Impact Masters Podcast
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Impact Masters Podcast
#45 Innovating for Change: Empowering Rural Tanzania with Catherine Kimambo
What happens when you combine passion, resilience, and an unyielding commitment to rural development? Catherine R. Kimambo, the founder of African Child Projects, answers this by sharing her transformative journey from Arusha to Dar es Salaam. In this episode, Catherine takes us through her bold decision to forgo university to pursue global volunteering, a choice that set her on a path of advocating for affordable internet access and language-inclusive AI technology in Tanzania. This episode promises to inspire and educate, offering invaluable insights into her experiences with the Erasmus+ program, which ultimately inspired the creation of African Child Projects.
Step into the contrasting worlds of Arusha and Dar es Salaam through Catherine's eyes. From personal anecdotes about life in these cities to the vibrant cultural experiences, she provides a nuanced perspective on how these environments shaped her vision and actions. We delve into the African Child Projects' impactful ICT initiatives across Tanzania's 26 regions, where a dedicated team of youth is empowering local communities with digital skills. Hear heartwarming stories of introducing students to computers for the first time and learn about the significant strides being made to build confidence among African children.
Technology meets inclusivity in our deep dive into the Mozilla Common Voice project and its Swahili initiative, Sauti ya Jamii. Catherine discusses the importance of including diverse voices in technology, particularly for non-English speakers and people from various tribal backgrounds. We explore the challenges and successes of engaging women and other marginalized groups in voice data collection, the ambitious plans for the African Child Academy, and the broader implications of expanding these initiatives. Catherine’s story is a compelling testament to the power of youth-led innovation and the potential of technology to transform rural communities.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes. Welcome once again. It's a beautiful day and you are blessed to be in Darussalam, tanzania, once again. Thank you, what's up? Bongo Mpopoa? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:This is Impact Masters Podcast, in collaboration with Africa's Talking Retour Podcast, brought to you by Michael Kamadi of Yont MK, telling the stories of Impact Masters, movers and shakers in tech. And today, today's a bit shiny and if I look at my back, I can see Indian Ocean quite a beautiful scene. And today we are hosting Catherine R Kimambo, the founder and executive director of African Child Projects. You can find these at africanchildprojectsorg. It's an NGO that aims to change the narrative about African communities and its people through transformative projects in technology, education, policy, regulations and rural development in Tanzania. Additionally, she serves as a community champion for the Common Voice Project under Mozilla Foundation, which will be delving in extensively Working on language-inclusive AI technology by creating a voice dataset for the Kiswahili language.
Speaker 1:Catherine represents Basic Internet Foundation. Norway Founded basicinternetorg in Tanzania, advocating for affordable internet access for all. She boosted a vast background, including being an alumni of YALI East Africa, a European youth volunteer, erasmus, erasmus Moody is 2017. Open Space Foundation in Bulgaria, a 2022 Microsoft Founders, hub Scholar and a member of youth IGF. Catherine's dedication extends to being a blogger and storyteller, sharing inspiring narratives on how the internet is positively transforming rural Tanzania. Emphasizing internet for good. Welcome once again. How are you, catherine?
Speaker 2:I am fine. How have you been?
Speaker 1:I'm good. I'm good, so forget about what I just said, because that's what you want you know the world to know you for. But there's who Catherine is, and I think it would be beautiful if we start from that point where you tell us who is Catherine. Where did Catherine start? Leave aside the biography that you just read Let us know Catherine for Catherine, not Catherine for biography.
Speaker 2:So could. Mixing is allowed right biography Okay, so could mixing is allowed, right, yeah, okay, sure, so the way I'll describe Catherine.
Speaker 2:I would say she's resilient, curious, adventurous, patient and also loves to work in a team. I think that's because I'm a Libra as well, so that adds up to the balance. I'm balanced. I love everything about equality and balance and that's why, you see, most of my work gravitates around how do I bring certain services to people who can't afford. So that's how my flow has been. But if I say resilience and patient, I think it takes me back to when I started.
Speaker 2:When all this started, that was 20, I started this journey in 2015. I think it was as soon as I finished my Form 6 studies, and then I wanted something different for myself. I really wanted to know what's out there apart from just studying, getting a good degree and then applying for a job, and then that's the flow that the whole world sets for us. So, as a youth, I wanted to see what's out there, what's different, what's something different I can do with myself. So I started as soon as I finished my Form 6, I decided I was not going to apply for university. I think my parents freaked out. They thought it was all about peer pressure and maybe somebody just influenced me or maybe I'm on to something, but deep down. I just knew that there was something more out there apart from just studying and getting a degree, so I applied for different volunteering opportunities to travel the world and see what's out there.
Speaker 2:I started engaging in different projects at a very young age and then something kicked in. I think I got my first, first volunteering opportunity with Erasmus+, the European Union, and that was a shock to my parents. When I told them I have a ticket and I'm traveling to Bulgaria, they were relating it to human trafficking.
Speaker 1:Somebody could be kidnapping you. How can?
Speaker 2:you just travel out of nowhere. Your clan or your family has never traveled abroad, so I would love to term myself as the first. I think I'm the first to do many things in my family. I'm also the first to do many things with different youth groups that I meet. I've pioneered different projects at a very young age, so for me that's the resilience that comes with it. I think also the patience to nurture things from the ground to see them grow. So that's how I would describe caffeine. If you leave aside the bio and the accolades deep down, I'm just someone who wants to explore the bio and the accolades Deep down. I'm just someone who wants to explore, someone who wants to see what's out there, who envisions different outcomes that can come out of something and not going with the status quo or the norms that are set by us, by the community.
Speaker 1:Do you come from Dao? You were born here, bred here, everything.
Speaker 2:No, I was born in Arusha, a region just. I think we're close to Nairobi.
Speaker 1:We're neighbors, practically Two hours drive yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I was born in Arusha. The first time me coming to Dar es Salaam was when I finished Form 6. Okay, relocating from the place I was born to a new city.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Starting afresh and deciding I was not going for college. So this is. I would term Dar es Salaam as the land of opportunities.
Speaker 2:Everyone who wants to do something different or start something new with their lives. They come to Dar es Salaam to just explore and see what's out there. And it's not false, because there are a lot of opportunities for most people who know what they want when you come to this city. So when I relocated in 2015, I knew exactly what I wanted and this looked like a land of opportunity for me to get what I want. So I relocated here in 2015 to date.
Speaker 1:Now that you've come from Arusha, how is the experience growing in Arusha?
Speaker 2:Arusha is a very small city. You can find your way around easily. I remember coming here for the first time I was very scared to move around because of the stories you'd hear about Dar es Salaam. I'm sure you've been it's the same hustle as Nairobi, the capital cities, you know. So when you want to get to public transport, sometimes you have to enter through the window.
Speaker 1:I've seen a couple of videos around. That it's true. Did you ever get into that experience? No, you look flexible, though I can pass through small spaces.
Speaker 2:But no, for me it was, I think I wouldn't say cultural shock, but the adaptation that came with moving to a new city, having to learn everything from scratch my way around and all that. I think it took some time for me to adapt but luckily for me I had friends who have been living here, who I studied with, so they easily took me in, wanted to show me around and so that for me was at least assisted in the adaptation phase of relocation that's nice.
Speaker 1:What is your craziest encounter in Arusha that you can't forget?
Speaker 2:craziest encounter in Arusha.
