Culture, Capital & Code: Building Africa’s Future with Grace Mumo and Eng. Yinka Abioye

Culture isn’t a sideshow. It’s the engine that can power fair trade, smarter policy, and inclusive tech across Africa; and this conversation makes the case with lived experience and a concrete plan. We sit down with two heavyweight builders: Grace Mumo, a Pan‑African tech leader who helped pioneer USSD and mobile finance, and Eng. Yinka Abioye, a chemical engineer turned continental mentor who has led teams from pharmaceuticals to oil and gas. Together, we examine why Nairobi–Entebbe can cost more than Nairobi–Dubai, how telcos mishandle promising partnerships, and what it takes to protect IP and fund startups that fit the realities of South Africa’s card culture, Kenya’s M‑Pesa rails, and Nigeria’s USSD backbone.

The heart of the episode is action. We unpack how visas, stacked taxes, and imported platforms quietly tax intra‑Africa trade—and outline fixes: visa‑light movement, harmonized fees, AU‑backed tech hubs, and continuous, multilingual public participation in policy using the tools Gen Z already lives on. Grace details the hard edges women face in boardrooms and deal tables, and why disability mainstreaming must be built into hiring and product design. Yinka breaks down banking that actually grows companies—placing CFOs, delivering technical support, and funding R&D, not just collateral. We also look at brand power: if a Maasai print sells out at $7,000 abroad while artisans struggle at home, the solution is IP ownership, marketing muscle, and buyers who choose local quality before it’s exported back to us at a markup.

All roads here lead to one door: the FESTAC Africa Renaissance Festival in Kisumu, a seven‑day, Pan‑African gathering built to renew pride and accelerate trade. Expect a writers’ retreat to reclaim the pen, a media forum to fix how stories are told, “dinner in the dark” to center visual impairment, a youth summit on AI and coding, film screenings, public health screenings, GBV awareness, and a daily cultural activation from noon to midnight. Bring your food, fashion, software, and supply contracts—and sign them face to face. If you want a continent that owns its value chain and its narrative, start here.

Subscribe, share, and leave a review. Then tell us: what’s the one barrier you’d remove tomorrow—and how would you do it?

Transcript

Welcome, Platforms, And Subscribe

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Impact Masters, where every conversation sparks new insights. Join us as we delve into the stories of extraordinary individuals who are shaping our world. Movers and shakers in tech, policymakers, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and all those whose stories are worth telling. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and transformed. Welcome. And let's embark on this journey of discovery together, Impact Masters Podcast. You can check us out on all social media platforms, YouTube, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, you name it. You can also find us across all podcast channels. Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music. Simply search for Impact Masters, then subscribe, follow, and share.impactmasters.io. Here's your host, Michael Camaffi. Welcome to Impact Masters Podcast in collaboration with Africans Talking Retold Podcast, where every conversation sparks new insights. Join us as we delve into the stories of extraordinary individuals who are shaping our world. Movers and shakers in tech, policymakers, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and all those whose stories are worth telling. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and transformed. Welcome, and let's embark on this journey of discovery together. Impact Masters Podcast. You can check us out on all social media platforms. YouTube, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, you name it. You can also find us across all podcast channels. Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music. Simply search for Impact Masters. Then subscribe, follow, and share.impactmasters.io. Here's your host, Michael Kamaffi.

SPEAKER_09 2:18

All right, all right. Once again, welcome. Uh to Impact Masters uh podcasts in corporation with AT Retro Podcasts, where we delve into Impact Masters across Africa. And uh today we have uh some amazing guests uh in the house, and before we get to that, uh we're gonna delve into who they are and see uh a couple of things that are quite amazing. Some of it is uh news and uh some of it is interesting uh for the Africa and Africa at large. Um something that is not uh right here, let me just fix it and then you're good to go.

SPEAKER_10 3:09

So that's good, that's good.

Partner Intro: Africa’s Talking

Guest Intros And Credentials

SPEAKER_09 3:13

So um Impact Masters uh podcast brings you again some amazing guests in the house, and uh in collaboration with ATE Retold Podcasts. So if you don't know about Africa Stocking, Africa Stocking provides you USSD, SMS, voice, and chat APIs and insight API. So if you're thinking about marketing at scale, if you're a developer business, and you wanna build a business at scale in Africa, Africastalking.com is a place to check out APIs that scale, and you can build scalable businesses on top of it. And as at Impact Masters, just featuring African stories, telling them raw and venturing into what needs to be done in Africa, both business business-wise, policy-wise, entertainment-wise, software engineering, chemical engineering, and I'm I'm gonna tell you why chemical engineering in a minute. Uh, because we have some of the uh greatest giants of Africa in the house today. And without further ado, today we have Grace Mumo who is uh quite a mover and a shaker in the industry, and uh she is an extraordinary leader whose achievement transcends industries and continents. But to note, I can see a couple of our colleagues, uh, which is uh maybe just name a few. She's one of the inspiring 50 Africa Tech 2023, inspiring Africa Woman CEO 2023. Those are just awards. Continental winner media and advertising, one of the most respected CEO in Africa, most inspiring in innovation Africa, best luxury platform in Africa. And on my far right, uh, we have engineer himself, our brother from the West, engineer Yinka Abiy. I'm sure you know my accent is good in Africa. Thank you so much. And this is our chairman, and you know, uh, if you are from Africa, you know a chairman is a big deal. He's a chairman of the Inspire Group, Chairman of Festac Africa Renaissance, chairman of Africa Rugsery Brands and Association, Chairman Carbon Credit Alliance Africa, to name just but a few. He's an American Institute of Chemical Engineers award winner, nominated for USA Black Engineer Award in 1990. I don't know if if I go through this profile, you're gonna say anything else. Let's just let's just leave it at it. But you can check him out on all social media platforms, and this reminds me actually, you can subscribe to this uh Africa Stalking Retort podcast on YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and also for Impact Masters Podcast, just search Impact Masters Podcast on all the channels, including iHatRadio, Spot Five Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and any favorite channel that you like listening to our podcasts. But for the engineer himself, you can find him as engineer Yinka Abio on LinkedIn, Facebook is Yenka Abio, Twitter and Instagram at abioe yinka. So beautiful day, day of the Lord. Without further ado, how are you, Rose? Sorry, Grace. Oh, my bad. Oh, too bad. Anyway, how are you, Grace Mumu?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Um thank you very much, uh MK.

SPEAKER_09 7:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Uh, my name's a Grace Mumo.

SPEAKER_09 7:28

Grace Mumo.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I am doing very well.

SPEAKER_09 7:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

This day of the Lord.

SPEAKER_09 7:32

Day of the Lord. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

And excited certainly to be here today.

Gen Z Movement And Civic Responsibility

SPEAKER_09 7:38

Karibu Sana.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Asante.

SPEAKER_09 7:40

This uh actually, we are at uh Lovington 23 Upper Cross Africa's talking uh headquarter in Nairobi, just for the sake of those who will be viewing this uh later on. And for those who are listening uh to us on Twitter, uh that's where we are. And uh please feel free to share any question you have. I know right now in Kenya a lot is going on, but uh this podcast, as you can see, uh it's supported by Gen Zs, and we stand with the Gen Z to change this Africa. So uh Viva everything that's going on is very, very important, and we cannot ignore the cry of the uh the oppressed, if I'm allowed to say that. Uh so uh maybe I would uh beseech the older generation and the Gen Zs to listen to each other with the intention of addressing the issues at hand because these are our future generation and we need them as they need us. So, engineer uh Yenka, if uh you prefer that, uh welcome to this podcast. Thank you. And uh uh the day of the Lord is here.

SPEAKER_05 8:49

The day of the Lord is here, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_09 8:51

Uh feel at home. So I could read your profile, and it's quite uh extensive if I say, and uh your experience uh you know crosses borders, and uh that will not be very fair to you uh on this podcast. What would be fair is I would love to know where it all started, and we can start with Mumu.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Once again, thank you very much, and uh to our viewers and listeners out there.

Grace’s Journey: Kenya To Pan‑African Tech

SPEAKER_04 9:24

I say this is indeed a beautiful day to our Gen Cs that are fighting for a good cause for the continent, for Kenya, for Africa at large. Uh, we ask you and we continue to support you. But we ask you to do it responsibly. We also ask you to know that you are the future leaders, you are the youth of tomorrow, you are the future leaders, and therefore you are fighting a cause that tomorrow will also affect the youth of tomorrow. So do it with dignity, do it with the right uh approach. And of course, we have seen others take advantage of the situation, and the whole idea, of course, is to ask you to respect the country because if we destroy the country which we so much love, then the fight that you are fighting for will have no purpose and will have no meaning. So let's do it with dignity and respect, knowing that if we destroy, we destroy the future for our children, we destroy the future for your generation to come. So, my advice is to let us all uh be in it for a good cause and to win the cause. Thank you. Um, where did it all start? Well, I was once upon a time a youth, just like you are. And as you realize, and as we've been told, you will not be youth forever. So uh the youth for me, I have gone through transitions uh uh of course uh of climbing the corporate ladder.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

I started, I was born and raised in Kenya, in Nairobi, I grew up. Uh, went to school in Kilungu High, uh in Makueni County, and uh I relocated to South Africa 30 years ago. That is where I'm based, and that's where my family is, and that is also where the corporation um that I lead uh at group level uh is based. Uh, although I am a Pan-African uh leading organizations across Africa.

SPEAKER_08 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

I come from a corporate industry that has allowed me to travel quite extensively across the continent, uh, over 30 countries across the continent. So I understand the continent quite well. I was a pioneer of USSD services across Africa, so I understand that market very well.

SPEAKER_07 11:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

And I also pioneered financial services and financial inclusion across Africa, uh West Africa. So the corporate segment for me is one I'm very passionate because it uh groomed me for the person I am. It gave me the opportunities to understand Africa. It also gave me the opportunity to understand the needs of our continent, both from a financial aspect and also from an individual aspect. I'm very passionate about the continent, without a doubt of that.

SPEAKER_07 12:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

I've done quite a number of things. I love to bring people together, to network, to connect. And of course, I'm very passionate about where the continent is going. We see the leadership at hand in terms of uh striving to see a better Africa than we have come from. And uh what we see from the youth is impactful, it's exciting, and uh we want to encourage as many youth to do it uh and to come out in numbers to fight for what they believe is the right uh for accountability and of course for the Africa we all want and strive to have. Thank you.

Yinka’s Story: Youth, Identity, Engineering

SPEAKER_09 13:15

Awesome. And uh that tells me there are a couple of things that we'll talk about here uh in detail. Uh, because uh you are an award winner, you have built different innovations, you still continue to build your pioneer of some of the innovation that you still use today. Uh, given uh Africa is largely 2G uh still, especially if you go out of the city. So there's uh a huge conversation there. And uh also given that you are visionary, uh, there are a couple of things uh later on I'll still want to know. But also uh in detail uh or in summary, uh I would love to know how was your growing up? Were you guys uh did you have a movement like Gen Z, you know, uh in high school? How was that experience? In a memorable experience. I know it's a long time ago, and I'm taking you all the way back. I can see how you're like, come on, it's maybe over 30 years plus. Uh yeah, but not to worry, as you think about that, engineer, where did it all begin? Wow.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

Well, it all began in a city called Ibado in Nigeria. Back in those days, it was the third largest uh city in Africa. And um, it's quite interesting that you want to take me all the way back that far. Because I can't even remember that far, but I'll pick up one or two things too to remind you on.

SPEAKER_07 14:41

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

Uh growing up, uh, you talk about Gen Z's. You were always Gen Z's. And I think the beauty of when we were growing up, yeah, um, I still show off some of my pictures with afros, with bell bottoms, with Gazby shirts, and with the disco music and all those things, right? Yeah, so it is great to be young and to be to be have what we call the youth exuberance. Absolutely. So for a person that cares for a better Africa, I can't but support what the Gen Zs are fighting for. Yeah, there's an adage in Yoruba, my language, and I'm just gonna say, throw it in English.

SPEAKER_07 15:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

When you fight, you have to understand what tomorrow will be. You can't fight forever.

SPEAKER_07 15:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

So once you lay down conditions, the conditions cannot keep moving. Yes. They cannot keep changing.

SPEAKER_07 15:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

You have to say, okay, this is what I want to get. Once you get there, look at the response of the other side and know uh where we're gonna go. Again, we have to think about our country, our continent for perpetuity. Um, it is it is it might be good for some people to look at the instability on our continent today, yeah, and casually use that against us economically and financially. So when all these things happen, our borrowing rate goes up. Yeah, a lot gets affected.

SPEAKER_07 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:13

So um it is a great thing because the African leaders need to listen some more. Uh, the pain on the continent is across the continent.

SPEAKER_07 16:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 16:24

It is a shame today that uh the roads we had 100 years ago are still the same ugly roads we had today. So that means something is not moving forward.

SPEAKER_10 16:35

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 16:35

Um, and uh our leaders travel around the world. Some of them have homes in some of these countries, so they know what beauty is.

SPEAKER_06 16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:44

So why can we do that? So, I mean, if you want something better, you have to ask for accountability, which is understood. Yes, but it has to be done right. Yes, because as people, we have to continue to live. Yes, and I like what the CEO said. Yes, the youth of the day is the leader of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_07 17:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Uh, I was we were we're talking on the way here in the taxi, yes, and talking to the driver who was a millennial. And the question to the driver was Um, how would you act if you are the next MP in your area? The guy was from Meru, I remember. Yes. And the guy says, Well, um if I don't steal the other guys around me, will steal, so I might as well steal myself.

SPEAKER_07 17:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

So you have to now wonder so even as we we get the new Africa that we want, yes, do we have the right people leading the organization? Um, are other people coming in and using all this chaos to build what we don't want? Yes. So we want a new Africa. We all fight, we're asking for the new Africa, and it's a good time maybe to push the reset button on the continent and make it better for all of us.

SPEAKER_07 18:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:00

So when I was younger, we had our own movement back then.

SPEAKER_09 18:04

We tried to.

SPEAKER_05 18:06

Oh man, we we had the flow. I mean, the big thing was the flow, don't forget back then, right? It was the soul, was the it was the disco time, it was the the but the big part of our time was the whole emancipation or coming back of what a black person is. Yes. Um, I'm gonna take you back maybe a few years before you were born.

SPEAKER_07 18:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:29

Um, I go down to the early 60s. Okay. Early 60s, late 60s, just after 1958, when they were trying to decolonize the continent. The dream was to decolonize the continent, but I don't think we had a lot of prepared leaders.

SPEAKER_07 18:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:48

You know, back then to say we just want to decolonize. Yeah. Do we really know where we're gonna go after decolonization? And after decolonization, our leaders were also being manipulated. So if you remember in history, late 60s, early 70s, there were a lot of uh coup d'etat and government change from one end to the other, because we were still trying to find ourselves. But what was important is that the struggle in the in the US and the other western countries, especially the US, started back at that time heavily. That's why, if you remember the song I'm Black and Proud, that was around 67, 68.

SPEAKER_07 19:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

By uh JB, James Brown.

