
Speaker 2:Oh, they were all virtual when you started. Yeah, all the classes.
Speaker 3:There are no people who reported without laptops. There are no people who reported without laptops, or you know.
Speaker 4:There are Like if you didn't have, well you'd share.
Speaker 3:And you also have labs, Computer labs, Okay, so you could just go to school and attend them virtually no.
Speaker 4:If you didn't have, you'd defer to January.
Speaker 3:Oh, there was that option. Yeah, okay, january people came back, or?
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, yes so that should be 2021 or something 2020. Then yeah.
Speaker 3:January 2021. You'd defer to January 2021. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I think one thing I enjoyed was the events that Tech had. The first event I attended was MongoDB yeah, and it was in iHub. Then later there was the Atlassian event.
Speaker 1:This is in the first year still.
Speaker 4:Yeah, first year Like the first holiday.
Speaker 3:How was that experience with MongoDB?
Speaker 4:At first it was confusing because you don't know anything.
Speaker 3:You're floating through, but I think the presenter asked you guys do you have any questions?
Speaker 4:Well, you wouldn't have a question to ask, since you don't know anything about MongoDB, but you could raise up your hand, like.
Speaker 3:I'm lost. Please explain a bit like why this is happening or why, of course, mongodb takes a document approach rather than a DB approach whereby you have tables and all that, or relational table, so this is new to me. Please explain a bit about documents or relational table, so this is new to me. Please explain a bit about documents, storing data as documents.
Speaker 4:Well, I was very new to tech.
Speaker 3:The reason I'm asking this is because I know there is another hope even in 2057, at KCO or wherever who will come to a community.
Speaker 3:I think then community will be pretty good, Like very good. Even right now they're really good. When I started, by the way, there was no communities Okay, Maybe we are not giving people context here, so this event that Taupa has mentioned was hosted by you, Astroly myself, and the reason why I started communities back in 2010 or thereabout is because there was nothing much going on with that. So just IAB was just starting and mostly most of the guys there were senior engineers who were working for an IT group which is now Zuku.
Speaker 3:I don't want to say Zuku, loud Zuku, loud Zuku, and maybe Safaricom, or you know the companies that were there back in the day. And so for me, I asked myself, I imagine this person who came in and they are looking for knowledge, where we can sit down and say, you know, I don't know this, maybe you know that and then we can exchange that knowledge. But I'm assuming right now, even in 2050, someone will go to the community, but they look like everyone knows everything, but they don't, but they just sit and relax yeah.
Speaker 3:So I would encourage guys, like just as much as you're not asking something that's really obvious, because there's some obvious questions, but there's no obvious question because when you think about it maybe you don't know. Then you'll be able to actually first track that journey. That's why I was asking that, but for you it's just like what should I ask?
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, like you'd ask a wrong question, maybe. I think, the fear is what if I ask something that's not even related to whatever he's talking about? So the first event is pretty confused. You don't know what to expect. You don't know what they're doing. They're just there to watch and listen to people. Yeah, so that was my first event. And then I joined the Atlassian community and it was a very vibrant community. I'd say that was my first it still is.
Speaker 4:Oh, sorry, it is, it is a very vibrant community tech community, yeah, where you're taught about very various tools that Atlas Enhance, like Jira, trello, bitbucket yeah, all those the first meetup. Of course you don to know what they're about. When you attend the second one, then you get okay, it's about this. And then the third one, you're like okay, now. I'm getting a hang of it. And then now, as you continue to attend the events, they'll just they make sense. Yeah, they'll be like now. I enjoy this. Now, this is my place.
Speaker 3:Oh, you found like Atlassian is your place. I love to use. Yeah, sure, so do you use some?
Speaker 4:of those nowadays. Yes, I love Trello and Bitbucket. I also use GitHub.
Speaker 3:But you love Bitbucket, why don't you use?
Speaker 4:Bitbucket, because most people will send you invites via GitHub.
Speaker 2:So GitHub is just more popular? Yeah, but you prefer Bitbucket.
Speaker 4:I love both.
Speaker 2:Politically correct answer you love both, but you know you can actually use.
Speaker 3:If someone sends you a GitHub repo, you can still do your thing on Bitbucket. You know that right.
Speaker 1:Ah, no Even.
Speaker 3:GitLab. You can actually use GitLab If someone sends you some Bit right? Ah no, even GitLab, you can actually use GitLab if someone sends you some packet. Can you know, do your thing on GitLab and see, you know merge or do whatever it is. They're all the same actually.
Speaker 1:They use Git technology, which is basically all the same.
Speaker 3:But, of course Bitbucket adds a couple of things on top of it because it's more corporate. It's more like bucket adds a couple of things on top of it because it's more corporate. It's more like if you're really serious software engineer, you'd go to the market but it doesn't break a bone even to use github or gitlab. But most corporate code sits on big market because it's, uh, proprietary code. Yeah, yeah, but github is synonymous with the open source. You know that's when it's easy to like. You know flow with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah so Bitbucket had some material. You know, fish eye stuff. Mabu, when are you talk about CICD and stuff like that? Yeah, but I'm glad to hear you love Bitbucket. So what do you love about BigBucket?
Speaker 4:Okay, I think I've just used it on one project and, yeah, I think I just like that we could collaborate. Actually, before meeting GitHub, I met BigBucket and yeah, and then I was told there's also GitHub. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's where you started.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so GitHub, so it's where you started.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is your first year, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is first year.
Speaker 3:So did you start building projects around Bitbucket, GitHub?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I volunteered for a startup. Yeah, it was something to do with medicine. Yeah, so we were building an application and all the devs there were using Bitbucket. So that's where, like I didn't know anything about Git. So I was told go and install Git Bash on your laptop and I'm like what is it for? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then now I came to realize okay we are going to collaborate using Bitbucket, so it sounds like you love to be thrown on the deep end and then find your way right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yes, that's the best way to learn.
Speaker 3:So when you went out and found out Git Bitbucket, how was that experience? Do you like research? Look for documentation. How was that? Or tutorial video tutorial I don't know.
Speaker 4:Google. You just ask what is Git Bash? Then you write download Git Bash and also tutorials.
Speaker 3:That means you're using a Windows PC or something.
Speaker 4:OS? Yeah, why didn't you just install linux?
Speaker 3:well, there's this disparity when people say ubuntu, people and windows well, I'm going to designing, okay so you can't take away windows from it. Yeah, you love design love design are you a good designer?
Speaker 4:yes, okay, people say, I am someone says that it's debatable no, like people actually say I'm good at what I do you know, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:Side of you, I hear you are UX UI kind of person. But yeah, I have a portfolio of projects I've done. Side of you, I hear you are a UX UI kind of person but I never.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I have a portfolio of projects I've done.