Speaker 1:And it can be both good and bad. Okay, let me see.
Speaker 2:Oh, Dar es Salaam, my first time coming here. I think craziest encounter in Dar was when you're walking around in the city and then you wear your backpack on your back because it's a backpack, but in Dha you have to wear it at the front because someone could be opening your bag in crowd places.
Speaker 1:Wow, is that crazy.
Speaker 2:And take something off your backpack. So when I was walking at some time I think it was 2015 when I came in, when I was freshly from Marusha. I was wearing my bag and there was money in my backpack and so, as I'm walking, someone was opening my bag, and then people could see someone doing that, but they're not going to tell you so as soon as you discover, if you discover on your own that someone is opening your bag, that's when they start to assist you.
Speaker 2:But if you don't they say, okay, let him just have his luck. He was lucky this time and so someone was opening my bag and then I could hear someone unzipping my bag and then when you turn around, you just see everyone moving around with their business. He's acting as if he's just looking somewhere else, but if you start walking he's also following you. So someone opened my bag and took the money out. Then I was like someone took the money out of my bag and then he was starting to walk. I said he took my money out, then people started chasing him and he threw the money and ran away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but in worst case scenarios people would start beating him up, you know those things Mob justice, yeah, but for me that was like a shock, because in Arusha you wouldn't have anyone doing that to you, yeah. So I think that also put me in survival mode. Most of the time when I'm in Dar es Salaam, you have to also okay, where's my phone? Where's my bag? When you get into public transport, when you're squeezing into the bus, someone is also squeezing into your bag and your pockets, yeah so it's a constantly survival mode in.
Speaker 2:I think those are the craziest moments, but apart from that, it's fun being here. There are a lot of things that you can do as a youth for fun activities, game nights, club nights please give us a bucket list.
Speaker 1:The beach to start with.
Speaker 2:as you see, we are at the almost close to the beach area, but also if you are up for a nightlife, I think Nereslam is the place to be Any recommendations. Havok. There's a place called Havok. The name speaks for itself. Yeah, so I've been around to different places in Nara and it's fun. But Arusha is a place where, at 9, 8, 8 pm, everyone is already inside sleeping, but here, even at 3 am, people are still out, so the city is busy throughout. So, for me that's a plus.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. So any interesting you know memorable moments in Arusha.
Speaker 2:interesting you know memorable moments in Arusha. So, for me, arusha adds up to my second personality, which is this person who loves to explore and adventurous. So I go hiking.
Speaker 1:In.
Speaker 2:Kilimanjaro. No, there are like small, small hills in Arusha Mount Meru, there's Tenggeru. The different places I go to hike the safaris in Arusha are Amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chef's kiss. Yeah, yes, who is that? Is that English Chef's kiss, it's.
Speaker 2:Ah, I see.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the safaris, hiking, camping. You can't find a camping place in da so if you were this person who is more outdoor in terms of nature and all that that I find in arusha so in my holidays I go to arusha, but when I'm at work, the restlam, the nightlife there yeah, so it's a more balanced that way, I see, yeah, is food more better in Arusha or Dar es Salaam? Food is expensive here. There's this saying that people say if you're visiting someone in Dar es Salaam, you have to tell them prior.
Speaker 1:Because they'd be like?
Speaker 2:what? Will they eat the budget? I think it's because of the economy and all that. So for Arusha, people are more welcoming. They can host you for a week a month. We host people at our home for a week months, but in that two days it's like yo bro, dude, switch yourself up.
Speaker 1:The Mgeni thing started playing, You'll be like aha Sikuya Tatu. They're like okay are you contributing to the budget?
Speaker 2:So it's different. People are more kind in Arusha, but here it's strict. The economy is way up there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, awesome, so you went to Erasmus. Is Erasmus Mundus and Erasmus Plus different?
Speaker 2:I think they're different Because for me, erasmus Plus was more of youth volunteering services, where you have exchange programs. It could be similar to the Mundus, but for us it was a youth exchange program where we had youth from six different countries in Europe and in Africa. So, in Africa. It was for Uganda and Tanzania, and then we had youth from Italy, from Latvia, then there's some from Germany and then there's some from Bulgaria in itself. And so you get together Different cultures, Different cultures learning experiences.
Speaker 2:I think for me that also led me to starting African Child Projects was when I went there, we were experimenting with things like Google Doc. I think that's like basic, but for us we were like, okay, our supervisors like open Google Doc and then we start writing and we were like, what is Google Doc?
Speaker 2:you know you're finishing from 6th in Tanzania and you have never interacted with a computer in your entire life. You're going to university for the first time. That's when you're seeing a computer. So I think for me that's what led me to start African Child Projects and look on a school connectivity project in rural areas for that.
Speaker 1:So you studied it while there.
Speaker 2:I studied it while there. Because, as part, when you finish the voluntary service, you're Because when you finish the voluntary service you are required to write a project and then they give you a small grant to write that project and implement. So you write a project of your choice.
Speaker 2:And then after that, you start implementing. So after six months, we learned different things, including creating podcasts with members from the community. We also learned how to write stories, to write scripts so that's why I do storytelling and blogging. We also learned how to write projects. So they equip you with different skills leadership skills and public speaking skills, everything. And imagine learning all that at a very young age and how it evolves to what you're going to do in the future. So for me, that at a very young age and how it evolves to what you're going to do in the future. So for me, that laid a foundation of what I'm working on now and also the small grant gave me a way to at least narrow down on what I want to do after I finish my volunteering service. And I wrote, I think, back then it was Africa Child Clubs. I wanted to start clubs in schools and for students to come together, learn something around tech and all that. And then people were asking me why african child clubs?
Speaker 2:you could have variety of projects yeah in african child, so maybe try find a better name. So it's like okay, maybe af, maybe African Child Projects, because the vision I have for it is we having multiple projects around technology and that's what we're having it now Projects around technology in health, we have technology in democracy, technology in education. So we shock ourselves every day on what projects we can come up with and how people receive them. I think for us, the biggest shock was technology in democracy.
Speaker 1:I think, that project was like what was shocking about it.
Speaker 2:How can technology influence democracy? I think that was the shock from us in Tanzania. There's no such a thing as technology in democracy. Even our elections are still the traditional ways. Where you go and vote, the way we interact with our government officials are still the physical interaction. So when you tell people that there's a better way to do it, which serves time and effort and resources, they'd be like it's not possible in Tanzania.
Speaker 2:So for us, the Ongiana Democracy project we call it Ongena Demokrasia speak with democracy and the phrase that when democracy speaks, technology listens. So it makes you think. What's it about?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's the project we've been implementing for a year and it's coming to an end, but a lot of promising findings have come from it. We've had a lot of researchers and just everything unfolding, I think from all the projects we've been involved in, and every time when something new happens or when we're able to invent a different type of project or any initiative for us, it's one of our proudest moments, I think, as youth, because we are 100% youth-led.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, how many are you in that project?
Speaker 2:In the organization yeah Six.
Speaker 1:Six, and is it based in Dao or it's distributed across the country?
Speaker 2:We are in 26 regions, across every region in Tanzania. So we are just a group of six youth and we work with a variety of people on the ground, who we call digital friends. We have trained 30 ITs who are working as our regional ITs. So we are just sitting on top of a huge team of implementers on ground and we are just administrating it all. So we found a better way to do it, Instead of being in every region we put money and resources.
