From Biashara to Blockchain: Eddie Kago on Grit, Kenyan Tech, and DeFi for Farmers

We trace Eddie Cargo’s path from a childhood in Biashara to elite schooling, an architecture apprenticeship, and early software delivery that sparked a mission to build tech for public good in Africa. Grit, curiosity, and community stitch a line from beans and butchery to health systems, DeFi for farmers, and developer mentorship.

• growing up in family business and early money sense
• boredom as a signal to build, not drift
• harsh boarding school lessons that formed resilience
• Mangu’s competitive culture and technical subjects
• science congress as a prototype for pitching and product
• pressure, exams, and a healthier view of competition
• architecture apprenticeship and real consortium work
• Strathmore lab, Laravel, and health information systems
• first client projects, pricing, and six‑figure student gigs
• mission threads: identity, privacy, blockchain, food systems
• capacity building through Upeo Discovery and community work

Impact Masters: https://www.impactmasters.io
LinkedIn: https://ke.linkedin.com/company/impact-masters-inc
X: https://x.com/ImpactMastersco
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@impact_masters_global
 

Host LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkimathi/
Host X: https://twitter.com/m_k_global

Eddie’s work at Antugro (financing quality farm inputs): https://antugro.com
Upeo Discovery – mentorship and exposure programs: https://upeodiscovery.org

0:00 – Guest intro & mission
3:10 – Childhood in Biashara: family shop, hardware, butchery
10:30 – Primary school boredom and the shock of boarding in Nyahururu
22:30 – Hardship lessons, discipline, and academic drive
32:30 – Choosing high school: Mangu realities and expectations
43:30 – Competition, culture, identity, and finding your lane
55:00 – Exams, pressure, and a healthier view of performance
1:07:30 – Architecture apprenticeship: sites, tenders, and real projects
1:17:20 – Pivot to tech: Strathmore, Laravel, and health systems
1:27:00 – First coding lab, real clients, and student six‑figure gigs
1:37:00 – Entrepreneurship spark and what’s next

#AfricanTech #KenyanDevelopers #BlockchainForGood #DeFi #DeveloperJourney #Agritech #TechInAfrica

Transcript

Guest Intro & Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Awesome, awesome, awesome. It's Michael Kimadi once again, if you want MK. And today we have an interesting guest in the house, uh, going by the name Eddie Cargo. Eddie Cargo is a software engineer driven by a passion of self-sovereign identity, blockchain, and privacy. And his mission is to empower individuals and communities through technology, particularly in Africa. His work is aimed at solving market inefficiencies at scale using cutting-edge technology. And his journey began in the world of food systems where he co-founded a company focusing on streamlining the agriculture, agricultural supply chain. These experiences instilled in him the importance of simplicity and impact when designing solutions. Later he tackled the challenges of digital access by founding an ISP home services company, affordable internet access to underserved communities, and then he shifted his focus to environmental sustainability, co-founding Arifu Alerts, a venture for forest monitoring and monitoring and reporting using earth observation data from satellites. This deepened his commitment to leveraging technology for good. He believes this holds immense potential for financial inclusion, secure access to services, and trust building in Africa and beyond. Currently, he focuses his focus is combines early interest in food systems, health observation, and blockchain identity verification in Antogro, a company he founded to tackle food insecurity through quality importance financing for farmers using decentralized finance. He believes in building capacity and he actively mentors and trains in trains individuals in digital literacy and developer skills through initiatives like Upeo Discovery, empowering the next generation of tech talents. Alright, alright. How are you? Uh Eddie Cargo.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

You're good?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

You're not sure if you're good. No, no, no. You're not sure if you're hard. Oh boot up. You're like OS Windows uh Windows what Windows M E. M E. That's the first Windows uh platform. 1990s.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Yeah, uh yeah, yeah. Thanks for the introduction.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

No worries, man. Um, yeah, this is just what you you sent through, but um with this podcast,

Early Life, Family Business Roots

SPEAKER_01 3:10

actually you start from the beginning, right? Uh before all this, because this looks like post-campo or during campo. And uh for me actually, uh I I was privileged to know you through Facebook Dev Circles. Uh initially after you know, the I think the second generation left it to you. That is Nanda, then there was that lady, uh Caro. Caro Caro. And then it's it was you. Uh that's when actually we got to like I used to see you a lot in the developer communities. Uh and then later on, we met at Africa Stalking. And uh yeah, the rest is history because even when we met at Africa Stalking, I was like, why can't we return uh the momentum of the developer? I'm so passionate about developers and and and building because I believe this community is building the ecosystem. But before that, uh please, where did Eddie Cargo began as Eddie Cargo? Where were you born, man?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Um, I mean, so I was born in Dagoreti. So I'm a Dago person, um, but then um grew up in Islands, yeah. Um still a bit of um Dagoreti, uh early days of Kitengela. So that was um um the half half the last half of the 90s, uh yeah, of the late 90s. Um then grew up in Islands, um, that's where I did my primary and um high school uh was in Thika. I went to Mangu.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Um you're passing through, man. Like you know, I mean, so those are very, very important experiences, and I'll tell you why it's very important to go you know step by step, you know. Um mostly if you if you if you do a background check, even when you are you know meditating and and and you realize most of those experiences from even pre-primary school, the interaction with the people there, the teachers, the way you started even learning shaped what you're doing right now. Yeah, interestingly, yeah, interestingly. So that's why I don't like passing through it. It's easier to say, okay, I was born in Dago, went here, you know, and it just passes like that. Going to Mango alone is uh is is is not a small fit. Mango is like the top 10 schools, national schools. Okay, I know now there are many national schools, but of course, it's still among the top. These guys even have piloting in that school, so it's not something to just you know pass through. So I would like you to take your time and take us through like we are we were there, like if we listen to you, we'll we'll actually go through that journey with you.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah, I mean, then it means most of the experiences early on were from my parents, obviously. Okay. So um my father and my mother uh purely business professionals, so and they were, I mean, at that time we didn't have the term entrepreneur, but um they were running a hardware uh selling construction things. Oh nice. Um and so so that's that's that's like where I actually knew myself from. Okay. No, actually before that they had a small shop, uh retail, yeah. Um and just like just a normal shop, just a normal shop, um selling you know um milk, bread, um sweets, and the usual. So after which um they set up uh hardware, uh hardware business, yeah. Um we're selling uh construction material. Yeah, and that's that's where I really got to understand uh life from because that's entrepreneurship actually. So that's the first school I had before school. Okay. So I was maybe four years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Were you helping out? Were you going to hang around the the the hardware or no?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

So um naturally you'd find yourself there because there's no like daycare, so you just hang out with your parents, um, seeing customers coming in, picking things. Um, but then after that, um after now they had the so the hardware was um somewhere in in Kitangela. Um so we moved now to um Islands where we set up a butchery shop.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

So now the butchery shop is actually where I did a lot of work helping out. Um I got to understand um you know the parts of a cow. So so here I was, I think I was in uh now um early early days, just during primary school. Um and I think six years old, between now four to six years, I was helping out, going to look for change, you know. So um so I've I've literally grown up in Biashara. Oh okay, so I I I so so it's very hard um to um define the world or my world without uh Biashatra, as we call it, uh like the Kenya Kenyan term, yeah, which is entrepreneurship, it's fancier nowadays. Um yeah, yeah. So so so yeah, so um I I I I had that interaction with money early on before um actually seeing or studying money in school. So yeah, so now that's that's when uh I got into primary. Um was you went to nursery school or kindergarten? Um, I mean I was in nursery, but I think I only went to nursery for a very short time.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

So I didn't last long in nursery school. Um, because I mean, so we so my elder brother, who is uh three years uh my senior, would go to school and I would cry and like school as well. Yeah. So so I didn't last long in nursery, so I was uh taken to class one, um, kind of rushed between class one and class three. So it was a point where now when I was transferred uh to another school, um I had to repeat class one because I was too young. Okay. So I was actually going to get an interview to I think to get into class three. Okay. But they had to get me back to class one because of your age. Yeah, they said this kid is too young. Give me an interview I passed. Um, I was in the head teacher's um office waiting for the interview results um with my mom over there. So I was reading the the headmaster's um newspaper, it was a delay day show, and I was just busy flipping the pages. It's like uh I think it's a six-year-old kid getting into class three. So they had to take me back to class one. Um, so I started life again. So I was so bored um those first three, four years in in primary. Okay. Because I already did it.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. So for you it's just passing time because now you have no otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Which which school was that? So um I went to Kwajanga primary school. Yeah, so that's no no that's in um Kru Kwajenga. Okay, yeah. Uh oh so and and and it used to be one of the top performing schools in in the province. You see, it was under the Nairobi City Council.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

So now when I was joining in, is when um now Kibaki was coming in and uh doing the free primary education. So really even getting into Kanjo schools uh obviously, um, during the Kanjo era, the city Nairobi City Council era was very hard. Yeah. So um by the time we were joining, it was number three in the province in terms of results. Yeah. So so we had really good primary schools, uh, but obviously um times change. Yeah, so that's that's why I did my primary school. Yeah. So um uh so so so there I am with other kids um who are like neighbors and and and and and also our customers. So some of

Primary School Boredom to Boarding Shock

SPEAKER_00 10:30

the teachers were customers would pass by like the shop to buy meat, yeah, or get a chemist or something. So yeah, so so I'd actually interact with them, give them change. Um yeah, and and and and it was a cool experience. And so so we had um so my my my folks had hired uh one of the assistants was uh was a Tanzanian. Yeah, I remember it was called Daudi, so I was like, who what is a Tanzanian? So that's like was my first interaction with someone who is not Kenyan. So that's when I really knew who being a Kenyan is, you know, and and uh foreigner, yeah, and not really a foreigner, but who is also who who also is a Tanzanian, who looks like us, speaks like us, who speaks ohili. You know, his name was Daudi, so like hanging out with him, we're very good buddies. Yeah, but but I hadn't realized that he's not from, you know, he's he's not like from Kenya like us. So um interestingly, I learned I've I've learned more outside the school system than in the school system. Yeah, yeah. So which probably still happening um outside books than books, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah. And uh that's your lower primary school experience. Were you like a playerful kid after school, during school, now that you are passing three years, two years actually, yeah. Now that you repeated uh the classes, so um it's only one word boredom.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

I'm so bored. Um uh mess around with the other kids. Um but then the good thing is that our classes ended uh after lunchtime. So we had nothing to do. Just go home. Yeah, we'd go home, um, you know, help out or or just do your homework, which you know was not so hard. So um, but but most of my time was now at the shop helping out. So there I was doing things. Um, but but but but in terms of actual activities, um, Islands is not um uh uh does that uh that doesn't have uh is isn't short of activities. So it is a lot of things. We'd go hunting. Uh at that time um the pipeline area was not so built, so there's so many um we call them uh Matange, so paper paper streets. So we'd go there hunt um uh weird things, you know. So we had like um groups of boys, we'd um um also have our own dogs, yeah. So we'd uh so we call them gayries. So yeah, so so so most of these things which are like mainstream today have always been there. Yeah, and we we actually had very good community. Maybe that's where my community sense started. Those were the initial guys who actually who lived there, yeah. We were like the first kids who were brought up in the area, so so we'd have like we'd just find ourselves bonding together to go to uh Duvon Para row. There's no other way I can explain that.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Uh there's no English interpretation, swimming swimming in the rivers.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

