Impact Masters Podcast
We focus on the tech ecosystem by creating and disseminating knowledge. We tell authentic stories, acknowledging and preserving history, embracing civilization, and encouraging technology and innovation. In all this, we point out the impact and the actionable points. At Impact Masters we are disrupting the status quo: Body, Mind, and Spirit.
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Impact Masters Podcast
#53 Impact Master Dennis Okangi: Fish, Freezers, and Funding A Tech Entrepreneur's Tale
What transforms a curious young boy from Likoni into a globally-recognized innovator creating life-changing solutions for fishing communities? In this captivating conversation, Dennis Okangi shares his remarkable journey from watching neighbors' TVs through windows to meeting world leaders and showcasing his innovation across continents.
Growing up as the only boy among five siblings in Mombasa's densely populated Likoni area, Dennis navigated the challenges of shared Swahili houses where multiple families coexist in close quarters with limited privacy and resources. These early experiences shaped his resilience and problem-solving mindset that would later define his entrepreneurial approach.
Dennis takes us through his educational journey – from earning a scholarship to Moi Forces Academy despite scoring below the typical threshold, to switching from an assigned zoology program to computer science at Rongo University. Along the way, he discovered his passion for hardware development through Science Congress competitions and mentorship at Swahili Box tech hub.
With refreshing candor, Dennis unpacks the failures of his first two business ventures, sharing painful lessons about equity distribution, investor relationships, and the importance of market validation. These experiences set the stage for the creation of Kuza Freezer – a revolutionary cold storage solution that's transforming the fish value chain in coastal Kenya.
By collaborating with local boat makers and embracing bottom-up design, Dennis cut production costs by 50% compared to imported alternatives. This approach not only makes the technology accessible to low-income fishing communities but also enables fishermen to preserve their catch longer and sell at fair market prices instead of at throwaway rates.
The impact of Dennis's innovation has earned him recognition across Africa and beyond, with acceleration programs taking him to India, Germany, Algeria, and South Africa. Yet he remains focused on the immense untapped potential within East Africa before expanding further.
Dennis leaves us with powerful insights about entrepreneurship not being "for the faint-hearted" and the wisdom of building solutions by first understanding community problems. His journey reminds us that with resilience, community understanding, and locally-appropriate technology, we can create sustainable solutions that uplift entire communities.
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Thank you. You are hosts. This is Africa's Talking Podcast, in collaboration with Impact Masters Podcast, bringing you movers and shakers in tech, but this particular podcast we highlight hardware tech. We are still in the coastal region of Kenya, mombasa, and it's quite amazing to look at what is happening at the marine economy and what movers and shakers here are doing to empower the economy around here. But in the meantime, check out africastalkingcom. They provide you SSD, sms, airtime, mobile data, voice API solutions. When you think about communication and 2G last mile communication, africa Stalking empowers business and for developers. Our APIs are always up to date and ensuring that integration is easy. Check them out.
Speaker 2:So what do you think about marine economy? There are a couple of things that comes in mind, and one of those things is that how do fishermen and, among us, how people consume the coastal cuisine, if I may call it that, value chain processing and all that? So today we have an amazing guest that I'm going to introduce to you shortly. So today we have Denison Kangi, who is a passionate impact innovator and social entrepreneur committed to leveraging technology for creating a better world, and his core focus lies in developing and implementing technologies that drive positive transformations in both society and the environment. Dennis Okangi is a computer scientist and also considers himself as an electrical engineer. He's been an active community member. I think I met him back in 2016 or 2017, just immediately or just close to when he was graduating. Dennis, dennis, dennis, how are you?
Speaker 3:I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice to be here with you today. You know you told me Eight years down the line We'll have a sitting. When did I meet you? Is it 2016, 2017?
Speaker 3:Around 2016.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice, nice nice yeah and then he was trying to figure out what do I do with this knowledge I have?
Speaker 3:yeah yeah, you know that was the time of campus when you're still in college trying to understand how best you can apply the knowledge you gain in college to do something meaningful yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that is before even the college. I would love to know where did how best you can apply the knowledge you gained in college to do something meaningful? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Denny, before even the college. I would love to know where did it all start? Where did Denny start? Where were you born? How was it like?
Speaker 3:Well for me. I was born and raised here in Mombasa, even though I'm originally from Kisii. Yeah. Kisii. Yeah, I'm a Kisii, so I've been born and raised here in the coast region. I think growing up I've been mostly kind of having enough time interacting with people in the fish value chain. Yeah, so it's been quite around 15 years growing here in the coast region. I went to high school in Mombasa, moifos Academy. Yeah, then, from Moifos Academy, then I went to Prongo University in Canary.
Speaker 2:Coast. But before that, Dennis, which part specifically were? You born in Mombasa.
Speaker 3:Likoni.
Speaker 2:Likoni, yeah, and Likoni has some history. You know one part I've not gone or visited, like you know. Visit and see how the culture is in Likoni and I would love to know how is life there?
Speaker 3:I can say Likoni, it's a bit easy life. I think things there are a bit cheap. Even the population right now is quite growing, because in 2003, people were actually not really it was really not really densely populated, but if you go right now, the population is quite huge.
Speaker 2:I don't think we'll be able to find even a piece of land for you to Is that?
Speaker 3:good or bad In two ways. It might be good because now we have enough people in place, but also it would be bad because you know every time in a densely populated place, everything is there. Yeah, yeah so.
Speaker 2:So that means, there is enough food people are a bit happier.
Speaker 3:I can't say enough food, but what I can say is that, uh, because of the high population, things are also quite um, I can say quite affordable, the housing.
Speaker 2:How much is a house per month? Maybe say one bedroom.
Speaker 3:You know the houses there mostly are this Swahili culture thing. So you find you can find a house for about 8 to 10 thousand, or even 6 to 10 thousand, depending on the type of house. Is it like an open house about?
Speaker 2:8 to 10,000, or even 6 to 10,000, depending on the type of house.
Speaker 3:Is it like an? Open house yeah, open shared washrooms and stuff, this kind of lifestyle.
Speaker 2:So that's why you find it's more affordable to most people and in that culture now people would ask is there privacy?
Speaker 3:I can't say there's privacy, because I think if you're able to picture this swahili the, the swahili house, how they they're structured. Yeah, uh, I think they have been built in such a way that is to for people to be able to to spend less, especially on rental stuff, so you being able to share washrooms and bathrooms and stuff with maybe eight or four people in that kind of house setup. Yeah, that one privacy might be less because all the houses are kind of facing each other at some point.
Speaker 3:So it's quite. It's really not quite safe when it comes to privacy.
Speaker 2:Do you see kids learn things that they're not supposed to be learning at a young age?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what I can say, it's quite For us. I think during my time you will find it difficult when you have different households living in that kind of house Someone who's well-off and maybe you're just seeing adjacent to someone who is as a family, but they're really not well-off. So you can find that kind of experience how your kids feel when others are watching TV and you don't have TV and that kind of an environment. Yeah, so it's kind of a competitive environment whereby kids really go through a lot and learn a lot because they are always close to people with different lifestyles.
Speaker 3:And also is it a safe environment in terms of security. I can't recommend that. It's not as I said. People live in those environments not because that's the best environment, but that's the most affordable way to live. That's why most people want cheap housing and stuff. I think they have to move to this kind of rental spaces. I see.
Speaker 2:So how did you navigate? Because you spent maybe most of your primary school in that environment, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, my primary school life. Mostly we were in a rental. I think it's until 2004 and 2005 there, yeah, when my parents decided to purchase a piece of land to be able to set up our own small structure in licorne so I think after that time that's where things started changing a bit the lifestyle changed a bit, security changed a bit privacy you can fence, you are you can, yeah, you at least you can do most of your things in a private way, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think that's the time when we were able now to start living kind of our own family life, yeah, but previously living in that kind of a soil environment, soil housing culture it was really putting us under a lot of pressure, a lot of challenges, especially now. As I said, you cannot control who has to stay in that house. Different house people live with their own rules. There are people even drunkards, can stay there.
Speaker 3:The issue there is as long as we pay, you're also paying. So, this is the culture. You've rented this space. I've also rented near to you.
Speaker 2:So I can do whatever I want. So you don't choose your neighbor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's tough.
Speaker 2:And most of the people there are just I'll not say they are costarier. They're people who just migrate to coasts Finding a better life and it know it's like it's somewhere to start absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think most, most population there is not basically from the coast region. Yeah, it is it, it is quite. I can say it's quite populated people from other regions yeah, and then there's element of diversity.
Speaker 2:Do you do you think that diversity actually contributed to you know the highly bringing up, knowing how to interact with people trying to solve the problems that people are facing in day to day?
Speaker 3:Of course, One of the things is that being able to live in an environment whereby you're living with people from different geographical locations, different regions, it makes it easy for you to be able to learn different cultures, even to be able to understand how best you can interact with them, and that really, at some point, also creates that strong bond within the community. But if you're in an environment where you're only living with maybe one community and that is it, it becomes a challenge when you're moving to a different location meeting a new community.
Speaker 3:It gives you a tough time to be able to cop or to blend. In. Yeah but Lekoni culture, I think a lot of different people from different regions have come together, everybody living in their own culture and stuff. But yeah, I think also that one also makes it easy for people to know that, okay, we are all from different places and we are here for business or for other things. So it even makes it easy for people to coexist. Because, it's nobody there saying that you came to us.
Speaker 3:We all came here and we met and we are doing business, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you say sometimes it was a bit hard for those kids who have TV and the other ones who don't, or these other families having two meals. This other one has one meal. So which family were you? The one with the TV, or no, no, we never had TV.
Speaker 3:I can say there's a time we even used to it's interesting. So sometimes, when it may be but there's a time we even used to, it's interesting. So sometimes, when it may be news time and stuff you have to maybe stay at the window of your neighbors to be able to see because they have access to television and stuff. Probably the only thing you have is radio, so sometimes you have to go close to the window and watch news and sometimes you will find yourself here with your family members watching.
Speaker 3:TV no family member so that one was really creating. I can say the image is not good, but we really need to get up. They don't know what's going on, also for entertainment purposes. But that was the kind of challenges growing up and that's just one side of the problem but the other side of the problem, but the other side.
Speaker 3:The problem now will be if your family with young kids people want to go to other families and watch tv because you don't have or something, so that one as a family or as a father or a parent, it really poses a lot of a lot of challenge to you. It's either now you find a way of bringing that kind of thing to your house, if you have the ability, and if you don't have, you really have to worry a lot for your kid because you don't know whatever happens in that house, neighbor or something. Yeah, so that kind of culture, I think it has its own positives and negatives, but negatives I can say it's much there are more, because there is also child molestation and, you know, raping happening.
Speaker 2:Uh, your security? Where people get attacked and killed, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so you go to school. Which school did you go to there at uh, in likoni, is it?
Speaker 3:oh, my primary school was consulate catholic primary school. Yeah, I think it'sikoni I think it was just 300 meters from where I worked, From where you stay. Yeah so, yeah, so it was quite a very short walking distance yeah, and here you used to hiss it.
Speaker 2:You know You're the kid who everyone wants you to be. How was that experience?
Speaker 3:You know, in a family of five whereby you're the only boy in the house, I think that one really gave me a challenge.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're the only boy in five siblings.
Speaker 3:Yes, so that really gave me a challenge, even though at my younger age I couldn't really realize that, but growing up I had to realize that you see, at some point it's me, my dad, and then we have to watch out. So it's me my dad and then we have to watch out.