Speaker 2:At least those people know their region. Some of them are from NGOs that are existing in those regions. So how about building capacity for those NGOs on ground instead of going to establish your own office in every ground? So that's how we've been able to be in every region and just implementing at a very short time. Our biggest success was at the beginning of the year. We went across 86 to 90 schools within a week.
Speaker 1:That's impressive. That's high schools, or primary schools, high schools. Wow, that's interesting. Within a week, we and what was the response in those interactions?
Speaker 2:The response is good. It's shocking how people want to learn, but they are scared.
Speaker 1:Also, there's that, the fear but also the excitement that's there so you'd go to schools.
Speaker 2:Teachers would want to learn, but they're also scared of telling you that I don't know this, so they'd be like I'm coming back they disappear and then you tell them this is a learning process.
Speaker 2:You can sit with us, say you don't know, we can train you Because that is the so-called ICT teacher. But they don't know. They know just by the books. This is how things are. But when you take computers with them, practically they don't know what to do with it. And one of my, I think, aha moment or one of my aha moment, the moment that melted my heart was when in this school we were training a kid how to switch on a computer for the first time, how to interact with the computer, and they were scared. They were literally trembling. Their hands were like this and we were like you can touch, you are not going to break, and they are touching like the to break.
Speaker 2:And they are touching the keyboard and pressing and they are trembling. I was like this is what I went through when I was volunteering for the first time. We are given a computer. Open Google Doc start walking and I was like. What is this? So that same feeling for me. I get to understand and relate to them in that moment, Because it puts get to understand and relate.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful, that's beautiful yeah, because it puts you in a in a situation where you you start realizing that, um, most of the african child, or even africans in general, um they're really, really smart, but they don't believe I don't. For some reason, people are taught like you, you're not enough. Like everyone else can do it, but not you, which is really unfortunate. And I'm glad of the work we're doing, because even for us, when we are empowering developers, the same same um thing that we encounter yeah but eventually people start now seeing these work.
Speaker 1:They build the confidence they go ahead and building different amazing things.
Speaker 2:Yeah and also just to add to that and at times no one tells you that you're not enough there's just this inferiority complex that you've seen from your community and you adapt it. You know you can see children at a young age. No one sits them down and say you're not enough.
Speaker 2:But, how do they know that they are not enough? I think it's the narrative that has been passed down from generation to generations that we are not so good, we can't compete with the global market, or I can't apply for that job because I'm not enough. Even the feud between Tanzanians and Kenyans we are always scared of you guys. We can't compete with you in an interview. I think it's just the mentality that maybe I don't know enough. So it's just that narrative being passed down from generation to generation. It could be silently, but also vocally, but it exists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it exists and it takes a lot of effort. That's changing very fast. I think it's a kind of initiative that you know the platform that we're creating for people to explore, and I think that's also another reason why we are doing this podcast, because these stories are never told and maybe some you, maybe some mainstream media will come cover it, and then just one minute 30 seconds which leaves a lot out.
Speaker 1:And also, I understand, because everyone is competing for that airtime. Some people are paying for it. So when we get to record this, we try to go deep to see what can we explore. Now you've been running this project for now, over six years.
Speaker 2:I wish Four years, four years right.
Speaker 1:We just celebrated our birthday last month, August. Wow, that's amazing. How did you celebrate the?
Speaker 2:birthday. It was our first time celebrating because we've been running the NGO for three years without stable funding. So this year we've had at least stable funding. So we took the team out for a team building activity.
Speaker 2:We even had the cake and dinner and had different games. For me, I think, as a founder, I was like, wow, we're able to do this because we've been operating from our own pockets, you know, year one, year two, year three. That's why, when I was saying, if you're speaking of Catherine, you're speaking of patience and persistence, because, imagine, you are asking, you have a side job where you take money from your side job and put it into this dream that you have. So that's where persistence and patience comes in, because you are not sure if it will bring fruit anytime soon. So for us celebrating four years and being able to at least do this small thing for the team and cutting cake together, it's crazy, I know right.
Speaker 1:You can see the excitement on your face.
Speaker 1:For those who will be listening for the audio. The video is also available on YouTube. Just check it out. Subscribe, comment, give feedback and if you want your story to be told, please let us know. Whenever we're in your African city, we can always hook up and tell your story. But, catherine, I want us to shift gears a bit and tell us how you got to know about Mozilla, common Voice, or how did they start? Did they approach you? Did they write you an email? How was that Okay.
Speaker 2:So I was working with a colleague of mine, um rebecca reiki timbo she has been a mozilla fellow for a long time and then. So mozilla was pioneering this new project, the common voice in tanzania, and they were looking for, um, people who can be community champions, champions. And so, since they wanted to reach a huge number of people in areas that are not very well connected or people who have worked with under privileged communities, and so she thought of me immediately and submitted my name for possible consideration, yes.
Speaker 2:So submitted my name and profile and then, after they reviewed my profile and the community that I've worked with and the work that we do at African Child Project, that's how I got to be a community champion, just to bring the aspect of inclusivity in the common voice, because it's all about inclusive of the Swahili language and also inclusive of different voices from the community. So that's how I got to be part of this amazing project, the Common Voice project.
Speaker 1:So please tell us more about Mozilla Common Voice and its mission. What is this Mozilla Common Voice?
Speaker 2:Okay so, as they famously call it, sauti Adyemi. Mozilla Common Voice Okay so, as they famously call it, mozilla Common Voice is a voluntary project where I think I'll speak now from a non-tech perspective. It's a voluntary project where we aim to increase the Swahili data set in the voice ecosystem. I think that's how I'll say it. So previously, when you would want to interact with services like Google and others, you'd have to have this accent and, like a BBC reporter to speak and get recognized.
Speaker 2:But for us, we wanted to know if we get online and maybe speak in Swahili in the accent like you know, we have like 200 and something tribes. If I speak my Swahili accent that is related to my tribe maybe somehow like the Chaga or what will I be able to get recognized by the software and also will it be able to give me the requests that I need? So that was like the whole idea behind the Sauchi Ajamio, the common voice, and for us, I think now reaching to that idea took us through various phases. I think I would call them different stepping stones for us to reach to that idea. So we have to collect sentences that we can feed into the machine. We also have to verify the sentences or validate, but then again I would just explain the terminology if you need me to. But also, after validating the sentences, we also have to clean. First of all, we collect, clean and then validate.
Speaker 2:After that they are fed into the machine and then now we are able to put our voices in in terms of reading them out loud and recording our voice. So that's how they call share your voice in the platform. If you don't know about the Mozilla Common Voice project, you can visit the Mozilla Common Voice on the website and you can create your account and be able to share your voice. So for us, that has been the learning curve for three years now, I think, collecting and we've been able to collect up to 24,000 hours of audios. But also different languages are now being uploaded. I think people are able to upload their local languages and making it of audios, but also different languages are now being applauded. I think people are able to applaud their local languages and making it making, I think, the voice, the voice technology, inclusive of non-English speakers.
Speaker 2:I think that's the. That's what I love most about the Mozilla common voice. Apart from Swahili language, there are also other languages across the globe that have been able to be fed into the project. I think Swahili came in on 2021. But before that, there has been a lot of interactions across the globe. People have been able to add their voices, add their languages into the platform. So it speaks of how are we being more inclusive, then again of other languages, of how do we make technology relatable to everyone and making them comfortable to use these services for non-English speakers, I believe. So that's the project as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the next question I have for you around this is what actually motivated you to be part of this project and what has that been experienced? Did your expectation met or did you feel like, ah, you know, yeah, just tell us that experience like what motivated you and was it met?