No, I mean uh I'm here to get like a good word for that, but I think DuVon Pararo works. So we like uh not not just the river, we didn't have rivers, so we'd have like open areas for stagnated water. Not really stagnated, so it's like it's like God, God, god, godmother. Yeah, so so so and how it used to happen, um, is so you have a building uh being built and there's a foundation duck. Even today, actually, there are those uh the water just stagnates and then there's rain, so you just go there uh skinny deep, uh move all your clothes. Yeah, yeah. So we did have like the swimming pool etiquette to have like swimming costumes, yeah. But then after now leaving the water since the uh the the soil is black cotton, so you you end up looking very weird, uh very ashy. Yeah, so we'd carry uh Vasily to actually hide the fact that you are from uh Ducum Pararo. I mean, uh yeah, it it it it it was a very healthy um time growing up because we we do a lot of crazy stuff. Yeah, like um yeah, yeah, fight. Um that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

But now when I think about it, even with those with the with the water you're talking about, right now it's so mixed with the sewage that it's not really even you can't even do the doofum barrel things nowadays. But of course, with the rain, of course, you can't miss a spot where you can get that.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Nowadays it's very hard. Um so you find guys have popularized swimming pools, and and also interestingly, um, obviously the kids um that are being brought up uh after us and even today are more shielded. So they are mostly brought up by the TVs. So and and this is obviously because we had digital TVs coming in, so more content was on TV. You remember we were bored because you only had KTN and TV and TB and KBC, yeah. So Citizen wasn't that strong. Yeah, so that niche thing. So um and UTV, that kafani station. So we also so nowadays, because kids have a lot of content on TV, um, and now with the internet and and YouTube, yeah, so it's very rare to have them out. Yeah, they go and maybe swimming pools.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get to class four, which now is new to you. Yeah, how does that change? Do you do you focus more or no?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I watch more cartoons. So um that's so that's when KTN was very good with so many cartoons. Um and you see now we're coming from a point where we were leaving school at uh afternoon around 2 p.m. So here you are, you're like um, so I still have to stay around and still bear with that and stay. But then at four you'd rush home to go watch your cartoon, Johnny Bravos, um, all those. Um I can't remember most of them, but they were so good. Um, but but but now getting to class four wasn't a very different experience. It was just okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

So you're still going at home around midday.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

No, no, no. So at uh from class four onwards it was at 4 p.m. Okay. Yeah, with the rest of the school, I think 3:30 or something. So that's what we do. Um, yeah, so um at that point most of my attention uh was on the TV now. Okay in the house. Okay, okay. So it was watching a lot of things, a lot of TCMs.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

How does that change your perspective about life now that you're more on TV than out there with the other kids?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Um it's actually the reason why I wear specs today. Screen time. Oh, for I mean, yeah, so I would I would actually sleep on the on the on the on the on the seat, um, you know, watching the remote. Um one one thing I have to give credit is um how how how how how my mother brought us up. So she was always keen to get us like the best things, um, regardless of the environment. So we were ahead of other kids in terms of um awareness and knowing ourselves. So so when when when this uh colored DVs game uh came out, she she she got us a good ninja. So I would waste so much time on that. Um so now the perspective is it it it was sort of like my introduction to tech, yeah, because now you have all this world out there that uh you don't see in the book in class. Because um yeah, I I would say there wasn't much to excite uh my my my mind while in while in the class to do your homework quickly. Um then you see also this early exposure with um with adults uh gives you a better head start in in consuming content. Yeah, so yeah, so that's that's that's how things were quite interesting, man.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Like uh, yeah. And and by this, actually, these DJ movies were a thing. Yeah, which was your favorite uh DJ voiceover?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

No, there were several. I mean, there was uh there was a guy who came before DJ Afro.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Tell me, uh maybe I have my own guy. Yeah, maybe he's the guy, but he died.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, who was he?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

DJ Churchman Soft.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

No, no, no, there's another guy who was actually bigger than Afro, I think he was into inspiration, but but obviously we have been brought up by DJ Afro. Um especially people know Afro more, yeah, especially because it's a generation which um that was our internet, that was our YouTube. Yeah, so you had uh this 24 in one uh VCDs, the DVDs. So and they were DVDs, yeah, they also would have uh would have more than one um whatever file. So and um yeah, yeah, that guy was a hit. Still is uh it's it's a big deal. Um to our entertainment, going to those video shows, uh, with pay five bop. Um and then now the upgraded DSTV became decentralized. So now you have the STVs in the video shows, and guys would watch football for like 20 bop, I think 30 bop. Um, but yeah, so it's it's it's it's it's interesting how um um communities find ways of entertainment and still um you know make business out of it. Um because yeah, so so we'd have that. Um but I really I don't think we ever had those CDs in the house. Uh but DJ, we'd watch them on the road or would sneak in those videos. So I was very tiny, so I would like sneak in those video shows. Yeah, there's like a very thick curtain and sneak your way into the front and watch.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah, actually, after this, I'll play you DJ Cheche and you compare with what Afro is and I'm invested in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that guy actually did proper voiceover without so much shenanigans. But he could actually um you know break down the movie to an extent that you feel like did he get a synopsis? Yes, uh how come he understands his movie more detail than the movie itself, and he used the local context. So you used to travel a lot a lot. Actually, I uh someone was telling that story, I think yesterday. Yeah, so he used to travel uh a lot, like you could go to Nakuru, uh do a gig there, the same way music DJs do, right? Yeah, yeah. But for him now it's for movies. So the main the main location for these DJs is always Nakuru and Nanyuki. Those are the two main main locations. That's where most of the even Nafro comes, I think, from Nakuru. Yeah, so most of these movie DJs either come from Nanyuki or Nakuru. So there's this lady who used to have this uh movie hall. So you used to have these equipment, and then guys could come there, get trained, or do the voiceovers. So you used to juggle, then go to Machacos and other places. So most of these movies, yeah, when you went to explain and and do voiceover, you use the locality and the local culture. So you can imagine when he's in my ukambani, yeah, the things you would say, especially for romantic movies. It was crazy, man. It was crazy. So he gets to go yeah, but yeah, uh unfortunately he passed on when he was really young, so most people don't know him, but it was really, really good. Yeah, I wish we had DJ Chiman Soft. I'll play you is uh one of his clips. They are rarely to be found because they used to use those uh yeah, the VCR video cassette VCR, yes, and nowadays uh transforming that into digital is quite ectic. Yeah, so um you start now even watching movies now that you have time in the house. Which were like your favorite uh you know characters growing up? Is it an or Rambo?

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Um I mean we had Rambo, I think Rambo was the most um common and notorious guy at the time, and then we had Terminator coming in, and then uh we had uh the likes of Bolo Young, you know, and and and Jackie Chan. And obviously we'd we'd we'd go and simulate that in the field while playing in in primary, yeah, yeah, and become because you still come. Yeah, so now you wanna beat everyone, yeah. I mean, uh and and and that's all growing up. I think I think we miss that a lot nowadays in terms of kids actually being kids because parents want to be very uh protective and uh to an extent overprotective, yeah. So and it

Hardship Lessons & Academic Drive

SPEAKER_00 22:30

it it stills a bit of um learning for for for for a child.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, grow running, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

They actually we actually learn on your own and and and find your way out. Yeah, um it's it's it's it's it's useful later in life, yeah. Because um and and and and and and it's probably why you hear that whole we which I don't believe in, why a students work for C students. Um but but the basis obviously is because you find very bright kids who succeed in in like in academics uh not uh trained to face failure or handle failure.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

So when everything is so sheltered and shielded, then you you are insulated from uh actual experience, yeah, which people fail, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so and and which robs a lot of innovation because there's nothing will that that will come out you see with the first hit. So yeah, um, yeah, so so it's it's it's a different time, um, obviously. Yeah, times change. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

So at what point in your primary school do you now say, okay, KCS KCP is around the corner? You did KC KCP? Yeah, I do KCP. Nowadays I can't ignore some of these details, man. Like CBC coming up. I'm like, oh I have to be very sure. It's called KPC, yeah. So it's called KPS. Yeah, that's what they're calling it nowadays. Yeah, yeah. Uh maybe I might be hosting some of those guys soon. You know, I've also realized years are moving much faster than I thought. Uh yeah. So you you realize when what time did you realize that KCPS coming? Maybe I need to get my you know my shit together and focus, or this was no brainer, like it's KCP, not for choice.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

No, so um it's an interesting thing that happened. Yeah. So when I was in I think it was it, I think it was in class four, um, now heading to class five. I I was a very playful kid, like I never took anything seriously. Yeah, so I wasn't keen on studying, um I wasn't keen on um like you know um what's going on. So it got to a point um since uh so realized that my my my my bro was like two, three years older. Yeah, so he was like three classes ahead. So he was going to do his um now when I was joined to class five, he was getting to class eight. And I would I mean I just told you just to watch movies all the time and waste time on the TV and make noise. Yeah, um make noise because I was like, dude, let's hang out, you know. So um so my mom had to ship me um to to to to to to to a boarding school in Yahuru. Oh yeah, that's crazy, man. Yeah, so that uh this other kid can study.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, it's one weird place. It was a one, yeah. Probably coming from Nairobi.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Probably explain some of the things you've been asking me, but I know that's an easy joke. So yeah, so Nyanguru formed us. Um so we went there for class five. Uh then for class five and class six. Um I got bored um with boarding school, so it was uh it was a very rough experience. So this is uh coming from Nairobi, it's two, three hours away. That time to around three hours away because so far the road was so poor. Um, so there you are in boarding school, you have to you know wash your clothes, you have to wake up very early. Um, that's I I think that's the point of the moment where I realized that I'm actually in school. Was in class, right? Yeah, yeah. All along I was just uh passing time and you know um shooting the stuff. Um so yeah, we are um we we had uh really crazy. So what did you do um in the school?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah, now that you realize, hey man, KCPA is coming very fast. So do you start studying more? Do you start even you know, you know, going for preps and be serious about it? No, I mean preps mandatory. So yeah, but people go there and sleep.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I know, but uh or go there and make noise. So for that specific school, um, that was not an option. It was a very tough school, and it was among the top schools um at the time. Um but the cost of uh the the top marks was was very high. Okay. It was also the reason why I just told my mother I need to shift and you know go back to where I was. Um I came back, but during that time we were there, we'd wake up, I think at 4:30 or 50 in the morning, yeah. In the morning, and it's very cold. Junguru is very cold place. So we'd wear the slopes of Abadeas, they were literally in uh under Abadeas and near Mount Kenya because we were near a place called Equator. Uh yeah, so towards um um is a place called Le Shao. Um, it's a very cold place, um, and sometimes it gets very dry. Yeah, so uh it it was a very tough experience.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

So, how how long did you spend there? One year, two years? Two years.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