Speaker 3:Please send to me after this or maybe later.
Speaker 4:I would love to see it.
Speaker 3:Because, you know, even in Nairobi I don't know if I was telling. Sylvia and the team that if you look for really good designers in this country, it's really hard Really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really hard, and when I see someone like you who is really interested in design, even the person who I know is really good in design. We started from nothing, actually, and now it's going really well. So, really, do I meet good designers in this ecosystem? But I know a couple of guys either. They are senior, you know. You know outliers, yeah, and they're not many, so it's a good field to explore. I know there's so many people who can do a poster on Canva and think they're designers. I hope you know, that.
Speaker 4:No, no, I actually use Figma, oh nice oh. Figma, oh nice oh.
Speaker 3:Figma. Okay, yes, all right.
Speaker 4:So, Hope.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:How was it? You know, I'm waiting for that exciting.
Speaker 4:KCA story. Yeah, okay, so the exciting part starts when I applied to become a Moringa Campus Ambassador.
Speaker 2:This is in which year.
Speaker 4:During my long holiday. Yeah, I During my long holiday. Yeah, I was in second year. So at that point, yeah, when I got accepted, my role was to be an ambassador of the brand moving out to my school, kca, and I was really excited. So, once joining, one thing that was very, very exciting for me is that I was with fourth years, fifth years, and I was like, wow, I'm just the only second year here and, yeah, all of them helped me grow.
Speaker 4:And I'd say, like with all the different tech communities I belong to is because I've known people from the Moringa Campus Ambassador community.
Speaker 3:Did you go to Moringa yourself?
Speaker 4:No, I've not yet studied there.
Speaker 3:What did you love about Moringa?
Speaker 4:I love the courses. I love that the devs that come out from there are very skilled.
Speaker 3:The first person who I've met who says that, yeah, they're very, very skilled.
Speaker 4:The first person who I've met who says that, yeah, they're very, very skilled and it's a nice school.
Speaker 3:Moringa, when we started, was a really interesting story. By the way, I'll bring the initial co-founders of Moringa in this podcast Audrey. There are more. Audrey is the one who is known and I don't know if she is around anymore, but anyway, I'll try and bring one. They have their own story, so I'll have them to tell it, because also, as long as it may not sound, so you know, rosy, not a start up story, that is rosy by the way, especially in Africa, people could learn a lot of things from those stories.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, some of them are people actually we have worked closely with in the community aspect and they're really good, really really good, and it's good to see also Moringa still thrive, even today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Something good yeah.
Speaker 4:Are you still Moringa Basel?
Speaker 3:Yes, I am yeah most of the people know you from that. You really did it well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I did it well and I still do it well.
Speaker 3:Give us tips. You know you're trying to.
Speaker 4:Of course, I'll share as I go on. So once I joined I met very great people who introduced me to communities, like my friend called Brenda. She was very active in going for tech events like PyCon. So when I had PyCon at first I was like what is that and what do you guys do there? I really didn't have any idea. But then she knew and she was like, okay, I can show you. Then she showed me the Microsoft Ambassador program. Yeah, and I really knew, and she was like, okay, I can show you. Then she showed me the Microsoft Ambassador.
Speaker 3:Program.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I really got to learn and now I know very many communities.
Speaker 3:So what would you say really? Community contributes to. You know someone who is really starting things, someone who is already ongoing and someone who actually already you know they are good at what they do because they contribute differently to different yeah, I'd say one thing about communities is that you'll go there as a newbie or as a novice and you don't know anything about anything in tech.
Speaker 4:And then now you're you know, like when you first they just think tech is web development, websites and all that you know. When you go to tech events you're're like, okay, now we have AI. Okay, we have product designers, we have those who do backend, there's frontend, there's like so many categories in tech and now you're like exposed to different people. You actually meet someone working in Microsoft, in Google, someone working for the big tech companies. Others are working for startups, and like when you're at home you wouldn't meet these people. Just when you attend these tech events, that's when you get to see and meet them and just hear about their journey.
Speaker 3:So you're saying also it's good for networking and also I've seen people share job opportunities in some of these events as well as you know gigs, you know someone is working on a project they need, maybe a designer, or they need someone to do front-end, yeah, so you'd say someone, rather than spending a weekend, you know, hanging out, I don't know what, do people you know for me, unfortunately, I don't know how it is to, you know spend a weekend?
Speaker 1:not doing tech.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like if I'm not spending time with the community. I'm attending an event for real. Until this year. This is when, actually this year, actually to some extent, it's not at the weekend weekend. What do people do?
Speaker 4:In university, anywhere, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Because even the people who have completed university and they take, but you never see them in the community. Oh yeah, so you go to a party and then the whole day you spend sleeping. Okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then what else do people do? I have no idea. So you also spend your weekends in. Mostly, I love spending time in the community.
Speaker 3:And I feel like I learn a ton. In the communities Also I meet. Feel like I learn a ton in the communities Also I meet interesting people and the conversations there are quite exciting. I would say yeah, actually.
Speaker 3:it's just something that I'm thinking right now, like what do people and I think I've ever asked this one, like one or two times in the community like you guys, when you're not here because, of course, one or two times in the community, like you guys, when you're not here, because, of course, even when you're meeting, even if I spend all the weekends, uh, with the community, either, you know, in Nairobi or somewhere else. So, people in Nairobi, I'm sure I'm doing something, yeah, yeah. Doing something else? It's a question that I'm thinking about, but yeah, so if the community is really fun, first day you'll feel like I don't know anyone, I don't belong here, Like what should I say, how should I introduce myself?
Speaker 1:People are introducing themselves as co-founders.
Speaker 3:Or CTOs Of course there are people who give themselves titles but there are proper, proper CTOs.
Speaker 3:There are people who are senior social engineers somewhere, people working for Microsoft and whatnot. So that should not scare you, because one day most of those people are you know where you are. It's a matter of saying, hi, I'm so-and-so, I'm starting up, you know, and, by the way, some of these senior people love people who are starting up, because when you have knowledge, okay, everyone is not the same. I'm not assuming everyone is not the same. I'm not assuming everyone is the same. But when you have knowledge and you're part of a community, most people want to share Most people want to see someone else grow so until you say something, people also will not say anything.
Speaker 3:So, try to engage, Don't over-engage, of course. Just engage the right amount, Like you know introduce yourself, you know, try to share something fun, and then from that point you might exchange contacts, you might know each other, and then things start from there yeah well, I attribute most of my the contracts I've done that.
Speaker 4:Put them to meeting people in the tech ecosystem yeah and also the friends I have.