Speaker 2:What motivated me to join this project, as, since we've been talking from the beginning, I'm more about inclusivity of communities and anything that aims to making sure that everyone can use a service, everyone gets access to a service, and not excluding anyone, I think I'm in. If anything that aims to bring, I think I'm in. Anything that aims to bring inclusivity, I'm in. So the Common Voice Project also aims to do similar things to what I value most inclusivity. But also for Most of us, I believe. For me, the story that bought me for Mozilla Common Voice Project was I'm thinking of people in rural areas who would want to access a service online but can't read or write, but can speak. So I'm envisioning that they can get their phone and speak I need so, so and so and they can get that service. So that is what brought me in. But also, has it met my expectations? Yes, and beyond.
Speaker 2:There's a lot that I've learned through the project and the people we've been able to work with. We've worked with women's group. I've seen how they have seen value in the project. I've worked with youth groups in terms of donating their voices and I've seen how the impact has been. But also the data set that we've created has been able to be harnessed by different. Since it's open source, people have been able to harness this data and create solutions.
Speaker 2:I think there are projects in Arusha. There are projects in Arusha that were created by harnessing this data, and so that for me, was a plus, that the work that we've been doing from 2021 to date has brought value, has at least assisted someone somewhere in accessing a service or in developing a project. So for me, it has met my expectations and beyond, but also the learning that has been brought to me. I think before I just saw voice technology as something that exists maybe because I'm an English speaker, if I would tame it that way but also I didn't think of people who don't speak English or people who can't access these services the pain points. So for me, it has met my expectation in terms of I am doing something for others to also be able to access a service and be part of their movement.
Speaker 1:So in your own words, Catherine, can you describe to us what is this community champion and if there is any memorable experience being a community champion, yeah, please share that.
Speaker 2:Community champion, as the name states for itself, we are the ones who champion the Sauti Ajami or Common Voice project to different communities and we engage every community out there, so it could be community of people with disabilities, women's group, youth groups, communities in rural areas, just different communities that you have in mind.
Speaker 2:And my best memorable experience was when we were engaging a women's group. This is not just younger women, this is women above 50. Yeah, so getting these women was a hassle because we had to go through the women's group where they meet. I think they call them VCOBA, the Village Community Banks. So we speak to their leaders and then they tell these women that there are these people who came in. They want to are you to participate in the project and then getting their confirmation and then arranging transport for them to meet and then come to the session as soon as they're in the session now, explaining to them in simple language language what are they going to do and how that will bring impact. So I think we did it on women's day I was like women's day 2020 2022 and um.
Speaker 2:What I loved about that, it was the experience of me knowing that it's not about technology yeah it's about people, the people who are going to use this technology. At the end of the day, we can speak technology all day, but do people understand the?
Speaker 1:value what's important.
Speaker 2:Do you understand what's important for them? Do they understand how this technology serves them? Because, at the end of the day, we can create fancy technology that they can stay on the shelves, but something that speaks to people, and for them to take their time to come and sit on Women's Day, sit with you and donate their voices in the platform. I think that was like the biggest honor that we had that day, but this was a group of 50 women you recorded all of them this was a group of 50 women it was me and three other community champions.
Speaker 2:It was hectic, we were sweating. They had questions, tough questions, and some of them did not even know how to interact with their smartphones, because, for them, smartphones are all about WhatsApp and receiving calls and you have to log in with your email. Some of them do not even remember their passwords. They'll be like my daughter I do not remember my password, you just assist me. So that patience. I think of saying, okay, this is what I go through, I think, with my mother every day. They forget their password. You have to remember their passwords and yours. So that was it. Just gave me that.
Speaker 1:An African experience.
Speaker 2:An African experience, yeah, so some of them were like can I just give you my phone? You can do everything and then give it back to me. We're like, no, this is something you have to do. So it was a full day of just fun experiences. We have quite a lot of pictures that we took. I think submitted a good report to Mozilla and that was one of the highlight, I think, in the whole of three years of experience, because getting women above 50 is it's tough and they have to leave their daily jobs. Come and sit with you, I think for us. We got very valuable feedback from them, very good data set, but the stories that they told about the project and the curiosity and that was just heartwarming.
Speaker 1:And given that you had 50 women, were they all same tribe or different tribe? Did you get different accents, Different yeah.
Speaker 2:Different tribes, different accents, different age groups. There were women from 40s to 60s to even late 60s, so just different variants of many things. But, as you're saying, we got very valuable data set that day and I think it also influenced there's something that our overseers or our leaders at Common Voice were saying that there's also variance in voices for women on certain ages. So I think that was also a plus in terms of that tapping into that group and making sure we are not also excluding them in terms of data set.
Speaker 1:Alright, so with this project. I don't know if that was your highest challenge, but was there like a specific challenge that you faced throughout being a champion and recording this voice? And how are you able to you know, even if I and recording this voice, and how are you able to you know, given if I wanted to be a leader next year, what is that? One lesson I can learn that maybe you know, I don't need to go through the hurdle.
Speaker 2:The different challenge is the skepticism around donating your voice. Many people would want to know. Why am I donating your voice? Many people would want to know why am I donating my voice? What are you going to use with my data? You know the data privacy issues that have come up recently, so I think we get asked these questions a lot. Most people want to know why, why, why, why are we doing this? Is it important? Why are we doing that? And some people have even refused to donate their voices or give us the data set. So I think for me explaining to them about the project and all that, but still, it's a choice for someone to do it. We are not allowed, as community champions, to force people to donate their voices.
Speaker 2:So we've had those encounters allowed as community champions to force people to donate their voices.
Speaker 2:So we've had those encounters. But also for me the challenge has been getting people with disability to donate their voices, because then again we'd want to tap into that group and knowing what is their challenges and pain point. But then I think there could be the setup of the platform on itself, but also just the whole project. I'm not sure if it has touched that target group yet. So it's challenging when you want to, when you're speaking of inclusion, but then again you're excluding that group in terms of you have not reached that group. But for overall, I've not seen any challenges that I have faced so far that have made me lose hope in terms of being a community champion, because the people we've engaged with are enthusiastic.
Speaker 2:We are enthusiastic about the work, so it just trickles down to the people we work with and so far I'm seeing also there's a lot of people who are coming in to join the movement, so it shows that we are doing something. We have new people from DRC, so it shows that the Swahili's the Swahili's, you saw, so we also shocked when they speak Swahili as well. They say we're shocked at Kenyans at times, so it's also a learning curve for me as well. It's more good than bad in terms of experiences. Okay yeah.
Speaker 1:So what do you think, at scale, the possibility of this initiative whereby even forget about Swahili, because there are also, like over 200 languages?
Speaker 2:in Tanzania.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that's where these projects are going In. Kenya already they have a data set around Kikuyu Luwo, kimeru and, I'm sure, even here. Now that's the next stage. What are the possibilities?
Speaker 2:If I'm to be honest, the possibility could be, I'd say, 50-50. Because we would need people from those communities to give us their sentences, but then again the people who would read the sentences would still be them, because I, as a Swahili speaker fluent, I would not be able to understand the local languages. So up until now, we have not been able to reach to those communities. So if we are to include those other languages, the local languages, we really have to go all out in terms of seeking to get data in terms of sentences from those communities, and I've not seen any initiatives from that happening. But if it were to, that would be impactful, because there are people who do not even speak Swahili. As you know, swahili is the national language in Tanzania, but there are communities of people who only speak their local language and you can speak to them in Swahili. They'd be like what?