SPEAKER_07 19:34

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:34

So you know, awareness. It was a lot of awareness back then. Then a lot of these things moved into Africa in the early 70s, yes, especially when we had the the Soweto uprising in 75. Yeah, so you know, funny enough about being Gen Z, I remember in 1975, you had to have again the Afro, so don't forget the Afro every time you look at the profile. Yes, you have to have the fro.

SPEAKER_07 19:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:00

After the fro, your shirt has to say Sowero.

SPEAKER_07 20:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

So when they ask you, as a black young man, uh, where are you from? Because it was more of the African emancipation.

SPEAKER_07 20:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:11

So where are you from? We are all from Sowero. I don't even know you all know where Sowero was on the map. But we're all Sowetwans. Yeah, right? We didn't know South Africa, we just know Sowero.

SPEAKER_07 20:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:20

And there was the consciousness back then, which we all pulled through. But I'll I'll take that into some of what made some of us back then. After that, coming together on self-assurance or self-awareness, you started dreaming of what do I want to do when I grow up.

SPEAKER_07 20:38

Yes.

Hard Lessons Abroad And Career Growth

SPEAKER_05 20:39

I remember when I was a kid, they said, Well, what do you want to do when you want to grow up? All I wanted to do was just sit down somewhere and design a car that when I'm going around and I get into a traffic and I'm tired of staying in the traffic, I can just turn some button and the car will go up straight. And I can go home before everybody.

SPEAKER_09 20:59

Right?

SPEAKER_05 21:00

Funny enough, the car is here now. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_09 21:02

They are flying cars now.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

But that was the dream back then. So, and it was also cool. Yeah, you know, looking at our big brothers and big sisters back then, they say, What do you do? I'm a doctor. Okay, don't know what it was, but it sounded cool. Yeah, it was sound and cool. Uh, what do you want to do? I'm an engineer. So one day I'm like sitting down going, I want to be an engineer. Yeah, right, because it sounds good. Yeah, well, I mean, you gotta get good grades and all the other stuff, right?

SPEAKER_09 21:25

Yeah, at what at what age was this?

SPEAKER_05 21:28

Uh, these things come early, and and I would say this because of the oil in Nigeria in the 60s, early 60s, it allowed a lot of us to dream big. Because there was money on the streets back then in the country, but you don't even know what it is, it just sounded good. I just knew I wanted to be an engineer, whatever that is. Yeah, I just also knew I wanted a car that can get up and fly.

SPEAKER_07 21:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

Um, so when you get to school now, they have to tailor you to what what that means.

SPEAKER_07 21:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:58

So they would say, if you want to be a mechanical engineer, what is that? Okay, the guy that does mechanic or those pipes, right? You have to have uh physics, math, and some other subject, right? You know how those things are the science, those the direction back then.

SPEAKER_07 22:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 22:15

So I remember they said, well, I have to have physics, uh, I think the other one was chemistry and mathematics. So when I got into school, for some crazy reasons, I was very good in chemistry. And I finished all my chemistry classes so quickly that it was easier for me to get a chemical engineering degree. Still engineering than to dream my dream of building a car.

SPEAKER_07 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

So that's how I ended up being a chemical engineer.

SPEAKER_07 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

Um, but that was, I don't know, yeah, over four decades ago, yeah. Uh when I got a chance to go out of Africa to go to school.

SPEAKER_07 22:53

Very nice.

SPEAKER_05 22:54

Uh, but then when you get out there and you finally realize, actually, I'm gonna throw a story in you because it's a very important story.

SPEAKER_07 23:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 23:02

I didn't realize I was black until 1982. And so why do I say it just like that? Because sometimes in life is what consciousness gives you. So you're not aware of something in your in your surroundings because you're a kid, you just keep living. And I remember being in the US and I was in a post office on a line, and we were the line was a very long line, and uh and an older Caucasian man walked in the door. And to me, where I came from, age is number one. Yes, so I stepped aside and I told the older man to go in front of me. Yeah, and I was like, Oh, that probably in my 20s, early 20s, late 20s back then. And there was a guy behind me that was like 30 or 40 years old, who was an American guy, yeah and knew I was from Africa and started yelling at me and calling me names. That why would you let the guy go in front of you? I mean, it's it's it's the rights, you but you know, and I'm like, why? But it's older. And the guy goes, No, it doesn't, you know, and then it went on and on and on. And that's when I realized, oh, so by me letting this older person go, I I struck a chord of something else and somebody else. So a lot of things happen in awareness when you when you grow. Anyway, yes, I did get a degree in chemical engineering, yes, yes, with flying colors. Yes, I also did the the MBA thing, did very well.

SPEAKER_07 24:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

Um, after that, I went into pharmaceuticals, yes, designed what they call uh IV solutions, intravenous solutions for so many years. Yes. Um, after that, worked in other manufacturing industries, uh, plastics, solvents, and on. Later, I went into oil and gas.

SPEAKER_07 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

Did that for a few years, was fortunate to have sent back to Africa as an expatriate, which is wonderful. Coming back to my village as an expatriate, you can understand what that means.

SPEAKER_07 25:07

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 25:07

So I was really coming home to help home and enjoy being at home.

SPEAKER_07 25:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

Uh, worked all over the continent. I can say I'm I've probably been in almost 85-90% of African countries. I've worked on most of them. I was managing director in a couple of the countries, Senegal and one other country back in the days. I speak some bad French. I can survive in French. Um, and so I've done a lot on the continent.

SPEAKER_07 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:35

So after retirement, uh, let me also step back. So some of these things are where you go in life, is the learnings and things you see on the way. While for 10 years, I worked for an oil and gas company running different types of businesses in Africa. And I saw a lot of pain in my people. The pain is the driver of what we are doing today.

SPEAKER_09 26:00

Innovation.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

Innovation as well as helping your people move up. Um, so so after traveling the continent and doing a lot of things, retirement, I said, you know what? I need to help do put programs in Africa to emancipate our people and get move forward. And that's why we looked and sat back and said, you know, uh, with a lot of stories in between that I'm trying to, you know, in interest of time, we started programs where we said the what I saw by traveling the continent is that Africans don't talk to one another enough. The world has told you uh Ghana is not safe, Senegal is not safe, so don't go there. So you they told them on the other side also Kenya is not safe and it's not good, they don't come. Yes, so you are you will get on the on a on an on an aircraft sitting next to a Ghanaian, yeah, but you don't talk.

SPEAKER_07 26:59

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:00

You you have to be cool, so you don't have to talk, right? Because it's cool not to talk. Yeah, but what you're doing is you're losing the opportunity to come together and grow the continent.

SPEAKER_07 27:08

Yes.

Corporate Impact And Pan‑African Programs

SPEAKER_05 27:09

So when we when I finished my corporate, I call it corporate rat race, yeah. Uh, we got into doing uh bilateral programs to bring countries together. We started with using Nigeria as a platform because Nigeria is what 20% of the continent? Nigerians are very quiet, um, they don't talk much. Yeah, so every African likes to compete against Nigerians, ironically. Especially, especially when it comes to sports. When it comes to sports and other other topics, yeah. So, what we did was we said, okay, let's use Nigeria and pick Nigerians against a lot of other countries and use that as an opportunity for people to come together. So we started with South Africa, we did, and we used and say we're gonna use their nicknames because we don't want to do it too serious, yeah. Because part of the problem as we are thinking about improving intra-Africa trade, we still talk as if we're on a negotiation table. We don't talk like brothers. Yeah, so if you talk like family, things can move further.

SPEAKER_07 28:10

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

So we did um Mzanzi Niger, Mzanzi being the nickname of South Africa.

SPEAKER_07 28:15

South Africa.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

Yeah, Niger being Nigeria. Yeah, we did Mzanzi Niger, we did Ashanti Niger, we did one year of Arambi Niger. Yes, and the game was to put together Those are four countries. We did three countries three against Nigeria, okay, right? The idea was to get people together for like three days.

SPEAKER_07 28:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

They play sports, okay, they hang out together, they become friends. Now, if you're playing soccer and one of the countries don't have 11 people, you take people from the other country, put the uniform on them so they represent that country because it's that competitive.

SPEAKER_07 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:49

Um, 2019, we did Arambi Niger in Lagos with the plan to come and do 2020 in because we do one year in one country, go back and forth the following country.

SPEAKER_07 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:02

2020, we're gonna come to Kenya and COVID eat.

SPEAKER_07 29:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:06

So because of the COVID hit, we couldn't continue. So right after COVID hit, we sat back and we said, you know what? We're all supposed to die during COVID, but we didn't die. Yes, which meant our grandfather's leaves worked, our medical protocols work, and we have to be proud of who we are. Yes. So that's when we decided to say, you know what, let's just take this thing continental-wide, pan-African-wide, and we dug into utilizing First Ack to bring that back.

SPEAKER_09 29:35

Amazing. So amazing. We're gonna go uh even deeper on different uh aspects, and that's the chairman uh and advisor invest and mentor who just uh told us Nigeria or Nigerians are quiet people, of course, quiet people, just like just like Kenyans are the Nigerians of East Africa.

SPEAKER_05 29:56

So before you start digging, be careful, okay?

SPEAKER_09 29:58

No worries. We're gonna talk more about how can we work together with the quiet and the noisy ones and still agree on some things. Grace, growing in Nairobi, I know Nairobi back in the day was still Nairobi, where uh our our brothers and sisters from Congo used to come and perform uh Billia Bell, Steel Kofi, uh Katabongman, and uh can I remember another one? Uh is one who passed who was really good just the other day. The one who mentored Kofi. Uh why am I forgetting his name? But nevertheless, I'm just trying to create an experience here.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I think you're trying to gauge my head.

SPEAKER_09 30:42

No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

And you're not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_09 30:45

I cannot gauge it at all. All I'm just trying to say is how was that experience as a growing young lady? And what are some of the challenges? Because you you you are you are an exemplary lady, especially having ventured into tech the the match you have ventured into and succeeded that much. It could be a lesson that you know, any young lady coming up, even Gen Z's, who could actually learn from that. How was that?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah. Um, interesting that you asked the question of how it was growing up as a young girl in the streets of Nairobi.

SPEAKER_07 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And uh the other day I decided let me just take a walk downtown to see this place that I grew up, how it looks like.

SPEAKER_09 31:31

That Eastlands?

SPEAKER_04 31:32

No, not at all. I mean, my early years, uh I think Nairobi was a fun place to be. Yeah, it was not as congested as it is today. Yeah, uh, places like uh Hallingham, yeah, Kilimani, Lovington, you could never see a high rise.

SPEAKER_07 31:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

It was probably illegal to have a high rise in these areas. And uh grew up in uh in uh earlier years uh in Kamkunji, then into Pangani, and Pangani then was great. I mean, um uh close to Pangani, uh Pangani School and Pangani Shopping Center. We used to go to the movies uh in Pangani Shopping Center, beautiful suburbs then. And uh coming back, I was like, let me take a walk. I'm like, I go to Kamkunji. Gee, I can't even hardly recognize the place where we even had a house. It's all high rises, it's uh malls, it's complexes, and I'm like, okay, let me step back.

SPEAKER_09 32:43

No playgrounds, no marketplace, all gone.

Nairobi Then And Now: Informal Economy

SPEAKER_04 32:47

And I'm like, okay, yeah, let me go back to Pangani and feel. It's now all big high rises. I'm like, okay, really, a lot has changed. But I think it's for the better. It's good that we see the hype. I see a lot of economic boom in the country. My only concern is that I see a lot of orcas on the streets, and one has to wonder what happened to the while while it's good to promote businesses and to be self-employed and all that, I kind of ask myself, how have things really turned to be? Because it's almost like everyone is an orca now on the streets. Yeah. And uh yes, the SME economy is is uh is booming and it's growing, and we have a lot of SMEs, but I ask myself, what can the government do to help centralize some of these operations? Yeah, what can the government do to ensure that the chaos that you see on the street today is minimized? And what do I mean by that is how do we create organized um uh business communities where I mean, and as my chairman said earlier, a lot of these leaders travel a lot internationally. I've traveled quite a lot internationally. Yeah, you go to China, you see the way it's all organized, business-wise. If you want electronics, you know which areas to go. If you want clothing for adults, you know which areas to go. If you want markets, you know which markets to go to. If you want um, you know, auto uh spare parts, you know exactly where to go in some of these developed countries.

SPEAKER_07 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:38

And sometimes you have to ask yourself, is it organized chaos deliberately in our continent to really keep us, you know, to create just the environment that is deliberately created?

SPEAKER_07 34:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Or how do we make change of that to make sure that everybody has a fair share of the boom in the economy?

SPEAKER_07 35:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Uh, and I mean, I'll give you a very good example. I grew up seeing Kareako. Okay. Uh but 30 years later, it's still the same, same, same way. How come, even with all the infrastructure development that we see, no one in government, even the SME sector and the SME department, no one has ever challenged that to see how those traders can be supported. Yeah. To have a better trade more where they can even, you know, uh have um, you know, each one has a store where they can um drive their markets uh digitally, or even just drive better, better presence for that. I mean, you go to carrier core, the carrier core that was till 30 years ago is still the same way. And my question is, and I want to challenge the government, how do we enable such markets to thrive? And it's not just limited to the career core of Nairobi, but also in other markets where growing up we've seen markets that till tomorrow, they are still the same, same as we found them even when our mothers were young people. And those markets have not even been taken care of. Yet, a minister comes in, and tomorrow they will get a brand new car, which is probably less. Or five minutes, ministers have brand new cars, which probably will cost less than the cost of building a market, a good market, just to enable these traders. I mean, we know the boom of economy in our continent today is uh is the um is the SME segment.

SPEAKER_09 36:45

Absolutely. In the economy, it's uh it's a mid-tier business that actually boosted.

SPEAKER_04 36:49

That boost. And if we are we know that, why can't we just facilitate better trade environments for those people?

SPEAKER_08 36:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

So back into your question of growing up, it it was exciting, it was great. Uh cell phones we are not, and social media was not as wide uh spread as it was. We used to go to the booth, dial the number, cring, cring, cring. You know, sometimes if you know you don't have money, there were ways of uh putting a coin, hacking the system, and connecting and having a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

And you walk into the back and you see the queue is there, and you were waiting for a call at three o'clock. Okay, the call rings and the queue has to stop because you have to go in. So it was interesting. Yeah. Um, and when you see at what has happened today, yeah, and I actually remember the penetration of uh of uh the mobile devices because I did see that when those who had money started first by having access to mobile devices, yeah, and they had these brick-sized phones that they used to carry with an aerial as as long as uh the roof.

SPEAKER_09 37:59

For the Gen Z, that looks like a satellite phone. This current satellite phone, that's what was just a normal mobile phone.

Tech Adoption Across Markets: USSD, Cards, M‑Pesa

SPEAKER_04 38:06

And they would go looking for network. I mean, they used to pay for a license to just be connected to have a SIM card. I think the license was like a million Kenya shillings, and then you have to pay like monthly rental for you of like a hundred thousand dollars before you buy the airtime, or which airtime came?

SPEAKER_09 38:24

There was no airtime.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

No, I think you had to be connected to the telecom towers then.