Speaker 2:Are you first born or I'm the second born? Second born you still look like a first born.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a bigger sister who yeah?
Speaker 2:Who checks on you?
Speaker 3:Who checks on me? Now? What's the age gap? I can say three years.
Speaker 2:Still, you know you and your dad. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so I think growing up it was easy for me from my primary school because it wasn't really that far, even though growing up in that low income background a lot of things were really kind of constraining my studies, yeah, as a young kid yeah, so yeah, like, what I can say is that our parents were not able to have that stable income that could be able to sustain you in school and also your siblings and the siblings yeah and sometimes you know you have to give priority to the ladies because as men we can easily cope with changes and stuff.
Speaker 3:So it was quite a tough environment, but we really tried our best. Our parents tried their best, in various dimensions, to ensure that we were in school.
Speaker 2:So did you ever miss a whole year, or maybe a few times, because you couldn't afford the fee and the siblings have to go to school?
Speaker 3:I can't say that. I think primary school. We were all in government school. It's a government school. So I can say things were not that quite difficult when it comes to schooling. The only challenge I think that was it's a government school. So I can say things were not that quite difficult when it comes to schooling.
Speaker 3:The only challenge I think that was there was things outside school. So how can a household of six people be sustained with probably a father who's a carpenter? So during that time things were quite tough and this really it was quite a struggle for my dad, Especially because I can say mostly he was kind of the breadwinner To ensuring all those things were put into place. But even though my mom also Into Into other businesses, she was a teacher.
Speaker 1:Primary school or high school, primary school. So even though she had that, passion of school or high school, primary school.
Speaker 3:So even though she had that passion of having her own school and stuff, but she used to teach in one of the schools, in Likoni now, does she have the school? Yeah, oh nice right now she's doing well with a small school, I think. I deal with. I can call. What do you call this grade stamp? Pp1 yeah, those kind of stuff. Tilt standard 3.
Speaker 2:So it's growing or it's growing. She started with the PP1.
Speaker 3:PP1 growing up yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's good. When you look at it, you're like man. Everything comes together eventually.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course for her. That was the vision she had because she her that was, that was the vision she had, because, uh, she, she was a teacher. Yeah, that's what she is she retired now or yeah. That's why she decided to have her own kind of um, create her own line of impact in terms of education and stuff and it's still in in likoni.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's amazing man like yeah it makes a lot of sense. So you, you, in this primary school, you know you have the siblings, you know maybe you missed a meal or two here, or maybe you want new uniform not coming as fast, or maybe you have to forego shoes.
Speaker 2:How is it for you to balance that? And you know, say what you know. The most important thing is just school and focus and say you know what, this is it. This is the only thing I need to make right. You know it is say you know what, this is it. This is the only thing I need to make right.
Speaker 3:You know it is interesting because in your primary school, from standard one to standard four, you really don't care. Even you don't realize that things are tough. You don't realize maybe you need another trowel or something, until maybe the teacher tells you that. But you're really in that comfort zone whereby it's you and your parents stuff. But it is from standard six, where by now things are changing. You know, even when you're growing up growing up, a lot of things change.
Speaker 2:You want to?
Speaker 3:yeah, exactly so that's the age may probably where you put a lot of pressure now to your parents telling them I need now to change, to have have new shoes new clothes. Yeah, but it was quite an environment where we could understand our parents, know the kind of struggle they are going through and just try to cope with it, Plus also now the kind of motivation they used to give us in terms of how the future could be bright if we could work hard during that time.
Speaker 3:Yeah so things could turn around. So that's one of the things that really kept us intact.
Speaker 2:And when you look at that, now that you are, you know I consider you now a grown-up and will get there you totally understand the struggle.
Speaker 3:I totally understand the struggle. Yeah, because for me I can say the age I'm in right now. I'm even now trying to say you know, even my dad used to tell me you know, right now, as a kid, you really don't see much but just grow up, you.
Speaker 4:I think the things you'll answer yourself yeah some things will come clear as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think, at this point of time, there's a lot of things which is which are coming out clear yeah my dad wasn't.
Speaker 2:Was was struggling but for a reason. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, things needed to be in order. Yes, so at this point of time now, that's when now you see what the parents were going through during that time. Yeah. And you really don't want to have that kind of environment. That's why you really have to think twice when you're making kind of decisions and stuff, yeah, so yeah, when you're making kind of decisions and stuff, so yeah, so I think they really tried their best in nurturing us up and trying to make sure that we are the best of their versions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've turned out great. So in primary school did you really perform well, right?
Speaker 3:I can't say I performed poorly but, what I can say is that I really worked hard. But what I can say is that I really worked hard, but what I can say is that probably it's the environment, the challenging moments whereby you don't have access to electricity in your house and stuff. The only time you have a good time to study is probably in your school. But I can say primary school life, as I said, from standard one to level four.
Speaker 3:Kids just want to be kids and stuff so studying was really quite a challenging time, especially now when you're using pressure lamps and cross alarms to study.
Speaker 3:It was really not a good environment for someone, for a kid especially, to be able to have enough time for herself to study and be the best in school. But I can say I think bringing up of a child, especially when you have parents who really know the struggle and know what needs to be done for things to change, that's the kind of motivation we really had, because our father was really pushing us so much in terms of, like access to resources as little as they were, but we really saw.
Speaker 3:So his effort in terms of like him pushing us to be able to, to take the opportunity to learn, yeah, and that's why I can say that for me, I realized myself when I was 36. That's when I really started working hard. Yeah, that's when I came to my senses like, hey, I need to work hard because this is real.
Speaker 3:The challenge you're going through at home is real and if I continue this way, whoever is behind me are my sisters and the weather in front of me is still my sister. Yeah, so they reach a point. They're saying they have a big bro yeah so what will happen if the big bro and can't show up can't show up so that really gave me a real challenge and this really is what really pushed me into.
Speaker 3:I really need to, to get a good grade in kcp so that I can go to a better high school and a better university, so that I can change the lives of our parents and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So for me, it was more. It wasn't more of myself studying, it was more of me studying to Get out of this, To change the lifestyle we're living in. Yeah, so it was. I was doing it for our parents and something like that. Yeah, because you know that kind of experience whereby you see your parents struggle, yeah, and you're like, no, this can't proceed this way. Yeah, yeah. So I was actually having that kind of motivation Let me do this to change home, and that is it.
Speaker 2:Nice and you really turned out well for your class eight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my class actually got 325, which is really flying colors for me during that time. Which year was this? 2004. 2004, I think.
Speaker 2:That must be really. You outperformed yourself given the environment and the circumstances.
Speaker 3:I remember there was a time I was scoring 299 marks consecutive until I was like why 299? Why not 298? And I was like, hey, maybe this is what I'm going to get in KCP or something, but I really tried my best. Getting 325 wasn't a joke for me.
Speaker 2:I knew like you celebrated. How did you celebrate after getting the results?
Speaker 3:You know I didn't celebrate. What I can tell you is that I was really fighting to get a scholarship and what I can tell you is that during that time scholarships were really competitive Because I knew very well if I go to a high school that needs my parents to still go back to their pockets. I was missing out Because now I have sisters behind me. I also have another sister who is now in high school and I need to join high school and I already see the struggle. So for me I was like I really need to try to get a scholarship.
Speaker 2:And scholarship cutoff points were like 300?
Speaker 3:400. 400 months. During that time it's competitive. Then you see at some point scholarships. They are looking at people who are from not well of family background but, also doing well. Yeah, yeah. So there were so many who are doing well and they are also from not so well family background. Yeah, yeah. But the good thing is that before, during that time, my parents I think my father had that kind of.
Speaker 3:it was kind of of I cannot say it's a strategy, but he had connected me earlier to one of the scholarship uh, I guess organization, liconi, and we used I we used to attend a lot of the activities even before during my class six, seven, and through that kind of bondage and stuff we had developed a very serialized relationship in terms of like even working with those orphanage kids. They used to support having all those kind of activities together, without having in mind that these are the people who probably in the future could support me academically.
Speaker 3:But when I finished, when I got the results, it was really quite challenging for me because I couldn't get selected, because it was really competitive yeah I remember when I was, when I was in their team, when they were kind of shortlisting, one of the team member told me that this process is quite competitive and they couldn't be able to to have that kind of a gap from a lot of students who are 400, a lot of students who have 350 and above, who have been filtered now they come to me to 325. But I think they went back to their committee committee and say you know what? I think we have walked a very long journey with Dennis and we need to give him a chance.
Speaker 2:That's how you cut it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I surprised them tomorrow in the morning. They came and said you know what? Just take this scholarship Wow.
Speaker 2:What is the name of the scholarship organization?
Speaker 3:Hatua.
Speaker 2:Network and how many scholarship organizations are in Nikoni? For me I only know Hatua.
Speaker 3:I really don't know whether there is any other which is providing apart from it's just recent. Apart from now, banks providing these kind of new scholarships.
Speaker 2:So Atua has been there for a long, long time. You can imagine from now when I finished standard 8, that's the time when that's like 20 years now.
Speaker 3:Not 20 years.
Speaker 2:More than that.
Speaker 3:I think 18. Yeah, 15, 18. Okay, yeah, yeah, I during that time I think they they in lakoni. They they were mostly supporting students in lakoni who are from disadvantaged backgrounds but, also doing well, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:so for me I can say it was really big of luck. At the same time also having a good background with them, without knowing that this could lead to something else, really contributed a lot. So I think, yeah, of course, but their support, they gave it was really immense. And it was not just scholarship, there were quite a lot of things put together apart from just going to school.
Speaker 2:there's a lot of trainings a lot of yeah, yeah, trainings in what?
Speaker 3:one financial literacy there's a lot of training. It comes to uh, what can I say? Um, what can I say?
Speaker 2:Is there computer?
Speaker 3:studies. They also provided extra I can say other trainings like computer study skills while still in high school which was really adding value to whatever I was doing Actually, I can say, if it were not for their computer classes.
Speaker 2:You would not have done computer science. And how long did you do it?
Speaker 3:actually I did it. Uh, I did it immediately. I finished high school. That's when they enrolled me to a computer class ah, so you are with them throughout. So from my high school I never did any computer related thing. Okay, but once I finished high school, that gap period when you're waiting to join college.
Speaker 3:That's when I realized like I can do some packages here and there, learn a bit basic computing skills, but I never realized that that could really change me into like let me pursue something in IT, because whatever I was called for to do in college it wasn't IT.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, we are still in high school, so you get the scholarship. Which high school did you get invited?
Speaker 3:to. I was invited to join Moe Forces Academy.
Speaker 2:That is in Mombasa. Mombasa, yeah, and there's Moe Forces Academy in Akuru. Yes, is there another Moe Forces Academy in the country? Nairobi.
Speaker 3:Nairobi yeah.
Speaker 2:So you joined Moi Forces Academy in Mombasa. It's a prestigious school, yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't really remember whether I was really called to Moi Forces directly. I can't remember the school I was called to, but I remember through the scholarship. Is that how you got to Moifos? Yeah because now probably I had a good network, because they take a lot of their kids now to Moifos. So for me.
Speaker 2:I kind of got a connection to yeah, you're like put this 325 here.
Speaker 3:You can imagine now. So for me I think it was luck after luck. Sometimes I really don't call things luck. I think things also happen as a reason. Of course, because who knew probably, if it were not for those kind of activities I did before doing my KCPE, is what probably added value to me getting selected among the few so I can say all of those kind of blessings to realize the big dream that I really wished for. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you joined Moifoss Academy, Mombasa. It's boarding right, yeah, but it's not far away from home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was boarding. However, I started as a day scholar. Okay, did they have day school option?