Speaker 1:is she saying?
Speaker 2:So that also is a group that we are yet to touch. So if we are to, we really need to go all out in terms of collecting their latest understanding. But still, in terms of Swahili, we are not yet there.
Speaker 1:I would say so, there's a lot.
Speaker 2:There's so much that is to be covered. So, in my honest opinion, maybe, I think, instead of seeing how we can include all the 200 in something, maybe, as in Kenya, the way you did, guys, we could also select from biggest tribes, and I think we could get a lot of backlash from this, because every tribe considers itself in Tanzania as the big, but More equal, more equal, yeah, and in Tanzania as the big but More equal, and I like that, by the way, because in Kenya we always have this tribal though I feel like it's brought by politicians for their own self-interest.
Speaker 1:But in Tanzania you'll never know their tribes. Actually, when asking someone which tribe you come from, they don't get offended. Try that in.
Speaker 2:Kenya. Could it be the case if there are a few tribes in a country, then that happens Like tribalism exists.
Speaker 1:I feel like tribalism is always castigated by individuals.
Speaker 2:And here in Kenya.
Speaker 1:I feel like strongly, I feel like politicians are the ones who always do this Just to divide and manage and just appear as a kingpin. There are advantages that come with that. I don't know how far you've gone with political science, but it's one of the strategies whereby you divide people. Divide and conquer, yeah, and then establish yourself as a leader there, and then, of course, now, if you speak as a community, of course there's weight that comes with that as opposed to an individual.
Speaker 1:But I feel like if we refocus our priority to development, economy, economic status and things that actually bring progress, then things like tribalism are not an issue. But ideally I hear you. There's more that needs to be done, but do you think from your experience there's more that can be done to make this a success?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think there's a lot of people who can harness the data that we use in terms of the Swahili data set. So I think there's a lot that can be done by the Common Voice management or leaders in terms of advertising, because most people do not know about the Common Voice project. I think it's us, who are the community champions, who know about it, so you can tell someone common voice. Some of them are even developers. They'd be like what is that? So I was speaking to someone who was developing our mobile app and I was like you can harness the data from common voice. What is that? So I think maybe a lot of advertisement around developer communities and partnerships for them to, and partnerships and partnerships for them to know about the Common Voice project and the vision behind it and how.
Speaker 2:Maybe the hackathon I think that happened recently at least brought to light the project and what it does. I think maybe the few people who participated now know about Common Voice. So maybe more projects like that to just create awareness or just advertising about the data set and the potential it can bring for people to harness it and create projects around it. That can also assist in making sure that when we want to collect more voices in other languages. People can see the impact that it has brought in Swahili language and so, okay, maybe this impact can also be applicable in my language, because if they don't see the impact in Swahili, how are they going to be able to maybe relate that impact to their local language?
Speaker 2:So, partnering with maybe African Stalking other communities, different, just groups of people Could be also the government telling them about what they want to partnering with. Maybe African Stalking other communities, different groups of people Could be also the government telling them about what they want to do with this data set. The government could also be looking forward to implementing something similar. So maybe partnerships, I think, can also appear to be fruitful in this era, Because it's been three years of the project and still very few people know about it.
Speaker 2:So I think in Tanzania that needs to be done more of that.
Speaker 1:And I like it because, for me, I just got involved with the team earlier this year. I think no, actually mid this year, and for us, automatically we saw the opportunity. The reason for this is that we have an API about voice, which actually we see a lot of use cases and actually you can tell me if this actually applies in Tanzania.
Speaker 1:Because, for me. I look at it from the use case base where a farmer who can't actually speak the proper Swahili but they know their local dialect, or even they know the small Swahili that they know, but they speak to this app that actually could translate that and make sense. For instance, a farmer, or they're looking for medication or they're looking for direction, they just speak to this browser plugin or app that is available on Mozilla Firefox or whichever channel it is, and then they get instruction that actually could help them. Also, I see disabled people using some of these solutions. The majority of people actually can't write, but they can speak.
Speaker 1:So for me, I see all those opportunities, but of course, as you've indicated, there are a couple of more things that need to be done. So for you, speaking to Mozilla specifically, what kind of initiatives specifically do they need to focus on Besides, you know, partnering with government or advertising from the project itself, because right now I know you can go on Mozilla browser, look for Mozilla Common Voice, like donate your voice, and you know it's stored as a data set, so what more can they?
Speaker 2:do, as you're saying, the projects. I think at the beginning for me, I understood that as the goal For farmers could be people with disabilities, anyone who wants to get around somewhere, anywhere, because that's how we use Google or Siri, that's how we use it for. So, if we are to really make impact, maybe localize it to that context, for it not to be up there for developers only. How is it trickling down to someone who just wants to get around and say, google, please, let me go to this place, and they just get there and they don't have to put an English accent and speak in a certain way. They can just get into online and speak. So I see that also being, I think, the impact, but also maybe pioneering projects with different, as I said, different communities or NGOs or developers, community, anyone pioneering project I think they did that in 2022 where there are two solutions that one and they harnessed the data and the solutions they created were very, very good. So I think more of that, because now we've collected a lot of hours in terms of data set. So how are we now moving from the process of collecting to maybe now developing solutions? So partnering with people who are already working with people on ground, communities on ground, and making sure that, as they're harnessing these data sets, they are creating very relatable projects.
Speaker 2:You know, I think the biggest challenge for us, as could-be developers or anyone, is we create the solutions that we want, the ones that we see. Oh, I see a solution somewhere. This will work, but do people need that? So, creating relatable solutions that anyone, anywhere, can use these solutions. A farmer, someone with disability, anyone can just use this voice data set. A farmer, someone with disability, anyone can just use this voice data set, and I think it will be revolutionary because a lot of people in rural areas some of them can't read or write, but they can speak, as you're saying. So how is voice coming in to bring about revolution in that area?
Speaker 1:I mean I hear you and also I feel like there's a need to go hard and go big. Perfect yeah, and for me I always look at it that innovation is not always concentrated in the cities right. If possibly you can go to like outskirts of the town. Maybe universities try to do some of this solution. Involve the locals.
Speaker 1:You'll find actually this is growing, but of course, again, a developer is very important in this key aspect and I've seen this come in several facets, because any innovative company across the world that does not really open the doors for the developers it cannot innovate so much. One because of capacity and two because they don't have the visibility of different people across different regions. And imagine now Africa, which has I don't know how many languages and one billion people, the kind of solution that people would be building and using and looking to harness from this, because, from what I understand, mozilla is just starting on this.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm sure most people will take up the mantle and scale. Do you think AI and machine learning the way it is right now with things like ChagiPT, BUD, GROK and all these tools that are really unnerving, the power of AI will actually fast-track this process will actually first strike this process.
Speaker 2:So when you speak of things like AI or machine learning, I think it gets scary.
Speaker 1:Don't worry, I can break it down. No, no, it's way up there.
Speaker 2:But you can be shocked that.
Speaker 1:For for people who are not take a savvy, we get shocked that we use these solutions but don't know that they are AI.