SPEAKER_09 38:29

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

I think I think I stand to be corrected on that, but I think those were the towers which were working, yeah. And uh it was just interesting seeing these technologies. So that is actually what triggered my interest into technology.

SPEAKER_09 38:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

How do I get into this interesting world of technology?

SPEAKER_09 38:47

Well, someone pays a million bob to just be connected, to be connected, yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

So that for me was like the reality check where okay, and how does this device communicate? Yeah, someone is uh somewhere in Nairobi, uh, you're talking to someone in Makueni, they go to a booth, there's no connection somewhere, but somehow you don't have to queue. You don't have to queue.

SPEAKER_09 39:09

They're waiting for your boyfriend's car.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

I I I don't know about that one.

SPEAKER_09 39:15

Of course, I I'm I'm I'm just imagining. Uh huh. You get a nice lady, like uh, you know, uh you, and you say, Okay, what's your number? You're given, you know, home number, which because there was no individual number, and then you're given instruction after getting the number, call at this particular time. Uh-huh. When my parents are you see? Or the guy says, I'll call you at three. Go wait for the call. Have to wait for the call, and that's not even your number.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

No, no, the funniest thing about what you said is number one.

SPEAKER_09 39:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

What percentage of the homes have telephone? So you probably don't have a phone.

SPEAKER_09 39:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:52

And then you get to the point where she gives you the number of the pay phone.

SPEAKER_09 39:56

At the marketplace.

SPEAKER_05 39:57

At the marketplace. So you have to say, call me between three and four, because that's the only time she can go to the market. Go to the market. So now imagine there are 300 people waiting in line. Oh my goodness. So you want to like elbow everybody to get your call at 305, and then the guy doesn't call, which is even worse.

SPEAKER_09 40:13

With the Gen Z's, you see why relationships were respected back in the day. You don't just break up with people, you know, make up with them, break up again, because it's if you get one, you are lucky. But go ahead, it's your story.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

So, so that is really where this interest into technology came in. And uh, of course, I mean, yeah, we were youth, yeah, yeah, we had organized uh movements, yeah. And I don't remember it getting to these levels. Of course, we were there when the coup happened. Uh, we were there witnessing university riots, we were there witnessing uh a lot of uh democratic rights and movements happening in the country. I voted for the first democratic um uh election in Kenya. So uh so it just tells you that there's a lot that we really can learn from, and especially in today's world, which is digital, which is social media led, which is uh, you know, which has probably a lost in culture, in morals, in so much.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

Uh we used to go to church quite a lot.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Today, a lot of people don't even see the door to church because I think churches have also become commercialized.

SPEAKER_09 41:42

The question is Can you blame people who don't go to church?

SPEAKER_04 41:47

No, no, no, no, no, not at all. That's why I say a lot of we grew up going to church today. Yeah, that is not the case because because there's also digital church. Uh, you can read your Bible virtually now, you know, those days, if you don't even have a real Bible, it was an issue. Now I can read my Bible.

SPEAKER_09 42:05

You can get a verse every morning.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

I can get my verse, I can get my motivational speech or talk or uh um, you know, verse every day. So all these things really, you see the dynamics of the world and the shift, yeah. And then you have to sit back and say, wow, how did we do it then versus today? Yeah and it's just interesting to see the transition of how things have evolved and are evolving and continue to evolve, the new technologies, yeah, um, the new drivers who are on the hot seat right now, not just in Africa, but globally.

SPEAKER_07 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

But also, you have to be very, very proud to see how our young Africans have really traveled extensively and continue to pioneer innovation, not just in Africa, but globally.

SPEAKER_09 42:55

Yes. I agree with you, Grace, and uh to the chairman, uh, Engineer Yenka. Uh you know, going to US is one thing. And I know back in the day that was the thing. And you know, you told US is a land of opportunity, American dream, that's when it was most probably coined after World War II. And at this point, you are young and you're in Chicago, Illinois. How did that actually impact you as a person and you know the ventures, the you know, things that you're doing right now, investment, opportunity, advising uh young and upcoming uh companies, uh medium corporate kind of companies, how did that all impact your thinking?

Intra‑Africa Trade Frictions: Travel And Visas

SPEAKER_05 43:38

As you said, back in those days, uh probably still till today, every young African wants to go out there. I have uh with what I've learned, I have I have a thing now. If you are in your late 20s, it's too late to try to go abroad. You you hear what I just said? Yeah, if you're in your late 20s, especially if you if you have a family, it's too late to go abroad. Before I answer your question, I was talking to a very prominent person here in Nairobi. Yes. And the person was flying on Ethiopian airlines a few months ago. And they said they sat next to a 28-year-old Chinese young man, and they asked the person, where are they going? And the guy said he's going to a place called Katzina in northern Nigeria.

SPEAKER_07 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:31

And the person said that they paused and said, What are you going to do? Oh, there's an opportunity for blah, blah, blah, blah. That's where I'm going. It's a very small city. Yeah, you know. You know, Katsina.

SPEAKER_10 44:44

Farther north.

SPEAKER_05 44:45

So, farther north.

SPEAKER_10 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

So the question is a 28-year-old Chinese young man coming to Africa because he sees something. But our own kids are exiting. The same thing it was for us over 40 years ago. But I think even back then, it wasn't all about money, it was more about traveling. I want to live outside. So I remember saying, I want to get out of the country, I want to go out. I finished high school, I had some admissions, but I refused to take the admission because I wanted to go out. End up working for my dad for like three years, so I can go out. Because I know if I went to university, he may not sponsor me anymore.

SPEAKER_07 45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:27

So eventually I went out. But when I got out, I I learned very fast. Uh on the lighter side, before I left, I thought I was the guy, right? So all my clothes, all my shoes. I I remember one day we had a party in my room.

SPEAKER_07 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

I remember invited all my friends and said, just take whichever one you want.

SPEAKER_07 45:47

Ah, you're the ogre.

SPEAKER_05 45:49

I'm the yoga. Yeah. I'm the Igwe. And I'm going to the land of opportunity.

SPEAKER_09 45:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 45:54

So I gave out all my all my clothes, thinking when I get to the US, I'm gonna just find the clothes. Get everything new, clothes will be on the on the floor for free and everything.

SPEAKER_09 46:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

I remember getting in, yeah, and I had to reset. Unfortunately, yeah, that was around the time that it had a very high-value currency devaluation in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_07 46:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:14

So there was no money coming. Yes. So I had to reset. And I went to a city called Chicago, which can be very brutal. Cool. And so when you get there, yes, and you don't have three or four or five clothes at the same time, because you can't afford it.

SPEAKER_09 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:33

I don't know if you've ever been to Chicago when it's cold before.

SPEAKER_09 46:36

Yes, I was telling guys just a few hours ago about Chicago. What month?

SPEAKER_05 46:40

What month were you there?

SPEAKER_09 46:42

May?

SPEAKER_05 46:42

Yeah, May is warm.

SPEAKER_09 46:44

May is hot. It was brutal. Oh, May is hot. Yeah. Because I actually put on all my clothes, my bag was empty, and I'm still feeling cold. My friend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:53

Do not go between December and end of February.

SPEAKER_07 46:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:58

I lived eight years in Chicago. I will tell you one of the funniest stories about that. I remember thinking I wouldn't have to work. Yeah. Because I had some bucks in my pocket. But when I got there, I realized to not lose my uh visa, the student visa, I had to pay for a whole year of school.

unknown 47:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:19

So the money I took out so I don't have to worry about tuition. I paid one year.

SPEAKER_07 47:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

One time.

SPEAKER_07 47:25

Up front.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

Up front.

SPEAKER_09 47:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:27

Now there's not much left. So I had to go to 010. You know what they call 010?

SPEAKER_09 47:32

I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

So I would only eat once a day. Right?

SPEAKER_09 47:36

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 47:36

So I had to go to 010. Eventually I had to go get a job.

SPEAKER_07 47:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:41

So I remember going to get a job, and uh, I got a job somewhere where I had to take two trains and two buses.

SPEAKER_07 47:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 47:51

So which means I have to leave home almost two hours before.

SPEAKER_07 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

So two hours wasted to go two hours there to come back.

SPEAKER_07 47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:59

And I remember this specific day shortly after I got the job, my last bus, I got there like 30 seconds uh after the bus had left.

SPEAKER_07 48:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 48:11

Seconds, I said.

SPEAKER_07 48:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

Because in those countries, when the door is shut, it's the time that's up, they move.

SPEAKER_07 48:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

So something happened. I landed on my my bus to change to the next one, and the guy was just taking off.

SPEAKER_07 48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

And I ran and I waved. It was like 5 36 o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_07 48:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:29

They don't listen to you. Because they have rules.

SPEAKER_07 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:31

Now there was no shops open. So I have to go and find somewhere in a building that I can talk myself into. It was like maybe 5:30, 6 in the morning, and nobody was, you know, shop was open.

SPEAKER_10 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

And Chicago can be brought up.

SPEAKER_10 48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:47

Chicago can be very cold. That's why they call it the windy city.

SPEAKER_10 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:52

So I'm sitting down there. First of all, you have gloves don't work in Chicago when it's cold.

SPEAKER_07 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

You have to what they call mittens. So those are you wear gloves because the middle of your fingers can also freeze.

SPEAKER_07 49:05

Yeah.

Leadership, Policy, And Public Trust

SPEAKER_05 49:06

So you have to put your hand into something. So I'm in there shaking. As I'm over there, snut was coming down. And by the time the snug gets here, it's frozen. So you crack it off. You don't even need to wipe it. You just crack it off. And I'm over there, I'm going, and I just left home with all my clothes, disco shoes, leather shoes, leather pants that I gave away. And I'm over here now suffering. You cry, and before your tears come here, it's also frozen. Long story short, it was a miserable day. And when you get to where you are going, because you never knew that you are not supposed to put your hands on that hot water right away, you want to get warm quickly, you put your hand under warm water. And what happens when you put ice under hot water is it cracks. So your hand can crack. Some people get amputated if it gets so bad. But the joke about it was shortly after my grandmother called me, and my grandma said, Hey, sorry, my kid, how are you doing? My mom doing okay. How is it over there? Ah, your mom was telling me that because she she was not educated, so she could understand something. So your mom said it was very cold there. Describe how cold it was for me. And I'm like, okay, if I say it's minus 60 degrees, she wouldn't get it. So I said, Mama, it's like somebody put me in the freezer and they close the door. Yes, I'm in the freezer. She's still like wondering why would anybody put you in the freezer? Like that's personal, that put is a meaning. It doesn't make sense now. Like the freezer. And then, and I was explaining, and all she could do was we'll be praying for you. We'll pray for you. This will be right. So, you know, when you go abroad, yeah, uh, if you don't intend to do fraud and do all the negative things, and you intend to live right, because back in the days, yeah, one thing our parents tell us is do not mess up my name. So as a child, that's all I have, as a child, that that thing just keeps reminding you. Because as a youth, you get you know introduced to a lot of crazy things. You have to say, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_07 51:16

And it's Chicago.

SPEAKER_05 51:17

And it's Chicago, yes. So, anyway, so with that, those things build who you are. Uh, and also while you are trying to survive, you get to learn different types of trade and different types of jobs. All those things are what build you as experience later. So when you talk, you talk from a reference point. You've been there. Uh, I've worked three jobs while I'm going to school full time. What? So when somebody I tell my people, even my CEO, I said, if I don't do any one more job in my life, yeah, and I just put my feet up and drinking coconut juice, I'm I'm I I've acquired, I've achieved. So when you've done some of those things, they allow you to have experiences.

SPEAKER_07 52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

Uh I always say, before you can advise someone, you have to have been there. So when you've been there, you've had a lot of experiences from coming from that angle, going all the way to being a CEO in an organization. So you've gone through so much, and then fortunate to have done in too many or a lot of industries. So advising the young today, advising the new businesses today, uh, and also the exposure around the continent, taking the time to understand the cultural endos everywhere you go, because those things also affect business.

SPEAKER_10 52:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

So those things come together as value for you to be able to give good advice and say, step this way, don't step this way. Um, you know, much much love to Madame Mariana uh on some of the issues with our francophone countries. Yeah, those things are real.

SPEAKER_07 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:58

So if you are an anglophone, want to go do business in a francophone, the game is very different. Yeah, very, very different. Yeah. So those are some of the things you've learned. And being fortunate to have worked in different countries and different cultures, different languages, different network gives you power to be able to advise in a great way.

SPEAKER_09 53:18

Ah, nice. And we'll talk a bit about that in a few. But uh uh, Madam CEO Grace, now that uh I'm made aware that you're the CEO, uh, you have also worked in the banking industry for a bit. How was that experience for you um, you know, for 15 years uh in the banking industry? And I know banking uh back then is not banking right now. If you walk to a banking or right now, you find two tellers, then each and every counter adds maybe one or two. The one who gives the money and the one who verifies that the accounting is right. Now things are almost digital if you if you think about it, and rarely do people go to the bank.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 53:59

How could you compare that experience? How do you shape you now that you're in tech? And what are that uh change, mind shift that has happened?

SPEAKER_04 54:08

Um, you know, interestingly, that um banking services uh in one country are extremely different from another country. And uh when I was in Kenya, I worked for a bank before I left um uh for South Africa to go study.

SPEAKER_07 54:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

And um and banking was very different. Those are the days when uh even our our team used to go to central bank carrying checks to go and do physical clearing uh of those checks.

SPEAKER_07 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

Um and uh Kenya has always been very advanced in its banking, in the banking sector.

SPEAKER_07 54:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

And then I left and I went to a market like South Africa. When I went to South Africa, of course, I got into my studies because I really wanted to do a degree in computer science. And I really wanted to understand all these technology aspects. So for me, being in tech was was was significant, was like, was my dream come true kind of uh kind of uh achievement that I really wanted to get into.

SPEAKER_07 55:23

Yeah.

Oil, Racism, And Driving Change In Industry

SPEAKER_04 55:25

And uh when I got into the banking segment, I did not work into the banks in South Africa, I was working with the financial institutions. Okay. And uh from a techn technology perspective, is doing aggregation. Okay. Where you work with the telecommunication segment and you work with the financial segments, creating solutions that allow the two to connect and do services together. Services like MPESA. Um, we were we were right looking through those services when they launched in Kenya. Um, looking at mobile banking across Africa, the pioneering of mobile transaction services across Africa. Uh so those that is where my banking experience really comes uh comes in, where I work very, very closely in enabling banks deploy and create solutions that allow them to do um inclusion banking uh for the unbanked across Africa.

SPEAKER_07 56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

And then working with the telcos to enable that banking solution. And still, what we found um in a lot of this is there's still a lot of uncertainties. Even today, you go to a telco, you tell them, I have this solution and I want this solution to connect this bank. First and foremost, the telcos also have their own people, are very trained to whatever solutions are brought to look into that and see if their own people can do it.

SPEAKER_07 56:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

And then they tell you, go bring your proposal. You give them the proposal, and before you know that proposal, they tell you, let's have a conversation in a week's time. You come back in a week's time and they tell you, oh, our team internally is actually doing this. They pull another proposal that's exactly a replica of your proposal, and you do that.

SPEAKER_09 57:16

You know, you're saying something very powerful that actually has affected the tech ecosystem in Kenya.