Speaker 2:started as a day scholar. Okay, yeah, so they have this call option.
Speaker 3:They had a day school option. Yeah, and voting during that time yeah so I did. I did till, uh, form two. That's when now I had to again now paid for my body okay, yeah, it was just school fees for a day but realize that now we need more time in form to so that we can concentrate on studies more, have access to whatever we need, because now, you see, still in high school, we're still living that kind of Swahili setup. And what I'm telling you? Which is really quite challenging.
Speaker 3:And going back to study there. It was quite not a good environment, especially now when you're in high school. So having that opportunity now to remain in boarding yeah, it really gave us enough conducive environment for us to focus on studies.
Speaker 2:Yeah so when you you joined the day school, how was that journey for you? Do you still face the same challenge where you can't go in the evening and do some assignment or, you know, revise or check out some? You know what you have learned throughout the day. Does that present another challenge now in high school?
Speaker 3:No what I can tell you. My high school, I think I told you I realized myself from standard six. That's when I started kind of putting myself together and saying I need to do something for myself and for the people behind me. So in high school I happened to be selected as the assistant head boy in form two, and you see that now changed everything for me. From that time now I had a lot of opportunities, and then in high school I also started this what you call a science club. So for me the whole idea was how can I make maximum use of the school so that I'll be able to maximize the resources that are there? So from there I was able to participate in various competitions. We call them mathematics competitions science congress.
Speaker 3:So all of those things really gave me a lot of exposure in terms of projects coming up with, innovation and stuff and this really contributed a lot in terms of giving me a context of exposure in terms of projects coming up with innovation and stuff and this really contributed a lot in terms of giving me a context for environment in school. Yeah. Being a head boy, I think at some point. Being an assistant head boy at some point gave me also privileges Having good time in school, not really suffering a lot. What do?
Speaker 2:you mean.
Speaker 3:What I mean is that leave alone leave.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? What?
Speaker 3:I mean, is that leave alone Less duties? Less duties, sometimes Special food. No, special food was the main one, because now if you go to, if you go to the catering room, you don't queue lines.
Speaker 2:And sometimes you actually, you're the top layer always.
Speaker 3:Top layer. At the same time, you could even be served well. So that one was really, and sometimes you have meetings with the principal.
Speaker 2:So you can present your grievances first.
Speaker 3:You see, yeah, so there's quite a lot of opportunities and for me it really, even though I came to realize that still, it was going to cause a very big challenge on my side, why it was not actually reducing workload, it was really giving me a lot of responsibilities and I realized that I was really not going to have enough time for my school. You can imagine For your school work.
Speaker 3:Exactly, so you can imagine. Now I'm in school, I need to study. Then there's this science congress mathematics contest. I need to attend because they used to select people performing well in specific subjects that related to the competition. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So if it is mathematics contest, they select a few people who are doing well in mathematics yeah if it is science congress, they select people probably who have ideas that can be presented and that can sell well, and you wanted to participate in all these things I want to participate in all those things, plus, a head boy is always had at seat if there is a team going for a trip head boy must be there or if head boy is not available, they will send their deputy.
Speaker 3:Yes, if there is a student who want to travel, maybe they are going for an event somewhere. There is always that kind of you need to go with a student leader. But for me, I think during that time now, I really felt like I really had a huge gap in terms of like I need entertainment, I need to have this kind of trips for me. I think during that time now, I really felt like I really had a huge gap in terms of like I need entertainment, I need to have this kind of trips For me. They were luxurious so I really never wanted to miss. Again, I can say that in my form one and form two I was not really on top 10 list, but what I can say is that I also came to realize myself well in high school in form three.
Speaker 3:Form two somewhere there. That's when I realized time is moving. I don't have enough time for my schooling. So, even though the leadership role that I had in high school, I never dropped it. What I dropped was actually responsibilities. High school, I never dropped it. What I dropped was actually responsibilities. So I decided, like, let me just become probably a class representative. So I left that role to someone else. You see, every year you elect new staff. So I decided now to remain a class rep.
Speaker 3:You see, now a class rep. You can stay for longer. If probably the students like you and stuff, Then you're always a leader. So for me I really like that kind of leadership stuff because of also the opportunities were there yeah but I avoided bigger roles to also minimize responsibilities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So high school high school was quite was was quite interesting, especially for have being able to participate in those kind of opportunities. Having able to set up a science club in high school really gave me a lot of opportunities, even being given keys to science labs, laboratories, where we could be able to study at night and even probably do practicals as a club. So that really gave us a lot of, I can say, more room to learn, because we are there during class time as a class and also we can be there during club time as a club.
Speaker 3:So we had more time compared to other class members, so we could do a lot of research.
Speaker 2:Was there modernization or bullying in Form 1?
Speaker 3:In Form 1, yes there was bullying.
Speaker 2:How was that?
Speaker 3:I think that one. That's something you can't avoid. I was given five to buy bread. You see, sometimes you always have that time whereby you go for church, and the church was actually whereby sometimes you go outside the school. So sometimes someone can send you and it was just for fun, but people will just have to use that opportunity to bully you and stuff. So Form 1 is always rough for anybody. I don't think there's somebody who has ever what's your take on bullying and moralization?
Speaker 3:for me. I really took it positive because it really hardens you up in terms of like. It also makes you to be sharp and also yeah, and also tell someone that you really need to to know how to fight for your rights and stuff. But if you remain like that forever, I think it will reach a point whereby people have to fight for you.
Speaker 3:Even in situations whereby you really don't have to. But I think as a boy it was really important for me to face those kind of challenges during that time Because it kind of posed me to various experiences which also made me like to face those kind of challenges during that time. Yeah, because it kind of posed me to the various experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which also made me like to face reality and that this is how the world out here is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think for me. For me, I took it positive because I took it as entertainment. Sometimes you know that this is, this is a rite of passage, kind of like. You have to go through this process. It is part of high school like you have to be bullied. People will come. You will also experience. Tell them do for you something. I think, there is a time also try to bully someone, which is not good but I was like when I was in form 3.
Speaker 3:But now you know when you are a leader and you try to do something, you feel like this is bullying. But because I'm letting bad example yeah, but now I was doing it in that angle. Like you know, you're from one. You need to understand the environment so don't get surprised when you put in this kind of pressure, but for me it was more of entertainment. It wasn't like I'm taking advantage of someone, something.
Speaker 2:Yeah what did you do?
Speaker 3:no, I I think, uh, I didn't really. It's quite a cocktail of things which happens, and sometimes you can even send someone water like go get for me water downstairs, and that is it okay, yeah like you can send someone to pick for you something like he's not an employee, but you have to use that opportunity because just a month wash all my white shirts, yeah, yeah, and they should be milky white, if I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah that now is the harsh way of, yeah, of modernization, but now there is that one way of also training someone to be a good to be a good person like help me get water down there so it's kind of helping, but but telling someone to wash your clothes, I think that's a harsh way, but there are people who used to do that. Yeah, and sometimes they used to. They used to expose you to a problem which, if you don't do it, they'll expose you something. So you, you, just you end up not doing it. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's life. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So in form two, you just decide to be serious. Towards the end of your form two, what do you do different? You drop the duties. But what do you do different? Academically, do you revise more, do you spend more time doing preps?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what I can say is that coming up with those kind of science clubs and stuff, ah, that's when you started these clubs. Yeah, because now that one really gave me more opportunities to bring people closely who are top performers in our school. Yeah.
Speaker 3:To think of. Actually, the main idea for science club was to bring people who we could do something to go and represent high schools our high school during science congress competitions yeah but at some point that one really molded us to to become creative and also to expand our knowledge business yeah, do you think these were your innovation journey started? I think it's part of the cocktail of things yeah, and now?
Speaker 2:from this point, now even your grades started improving.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I think from then I started scoring B+, something I was not really scoring so much. Then I came to now top 10 when I was in my form 3. So all of the time I was in the top 3 list.
Speaker 3:Top 3 list I awarded during closing ceremonies, so at least that really came as another motivation. Being in top 10 is another opportunity for me to be able to also win awards and stuff, so I was really introduced to a wide range of things whereby you know that there is always a reward for hard work. There is also opportunities for taking leadership roles in various dimensions yeah yeah, so being in those kind of leadership, taking leadership positions, also being among the top performers in school yeah really gave us a lot of opportunities to yeah, it really made a life a bit favorable for us in high school.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, made life a bit favorable for us in high school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and did you have you know someone like were your school mixed or boys? It was mixed, mixed Very nice, very important. So in this mixed school, did you have a?
Speaker 3:girlfriend. You know, yeah, high school there's always those kind of I can say, during that time, of course everybody has to belong somewhere. That's the point. And in high school I think there's that kind of pressure. Yeah. I can say boyfriend-girlfriend thing in high school. It's always for fun. Nothing serious. People really don't know what to do about it much, but it's just always for like. You can't be, a boy at this age and at this level and you don't have a girlfriend.
Speaker 2:But the point there was not like having a girlfriend in the real sense, but just having someone people can say oh he's your boyfriend, yeah, but and pen pal and you can write each other letters yeah, there was the I think there was nothing serious boyfriend, girlfriend in high school.
Speaker 3:I think that is just. I can just it's part of.
Speaker 2:It is just a lifestyle people being, but they really don't know what to do about it yeah, yeah ah nice. Was it challenging or was it? Yeah, taking away from the whole thing of course.
Speaker 3:Of course it is challenging because you see now all those kind of pressures having people. Probably you have parents who are well off, you can just be a leader. But sometimes you can say that I have a girlfriend. But now people come in, students who have parents who are well off. That kind of pressure will always take away your girlfriend in high school.
Speaker 2:But even out here, that happens a lot.
Speaker 3:Yes, you see, that's what I was saying, that in high school, that's where you learn a lot of things, not just in high school, but throughout the academic lifestyle. A lot of things teach us a lot of lessons and that's where you learn, like, like, this is what happened in high school, this is what happens in this level.
Speaker 2:Probably, this is what will happen even after so I really need to strategize, because it's kind of a system yeah, was girlfriend taken away from you by the, the well-off students.
Speaker 3:I can't say the well-off, but I can just say that in high school people will always follow the flag. Where it swings, that's where they go and stuff. For me, I think it was swinging in my way during that time I was a student leader and everybody wants to be safe. But it reaches a point whereby you just feel like this is just strategic. People are not here for a lifetime thing, it's just strategic for survival, and that was it. You can just get friends who just want to survive in that environment.
Speaker 2:And when I think about it, especially when I was in high school, there's a guy who actually I'm not sure of exactly what transpired, but they came from another school and the rumors, let me say it was not confirmed, but they were girlfriend, boyfriend, but I don't know if both of them had HIV AIDS or HIV, I'm not sure. But for sure the lady it was. According to what we saw she had the HIV Right and it was shared that. You know at that point, that's when actually you know the education, counseling around HIV is rampant. I don't know if your school used to do this, because sometimes if you get a girlfriend, boyfriend, it's all about things, it's a healthy thing, but it should be Underrated in a way that it's more Educative to those who are engaged. I don't know for you If you guys had that opportunity, because I was in a mixed school before I moved to a boys school and relationships Were really that serious. People used to take them serious to an extent that a lot of things used to happen.
Speaker 2:And you see, now it can go even to an extreme where someone contracts some you know and you can even be victimized or isolated from. Because I didn't like what I saw, how those two were treated, either it is true or not. I did not like how they were treated because stigma actually is more than a disease. If you're stigmatized for something. It's crazy. Did these things happen?