So I didn't actually finish two years. So uh so these are primary kids, uh school kids, and we do cross countries. Oh, yeah, interesting. How many kilometers? I can't remember, but it was long, so we spent maybe like an hour running around the school, and everyone will have to finish. Everyone has a chance to participate.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Uh you are you surprised that you are really fit nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 27:29

No, I mean, uh I wouldn't want that experience if I had to beat it again because we'd we'd actually run very um far distances across the area, and there were very big fields. Um yeah, yeah, it was a weird experience. Uh during harvest, we'd go to um to beat the beans out of the sacks. So it was it was a very messy. So the school itself had a farm. Yeah, it had a farm.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Okay, and you are the guys who are farmers.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, we were the we we were the we were the AI.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So you guys even used to plant?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

No, no, no, we didn't plant. So during harvest, now when when the beans were harvested and they were in the sacks, we had to like beat the beans out of the pods, um, which are dry, and it was a very dusty affair, yeah, very hard, hard, hard, hard, hard labor. So and we were still having to wake up early in the morning. It was a messy place, man.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Like they they gave the soft the soft life guy the hard, you know, but not really.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I mean, so so here we were with kids from other places also the Nairobi kids were few. And you had kids who were coming from around the area and still complain. So it was it was actually towards a little bit of a bit of um illegality. Um but I mean, probably why it's it's it's so hard to you know um to uh to teach a me with a with anything with any situation because we were hardened, we were broken, we were too young to even realize that's what uh was happening to us, and we'd still have to perform.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Let me ask you, Tago, these beans, are you the one who uh you know consuming them after harvest?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

No, it was our food.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Then why would you complain? Where do you do you think beans come from heaven?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

I know I mean, um, this is a private school. And you're paying fees so your parent has paid fees and um you you should be studying, maybe that's the time you should be playing.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Um, come on, I mean, it was uh there are limits to these things if it's um just once, just to experience it, it's okay. Um as like a lesson, at least if it is structured in the curriculum, but not as in you have to finish all this batch you know to go back to school because the field was far off from the school. Um yeah, yeah. So um it and and and and remember we used to be whipped a lot because um so even having a 90 was not enough, 92, 98, it'd still be. you know, um beaten.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

So uh so some yeah so Kango let me ask you something so how did you pitch to your dad and mom your dad was was also there right yeah how did you pitch for them to now bring you back to Nairobi? How was that conversation like?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

No I mean at this point now um my folks are disparated so I was just my mother. Okay. So um and I mean we are very cool with her. Probably why I'm still able to do innovation and and and and still do startups she really gives um uh me space and she's uh that's how uh she's brought us up so um here she was in visiting day um she should come for all visiting days we'd sit there eat chicken and likes and the favorite days in in primary yeah and actually boarding schools not even primary school for us for for for primary school kids it's too much so so yeah so so we talk and and I'll tell her what's going on so this time I just told her yo um now during holiday when we went back because we'd go back um to Nairobi on our own we did have like the school didn't have a school bus. So you use the public school to nuclear shuttle yeah yeah yeah 20k yeah no no no it was only nuclear when it was the time okay yeah so we'd get onto nuclear maybe some other matatu to get you to nyaguru town you get a nuclear to take you to uh to uh nyamakema okay so that's and and and and so that's uh that actually so I I started using public transport that time uh so I figured out my way around town um so this time when holiday classics time two I told her yo um this thing is too much you know um I just want to be around home um yeah I'm I'm tired so you are a kid who is tired okay yeah so so she she understood she was so the next time now uh during opening day for term three we delayed um went like I think two days later or a week later we picked my stuff and and and and that was it I went back now to uh Kojinka um now my bro I think had finished class eight or something yeah so at least a solution had worked okay so yeah you are your your bro now finishing class eight he performed well yeah you see now my mother so there was pressure for you to also perform well yeah uh and also now life is difficult in Auru no I mean yeah it was so terrible and and now you're back home at least you have some some semblance of normalcy yeah so do you go back to the same same school yeah we went back to the same school and now but this time you are a bit serious now this time I yeah and this time

Choosing High School: Mangu Realities

SPEAKER_00 32:30

I knew I was in school yeah yeah yeah so now I'd already been hardened um um or in a in a sense I'd already also been given a head start yeah in understanding also other religions in the country so there are things we would study in geography yeah so you'd already seen them it's in the Lift of Valley going now to the school yeah um other tribes as well um you you so so in equita as well so it could wear like the the the Kamaj stick um is is floated around so so um so here I come back um uh still taking my study seriously um now I was I was more serious because before I'd left I there's no time I was ever number two in school yeah oh but before you left you are from class one or you always topped yeah that's why I was playing around then you went to Nehururu you you found guys who in your I was still top so yeah I would still top but it was also very tough no position one but maintaining it was crazy maintaining it was hard so there are times it would be position two three okay so it was a very tough school so you had always so they are bits so that's why I came back now a bit you know uh you realize this world is so now realize that's a Kenya and the Kenya is big and they were of course there are guys who are smarter than you yeah and and and they're guys who actually um can challenge you so like um the world is not very um it's not all for you it's not flat you know it's not it's spherical yeah yeah so actually probably yeah that that that's when you realize the what the the world is the the earth is not flat so um so you come back um so now more jazzed and more supercharged because now you see these kids I'm like you you are still kids you don't you haven't seen what I've seen it's like I've been to war yeah so yeah to anger them so I'd give them ranges of up to 60 marks like the second person is coming with 60 marks to work on yeah I was a menace yeah so like because I was like yo you haven't seen a fraction of what I've been through yeah yeah it was so because also did that also give you the perspective of KCP yeah given that everyone in the country is doing the same exam and you had to stand out. Yeah it did so um so the realization of now that we have a thing called Kenya and the other kids as well in this Kenya thing you know and it's other life than Kwanga yeah and then there's a life now beyond where you should actually you know um put in all that you have so um and and and I so so this experience were very humbling you know so um to to no I'm laughing because to an extent I feel like we should even end the podcast because I think that's yeah you know but yeah yeah but but but here we are uh now um I took my study seriously um I did revision seriously um yeah so so um yeah and and and and that's how I I I realized now I was in school yeah and then uh you did your KCP yeah you just Kenya certificates of certificate of primary education yeah um and you you you you sort no I mean um you see now you're in a position of high expectation yeah so this kid is always passing um uh you know um you have all all the support from from from from from your uh from from from from from your parents at home uh from this from the school from the teachers so um that the there's that pressure to actually succeed yeah um it's positive um obviously uh we we if if if you're not fully aware then it it it can get to you so yeah um I took it in stride uh yeah uh did did what I did you performed really well I did what I did no you can't go you can't go to mango if you did what you really did you performed really well yeah yeah yeah you know most uh most guys yeah and I think uh maybe that generation could relate that yeah most guys wanted to go to Stare Alliance Mango you know uh Kabarak so those were the schools when I was in class three uh my mother wrote to Griffin of Stare so because I think she yeah so she she was like I I have a special kid whatever so she wrote to Griffin uh for stare to uh get me an admission in Stare Center yeah yeah that was in class three but did in class three when I was in class three yeah that's when my mother wrote the letter five years to go yeah but she was preparing you for stare yeah and you know stare by then was a big it was a big deal yeah it was a big deal more than even maybe alliance because because you see Griffin was still around I found that so it was a very big yeah um but now when I went to Nyanguru that's when I I I I sort of um cultivated my interest of flying and you know being a pilot. So that's when I was like this school also mango um it's a good one yeah pilots yeah yeah there's aviation the the president was there as well so so it was it was which president Kibaki oh he started in mango yeah so there was that uh and a war he as well was there he was a vice president you did that research before or you knew when you joined no no no he knew before he joined okay yeah you see now this that is in class seven class eight class six classics okay yeah so because that's when I actually said this is a school I want to go to okay yeah and started working towards it what did your mom say when she heard that you are changing from stare to man no I mean I it's not a bad deal it's not like from stare to it was coming yeah if it was too guys or something then that would have been a discussion yeah yeah like what's wrong with it yeah what the hell yeah but but yeah um she she she she was happy um especially also because I really wanted to be a pilot growing up yeah and study you know why pilot you know I mean it was it was a thing you know you are you're you're in the airs yeah you know not so many people get there so obviously and and and and we had this KQ program oh yeah I know which was really guys to South Africa for so you see that was also good uh inspiration because you hear this other country called South Africa yeah you know and uh Kenyawis was Kenyawis yeah it's not the Kenyawis that has been now Kenyawis Kenya is bro no it's coming back obviously no not coming back it has come back yeah like those guys made I don't know 10 billion yeah in profit which means maybe they can buy a few more no for sure more than no but but you remember that period when KQ wasn't dented and the brand was still sold two years ago no one wanted no I mean no one wanted to buy this pilot was striking every week and the guys getting fired and getting poached to Qatar Airways and the JP Airlines we you should probably be thankful to Kenyawes because we have Spot Perser you see Karori left KQ because of the frustration he was a pilot oh he was yeah so then he started Spot Person so maybe you should be thankful to but I'm not a fan of Betty I'm just missing yeah but yeah so um but also a bit biased because um he also went to mango so mango fellas yeah so um so yeah so so so there I was I took I took my my study seriously classics um I really wanted to get there and so you you passed your KCP properly yeah how many marks did you get man I know I mean I passed you must have gotten 400 plus I know I mean I must yeah yeah yeah and uh did you got an invite or yeah so that's the only invite you got or you got other invite from so obviously you get all other other funny stuff which other which other invite did you get if you can remember um you I mean I yeah there was mangu then there was no you didn't get like two other national schools the others were not the other ones uh the closest would have been Dago Dago oh Dago is still good still is still very solid school Nairobi school and interestingly I'd wanted to go to Nairobi school before I knew mango Nairobi school is solid bro so um so yeah patch yeah so patch patch uh so there's patch as well so so here you have oh you invented also in patch so there's yeah so the patch thing has like uh yeah mango it is yeah so but but but but interestingly um if I hadn't gone there I'd probably have gone to ditches oh yeah not even Nairobi school I really like DJ's schools for the culture you know ditches of digites it's like free will free spirits yeah ditches of teachers man like yeah and also yeah so um yeah yeah so we went to this school in Thika which was very dry um so before you went to Mangu did you know how dry it is or how the environment is I'd never been to Thika before so when you went there it was also a culture shock yeah it reminded you of Nyaururu no um it was a better version of Nyaururu okay yeah so first day please paint it paint it up for for us to see you have reported with your box yeah and your parents so here you are and your invitation letter so you uh first obviously uh from the gate to the admin block is a very long distance okay at least for a class eight uh kid so here you are you have to like uh and it was term marked as like this school has tamark you know from the gate to the admin and then now you're looking for the mango you don't see the man okay like it was a very nondescript school uh very unimpressionable school you see today they have a very big building uh admin block they have a good amphitheater yeah at the time we only had um something smaller than um Africa's talking building yeah as the admin block yeah it was a very boring thing oh yeah it was very discouraging so this is mango like I could have gone to patch no yeah because I was like it's pretty well if you get to patch you find this big building with white columns you know it's fancy no no no bit yeah you know but but but now Angali this uh you know experience you get into this famed school yeah it's very dry start even doubting is this the place where these all these no but then you're like probably they have something they're hiding so there's also curiosity yeah there's that curiosity um so you get in um obviously you're checked in um um it was a rough experience yeah I I I don't think there's any Kenyan who's had a good high school experience I think they're a couple they're very few if they're any yes because it it it it really messes people it's where you grow up um I mean most of us grew up in high school so teenage years most of them are spent the formation years so it's it it yeah it really does a number on people yeah um yeah so you reported you're left there yeah were you monolized um there's no monolization it wasn't a thing it was a culture yeah so no one monolizes you no it was a culture or you have to be no naturally it just happens oh it just happens it just happens so you have from ones and from twos we'd have different we had different uniforms than phone threes and form fours okay so that already shows that already shows the distinction yeah this distinction and obviously now the new um yeah so so from ones and form twos we'd have um shorts uh blue shirt uh maroon tie and and and and sweater now when you get to foam three and foam four that's when you're given a blazer trousers gray trousers white shirt