Speaker 4:Yes, I think choosing your circle is the most important thing especially in university, I have very great friends who challenge me to become a better person. Every time, even those times you don't feel like going for that tech event, you have someone who will tell you you know what? Let's just go. Let's just go see what will happen. And I think, because you always don't feel like going, because, yeah, it's not all fun and games, you also get to learn. It's tedious, yeah. So, yeah, having someone to remind you you know what, you just come, you'll learn something. You don't go back home. They see you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that has also been very important so the same way, someone will tell you ah.
Speaker 3:Sherele on Kiyambu road is the same way Kiyambu road is where now the Sherele happens so the guys who are not familiar with the Nairobi culture, there is this analogy that certain routes or certain places will be the place to go. For you know, when you go to Uganda or Rwanda or, but I don't know, maybe I'm assuming, but you go to Tanzania, there are specific places since, I don't know, maybe 90s, that's where clubs are, that's where you know shere happens. But in Nairobi it's peculiar, even with the mats. Mats is matatus or public transport.
Speaker 3:There are routes that you know this year or this couple of years is the route that they have the nicest, beautiful matatus. Same with clubs. So there was a time CBD was a place to go. There was a time Westlands, where we are right now, was a place to come. There was a time Gong Road was a thing used to happen there. Then there was a time Mombasa Road used to be the place to be Recently. Dika Road was the place to be Recently not even a long time ago, especially during Corona.
Speaker 3:That's where the parties used to happen. Right now it's Kiambu Road.
Speaker 4:Right, I didn't even know. Yeah, I mean, that's the case.
Speaker 3:Not that I'm a Macheret guy, but of course I keep myself updated so that whenever I need to do a Macheret which I don't know when, I'll do it, but ideally it's a peculiar culture. And the reason I'm talking about this, which I think is out of scope is that when you're doing software engineering it's the science and it's also the art you have to understand certain patterns in certain areas.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example.
Speaker 3:Look at Facebook or TikTok they're both social media, or even Twitter but, they address different market segments, Even the advertisers. There you'll find there are certain advertisers who are on Twitter and not Facebook, or not TikTok? I don't know if TikTok is supporting advertisement yet.
Speaker 2:The others who will just?
Speaker 3:advertise on Spotify. So the same way you need to understand if because also entertainment is a big thing in software engineering.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is what they call multimedia. Like a unit, a big unit actually can do a project around it. So you need to understand those patterns. Music itself is a software, as you speak, Because right now what happens is that people go create beats like not arrange beats on a computer using software. Then someone comes and records a vocal. The vocal passes through what they call. What is that name of that software which makes you sound like Beyonce, that's a bad example.
Speaker 1:Autotune, autotune, yes.
Speaker 2:And then it really sounds more than certain way.
Speaker 3:And then now it's matched or merged with the beats. And then they give you to listen. If you don't like it, they can change actually the beat, or if you don't like something, you can pre-record, or you can record again until you get the perfect. So ideally all these things are happening, but what is supporting the whole process is software. So if you think about it in the industry right now, they used to say software is eating the world, but right now I feel like software is swallowing the world to some extent.
Speaker 3:So, you have to understand some of those concepts so that even when you come out here, which year are you?
Speaker 4:graduating Next year, next year, yeah.
Speaker 3:You're able to build solutions that people can use. Yeah. So, I thought I should say that because you've ever even done entertainment.
Speaker 1:The guys who came there like first entertainment what should we do?
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, maybe I need to take people slow and understand that, any industry that you think about, the hospitality, transport, like right now I hear the minister of transport announce about telemetrics and you know something else and cameras. So for you to be able to do all these things, you need things to do GPS, you need to crunch data, you need and toolbox. Actually, is it toolbox or black box or something? The one that is in the airplanes? What's the name of the black box? When the plane crashes, where you get the data, what actually transpired is a black box. It is a black box. It's a black box. The guys who are listening can tell us the name. We have Jose, we have Kawasa and there's someone their name, which is in Japanese, and, of course, we have Jolonge.
Speaker 1:International listeners.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes, jolonge, you can pick them up, they can listen, they can hear you, so you can say hi.
Speaker 3:Oh, hi Hi Kenyans and fellow international listeners, citizens there we go yeah, so ideally there's that debate. But I'm not saying you provide the hardware, Because you know, in Kenya mostly, when you hear something like that happening, there's a container somewhere Someone can correct me if I'm wrong hear something like that happening, there's a container somewhere. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. In Kenya, what happens is that before you hear a big project, already most of the things have been figured out, so they are looking for the market of the head of the ship.
Speaker 3:But where now the software engineers come in, and Juakali Artisans and all these people who actually do the last mile? Number one is installation, maintenance and creativity, and that's when our software engineers come in. How can we be able now to build on top of that software or hardware to actually deliver localized solution? For instance, maybe you have a fleet of cars. How are you able to integrate and make sense out of it? Can you even actually use the same toolbox to see how many people are in the car at a given particular time? Can you actually even install SDK, push on that toolbox for people to pay and get your money? There are so many ideas if you think about it.
Speaker 3:I don't see, but if you're waiting for you to get a tender, you'll be disappointed. This is just for anyone who will listen to this.
Speaker 4:But go ahead, okay. So then I joined the different communities Microsoft, google and one of them that I love is that I am the co-lead at KC University, and being there as a leader gives me the opportunity to invite more ladies to the team, since this tech ecosystem is filled with the male, now we need to add more females too, so it's very interesting Now that you guys actually can feel free to answer this.
Speaker 3:Why is that? Why do you think that's the case? Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:I think it's because we think coding is such a hard task and we also think that websites and coding is the only thing in tech. We are not exposed to what the other various things that tech has. Yeah. I think that's the main thing we don't know about. We don't have the exposure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's also a narrative that is sold to us very early on, like when you get in and you say you're a lady doing engineering or you're a lady in tech, everyone around is like wow, wow, you're sure you'll make it. They're just those notions that people have that have been bred into us yeah, with time yeah so there's that narrative already even if you're good, you'll doubt yourself.
Speaker 2:You'll get there thinking, hey, but can I really do this, though? You doubt yourself right from the word go, and it isn't right and it's a culture that should stop. And it starts early on in very basic things, but it shows up when you're older and things like that and how they address ladies in tech and how they address just ladies trying to strive in these fields that are marked as male-dominated sectors.
Speaker 2:Yet, if you think about it, the ladies in tech are doing very well and they're very good. But, now things are a bit more difficult for them to get there just because they have to fight that on top of learning the skill as well.
Speaker 4:That's a very common question. That in English is will you manage that cost or do you manage that cause?
Speaker 2:Exactly, we all have the same brain, if you think about it. At the end of the day, we have the same brain. If you're smart, you're smart whether you're male or female, so you'll still grasp the same concepts.
Speaker 3:Okay, don't you think that there are ladies who have had that opportunity and they really did not utilize it to the maximum?
