Airtime, Data and Impact Across Africa with Luchiri Omoto | Impact Masters Podcast

Two truths can shape a career and a continent: simplify what matters, and put humans first. That’s the heartbeat of our conversation with Luchiri Omoto—commercial lead for airtime and mobile data at Africa’s Talking—whose journey runs from Kakamega and Thika to Alliance High, JKUAT, Google, Upande, and back into the engine room of developer infrastructure across Africa.

We dig into the rituals that form durable networks (Alliance’s tie test and sports sets), the discipline learned on a hockey pitch, and how a detour into geomatics positioned Luchiri to help build Google Maps across African cities. From there, the lessons get bigger: why your real competitor may be a beer, not a brand; how seeding products in universities compounds adoption tenfold; and what happens when drones shift the cost curve—until one bad decision hardens regulation for everyone.

The middle act turns practical. At Upande, mobile data collection displaced paper surveys as Android costs fell. With IoT, sensors made water and agriculture measurable in real time—but incentives, not tech, blocked scale where non-revenue water is profitable. At Africa’s Talking, Luchiri channeled that reality into action: clean operations, local market ownership, and developer-first airtime APIs that enable instant, programmatic rewards and distribution at scale. We explore resellers, NGO use cases, cross-border rollouts, and the evolving economics of data as telco models mature.

Threaded through it all is a civic pulse: Gen Z accountability, alumni service, and the reminder that giving someone a chance can change a life—and a system. If you care about African tech, product-market fit, or how infrastructure and culture amplify each other, this story offers a clear playbook: speak needs plainly, measure what counts, and build for the long run. If this resonated, follow, share with a friend, and leave a review—then tell us the one idea you’re taking into your work this week.

Transcript

Opening & Show Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Impact Masters Podcast in collaboration with Africans Talking Retold Podcast, where every conversation sparks new insights. Join us as we delve into the stories of extraordinary individuals who are shaping our world. Movers and shakers in tech, policymakers, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and all those whose stories are worth telling. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and transformed. Welcome, and let's embark on this journey of discovery together, Impact Masters Podcast. You can check us out on all social media platforms. You can also find us across all podcast channels. Simply search for Impact Masters. Then subscribe, follow, and share.impactmasters.io. Here's your host, Michael Kamathi.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

All right, alright. Thank you so much. It's another beautiful day. And uh we are graced by one and only an amazing guest today. Not sure you're ready.

Africa’s Talking at 14: Products Overview

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Uh, this is uh in collaboration with Africa Stalking and Impact Masters podcast. Um and uh this series is about celebrating Africa Stocking 14 years of operation across Africa. Africa Stocking is a communication uh API platform providing uh solutions for developers as well as businesses who want to scale their communication uh using 2G technology and now 3G offering. We offer voice uh solutions, uh SMS, USSD, mobile data and airtime. And today, actually, the guest uh will tell us more about mobile data and airtime. Uh we also used to offer high OT APIs for developers. He was also part of that team, he was tell us a bit about that. Uh we used to offer payment APIs. Uh, if if you if you'll be able to talk briefly about that, that would also be great. And uh yeah, I mean, uh just uh checking out where we have come from, uh, to where we're going uh in this journey of ensuring that you're empowering

Guest Intro: Luchiri’s Background & Sectors

SPEAKER_01 2:12

developers across Africa. The guest today is an amazing guest. Uh he's passionate about new tech. Uh he has over 10 plus years experience with a focus in IoT and GIS. He has led projects teams working innovative IoT and GIS solutions, uh, successfully implementing uh solutions across Africa. And he's uh also excited about IoT projects, which is involved uh serving various sectors, specifically in agri tech, uh, with the you know preference of horticulture, uh water sector, logistics, uh transport and warehousing, asset tracking, property management, smart homes, security, uh, and also is a specialist in business growth and strategy, team management, customer relationship management, mentoring, name it. He has it all. And not to say he's an Alliance iSchool alumni. Uh it's just an understatement because he's currently the chairman of the alumni association. Of course, of recent uh Alliance uh has uh has done a couple of uh good and bad things at the same measure. I hope you'll be humble enough and kind to delve into how we can uh you know resolve uh the quagmire that we are facing with Gen Z's. If you listen to this in 2100, uh in 2024, Gen Z said, we are not taking this anymore. The government ought to do more. And uh they went on streets, uh, occupied parliament, as we speak right now, the occupying Ministry of Health, they're occupying, they they're just trying to change the corruption aura in the in the ecosystem, ensuring that they are holding the leaders

Gen Z Civic Moment & Accountability

SPEAKER_01 4:03

accountable. And uh some of the notable alliance alumni's uh taking charge, both in government and both in the civilian uh side of things, uh, which is a good thing. And uh, you know, uh if this we fix this, then it means good things for for this country and Africa at large. So uh we support the reject movement and occupy as Impact Masters podcast and as Africa's talking return podcast. Um so the guest is one and only Luchiri Omoto, who is currently the commercial scroll uh in uh AT and is in charge of airtime and mobile data.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

And uh, but his background will start all the way from where Lucieri started, and then we'll come up to where he is right now and the plans he has for the products and uh you know the challenges uh that we have faced, we'll share all of them, the learnings, uh the growth, uh, you know, so that if a company listens to this in the next 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, they can be able actually to learn from our lessons as Africa is talking as we celebrate uh the growth that we have experienced uh and uh the the empowerment that you have created across Africa. How are you, Luchiri Omoto? Fine, thank you.

Early Life: Kakamega to Thika

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Do you prefer Luchiri or Omoto? Is there's another one?

SPEAKER_05 5:30

Uh Luciri is my name.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Luci is your name.

SPEAKER_05 5:33

Omoto is the surname.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Ah, very nice. Yeah. So Luchiri. Yes. You know, this has been uh forthcoming for a while. And thank you so much, by the way, for making time. I don't take this for granted.

SPEAKER_05 5:45

My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Because for me, uh and a couple of uh, you know, people in the room, uh, we are we are dedicated to telling our story because you know, Africans sometimes we we are a bit shy. Uh when we look at ourselves, we're like, we're not enough. You know, you know, what is there to tell? We have not even made it. But uh, you know, these stories actually build some momentum uh for startup, for other individuals, for our children and children's children to be able to see actually this is the journey that you know happened. And uh if there are any mistakes made, they can learn from them and grow uh to build a better, better ecosystem. So thank you so much and welcome. Asante, welcome.

SPEAKER_05 6:23

Happy, happy to do this.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yes. So where did Lucieri start? And actually, in between there, I'll mention some uh significant people who are related to you, if you allow me. Uh, because uh I was also surprised uh because of your name, actually. Okay, I'm surprised. Ah, you're related. That's that's very nice. Uh yeah. So Luciri, where did you all start? Like, where were you born and raised?

SPEAKER_05 6:46

Yes, uh you know, the Gen Z mentioned something that caught me off guard. They say we were born in the 1900s. Those of us who were born in the 1900s, if you say 1900s, to us, it's the picture of 1901 to somewhere 1920. Those are the 1900s. But yeah, yeah, I have nieces and nephews who say guys born in the 1900s. Yeah, I feel like a hundred years old. But uh uh born almost 42 years ago, oh 1982, yes, in Kakamega. Yes, yeah, Kakamega, which side is it? The municipality or the town. The town. Uh, I think um uh product of the Kakamega Hospital, it's a district hospital, yes. Yeah, yes. Uh fond memories from there, earliest memories, of course. Uh we were there for about, or rather, I was there for about uh four years or so because then my dad uh quit the civil service. He was a teacher. Okay. Uh primary or secondary? Primary. Okay. Uh lately, I over the last few years. He's now retired, he's old, he's 85. Okay. We've been asking him what inspired him to make that change.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

Uh and uh I guess that's it's called a bold step. Yeah. Moving during those days from uh a job that

Thika’s Industrial Rise and Stall

SPEAKER_05 8:20

you are guaranteed pension and uh teachers who are well respected, he was uh headmaster, decided to jump into the NGO world, not even NGO, uh he joined the YMCA. Okay, yeah, it's a Christian organization. Yeah, they are all over the world and also in Kenya. And uh he had started off in Busia, then we moved to Thika. So actually, Kakamega, I have young fond memories. Okay, but uh I'd say um I've grown up in Thika.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

In Thika. Thhika township. Yes, yes, yes. And and by this meaning that if you're born in 1982 and uh you spend most of the time in Thika, then you have seen actually it become almost a city, and then it has stalled because uh the plan was, so I know, that the the the industrial was supposed to be along Mombasa Road and Thika, those were supposed to be industrial towns that serves Nairobi and does the export, yeah, but things have stalled a bit in Thika town.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Yeah, uh I don't think it's anymore the industrial town that it used to be. Because I think somewhere down the line in the 90s they started collapsing. I remember going into Thika, there were very many uh factories or industries. Yes. Uh from clothing to vehicle manufacturing, food processing, you know. Kenya Cannas was there, yeah, then called Kenya Cannas Del Monte. Uh we had several uh clothing factories, yes. Uh Thika Textile and a few others I forget. Yeah, it was actually indeed an industrial town.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Uh what used to be called Leyland, Kenya Vieco Manufacturers. Yeah, there was metal box. Goodness, we were even doing metal and exporting.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

So yeah, Thika was actually oh and Broadways, I'm sure some Kenyans.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Oh, Broadway's uh Broadway's can bless, yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:25

They are in Broadway's can blessed, they were all in Thika. So actually it's true. Oh, you're taking me way back. Thika was an industrial Broadway is still there.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

One one of those breads that was his love.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

Grew up uh buying their bread, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And it's quite it's quite a ford memory to you know to imagine Broadway still supplies the brand.

SPEAKER_05 10:46

Oh, yeah. Sadly, I don't see it anymore.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

No, it is there, yeah. Broadway, and uh it's considered sugar, you know, a bit sugar-free or something.

SPEAKER_05 10:55

Yes, the taste is different. I think the others started putting sugar in there as well. Yeah, but yeah, so thika was quite an industry.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

So when did you relocate at what which class were you when you relocated?

SPEAKER_05 11:07

When we moved

Schooling Realities: Public vs Private

SPEAKER_05 11:08

in, actually, my entire schooling life was in Thika because I think we moved there, I moved there in '87, okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

86.

SPEAKER_05 11:20

Okay, perhaps, if not earlier. But I know I started my primary school, my nursery school there.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Uh my nursery school was just within the compound. Oh, nice. The YMCA in Thika is uh is a college. Okay, it was a technical college.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

So it's fully fledged in terms of education and all.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Yes. No, we only had a nursery and then the tertiary masonry, carpentry. Oh uh that's what they used to offer. And my dad was the manager there, my mom was housewife. So I started nursery school there. Uh so it was probably called Thika YMCA nurseries.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

I don't I don't remember the name of the one. But you know, I'd guess. Someone would just start a nursery, which nowadays they call it daycare.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

But then it was now there's the the I don't know. Yeah, there's kindergarten there's kindergarten, there's pre-unit, there's PP1, PP2. I went to nursery. That's it. That's it. I went to nursery, I spent almost three years there, and that was it. Yeah, and then after that, uh I still studied my primary school in Thika. This is a school called General Cargo.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

General Cargo is so popular. It is, yeah, it is. Oh my goodness, happy to hear that. I knew it was before I knew Vika.

SPEAKER_05 12:40

Yeah, yeah. Uh studied at General Cargo from standard one all the way to class eight.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

And then how was that like?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Any anything sanctive to remember?

SPEAKER_05 12:52

No, it was it was a good experience. Yeah, it was you know, anything to remember that time. Uh I remember when we were looking for a school for my son. Now, this is we later now. Yeah, in the 2014, no, 2016 or thereabout. And we are scouting for schools in the Kilimani Lovington area. And I visit these so-called private schools. And uh I'm looking at the school fees and I'm telling myself, I'm paying all this much for the same facility, or even worse, and how I grew up, the school I public school I went into.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:41

Because I could compare the buildings, uh, the field is not even comparable. We used to have uh field where five teams could play football, the girls could play carte and bannier and volleyball.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

And see, there's some space for the the the Chiara Tiara to hang out.

SPEAKER_05 14:02

Because you can imagine eight classes from class one to eight, yeah, and streams of three, and break time was for everybody between I think was it 10 or 10:35 to 11. Yeah, and we all used to fit somehow outside. Yeah, so then public schools

Alliance High: Culture, Ties, and Food

SPEAKER_05 14:21

then were quite something, they were good, yeah. Yeah, but here I'm being told to pay an arm and a leg.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I'm looking at the facilities and just apartments, yes, converted into classes.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

It's public schools then, the facilities were just as good as what I'm being told now is a private school. Yeah, and I cannot. And it is these taunted, nice private schools. Yeah, so yeah, I I keep I keep telling my wife and friends uh middle class is all about massaging egos. Yeah, it's a fraud.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, we pay more to be massaged than for quality, no magic value.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Sad to say that's where we are. Yeah, so yeah, uh, eight years in General Cargo primary school. Uh we go to high school. Now, I think when I was there, uh I had older siblings. So, and uh my brother who I looked up to and uh went to Thikahai. Yeah, now Thika High from where we used to live was probably not more than two kilometers walk. And he would come home during the holidays and give us stories about Thika High and whatnot. So I'd made up my mind. Yeah, uh, I'm sure Thikahai people will be happy to hear about my i school. This guy, this guy said he at least he admired going to Thikahai. Yeah, so uh yeah, my bro, who's now you know, when you are younger and you have an older brother, you look at oh yeah, oh goodness, yeah, no question about it. Thika high. Yeah, so even when we used to feel those things, uh, I don't know which world I used to live in because I don't remember ever hearing, okay. You know, you hear alliance and whatnot, and you're like, okay. This is the place I want to go. No, no, no, no, it wasn't for me. It was oh, there are people who go there. Then there is man when I'm driving. Uh you know, when I went to Thika, there were buses called Jogokemakiya. Before the the the current one, the current one is not no before Kenyampia there used to be Jogokemakias. That's what we used to. So you pass somewhere just before Waitio or the town, and you see a plane. Yes. So I knew there's mango. Ah, those guys have aviation. They there's a there's a plane there. Somebody said they are content uh flying on the ground. Uh and they have been for the longest time. Was that an alliance joke, or it came from one of us, but I don't know if it's an alliance joke. But it's the fact for mango guys, the aviation, the plane was always there, yeah, uh constantly.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

The banter is real. I wish Teddy was here. You know, Teddy is fond of uh he's a Lenana, he's a is a is a he's a Lenana graduate, but he's he's also so familiar with the the rivalry is there always there in the sports.

SPEAKER_05 17:28

Yeah, we will get to it. Uh yeah, so yeah, I knew there were those schools, but probably they are not for me. Uh there are people who go there, yeah. But then my brother is at Thika High, yeah, and the stories I hear. So I'd signed it was uh rather clear, that's where I'm going. So even my dad knew because now uh he would know the principal, the headmaster then at Thika High, your neighbors, the son is there. Uh so yeah, it was like a done deal. Okay, and then uh I think now from my primary school for the very first time, I think when I was in class six, somebody went to Alliance.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

From that school, yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

And when I was in class seven, I think somebody went. My sister went to Alliance Girls. She's almost what four years older than me. But still it hadn't clicked that this is something that can happen. So we go feeling that thing, and I'm like, uh, I think the choices were done for me, the national schools. Yeah. So me, I knew it's thika high. Those days we used to feel like two or three. Thika high, neri high. I don't know if I put Kiambu high, ukuju, starehe is like I have to fill forms and whatnot. Yeah, and so I put alliance, man, starehe, maybe. Yeah, but it's just that like a by the way, but yeah, I knew thika high. It's across the road. If anything happens, I run home. Until we go to get our living certificates and whatnot. Uh yeah, this is even before results are out. And one of my teachers used to be a lovely teacher called uh Mrs. Chepkuoni. Looks at me and says, because we are with my dad, who you attack are lions. I'm like, what is a lion? Yeah, what are you talking about? Yeah, and uh true to it, results come, yeah, and uh you have the grades. I didn't even know if I have the grades. I I got good marks.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

But before that, were you not a performer? I was, I was, I was, I was.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

That one I was.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

You know what is funny, Lucieri? Everyone who comes here who was going to the national schools, it's not like it was a big deal, or it's something they worked really hard towards. But it shows from maybe even class three, like this one always acces it. So it's it's fascinating me to see how unprepared, or maybe I don't know, I don't know what to call it, but how unprepared most of the guests who went to these schools are like, you know, it just came. I was lucky, I was one of those guys, and uh I was invited.

SPEAKER_05 20:19

I went there are some who are actually prepared. I I know a few year mates who say to host one prepared. Yes, you're yet to host one. Yeah, and I think most of them prepare.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Some of us are like we are here, so

Sports & Grit: Hockey Lessons

SPEAKER_01 20:36

yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

Results come, and uh the invitation letter says it comes. Uh you have been to Alliance High School. Yeah, what I remember about that letter is the food part. I got the feeling it says the food here is just enough to keep your brain working. Anything else, forget about. And that was true. But then the most excited person is my dad. I'm like, what's the big deal? Because when that letter came, I think for like a whole week he would go everywhere with me. This is my guy. This is my guy. He's like, uh, we go to the shopkeeper, somebody I've known for almost 15 years. You know this guy is going to Alliance. He's going to Alliance. Yes. Mr. Karaoke, our shopkeeper for years. Why do you have to tell him this guy is going to Alliance? Any other person who comes, he's going to alliance. Yes. Including his older brother in shags.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yes. The boy has been called to alliance.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

Then I'm like, what's what's with this alliance? He drops me at the school, then he starts mentioning names. You know, Peter Nyang Yonga was here. Amos Wako was here. I'm still clueless. Who are these guys? Yes, who are these guys? No, I mentioned that because the most interesting thing is one day during COVID, he had just recovered. He stayed with us for like three months. So I'm flying him home. We are twinstorm, Wilson. And guess who's there? Peter Anyangon. And I'm the one now introducing my old man to a this person he kept talking telling me about. I'm like, how life turns out. You know, to him, these are people he used to hear and admire. Yes. If you mention Emos Wako, he's like, you know, during our time, because I think they are age mates. Yeah, uh, they used to get D's were good then because they are distinctions. Emozwako got six D's. Like distinctions. Yes. And he was top brain. Nowadays, I'm the one introducing him to these people. Yeah. The people used to tell me about introducing him. So yeah, there's that twist in life and very nice. Yeah. So yeah, uh, Alliance High School. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Was the food enough to keep the no?

SPEAKER_05 23:02

Yeah, the food was just enough for the brain. Anything else, uh, you have to live on you have to live on bread from the canteen or provided by the school?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

No, not provided by the school. So, what kind of food do they serve them?

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Uh white not that I'm getting old. I could actually tell you the menu from Monday to Sunday. It was different for different days? Yes. Yeah. But I know the worst was when we were getting uh Ugali and cabbage. And if you are a form one, lucky enough to get your piece of meat in there. Oh, the big boys have to eat. Oh, the big boys have to, we call it fishing. We have to look for because they go there fast, they pick fast. Oh, even if they don't go fast.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Oh, they'll come and they'll just come when you are seated.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

Oh no, you are from uh so what used to happen the table leaders, as we used to call them, because students still used to serve. Yeah, for the big boys, you put

From KCSE to JKUAT: Choosing Geomatics

SPEAKER_05 24:00

at least three pieces of meat for a form one, you get one after everybody else has gotten everything.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

And it might be a bone.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

Ah no, why would you even get the bone? So this time my monolization was just polite, but it feels you know you you you get your one piece, but even that one piece you're not guaranteed because uh form three are notorious uh or form twos, form fours never used to bother, they are now settled serious, yeah. Like these are just yeah, they expect their five pieces. So a form three or form two just come go through your food. They called it fishing, yes, it's called fishing. That's it. So there used to be days of uh ugali, and a Sunday was the best because at least we would get a sausage or an egg. That's for breakfast, yes, and Uji. Yeah, uh the rest of the days, the tea. I remember the cup was small, the tumbler, yeah, very small. Yeah, and uh of course, form twos used to do the serving. They would fill the form fours cups first, then the form threes, and then uh form twos, and then form ones last.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

And how would they know this is a form two cup, this is a form one, this is a form three?

SPEAKER_05 25:22

Uh you know, were they marked or it was no, it was very well organized. Uh first of all, we are organized in houses. So we at back then we had eight houses, and the houses are now categorized into domes. So in my house, agri, there was dome five, six, seven, and eight. And each dome has a form four, has a form three, has like five form fours, five form threes, so on and so forth. So even in the dining hall, that's the order in which you sit on. You know that side of the dining hall is agri, and then agri dome five, six, seven, eight, that's where they sit. And then, of course, on that table, form fours will sit at the most comfortable place at the very end. So if you are a table leader, you serve the five or four cups, you push them aside. Form ones for convenience, because you'll be the one being sent. Get spoons, get salt, go buy me mandazis. So you sit right at the edge. Now we were on the powering tea thing. So after they serve the form fours, form threes, form two, those guys are assured they are teas. T. Yeah. Form ones, you might get half uh what is it called?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Majani. Sieved tea.

SPEAKER_05 26:42

Yes, the tea leaves, and then a quarter uh is is tea. Thinking, thinking the whole thing is tea. By the time you are halfway through, the rest is tea leaves. Anyway, it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

And and and was there monolization there of sort, or uh let's be honest, there's always some sort of monolization, as we call it. Uh uh there was, there, there, there was, but not not the violent was actually more intellectual, yeah. You can put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, and at Alliance you also meet some, you know, guys from all over.

SPEAKER_05 27:22

Yes, that's the beauty, less privilege, yes, and it is from Alliance that I learned. You know, when you when you're growing up, you tend to be told, oh, rich guys are not smart. Or poor guys always work harder, they are smarter. And you arrive at Alliance and you find a guy being dropped in a beam and scoring his A's, yeah, and a guy who doesn't even go home during holidays, and he's scoring his A's. Yeah. And an average guy from a middle class family like me, and I'm doing averagely. Yeah, so it was it was all a mix up. So that's when I realized nah you cannot stereotype, you cannot say this is like this,

Founding a GIS Startup: Early Market Gaps

SPEAKER_05 28:08

and like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Intelligence is equally distributed.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

All right, so uh you get to form three.

SPEAKER_05 28:16

I get to form three. Uh what about form three?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

No, I mean by then you are settled. You said you know, form three and form fours. No, when you have done it all, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

When you are form two, you are the naughty types. Uh when you are form one, you're given a guardian, call it uh a form two to help you. You do your we used to have something called tie test. And I think I should bring this one up because it really helps uh demystify why we always talk about Alliance High School even after we have left. Yeah, it is because of that tradition. It is almost uh like an unwritten constitution. For you to get your tie, you have to sit for a tie test. What's that? And the tie test is a book written by your guardian telling you about the history of the school. We will tell how big the school is, 105 acres. Not just a hundred approximately. You know, 150. I think it was 153 or 157. Did someone grab the rest? No, no, but I don't know. No, no, nothing has been grabbed, luckily, apart from the bypass, uh, which cut part of our rugby pitch. Yeah, yeah. So you know when the school started, you have to know the principles all the way from the beginning. Uh and then the other thing is the schedule Monday to Friday, morning to evening has always almost been the same. And I say this because if you have alliance alumni seated somewhere, we when we talk, it's like we were at the school at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:54

I mean, we were at the same school, but just different times. Okay. We will talk about morning work, we'll talk about About socials, we'll talk about choir practice. Rugby. I met Johnjo, I've met John Keane, I've met students who left in 2022, and we are just talking about the same thing. So that sort of makes you connect. Yes. You you you you you it's not like you're talking about different schools. So you're all talking about the same thing. So the connection is quite easy. So you meet an old boy who's been there from the 50s, yeah, and an old boy who left in the 2010s. It's still the same school.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:34

Cut us you have the tightest. We all can list our principals and headmasters. Uh depending on where you went, you can probably tell five, ten school captains behind the school captains during your time. Yeah. So you know, there is always, yeah, it has helped a lot.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Yeah. So this tiefest is still there.

SPEAKER_05 30:54

Tightest.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Tightest.

SPEAKER_05 30:55

Yeah. So for you, you'll go in,

Joining Google: Building Maps for Africa

SPEAKER_05 30:57

you'll get all your uniform apart from the tie. Now, for you to get the tie, the deputy school captain is responsible for the form one. Distribution, yeah. No, he's responsible for form ones. That's his JD.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:10

They are prefects in very odd positions at Alliance High School. But the DSC work is being responsible for the Form 1s and helping them settle.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

And how do you do this? Because I know also there might be hundreds of them.

SPEAKER_05 31:27

No, uh, then we the school was almost 700 and something. But you see, uh, he's just responsible for form one. So the other prefects will help. Okay. The guardians are there. He's just legal. Sometimes, yeah. During the first week, you'll actually make a mistake, and your guardian, your form two guardian, goes to punishment parade with you. Because he was supposed to tell you. You're not supposed to do this, you're not supposed to do that. So even for those guys to avoid such uh time wasting appearing on punishment parade, you'll make sure you are thoroughly grilled on the ways of the school. Yeah. So you get all your uniform apart from your tie. Yeah. Now, to get your tie, you get this small book when you land. You start reading about the school, the culture, and whatnot. And then one day you all sit for the tie test. And you have to pass for you to get the test.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

And the one who is interviewing you is the form two guardian.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

No, no, no, no. It's not an interview, it's a test. It's a test. Oh, you write it down? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 32:27

Set by the prefects. Okay. So you don't know what they'll test, but that's like our very first uh exams at Alliance. So you sit for tightest. And how long is this exam?

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Is it like after two weeks or two weeks?

SPEAKER_05 32:39

I think it's after a month or so.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Okay. So you have time to read and then.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

Yes, you have time to read and then uh and uh yeah. So are there people who fail? Yeah, there are people who fail. So what do they do? They never get the tie, or you don't get the tie, and everybody would know you don't have a tie because every other person will.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Is there like a receipt or yeah, and then you receit and then you how many times can you receipt this tie test?

SPEAKER_05 33:04

Uh believe you me, you only want to receipt it once. Um then. Anyone who receipts more than once is yes, yes. Uh something is totally a mess. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Even just by the way, do guys give up before they finish uh their their studies there?

SPEAKER_05 33:20

Yes. Uh there are people who give up because of the culture shock, others just because of uh personal issues, distance. But culture shock is what I'll happen.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah, like what percentage dropouts?

SPEAKER_05 33:31

Nah, this will be like one, two people every year, one or two.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Okay, yeah. That's that's understandable. Yeah, so what other thing that happened there at Alliance that is worth noting?

SPEAKER_05 33:44

I I I I can't tell much, but of course, from the away from the books, uh, it's the extracurricular. Oh, yeah. There were some sports once you join, that's it. Uh you'll do it at the hockey, yes. Hockey, rugby, swimming, choir, drama, uh-huh, uh basketball. Uh once you join that team in Form 1.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

That's your team.

SPEAKER_05 34:08

That's what you do. So when you join the categorized into sets, so if you join as a form one, you're probably in set 15 or something. And then as you progress, you'll join the set one. So by the time you're in form three, you should be ready for set one.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Which means you have mastered this over and over and over.

unknown 34:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

So that's the secret why you guys beat everyone. I thought, and some of us train for you know, command or sorrow and then and then win.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

No, uh, and it is the case all over. I hear uh in Is It Lenana, yeah, but uh before the other teams speak, uh huh, they have to go through rugby first, and you see how good such schools are.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

If you break your neck there or your aunt, yes.

SPEAKER_05 34:53

So for them, it is everybody first tries uh rugby and then the other teams can start selecting.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Because for them, rugby is the reality.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

Yes, rugby is the real deal. So I joined hockey and uh I played hockey till nationals, and I only know hockey when I was at Alliance, so it was hockey and the books.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

That's it. Tell me more about hockey. I don't know anything about hockey. You the first thing I was apart from seeing those uh what do they call them? Are they sledges

What Google Taught About Competition

SPEAKER_01 35:26

or something? It's a hockey stick. Hockey sticks and some fancy shoes. Yes. Please indulge me in this way.

SPEAKER_05 35:34

In the sport, yeah, uh it's a very addictive sport. That's one. The first the second thing I learned is it's only when you're playing with Kruutus, starters, that you get hurt. When you're an expert, you know how to swing, uh how to hit that bone, uh, when not to lift it too high. So when anybody's getting injured, it's it's it's good. People are not really and uh one of my interesting times on that pitch is you are a form one, yeah, you get there to harden you. Yeah, uh the form three is call you and tell you, form one, go sit next, go sit in the goal post without the gear.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Without the gear, they say, I want you to stop this ball. Isn't that very dangerous? Well, that's the point. That's the point to harden you. Because that's true, the reason why I wanted you to indulge me in hockey is of course I know the goalkeeper in a professional setting, they will have the gears to protect them. Yes, but when you're practicing, I've seen your guys cross the road. I used to live around there, uh-huh and and they don't have the gears, they just have the hockey stick most of the time, and just you know, some shoes or sometime done. Yeah, how how do you really keep safe? Uh experience.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

It's experience, it's a skill. Yeah, you you you see, everybody will hit that ball. Only the goalkeeper has it because chances of that ball being hit at him are more. But you see, even if you're a striker and you're waiting for the guys to start, they're always hitting that ball hard. So, and you only have your stick. So, we used to have guys who tell you, I'm hitting this ball and I don't want you to move your body, just the stick to stop it. Yeah, so don't finch, don't do anything. So that's the type of training we got.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

And and you really need uh a lot of um alertness, yes, to be able to really see where the ball is moving, the angle, the wind, yes, and all these things.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

Oh, it was it was a good game.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Is it is it the is it the reason why it's addictive? I guess so. Because we're always looking for that alertness, yes, otherwise, have you ever been injured uh throughout the game?

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Have I ever been hit? Uh no, but I had a classmate hit, a year mate hit, and lost a tooth. That's the worst. Okay, uh, yeah. My desk mate we also played hockey with, I think at some point broke his arm. It wasn't being hit, I think it was a fall. Okay, yeah, but those are those are the worst.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Yeah, breaking a leg or uh hand is the most cases. I have a friend who actually still plays hockey even after university, yes, and that's why I was so curious. He he I think uh we met last year and he was playing for UN because they also do like East Africa, Central Africa kind of competition. Yes, that's why I was I was curious to know more about it. We never had a sit-down to I lost him one of these fine days. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:34

So yeah, we played hockey, we went to the nationals, we were second runners

Upande Years: Drones, Mobile Data Collection

SPEAKER_05 38:39

up after who? Uh that year, I think Kamo Singa won. Friends, friends school, Kamo Singa might have won. I for one reason or another, I forget. They must have been playing another western school because we lost to Kamo singa friend school at the semis.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah. And not Kakamega High.

SPEAKER_05 39:01

No, those ones are better known for football, the green commandos, as they are called.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yes. And the food there plays a key role because of the oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Uh, we would host uh friend school at Alliance, and we will give them food that used to be for 10 people, then they'll say this is just enough for two.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Is there more coming? And it will remind you about your culture, yes, yes, yeah. So that's that's interesting. So, bookwise, how are you doing there? You know, this uh this time. Do we need to go into details about books? Don't worry, man. I will not.

SPEAKER_05 39:40

Just though we made it to campus, uh, proceeded to J Quart, did an engineering course. I very much wanted to do comp sciences. Okay. I'd been introduced to computers back at home.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

Uh you know, living in an institution, a Christian college. Somebody donates a computer somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

So yeah, I'd started playing with floppy disks. Yeah. And I think they can forgive me for this. You know, back then MSDO's 5.0 used to come in like uh 15 floppies. Uh I deleted files in one of them. Uh-huh. Then I just returned it and kept it there.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

So you means it can never install.

SPEAKER_05 40:27

So you know how people used to install then?

SPEAKER_01 40:29

It asked for disk one, you put in.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

Then two, you put in. Then they reached five, and it was like tiki tiki tiki. Something is wrong. Start all over again. I was like, goodness, I'm not gonna say I deleted.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

So they never they'll never know until if they listen to this.

SPEAKER_05 40:48

Until they listen to this. Hey, caca. That's crazy. So yeah, I wanted to pretty much do computer sciences and then uh just didn't hit the mark. I didn't get the points for it.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

And and and for J Quart uh for you to do computer, you intend did you intend to go to J Quart for these?

SPEAKER_05 41:08

I didn't intend to go to J Quart. I my siblings were at University of Nairobi, so I wanted to go to UN and do computer science. Yeah, and then this is the time that the universities were introducing new courses, yeah. Uh mechatronics engineering, actually J Quart, not universities, J Quart. It had introduced mechatronics engineering, geomatics engineering, and electric and electronics engineering.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:35

And they are both matching mechanical engineering, civil engineering, and uh electric and electric with that one. Yeah. So I'm like, I cannot do comp science. There are these new courses, and then my dad sort of knew a lecturer at J Quart. So he tells me it might be easier if you go to J Quart then I can talk to Mr. So and so. You go to the comp science class.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

Now, one of the greatest moments in my life, I believe, happened again at Alliance. So I go there and I find a teacher uh called Mr. Akwe, and I tell him, you know, I can't qualify for these. Uh I've field geomatics, but once I get there, I'll change to computer science. He tells me, do you have all the facts and details about this course? Yeah. Before you change, just make sure you know what this entails.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yes. The one that you have chosen.

SPEAKER_05 42:40

Yes. Oh, I'd already been called for it. So I was going for my living certificate or something.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:47

So we get to J4. We were the second class then doing geomatics engineering. I still wanted to change. You know, those ones where you go to see the teacher, you're being told the lecturer, you're being told he's not here. Uh blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:04

And then I'm looking at our coursework and there is some computer units. Yeah. And I'm like, maybe I should just do this. Because I'll still learn how to code anyway. And I stick in there doing dramatics.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:19

And then I'm just floating around in that class. I'm telling myself, maybe I'll employ my classmates because now I'm realizing I want to be an entrepreneur, whichever.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:29

I don't care about the degree. Yeah. So I'll use whatever comes. Now, being the second class, uh nobody really knows what these guys are doing.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:42

What is geometric engineering? I remember our colleagues in the civil engineering department used to call us we are still surveyors. It's only that so they used to say, Walewatu of civil engineers, you guys are surveyors. Why are you giving it such a fancy name? Yes, it's Savy.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

But mostly GIS is digitizing most of those processes.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

Yes. So I think these are just courses that now started using uh computers. Computing, yeah. Yes, more computing power more. Because uh when you talk of GIS, what is it's actually basically

IoT in Water & Agriculture: Hard Truths

SPEAKER_05 44:22

survey, right? You're using digital modern, yes, you're using very modern uh methods. Yeah, so you do GIS five years and uh oh it's a five-year course, it's an engineering course, okay. It's an engineering course with a lot of maths, and I hated maths from class three. Ever since uh Mrs. Minor in class three introduced divisions, I moved from a hundred percent to sixty-eight percent. And you relaxed, and the only other time I did better was KCP when I got 78, which was my lowest. And the trend then started again when I was in high school until form four. Yeah, and I scored my A minus, and I was like, this thing, man, there's some luck in it.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

So that's what you call like you hate if you get A minus, you hate that subject.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

I I hated it. There's a secret to it, which I say is a weakness in our education system.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Uh so yeah, uh, we finished geomatics engineering. Did you say there's a secret to getting A minus and edited, or the secret to what?

SPEAKER_05 45:30

Uh let's just say I had a good foundation, but uh, if I was gonna do my KCSE, yeah, the way I was going, I was doing my uh exams back in high school, yeah, I wouldn't have gotten the A minus.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

You would have gotten what?

SPEAKER_05 45:46

Uh probably a B plus or a B, to be very honest.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

You know, I learned I I learned a lot when I listen to my guests. A lot, a lot. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, people who die for A minus. I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't, yeah, just just for the record.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

So, yeah, then uh so we finished this course, and uh you know when you've finished you start wondering what do we do? Who even knows us out there in the market? Back then there would be very few companies.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

There was just one organization that is still there, Ramani, the one uh Geomaps Geomaps. I think so.

SPEAKER_05 46:26

Yeah, Geomaps or something GIS. Yeah, it's GeoMaps, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, so they're also just getting into this GIS thing, yeah. Uh remote sensing. Yeah, so a friend's me and some friends decide let's start a company. Uh because you know this is something new, we don't know where to get jobs.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Uh probably the smartest guys will get the companies we have all been dreaming about, the GeoMaps, the Ramani's. That's where they will go.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

And there'll be like 10 of them.

SPEAKER_05 47:01

Yes. What do the rest of us do? Uh so we decide to start a company. Yeah. Then we only understand this because maps is satellites and mapping on satellites. We are trying to crack our heads. So, what do we do?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:19

Uh, you know, maybe banks want to have their branches mapped, but to what end?

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Yeah, you know, what is the value? What is the real value that you're seeing? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 47:29

What is the real value? We also don't know what the real value is.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

And that is a true innovation, actually. You figure that out, you're in business.

SPEAKER_05 47:35

And then uh we start encountering things like, ah, uh, you know, now websites, websites are now catching up. Guys are starting websites, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Everyone wants to be built our websites.

SPEAKER_05 47:44

Yes. One of our friends comes and says, Oh, uh, my mom says their church wants to map. Then we start looking at the cost of satellite imagery. It's like, uh, is it $25 per square kilometer? So when you start thinking of acquiring satellite imagery, you're like, nobody's gonna, yeah, nobody's gonna. Yeah, but now this is the interesting twist. We uh we graduated in 2000 and uh 2007. Uh I've skipped out the part of being uh in the in the university. Yes, in 2002. We were you know, people wonder what these millennials have done. Yeah, I'm a hybrid, the next millennial. Yes, but we were the guys who voted in 2002.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

That was our first time to it was a game changer, actually. Yeah, that was a game change. But continue that trajectory.

SPEAKER_05 48:39

We are the guys who stopped listening mostly to foreign music and started uh studio in every corner. Yeah, every you remember that joke, every every estate in Nairobi as a studio.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

So see Kalamashaka, yes, we we are so we are we are those guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:58

I guess when you get good economic times, the only revolution you do is cultural, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

So really doing Kenyan music, changing the regimes and whatnot, and telling that story because even what we are doing at here actually is a revolution because we are trying to take record of the story and how far we have come, yes, and what can what really worked, what didn't work. Yes, it's still the same thing with music, whereby you if you listen to more music, you'll understand. People are also telling the story, are also expressing the fears and the trauma and all these things that are happening.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, apart from that, of course, student leadership, which was quite awesome. My first uh or rather first major taste on student leadership, facing uh uh administration, facing government, you know, such sort of things.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Yeah, that was in J Quat.

SPEAKER_05 49:52

In JQAT, yeah. When uh student chairman there, I was the vice chairman.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

And in high school, were you also a leader?

SPEAKER_05 49:57

No, no, no. High school, the best I did was play hockey and become the team manager, the guy who would give them bread and whatnot. And you start learning a few things, you know, you have uh pressure from students that we need to do this, the same pressure.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Our guys are giving uh

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SPEAKER_01 50:16

his excellency routers. We must go on strike, man.

SPEAKER_05 50:20

You're looking at your if we go on strike, you you are first online for any package.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

And then J Quad, by the way, for those who are there were just prefabs. Because when I was going to university, which is after you finish university, uh huh, I visited J Quad and was so discouraged by the structures.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

But J Quad was one of the most uh well uh built school.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

I don't know prefabs. I don't know which side, but where I visited, I was so discouraged because from the get A all the way was Maram Road. Yes. Then I where the people were at a common room was really like high school, and then there were so many men there that it was so so discouraged.

SPEAKER_05 51:02

We used to call it juja boys, yes. You remind me something interesting. Uh so for you know, there's the chairman, vice chair. There used to be a post called external secretary. That one used to be left for ladies, one way or another. I don't know why. For you to win that, you just needed to tell the juja boys that you are going to increase activities with KU. Because there they are more ladies. Who promised us more you'll have more funkies? Yes, who promised us more funkies with uh our brothers at the school of education at KU? I think this one sounds more convincing. External affairs X. Yo, we have already passed that. It was really dire. Oh, yeah. There was a reason why it's called Juja Boys. I mean, it was small then, it was 3,000 people. So I used to know that these are architecture students, sixth year, fifth year, fourth year, these are mechanical students, these are BSE students. It was like a small knit. Almost by name, not almost by name, but you could actually put people in there very down to their classes and years. Okay, that's how small J.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

So even when you're addressing uh, you know, the changes that you you're you're pushing the administration to address, you are well aware that maybe these guys, their workshoppers, no X, Y, Z. Yes, you know, the accommodation is not up to standards and so on and so forth. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:37

So it was a small, nice community. Now I hear it has blown up, it's no longer Jo Japan.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Man, it's crazy. I was there uh I don't know, early this year uh for Hakaban. Uh-huh. And actually, the first time I returned there was last year. If I'm I'm not strong, uh-huh. I was so I was taken aback, like the the the structures, the workshops, the the the people. You know, the cost is also have increased. Yes. And it's it's super amazing how how how fast things could actually change in 10 years or so.

SPEAKER_05 53:08

And there's one gentleman we need to credit for something. Uh the vice-chancellor Nick Wanjohi. Some people think right outside the box.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

He was the first person who ever mentioned it's not novel uh that we're gonna have uh uh university towns or what do they call them city, the campuses, the satellite campuses. No, but uh a town actually exists just because it has an institution, you know, like the MIT or whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yes, yeah, Boston is because of MIT, yes, yes, uh California, Berkeley, and Stanford.

SPEAKER_05 53:48

That's exactly what he had in mind, yeah, and that's what Juja is.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah, true, true to the word. It was just a sensor fun.

SPEAKER_05 53:55

The apartments you see at J Quart are courtesy of somebody saying we can do better. Yeah, the other thing we have to credit that time, the changes in education, is this thing that we used to limit uh uh attending uh university to bed. You know, intake will be pegged on. How many people can do it?

SPEAKER_01 54:19

How many accommodations?

SPEAKER_05 54:20

Yeah, that's nonsense, which is quite nonsense. Probably it used to make sense then. We are taking care of our future nicely. But can you imagine? And you're saying this year, oh, you all got uh B minuses, but you see the bed capacity in J Quart is 3,000, so we're gonna cut off is at B plus. Yeah, it's pretty stupid.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

So to an extent it just opened entrepreneurship around the institutions.

SPEAKER_05 54:42

Oh, yeah. Yeah, and you can see how built

Scaling Airtime APIs: Ops, Teams, Markets

SPEAKER_05 54:45

I still don't think that is growth because our urban planners let us go. It can be done better, yeah, but it opened up quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Yeah, and you mentioned something very interesting. Um, now that I'm wearing Stanford uh, you know, yeah. If you go to some of these institutions, uh they are just self-sustainable cities. Even the way you access them, anyone can access them. It's just that the security is high. And I hope we get there uh when we we fix most of these uh issues that we have. And you can actually visit there as a city and and even take away because that keeps it more sustainable. Because you don't visit there and not spend. Yes, you visit there and even see the culture. You look at how you are telling the story of alliance, not the same way you are telling the story of J Quad because that culture is like it's belfrited once you graduate. So I think there is a lot of work to be done, but it's good that uh, you know, some of our forefathers and and people who are still alive started that process. That thing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:47

So, anyway, so yeah, that that's J Quat where I tested real leadership, tested tear gas.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Do you think you changed the you know some of the things there as a leader?

SPEAKER_05 55:59

You you try to, you do your best, then somebody else picks up from there and continues.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

Uh what I saw being mentioned after we left is how we as a student union then handled most things uh very diplomatically that would have gotten out of hand. Gotten out of hand. Yeah, that's something I picked up later on because I could see guys writing, oh, if this was the because my chairman was called Abdallah. If this was the Abdallah Luciri days, this would have been handled diplomatically, and still everybody lives satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Were you like a vice chairman there?

SPEAKER_05 56:40

I was I was the vice chair of the union.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Okay, yeah. That's that's big, man. Uh, you know, you are saying is like nothing. Student uh leaders is uh they end up becoming presidents and governors and MPs and even all over the world, actually. Yeah, so it's quite something, and maybe you are too young. You might end up becoming a leader uh in a few years to come, uh, or even next uh election now that the Gen Zs want people who can really be accountable, be you know, uh reduce collab corruption, uh ensure that uh jobs are available, create opportunities. And I think we can do that, Kulchiri. So don't give up.

SPEAKER_06 57:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

You know, you keep telling me you are older, I'm like, come on, man. There are people who are 70, 80, and your father is 87, still maybe feeling young. So there's a lot to be done there. Okay, so your entrepreneurship journey is where now I think things can start getting interested. Yes. Do you get a client to even build a website for?

SPEAKER_05 57:41

We got nothing. So while we are still doing it, people start getting jobs. We are lucky we left campus when the economy was doing well. Uh, I believe by the time we were stepping out or graduating, each and every of my classmates had something to do. Uh back then it would be what you want to do. Yeah like in line with your profession. Yeah, those who didn't went into banking insurance and they still did well.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:11

Uh so what happens? I also, because no business is not giving. And the man has to eat. And the man has to eat. So where I used to do my attachment, I get my first job.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Get thrown into which which place is this? Uh there's a surveyor called Mukeda runs a survey firm called Alliance Land Surveys. So that was my first job. And then when I'm there, you know, guys, you keep in touch, connections here, what's happening. And somebody, one of my very good friends, says, Hey guys, Google is there is a company called Google. Yeah, we had known Google as a such company.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

But yes.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:56

But they are hiring, yeah. They want to hire in Kenya. Yes. Surprise, surprise, they are looking for people with our qualifications.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

And you have a few of you now.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

Yeah. Even now, we are the second, yes. We are the second

Use Cases: Rewards, Resellers, Distribution

SPEAKER_05 59:08

class to graduate.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Yeah. And was it the GIS course? Because also I know another guy known as uh Ben Sabo. I don't know if you have Sabo. Yeah. Was it like uh first GIS course across the country? Yes. Because also Ben is from J Quad.

SPEAKER_05 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:25

So yeah, well, J Quart was the first one giving GIS under geomatics.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

So this one was like, come on, maybe you are like five of you, but from the same class who applied for.

SPEAKER_05 59:34

No, I think the entire class plus the guys who had even no, now the guys who had graduated before as the first class, I think they had already got places settled where they are. And uh so those of us who are now looking, we start doing these Google interviews. And uh I also actually didn't know how big Google is.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah. Until you go there.

SPEAKER_05 59:56

No, until I met uh college mate. And he's like, Oh, how are you? We are meeting in town. Oh, how are you? I'm fine, thank you. So, what's up? We are working here and there, but uh, I'm doing this interview at Google, and then she says, 'Wow, you know, Google is big.' I'm like, 'What do you mean it's big?' They've just bought YouTube for a billion dollars. Like, okay, and then I land there, and uh, yeah, it's big, it's big, yeah, it's big.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

And by the way, you're not seeing how big how big Google is because also you worked for Google back in the day. Now they have a new office.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:30

Ah, they are no longer a short-term place.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

No, no, no. They they they are now. I don't know if I'm supposed to disclose it, but since we'll release this later on in the year or maybe the next year, if you don't have to, I know they're big on NDAs and whatnot, so don't so they this uh building where we also we have uh an office, uh okay. You know where we have an office beside the headquarters, yes. Uh, and they have really gone where to like standardize the design and the feel and everything. And it has been happening for almost a year now. You can imagine the work that has gone there. Okay, one day I met them in the lift, uh trying to take the fridge there, and the fridge could not fit.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:14

So, what did they do? They had to like dismantle it with the from the outside.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Man, you can't do that. It's it was quite huge, it was quite quite huge. So they are really going big. Now they they are more focusing on engineering. On engineering, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

That's nice because when we were joining, it was big. Yeah, it was big, it was different. It was I remember the nation coming just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

Did they have where they say you can't go five steps without food?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:44

Oh, yeah, oh yeah, it was there, and we added weight, I can assure you that we added weight, yeah, yeah, and it's good food, good food, yeah, fresh, good food, fresh, yeah, really broad.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

So you join them, you join Google. I joined Google. So, what do you guys do when you join Google?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:01

So, when uh when we joined Google, uh we were reporting to the Indian, especially where I was working as GIS guys, we are called GIS consultants then. Uh, we were working under India, and that was developing Google Maps in Africa. Uh, up to date, I tell guys I I actually knew some towns from the aerial view, even before landing there. If you dropped me in Enugu, Nigeria, I'll tell you if you put me on this road, the stadium is on this side, this is on this side. Uh some

Data Today & Tomorrow: Telco Dynamics

SPEAKER_05 1:02:40

cities were quite intensive, like Nairobi. Yeah. So I remember mapping the entire of Eastlands uh take because also of the structures and and the chaos that people deal with. No, but it was basically mostly it was roads and some points of interest, interesting ones. Okay, so yeah, that's what we did. Yeah, uh mapping the entire of Africa. So when we were using Google Maps, uh the work that went in there was a team of was a team of like, were we nine? Oh and uh our time is in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Yeah, did you guys like travel around Africa or just connected with the satellite and at a certain at a certain point we started traveling?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:20

Yeah, but when now Google was setting up these other offices and yeah, like Nigeria and whatnot. So a few colleagues traveled actually. Yeah, uh then I joined uh Google uh.org slightly.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:36

Uh because you know now this we started when in 2007, 8-9. This is when the what do we call it? The Great Recession, not depression, was happening. Yeah, and I remember a line there that says scarcity brings clarity. You know, Google in Kenya was started because the boss asked, What are we doing in Africa?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Yeah, I hear that story a lot. And they wanted to set up in Nigeria actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:02

Yes, because uh his dad had been in Nigeria, grew up in Nigeria, they had actually considered South Africa, yeah. And here is Kenya doing well in 2003 for like this is the stable economy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Yeah, let's do it here. They have never looked back, which is a good thing, yeah. Stable economies. And now they're increasing the the the reach and the presence. Yeah, which I hear now they are redeveloping uh Android for with the with the with the African in mind, which is quite interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:33

What does that mean? You know, I've been out of touch with this thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

It's it's really interesting uh when you think about some of these uh software at scale. Uh huh. Most of them are developed by other people. And you see, even when you are a software engineer, the creativity you put into is because of your experiences. Yes, yes. Rarely will you find lead engineers are Africans, or even if they're Africans, maybe they are stand for educated, you know, maybe they're located when they are young and so on and so forth. And a lot of Indians and Chinese doing it. But for the longest you see, also Africa, you cannot ignore 1.6 billion people who are really 70% are really young. Yes. And the economies are growing left, right, and center. So one of the key uh ideology around this is like what happens if these guys find this useless.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Because remember also we have so many language dialects across Africa over 2000.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:26

Okay, now it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

So Ili is big after English, but you never find that in Android well supported. So most of these big tech, Mozilla, Google, uh, you know, Apple are now starting to take this seriously.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:39

And that's quite the natural way to go because they are they are they are the first companies to actually start making things quite personal.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

The advertisement you see, the work.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:48

So yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

Uh so there's that. That's why they're happening in Africa is developed by people who understand and know it better. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:56

Oh, yeah, yeah, nice movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

So uh the I think those that's why they hired Jack Ngari as a CTO uh to just lead some of those initiatives. Awesome, and there are so many other positions that are coming up to really address some of that, and it's a good thing, actually. So um I it's good to see this in my lifetime, oh yeah, where Africa takes a center stage. And I think even uh I feel like uh a lot of things might change even the way we approach

Students, Developers, and New APIs

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

humanity because Africa culture is human first, anything else later. Later, yeah, and that brings a lot of kindness. You've hit it. Human first, everything else. Because if there is no human, the nature doesn't make sense. Yep. But if you address the human uh issues, even what you're saying, climate change, um uh corruption, all those things that actually make people mental state mental mental health.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:50

They read for the Gen Z the biggest issues are climate change and mental health.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Yes, because because they're ignored. And you see, when you ignored, sometimes people don't listen. And if people don't listen, they don't really address your problems. Yeah. So all that is really, really amazing. And and I think more companies start to really prioritize some of these things, even in their solutions, in how they treat the employees, how they interact with the community around them. And you'll find some of the subtle uh problems that we have in our societies get addressed over time.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

So I okay, that's a detour. I just thought we should address it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:28

So let's summarize Google. What did I learn from Google? Uh two things I learned from Google. Uh one in the digital age, your I wouldn't want to say it your competitor, but yes, if you're in business, it will be your competitor. Your competitor is not what conventionally used to be. Okay. Let's say you're selling chicken, your competitor might not be the guy selling chicken as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:00

You see how Google transformed the advertisement industry. Yahoo's took a hit, but who are the other people who actually got the hit most? The media, the traditional media houses.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:16

Because uh people moved from advertising there to Google. Yes. So they just disrupted that industry completely. And I remember during those days we would hold meetings with uh the major media houses. In hindsight, one of them told me those were our golden years. We could not start looking at uh Google can disrupt or they're just another tech company. Yes, yes, it's just another tech company. And who are they?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:47

The bubble, it's called what the.com bubble come again.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

Yes, yes. Yeah, uh, the other thing is uh so you know, yes, companies are there doing CSR and whatnot, but one day we were asked in the office what do we do to get our products out there? Gmail, whatnot, the suits now. And uh at this point, my boss was uh he was even when I left, uh Joe Musheru. And I remember uh they just asked for ideas, and I remember saying uh, you know, right now people are on Yahoo and whatnot. Yeah, it would be a good idea if we went to the universities and started introducing these things to the students. To the students.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:37

Now it's those things you write down as your ideas and you forget. But actually, that's maybe it rhymed with something else somebody out there had thought about. Yeah. But that's what Google actually did. We didn't, yes, we didn't start going to farms and companies and start telling them, hey, here is G suit, you know, it's this good. They started going to the university students, I think even at some point to secondary schools and just introducing the Gmails and the whatnot. That's just a four-year investment. Because after that, these guys are the ones coming into the

Leadership, Alumni, and Paying It Forward

SPEAKER_05 1:10:10

job market. And they are like, we use Google. What do you mean? You are familiar with this. Yes, we are familiar with this.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

And uh, before I know it, everybody is on G Suit and do you know how long that takes? Two to five years to disrupt that entirely because uh and I think also still people don't get it, to be honest. What how important it is to introduce these things to the university. And one, the learning curve is not that steep. Two, they have nothing to lose at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:42

I think the only other people who get this and understand it are the intelligence services like CIA. They go to a country and start teaching them what an AK is.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:54

By the time you are 18, 19, you are a customer. You have read that one, but that one aside, yeah. So, yeah, those are the two main things I learned while I was at Google. It's no longer symmetrical, it's a symmetry. Yeah, and then it was affirmed when I heard Michael Joseph say, my biggest competitor right now is not ATL. It is EABL. Reason being, I'm selling credit at 100 bob, and beer is probably a hundred bob. So a guy is thinking, do I have a beer or should I because beer goes every day? So you see, so how you're competing for that a hundred bob from that guy's pocket. Yeah, it's not yes, yeah, it's not your traditional rival, somebody else wants that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

No one actually thinks should I buy air tell airtime? What if they have Safari Com line or sell television?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:55

So he was actually saying, These guys are not giving me sleepless nights. My sleepless night is now. How do I make sure somebody says before my beer? I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

And I see how they disrupted that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:05

Yes, I buy airtime fast.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:08

So you see, yeah, and then of course, changes come. Uh, you know, you're there and you're feeling like, okay, so what next? How long were we with these guys? I think uh two, two, three years. Okay. Thereabout. Then you get a bit uneasy. Uh, I came to realize in late later on that I work better in sort of startup uh atmospheres. So I start my own company uh because I just wanted to map. I've seen how maps, satellite, APIs are working, and I'm like, this is the way to go. Yeah, I get a few gigs. My supervisor at Google, uh, a Dutch gentleman called Mark, also liquids Google and starts a company called Upande Limited. Uh so the natural thing is to join him.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:03

And I joined him and we worked in Upande for almost uh I worked there for almost nine years. And I pride us for being the very first ones to bring in a drone and a fixed uh drone, the coffee swing into the country. Sadly, not to help us here, but uh it was for a project in Nigeria. Uh you know, we brought these things, and I say there is somebody who works for one of the media houses, I think it was Nation.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:39

Stupidly flew a drone in front of the commander-in-chief and the chief of staff during one of these functions. So this is recorded the event or yes, yes, and just stupid show off. I see it was Kibaki then. Yeah, may he rest in peace.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

They are looking at this thing and they are like, Someone wants to shoot to assassinate the president.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

What the heck is this up here? Yeah, I remember watching those videos. Yeah, and after that, it became totally impossible to do anything with drones ever again. Yeah, you see, technology comes to disrupt. Back then, if you wanted to map an area, you'll need a plane. Yes, you'll need a pilot. And you know those guys are not cheap.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

It's quite expensive, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:25

Yeah, and you'll need all these regulatory blah blahs that come with and even for movie entertainment, yes, you need those creams or whatnot. Here comes a toy that can fly for an hour and giving you good resolution imagery at what price? Maybe 200,000. 500,000 shillings then because yeah, for our professional work, you need the fixed wing. Okay, yeah. And all of a sudden, because somebody did that, you know, people now start asking what the heck is going on. Yeah, so regulators, the law is always when it comes to technology. Yeah,

Culture, Proverb, and Closing CTA

SPEAKER_05 1:15:05

so the best they can do is just halt it. Yeah, like uh gun to it. Do you want to be flying drones? You need a pilot to do it, yeah, you need to give us the flight path. Like, goodness, yeah. This thing is so simple. Yeah, even a kid can fly this thing. Yeah, in fact, you program it when it's down, yeah. So, yeah, and then uh also there is the first time we started doing uh digital mobile collection. It has never been documented, but we were the first. The problem mobile collection. Did you ever see how they used to do surveys back then? Oh, okay.

unknown 1:15:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:44

What was this company called that used to conduct uh tomoves before it became Cinovit and whatnot? There used to be a name. They were the first ones, even they're also breaking ground doing uh surveys and telling us this is how Kenyans are blah, blah, blah. Yeah. You'll get a paper, fill it in, and fill it in and whatnot. Yeah. Uh we discovered there are tools you can use, and you all you needed was a mobile phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

Yeah. I mean, I remember making a lot of money through airtime in uh campus.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Yeah, to tens of thousands. What were you doing? So we found this link, and you know how campus is the past of Nairobi. So we are always trying to ask something or to break through and become these nuds who know things that others don't know. Yes. And then it's shared around a group email that we have, and um we check it out and it works. So if you fill in this survey, you get some uh like 500 or 1,000 or 200 or 100. Oh, okay. So when there's no class, or maybe the lecturer has postponed the class, you go to the link. You make like 2000. Oh, so what you do because you don't need that much airtime, you'll call your relatives or friends and whatever and tell them, I will sell you this airtime at a discount. So send me the cash through Empesa, I send you the airtime. So you still have cash. And I remember we made a lot of money before these guys realized there was an error on this link. I can't remember what it is. But there was uh a lot, you know. So you guys were filling in my man, we made a lot of money for that semester. I don't think I struggled eating in the uh special food cafeteria.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:28

It's called a stress test for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

I left the popers on the other side, I was always on this other side where you're served with the lecturers, with the lecturers, oh yeah. Uh yeah, so I remember those those days, and and that's those are the days when idios was uh with new.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:44

Yeah, I was coming into now idios. So when we float this idea, that why do you want to use papers to synovate? It had a name then before sinnovate. Yeah, they changed it. I'll check it as you speak, yeah. So we sell them this idea collect data using mobile phones. It's easier, it's better. What are our problems in the entry problems? One of the biggest was, of course, internet, but then uh techies think fast. So that thing could be put on the phone and you can collect data offline. So that's solved. Yeah, but now our problem comes in the cost of the phones. You know, printing paper was cheaper. So you tell guys he has a thousand people out there. This is uh the 2010s 11s. The price of a phone, a smartphone, was way too high. So when you start telling them a phone would cost you 20,000 to do this, they are like, uh-uh. Let us continue the way we have been doing it. But then what happens? The famous idios comes into the market.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:53

Yeah, the first Android phone in Kenya. Yes, and the price is almost half. Yes, targeting who? Student, university students.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:04

Yes, yes, and we are in business, yeah, just because of that change, yeah, and we are already into business because now guys are like, oh, the phone, of course, it's not for communication and too much uh for us, it's for data collection. So we have moved from talking 30,000 for our phone to around 10, then 7 because you know the price really dropped fast. Yeah, and uh data collection for a period became our bread and butter because we had hacked that. And before you know it, you know, Kenyans are quite good at cutting up. Yeah, everybody is doing uh mobile data collection, yeah. The same way everybody became a GIS expert after it caught up. Yeah, so as upande, we start pivoting uh into uh this thing. You know, the first time I heard the word, I was like, this is interesting, it's even funny. The internet of things. Like, what do you mean the internet of things? Yeah, and maybe, maybe, maybe my brain was then warped because it's the same time I heard the song, These Are the Things. Ah, like who the heck is Kamba King of Bengals? Yes, yes. Who the heck names something the Internet of Things? But then it's still in line with uh GIS. Yeah, I I I did not explain GIS. Geoinformation system is the collection, cleaning, and uh dissemination of data. Okay, yeah. How do you collect this data? You can collect it through remote satellites, yeah, you can send people on the ground, yeah, or you can have devices there collecting the data. What is IoT? IoT is devices talking to the internet to inform you about something. So it's like we have left remote sensing, it's like we have left mobile data collection. Uh, because this is one of the major things we used to find when we are doing data collection. Data is only as good as its current. Yes. So you find a client, the uniseps of this world, mapping water points. So the guy goes there today, collects data via mobile, and says, This pump is working or this well is working. How about tomorrow? How do you know it's still working? How many volumes, liters of water is it producing?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:23

The best thing is to have a sensor down there that says, today 10 liters. Yes, tomorrow, uh, about 20 liters. The depth of the well, the water is at this much, you know, and that is current data. So we started looking into the internet of things, and we went into water and uh agriculture. Okay, yeah, yeah. Because mobile phones have also caught up, you know, internet is no longer a thing. You know, when I started browsing in this country, internet was 10 shillings per minute. And uh by the time I was in campus, oh yeah, and it used to take like two minutes just to open a Yahoo page. And uh by the time I was joining Campus, I remember my friend telling me a place in town that cost 50 cents, and everybody knew that place.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Yeah, was it a cyber or uh yeah, a cyber now, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:18

Businesses that came and went just because of changes in technology. Yeah, so yeah, uh you're a farmer, and I was actually affected. You know, you're always farming. No Nairobian has one job. You're either doing your job and you're farming at home or selling too much. So I was farming. There's always a side hassle. There's always a side hassle with the Kenyan. Yeah. So I was farming at home, and uh, of course, I have somebody there monitoring. But you see how sometimes we speak, it's a culture thing. Guy just doesn't tell you if you do not uh buy uh DEP by tomorrow, these crops will be done. Because it had it's a place that had flooded. So when I call the guy's like, ah, you know, you need to. So if you get money, so the message I get is if I get things are not bad. But when my dad actually goes there, he's like, don't even bother. This maze is already spoiled, it's too much. Then I tell myself, you know, if I if I had uh an app and the sensors on the ground, they would have already told me your soil is turning acidic. Just buy the right fertilizer and put it there to complement the finish the acidity. If I had uh infrared camera, it would have told me these things are yellowy. I don't even need, you know, the soil moisture as well. So yeah, at Upande we had pivoted into agriculture and water. Well, the problem was water is also a bit different. Yeah, uh there's something called non-revenue water. Most of the water companies lose in Kenya, lose up to 60%, some even up to 80% of their water.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

That is through wastage.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:12

There's commercial and non-commercial waste.

unknown 1:24:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:16

The commercial one is where you are under build or you're not build, yeah, and then there are the physical losses where there's a leakage between pipe, this pipe here and this junction.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:28

Uh is either a leak or somebody's siphoning. So if you're a water company and you produced X, yes, and uh the price of water, the cost of water is M times X, you know you're supposed to collect this much. Yes. So if there is a leakage somewhere, you'll be able to tell we produced X, we expected this, we are collecting this. So where are we doing? Where are we getting losses? Is it from the billing side, commercial side, or is it that water is yeah? So with a few development partners, we worked on these ideas, and then I I I I also got my lessons there. Yeah, that uh chaos has some order.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Chaos has some especially in water, water in Nairobi is is a big business, but also uh it's an interesting cartel business. Yes, yeah, they it's not that you don't have enough water in Nairobi. That's one thing I realized. It's just that it's controlled so that to create demand of salt and ensure that business.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:30

I didn't talk about Nairobi, but I just knew chaos, there's there's some order. And if you see some chaos somewhere, as somebody told me, there's somebody benefiting from that chaos.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:40

That is the order, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:41

So these these these losses, yeah. You know, you would go somewhere and pitch and tell them this and that, but then uh guys don't are not so keen on this solution, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:54

My friend, solution works, but uh the implementation is not there, yes, yeah, yes, and that's how you it didn't make it.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:02

Yeah, that's how uh it was never picked. Yeah, it it brings some transparency, which is not good for business, which is not good for business, it's good for business, but not some other kind of business. So guys will listen to you, they'll laugh with you, they like it, and then they'll keep liking it for two years, three years, and you need it to go to market in three months, yes, yes, yeah. So, yeah, then I realized.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:28

So, did you try petroleum pipeline?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:31

No, those ones to be very honest, because you know of the sensitivity of the product, how those ones they have developed their own they come as long as and then those ones you see the companies that are doing them want to be in business continuously, they're not making money so they're very serious about implementing them. But we would think maybe we do it for petroleum. You land at the petroleum industry and they are like, we have that, yeah, we have that, yeah, we do that, and you don't want external uh interference, yeah. Um and and some of these companies are actually doing it as an add-on value, not that they will charge you for it because competition is so high, the beauty of such competition. Yeah, so yeah, uh, water and uh agriculture made sense. Uh the other problem with uh water is just the cost of entry, the smart water meters are expensive and the likes. Yeah, so yeah, I think that's why it hasn't uh hit pretty much. Okay. So as I was transitioning from uh Upande, uh I had a passion for IoT. So and then I just see uh Africa's Talking is making headlines, whatnot. And then they are saying they they want to do some IoT stuff, the labs. So I call Gikandi and I tell him.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

Used to be connected to Gikandi from back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:54

I'll get there. So uh Gikandi and I go back to 1997. When he joined the I report to the school uh at lunchtime, I reported early, finished my registration, and then at lunchtime, you know, some people have to come show you where your dom is. So they come, carry my box, and then there is this lanky light kid who seems very excited, carrying my hockey stick and bucket, I think. And he's just happy and whatnot. Takes me to my dom, turns out to be Samuel Gikandi. So I knew Gikandi. So he was informed two and informed one. Yeah, he was informed two and informed one. And for the life of me, yeah, uh I never knew I'll meet Gikandi again. Yeah, I played hockey with him, uh, and you know, as form ones, you don't like your form twos that much because they are the one who continue through the dryers, yeah. But Gikandi never used to be that type. Gikandi just used a different kind of funny and naughty, funny, very funny. You'll come up, yes, and you'll come up with the most outrageous, funniest stories that would land us in trouble because you want to sleep. Lights out used to be at 9:30. This guy is giving you stories in the dark, you're laughing so loudly. The defects are picking it up, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

And he has stories for days.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:26

Oh, yes, and he has stories for and you can actually tell he's making this story up as well as you go. This brain is working wonders. So, yeah, I call Gikandi and he says, Oh, by the way, we are starting an IoT lab. Come over, come over, we talk. Come over, we talk. And that's how I landed at Africa's talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:43

Nice. This year, which year is this 2019, 2019. Yes, just before COVID. Just before COVID. How was that experience? Lessons in and I think also they had raised funds uh the previous year.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:55

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so that's why even the lab was being set up, yeah, it was picking up by the Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:00

It was a still a brilliant idea. I think it could have been done better, but yeah, there are a couple of also successes there still in the business.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:09

Yeah. Oh yeah. My IoT side hustle is still working. I got some time here to build it. Yes, it's a successes. Just to name a few. If there are successes, uh, it should be part of that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

Side hustle. Yeah. We'll try and do some of those co-founders here to tell us.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:33

We are counting uh Airtel, Siginon, NAS in Uganda as clients. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

Very nice. So you you come in to AT, you find Gikandi, and as always, Gandhi is like, please.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:49

Yes. Do whatever. Do you do it?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:52

Go for the swing for the fences. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:55

And we do that, and of course, COVID comes and disrupts things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:00

You can't see each other for almost a year plus.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:03

Now there is something that happens there that I don't have the full picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:09

But in their own wisdom, they decide, Luchiri. You come, because you see you are in IoT. You're not the tech guy. You're more the commercial guy. Come do airtime and data.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

That is now still 2019 or 2022?

SPEAKER_05 1:31:25

No, it was it was uh when was it? Probably 2022 or something. Okay. Like, yeah, uh airtime data, it's still commercial. Yeah. So I moved from IoT into commercial and growth. Yeah. And uh lucky me, I'd seen a few engineers become bankers. So I told myself, uh, why not? Yeah. Uh as long as it's new, yeah. I told you before, yeah. For me, startup is things make more sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:57

And that's how I end up uh being commercial and growth. Airtime and data.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:02

So how did you uh develop and commercialize data and airtime? So I have to give credit to the people who started it, you know, nascent, nothing, whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:15

Yeah. Who started it?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:17

Uh I I forget the lady's name, but uh Ruth was still part of the group as customer relations. Uh I forget the lady's name.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:26

Mwema or no. I'll I'll let you know. They left the company though.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:31

Yeah, they left. Okay. So I join in and we are in COVID times, and uh if there's something I'd learned from my own side hassle, yeah, you know, that's not the time to start saying, Oh, the world is coming down. That's actually the time to plant a couple. That's the time to plant a seed, yeah, and uh just let it there. Yeah, because that's the period when for the IoT side of things, uh I marketed and did sales like nobody's business. Yeah, and uh true to form, when things improved, you know, when you're doing marketing and sales, yes, when things improve, guys are like, oh, this guy was here. Yes, and you have also taken the time to go through iterations on what works, how to sell. Do you know at a certain point? Uh I I I I I just told the team, we are plumbers. Forget this whole smart blah blah blah nonsense. Let's just say we are plumbers selling a very advanced meter. Yeah. Or yeah, this is just a simple temp humidity sensor, and this is what it does. Yeah. Simplify it. Simplify. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:43

Simplify the language, make it make sense to the common person.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:48

So on the data and airtime side, uh, it all became about uh making the operations much easier and smooth, especially for the clients.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:01

Because I'd already learned that word of mouth works better.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:05

And sometimes for people to make a decision, it's about how they are treated. Because that's how I also, you know, before I was 80, I was a consumer of 80 products.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:16

Okay. And uh is SMS USSD or SMS. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:22

And I used to give Mary Claire hell. Why aren't my SMSs going? What's wrong? Sometimes the problems will be on my side. You do, yes, I know how to take people through hell. So I wouldn't want anybody doing that for me. So one of the things was actually just making sure that uh the operational side of things are working, uh, systems are working, systems are efficient, clients are well taken care of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:53

And that made a ton of difference. I didn't know what I uh I was picking up, uh, but uh when we joined, we were doing what was it, 300 USD per month. We are currently a team of team of. Then there was we were around five or four.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:13

So the product was pretty new then. It was pretty new, it was pretty young. And just only in Kenya or Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:21

It was almost everywhere, but majorly 90% of it was in Kenya. Yeah. Okay. Uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:28

And even the rest of the team was still in Kenya?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:30

Yes, okay. Yes, the rest of the team was still in Kenya. Yeah. So at some point, some of the changes we were trying to implement or implementing is you know, uh, especially in these hubs, big hubs, big brother rivalry or whatever they call it, something contest. Yeah, the Nigerians, the South Africans, yeah, the Egyptians, the Kenyans, yeah, you just don't show up in their door and say, I want to run a business. I used to insist that the Nigerian team handle the Nigerians, the product, the Rwandan team handles the clients. You know, it's never nice that I'm calling about my product in Kenya and uh somebody in Nigeria is answering. I'm like, isn't there a Kenyan who can do this?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's that.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:22

There is that we cannot run away from it.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:24

Yeah, and that's Africa actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:26

Yeah, if you think about that. I know there are some countries who will say, Oh, yeah, I was talking to a Kenyan, it's nice. But when we go to the major, yes, to the major hubs, they'll be like, I want to speak Arabic.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:38

Is there an online if you don't speak a little bit of sharing? Yes, people will be like, Come on, you sound foreign.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:44

Yeah, you sound foreign. Why why why why why am I dealing with a Nigerian?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it's so were you able to really structure that really nicely?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:53

And uh, and uh yeah, I think 2022 was like uh one of those years when we picked we picked pretty well 60 percent growth just from that, yeah, making sure operations are and I know there's someone who has had airtime and data today for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:12

Yes, please indulge us what is that data?

SPEAKER_05 1:37:15

Oh yeah, so we are actually reselling, we are what we call the PRSP. We are reselling airtime, not not data, we are reselling airtime in bulk at a discount. Yes, you know, if you directly bought airtime at a hundred shillings, that's what you get. But for those who buy from us in bulk, we give them a discount. It's like any other business. We buy in bulk from Safari Com or AirTel or telco. Or any telco. Or any telco, they give us a discount, we pass the same to our clients.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:53

Yeah, but there's also a catch for the developers. So there's those who will come, they still want to buy in bulk, but now they will build a solution around it to also resell or even distribute it at scale. And you have seen a couple of those which have also amplified that initiative of say reselling. Yes, yes. Would you like to talk a bit about that?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:16

Our clients are actually resellers and uh the NGOs who are distributing either for special work or corporates, even. Yeah, but yeah, we have seen guys who come to us, uh add some value by building or tapping on our API, and they become resellers, and some of them have grown us so much as to become suppliers again.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:39

Yeah, yeah. So it's gone it has gone full circle. It goes full circle, yeah. Yeah, and what are notable uh you know changes that this solution has brought in Africa through Africa stocking? Because I believe there are people who always went to telco to buy airtime, the organization actually even didn't know where to buy this airtime.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:00

Uh the beauty about it, and with our API is the ease of how to get it. And then uh, yeah, just the ease is one of it. Because uh I I might not talk too much about the resellers, because I know for that one it's purely business. Yes, and if I give you a discount, it makes sense. I'll also want to buy something at a discount, especially in these tough economic times. For the other clients, it's more about the convenience. You have a thousand people out there. How do you get them their data in good time or air time? So the APIs have really helped a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even have to think about it. Uh you you you just deposit your cash and you start consuming almost immediately.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:56

And for our APIs, it can work anywhere in Africa. So if you're running a and beyond. Yes, and beyond.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:03

So if you're running a global company distributing or selling airtime, then it just becomes easier. Uh deposit and then talk to us. If you want to go cross across countries, of course, we need to talk about the denomination to use here. But yeah, that's what you do. Deposit your cash and start consuming. Which it might sound simple, but to make it simple took quite a few brains, and it solves quite a very big problem. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:34

Yeah, a headache. Let me say a very big headache. Yes. Yeah. And some of the use cases are quite interesting. Uh, you know, did you have some of these whereby even people use their time as currency gifts?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:46

Uh, yeah, of course. Uh currency gifts, rewards, uh data as well, uh, though we're not reselling, you know. Uh you've bought fuel, you get your data instantly, which is a better if you asked me. Uh sometimes you know, you go somewhere and you're told register for hour and then collect. Yeah, I don't want too much. Yeah, just give your number and get I've fueled, give me my data of airtime, and that's it. Yeah, that's good enough. Yeah, and I'll always fuel there. This thing of telling me, oh, uh, register, become a member, you are now a CG gold war.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:26

You've entered to a cell.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:27

Yes, you have now collected two points.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:29

Nah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:32

We are Gen Z ish microwave.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:34

Buy get data, get airtime, yeah. An instance.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

So and uh this airtime and data has grown, uh I I cannot even call it a thousand folds since you guys, you know, uh, you know, break broke it two or three years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:53

And it has also scaled really well. Uh, what are the plans for then, you know, maybe next next few?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:00

So at my level, I'm looking at two things. Yeah. Uh the trend going forward and the new markets. Uh there are markets that are mature. Let's look at South Africa. Yes. South Africa is mature.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:16

Uh, we are not there bigly. But if we wanted to grow there, what do we do? Yes. Uh, Nigeria, the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:26

200 million people. Yes. Yeah. How do we get there? Yeah. Uh, not that we are not there. We are there, but it can just be as big as as as Kenya is. Kenya, what is the trend for this product two, three years down the line? You need to look at that. And uh, you see where you are and how you're going to sustain your growth going forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:53

Yeah. Yeah. Especially the data, because also people are buying airtime for buying data, not to like call the traditional way. Yes. Even the the disruption of WhatsApp, Telegram, uh, Facebook Messenger. So now meet.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:09

So that's actually what I'm saying. I'm looking at it because we know the trends from past and where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:17

We know the players and what is happening. So that's why I'm saying in countries like Kenya, you need to look two, three years, where is this thing going? And uh, where are your opportunities in other countries and what you need to do to grow them? So, as you've mentioned, actually, data is gonna be big. I think the telcos are still scheming the cream. Uh, but just like airtime, they'll they'll have to open it up also.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, Africa Stocking is run for developer community. Yes. Um, and uh, you know, student is a big uh proponent or key players it is. Student will always be uh for data and airtime. Is there is is there notable things that you have done to address and and and even onboard some of these?

SPEAKER_05 1:44:13

Uh yes, we have tried through you, as you know the story. Uh it's something that we'll keep pushing.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:21

Uh if I went into it, I think I'll either be disrupting uh the matter. Not the status quo, it's not about the status quo. It's either telling too much when it's too early or telling what's not supposed to on a podcast. Yeah, but yeah, uh, you know, when we are starting this and we talked about how to target uh uh students or the younger people earlier, yeah, how to look at the market and just be careful. You you you're always aware of who your next competitor is, absolutely or how to get to that market, and you know the things we have discussed about aimed at doing that. So continue with the hackathons on airtime and data. Uh slowly, yeah, something will crack.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:10

Absolutely. I mean, um the market is you know, and and this is something actually that is very uh interesting with the in the modern world. Market is enough for everyone, actually, more than everyone.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:21

As somebody told me these they are saying that uh true, true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:30

So um, and of course, we'll continue with the initiatives, uh, you know, in terms of uh data and airtime amongst other products. Yes, and uh for those listening to this, there are a couple of uh other APIs coming up which will actually complement and uh leverage on data and airtime. Yeah, um yeah, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:53

Uh I should try our airtime. We are also growing quite big on data. Yes. Uh probably soon we might uh start reselling data.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:04

Yeah, uh that'll be a game changer. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:06

We've we have we've we've been doing it, we've been trying it. Special arrangements, but uh we needed to yes, open it up and we are pushing where we are.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

I'll be your first customer, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:17

We are pushing where we are. Yeah uh I'm pretty sure. So for the developers out there, watch out for it because I'm sure Gen Z's are probably spending more on and you saw what happened uh with this occupied thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:30

Yes, people could not access some of the networks, yes. Um, yeah, I mean the problem here or the challenge has it been the telcos and how they package data, or is it uh let me let me put the blame quite squarely on them.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:46

Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, I guess they're not innovating fast. No, they they know their business. Okay and uh this was their next cash cow, so they needed to scheme it and guard it. That's that's my thought. Yeah, scheme it properly until yeah, they feel like uh we can make money now in other ways. So it has been hard to we we we we are currently doing data but not for resale. Uh you airtime we are allowed to resell it. Data is the end consumer should not pay. So if you're corporate or doing gifts and rewards, and you want to give your clients, customers, employees uh data as a reward gift, then we can still talk, but not for resale.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:33

Not for resale, yeah. Yeah, so man, I know you are family man. Uh what advice do you have for family men?

SPEAKER_05 1:47:40

Advice for family men family comes first. Yes, yeah, everything else, everything else is and there is no better feeling than just uh having those little ones running around and uh family home and all that, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:58

So I I I know earlier on I mentioned about uh affiliation uh or relation with uh affluent uh Kenyans.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:10

But but do we say but do you say so?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:13

This chief here is a relative to one jaw and uh I came to know this by accident actually, and you say uh Ben, that's uh one of my relatives, and you said it really easy and I liked it. Um uh any aspirations to also be a politician at some point?

SPEAKER_05 1:48:32

No, I I cannot rule it out because uh, you know, one thing I did after campus politics, yeah, I went to the counselors and told them never again. Never and one counselor, her name was Laibuta, told me these things once they are in you, it's easy what it is. Uh you might bury it, it might go down for a few years, but somewhere down the line, it will still yes, yeah. So I cannot rule it out never, and especially with what is happening right now, actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:05

Yeah, because politics has always been a reserve of the dirty people who are ready, people people who are ready to play dirty, which is which which discourages a lot of honest leaders uh who wanna you know provide some leadership, provide some new thoughts and and innovative way of doing things. So now actually there's there's hope for people who really wanna.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:28

So actually now that you that's now that you mention it and we are going into that direction, yeah. Uh I know for a fact that we have discussed this in our circles, alumni circles. And uh it is almost by design that uh people decided we are not going to go into politics, it's too dirty. And then they are realizing, or rather, we are realizing the dirt is now coming to haunt us out here, so we had better go back in and try to fix it. Yeah and one of my classmates said something that really struck. He said, I was at the village and they said, You guys have refused, so now yes, we are going with whatever. And uh and I think that struck me. Yeah, I was like, oh, guys actually expect some calibre of leadership. Yeah now in 2022 I held uh year met as well during the campaigns, and sad to say this, I noticed one thing human beings are smart enough to know they need a leader. Yeah, all of them cannot lead, they need somebody to take some responsibilities and guidance, yes, but then they're also stupid enough not to know who that person is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:57

But do you give them choices?

SPEAKER_05 1:50:59

You know, also you have to give them they they know we need somebody, you know. I can't be thinking about roads and then water and then you know how committees work. We need somebody smart to do that, yeah. But now that person, yeah, and especially in Kenya, that's where the problem is. That's where the problem is.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:15

But also I want to cut some slack to you know to the people who vote because also I I've I've I've tried to vote all the time that I was eligible to vote. And the reason why I did this is I had a choice to say, you know, do I care? What what much difference will it make? And most of the time I vote in the evening, and maybe I'm the last in the queue.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:36

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:36

And I debate the whole day, should I, should I not? And one thing I've realized that if I don't and something goes wrong, I'll never forgive myself. Given 2007 and you know what has happened in our political scenery.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:49

But also I've realized that the choices I'm always given, they're not the best choices. So, regardless of how I vote, the result, the end result is what I'm trying to avoid.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:03

Maybe we should have a none of the above choice days.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:06

Exactly. Exactly. So it's it's it's it's a wake-up call for some of us who could really offer decent leadership to us because Africa needs a lot of work, and one of those work is in leadership. It's in leadership. Um, and we have the capacity to really build Africa to what we want it to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:23

So it's a wake-up call for some of us who actually have been leaders and they have it, and they're honest about leading, not just greedy interests.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:33

Um, to go out there and have more options. And I heard one thing very powerful from Gen Z during this time they were they were rejecting. That even if it's money, we are ready to contribute this money so that the person we want to represent us and be accountable will be on the ballot.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:54

Because even the way the system is designed, there's a threshold and it's not more money that you need to have. And for you to have these, of course, there will be people contributing with personal greedy interest when you get in.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:08

And you can't just turn around and walk. Because you are an investment to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:13

But to the people, you are the hope, you are the leader in all this. So I think if that really changes, and over time I see it changing because there's no other way. People are hopeless as you speak. People are looking for opportunities, and people just want a better platform to really make it work for them. They don't want to be employed or to be civil servant and so on and so forth. They just want to, you know, where they can do a business and thrive. You see how many entrepreneurship you have started. Even the reason why they need to work is the way systems are set. They are set for you not for them not to work. Um yeah, so there's there's a huge opportunity there for all of us, and not only in Kenya, I think. It's it's almost every other of the 54 countries. And we saw Arab Spring not long ago in Tunisia and Egypt. And that's a call for like, let's do it right. So please, I encourage you uh whenever you are ready. Um, there's also another guest actually where I hosted, I think he's a Gen Z, if I'm not wrong, or maybe a millennial. Yeah, he said in 2027 he's going to Sabahut and you know run for that seat, whatever it takes, because he's tired, like he was a hard boy, but he made it to the university decently. And he believes there are so many people. If the platform is flattened, opportunities are you know distributed, a lot of people actually could create solutions, there would be a decent life, we would alleviate most of the poverty and so on and so forth. Yeah, so by all means, go for it. Now, thank you. I don't know which camera you should look at, uh, that one and uh talk to our audience. You might uh you know uh share your I know you're a wise guy, uh share your wisdom. But before that, there is a question uh I've forgotten. Yes, you know, I know you are uh the alumni chairman and you had uh separate discussion on this. Uh and I like that. I like that at least uh you know you are organized uh and and the couple of initiatives you guys are doing to ensure that you know there is more. You wanna maybe even mention about that, please?

SPEAKER_05 1:55:18

Oh yeah, uh you we are we are alumni uh by the fact of the use of term, yeah, but uh let me take pride. We are the only club. We are an old boys club uh of the Alliance High School. Yes. I am very grateful for the opportunity and the position that I'm serving. Yeah, uh the the the the guys themselves are great. Uh and uh one of the things that we do realize is that we were given a chance, an opportunity. And the beauty when you do that is by paying it forward. Yes. Uh I've given this story. Uh those from the school probably have gotten tired of hearing. Yeah, but maybe other Kenyans need to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:08

Uh I completed high school because some people, old boys, start somewhere and said uh nobody should miss class because of their background. You know, I joined JQAT and they told me where is your school certificate? And I told them I was at the Alliance High School. And if you doubt it, go ask them. If I was in any other school, to be very honest, they would have told me go go go away, bring your certificate.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:44

And I realized I was cashing in on other people's efforts and good work before me.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:54

Now there is probably another MK and Buchiri behind who still needs the same. And yeah, uh a good number of uh alumni live by that mantra, strong to serve. Yes, yeah, so it's the opportunity that was created uh 98 years ago. We're actually going to celebrate our centenary in two years, 2026. And you see, as you have mentioned, we have been pivotal in this country.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:28

On both sides. Stop smiling. It's both ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:32

No, I agree. I'm happy that you said that.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:35

Today we were having a discussion, and I listed a few numbers. These kids have passed me through some tough times these last few weeks. So, yeah, uh, it's just about somebody took a chance, gave a chance, and it's up to us to pay forward. And that's what, as chair, I'm looking forward to from the alumni of the Alliance High School.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:00

And uh let's put it even wider, the alumni of the other schools as well. Yes. Uh definitely no competitors, but uh those who are trying to do the same. Yeah. And as we have just discussed, uh in matters leadership and politics, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:18

So it's just a call.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:21

Let's do right for each other. Yes. Uh humans come first. Yes. Uh profits, whatnot, yes. Uh should not be. And uh MK, I actually discovered it doesn't take much for humans to be happy. I agree. You know, I meet uh people and they are smiling and they are laughing.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:44

But then when you probably just visit where they live, like I I I couldn't live there if it were me. I mean, you still manage to show up under the sun and smile, and and it it really takes very little from us to change lives out there. The little you can do, just do it. Just do it. Yeah. And uh lastly, as you've asked, if there's anything I would like to say out there, uh the best gift you can give to a human being is a chance. So yeah, give a chance to everybody, to anybody out there. Uh that's that's like the mantra I've lived with. And then to those who are being given a chance, grab chances also uh and maximize, and maximize, yeah, take a chance, uh be it on entrepreneurship, uh in life, yeah, uh those who are thinking politics, take a chance, never sit down and uh just wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:54

Yeah, I'm sorry, thank you so much, Elucheri. Happy, and as uh culture here we have started uh Uh it's uh it's now a culture where we conclude with uh an African proverb. And one of those proverbs, and we have borrowed this from uh Spice FM, which is uh one of the biggest talk shows right now, uh at KTN, uh Spice FM. Uh people delving into real issues. And you saw even some of the uh hosts there ask the president serious questions about this country. So I recommend, and I'll be honest about it, we borrowed it from there. So today's proverb comes from Zimbabwean uh culture, and it says, I don't know, I don't know the accent, so I'll just read that as it is.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:53

Yes, sounds more like my mother tongue.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:55

Yeah, it's more bantu. Yes, it's more bantu. So it might sound like Swaili, it might sound like Luya, it might sound like uh Midikenda, it might sound like Meru, it might sound like Kikuyu.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:10

Continue. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:12

A child that does not cry will die in the career. Ah, very true. And this is very powerful. Why wherever you are, and some people might be in different stages of life if you don't really talk to people about what you're going through, you don't go out there and do what you needed to do yesterday. You may never see the change. True. And some of those steps are quite painful that you may not like them at first, but they will deliver the results. So I'll part uh with that and thank our listeners who are listening to us.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:50

That comes from uh, if you remember great uh BBC presenter, Kumla Dumo. I believe that's where I used to see this culture. So even spies picked it from Kumla Dumor and the BBC Africa.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:07

We all learn from someone, right? Yeah, and it's a good thing because also it brings back uh our culture and and traditions that we sometimes we are taught there's a bit uncivilized, a bit not so much of it, but that's where the real wisdom is.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:22

There is wisdom there. Yes, a lot of it. If you ever want me to come and talk about culture and arts one day, by all means, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:31

Have that podcast. By all means, because um part of this podcast, uh, that is Impact Passas podcast and return podcast is telling our own stories. We have we have grown up, me and you listening to everyone else besides us.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:45

Yeah, and Jim to rubbish. Oh, yeah, and a lot of not rubbish, but uh something that does not apply or does not negate what we know. That's why it's rubbish. Okay, not most of it, but don't rubbish other people's because ours has been rubbished.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:04

So I have my reason to call it a bit of uh rubbish because some of those things don't work even in their culture, uh but they want to uh impose it on everyone.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:15

We really need that other point, which is really interesting because he had already officially closed off with a very nice Zimbabwean. Is that Shona Bele?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:23

Uh that is uh Shona Shona language, yes, yes, yes. It looks like there's a better conversation which will be coming here, and uh we'll invite you again, Luchiri. You need those fill-ups now just to talk culture and art. Yes, yes, yes, you can have that. And uh thank you for having me. Thank you so much, Lucieri. And uh uh or to our listeners, please uh check us out on YouTube is Impact Masters Podcast. We're also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHatRadio, Amazon Music, and all podcast platforms across the world. You just search for Impact Masters Podcast or Retold Podcasts, Africa's Talking Retro Podcast, and listen to all other Impact Masters who have been recorded here across from across the world. And we are yet to actually cover it all. Just make sure you subscribe, support, share, comment, and uh make sure that it goes to all the people across the world with only podcast uh delving on tech and innovation across Africa and beyond and showcasing uh all these amazing people. Until next time, uh, this is Michael Kimadi.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:34

And that's a wrap on today's episode of Impact Masters. Thank you for tuning in and sharing this space of growth and empowerment with us. Remember, every step you take has the potential to create an impact. Keep exploring, keep questioning, keep implementing, and most importantly, keep mastering your impact. Remember to check us out on all platforms by searching for Impact Masters. Subscribe, follow, and share. www.impactmasters.io. See you in the next one.