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Impact Masters Podcast
#48 Alfred Ongere Part 1 Bridging Telecom and AI: Lessons Learned in Tech
Dive into a rich conversation in this episode that encapsulates the journey from telecommunications to the era of artificial intelligence. Our guest shares captivating stories from his early experiences navigating the traditional telecom landscape, recounting the challenges of making phone calls using payphones and the inefficiencies he faced. This exploration leads to his pursuit of electrical engineering and ultimately transitioning to telecommunications at Multimedia University.
Throughout the episode, you’ll discover how the intersection of personal experience and professional ambition has equipped him with the knowledge needed to propel social change. His commitment to empowering communities became evident as he actively participated in volunteer initiatives like teaching coding in Kibera, aiming to equip the next generation with essential skills.
The conversation then shifts towards entrepreneurship, with a focus on innovative projects that aim to address social issues. He elaborates on building platforms that cater to the needs of refugees, emphasizing the significance of technology in delivering meaningful solutions.
As AI continues to reshape industries, our guest articulates the immense potential that lies ahead - framing AI not as a looming threat but as an invaluable complement to human effort. The dialogue encourages listeners to embrace risk, prioritize training, and innovate while considering ethical implications as they navigate this evolving landscape.
This episode not only inspires those interested in tech but also invites an invigorating discussion about our collective future. Don’t miss out on these valuable insights. Subscribe now, and let’s explore how we can build a more connected and innovative world.
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where I used to go and make calls. So you need to find coins, go there, slide them in, then call your parents. You have to go and queue when there's a long queue. So I was like this is very inefficient, so like if there's an area that allows us to improve this then, if it's telecom, then that was, like now, the area I wanted to focus on and it was closely related to electrical engineering. So electrical engineering was like the, what you are aiming for. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But when you didn't get that now, I decided to do telecom.
Speaker 3:Ah yeah, so eventually you did your form. Form three. Form four yeah. And performed really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you can try and guess. What did I get If I started with 410, yeah, and then the natural selection. What do you think I got?
Speaker 3:Man, since you're here, why should I say Okay, I?
Speaker 1:got an A A I got an A of 79 points.
Speaker 3:Ah, so you missed like one point, two points.
Speaker 1:I felt bad man, I was like it was just two points and then I get a clean A, and then I get that time. My first election course was electrical engineering. Uon. And then I think my second or third selection was telecommunications engineer at multimedia. Yeah, so I missed. So because I got the A minor, I missed out the cutoff points For.
Speaker 3:UON For UON.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so when there were that period of selecting the course, if you want to change, yeah, I changed very quickly. To I put telecom as the first choice. I didn't want to. I was hearing these stories of guys that you get thrown into a course you didn't select, You're taken to education or something. I didn't want that. I wanted a sure bet If I take this course. It's the one I wanted. Luckily, I got it.
Speaker 3:Which university multimedia.
Speaker 1:I landed at multimedia. Okay, yeah, that I met was a constituent of jquot. Yeah, it had not yet gotten the chatter, so you are the last group that our syllabus was the jquot syllabus. So if you are graduating I get a jquot SAT, but the coursework we were doing it in multimedia. So we were the last group. So the groups that came after us the certificate they get they were multimedia university.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, yeah, Ah, interesting. So how is that experience in multimedia? Multimedia is on your way to Rongai, right? Yes, on your way to Rongai, just before you get to wrong.
Speaker 1:yeah yeah, multimedia was very the first person, actually I've never had, yeah, yeah. Second selection was multimedia sick. Yeah, my second selection was because of the course why didn't you choose jquart?
Speaker 4:or the cut off, I think it was the cut off points.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so they had slightly lower cutoff points than Jquart, so that's why I chose them.
Speaker 3:Did they show it on the selection? Because last time I did my selection I didn't see that. I was like you know when that is and whatnot.
Speaker 1:At the time they were showing. So you think there were about four subjects. You select, say the physics, biology, you use them to calculate and then you get a total. So that total is what forms of it lets you know whether you qualify, if you have a chance to join the university you want? Yeah, so at that time I think multimedia had a slightly lower cutoff point than jayquat. So that's why I chose it.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to give it a very wide bet and then get thrown in one. I just wanted to be very sure and you're doing food science.
Speaker 3:I do want to do food science or sports or education I do want that, it's quite frustrating. Actually, it's a very big, big problem, because imagine you're doing something you never even imagined. You'd do Well, you'll do if you don't have any other option, but it's not the best way to look at it, so you go to multimedia. By then they used to have hostels and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, surprisingly it had some of the best hostels, because I think I went to J-Quart, I think I went to KU, I had friends in KU, friends in J-Quart. So, from what you could see, our hostels were really actually very good. Very good eh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the facilities were very good. There's this news feature. I saw it was on N okay, so they were highlighting how multimedia they had tele-learning, where you're in your room, the lecturer is somewhere else in class and it's like a zoom class sort and you're able to learn. So that really spiked my interest. I was like what? This is the school I selected. I'm headed in the right direction.
Speaker 3:And then it was even before COVID and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was before COVID, but I never experienced that when I was there at that time. I think maybe they were implementing it, maybe for some other classes, but in our engineering classes we had to go to class.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you report to multimedia. Yes, and you're doing telecommunications? Was it five years, four years, five years, five years yeah. How was that experience arriving in multimedia?
Speaker 1:It was interesting First time in Nairobi, so I always joke it's the rural urban migration you're learning about in GHC. I don't know if you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, geography, you must have done GHC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, social studies class. I think some people here did social studies. But anyway yeah. So rural urban migration First time in Nairobi. So it was an eye-opening experience being there, interacting with people from different areas, cultures and all that diversity. It was really interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And in this case, you meet new people from all over the country. Yeah. And some of them are more, maybe smarter.
Speaker 1:Yes, hey, natural selection version three yeah, you meet people who are very sharp, People who are very focused, People who are really geeked out. Then you realize hey, yeah, me I'm not geeked out. Me, I'm just, I'm aspiring yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's again. You just settle in your bracket of you, do what you can. Where curiosity takes you out of class, you explore that. Yeah, and then you just continued life yeah but I was, I was not. I was not one of those uh uh geeks in class. Yeah, I was more of uh trying to explore outside the the class. So, like looking at what you're learning in class, like yeah, if it's material science, statistics, all those things like how are they being applied out in the real world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're more of a community guy from university.
Speaker 1:Yes, so how I can answer that? I had some curiosity around website web development. There was a computer club in the university and they were teaching basic HTML, so I decided to go and check that out. That sparked my interest in computer science and then came across some opportunities, some volunteer opportunities to teach kids how to code. That program is called kids comp camp, but that time it's still being run by a guy called uh caleb daca. There's a very interesting story where I'll mention caleb later on. Yes, yeah, so kids comp camp is. It was sort of my first um experience dipping into community work. Yeah, so we were going to Kibera to volunteer with our laptops.
Speaker 1:We carried our laptops. We went to teach kids in Kibera how to use computers and we were focusing on a gaming language. I don't know if it was called Kodu or something. I've forgotten the name. But, we were basically teaching them how to program using gaming, so that was my first experience.
Speaker 3:Engagement with the community? Yes, and this is in your second year, or first year, or third year.
Speaker 1:This was in my, I think, third year. Third year, yes. Third year, yes, interesting.
Speaker 3:So by this time you have gauged telecommunication and you see, this is what you want to do.
Speaker 1:Yes, at the final year, yes, gauged telecommunication. And you see, this is what you want to do. Yes, yes, I know, I know I want to work at a telecom company. I know I want to do work at Cisco and all that. Like I, I had a guiding north. I knew what I wanted to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So even by that time in second year my first internship I got an internship at Telecom Telecom Kenya. That time it was called Orange and it was a very eye-opening experience. So the things I'd learned in class for two years that already got me job ready, such that I even got an offer to to continue with the job. Okay, and I got an internship extension of one month and then I was given an option do you want to continue? Do you want to go back to school? So it's like if what I've learned in two years can get me to be a telecom engineer, yeah, then I want to do the whole beat and see what I'll get at the end. So, yeah, I decided to go back and continue with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what would you attribute to that course that really it's that good. By second year, third year, you are ready for the market.