Speaker 4:I think one of the fears I think we have is also imposter syndrome. When you're there, you're like I think I don't even deserve to be here. You're in a team of devs and you're like 10 people, but you're only two females. You're like this is not my place. I'm just out of this place.
Speaker 3:So the one who perseveres is the one who actually will really yeah.
Speaker 4:Maybe they get there and then they're like wow, I really don't fit in. I feel like yes they're good also. Yeah, they're good, they're good.
Speaker 3:So do you feel like also there's some ladies who get there and then when they face the first challenge, they retract or they, like I would say, they do the bare minimum and then they end up given something like project management or, you know, I would say like a task or something that is not so technical, which also again proves the notion that ladies cannot see it through all the way. Not that maybe you experience that much, but maybe, sylvia, you can also contribute, but I would love to hear your input if you have seen one.
Speaker 4:Okay, I have not seen one. My mentor is a back-end engineer and she does it very well. She's one of the people I look up to and she's really she's one of the copilers in my career. Like when I see her do it, I know I can also do it. Yeah, so she's not deviated, she's good.
Speaker 3:And she's really good. But there's another thing I've seen with the lady engineers If they're really engineers, they're super good, yeah, super engineers. If they're really engineers, they are, they're super good, yeah, super, super good. And I say this and sounds like, uh, you know, in case pulling people. But no, what I mean is that I've seen is, uh, it happened when I speak like this sounds like a mizazi, you know, I've seen it actually happen like someone started push it. When things are hard, they keep pushing it and they really thrive for some reason.
Speaker 3:I think, perseverance is very important for you to really get where you want to go, but something else. But please go, you can do.
Speaker 2:You think that there are ladies who don't really go all the way uh, yes, there are, and at times I do not think that it's a matter of they're not strong enough to persevere. It's a matter of they faced the challenge just like any other. But now this time they didn't get the mentorship or they didn't get the direction or the help Anyone they went to just told them Maybe just try something else. And you know, you can only face that long enough until it gets to a point where you're thinking, okay, let me for a minute think about this. And then when they take that sort of step back, they get into the quote-unquote lighter roles that you're talking about, which they're still performing, showing that it's not that they're not good. They got. Whatever role they're given they can handle it well.
Speaker 2:But now the lack of direction they're not really sure where to step to next. And it's good that sometimes they really do pick up. Maybe later they meet someone like a mentor, like you have, which is very important, and I think people should really get that. Especially if you're new in a field, it would be important just to see where, to be able to even get beacons or goals, to know how to set them the right way. But yeah, once they get that, they can be able to get back on track.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so now that you guys are speaking about mentorship, I have to say I don't believe in mentorship I believe in apprenticeship, which is much. I find it much intriguing to be an apprentice like learn by yeah, and that's how people used to learn before education, the one that you know formally.
Speaker 3:If you wanted to be a carpenter. Just you know. Go to a workshop, see how things are done. You know holding things around. You know, you see it and you learn. Same with doctor. If you wanted to become a doctor, you went to the forest look for. You know the herbs, see which one is poisonous, how do you mix them. You know packet them If maybe this disease is severe. You see that happening and I think even doctors use that until today Practicals. They call it practicing doctor or something. But when you finish I think you're 50 or something you go and spend some time in the hospital doing rounds. They call them rounds. So you actually start to now see what happens how to question a patient, how to administer the medication, and you see doctors do it in real time.
Speaker 2:I think they start even earlier, when you're still in campus. They still go for rounds and have to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I find that intriguing than mentorship, because and you guys can speak about mentorship for a bit, because mentorship, I find like if I was your mentor, I might end up telling you all the good things. To some extent, I might tell you all the good things, and that's how humans are mostly.
Speaker 3:But if you see me doing something, you'll see where things are not working and how I fix them, and you get that knowledge faster and it's more sticky than me telling you something.
Speaker 3:Also, you might end up asking the wrong questions and of course, if you ask the wrong questions you get the wrong answers. But that's me viewing mentorship in different angles. Also, I find that you might not really get enough time to really go through most of the things, because of course, I'm assuming I'm a mentor to someone because I still have the life that is going on. So I say, okay, we'll meet 30 minutes every week, but something will happen and that 30 minutes I'm not available, you're not available, or there's something else that I need to do that really is more urgent than this mentorship and you might not gain much. So over time I realized that also there are people who really come for mentorship but it's not mentorship, and I think you've seen a few cases recently where some tech bros were accused of things that I don't know if they were true or not, but even when I read what was happening I said, okay, I was almost like I told you, but rarely do I tell people how to handle things?
Speaker 3:Because of course there are so many underlying factors that I see with especially software engineering that actually could go wrong than right with mentorship but ideally, that's my take. But you guys tell me how did you get a mentor, how was that process and how do you handle it even better as a mentee and a mentor?
Speaker 4:Okay, so for my mentor one thing she is very, very present.
Speaker 3:And I love that you're saying she Do you have a? He mentor?
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:So a mentor has to be the same gender.
Speaker 4:No, we are not restricting, because I know there are good people out there who are willing to help without asking for asking for cash favors. I don't know for extras. Hope it's trying to be politically correct.
Speaker 3:This is why we tell it the way it is ok, yeah, mine is.
Speaker 4:She's Mbui and she's very good at what she does. She is a back-end engineer. Okay, her story inspires me and when I hear about somebody else's experience, I'm able to say, okay, so this is how you do it. Help me also do it as good as you did so that. I don't like. You know you could get to like that, yeah, and you're like ah, because you're like I have, I have all this work to do. Just tell me where it's going to. I want to like where will he take me?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But now, having high in my life, she's like okay, if you face a challenge, this is what you do. When you encounter this, try this. Even before I came to the podcast, she was like I know you feel like you don't deserve being here, but they called you because you have something to say and yeah, like I feel like she's very, very, very fundamental in my life. Yeah, she's listening, thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but they would love to hear from her. If she's available, we don't mind highlighting her. Oh, okay, Okay, I'll plug her so how long has she been doing software engineering?
Speaker 4:Since 2019.
Speaker 3:Okay, Okay yeah, we can try and see if we can. We're also trying to highlight more ladies who are doing something and, by the way, I hope you are doing a lot of things thank you both personally and you want. Okay, let me say this, so you're. You're one of the most consistent member community member I've seen, both in atlassian mongol db and africa stalking. You're always trying to build something. Even when you're building, you're making it look fun and all that and encouraging others, by the way.
Speaker 3:So we find that really uh something positive to talk about yeah uh, but yeah, please talk about about mentorship. Okay, before you do, do you like arrange sessions where you have these, or is this random calls and random emails and random?