SPEAKER_04 57:21

It does, it does, and in a big way. I was I have been there, so I'm talking from experience where you go to those telcos and they tell you, and you don't even know how that happened.

SPEAKER_10 57:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

And that is why, for me, number one, the first thing when you're engaging with anybody is to always have your NDA that protects you when you are discussing solutions, when you are discussing of any um products that you're looking at launching into a market, just to ensure that you are protected, to ensure that you protect your IP, to ensure that you also protect what you know. Because uh, you know, it can be extremely brutal when you're young, you're desperate, you're looking for a partner, you're looking for a solution, you don't have the financial uh backbone like they do, and then they just rip you off. And it can be extremely terrible.

SPEAKER_07 58:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

So um that's where my experiences come. And uh I do sit in quite a number of boards across Africa.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

And the first thing that I always advise is that when you're looking even to go into a market, understand your market. Um, one market in Africa is definitely very different from another market in Africa.

SPEAKER_07 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:41

I'll give you a very good example. South Africa, I mean, everybody carries a bank card. Wherever you go, you swipe, there is the point of sale.

SPEAKER_09 58:50

Plastic money.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

Plastic money. Yeah. You come to a market like Kenya and nobody understands plastic money.

SPEAKER_09 58:56

If they don't get an SMS, you don't get the product.

SPEAKER_04 58:59

You see, it's all MPSA driven, everything is digital.

SPEAKER_07 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

I don't even remember when last I saw uh money. People don't physical money anymore. Physical money anymore. And you realize, I mean, you go to a market like Nigeria, it's very, very USSD driven, yeah. Where everything you dial the code and you do your transactions. So markets really vary in one market to another.

SPEAKER_07 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:24

But at some point it's creating alignment.

SPEAKER_07 59:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

And for me, what still really kills me today in Africa is how are we going to enable intra-Africa trade. We talk about this thing called intra-Africa trade.

SPEAKER_10 59:39

But it's just a thought.

SPEAKER_04 59:40

Yet the barriers are just way too prohibitive for anyone to feel comfortable. And those barriers are also exacerbated by things like your travel challenges. I'll give you an example. You want to go to Uganda from Kenya by flight. It's$900. How far is Uganda from Nairobi?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:05

It's uh less than a thousand miles.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

Less than a thousand miles.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

How many hours by flight?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:11

Maybe one and a half.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

To Uganda?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

Maybe an hour or an hour, 30 minutes? Yeah, one hour.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:17

You can spend 45 minutes checking in and checking out.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:20

Uh on air. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:22

Okay, that's less than an hour. Oh, less than an hour. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

And how much do you pay to go to Uganda?$900, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

And you wanna go from Nairobi to Dubai?

SPEAKER_09 1:00:33

It's less than that, maybe$400.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

It's$400 to be exact.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

And how far is Nairobi to Dubai? A good eight hours, right? Yeah. By flight.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

So you have to ask yourself, why are we making trade so impossible across Africa? Why do we have to make we talk about this intro-Africa trade? Yet it's not even enabled by our own policymakers. You know? And that is why, as an organization, we are putting together solutions or platforms that allow us to have these real conversations that really touch on how do we amplify this conversation on Inter-Africa trade? And how do we really become inclusive? How do we get our Gen Z for sure to be part of that conversation? Because it's gonna create unnecessary ripples for the country continent. The other thing when we talk about Inter-Africa trade, yes, travel is one of them. When we talk about travel, why do I need a visa to move from one country in Africa to another? Why can't we just put the necessary measures in place to allow us that if I leave from here to go to South Africa, well, luckily Kenya and South Africa now has created bilateral uh travel policies that allow free ease of movement. However, I mean if you're moving from Nigeria to South Africa, it's not the same. You get checked, you have to provide every document you can think of, probably a DNA to confirm that you are there doing authentic business. Yeah. And it has created a lot of unnecessary barriers, even for those people who genuinely want to come and do business in the continent. So I see these things. I mean, I come to Kenya, I see a lot of South African products in the market. I go to South Africa, I can I can't find Kenyan products. In fact, just the smallest of things that I want to have in South Africa tea, it's nearly impossible to get. You're good. Tanzania. You go to Tanzania, you can't even get it. But I live one thing, the good thing that I've seen in the agri sector, I've seen avocados from Kenya in the market, I've seen peas from Kenya in the market, but that's not it. There is so much that we have across the continent.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

And for me, uh, I think, as my chairman says, we need to discover our continent.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:14

Yeah.

Women In Tech: Barriers And IP Protection

SPEAKER_04 1:03:14

We need to understand our continent. You need to know where you come from. You need to know what the continent is rich in and where you can leverage, take advantage for your own benefit as an African and start driving value even for the continent.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

In the continent.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:39

Absolutely. I cannot agree more, but of course, there are a couple of things that maybe I need to point out. Yeah. And these straight up. So, number one, uh, the reason, some of the reason why uh flight are so expensive in Africa, or so I uh I checked out and saw is that the taxing is done every on each border. And sometimes double or triple or four times the taxation. Because if you see your breakdown, because they normally give you the breakdown of the charges, you find what you're paying just for the flight is it's the same as everywhere else. Yeah. But the taxes that go in there and the platform that we use, we still do not own those platforms. Remember, those platforms are owned by other people who tax us to use those platforms.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

True.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:25

They charge service fee, they charge all these fees. Also, we still not use our you know uh uh you know gasoline for these flights. It's taken out there, processed, then we buy it back.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

It's taken from where?

SPEAKER_09 1:04:41

From Africa and then taken somewhere else.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:44

Processed.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:44

And then brought back to us.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:46

It's sold back to us.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

No wonder.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:48

Now you cannot expect that to change if we do not build our own industries. And I like what Dangota did in Nigeria just, I think, last year, last year, but one, by building that refinery industry, modern wild refinery industry. But also the world again is changing from from uh you know uh oil energy to clean most clean energy. So we need to actually innovate faster. And I like the leap that we did with the mobile money, where we just skipped the plastic money. Doesn't mean that plastic money is bad or you cannot use it, but you see that leap actually helps us to bank the unbanking. That's why Kenya is like 10, 15, 20 years ahead of the time. So there are a couple of things that could be done there, but also leadership plays a key role uh in implementing some of this. Uh, and also it is it is one of the key things that actually drags us back because as much as we get these resources, our uh KQ was almost collapsing just the other day. I don't know why how it's doing because so now again there's that mistrust. Is what communicated to us really what is happening? Or we just gonna wake up one day and this KQ, as I was saying uh yesterday and a few hours ago, that KQ is being sold to some some other guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:02

Now you even After they made 10 billion?

SPEAKER_09 1:06:05

You're not even aware what is happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

They're being sold.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:08

Should you trust the social media? Should you trust the government? Where is that one source of truth? Because our leaders are presenting themselves as they say one thing and then directly something else opposite happens. So I think there is also leadership accountability that is required. And here I'm not pointing fingers, I'm saying, uh quoting the cab driver who said, if I become a minister, the first thing I do is hit. And I know the mentality of most of these people who are out here who are not in the government is to find a way. That's the same mentality because you've been taught again and again and brainwashed that is your time to eat even leadership. If that changes and we create opportunities for everyone, even you, you're gonna hit by not that which does not belong to you. Uh, something finally that I think uh we need to point out is what we teach to our children. And I know this also can go to Gen Z's because you see, for me, one thing I've appreciated about Gen Z's is that their movement is all about change. It's all about what we can do better, can we hold ourselves accountable? We don't have a leader because even the people who, like a cab driver, we could give a chance, they just want to hit. So, what can how can we change this? Number one, let's everyone accept that we are all wrong. And the direction we are going to, there's no hope for anyone, including the one who are hitting at this particular moment. So there's a huge conversation to be had there. And I like that we're talking about this even with in within this spectrum, so that it becomes a conversation that if 50 years people listen to this, they're gonna know this. Do you know just you know, people do not just wake up and change because I'm I'm so sure that 50 years from now, things are gonna be different, thanks to Gen Z. Now, uh Engineer Yenka. Uh, during your nearly three decades at EXO Mobile, uh, what were some of the major challenges and successes you experienced, especially in Africa?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:04

Challenges and successes. Yes. Wow. I think uh one of my biggest successes was I was part of the group that brought uh Chicken In and Peter into Kenya. Ah okay, so that's a big one. Ah, where's the drum roll? Wow, come on. So 1998-1999, I was one of the people that brought Peter chicken in with uh the guys out of Zimbabwe into Kenya. Yeah, I don't know if I can take that as a credit now or not, but but I'll leave that alone. Yeah, I'll leave that alone. So um let's let's talk about the challenges first. Um, challenges will be challenges Galor as a young black man in the US. I mean, uh, I don't know if you do you know watch American football?

SPEAKER_09 1:08:54

Yeah, once in a while.

Brand Value, Luxury, And African Originals

SPEAKER_05 1:08:55

Do you know a guy named Terrell Owens? No, they call him TO, he's a wide receiver. A few days ago, he was flying on America on uh United Airlines and um he's one of with with his wife and and three kids, two boys and a girl. One of the sons asked for a drink. The guy pushing the cart did not hear him. So Terrell touched the guy with his finger and said, you know, please, my son is looking for water. And the guy says, Don't eat me. And he says, the guy in front of him said, but you didn't hit him. Why did he say that? So he was like, Oh, okay, maybe the guy just having a bad day. The guy stormed to the front of the of the plane, came back to finish his whatever he's doing. I think they were going from Denver to Salt Lake or something like that. When they landed in Salt Lake, the the pilot announced and said, please everyone, don't deplane yet. There's a security thing that they needed to do. This is two days ago, two or three days ago. This is not a long time ago. Yeah, and so everybody on the plane thought maybe there's a medical emergency where they need to evacuate someone that passed out or whatever. Um, and he said, as he was sitting down there, six guys came with you know security guns and everything, and they said he said the guy leaned over to him and said, Don't fight this arrest, you are being arrested. So they put handcuffs on him and pulled him out of the plane first. So the kids were wondering what did dad do? Yeah, the wife is wondering, what did my husband do? And then when they took him out, they say he says, Why are you guys arresting me? They said, Because you punched the guy uh on the plane, the the uh the host, yeah, on the host on the plane. And he says, I did what? So he explained to them what happened, they apologized and they told him to go. Now, to show that uh I think United Airlines now did its research and found out that the guy actually has an issue, and this is not his first time or something, so they have made uh an open apology to Terrell Owens. Now, Terrell Owens is if you take 10 people in the US, his face is known. If in 2024 a racist movement like that can still happen to Terrell Owens, talk less of someone like myself 40 years ago, or a no a no name from Africa. Um, yes, uh, those are the kind of things you fight. Yeah. Um, you you you give opinion in meetings because you're an African, because of the way you sound, because of what you look like, it's not taken uh until things go the wrong way. Eventually you keep pushing, the system will then respect you and have to listen to you because when you once you document um and they have no other choice but to listen to you. Yeah, let me take it even out of oil and gas. When I was in pharmaceuticals, I remember telling my people that something they because in pharmaceuticals to manufacture, they have something they call SOP, standard operating procedures. Yeah, and for you to change an SOP of manufacturing of uh medicine, you have to get a clearance from the federal government. Yeah, and I remember the first day I got to the off to my job, I saw that the so this was in 1985 or 86. Yeah, and I saw that the SOP last change was in 1959. What so I'm I'm thinking, okay, as a kid that wanted to drive, you know, design a car that was flying that was yeah, that lost out in designing his car. Yeah, the first question is if you have a procedure that is 30 years old, things have changed. Yeah, what could have changed? We had a better chilling technology has changed to chill, yeah, a liquid. Yeah, you have impeller designs are different in mixing, yeah. I mean, a whole lot of things has changed in 30 years.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:19

30 years is a long time.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:20

Why can't somebody look into improving this thing? So I sat back. Yeah, I was a young, what, 20-something year old guy thinking something ain't right here. Yeah, and I went to my people and I said, we can improve this thing. The first thing is they laugh at you. The first thing they say is, we can't understand your English. How can you that come from a country where you live on trees can tell us things ain't right? And all the other things. Long story short, I was able to convince them after some hard times that it's possible. Eventually, the system listened and they saved manufacturing time by 50%. Those are the things you can live back today and and thank God and laugh about. And because then when they built the new building, my employees were so happy they actually wrote my name on the concrete. So maybe it's still there. Maybe somebody said, remove this crazy guy's name out of the way. Yeah. Um, but as you look at values and things you've done that you can say you're proud of, um, I would say being able to, for four years, I was what they call the training and development manager for Africa Middle East. So every country between Dubai and Cape Town was reporting to me. And that was uh between 1998 and 200, what's that? 2002, right? Yeah, for those years. And coming in and helping to develop a lot of young guys and young ladies also, and being able to go into all these countries and effect changes, yeah, would be what I call accomplishments. Yeah, and those are still my friends till tomorrow. Yeah, so I've got friends all over the continent, every country I go is home from that.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:07

Amazing. And and it looks if you look at it clearly, it's more of like an Aripo effect and also um some unmanaged change because if you impacted most of those people across Africa, I'm sure today also they're impacting more, and that continues, and that's great. So, Grace, uh, for you, uh, entrepreneurship is something that you have really uh ventured into uh heavily. And uh, one of the things that you have done really well and won awards around is media platform, luxury exclusives. Uh, please tell us how did the all this happen uh as a computer scientist and also as an entrepreneur?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:52

Um very good question. Yeah, and uh it's also you have to ask yourself why did I even make the shift from technology to media?

SPEAKER_07 1:16:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:05

Uh, because I think that's where the piece of the puzzle uh meets. Um and I have to go back and also express uh my challenges, number one. As a woman, a black woman for that matter, in Africa, driving technologies across Africa has not been an easier journey. Uh because it's always believed that it should be men who will always need to be at the frontier. And I know in my days uh of pioneering change, pioneering mobile banking, it women you walk into a boardroom in the financial sector and you're trying to bring change into the market, and you walk into a boardroom and it's all men. From the seal through to the tier, it's all just men. So they just look at you. You're a woman.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:01

And uh it's not an easy journey for women. So there's a lot of lonely women out there who are still trying to penetrate through the technology industry. And a lot of women with a lot of scars that are trying to get, not just across Africa, but even in Kenya today, where we find and we hear the stories that as a woman it's not easy for me to sit on the table.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:23

Yeah.

Mentorship vs Apprenticeship: What Works

SPEAKER_04 1:17:24

And this for me is a call that I think um we need to be united, both men and women, and create the platforms that allow us to have negotiation, you know, to sit on the same table, have conversations, make decisions together without feeling sidelined as a woman. That there are certain jobs that a man can do that a woman can do. And those are the things that we need to look and see where do we create that equal balance on such. Um, second thing is uh is of course my transition into technology and media. And I believe they all go together, is because um technology has somehow become a lineage for the media. And you kind of need to know the balance of the two.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:20

And uh my travel into Africa is what created the appetite to understand how rich in resources we have in the continent, yeah, and uh our our richness in our products, in our art, in our fashion, in our I think basically everything that we do in Africa, it's it's so thorough. And a lot of our products are handmade. But we know handmade and we understand handmade when we know it has come from outside the continent.