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day, I think communities don't care if I'm using AI or not, as long as it's facilitating the problem or it's assisting me in solving the problem that I had. So if AI is present or machine learning, if it's coming into play and fast-tracking the process, well and good, by the end of the day, the solution has to be something that people need. So if we are developing anything, if it includes all those technologies, it has to be something people need, because developers or us communities I repeat, at the end of the day, we develop solutions that we love. Ai is trendy, so let's put AI in. Machine learning is trendy, let's do that. But then people on ground is it something they can use? Do they have the facilities? Do they have the know-how, the capabilities? I think that's the aspect we forget. So we end up with good solutions on the shelf.
Speaker 2:So I think, if we are to really innovate for rural areas, let's see what is available there and what can work there now, because I've worked in projects are in areas for four years now. So I I know the, the hurdles that are there. I know what works and what doesn't, the opportunities that exist. I think that's one of the ways of the reasons why I also was the champion in the common voice, because I've worked in there for four years and I understand everything about it. I think in also Most of my. I would say like I am an expert in rural developments in terms of ICT because I've done it. I've been there, done that.
Speaker 2:So most of people would invest so much in the technology but they wouldn't invest in the skills for the people.
Speaker 2:So you have a good technology but people cannot use it because they don't have the skills and the know-how on how to do it. Not use it because they don't have the skills and the know-how on how to do it. So maybe at the end of the day, when donors are putting out funding, put an aspect that would also be of trainings to these people on how to use the solution, not all the funding to go to developing the solution. At the end of the day, the solution is there but people don't know how to use it or they don't have the skills or they know how. And also my work cuts across policy and regulations the policy that assists people in getting affordable devices, the policy that assists people in making sure that we have villages connected to internet, because at the end of the day, you have a solution that requires internet. People in urban areas will be the ones to use it, but also there's a lot of solutions that they can opt and not go for yours.
Speaker 2:So, if you want to create for that group, you have to know that internet is an issue. Affordability of your solution you want people to pay for your solution. Someone has to choose between buying seeds and paying for voice set. Will they choose that? So you have to put a lot of factors in Affordability, incentives, also training how to use your solutions. So factor everything in when you're developing the solution. Don't develop the solution and then force people to use it against the conditions that they're in.
Speaker 1:So I think communities have to. Actually, you have a very interesting angle to look at it which I have not thought about before, Because here I'm asking myself there are places, even where electrification is not there right. And most of these gadgets. They require, you know, the electricity to work. Most of these people also accessing the internet is an issue, and thanks to Starlink, actually, and I hope it lands here in Tanzania.
Speaker 2:I hope so too, yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like now that it's in Kenya, Malawi and Nigeria and some other few countries. It changes the dynamics because now you can go with Starlink in the rural place and still access the internet seamlessly and be able to train, be able to show things in the rural place and still access internet, you know, seamlessly and be able to train be able to show things in the real time.
Speaker 1:Uh, so some of those initiatives actually needs to join hands in one way or the other but also, of course, training people is very important because you know if I have a solution, or even taking. Taking even an example of a car I have a car, but I don't know how to drive. What's the use?
Speaker 2:of it.
Speaker 1:Now I have to hire a driver.
Speaker 2:I have to worry about Extra costs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and people might take advantage of that right.
Speaker 1:So I think that's very important. Do you think now, maybe involving? But I understand why the approach is okay, let's develop a couple of solutions around this. Let's collect as much data as possible because, remember, with more data we are able to train this data set more to fit actually most of our use cases as well as even when people are developing. So if the steps are like let's collect data, let's start developing and then train the end user on how to adopt some of these solutions, then I think we're on the right track. But if training is not there and I see why training would come last, because even if I train you to use something and it doesn't exist- it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:But I think that as a next step, that would be really, really amazing in terms of the steps. So Catherine ask Catherine, what next for you? Like, you are doing an amazing stuff. Now there's stable funding. Are you still the champion or you wanted over the mantle of someone else? Once a champion, always a champion, you're speaking like a soldier. They always say once a soldier remains a soldier, something like that, like you, served in the army.
Speaker 2:I would love to still be a champion, because I believe I have more to offer and there's a lot that we can still do with communities in rural areas. So I would still love to be a champion, but I also want to see more voices included of people from different walks of life. So maybe we could also have maybe women above 40 champion and see what they have to offer, because most of the champions have been youth and now most of our work is youth oriented. So let's see more perspectives, I think, from age groups. But also, what I love most about Mozilla, they have gone all out in terms of seeing that there's women representation in this project. Almost 80% of champions are women.
Speaker 1:Is that good or bad? That's a good thing, because I have my reservations. Why is that good? I?
Speaker 2:know. For me it's a good thing because you'd want in such a project if you want more. I think Kathleen used to say this perfectly when they were doing surveys. I think in the past they'd find that when they are collecting data sets, most data sets that exist were for men more than women, and so if you want to collect more data set for women, have more women champions who can bring in any good or fresh ideas were for men more than women, and so if you want to collect more data set for women, have more women champions who can bring in any good or fresh ideas on the table on how to include more women.
Speaker 2:So, that has. They even have a gender inclusion, something, police, and they are walking the talk.
Speaker 1:But wait a minute. Does that not exclude the men?
Speaker 2:It doesn't exclude. I say 80%, so 20%. We have men in men as community champions, but I love what they have done in terms of including more women, because if it went for that, then you'd find 10 men and one woman champion.
Speaker 1:But why not?
Speaker 2:50-50? Or you feel like ladies are left behind.
Speaker 1:You have to catch up.
Speaker 2:Now you want men's rights. No, no, no, ladies, you know, are left behind. Now you want men's right. I kind of feel like even if you went 80, 20, still they're able to collect data set from men, because men are always could be my own perspective they're always just up to and running to such projects.
Speaker 2:But women are more reluctant. They'd want to know why am I doing this? Why that? So for us to give them that assurance that I am doing it, you can do it, and they see there are women champions doing it. Then more girls and women have been more comfortable in sharing their voices. I see it as it could be reverse psychology or somehow how to bring more women on board in terms of seeing other women as community champions and believing that this solution is fit for women, that they are there doing it. I can do it as well. So we have been able to. Even the women's group. We have been able to do it with four other women. They are seeing us doing it, believing in what we are doing. That's why they are able to come in large numbers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's how. Wow, that's an interesting you know. And this way I think, thank you actually for expounding on that, Because every time I find someone who is saying, yeah, women all the time, women empowerment. I just want to know why?
Speaker 1:Because there are some people who are in this for wrong reasons for sure, but if that's the perspective, 100%, and I wish there would be 50-50 now women don't feel left behind, men don't feel like, you know, women are given all the goodies and just yeah, because it's also not true that women are, you know, up there if we look soberly. But ideally for this, actually, I totally agree with you and yeah, let's have more women more diversity, more diversity and also even maybe more champions in the rural areas, remote areas satellite towns cities. So that's it for Mozilla Common Voice. What's up for the African child?
Speaker 2:It is a lot. We recently launched our new project in partnership with Cisco and Silicon Valley Foundation.
Speaker 1:Very nice.
Speaker 2:So this project is massive. It feels like it has been building up from 2019 to date, like everything we have been doing has led up to this moment. It's all about digital skills. We've been talking about digital skills for years, because most people are more than willing to invest in infrastructures and build towers. At the end of the day, when we tell them about skills I'm sure you've heard me now here talk about skills it's a subject that is never brought up people assume, people already know so you put a tower.