Speaker 4:chats. We have a bit of both. We have random and we also have like sessions that we've. You have like topic we talk about and she's like okay, so for this we'll do this and this, especially when it comes to okay. One thing that I've really beat because of her is procrastination. I used to like put off tasks, but now I'm happy to say that she's helped me and. I'm able to do things when I need to get them done. Wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 3:I know most of engineers are lazy. You know that.
Speaker 2:Lazy, that's such a strong word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they wait for the last minute. Yes, that's laziness, for lack of a better definition.
Speaker 3:But they are good. It's because, even when they have not done them, mostly they are figuring out the easiest way to do it. In their head. Actually, they are figuring out which is it but ideally, they come out as lazy. And, by the way, you cannot be a good engineer if you don't have some form of laziness.
Speaker 2:Or what we call progress in the share. Ideally, as an engineer, you're finding more efficient ways to do things, and you only do that if you're lazy, because you want a faster way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, an easier way.
Speaker 3:So we're saying it and, by the way, what we're saying is that being lazy is not bad.
Speaker 1:Well, define lazy yeah.
Speaker 3:Until until you let it, nothing is bad. Actually, there's nothing that is bad until you overdo it or you let it do you. So if lazy drives you, anything you do is driven by laziness, then it might not lead you to good results. But if you're just, you know, you feel like maybe I should not do this right now and I can do it maybe within an hour, or I can do it within five minutes and you end up doing it really well, it's fine. At the end of the day, what matters?
Speaker 4:Getting things done, but you know not always that you'll come and then do it perfectly. Of course, you'll submit it late.
Speaker 2:Yeah, laziness is not the best term or it's not the best way to coin it. Maybe, just if you think you can do it in an hour, why wait for an hour to the deadline? Just do it today morning, finish it in an hour, then proceed.
Speaker 3:Is that the most classical way of you guys doing stuff Like every single time?
Speaker 2:Well, as often as you can do it as soon as possible.
Speaker 4:Like, you'll not always feel motivated to get things done.
Speaker 3:Like.
Speaker 4:I'm here, I'll do it Most of the time. You're like okay, let me just give it time.
Speaker 3:No, it's debatable, but ideally what I find that is consistent with the good good engineers's like you know we'll do it Not that we won't do it and we'll do it really well but you know the best is the planning part of things, which might look like there's nothing happening. But of course I know why she's doubting what I'm saying. It's because I like things getting done as fast as possible.
Speaker 4:But, of course, but you're preaching. No, no, I'm not preaching.
Speaker 1:Oh, you guys are hearing like I'm saying people should be lazy.
Speaker 3:No, no, I'm not saying that, I'm just saying you have to strike a balance between laziness and getting things done. If you do that, it's okay, you know. And also give realistic to yourself deadlines, that actually okay. If it goes beyond this, now this is laziness. This is procrastination. Procrastination, but also find an easier way of doing this, and you might choose actually, let me do it in an hour and then spend the rest of the time having good time or learning something new.
Speaker 1:Which is allowed?
Speaker 3:That's why now the difference of really really good engineers and good engineers comes in, because the really really good engineers they do it in an hour and then they're learning other things.
Speaker 1:True, so they figure out.
Speaker 3:Okay, let me flip this coin rather than waiting and sometime I might maybe be learning. Why can't I just do this? Because I know how to do it and then spend maybe the rest of 4, 5, 6, 16 hours learning something new. So what was your experience with mentorship?
Speaker 2:first of all, my take on mentorship would be I think mentorship also involves the hands-on part, so there's apprenticeship in mentorship, in my opinion. So, especially if you have a mentor in your field, someone who is doing something in line with what you're doing, it also means that they hold you accountable because they know the the goals that you are achieving or that are in your line in your field. They also hold you accountable in the technical part. So it's not just maybe that's what made you say that apprenticeship is better because mentorship to some extent or to some people can just sound like storytelling and just encouragement. That is part of it and it's a big part of it. But it also means that if you have a mentor who's in your field and is doing the same technical thing, it's a big part of it. But it also means that if you have a mentor who's in your field and is doing the same technical thing, it's a lot easier because they hold you accountable with your deadlines, with your skill sets. If you're not growing, they can actually call you out and say you were working on this project last month. You're still working on it right now. Okay, where are you stuck? Can we do a peer coding session Can we have tomorrow afternoon to go through your code and see where the problem is? Because why are you facing an error one week, still having the same error right?
Speaker 2:So in my opinion, mentorship should involve the apprenticeship itself. So it's much better get a mentor in your field, your exact line or the line you want to get into, and have them take you through just nuggets on what they have learned, because it's easier to learn from their mistakes. Don't make the same mistakes, true, true, make your own, because everyone will make mistakes. Make your own Then for your mentee. You will tell them, their mentors, their viewers, they will make their own. So you can imagine the people that will have down the line, 10 generations down the line. Yeah, whole new set of mistakes. But that's how it should work. They should guide you, tell you their mistakes, have the encouragement part as well as have the technical bit in touch very nice, very nice.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know, so you're part of uh. Women in africa's talking women in tech yeah, yeah, how is that?
Speaker 4:um, that's very fantastic. Um, as you've heard, I love. Um showing like women that they belong in this space because not everyone feels like they belong. So that's one place. I also felt like this is really nice. Women are now joining hackathons, we are trying to grow, we are emulating those who already are, and it's such an amazing space.
Speaker 4:We always do it every Wednesday, every last Wednesday of every month, and it's an amazing time to see what people will build. Some come there without ideas and by the end of the hackathon they have mind-blowing solutions and that's awesome to see have you met some really genius people? And also like if you see someone who's more skilled than you, you're like wow.
Speaker 4:I want to get there too. I want to give you motivation to continue with the coding, with whatever you want to grow at. It's also a very nice place to challenge yourself so that you're not always in your comfort zone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very important space to be at so maybe just to tell people what exactly is this africa's Talking Women in Tech and what are these events on Wednesday? Yeah, what exactly. If you could explain what the community is about, how would you coin it? And then, yeah, what are the best things? Maybe best two things or three things that you've had in the community so far.
Speaker 4:Okay, okay. So every last Wednesday of the month we have a hackathon. You'll be given a title, so, like, the last one was maternal health, so you're building towards that and you use the Africa's Talking APIs, which are.
Speaker 4:SMS, ussd, voice and airtime. When you come, you just have different groups building towards different solutions. So as a group, you ideate, then you come up with a solution, you code it, you try to fix that problem you've identified. Then one thing I'd say about it is that the best part, there's amazing food. Yeah, very amazing food. Yeah, very amazing food.
Speaker 2:Shout out to the kitchen people.
Speaker 3:Keaton or the chef.
