Impact Masters Podcast
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Michael Kimathi
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Impact Masters Podcast
#43 Empowering Communities Through AI: The Kalebu Jordan Story
What if coding could bridge the digital divide and bring innovation to the most rural parts of Africa? Meet Kalebu Jordan Gwalugano, a pioneering force in AI and machine learning from Tanzania, who is doing just that. From his humble beginnings in the rural town of Tukuyu, Mbea, Kaleb's passion for programming has led him to create AI tools that connect people beyond the reach of the internet and develop ingenious SMS solutions for farmers. His journey from mechatronics engineer to founder of Neurotech, a startup championing natural language processing for African languages, paints a vibrant picture of innovation, resilience, and community engagement.
We recount Kaleb's formative years, where science competitions lit a fire of curiosity in a young student eager to explore the practical applications of engineering. This passion propelled him through the disappointing reality of uninspiring college teaching methods, leading him to embrace coding as a self-taught endeavor. His pursuit of programming started with C and C++ and later bloomed with Python, enabling him to design impactful solutions and carve a niche in the tech community. The narrative also highlights the crucial role communities play in supporting young tech enthusiasts, emphasizing how collaboration can drive significant leaps in AI development for African languages.
Join our discussion as we navigate Kaleb's entrepreneurial path, from founding a chatbot company to creating Sarufi, an open-source platform tackling language barriers in AI. We explore the challenges faced, including the financial struggles of early projects and the strategic pivots that turned setbacks into opportunities for growth. Kaleb's story is a testament to the potential of tech innovation to transform lives, underscoring the importance of community involvement and collective action in building a digital future for Africa. Tune in to be inspired by how one man's vision is shaping the future of technology and language in his home continent.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's me again, this beautiful day Down in Dar es Salaam, tanzania. And today is a beautiful day, day of the Lord Lighting movers and shakers in tech, and today we are blessed to have one amazing person, an epitome in AI and machine learning. I don't know what I should start with, but I think the man can speak for himself. But ideally, we have Kalebu. I think most of the tech ecosystem knows Kalebu and if you don't know him, actually he works in the room. You can't miss him. How are you, kaleb?
Speaker 2:All is well. So you sound like I'm listening to a radio. Yeah yeah, so you're actually a DJ, I see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's nice, that's nice. So what's your full name? Kaleb.
Speaker 2:Oh, my full name. My full name, your full name Kaleb.
Speaker 1:Oh, my full name, my full name is three names Kaleb Jordan, guarugano. Guarugano. Very nice. So Kaleb was. You know, we tried to introduce ourselves. We believe a man should give his epitome of step-by-step, chronologically account of who he is. Who are you, Kaleb? From day zero.
Speaker 2:For me who I am. I am an explorer, you know. So I like exploring stuff, and then when I explore, I get so obsessed with it. So right now, what I'm obsessed with is AI. So I'm an AI enthusiast, I'm building an AI solution, but I'm also advocating for people to adopt AI solutions. So I'm kind of somewhere. I'm kind of exploring the AI phase.
Speaker 1:So, kalebu Kalebu, Let me just introduce you officially and then you can tell us. You know where it all started, right? So once upon a time and this is Kalebu speaking he was a mechatronics engineer, but his passion for innovation and technology led him down a new path. He discovered the world of programming and it was love at first sight. A new path. He discovered the world of programming and it was love at first sight. He spent countless hours watching tutorials, reading books and blogs and building projects. His hand paid off as he solidified his understanding and even added to the opportunity to showcase his projects, including an AI tool that connects people without internet access to the internet through SMS, that connects people without internet access to the internet through SMS, and a device that allows farmers to easily monitor and control conditions on their farm using SMS. As he continued to hone his skills, he found out himself working as a professional Python developer and machine learning engineer. He is also an advocate of open source software, maintaining over eight open source Python packages and sharing his knowledge with others through speaking engagements and writing articles and tutorials. He is currently the founder of Neurotech, an African startup that is building infrastructure for developers to easily build industry-ready natural language processing solutions for African languages. His passion for innovation and technology led him to fulfilling career and excited to share his journey with community across any digital footprint.
Speaker 1:So, kaleb, that's your professional. That's at least done. So who is Kaleb? Where did all this start? Where do you come from? Around in Jerusalem?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not from there.
Speaker 1:You're not from there. Yeah, I'm from upcountry. Upcountry, which side? So I'm from Mbea, mbea.
Speaker 2:And not just Mbea. I'm from some part of Mbea called Tukuyu Tukuyu, not just Tukuyu, upcountry, oh okay. Really upcountry area. That's where I grew up.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it doesn't get upcountry as Tukuyu. There's more upcountry, there's more upcountry.
Speaker 2:So Tukuyu is a town and you go more upcountry, but you go where I can spend most of my time here. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:What was the name of that place?
Speaker 2:M yeah, ah, that sounds the interior. So how many hours from da if you're?
Speaker 1:driving here. If you're driving like 14 hours from that, yeah, but is there another option like can you take a train?
Speaker 2:like there's a train. I don't know if that train I never took a train but, like a flight, is about one hour oh yeah, so there's a flight to yeah, there's a flight. There's a flight to Mbeya. Yeah, there's a flight. There's like an airport there.
Speaker 1:So you were born there, grew up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was born in Mbeya. I studied in Mbeya from primary to college.
Speaker 1:How was that experience? Did you get everything there? Do you feel like you're missing out?
Speaker 2:No, I mean not so much. I like studying near home, so that was quite like any day if I want to get out of school and go home, I can go. You know, that's what I like. So it wasn't much like I was missing out. Maybe later, when I'm thinking of pursuing like a tech career, that's when I saw, okay, maybe Mbea might not be a suitable place for me to continue my journey. But apart from that, m that today is quite good, the weather, I liked it.
Speaker 1:it was cold, but I don't like hot. And now I do you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you studied at um primary school, from uh to I no, no, not really not.
Speaker 2:I moved a bit in school, okay, yeah, so I I. I was studying somewhere called katumba primary school. And then I went to Mpanda Panda, I think on Saturday, and then, yeah, up to like seven.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mpanda Panda Primary School. Okay, okay, and what caused this movement Like, why did you move from one school to the other one? Parents, you know, parents, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so parents moved and then, yeah, I had to follow my like. Yeah, then I had to follow my dad. I had to follow my dad. Yeah, so that's why I moved to Fumagusa. My parents moved, and then I had to move.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So after Mpanda Panda you went to Yunga. Yunga, is it a secondary school right Like a high school right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it wasn't as great. In Lincoln I tried to steep some of the stuff Ah okay. You don't have to put a whole story for people to yeah. So basically, yunga is like you know, if you graduate from Science 7, you go. There's those like law school, maybe like school, maybe from I don't know what they call it, maybe school like I don't find a good name, but Iyunga was like a middle school and there was like top school, like maybe for very like talented students.
Speaker 2:So I wasn't selected to Iyunga secondary school. Yeah, I wasn't like very smart to be selected to Iyunga school. I went to another school from like the same Tukuyu, like area, yeah. And then I moved to Yunga because of my parents. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you said you're not that smart, I wasn't, yeah, you wasn't, but now you are Okay but now you are okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe I am because when I was in standard six I was one among the students that the, the head of school, choose to repeat the class. Okay, yeah, and then not in 36, 37, actually yeah, I was like, okay, the the head of school, come and like you're gonna repeat class, and then you're gonna repeat class and then, he forgot me. I begin to celebrate. And. And then he was like oh, caleb, you too.
Speaker 1:So that was very painful.
Speaker 2:And then my mother was a teacher in a nearby school and then he was like, okay, maybe I can talk to the head of school, maybe I can give you some time to catch up. And that was my lucky. You know, that was my only lucky for not repeating, and then from that on. That's when I began to pay attention to school.
Speaker 1:So were you playful when you were a kid.
Speaker 2:Very playful and troublemaker. Troublemaker like 100%.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say right now you don't look like a troublemaker, but most smart guys are always troublemakers.
Speaker 2:For some reason, I don't know, they never settle. I'm not a cool kid.
Speaker 1:What does cool kid mean in Tanzania?
Speaker 2:Cool is the opposite of tribal maker. Like you don't like.
Speaker 1:Any tribal yeah. When you say cool kid in in Nairobi, that means you're rich kid. Oh, I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. So so from class seven you were serious in school. You got good marks and then you went to the technical university.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't get good marks enough. But, I remember my head of school after realizing I began to excel in class. Yeah. Because I went from I don't know whatever position to number nine in class I to number nine in class I was like Kaleb. You know you should hunt for like special school. You've got to study hard and I did my best but I wasn't like I was not able to go to the special school.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Do you feel like you concentrated when it's a bit late?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it was a bit late actually. Maybe Because I don't know what I did, I realized I was in school when I was seven, now In the elementary class, yeah. So I mean, maybe if I had studied earlier Maybe I would go to a special school. But you know, it's all like you know. Yes, I'm a stoic now. So, maybe it was all like that. It was supposed to be like that. You know, maybe catch up later and then Go to technical school. By another way, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what happened then? Now that you're, you know you didn't go to the good school yeah, Was. Was that a bit discouraging for you?
Speaker 2:it was. It was I remember going to to like the selection of classes and then my, I'm thinking, maybe I went to one of the special school. I'm like looking at Caleb, where is the school, this school? There's no Caleb. It was very sad. People kept saying, caleb, you know, you've got a good marks, but why are you so sad? I'm like dude, I wanted to go to the special school but I wasn't.
Speaker 1:So special is like top schools in Tanzania.
Speaker 2:So there's special school and there's technical school. Technical school is like the middle school, you know, like they weren't very special. But, they're like at least you know you're medium smart, and then if you are like you know, really smart.
Speaker 1:You go to the special school and I wasn't even hunting for special school. You know, somewhere, even a medium, you know and you were not there and I was not there. Yeah, so you just, you were just taken to a technical school no, no, it wasn't as easy.