Competition, Culture, and Identity

SPEAKER_00 43:30

um yeah so it's a very different then it shows you now you have matured into the system yeah so so so those who are called seniors and the seniors had a different route from the dorms to the classes the juniors had the longer route from the don't you can't go through the seniors because obviously you can be seen your uniform you have shots that also teaches you discipline yeah I mean it it just teaches you order and not to take shortcuts yeah it just teaches you order because I mean you'll obviously be seen so yeah so the most popular forms of punishment were pressups oh nice yeah so you just do lots of preservs um driving around and it sounds like you didn't like working out and stuff no i i mean i i was I was tiny yeah you know so I I didn't like it yeah um um so I but I still did it because I mean that's the that's the way of the school so did you get punished a lot in the no formative years no yeah so what was monalization in MAM um was it intellectual was it yeah so there's a very element there's a very big element of the intellectual beat yeah um but just as in any any other high school at the time uh monalization was there's some places that it's really bad you know I know yeah people get sodomized monalization which is crazy no we've heard that might change your whole life no I know we've heard of these cases um but uh I I didn't hear we any when I was in Bangu so you you see also interestingly that's that's an introduction to cultural society when you get to that school society is not that cool so no no no not in that regard so you have this school um where it has attracted the best of the best in the country yeah so obviously you won't find some behaviors or some mannerisms that are not so um aligned with like people would ordinarily be the best so the the the the the the the conditioning there was very competitive so the environment was extremely competitive okay yeah so so even things that were done actually were to showcase yeah it was just it was just a competitive and um yeah yeah surviving that four year thing is not for the week honestly so we we usually have this comparison between mangue and bush and and and trust me like yeah man is in on its own league so it's very hot in the uh in the afternoons like extremely hot um synthika yeah actually those you know we're talking about mangui yeah you can actually easily miss it yeah now that we have the casupayan the in the hair so for those who don't know mangu mangui is just directly opposite to weight it's in weight the yeah I would say the most upcoming town suburb yeah yeah that is very it's growing very fast you pass there yeah you don't pass there for one year you go there you're like what yeah what is this still weighty yeah so for those who know which is becoming so popular before you get to thicker town just the opposite that's where mangways yeah yeah and it's not even even nowadays it's not well fenced it's it no it's well fenced it they they have a good perimeter on so the old boys uh maybe then maybe they they did fencing uh recently because maybe three years now yeah three years yeah yeah because when I used to that that's my way home it didn't have a used to be our fence by the way yeah yeah it was just it was just yeah it was a rough school you could miss it you see also um historically this is a school that was meant for um for not for the colonizers kids and so it was for Africans oh yeah so that's the history of the school how are they able to build it to to that standard so this is a missionary school okay so the original vision was to start a college okay so it was called Holy Ghost College yeah holy ghost college kaba so it was in ukambani uh that's where now they shifted it now to thicker where it is okay so the the ukambani uh mangu is where the likes of Tomboya went out the thicker one oh yeah I never heard of that story before I've interviewed a couple of mangu alumni uh but I've not heard that story yeah yeah so that's that's that's the basis of the school so it was it was initially started to be a college okay so obviously even in the thinking so and and to serve by Catholic missionaries Catholic priests and and they had a very good structure so you had and and and and the school had a good relation with the I think Dayton College or University of Dayton in the US yeah which is big with aviation so that's the aviation link now to Bang yeah so most guys actually end up going to Dayton University.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

No no no no so I mean the linkage was not actually very few people know about the link oh okay yeah so most people obviously um went to you know the Ivy leagues yeah the ones who went to the states yeah but it's to the flying link most people went to the air force and and and Kenya's yeah so obviously we have a good number who are among alumni yeah yeah yeah interesting man that's yeah you see now why this podcast is very important to give that background yeah because now there are a couple of things that actually and this is what I realized with Africans our stories actually man they're they're either vandalized they're not well documented yeah and there's so much actually people if they understand even guys who have gone to mango maybe they don't have some of those details yeah yeah which is very very important um and many other things that actually that would be so you you're in in in form one in form two yeah where you wear shorts and you find now uh the climate of the country or part of the you know best of the best in the country yeah how did you perform um it was hard um it was very hard how many students were there first form one in our class we were all four months were around eight no no no not eight hundred two hundred two hundred okay yeah yeah like 50 per class for four streams for four streams obviously today I hear it's like a thousand and something yeah for one for for one yeah for for for just one year yeah but do they have more structures yeah they have more structures a big compound they have a very big line we need to visit them someday man like you know I mean I feel like we should I visited Alliance some some time back with a friend of mine no alliance is underwhelming and no I mean we were cultured into that so when when we're in for more there are only two schools in Kenya it's mangu and the rest yeah so the rest things bush guys might not take that kindly but anyway no anyway so I visited them um and for obvious reasons I also find that smart guys also focus too much on books which is is a good thing and also it's not a good thing. It's a good thing because you understand life from the perspective of science and facts.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

But it's not a good thing because life is also evolving right and you need to also combine the real life dynamics plus now the knowledge package it and now deliver working solution for people and and you being an entrepreneur among as many other friends that we have around the developer community you know we've been debating this yeah should we be start now introducing maybe i schools to writing code and and and this could change a lot of things and of course I want to start from the topic right uh the guys who I'm sure if we go there and and do hello world they will never forget yeah and they can take it to the next level uh and then it it just the repo effect of the community can also apply in high schools so if these guys go back home they can actually teach other guys how to do it or introduce it and of course the rest is history so that's the perspective I have but of course after this we can you know uh and even going forward we can exchange thoughts on how to do some of the outreach also given now that uh education is changing so that means maybe I don't know if guys want to go to high school which now becomes uh high school high school what will they be learning there because I think they are trying to change things into practicality so no longer you just study science as a science but also you applied more of applied biology applied science you know before 844 there was now that where people studied up in class seven and then when you went to high school you studied applied science applied physics applied mathematics and I think even the aviation part of it was started basically because of that because why would you study physics aviation and uh aerodynamics as well if you don't see these engines and how it works uh you guys had uh uh which which course mechatronic so no we had um power mechanics we had um so that was a weird school honestly and and and and and and and yeah it was a it was a weird school in a good way so it prepared us very early uh for life yeah yeah especially guys who um went to uni to do engineering so um so we we so we had the the technical subjects we had were uh electricity power mechanics aviation technology um we didn't have woodwork uh but then these courses that we were doing we would do like um technical drawing oh nice you know so with the t-square you know like with the T square thing you know drawing on a three size page to just even design a screw so yeah so yeah so that was like a question for a cut so how can you design a screw using uh whatever um the tools uh the geometrical tools yeah um you had power mechanics the guys would like work on engines um and had to like you know have they even had their own workshops um so so so so it it it gave us a good head start yeah um and then now um but to the thing you're mentioning about um high schools and and what uh students can do so we already have some of these things already um so you have science congress and you have uh Jodie achievers yeah for business guys yeah so um I would say there's a lot that we miss so uh JA is probably not um like a main thing because it's pro it's it's also not uh uh supported not really support but it's not originally from the government or from this uh system so but something like Science Congress is a very key component in innovation yeah but but but what what happens is that we miss a lot of what um can be done there so like there's no follow-up after that those presentations yeah but I've never seen someone actually present uh uh a a programmed solution maybe a now they're there nowadays they are so so they're there um so from my experience we did a project you know so my project was um was on piezo electricity so piezo is that tech where when you apply pressure you get power so that thing in uh in kids' shoes when they step they have like lights so we did a concept to have uh to power street lights on tarmac roads to have like piezo yeah so you have piezo in the lair so now it would store on on some battery in in in between the roads yeah then now power the lights at night so that that that's something we presented in in in science congress yeah yeah and and obviously you had like other brilliant projects you guys didn't go up to nationals no we didn't yeah I was surprised so we got I think to regionals or something to provincial or something yeah so we didn't go past that um um but it was a good experience nevertheless because we we we had to like um write a proper concept also about what we are doing um have a short demo yeah um like so we so we had to like um type it out um in the comp lab i i I wasn't very keen in in in in typing so it was my colleague who typed who did it yeah yeah so I I mean I I