Speaker 4:The chef, everyone who does that. Yeah, amazing food, amazing friends. You get to expand your network and that's your network. So, yeah, it's very amazing to see women come up with great solutions which will be implemented to be startups and maybe little organizations yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you can join as a beginner, or I have to be a professional. 10 years of experience under my belt beginner, very beginner friendly if you don't know anything to do with code.
Speaker 4:You come like join the next one. Also, don't give up about that. Join the next one. Within those months that you've attended, you will see the growth.
Speaker 3:So the secret is in consistency, yeah.
Speaker 4:Don't just attend one and you're like, ah, that place is boring, I didn't do anything. No, join the next one, so that you're challenged to even build.
Speaker 2:And when you're there you actually code. You don't just sit and watch.
Speaker 3:Tell them, when you're there you do your best, or you guys eat stories, you know? I'm curious to ask that. No, we actually code.
Speaker 4:And then we ask like, if you don't know if you're getting a certain error, you just raise your hand and then someone will come show you how to debug. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's Sylvia for you and Lois yeah.
Speaker 3:Sylvia's getting like. Why are you not saying Sylvia and Lois are always there? And they're part of AT you know, engineering, full stack, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they will not struggle. There's some members who have really some sort of you know, engineering full stack. You know, yeah, you'll not struggle yeah.
Speaker 3:There's some members who have really some sort of experience, or so they help each other, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there are those who are really good at it. There are those who have already consumed the APIs before, so they know what you should use, like how to make your API know your code live, like using ng-rock and all that. They also have experience, so if you just go to them, they'll just help you out.
Speaker 2:Just like you eh.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or she should say someone like me and I can see you, so yeah, you should not be struggling, actually your mentor.
Speaker 3:If they hear this, they'll be really proud. I did something.
Speaker 1:You can mentor someone in like, yeah, you should not be struggling. Actually, your mentor, if they hear this, they will be really proud I did something.
Speaker 3:You can mentor someone like five years down the line, they are still the same yeah. And big up to Wambui. You said it's Wambui.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's Wambui.
Speaker 3:You guys should also take mentees, or something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, that's one thing I want to do First years when they come in.
Speaker 3:No, even they can be four years.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, peer mentorship.
Speaker 3:As much as someone is interested. There are people who are interested, but also even especially with ladies. I'm not a lady, but I see ladies who have really great potential but they're just holding back, and that's actually why we created Women in Tech at AT, because ladies used to come for the main, which happens the last Wednesday of the month, thursday Last Thursday of the month. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Wednesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 3:So last Thursday of the month, and they always even when people presented in front they were like, let me remain. I don't know, for whatever reason, and of course I can't assume People go through a lot of trauma and that's why I actually go like from day zero so that you understand that journey, and someone also could say oh, maybe that's where.
Speaker 1:I am in life.
Speaker 3:And actually I can get here. It's part of that Maybe that's where I am in life and actually I can get there. It's part of that. So ideally, anyone who is ready should be able to do that, and of course, we welcome even the ones who come on Women in Tech Akadon to the main Akadon, and for us it's just pure, just, straight code.
Speaker 3:Just solve problems. We don't care if you are a lady or a gentleman for the open hackathon that's why it's called open it's for everyone, but of course, even business entrepreneurs who want to transition. As long as you come with your laptop and you don't spend the day just watching others, you're welcome. Come and show something. The first day you might just end up installing and then trying something. The next time maybe you send an SMS or maybe send airtime or you know,
Speaker 3:buy data the next time, maybe you'll find yourself building a whole logic of doing that and automating some of those processes. So, it's a journey and you understand that as long as you're committed. Now what can we do more for ladies?
Speaker 4:Okay, the first thing would be, and not just in the context of 80 women in tech.
Speaker 3:Like tech ecosystem, because I've seen a lot of women in tech. Come and go yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, number one is to make them feel like they fit, because, okay, let me tell you, in the open hackathon, when you go there, the pressure gets worse.
Speaker 3:That's how engineering is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure I know, like for sure it's not as easy, but like have this space where you don't have to feel the pressure. You go at your pace, you'll still get there. The point is growth. So don't see, someone is so good and then you're like me with this bad skills of mine, why should I even go and present, why should I even go and try build? Some people feel like I'm not adding value, so let me just stay away from it and find something else to do. So I think, making them feel like you belong here. You'll still grow and you'll get to that place where you want to get. Yeah, don't feel discouraged that someone else is better than you. Still grow, yeah, and good food very important no
Speaker 3:food is very in africa. Food is very important. You cannot joke around with food across the 54 countries. Actually it has always been a culture if someone comes to your home we didn't ever come with food, but that's on us, the first thing is that you welcome. With food you eat, you drink, you're okay.
Speaker 1:And then they ask you okay, are you?
Speaker 3:spending some time with us, and then you can say what brought you.
Speaker 1:Even if you're bringing bad message at least you should be full Before you give them, even if they decide now.
Speaker 3:Okay you know that people used to bring really back in the day bad, bad message from the neighboring kingdom. You know, in Africa before you used to have kingdoms. What do you guys know about this?
Speaker 2:We have read it History you used to have kingdoms.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you guys know about this. We have read it.
Speaker 2:If you check your history, it was just kingdoms Social studies.
Speaker 3:And I think in Uganda can give you that picture, in Nigeria can give you that picture. Even in Kenya here, and you used to be sent to go and say that you're coming for war.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And now you see they have to kill you because they don't want you to go back and say, no, you already said you were coming to kill you. That's essentially what you said, right.
Speaker 4:So the messenger will just die at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:That's where the proverb don't kill the messenger came from. Oh, Because, now imagine someone comes and tells you. You know what? This is a message. But ideally they will feed you, they will welcome, even you will be given a wife if you don't have one and life is good. That's how Africa needs to be. So imagine you are bringing the message of war and you have been given a wife. You see how that narrative changes back.
Speaker 3:Like now you're related, you cannot kill your relative. So Africa used to be beautiful, more than it is right now, in terms of culture and everything, and you don't actually talk about these things openly. You know Africans were primitive. No, africans used to even have their medicine or their herbalists yeah, medicine. Everything used to even have their medicine or they have herbalists, yeah, medicine, everything used to work properly actually. Maybe, even better than.
Speaker 4:I feel, like like.
Speaker 3:Even right now, we are more stressed than before. But, anyway, that's debatable. There's someone who's like wanted to go to Mombasa, but what would you? Sufficient, or I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1:You can sustain yourself, yeah.
Speaker 3:I want that Africa. It used to happen and if you read your history back the day, you see that. So ideally would you think that if every company started, you know, women in tech would be better off than we are right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that would like encourage women to know that there's a place for them. Because, currently, engineering is for men and people know that Even in the classrooms we are usually the minority. Every time, we are usually the minority and the male perspective seem to get like to understand it better than we do. But that's not the case. Just try it out, it's for everyone.