SPEAKER_08 1:18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:57

And I'll tell you one thing is that for me, what g what actually sometimes saddens my heart is to see how we embrace international brands versus even our own brands in the continent that have come that are trying to, that are, that are doing amazing products, but we don't take the time to study. Perhaps they don't have the financial muscle of marketing and entrenching them deeply into showcasing what their you know manufacturing process looks like versus the international brands that we have.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:31

Um, and for me, that is what created my appetite for creating a platform that can aggregate and showcase uh luxury brands across the continent.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:42

Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:43

Uh, we started in South Africa.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:46

And uh we uh we do work closely with the media houses in South Africa, the PR organizations in South Africa to really create a platform that uh connects and publishes stories of what's happening in the luxury space.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:01

Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:02

Um, looking to grow into other markets where we can profile and showcase really other brands that we can really tell our stories.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

The problem we have is that other people tell our stories.

SPEAKER_10 1:20:14

Absolutely. And we don't tell most of the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:17

We don't tell our stories, and we are at a point where we need to tell our stories on our storyline and be able to put our brands out there, label them, and get to be known that we have the best of products. Yes. I'll give you a very good story, a very well-known brand here in Kenya. Um, and uh, the owner is a very good friend of mine. She has amazing leather products, and uh, she's just been telling me her struggles into the Kenyan market that uh products, she she's doing extremely very well in the US. And she had to go and set a shop in the US, then now put up that she has a shop in the US and has a shop in Kenya, so that now we can jump up and say, wow, she's made it. Why do we have to have brands from Africa?

SPEAKER_09 1:21:09

Validation.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:10

Validation has to go first in the US, maybe somewhere in the streets of New York or in the high streets of London, and then only then we now start jumping up and down to say, ah, they have done it. We don't need that. We should believe in the products of our people and use them, you know, profile them and celebrate them from the countries by buying them. By buying them.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:37

I love the movement of buy Kenya, proudly South African, buy Nigerian. But guess what? We still don't. We still don't. I'll give you a very good story. Yeah, uh, a very well-known international brand launched the Maasai um products. Uh, they launched shots, they launched uh um, you know, the Maasai print, basically, their products were all Maasai print.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:00

And I know very well they did the Maasai shirt. And uh they were selling a Maasai printed Maasai print shirt for$7,000. What did I say?

SPEAKER_10 1:22:12

Maasai printed for$7,000.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:14

$7,000.

SPEAKER_10 1:22:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:16

And uh, if today you find a Maasai shirt on the streets of Nairobi, will you buy it?

SPEAKER_09 1:22:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:23

Okay, you will buy. Yes, okay, but at how much?

SPEAKER_09 1:22:27

Um, maybe a thousand bob.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:29

A thousand bob. Yeah, okay. Now you have another international brand selling a Maasai printed shirt. Maasai, you know, sleeping gown for$7,000.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:41

And within two months, they were out of stock, sold out. Now, a lot of us will not buy that Maashai print because it's local, it's down here. So we want when it comes from outside, and somebody emphasizes, or because it has that international endorsement, that's when we want to celebrate it.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:00

So you mean it was bought by Africans and the stock was out?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:04

It was being sold in African stores in South Africa and in other markets. And it was bought by Africans, and it was bought by Africans stock within two months, it was sold out. The Maasai print.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:16

One shirt for$7,000. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:21

But we won't want to buy, we will buy a Maasai shirt for a thousand shillings, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:25

I've never bought anything for$7,000 in and outside Africa. Let me be honest.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

So it just gets to tell you, yes, so it just gets to tell you that our our the appetite for our products out there.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:39

Uh, in addition to that, most of the international patterns that we have seen that are being used, they originated from Africa.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:46

Absolutely, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:47

If you look at the kikoi, Kenya lost the rights for kikoi. You know that?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:50

Who owns it?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:52

Japan.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:53

How can we get it back?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:55

I don't know. Yeah, but we lost the rights for kikoi. We can't even produce the kikoi anymore because somebody else patented it and we lost the rights.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:05

And these are the sensitizations that we need to do. In fact, before we lose the Maasai print, we need to get that because it's part of our culture, it's part of our heritage.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:14

You know, but somebody else sees the value and we don't. Our teas, you know, is something else that if we're not careful, somebody else will repackage it, take it out of the continent or out of the country, and we start losing the value of it.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:29

Coffee.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:30

Coffee. There you go. Our farms, guess now they are even somebody else is starting to get our farms on them. We are starting to lose our farms to international farmers. What happened to those days when our farmers used to take coffee into one particular place?

SPEAKER_07 1:24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

And all of them sell their coffee together, and then they, you know, they ground it, then they take it internationally. Anyway, markets do grow. These are called international and bilateral trade agreements, which have come to place, I believe.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:01

Yeah. But I have a different story about coffee because I come from the background of coffee.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:06

The process we just described is how our forefathers were ripped off by being uh told that if you create the society, you have more voice, you know, there's more to take out there. And then what actually happened is auction. Like, you know, you do all the work, but your coffee is auctioned before even it's exported. Which means auctioning here, that is gonna be bought cheap and then it's gonna be sold, you know, Starbuck is making billions and billions of dollars. All they sell, and what they're known for is coffee. Most of that actually comes from Uganda and Kenya and the Ethiopia part of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

Why don't we own the final value chain?

SPEAKER_09 1:25:42

Thank you. Because you're told you cannot, you cannot even process your coffee. Actually, as you as of today, it's illegal to share the seed. And I'm not talking about anybody's experience. I lived in Kyambu. It was illegal to buy milk from my neighbor. I could go to jail for that. That's how serious it is. And and that's why, again, Gen Z's have seen this.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:02

Why is it illegal?

SPEAKER_09 1:26:04

It's by law. Someone just passed the law. They passed it, and it's they are they our leaders. These are the who we elected. These are elected hoping that they understand all the pain. Some of them actually maybe were people we could, you know, hang out and discuss some of these issues with. But when they become uh MPs, MCAs, governors, presidents, vice president, ministers, I don't know what happened. I don't know if they get bribed or they they are too compromised. I'm not sure what exactly happens, but everything changes.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:38

These are policies which we need to relook again. These are those so uh what was the word that was used? Those policies which were made many years ago, which today nobody is looking into, despite the changes that are happening globally. We are still bound by those old policies, you know, and we need to really go back into the drawing board and say a lot has evolved, a lot has changed globally. How do we still continue to be governed by policies of then versus what is happening today? We need to own that last mile.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:17

Yeah. But Madame Grace, let me let's get deeper a bit about this. Yeah. So how old is Hod? Is it 10 years, 15 years? How old is this? Because some of the laws I'm talking about is during uh Uru's tenor. Oh which is not that old.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:33

It's not that it's not too old, but as you say, those were some of the policies which we have grown up with.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

Which means nobody's still looking at them to see. And probably what we need to say is how quick, how often do we need to review?

SPEAKER_07 1:27:47

Yeah.

AU, Tech Hubs, And Homegrown Capital

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

As the world is evolving, how often do we need to review some of these things that are driving us or taking us back? Is it every 10 years after as we have our election, election terms? Then do we say every 10 years we review policies? Are they still valid or not valid? What are the bilateral agreements and terms from a trade perspective which we have with our international um uh international markets? Are they still valid in today's current world? Or do they need to be revised to be favorable? You know, uh, I was watching a clip the other day by the first lady of Sierra Leone, right? I think it is Sierra Leone, yeah. And she was talking about even today, how the oil segment in that market still continues to be governed by the French. Meaning that um before any production or even as it's produced, it's already the market is already known. Yeah, it's already sold.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:53

Or let's just not even go back, it's already sold, where we say that these policies are the system is systematically, deliberately, and intentionally structured to ensure that we can't have anything.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:12

Yes, and that's a mad Madam Vice uh is a first lady.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:17

That's a first lady.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:18

You know, you know, you see why Gen Z are uh a bit uh this is a first lady of Sierra Leone disappointed by the leadership, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:26

So how do we make sure we change these things?

SPEAKER_09 1:29:29

Gen Z's have a solution, by the way if anyone is listening or trying to see what they're trying to say. We need they're saying you don't have to wait for all this time, right? Some of them actually have gone ahead and built some platform that if anyone is serious about really changing Africa, we could actually change it every single day. Number one platform they built is where actually we could analyze laws before even they pass and have public participation instantly as you go. And that you just need your phone. And maybe a bit of a platform. You can implement even AI and machine learning to even decipher so that you don't read so much of that document. You can even go ahead and translate it to your local language. Whereby if you don't understand the Western language, which is official in most of the countries, you can maybe do Swailli, you can maybe do Zulu, you can do whatever language that is conversant with you. Then you can actually give feedback. And then that feedback is recorded. So there is no hala. You know, it was given, it was not given. So if you actually uh take what actually you have been used to and merge it to what you know the Gen Z all over the world, not even in Africa. All over the world they are saying that these things could be done. And you know, the platform that you have built, such as TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, all these platforms, they have grown knowing this platform actually. You could communicate with someone thousands and thousands of miles and be able to make a decision instantly.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:05

Are we embracing those technologies and those platforms?

SPEAKER_09 1:31:08

That's how some of these uh movements are organized. Good. And you can see actually, today you say Nairobi is where people are gonna demonstrate, they're in Malaba. Right? Tomorrow you say someone is uh demonstrating in Mombasa, maybe they're in NAROK. So you see, in this case, it's a collective, no-influence, issue-based cry for help. And I hope someone is gonna listen to that because if they listen, no one says you should not be the president. You're just saying, as the president, are you in touch with what is happening? Or you're just hoping after five years you go to your tribesmen, uh, bribe them, and then bribe a few other guys and get back to the seat. So you can do whatever you want, think you're doing the right thing. No, no, no, that time is long gone. So I think there's a huge solution here that if we all embrace, even us in tech actually, because everyone is a leader at a certain level, we can actually collectively say, what are we saying here? Because even the movements that we're running at our different respective areas, it can be much faster if we are able to embrace some of these things and use the technology wisely.

SPEAKER_10 1:32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:15

And say, guys, I know I want to become a billionaire in three months. But if I build systems at work, I don't need to be a billionaire. I could go to a hospital, get treated, and maybe I don't get charged. The tax that I paid when I was very able, as a civil servant, as an entrepreneur, as an employee, could serve me until I die honorably. Right? So there's a huge conversation around that. And it's cool that you have said, let's relook. And now Gen Z are saying, don't even wait. The technology supports it. Let's do it every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:47

Let's look into that.

Inclusion Focus: Disability Mainstreaming

SPEAKER_09 1:32:48

Yeah, so that's a very, very good uh analogy you have given there. And I think also even the businesses are suffering the same, same uh, you know, uh consequences because you employ a Gen Z, you think you have employed a Melini or a boomer, and you're like, uh, you know, you climb up the ladder. But they're saying I'm too smart. Why are you not using my skills? The next day they don't come to work. You're like, hey. And the next thing they quit. You're like, what did I do wrong? No warning. I did not listen. That's what he didn't do. They told you, you know, I can I can do more. Just appreciate me a bit, you know, facilitate that. It doesn't have to take me 50 years to get there. We can all get there. So there's a huge conversation. And I think this is not only to the government of the day, anywhere in the world. It's about people. The times have changed, so we all embrace this. And it's good actually that, you know, I'm talking to the most uh influential people, one of them being engineered uh Yenka, who has actually uh mentored over 5,000 plus uh entrepreneurs and young people. For me, I've always had this issue of mentorship versus apprenticeship. I don't know if you have done both or you have considered both while implementing uh you know the program where you help advise and you know mentor these young people. Which one has worked and which one has backfired? Or if they have all worked, which one actually really goes a long way to even create a rip effect?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:20

Between mentorship and apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:23

So um they they actually mean two different things.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:29

Apprenticeship in some cases means you have to hold a person by the hand. There's no way you can teach a person how to manufacture a cell phone by not having them physically there assembling over time and be right doing it. Yeah, so apprenticeship is needed in some cases where somebody needs to acquire a lot of physical skills to do things. Mentoring can be done virtually, can be done anyway or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:00

Um, either way, they are both two-way streets. Yeah, the mentee has to be ready to be mentored, and the mentor has to provide the time for the mentee.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:15

A big difference between them a lot of time is as a mentor, you do a lot of things that the mentee may not know about. You position them, you put their names in places, you are their faces when they don't even know you are talking about them. And you, I can give you one example. I got a text a few days ago that um someone is looking for a person in certain countries for some positions. So I just gave them a name in Zambia and say, call this person. Because I didn't have time to be calling the person. I said, call the person and tell them I told them that you will call them. So those are the times you do people goods or values that they don't even know you are doing. So you have you've been with them, you've appraised them, you know who they are, you know the basics of who they are and what they can deliver. So at that point, you can just plug their names in places.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:15

So as a mentor, you plug in a lot of places.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:18

Yeah.

FESTAC Africa Renaissance: Vision And Agenda

SPEAKER_05 1:36:18

Well, apprenticeship is when you have to hold somebody and say, okay. And there are some cultures that do that very well. The Indian culture, the Chinese culture. If you first go somewhere, you know you will be an apprentice for 10 to 15 years. So you come in into Nairobi, I have a restaurant, you're gonna work with me for 10 years. In those 10 years, you're an apprentice. In those 10 years, you learn how to wash the dishes, learn how to clean the rooms, learn how to do all the things you need to do, including buying the materials and equipment, including paying the rent, including handling a lot of things. So over those 10 years, you learn. At the end of the 10th year, I walk away and I give you the business.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:04

And you are paying me back in some kind of way. So there are a lot of cultures that have those types of things. Uh the type of one to be done will be dependent on the business as well as the personality or the relationship between the two people. So they both work.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:22

But um, I'm not sure you can say this one works better than the other. Again, it's dependent on the personality and the business.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:30

Yeah. And in Africa, are we doing more of apprenticeship or more of uh you know mentorship?

SPEAKER_05 1:37:36

Uh good. I like the way you spawn that into Africa.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:39

We've got issues.

SPEAKER_07 1:37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:41

And that's the first thing we all first of all need to identify. Uh, some of the comments you guys were making earlier. Why can't these things happen in Africa? First of all, we need to like ourselves first. Yes. We don't yet. Yes. We also don't know one another. We don't know ourselves. So um we've been beaten on the head to be inferior for hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:06

And that inferiority is still fighting with us. I mean, why would a guide need 10 cars if you don't have an inferiority complex?

SPEAKER_07 1:38:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:15

You have a complex.