Exams, Pressure, and Perspective

SPEAKER_00 55:00

I was just this detached kid or this a little kid so which part did you do presenting or so the designing phase so we designed it together you know the ideation but now having to type it on the comp.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I you know I so uh I hadn't um interacted with like computers um as much yeah the only computers I'd seen were in the cybers okay okay so this uh so this this friend of mine had a comp at home obviously so um so he was good in in typing yeah so so that's that's the only reason why I didn't uh type but um but also so we had to like create charts and have those charts presented now to the judges when you go to the uh to the competition so yeah so so it was a it was a fun it was a fun gig so which which is like what we do in business nowadays in teaching yeah yeah you know so these things prepared us very early so so so we ignore them and and and and and obviously they they they play a very big role in yeah so there's also another friend of mine who um who who uh cleared high school way um later than I did um but his projects in in science congress were IoT yeah interesting and uh some hardware staff yeah some good hardware staff for um helping the disabled um in terms of um you know audio auditory access and he was awarded um this year and even last year by by the president so he won the presidential innovation award interest so he went all the way to nationals or no no so this is after actually high school so you followed through with the project that's his startup now okay so but he was just tinkering with those things so I I think we should also look at who these kids are who do a science congress you know because there's a there's a there's a good proportion that we miss of Kenyan innovation yeah yeah yeah people are more excited about drama festivals yeah yeah he also did all that by the way so I was in Koral Korovas yeah corovas yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah me I went there for girls so I mean that was the only reason to go beautiful ladies beautiful wherever you are by the way Kenya has okay Africa's beautiful ladies but Kenya music festivals yeah has the most of the beautiful ladies no lies and for me actually was like you know yeah I'm from a boys only family so for me ladies is seeing beautiful yeah ladies is fascinating and uh also interesting and of course at that point I was looking for girlfriend I don't know you know these things how did it work out oh I had a lot of girlfriends okay pen pal let me not call it you know nowadays you say you have a girlfriend people think a lot of things yeah high school is just you have a good time writing letters someone who writes you sometimes calligraphy I I used to be paid to do that stuff my friend yeah but my writing is all good but when you pay me to do calligraphy I'll do the job yeah and also had some perfume some some powder yeah the writing part oh man yeah high school was a whole package I didn't go to mango though but yeah mango guys came to me and patched guys who you know that those guys who uh get expelled from from mango yeah all these uh national school they used to come to that school I was in they used to consult with me oh where don't you name it like no it's uh St. Pius Seminary the 10th okay so it's in Kobo neighboring to Kobo High School most people know about yes because uh there are a couple of guys who have come there but Ross seminary has produced most of the uh cardinals in the country biggest priest uh bishops all right just this size i was i mean this is I was almost becoming a priest yeah it's my story I'll tell it one day you like the no it's the story I'll tell because if I start telling now it becomes this podcast because me and because about me and it's supposed to be you man yeah but no not worry one day I'll tell these stories I keep saying this to all the guests who come because every time I mention about my life yeah everyone wants to know what actually happened we should probably have a fireside chat with you with so many people and then you'll be the guests oh man I'll then I we should all maybe even question will I even be able to tell yeah but it's interesting uh and the reason why I'm mentioning that is because people also are conditioned to think that having a girlfriend is wrong you know getting excited because you see beautiful ladies it's the way God has made us if we believe in God if we don't believe in God it's fine whoever we believe in that's okay that's it but the point is there is a reason why we have male and females and it's it's not something you can control it's not something that you can hide and think that doesn't exist. So for me going for these festivals number one I worked so hard so that I don't miss because you see when you are doing a play yeah you have to get all those words right yeah from the screen yeah and be able to express on stage and you know on stage now is all it's all like when you're practicing in a dormitory or a hall or you are dining all yeah so it was quite fascinating even the school that school I was Went to uh St. Pires. Um, we had to start the drama club, my friend. We started all the clubs that existed in that school. And it's one of the oldest schools. It started in 1955, uh, if I'm not wrong, or 56. Yeah. Because we celebrated uh we celebrated our jubilee in when I just joined.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

So that's during time of emergency when Kenya had a state of emergency.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

You can imagine it's our old school school. So uh we had to start those things because also we realized that guys go to church every you could go to the chapel like five times a day. Yeah, man, that was too much for a guy who has come from a public school because that was not the original school I started in. Yeah, so yeah, I mean, and uh we used to get invited to these events by Kenny Girls, if you know Kenny Girls, one of the amazing schools from Embo. Yeah, and we could not be able to go. Insider used to invite us for some of the events, you know that guys from all these national schools came to that school, so they had connections. Insider, man, yeah, and uh we had sons of who and who in that school, so it was not just a simple school, yeah. It was private somewhere, and also oh, it was a private school. Uh those church sponsored, uh, yeah, it was church properly church, even the we didn't have a principal, we had a director. Oh, the it was a seminary, yeah. That's a seminar, yes. So it was interesting, and uh every time I tell this story, I feel like it's something I should actually have have you ever thought how impactful the Catholic Church has been in the Kenyan formation in the world, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

No, but generally in in Kenya in terms of education, yeah. So you find in hospitals, yeah. But it's just educational. Yeah, we've been very instrumental in forming um our leaders, forming us as uh uh in terms of the national psyche. So there's a lot of um Catholic order that has helped us, yeah, you know, because um uh you find these schools were started by Catholics. I mean, I'm not a Catholic, but I've been brought up in schools which are Catholic sponsored, and it has influenced how you influenced how I look like yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

I mean, I've never looked at it that way, but I know Catholic is crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:12

Because even how you do things today, I'm sure it's yeah, it's majorly by high school. I'm a Catholic. You see, yeah, no, no, even before I joined the seminary, I was a Catholic, but still the that high school beat influenced a lot of Catholics. A lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

If I tell you, man, it's a story for our old day, yeah. Uh yeah, so there is that. So, Chief, but if I tell this story, you never get to the next story. So you you go through uh form one, form two, uh, and then you get form three. Did you guys select subjects or did you do all the three sides? So which which one did you do from form three?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

So for selection, um in our year we were lucky. Um so before then, all sciences were composite. Yeah, but then in our year, it was I think the first class where they said you can actually choose two. Uh, I still did all three.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

Yeah. Um, and and dropped some subjects. So um I dropped aviation and geography. So I did history and CRE.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Oh, okay. Okay. Why did you drop aviation?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Um, I really liked aviation. The condition was you had to do geography studies if you were doing aviation in form three and form four. Because they're very intertwined. Yeah. And um honestly, I wasn't a very big fan of the notes in geography class, uh, but I really liked history. Yeah. It also had a similar amount of like copious notes, but I really loved history. Yeah, you know, so geography has like this thing has so many notes to write, yeah, uh, so many things to remember. But I thought history is the one that had a lot of notes, but history came naturally to me. Oh, okay. It like it was just easier to remember. Yeah, yeah. It was just easy for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

What do you think about the grades uh for KCSE?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

That was part of it, but also part of it was experience. So it's like I don't want a lot of work uh by writing notes in geography. Um, so I sacrificed aviation for geograph for history. Okay, yeah, because if I had done history, then that that would have meant uh history and job, and I would have had to drop one of the sciences and I wanted to do all this. So that's that's how it came to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Okay, yeah. So there's some people who have decided to do construction. Maybe our producer will check it out. See if we can inform them that we can hear almost everything here.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

I know it's it's not it's not so bad for background. Oh, background uh noise. Okay, okay. If you say so, no, no, it reminds me of you know workshop days, you know, yeah, but but yeah, definitely. Um here we are, we choose our subjects. Um, from three or foam four, you do your thing. Um I would say things got was it easier or harder? Maybe I think it was a weird experience. Yeah, it was a weird experience from your selection, no, no, not even that generally, because you're growing up, yeah, you're knowing yourself, yeah. Um, you're actually um getting out of your boyish nature, yeah, and get so much going on in your structures in your system, now becoming a young man. So it's a metamorphosis that's very rough, uh especially in an environment where everything is very competitive.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Everything is competitive, like so.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

Oh man, I feel like you see also to a point where um I like yeah, if if you are weak willed, yeah, you shouldn't go to such a school. Yeah, no, no, you shouldn't go to such a school because it it it's easy for such environments, highly uh demanding environments to break people, yeah. You know, because um it's it's it's like performance at it's it's like being at E10. Yeah, what is that E10? No, I'm saying at E10 where you have all these uh marathoners, all these elite athletes or E10, yeah. Yeah, where all the winners of marathon in the world come from. Yeah, so where you find um I'm sure there's so many records that have been broken in E10 that have been broken in like official records, yeah. So that's the kind of environment you're in. Yeah, you know, like so, and and still you'd find guys who would be best in sports, best in school, best struggle. Yeah, they don't look like they're struggling. Some struggle, but you'd still find them, you know, all rounded, you know. So like freaks of nature. So it it must have been tough for you, man. So I doubt I'll be in an environment as tough as that ever. Yeah, ever. Like after that, I can feel for you, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Like I can see you, yeah, wondering.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

I was always tough, but here I feel like I need to do more. So you really had one person being number one twice. Yeah, really, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:59

Well, me, I went to where we had some. No, you know, like here. There is a guy, yeah. I keep telling this story. I think we should was that guy. Yeah, he's now I think a pharmacist. Yeah, so um what kind of a pharmacist? No, a qualified pharmacist, yeah, yeah. Not the pharmacist pharmacist. No, the this guy who is uh who was who ran for president, what was his name? That one yeah, he's all that kind of pharmacist. So this guy is called uh Joshua.

Post-High School Architecture Apprenticeship

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Yeah, Joshua, when you listen to this man, we need to watch you because you to some extent you fascinated. There are two guys who fascinated me in high school. One of them was called Samuel Wakwe met him a few months ago. He is now a businessman, he did industrial camp. And this other guy, Joshua. So Joshua, this guy here in form one. He was like almost number almost at the bottom, out of I think 100 kids or something. Then from form two, he starts time one is like number three. Number one. Yeah, no one else has ever been beat that guy after that. Ever. Yeah, like you know why me. I came in form three. So I was like, okay, who is the top guy? Yeah, who's the top chief? Yeah, chief, top chief. Number one, they actually the school I was in, they never covered the syllabus. You study like a quarter book and then get tested from that. So it's easy to pass. Then I come here, guys. Finish all the like that's from from form two, they'll finish it at uh term two, and then use the rest of the time to revise and to go back to form one and form two. And you know, most of these exams KCSC half of it or 70% comes from form one and form two. Then the rest of the staff, it's called what paper two, yeah, which is like 50, 30 marks come from now the rest of the thing uh of the coursework. So like that's the chief. Then we did a cut, the dude gets 29 out of 30. The second guy is getting 25. Yeah, already that tells you a lot. Yeah, then we do the end and uh end of the term uh exams. Oh man, the guy always gets 90 95 in a mother paper that you're struggling with, 60 to get 60. No, you have not covered the syllabus, it's really hard for you, yeah, to really perform. Mock paper, hey man, you were like, Okay, yeah, it was not as tough as mango, but you have to rethink how you study. Do you need to go now back and cover all these things on your own? So, and and for him, actually, he never struggled with anything. Yeah, he was not the guy who you see always book. There's another guy who used to book book war, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:53

Like 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

But but but interestingly when you're leaving uh preps, he wants to remain and study. Yeah, that guy never slept in Audit Bowser.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

He used to be number three, but struggling, like uh he forced it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

You see, the way you see uh let me use cars for those who know cars. There's a car that will just move swiftly, yeah, elegantly, it's not like even you know, it's going to at a 200 kilometer per hour, but you when you look at it, it's not like a mine, yeah, it's not yeah, yeah, it's just moving, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Sliding through, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

Okay, sorry to use Toyota, but yeah, it's making a lot or even more bikes, yeah, it makes a lot of noise, but it's not just moving anywhere. Yeah, a boxer bike. Yeah, you you find that one actually doing it, but it's very struggling. Yeah, so we had those characters, and then remember some of some some guys, of course, uh came from other schools. Of course, the guys who performed were originally from that school. Uh, and it's interesting how you got invited in that school. There was no like going to select them, whatever. They just gave guys letters, went back with them in the parish. Yeah, and then whoever wants to join the joy. They joined uh nice. There was no at you we are going to select in the education office.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

But that's how Catholic schools are parishing. Yeah, most of the president.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Me, I was surprised because I knew okay, you have to be invited here, but also that's an invite.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:15

So for you, by the time you're doing KCSC, what was what was running in your mind?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

Um, I was already a messed up kid. Um I mean, so um as as as as I mentioned, so things are moving very fast. So it's a phase where like the four years was was was very short. So to a point where when you start realizing yourself, um, you are in form three. You know, when you start realizing what's going on, you're in form three.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