Speaker 3:You know, one of the best lecturers that I had in terms of explaining the concepts you know, making them look appealing was a lady. She used to teach us automata. She's still there actually. I think she's still a professor or something, or a doctor. Still A doctor is referred as a professor anyways. She really used to make it really appealing Some of our units. I used them. She made it really appeal and that's why, for me, as much as I say engineering, everyone should come ready. I'm that guy.
Speaker 3:And I think this is what actually drives so many so many ladies out there.
Speaker 4:I'm not going that way.
Speaker 3:Maybe you're not ready, Maybe what you say the syndrome, the imposter syndrome kicks in Like ah maybe then I don't think I'm good, but I believe that if you come with a mentality that it's just engineering and I want to solve problems, then you'll actually understand why you should actually be there and learn and don't expect special treatment or that. But, of course, what you're saying seems that there needs to be a catalyst platform to make sure that their mindset shifts things in standard. There needs to be a catalyst platform to make sure that.
Speaker 4:Their mindset shifts yeah.
Speaker 3:So Hope. What else happened at KC? You know. You said we talk about KC for a bit, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, kc is a very interesting university. I love that. It has very great programs. Actually, the first hackathon I attended was organized by KCA and we built a website to help entrepreneurs get mentorship. Yeah, so that was my very first hackathon and it was very informative. That's when I got to know that. Wow, I'm very interested in designing. Yeah, it's a place where, like that's when I got to know that wow, I'm very interested in designing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's. It's a place where, if you networked and learned, you'd be like a very great developer or a very great designer.
Speaker 3:Do they offer computer science?
Speaker 4:It's called software development, and then there's applied computing and forensics, so that's what you deal with software. Yeah, those three.
Speaker 3:Yes, those three Nice, nice, nice nice. So how is your experience there so far? In terms of, you know, besides the school you know, and then the career club and everything.
Speaker 4:The life, the life. Well, it's very fun if you have the right friends. Very, very fun. Oh so they are wrong friends in KC Define wrong Okay.
Speaker 3:It's close to Kuiva, which is the other the USAU club is called what.
Speaker 1:Memphis.
Speaker 3:Memphis. It's close to Memphis. Okay, roy Sambu is just around the corner.
Speaker 4:It's right there. No, then, mirema, not wrong friends.
Speaker 3:The Nigerians.
Speaker 1:No, okay.
Speaker 3:Madari, Actually Madari Hospital is just two blocks, three blocks. But anyway, I'm just finding ways to, like, define wrong.
Speaker 4:No, I don Just finding ways to define wrong. No, if they don't add value to your life, I think that's just wrong. Depending on what value is due.
Speaker 3:So you have to define your value, yeah.
Speaker 4:To some people going to Mirama, or whatever you say, it's not wrong.
Speaker 3:But to most people it is.
Speaker 4:It depends. You just have to most people, it is no it depends.
Speaker 3:You just have to know To you, is it wrong?
Speaker 4:No, I don't choose any side.
Speaker 3:You have friends who go to marriage.
Speaker 4:I don't feel judged.
Speaker 3:So you have friends.
Speaker 2:You don't want to break friendships here?
Speaker 4:No no, no, I already know my my circle. My circle is well defined, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:So it's personal Wrong is personal.
Speaker 4:Very personal. You define wrong.
Speaker 3:Okay, please.
Speaker 2:Alright Now, as we are winding up, the conversation has been heavy and interesting all through. We've gone through your journey right from kindergarten Sorry, kindergarten.
Speaker 3:Kindergarten, the accents there are some letters that are not pronounced out loud.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, it's kindergarten.
Speaker 2:It's kindergarten. I have learned something new.
Speaker 3:No me, I'm learning, so don't do that.
Speaker 2:From kindergarten to primary, to high school and now at KCA. Maybe what is your main takeaway or your parting short?
Speaker 3:Before that, I have like maybe two questions.
Speaker 2:Alright, then proceed with the questions. Then we'll wind up the recent ones.
Speaker 3:She keeps receiving swag left and right. She's always in a promotional. T-shirt Wow Tell us more about swag.
Speaker 1:You also want to receive swag once in a while.
Speaker 4:Receive it would be nice. Well, I think, paving way for new techies in communities, I think that's one way, and also building in public, that's another thing contributing on open source no like. If you're learning something, share it via your LinkedIn or via. Twitter. Just tell. If you're learning something, share it via your LinkedIn or via Twitter. Just tell people what you're doing. Don't be very quiet so that people know, ah, I know of a great designer. I saw her posts, her designs yesterday. Yeah, build in public.
Speaker 3:I think the other whole post will mention something like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, building in public.
Speaker 3:That's like the new Gen Z technology, Because you see when you hear something twice or something like that, yeah, building in public. That's like the new Gen Z terminology, Because you see when you hear something twice or thrice like mambo ni matatu.
Speaker 4:Mambo ni matatu yeah.
Speaker 3:You build in public, you receive swag and be part of the community.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, building in public has numerous benefits. I can attest to the people I looked up to in communities. They're doing great things and that gives you exposure. People get to know oh, I know of an IoT engineer and then they now know okay.
Speaker 3:Whenever there's a gig, your name actually pops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it pops, up.
Speaker 4:Plus you continue growing, because I don't believe you'll just post anything. You'll not post mediocre content, you'll strive to be better.
Speaker 3:What is your take about AI? You know Chargy, pt and shenanigans.
Speaker 4:I love AI. I think it's a very brilliant tool.
Speaker 1:Did you say AI?
Speaker 4:I said AI.
Speaker 3:The way you say it it's really interesting.
Speaker 4:It's okay. I said AI. No, the way you said it, it's different. No, it's okay, it's all right. Okay.
Speaker 3:I think, the English is paying off the St Hans English.
Speaker 1:Wow, I like the way you said it. For a moment I thought I'm in.
Speaker 3:California, really, yeah, thank you, thank you. But by the way, way, guys, just this aside, interacting with the intellectual people, they are not the guys who will have the most of the accents. Yeah, pardon that's a lighter note. Okay, I was explaining community.
Speaker 4:Yeah, one thing.
Speaker 1:I love about it. I was explaining one community, yeah one thing I love about it.
Speaker 4:I learnt about GitHub Copilot the previous week and it's really it's an amazing tool. It helps you predict code, understand the code you've written, so it makes work easier, yeah so now that it's paid, for what do you think?
Speaker 3:Do you think it's a barrier for people to really no, there's a student park, by the way. Yes, very free, very free, but you know, all of us are not students.
Speaker 1:Oops, oops, and we love to test things. We love to test things. Yeah, we love free things. By the way, I told GitHub this when they introduced it.