SPEAKER_07 1:38:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:16

That's why you think you need to have 10 Rolls Royce to be human and to be big. All right. So we need, we need, we have a lot we need to change. I'm going to roll that into even your comment about your tea or coffee. First of all, you need benevolent leaders. Meaning, someone that sit down and say, I am the aggregator of these uh seeds of beans of coffee. I'm going to play and be knowledgeable in what the market is globally. I'm going to edge for my group. I'm going to do all the things I do. I'm going to negotiate for my people because I can actually speak the language. They speak where the buyers go. I'm going to prepare my people. I'm going to be open with my people and say the market during this month goes up. During this month goes down. You know what we need to do? Let's hold. Let's sell when it's convenient for us. So we have a whole lot of that that we don't do. When you take that into leadership and we are the continentes, yes, the Gen Zava, like you said, we don't need to reinvent anything anymore. Um, an example I like to use is from your comment earlier about your rotary phone to one terabyte sitting here. I mean, if I have the money, yes, do I need to go from Rotary, go to tung tung, tung tung, go to Turaya, go to Nokia 3310, which is still a very practical. You throw them down the bounds, they still work, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:56

So those do you need to go through all of those before you get to something like that? You don't need to. We can we can lipfrog. Yeah. So the average what AU should be doing today. And I think when we talk, we need to talk to all our leaders at once.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:10

One of the things that they are and that I think they can do better on is a couple of years ago, we were celebrating one Africa passport. Yes. My leaders, that's a waste of time. Yes. Why are we celebrating? Well, you we will never get the same passport, one passport for the continent in the next 50 years. Yes. What we need to do is to make sure people can travel with what they have. Yes. Back to what the CEO said earlier. So when we have issues, we need to deal with our issues. We need to stop wasting time. Most of the leaders are 50, 60, 70.

SPEAKER_07 1:40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:43

They've lived more than half of their lives. Then we need to guide and live good legacy for people. We need to get the continent to leapfrog. We can't crawl anymore. So when you look at technologies out there for them to use, I think the most painful part of it, our children are the ones designing this program for the Western world. There are a lot of buildings here in Nairobi where they call them service companies.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:13

Right? They are servicing. I mean, there's one company I was talking to in where is that mall on Tika Road? Yeah, whatever. They're talking to the people. They are the ones doing customer service for some big companies in the US.

SPEAKER_10 1:41:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:28

Which means our kids are good enough to lead. Yes. Let's stop wasting our children's lives. Let's put money down all our continental banks. We need to, I mean, there's a lot we need to work on. You know, you guys were talking about banking before. Do we really have banks on the continent? No. Do the banks do what's right? Do we just sit down and sit and make interest on trade?

SPEAKER_07 1:41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:54

On C C O T or C, whatever they call it.

SPEAKER_07 1:41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:56

C O T is what they call it, right? Yeah. We just sit back and collect money on COT. A lot of the other countries, when you go to the bank, the bank tells you you want to borrow$10 million. Yes, we'll give it to you. However, we'll choose your CFO. The reason being that they need someone to watch their money. And then they will help you get you research, get you support, technical support to incubate and grow that money. We don't do that in African banks. All they do is to say, sign here, you'll pay 25%, 2% for the pen, 3% for the water, 2% for the toilet. You know what that means? You're borrowing at 30%.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:34

There's no business you can do if you borrow the way banks lend money in this continent that can be successful.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:40

Of course.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:41

So we have we have we are built we are built to fail.

SPEAKER_09 1:42:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:43

So I mean, the issues on the continent is humongous. We need benevolent leadership. We need all our leaders to come together and do what is right. We cannot be slaves forever. Because we're still behind. We're still somewhat because people come in and they do whatever they want to do on the continent. I mean, look at some of the examples you give. Yes, what's wrong with us having our own money to have a tea farm?

SPEAKER_07 1:43:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:14

And I mean, our children are the ones in all those countries working for those corporations.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:19

Bring them back home. Pay them well.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:22

Right? Let them come home and use the brains they have globally. That leaps me into what the passion of what we are doing today.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:30

The new Africa.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:32

Which is based on knowledge. Networking. Networking is the biggest thing. One of the things we do wrong, as I said a few minutes ago, is we don't talk. Today I've just met you.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:46

You've known me now.

SPEAKER_07 1:43:47

Yes.

Culture, Film, Fashion, And Youth Summit

SPEAKER_05 1:43:47

If you meet me at the airport flying tomorrow, you have a person to sit down next to, having a drink of coke, and we are talking. So you're building relationships. We don't do that enough. Our countries are still divided. Our countries are still separated. And they are separated by a virtual or imaginary line somebody put in them that doesn't even exist.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:09

And set some rules around it.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:11

And unfortunately, the guy that drew the line was very intelligent. Because you put those lines between tribes, the same tribe. So you are from Meru. There's Meru in Tanzania, Meru in Meru in Kenya. Masai. Tanzania. Masai in Kenya. Yes. Luo.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:29

In Uganda. Luo in Kenya.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:33

But guess what? Those local guys that don't drive like you and I, educated guys like you and I, they don't have a car. They just walk and cross on that side. And they're looking at us at the border and say, look at those idiots.

SPEAKER_07 1:44:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:43

And then you and I take a passport. You know, mine is better than yours. Mine is thicker because I travel more than you. So I throw it down there, they stamp mine. And the other guy is going, what are they doing?

SPEAKER_07 1:44:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:53

Right? So we need to open up and say, we have similar problems continent-wide. Leaders need to sit back, forget all these old times of uh, you know, we talk like this, we talk like that. We need we need a new Africa. And yes, uh, that is my own personal support for the Gen Zs.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:13

And what they are doing.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:15

Again, again, it has to be structured. You have to know when to retrieve. You have to know when when to make things move forward because tomorrow, you will be the 50-year-old also.

SPEAKER_07 1:45:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:27

And you don't want the those new Gen Z's coming 20 years from now. They'll be a little crazier than the one of today, right? For sure.

SPEAKER_09 1:45:33

So you will be Gen Alpha, not Gen Z. They call them Alphas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:37

But the other thing too.

SPEAKER_09 1:45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:38

But who, why are we even following Z Alpha Millenia? Why can't we have our own name? Let's call someone called Generation Kidogo, get generation Sasa. I mean, why are we Gen Z? Why are we Alpha? Why are we thinking we don't even understand?

SPEAKER_09 1:45:53

Because we are brainwashed.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:55

Exactly. Yes. Which is what we need, why we need to go away from what the world is telling us.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:02

The people that enslaves our parents, that when our parents are sick on the boat, just sneeze. They throw a live person in the water to be eaten by fish. So they're not the one telling us which way we need to go. It's a new world. We need to take our position in this world. There's no need to fight anybody anymore. I mean, we all have the brains now. Our children are the ones designing all these apps. I mean, look at the taxi apps.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:30

Why can Africa have one taxi app that a percentage of it go to AU for helping put the money down to design? A percentage of it go to the government of the country. And then the bigger percentage go to our children driving. Most of our our students today, our children today that have good degrees can get a job. So they're working, driving a cab, they don't know who's taking money on the other side. That guy takes 20 or 25%. They don't even know who the guy is.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:00

And we say we have a life.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:01

Sitting outside the continent.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:04

So so there's a lot to be done. And we just need to, first of all, stop lying to one another. We need to get out of all these, you know, I don't want to hurt somebody. That's the that's yesterday. We need to talk facts and care. Care, be benevolent and care about where the continent is going. Yes. If we don't want to keep stay where we are for another 50 to 100 years.

SPEAKER_09 1:47:27

And just to be fair, uh there's uh an African uh apt, uh, I think in uh El Doret Nakuru, known as Maramoja. Uh still really works well, actually, if you go to that city. Because when Hoover came in, actually was targeting Nairobi and Mombasa. And you can you can just tell why. Because that's where most of the tourists, when they come in, they they visit a lot. So they want that same experience for them. But no one thinks about places like Nakuru, places like Kisi, places like Isumu, places like uh uh Eldoret. No one thinks about that. Also, there's another hub uh apparently uh that is being built uh here about uh you know CAB by one of our colleagues. So to be fair, there are there's a lot that's going on. All I can say is that also when you introduce some of these solutions to our fellow Africans, as you said, uh that hate that we have, or we have been brainwashed to eat what we own, uh, again with the brands need to really move. Because someone would rather strike for a week and you know, say they want money to be added on Bolt or Uber or all these places, and we're not appreciate the home solution because maybe the guy didn't have much engineering money to test this uh properly, and you're not willing to actually support him so that he can grow it. Even the apps that we use here, for instance, even taking Cub uh application as an example, before you knew them, they were not as perfect. They're not still perfect. They just the money you pay them is what actually enables them to employ people to improve those applications. So we be patient with each other. And I'm not saying that you know we are close for business for whoever wants to come to invest. I'm saying we should level the playing field for both of the innovations.

Pan‑African Pride And Reclaiming Narrative

SPEAKER_05 1:49:17

Our leaders should invest in those people. Absolutely. And you know, over time it will get better. Absolutely. Like you said, one of the things in business also, when you look at an African business, yeah, it's gonna cost me$1,000 to design this thing. Yeah, however, I need about$5,000 for marketing. If the guy goes to the bank or our leaders and says, I need$6,000, they say, What do you want to do? Yeah, I'm gonna spend$1,000 to design, I need$5,000 to market. They'll look at him and go, Are you mad? Are you crazy? Yeah. But those are what the other guys did to make it an everyday name to sell. Yeah, so we need to believe in who we are, respect our own homegrown solutions, yeah, and that's the only way we're gonna move forward.

SPEAKER_09 1:50:02

Absolutely. I cannot agree more.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:03

I want to chip into that conversation because it's very close to my heart.

SPEAKER_09 1:50:07

Please.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:08

And uh, for me, what I see uh where the issue lies is uh we have a lot of young people who are developing uh these amazing apps. Yeah, but the issue is you go to someone who has money and uh you're going to them so that they can support you to grow. The first thing they ask you is they already are self-sufficient, they are financially empowered, they can support you, they can actually help you grow and incubate you in one way to you know to propel.

SPEAKER_07 1:50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:41

But the first thing they ask you is, what's my stake in your business? You know? Yeah I want to put my son, I want to put my daughter in that business, you know? And you didn't build, you build this for your legacy so that you can also grow. And now this is someone who has the financial muscle to help you. You've gone to them for support, but they will not support you unless they have a stake in your business. Again, a lot of this is also driven by selfishness of our own people. Nobody, I'm saying, help me. Yeah, let's come up with a model that allows me to pay you back if that's what it takes. Because we see the difficulty in financial institutions actually giving money to young people who are coming up with all this tech, but they don't have experience, they don't have jobs, so they don't have the security to pay back these loans. You know, some of those are some of the industry challenges. For me, what I believe AU needs to be doing is they need to create a tech hub for Africa as the as the as the as the body that oversees the interest of the continent. Yes. Come up with a body that has a technology hub, culture hub, uh tourism hub, different hubs that are looking at different things, where innovations from Africa can be tested, can be funded from, and can even then be advanced and promoted and given the right platforms to grow from Africa. For me, that is where then the likes of African Union will start adding value. When we talk about uh intra-Africa free trade, what are we trading when we can't move goods from Nigeria to Kenya to South Africa to Ghana to Uganda to Tanzania? What are we trading? Why don't we start with our home homegrown products? Yeah, why can't we start from where we are? You know, we need to even have our own venture capitalists. Most of the funded, most of the funded products, services, businesses in Africa, most of them are funded outside the continent. Yes. I'll give you a good example. Look at Flutterwave. They had to go in the US to get funding. Yeah, very few is being funded from the continent. How do we change that?

SPEAKER_09 1:53:08

Yes. Number one, uh the government should have RD uh budgets, which don't know of any African countries.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:16

They do, but clearly it goes into people's pockets, I've at all.

SPEAKER_09 1:53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:20

I believe.

SPEAKER_09 1:53:21

People would rather buy a plot and you know an apartment instead of investing uh in something that actually could control.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:27

Investing in the youth, investing in our people. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I started my story by talking and giving a reference to Kariako. Yes. I still want to believe if somebody looks at the blueprint of Nairobi or the map of Nairobi, then there was a market segmentation. Yeah. What happened to it?

SPEAKER_07 1:53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:44

What happened to the budget allocations for building that market, basically?

SPEAKER_07 1:53:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:48

Kikomba, all those places that we grew up knowing that they are big trade drivers. Yeah. You know? What happened?

SPEAKER_09 1:53:57

It's a very good question. In case you don't know where Kareakore is, you can just uh load up your Google Map. Okay, Google Map is from California, which we had one. Or you can do TomTom. Even TomTom is Dutch. I don't know. Where are we safe? Anyway, go, Google, Google, Google, Google Map and uh load in satellite, and you can see actually Kariako, the way it looks. You can even go back in the day, go back in the same way and see is it still the same?

SPEAKER_04 1:54:26

It's still the same.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:26

I agree with you. At least for me, I have a privilege to know where Kariako is.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:30

Uh actually, let me just describe Karakor is where you get all these Maasai products, like your masai shoes and all that.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:37

And the the others come here, buy masai shoes and chondos, you know, the baskets, the authentic African baskets. They buy them, they go just probably just uh redesign it a little bit, maybe pad it, add a little bit of uh leather touch into it, patent it, and then make it authentically their label it, put a label there. Yeah, but these products are originally from here.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:05

Why are we reaping our people?

SPEAKER_09 1:55:07

Because we are greedy.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:09

Then we need to change that narrative.

Audience Q&A: Kenya–South Africa Trade Barriers

SPEAKER_09 1:55:11

Yes. You know, it doesn't matter how much you clean the pig, remains the pig unless you change the narrative and the mindset.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:20

That's why those policies are important to be reviewed so that we can get down to the basics of improving the livelihood of our own people.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:28

Again, just to be fair, we are at Africa Stocking, and Africa Stocking hosts uh monthly acadons where we are trying to see which solutions can we build at scale. Not only in Kenya, actually, everywhere we have presence in market and we're scaling this real quick. Uh the only challenge is that you know we have so much resources. But if you think about this initiative, it can actually open so many doors. And for us, we don't ask for any equity or whatever. And even we discourage guys from just running to raise funds. And there's nothing uh wrong about raising funds. But if you have a solid idea, the best investor that there will ever be is the customer. He will never ask you for what you don't have, you'll never pay for what you don't build. So they can actually grow your business. And we have seen so many young people actually build business. As you speak, there is a gentleman who was a company with 30 young software engineers building solutions uh globally. Some guys now are working for banking, some guys now have a startup for laundryment, and so on and so forth. And all this is designed with an African in mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:40

Good.