So you uh but uh on the other side, you've actually enjoyed the experience, you've made very interesting friends, yeah. Friends from all over the country, you start realizing the other like other tribes that you've never heard of. So you become more um attuned to yourself and also to society. So um even with the trips that we'd make, you know, you'd go to school. Yeah, so they're very eye-opening. Um the the the background noise is distracting. Yeah, it's distracting, yeah. Um but yeah, so so so so there we were, um, or there was um now uh using like foam three from four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Towards KCSC mostly. So towards KCSC, um so we'd have all these interesting guests coming to school. So some good old boys, um, some some pretty powerful people in the country, in the government.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:42

Um that is informed form.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

In form form throw out, actually throw out, but mostly now in our last two years.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

But of course, they when they come, they meet the seniors. Yeah, so mostly, yeah. Yeah, because it's more useful meeting the seniors.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:55

Yeah, no harm to the juniors, but yeah, it's you you your mind is more ready to understand what they're saying. Yeah, so yeah, so we so so it was that so where you actually get to see all these other different careers, you know, you get to interact with these people who are professionals, you get to hear how the world is out there. So you had programs where guys were being encouraged to apply to US for uni, um so uh for I mean, so to prepare for ACTs, so you are it's also they prime you early to you know to get ready for the what is required, yeah. Yeah, so for the standard admission test by the US colleges. So you have like guys revising for that um at home, not in school. But but but but but you're already now aware of where do you want to go, where you headed. Yes, you know. So so we had a joke where we called um uh J Cot is a very school, it's a very good school, yeah. Um, but obviously in school, because it's it's in Thika, it's the closest um institution we had near us, like uh uni. So we'd call it Mangubi because a lot of Mong guys went there. So if we don't want to go to Mango B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Obviously, everyone else wants to go to Jacquot.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

It's a walking distance actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

Yeah, we like the experience of Thika Road. You remember Thika Road wasn't built then. Yeah, so it was a tough experience going to school. And then the solar when now you're in in school, yeah, you don't uh really want that environment again for another four years, yeah, or six or whatever years. So um, so there we are thinking our life choices. Um, yeah. So so that's that's that's that's what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

Um yeah, and then uh KCSC comes. Um were you prepared? So um or were you in this state where you have accepted, you know what? No, I was very prepared.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

No, no, no, no, I was very prepared. So um, first of all, you see now you're in a point where you have to think about your future, you know. So you now um and and and to a negative sense, obviously, um um these tests are geared to a level where you're told all your life depends on this one test. You know, so uh can make you or break you, yeah. Which which which really does. So you can imagine the the interesting scenario where you come from such a school and you don't have a very good grade.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:15

Yeah, so even the guys who actually get D's from MAM, uh not in my time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

But but but in like top schools, yeah. So you have like C pluses, yeah. Maybe there was maybe a C P but a C plus.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

Do you know what we used to say about those guys? I I don't want to know, but of course, you also understand some of these schools, alumni, yeah. The guys who get pushed through, it's not that they qualify to be there, yeah. But one way or the other, they they just found themselves there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

No, but there are those cases, but then there are cases where you find people who have their own issues, okay. Um so so I mean, before you even started this conversation, uh you remember we were talking about genius and madness, yes, yes, yes. So it's a very thin line. So you'd have kids who'd actually go and blow up. Wow. Yeah, so the pressure, the pressure actually gets overwhelming. You'd have kids with uh schizophrenia, yeah, you'd have kids with proper ADHD. Yeah, so and obviously when you get uh to exam time, yeah, their grades won't reflect who they really are.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

It doesn't mean they're not smart, it's just something happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

So that's why I can't really say that they are they are they were forced to be there. Obviously, there's those cases, just as in any way in society. Um but obviously it would be it would be unjust uh doing blanket uh you know um analysis on them. So um, yeah, uh that's not a very easy environment for anyone, honestly. Um, it was also obviously also tough, probably to the to the admin as well, because you have um to also maintain the history of the school, yeah. So it's it's not easy to anyone, yeah. Yeah, so um I'm even forgotten the question.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:53

Um the question around preparing the KCSC, were you ready?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

No, no, no. So I was ready, yeah. Uh but obviously you'll never be ready for an exam. Yeah, but I was I was just ready to get done with this thing, yeah. Yeah, I was I was tired enough. Um, I was like, yeah, let's just get done with this. Um, yeah, so sad for papers. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:14

People used to revise your exam papers, no, you know, and and also big deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

No, I

Pivot to Tech & Strathmore Entry

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

mean with the maths contest as well. You you see, um among you the school that started the maths contest. Yeah, oh really, yeah, that's that's the home of maths contest. So Bush would come there, start a so the maths the so our maths contour, you would say if you get five out of thirty, you really passed. It was that crazy. Yeah, it would it's I still are you guys doing like engineering math or no? I still believe to date it's it's the toughest maths contest in the country.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:45

But where do you pull your questions from? Is it engineering math?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:48

Um to date I I I have no clue.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

But they not come from high school.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

No, but the teachers we had were interesting teachers. So you had so you had some teachers who are also part-time lecturers in J Quart.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:59

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

Yeah, lecturing maths.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

I see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:01

These are like PhDs and also teaching us maths.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:04

So we had we had a weird uh you know uh collection of of stuff. Yeah, so you had um guys who are done med school just want to teach. We were teaching biology. Oh we we we had we had a very interesting uh mix of training that that was done to us, yeah. Yeah, that was very different. So we in a sense, even finishing high school, we were a bit ready for life. Ah you see that whole age college thing that uh the that the school was founded on, where kids from there can actually be ready to start in contributing to the country. That's that's that's actually probably what still gets carried on because yeah, you'd have alumni coming back to also probably teach, yeah. You know, um who are in who are in uni, who are probably um uh doing education or something, yeah teaching. Yeah, it was it was it it it wasn't it wasn't a normal school, yeah. Um yeah, yeah, honestly, like it wasn't a normal school. Um one of the aviation teachers was in the air force. Um yeah, we had we had combination, yeah, yeah. So you do your JCSE. Yeah, do you pass? Um, I mean, um you get an A? Yeah, so so so I passed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:15

Got an A?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:16

No, you didn't get an A. A minus. I got an A minus. It's an A. Yeah, which is which is an A. Which is an A. So, but then you see the guys from Bush will disagree. No, no, no. No, I know. Um, but then the pressure of um coming from a national school and it being an A minus, not an A. Minus is fine. No, I'm just saying from the now what the system did to us.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

Oh, you feel like you didn't pass.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

What you're hearing me even say right now is what the system did to us. What?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

Yeah, yeah, minus is it's still fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:44

No, just still fine. It's it's it's it's a very it's a very strong read, but still, uh you see now where you're coming from, the school, and I'm like, Ulipada. You know, yeah, and and and and and and obviously it's you know, like it's it's it's it's work, it's one done, but um coming from that environment, it's very you know, like and and and and to an extent I was tired. Oh, okay. So getting now, so uh remember I'd started school three years earlier. Okay, my like formal education primary. Yes, so now getting to uni to high school, not even uni, I was already getting tired. Yeah, I was getting worn out. Back to back, yeah. So you're always studying, you're always performing, you know, it's crazy. Expectations, and you're still a kid, yeah. So I was tired. So for me, I was just tired. I was uh almost burning out. Yeah, it's what I'm telling about the environment. So it's so people bribe and want to get their kids as we saw even this year into top schools. Uh, but if they really knew or if they really why or what goes on over there, yeah, um that they would actually pay for the kids not to go. No, seriously, like it um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:00

But how many people realize that uh life is not a competition?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

No, life is a competition, even right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:06

You see, what you are saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:06

I would say I would say it's a competition against self, against yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:09

But how many people realize that? Yeah, but yeah, to in terms of for me for me, actually I have a different uh school of thoughts. Yeah, life is not a competition, and once you realize that actually you move, yeah, very fast.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:23

But you're competing against yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

No, you don't have to compete.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:26

Okay, collaborate, yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Why would you compete?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

Then you see a minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Yeah, why would you compete?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

Yes, or with other people, even with yourself, yeah, to get better at what you just want to get better, to be a better human being. You're not better than you were yesterday. But are you not improved? That's evolution.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Look at it this way, yeah. And this one thing now I learned from seminary. Yeah, you're here now. Are you better or not? Leave alone tomorrow, yesterday, I don't know, six minutes from now.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

So I don't compare it with anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:03

Yes, right now, are you better?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:05

So, if I'm not comparing it with anything, then how can I use the word better?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:09

No, you right now, I are you good.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

No, if I can't compare it, then I'm I'm I'm I'm I I just am company.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Forget about a few minutes later, or anyone else. Right now, right now, right now, you are here.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Are you okay? Not even okay, I'm here. That's all that matters. I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:25

You see, yeah. From that point now, you start now realizing wow, if I had this podcast with MK, yeah, actually they I feel good. Okay, I feel actually even reflecting about my life. Then maybe a few minutes from now, you meet someone along the corridor. Yeah, you pitch your idea or you talk about something, and they will show you something that you didn't know. You see, now it started becoming collaboration, yeah. And you realize actually everyone has something to offer. Now you start looking like from that collaboration instead of oh, you know, I'm better than this. Maybe I wasn't better five minutes ago, you know, I'll get better tomorrow. Yeah, and you start becoming this, is it now you start even enjoying the moment. So, in a sense, um uh contentment, uh you're more happier, yeah, you're more you're more fulfilled. And and I'm not saying just relax and you know people might confuse that by saying, Okay, relax and wait. No, no, no. I'm saying be present. Yeah, if you're having this conversation, this is what matters in the world. Yeah, that's all that is. Yes, and what I'm saying is my truth and I stand with it. Yeah, I might forgotten a few things here, but it doesn't mean uh life and death. And uh, if I five minutes later you say something better, it's fine. You realize wow, life all of a sudden changes, and even when you don't have, when you have more, when you have less, it doesn't make any difference, it's just that that moment that was the situation, and that situation can change, yeah, but you allow it to happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:04

I mean, situations always happen whether you allow them or not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:09

You see, you see, that's the point because we don't exist, yeah. We don't exist in isolation, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

You know, we have other things happening around us, yeah. Um, yeah, and a good thing, maybe a good example.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

Yeah, look at even the guys who do national exams from national schools, yeah, and all of them get A's, yeah, A's of maybe 99, even let's make it better, 99, right? So all these guys can make it 99, yeah, yeah. So, of course, the guys who get proper A's, like no debates, yeah, it's just they couldn't get 100. Like Gandhi's, all right. So they all apply to I don't know, Princeton, I don't know, Harvard, you know, MIT. Yeah, if that guy doesn't go through, they think they are not better. Yeah, do you see now how what competition does? That's what it does to your financial rest of your life, yeah. Thinking, oh, you know, I wasn't better than this guy. Yeah, and it's just because at that particular moment, yeah, the nature chose that person who qualified, yeah, and nature chose you for something else, maybe even better.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:11

Maybe you didn't even wake up on the right side, you know, or maybe you're not even waking up, it's just in the way things were at that particular point.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:19