Speaker 3:You know it was not available. Is it the GitHub or the open source paid? You know right now you can get paid to go to the open source. You can say I'm available for XYZ? Is that a program?
Speaker 2:You're talking about.
Speaker 1:GitHub Students.
Speaker 2:Developer Pack. So I'm talking about now the paid part.
Speaker 3:Now that you're talking, about GitHub Students Developer Park. Yeah, the Developer Park. So I'm talking about now, the paid part, now that we're talking about GitHub, you know you have to share this, so if you're an open source software contributor, you can actually post your profile and anyone who wants to or maybe you're contributing to open source and they're using that open source. A GitHub sponsor.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much, so when they were introducing it in Nairobi.
Speaker 3:It was not available everywhere. I think last year in November, if I'm not wrong around that time. I also mentioned about GitHub being paid, but of course they said there's GitHub sponsor. You know, you can make money.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a give and take.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But ideally, github actually make my yeah, it's a give and take, yeah, but ideally, uh, github actually let me speak a bit about it, not the github that you guys know. The github, before it was acquired by microsoft, was the one of the biggest proponent of communities. Yeah, the I think github was the first, first, uh, independent company that sponsored some of the my community events and initiatives and they helped us build a big deal. You know, there are communities that are not backed by companies. When you talk about GDG, moringa, at, of course there are companies behind them, but there are communities like JS.
Speaker 1:Node JVM Ruby.
Speaker 3:All these are just open source and they're not backed by any company. So one of the things that we used to do is reach out to these companies that are proponents. It was very clear, very forward-looking. They used to send us swag and I'm glad to see they still have some of that culture where they're sending someone like you some swag for just actually sharing that. This is it and using it this way it's really good, and I think any company out there we are planning on doing that Merchandise.
Speaker 4:Free, free merchandise yeah.
Speaker 3:But for us, we are planning also to like sell some of it.
Speaker 2:Also have a store, a shop, a shop. We'll be honest about it, yeah.
Speaker 3:And one thing about that is that you want to design something that you would really buy and use it for some time. But whenever we can, actually, we will give some of that for free.
Speaker 4:Even GitHub they have a shop.
Speaker 3:The t-shirt.
Speaker 4:I got was from a shop. They just gave a voucher to the winners.
Speaker 3:Oh nice, Very nice I visited them in San Francisco and these guys really I would say this also encouraged me a lot to continue actually believing that community could really work. You know, when you're building communities, it's not the easiest part of things. So when I visited them to just say thank you, because I just felt like these guys even could support us kilometers and kilometers away, so they were really excited. So we took a few photos and then they took me to their store and they said do you?
Speaker 4:want some nuts. What did you get?
Speaker 3:I got a t-shirt that I still have, but it's smaller now. They should give it away. It's really quality stuff, someone is saying I should give it to them. But that one, you look like a dress.
Speaker 4:With a very big smile.
Speaker 3:You look like a dress to me.
Speaker 2:It's fine. Github dresses are okay. I look for it actually.
Speaker 3:I don't mind. Or maybe get you a new one. It's on record.
Speaker 2:GitHub, do something.
Speaker 3:You could be part of this podcast once in a while.
Speaker 1:You're looking also for partners?
Speaker 3:to keep highlighting more hopes.
Speaker 1:More stories.
Speaker 3:More hopes. To give hope to the hopeless.
Speaker 4:To the other techies.
Speaker 3:In another life I would be a msani. So hope Parting shot.
Speaker 4:Alright, my, I would be a Muslim, so Hope parting shot All right. My parting shot would be in life. We need to continue learning. Continuous learning is so important and also exposure. I don't think I'd be seated here if it was not for the people I met, the friends I made, the mentors along my path, my family members, always telling me you can do it, believe in your dream, believe in what you want to do. That's very important in life. Find people who want to see you become a better version of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Very key.
Speaker 3:Do you want to go first or should I? Me, I'll go key. Yeah, do you want to go first or should I?
Speaker 2:Me, I'll go with the proverb. So you want to close off with a proverb? I?
Speaker 3:can? African proverb yeah, but ladies first.
Speaker 2:All right, yes, For me mambo ni matatu. One learn publicly.
Speaker 3:Learn publicly.
Speaker 2:Two network and join communities. Three mentor and be mentored.
Speaker 3:Ah, very nice, Very nice.
Speaker 2:Very nice.
Speaker 3:Ah, that's wonderful, Sylvia. So we are making it a culture to like find an African proverb that we give our listeners, then you know, and then finish it off. So today's proverbs comes from. I don't know where it's coming from, but it's an African proverb the smaller the lizard, the greater the hope of becoming a crook.
Speaker 1:Let me repeat that so that you can see it.
Speaker 3:The smaller the lizard, the greater the hope of becoming a crocodile. So what does this proverb actually teach us? Because, you know, african proverbs are not just for the sake of it. It teaches us it doesn't matter where we are. We should have some sort of drive to be better. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:Yes, my parting shot is in this life. It's not like a one-off kind of, and I see most people actually live like they have gotten there. It's a journey At whatever space you are in, and that's why I would use Elon Musk as an example. If you think about Elon Musk, he bought a 1.2 million US dollar, I don't know, some Cayenne or something, some nice car, back in 1990-something, 1998 or 1997. But did that actually? If you see that guy right now, he's starting out right, and this actually goes to our tech bros and sisters out here. Is that? Yes, it's okay to make good money, it's okay to see the fruit of what you struggled for.
Speaker 3:I know some of us come from you know and most unlikely backgrounds, and the reason I'm saying this is because when I started actually there was not nothing much to show for it. Uh, you have to go to abroad and all that you know and stay there. But uh, over time I've realized that people are taking the wrong tangent towards these technologies software engineering or that. So my parting shot will be let's solve problems. Let's try and see how can we use these skills to impact people, african people per se, because it doesn't matter how you look at it, we're still behind in several sectors and even our economy is not really doing well. So let's build something sustainable and long-term For those who have already made it, especially the billionaires and trillionaires of this Africa. Let's try and invest in these young skills so that someone doesn't survive on noodles for the next decade and you could actually make it possible for them to build a solution that can actually create more wealth for everyone, so governments should create policies that support, not discourage, someone like.
Speaker 3:Hope to pursue this to the end, and may God be with us. After all is said and done God gives and human takes. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Alright, and with that we have concluded our chat this evening or this night, rather, yes and for all those who have been following along, thank you so much for sparing the time for being with us, and we really do hope that you have taken some nuggets with you. We hope you took nuggets from Hope, yeah. Yeah, for those who are listening back, remember to like, share and subscribe. Share it with as many people as possible and re-watch it and re-listen as many times as you wish. That is it from us, from africa's stalking and impact masters podcast. We will see you in the next one.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye.