Speaker 3:in Mufos. What I can tell you is that you see Mufos. During that time it was both boarding and day school. So, there are people getting experience as day scholars. There are people getting different experience as being in? Boarding. But I think what was happening in high school is that people they could bring in people expertise people in different, in counseling people in various, who could talk to girls, who could talk to boys, and advise them accordingly.
Speaker 2:So I think these are some of the things which was really reducing down the heat, because all these are adolescents guys and you know a lot is changing in their body and you know there's feelings, there are, you know chemistry is happening and it's something I think maybe we can also even talk about it because now, coming to think of it, it's not something you're really able to control and it's a natural process. So all you need is education around it, sensitization around it, and I think even for us as entrepreneurs and people in the ecosystem, when we engage the next generation, it's good. Actually, we share this openly and say it's okay, whatever is happening, just don't mess around. Or if you mess around, these are the repercussions.
Speaker 2:Just be aware, so that someone is well aware. So you finish your Form 4 and you do your KCSE. Yes, how was it? Was it easy peasy, now that you are top 3?
Speaker 3:Well, I, okay, I can say it wasn't that really tough yeah.
Speaker 2:You prepared for 3 years, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think KCPE. We always know that KCPE Is always a little bit easier, yeah, than other exams.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, so First timer to say that in high school how you perform.
Speaker 3:You will always know that KCP will be 20% easier depending on how you perform. So if you perform poorly, just know you'll increase with a very small margin. But if you're really a good performer, you will be able to increase your performance and that's really that's the kind of gauge that we used. So someone who is getting an A will always try his own best because KCPE. He might get something better if you put more effort. But if you have a D, there's no KCPE.
Speaker 2:You won't do much better what is the reasoning around this?
Speaker 3:I really don't know, but I just know probably these final exams, people who are setting these exams are always for me, for my feelings, they are always considerate of all regions, people where they are coming from, to make sure the exam is not really going to affect people who don't have access to better. I don't know. So they try to. I feel like the opposite is true.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but they really try at some point.
Speaker 3:They try to make exam a bit friendly to everybody. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like sometimes these final exams, they are at some point a bit easier.
Speaker 2:For the smart ones.
Speaker 3:So for me you see I used to get a B+, but I got an A-. It was actually yeah, we can say you got an A because I missed one point.
Speaker 2:I had a B+ of 73. A strong B+.
Speaker 3:But you see, that means I've always been getting a B+, but weak ones. But I got a B+, a strong one, which I can say for me it was kind of an A for me. Were you aiming for A yes that's what I was aiming for, because I knew it was going to be a bit easier, but it was. It went. It became a bit easier, but not was it went, it became a bit easier, but not for the grade For the math, which still yeah.
Speaker 3:It was. It was really. You know it's better you get a weak A minus. It's better you get a weak B plus Than get a strong B plus. Instead of getting a weak, a minus. I don't know whether you get that. I hear you, yeah, so for me I really felt bad, because it was just one mark away from A so I really felt like I should go for a remarking or something, so that at least I get to the A-.
Speaker 2:Do you know? By the way, last year a lot of parents complained how the exam was marked. I don't know if you saw that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They felt like it's not fair. And also, for some reason, people felt like people could have performed. No one said people could have performed poorly. Everyone was saying they could have performed better.
Speaker 3:What is funny is that when people ask for a remark and they get better grades, so you know that raises a lot of questions.
Speaker 2:Oh, there was a remark that happened, Like for my yeah, for my sister it got around 350 something 370, something that is.
Speaker 3:KCP, kcp. Then after remark it got 380 something. The question comes in like so where's the problem? Where should the results keep changing?
Speaker 2:No one who gets lower marks after Remark. I don't know, but we never filed for that we never, filed for that.
Speaker 3:It's kind of around two things was done and new results were released and different people with different, better marks, and that's why the question now people keep raising questions like what? Would be the issue. Yeah, yeah, where is the gap?
Speaker 2:does it mean people want to trust? I mean the system has to be trusted in some way, because now, if, if people can't trust what actually gives you several, yeah, it's really unfortunate yeah, because my sister has never scored below 400.
Speaker 3:Oh, so when you get those kind of marks, then they are changing. Now again. So you always feel like probably. I still have a 400. So maybe something is missing again somewhere.
Speaker 2:Are your sisters taking CBC?
Speaker 3:No, I think my smaller sister is the last one.
Speaker 2:But no CBC, no CBC. They are in high school right now.
Speaker 3:Right now they are in high school. Yeah. I actually joined high school this year.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I wanted to ask you about, now that you have sisters or brothers who are in CBC, the comparison of the two education systems.
Speaker 3:Yeah, unfortunately our younger sister is the one who kind of finished the CBC thing.
Speaker 2:So you'll be all eight for four encompassed family, yeah so you get your strong b plus, which is a weak, a minus for now I can say I got a week every night.
Speaker 3:So it was that's what I really I was really aiming for.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, even you can consider yourself a material, but it's not. You know what. What matters is that you know what you learned. You are more educated, you are more learned and you are using that to actually make a change. That's the most important thing and Jab calls you to Rongo University.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had applied for more universities, but I think probably they usually see what is closer to whatever you choose. So I was taken to Rongo University, which was now a sub-sequence, a senior college for more universities.
Speaker 2:Was it still Computer Science for more universities? No Zoology, why?
Speaker 3:Zoology. I was called. That's the course. I was called to perform Zoology. You're laughing the same way my father was laughing. See, the question there was when can we get a job for zoology?
Speaker 2:No, wait a minute, what?
Speaker 3:is zoology, study of animals.
Speaker 2:The guys who man the zoo, or Animals.
Speaker 3:So I was going to study animals Probably work at a zoo somewhere or maybe work in a museum.
Speaker 2:These guys for KWS, kenya Wildlife Services. Yeah. What did you select at Moi?
Speaker 3:A lot of fancy stuff.
Speaker 2:Like medicine.
Speaker 3:Skyrocket things, but you know, I wanted something to do with engineering.
Speaker 2:Oh, electrical.
Speaker 3:Those kind of things which are for people with A's and stuff. Not weak A-minus, so yeah. So those people were lenient enough to take me something closer to where I wanted to go, but maybe they thought I didn't like sciences.
Speaker 2:But that was really far. I haven't moved away from zoology, yes.
Speaker 3:Plus again, I think probably they checked my high school stuff. Nothing to do with the computer was there. Probably this guy was just business history. You didn't do physics, I did physics.
Speaker 1:You did physics, I did physics by the way, no, no, I did physics, you did chemistry. I did chemistry, you did math.
Speaker 3:I did all those, I think maybe they checked something else.
Speaker 2:The B plus.
Speaker 3:Physics, chemistry all those were A's, but now probably something happens in English oh, english was not, I think.
Speaker 2:English is what probably needed to give me an a minus. No, I got, I think I got a c plus yeah, okay, x really I actually performed I think in general they don't check language language much as long as it's above c plus okay for job. Maybe they might, because if you get oas and maybe get one B or B+, of course it will never be an A.
Speaker 3:But why Zulogy? You see, that's really raised a lot of questions Also it depends how people perform that year.
Speaker 2:Because if the cut-off point is this they have taken enough for that quarter. And then also where you are located. You see, if you're in the Garisa and you get strong B+, you might even do medicine In Garisa. Yes, you do, because there are some places where for sure you know, this environment is harsh.
Speaker 3:Why should, but why can't they take us to Garisa to do our course of choice?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure. But you see, think of it this way and it's good you're having this conversation and maybe one of these days I might roast someone from now. It's not called JAB, but there's another organization Cossips, yeah, cossips, you hear now it's crazy man.
Speaker 2:So one of the things, and I didn't know this, even me I had some weird question around why, why? Why this around? Why why why this? But think of it, where you need every religion to have a doctor or an engineer or you know all this even a zoology guy yeah, so you need to divide those opportunities equally, so that you don't have doctors coming off from nyali or from ilikoni or from kisauni yeah, so that's present a challenge.
Speaker 2:That what if these guys are not willing to relocate? Alright. Or if you send some of these guys in some places, it will not be where they're used to, right. But if someone is from Mandera or Wajia, they're more familiar with the problems in that region. So if they become a doctor when you set up an hospital there, the chances of them running this successfully is high. Yeah, you get that doctor when you set up an hospital there the chances of them running this successfully is high.
Speaker 2:Do you get that? I get it. So it's a matter of that, and I think it was passed in the Parliament or Constitution Even way before there used to be a quota system. So, as much as you're taking years for medicine, consider marginalized communities, which actually maybe someone attends school wherever they can, or maybe from midday and comparing to someone who actually maybe is in the boarding school or in the private school.
Speaker 2:So there's some logic around it and I think it's supported by science and the law of the country to ensure that it's all balanced. The same way you said you got 325 but the scholarship was offered for 400 guys. But maybe even when these guys were convinced they realized, oh, this chief, with all the challenges, he could manage 325. But he has been getting 299. You get those. So if we give this guy an opportunity, there's some potential. And you see, maybe most of the time they were right, 100%, considering what you're doing right now. So I think that's the basis of that, but I've just broken it down. But I'm sure there are even laws that support the quarter system. Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a policy investor schedules that come with it, so you get Zuluch. That was Jab right yeah At Rongo. Rongo is in the border of Tanzania and Kenya or towards the border.
Speaker 3:I think it's between Kisii and Migori.
Speaker 2:But that's all the way. Yeah, I've never been to Rongo, I just hear people.
Speaker 3:The good thing is, it also took me closer to where we stay. So it wasn't that really bad.
Speaker 2:And when you got there, did you do zoology, maybe at least for a year, or how did you end up doing computer science?
Speaker 3:I think during our first term our first semester we had that kind of room. Do you want to change? Do you want to change?
Speaker 3:Do you probably want to change a course or something? Yeah, and I really rushed very fast to see where there is an opportunity. Yeah. So for me, when I saw there was opportunity, there was a vacancy space for computer science and having had that kind of background, studied some few computer packages during my gap year period I really thought probably this is something I can scale with. I can try to test it out yeah because it was not much into.
Speaker 3:There is market out there yeah but it was much of like it was interesting. I think the package thing was really interesting. If this is what I'm coming to expand here probably it could lead something yeah yeah, but it's from through that now being able to change the course and getting to experience a lot of things there.
Speaker 3:that's when I also but what I can tell you that one of the things also which motivated me to change to computer science is that still during the gap year period, that's when I got linked to swahili books. That still during the Gapier period, that's when I got linked to Swahili Box by Hatua. Okay, because Hatua realized now this student has passion in, he has done packages, he's interested into tech stuff, why can't we link him to a tech company in Mombasa? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's why I got linked to Swahili Box. Yes, yeah. And then now the, the passion for tech, also grew up again so at this point swahili box had uh started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which year was this?
Speaker 3:in 2000 is it 20.
Speaker 2:I can't get it 2008 there I think 2010 there, when I was almost finished finishing high school, yeah yeah, so, uh, you joined a soil box. What did you do at soil box? Do you do coding, uh programming?
Speaker 3:yes, yes, I, I did a bit of coding, but mostly on iot, iot, iot.
Speaker 2:I was mostly into iot, ah, into hardware hardware and I know for his computer science you don't do so much other IoT. I was mostly into IoT Hardware and I know for computer science you don't do so much until you do semiconductor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you see, but now the kind of IoT we were doing there during that time, before I had much skills in university, it was quite a plug and play thing. It wasn't much in-depth in terms of like building complex IoT stuff. So it was quite easy to grasp with the little information I was getting, with the little knowledge that I had. But once I started doing computer science in college I was able now to connect theory and hardware and see how things match.