Speaker 2:It was like my dad studied in the technical school, okay so my dad was very smart okay, easy it was like, my dad studied in the technical school. Okay, so my dad was very smart. Okay, so he went to a younger school when in his age, not like in the days so he was like, okay, maybe I could go there and try to make an excuse and then maybe the parent moving out, and then you can get you there like, yeah, so so someone who doesn't report the replacing with you?
Speaker 2:yeah, so something like that. So my dad began a formal process, like from like district to whatever, putting a writer, like you know, maybe my parents going to study somewhere and then maybe so you know, you know how they move, if you you're too straight, you can never get a chance. So it was something like that. And then I I was able to to get a chance. They. They said, okay, maybe you're going to give good marks, but maybe not as excellent, but the max was not that bad. So, okay, maybe let's take you to. Yeah, so that's how I got to tekeko school yeah, oh nice.
Speaker 1:And when you get there you meet other. You know smart kids, right yeah, they're very like. Smart kid went there by max yeah, so how was that experience for you?
Speaker 2:I mean, uh, in the beginning, you know I was, I was actually, you know, you, you. You got out from a place where you were like one of the top people and you got to another very smart people, and then you were like in the very, in the very, in the early days you were like okay, maybe let me you think you still can catch up to that smart level but, after maybe two semesters, you're like no, no, no.
Speaker 1:I have to work harder than this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, maybe let me have another goal, that just being a top student, so that's where you like.
Speaker 1:Started exploring your career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean still, I was from up to form two. I think I was still an ed, you know, like love to study, but my first, like maybe form one, it was very disappointing. I was 64 student, you know.
Speaker 1:So 64 students, 64 yeah position 64 out of.
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe 100 or 100 or something, yeah so it wasn't very like from from one of the top people in class to. Is it that good?
Speaker 1:yeah, so realize, being smart also can be average some some other place. Yeah, yeah, you go some other place.
Speaker 2:You're just uh, you're just a normal person, you know. Yeah, so I begin taking like school, like, okay, not, maybe I should take it easy now, not that. Uh, yeah. So I remember I'm going to form three and then I was like, okay, I wasn't very serious with class, but that's why I began to excel in class even. Yeah. So I remember from three I began okay top's where I began to excel in class, even yeah.
Speaker 2:So I remember from three I began, okay, top five, so I began to excel because, yeah, I was. And then, yeah, so that's what happened. But I remember that there was. I don't know if, like, if I don't study hard sometimes in my secondary school, that's where I excel, but even if I'm too like, that wasn't happening, you know oh yeah okay, that's interesting so you stopped, you stopped focusing becoming a book warmer.
Speaker 2:Book warmer, that just like, just just normal yeah, studying like enough, enough, enough, just enough, but that's when okay maybe the brain just needed a little more rest and just accumulating stuff on the head. Yeah, that's when I was like maybe I need some more time to do other things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's interesting. So did you discover that in form two right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in form three, in form two, up to form two, I wasn't that much of a top class. I'm just someone in, yeah okay, average, average yeah so you started.
Speaker 1:Now, you know, taking it easy. And what was this that you're doing on the side? Is this just games, or oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I remember from three that's where I'm in so there's something in tanzania called young scientist competition. So they take, they go to school, they look at the kids which year, like, have innovative ideas, and like, okay, we're gonna go, we're gonna take you to da into with other kids, idea, idea, and then you're going to compete for a prize and this prize can give you a scholarship to go abroad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was very tempting, yeah, so I began thinking of it.
Speaker 2:Maybe, maybe I could get into this program, you know, yeah, so just before that happening, another, another thing came up. It's called San Sifia Project. So it was done regionalized, and then there's a national competition. So they come to school they're like, okay, what is your idea? And then you pitch, and then if you win in your school they take you regionalized now to compete. So I remember I was I mean, I was not an innovator, I was just a bookworm, you know. But I wanted that scholarship stuff and innovating stuff. Yeah, yeah, I was a fan of sci-fi, but not to the stage that I turns me to an innovator, you know.
Speaker 2:So, it's just I love that stuff of building stuff and doing stuff, but not to the stage now, Like of me getting hands on to it. Yeah. But I remember now, um, when that first transport came about, I was very um, I liked it a lot, and then I went to like a library took wikipedia maybe I can find something.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, yeah. So you started now becoming curious on what actually? What can I do understanding science?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've seen science, not science to this like practical science, so like coming up with an innovation now. Yeah, so it was not much on engineering, but in the days I was very good chemistry, chemist, I was like maybe I want to be a chemical engineer, you know, because I was a very good chemist and then the idea came with the Sunspot Project. It was something like I don't know, I forgot even the name. It's been a long time ago. But something like multi-producer stuff. It was more of like chemical stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which year was this?
Speaker 2:I think, I don't know 2015. I don't know 2015,. I think Is that a?
Speaker 1:long time ago.
Speaker 2:No, it looks like a long time ago.
Speaker 1:You're the second person in Naa who I've talked to and they refer to like five, six years ago or eight years ago as a long time ago.
Speaker 2:So 2015 is eight years ago, right, yeah, eight years ago, or eight years ago as a long time ago?
Speaker 1:uh, so 2015 is eight years ago, right eight years ago, just years ago.
Speaker 2:It's quite a year because you've gone through phases from secondary to college to street so if you, if you, if you take that time of experience like 10 years ago, yeah, it's quite, it's kind of crazy okay.
Speaker 1:So, um, now, if you, if you think about that journey where now you think like okay, there's this science contest where you're going to compete and go abroad, and even for you, coming to die is something you know something exact, yeah, I've never been to die at that time. It's just there, yeah and then you start even going to the library checking out an encyclopedia, trying to learn science and whatnot. Do you think guys right now in the school are getting that opportunity?
Speaker 2:I think they do, because I think young scientists keep existing. Mine, which has triggered my innovation, was not a young scientist, but it was called the Science Fair Project. I'm not sure if it exists, but right now there's a young scientist, there's Makisatu. So Makisatu they do like a competition from secondary to primary to university level. You bring innovation and then they compete against the people.
Speaker 2:So I think they do Right now. I think they're realizing even. I think the curriculum is changing. So maybe not too much because it was about more like okay, getting greatest, but now they're trying to, okay, maybe put more practical and more teach people to do stuff rather than just cram stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and for you, such activities you know from your experience is what actually started exposing you to the tech and what is happening in the world of science. Right A?
Speaker 2:hundred percent.
Speaker 1:It was from chemical design.
Speaker 2:I remember I kept participating in the tech and what is happening in the world of science right hundred percent it was uh from from chemical design. I remember I I keep participating, competition, I keep designing. I was writing papers I was writing stuff you know, I I went to. So they said if I get obsessed with something, I'm full into it yeah, so I became a nanny now yeah um, I remember our biology teacher gave us a like a biology lab.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had a key. Any time there is chemicals, there is copper, there is whatever in a library, I could do whatever I want. And then around when I'm in form four grade I begin to get interested with engineering. Now, because all the previous form three that was mainly chemical, engineering, chemical stuff. But form four that's where engineering captured my heart. Years, years and stuff and then, which even led me to choose mechatronics as a college, because of form 4 now yeah but still the same, like kind of create, trying to create something uh creative.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, um, now you at this point, I think, is your turning moment, given to what you're doing right now, and for you now it's even changed from being the top student to can I understand the subject matter of what is happening in the engineering world, right?
Speaker 2:How did this change perspective on how you look at things? Are you talking about back? Can?
Speaker 1:you refresh all your, you refresh all your questions. So, if I understand well, yeah, yeah, so so you said at this point you're not struggling to be number one on, you know, top student, right, it was more like you're fascinated by science, correct? And for you, you see more opportunity of even going to town competing at a regional level, you know, country level to international level. How did this change perspective of how you look at now? You're in school, I'm going to class, there's a teacher teaching something, there'll be an exam, but of course do I want to understand the subject matter?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think it quite changed because I didn't look at the class itself. So it was always my chemistry teaching. I'm always looking. Okay, where can I put this? Can. I add this to that design, and then it can react whatever.
Speaker 2:So I think even my class began to be more like, like yeah like a lab for me, like I, like I draw into imagination of what each other teaching, but not every class, you know. Yeah, but um, and I didn't. And then my future began to change. Like they look at the future, uh, yeah, begin to change because before I was thinking maybe, uh, I'm gonna be a neuroscientist, but now I begin thinking my, my future as a scientist.
Speaker 2:So that's why it completely changed my like, flipped, my, my, my, my, the career, like, uh, future I was imagining from like a career that you know, you know, I want to be a doctor, I want to be this and you, and to do that you need just to study, study, study, get a, a, a to get that career. But he told me, like, okay, no, no, no, it's not that far ahead. If you want to be that, you're going to be, start doing this while you're here, and what can you do now? Yeah, so I think it's. It made me more like yeah, it made some classes a lot of funny and other classes more boring.
Speaker 1:I know what you mean. So at this point, do you get good grades to go to university or?
Speaker 2:no, no, no At this point. Do you get good grades to go to university? No, no, no, no so the normal way is you don't go to university. The normal way is that you go to advanced school and then you go to university.
Speaker 1:Which was previously from 5th from 6th, from 5th from 6th.
Speaker 2:But for me I'm like no, from that moment, moment I saw myself, I began to diverge a bit from class and then I know like even now I'm going to just focus on chandy stuff or PC and PCB to want to work well for me so that's where now I begin.
Speaker 2:Okay, maybe I can take alternative route instead of going to advanced school, I can go to college. So that's been invading to my mind, I can take an alternative route instead of going to advanced school, I can go to direct to college. Yeah, yeah, so that's been invading to my mind. And as I do research, I found that there's a course called mechanical engineering. Hmm, synergy, computer and mechanical. Yeah, that's where, like, yeah, so so I, I, I, yeah, like, let me get some good marks to take me to university.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, perhaps it was not quite easy, you know. Yeah, no, going to invest is not easy, of course the harder part was not the marks.
Speaker 2:The harder part was like in my family where I'm the first born okay I have three sisters. The first one went to advanced school, second one to advanced school, the third one went to advanced school. Yeah, and then, um, now telling that idea to parent, like I don't want to go to advanced. And then, while you still get good grades, like you get Division 1, but it's like okay, I don't want to go to university. They don't get it. They're like, okay, this kid is confused.
Speaker 1:Did you get like Division 1?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. I biology, but you didn't want to go to the advanced school. I didn't To advance the school, I didn't want to go to the advanced school.
Speaker 1:What is this? Advanced school, form 5 and Form 6.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to go to that class Because I saw, okay, it doesn't add any value.
Speaker 2:There's this thing in TZ if you go to advance, the chance of going to study what you want is actually dependent on the marks that you score and the final marks. So I didn't want to take that roll of dice that my future is uncertain, so whatever I'm going to score in my PCM or PCB is going to determine my entire future. I can go to mechatronics, and then here's my future and grow with it. So I didn't want to play dice. I said, okay, here's what I want. And I didn't want to play dice. I said, okay, here is what I want. And I know for sure this is what I want, I'll go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you just went to mechatronics.
Speaker 2:Mechatronics. And then, yeah, it was. So I did in selection in form for you to select like advanced or college. Okay. So they automatically selected me to college.
Speaker 1:I was not selected. Okay, okay, yeah. And you joined college where you're doing mechatronics, correct? Did you find other more smarter kids than you?
Speaker 2:Definitely yeah, always First day.
Speaker 1:You realize now even you're not smarter anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's not about smarter now. So my obsession now became it's not about, okay, who are smarter. So if I find smart people, I want to learn from them. You know like okay, yeah, okay yeah, so I remember so right before college. That's when I you see, now I'm going to court, but that's the journey was not. Before going to college I begin doing the code adventure. So my, the way I judged smart when I got to college was not by the maxi score. It was like what do you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, for sure. And. And at this point you realize oh man, I need to learn more stuff. Uh to just uh, and. But before even that, what actually is the grading system in in mechatronic college look like? Is it the max anymore, or is it the experiments? Is it the projects that you build?
Speaker 2:it depends yeah, is it combination?
Speaker 1:it's combination yeah, so you do a lot of projects there not a lot. It's not even like it's not a lot of maybe final year but, it's more like practical exam yeah, so there's more practical exam whereby you you build a project or how does it look like yeah, so final year, yeah so. So in this case, if you're doing a practical project whereby you know so like a project project, it's more like an experiment that you do in a lab, right?
Speaker 2:I mean we did a lot of that because we can use broad. It's more like director guiding us. This is how you do. Yeah, sometimes, if you're interested enough, you can approach the lecturer like, okay, can I have some more time to use the lab?
Speaker 1:yeah, some people did that. And what would you be doing in this lab if it's not a project? What is in this lab? Is it an engine? Is it the gears?
Speaker 2:is it because in our college we had a mechanical like workshop where we saw a lot of like machines like bending machine into whatever you know, all mechanical machine? I haven't got a name it's quite some time.
Speaker 1:did this help you now visualize most of the learnings that you've been doing since primary school, and sciences and all that? No?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So before just going to college, I began like Googling a lot on YouTube what is mechatronics and like? What do mechatronics and like? What do mechatronics do? So when I'm going to college, I had very high expectation. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so you got, disappointed I was disappointed Because what I was seeing on, I was seeing on online and people doing mechatronics in the industry. There's, you know, people in white coat yeah, putting this cheap and turning on a robot. That was my, that was my fantasy going to college. Like this is what I'm going to do, you know sci-fi movie not sci-fi by say industrial Like yeah, it was. I didn't say it wasn't that good like in teaching, but I'm saying my expectation was way higher than college.
Speaker 1:Okay. Did this discourage you? Or how did you navigate the two? Is it two years college or three years Three? Because this is now maybe first year. Second year, yeah, how did you navigate this, now that your expectations are not met?
Speaker 2:I mean from the day before I went to college, I began to be fascinated with code like programming. Yeah. So even from like first year to second year to third, my whole consultation was coding you know, like building software, like learning to act, wait a minute In this mechatronic.
Speaker 1:did you start first year by coding or I started?
Speaker 2:coding way before first year Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who introduced you to coding, or how did you get about that?
Speaker 2:So the reason that was my friend. They went to US because of coding and this is my friend. I knew them like I know them, like I can touch them, you know they went to US.
Speaker 1:You're so tight with them, yeah but you know.
Speaker 2:So one of the reasons they went to US was like they knew how to code, yeah, and that was inspired me. Now, okay, let me learn this craft, maybe it may take me to some place someday. So I remember going to my brother and my brother was like my cousin was studying at Bay University. So I'm like give me a tutorial to code, give me where do I start? They give me like a bunch of C plus C tutorial. Give me a DVC plus plus like an AD for coding C. And then I went home to like find myself, okay, how do I set to code? So when I'm going now to college I had a bit of an idea on what coding looks like. What is C programming, yeah. So from there I wasn't much into classes. I'm like class so that I don't fail, but I was more into all the time on Wi-Fi getting tutorials, downloading tutorials as much as I can, coding, learning to code, building sample projects, something like that.
Speaker 2:So it went from first year to final year. My concentration was not on college per se.
Speaker 1:So which language did you start coding with?
Speaker 2:I started C and then I went to C++ until I think second year that's where. I got into Python, yeah.
Speaker 1:And this was not taught in your course, right?
Speaker 2:C was taught in second semester, first year, yeah. So we did a lot of C. In second year we did C++. So because mechatronics the way it works is that you're doing hardware controlling, so hardware C and C++. So because mechatronics is the way it works that you are, you're doing like hardware controlling, so hardware C and C++ are very powerful for embedded programming. So that's why you got LMC as a mechatronics engineer. So, we did some classes on programming.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and at this point you realize that coding is fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean fun, yeah, I mean I like coding. Yeah, so a bit of a story. I remember just when I was doing, before going to college, I wrote a paper called Beyond the Achimedes Principle, where I was challenging the Achimedes Principle. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wrote formulas, I wrote whatever. I came to the Commission for Science and Technology I'm like, okay, here's my paper I did and can you look at it? And yeah, so, but the short story, uh, I had not to just one paper, I had papers. You got free dynamics, nhs, I had a lot of papers, yeah. So my, my, my, my holiday from writing papers, but those papers never touched the light of the day and that discouraged me, like, maybe these papers you need someone to push you to push you, to take you somewhere but something is called that I only needed a computer and then I could take an idea and still create something that is useful.
Speaker 2:So that made me like full obsessed with code and then like, okay, hey, physics, I love you so much, but take a break with software. I only need a laptop and then I can take something and in internet and I can read something that it could impact the world.
Speaker 1:You know, like yeah yeah, and it's good you realize that. Uh, you know on your own, because also that's one thing that I believe that can change a lot of things for many people across the board. Uh, anything else I look at, there's so much time needed, resources as well, as you know. Education argument right, but for code you just need a laptop and internet, as you said, and just curiosity. If you're curious enough, you can get to build anything and learn anything, because now even most of the content is available online. But it's not as straightforward as people think it's not, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The only thing you need is just don't stop like every day, you just learn something new. Yeah, because they're going to be moment like don't feel like learning because be sometimes beginner is kinda hard and then you go into letting you see the smartest the word and then you go like, okay, no, no, not yet, yeah. So I think at the very beginning sometimes you need to intentionally know okay, interest in it. So if you're, intentionally interested in it. I think that's all you need. Learn something that doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Take your break get it works, yeah, yeah. And what was the biggest challenge that you face when you're?
Speaker 2:learning some of these. You know coding skills and and what you can build with code. Okay, yeah. So back in the days I had zero exposure to other ecosystem. You know, all I had is all I knew was me. There's my friend called Daniel, who taught me a lot of C++. Daniel Daniel who? Daniel Mkongo. Oh, Mkongo he's now a Mechatronics Bachelor in ROTC.
Speaker 2:But he taught me a lot of code like C++ and stuff like that, so I wasn't very much exposed to our ecosystem and also it limited what I can. I didn't have a good roadmap, so sometimes you just find yourself going to class z a to z. Sometimes it's like, okay, you don't get it because you're jumping to a very high concept. So I think, yeah, maybe a roadmap like kaleb, maybe learn from these to this would help very much. Yeah, uh, so that was like zero guidance. So, yeah, it was like a lot of triennale yeah, yeah, uh.
Speaker 1:So we would advise someone who is trying to run uh to learn this concept at this point.
Speaker 2:Uh, they just take some time and be patient with themselves yeah, but for now I think you don't, don't don't like get somebody at least to show you the roadmap, like not somebody? If like, okay, ask me, teach me. No, no, no, I won't teach you, but I'll give you a course and I'll give you, like resources to where to go, where to go if you stack. So I didn't have that somebody, so it was like more me um learning, the learning through the hardware, you know, yeah interesting.
Speaker 1:Um, and now that this learning was not, it was self-taught. Besides, you know doing mechatronic, but of course you could find some somewhere where these two are meeting. Uh, and I know with mechatronics, but of course you could find somewhere where these two are meeting, and I know with mechatronics. If it's a banded system, you need some PCB, some gadgets some semiconductor to program. Did you get these in plenty at the college?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in plenty. I think remember from first year I began implementing my first robot like hand robot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Grab something, and it was very like you know, a physical robot or just simulated robot.
Speaker 2:It was a hand robot, okay. But basically I didn't create the hands. Someone gave me the hands, I just programmed it. You just programmed it, okay.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah. Because I remember last time I saw, actually when we programmed a robot, it was on Java, you know, simulator, eclipse.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you could see, yeah, it's moved left right. So if you connect that and actually to, move that it's simulating what you could see.
Speaker 2:So I did a lot of those hardware stuff. Yeah. So in my first year to third year, I was still a believer of mechatronics.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So in my first year to third year I wasn't. I was still a believer of mechatronics, but I wasn't a believer of like it could, through the normal way of going to class and listening to lectures, that I can tend to where I want to go. I'm like, okay, let me just go through my self adventure. Let me go buy Arduino and programming Arduino and buy sensors and actuators. I, I, I began. I believed. As I began, I believed, okay, if I could teach myself how to control all this hardware, I could get somewhere with mechatronics. So I was still a believer.
Speaker 2:I stopped being a believer, maybe late in the Late in the years.
Speaker 1:So you're connecting robots, programming, and what is running through your mind, like, what will you do? Will you go and work for Toyota, or you know all these places? What was going through your mind, like, what will you do, will you go and work for toyota, or you know all these places?
Speaker 2:or what was going through your mind at this point, or you just wanted to graduate and you know, get your degree and no, like to be honestly, the the graduating thing became in the last year, so I wasn't very much like I was just thinking about the future or thinking, okay, I was always, I was all. I mean, I've always wanted to do something like this like program hands, uh, control sensors, creative lines, whatever, like that's what I was. No, no, no, no. Like future like two years to come no, no, no, just uh, what in front of me that was going through my mind living in the moment in the moment, yeah, but I was.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, if I could do this now, maybe in the coming days I could be somewhere very far. You know that that I had that's kind of concept in my mind, like maybe I could, you know, build an industry but you're already building an industry.
Speaker 1:You're sounding like someone who is struggling, but you're not man, so I mean not, not to the concept.
Speaker 2:I was thinking it was more on hardware.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and I I do, but you still have time, man, so where you have started is not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a fair point, it's a fair point, it's a fair point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are a head unit. I don't know if they know what you. They have achieved, what you have achieved so far. So you have time to do all these things and it's great. So, in that aspect, you graduate and do you pass your exams or do you exceed the expectations?
Speaker 2:So basically, in class I wasn't a very bad student.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're just average.
Speaker 2:No, I was the top student all the years.
Speaker 1:The three years.
Speaker 2:I was the best student first year, second year, last year and the best graduating student. Yeah, 4.8 out year and the best graduating student. Ah, nice yeah 4.8 out of 5 of the final GPA. So I was not very bad in class.
Speaker 1:I was actually good, yeah, yeah, okay now, because you said there's a time. You said you know, I want to concentrate.
Speaker 2:No. So if they're like Caleb, you always code. How do?
Speaker 1:you manage.
Speaker 2:How do you manage? Yeah, but for me, because I don't know, maybe my adventure was the physical programming hardware. Yeah, it made me even like, okay, if it's programming class, I get all the marks. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And do you think there are guys who are in school doing the wrong thing? It's not that they're not bright or they're not smart, it's just because they're doing what maybe they are not supposed to be doing. Maybe, yeah, maybe, because from what you have just said. It's just that you found what you can connect with and do. Yeah, that's why you found fun in it, because I know mechatronic is not that easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not, it's not straightforward as most of the things. Neither is it. You know, even literature for some other people is not that straightforward. You have to connect with it and you have to be like this is what I want to do, understand what I want to do with this and go ahead. So after school, what happens? Uh, do you, do you join our university? Or do you just say you know what? I have enough skills, let me go to da you mean after college? After college, yeah oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So after college, during college, I, yeah, okay. So after college, during college, I participated in a lot of competitions, like coming to DA exhibiting something and coming. So during college, I began exploring a bit. Okay, there's GDG, there is something called Python, tanzania. So I started to have a sense of community and I realized, okay, if you want community, go to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah so that was in my mind like in my very last day of graduating. Yeah, so I stayed one month at home in Bayer, but I'm like mom, if I want to make it Now, I'm thinking now in my head.
Speaker 2:I know like you, I'm thinking in my head like I don't want to be like the best result outcome for me, working as a mechanical engineer is being a repair guy yeah or maybe the best yeah yeah, maybe like not repair per se, but more for maintenance and a bit, a bit of like I found out in industries, like as a mechanical engineer in industries, because we had this science fair like this project to go to maybe Coca-Cola or Pepsi. So I don't know if it's quite true, but they don't trust locals to touch sensitive systems, so most of the time.
Speaker 2:They won't give you that aspect of actually having to innovate and create something, so you're mostly gonna go into uh okay, there's okay, let's, let's add more oil here. There's a bolt that is loose, okay let's really let's press this, so that doesn't.
Speaker 2:That doesn't like, that doesn't really trigger me. You know, what trigger me is me the aspect of creating something, you know. So I saw myself, okay, not really going to that career of uh, taking my cv and going to an interest, like, okay, he gave me this job so I, I say I'm, I was not um gonna apply any work of megatronics that was my liking to me. Yeah, so, even if um, yeah, so I I to now to now to take uh to pursue as a developer.
Speaker 2:He's that, you know, like he dies, he's ecosystem there is a community that is gdg yeah and I think there's also jobs, because every head is in that, you know, if you want jobs. So I'm like my mom, uh, I see one month and you know like he's staying at home. You're like, okay, if I'm, uh at home, the best could could do would be be a farmer. You know, yeah, go to go to farm, but I know I can't farm now. I don't want to be a burden at home. Let me just go to town and see if I can get opportunities in tech. Yeah, so.
Speaker 2:I stayed only one month and then I came to, came to town yeah, so do you have like family members here or just I? Have a sister, sister. But uh, I only stayed for a week and then I rented. Um, like I, I went to rent, yeah, yeah okay, so um, you come to da.
Speaker 1:At least you had come. You had come before for the competition and participation on different things but now you come to da, and here you're self-reliant. How did that work out? Did you get some side projects where you could now pay rent, or I was very naive so I was very naive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember just I was working on some final year project for some some, some college student from udome, yeah, and it paid me.
Speaker 2:Uh university of darsala or university, university of dodoma yeah, they paid me about 200K Tshiling. And then I'm like I want to go rent, yeah. And then going fighting houses and I realized renting is at least you need to have, I think around 300K, yeah. And I called my dad. I'm like my dad, please rent me, borrow me at least 300K. I need to rent a home. And then I was sending myself going forward yeah, I need to rent a home and then I'll also send myself going forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my very first rent, I rented from my dad. I mean, I borrowed my money from my dad about around 300K. Get a rent and then I have 200K to buy. Godoro the first mattress, the first mattress, and then some Pazia, and then I had only 20K on my, 20k on my on remaining to live in Nda. That was how I started my journey in Nda.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and here you are, and here you are. So if there's a guy who is still living, you know, with their mom or dad, it's, it's never that hard to take a risk, because otherwise you're going to always be afraid to jump right.
Speaker 2:I mean the risks are high. I didn't know the risks. I was very naive again, I thought I would make it.
Speaker 1:What happened?
Speaker 2:In early days I realized okay, this man cannot stay for two days or three days. And so I was not a debutable as a software developer, so I couldn't get jobs. I don't have any certification as a developer, I'm just an enthusiast. So back into. I don't have any certification as a developer, I'm just I can be enthusiastic, you know like yeah, so back into college I was doing some business mine, I was taking component from China.
Speaker 2:I was ordering on Alibaba and I'm selling device to my fellow student, so that was my I took. When I'm coming to DAA, I came with a component. Maybe I could do this selling of of component. I had a brand called Quant Electronics, so like selling electronics and stuff, yeah. So my very first, like 80 days, was me selling electronics, going on WhatsApp, going on Canva yeah, putting price.
Speaker 1:And how did you know how to order from China? From China? Yeah, I took a risk. I tried once, just went online.
Speaker 2:I tried once bought me money. I bought around one M during Corona. I'm like I'm going to order now Because if people don't order now, if Corona ends, I'll have the component. And then it actually worked. So all other sellers during now College of Open. After the lockdown Now College of Open after the lockdown Now College of Open. I was one of the few guys with the component from China already here. What?
Speaker 1:company was that.
Speaker 2:Electronics, maybe sensors, microcontrollers.
Speaker 1:So even you actually ordered things in line of your yeah, microtronics.
Speaker 2:So I was ordering stuff, and I was also building projects for other college students. Okay, get some money, oh yeah, microtronics. So I was ordering stuff and I was also building projects for other college students. Okay, get some money, oh yeah so you are the guy.
Speaker 1:It's called what the guy? Who? What do they call it? Gun for hire. So if someone is doing a project and things are all working out, kalebu is there to save the day. Yeah, call me and how much do you charge? 200,000?.
Speaker 2:No, 200 is too high. You know you're talking about university students Okay, yeah. It's around 100K. You know it's around there you know 100K so you buy from me component.
Speaker 1:And you build for it. Yeah, so yeah, I get. Yeah, this is in Dondoba, or Mosty, in my college.
Speaker 2:That is Mbea. So I'm like okay, let me print posters, get a designer, design me a poster, print posters.
Speaker 1:You're also a designer, a graphic designer.
Speaker 2:No, I had to pay a designer.
Speaker 1:Oh, to promote yourself.
Speaker 2:To promote the brand I was creating in college Quant Electronics and stuff like that, by that time you're not finished college, I'm not finished, I'm still in college, I'm in entrepreneurship selling stuff, and then when I came to DA, now I begin doing the same thing, because now I'm not it's very hard for me to get a developer job Because there's no reputation around me. So after I managed a bit and then my very first job, I think, was around, it was a developer work. It was around 30k Tshilling 30,000 shillings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my guy called you need to create an app and this is the features. There's a lot of features you know 30k, that's like 150 Kenya shillings. Yeah, yeah, that is like 1 dollar 50 cents something I'm not $1, no, no, I don't know, it was 30k. Tshiling oh, 30,000 okay so it's around maybe $10, okay, $15 yeah, $15.
Speaker 1:Oh there about yeah yeah, it's not still not.
Speaker 2:I was very happy this guy just didn't know how he helped me, because I was, I was almost broke, oh so I was like so this meant life and death for you.
Speaker 2:Life and death for you. So I called him in a day and like, here, done, and the guy paid me 30K. And then he put the work to the boss and the boss was like, okay, call this guy, maybe you can add some more features, yeah. And then I went to the boss and then we didn't talk about the pricing, about the work. I just do work, do work, do work. And then right after I'm like how much? And now I'm like, okay, now I got charge money. It's getting to be 30K, no more. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to the boss and I'm like, okay, give me 500k. Okay, the boss is like, okay, give me some time.
Speaker 1:I'll build this for you.
Speaker 2:And he called me and I can't. It sounded like too much money, but I'm like no, no, no, I'm like boss. You know, there's another client just nearby, who? Was bothering me, yeah, who was bothering me, and then I charged them around 300k for a day.
Speaker 1:I walked here for four days you should pay me 500k and that was my very first big money to be paid in town. Oh, yeah, yeah, and now you realize the uko mugini and then now I'm like okay, dad, here's your 300k. I'm in town now and here's 50,000 for you, for your trouble, for your trouble, yeah.
Speaker 2:For your trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ah, that's nice. And then did you now start getting big projects from that point, or?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not a big project, you know, but I studied a bit. I used to be on Upwork, I used to be on LinkedIn. Oh wow, yeah. So I never got a job on Upwork by that point. But on LinkedIn I put myself like machine learning engineer, whatever. Wow, yeah. So I never got a job on Upwork by that point. So I had like a but.
Speaker 2:I only put myself like machine learning, engineer, whatever, whatever, too many stuff. And so one of the one person is on a company in logistics. I went on my LinkedIn and then like, okay, DM me like Caleb, can you?
Speaker 1:come to my office that is in Tanzania or some other place In.
Speaker 2:Tanzania, in Tanz, and DM me like, caleb, can you come to the office, I want to talk to you? And I'm like, okay, this is it. So I went to the office and he's like, okay, I want you guys to build a CRM and stuff like that. So by that time I only knew Python, so I don't know any of font and stuff. I tried font and it didn't work. Yeah, I just don't know Python and I know backend. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But the guy wanted us to do like a CRM. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and how much was he hiring? Or just per project? It was per project. Okay, yeah, okay so.
Speaker 2:I came and I took my other guy who knew how to do content Okay.
Speaker 1:So now you're starting to know guys who are doing what you've connected with them from the community or Some of them from the community, some of them maybe when they reach out to me for a project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, back when I was in college. So, I'm like, okay, from the experience of this guy who we worked together on the CRM project was just a guy who reached out to me when I was in college Like Calum, I want this Now when I come to street. So I, but when?
Speaker 1:I came to street I'm like, okay, give me that, I'll figure it out, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But then I called he was good at Fontaine and then we were like, okay, can you do this Because we're all broke by the time you know, no one is rich, so okay. And then the guy's like, how much do you charge? Like okay, let's. That was like okay, now let's charge them by this. First of all, we wanted to charge them by hours, but it turned out to be very high money and unfreakable pricing.
Speaker 1:So now we're experimenting. It's like you are scaring them away, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now we begin experimenting. Now we're just missing number out of air. And see how they react, you know and they to see how they react you know, yeah, and then like five million, five million, we can do it. Yeah, so that's turned to be another bar on the street. So we worked on that project for like a lot of months. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was like five months. Now we could pay rent and then assure a couple of months survival in town. Yeah, yeah. And also build reputation. Now, now, once you work on a project. That's why developer it is if you work on a project, you work on a project, you're building your portfolio and now you're writing real things, not imaginary not imaginary stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now you go ahead. At what point do you or how many projects did it take for you to you know think about okay, I'm gonna start a company, right, and I'm gonna build a solution of X, whatever x is, and you tell us about the x factor of your solution okay, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So it was quite ill because I started working on 2020 and I started the company in december 2021. Just one year, just one year, you had done all those projects then a Because when I was working on that 5 million project, now I begin exploring open source. Yeah, so that's when you see, a lot of open source was me intentionally building them to get a portfolio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because projects are not coming as fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you want to. No, no, not as fast Because the CRM but you never work. So I wanted something that could expose me publicly so then I found open source to be quite the way and writing content, so I was writing content and also putting open source, putting open source and then open source. I began to get a lot of exposure. People were like, okay, a lot of exposure. People are like, okay, I can't have made my person and stuff like that, and then from there you might get one gig, two gig.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting, so 2021, you decide. Okay, you know what? I'm starting something.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What castigated that?
Speaker 2:At that point I did a lot of freelancing in Tanzania. I went on Upwork, I went from Upwork to a remote company, some remote company in Italy and then, during the work with the remote company, I quitted work and then not in a good team. I was very frustrated with working now.
Speaker 1:Was it a bit toxic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the boss was a bit toxic.
Speaker 1:You want to speak a bit about it, or?
Speaker 2:no, no, but in the end, of the day. I was very sick, I had somebody, they died and then I went to, so I missed like two days in a walk and the boy was like no serious so I'm like okay, I was very sick, I'm suffering, like I was like like a lot of ulcer, and then like, yeah, so he's, and he's like he doesn't care about that.
Speaker 1:He cares about what you do.
Speaker 2:I'm just a number. You know like yeah, yeah, so that that really, I'm like, okay, if we, if I it, and then I was getting paid 6 million a month. It was 2.9k USD A month. And then I'm like I'm quitting this work, what I'm gonna do, yeah, I mean, but you know, working there, getting 6 million, it made me okay, I'm valuable. Now I can get paid for 6 million in a month, so I'm valuable. What can I do now To get the 6 in a month? So I'm valuable? What can I do now to get the 6 million a month if not getting paid? So a lot of idea. But again, the idea of company came about after quitting. The idea of company came even before working in a remote company, but it wasn't serious. Now, after quitting, what do I do? I begin hitting freelancing, like Upwork. I made a bit of money on Upwork, but I'm like, okay, I don't want to do Upwork, I don't want to do another job. Let me think of a company. And again.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it takes to build a company. I'm just a developer. I'm thinking now, okay, let me do it. The most comfortable way for me now, okay, is not freelancing, not going to another job. Yeah, so even maybe the emotional relation wasn't that well because I didn't, I didn't want, don't talk to me about job again, don't talk to me yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's all like now, okay, let me set a company. And then I remember when I was in college, I begin exploring on AI stuff and then I wanted, okay, the company should be around AI, you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, so in a company, oh yeah so you're already fascinated with AI and what you can do yes how do come about the solution that you offer? Because the solution, the portfolio solution that you offer, even I think by that, if you started in 2001, no, most people had started now seeing the potential in boats, in translation. You know, these are actually right now most companies are looking at so it wasn't very straight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in the beginning it wasn't very straight, yeah, so in the beginning, uh like, okay, I'll find a solution, and if you want anything, yeah, just do it, you know very general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more ifs statements and then it's okay, we gotta be specific. And then, uh, so when I was in college, I did something called ask iris. So ask iris was something that you could text on sms and it could reply you back. So it was like going to using Wikipedia API fetching me feedback. So that was my very first kind of chatbot thing to build when I was in college. And then that idea was held somewhere in my brain and my brain was like okay, what are you wondering? Yeah, it is, I am here. This is the chatbot. Yeah and then, okay, okay, let's do chatbot.
Speaker 2:So and then, okay, okay, let's do chatbot so it wasn't very like specifically. Okay, like, okay, let's think whatever my previous exposure, like I began to be really fascinated with sports, and it all traces back to my first inspiration of AI it was a movie Ex Machina and then it's kind of like some sort of a humanoid robot that can talk to.
Speaker 2:So that kind of software that can talk to you and reply back was sounded very interesting to me. And then, uh, doing a project around it, um, and then coming to street, is still that? Yes, it's somewhere in your brain. Okay, you gotta be chat about something like that yeah yeah, and then and then.
Speaker 2:now that's how it is, and then I'm going forward. There's a lot of influence, you know, like there's not like one influence that you can do chat, but yeah, so yeah, I remember one of the inspiration I want to want at one around one point was when I was doing open source. I was exploring around NLP in African languages. I went to NLP, nltk it's one of the popular packages in NLP.
Speaker 2:And I'm looking around, okay, how do I do in Swahili? And I found out, okay, there's no support, it's empty, not even stop words. I'm like, okay, shit, it can be real. So I opened an issue, okay, let me contribute something to this. But that triggered me to know, like, okay, there's no, there's a huge gap in NLP tools for African languages, because Tanzania is a like Swahili is a huge language, like it's 100 million speakers, but not even national language 100 million speakers in East Africa, but why there's no tools?
Speaker 2:So I begin to see like a huge gap around this area and I'm like, okay, I speak Swahili, I'm a developer and I know a bit of AI. Why not me try to do something around this area? And then that really matched with the chatbot idea, because to be chatbot, you need to be good at NLP in Swahili and African languages. And then, yeah, so it was like okay, different idea coming to each other. And okay, we know, I know you, I know you and then now let's do something together.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah and uh, you started this all alone and then, over time, you got some partners.
Speaker 2:It was like three people in the beginning, and then from day zero, yeah, and then I came to one oh, the other guys quit along the way, or? A lot happened, oh yeah, so, but at the end of the day, um yeah, I remained alone.
Speaker 1:Now is it the time that you're rebuilding the team, or you started rebuilding the team now, after these guys left the company?
Speaker 2:There was no team. The only team of these three guys are the three, but I won't talk much on the details. I'll be there for the details, but what happened basically is two other guys ended up leaving the details. I won't be there on the details, but what happened basically is two other guys ended up leaving the company, you know.
Speaker 1:But not in a bad way. I mean. Or people decided to. I mean, I can tell.
Speaker 2:But eventually, for me it was very hard because I wanted to burn my bridges, you know Like. I left work. So this was it for you, this was it for me, but these other guys had option to go and get employed, which you are not happy with because you know, yeah, not important, because it was just more of commitment, because, uh, for me I've got to commit 100 to this, because this is this is it.
Speaker 1:This is it. There's nothing else.
Speaker 2:There's nothing else I do. If I, I'm gonna make it or maybe go back again to looking for a job so it ended up then, after they left, and then I'm like, okay, one of them I very quickly went to hire was okay, let me get a market. So, yeah, I get okay. Open an Instagram account, open Twitter, facebook you know, take it, you know, take it, you know, take it, and then start such marketing. Ai solution compensation AI no product.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so just marketing to see how the market reacts to these yeah, how market says, and then yeah, oh, you're really smart. No, I wasn't. If you're doing marketing to test the market about something that actually Because by then I don't think AI was really that crazy man and you see, two years down the line, you have already covered ground. It was really smart as much as it doesn't look like AI, not that biased. And then did people start now inquiring or asking you what is this? How long did it take?
Speaker 2:It took quite a while A whole year, six months, three months. Maybe something like six months. So six months, that's when I got my first project as a company.
Speaker 1:But there's nothing in this, just marketing.
Speaker 2:So there was marketing and then around three months I began getting a developer. Maybe I've been now designing the system. So the very first edition of Sarovi never shipped to life, so there was a first version, there was a home page.
Speaker 1:The dashboard was always in development yeah, but to believe this thing will work. And these six months, how are you surviving? Are you paying this marketer?
Speaker 2:So remember when I was writing content. Oh, you got paid for that it took me like six months to get my first job as a writer. So I got approached by a company like Rocket, Like okay, we're going to pay you $350.
Speaker 1:Well, how did you go?
Speaker 2:I'm like dude, this is like Nani, this is something I get suddenly, you know, in Tanzania.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in Tanzania, you know.
Speaker 2:So I begin and then I then go to Draftdev. They pay you $3.20 per article. Yeah, so it was quite good for me. I begin, okay, using this money and my saving money from suddenly working to kind of finance developer, because I'm not a fondant, no, so I'm about to design the UI and then get a developer to design some few pages. First of all, landing page Get a landing page live hype on Twitter like oh, building in public, Sort of coming in the next week and then yeah never shipping for up to six months, yeah, never, nothing's functional yeah, yeah, wow, that's.
Speaker 1:That's kind of interesting because if I think about it already, I see, uh, that you believed so much in this idea to an extent that you believe this is gonna work after all. Um, yeah, so after six months you get your first customer. Are they willing to pay up front or are they willing to pay after they see the project?
Speaker 2:um. The first client was not a chatbot guy, so it was not a chatbot project yeah it was more of like aai b2b consultation yeah so I remember going there to Tamasha, which is another one that's happening this year, the last two years at Tamasha. So I went there and I found someone speaking about AI. I'm like I'm going to approach the guy and pitch myself and then I'm like, okay, you know I'm the best. If you want AI solution, go no further.
Speaker 1:He's the guy. He's your guy.
Speaker 2:And he's like okay, you see that lady, Go talk to her.
Speaker 1:So the marketer was a lady.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. So I approached the guy who is the head of the company. They were also offering AI solution. So I was preaching if they could give me a gig, maybe a subcontract to work on. And then he's like, okay, you see that lady, another tech person now from the company, I talked to that and then he's going to lead you out. He will tell if you're good or not. Back then I had a lot of problems. I created my own language in Swahili, but not in language by per se. But if someone look at it like, okay, this guy built a language and this guy did you, did you pipe aside? So they look at my portfolio on open source and like, okay, he's quite good.
Speaker 2:yeah, we can give him a job yeah so he's like, okay, there's a project coming up.
Speaker 2:It was december coming up in january, come to our offices and give you a job. So I went on january and then, okay, here's a job, yeah. So I didn't know, but I need to come on up front or not. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it and I'm watching a party, uh-huh, yeah. So I remember, not, because to pay, I should you $30 per hour. Yeah. So, and then this, this client, and then I begin charging them on the same right. Yeah, it quite paid, it might sustain me. I think for the, for the whole last year even this year okay, that plant okay 22.
Speaker 2:It sustained me I think the whole last year. It was one main plant. That's glad I got at the data, the data machine okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So here is a community paying back over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now, now it's not now, okay, it it's like okay, so before getting a job as a company. I didn't have the decision done, so it was just a briefcase company. Yeah, the company was like okay, you need to give me your company certification get a contract. And then I'll go register and stuff like that, no-transcript, now getting a job and learning about charging how much do you charge? And also maybe get some more personal team, because now if you get paid as a company it's a bit some money. And then okay.
Speaker 1:Do you have an accountant? Do you have a dev there? No, not an accountant. Accountant not yet, not yet, so I got a very old.
Speaker 2:I got a dev advocate early. I opened a blog where a blog goes, and I begin writing blogs on AI.
Speaker 1:As an advocate.
Speaker 2:As an advocate, like writing content, so in content I market it for developers, trying to build myself a reputation before product like is out yet building uh like some authority and reputation around ai. So that was I've been doing so my very first one of my very first the marketer and then the advocate. Yeah, um, the fountain was not very hard, it was more like gigs, and then I got to some uh some, to some content, to join in a team.
Speaker 1:And you're paying them using the project and the gigs that you're doing on the side.
Speaker 2:Not on the side now through this company and does the rates change?
Speaker 1:Did they change when you registered the company?
Speaker 2:No, no, they didn't, but it's just like okay, it was enough, you know, to sustain yeah.
Speaker 1:I've not that enough, okay, yeah so now, here you have a company, at least it's registered. Yeah, you have some employees, correct, you're paying them, you know? Whatever the amount you know was this time, now you started developing Sarufi seriously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was talking. The aim of the content now is not to consult, it's to build Sarufi.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So the Sarufi began earlier on. But another developer left, so the new developer came keep on building this new Sarufi. So, it was very odd, because we're building the UI with no architecture in mind. It's just okay, let's do this.
Speaker 3:And then we're thinking of UI with no architecture in mind.
Speaker 2:It's just okay, let's do this, and then we're thinking we're building the ship on the way and then we don't know what we're doing, we don't have like a big picture in mind of what we're building. So that's how we started building Sarufi. It was okay, gotta do this. We the Sarufi, the first version of Sarufi, yeah, but it never turned the light of the day for the Sarufi.
Speaker 1:So the version do you have. Which version do you have right now?
Speaker 2:I mean it's the other version.
Speaker 1:The original version or.
Speaker 2:No, no, the original version never. So, as I say, initially we didn't know what we were doing it. Initially, we know what we're doing. It was a try and error. And also, if you tell me, caleb, take a pen, draw me, what is it? What is it you're building here? They hold the whole architecture. I wouldn't have done it, you know. Yeah, it was more like, okay, we're gonna figure it out. You could agree. Yes, let's have a good UI. Yeah, look at other platform. Okay, this, these people have this dashboard, also have this. And if you do it, you're going to post on Twitter, building in public.
Speaker 1:So there are two versions that never saw the light of the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first initial version I mean the first version continued to be developed again.
Speaker 1:Oh, by a new dev.
Speaker 2:By a new dev Still building it, you know, and sharing on Twitter building in public.
Speaker 1:Building in public. That's a tagline nowadays. Build in public. And then from that, now is it like what is this building in public? Because I've seen a couple of devs nowadays saying you know, I'm a believer of building in public.
Speaker 2:It's like maybe you can get early users early because people are saying okay, this guy. Day one, there was only CSS on the first page. Now the whole platform you're like but do they?
Speaker 1:does it work like that, or are you building hype?
Speaker 2:it's building hype you know, so when you, when you purchase it done, you have some already. You know, yeah, not like okay, here is a surprise. So I was a believer first, but it haunted me. It haunted me because I remember in very January I'm like, okay, ah, almost there. And then it's June, there's nothing out there. So, some people give me a call. You know, Kale, are you the creator of Sarufi? Like, okay, I logged in the. Are you the creator of?
Speaker 1:Sarufi. Okay, I logged in the log page is not working.
Speaker 2:Something's not working. So people are now kind of like okay, some people are working what you guys are building.
Speaker 1:You know you have given me another perspective of Sarufi that I didn't know. It seems like you built out of pressure, that this actually has to be real. This actually has to be working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but.
Speaker 1:Otherwise your reputation is online here.
Speaker 2:But that thing never shipped. So the other Sanofi that came to public it was not under pressure. Okay. Yeah, so I'm like okay, I'm okay now.
Speaker 1:How did you like discontinue the one that never shipped?
Speaker 2:I mean it happened, the front-end developer left and then I mean it's a point, now there was no quality. Now, whatever I'm building, okay I'm like. Okay, I don't know what I'm building. It's just a point where now I came to realize okay, what am I doing? I have no idea yet to know what I'm doing. So, I, instead of starting from front-end, we start. We need study from a back-end. Let's be the, the framework of the chat, what itself?
Speaker 1:how it's going to work.
Speaker 2:Maybe the flawless day in the floor, this is I in everything first, and then we can have a phone in as a body to embody that, that texture of them, of the board. So in a decade, let's stop this, let's start building the CLI up. So, and then it became like that. I remember doing the very first vision of Sarufin, I think in a day, yeah, just a day. Just imagine how much time I saved.
Speaker 2:It took six months to push a platform, but never, shipped, but the very first vision, which is an MVP that could be used in a day. It had no UI.
Speaker 1:So the hard lesson that you learned from this experience is that you can all build a product from the marketing perspective before having the product itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's hard and it's painful and it's costly, and then you try to do every feature.
Speaker 1:You know, painful and it's costly, and then you try to do every feature. You know you try to build the best. And is it building or just talking about it, because it sounds like if it's not working there's nothing yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean, you saw this. It sounds productive because you're gonna build some pages and then you're gonna show on twitter. Okay, it's a chat, but here's the button and you can click it. It sounds. It sounds productive, but it's not yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then what I realized? Okay, you can build the very simplest division. If you're building something, think about what is the simplest representation of what you're building.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then let people use get the feedback. Yeah, build that first yeah.
Speaker 2:Stop about any complex feature, because you need that credit first. What is it I'm building? And then those features can come later, so we begin with that now during the. I begin building the very first version of sarufi. Yeah, no, ui. Yeah, just a cli. Yeah, uh, and the docs like a opening, open api docs. Yeah, open api docs, like okay, you have a post you can click and then, uh, and then I build a ck, and then it was like that sharing in public sarufi no, I didn't share in public which year?
Speaker 1:this year or last year last?
Speaker 2:year, last year around August and so we did a very first version of Sarufi, but I never shared in public and I'm like, okay, how do we put this to public? I put it private. I'm inviting people okay, come and preview in private, this is my invention. How do we put this to public? I put it private. I'm inviting people okay, come into preview in private. This is my invention. But and then I'm like okay, maybe now from that Vestivision we've been building demos now trying to pitch to companies. Let's go to Voda and pitch this demo with the engine of Sarufi now.
Speaker 2:Okay, we can now sell it to companies and then use our engine, but it never. But we never sold anything, you know. So I'm like maybe let's just open source this. Let's just make it not open source but make it open for anyone to use it. We're afraid because there's a company offering chatbot services and we're like, okay, ours got API. If you give them API they can play around with it and then use it, figure it out, our invention, but eventually because there was no any traction you gave up keeping it private.
Speaker 2:Keeping it private, it was not helping it was not helping, there was no growth. It was not like okay, using it for marketing, like the demo. So what we end up? Okay, making it API public and endpoint public and allowing people to try it out. Okay, here's Sarufi. Yeah, and then an intern came, a front-end intern. He helped us build the first version of Preground. So Preground came before Dashboard. So Preground was like okay, if you develop a blog using CLI and Yamo was using Yamo or JSON as a flow control, you can test it on Preground. Yeah. So no Dashboard yet, but those program yet very simple. So beginning marketing, it is a roofing launch, yeah launching on what's up in Twitter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it big, did you?
Speaker 2:I'm you launch it or just sharing on to hyping on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, like I back in the now, I've been experimenting viral, viral Twitter tweeting like a lot. Yeah, most of the people were trying the bot we made as a sample demo, but the traction in development wasn't very good because, again, people need to now use Anderson the floor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, use Yamo to build the floor and then, yeah, it was. It was not that, um, there were some people trying out from, but we saw that the user experience of using YAML and JSON was good that it helped. It wasn't good to help people to do chatbots and stuff like that. So yeah, but we didn't have the money now to finance Build the dashboard.
Speaker 2:No, no, build the dashboard for people to easily build now bots. So because it's still like marketing, we're doing a bit, but no sponsor, just organic. Yeah, so marketing is a fair point. Also, no money to do marketing and no money to finance dashboard development. So even the UI. You're seeing now it wasn't easy.
Speaker 1:So when did you get your first serious client after this version?
Speaker 2:Ah, serious client after this version. Serious client. It was around, I think, during Sahara Spark, maybe around November.
Speaker 1:So you got them through Sahara Spark.
Speaker 2:Sahara, spark Sahara.
Speaker 1:Spark yeah, which is also a community engagement.
Speaker 2:It is a conference. It's a tech conference in TZ, One of the biggest in TZ. Yeah, so it's combined of companies tech. It is a tech conference. It is one of the biggest in the entities. Yeah, so it's combining our companies, uh, foreigners investors. Yeah, yeah, so one of the guy I I once interned in his company yeah, uh, I went there like okay, I'm not doing a chat bot, um, yeah, so so it it just happened that you can come to my office and then I went to the office and he's like okay, um, so this was a big client, but I didn't get the money.
Speaker 2:Hear me out, I wouldn't mention the company name for the sake of okay, yeah but he's, he's a very big company, you know, like like B company yeah yeah, he's like okay, um, how much do you charge? Okay, this is a big company, it's a big company, let's charge them 15K USD.
Speaker 2:And then we go there. I'm like okay, I'm going to develop you a bot for WhatsApp for 15K USD, which is around 30 million, you know. And then he was like you know, kaleb, I get it's fair, but this is too high. We have another vendor. He's offering us for 5K. And you're like oh, you know, 5k is 12 million, we can also do for this, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we accepted the offer Now this.
Speaker 2:remember from before that job. Most of the work was not chatbot, it was B2B data consultation. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was more like on big data and not just ai stuff but not chatbots yeah so this was one of the very first chat. Like client and bow, we we get want a chatbot and we are going to use our chatbot platform yeah to you, to, to uh, to deploy for them yeah yeah, output dashboard. We have no dashboard, so we Yammer and stuff to work for them. Yeah, yeah. And then the client said okay, caleb, how would I change the stuff in the board if I want to change this word? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I need a dashboard. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I knew a couple of my friends who are very good at UI. Yeah, okay, and they're also opening their own company and they like wants to approach me. If you have a geeks, just let us know just know whatever, yeah, and then, um, I didn't have the money, but I know, okay, if I'm gonna pay 10 million, I'm in, just also this UI. So I gave my friend a UI. Uh like, implement me in this UI.
Speaker 2:I needed this for this client project yeah um, but something happened in the middle of the project. Something happened and then the boss was out of it. I don't know, but the boss was kind of. Something happened which the project froze.
Speaker 1:So you didn't get paid. We had two pending invoices.
Speaker 2:And then remember I had another team to do the UI Not paid, we're not paid. The ui yeah, not paid, we're not paid, the team is not paid. All our expectation is like, okay, this december gonna be awesome. Now yeah, big money yeah coming in, yeah, coming in, and then it's not coming through yeah yeah, do people give up on you or?
Speaker 2:I want to give up. Yeah, I remember losing one of my very key person, because after that we went on holiday and then after that I'm coming. I'm just finishing my holiday, I'm still living. There's a nation later. Yeah, like Kaleo boy, you know he's crazy man.
Speaker 1:My holiday did not turn out really well, because it never came through.
Speaker 2:Yeah because I was struggling with money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone has not paid it for months and they need to pay rent. They have responsibilities.
Speaker 2:You kind of understand okay, you know you got to find money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so did you get paid finally, or?
Speaker 2:I wasn't, but something good happened out of it. Okay. The UI that we were doing for a client turned out to be the main sort of dashboard you're seeing now. So this project flopped so project flopped. But I'm like, okay, what if we could make this dashboard we're building for a client to edit?
Speaker 2:the flow could be our own dashboard now for people to do their thing and then I'm like okay, I begin approaching the team can you guys add this few more features? Can you add a sign up page? Because we're building it for one client but we don't need it for signups or nini, crazy stuff. So we begin like, okay, can we make a? Can we make it, uh, in a way that people could sign up?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, and now we have sarufi version yeah, so sarufi, version one, it comes a lot of blessing, you know. Yeah, so right then, uh, my, it was tough. Uh, because, remember, my big plan is the only one. They want to go from the tamasha in there because they're also doing consultation. Another company, yeah, so it became the main subcontractor on the main of the project. But they vary sometimes they come and then they don't come, so you're depending on one big client to do all your financing. Yeah, yeah, so and um, whatever.
Speaker 1:Did you get more clients? Or? Or, at this point, just now, you, you, you've perfected the dashboard.
Speaker 2:It was, it was more. It was more like finding other work apart from chatbot, uh, by the company to work on so that we can pay, we can, we can operate yeah yeah. So me getting other clients, not not big per se, but my I didn't want to go much on consultation, I wanted okay on the product. So it's more okay finding whatever can get gigs around that you can can help sustain. At some point it was so hard I got back on upwork oh on a day.
Speaker 2:It was so hard, my rent was due and then I'm like, okay, yeah, I need some gigs yeah I need some gigs, yeah, yeah. But then and then I begin, uh, I begin, okay, doing whatever, giving some, even consultation work, maybe building ai, work for some other people yeah to get some money yeah to pay the team that was viewing the dashboard now. Yeah. So that we can launch dashboard. Yeah. As a product. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this idea was not. It was not natural, it was not planned, it was accident of us not getting paid from the client and the work being done. Yeah. Like okay, we've got to do something because you need to pay these people. They already did the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah to you know they have responsibilities.
Speaker 2:after the launch, it went well yeah, and something good out of the launch. We got our first enjoy investor oh yes so, after the launch of the of the of the surfer dashboard and then, uh, so my launch happened on whatsapp oh, okay, yeah first day no twitter only what's up, yeah so I mean a lot of developer community, developer groups. Yeah, all I did was spamming people.
Speaker 2:Spamming people yeah, and it paid off yeah, there's some few users and what's one? One of the person who shared on whatsapp, one of his contact person was an angel investor oh, wow.
Speaker 3:And he was like okay, link me to the guy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I remember we had like a like a 30 minutes call with the guy like, okay, come to Cape Town. Yeah, here's the ticket oh nice yeah, then all I know, I'm in Cape Town one week and then, and then after one week and no pitching okay just talk and okay, what do you do?
Speaker 2:we're gonna give you in a community, gonna tell to use a dashboard to build a boat, and then after okay, I want to be your first investor. Here's the teams, here's the first months of investment. So right now, that's when I at least you are stable enough to build. Stable enough, and that's when I would say okay, let's focus on the product, because now you're not worried about the salary.
Speaker 3:Salary, yeah, Because now you're not worried about the salary rent, getting gigs out of work to work on a product.
Speaker 2:So that removes all the destruction and the worrisome, because the growth of the project wasn't very much good in the first year because it was a lot of destruction. To work on a project is an expense and also there's no credit. So, right now. We had a bit of credit of what we want the floor, the dashboard was very connecting. The team did a good, nice work on the dashboard.
Speaker 1:So you know now working on a serious project building communities and it is now there is something exciting about your journey, kalebu, and one of those things that you have always believed in the community, by participating in it, by always coming back and giving value to it, even believing that if you share with your community, they're going to actually use your product and, ideally, you'll get an investment in it. So, for you, community is like everything. Yeah, it's everything. And this, actually, I met you through our community. Correct.
Speaker 1:And one thing that made me notice you is that even after we left, I saw you engaging the guys trying to help, trying to see what you can do. What is that drive? Why is that drive for you?
Speaker 2:I mean I think my early days coming out of Mbeya. I'm a lonely wolf there, Only a couple of few friends, less exposure. Coming down to that and then seeing all these communities and that's where I saw the spirit of community. Going to Flata for food.
Speaker 1:So the first catch gate of any community is food. It's food. You're broke and you don't have.
Speaker 2:So the first catch get of any community is food. It's food you know like, yeah, you're broke, you don't have money to buy food. There's good food at communities event free food. You're leaning frata, so you do. I really like the community. You know getting there, knowing other people doing different stuff. Even my first AI, like kind of mentor, was through community. I remember going to Boonie. Boonie is a very place for me.
Speaker 2:That's where most of my stuff began from. Maybe Flask or whatever, AI, whatever. All the stuff came from Boonie. Because I'm going there. I'm like, okay, I love AI, I'm looking for guys who do AI here. Okay, you see some guy there, yeah, go talk to him. And you talk to him like, okay, he's doing JavaScript and talking to something like Java. He's like, hey, play this music using voice and the AI is listening. It's all fascinating, you know, like. And it's also community. You come, you see all this GDG. So I was actually a believer of community and then, through community, that's where I met my tribe, Because my tribe was not Colleges, most people Mechatron and stuff. So I lied to the community. That's where I find myself at peace, because I like meeting new people who are actually doing different stuff learning from them.
Speaker 1:So fast forward. There's this project that you are coming to do with Mozilla, and it actually touches on your vision and how you actually to start building, which is to just help people who are likely reachable because of language barrier and how they can interact with the different aspect of technology through voice right. It's called mozilla connected voice right and again, you volunteer to become a trainer, right? Um, please speak a bit about it and why it's important that people should come on Friday, saturday, join the competition, but, of course, I'll add a few details on that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, as I spoke previously, if you come to NLP space as a developer, the tools for African languages are very non-existent yeah. Yeah. And then you don't expect a miracle or somebody to come and say hey, here are the tools. Yeah. So I think, as African, we have responsibility. Yeah. Um to to build these tools.
Speaker 1:True, true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I think uh, that's what amazing Mozilla. I've been doing it like an amazing walk. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So on local language like Swahili, luganda and stuff like that, to help now give developers the ability to use this data to create AI models out of it In this week's hackathon. It's very interesting because we're going to be touching Swahili. The hackathon is about now. Okay, how can we build something for ourselves Using data collected from our locals? Because it was using volunteers coming together. I happened to participate in one of the voice contributions run by Catherine. I was there just looking at people doing Mozilla and Common Voice. I think this week is a chance for you now to come and be a part now, not on contributing, but on building now AI that can can convert speech into text. Yeah, so I think it's quite. It's quite interesting. And then it's quite.
Speaker 2:Also, it's good because, first of all, you're building yourself like a career in AI. Second, you're building yourself a career in AI. Syscon is impactful because you're doing something for local. You're doing something for Swahili, so it's something that you should be proud of if you come and attend and build something that is helping us put our local language on a map and in a space where, 100 years to come, as I always say this Gen Z maybe won't know analog life. They're going to be digital, you know.
Speaker 2:All these voices, but if we don't find a way for us to represent these languages, in the digital space, our cultures will be like you know not as we know it we'll not be as we know it. We'll be a rust so we need to put these languages in a digital space and then as a developer now.
Speaker 2:It's your chance now to do one of this impactful work of building these models around Swahili, yeah, and then yeah, so it's a competition. There's money, true, true, yeah, but at the same time, you don't have to be like a developer, like do a voice before, because even if you are, even if you, like, have interest, we're going to be using some of the tools that you can easily catch up after a couple of training. Yeah, so I think, as long as you're a developer, you feel free to come and check them out, check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's a must attend because it's really happening, it's really happening and there's good food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's good food for those who they call themselves team food team chakula.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's really happened. It's really happened Something like this is very, it's very, it's very.
Speaker 1:You said it happened here last year, right, no? No.
Speaker 2:No, I mean doing something like like creating voice, like just more on contribution of the previous event, mozilla event I mean I've been participating is more. Okay, yeah, now let's contribute the voice, yeah in this voice.
Speaker 1:Uh, some ai people gonna be using to now it's here, now it's here, now it's local here. Now people have a chance to yeah, okay, no, I mean, uh, we have a top price of a thousand dollars, uh, second price at around five thousand five hundred dollars, and then that price two thousand dollars, and, as I keep insist, but it's not about the money, because if you ask me that's, you know, pocket change, but it's in what you build, it's in the solution itself. And if you're listening, or if you ever hear this and there's a hackathon happening and you're an engineer, what is solved? Not just a beginner you're trying to learn, but someone who is just castigated by building solutions always participate. Um, and one thing I've seen consistently about akathon is that, uh, sometime when you collaborate with other people, you realize, oh, maybe I didn't know this, maybe I've learned this, maybe I can build using this best practice, and so and so forth, and over time, those people become really, really good at what they do and grow. So, everyone listening, please, you're welcome, come, let's build. And there are so many other opportunities underlying opportunities on this hackathon that I'm going to announce on that, because also Africa's Talking. We run monthly hackathons and this is going to get exciting, especially in 2024, because there are a couple of projects that we are launching around that line. Yeah, I mean come, come, let's have a good day. We'll be here for the next two weeks and it's gonna be fun, man. We brought some of the best engineers in in the world to teach you, you know, how to deal with data, and to come is. I think Kalebu had an exclusive meeting with some of these engineers in Nairobi at our Africa Stalking Summit, but they're here in town, so don't miss out.
Speaker 1:Something else really important that I would like to talk about is how we view Africa, and I think you have touched on it. What solutions can we create that we own? Because, guys, no one is going to come here and create your solution, and you have seen it again and again. So that opportunity for our bright mind to come and see what do we build Even the guys in the industry already, because sometimes we might build and up to three customers and think we have made it, but imagine solutions that we use across the globe. That's the level that you need to be thinking about and that's why, actually, I do what I do, because that actually bothers me a lot thinking of the way we can change africa in our lifetime and and beyond uh, yeah I don't know what's your parting shot or uh, what?
Speaker 1:what should people look out for in this hackathon and even the Tanzania tech ecosystem, because since I was here last year, it's amazing, man. I see a lot of things happening. You guys won TADA hackathon, which is a global hackathon through Africa's talking hackathon, and that's also some money coming in the ecosystem there. I've seen some of your engineers get good jobs around and even abroad, so what's popping man?
Speaker 2:I think it's getting quite vibrant now. At some moment back before Corona the community was very vibrant, and then after Corona it kind of slipped, and then right now, 80 communities this community kind of popping up, and during the TED talk, there were like four events happening in the same day, so that's quite interesting because it's showing like the community is kind of growing and people are getting really interested in this tech and I think for all those people, maybe people who are interested in this tech, I think this one is a must attend, because AI is a blockchain You'd be like okay, last year was like was blockchain.
Speaker 1:It was Bitcoin. This year is AI.
Speaker 2:And one of the interesting things we could be doing is doing something around voice Not people touch. Something that's quite easier to do around text chatbot, but doing it on voice is another level.
Speaker 1:Because imagine people who, even people who don't know how to write, they can't speak right, and I hear people speaking good Swahili. Actually, before this podcast, just immediately before this podcast, I was telling Kalebwe and another and our manager that spoken Swahili and written Swahili are two different things. But you see, everyone can speak because if you hear something, you can actually comprehend and speak it and actually both people are good right. So it's a game changer, if you ask me. And also something else to mention is that Africa's Talking offers voice API, and this is from Telcos. And imagine if you combine Mozilla voice connect plus connected voices plus now the Africa's Talking voice API, it's going to be crazy you're calling an AI like hi call center is going to change.
Speaker 2:It's going to be in your.
Speaker 1:It's crazy that you're calling an AI like Oi, hi Call center is going to change. It's going to be in your here. There are like 200,000 languages, right, different dialects in Tanzania, two 200 dialects Besides Swahili. There are so many other languages.
Speaker 2:I don't know the number.
Speaker 1:It's many of them Because I assume if there are 200 tribes, there must be like 200.
Speaker 1:Around 100 tribes. I think that's a lot, because in Kenya it's like 42. In some other places you find there's many. So Africa is endowed with different cultures, different dialects and, I think, with Mozilla. Why we're interested in working with them and collaborating on this project is the fact that this actually touches on every African African right. Yeah, so it's really exciting. Guys, come, let's build together, let's start this, and it's running between this Friday until December 3rd around there. So come and be with us, see how things are built, train your models and win. There are two prizes, by the way. There's Akadon 1 and Akadon 2. So if you win Akadon 1 as a top prize and Akadon 2 top prize, that's $2,000.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of money.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of money, man, and Christmas is coming, you know. Something else worth mentioning is that please join the community. So you can find the community at communityafricastalkingcom slash no. Communitydelayrancom slash africastalking. You'll find that event as the second published event. Dot com slash no community. Dot delirium. Dot com slash Africa's Talking. You'll find that event as the second published event. Join, register, get your ticket, be ready and join us. So, kaleb, give us a parting shot. Man, like, what do you wanna, guys to remember you for? Before before we record another podcast.
Speaker 2:You're too young let me just show up. I think it's quite interesting because doing this on Swahili, it shows the possibility of going to all the other dialects of languages, because if we can do this for one language, we can replicate it across other languages and it gives really hope of putting our language on a map, our culture. It's quite interesting because I think the quote of everyone can speak is quite true, because not everybody can write, not everybody is literate.
Speaker 2:So all these people sometimes are excluded from the system. Click there and then you're going to go navigation and then they can't read. But if somebody can call and talk to an AI, and you're one person who is going to now enable that kind of possibility. I think it's quite interesting. And then you got to show up. You know it's a game changer.
Speaker 1:So I normally believe in two things one is that where people gather, always there's a solution, and two is that in that solution, actually you need people to use it. So it's a give and take. So anyone who really want to win this, think about the solution that actually impacts your village Not even in Da, it's a bit mixed up with everything, but in your village at least, you know, maybe my dad or my uncle or whoever want to top up. How is that experience? How can I change that experience? Also, think about, maybe you know, when they go to buy something. How is that experience? Or when they want to call customer care at Vodacom or uh, which other telco do you have there? Tigo, tigo, the telco do you?
Speaker 1:have a tigo or or hotel, right. How is that experience? And with that now you can be able to solve for the people? Uh, yeah, so, without further ado, this was africa's talking ritual podcasts, in collaboration with impact masters and our guests. And our guest was one and only Kalebu Jordan. Until next time, it's yours, michael Kemadi or MK, if you want. Thank you.