Speaker 2:Internet is available. Everyone go online. How see? So we've been on ground and have seen this problem and we've been trying to speak about it in every platform Skills, skills, skills. And finally we've had someone now who has listened to our cry out and they are willing to pilot a digital skills academy with us. So we'll be starting African Child Academy.
Speaker 1:We've already launched across.
Speaker 2:TZ. We've already launched the project.
Speaker 1:So you'll have these academies in different cities?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are partnering with ICT centers.
Speaker 1:Like HuniHub.
Speaker 2:All ICT centers. So we've given a call out to all ICT centers to partner with us making sure that the academy exists in their center. They will be giving out free courses on Cisco, together with certification. They will be giving out free courses on Cisco and, together with certification.
Speaker 2:We will be conducting different study tours, field practices, anything concerning ICT, competitions, hackathons, because, at the end of the day, when we did a small survey on August to September, yeah we found out that people who are taking courses online only have certificates this huge but when you tell them what they learned or how are they going to practice it, they don't know how.
Speaker 2:So we wanted to answer to that gap that exists between you studying and taking your certificate and practicing. So we're going out speaking to different companies that as soon as someone finishes reading, programming or networking, can they come and do practical studies in your company. So we want to go a step further. Instead of only training them and giving them skills, how can they turn these skills into employability skills? How can they develop solutions with these skills? So it's not only about skills. I think that's the idea that we had at the beginning when we were designing the program with Cisco, but after the short surveys and our own personal experiences, we are seeing the potential to have these people practice these skills by partnering with companies. So I think African Stockings will be coming to you guys as well, if you have, if you allow us to at least bring in people to practice.
Speaker 2:I think that's the aspect that can transform now the skills into something tangible that they can use, could be products, could be solutions services.
Speaker 1:Sorry to cut you off. Tell us how we can get involved.
Speaker 2:Ah, we're there already, okay, so you can reach us through our social media pages. We have presence in all social medias. Ah, we're there already, okay, so you can reach us through our social media pages. We have presence in all social medias Facebook, instagram, linkedin, linkedin. We are most active. Our website we'll be launching a new website recently, in the coming month, so please feel free to write to us. You can email us, you can call us. We are just an open group of people and all our phone numbers and emails are out there, so you can email us, call us anytime.
Speaker 2:Our offices are here in Dar es Salaam, bezi Goigi. You can come to our office. We are more than willing to partner with anyone who wants to work with us, especially in this new project of SISC, of African Child Academy. We want to partner with you. We want to work with companies that are willing to offer places for people to go in and practice what they are learning.
Speaker 2:And, at the end of the day, I think it's not a once person, it's not only our achievement, it's us coming together to making sure that we are giving something back to our communities. And when we say we are doing impactful work, I think our vision is transformed communities, and it's now that I'm seeing that vision coming to life through the projects that we are doing, because when we are speaking of transformed communities in 2019, we did not know what transformed communities are looking like, but as years are going back, we are seeing it. I think, working with companies as we will be working with African Stopping in the future and any other companies that's how we are seeing transformed communities taking form. Very nice, very nice yeah.
Speaker 1:So, katharine, we are really glad to hear that, and you know telling your story exploring different opportunities to equip people with skill capacity building, partnering with Mozilla Africa, stalking Impact Masters, this collective approach to different things. Now Cisco and Silicon Valley Foundation. It's going to take that collaborative approach to really get Africa where it's supposed to be and also to showcase most of the innovation and smart minds that we have across Africa, and I wish you all the best in this. The only thing that I'm saying please, after this, we can see how maybe we can be part of it as Africa's Talking, and also as.
Speaker 1:Impact Masters, because that collective approach is needed.
Speaker 2:There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1:No one single person, one single organization can do it, and what you have done already is amazing. Thank you you asked me, so keep at it. I, what you have done already is amazing, thank you, so keep at it. I don't know how old you are, but of course I can see you're not that old. You can go really far if you really keep at it. But I've not asked one question. In all these initiatives, what is one challenge that you face as Catherine?
Speaker 2:As Catherine, I think it's the age.
Speaker 1:Oh the age?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because my work involves me being in places where there are people twice or thrice my age, and mostly in government, I think, and in other places. So you are speaking with someone on the phone, they're like, okay, madam, we're going to do this and that. And as soon as you arrive, and they're like who is Catherine Me, you?
Speaker 1:Is that crazy?
Speaker 2:It's that crazy. Yeah, because you're giving orders, you're giving directives, but as soon as they see you, they're're like this small girl, what is she?
Speaker 2:yeah, so that I was complaining I was complaining to my, to my mentor and he's like I think you have to add a little weight for people to take you seriously. But I think it's, it's the, it's the narrative in Africa that you have to be um, a person of a certain size to give orders or to run an organization or to be somebody. As soon as you're just a youth, youth are never taken seriously. So if you say African child is youth-led, these youth are not. Youth are never serious. That's the narrative.
Speaker 2:But when they meet a group of youth who are serious, they'll be like hmm, so that has been the challenge, I think people not taking us seriously because we're youth, and people not taking you seriously because you're a woman, but also people not taking you seriously because of your age I am thrice your age. What are you going to tell me? So our meetings with the government have been at least somehow hard because you, big chairs, you're sinking in, you're trying to speak about policy, how we need better policies. Yeah, so I think also for me, the second challenge has been knowledge.
Speaker 2:I kind of feel like I always have to learn, learn. If I am in the area of policy, I have to learn. What is all. So it's the constant learning. I think it's. I get burnouts at time from that. Yeah, Burnouts are real and the learning is continuous, but it's. I love learning, but at times it gets overwhelming when you're not sure now what you have to learn to do something, because I don't have an IT background and I'm running IT projects. My background is on international relations, so I constantly have to learn about IT stuff.
Speaker 1:When.
Speaker 2:I sit in meetings. I have to know what they mean by megabits per second. What is that?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Constantly learning, learning, learning. I've loved it and the journey has been good, but so far there's no life-threatening challenges. There's something we can handle, but it's the challenges that we face every day. So my mentor usually say don't take it personal, it's not about you.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I know it's never about me, so I'm always positive about it yeah.
Speaker 1:So what can you tell young guys who are really, you know, trying to figure out should I go the way, should I start this? Am I too young for this? You know? Am I too? You know? There are people who actually have self-doubt around these, and also people who take things to be. You know about them.
Speaker 2:About them.
Speaker 1:yeah, literally like you might say something, and you're just trying to for this person to get a sense and already it's becoming personal.
Speaker 2:It's personal, yeah, and then you know that doesn't really profile you.
Speaker 1:People find you unprofessional and also kind of. You know, should I take this person serious? Do they need some time to?
Speaker 2:grow.
Speaker 1:And in fact someone might be willing to give you a big project, but from that alone you might be like Am I making a mistake? Because you know it is what it is.
Speaker 2:I remember there's this meme going around about your president and I said I nearly won Ruto, William Ruto. I usually tell youth it's not an easy, easy journey. People think it's just merry and cherry. Because they are seeing us at our fourth year, they should have met us at our first year everyone was there first year or no people kept leaving.
Speaker 2:My mentor sat me. It's very first thing, very important you have a mentor. My mentor would sit me down and say people will live. You are the vision bearer. You have to have a thick skin, for when people leave, you have to know it's not about you. So from the very, very beginning, I got to learn the lesson that it's never about me. If someone lives, they've found a better job, a better paying job, a better opportunity. You wish them well and know someone else who believes in the vision will come.