Speaker 2:So were you doing this every time you were on holiday or, after now, going to Rongo.
Speaker 3:You spent four years doing computer science Every time I was having a holiday from the university. I went to Soilbox Even though still during the when, still in college, we could be able to get events organized and we could be invited. So for me I had those kind of opportunities while in university. Ah, interesting.
Speaker 2:And that means now. That's when we met. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think you had just graduated or you were in your final years, and you're a cohort of guys who are doing an amazing, amazing job in the ecosystem and in the world. If I remember about it, it's just that cold that I mean. I'm so. I'm so happy that you're sitting here today and for me, I met you in 2017. Um, so, at this point, I'm assuming that maybe you are almost completing, but how was your university life in Rongo? Because I know Rongo is like a remote town. I don't know remote place.
Speaker 3:Well, what I can tell you is that life in campus was, I can say, for me it wasn't that really tough, because it was just tough in its own way Because of the environment set up, but because, you see, still, I had the scholarship From high school to university and now you have help.
Speaker 2:Again, there was help.
Speaker 3:You see, now, then you are living like a king. So then, now, to make even matter better, is that I there's an innovation I did while at Swahili Box.
Speaker 2:Which was paying?
Speaker 3:Not which was paying, which now I used as a university project to represent the university in exhibitions and stuff. So the university was really into the innovation. In my first year in university. I started now representing Rongo University in various exhibitions with innovation okay it was.
Speaker 3:I think I built a, an agricultural, uh, a greenhouse monitoring solution, iot based, yeah, greenhouse monitoring solution and stuff yeah uh, even though after that I came and advanced to a new technology which was kind of an automated security system based on IoT. But all these solutions I was building something to represent the university. I was not thinking business-wise. This is something I can make a business with For me. I just want to take that advantage of. I will get opportunities, I'll get networks, because through that I was even able to get payment from the university to build the innovation better so that I can present something tangible outside there, and also all those kind of facilitations also adding up to a better living style in university.
Speaker 2:So it was really helping yeah you didn't get tempted to marry sometime in the university, you can marry temporarily for four years. That is natural, that's always there. You married in the first year until fourth year.
Speaker 3:I can't say I'm married, but I can say you're always engaged in university, yeah, like of course the pressure starts still in high school, so you already have exposure to this kind of environment Then when you go to college now, things even get more immense, because now that's a free zone, a freestyle zone.
Speaker 3:It's you against the world now to see how you manage yourself and stuff. But all those opportunities really contributed a lot in terms of having a simplified environment whereby I really don't have much stress when it comes to what to eat. Yeah, but it was quite intense in terms of how do I manage all these things. I have all these opportunities at hand. They are good for me in the future. Still, I have all these courses I need to do. I have all these projects for course related I need to do so. I remember sometimes there's a time I almost missed an exam because of I went for a project somewhere. You see, so even though it was related, it was best for the university. But at some point I realized that I was really not preparing myself well for the exams. So until a point where I felt like I was almost going to kind of taking another exam and stuff.
Speaker 3:Supplementary yeah, so managing all these things was really quite tough. So, managing all these things was really quite tough. Even though for me from the second year I realized university is good to prepare you theoretically and stuff. But, whatever you do outside, their hands-on really counts, Because that's what was paying me during that time. It is the hands-on things that I used to do which I really never acquired it in high school. You're not tempted to drop out of school, I know, probably if I was a politician, maybe, why?
Speaker 2:Why politician?
Speaker 3:Because I think probably the kind of opportunities they get is way more better. But I never. I was not really interested into politics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Politician, like in school politician.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ah, politician like in school Politics. Yeah, school politics, university politics For them. I think they really don't want to graduate, they really want to stay In the school Until maybe you get a better opportunity, which is way ahead of university, because there's a lot of opportunities I think this per diem stuff Going to represent university You're given 10k for two days and you're still in high school university. I think that really meant a lot. If you're going for five days, it's almost 50k and stuff. So you see, sometimes you really feel like.
Speaker 3:I need to focus more on the projects now, because this is a big thing than studies. But at some point you realize that this is just for some time in university. This is what it will mean for a lifetime. So I really find a way of balancing the two.
Speaker 2:So when you just focused, you reduced the projects or you just balanced the two.
Speaker 3:What I did is that I really never reduced in terms of like I just reduced the number of engagements I had. Yeah. Even though sometimes I could just let them choose someone else for the exhibition. Even though sometimes you find that it was a push from the universe that we need this innovation and this and that and Ongkang.
Speaker 2:Dennis is the only one who can deliver.
Speaker 3:I was among the few people who had presentable projects. I can call it presentable projects. Yeah, everybody had a software thing that you can present, which is really common, and stuff. But when people see something moving a hardware you see hardware. People are always attracted to a hardware. So it was really selling much. A hardware, you see hardware. People are always attracted to a hardware, so it was really selling much. And even having to having in mind that it was also an innovation on agriculture, it was really taking me to a lot of agriculture showgrounds and stuff. So any agriculture related showground. They needed something related to agriculture and that's probably what was available yeah, you know what you remind me there was.
Speaker 2:This time I did a science congress project yeah a colleague of mine who is a mathematic genius in high school from the northern part of of the country. Actually, I met him the other day after talking about him in one of the podcasts. Actually, I met him the other day after talking about him in one of the podcasts.
Speaker 2:This guy was just a mathematics genius for some reason and I convinced him for some. You know he was my deskie, so I convinced him why we should be doing this project, because the school itself never participated in Science Congress so we had to prove the project really deserves the attention of us, even getting facility to go to the Science Congress and one of the judges actually became our patron, our champion, to get things done. And we went to Idgerton I think it's called what nowadays Chuka University, Used to be Idgerton Constituent College then, and actually we impressed the Science Congress judges because there were colleges there.
Speaker 2:So they said, given how sophisticated this solution is, you'll have an opportunity to represent us at the showground. And we got an invitation. So my mathematics fella hearing that will go and sleep in another school that you know, rather than getting paid for a nice hotel and stuff. He was even before they close up on a lot of convincing. I wasn't that excited and you know it was just reserved and stuff. So we said okay, I'll represent.
Speaker 2:So I went there and it was a bit tricky. I don't know if there's funding that was given, because I'm sure there's some partnership or form, but how you know, we used to. If you go to school, you eat the food from that school instead of you know, because you see, now here you're representing your school away from where you stay and I'm sure you pay activity fees that should take care of you, and the school I was in didn't have that much activities. But the progression that we did was really, really amazing, because even where we got the stand was just next to Chuka, with current Chuka University, which was Chuka Indian Student College. And at that point that's when I realized it's crazy man like you're in high school, you're in Form 3, you're here just next to the university representing the same audience.
Speaker 2:And that's the first time actually I realized age is just a number somewhere. If you put in work, even if you're five years, seven years, ten years, you could go places by what you built. And guess what you had built? Uh, an hardware, a diagnostic hardware diagnosing four diseases, but using digital circuits to diagnose.
Speaker 2:and we had this board like the one, like okay, this is not a board, but it looked almost like this. And then we had different bulbs malaria, different bulbs, malaria, cholera, I don't know four diseases, typhoid and whatever. And then we had similar symptoms aligned. So if the circuit connected maybe headache, diarrhea, vomiting for sure it gave an indication on maybe malaria you can see how simple it is. But you see, if you have a breadboard or circuitry board, you can diagnose all the diseases at a go and I think the hardware is getting there eventually. But even so, the software is getting there faster. Look at your GPT. You just ask some information and then it can guide you. But the point was not to replace the doctors, just to fast track the process. So for me, by then I just wanted to go to Science Congress to be honest.
Speaker 2:And I found that something that actually could make me win. Until at that level, I could go to the showground and show it. But now that we're talking about Science Congress, I think there's a lot of innovation that could actually contribute. The modern day innovation, uh, they just need more, you know, more support, more guidance and people collaborating. Because you have so many chemistry, you know, uh, experiment. We have so many biology experiments that you know, uh, able minds present, but they just end up at the national level. That's it. Yeah, I thought I should share that for my science congress?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. And that project actually I translated in my second year, invested in a project using software and I got a very good, good grade, the best you could get in the university. Good, good trade, the best you could get in the university.
Speaker 3:So, at the end of the day, did you leave the university? Because, for me, one of the challenges I had was I never wanted to get this kind of innovation that I was doing in university to my fourth year. I had to change it to a different innovation Because it was going to be a university project, because you see, and you cannot monetize it outside.
Speaker 3:So, I decided to kill it at some point do something else as a project now because that's the kind of strategy I did yeah, I had two separate projects at the university.
Speaker 2:It's just that I felt like, you know, I got my first laptop second year, second semester, when you need to deliver projects, so I needed to deliver it really quick when you were in high school, in college, in university.
Speaker 3:You've said that you'd marry me a colleague who was left by his girlfriend to a guy who had a laptop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is so petty For me. Actually it was because of resource challenge and I know so many guys who are in the university and just you can only afford maybe statutory fee, that's it. And you wait just for help loan If that doesn't come through man your school, these people okay, maybe nowadays people are not struggling that much, but I believe there are people who actually were still figuring out if my kid passes.
Speaker 2:You know there are parents who actually are afraid of their kid passing to go to the university because they don't know how, what they're gonna tell them, how they're gonna take them there. They just believe something will happen right.
Speaker 2:So, and I think if we really want to change, you know africa's at large we need actually to have a strategy like how do we, under our brilliant mind, how do we support and I think you can be a champion of this now that at least you have seen when you shake presidents and whether you are seated with someone who shakes a president's hand like nothing is happening.
Speaker 2:You have met some guys from the UN. You have met some who is who in the world, and we'll talk about that a bit. It needs a proper strategy and then we'll be able to celebrate and see the fruition of some of these innovations. So it's very important to know that. So, chief, you finish your university. So it's very important to know that. So, chief, you finish your university. Present your final year project. What was it about the one that you did present?
Speaker 3:for my final year project. I've even forgotten what I presented, because I changed to a software. It was a voting system. Yeah, tell me about it. It was a voting system.
Speaker 2:Tell me about it. I also did the voting system. Was it for circles?
Speaker 3:for IBC or for no university voting system.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because, you see, even though that's something I actually Before finalizing that innovation, it was supposed to be tested in the university for the election and there was quite a lot of commotions, even from student leaders. They just told me if that innovation is going to be used, as a voting system. It will come for you. And that's really what scared me most, because you know when students in college or university tells you that kind of a threat, it will happen.
Speaker 2:That's what will happen. They can see it through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because if you are waked up during the midnight to go for a strike, you see by just students and that happened. What can happen if student leaders won't give you that kind of warning? For me, I decided like no, this is just for my academics it's not to be implemented or done something. Yeah, so it was basically a voting system based on USSD. At the same time, we had this dashboard where people could stream live, real life streams of volts, because now people are fighting on transparency, so which uses, uses.
Speaker 2:Did you use?
Speaker 3:during the time I used africa's talking africa, yes that's the only one which is available that's amazing. Plus you see, having a background in PHP during that time basic PHP, vanilla, I think it made it made work easy for me to just prototype and come up with something, because basically an API thing and being able to make something people could test and actually the voting was done via sandbox.
Speaker 3:It was like a test platform where people can just use a test platform to access the US state but because of its functionality and people having to also view votes in real time when you already have a database. Having to also view votes in real time when you already have a database with photos of the candidates and everybody who is voting. It's anonymous, but still people are able to see already who is going to win or something.