Closing Reflections And Calls To Connect

SPEAKER_09 1:56:40

Not only that, but also we have Africa Stalking Women in Tech initiative, whereby we are saying, you know, we need more ladies to write code. And what this does as an engineer is that it brings the element of a woman when it comes to the solution, which for sure, and I agree as a man, that is not the same. The same way I build a solution is not the same way you build a solution. Because for you, number one, does it really serve the solution? For me, I might be just wanting to make more money to marry five wives or you know, buy a nice car. But for you, you're like, okay, will this really serve the generation to come? What if, you know, for young uh toddlers, is it serving them? Is this color really even reflective of you, you know, the society? There's so much that goes into it. The detail. And so much and so on and so on. And right now it's in Nairobi and uh Uganda, and uh we are open for partnership uh as long as we align. Because also there are partners who come in, you know, wasn't it for me? You know, I just want to sell this product. Of course, even for us, we say, okay, you have uh sometimes you have to use our Africa stocking uh products just to give you a platform to test some of these and to see how solutions work at scale. But ideally, we want to scale that throughout Africa and beyond. And uh so far we have over 150,000 developers and growing. And uh this is amazing. Yeah, like in Uganda, we have seen ladies actually get together and build on our platform, which has never happened for a long time. In Nairobi, we have been doing this now for a year, and it's growing in terms of solutions. Um, people addressing um uh FGM and the build solution around it, domestic violence, build solution. So we are Africa stocking. Of course, someone might say, you know, Africa stocking is Africa stocking. But all I'm saying is that any startup, any business can actually chime in, can actually start some initiative and collectively, because you know, we are used to pointing fingers, you know. Every time something wrong happens, we never point inwards. We always, you know, that one is wrong, you know, the leader. But we forget all of us belong here, all of us are from here. Some of these guys we are saying they are doing wrong, they are our buddies, we meet them, they are our brothers and sisters. So uh that's it. You are big in uh inclusivity. And uh I know as a lady who has achieved it all, you are faced so many challenges. If I am a young lady and I wanted to really uh grow and and thrive, especially in tech, what are those things that I need to hone as a person?

SPEAKER_04 1:59:14

Firstly, point of correction. I haven't owned it all. I'm still growing, I'm still young.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:20

That's what all smart people say.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:23

And uh I'm still evolving.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:26

And I continue to be challenged even by the youth uh to keep pushing. I think uh inclusion is very key. Uh, there are quite a number of segments that um we don't factor in. And one of the biggest segments is the segment of people with disability.

SPEAKER_07 1:59:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:48

That's one of the segments where we see a lot of inclusion uh lacking in so many things. Um, and uh, when I talk about disability, I talk about Mainstream disability mainstreaming, which means across all segments. And as an organization, that is one of the areas that we um are making a difference and uh becoming more inclusive.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:17

And I'll give you a very good example, especially with the festival that we are hosting in Kisumu.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:23

From the 25th of August to the 1st of September in 2024.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:30

Where we want to showcase talent. It's the festival of arts and culture. This is Festac Africa Renaissance Festival.

SPEAKER_10 2:00:37

Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:37

It's the revival of a festival which uh was started by our forefathers in the 60s.

SPEAKER_07 2:00:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:44

And uh the first one took place in 1966, the second one took place in 1977, the probably the biggest festival of arts and culture ever recorded in the history of Africa.

unknown 2:00:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:58

In 77. Tell me more. And uh the festival after 77 that was led under the uh took place in Nigeria in Lagos. That was the second world's uh blacks and world's black and African Festival of Arts and Culture. And for 45 years after 77, the festival died. This just goes to tell you that we don't celebrate our culture, we don't celebrate who we are, we don't celebrate us as a black people enough.

SPEAKER_07 2:01:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:01:30

And we relaunched that festival back in 2022 in Zanzibar. It's a festival that was aimed to rotate across Africa. And in 2022, after relaunch, uh, that was the third world's Black and African Festival of Arts and Culture. Uh, 2023, we had it in Arusha. And 2024, we are hosting that in Kesumu from the 25th to the 1st of September, 2024.

SPEAKER_08 2:02:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:02

Now, that festival is basically aimed to bring us together, all of us, people from all over the world, black people, yeah, uh descendants of the African uh culture, but we have evolved. We are a global uh, we we we have what we call global inclusion now, where we are very much traveled globally uh as a people, yeah, and uh we have also intermarried globally. And you have a shared culture. And we have a shared culture. Yeah. So the idea is when we come together during the celebration of the seven days, is for each one of us to come and embrace your culture, bring your food, bring your dances, bring your fashion, bring your technologies, your innovation. And really let's come together and celebrate one each one another over the seven days. Um, the idea behind that uh this year, we have three key things that we are focusing on. That's the inclusion, it's on impact, and it's on changing lives. Inclusion, we are partnering with the National Fund for the Disabled of Kenya to bring inclusion in the disability mainstreaming, specifically to highlight talent, to highlight um uh skills that are in that segment of people with disability. A lot of times when we talk about disability, we feel it's probably someone with a wheelchair or on clutches, but there's so many other underlying um uh things that that uh regarded disability, but we don't know that. I'll tell you one of the activities that we will be doing is the dinner in the dark during the festival. What does that mean? I have no idea. How do we uh how there is you you and I don't understand how to sensitize visual impairment, but it's important when we put key decision makers on a table who can understand how do you relate with someone with visual impairment? How can you today, as an employer, put and believe that someone with visual impairment is just as good as someone with real visual and they can do just as well as the person. They can eat, they can still do what the other person can do, believing in those skills. It's not just about music, it's not just about other talents, but we want to highlight that they too have talent, they can sing. So we're gonna do a dinner in the dark that brings our seals together, key decision makers together, yeah, to really get to understand what it means to live the life of impaired vision. So we're gonna take you through that journey. Yeah, you're gonna have your menu, you're gonna eat without looking, you're gonna go through that experience.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:50

How are they gonna select what they wanna eat?

SPEAKER_04 2:04:52

Well, how do they how do people select?

SPEAKER_09 2:04:54

That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:56

So that is what inclusion is about. So it's about changing lives and also changing perceptions.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:02

Because it's important.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:03

Looking from the other side of things.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:05

Looking from the other side of things. Now close your eyes.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:09

And tell me what's in front of you.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:11

Some of these guys, you have to close their eyes. We're gonna have to, you know, peep in and you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:17

Yeah. And then you're gonna tell. So we're gonna go through some of these experiences to really get to have serious conversations.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:24

I hope you're recording this experience and sharing it because a lot of people are gonna learn from that.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:28

Yeah. Yeah. And it's all back to the it's about learning. Yeah, it's about the experiment, yeah, it's about the inclusion into the greater world of doing things.

SPEAKER_07 2:05:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:38

Yeah. Uh, the second thing that I mentioned is on impact. We want to leave uh an impactful legacy for Kenya for Kisumu during the week.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:48

Uh, what do we have planned for that week? Um, of course, we have partnered with quite a number of um health practitioners. We will be doing free health screening throughout the week, uh, from general health screening, eye screening, uh, cancer care and cancer screening, uh, dental uh and oral care screening throughout the week. So we have different segments that are really planned. We're gonna do a culture night, which is a culture, global culture in vision. Uh this year in our festival, we are partnering with India. So we're gonna go through, you know, all about bilateral trade relations and all that. We have brought India in and looking at BRICS is to bring in India as a partner for the festival and to create uh a platform where we can do cultural exchange, uh, exchanges during that. So if you uh if you have a different culture, come for that night and let's do a trade, uh what we call global cultural exchange during that night. Yeah, we will be talking about GBV and uh GBV um awareness throughout the week, where we have these are serious matters of Africa that still continue to cripple our continent. And the whole week we have a session on gender-based violence where we talk on matters of uh how do we deal with it. What is uh driving um the continent to a level where we have to be violent with one another is uh violence only domestic? It happens in the workplace, it happens in the bathrooms, it happens in the restaurants, it happens in uh schools, it happens in uh in so many hospitals. In hospitals. So, how do we really clean up this? It has to be an open, ongoing conversation. Silence is a killer. And we are at a point in life where conversations we have to be vocal, and we are choosing to bring this platform as a voice for the voiceless and really help those who need to talk about it, come out and talk.

SPEAKER_07 2:07:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:55

Throughout the week, we want to celebrate our fashion, our bold textiles. So we are encouraging people from all over Africa. Come in your bold colors, come in your best fashion elements, come in your culture, and let's celebrate one another through fashion, through music, yeah, through dances and all that.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:13

Uh, we have a youth summit during that week. We want to encourage our Gen Zs. Don't come and occupy, please come and join us.

SPEAKER_09 2:08:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:22

And let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_09 2:08:23

The whole professor has been doing right with the Gen Zs. Otherwise, uh, everyone is getting recalled soon.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:30

So we want to encourage our Gen Z's, come and join us. Let's have a conversation, let's listen to you. Yeah, this is an pan-African platform where we have put together quite a number of youth from various markets across Africa. Yeah, we can gather 5,000 to 10,000 youth in Kisuma during that week. We have won because this again is where you can start saying we are talking about policies for Africa. Uh, bring in those apps. Let's discuss how we can scale them, let's listen to them and let's understand. We have L.

SPEAKER_09 2:09:01

We have a lot of talking without listening. That's where we are where we are. I'll have to give up to uh to Professor Anyang Nyung because I uh besides Nakuru, which has always been the cleanest city in East and Central Africa, uh, which was surpassed by Kigali not long ago. Uh Kisumu is catching up.

SPEAKER_01 2:09:20

Kisumu is the sixth cleanest city in Africa.

SPEAKER_09 2:09:23

Yes, and uh Zero One, who our partners, you know, from Lake Ub are also doing an amazing job uh training guys on uh software engineering, which they can service and create wealth around it and jobs opportunities. So so far, so good. Um, and and and I know because, Professor, you should look at the fish prices because last time I had a nice fish, very nice, at an affordable, African-friendly price. Because you know, we have not made it. Uh, but when we make it for sure, we don't mind buying it at$7,000. Uh but for now, uh, you know, check on that and also uh, you know, other things that actually would encourage someone like me, because I'm a visit, I'm a frequent visitor of Kisumu, uh, because also I do outreach with the young people around software engineering. Good.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:14

Uh and and other things. How about you we challenge you to create a tech hub during the festival to come and teach young people on how to become the future engineers? I don't mind. Perhaps that's where through the podcast you can encourage the young, the youth to come in and showcase what they can do and maybe get some uh recruits from that festival that want to be part of the Africa is talking community. That's a challenge. That's a challenge I'm throwing back.

SPEAKER_09 2:10:46

Music to my ears. But I did not hear you mention uh music. Maybe I interfered before you go there. I'm getting anything to do with Afrobeats, you know, angla.

SPEAKER_04 2:10:56

I'm getting right there.

SPEAKER_09 2:10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:00

Another thing that we have, of course, is the women. You the question is on inclusion, impact, and changing lives. Okay. Uh so women, we have a women's summit, a two-day women's summit, where of course we want to talk about women's inclusion, financial access, matters of how do women get into jobs that were regarded as odd, and now we feel that we need to get into those. So encouraging those who feel that they have a place or a platform to come and showcase or talk about what they are doing in that. Come and pitch your business as well. If you're a woman, start a chance to win some uh some uh some money to boost your business and and and just be part of the festival. Uh just speaking for the youth.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:42

Will the youth win anything?

SPEAKER_04 2:11:44

Uh yes, we do have opportunities for the way for the youth to showcase innovation.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:49

Okay. And win something. Well to boost that business.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:52

I want to challenge you to put that price on the table for the youth to encourage them to participate.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:11:56

Um, further to that, also in 77, our film industry was not as uh advanced as we have today. 77, we didn't have Nollywood, we had the Hollywood. Today we have a big film market in Africa. We even have Riverwood now. We have Bonga Wood. And during that, we've got to be.

SPEAKER_09 2:12:18

Does it have to be the hood though? Now talking about the Sasa Badai. Uh-huh. Yeah. I think that should be a question posed there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:28

And the idea is, of course, to promote our filmmakers, to promote that industry, and to showcase some of the true authentic uh films from Africa. Yeah. So during the week, we will be doing a full week of movie screening uh during the festival week. So come and have fun, come enjoy some of this movie, connect with the likes of uh, you know, the golden oldies, such as uh Oliver Litondo, uh who uh who was part of the first grader. And uh and uh we are looking, of course, to bring other uh filmmakers screen what has been um uh produced from Africa during that week. And of course, because we are in a global collaboration, we are bringing in some uh movie content from Will Lupita Noga be there? Uh I'm sure Professor has had that.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:27

You're saying that's a good question.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:29

It is a good question, and I want to push it back to the professor.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:32

That might change a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:34

She started here in National Theater, so back to her roots, and you know it's a great question, and we would certainly love to celebrate her, especially with a new movie that she's just released. Yeah, and uh come and also inspire the interesting thing that you've said without saying it.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:51

The movie she just released is about inclusion. Yes, I've not watched it though, but it is it's about inclusion, yes. Yeah, and I need to make plus to watch these movies. I've been yeah, yeah, because it's a silent uh it has to do with something silent. You know, what would you do in a silent environment? I'm not so sure about the plot here.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:09

The quiet, the quiet place, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all about inclusion as well. Yeah, so it's it's it's those things. So the the movie screening and all that, and of course the culture. This is the festival of arts and culture. So every day from midday all through to midnight, it's the vibe. This is now where we call the cultural activation. Okay. The music, the wangler, the AfroBits, the Ama Piano, the DJs, the poetry, the spoken word, the comedy. Yeah. We are encouraging you. What we want to do is actually to launch a bomber village.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:14:45

This bomber village is for artists where they can, you know, after the festival, go celebrate, go network, go meet other people from other other markets and really get to uh network and get to create even more uh what's the word that I'm looking for? More collaborations uh during that time where they are on their own. Have a bomber village where they can share their stories. Um and let's document these stories, let's document these culture, the networks, create the networks, let's see how, you know, most of the time when we talk about uh Africa celebrating our culture, we see our culture as just a form of entertainment. It's an entire industry that must be supported, that must be promoted, that must be given the right platforms to shine. You know, our culture is not just about uh people coming here, going to Masai Mara, and we have some Maasai welcoming them at some entrance and then enjoying our safari. We need to embrace those cultures, have a platform where they can be celebrated and fully shown. So we are calling every African um country that is in Kenya to come and showcase your culture, come and showcase your food, come and showcase your fashion, come and showcase your talents, group up as a community, take a stand, and come and create the biggest gastronomy experience for Africa. We also want to see products from you know Gambia, from Zimbabwe, from Swaziland, from the Soto, from uh from Ethiopia, the teas.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:33

And I'm not saying these things by accident.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:35

Yeah, all of these are the same.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:36

If you see Swaziland, we'll be in the room. Me and several thousand others.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:41

Good.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:42

I wanna see that culture. I wanna because we have seen thanks to the technology, we have been seeing a lot actually about this culture, uh-huh, and you're surprised. You mean this is Africa? Exactly. Because for the longest, Africa has not been shown to us authentically. Thank you. What was filtered on TV, and most of these TVs are not, do not belong to us. Uh-huh. Now, things like TikTok, which is everyone now has a TV, everyone has a media, everyone has a a leeway to create content. And you're like, these guys have been in Africa all along. Uh-huh. I want to know more. We have seen also our friends from the South Sudan where they they do some sort of culture and you know, do some tattoo naturally, which really look amazing. I would love to know the story behind that and and so and so forth. I know we are starting up and you know reviving that. Yes. I think everyone should embrace to celebrate. I don't know. In Mexico in Mexico, there is this huge uh festival in Brazil, there is really huge festival that is known all over the world. Yes. And people travel to go to experience that. There are things like uh Tomorrowland Festival, there is a Ultra Festival, which people actually pay exorbitantly to be there. So can we have, okay, I know there's Nyege nyange festival, but you know, that's debatable. I don't know if it's a festival or just a show or something, but we need actually where we can actually fuse our culture authentically and learn from it and create experiences. Yeah. But before you go on uh uh Madam uh Momo, I understand there are several dignitaries who will be coming. Uh, you want to speak more about that?

SPEAKER_05 2:18:19

Um, it is difficult to, you know, you don't want to throw names. You don't have to. Uh yeah, so we've got some. I think uh the big thing is our patron is Chief Oluchia Kumabasan Joe. Yes. And I think you cannot talk first today without mentioning him. Um because back in the 60s, the whole idea of this was to bring all of us together for for the world called Pan-Africanism. And today, if you say to someone, I'm a pan-Africanist, yeah, they look at you as something is wrong with you.

SPEAKER_07 2:18:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:55

Pan-Africanism is not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_07 2:18:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:58

Pan-Africanism is self-love.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:01

So I think the fact that all of us are not comfortable saying that yet is part of our problem. There's nothing wrong for me to be Pan-African.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:09

Because I want my people to be better. That's nothing wrong with that. Every country wants its own people to be better.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:14

So when the festival was done in 66, it was supposed to continue every two to four years and move around where all of us get to travel other countries. In doing so, we infuse culture and we know one another. Um, as the CEO said, Nigeria was next. But Nigeria had the Biafra War that started in 67 to three or four years after. So Nigeria was not able to do the festival until 1977.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:42

You know, as I as I speak, one of the biggest things that is important to me, I want my gens, my millenia, gen alpha, gen beta, whatever you call the gens, or the gen kidogo kidogo, or gen sasa, whatever you call them. To know that what is critical, yeah, first of all, is self-pride and self-love.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:05

And that is what I believe is missing in us. If we want to progress and move forward, that's where we need to start. So this is what this festival was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:14

In 1977, just around the time I mentioned the point about Soweto 70, 75, or 76, rather, and all the things that happened back then.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:24

Just around the time was when a lot of focus won the new Africa, the emancipated Africa. There are two points I will mention that will probably shock you.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:37

You know, we talked today about Africans traveling. I just saw something on the news that says that now UAE is now allowing Nigerians to come back into their country again. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. That was that where they said they can't go there.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:52

So with the new ways of going, they have to pay something like$500 or$600 for visa. In the early 70s, Nigeria donated money to UAE. Go and check the go and check. Everybody goes to Google this. Go and Google it. That's the word.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:11

Or go and go and sass it, whatever you want to call it. Yes. Back then, also the leaders of Saudi Arabia used to come into Nigeria for medical services. Now we've lost all of those things. So when 77 happened, 77 was a great platform into bringing back the African pride. And then for whatever reason, the coming together, which brought together over 500,000 people in 1977. 16,000 people on the stage for one month from 60 to 70 countries. Those are some big antidotes and numbers. Why? Because in 77 Africa didn't have 50 countries.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:03

So which meant one-third of the nations were outside of Africa.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:06

Where your Caribbeans, your Brazil, even Europe, even Italy, India, other people would send people into Nigeria. And it was a real power of our people together. I don't know who to blame, but whatever. They think died for 45 years. So we felt the way for us to come back up is togetherness. Yes. Like the CEO said, our culture should be in something where someone is having dinner and then two of my people are dancing up and down for them. No. Our culture is our culture. Our culture is pride. It's those prides that we need. When we start looking at development, and we say, I belong here.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:47

I'm not an entertainment. I belong on the table. I'm not under the table. So what we've done with the festival is bring it back. As she said, we use the arts and culture to bring people together for the week. However, our issues are plenty. So we have different side events to bring out all the issues. That one of them is a one-day writer's retreat. Celebrating Professor Austin Bukenya. Austin Bukenya is in his 80s. Probably not celebrated enough. I don't know if you know him. He's from Uganda.

SPEAKER_07 2:23:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:23

That's okay. And then bring some of the publishers, local publishers here, that have done a lot of things into the room also to say we need to be the one writing for the continent. We need to write our own stories. We have a one-day media conference teaching our kids how to report. Today, they will say, I mean, go and watch some of this syndicated, um, syndicated news. You would think Nairobi is burnt down.

SPEAKER_09 2:23:48

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:49

I mean, my my mom calls me twice a day to make sure those Kenyans haven't killed me. She called me this morning already. You know, and I'm saying, mom, I'm actually having a good time, maybe even better time than you.

SPEAKER_07 2:24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:02

But if we don't be the one to say our own story, we would also, those things would also be there. They would devalue our currency, they will devalue our lives, but more than anything, it's to make our children feel inferior. And so that's why it's important in what we are doing. We're going to talk about all the things she mentioned: your AI, your blockchain technology, your health, your fashion, your food. But we're also saying the world is a new place today.

SPEAKER_10 2:24:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:30

We are open into bringing other cultures in.

SPEAKER_10 2:24:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:33

We are inviting all other countries, as she said in uh in Kenya, to bring, come and take a space. Call it your own. Promote your culture. Showcase. Promote your food. Promote your fashion. Promote your people. Let's be inclusive. By bringing all of us together, you start realizing that, you know, for example, like you said, you like a Swatini.

SPEAKER_07 2:24:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:57

It must be because of their clothing. Yes. Right? So let's say because you want to get clothing from a Swatini, now you don't have to buy from London anymore. You can meet someone from a Swatini and you can say, I want to do this, and you can trade quicker than that. Those are the things that we are.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:13

And in case I want to have uh maybe a third wife or fourth wife, oh I want to know how is the dowry there? How is the negotiation? Do I need to go with my elders? What does it want to do?

SPEAKER_05 2:25:26

I actually when you you said something earlier that I was weeping for you inside me already.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:32

So you said you've never bought anything over seven thousand dollars for you. Remember you said that? Yes. Okay, do you know those cows that you've probably seen them from Uganda? The Ancole. Ancole. Yes. So they have similar in in Eswatini.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:25:48

So if you're gonna be taking your third or your fourth wife and you never spend over seven thousand dollars, all your road podcast stuff, you'll be mortgaged. Okay. So to take the third wife. So I'll be there. Just just come to Kisumu.

SPEAKER_07 2:26:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:04

At the end of the day, I'll make sure I chain everything down so you don't lose yourself. Even your headphones.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:10

But but I tell you what, I don't mind mortgaging everything for those women. If that's what it takes. And all the bachelors in their house. I know you know what I'm talking about. And even those who will listen to this, please check out Eswatini. Okay. And the culture there.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:24

So all the bachelors, please come to Kisumu.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:29

We'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_09 2:26:30

Thank you so much. Back to Madame CEO. What does it take to even get a stall? What does it take to come and experience the seven days of African culture in Kisumu with the land of Obama?

SPEAKER_04 2:26:46

We want you there. This is about celebration of our African cultures and uh really a unique way of experiencing everybody in one room. When we talked about global cultural effusion, is one of the uh one of the people will be uh who will be giving us an item is uh the German uh Bassander uh who has confirmed his participation. He plays the saxophone, and we are challenging other high uh profile leaders like that. If you have a talent and you want to showcase, and this is all about the global uh culture infusion into the program, come on board and uh play your saxophone, play your guitar, you know, play a number, the Kenyan embassies that are uh the the foreign embassies that are here in Kenya who want to challenge you to support your community. Uh, most of them, when they have their independence days, they do invite their cultural groups that are represented in the country to come and participate. Um, you know, support them to come and be part of this infusion. I know that we have uh a group sponsored by the Mamma Grassa uh Michelle Foundation from um uh Mozambique that is specifically and a band from Mozambique that is being supported by So you're saying Mozambique will be in the house? Mozambique will be in the house, and they are coming in numbers, including a band from Mozambique. Uh we have uh Burundi in Kenya that will also be participating. Rwanda in did you say Rwanda? Rwanda will be there.

SPEAKER_09 2:28:29

Oh guys, this is the festival to be in. If Rwanda is in the house, you should be in the house. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:37

Yes, and of course, Nigeria will be there showcasing the various cultures from Nigeria, Ghana, South Africa. So our neighbors, Uganda, Tanzania? Of course, Uganda and Tanzania, they're coming. Ethiopia? Uh-huh. Why not? Uh Sudan? Do you know Ethiopia was to host the third festival, but it never happened?

SPEAKER_10 2:28:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:00

And we want to challenge them to come to the festival so that they can really be part of this experience.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:05

And they don't need a passport.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:06

They don't need a passport.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:07

They don't need a visa. See? Just walk in. Thank you. Very nice.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:12

So there's no reason why we can't create. And Oxwell, during this week, we are saying that let's create the biggest trade uh intro-africa trade platform so that we can exchange products, we can trade with each other, and we can see how we elevate and lift the bar of intro-Africa trade during that week.

SPEAKER_07 2:29:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:33

So find your space on www.festacafrica.org.festacafrica.ke or g.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:49

Yes. Very nice. Now, I don't know which camera you need to look at. Speak to the young grace who are coming up. Share the vision. And uh after. Words, uh, engineer. Which camera should the engineer look at after grace? This one and speak to our listeners, young uh engineers who want to create flying cars. Okay, now flying cars are there. Maybe go to the moon, I don't know, whatever it is, and speak to them, and then we'll conclude with an African proverb, if not proverbs.

SPEAKER_04 2:30:22

Beautiful. And some African music, maybe. Yeah, yes. Um, to my fellow Africans, I take this opportunity to say thank you for listening. I want to also say the journey uh that you are walking today is your celebration every day. Don't wait for tomorrow to celebrate your smallest milestones. Celebrate them every day. Be authentic to yourself, be true to yourself. Your journey is your own story. Tell it, own it, and be real and true to yourself. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 2:31:02

Very nice, very nice.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:04

Please, sir. Um, I think before I pass my message, there's a piece that I want to make sure we don't walk away and talking about. We talk about what the festival stands for. Okay. Promoting Inter-Africa trade, promoting inter-Africa travel and tourism, also using sports as a platform to bring in the youth and the children into what we do.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:27

So there will be movies, as I say, as was said before. There will be STEM education, which gets into coding, which is some of the areas where you can come in.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:38

And there will also be the sports action.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:41

So there are a lot of camps that's going to happen for children. There's also going to be games for older people, your adua and all those things. So the festival is there for everybody, including the jumping castle for your two or your three-year-old.

SPEAKER_07 2:31:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:55

So my message, uh, for me, uh, yes, I was a Jen, whatever you call it when I was there.

SPEAKER_07 2:32:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 2:32:02

And I understand your struggle. Yes. And your struggle is real. It's needed because a lot of our leaders haven't done well. And I'm not talking about one country, I'm talking about just across the continent. Uh, because we cannot continue like this and be behind the other world forever. So your cry and your your request is heard. However, the continent needs to move forward. The message is once we are where we are, and once the leaders have heard what your message is, before you go to fight, you have to have a retrieval strategy. It is important to step back. Look at the implementation of your request. You have been asked to be included in the decision going forward. Assign again, assign real, benevolent, caring leaders. Not people that are just there also that learn how to speak to the camera for their own positioning to be whatever title in politics tomorrow. Identify real guys that are really guys and girls that really care about your future. You cannot, a leader cannot speak to 20 million people at once. He has to have a representative to speak to. He or she has to have. So identify people that can lead. You are lucky today that you have technology to be right on time with information. So you can see what is going on. You can give your feedback. Let's understand that as we continue this movement, we need to be careful that we don't further devalue the continent. I wish you well. Uh, we'll also say I'm gonna stay Gen Z forever. Um, so I'm one of you. Uh, we everything you're doing, may God may God bless all your efforts. But again, lead right. You are going to be the seniors of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_09 2:34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:34:10

Asante Sina.

SPEAKER_09 2:34:11

Thank you so much, engineer. Uh, but there's a question we missed from uh one of the listeners going at Yosef Foley. And Foley is written with FH. I don't know if she's from uh or is from South Africa or Kenya.

SPEAKER_04 2:34:25

What's the question?

SPEAKER_09 2:34:26

The question is I have a question for Grace. Since I have I haven't had the opportunity to travel as much, is the fact that we don't have any Kenyan product in the SA market due to regulation, or is it simply because they have better products and ours can't compete?

SPEAKER_04 2:34:47

Uh thank you very much for that question. I think it's not because uh of having who has better products or not. I believe it's all issues of regulatory, which also continue to be discussed and addressed. I know during Uhuru's regime, this was addressed in South Africa, and uh the two presidents at the time sat down and said that they need to see a change. In fact, at the time there was like a 15% penetration of Kenyan products into the South African market. Whereas in uh in uh South African products in Kenya, you could probably find quite a sizable over 50% probably of products. And these are ongoing conversations. Of course, it has a lot to do with borders and taxes and all of that. Even by the time the products leave Kenya to get to South Africa, the tax issues are just way too many. So these are ongoing conversations, and these are all driven with all these intra-Africa trade uh barriers that we have. So we need to task a team of young people to do research. How do we create how do we remove these barriers and how do we really want to trade with one another? And those conversations start with conferences and conversations such as uh Festaq, where we're saying, let's trade and let's talk about how we can enable product movement across the continent for one another. Yeah, visa issues are also a problem. Um, I was a victim of this ETA personally. It's not something I can celebrate. It has probably done more damage to Kenya than good. Uh you can call it whatever you call it, it's still a visa. Uh I think if it's a fee that we pay for facilitating the travel, it's okay. But if I have to go through that long process screening and produce so many documents and papers with so many uh issues, then it's a problem. I almost lost my life in January. I was involved in a fatal car accident because uh of the changes of the visa. And I had to go home, and on my way home, I was involved in a very, very bad car accident that left the driver dead. So for me, it it just tells you how uh critical it is that we address the visa issues, number one, because they are the biggest. I couldn't travel, actually. I was grounded for three weeks back.

SPEAKER_09 2:37:14

That is in South Africa.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:15

In South Africa, but coming back to Kenya. Coming back home, I could not come back.

SPEAKER_09 2:37:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:20

And that created a lot of for me, there I'd lost my travel visa issues.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:26

Uh so is it a visa travel, uh free country, or what are the issues of travel?

SPEAKER_07 2:37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:37:32

And until we open our borders to trade with each other freely and allow free travel without visas, like Rwanda has done. The only country that freely you can say you can travel from Africa to Africa. Yeah. I mean, from Africa to Kigali to Rwanda, that is the only country where we can say for sure they have implemented visa uh visa-free travel. The rest, yeah, we are talking too much.

SPEAKER_09 2:37:58

I agree with you. Thank you. Thank you so much. And uh that was a really good insightful uh view from that question. And uh I'm gonna conclude with uh Isizulu proverb, which says, and if I get the accent wrong, I need to travel to South Africa. Which says, a person is a person because of other people. Don't forget that. As Africa keeps talking, through Impact Masters, we need cohesion, collaboration, and celebrating our own before anything else. Thank you so much for joining us. Until next time, I'm your host, Michael Kemadi, if you want MK.

SPEAKER_00 2:38:53

Quick pause, folks. We're and that's a wrap on today's episode of Impact Masters. Thank you for tuning in and sharing this space of growth and empowerment with us. Remember, every step you take has the potential to create an impact. Keep exploring, keep questioning, keep implementing, and most importantly, keep mastering your impact. Remember to check us out on all platforms by searching for Impact Masters. Subscribe, follow, and share. www.impactmasters.io. See you in the next one.