Yeah, the person was looking at that application, yeah. They made that decision, not based because you're not better or you're good or whatever. He thought this is it. Sometimes even they never looked at people apply for jobs, people apply for different things. It doesn't mean because you don't get it, yeah, you are less than the other people, it just means for some reason maybe life chose you for something else better, or something that actually you deserve, and then you start now looking at the world collaborating, whereby you see Hedy, you don't see Eddie or Anto Gro, or Eddie went to mango, Eddie went to Stragmo.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:59

Yeah, but Hedy as a person, yeah, who is yeah, who remains after all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:04

Yes, that's one thing that I learned from seminary that every moment counts. Yeah, regardless, even sometimes you might sit still and meditate. Someone might say you're wasting time, but reflecting on yourself is something it shows you you are, yeah, and you don't you don't judge yourself harshly because maybe if right now you get a stomach, we do go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

No, we will just chill.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:28

We just chill, yeah, but doesn't mean now you are useless.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

But you see, it's it's probably the the the the the the the the the the the the the the opus day um training or or inspired training that that that I've been uh a bit out of touch with which uh especially probably because it's it's still Catholic, yeah. Um of reflection, meditation, actually being in tune with yeah, yeah. Just uh you um and and and and I mean um if if you've hold your demons in us, then now you can

First Coding Lab, Real Clients, First Paychecks

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

start talking to God. Yeah, uh yeah, because um yeah actually you can talk to God, you know that. What can you do?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

God can only talk to you, but you have to listen. But why it's an interesting uh psychology or philosophy, it's still con yeah whereby yeah, you know when people pray they say they are talking to God, yeah. But ideally, what you are doing is just expressing yourself, but talking with God, yeah, yeah. But if you listen, yeah, and that's why sometimes reflection and meditation is very important. Yeah, uh, for those who are listening, this is a lesson you had that you learned the hard way because people pray and expect things to happen. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's but God does not do anything because you asked like a command prompt, you know. God is not a computer, yeah. So rather, what you're supposed to do, God always knows your situation. If you pray, if you don't say anything, he knows the only thing that he's looking for is free will for you to accept.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

No, but then I mean, um, there's there's there's also the chance of us um having self-will, you know, um and and our own uh will to chart our life path. So true. Uh absolutely and and and and and and obviously the the the space we operate in in terms of like time is obviously very different from from divine um uh divine space where you'd probably um tell something to God or ask God something, obviously his response or answer or feedback will obviously differ because you're operating from different spaces. You're physical, he's not physical, yes, you know, he's all knowing and all that. Um so it's the you're still left with your own self-will, you know, with your own will, which um even God Himself doesn't uh go against. Yes. So um choice is still a very big determinant of where people are or where people want to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:59

You know, so because you you might be in a very sorry state, and if if you blindly apply the philosophy you you are you you're talking about, then you will still remain in that sorry state because you don't think you have the choice, you just think it's it just is you know, things are just happening to me, and I should just chill and you know flow with. I mean, they say only dead fish flow with a river. So I mean, so let me tell you something. I'm saying something very powerful.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:29

Yeah, it's just that uh you need to take a minute, uh just a few seconds, yeah, to uh decipher. You know, there's there are different ways of uh processing information, and one of those is yeah, where you have something and you take it from the face value, whereby it's exactly how it is. How it is. I'm saying whatever you do, yeah, keep doing it, yeah. Right, but also whatever you ask, wait for the response. Oh, true, but it doesn't mean sit and And wait, according to the process, yeah, allow to go to intervention. For instance, I'll say you have a startup, yeah, which we'll get to in a few. And maybe you're looking for funds to scale and all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

You have this pitch you have sent to hundred or a thousand uh investors. Yeah. Who do just chill and wait and wait for them to keep sending and refining them.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:25

No, and actually you keep doing your job, not waiting, not sending us just keep doing your job. Absolutely. If they catch a money, it's good for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:32

Assuming you're actually you have built if it's a platform, you it's complete. Yeah, if it's uh customers, you've already engaged them. Yeah, if it's uh you deal with farmers, right? You have talked to them, you have gone to the societies. Yeah, you cannot force them to say now we are using your platform. Yeah, we'll get to that. You understand? And it's very interesting. It's a very interesting analogy because also I've seen people actually get impatient on when things should happen. Yeah, but to some extent, we are in control, but we also have to allow other free will to be in place as our free will to be in control as well. To be in control, yeah, it's now that's where now God comes in or the uh the higher being, right? Because interestingly, one thing I learned in seminary is that God cannot intervene where you don't want him to. Is that Yani? It's okay. You would think what you're doing is fine. I bless it. Go ahead and do it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So, in that sense, uh, you find a lot of things actually become more collaborative, and that's why I love communities by the uh whereby if you are more than 10, everyone brings a small piece. So, if you were able to put that piece together, it becomes a big thing beyond even what you could imagine. But what if you are the one who thinks this big deal? Yeah, you can only do one person, so much, yeah. Yes, and you can even burn out in the process, yeah. But when you realize, oh, Eddie can offer a solution in AgriTech, that guy can offer backend, that guy can offer front end, that guy can, and that's how company UI. Hey, that this guy in design, yeah, marketing. Yeah, you see, now when you put that together, it becomes a very big part of it. Yes, so besides that, um it's good to actually have talked about that because it will determine a lot of things that we'll see afterwards. Uh you graduate and you you uh you join uh Stradmore, no?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

Uh not directly.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

Okay, please tell it's your story to tell.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:43

No, you know what I mean. So so so I clear uh high school. Um I really want to do architecture. Um so and um I reached out to one of the top architects um in the country who happened to also be uh an old boy of the school. Um and and and um he gave me a chance. So I I in his farm? In his farm, yeah. Okay. So I was I was an intern. Don't know that that was the right word because I wasn't from Uni. I was just from high school. I didn't even have an ID card, uh, but I was more of um uh KYM. So I was doing everything. Um so yeah, um so so so he he he gave me a chance. I worked in his office um in terms of preparing the documents, the files. So I learned uh uh a good sense of WakiCard, which is a software tool design like architectural um you know buildings and and and designs. Um we did a few projects with him, we go to meetings and write minutes for him, because um the architect is the chair of uh the construction consortium. Okay, so we have all these other professionals. So you have the mechanical engineer, the instructural engineer, the electrical engineer, you have the contractor, and you have the client. Um yeah, and and and and and any other uh maybe a surveyor, quantity surveyor. So all in in one consortium, and um they would have like regular site meetings. So we go to site meetings together, uh see what's going on. It's also inspiring. Um and and and and and you know, so um and and we'd always go with him in every meeting, in every sites, yeah, yeah. So it'd be his KIM to write minutes. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so obviously, um while writing, I wouldn't I would now start understanding what's going on. Okay, okay. So yeah, so so so I I I got a good um understanding of the different areas that go on in construction.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:48

So from um tendering, um, I'd be sent uh there were times I would be sent to take like tender documents to deliver them to a to a to a to a client before like the submission at go also for the tender opening. Yeah, it's just a c uh form for kids. Yeah, so we didn't even have my kids. That is the gap year, no gap year, like um gap months, okay, or a few months in between. So I was I was so busy then, you know. So I was uh yeah, so it's just so even in high school, I was like, when will I finish and start just life? Okay, yeah. How do I start becoming an adult? I'm also just adult thing. So when do I start? So I'd go there. Um and man, it was it was the most impactful experience I had professionally. Uh still remains. Yeah. Of all the things I've done, I've done interesting things in software. But that uh period could be maybe four months, three, four months, was the most impactful I've had. So I yeah. So that's when I actually knew how to type properly, okay. Um, like word applications.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:52

You know, so you used to take the notes on the laptop, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:55

No, no, no, no. On a writing patch and then uh transform them to software. That's when I would write them in word. Okay, uh, that's where I learned how to send an email. Wow, yeah, interesting. So he taught me how to send an email, how to address someone in an email, you know, because he was he's a senior man. Okay, so and he's also a senior professional.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:13

And there's what you learned in school.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:15

No, what did I learn?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:17

In English, you learn how to format letters and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:20

Yeah, but that didn't apply. Yeah, you see, this this this period I took was the most impactful period. Yeah, like um, and and and I've yeah, uh just it just occurred to me because I've I've never given it so much thought, but it really is so that's um so you can imagine how to write an email, um, and also a lot of information coming very fast. So you go to meetings, you have to process things quickly, you have to like um take questions for him, and you know, and and and and follow up on things with him and where this thing is. So I was I was I was doing a lot of things, yeah. At the same time with no job description, okay. You know, so it was it was free

Entrepreneurship Spark & Next Episode Tease

SPEAKER_00 1:37:00

learning. Okay, it was it was literally uh free learning, free education, um, which which which I appreciate a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:07

Uh but how did you get to know these the top architect uh uh they had visited a school? What was the connection?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:13

No, so he had visited the school um interestingly, I don't even remember. So it was he had given a speech um for like an alumni speech, okay, as in as a chief guest in uh price giving day. Oh and then you extend no no no it just followed up afterwards. Okay so when I graduated, I found I I I just talked to people around and I was like, how do I get in touch with him? So uh you know, someone got me in in touch with him. Okay, and um that's that that's that's also he was impressed. He was like, hey, this Yankee really uh you know admires what I'm doing and wants to get there as well. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's that's that's a connection. Um, and at the time he was also the chair of the architectural association of Kenya. Yeah, so quite powerful, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:59

Like you go to meet all the big guys in the country.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:02

No, I mean, um it was a good experience, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:06

But do you see?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:07

No, I mean, uh no, you could you can imagine how how far it kicks you ahead with joining uni. Yeah, so you join uni as someone who's already exposed. So all these other guys are coming in from home and and and being babies. No, so you already are you know in the industry it's not you've already worked, yeah, literally, like you already have work experience and life experience, yeah. You know, so um, yeah, so it was uh it was a massive head start, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:34

So Cargo, this is interesting. So for you, I know you believe so much in mentorship and uh and stuff, yeah. And uh on the side, actually, I've talked where you have mentors, yeah, so they're telling you this, you know. Also, you have some guys you are mentoring and stuff who have really gone to do amazing stuff in the world. Me, I don't believe in mentorship, but so I'm a believer of apprenticeship, and I have no problem with anyone who you know believes in the mentorship process, and I have my reason, they have their reasons at this point you got mentored into the industry by the top guy, yeah, who is doing you know, who is head of other top guys? Yeah, did you go ahead and uh and uh join uh the school of architecture? Uh no, I didn't. A D D. No, I didn't. No, there's only I don't know if there's any other school in J Quad. Oh Jquad, they do architecture.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:28

Yeah, J Quad has no architectural program yet. What happened? I do. I mean, um, I think it's a getting bored thing. I got bored. I had to become so obvious. Not obvious. Um, I realized it takes so long.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:44

Okay, how many years? Six years.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:46

Yeah, six years you still have to uh internal become an apprentice somewhere. Um, and I was like, there's a very big distance between me and the money.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:58

And then remember that story where you are an entrepreneur, yeah. Baby of an entrepreneur, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:03

So money is just not being like, when do we start making money?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:08

Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I was like, eh, this thing happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wouldn't work. Yeah, and then you're also tired by these uh 16 years of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:19