Speaker 2:In real time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's the kind of idea that I decided like this can be a university project, even though I knew it's almost 99.9% hard to be implemented in universities no.
Speaker 2:I hear you, kaka, I hear you. I went all the way. I'll say, like you know, I briefly worked for IEBC when they were taking their biometrics.
Speaker 2:You know, right now the IEBC uses biometrics. You know, right now the ibc uses biometric to verify the photos. So I was, I was part of the team, the initial team that actually was helping them with the computing around that yeah, for around three months. Of course, you know they got the system I don't know from france or something, but of course it adds a lot of bugs. Know from france or something, but of course it adds a lot of bugs needed to be patched.
Speaker 2:No, so I did that at scale for at least one constituency I would say, um, and ideally I was supposed to be a supervisor, but when they they, I don't know what they are called the guys who add the constituency and the head.
Speaker 2:You know how IBC works is that they have like three, four employees in every constituency that are permanent employed. So you'll find them there after all, these other guys temporarily who work for IBC, which is like graduates, maybe from four levers, who work during election or when they want more workforce. So when this head of that constituency realized what I'm doing in schools computer science and that's when they're trying to do biometrics they promoted me a bit to help them with the patching so that they don't keep going to Likoni Road in Nairobi to get the work done. And you know I got a good package. I was happy.
Speaker 2:So this actually idea gave me like why the hell do you need all these so many computers?
Speaker 2:just to do a simple thing like election. When you think about it, if we're really honest that we want to implement elections, it should be a two-hour affair and you-hour affair, and you know your president, you know your, your County. I hope these guys will all come. You know your governor, you know all these. I hope they will not come for me, but it should be a two-hour affair, very fair, very open. If there's any repeat or tie, you can do it again two hours and you're good, as simple as that and actually can be easier, as your ssd can be, as sms can be easy, as voice yeah, simple such a way that if you can't vote using your hands, you can actually vote using your voice but you see, now still, people will always create stories like how sure, sure are you?
Speaker 3:everybody has a feature phone.
Speaker 2:Regardless if they don't. You can have centers where you can access these resources. But ideally, if we really wanted it to work, it would work. It's just that we don't want it to work. And when I was building this system for my fourth year project, my supervisor told me bluntly that this is yes, it's noble, it's good, I would love to see it, but it won't fly. The reason it won't fly is because, when you are building any system, it's not because it can be built, it is because can it be used? And I got it.
Speaker 2:So he said if you're really ambitious, build it for circles, build it for, you know, maybe school voting system, yani, build it on a small scale. So this is what I did. So actually I built it for still normal voting, but at manageable scale. Okay, and it was really impressive. So I hear you when you say the leaders at the school level also are worried, because sometimes people who become leaders don't necessarily that everyone voted for them. Maybe they found their way out, maybe, you know, something happened along the way, but I would say there's a gap there that actually could be filled.
Speaker 2:And now, even with AI, imagine, time is catching up with the people's way of doing things very fast. Because now, if you add AI in those three modules I mentioned, it becomes much, much easier Because there's voice recognition, there's voice to text. All these, when you combine them, it's a receiver for success absolutely yeah so that's my experience with voting system, but ideally, um the thing that, uh, I would like I would have to know did these projects have the purpose of passing the exam that you built?
Speaker 3:of course it was accepted as a final year project.
Speaker 3:Yes, so I passed that so it did, it did its work which means like uh, for the for the sake of the university examination and passing the mark. I think that one, it's it. I fly with, I scored with flying colors and uh, that was. But the challenge was I just did it for the exam. I took a lot of time building it and stuff. Just showcase to supervisors that this is what I've done and yeah, but it's really painful when you make something that can't be scaled. So that's the only I can say is there was the only painful, painful part. Probably. I thought of maybe just putting somewhere open source now for people to deal with it.
Speaker 3:At least I can say I did something meaningful.
Speaker 2:So it's an open source project right now.
Speaker 3:I wanted to do it but I decided to put it private for some reasons, but probably, maybe in the future I'll release it open source.
Speaker 2:It's among many projects I did in campus, but yeah yeah, maybe open source, maybe you can contribute and see what turns out from it. Yeah, now you finish your undergrad yes and you come to Swahili box fully yeah, when was? That when we met, or I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah around 2017 right come to.
Speaker 2:Swahili Box fully. That's when we met, I'm not sure Around 2017, right, I graduated in 2018.
Speaker 3:Okay, you were at some few semesters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we met.
Speaker 3:I met you probably when I'm almost.
Speaker 2:And you were outstanding, actually, remember we met at Kamara Centre. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Where Japheth was. Daniel, I think that whole big team you guys are making it.
Speaker 2:Actually most of you are made it. I don't know some of you are there, but majority of you are not yeah, I think Swahili Box has that kind of a blessing.
Speaker 3:I think almost, if not 199% of of the people have worked that road through soil box and they really have a story to tell does it still exist? Soil box yes, because up to date for me, I I meet with my mentors. I still call them my mentors right now because, yeah, uh, we meet, we meet with them and and probably it's more an advisory partner for my business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they need to be proactive to some extent and revive their whole process. Yeah, but that's a conversation that could be had in different quarters.
Speaker 3:So you come out here and now you start building hardware seriously, seriously, for money yeah, um, you know, sometimes it's you never know where what will will sell out there, so you just have to. I started by first of all freelancing, trying to build solutions for people and stuff. Yeah, yeah, but I realized that was not really going to, was really not really my thing, because I don't want to be to be doing different projects. Every now and then, Every now and then.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I just wanted to build something, then scale something, yeah, then grow with it, yeah, yeah. I think that's where my passion was mostly there. Yeah. Yeah, so, yeah. So I've been really working on various projects, testing them out and see what the market says. Yeah. Even though when starting up, I started making things without that. We call it the top-down approach. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which was really not working out at the end of the day. Yeah, because you build a solution, then you go to look for a market and find people who can buy it and you get feedback. Don't build this thing now. Do something else. So you're really wasting a lot of time building a solution. Then look for people to buy into your idea and it's really not working out.
Speaker 3:So I have a lot of banked projects which I did top down and, after realizing that this is really not the way to do, actually to build a project to build a business now I decided to do a reverse way of doing things now, first of all, listen to the people sing fast and what's happening, then see what can be done to bridge that gap, because now people already have a problem and they really want a solution. So if you present a solution, they'll be like yeah, of course, this is what you're experiencing, I can buy into it here. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, so I never had that kind of knowledge before. I think I can say I acquired it through a lot of interaction, a lot of feedback from people, and that's how I came to realize like it's not always just about building solutions, because you say it. Sometimes. You can build solutions, but are people really willing to use those solutions?
Speaker 3:because, if there's no use for the solution, then you're just making something fancy for nothing yeah yeah, so that's why I decided like there are so many solutions to be made, but if people are not willing to buy into it, yeah, then there's no need to waste time, true?
Speaker 2:true, yeah. So at what point did you now build kuza?
Speaker 3:sorry, so kuza I didooza after two failed projects failed business. Number one failed businesses so the first business was I called it. The company was called Nupola Technologies, which I had built, and it was mostly dealing with GSM based GSM based trucking systems for cars. I cannot term the solution, the business, I cannot say the project failed or the innovation failed, but I can rather say that how I launched the business. I used wrong strategies.
Speaker 2:I used wrong strategies which.
Speaker 3:I used wrong strategies, which probably I can say they are also bad decision-making processes which really made me real, which I came to realization in late, late time, when I've already made a very big mess. Yeah, so that's what happened with the first business.
Speaker 3:And I decided to also think of how can I? Because I think I can say the first company which I made, the kind of idea I did, was mostly capital intensive and during that time I really needed capital to be able to build it and during that time I was really desperate for money. Like. I'm just looking for anybody who wants to put money here I built the business.
Speaker 3:But I really had very less background in terms of investors, money and equity and stuff. Yeah, yeah, so there were quite a lot of challenges raising the business. Yeah, so there were quite a lot of challenges raising the business, trying to break in, come cash positive and having in mind that now, as an entrepreneur, that's the only business you believe that can pay you and it's still not paying. You can't do any other business because if you try to do another business, you will one of them will fail. So it was really quite a challenging moment because I was only now depending on who can put money in the business that you can grow it, because I will only survive in this business.
Speaker 3:So it was quite a challenge because now I decided, like there is this investor, I've already given 45%, with probably less than almost a million, just a million Kenya shillings investment. When someone came to me and said what is 45%? What does it mean?
Speaker 2:that is like 10,000 US dollars yes.
Speaker 3:So by that time you see you're just desperate for money. Then it was just a total mess. And then you now get another investor who is willing to invest in your business. But you've already made a very big mistake, giving out a huge chunk to the business with very little investment, which probably didn't do much. Yeah, so I decided to do a lot of master classes, learning how to deal with investors, what are all these kind of technologies and stuff, how to best protect your business and ensure that, especially in raising money for the business. So there's quite a lot of information. I had to come back, learn and then strategize well in the next business, also working with partners. It was quite a challenge come back, learn and then strategize well in the next business.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, also working with partners. It was quite a challenge. Yeah. The people you give equity to and stuff the people you're working with. They were really not quite sharing the same vision. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's where really a big problem came in. Yeah, when people now have divided visions for the business, yeah, someone is there for profit, someone is there for probably some other salary and stuff and that really kind of killed the vision of the business and I decided like I think for now let me try to work alone and probably get someone who is very close to the vision that we are doing. Yeah, that led to another business.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, but did you just pivot this one? How did it work? Did you consume a million dollars? No, a million.
Speaker 3:The business became bankrupt. You see, now we are not able to operate. There are a lot of bills to be paid and stuff. So we decided like, let's go slow on this. I think there's quite a lot of things you can do. I'm running on debts right now. The business is not doing anything, so it's better we I think we go back and reflect, yeah, so Now, how did investors end up losing almost a million Kenyan shillings?
Speaker 3:You see, I can't say that we killed the business. Okay, what I can say is that the business has not been funded well to scale.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it still exists up to today.
Speaker 3:It's still existing. The only challenge is that now it's quite hard to get another investor right now. Because already someone owns 45% 45%, and the business is still in its infancy stage.
Speaker 2:So it's like you find someone in ICU but you want to take one kid, yeah, or you already have taken one kid, exactly.
Speaker 3:So now tell me you, as an investor, you want to come in to put 5 million.
Speaker 2:And someone has 45. In exchange for probably maybe the 45 percent guy should give maybe 10 or half, I don't know yeah, of course that's something that should happen, but now it's quite a debatable thing and stuff, because now the investors feel like. You know I put in a million shillings at this rate yeah, so for us, we are feeling it more. I don't know, political or something. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's why we started having a lot of people dividing up and stuff.
Speaker 2:So initially you're not alone. I was with a team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so when people start dropping down, I decided like this is my innovation, this is my idea. Let me just take it slow. Probably we can have a sitting another time to discuss about it and see how best we can take it out. The innovation had a market.
Speaker 2:We had a lot of security companies, Of course, GSM car tracking yeah.
Speaker 3:A lot of security companies were already coming on board. But now the challenge was there was no funding to scale the business. Plus people want to come in to fund the business. They were like shying away yeah. I want to be the solo, probably invest or something yeah what have you been able to do with whatever funding you've received and stuff?
Speaker 3:yeah and there was really not much, and that raised a lot of questions. Yeah, so yeah, I think it's quite. For me, it was quite a learning experience, because all those things happened because of lack of knowledge at some point. Plus, also when you're just fresh from college and someone is telling you I have a million here can you give me 50% of your company, You're like by all means. Tech. Actually I can give you 60. But the point is that you're just excited for the money.
Speaker 2:You really don't know how big this could lead to, and how do you scale this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think we were really missing a mark somewhere, but because we were just excited and all that kind of stuff, we made quick decisions which really I can say were really not good at that time. Yeah, but it has been quite a learning curve understanding the startup ecosystem.
Speaker 2:How do you raise funds? How?
Speaker 3:do you raise funds? How do you actually run a business? First, yeah. Then how do you raise funds? Yeah, all those things have been quite a learning experience.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so you now start the second business. Yes, what was it?
Speaker 3:The second business was a record-keeping solution for small businesses. It was called Takeizo App.
Speaker 2:That is a software Software. The first one was hardware Hardware.
Speaker 3:Because I decided to do something which is less funding and stuff. Yeah, but now still the problem that I didn't solve, that I never had skills in choosing the right people to work with.
Speaker 2:You didn't learn from the first experience.
Speaker 3:Exactly what I wanted is that I was like, who is willing to invest money so that we can become co-founders in this business? So people are willing to put 100k, 100k, so that for me I can say I just valued the software at 100k during that time. I said, say I just valued the software at 100k during that time. I said, okay, let's build a business, then we do that. But before that there is something, before bringing the people together, I had applied for a grant from the government.
Speaker 2:It was called for the same project.
Speaker 3:It was called Belen Abiz. The grant was 3.6 million. Kenya shillings.
Speaker 3:Kenya shillings when I qualified for the grant. When I applied for the grant, I was a solo entrepreneur, okay, just ideating with a fancy name that I have as a company which I'm expecting to open, yeah. But then it took a year. You know, this government stuff sometimes takes time. Yeah, government stuff sometimes takes time. So after a year and a half, that's when they shortlisted people and I was among the few people who were shortlisted, for I think it was 700 people, entrepreneurs Around 300 people qualified for 3.6. Others qualified for 900,000 Kenya shillings. So the challenge there is that now the government need to put this money to a business, a registered business. But it was for the youth. For you, the people I'm working with were not in the youth bracket.
Speaker 3:But this money needed to get into the company. I can't open another company now. I have a span of two weeks to deliver these documents and stuff. I told them, let's just put them Now. We created this business. That's when the results came out. Span of two weeks to deliver these documents and stuff. I told them let's just put them when I now we created this business. That's when the results came out after we've opened a company okay with another team.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so when they gave, when, when they decided like we need to put this man to business, I decided like I can't open a separate company when the same business which is being funded is what I have already looked for a team. Let them put this money here. So when the money was put there we had already had some few experiences with the two teams there the business it was really not scaling well. We were really taking more time there, plus people were feeling like probably it's not going to pay up very quickly. So when the money came in, people were like you know what? Why can't we just divide this money then? Do something else.
Speaker 3:Because I don't think if we put this money in this business, it may not scale and we will waste the money.
Speaker 2:And I was like no, the money was supposed to be divided, it was supposed to do the business.
Speaker 3:The business Plus, yeah, plus. Now you see it was supposed to, it was the government was like we are giving this money to Denny's for you to do the business. But they didn't realize that I had to already bring people on board who I never knew could have those kind of divided intentions. But what?
Speaker 4:happened is that now I had to bring people on board now to tell us kind of conflict resolution Exactly.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so that's really actually what really happened and we decided that's now, after solving all those problems, I decided like so how was it solved?
Speaker 2:Like you guys, did you divide it or did they understand that this man is for? They need to?
Speaker 3:do the business. People had to quit Because you see these people, most of them they are employed in. Government yeah stuff and it was going to cause conflict of. So what they told them is that this money was meant, because the money was meant for me, but now the money was supposed to be put in a business account.
Speaker 2:Ah, which you didn't have.
Speaker 3:So because when they came for evaluation and stuff, they're sitting with me, not anybody else how did you spend the money? It is me. So it becomes a challenge when I can't spend money because I have people who can't sign, because they are above the. No, we all need to sign, you see. So that kind of conflict really made it tough and I decided like let me just so there was a bit of conflict so we cannot disclose here. But I decided now let me venture into a different business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, All together.
Speaker 3:All together.
Speaker 2:That's when Kooza came in Kooza came in, but were you able to access that money?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's how now Kuza came in.
Speaker 2:So that was like the seed funding for Kuza. Freeza. Yeah, tell me, how did you come up with Kuza? Okay, the idea never came from me it came from my co-founder. Who is your co-founder? She's Purity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Purity Kekuo. What happened is that we met in one of agricultural showground and um when she's doing high school or no. After this, after I've already graduated, this is now the time that I'm having all this business and stuff yeah you see, for me I've been having this background with the community and stuff, even though I never had that idea like okay, cold storage can support these communities. But my co-founder has been now working because she's in the hospitality industry.
Speaker 3:She's always working with people in the fish value chain trying to find all this kind of seafood stuff and that's where she had this background like how comes fish directly from farmers is almost 50% less from what is available in the market. And that's where she came to find that there's really a gap in terms of these. People lack storage, most of them will stay off grid, they depend on ice to preserve and if they're not able to get a better market or people to buy their catch, they will have to just to sell to their communities at very throwy prices and this really was robbing them a lot of revenue. So she decided, like why can't we do something? And for me, I had a tech background, she has a research background and that's how we decided, like I think we can do something.
Speaker 2:That's how we decided to bring it up and at this point now you have 3.6 or you know some funding around, I don't know how much I can say yeah. To put into this business so that now you can start. Do you start by building your first freezer? Do you start by looking for a customer and then build it, or do you build a few and then start demoing and showcasing?
Speaker 3:You know how the idea started. The idea started like why can't we support these communities? We call storage solutions. So what we decided is can we get a fridge, a freezer available? We just it was like an idea of selling.
Speaker 2:So even you were not selling these things. Initially we were not even producing.
Speaker 3:That's the fact we are not producing. We went off shelf, get a product, then work with the community, but now we came to realize that we can't control the prices coming from the market yeah the prices were going very up, especially for solar related products. Okay, and then we that's now raised another question how can we cut down the cost of this product? Because we can't tell these clients that everyday prices are going up. Imported products the price are always high.
Speaker 3:Not flexible, yeah, plastic, they are very high yes and that's why the idea of why can't we do something, why can't we make a local solution to solve the local problems yeah I don't have a background in refrigeration. I had a little background in solar energy, even though that's things I had to start finding out how else I could get background in that. So we decided to collaborate with a few people, people who have experience in fabrication, and that's why we decided, like, let's work with people who are in the boat industry who are currently manufacturing boats. They know the designs.
Speaker 3:We can make cooler boxes or they know the designs. We can make cooler boxes or freezers from the designs. We can mold them. So that's how we made our first product, tested with the market, got a lot of feedback in terms of performance and everything, because this is a manually produced product. So that's how we got our first product on the fishing boat for fishermen. Yeah. So I think the aspect of local manufacturing reduced the cost by almost 50 percent. Wow, because I can say only 30 percent of the raw materials were imported yeah and that really motivated us.
Speaker 3:I think we can go big and better if we try to produce something locally.
Speaker 2:And this is fascinating, man, because if you think about it, even the aspect of locally producing the material here cuts the cost to that extent. Then there's so much actually that can through repo effect that includes hardware and construction that could really mean that's so much actually that can through repo effect that includes hardware and construction that could really mean that if we give it more attention it could actually become affordable. That's a side, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you create your first freezer. Who do you sell it to? Or do you go to this fish community and start showing them the capability?
Speaker 3:So what we did first? I think everything came from the research background.
Speaker 3:Who are the people you were working with? Because, before working with the fishermen, we decided to look at which people can we partner with, and the first people we looked into were actually the beach management units. These are people governing fishermen. All the fishermen have to report to these beach management units, which are also governing fishermen. All the fishermen have to report to these beach management units, which are also known as BMUs. So working with them made it easy for us to access a lot of fishermen. There are about around 10 or 5 to 10 BMUs here in Mombasa.
Speaker 3:Thousands. No, I can say within Mombasa BMUsused, but one BMU can have and raise what is BME beach management units. So this after Kenya fisheries, we have BMEs by the exactly, yeah, so these are now people were directly not working with the small-scale fishermen mm-hmm yeah, so working with them. I think the strategy there was how can we access the fisher folks? Once we accessed them, it was easy for us now to show them what we had discuss with them get the feedback and also see how best can we break that cold story challenge.
Speaker 3:So that's how we got our first pilot tested with the people going deep sea fishing. Yeah, but it has been a process of iteration and getting feedback, trying to improve here and there with their kind of feedbacks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, nice and uh, in this case you're talking about just mombasa region, or even up to Lamu, malindi, kisi, kilifi, all the way down to Ndiani Tanga, because all that is like it's a way of form. It has some fishes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, our focus was not just mainly on people who are in the coastal fishing communities, but it was basically for people who are dealing the coastal fishing communities, but it was basically for people who are dealing with fish. So think about fish farmers, think about fish vendors okay think about fish suppliers. These are people who want to move fish from remote places to point b, still maintaining the quality.
Speaker 3:So cold storage is key for them. So these are the kind of people we've been working with and the coastal community really helped us in testing this product and improving it. But after some time, when you realize this product is appealing to different market segments it's appealing for people who want to supply fish and also vendors who have their own vending shops distributed.
Speaker 2:Oh nice.
Speaker 3:So even to some extent you found it scalable of course, because, because, because what I tell you is that we, after starting telling our story about what you're doing with the fishing communities, we realize tanzania and other countries who are also having the same problem.
Speaker 3:They're asking how? How can you become your distributors? But now, at that level whereby you're doing small scale production, you still don't have better machinery to produce. It becomes a challenge to take up that deal. Even though you can't tell people that we can't produce at that scale right now, amazing man, and for you.
Speaker 2:Now the world is catching up with your innovation and you're all over. You're in India, yeah, you're. In which other countries are you going to demonstrate this solution?
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course, all this is because of the acceleration programs, I think one of the things which has really boosted us as a startup in terms of visibility and, at the same time, linking us to potential investors and funders, is actually having linked to acceleration programs. We have been to various acceleration programs. One is known as SolarX International Solar Alliance which had kind of a project known as SolarX.
Speaker 3:Challenge in India. So through the acceleration program now we were able to access potential partnership in India. So through the acceleration program now we were able to access potential partnership in India.
Speaker 3:Then we had Ocean Hub Africa, who are currently supporting us, and we've been able to access partners, people we can partner with in South Africa. So I think all these regions we've been able to travel to is because of the partners that we were linked to, who are opening doors to various areas of scaling and probably either through market linkage or through partnership, to scale our production.
Speaker 2:And Chief. The other day you met a few leaders. You met our president. What was the take around your innovation?
Speaker 3:Well, it was. I can say it was it directly with the president. But yeah, but the good.
Speaker 3:The good thing is that, you see, um, our innovation has really grown to. It is because of the kind of support you're getting from different people yeah I can say a lot, of, a lot of leaders have seen the potential in the innovation, because even the Mbele Nabi's, they are leaders who saw this innovation and they really also supported in linking us to these big leaders in the country. And you see the country right now. One of the big four agenda is manufacturing.
Speaker 3:And for us, trying to promote local manufacturing is one of the pillars which they are manufacturing, and for us, trying to promote local manufacturing is one of the pillars which they are really pushing, and this is something that we really know that can really create a lot of jobs and also improve livelihoods for people here in Kenya. So a lot of leaders are really interested for this kind of a solution which is creating that kind of impact. Yeah, were you in Algeria?
Speaker 2:I was in Algeria. Yes, what was happening there?
Speaker 3:Algeria. There was, we call it, it was a summit.
Speaker 3:There was a summit in Algeria where we startups across Africa, were invited to yeah, to network with other startups and also pitch to investors, because there was a lot of investors who came across the continent and it was really a good opportunity for us to also establish potential networks with the people we could collaborate in different dimensions. Plus, you see, a lot of leaders from different countries in Africa were also present to hear what we are doing and this is really creating a lot of potential partnership to scale.
Speaker 2:So have you gotten any investment so far from all these engagements?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, I can't say that it is enough investment that we've been looking at to scale, but it's an investment which has really enabled us to achieve quite a huge impact so far.
Speaker 2:And even test some of your modules, absolutely. So any other places you've?
Speaker 3:visited so far. You've visited so many places which is really because for me, I never knew that innovation can take me to those kind of places, but something really good because I'm now.
Speaker 3:I can say, when you go to a different country, especially those which are developed, like Germany, which I also travel to, to you really get your mind opened up yeah the way you perceive innovation, you realize there's quite a lot of gaps yeah it's quite something you can do better yeah yeah, and those kind of challenging environments, especially when you get in your challenge, when you're in your challenge with your idea and how best you can improve it then I think that's one of the things which was really great for this kind of market linkage programs and for Berlin it was through SotHub. Sothub linked us now to this kind of market linkage program which was really great.
Speaker 3:And, as I'm saying, for me, one of the things I realized, that which is which has really supported our business, was finding a place in the community whereby there are people who are sharing this kind of vision and willing to work with you that kind of journey. Yeah, and that's why we really have that confidence working through with these incubation, why we really have that confidence working through with these incubation acceleration hubs who are really sharing that kind of vision.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice, nice. So, Dennis, we are so proud of what you're doing and it's great, I'm sure even your siblings now at least they can see how big bro Absolutely yeah, I think yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm happy that I've also become an inspiration for many people, people who also, who have actually seen my journey growing up in the startup world. They know how I struggled, like how we started and they know that now, even though in their own small level of development they are in, something can grow to a big thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you made so many small level of development they are in, something can grow to a big thing. Yeah, you made so many people believe, actually, and I know you for one resilient guy, man, like every time I visited Mombasa, you are building something always, and it was always something new to some extent. I think I've ever asked you, like what happened to the other idea, you know that one, we pivoted one. To some extent, I think I've ever asked you like what?
Speaker 2:happened to the other idea. Yeah, you know that one, uh, we pivoted. Now we're in this one, but this one, this is how it works. That's what you're doing and it's amazing, man, to see you put more, more effort in some of these uh, entrepreneurs, before they they really, you know, get that breakpoint moment is from that resilience that they, they establish and you're one of those guys, yeah, so what is the next for kuzafreeza? What should you expect? Where can I, should we, when we go to any supermarket, can we now buy it? Maybe in europe, maybe in america? Is it a brand that you are looking for and want it to be found in every other shelf where you can get it, however small or big?
Speaker 3:yeah, the issue here is not about actually scaling to other countries the scaling is a bigger picture, of course, which is really positive, but the issue here is that there is still quite a huge potential. Don't even go far in East Africa. The issue here is in the next few years, we are seeing Kooza Freeza becoming a facility whereby we're able to create solutions, especially in the cold storage space, which is like an enabler for people, because for us, we don't want to keep building cold storage solutions. That's not the kind of lifestyle we want to be.
Speaker 3:But, what we want to do is that we want to have solutions which can attract different players in place to create impact in their own ways. Like what I told you is that having a cold storage solution which is bringing suppliers, people in the fish value chain who are doing supply. These are people who are tapping to an already existing solution we have built and they have found a way of improving their livelihoods through that direction.
Speaker 3:So I think for us, we want to scale production and impact as more lives as possible, especially in curbing post-harvest losses. Working with people in right now we are focusing people in the fish value chain, but our cold story solution is something which has potential to scale to even different market segments. We have people in health, we have people in dairy yeah, we have people even in poultry who need this kind of solution. So scaling this solution will create so much potential to different people to find meaningful use for the solution and improve their livelihoods.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's what actually matters when it comes to such a solution the impact that actually that has. Because if people can really improve their livelihood, they can afford education, they can afford basic needs, then you see a ripple effect in an economy, socioeconomic growth in that community and these I see it really improving the way things are. But do you have plans to even, you know, explore value chain Just to make sure that, yes, you can actually preserve your fish? But if things go well, you get maybe some investment and even have where people you know process the fish, package it export or even, you know, distribute across the country?
Speaker 3:I think all those are potential areas of scale that we're looking into right now. They only right now. The the next step that you're seeing there is that there are quite a huge number of people who have yet to access cold storage.
Speaker 3:And scaling production and coming up with a sustainable business model which is relevant for people in low income communities, then I think this solution will be able to reach so many people in different levels. So scaling production is our next big thing. How can we scale local manufacturing, produce products which can be now exported to neighboring countries and reach as many people as possible?
Speaker 2:especially those in the fish value chain so amazing. So something else that maybe I'm requesting my guests is to talk to our audience, encourage them, try to encourage them to subscribe, follow us so that we can grow. As you know, I know we'll have so many podcasts, especially in different regions and also with you, because you're also growing and I'm sure, maybe two, three years from now we'll be able to talk about other things yeah when we come back, maybe we'll talk to more audience, we'll be able to reach more kangis out there absolutely, so please feel free.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure, I think first of all for me is to thank you for this kind of platform, because I know this for me is a true story, which I've really shared and it's something which has really I'm really always like bowing to it because I know where I've come from, then.
Speaker 3:I know the process and I know where I'm heading to. Especially, knowing where I'm heading to is even the biggest part, because this is what is always a motivational factor. So having heading to is even the biggest part, because this is what is always a motivational factor. So, having this kind of opportunities, I always don't take them for granted because, this is areas I've always been leveraging on yeah to take um my skills, my business, the next level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think for me, what I can tell the people probably watching is that entrepreneurship is not for the faint heart. Exactly, and it's. It's something. If you, if you have passion in doing something and if you really have that kind of big vision, that's the only thing which can really always wake you up even at midnight because you know that there is something which I've not yet achieved.
Speaker 3:It always be a motivational factor. And being in a position whereby you're willing to learn. Don't always think that you always have the best idea, but always be ready to learn and always think the top-down approach. Because for us, as I started my first business, which I can say that they didn't do well, the approach was different. But when I decided to go back to the community, start with the people, first learn what the challenges are going through, then now devise ways of creating a solution for them. Then they'll be willing to pay because this solution will fit their problems. So all these are some things that I've been able to learn and there is no way better to reach audiences, reach partners.
Speaker 3:people will be able to understand a solution without being in this kind of setup and that's why I'm really grateful for these opportunities. One of the things I can actually tell you is that Africa Stalking is one of the things which has really been powering our pay. As you go, when customers pay, when customers make payments for products, they need to get notifications via SMS and stuff.
Speaker 3:Actually, sms part is what has been really been a powerful tool in controlling payments and letting customers know what's going on, and this is what probably I can tell people that there's quite a lot of tools they can use. There's quite a lot of people they can leverage on, like you, and get various ways to advance the ideas and take them to the market.
Speaker 2:Yes, Very nice. You, you mean MK, or you mean Africa Stalking For me right now.
Speaker 3:I'm saying you because you, you've introduced me to this. But Africa Stalking, probably I knew it. I knew it in a different way. I never knew that Africa Stalking could still bring us together, but because when I met you it was more. I was mostly doing my own, uh, you know, in different kind of projects yeah but the project I was doing is what it throws me to like.
Speaker 3:I think africa's talking has apis which are more friendly to kind of uh interact with, and that's what has actually formed the core basis of what we do right now.
Speaker 2:And I mean, you actually said something very important, because you see, when you're growing business, what matters is scale. And I think what we shared back in the day in Cobra. How many years now 2017, now it's seven years. Seven years ago.
Speaker 2:When you're scaling, you really need it because there's tooling, tooling, there's all these. Now the tech, uh, that actually supports that, so it comes in handy. Uh, and if you want to find me easy for those who don't know, please, if you see any event that is being hosted either by africa's talking or any other community and you see michael kimathi as one of the participant, speaker or whichever, whichever that is happening, please, that's the best place to meet me.
Speaker 2:And whenever I get a chance I share as much as I can because I'm passionate about you. Know Africa as a solution provider as well as creating opportunities that surpass time. I believe all of us, the biggest duty we have in Africa, if you're in Africa, is to leave Africa better than you found it. Absolutely so. Before I conclude, I would like to share one African proverb about fish, about fish, so. Our proverb today says this one is interesting If water was enough, fish would not take bait.
Speaker 3:What does that really mean?
Speaker 2:Let me repeat so that we can all translate so if water was enough, if water was enough, fish will not take bait. So, regardless of what is happening in the world, regardless of the circumstances you are in, you should not settle, you should not say you know, this is it, and you can even take a fish in an ocean. We all know ocean is endless, it is bigger than even landmass, but still, if you give the fish the bait, it will take.
Speaker 2:But now in your case, you know investors will always know that, regardless of how you think your business will scale, you'll still take the bait off investment yeah.
Speaker 4:Just from this story I know right now you're more smarter, but this could be actually you can learn from it, just from this story.
Speaker 2:I know right now you are more smarter, but this, this proverb could be actually you can learn from it in different perspectives.
Speaker 3:Please go ahead. Yeah, I was saying. I was saying like it doesn't mean that all investors are good all investors are bad. Not all investors are bad. Not all investors are good. All investors come with different. I can say they all always have their own package. So it's better for you to know which investor aligns with you. Exactly yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So even the fish thinks the bait aligns with it.
Speaker 3:You might have a wrong bait.
Speaker 2:Then you take the wrong bait. But of course, this is a proverb. You can translate it according to your context and learn from it. So I would encourage you guys who are watching us to give us feedback, tell us how it was. Did you learn something?
Speaker 2:Also, subscribe, enable notification bell on YouTube. We're on YouTube as Impact Masters Podcast. If you search Impact Masters Podcast or Impact Masters Media, you'll always find us there. Also, if you search Africa's Talking Retour Podcast, you'll find it, and you'll see even our previous guests try to share support and all that. But also we exist in all podcasts channels, such as Google Podcasts, spotify Podcasts, amazon Music Podcasts, hihat, which is the biggest digital radio in the world, amongst your favorite podcasts channel. And if you go to go on Buzzsprout and search Impact Masters Podcasts, you can even download this podcast and listen to it over time as you drive, as you exercise, because sometimes listening to other people's story Actually makes you learn faster On what they did and what they didn't do, and even support, because maybe I encourage people even to invest more in Africa why not?
Speaker 2:So, without further ado, this is Michael Kemathi, representing Impact Masters Podcasts in collaboration with Africa's Talking Podcasts, and actually today I would like to give shout out to our videographer, producer, site manager, who is just behind the camera, oliver Ware Akolo. And, by the way, interesting aspect is that they went to school together with our guest today and, yeah, even the same scholarship program. So it's really. It's not a coincidence actually, if you think about it, because when I knew you I didn't know Oliver, but we met Oliver on other circumstances and now we are actually telling the you know, shooting the stories, telling the stories, so shout out. So if you see the videos or the editing everything, he's the guy behind the camera. Shout out to him and until further notice, thank you so much, thank you, thank you.
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