Speaker 1:I think it's a mix. I can't remember all of them, I don't know. Digital electronics, analog electronics.
Speaker 3:Was it more practical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, multimedia was practical. I mean, we used to go to the lab. We had a lab where you had this equipment for testing frequency, electricity and so on. It was actually a very practical course, especially on the hardware side, because multimedia it used to be one of the training centers for telecom.
Speaker 3:Orange.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had a training college for telecommunications, so the equipment they were using to train employees was still there. And that is what we were being exposed to, so it was very, very relevant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and even from the name. Actually, now that I think about, it it was established for multimedia you know, such as KBC and the rest. That is media houses. Because, also I understand, in the fourth year I did computer science. So there was a unit, selective unit like covers four units. It is a multimedia. It was called, I think, multimedia something. So it's the science behind multimedia, that is, recording the content and then compressing it and storing it as digital.
Speaker 1:So there's cloud there. It was really interesting how radio stations, how radio frequencies work. Yeah, it's a very relevant course, if you understand. Yes, it is telecommunications. You get what is being advertised is what you get. Yeah, yeah, so I'd say it's a highly relevant course.
Speaker 3:Sure, sure, very, very relevant, yeah, and it's also highly used in military.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:In your mind did you think I should be?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so during the time guys were looking for internships or places they are talking about being hired. I think KDF came up or just the military came up, because they're out in the field and they need to communicate with each other, with their walkie-talkies and all that. So, it's very relevant.
Speaker 3:And in the airports and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then there was the SDR, so software-defined radios, or just the software element of radio engineering. So it was very interesting At that time. We even encountered that in our coursework, so it sort of prepared us for the industry. But of course, starting with the past, you start with the analog and then you come to the digital.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you do that alongside the analog and then you come to the digital. Yeah, so you do that alongside the community and then you choose to go back to school to finish up. Right, how was that for you?
Speaker 1:It was very insightful. So when I go back to class, at least I knew the things I was now, the things I'd noticed while working. I was coming across them even in the coursework the third year, fourth year and fifth year.
Speaker 3:So it was more relatable for you More relatable more practical, yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Now, actually we have another telecommunication engineer in the house, but left one mic. This could be very, very interesting, but of course maybe there will be another part where we deep dive. Actually, I feel like we should do telecommunication as a topic and talk about these things.
Speaker 3:There are so many people actually in the community who reach out asking you know when they have done their KCSE. Oh, someone wants to choose computer science. Which university offers the best? I think that could be a really interesting discussion going forward. So once you do all this, I'm sure you know how was the personal life Were you in the peer pressure where you're looking for a girlfriend in multimedia. No Natural selection, it just happens if they are supposed to happen, but they didn't happen for you.
Speaker 1:Yes, we were first year. Second year we were a group of friends Maybe one of my friends who were with him in high school. At that time he was the only one among us who had a laptop, so every time we were done with the class we used to go to his room play nfs. Uh-huh, finished all the levels of nfs. Oh, need for speed ah, need for speed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is where the car is. Yeah, the car is racing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a really there's no time for fun okay, we were that group of uh, of guys who don't want to say we were not chasing girls at that time. First year, second year we were just you know, you just hang out as guys, you meet up, you go to eat, yeah, if you meet up with other people, you just chat Like it was just natural.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, high school, nothing, you know no, high school no.
Speaker 1:Now that you're a guy who was doing extracurricular, I'm assuming some of those things were funkies and whatnot. I was playing. Interesting enough, I was playing a sport called badminton.
Speaker 3:Yes, I know badminton.
Speaker 1:So I was the team captain for two years, yeah, and I think we go to provincials, okay, yeah, we were almost getting to nationals but that guy on the other side was tough, yeah, so we missed. We missed out on that yeah, yeah, interesting, interesting.
Speaker 3:So even in uni I was still playing badminton, yeah guys, if you're listening to this and you're in university, you know high school, you know. Yeah, guys, if you're listening to this and you're in university, high school, if you find someone you like, just have a healthy relationship. It will teach you a lot of things, rather than coming out here and getting character development.
Speaker 1:It's part of the process. You have to get it. The earlier you get it, the better.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and the experience is very, very important. I'm the guy who is telling people the truth, because I've realized parents are not really doing that job and they tell you no, no, focus with school first. Once you finish, you can explore these other things. Well, I'm saying, explore them in an healthy manner, yeah, which means no one gets okay, someone might get hurt, but yeah, no one actually does the reversible.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, I think things just happen.
Speaker 3:As much as you're given advice and everything.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, you just find yourself in certain situations, so the world just teaches you, so you can't run away from that.
Speaker 3:So yourself, did you find yourself in such a situation?
Speaker 1:Of character development? Not, really, not really. It has never happened a situation Of character development, not really it has never happened so far.
Speaker 3:Of course it has happened. We'll get there. Then, when it happens, please tell us so that someone can learn from it. So you finished your bachelor's right. Yeah, you got good grades again.
Speaker 1:I think I got second upper upper, just really good. Yeah, I tried not try, you made it no, I did a different that's a like top 30% there's the Kenyan way of saying cupid here nakupita so which one did you do? I I passed through it In my eyes.
Speaker 3:I passed through it Exactly. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I passed through it. We studied. Telecom is a very hard course. It's not easy. It's a very hard course.
Speaker 3:Harder than what.
Speaker 1:Harder than computer science. This conversation is going to get interesting real quick. You'll see yourself trending, but it's not me.
Speaker 3:Me. I think telecommunication is very easy and the reason is because rarely do those things change. From that perspective, like frequency is the way you learn frequencies, 1960 is the same way, uh, but the challenging part that I find with computer science that, yeah, it's like medicine yeah you find that you need to solve real-time problem.
Speaker 3:and you see, even with it, and we'll talk about it, because in the ai, when you're studying I don't think ai was one of them like this is it course people learned it in school. There was anticipation. It's going to grow, learn a lot of theory, but right now, as you speak actually someone who is focusing AI in school. Right now it's more practical than ever.
Speaker 3:And there are so many underlying lessons that you can learn from that. But of course, as any science, I don't expect it to be straightforward, very easy. So from that perspective I find it telecommunications is a bit fair, because nowadays you can actually go and refer a lot of things that other people have learnt, not to say even you can't. But of course, if you rely on that, you graduate, get even a first class and realize, oh, I can't do much in the industry. Uh, but of course that's relative, that's my opinion yeah.
Speaker 1:So for for telecom actually, you, you have to learn electrical engineering. So the basics of it, yeah, heavy voltage, light voltage, um. But the interesting bit is the you have to learn the analog part. So you start with the analog and then you also have to learn the digital, the digital telecom part of it, electronics. Okay yeah, so it's quite heavy yeah, it's quite heavy the calculus, the statistics, the material science computer scientists in the house.
Speaker 3:Please comment down below, because we do all that. The plus.
Speaker 1:Now the application I should have the hardest courses for you.
Speaker 3:I didn't know we have one fresh from the kitchen. I don't know if you should actually comment, but yeah but anyway, um, regardless of um how hard any courses, I normally say the the interesting part is, if you yourself you feel like this is what I want to do, it becomes, becomes much, much easier. There's no science that is really crazy hard. I know to some extent there are those like rocket science is the most referenced hardest course, but if you really want to do rocket science, you can do it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So the notion of something is hard. Of course something might be harder than the other, but it doesn't mean it can't be done.
Speaker 1:You just need to get more time. Yeah, other people have passed through it and passed, so why can't you also pass? Like it's possible, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So you do this, you get your second hopper and you come to the industry. By this time were you doing the AI?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've actually skipped some parts yet. So while in uni in 2016, after doing the kids' comp camp for volunteering, an opportunity comes up from Intel, the Intel Student Partner Program, where they are. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember I think that's where we met. Yeah, I think that's where we met.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's where we first met In 2016,. They were starting with Internet of Things, so they were selecting different students from different universities, the best students in the university who understand programming, and all to go and train other students and promote the development tools from Intel. Yeah, so I applied and I got through. I was selected for Multimedia University and we started with the Internet of Things in 2016. And then in 2017, they had moved to AI as a topic.
Speaker 3:This time this program was run by Tabre or the other guy.
Speaker 1:It was that time it was run by Roy the.
Speaker 3:Intel.
Speaker 1:Student Partner Program specifically.
Speaker 3:Roy, the one who is now in Germany.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, he's doing robotics.
Speaker 3:I think you should look for that. He's doing.
Speaker 1:The last time I checked he was still working in Intel AI. So, he's doing machine learning, if I'm not wrong.
Speaker 3:Unless he has changed yeah you should have him Because I saw he's the guy who built the robotic arm that could actually interpret most of the yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The one that got him, I think, the president's recognition or something it's from.
Speaker 3:UON, I think yeah, it was from UON he was doing semiconductor.
Speaker 1:Yes, so Roy was one of the. He was actually part of the panel that was hiring the student partners at that time. And then he was the one who was managing everyone at that time, so it was really interesting and by then he was still a student. Yes, yes, I think he had just completed. I think he had just completed. And then he was made the head to run Intel. But he also started as a student partner and then he eventually became the one running the program.
Speaker 3:He got promoted. So what was this student partner program?
Speaker 1:So it was basically Intel. They have a suite of development tools, that time the Arduino boards. They had their own version of the Arduino boards, intel Galileo and so on. So they wanted people to develop on top of them. So they had to get people who could train other people on how to use them. So that's why they developed the student partner program on how to use them. So that's why they developed the student partner program. Yeah, so they give you a bunch of boards 10 or 20, and you teach people how to program on them and the goal is by people developing prototypes on these Intel boards. When they get to a production level, they'll still come back to Intel for the chips and everything. Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Very nice. So what did you learn from this?
Speaker 1:It was it taught me, I think, most of my management and event management skills and just how to be a leader, how to be a trainer, and it also showed me how much people appreciate, showed me how much people appreciate technology and how much people appreciate learning new things outside the classroom, because these were things they were not interacting with in the classroom, but we were giving them a platform where they could apply most of the things they were learning in school to this particular development board.
Speaker 3:But this actually begs me to ask you at what point did you realize you are a leader?
Speaker 1:I think at what point? High school I'd say uni when I was running the student partner program, but also in high school when I was a captain for the badminton team. I think that's where it started.
Speaker 3:Started enlisting that leadership. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And even in primary I think I was a CU leader in primary.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, you in CU? Yeah, I was preaching, think it started in primary. You in CU? Yeah, I'm in CU, I was preaching, man, I was preaching on Sundays in PAG Church. It was really interesting, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think it started in primary, yeah. Late class seven, class eight, there, yeah. And then it keeps growing with time, it keeps growing with time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it still is yeah, and then it keeps growing with time. It keeps growing with time. It still is so in these leadership roles that you have in different capacities, up to the point where you are an Intel student partner and carrying out these events. Have you ever faced a challenge that was not in?
Speaker 1:Challenge in the sense of.
Speaker 1:Leadership people you are leading, you know not not really, but just an interesting story. A so while in uni, um I, I had applied for a program, an entrepreneurship uh program. It's called traprap Camp. It was in Boston and I got selected, but the cut was you had to pay a certain, you were given a scholarship, like a 50% scholarship, and then the rest you have to raise by yourself. So I had to raise money to go to US. How much was this? I think was it three. I think it was around $3,000.
Speaker 3:So they give you 15, you get four.
Speaker 1:No, the program is like 4,000. So they give you 5,000% of your scholarship, so you have to raise your flight tickets and you have to raise part of the tuition to go for the program. It was a three-week program in Boston and the program was very good. It exposes you to real industries, real startups that are building real solutions in the US, and the goal was to build up that entrepreneurial spirit, but from an emerging technology sort of standpoint.
Speaker 1:So you got exposed to IoT companies, robotic companies, AI companies, and that's also some of the things that made me do AI Kenya. So when I was doing that fundraising, part of my strategy was family and friends, raising from family and friends, the community. I think even one event where I think you know, Royna right.
Speaker 3:Yes, I know Royna.
Speaker 1:Royna. I think she was a GDG at that time At.
Speaker 3:Strathmore.
Speaker 1:At Strathmore and they were having an event at Moringa School and I was speaking on IoT and, I think, on AI, yeah. So as part of my closing, I put up my poster. I said guys, I'm going to Boston to learn for an entrepreneurship boot camp for three weeks.
Speaker 3:Please contribute to my Mchanga Ah it was Mchanga account, yeah, mchanga yeah.
Speaker 1:So, as part of that, another strategy was reaching out to companies that you feel could support you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you feel could support you. Yeah, so I interacted with one particular MD who I was telling them about yes, I want to go for this program, can your company please sponsor me? And I was shot down. Yeah, so this particular person actually shouted at me saying oh why are you doing this? You have not done this and this and this and this. So it was more of a critique of why I should not go and why I was doing things wrongly. But that whole entire experience just taught me to there's a certain way you should treat people even if you're giving them feedback.
Speaker 1:That time I had a startup called Sahibu that was aimed at helping refugees, connecting them to information, so I'd mentioned that as part of my why that going for this bootcamp will actually help me to build more on this startup and when I come back, I'll share my knowledge and experience with people. So the person went for the refugee startup, criticized this and this and this. Yeah, so it was a very eye-opening experience. Yeah, but I still soldiered on and managed to raise money from family and friends, Went for the bootcamp and came back. Yeah, yeah, nice nice.
Speaker 3:You have said that's where you started your entrepreneurship journey, or yes, so the entrepreneurship journey still in university, um uh.
Speaker 1:So, as part of the Intel trainings that I had done, one of the guys I trained wanted came across a competition. I think no, he. I don't know how he approached me, but I trained him on the Intel technologies. He had come, he had built prototypes yeah on the intel technology. He had come, he had built prototypes, yeah, and he wanted to. He was thinking of a concept of how we could measure um the trash in a container yeah using an iot device so he asked me how can you like wing or?
Speaker 1:yeah, like measuring. So if I give you a bean in this corner, I want to tell me how much. How much full is. Is it 10% full? Is it 1% full? So he gave me that challenge. So I sat down and I was like I think I know how we can solve this. So we use an ultrasonic sensor to measure the distance in the container. So if it meets an obstacle it goes back, it puts that distance, it calculates with the total one and then a percentage, and then it tells you it's 10%, 20%, 4%. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so at that time there was a competition called the Hald Prize where the challenge was how you can help refugees live better lives. Yeah, and he told me, how can we use this solution, how can we apply it to the refugee sort of problem use case? But we didn't eventually end up going with that. We pivoted to another direction. But what eventually happened with that particular device? We did, we prototyped it. It became very efficient. It even got us an interview on national TV I think it was KTN at that time. The project was called Mazingira Project and we demoed it. We went with it to represent the university in innovation shows, eventually also got it to have an interview with Eric Omondi. There was this show was he was the host of a show that was, uh, highlighting hardware innovations from african innovators. Eric omondi, the comedian, the comedian, yeah, so at that time he was the host. Okay, yeah, I think I should look for that, lord, it was very interesting was it in ktnN or?
Speaker 1:NTV. I think it was KTN, ktn, yes, yes, yeah, he worked in KTN shortly yes yes, what was the?
Speaker 3:name. There's a name of that show I can't remember, but it was really really short, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It had, like I think, 10 or 20 guys, 10 episodes. Yeah they they showcased. One of them was the device we had done. So how the entrepreneurship came about is for the refugee competition. We came up with him the same guy is called Maura Mohawiru, shout out to him and we decided to come up to participate in the competition. So there are different rounds the university round. And then a regional round.
Speaker 1:At that time it was happening in dubai and then the finals. So we won the university round. So I partnered up with uh. One of my classmates I called dan kana okelo um at that time was a very good coder. He he was specialized in usSD. I think he even used AT.
Speaker 3:At that time, Africa Stalking API.
Speaker 1:So, during our research for looking at how can we tackle the refugee problem differently, everyone was doing the thing of clothes, food, you know, mental health and all that. But as we were doing the research, we came across a report that highlighted how important information was, so knowing that this is where food is being distributed, these are the opportunities, scholarships and all that and so on. So we decided to tackle the problem of information.
Speaker 1:So we built a platform where the refugees will come and they get all the life-saving information in one platform and the demo for that I think. We built a platform where the refugees will come and they got they get all the life-saving information in one platform and the demo for that I think. We did a ussd, um sort of a prototype that was telling you the refugee camps that are available, uh, where you can get them, um, getting connected to the ngos that could help you, and so on, and we won. So that's where my entrepreneurship sort of experience started.
Speaker 3:So did you win a cash prize or program?
Speaker 1:No, we won a trip to Dubai to go and represent the university in the regional competitions. And it was also very interesting because now we were meeting not only undergraduates but also postgraduates from all over the world that selected Dubai as their point of winning so that they go to the finals. So the final had like five startups only.
Speaker 1:So, the startup that would win in Dubai was one of five that would present at the finals. Yeah, so we didn't win, but it was a very eye-opening experience. So the South that would win in Dubai was one of five that would present at the finals. Yeah, so we didn't win but it was a very eye-opening experience. You realize how smart you are, how innovative you are, once you interact with other people.
Speaker 3:In the real world. Yeah, in the real world, not in the books and grids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a good eye-opening experience.
Speaker 3:Nice, nice. So, when you say a region, was it email? Is it email?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah that is, europe, middle east and asia. Yeah, so dubai was one of the main hubs, okay, so like a hundred universities were coming there to participate it was a lot. So we had like four, four rooms where you were pitching and each room had like 10 guys 10 or 20 startups that are competing. So you go and sit on the other side and you watch some of them pitch After you have pitched or before, depends Sometimes before, sometimes after.
Speaker 3:So you guys had a schedule like when you're supposed to pitch.
Speaker 1:Yes, the pitch was five minutes. We rehearsed with my co-founders. We rehearsed that thing to the dot. Yeah, so I had my line for two minutes. Uh, one of the co-founders, jennifer, had her her lines for two minutes. Maura had his line for x minutes so everyone had their part and we rehearsed it to the dot timing it. Timing it until you were doing five minutes so time was of essence time. You're only given five minutes to do an entire startup pitch deck problem solution opportunity.
Speaker 1:What you are, how is it different from other people? And then, why do you need the funding? How will you use the funding? Then, who is the team?
Speaker 3:five minutes done, five minutes yeah, yeah, so that's very important because I tell people like I don't have all the time, communication is a very important skill so like that, really sort of sort of molded, the art of communication for me so like just communicating.
Speaker 1:Precisely this is what you are doing. This is the solution, and that's it in five minutes, nice, yes.
Speaker 3:So you really get a huge exposure twice actually yes. From the school and after school.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:With the Boston. So from that point you are for sure, if I want to start a company, I can start a company. I know how to arrange my deck, what is required, but do you build a team?
Speaker 1:This came after, so the Dubai came before, and then it did Boston, and then, also in the middle of that, I had applied for a program by Microsoft. It's called the Microsoft Insiders Program. They discontinued it I think it ran for around two years and the idea was they were looking for startups that were using technology for good, so like social enterprises with a tech element. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So me, with my ambition, I went there and applied with Sahibu. So the startup for refugees was called Sahibu Sahibu meaning a friend, so we wanted to build. The ultimate goal was to build a companion to refugees, like a virtual assistant to refugees.
Speaker 3:You've said, Sahibu means a friend and. I remember, masaibu means problems. Masaibu means problems In Swahili, that is.
Speaker 1:Swahili, but it's masahibu. Yeah, this one is sahibu.
Speaker 3:It's just a relation that you really need, a friend when you're going through tough times. Yes, good selections yes.
Speaker 1:So we applied to the Microsoft Insiders for Good program. I also got selected. Applied to the Microsoft Insiders for Good program, I also got selected. So in the middle of me just finishing the university, we got a chance to now engage in the boot camp now from Microsoft again acceleration program. I think I was running for about nine or eight months, so that also sort of showed me what it takes to build a business, a social enterprise. Team costs, learning costs and all that.
Speaker 3:It really exposed me. Oh nice, yeah. So actually, what I'm learning from all these is that put yourself out there for all these.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you'll get them, sometimes you won't get them sometimes you'll win, sometimes you won't lose anything at the end of the day. Yeah, sometimes we won't get them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll win. Sometimes you won't lose anything at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah, you just need to experience. Yeah, yeah, and then, uh, did you pivot the cyber after?
Speaker 1:yeah so, uh, after after finishing um uni, I got the boston um trap company in the production program. Yeah so I, I it. But the catch was you couldn't use the same startup you had to pitch to investors, so at the end of the program you had to come up with another startup, a new startup.
Speaker 3:Were you supposed to take the ones that got you there?
Speaker 1:No, you are here so as part of testing whether you really understood the entire or just to see how it.
Speaker 1:How the whole experience for you was you form teams among us yourselves and you come up with the startups and then you pitch in front of real investors like American VCs and all yeah. So I think at that time we came up with I can't remember the name of the startup, but one of my team members was. He was a guy from Philippines and he had this story about how his grandmother died because she couldn't get the right medicine. And yet this medicine called Ayurveda.
Speaker 1:It is sort of a natural, organic medicine that's very popular in India and Asia regions. So we wanted to look at how can we use technology to connect more people to Ayurveda medicine. So that's the solution we created. We pitched it didn't go through, yeah, but also learned a few things from there. What did you learn? So your team members are very important. The team members you have are very, very important, yeah, and also the amount of work you put in. If you're the one with the idea, you need to put in the most effort.
Speaker 3:You cannot depend on the guys who don't have the idea.
Speaker 1:It's like you and me. Let's say I'm from an area that doesn't have roads and from an area that has roads, and then I want to work on a solution to address areas that don't have roads. So the person who has the problem, you have to make sure you put in as much effort to make sure everyone in the team sort of understands but also person who has the?
Speaker 1:problem. You have to make sure you put in as much effort to make sure everyone in the team sort of understands. But also, uh, the solutions you pitch for some. Some solutions. They are more of good and they take time before you you actually get some traction in terms of revenue yeah so the kind of investors you're speaking to are also very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, an investor who is looking for a subscription business where you are getting you start touching money on day one, is very different from an investor who, who realizes you you have to work on this thing for five years before you start seeing revenue. So also the kind of investors you you interact with are very important. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So even in this case it's more, even looking outside the power wheel of the idea, to the even investors and even users, the environment, that solution is going to work.
Speaker 1:Yes and then can support you. It's sort of very hard to balance. How will you work on this idea? How will you sustain it? It's a tech idea, so you have running cost of servers, running cost of event team members, if you're having any, or just admin cost of moving around as you're tackling your problem. So the reality sort of kicks in, whether do you really want to do this or not, or do you want to pause this work on it on the side and see what will come out of it.
Speaker 3:Okay, but you ended up pivoting the solution.
Speaker 1:So we left I think I left the solution with the team member that it was up to him whether he wanted to.
Speaker 3:Were you, two of you or three?
Speaker 1:We were around, I think four of us.
Speaker 3:In that team? Yes, so everyone said the purpose.
Speaker 1:The guy who brought the problem statement, he was from Philippines. Yeah, we really crafted a very nice idea and packaging and now I was even asking him after the program yo can we take this to the next level? But he didn't really pick it. Oh for him it was, like you know, by the way yeah because the solution we had built it was very relevant to the Asian market. Yeah, because of Ayurveda True, true, yeah, that organic medicine and all that. So there was no way I could take that and come with it.
Speaker 1:Come with it here. So he decided to leave it out, and then that's how it died. So, for me when I came back from the program. I think I started there in Kenya and then I continued working on Sahib. Which year was this 2017. From the program, I think I started AI Kenya and then I continued working on Sahib. Which year was this 2017.
Speaker 3:That's when you started AI Kenya.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:What led you to start AI Kenya?
Speaker 1:So what led me to start AI Kenya was, at that time there were developer communities. Some were trying to tackle AI, but it was mostly from that passion I had from training AI while I was part of Intel. So we'd go to Mombasa. So for us, we started extending our network.
Speaker 1:So as much as I was assigned to Multimedia University, we were still allowed to go to Mombasa, train guys in Mombasa. I remember we went to Mombasa, we went to Eldoret, yeah, different parts of the country, and whenever we were done with the training you would see how much appreciative guys were they were like yo. That was really eye-opening. Yeah, like I really learned something interesting and I'm looking forward to learning more from you guys. So the learning from that is there was still a huge gap in terms of knowledge for. Ai at that point.
Speaker 1:So that's what led me to start AI Kenya, to continue the work that I'd started. But I also had a vision of taking it to the next level having a company, a research arm, startups and all that We'll get there, Chiba.
Speaker 3:So the Intel student program lasted for one year.
Speaker 1:So the Intel student program lasted for one year for IoT and then in 2017, they rebranded it to Intel AI Software Ambassador. So Intel AI Software Ambassador lasted for one year in 2017. That was it that was it Never happened again. Yeah, it ended from there.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah yeah, I can only guess why that happened. Yeah, yeah. So you start AI just to address this. Why community, why not just you know? Open a school and teach people.
Speaker 1:It was going with the flow and going with the the energy that was there at that time. So, um, while I was in boston, um, there was a meetup I attended. I think it was a company called kayak, so kayak deals in, uh, connecting flights yes travel big company.
Speaker 3:anyways, right now yes.
Speaker 1:So that time they were talking, it was more of an AI meetup tech AI meetup. That time they were looking at how can they power travel booking experiences where you use your voice. Yeah. Where you're using Amazon Alexa or you're using Google as a Google home speaker. Yeah. And you just say, hey, I want to go to Lagos, and it books. It asks you a few questions using the voice and then you're able to book your flight connected your credit card. So those are some of the problems they were tackling.
Speaker 3:I was like yo. This is very interesting. That is in 2016?
Speaker 1:2017 yeah, I was like yo, this is so interesting, like guys have come together after an afternoon and this is what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:So I was like yo, I want to bring this back home. Yeah. So that was one of the things that actually motivated me to start Aya Kenya, because I wanted to bring the same quality of experience I saw there back home, yeah, and then see where does it go from there. Because I knew there were a few people who were trying to get into that field and also because of the feedback I was getting from people that, yeah, they still want to keep going and keep learning and get connected to opportunities.
Speaker 3:So that's where it started so I'll ask the question that I get asked the most. Actually, I think even you asked me at some point. I'm not sure I might be wrong. So when you want to start a community, where do you start?
Speaker 1:Why are you doing it?
Speaker 3:You start with the why.
Speaker 1:What's guiding you? Why does it matter? Why is it important to do what you're doing?
Speaker 3:Especially to you or just generally?
Speaker 1:Yes, to you and also to the people you're doing it for.
Speaker 3:So, as they say, will I be able to make money in the community?
Speaker 1:It depends, because these days, there are people who will start it because they want to make money, and then there are people who will start it because they want to make money, and then there are people who will start it because they've genuinely seen a need or they want to expand that network of smart people. Most of the time, the community is about like-minded smart people. So you are smarter than me, let's say, in Python, and me, I've just started Python, but I really want to learn Python. So how do we get together? How do we get other guys together so that we grow as a group? I think for me, that's where it always starts, and also at the back. You have a goal right you want to elevate from level one to level five, so you need other people to do that.
Speaker 3:So in this case, how do I form partnerships to make sure that that happens?
Speaker 1:The partnerships. Most of the time it depends on what you're doing. Is it relevant to those people you want to seek partnerships with? So if there's synergy, it becomes very easy. It's also how you communicate If you're a good communicator. If you're not a good communicator, they'll miss out on the point and you won't get it. So it has to be aligned with the partner and you have to really pitch that. Why is it important to them? That they need to be part of whatever you're doing.
Speaker 3:Okay, I see. So that's out of the way because, like the three most asked, questions Our own community?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because, you see when.
Speaker 3:I started communities. There were no communities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:The one that existed was what? Was it about.
Speaker 1:GDG no no no.
Speaker 3:GDG. We started that.
Speaker 1:Which year was this? Which year was this?
Speaker 3:Maybe 2012 or 2011 2010? I'm not sure around 2011 to 2012 yeah, in between. Yeah, so nowadays there are so many communities and I'm so happy to see because with the communities actually brings opportunities eventually companies, new talent and all that. Yeah, so you start AI community, ai Kenya community, which is one of the largest communities.
Speaker 1:Yes, in East Africa.
Speaker 3:Yeah, In East Africa right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:On what does it all?
Speaker 1:just there's data science. Nigeria, that has high tasks.
Speaker 3:Any community in Nigeria is huge.
Speaker 1:It's huge, nigeria that has high. Any community in Nigeria is huge. That market is huge 200 million.
Speaker 3:It's a lot. There's another one called Dev Circle.
Speaker 1:Dev Circle Facebook Meta.
Speaker 3:Let me check it out. It's Dev Circle Let me check it out's devsaco let me check it out. There's a lot of members, a lot of them, so they are quite also active in how they do engagement. There's devsafrica, which is so big it's called what is it? Devcenter sorry there's like 22,000 members yeah, that's a lot when you, when you call those people together one day you don't know where you can host them but in Nigeria is where you can host a meetup and a thousand people shows up, so it's crazy man like the energy there is.
Speaker 3:That's why I'm not surprised with whatever happens in nigeria yeah and I don't like bracketing everything, uh, because, of course, whether it's good, there's also bad. Yeah, and the equal measures. Um, so you start these events. Uh, did you start with a meetup? Do you start?
Speaker 1:virtually what's up. What's up group yeah.
Speaker 3:You just had a few guys.
Speaker 1:Yes, we just had all together. The geeks came together, we started the space. So there was this present WhatsApp group. We had an Intel WhatsApp group. Four guys were doing Arduino and a bit of AI and all that. So most of the conversations were either leaning towards IoT or just general tech. So we wanted a space where we could specifically talk about AI. So it's machine learning, machine learning, data science, data engineering, all that.
Speaker 3:So we just started as a WhatsApp group, had the first few events online on WhatsApp a Q&A on WhatsApp, whatsapp and another one on Telegram and then we started doing the physical then from there it's just been up and up and actually the AI movement has really helped it a lot over time because since I think starting in 2017, actually AI started catching up in terms of implementation it has always been there as theory and research and what not. 2017, actually, I started catching up in terms of implementation. It has always been there as theory and research and whatnot.
Speaker 1:So, from experience, what was the biggest challenge running a community? I'd say the biggest challenge running a community is and there are different types of communities. There are communities you start for yourself, like I, kenya, and then the community to get recruited to run, like at leisure, gdg, yeah, any other community that is linked to a tech vendor. So I think those ones are a bit easy but because there's someone who is but, yeah, there's someone who is following up on you.
Speaker 1:There's someone who is giving you resources, but for a community you start yourself, you have to think about sustainability. How do you sustain all of those things? And then you also have to think about the team that you have.
Speaker 3:Yes, so your biggest challenge has always been resources.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'd say yeah, resources, mostly resources, and also time. Yeah, time in the sense that you want to do so much by your own person. There are some things you can't delegate. You have to do them yourself, so you're also limited.
Speaker 3:Last time I checked you had a huge team behind you, or it was just volunteers for that particular.
Speaker 1:that's mostly volunteers who I engage on a on a need basis, yeah, but everything else I do full time myself yeah so only engage them when either we have a gig that we need to run let's say for a client or we have an event that we need to run.
Speaker 3:Let's say, for a client, yeah, or we have an event that we need to run, so you guys also take gigs in the community. Yeah, is that one way of raising funds?
Speaker 1:yes, so gigs, not really raising funds, just sustaining everything, yeah. So, uh, we did a hackathon for uber, I think it was 20 20. Yeah, that was a paid gig. You run, you organize the hackathon, end to end you execute it, you send a report and all that. Yeah, so that's where, when even the volunteers, they see the value of whatever they've been doing because they're getting paid. Yeah, they're getting paid as contractors yeah.
Speaker 3:So in this case do after maybe doing all the you know, the payment that is required for the hackathon do you remain with some funds that you can dedicate in the future meetups or hackathons.
Speaker 1:Yes, because you've been for me. Personally, I run, I sustain everything out of pocket by myself, so this also it comes as a very good way of now helping me to. I don't have to get money out of my pocket for some number of time. Yeah, so it really helps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. I'm asking this because, also, it's the same way we have been running Nairobi. I don't know if you know about Nairobi.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you know Nairobi. I know Nairobi More of the way you said it. You said it more of Nairobi.
Speaker 3:Nairobi, nairobi, nairobi and Ruby. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now it's called Africa Ruby Community because we're scaling it out throughout Africa. It's a community that is not backed by any company, so we depend either on sponsorship partnerships and also some time out of pocket. And it's because we see the value of both getting more experienced engineers or training them to be experienced, also a networking avenue for different stakeholders. And one thing actually I can say for sure companies should open more in sponsoring some of these communities. Of course I'm not downplaying that there are people who start communities with that mentality of wanting to make money out of this, which is really not a good notion.
Speaker 3:Of course I understand everyone has to eat, but not from the community.
Speaker 1:I think at the end of the day, it's natural selection always works. You can clearly see someone who is doing something to to raise money. Yeah, yeah, they'll just forget. They'll forget their script at some point and then just expose themselves. You always get caught at the end of the day, yeah. So if, yes, you're doing, that will come for you.
Speaker 3:Anyway. I'm joking I want to understand what is natural selection problem, because I also used to do AI, right, yeah, okay, yeah. So you run this and it's one of active community as well, as you know what has been the impact according to your experience running this community.
Speaker 1:The impact, I'd the impact you know according to to your experience running this community the, the impact, I'd say number one, the connecting people to opportunities. So we've been running the. We have a job board on our website where we share opportunities with people. Yeah and uh yeah. People come to you and tell you uh, yeah, we I applied for a job through our website and I got it.
Speaker 3:But what's your website, kenyaai? Kenyaai, yes, nice. By the way, nice domain. Yes, Don't lose it.
Speaker 1:I can't lose it, the domain. It was actually a suggestion from when I was recording the podcast, the Kenya podcast. We still didn't have a domain name. Yeah. So one of the producers for the podcast is called Chris Blythe. He actually worked on the iRobot movie, the one where Will Smith is in it. I don't know if you've watched it.
Speaker 3:That is the podcast you're doing. Yeah, he's a Kenyan.
Speaker 1:No, he's not a Kenyan. I think, he's either from Scotland or UK, I can't quite recall. Yeah, but he's a very good VFX artist, yeah. So he told me, do you have a website? No, no, okay, yeah, why don't you get an AI domain? Yeah. And I was like yeah, get it. And that's how I got it. So how did you meet this producer? By being very good at what you do, and then synergies and energies things happen and you just meet.
Speaker 3:You meet, but you stopped recording at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we stopped recording. Yeah, that podcast was expensive, man. It was a while. The things were due at that time, man.
Speaker 3:Did you used to travel all the way? Record and go back.
Speaker 1:No, they had a studio as a business, so it's a production video shooting. It's called what's Good Networks here in Kenya.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, I remember it. It was based in Iambu. Yes. Iambu. Yeah, okay, yes, I have they recorded some of our videos, I think in 2019. No, no, no, nairobi, nairobi. Yeah, those are the guys we worked with Nice, nice nice.
Speaker 1:It was very interesting because I think in 20. Well, I was still in uni and we were attending these conferences. There was a conference at Oshawa, I think it was Africa Security or Nairobi Security something, and Wasco Studios was actually one of the booths. They had their own radio station production. They were trying to sell their services and I was like you guys are really cool. And then, two years down the line, one year down the line, they're producing mine and shooting my podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nice, yeah, nice, yeah. So eventually they just closed the office and went back.
Speaker 1:They still have a unit running here. I think they relocated to I think is it US or UK, I can't remember but the studio still runs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Because even then I remember actually it's just perseverance, because I remember then podcast was on there. Yes, the first time.
Speaker 3:I saw podcast. I think was with Kairi, who right now works for Microsoft. I think even I was shouting him out on Twitter saying what he started back in the day. Yeah, I'm exploring it now. Yeah, I think he was so visionary I'm exploring it now. I think he was so visionary. He used to have this gadget that he could put at the center of the table and you guys could tap a story and record. Then I was like, what is this? Is this a radio? What is this?
Speaker 3:So I could not really. I had an idea of what podcast is, but I think after COVID is when everyone was doing podcast. And then now, given the mainstream media's limitations on how much they can air for everyone, it's a good way even to showcase people like Alfred doing amazing stuff, scaling and stuff. So in this case, I remember you throwing a party 2019. 2019, yes, and coincidentally, it happened that we had a class in party on one room and Kenya AI in another room.
Speaker 3:I think before this podcast we were talking about it, but I would like people to hear about it, yeah, yeah, and actually this is about team and collaboration instance. We talk about the community and you had this super DJ and you came to where I was. I was setting up some gadgets, mk. Also, you're a member of Atlassian community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to come for your meet-ups. Still a member. Yeah, just that you don't come nowadays. I'll come.
Speaker 3:MK. Where's your main act, man? I don't have a budget. I remember then I used to have the small machines called.
Speaker 1:Numark small.
Speaker 3:It's called what?
Speaker 1:bootlegged with the decks, the briefcase, the steel briefcase no, that one was later then.
Speaker 3:I used to have a small new Mac. Ah, yeah, yeah it's like trying to have a good time because I realized that for software engineers and developers they don't really go to the mainstream parties like in clubs and all that, but when? They get a place where they can have some similar conversations. It's really interesting. That's how actually those parties started. As a main actor, I was like chief, I don't have the budget, I will be there, everything I will be the MC. The presenter the.
Speaker 3:DJ everything and you're like man, but I you know, when you told me your main actor is Kambula, you call him DJ he's called Teotripa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, teotripa he's. Who was part of Kambula Kambula? Yeah, who was part of Kamula Kamula? Yeah, I was so impressed, I actually came and checked out.
Speaker 3:The guy had some gear. Man like controller, cool gear.
Speaker 1:She'll actually put the pictures. I'll send you the pictures. Yeah please, you insert. Yes, please, editor, you'll insert the pictures. It was really nice yeah. How I met Teyo. So what's Good Studios, teyo was one of the. He also had a podcast that he was shooting at what's. Good Studios. So that's how we met each other. Yeah, you have a podcast, I have a podcast, and then I think he also did the sound production for my podcast. Oh nice yeah, nice yeah.
Speaker 3:What if you had a whole team behind you? So I was like okay, okay if things don't go well here, because you know? This dude made me doubt myself for a minute yeah I'll come on the other room and please don't chase us away but that never happened actually the opposite happened yeah, we joined the forces.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember that experience? Uh, clearly, because when I saw a lot of people and I was like, okay, what's happening here? And I realized, oh, the guys have moved from the other side and came, and one of the things that actually, that taught me the reason why I'm sharing this because we were thinking in 2022, having a community day in some of the conferences that happen in town Just to share the experience as devs and even where we can have a chat. Maybe even we should have a side podcast recording that we can share and share in different platforms, just telling our own story. So I thought that's quite something memorable for me when we closed our party.
Speaker 3:I think we also crossed over Actually they crossed over before you closed because I actually took a break, I left some nice music playing. Yeah, I went and checked like I view closed, but I found the guy still playing but with less people yeah, okay, that's nice, that's some affirmation. Yeah, so that's why now even I think Tamra was also in the room we started now discussing the community day where we can have parties, I think the following year or maybe later in the year okay, the following year actually I DJed for Dreadcon.
Speaker 3:Just you know, then I had some nice gear Just pro bono yeah. Yeah, that affirmation actually transformed to, like you know, deciding to get some proper gear for the record. Yeah and yeah. That's something actually we should be doing in the future together.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So let's talk a bit about AI. Right, and based on your experience as an AI guru in the community, what trends do you foresee in AI and technology in the next few or coming months? Because now you know, charge EPT is taking over.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But there is also research where doctors are using AI to help them diagnose and also carry out some of the most complex surgeries. So there are some researchers and scholars who are sitting down and doing that properly because, you know, with medicine you cannot afford all the mistakes. What other trends do you foresee coming?
Speaker 1:So I see a lot of new businesses. I think we'll see a spike in more digital businesses because of AI, so people who master the skill of using AI as your virtual assistant to help you in your day-to-day doing your business plan, running your social media campaigns and also um, there'll be an improvement in gdp. Basically, yeah, based on how people are adopting it okay um. Healthcare will improve agriculture will improve education. We love to evolve and adapt to how students are trying to use yeah, already thatbt, yeah, already, that's a big discussion even in the.
Speaker 3:Ivy League universities yeah.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, we just have to evolve. I think now it's a challenge to the teachers. You've been using a system that is 20 years old to see how smart students are, but now there's a new ingredient in the mix, so you have to go back to the drawing board and look at how can I still test this person, even as much as this judge? Gpt is here. It's just like the calculator. As much as you are doing exams with your calculator, there's so much that you can do with a calculator in an exam. So the same thing should happen for AI in education. They should look at how they can test that people have understood whatever they've understood from a human side without using the GPTs and all yeah.
Speaker 3:But from what I hear from you, which is actually reassures those who are fear that AI is coming to take over. You're saying AI can be used as a complementary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very strong complementary. Again, on the other side, it highlights the need for high specialization. So you really need to be good at what you do. If you're a photographer, you really need to be a good photographer. If you're a model, you love to be a good model. If you're a DJ, you really need to be a good photographer. If you're a model, you'll have to be a good model. If you're a DJ, you really need to be a good DJ. Spotify they're not playing around with that yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:So it's that nudge for humanity to evolve in terms of how smart we are, how we approach things, how we build things. So it's again natural selection comes back. At the end of the day, whoever knows how to use it very well will win with it. The people who sit back and say they're just comfortable, then of course you get pushed out yeah. If you look at a case of the telecom industry, so at one point in time we had humans who were switching calls.
Speaker 1:So in the 1900s I'm calling, let's say I'm calling someone like Faith or Mike right, switch that call, pull a wire and then put it and connect me like an actual hardware connection to the person I'm talking to. But now with technology that got automated and those people they were no longer there. But that didn't mean that there were no jobs Because of the telecom company and the mobile phones. Now you start looking at, you have customer care teams, you have product teams, so it actually created more jobs as opposed to that time where you were manually switching calls.
Speaker 3:Yeah, You've taken us so so far back. I can imagine if you switch it to the wrong person, and it used to happen a lot actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the same thing. We'll experience the same thing with AI, so people will love to evolve their work and we'll create more opportunities out of the automation that's happening. That's how I see it and do you see ethical problems with AI. Yeah, the ethical problems, but not only AI, just tech in general. Okay, yeah, just basic technology how your data is collected, how it is used. It is not really just an AI problem, it's a wide-take problem.
Speaker 3:And now that it's apparent with AI that data can be misused, copyright infringed, patents exposed, how do you think we can manage that without hurting the smart minds that really deserve recognition or even payment for what it's used for?
Speaker 1:By having more strict copyright sort of agreements and rules At some point in time. Most websites you can easily scrape their data but some websites that are smart enough. They put blockers to bots that automatically scrape data and things like that. So people have been very lenient and sitting back on copyright and also people have been overlooking how they share ownership of the things that they're writing about. At some point, let's say, you're a blogger, you're a tech blogger and you want to grow your audience and you want to show companies that you're really specialized in a certain area.
Speaker 1:So you have to write a blog post and expose it and make sure as many people get it as possible. You might do it to Medium. You might do it to another website that has an RSS feed that is picking it and putting it on another website. So the more you do that, it will get to a source where someone can easily click it and then use it to train a system, but it's universal knowledge. Use it to train, train a system, but it's universal knowledge.
Speaker 1:the thing is um one person from their perspective they're writing an article and they they wanted it to reach this number of people. But now when you bring in the machine element, it automates everything within a minute or so. So it has so much that it picks and that gets used to train a system. So at the end of the day, I always say how did you protect your copyright? The companies that are training this AI. There are certain processes that they follow.
Speaker 1:They either go to another company and they buy a data set from them, or they script their own data set. So at the end of the day, there's a trail of how this machine learning models were trained so if anyone has an issue, they can always go to those companies and tell them hey, I think you've used my work here and I was not properly paid for it. Then they'll go back to their trail oh this is how we got this information.
Speaker 1:Or we we got it illegally, or we mislooked something. Here's your end of the cut or we actually got this data from Mike, who is a data practitioner, and he collected it in a legal way, so I don't think we have a problem there. Whatever we used is legal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so do you see a lot of litigations on that breadth? Do you have really laws besides GDP and IPA, all those kinds? Do you really have laws that support some of these litigations?
Speaker 1:We don't Most of the laws. They've been very slow to catching up to sort of what AI is doing specifically, but the basic laws that govern how you collect data still help at the end of the day. So I think we won't. Moving forward, companies are more conscious of how they collect data. It's either you buy it from someone or you create it yourself, and whichever human is interacting at any point, they have to know this how their data is going to be used.
Speaker 1:So I foresee less number of actual legit copyright infringements, because most of the ones that some of them are just claims that hey, you used my work here here. Here, I need you to pay me for this and this, and then they go to court and they actually find out. Okay, these guys actually bought this data set from these guys, so they are not liable. So they were just supposed to be more responsible in terms of how they sell their data and how you expose your work online, and even with copywriting standards, creative commons and all those, they clearly define what you can do commercially and what you can't do. So I feel like, in some sort of way, it's a self-checker for the industry. But moving forward, we will see very, very less of these cases, and legit cases, because there are so many people right now who are taking this opportunity to you see one line or one sentence and then you claim it was yours.
Speaker 1:Now you want to sue the company you. It's a very tough job really proving that this paragraph of this sentence is actually yours. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I hear someone is considering you know, copywriting Mkuru. Have you heard of Mkuru Mkuru? Yeah, from Mkurugensi Mkurugensi. Yeah, they I mean yes, you want to copyright it, but it's like saying I'll copyright Ab body which is. It is language right but then that's a.
Speaker 1:That's another thing. We, we, we need to watch out on the things people are yeah yeah because people they copyright very, very funny things that they don't even make sense. You even wonder how will you enforce it yeah, right so you can. You can copyright something like a bariango and say commercially or something, but how you actually track it?
Speaker 3:you're preventing other people from using it yeah people might not use it but in the first place you didn't own it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you didn't, you didn't own it. But we need we actually need to be checking. We should have a site that calls out these crazy trademarks that people are registering that actually don't make sense.
Speaker 3:I think Kipi and any other corporate body that we have in Kenya should actually see. Cooperating is really important for regional work. But anything else that you are creative about, it might trend and stuff, but copywriting is not really that impactful and we have seen it actually even from what Atwoli was saying. That trended for several months and then he ended up copywriting and then he died off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he died. That's what happens at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:So is there any importance? Do you see the importance of companies collaborating to advance AI?
Speaker 1:Yes, very important. I would say for any tech company right now, or just any company at all you should have a small R&D department or two or three people who are doing research and development, who are testing out these technologies and looking at how can you apply them to your business so that you stay relevant, so that you innovate and even, at the end of the day, you have your own IP that you can branch into standalone products and sell. So it's very important to be actively doing something. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the more you hear about it AI, blockchain, web3, augmented reality, virtual reality you know web, virtual reality, virtual reality graph databases. You're hearing about it, you know you can use it in your business, but you're not taking that step of actually doing it and asking your team hey, this thing, what's the simplest thing you can build from it. So more companies need to start doing that, especially with AI. If they're not doing it now, then they'll find themselves they're lagging behind because other guys are doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very important. So for you, I'm sure you have done so many. You know partnerships, both for community and with your company, and you've build relationships. Any you know nuggets on how to maintain those partnership and relationship with different. You know people who even get interested in your work as you move, because I'm sure some of these guys you met them in the line of duty. Yeah, you know you ask yourself what can we do together? Yeah, or how can I help?
Speaker 3:And then something can be done from that. Of course, some of those things didn't work. Some of them worked. How do you not end up burning the bridges? Or, if you need to burn the bridges, what course is that?
Speaker 1:I'd say, in community work, documenting your work is very important from not only an event perspective, but just a general blogging, and all that To whoever you want to partner with. You need to package the narrative in a very good way so that they actually see it and experience it. And then also, don't only sell short-term, also sell long-term.
Speaker 3:Yeah okay, okay. So you said companies need to be innovative with. R&d so in your own experience or your own opinion, how important is risk-taking in driving innovation in AI and here we're talking about now, africa as it is. You know some parts. We still have 2G, we still have 3G or we have no technology at all. So, in this case, we are leapfrogging the plastic money, that is, the card, to M-Pesa. With that in mind, how are we able to take that risk of saying, okay, not R2G but how do you use? Ai.
Speaker 1:You have to take so much risk. It's a long bet, especially for industries like AI, where you, for most of the time, it starts around research. You research something, you develop. Of the time, it starts around research. You research something, you develop it, you package it into a product and then you sell it. If you're lucky, within two years or one year it starts picking up. Or it might take you five years before it really starts picking up and people actually see it. So the excuse of 2G, 3g we should not have that excuse at all.
Speaker 1:I think we're in a global village. We should not only build solutions for ourselves, but also solutions for the global market. We need to bring in that revenue into the country and reinvest it back into the community and even start other corporations and organizations. So we need to widen our lens to go beyond just solving problems for ourselves, but also solving problems globally, because you can't solve all the problems back home. So let's say you want to create a solution for your rural home that is deep, deep, where there's no 3G.
Speaker 1:There's only 2G. Right, you can only do so much. You can't go and look for money and put a telecom tower there and now bring 4G and 5G and then say, ah, now let's apply the application. Yeah, you need to focus where the technology supports but also get other partners who see the opportunity, partners who can now bring in that infrastructure that is required. But I always say it's not an excuse for us Not to develop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not to develop because there's a lack of infrastructure. There's some infrastructure in another area. So the fact that you have the not to develop because there's a lack of infrastructure, there's some infrastructure in another area. So the fact that you have the capability to develop means you can still sell it in another place that has infrastructure. Yeah, yeah interesting.
Speaker 3:So what kind of solution do you foresee coming from AI? Now we have seen which is, you know, text-based kind of conversation. Now they have added audio and it's growing. At least it's growing, but just one way. Which other things should we look at?
Speaker 1:So the virtual assistant will be very, very big and I think we really start feeling it when we extend it beyond the language, beyond English. We start doing Swahili virtual assistants, kikuyu virtual assistants, luya virtual assistants.
Speaker 1:I think it would be very powerful for me to take the solution to my grandma and they can actually talk to it and make up stories and all that, but in terms of also service delivery and customer care automating most of the processes, I don't want to go to NTSA to queue for two hours, something that I could have just done online. To be better. If I just talk to a chatbot, you give it your plate number, whatever you want your.
Speaker 1:ID number and then it simply solves your problem. You only go to the center when you're having a really big issue that needs to be addressed. So service delivery will really improve, both from government, you know, citizen services. Healthcare services will also really improve. Education how we learn will also really change if we really innovate well around it. Fintech will also really improve.
Speaker 1:So, there are so many touch points Of course I can't cover most of them, but the fact that we are an English-speaking nation, as one of our national languages, really puts us in a very good position to maximize on the AI tools that are mostly built around English.
Speaker 3:So, now that you've mentioned fintech and you work for one which is Payless Africa, right. Are you guys utilizing AI or not?
Speaker 1:yet, yes, we are utilizing AI at different points, but releasing it at the right time. When you're introducing some products, you have to start slowly, give the customer time to understand how to use the product before you really drop the heavy stuff on them to actually use. But in the background, there's lots of AI happening in the background, from personalization, fraud and all those things.
Speaker 3:Interesting. So, alfred, I don't know what you want to share with our listeners and subscribers and Africans at large as your parting shots.
Speaker 1:I'd reference my T-shirt.
Speaker 3:Please turn around so that we capture what that says.
Speaker 1:Show me the data we have 100 cameras here.
Speaker 3:Or created, yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:Show me the data or create it, which it's a mindset of. If you're looking for a solution, yeah, okay, they can't see all of it, but it's fine. Yeah, show me the data I've created. If you're looking for a solution and you don't find it, you don't stop there. You build it if you really need the solution. So in the AI space, especially for Africa, there's always this notion that people share that oh, there are no data sets in Africa, Yet we have so many digital businesses that are creating so much data right.
Speaker 1:So we don't have a data problem, we have a data set creation problem. The data is hanging around you. You're just lazy enough. You don't want to be the one that creates it and shares it with other people or sell it to other people. Yeah, so it's just pushing people to have that mindset of if you don't find something, create it. Yeah, that would be my parting shot. Ah, very nice, very nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now for me actually the parting shot. Nowadays I make it an african proverb, and today we will take a can language, and you know they say so. War fee in our sun, kofaya yankee is that the right accent? I don't know, just reading the way I see it Okay, but it's translated and I like it. By the way, it is not a taboo to go back and fetch what you forgot. Yes, and for African brothers and sisters AI can help us record store, retrieve and use our culture.
Speaker 3:Because I feel like we have forgotten most of it. Some of our young guys don't see the use of it or they actually look down upon it. So I feel like that's very, very powerful when you talk and think about AI. So for our listeners, I think until next time. Michael Kemadio hosts, and this is Africa's Talking Podcast, in collaboration with Impact Masters Podcast, brought to you live here in Nairobi. Our guest today was Alfred Ongere, and Alfred, you can maybe tell our subscribers, our listeners, to subscribe. I don't know how you used to do when you used to do podcasts, but that's a good thing. Let's see if you forgot. It's been a minute. Let's hear from Alfred, please.
Speaker 1:Go ahead. Yeah, thank you guys for watching. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 3:Subscribe and watch our next episode comments like follow and say them persa that will be so kind of them. If you're listening, our podcast is available on all podcast channels, including iTunes radio, iheart radio, amazon music, google podcasts, apple podcasts, google podcasts. Itunes radio, iheartradio, amazon Music, google Podcasts, apple Podcasts, google Podcasts, spotify, nice, nice, nice Everywhere that you like listening to while you're driving. Having a road trip nowadays is a trend. People are having a road trip. You can listen to Nuggets of our geeky guys discussing different things. Until next time, thank you so much.