Speaker 2:So we've had a lot of stuff coming in and out and I've had two people who have stuck with me throughout Until the year. We've been able to offer them, like stable salary. I am like I have. Whenever I talked about them. I'm like I have high respect for these people. They have, you know, the very act of them taking money out of their pocket and investing in a vision that you have just told them about. It just shows that the amount of belief and respect they have in that. So for me that has been the story from the beginning. So whenever someone comes to me, I think there are a lot of youth who come to me and say I want to start an NGO. I want to do this. I want to do like you guys are doing and I'm like we were not this four years ago. We were meeting under a tree somewhere discussing about our big vision of transforming communities, but we don't know how. But we just know we want to transform communities. So it has to exceed the benefits, it has to be more than that.
Speaker 1:So do you feel like some of these projects actually kept looping into each other because already you started started? Or you feel like this was meant to be.
Speaker 2:It kept feeling like we were also going with the flow, but also the flow was taking us into the right direction. We were not. My mentors would say don't fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with the problem, so you don't fall in love with your project. Fall in love with the problem, so you don't fall in love with your project. Fall in love with the problem that exists, because the solution could change but the problem is still the same. So the problem could be lack of this, lack of that, lack of that, but the solutions could be coming from different angles.
Speaker 2:So for us, we understood the problem from the beginning that this is what we want to solve. When we mean transformed community, this is what we want to see at the end goal. But the process here we did not navigate or we did not know what the process would be. But the end goal, we knew it and the starting point, we knew it. So opportunities that came our way, we knew this is for us because this speaks to what we value or what the end goal is. Way, we knew this is for us because this speaks to what we value or what the end goal is. Yeah, that's how we knew it and then again, um, understanding trends. I think we've been able to stay um in front of trends for most, of course. Now I was telling I think one of my team members was like how are you able to to see that digital skills is key? Because how? Because the government is now speaking of digital skills but you're already implementing a program that digital skills is key? Because how, because the government is now speaking of digital skills but you're already implementing a program on digital skills, how are you able to see the trend? But I'm able to sit and see the direction of where things are going. I think it's just like a third eye type of view. I'm able to see that.
Speaker 2:Okay, now a lot of resources are going into infrastructure. In the future, people will see that infrastructure is not the only solution. They will come to skills. We have been speaking about skills since 2019, 2020. No one was listening to us, but now the government will finish in investing in infrastructure. Infrastructure, they will see people do not have skills. We have already. We are already implementing a program on skills. So when we are pitching this program to to the government offices about it, they're like wow, we have been thinking about this. We want to partner with you and I say see, because they are going all out, spending all funds on infrastructure. People do not have skills. So, at the end of the day, who will use this infrastructure? It will be in vain, which we are hoping not to.
Speaker 2:So, whenever we were pitching this project last year, we were emphasizing on infrastructures and access is what the whole world is talking about. Infrastructures and access is what the whole world is talking about, but this small aspect of skills is what will hinder us from making sure that we are connecting. I think we went into the meeting of ITU. They were speaking about connecting the next million people who are still unconnected, but still, after connecting all of them, what's next? Yeah, so we're able, I think, the ability to understand trends. That's what I think most African startups need to just see how things are moving and know that. Okay, something is missing here, not feeling sufficient. We've already done everything. There's always something you have to niche market very nice, very nice.
Speaker 2:Let me not say that, but yeah, I like it Very nice Very nice Catherine Let me not say that, but, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:So this is really interesting and thank you so much for making time for us.
Speaker 1:I wish we had all the time in the world, because I feel like there's a lot, but I'll be coming to you know now and then at least a quarter, because I feel like you guys are doing so much, and especially in tech, and and there's not much coverage for it. Yeah, first time I came here was last no, not last year, but 2018, um, and last year I came back and even when I was coming last year, there were so many people telling me things are a bit slow. You know, guys are not so excited about tech, but for me, I believe where there's people, there's a solution. So, okay, nevertheless, I'll go, and if it just doesn't work, that's it. But look, we are here, so, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I'd like you to give a parting shot and, you know, tell our subscribers, even in Swahili, subscribe like, tell us your feedback, I will appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are coming to the end of our amazing podcast in Swahili. I love this saying. I think it was by certain media in Tanzania. They were saying something we are opening the world to those who want it. I think that's what African Stalking is all something we are opening the world to those who want it. I think that's what African Stalking is all about. You're opening the world to us to tell our stories, to share the untold part of our lives, and thank you so much for that, for opening us, for opening the world to us. So please don't forget to subscribe, to like to comment, to share and tell people about Africans Talking, tell people about this amazing podcast. I think you have a series of podcasts with different stories. Please listen to them, learn from these stories, because there's nothing new under the sun the same challenges we're facing, the same challenges that you could be facing, and you could see ways to navigate from our stories. So welcome. Karibu Nisana Dar Es.
Speaker 1:Salaam, karibu, tanzania, and I'm looking forward to hearing this podcast, Eri? Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much. Al-sante and I also give a proverb, but nowadays I want to be giving proverbs. I've realized that we don't say enough. There's this program in Kenya called Spice. It airs in the morning from Spice FM, so they talk about some you know objectives, things that are happening, and I found them actually really intuitive to listen to as opposed to just listening to just radio, and they always open with a proverb and what it means.
Speaker 1:But for me, I just stand with a proverb and tell you what it means. So I finish with a very nice Swahili proverb. Proverb in Swahili is Methali Methali Mzuri akosi Kilema, and it says a beautiful person Is not without a blemish, and I'll explain a bit. So if you go to any country In the world, there's always the positive side and the negative side. So for me, I'd encourage you not to focus on the negative sides, because we're not perfect. I think that's how the planet is built and people are more good at amplifying the negatives.
Speaker 1:So if you find anything that is negative, even about this podcast, just let us know through the comments. We always work on it and improve. We're not saying we'll be perfect. And if you find something negative about, just let us know through the comment. We always work on it and improve. We're not saying we'll be perfect, but improve. And if you find something negative about your colleague, your workmate, your boss, whoever it is, just you know, call them aside and Chief, you know there's this and that and that and find a better way of saying it, because not most people appreciate Most people.
Speaker 1:So let it not cost you anything, and then that will grow together, because, africa, we need to grow together, and this I've learned from Tanzania. So Tanzania normally keeps saying this that when Tanzania Succeed as one.
Speaker 2:Because you guys are like.
Speaker 1:You know, we are okay. If you are poor, we are poor, doesn't matter if you are not educated, if you don't know English, you don't know're okay. If you're poor, we're poor. If you're not educated, we're not educated. If you don't know English, you don't know English, then it's fine, everyone is fine with that. But unlike Tanzania, you go to other places and you find that people are a bit competitive.
Speaker 2:They're like I'm better than you.
Speaker 1:Life is not a competition right. I'm not saying people should just relax and know, but I'm not saying people should just relax and know, but please a beautiful thing is not without a plan.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'm your host, michael Kemadi. Kathrine is clapping. Thank you so much. This is Michael Kemadi, your host, or MK, if you want, representing Impact Masters in collaboration with Africa's Talking Retort Podcast. You'll find us in Apple Podcast, google Podcast, among many other podcasts around the world, and on YouTube. It's Impact Masters and Africa's Talking until next time. Thank you so much. God bless you. Impact Masters and Africa Stalking Until next time. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:God bless you.