Yeah, so I was already also getting actually 12 years. Yeah, it was not like the loop it around, but 12 years, yeah, yeah. So so so so yeah, maybe more. Yeah, maybe because of the two years that you maybe 14 years, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So um, yeah, so so so I I I I I didn't I didn't go to work to work school to A D D or J Quart. Um, yeah, got to Stradem.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:43

How did you get to Stradmore? Did you go and you know ask guys, is this a Catholic school? Check. No, I mean can I do computing? Is did you do BBIT? Yeah, did BBIT.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:55

There's no computer science. Okay, it was only informatics. Computer science came very recently. Okay, yeah. Uh huh. They do computer science then now. So now, I mean, obviously, because of time now, um, the school has developed, has you know, good resources, so now they actually do a proper computer science uh degree. Um for us, it was BBIT, informatics and telecommunications. Oh, okay, yeah, in tech.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:16

Yeah, interesting. So, uh how was it? What was the criteria that you use to join Stradmo?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:22

Um, academics, obviously. Yeah, academics. Um, and um I was I was I was also uh blessed or like your privilege. So I got a merit scholarship. Oh, yeah, okay. Um they invited you from Mangu or um no, I applied. You applied, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

I applied with all your credentials and and interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:42

So you see now I have um uh luckily had some experience or a key. Okay. Um and and and and and um so why and and and and so to your point of not believing in mentorship. Um ironically, to you to to to to your old um it's a mentor who forced me to apply to trust.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:00

Okay, okay, I see who forced me. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:02

So he was like, uh, I've seen something and I think you should apply. And I was like, nah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:07

You have to apply.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:08

Yeah, so he forced me, and yeah, did he whip you? No, I mean, uh, no, no, he he he he he just said that um I I I think you can do more than what you think you're doing. Okay, so just apply. It's a good school. My son went there, so just apply. Oh, okay. Yeah, so and I applied, but he's uh he's a he's a tough man, he's a male. Okay, yeah, yeah, and yeah, so I applied.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:32

You had to say he's a male, no, I mean he's a male to emphasize on the toughness, toughness.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:37

Yeah, but I mean, then go for him. Um he was so so that's that's that's my former reverend. Um, yeah. Oh, nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:45

And you got it. Yes, we got it. Um and I uh you are these terminologies they use as though. Yeah, what terminologies for the best kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:54

Oh uh, like Dean's list or something. Uh something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:58

Uh you've always been the Dean's Dean's list, you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:02

Yeah, yeah, it was so so I get there. Um, yeah, I see this BBAT thing. I hadn't um really taken computers seriously before. Um, I don't lose like computer seriously creating a Facebook account. And it was doing the yeah, which were in the comp lab. So I didn't like really used computers. So as like and I hadn't done comp studies in high school. So I did this thing. Um thankfully it worked out.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:34

Working out is first class, huh? No, I mean, yeah. That's what working out is nowadays. Okay, no, but you know, you know, you know, interestingly, by the way, the guys I who sit where you're seated, yeah, and they have done really well. Yeah, I don't know if they have there's a terminology in psychology where you detach from reality. Someone got a first class or they got an A.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:58

But when you it's a big deal for them, it's all a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:02

I'm like, okay. No, I think it's a thing of always um wanting to improve yourself. Now where? So that's history. What? So you want to, you know, improve your own.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:12

But to go first class, what else could you get?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:14

No, I'm saying like now the next level in life, you want to improve yourself. No, at this particular now, that's why now you remember what I talked about at that particular point.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:22

Yeah, what would you improve yourself to? Um is there like a first class plus or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:30

But then you see now the the the funny thing, um, after after first year uh movie uni, okay so um could um we get sent uh could could you please uh reduce the background uh music. Yeah, it's yeah. I can't hear it myself. So no, I maybe because you used to it, but it's just too much uh so um so so so so now after first year, so we finish. Um I so I guess I can send a letter by the I think it was uh director of research in the faculty. So he sends an email, he says, um you you did well, um, and we are pleased to offer you an internship at at the school. Yeah. So the school had uh several it has several research labs. So one of the research labs um was doing a lot of health um information systems. Yes. So uh myself and um like five other guys, four other guys uh were given an internship there by which we've been taught the year. So we are two from our course, three from the other course. Um and it was our first job. So that's when I got my first job in second year before even joined second year.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:42

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:42

So it was um actually coding. Oh, yeah. Okay, so we had to build a system from scratch for how it was a health uh management system, but you must be very good uh for you to get such a game. No, we learned on the job, so so of course, even for getting selected, you there is something actually they might have they must have seen. They took the top student, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:08

So, I mean, uh, so for you throughout the four years to say the least, yeah, you've always been the top student.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:17

Um I'm not sure, but I mean it worked out.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:21

What do you mean you are sure? So, um is there a year that you flopped?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:25

No, no, not not flopping, but actually knowing who was a top is very hard. So we only knew for that one because he wrote a letter and said you guys are among the top, you know. You guys never get results? No, it was so the the results were on the system, so we have an academic management system. Yeah, so everyone gets their own personal results. So you never know. You'll never have like a public list until the fourth year. Yeah, until fourth year. So you actually know so you would know. Um, so now when you'd become top three, there were uh there was a thing called fee rebit. So a fee rebit is um you're given a discount on your school fees. Okay, yeah, if you become top three. So obviously, number one has a more percentage, number three has a list, uh has a list. So um that's the only way people like signal and know who has performed. So people would know that's like three and three people out of maybe 100 students, maybe no, around 200. 200 students, yeah. So it was it wasn't really there or not there. So um, but you'd obviously know the smart kids. Uh I mean uh you'd always know. So um, so there we are. But for you already you have a scholarship, yeah. So it wasn't really applying, you know. The rebit thing wasn't for me because you know, I had already gotten a merit um scholarship. So I was like, okay, it's it's good, yeah, you know. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:41

Okay. So you get to fourth year. Yeah. And you get a first class.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:46

How was that for you? Um, I mean, even before getting to fourth year, so this one project we did in second year, so we it took us around um seven months, eight months. Okay. Um, it was when Ravel was very new. So we had to learn PHP framework. Yeah, yeah, the PHP framework on the job. Yeah. And the the the the uh the research director told us, I think also the dean or something, yeah, in our first meeting ever with the client. Yeah, so he told us that you guys, your egos are on the line. When you're presenting or before when we were given the job, okay. It was like, we know you haven't been trained to do to do this yet, but you'll still do it. Okay, it was like your egos are on the line. So we had to prove ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:31

Oh, I see. Yeah, because it's like the other guy also was a gentleman, or uh all of us were dudes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:36

We were five kids, uh, five, five, five young men who were given the thing to do. Um we had to design the whole system.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:42

Who was project managing that ourselves? Oh okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:44

So we had we had a faculty member. We learned on the job first. Yeah, so we had a faculty member to um um supervise uh at the time was working on his PhD. Okay, so he was he was a bit busy and uh thing was moving very fast. So we managed someone's is nothing many. And at the time, so so let me just give you an uh like just to understand what we did. So so this is when uh so all this GCP AWS was very very famous. So there was a server on campus that local server, yeah. That it wasn't just local, but um obviously it was open to the internet that we had to provision ourselves, um, so we had to design the thing, so we didn't have front end by all these fancy weird titles people have nowadays. We had we did everything, you know. So you had to like learn on the thing and just get the job done. So which was a big advantage. Um, so to the extent where now you're clearing, um, you're getting to third year, second year, fourth year, you're a bit demoralized in a way. Because it's like you've already seen the end of the movie. So we've delivered, so we delivered the thing. Uh the project was to Clinton Health Access Initiative, and uh they were working with huge yeah, they're working with the Ministry of Health. Yeah, so it was deployed um like on a live server on a proper UI.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:02

I'm tempted to ask how much did you make?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:04

No, you know, we were paid, and and we were so happy because we were paid, we we didn't expect to be paid, yeah. So and yeah, that that money was sweet. Um, yeah, because I was shocked like so I can get paid for this thing. No, it was it was shocking. So even before getting to the fourth year thing and the first class story, um yeah, so after that thing, uh just got into Bia Shara. I defaulted to my settings. Oh no, there's money in this business. So after that, there's money in this thing. So I looked uh for I started looking for gigs. Okay. So there was a friend of mine who is uh um was mentoring me at the time, yeah, and he he was in Bia Shara. So um and and and and and and and and I looked at his business's website and told him um this thing looks bad, I can do a better job.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:52

That's that's the first line.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:53

Yeah, so so he gave me the gig. I did it, and I didn't know how to price it. So I had to ask my lecturer on my lecturer and like, yo, so I did a thing, how do I price this thing? And she's like, I don't know, you'll you'll charge uh them with this money. Uh yeah, I mean, um I I still I still charge um a good amount. That was your first gig that was my first gig outside, yeah, outside now this in tech now. That was like my first gig in tech. Yeah, then after that, um um this same client gave me another job within his same business. It's like I need a scheduling system for my vehicles. Nice. He had like a vehicle rental business, yeah. Uh like a chauffeur rental business. Yeah, so like top of the range cars. Um, so we wanted a way to manage his resources. Um, and he was like, I want something to do this so I can know what vehicle is where. Yeah, so so I did that. Uh that one paid better. Uh well, you know, you should put figures into no, I mean uh better and no, it's actually paid better. It was paid and it got paid. So I was in second year and it was it was six figures, yeah, yeah. A million hours, you know, I mean like hundreds of things. Like seven figures, yeah. Hundred of those it was a good number. Okay, yeah, and I was shocked. I was like, yo, so I can really get paid for this thing. Okay, so in a sense, now you're in a position where you're like, do I even finish school? Uh conflicting. It's a bit conflicting, yeah. So do I install this thing? Um, yeah, but I still had to finish. Yeah, because I was like, um, I need to complete this phase. Yeah, it's important, obviously. Um, because even at that age, yeah, because also, let's say if you want to progress um career-wise, there are places you'd want and and not even that. My aim was to do a PhD. Oh, okay. Yeah, that was my aim, was like, I want to do a PhD, I can't do it without a degree. Yeah, so that's why I actually finished. I was like, let me just finish. Not even because of home or anything. I would have dropped. Yeah, I was like, I'll just finish this thing. I don't want to defile, just finish within the four years. Yeah. So after that, I did that. After that project, I did some few websites here and there. Um, and that's where now I started a startup.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:55

Ah, yes. What was the first startup?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:58

Um, uh it's called Socolote.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:01

Wow. Eddie, yeah, I don't want to rush you because this is quite interesting. Quite, quite interesting. Uh, and you see now these these this this this um says a whole story that you're building here is uh all new knowledge, even for future eddies to come and listen to the journey, yeah, and and all the challenges, tribulations. And actually, even we have not gotten to the real deal. There's a real deal, there's a whole deal, we have not talked about communities, yeah, we've not talked about what you are doing right now, all the startups started then. So I would ask we pause here and then when we come back, yeah, we dig deep. Yeah, because now this is gonna get interesting. Yeah, yeah. Uh thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:46

No, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah.