Mining Engineer on Using Data & Vision to Transform Africa | Impact Masters Podcast

A story of motion becomes a blueprint for momentum. From a childhood crisscrossing Botswana and Zimbabwe to rugby fields, rain-soaked pools, and a first blast on a copper pit, Dzikamai Gangaizo learned agility the hard way—and then used it to rewire a very traditional industry with data, discipline, and a continental vision. We sit down to trace how curiosity turned a mine into a learning system, why “good enough” keeps Africa small, and how to build teams across borders that serve people where they live.

We pull back the curtain on the real scale of mining; massive trucks, precise blasts, and the long journey from rock to refined copper—then follow the data trail: sensors, time-series logs, and reports that only matter when people act on them. Dzikamai explains how change management, clean data, and relentless measurement transform safety, maintenance, and cost. From there, we zoom out to the “piping” that actually determines power: policy, trade rails, reliable electricity, internet, finance, and where our data lives. If you don’t own the pipes, you don’t own the future.

This conversation is also a map for emerging builders. We talk distributed African teams in AI and analytics, local payment rails, and why context beats copy-paste. We explore investment over aid, the green economy’s mineral window, and the urgency to add value at home. Along the way: men’s mental health, Ubuntu as operating system, and a bold plan to impact a million lives through community multipliers. The takeaway is clear and practical: design for 2050, not for Friday; put youth at the table; and raise the bar from competent to excellent.

If you believe Africa can own its data, its value chains, and its story; this is your episode. Listen, share with a friend who needs the push, and leave a review so more builders can find us. Then tell us: what’s the next system Africa should own end-to-end?

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening & Show Introduction
• 2:30 Sponsor Message & Host Context
• 9:45 Guest Intro: Zikamai’s Background
• 14:30 First Impressions of Nairobi
• 17:30 Childhood Moves, Curiosity & MS-DOS
• 26:30 Botswana to Zimbabwe: Adapting Through Sport
• 34:50 Discipline in Swimming, Lessons from Rugby
• 43:30 Independence, Boarding School & Community
• 50:20 Academics, Roundedness & Soft Skills
• 59:40 Zimbabwe’s Economic Shock & Sanctions
• 1:09:30 Pan-African Trade, Pipes & Policy
• 1:18:40 Excellence Over “Good Enough”
• 1:28:20 Culture, Voice, and Collective Identity
• 1:38:10 Men’s Mental Health & Community Support
• 1:48:00 Vision, Pedestals, and Owning Narrative
• 1:57:30 UK Reality Check & The Rat Race
• 2:05:20 Francophone Piping & Resource Politics
• 2:14:40 Building Distributed African Tech Teams
• 2:23:10 Infrastructure, Power & Internet Gaps
• 2:31:20 Investment vs Aid, Green Economy Window
• 2:40:30 Mining 101: From Blast to Copper

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to Impact Masters Podcast in collaboration with Africans Talking Retold Podcast, where every conversation sparks new insights. Join us as we delve into the stories of extraordinary individuals who are shaping our world. Movers and shakers in tech, policymakers, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and all those whose stories are worth telling. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and transformed. Welcome, and let's embark on this journey of discovery together. Impact Masters Podcast. You can check us out on all social media platforms. YouTube, X, Facebook, LinkedIn, you name it. You can also find us across all podcast channels. Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music. Simply search for Impact Masters. Then subscribe, follow, and share.io. Here's your host, Michael Kamaffi.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12

Thank you, thank you so much. Welcome once again. It is a beautiful day, the day of the Lord. And today is a beautiful day. Why? Because we have an amazing, amazing guest from the South. I'm gonna be telling you more a bit, uh, our friend. Uh, but before that, this podcast is powered by Africa's Talking. Uh, we provide USSD, uh, SMS, voice, inside chat APIs that are accessible to all developers to build scalable solutions across Africa with a portfolio of around 50,000 developers across Africa as of the time of recording this podcast. And my name again is Michael Kimali. Um I'm just also building a tech ecosystem across Africa besides recording this podcast. And that's one of the main reasons that we are uh you know hosting movers and shakers in tech across Africa. Uh but besides that, it's also powered by Impact Masters Podcast. Uh, we are found in all the podcast channel, including iHeartRadio. You can go there, subscribe, download support, and see other movers and shakers across uh the world. Uh something interesting about um this podcast is uh we have heard it all, but today we have one and only Zikamai Gangaizo, digital transform transformation strategist. And uh this one uh distinguished chief mining uh engineer at arts, and uh he works at First Quantum Miners. Zikamai stands as a paragon of innovation and strategist foresight in the realm of mining engineering. His tenor of over a decade in the industry reflects a profound commitment to excellence and a relentless pursuit of operational optimization. At the helm of optimization, he is a manager who orchestrated transformative initiatives aimed at maximizing productivity and efficiency across all facets of mining operations. As a testament to his expertise and dedication, Zikamai transitioned seamlessly into the role of chief technology officer at UC Buckley in California. Beyond his professional accolades, Zikamai is a sought-after speaker known for his ability to inspire and empower audiences. In essence, Zika Mai is not just a leader, he is a visionary architect of the future, a relentless crusader for innovation, and a beacon of inspiration in the realm of mining engineering and technology leadership. ELFS talking about transformational leadership as a catalyst for inclusive economy, economic empowerment, technology and innovation as a tool for inclusion in the workplace, how to leverage data analytics in your business, digital disruption, embracing digital transformation strategies. So, in case you have anything around this, uh Zikamai could be reached on LinkedIn with the same name, Zikamai Ganga Izo. We'll be posting these names so that you don't get it wrong when you're typing it. He worked internationally in Botswana, USA, UK, Zambia, and South Africa, but originally it's from Zambia. However, a man's story cannot be told without him telling it. Those are just uh details that I've just entered on it. Uh, but uh he is here with us. Uh Zekama Yao Young. I'm great.

SPEAKER_05: 4:58

Thank you very much for having me. Are you good? So today is my first day in Kenya. Oh, in Nairobi. Oh, amazing. Yes. How do you find it? That's what everyone keeps saying. So you're gonna have to ask me after I've had more than one day. You know, in Kenya you just realize it within 30 minutes of arriving. So, what I like is that the energy is right. It's good. It's I'm like, okay, so I can I can really get into this, yeah, into this, into this Nairobi life. So I'm I'm hoping that the people that are taking me around, yeah, they do justice to the to the city.

SPEAKER_02: 5:29

Yeah. Wow. And you have a whole team, you know, behind the cameras. Uh we're taking good care of you, arranging your itinerary. Chief, you said you have over a decade and you don't look that old. So it looks like it's good, but you've got to hear about all of it. Uh, did these guys take you for Namachoma or something? You know, the game pack is in the city.

SPEAKER_05: 5:51

So I've got um a lot of expectation. Right. So there's no pressure on them, but they've promised me the best.

SPEAKER_02: 5:59

And you'll be here for some time, right? Indeed. Oh, nice, nice. Welcome to Kenya, uh, Nairobi specifically. Uh, and all of Africa actually uh it's quite beautiful. I've never been to Zambia, but uh soon uh I feel like I should go to Zambia. Oh, you know somebody there, so yeah, yes, a colleague of mine works there. Me, and now I know you. Okay, thank you. True. Now they are more than two. There might be more than two if I think about it. But at least I know you now. Yeah. And uh there's a colleague who works in Zambia. We are we also present in Zambia. Actually, I should have said that. So we're present in 23 markets as Africa stocking, and our solution works across all 54 Africa Union recognized countries. So anywhere you build, you build at scale. So if you solve a problem in Zambia, you're solving for all other African countries. And I think uh one of the key highlights we'll be talking today with you is how to do that and uh why should we do it. So please, where did uh Zikamai start from? Well, you said that Zambia is where I'm from.

SPEAKER_05: 7:02

Yes, I was born in Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_02: 7:06

In Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_05: 7:07

Yeah. So I'm Zimbabwean by birth. Okay. And at the age of at the age of 18 months, my dad decided, well, I'm gonna go to Botswana and I'm gonna try to buy a car. Okay. So he he he had this idea, this vision, and he took a sleep with an 18-year-old child, and he said, packed up his bags, um, got a job, and he moved across into Botswana. Botswana. Now Botswana's got two million people now. So then maybe it was less. Much, much less. Yes. So it would be a what is then? Then is a long time ago. Okay. You look at the face, it doesn't give it away, but then was a long time ago. It's about about 36 years ago. So um he he moved over and and essentially I did a good uh period of my childhood in Botswana. Okay, but I never stayed in one place more than four months. Uh four years, sorry. Okay. So every four years would move, move to another city, move to another city. And so for me, my journey has been one in which I'd always had to adapt, yeah, learn new people, know get into a new environment. Yeah, and it's all about agility and how well you adapt into different spaces and situations.

SPEAKER_04: 8:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 8:19

And I didn't actually know because you can only I mean that that was my life. So it's not like I chose it, but when I look back at it, I go, I look at myself. Some of the bad things are because of that, but some of the things that are that are good is because of that.

SPEAKER_02: 8:34

Yeah. So what are the bad things? The bad things that you remember.

SPEAKER_05: 8:39

Well, so you never get to keep friends. So for me, it's something that friendships and keeping friendships are something that are hard to do. Yeah. And when you move every four years, you what I end up having was that very I meet people and I'll be in the moment, in the space that I'm in. So the people that I'm with right now are everything. And then when I move, I I also move. And then I'm with those people that I'm with, and it's very hard for me to maintain very long-term friendship. Long term friendship. So that that for me is I would say is a is is a sad thing and also a bad thing. It makes me look like a horrible friend to some of those people with actual manners, but um, but the reality is that I've got I want to impact lives and I want to do it on a scale that is not just one city, one country. Yeah. It's across every single country across Africa.

SPEAKER_02: 9:47

Let me ask you this, Zigmai. Yeah, so you went to primary school in Botswana. Correct. Up to which class?

SPEAKER_05: 9:53

Up to um standard four. Standard four. Yeah. So I would have been about 10 years old.

SPEAKER_02: 10:00

Okay. Then you moved to?

SPEAKER_05: 10:01

Then I moved back to Zimbabwe.

SPEAKER_02: 10:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 10:03

You started from standard four to to uh form four, which would have been IGCSE level. Okay, yeah. Then they do IGCSE. That's right, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 10:12

Okay. And how was that uh class, I don't know, maybe nursery or pre-primary school to class four. How was that experience for you?

SPEAKER_05: 10:20

So obviously being um, I think I was very naughty. So I I I had a neighbor and I recall this quite well. We'd always find something to get up to. But he he he he sometimes took a bit long with his homework. So I would run over, jump the fence, and then I'd go, hey, let me help you there. We finish your homework quickly so that we can get up to no good. And so and so we we we finished his homework. We get and and one particular example was um his um the helper in the house had sort of left, and I don't know where she had gone, but we decided that day we're gonna cook. Okay. And uh it's I mean, I was eight. Eight years, seven, yeah, I was too young to be out of cooking on a pot. Yeah. So we get matches and we start trying to, and it was the gas, it was a gas. Yeah. So we start, and then um we we we it we get surprised, and then we burn a little hole in the in the in the bed, in the bedding, right? Okay, and then um we give it another shot. We say, no, we're gonna get this done. And so yeah, get the fire lighting now. Yeah and with that fire lighting, it was um that now the chance to start cooking. And we wanted to cook what is known as Taza Nishima or um Ugali. Ugali. And so we're like, I've seen this before. We know how to do water, yeah, water boils. When the water's boiled, we put in the flour. Yeah, so we started, right? And we think, yeah, we're on it. But every once in a while you just check so that sorry, we'll just check so that you know there's the coast clear. And the coast was clear, we're doing great. And we started bubbling, and then for whatever creative inspired creative inspiration that came from either one of us, we decided that um just putting the maize flower was gonna be boring. So we added started adding different things into it now. What did you add? So it started with salt, started with a bit of pepper, a bit of spices.

SPEAKER_02: 12:26

You didn't have the tea leaves.

SPEAKER_05: 12:28

No, it got to sand. And and like I said, definitely there had to be some creative inspiration amongst us. We might have discussed, I can't remember the details, but I I do believe that creatively we we were really trying to push the envelope. So we had some sand into there, and then they ceased to become an inzima, as you're calling it. Indeed. And so then um suddenly um the helper comes back and uh in our state of panic, we make a run for it. Because as any criminal does, once you find the situation has turned on you, yeah, you make a run, you go. So we we ran. I I was his neighbor, so we ran next door. And in our in our quest to seek refuge, we we found the most convenient place was next door. Yes. So my father comes back home after work and he beats us properly because what on earth are we doing in somebody else's room, in somebody's house. I I I tried I tried to explain. It didn't really work. But I mean the thing is for me, a lot of the things very curious, yeah, very pushing boundaries and limits. Yeah, and if something doesn't make sense, then well, let's try it out. Let's see what happens. If it breaks, it breaks. If not, then too much. I'll just get beaten for it. That's the worst that can happen. Yeah, so so so some of those experiences younger were all about getting in trouble.

SPEAKER_02: 14:03

Is there a good one on those uh experiences? No, everything's everything.

SPEAKER_05: 14:08

Well, maybe I should say it like this. What I remember well is the fact that the bad things didn't turn out the way that I thought they would. And so I'd get rid of it.

SPEAKER_02: 14:17

You always started doing the good thing. Well, you wanna cook some food here, and then you end up with the cement.

SPEAKER_05: 14:22

It it starts everything like every journey, they start with good intentions, but sometimes it doesn't always end. But now that actually you reminded me, the one thing that actually came into my life at that period was MS DOS. So my I was fortunate enough, my dad managed to get a computer and it was MS DOS. Okay. And I was hooked. Okay. Playing games, and look, you can't do much with MS DOS. You you literally uh forward slash, forward slash directory, you see what you can. And then at the end of the day, um playing games was largely what I what I really got into. Okay. And 2D, so you could either move left or right. And um, but again, like with all my stories, they have a beating at the end of it. So so so so I I I would come and and I know that my my my parents don't necessarily aren't quite as advanced within using this gadget. Yeah, and so I'd be like, I'll do my homework, then I'd be like, yeah, let's go. And then now it is time for bathing and eating. Ah you can switch it off and then I'll stop. Okay, would be my was my response.

SPEAKER_04: 15:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 15:44

I did that once, then I got beaten. Because you switch it off. No, no, no. I was telling my mother, she was like, come and eat, you've been on this thing for too long. I'm like, no, you switch it off first, then I'll come. Because I knew she couldn't switch it off. Uh and so then uh so then I I yeah, so then my father came back and needless to say, yeah, uh, I was informed that I shouldn't do that. Yeah, and it was demonstrated as well that I shouldn't be doing such things properly. You never forget it. No, no, no. You know, and discipline is a key thing to any child's growth, especially one with the cheeky tongue and uh so yes, uh especially in Africa. Especially in Africa in the end.

SPEAKER_02: 16:31

So you moved to Zimbabwe. Yeah. Now you it's like you know, you have to learn maybe a new culture, meet new friends at standard four. How was that transitioning? Did it take away your you know, part of your childhood in Botswana or it was seamless?

SPEAKER_05: 16:51

So for me, I wouldn't say it was seamless. The no matter, I mean, we would have moved four times at that during that period because um we always moved every three years, three to four years. And so by the time we got there, we'd already moved several times. I had already made new friends and lost new and old friends. Yeah, but getting into Zimbabwe, like you said, it's a different world, different environment, different culture. And though I was born in Zimbabwe, I actually had spent all of my life before that period there in Botswana.

SPEAKER_04: 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 17:27

And so when I get now to Zimbabwe, it is learning everything in terms of people, how you deal with people, how you talk to people, the cultures, the what is normal. Yes. And for me, the biggest thing was so what happens usually is that I don't, I'm not very expressive. I don't really talk. When I get into a new space that I'm not necessarily comfortable, I will be quiet. I'll sit back, I'll read the room, I'll understand what's going on. And so that's what I would have done. And then that's what I did. And and you then you pick and you understand uh this guy, this guy, this guy, these guys seem like nice people. Yeah, you'll find me with them. Yeah, and and and that's essentially how I simulate into a space. Yeah, and so within that, one of the major things that then I really started picking up was sport. And sport is a very easy and natural way to meet different people and also to feel like you're part of a group, yeah. And I guess as humans, one of the most natural things is we want to be in a tribe, we want social beings. We're social beings, right? Yeah, and so I sport was became the refuge for me to be able to meet people. Which sport specifically? So anything that required running, and I don't know whether that's because I ran away from parents at previously.

SPEAKER_02: 18:52

Is poverty a sport? I dude, I think that requires a lot of running. Our brothers and sisters are running to Europe droning, others are running to the US. We'll come back too much.

SPEAKER_05: 19:06

We'll come back to that running story. Just remind me when I get to Botswana, okay? You'll go back again. I'll go back. My story is uh yes, it's quite yeah, it's a confused story, yeah. But um, but anyways, I I I really got into sport, and sport was the thing that really helped me transition into this new space, yeah, where I was able to meet different people and different types of people. So, your question was what sport? Yeah, football, cricket, swimming. Wow, uh crazy, yeah, and then track, yeah. Um, and so ironically out of the last one, Czech track, like um athletics.

SPEAKER_02: 19:43

Oh, yes, yes. Did you miss some Kenyans in that quest?

SPEAKER_05: 19:47

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_02: 19:49

You know, everyone thinks they are run until they meet Kenyans.

SPEAKER_05: 19:52

Well, I've I've I've met a few in this room, and I'm not gonna say too much beyond that.

SPEAKER_02: 19:57

By the way, guys, take this gentleman in our uh Kasarani Sports Center because people are preparing for, I don't know, some yeah, and maybe tries to run and then uh age, ages caught up with me. But if you were able to run, you you you did good in sports, sadest uh sports. So so yeah, uh golf. Oh, you did golf? Yes, and you're one of the fun biggest fans of golf in the room. Is it? Yeah, well maybe on the side you love to channel, you know, exchange notes.

SPEAKER_05: 20:28

Well, maybe we play a game of golf and then we show I'll show him how it's done.

SPEAKER_02: 20:33

And when we go to Zambia, that should be one of our key things to do there. Yeah, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 20:38

Yeah, so so so for me, largely any sport that I could get into, I I picked it up and I I run with it. Okay, and that then just meant that my my days were full. And I'd I'd I'd I'd meet different people, and and and the reason why I also did different sports was because you meet different types of people. Yeah, yeah, and so ironically, the biggest sport that I did, or the one that I excelled the most in was and rugby. Was rugby and swimming. That's that's a good combination. So I um I really put a lot of effort into swimming, and and and that's where I learned a lot of discipline as well. So though swimming might look effortlessly for a lot of people, yeah, there's a lot of practice that goes into that. And for me, we would practice in the rain. Yes, and you swimming in the rain or swimming in the rain. Not not swimming, like it would be raining and would be swimming in the swimming pool in the just to clarify.

SPEAKER_02: 21:40

Is that the hardest? That's the hardest sport. Why? No, no.

SPEAKER_05: 21:44

I mean when it's raining, no, it's it's it's um because you're you're training as a group. And so when you're not in the water, you're outside just being rained on. And you're just standing and you're just like and so yeah, so it's it's one of those things where you your mind has to be focused around, I'm here for this. Yeah. And you you really streamline what your focus and attention will be about. And so as you sit in the line waiting, you you're thinking, okay, I just did these two laps, I need to focus on my technique. I wasn't so good like this. And and so, even as though you're in the rain, you really have to focus to just keep your mind focused on what you're doing. Yes. It's very easy to be like, man, I'm just out here, I'm wet as a pillow, and you're not this is this is horrible. But yeah, for me, one of the major things was discipline in the space like that. And and and some of these things, you really, you know, you build upon that muscle of of of discipline. Yeah. And so that was that was an amazing thing for within Z within Zimbabwe. Yeah, uh, within Zimbabwe, but then rugby also became something that was a major part of my life. Yeah, and so within the rugby world, I was a tiny guy, okay, compared to everybody. I'm not I am not a rugby-looking guy. Yes, and I agree 100%. I thought you would say that, no, but you look like you might have the shoulders. No, no, I don't lie.

SPEAKER_02: 23:12

So you yes. I'm like, yes, I'm more rugby looking than you are. Yes, yes. If you know what we mean, viewers. So yeah, why why to a gentleman that is looking rugby sh but you're more of golf, yes? Oh, athletes, oh football, but rugby.

SPEAKER_05: 23:31

But but but the thing is, yeah, the thing, what I really got to. And and what I'll actually start with is is a story about within the rugby world for me. So that was a sport I really loved. I loved it so much. I got to a provincial level in terms of playing the sport, and and my and my and I always wanted my parents to come watch me. And so I'll tell my parents, guys, I'm come, I'm playing. Please come watch. And they, I don't know whether they didn't have time or they weren't interested. One of the two, they just didn't show up until one time when I finally managed to get the and we're playing one of our greatest rivals, and so I sat there and um and and I was so excited that my parents are here. Yeah, and we we get in the huddle and we start the game, and I'm giving it everything. Yes, again, remind you, I am small.

SPEAKER_02: 24:20

Yes, but were you the guy who runs fast in the game?

SPEAKER_05: 24:23

No, but the problem is I wasn't even that guy, I wasn't the guy on the outside who's supposed to run. No, me, I was stupid. I was put into the group with the big guys, you know. So I was in the I was in the scrum, yeah, and I was a flanker. So a flanker is essentially somebody who is supposed to tackle people, yes, and it's supposed to be the first one at the time when the ball is on the ground, and they're so they get like engaged in the whole sport.

SPEAKER_02: 24:47

These guys were setting you up for death.

SPEAKER_05: 24:49

And when I look back at it now, I'm like, but seriously, I sh I should I should have like said no. Yeah, I belong there at the back, not in the middle of everything. Yeah, but I was at the middle of everything, and maybe the the fact that I was also stupid and I had a lot of passion for the sport was the reason why I ended up being there. So I I'm there and I get to so you tackle someone, the guy gets to the ground, and you either stand up, or if you're supporting, you're the first one there in defense, and you try to push people off the ball. Now, I was the first one there, and we're playing a really good team, and I just look up and I'm like I over the ball, and I'm like trying to get the ball, and I look up, and they're like four big guys, and they just come and they flatten me. I'm like, yo, this is this is intense, but this is what I've signed up for. My parents are standing there watching me. Yeah, I'm not going to be a punk. You won't find me like crawling out of the game to not today, not when my parents came after after such a long time. Yeah. So I'm there, I'm on it, and I'm playing my heart out. When I finish the game, because the actual story is not in the game. Yeah, but when I finish the game, I'm like, mom, dad, did you see me? And I'm like, smile, ear to ear, and yeah, I was I was limping. But I was these after you guys won or lost. No, we won, of course. Especially for this episode, I will tell you that we won. Yes. And I I I might at times um base my story off of true events, but I've adjusted it for this purpose. For this purpose. You're not even doing like a movie director that goes. No, but we did win, obviously. But um, um so so so I go to my parents, I'm like, Dad, mom, I have that was amazing. Did you see me? Did you watch? My mom was like, What the hell was that? I'm like, what do you mean? I was playing, we won, I did those things, like you should be like lifting me up and hugging me and being so excited. She's like, You almost died. You almost died, yeah. And I'm like, Oh, I didn't almost die, I'm perfectly fine. Look at me. Yeah, I might be limping a bit, and this there's a cut on my eye, but it's nothing major. Yeah, and so she was looking at it the whole game from a different perspective, from the perspective of a mom. Yeah, and she was this is my kid, and she was looking at me and like every time I get hit, she'll be like, Yeah, oh my word, my son's about to die. Yeah, and and and my father didn't have any issues, no, he hated it as well.

SPEAKER_03: 27:20

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 27:21

So he they from that moment on, they were lobbying for me to stop playing rugby, okay, even though I loved it so much. Yeah, and through the next three games, yeah, I then said to myself, my parents want me to quit. I love this sport, I'm gonna go all the way, I'm going all the way, I'm still gonna play. And and for me, the one of the most important things to that is I realize that nobody's watching and nobody cares. It's it's just you, it's me, and it's my journey and it's my decisions, yeah. And and so for me, it's I carried playing rugby, carried on playing rugby, not because what I thought initially was to impress my parents, yeah, but it's because I want to play rugby and I want to be what I want to be within the rugby world, yeah. And so that was that became something that really stuck with me. Like I had so much excitement, so much hope that my parents would not accept me, but they'd be so excited as well. But no, that didn't happen. Yeah, and I had to make a decision. The decision was a decision for me. This is for me. This is for me. Nobody's watching and nobody really cares. Yeah, and so I should just get on with life, make my decisions, and carry on. Yeah, and so within that whole experience, the rugby world, you make lots of friends, you share lots of moments, and you you really it's a gentleman's sport, that's what they call it, even though it looks chaotic. Yeah, it is it is a sport that requires a lot of coordination amongst different people and every and trust, and trust, and every and they with trust because every player needs to play their part. So, yeah, that side, you do your thing, I'm the side, you I'm doing my thing. And that's gonna make sense at the end of the day. And then it has to make sense, yeah. And so for me, a lot of what when I started in within Zimbabwe was was was sport, and that helped me transition from Botswana into Zimbabwe, but then I went to boarding school, and my parents then left Zimbabwe, went back to Botswana, but I was boarding, and so I'd see my parents four times in a year, um, and that was at the age of 13. You get to boarding school, you think that um, well, this is a this is gonna be a different experience. I'm meeting new people, and I really was separate. Like you start, you I was independent from my parents at that point, yeah. And um and you start to make friends and you start to realize the hierarchy of life. Um and and and and at the end of the day, that that became the next part of my my journey in terms of development and growth.

SPEAKER_02: 29:59

Nice, well. When we come back, uh, we'll venture more into this story, but uh for now let's take a short break.

SPEAKER_00: 30:06

Quick puns, folks. We're stepping into a brief interlude, but stay tuned, because after the break, we dive deeper into the incredible journey of our guests. Meanwhile, we'd like to send a massive shout out to our sponsors for memoring this exchange of ideas and innovation. We'll be right back on Impact Masters. Subscribe, follow, and share. Check us out at www.impactmasters.io. See you after the parade.

SPEAKER_02: 30:38

Nice. Zikamai has been in the mining sector for over 10 years, working as an engineer across two of Africa's largest copper mines. Kansashi, Copper Gold Mine, and Sentinel Copper Mine, owned by Frist Quantum Miners Limited. Zikamai has been instrumental in developing and implementing production, maintenance, and cost improvement projects that have shaped the way the business operates. All aspects have been used technology and data to improve strategic business decisions. Without the ability to measure, there is no opportunity to improve. The more objective the measure is the more honest the conversation will be. With every exposure, there's an opportunity to learn and look, to be open-minded, to embrace new ideas and new perspectives, all with the interest of pushing boundaries, growing personally, but also growing with the team that he works with. And this is quite interesting because uh one of the things that uh we're gonna talk more about is why Africa has all these mindrosses, but we're still dealing with hunger as one of the key things every single year, whenever the rains get a bit late. And uh we are blessed to have Zikmai in the house, courtesy of Impact Masters Podcast and Africa's Talking Retort Podcast, telling the way it is, showcasing movers and shakers in Africa. We tell our own story, we own our own story, and we take action appropriately. So, Zikmai, you are in Zimbabwe, and you are a rugby player. You are you are you are moving and shaking in the world of sports, and uh here you have realized that it's you and you alone. And I love that. I'm I'm so envious of that life where you realize at a young age, actually I got me, and whatever decision I make, I have to own it. What next?

SPEAKER_05: 32:40

So I think one of the most important things for me was in boarding school, you learn about community, you learn about that you're a cluster and you can't live in isolation. And so as I go through this journey, you have the older generation, yeah. So the guys who are about to leave high school, yeah, and they obviously have fun with the young ones, right? They send you around, they might um play games or you know be a little bit rough with you, but all in all, the the people that you actually spend most of your time with are the people that go through different experiences with you.

SPEAKER_07: 33:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 33:29

And so the community that then we forge in that moment become the bonds that I've kept the longest throughout my entire life. Yeah. And that's because we've we've had we've got shared experiences, we've got shared moments, and we've got a certain level of trust and a bond that circumvents a lot of different experiences that I might have when I meet somebody for the first time at an elder, at an older age.

SPEAKER_04: 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 33:55

And so for me, one of the major things was going through high school and experiencing a lot of different things, but you're doing it with the same group of people.

SPEAKER_04: 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 34:06

And so um we we were challenged by um somebody in an older year, and he said, you know what, you guys are useless. And the challenge that I'm gonna put before you is that you're gonna enter that talent show, yeah, and you're gonna do a play in Shona. And and it has to be a traditional play. Yeah. And so we're like look, I'm not one to back out from a challenge. So let's assemble the troops, let's get into this. Yeah. And so we then go on to do this horrible, horrible, horrible um skit of um a child who's um lost, and the promised land is given to them, and they then follow this path of righteousness, and it's all inshana, and imagine is horrible because I lived most of my life in Botswana, but here I am giving it everything I got. And I'm doing it with a group of people, and and you have different moments where there's no no hot water, you you've got all these manual labor activities that you're doing, and at the end of the day, you've got shared experiences with a very close and a good group of people. Yeah. And so for me, the the essence of community becomes this uh what I know is going to be the thing that takes me forward. Yes. In addition to that, I still continue with this rugby world, and we then have an unbeaten season. I am playing in uh a year higher than I should be. And I'm continuing. Do you still in high school or in the school college? Okay. In high school. So so unbeaten season, and and and one of the coaches talked about there's um the New Zealand team. Okay, they do a traditional dance called the Haka before they play. And the Haka, when you then translate it into um into English, talks about the passion and the camaraderie, the the unity of of the team and your colleagues. Yeah. And at the end of the day, for me, the idea of excellence, the idea of commitment, and the idea of working for each other with each other become a very pivotal part towards how we get to an unbeaten season, how we um improve year on year, and and how I develop this bond with with my with my colleagues and my my euromates, essentially. Yeah. And and being away from my parents, I then am completely, I'm I'm independent. I'm not, I'm very independent. Yeah. Um, and so I I continued, that's that's that's the journey within the high school space. But 2001.

SPEAKER_02: 36:55

But wait a minute, with all this sport, how did you do academically?

SPEAKER_05: 36:58

So the the beauty about um having a different group of friends. Okay. So I I played different sports for and I made different types of friends. So you'd be in the bridge club and the volleyball club with a different group of friends, and then you'd do uh squash and um. Oh, you guys are squasher in ice school?

SPEAKER_02: 37:22

Yes. Okay, yes. Which i school is this?

SPEAKER_05: 37:25

It's uh Pete House.

SPEAKER_02: 37:26

Oh, yes, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 37:28

So no wonder. I don't even know what that means. No wonder I don't know what that what that no wonder means, but yes, we did. I did.

SPEAKER_02: 37:37

And and and um without without any um guys, if you don't know Peter House iSchool, please check it out.

SPEAKER_05: 37:49

Yes, but but the beauty about having a different diverse group of friends is that I had my friends who were academic, and I always knew that my life is not going to be a life where I succeed in sport. I knew that my life is going to be centered around my academia. Yeah. So as much as I did the sport, my discipl the things that I learned from the sport, discipline and how I work with different individuals were the things that I was also applying within my academic life.

SPEAKER_04: 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 38:18

And so I wouldn't say I was a superstar in the classroom, but I I tried to make sure that I I didn't um I I passed and I and I I didn't go home to my parents with with with uh with with nuns nonsense on my grade card. Even more so is because my parents had to sacrifice quite a bit for me to go to that school.

SPEAKER_02: 38:39

Maybe they sacrificed everything.

SPEAKER_05: 38:40

And they did. You're looking at it, which house were you in? No. I don't know. I don't even know why why you're asking me these questions because I'm starting to get a bit uncomfortable here. No, and this is the first time I'm there. I don't know. You should be proud of your parents. I am proud in the school. I'm proud, but it seems like you know something that I might not know.

SPEAKER_02: 39:01

I know a lot of things, my friend. So yeah, if you don't know Peter House's school, check it out. It's in Mashona Land. Yes, in uh Zimbabwe. Yeah, a very good school indeed. Actually, it's one of the top 10, top 100, top 20.

SPEAKER_05: 39:16

It's definitely the first, it's the best. It's in Zimbabwe, definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 39:19

So it's like Alliance High School here, guys. So no jokes around. Actually, it's not like Alliance now that I take back my word. This school that is in Molo, what is the name? Is it Saint Andrew's Touries or like St. Andrew's Touries? To give you the context.

SPEAKER_05: 39:34

I I don't know what St. Andrew is.

SPEAKER_02: 39:36

No, I'm trying to give the context to our Kenyan viewers.

SPEAKER_05: 39:39

But okay, I'll let you have the context. I'm gonna Google that afterwards, and I'll I'll write in the comments below.

SPEAKER_02: 39:45

It's a private school, you pay a lot of money to be in it. It's good school, they're squash. I knew about squash after university, my friends. Well, that's how good this school is. Anyway, besides the school, I got I learned about squash when I got to the school, so I was like, oh, so people do this.

SPEAKER_05: 40:03

High school, high school after yes, but I mean, I also learned when I got there.

SPEAKER_02: 40:07

Now imagine I had to graduate to learn about squash.

SPEAKER_05: 40:11

You see, there's never there's never a late time, there's never a late time for something. So so so after this, you'll go play squash.

SPEAKER_02: 40:18

No, I just wanted to insist on Peter House School, it's not something you just say, it's Peter House Boys' School in Mashona Land. It's Zibamboy, yeah, it's independent boarding high school, and uh it looks like actually it was worth it from what you have said, taught you discipline, you're able to swim while it's raining, you play rugby, you play squash, but the point was how you hacked it academically before I interrupted you either.

SPEAKER_05: 40:47

Insisting that it was Peter's insisting on it was features. Look, I think at the end of the day, what it was for me was a combination of the uh the school, yeah, I mean the extracurricular activities, so that included chess, all these other things, debate. Yeah, those were fantastic, but the academia had to come first.

SPEAKER_02: 41:06

But truth aside, there's something actually that comes in my mind. Uh good schools actually generally, especially private schools, they insist on you being all-way rounded. What is that? I've never gone to private school in my entire life, even university to public, but you can see it did a good job, though.

SPEAKER_05: 41:27

Yes, it did.

SPEAKER_02: 41:28

So, what is this being all way rounded? What does that do to someone who is growing? You know, you are a teenager, you know, there's all the energy and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_05: 41:39

So, the first thing that I'm gonna say is that in this modern day and age, yeah, we have got a lot of opportunities and facilities that are available to different people, yeah, whether you're a private school or public school. Yes, right. Yes. So then the the question now becomes on the guidance to be able to maximize on those things. Oh, absolutely, and then the commitment from the individual to actually maximize from those things.

SPEAKER_04: 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 42:03

So for me, what I was fortunate enough to be able to go to a school like that. And what it that then does is it exposes you that when you work in a team, yes, how I work in a team is important in the way that I communicate from from me to somebody else. Yes. And how I relate with you. Yes. And even in a high ten high pressure environment, how do I communicate with you? And I told you rugby is a sport where you have to be coordinated and trust.

SPEAKER_04: 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 42:34

And so it is not good enough for me to not communicate effectively to my team member. Yes. And the more I practice that muscle, the better I am. And the sooner I start practicing that muscle, the better I am at a later stage in my life.

SPEAKER_04: 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 42:52

And so for me, what happens with extracurricular activities is that it gives you the opportunity to practice a range of different muscles that might not be solely just technical. Which is as important as academic. Which is as important as academic. So the softer skills that you then find yourself requiring when you're now 35, 40, 50, those are the ones that you need to find ways to practice and train that muscle so that you can equip yourself with the tools at a later stage to be able to deal with very awkward situations or very difficult situations. Yeah. And I and I and I think when we talk about roundedness, is that I can come to school every day and I'll do maths and I'll be very good. Yeah. And then I finish school and I get a distinction in my university. But then when it now comes time for me to be able to convey what is in my head to you, we now have this gap.

SPEAKER_02: 43:54

Yeah. Because it's as useless as you're if you're not shared it, if you're not able to help someone else with that. Exactly. And I think you've said a very important thing in people's life that people actually, the earlier they know that everything they do is to be able to help others. As they help themselves, then the dynamics of things change. People start collaborating more, people start seeing the bigger picture beyond just passing an exam or winning. You know, sometimes most people want to be the heroes of everything. So you start actually appreciating holding other people's hand because that gives you an extra hedge when it comes to the real world. Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 44:33

And and within the real world, you a team is only as strong as its weakest link. Absolutely. So if you're not able to help your other team members, and and I'm gonna talk about it actually from a larger context. If I go Africa, yes, when we look at us as a continent, one billion people, and then we're growing. I apologize. Yes. 1.6 and growing. Yeah. And how do we then work with each other? Yeah, help each other to be at that space by leveraging the resources, the people, the mindset.

SPEAKER_02: 45:11

There's so much here. A lot. A lot. Huge, and we're gonna delve into it in a bit. So I won't go into that too much. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So you you you finish Peter House. You graduate from Peter House. Yes. You know, at some point I thought maybe the curriculum in uh Zimbabwe is IGCSC. It is. Like that's the whole collectium in either private or public.

SPEAKER_05: 45:33

No, yeah, so there is um Zimsec, uh, which is uh Zimbabwe secondary education. So you there is there's um IGCSC, which is IGCSC International, and then there's also Zimsec. So yeah, you you have a lot of people who do um Zimsecks. Yeah, I I um I did some subjects in Zimsec and then I did my IGCSE. So yes, so yeah, both.

SPEAKER_02: 45:56

How did you do in IGCSE?

SPEAKER_05: 46:00

Um oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02: 46:02

You forgot.

SPEAKER_05: 46:03

I've forgotten it doesn't count. It it does, it does, because English literature literature was one of my best uh subjects. So and I don't know how I managed to do that, but um um I I I did all right. I I think I did all right. I didn't do, I wasn't on the front page of any newspaper. What is alright? What are you trying to excuse me? I'm trying to be diplomatic about how I did here. I don't need anyone else knowing. I I you know some things you know when you pass them, you just want to, okay, at least that chapter in my life is past. Let's move on. I'm now an adult, I'm not doing things, you know. But can't we just focus on the here and now?

SPEAKER_02: 46:38

Like, why we let me give you some context. Yeah, every person who has seated where you are seated and say they did all right, they did not do just all right. So that's why I'm trying to like, guys, stop being you know, uh modest about these things, but but it's fine. I can answer it. Let me answer this.

SPEAKER_05: 46:59

Um so and and um for correction, yes. Um I think I got uh uh one A star, four A's, two B's, and a C. Something like that, guys.

SPEAKER_02: 47:09

That is what all right means. Did you hear it? That's that's all right, and this is IGCSC, guys. It's not just another, you know, Tom Dick, and R kind of curriculum. This is a curriculum that gets you to the University of Liverpool. Yeah, that's all right. That's the all right we're talking about here, without doing any other exam, correct? No, did you do another exam?

SPEAKER_05: 47:30

So, so so so things in 2004. Yes. Um, at that time, 2001, land invasions in Zimbabwe really changed the outlook of what's in the sanctions and whatnot. Then sanctions come into play, and what was a very thriving uh agricultural econom uh agricultural sector um was in a state of disrepair. They were it was it was dismantling. Yeah. And um, and and look, I've got different views upon around that.

SPEAKER_02: 48:08

Yeah. What is your view, number one?

SPEAKER_05: 48:10

Number one? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:13

I think Mugabe should not have overreacted.

SPEAKER_05: 48:16

No, I think it's important that some form of rebalancing of an economy is important to have had. After years of colonialism, it is there's a large disadvantage that has been entrenched in any country as a function of colonialism and the rules that existed. Yeah and so, how then do you transition from that point to a point where the people who are largely disadvantaged and were indigenous to that land, how do they then also participate within the economy in a way that is meaningful? And so you have to start somewhere and you have to do something. So I completely believe in that idea that a transformation has to happen. And then now the question is about how. And so you can always do different things and you can have economic sort of agreements and try to infuse different people over time. But at the end of the day, you m you have to bite a bullet to transform. Okay. And you you then ride that wave and you run with that. So I think I think that is a it's a whether he Mugabe did it around for political reasons or not, yeah, is not what I want to talk about. But I believe that it could have been done better, it could have been done better, you could argue that. But a parent raising their first kid could have done it better. Okay. You when you're doing something for the first time, you you have to just do it. Yeah. And then you move from that point. Yes. So I I I I I can't sit here and then criticize. I can talk about a vision that I I I can agree with. Yes, and say that if you if we have to make and be included within a global economy, yes, we have to also stand up, be heard, stand our ground, and actually make impactful and meaningful change coordinated amongst each other to serve our own purposes. Because it's very easy to watch TV, TikTok, Instagram. And all of these things are being fed to us from other spaces. Yes. They don't carry our cultural context, they don't carry our cultural messages, the history that we've had. Yeah, a lot of that stuff is not there. Now, how do I charge the future if I don't understand my past, if it's not infused within the tools and mechanisms that I have going forward? All of these things are very, very important.

SPEAKER_04: 50:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 50:35

And so I and it requires us to stand up, be heard, be part of the journey. And that is not as the face, but within the economic space of this journey, that is capital raising, financing, all the rest of it. And I think those are the things that are that's what I think is the continued legacy of some of the leaders that have transitioned, helped us transition from a colonial state into one in which we're self-governing. Yeah. Was it that bad? What?

SPEAKER_02: 51:05

The situation because it was abrupt or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 51:08

So it was that it was relatively abrupt. We had a lot of um white farmers get evicted from their land, and um what was a very thriving um agricultural sector, cotton, tobacco, just essentially stopped. Um, and so then you started to find a lot of food scarcity, and then from that you then had sanctions that then came into play.

SPEAKER_02: 51:33

Even if you farmed, there was nowhere to export these things.

SPEAKER_05: 51:35

There was nowhere to export, but at the end of the day, you find that the whole economy within Zimbabwe starts to deteriorate because over time. And and and so by the time you get to from 2001, by the time you get to uh 2008, you have hyperinflation. So you wake up today, the the price of bread is X. Yeah, by the time that you get to the morning, it is uh 25.

SPEAKER_02: 52:01

I was like, no, guys, be kind to your brothers and sisters. You go to buy a bread using a wheelbarrow full of cash, and it's not fair.

SPEAKER_05: 52:11

It's not it's not fair at all. And and then and in that moment, it is it is it is mind-blowing when you find your bill at the eight at the at the supermarket being uh over a trillion dollars, you know. Zimbabwe and dollars, yes, indeed. And let me ask you this uh uh Zikamai.

SPEAKER_02: 52:28

Do you think other African countries could have done better in this situation? Whereby if these things were exported maybe in some market that you sanctioned, they could actually be imported even around commerce. Because I'm not sure you guys got sanctioned around commerce.

SPEAKER_05: 52:43

So so I think a lot of the So if I look at the Africa Free Trade Agreement that was signed about 2022, I believe.

SPEAKER_04: 52:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 52:54

The Africa Free Trade Agreement is one that's supposed to facilitate trade across Africa.

SPEAKER_04: 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 52:59

And the though there have been steps that we've made, yeah, the question then becomes to what margin have we utilized that Africa Free Trade Agreement?

SPEAKER_07: 53:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 53:09

So the platform, the the policies, the environment needs the the the how can I say the pipe needs to be in place in order for other countries to be able to plug in and start supporting Zimbabwe as an example. And if that pipework doesn't exist, if those policies don't exist, if that framework doesn't exist, it becomes now very difficult. Because if everything is being run through, let's say, the Swift banking process.

SPEAKER_02: 53:37

Yeah, which you don't own.

SPEAKER_05: 53:38

Which we don't own. So once you get shut the sanctions, yeah. And so it's it's it's it's one of those things. Zimbabwe had no currency in which you could legally transact in an international forum.

SPEAKER_04: 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 53:51

So I could hold lots of money in Zimbabwe, but how do I now get it outside? I have to translate it into dollars, hard cash, move across the border and then which you're sanctioned for. Which are sanctioned, but at the end of the day, it makes it difficult for you in Kenya to do business with me.

SPEAKER_04: 54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 54:06

Because the the the piping is not necessarily there. Yeah. And those pipings are essentially held and and controlled essentially by people who then impose those sanctions upon us. Yeah. And so it now becomes a very difficult landscape to actually leverage your brother next door.

SPEAKER_03: 54:23

True.

SPEAKER_05: 54:24

Whether they want to or not, because politically as well, for them to get involved with us, yeah, is it might not be favorable.

SPEAKER_04: 54:32

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 54:33

And so I think could they have done better? Yeah, everybody can do better. Um, I do think so, yes. But I but I also think that we hadn't we hadn't as an as a continent been created the pipework for us to be able to now plug in and support each other effectively.

SPEAKER_04: 54:50

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 54:51

But you and I, we are here and and you know, we we are doing the work. And we want more African young people like us to put in the work because essentially, after all said and done, actually, sometimes it's you know putting the infrastructure into place, uh, building a scale, uh, trying to talk the way it is and see the bigger picture, yeah so that we own the process and the goods. Yeah. If we don't own the goods, we own the process, as they say. If we own the goods, but we don't own the process, you're still in the same quagmire.

SPEAKER_07: 55:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:26

So this happens. And you're in high school, you're finishing high school?

SPEAKER_05: 55:30

Yeah, so um just before actually, so all of that happened, and because of that, my parents thought it was best that I move back to Botswana. Okay. Alone or now with them? Sorry? Did you move alone or no? So my parents when as soon as I started in in in high school, my parents already moved to Botswana. Okay. And so I then follow my parents and relocate also to then live in Botswana. Yeah. And I'm doing day school now, which is also very different. Yeah. Um, I get to interact a lot more with my parents, which from the age of 13 I wasn't doing.

SPEAKER_04: 56:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 56:04

And um at the same time, uh, with that, I start, I guess, I meet who is my wife now. I meet her in high school. Okay. But I go to a school where, and I'm gonna say it quite straight, is that I was actually surprised that wow, there's so many white people here.

SPEAKER_04: 56:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 56:27

And I'm looking around, I'm like, okay, this is different.

SPEAKER_04: 56:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 56:32

And and one major thing was from different cultures, yeah. It was an international school, so it had lots of different cultures.

SPEAKER_02: 56:41

Which one was it?

SPEAKER_05: 56:43

We're doing this again. I mean, I thought we were gonna lift it. We said we did it with Peter House.

SPEAKER_02: 56:49

You went to this school, isn't it? Okay, yes, be proud of it. Yes, okay. That's the least you can do for that.

SPEAKER_05: 56:54

I I I I I I'm I'm with you, I'm with you. I'm proud, I'm proud. Guys, if this guy comes back with a kid, so so so I I went to um Westwood International School. So Westwood International School had a lot of different types of in um people from different countries, yeah. And so now you start to see a melting part of like cultures in school, and they do things very differently. And so I I know the hierarchy within African context. So the older you are, the the more I have to lower my head. I I know that this is this is with age comes wisdom. Yes, and my mother never lies, and the older you get, the less lies you tell. But here I am now in a school with Malaysians and wow wow, these other countries I've never seen before. And these people are talking their mind. I'm like, my friend, this is a lot of words that are coming out of your mouth in contradiction to what the elder has said. Yeah, and um, I I I I start to understand that that is okay. You can still do it in a respectful way, but speak your mind. But speak your mind. Yeah. And so I had no issue talking to peers and challenging them. Yeah. But now when I was now looking up, I had a this hierarchy to do that. Yes, to your elders. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. Yeah. But but the the the worry that exists for me, or and I and I only got to learn this a bit later on, was that within culture, within tradition, sometimes those are the things that limit us.

SPEAKER_02: 58:38

If they're done within fear. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 58:40

If done within fear, and also done without understanding.

SPEAKER_02: 58:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 58:45

If you don't understand why we do these culture things culturally, yeah, then you might actually just do them for the sake of doing them and you might lose a lot of value that exists within it. Absolutely. But then you also might not do it because you think it's for another reason. And so I do believe that it is important to be able to speak my mind. But then for me now running teams, it's important for me to be able to facilitate ideas from younger generations because there's a cultural difference that exists, and I have to reach my hand down as the elder to let them know it is okay and it is not necessarily disrespectful. Or at least when you do it in a way that is not disrespectful, you can still convey a message, an idea, an opinion. And the more opinions we have in the conversations, then you're more likely to reach a better consensus.

SPEAKER_04: 59:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 59:38

Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes I think it's good to be a dictator and just give a decision and go for it.

SPEAKER_02: 59:44

Yeah, I mean, uh you are right, but sometimes you know the environment is not always set that way. Yeah. And uh, you know, also even from the beatings that you know African kids receive, I'm not saying discipline is not good, but Most of it is done from the trauma of colonization. You know, colonization you have to be beaten around like donkeys or something, you know. Yes. Donkeys are supposed to be beaten, but you know, it was always brutal. Yeah. Like everything was you were looked down upon. Yeah. Even today, people call us uncivilized. Yeah. But if you do your uh due diligence and proper history, you realize Africa is was the most civilized among us many other continents. And it goes back even to the point where no one knows the mathematics used to build the pyramids where it came from, and so on and so forth. And the list goes on. There's also stories about Atlantic City. Some of it is considered conspiracy, but there's always some history rich that shows that Africa was civilized before maybe most of that, or maybe equally. I don't want to put anyone down. And you know, when this is taught to you to like two, three generations or five generations, which is a span of 10 to 15 years. Yeah. When those generations actually accept this is the way, then the coming generation realize, oh, maybe we are uncivilized. But some of it is by design. And I think that's what most people should actually uh focus that with 1.6 billion people, we're not Africans have never been the people who want to look down upon anyone. They just want to live and live a good life, right? Why don't we play our part in the world and either provide innovation, provide uh valuable uh capitalists, whatever economies, be be a key player. And if someone wants to invest in Africa, not just give handouts and you know, yeah, you know, just just empower that pipeline so that Zika Mai, MK, and anyone else can actually build a meaningful life and create generational world. Yeah. And that way we live in a sustainable world, both through minerals, both through agriculture, through coffee, all these things that actually can be able to farm and export. But the environment that we deal in, and this is the truth, if anyone has a different truth, that's fine. But this is the truth that the longest I've lived in this world, and mostly in Africa, is that some environment that we are operating in, very rarely do we get to experience the same equal opportunity with everyone else. Either there are some boundaries that are put for us, there are some regulations that are always, you know, you're not up to standard. But it's good we're having this conversation. Yeah, technology has come in to change a lot of these things.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:34

And I and I think one of the major things is us preparing ourselves firstly to be able to leverage and use the technology that's there. Absolutely. So we should we have a part to play. We can't sit here and expect, oh, I've got this. Things to be added over to us.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:02:51

You have to play your part, and and it's it's easy to be good, yeah. But the difference between good and excellent is a monumental difference between the two. Yeah, and sometimes I feel like we aspire to just be good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:08

And when you say this and you're from mining and uh engineering specifically, you have my attention. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:14

And it's easy to be just good, yeah, but really we need to thrive and strive for excellence. Now, please break that done. There's there's a large part for me that has to do with the echoes of our ancestors or echoes of our parents. So I grew up, my parents always were like, you know, go to the United Kingdom. Because that was viewed in a very in a higher light, right? And so it still is. It still is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:48

When I were in high school, where uh when uh someone slept a bit, we used to say Mycia London, life in London.

SPEAKER_05: 1:03:55

But but but the but the thing is, yeah, it's not, it there's nothing special about some of these places that we put on a pedestal. Yeah, it is yes, it's got this and that, and we see it on TV, but at the end of the day, if you want to talk about where opportunities lie and where there is there's room for a lot of different things, yeah, you could find a lot of that stuff same within within Kenya, within within an African context. Yeah. But we put, let's say, for example, the British on the pedestal, and and I'll use an example, and I got nothing against the British, but if you if you go and you go to certain places, and Liverpool is an example, you you talk to somebody in English, you'll be like, This is not English that you're speaking, my friend. Because you they are they've got very different dialects, and some of them might not even slang. So yes, and a lot of slang. And so you go, you you go how you speak the Queen's Queen's English, and we think here we're doing good by speaking, but there, even in England itself, they don't care, they don't care. So at some at times I think we we put onto a pedestal the idea that something else is bigger and better than us, but in the reality is that nobody's gonna come save us, and we have to chart our own future and our own. Everyone is busy saving themselves, everyone's saving themselves, 100%. And so when I talk about that excellence, is what is that vision of what we want? Yeah, what is our promised land? What is our future looking like? Yeah, and then once we have that vision that is associated to where we want to be, and not a vision because social media and the US and you know, the West, even China, Russia, what not, not because we are being enforced or in imposed upon, but because we know culturally these things are important to us as a people.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:05:53

And I mean, we we we had a laugh around polygamy as an example and and its role within society. And and I genuinely believe that polygamy has got a reputation that is and a narrative that has been driven primarily by the West. Yes, absolutely. And it doesn't necessarily have to carry the stigma that it does currently.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:06:18

And one might then ask and question about from the context of a female is polygamy, right? So so from a man, um it's easy for me to say polygamy is the way forward, but from the context of a female is is she empowered to also contribute and to be, but the reality is within an African society, everybody has a part to play. Yeah. And everybody knows the value of their part to play. Absolutely. And the whether a lot of women want this role currently or not, historically, the role of a woman would be to look after the family, to raise the family. You know, a household is a household because of the wife. Absolutely. And that does not change an inch. And and it hasn't changed an inch. But at the end of the day, a lot of these things don't necessarily need to be imposed on everybody. But I do believe that the stereotype or the context that we talk about it, you might look down upon polygamy because you are taught to look down. Yeah, and those are the echoes of our past. And the reality is when we are building our future, we need to be wary that we shouldn't build based on the echoes of our past, but rather we should build based on what we and the reality and the reality of society, yeah, and what brings us value. And the the the West has a very individualistic society, the east has a very collective society. We are more collective as a community and man for himself, God for us all. Indeed. And and at the end of the day, you find that even depression. I mean, we this month is men's mental health awareness. Say that again, say that again. This month is men's mental health. Thank you so much. And and at the end of the day, it is important for me that I have the community that can help me, support me, and not put the whole burden of a community on one individual, my wife.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:24

Let me let me tell you something. Just a bit, don't forget your line of thought. Go for it. This month, May of 2024, is man's mental health. And yesterday, or the day before yesterday, is it yeah, the day before yesterday was men's day. Yeah, or so they say, and in my entire life, I've been hearing about men's day, right? And one thing actually that has traumatized me along the way is Women's Day. I don't know the other, they have quite some days. I'm like, come on now. I have nothing against our women. Actually, I love women with all my heart because you know, we do everything for women, especially in Africa. I don't speak for anyone else. We go to work, we you know, everything. Actually, some of us some of us kill lions for women. It's very serious. It's very serious when it comes to women's business in Africa. It's very, very serious. But this time, my partner tells me, you know what? I want to take you for a treat.

unknown: 1:09:33

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:35

That's the reaction. And then you're like, okay, okay, okay, what is happening? What is the reaction? Because I don't celebrate my birthdays around, you know, what is happening? You're looking around. Are we good here? So, and she indeed took me for a treat. And I was like, if for a moment we took some time and thought about, not just because women versus men versus children, versus all this shenanigans, and we live like human beings, yeah, and we do the right thing, which is respecting everyone's boundary, ensuring that we take care of each other, ensuring we show up for each other, and not man for himself and God for us all. Guess what? We be more better people, yeah. We never take this world with us at the end of the day. We all leave everything that maybe even worse than we found them, but we leave it at the end of the day. Yeah. So it's very good that you mentioned that it's men, men's mental health. The reason why I insisted it's May is because this podcast might not be released in May. And I want people to understand when this conversation happened. No, no, please.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:37

And the thing is, the thing is, there's um right now I can't remember the name of the book, but the the idea of men's mental health for me, especially within the context of Africa, is that we carry a lot of expectation as men.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:10:55

And we have no avenue to actually, at least just once in a while, just take the load off and put it to the side. And so you end up finding a lot of alcohol abuse, you find a lot of different these things manifesting themselves in different ways. Yeah. And no more so than than suicide. I mean, yeah, in in Kenya alone, I believe uh one in eight suicides are are are men.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:21

Um, and that's a statistic that's consistent across the world. Yeah. And the weight that men carry, just trying to live through the issues and struggles, I think is something that sometimes gets underplayed, and then we just carry it as a silent illness.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:11:38

Um, but the reality is that for me, what I believe is that the community that we have around us, yeah, the people that we talk to, yeah, the opportunity to get support is fundamental to the structure of society that we live in. And so at the end of the day, when we look at Africa, we have a collective identity as people, and one which is ingrained within a community, Ubuntu, a tribe. We we we are together. We are I am because you are. Yes. And and I think some of these things that we sometimes path, some of these journeys that we sometimes walk, we forget that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:21

And we want to follow an ideology, uh a view from the Western world, which one man for him for himself.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:12:30

And quite frankly, I think if we don't chart our path, our future, yeah, with those conscious ideas that we are trying to build something for ourselves. Yes. We will find that we will create something and look back at it and be like, wow, this is who are these? Who has this who is this?

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:48

And you're actually you're starting to see that uh trend uh uh crop in um from different uh interactions that are happening right now where people are getting mixed identities and then they are convolated, like, am I this or that? And then in between there, they lose meaning of life. Yeah, because now if you lose that radar that guides you in life, and there's a reason why African, even without maybe the education that we're told, we didn't have, though I have a different opinion, that we were the most educated people. It's just that our education way of doing things was not capitalist, and also it taught people according to their strength, which is the best education, which I which I I don't disagree with. Yes, yeah. So with that, I think we need to recalibrate and say, guys, we have tried everything, it's not our fault. Maybe some of us were beaten into it. I always listen to black Americans when they go to for interviews, and they're always complaining so bitter, blaming everyone, and they are they have a point because if your great-grandfather taught you how slavery was, uh, you know, being chained, being carried like cows and goats for slaughter, and so on. I know the non-vegetarian place, the vegetarian place, don't come at me. Uh here we slaughter goats and and cows. So you see now even how you have to give disclaimers for such statements. So you you you look at it and you see actually there's a source of this pain, there's a source for this uh bitterness, there's a source for you know people asking for such way of treatment. But look at it from a different angle. I was uh you know in the US uh a few months ago, and one of the things, one of the states I can't remember which I don't know if it's Seattle or some someplace, they have declared loneliness as a pandemic. Yeah, yeah. Come on now. It doesn't just say hi to someone, you know, start a conversation, don't be scared of the people, you know, create a joke, take it as a joke, you know, talk about anything, everything, joke around, you know.

SPEAKER_05: 1:15:04

And but that's the reality of some people's lives, right? That they they can be surrounded by people, but but feel like they are alone. Why? Because you don't have the collective community, you don't have the right to be able to go to a stranger and just say hi and talk to them. It is frowned upon. It is something that it's a muscle that you don't use. I mean, if you don't, if you don't it becomes a sickness, it becomes you then you're then not able to do it. But again, it's one of those things that we ignore soft skills that much, even when you're educated. But the the thing is at the end of the day, we we have our own problems, yeah, um, and we have to solve them. Okay, so sometimes you can't expect like if there's loneliness, right? You're gonna be the only one to get yourself out of that. Yeah. If I'm feeling lonely, no therapy therapist will help you. No therapist. So so so at the end of the day, I have to take ownership of my own life.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:06

I have to then say, whether I'm in the UK, whether wherever I am, I have to then go, you know what? This is not right, this is not how life should be. I at least I'm going to reach out and talk. And and at least if you try, you never know what you might find. Just go with the open mind. Go on with an open mind. So I do I sometimes go, yes, um, the idea of some of the things that you see out of the West, you know, the loneliness is a pandemic now. And I go, but the reality is that individuals need to just be, they need to take grip of their own lives in some instances. Yeah, and in some instances, yes, you need support.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:49

Yeah, but try.

SPEAKER_05: 1:16:51

Yeah, that's the least that you can do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:53

Yeah, try.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:55

And be out there. And be out there. So, Chief, you've man, even if we end this podcast here, you have you've done a solid job in in highlighting some of the things.

SPEAKER_05: 1:17:04

But if you just started, but haven't we? Okay, just started. I was gonna be upset.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:09

Yes, no, you cannot be upset. You told the world my IGC is you're one guy we can have conversations about this. So don't worry. And I hope uh, you know, people pick a lot of learnings and and not just be individualistic. Look at things um holistically in a way that you know sometimes also we're so selfish. Yeah, we always see things on our own lens. I don't know if it's by design or something, but we need also to to ask yourself 10, 20 years from now, if this is a trajectory, where will it land us? Yeah, and I love rocket scientists for one thing. The the the actually do the math for ages. Like if we shoot this rocket, it's gonna land. If something happens, we account for that. If you know, deviation, you know, fuel, temperature, everything. But in real life, people don't do that. Yeah, you know, today we're in 2024, right? What would 2050 look like? Now there's AI, this you know, man for himself, for us. So uh there's inflation, there's uh, you know, uh pandemics, how many pandemics so far? There was 9-11. Yeah, within uh a span of 20 years, actually, we have seen a lot of changes that actually affect human psychology deeply. Actually, corona was the biggest one because now people don't think the same way. Uh and and we have to to ask ourselves a fundamental question, especially as Africans, where do we sit on all this or everything get decided for us? Yeah, and the reason why I'm I'm taking this uh you know uh point is that you said in Liverpool, yeah, we put these people or these countries, and you know, UK is just an example. Yeah, I know there's French with the design and perfumes and all these things. There's Dubai now for people who want how do you okay, Dubai is the sponsor?

SPEAKER_05: 1:19:07

Is there a sponsor from Dubai or something?

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:09

Dubai are good people, you know, emirates might be the sponsor for this podcast, but the thing is uh people go there for holidays. Imagine these are deserts, yeah, and uh you know, Africa, we have so good land and both of the best of both worlds. We have the best deserts, we have the best tropical land, yeah, we have also winter in the south, and I think even some part of the north. Yeah, we have uh we have all the weathers, yeah. Also, we have the best lands and sceneries, but it has taken us at least uh which is the last country to be free? Is it South Africa? 1994? 1994, yeah. So maybe we have had that year's plus to figure these things out. Yeah, Singapore is uh like 50 years, yeah, and they are figuring it out. Of course, there is a history behind that. I'm not you know taking that aside, yeah. Where I sit, I'm saying, how can we play a better place in this world and shape it, not hurting anyone, not taking away from anyone, but just becoming a global, a true global village. And for you, actually, I see you have traversed properly, yeah, and you have realized, oh you just put guys on the pedestal. Yeah, it doesn't mean they're not good or they are evil or something, but actually we can build a better life. Please indulge me.

SPEAKER_05: 1:20:38

So so I mean I get to I get to Liverpool and I get dropped off at the gate at the door with my bags, and I don't know people, and I'm very cold. And I finally make my way to where I'm gonna be staying, and and I look around and I'm like, wow, so this is the space. This is so this is the UK, the United Kingdom. And I'm like, okay, it's very cold. So I'm going to go eat. I go eat, eat the food. I'm like, this is cardboard tasting food. I mean, this is so I'm like, okay, let's maybe there's there's more. And look, there are lots of great things. There are loads of great things about the UK.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:21:28

But for me, what I felt was that they've got a school. The school leverages technology, leverages individuals to be able to give her a curriculum. Yeah, yeah. And they churn out people. Yeah. Right. And at the end of the day, you look around and you're like, everybody ends up being in a rat race. You get created so that you can be in an employment, paying enough money or making enough money to pay your rent and this and that. Then you might be able to get credit, yeah, credit card. And then you live your life balancing between being very indebted or kind of indebted, but you you you essentially are just living on a wheel. Yeah. And that's the majority of people's lives. And when you look at the different structures and systems that exist um within the United Kingdom, within Europe, even electricity or energy, they've got they've got real issues um around that. And and it just takes Russia-Ukraine war for you to realize that once that was um dismantled, you found that uh Europe was struggling to provide electricity. Yeah. And and so all of these things are really just elements that we um that that exist, but we could raise up, rise up to get to a space where we can be doing that ourselves. Now, what helps these countries is Africa, as an example. If you look at France, yeah, and you look at the francophone countries, yeah, and you look at the we'll call it the corner of Africa that has had coup d'etat. So I just I I didn't know this. I I started reading and I then realized that all of these 14 countries carry the the French currency and or all their money is actually stored in the French mint in the French Reserve Bank. And I'm like, but how? And why? Why?

SPEAKER_04: 1:23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:23:45

You find that gold, uranium, and also very a lot of precious minerals are predominantly sold to the French at a at a lower rate, and at the end of the day, then sold by the French at a much higher rate. You find that when you go to these countries, that the predominant suppliers of all goods and services are French. And so then you ask yourself, but this system that we talk about, yes, you're free, you're not colonized anymore, but structurally, the piping is more than colonization. The piping still resembles of of of previous times. And and yet we sit here and we look at each other and we go, we are we are we're making a move. Africa's the next frontier. But if your frontier is piped incorrectly and everything just channels all the way to France, then that is fundamentally where we then don't have a part to play. We we we lose our ability to be part of that conversation. And so we now are just consumers within a world because we literally just hand over certain things to different people, and we then left with whatever they give us back.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:25:01

And so I think that a large part of the discussions have to be around some of the policies that exist to not only empower people locally, yeah, but also to then build the capacity locally so that we can take advantage of the wonderful things that are happening here in Kenya, and I'm down in Zambia, in Zimbabwe, in Botswana. And how do I leverage both of those worlds? And I was telling um the people around um the team that so we have a team um, and I'm moving forward, fast-forwarding. Yeah, uh, I have a team um where we work in the AI and digital and data science space. Yeah, and though that's a buzzword, I think yeah, eventually that is what has to be every business in reality. But we're not gonna get into that because I might be called out for some lies or whatever, but it's a but we we have a team, and and the team is consists of um people in Ghana, Nigeria, yeah, Kenya, yeah, Botswana, yeah, South Africa, okay, Zambia. Okay, and I met these nothing in the north, no, Kenya. Oh, like north, not like Egypt. Yes, we're looking for people. So thank you so much for raising that point. So for anybody who is in Egypt or in any of the northern countries, we would like to give you the opportunity. Correct. We'd like to give you the opportunity to work with the data central.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:30

So they don't consider themselves Africans, no, no, no, they are part.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:33

No, no, I'm still loved. Me, I'm taking them. Yeah, I could say I consider them part of Africa, yeah, whether they want to or they don't. So I'd like to just take this opportunity to say, please, yeah, visit data sendles.com and please just just just apply. Because I mean, for us, we would like a lot more different people as well. Yeah, but we've got those different types of people across. And the the the team here in Kenya, they've been working for us a year, give or take. Yeah, and I'm meeting them for the first time today. Okay, and we've done lots of different things. We've produced podcast episodes, yeah, 15 to be exact. Oh, and I've never met Nyanga. Nyaga.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27:20

Nyaga.

SPEAKER_05: 1:27:20

Yeah, damn it. Paul Nyaga. Paul Nyaga. I've never I've never met him, and but the but yet we work and we're working well with each other. And and at the end of the day, it's like technology exists in order to be able to facilitate the the best out of us, to be able to leverage what exists and is actually quite close to us. And sometimes we just limit ourselves and say, well, I what I have is what I have, the people that I know that opportunity exists well beyond my locality. Yeah, and I might not even know meet somebody, but the reality is that if I leverage every single corner of Africa, if we coordinate your ideas, yours, your vision, your your promise, the work, the excellence, the skills that you have, I can take some of that and and and complement it with what I'm doing, and then we multiply what we have, and we end up creating value more than what we could have done as individuals alone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05: 1:28:24

And so that vision, that um mindset of abundance, yeah, really needs to be there for us to be able to firstly create the vision. Yeah, but then once we've created the vision, we then need the piping in order to make that work. Those are the policies, those are the I mean, the idea of Africa Free Trade Agreement is one in which if I need to move something from Southern Africa to North, I shouldn't have to pay tax and in each country for each country and customs and it's not even tenable, it's not even, and then it then it prices us out of a global economy economy. Yeah, when you build a plane, you you you get the parts from all over the world, put it all together, and it has to be as cost-effective for a business to do that, yeah. And and and policy plays a major role in that. After you've got policy, after you've got the vision, policy, in my mind, the people. Yeah, you will not do anything in the absence of human capacity, yes, and that comes even before technology. The people are the foundation of any business to work, yeah. And so when I look around within the people space, it is the person has to put in the work, they need to strive for not only being the best within Nairobi. No, yeah, I want to be the best in Kenya, I want to be the best within the region. Yeah, I want to be able to impact lives across Africa. Yeah, and I have to have the courage. The tenacity, the rigor, the grit to be determined that my journey is not going to stop at the corner within my space. No. And that means that I have to put in the work. I have to read up. I have to research. I have to know my stuff. I can't walk into a room and start going, oh, so uh, what are we here for? And and start fumbling through a process. It has to be very deliberate. We have to equip ourselves. Yes. So that when we get an opportunity, if the door opens just a little bit, I should put both feet in and my head. And when I'm in that room, then I should shine. Yeah. And it should not be with an apologetic view around, oh no, um, thank you for opening the door. I'd write that. No, it's I'm I'm here, thank you. Yeah. And you've got this problem, I've got this, this is what an opportunity looks like. Let's go for it. And I'm giving you solutions because I'm here to create value. Yeah. And so I think I'm digressing now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:07

No, no, you are making a very important point because that actually expounds more on being good enough and excellence. Yeah. And excellence here, by the way, is not where you debate, you know, it's you're you're an expert in whatever field you are in. And by the way, I'm uh from the same school of thought uh that we need more experts in everything. And I'll ask you, because you see some sometimes there's a buzz and there is a reality. Yeah. Me as a Michael Kemadi or MK, I realized that technology is here with us almost 15 years ago. And one of the things that everyone, you know, every university chants graduates or colleges chance, you know, graduates. But the reality on the ground is that once you chance, very few people either will go to PwC or Deloitte or SafariCop by then. But there's a whole hoister of world out here that it's not covered. If you're not working at Facebook or Google or Microsoft or AWS or NASA, or now there's Tesla or Twitter, you're missing out on the real technology that is making change at scale. Yeah. And if you at all, because I don't believe also in jobs. Yeah, jobs is a sort of slavery. They pay you enough not to sleep hungry and show up next day. I hope my employer is listening. But the thing is, and that's the truth, actually, and I don't blame them because also you have to run a business.

SPEAKER_05: 1:32:41

Sorry, um, anybody running businesses, including myself, I I've got employees, so no, job is not a way of just it's it's it's a good way of you, you know. So don't listen to this guy. He's gonna lead you to quit your job and then follow a passion and a dream, which is not what I would like.

unknown: 1:33:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:00

And in addition to what you have said, because also I'm an entrepreneur and also, you know, I've ever paid guys here and there, I still pay some guys here and there, is that for business to make sense, it's not intentional for you to be paid just enough. Yeah. And in the context of Africa or developing world, that is Brazil and other places, India, you know, some some sort of developing art, is that there is always more employees than the jobs. Yeah. And with that, it it's more of a demand-supply kind of thing, yeah. Whereby you pay enough or less, or you know, market rate as they call it, yeah, just to make sure that it makes sense. Someone will actually ship some job in in this developing market because they'll get cheap labor. Yeah. But thinking about it, how do we make sure that we are really good? Not just only are we creating jobs, but we are really good to an extent that even if we offered a guy in San Francisco a service, actually, if they look at the quality of work, it will be much, much better than even the guy who graduated from UC Berkeley. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:34:08

So my personal view is that we've got a lot of brilliant minds in Africa. Yes. And the reality is that we need to set the standards. So we need to set the standards around within the fintech space, which within within Kenya, you guys lead across the world. If you go to this America, you'll find checkbooks. Yeah. What's a checkbook? But at the end of the day, the the the way that fintech exists here does not exist anywhere else in the world. But I believe that it is about setting the standards and solving the problems. Now, how do we then get us to be competitive at that point, right? I personally believe vision and leadership. It's we cannot accept the leaders that we have, and even the individuals should not accept anything short of amazing excellence, yeah, right? So, what does excellence look like? It looks like your it's as far as your imagination actually takes you. So your imagination should go, well, I've got this problem, and this problem looks like X. I've got this cup. Yeah, this cup should always refill. Yeah. So I don't want to find myself in a position where this is not full. Yes. And now I need to find effective, lazy, I call it lazy actually, ways of getting that done. With the least effort. With the least effort. And it requires a lot of creativity and time. And time. So you do one iteration, the next iteration, the next iteration. And at the end of the day, I believe that countries that are developed, right? Yeah, it is through iteration, through tries, attempts, through experiences that they've had that get them to that point. Yeah. And for us, what we need to do is we need to be having more experiences. Yeah. So that we can then say, This, now I need to get better at this. And then we push that bar more and more towards that space that we think we can we can get to. So that's one way of getting doing that. The other way is you can see what is already there. In some of these countries, you can go, you go to China, you see what's there, you know what this looks like. And then you go, you know what? We now to we now need to put the piping so that we can be challenging in a similar light. We can be doing things to that same degree. And so we don't necessarily need to learn all the lessons to get to the same place, but we can essentially jumpstart ourselves from point A to point Z by learning from others and what they've already done. But there's no quick way to get through a problem.

SPEAKER_04: 1:36:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:37:00

You have to do. And the more of us that participate in actually doing things, then you know and you start to build the muscle to be able to get things done and then to get things done at the right level. But even as we speak now, there are a lot of countries. And an example is within India. India outsources is an outsource, it's a human capital space. A lot of people from the West will outsource a lot of the work to Indian companies and they will just be churning out results. Yeah. So that means that from a capacity point of view, it exists. Yeah. They do the same thing with a lot of African countries. I know friends of mine that are working remotely in and for companies in the US. Yeah. Why? Because we've got the skills, we've got the expertise. That exists. It's all here. But now, because there is no demand and supply, so if locally we do not have a demand for these individuals, they will go elsewhere and get that service and get that remuneration, whether it's remotely or actually relocating. But the reality is we want to keep them here. So we have to create an environment that then pulls them here and creates that demand and increases salaries here. Because at the end of the day, AI and um data science is an example. Yeah. Analytics, storage of data. Storage of data happens typically on clouds, right? Yeah. But big players, we store, we give them the data.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:38:34

Then they run machine learning algorithms on that, and then generative AI gets essentially fed with all this other information. And at the end of the day, we have given them the tools that they need in order to be able to sell us products and services. And the reality is that if we were to then say within an African context, we want to centralize data from Africa within and held within Africa. And then we then are starting to build our own technologies that then support us within the right context. Then that gives us that opportunity to actually be participants of our and and holders of our own journey. And though it might be relatively simplistic and to a degree a little bit naive, the vision needs to exist. And then we then start working on the processes to get us to that space. And I think that space has to be driven by us through. And we've got the resources. And then we'll create the demand. By creating the demand, we will be participants and not spectators in the space that we we're part of.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:40

So you as a Zikamai, uh, what are some of the strategies you're taking to implement some of this practically? Practically, yeah, step by step to ensure that uh we are getting there sooner than later. So given now, Gen Z's are not patient with anyone.

SPEAKER_05: 1:39:55

Yeah, so and and the thing about Gen Zs is that um you you really have to talk to them gently.

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:40:01

Um so what what we've done, so the company that I that that that we set up, um CEO, founder, and then there's me. Okay. Um is called Data Sentinels. And Data Sentinels is is focused around analytics, um, AI, and machine and data science. Now what we've done is we went forward and we sent out applications via Instagram, Facebook, and we interviewed over 250 people. Okay. All of Africa. All over Africa. Yeah. And we looked for people with the right level of mindset, the right creativity, the right crit, yeah, essentially. Yeah. And so we want and we are building something that is application built in Africa, yeah. Payment gateways within Africa, yeah, APIs, everything we want our context to be built by the people that we are looking to provide value to. And as a foundation to that means that when somebody in Nigeria, so we got people in Nigeria, Ghana, different countries. Yeah, somebody from Nigeria, when they come and they talk about their problem, yeah, the solution is what we're working on because we are part of them and we are locally based. So you've got Nigerians in Nigeria, Kenyans in Kenya, Kenyans in Ghana. And for me, the for us on a practical basis, it is important to be on the ground, it is important to hire locally, and then it is important to listen to those people on how you can add value in those spaces.

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:41:50

Because what is it, what is a business useful for if you're not gonna add value? And the value that you add is solving problems for people. Yes. And so, me, number one, get people who are who've got grit, and it's gonna take time. Yeah, you're gonna go through a lot of, you're gonna kiss a lot of pigs, frogs. But but at the end of the day, once you once you go through a process, you then streamline your business through remote work and having processes that allow for a culture to exist, even though you're working remotely. Yeah, leveraging all the technology that exists out there. And we were talking about us and the way that we run our podcasts, and you know, you use different tools to be able to do lots of different things. Yeah, and everything is remote. And so maximizing those those tools. Once you've maximized those tools, you have the people who are locally based to try and drive a lot of your processes as well. And and and and that's that's where we are currently within our journey. Um, obviously, a couple of challenges would be around paying salaries and then um rules, compliance regulations that are associated that are very localized in nature. Yeah. But at the end of the day, the first thing and the first step is to have people from their country representing their country.

SPEAKER_02: 1:43:19

Yeah. Do you think the governments are doing enough when it comes to investing in such talent, such opportunities?

SPEAKER_05: 1:43:27

So the one thing that I've that I've experienced is that capital and financing is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks that you will always come across.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:43:40

So how do I have a business and then sustain that business long enough for me to be able to make revenue and working capital so that I can be sustainable, right? And if I'm trying to do it across different spaces, then I'm struggling. And then if I've got power outages, then what? Like if I'm trying to work remotely and that there's no internet, then what? Like all of those things are the bedrock of what limits our ability to work across. And so my answer is that there are some basic necessities that need to exist and need to exist in constant supply. Yeah, electricity and internet. Yes. In this modern world, if you're not with those two things, you are going to disadvantage yourself uh so much and exclude yourself from a competitive standpoint.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:44:33

If if everybody struggles on basic things such as electricity, a lot of people struggle. I mean, in Zimbabwe, we've got blackouts, yeah. Zambia blackouts, South Africa blackouts. Yeah, you've got the persistent problem of electricity. South Africa, they have nuclear energy. Can I choose to not answer that question? I think so.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:04

Moving on swiftly, is that um I honestly, I thought uh we're gonna and I think this is gonna happen. Sorry, I'm um I think this is gonna happen. It might not happen tomorrow, the next day, but the future of Africa is coming together and becoming united. Yeah, you can have these separate, you know, countries that are in, you know, like you know, I'll say counties or yeah, something. But ideally, because even right now with the African trade, all this comesa, East Africa community, yeah, you'll move from here to Tanzania and you'll be frustrated at the airport because people want you to pay custom. Yeah. Yeah. But rather than not telling you in in black and white, like, you know, we're not paid enough. And you're not looking at it that way. So, and essentially, I I pray and I hope and I'm working towards it that we move away from you know scarcity to abundance. Yeah. And the only way to do that is to look at the problem and say, this is a problem. Not because we don't like the government of the day, not because we are against anyone, is because if we did this one right thing the right way, all of us we're gonna progress maybe 100 times than where we are. So even for South Africa, and the reason why I mentioned nuclear energy is because South Africa has always been this progressive country. The reason why they have load shedding so much of it, it's beyond my imagination. And I don't know when you say electricity and internet should be constant, it goes a long way to say how important this is, not only locally, but even for those guys who are working remotely. Yeah. Guess what? Now they're sterling, yeah. And now you've got my question is who who who came up with this sterling? Who is the greatest beneficiary of sterling? Where is these resources going to? You see, so and I'm not against you know us importing some stuff and exporting some stuff. It's just that that market has to be equalized in a way that no one loses. It's not a zero-sum game. Yeah, we can we people can supply people with maize or cones, they can supply us with tobacco and whatever. We can get internet from somewhere else, we can maybe provide content. You know, it becomes an exchange where it's more sustainable. Because over time, that means either one side is consuming too much and remains poor forever, or the other side is supplying too much and maybe they feel the burden that anytime there's a problem, they're always sending aids and feeling like these guys are not doing enough. Yeah. So uh this brings me to another point, which is very important. Do you think now Africa is moving towards where people should focus in more investing rather than giving donor-funded and all this, you know, money that either 70% is used for administration, and if 20% is used for the real job, good enough. But we have seen the disparity in terms of these and the progress. And and this, I'm not talking just about the countries we've been, I'm talking from the Africa perspective, yeah, because that's the only way maybe other people might drive in terms of building businesses and sustaining them.

SPEAKER_05: 1:48:27

So I think um it is probably the most important thing for us to be looking at investment and not necessarily not aid. Yes, aid is the biggest excuse for us not to take accountability for our own problems. And so I go that not only do we need to create an environment that encourages investment, but once the investment is in the country, we then need to maximize it. And so a lot of the time, what you always will hear is that risk investing in Africa carries a risk. And so that risk is not worth me putting that money down. But when we look at EVs and the green economy that is essentially being driven across the world, yeah, suddenly the biggest deposits within the world, or the biggest copper opportunities, as an example, cobalt or lithium, yeah, sit within DRCs, Zambia, Zimbabwe. Gold is a massive in South Africa, you've got Tanzania as well. All of these countries carry a huge amount of minerals that are going to facilitate the global economy associated with electric vehicles, climate change, all those things, right? And so we are working in a world where we are sitting in a gap, in an opportunity where we're trying to transition as a society to include more of these green economies into the energy mix as an example.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:50:10

And so with that transition, it gives us the opportunity to slot ourselves in and to be actually a real player. Yeah, it gives us the negotiation power of you know what? We will for copper as an example, we will produce copper, we'll make a smelter within Country X, yeah, and we will then have an output that then we sell. Value added. Value added. Yeah. And so rather than sending some relative rural, we can do something that then allows for greater, a greater benefit.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:50:47

But the benefits in that largely come in economies of scale. So that's why you find China buys 95% of the world's this and that, because they've got a large demand associated to it. But at the end of the day, if we can create that demand locally, we can we can create a system that allows for growth locally, then we start adding that value. And then now when we talk about investing, we're talking about investing across multiple sectors. We're talking about mining, uh manufacturing, we're talking about agriculture. But we sit in an opportunity right now where we are talking about Bitcoin. We're talking about blockchain, we're talking about AI, we're talking about analytics, we're talking about um the EV, green world. All of these things are windows in which we should be positioning ourselves so that we can say, we are very, we are gonna build competency in this, we're gonna position ourselves in this value chain like this, and we at the end of the day are going to be heard.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:51:54

And we when we say we need investment, it's not a handout just so that we can we can do one or two things. It is it is an investment in order to multiply that money that is going to be invested in that. Yeah, yeah. And so whether that is foreign direct investment from outside countries or outside of Africa, or within Africa itself, investing in longer-term strategic goals and ideas, yeah. Which are sustainable. Which is sustainable as well. Yeah, yeah. And so I think you've got a lot of development banks, African Development Bank, you've got lots of banks that exist, you've got lots of opportunity that is there. We started putting some of the framework to try to remove some of those barriers. And I mean, Kenya removed visas across Africa. Um, and and that then how is that? It's it's actually quite easy. Yeah, it's so you just came in. I you just put something in online, come in. I'm on my way, bah done. Done. Then you get here, you show them, and then they're just scanning you in. And and and the thing is, yes, they'll still go into the records and look at a couple of things. Yeah. Um, there was somebody who overstayed in some other country and they weren't allowed into Kenya. Yeah. So you still have some control on your borders, yeah, but it's not too, it's not just restrictive, unnecessarily so. Yeah. And so I go, that should be the same for people, should be the same for trade. Yeah. And then we need to then solve the problems that were the reasons why we were afraid to put these processes in place. So a lot of the time people want don't want to vis want to put visas because they're like, if I remove the visas, then now all the Zimbabweans will flood into South Africa, and then now the country will be full of crime. But uh, not not everybody wants to go to South Africa as an example. You know, it's just it's it's uh it's it's at the end of the day, it's some of these things are not necessarily they're more emotion-driven rather than practically, yeah. And the value that you gain out of making the change is actually way more than what you're actually afraid of.

SPEAKER_02: 1:54:05

Absolutely. And by the way, I give the shout-out to the current president, uh William Rutto. You know, when he announced this thing, Dr. William Rutto, uh, when he announced this thing, yeah, uh, you know, he has been telling us a lot of things, and then we're like, okay, this guy is lying. He says this tomorrow, he says that you know, there is no consistency, but at least for that one now, I wanted to get first-hand feedback. And now that you gave it, I think uh it's good to give credit where it's due. Yeah, um, yeah, because also I have some people who are saying, okay, as much as things are looking tough, this guy looks like he knows what he's doing. Uh, give him some time, but also don't don't strain us. Like today, there was a finance bill, reject finance bill, abortion. People are not comfortable with the with the laws because you know, bread was in uh you know, on the that finance bill, there was also taxing the existing vehicles every year. So there's there's so much into it. Uh, and maybe from the point of view, is that maybe it's doing this from the situation, the dire situation that we are in. Uh, but we're saying here as young people and people with the good interests of uh Africa, and this is beyond even Kenya, that African leaders you have a huge responsibility of uh moving from the point of where you take loans to build roads. Roads is not an investment. I've never had any road that is an investment, not directly. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And after 10 years, maybe you need a new road, right? And maybe you have not paid the loans. So it's not sustainable. But if you take uh the road in you know, in uh money or you know, yeah, maybe road is a good example. Also take some money to build an industry around that road that will be sustainable over time to pay that road, you know, and repair it and maintain it. And and let's build industries, let's uh you know, educate our our children so that they can offer services across the world and bring that experience back to the country and create jobs and and make it more sustainable over time. Also provide us electricity to have a 24-hour economy, right? But the list goes on on the best investment versus you know bad investments.

SPEAKER_05: 1:56:20

Yeah, yeah. And and but I think a lot of the time, um, what I sometimes feel is that governments try to involve themselves in too many different large-scale projects, in that at times you want the government to just create the environment. Yeah, just create the environment that me as an entrepreneur, I am a young entrepreneur, I am just out of school, I've got all this energy, this, this, these ideas. Give me a tax break associated to me starting up my business. Give me some opportunity associated to internships, and and and and and and at least give me that starting basis. Oh, for scholarships. Something that can allow for me to then be able to turn that back and make that money into more money, solving people's problems. So if if if I go, um, some people just finished university, these university graduates don't have jobs. Now, what do I do with them? If if you can facilitate an environment where they can contribute into solving other problems within industries, and they then gain some experience, they then giving back, by the time you you finish a process, you'll have not only a more skilled workforce, but you will have some output. And and and just looking for creative ways to leverage individuals so that you can build the industries, you can build the small to medium-sized enterprise, you can build the working class essentially, like out of entrepreneurs so that you can actually be gaining more just by the capital that already exists, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:11

Yeah, yeah. I I I agree, but uh you wouldn't tell you did not tell me how you got into Zambia. How I got into Zambia. All right. We we talked about Botswana, Zibamba, but we never got to Zambia.

SPEAKER_05: 1:58:25

How I got to Zambia, so so so and yeah, so I um because that's where now your business, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I always wanted to do mining engineering and civil engineering, and it was a very simple idea. The the the idea was I want to always have a job. Okay, I don't want to be unemployed at any stage in my life. Yeah, and if Africa has got all these people who are gonna need roads to take. I I'll always have a road, I always have there always be a need for road and housing. So if I'm a civil engineer, then I just watched a blast and I was like, yo, that is cool. I was like, What is a blast? Like where you put explosives or detonate or dynamite, uh and then you press a button and everything was poof. And I saw one of those and was like, Is that how we begin mining or who is that guy? Who who pressed that button? And they were like, No, we're a mining engineer. And I said, uh, I wanted to do high school or this at high school. I was like, I want to do civil engineering and mining engineering. Okay. So that's what my like, I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. Okay. So I got to university and and and through university, I then was in class with some people who were already mining engineers. Yes. And and and they were like, apply. I was like, but I'm in the UK. Maybe I first go to like Australia or somewhere before I come back.

SPEAKER_04: 1:59:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 1:59:54

Because for me, it was always in Africa I was gonna be. But they gave me an offer, they gave me an Opportunity and I was like, ah. These are uh fellow students or these were fellow students, but they were more mature students. They were they were working and then they came to do the degree.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:11

But but though you have put it very correctly, because even last time I checked the UK university recruitment was more driven by the companies that are doing already doing mining for some reason. I don't know why they don't teach these these things early. And then they are sponsoring your education, and then you'll come and get a job maybe for some years. If you decide to move, you move. Maybe you can delve into why is that's the case. You can't just you know go directly to it like you did. Not most people actually would do that.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:43

Um, as you continue with your story, don't do it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:00:48

Yeah, so so so at the end of the day, I then what happened was then I then ended up coming into well, they were like, We've got this operation in Zambia. Yeah, I was like, Zambia. I'd never been to Zambia, but I was like, no problem, let's go. Okay, because I'm one for adventure, just like we're gonna be on the border borders later on tonight. Oh, nice. Um, so so what you have the right people on board, yeah, yeah. Um, so so so but but but how I ended up was because it was a young company, it was a company that is um that has got a was growing very fast. Okay, and it was it seemed like a really good challenge. Yeah, give me the opportunity to do different things, and I was like, let's go. So I just got my stuff packed, I did my interviews, like didn't even go to where I was gonna be. And mining is a place that is remote. Yeah, so the remote world is one that does not have a lot of things, yeah. So we land on the runway and we driving and you're seeing and you're looking around, and it's like, so these people are selling underwear on the side of the road. And I'm like, I don't know what I really got myself into, but I've signed up for this. Yeah. And this mine is about uh seven, seven and a half thousand people on the mine site, seven and a half to ten thousand people. Yeah, it's a big operation, and it's uh it's one of the biggest, it's the biggest copper mine in Africa, yeah. Um or was at that time, yeah. And and and that thousands, and I and I get and I start seeing what the mining industry looks like. The reality, the reality, yeah. And so I'm like, my eyes open wide. I'm like, oh so is this what copper, generation of copper looks like? Yeah, you need seven and a half thousand people, you're moving 40 million cubic meters of dirt, and you're producing 250,000 tons of copper as a final product because there's a smelter as well. And so you're looking at this massive machine and they're individuals, and and and the thing is when I say a massive machine, one tire on a truck is about three meters tall. Okay, so one tire, you stand next to it, it is the door is two meters, so it's a meter. Because you have to carry your weights large, large weights. So, in order to be able to carry large weights, you need big, big trucks, yeah. And so the bigger the truck, the bigger the tire, so you can disperse the pressure. Okay, and so that truck, any of those trucks can carry between a hundred tons to three hundred um three hundred and fifty tons. Okay. Now, these numbers are very abstract. So I'm I have to actually think about how how best to to illustrate this point. I can't. It's just it's it's just a monumental, it's a huge, it's a huge um so so so maybe if I do this, um one meter by one meter by one meter. So if I had a block that is one meter, one meter by one meter, right? That block um would weigh approximately let's say two tons. Right. So one block like that would weigh two tons. Yeah. So to get hundred of those blocks, so one meter by one meter by one meter times a hundred is what sits on the back of a truck.

SPEAKER_04: 2:04:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:04:31

So that is a huge truck, yeah, but that's the smallest of the big trucks.

unknown: 2:04:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:04:36

You get up to 350, 380. So it's 380, one meter by one meter blocks that sit there, and they are transported and every day, 24-hour operation. And you put in, and we it was consuming this has not been processed yet.

SPEAKER_02: 2:04:55

No. It is there's a whole industry that is or machinery that is processing this into now pure copper.

SPEAKER_05: 2:05:02

So on the mine itself, and I'll start from the beginning, is that you have to drill a hole, drill a bunch of different holes so that you can understand where the copper sits. And so once you've got an understanding where the copper sits, you then have to extrapolate using a lot of math to say, okay, I've picked up copper here, picked up copper here. Between these two holes, this is the amount of copper that exists from point A to point B. And it's sitting in a 3D space on an XYZ continuation. So it continues, and it might flip, it might twist, it might turn, but it continues. And you use science and geology to interpret what the what it might do between the two points. Okay. And so we now have an ad an idea what's in the ground.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:05:51

You can't see it, but you got an idea through modeling.

SPEAKER_04: 2:05:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:05:54

Now that you've got that, you then now go and drill holes in a very, very tight spacing or uh gaps between the holes. Yeah. And then you put explosives, dynamites. Dynamites. It's not dynamites, but it's dynamites. Let's go with explosives. Let's go for let's go with dynamite. So you put a whole bunch of those there. Then you join them together, you stand far away. Then you press a button, poof, and the whole thing goes off.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:19

So the the the the the mining engineer is the one who presses the button. Why?

SPEAKER_05: 2:06:24

No, because it's not it's not child's play. These are real, these are these are these are proper, these are things, man. These are the same things that you know damage can be caused. 9-11 stuff tapities.

SPEAKER_02: 2:06:39

Okay, this is a bit controversial, but you can you can set up the things that can blow the world, but pressing the button No, but you you okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:06:48

So the reason why side notes. So the reason why it's important for the guy pressing the button to be an expert an expert is because there are a lot of things that could happen at any moment in time. So you could have errors in the block that result in some of the block going off and some of the block not. And then you create a now more dangerous environment because now you don't know what has been exploded and what has not exploded. Even more so is some people might not might not have heard that there's an explosion that's gonna go off. Okay, so then you need to make sure that security and everything. So there's a process that has to go around in safety around that, that ensures that the right person needs to be the one pressing the button. So that is the actual reason.

SPEAKER_02: 2:07:33

That is funny when I think about because if it's pressed by anyone, maybe someone will say, you know, you guys have been pressing it for a long time.

SPEAKER_05: 2:07:40

Then you kill other people, then you kill people, and then you'd be like, how hot could this go? That was a bad idea. Yeah, so so so so once you've done that, you've blown it up, now it's in blocks and like a meter, so it's it's it's it's it's slabs, right? Um, and and and then you put them in the back of a truck. That truck then has to go and put it into uh into a process plant where it moves from let's say 800 to to much, much smaller to dust. And you put chemicals and you mix it and you grind it, you add water. And the whole process now is because copper doesn't just exist as like a copper bar in the ground. Yeah, it will exist in different forms, but it is usually combined with other elements. So the key now within the processing part is to remove or separate those elements from the copper so that you can have up to 90, 95, 99% copper. So you'll be putting chemicals, you'll be putting water, you'll be washing, you'll be doing all sorts of different things so that at the end you've got yourself.

SPEAKER_02: 2:08:46

But let me ask, is there a byproduct of you know this process? Yes. What is that?

SPEAKER_05: 2:08:50

Sulfuric acid is one example of a byproduct. In these mining, you'll end up also with sulfuric acid. Yes, yes. What else? Um, oh, waste. You have a lot of waste. Okay. Um, so you have a lot of waste. Another very beneficial byproduct is gold. Oh, in the process, you might get gold in here. Yes, in the process, you might get gold as well. So gold is usually found with copper. Okay. Because copper similarly looks like refined uh okay.

SPEAKER_02: 2:09:22

The gold is the shiny one.

SPEAKER_05: 2:09:25

So so so at the end of the day, you do get a lot of byproducts. Yeah, and and those byproducts for the most efficient businesses, you look to either get as much of the gold as possible, you look to then use the sulfuric acid as best as possible for other downstream applications, and and so you move on. And and and the thing about people is that, and me being a graduate, you come into a space and you think you know. But the reality is that the actual work of doing work is when you get to learn and you get to know.

SPEAKER_02: 2:10:00

The real experience. The real experience.

SPEAKER_05: 2:10:02

So being on the ground is something that is most cardinal to one's growth, learning experience. And at the end of the day, for me, I felt that if I had that experience before actually going to do a degree as an example, I would have equipped myself with so much, I would have gotten more probably out of my education than if I had just said, you know what, let me go finish school, then come in. Yeah. The idea of giving yourself that exposure to an environment, to a context gives you a really opens your mind out. Yeah. Because the reality of what you learn in the classroom is going to be very different to the reality of what happens on the ground. Yeah. And yeah, go ahead, go ahead. No, so so so for me, one of the things was you I get to this space and I have to stick out as an individual out of 7,500 people. And I don't think I'm a guy who likes attention, but I also don't want to be sidelined. Okay. So we then look at different things and identify that this mine is not really using data. It's generating tons and tons of data. So every single truck, and we had at that point, we had about 56 trucks.

SPEAKER_04: 2:11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:11:22

So 56 trucks are constantly generating data.

SPEAKER_04: 2:11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:11:25

They'll generate the data because it moved from point A to point B, how long it took, and every point is measured in seconds. Yeah. And so every second for this equipment is being measured and what they're doing, how they're doing it, and all that. At the same time, you've got sensors that are sitting on the trucks, and that those sensors are always sending data. And that data is pulsating, it's just pulsing, and it's just being stored in a time series database continuously. Yeah. And at the end of the day, you're generating so much information, then you say thank you and you pocket.

SPEAKER_04: 2:12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:12:00

And the easiest example for me to translate this is when you walk into some buildings, they ask you, please fill the phone, sign here, and put your name and your phone number, and then they put the book in their pocket. Yeah. What's that for? What was the point? What's the point? Yeah. And so for me, a large portion of what the mine as a business was doing was doing what the security guard does. Collects the information, puts it to the side, then don't do anything with it. Yeah. But a business has to make decisions. And a lot of the decisions were being made. Ah, you know, when I was in 1943, last time I saw this, this is what you should do. And the thing is, when you've got so many pieces of equipment, yeah, it's maintenance. Yeah. It's procurement. Yeah. It is efficiencies. It is safety. Yeah. And so all of these things are traces of information, hints to how you could do it better, but you park it and you put it to the side. And for no large costs, but just ambition and vision. Yeah. One should and can actually unlock and unleash a world that you never knew. And so when I look at when we then started, was I'm going to try and make a name for myself. We're going to start generating reports.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:13:18

So you start with, and then it's a mining engineer doing this type of stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:13:22

So we had Excel. And we go, how can we make this work? Then you go, there's VBA. So you now start coding VBA code script and you put the password in cell A, and then you put the list, the mailing list with the names, and the you automate, and you have a desktop, and that desktop runs and it automates reports, and these reports are giving information to people.

SPEAKER_04: 2:13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:13:45

And now suddenly people are getting a whole lot of information. But then the next problem exists. With information, you need to then do something with it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:13:57

Act on it.

SPEAKER_05: 2:13:58

Act on it. Yeah. And that's the worst part of it all. People were always either skeptical of the information. Resistance to change. Resistance to change. Or the information itself had gaps. So the quality of the data wasn't necessarily there because you weren't generating data with the view of making a decision. You're just generating data as a requirement. As a requirement, correct. And it sits there and you just but at the end of the day, when you start looking through it, you then go, but this doesn't make sense. This does not reflect the reality. And now if I'm making a decision, it's something that does not reflect reality, I'm making a bad decision. So you now need to fix the process to allow for data to be captured correctly. Yeah. For data to flow correctly. So that the boot carries meaning and is correct and it's got good quality. But at the end of the day, you then now need to change the mindset of individuals so that you can act on those decisions. And a large portion of the resistance comes because people don't understand. They don't understand what they're looking at. They don't understand how did you get to that point. They look at it as though it is some departure from the reality of what you're doing right now. And and so at the end, what we then had to do was upskill a lot of people. But you then have to create an environment where somebody doesn't feel like the change is a lot. So that the change that exists might be progressive over time, and therefore the person's able to adapt to the change. Or you just rip out what they used to have and give them something new. And you say, from going forward, this will make your life easier, but you don't have this exit this option anymore. And you have a whole lot of problems, heartache, the rest of it. But what happened over the eight years was the entire business transformed the way it ran. The reports became the basis of the start of a conversation. So my metrics look like this. This metric is bad because the trend is wrong. And why? And if I'm gonna make this long-term strategic decision, what does the three years afterwards look like? And how then do I then incorporate the cost benefit into that discussion? And so you now suddenly start to have people who I mean, the mining industry is a very traditional space. Yeah, you then start having very traditional people looking at information and learning how to work in a way that is acclimatized for the modern world and the modern technologies and opportunities that exist. Yeah. And I don't think that is that is um, it's it's a far separation for a lot of businesses at a very at a relatively low entry point. And I mean, I I talk about it, I'm a mining engineer. I don't know anything about VBA, or I didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 2:16:52

Yeah, but you think out of that curiosity, actually, you you had to learn. I have to know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:16:57

And and and and there's a portion of it that had curiosity, but there was also a portion that was about survival.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17:02

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:17:03

I I wanted to stand out amongst a whole bunch of people.

SPEAKER_02: 2:17:06

So I have You've probably been doing this for over 40 years plus, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05: 2:17:10

And I have to convince them, yeah. And the thing is, they're not shy, they'll tell you to shove it where it should be shoved because you are as old as he's been working. Yeah, and so you're like, who are you to tell me all this? You're useless, not then. That's why you're here. That's why you're here. Yeah, so these are the same things that took you to school, and I'll be like, but this is all unnecessary violence on a Monday. Yeah, I'm just trying to get to the same outcome that you are, yeah. And that also then falls into the softer skills is how you talk to people, how you work with people, how you then gain the perspective of another individual so that when you present to them, when you talk to them, when you approach them with a solution, you're you're approaching them from the context that they live in. They live in a world where the struggle of getting it right and doing something comes with a fear of being replaced.

SPEAKER_04: 2:18:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:18:03

And so you have to have a little bit of empathy, understanding, but at the same time, you have to know what their problem is so that you can actually solve it. And if they're solving somebody's problem, then you're more likely to get that change. And so we eight years and really just running different types of programs, different types of um implementations of technology analytics. And so then we started to get now into a space where we're looking at um how do we leverage data science and machine learning and the rest of it. And so I was like, I know we're mine, but we're gonna hire a data scientist. And they're like, What's a data scientist? He's a guy who's really smart, does statistics, and at the end of the day, you won't understand that. And at the end of the day, you won't understand the thing he says, but it's get it job done. And and and so we hire, we look, we interview a whole bunch of people, and I go, and I'm like, so I'm gonna be having a data scientist alongside the developers, alongside my engineers. I'm gonna have to actually level up. Otherwise, I'm gonna look like the fool trying to try to know you're wrong. Yeah, so so so that's when I sort of put my foot, put my hand up, and I said, I believe the space that we need to go to is um is within technology. I need to upskill myself. And so I put a value proposition in front of the company and um and and and I was able to do um the CTO, the chief transformation officer program out of the University of Berkeley. And I said to them, I'm not here to try to be good. I want to be sitting with the best. And so I want to look at one of the most leading universities out there around this. And so you go, you I get there, and we do a whole bunch of courses over a course of a year and a half. And it was that in person or online? So um we had uh one week, two weeks in person, two weeks in person. Okay, but the rest of it was online. Yeah, but you do assignments together, you do engagements in WhatsApp, you had groups and clusters that you did work with, and so you get to know a lot of the people within the team. And you had uh directors from Snowflake, you had the guy who's in charge of um Europe for Azure, and you had a whole bunch of people redoing the entire healthcare uh black-end services, um, and a suite of different people. You get Pinterest CTO come, we had the Uber CTO come as well. So you get to talk to a lot of different people and you get this experience that is like, okay, this is impressive because these are the things I read about and see on TV. But the reality became or what I felt was that the peers that I had were the were the real MVPs because they had these experiences and I spent so much time. Yeah, but the gap between what I'm trying to do and what they're doing is not necessarily miles apart. Yeah, I'm sitting in a room, yeah, and like I said, I I like to stand out. I don't like attention, yeah, but I like to stand out. So any opportunity I get, my hands up, bah, and I'm talking, and I'm and so then people are like this guy in mining is not even in the he's not an IT person, yeah. He's just a guy who looks to solve problems, but I am trying to drive a lot of the conversations that we're having and really trying to challenge thinking that other people have. And at the end of the day, we then also have discussions around the metaverse, web 3. Um, and the room is actually an older room. So I'm the youngest in the room, yeah, and a lot of the people are sitting 45 plus years, yeah. And they're like, Yeah, dude, the metaverse, sign me out because I don't I don't understand this stuff. Yeah, because my brain has to translate, it has to go like this in a the reality of the world, and then it translates into a digital space. And so, what what is the metaverse? Why why does it carry so much? I I don't really understand, but I know it's the next thing, but why is it important? Why is it important? I can't. And and the reality, in my view, yeah, they then looked at me. I'm like, guys, I'm not that young. Yeah, so I also don't really understand. But yeah, the reality of that was the need for a multi-generational learning experience and that I can learn from somebody who's 20. Because the person who's 20 in 10 years will be 13, he'll be a client of mine. Yeah, and if I'm trying to hit a boxer where he stands in this moment, I will miss him because I should be hitting a boxer in the moment that he will be in. Yes. And so I'll use this analogy. So Japan. Japan way back wanted a company within Japan wanted to introduce coffee. Okay. The Japanese, they came, they marketed, they tried everything. The Japanese weren't interested, they have a very strong tea culture. And they said, no, thank you to this. But the the company then says, you know what? Let's let's change our approach. Let's make sweets. Let's make chocolate. Yeah. But we'll make chocolates with coffee flavor.

SPEAKER_04: 2:24:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_05: 2:24:04

And these these sweets became a hit amongst the youth. Okay. And so the youth started to develop the palate for coffee. Because the older people didn't have that palate. They they were like, this is bitter. But the youth at a younger age could develop those. So they developed that palate, and now the Japanese coffee industry is valued at$1.2 billion. Okay. 15 years later.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 2:24:33

And so the idea is that if we are looking at today's problems and we're solving today's problems with today's technologies and today's mindset and today's thinking, we're not doing anything for our future. Absolutely. We should be thinking, what does 2050 look like? Yes. And how do I then create something that will get me hitting the problems of 2050? Not I get to 2050 now, I'm like, ah, there's this problem now. It'd be too late. It's a bit too late. Exactly. And so the the thinking about the vision, about the the patience, the longevity, those are the things now that when I listened to when I when we're sitting in California, and it's like the metaverse, and I'm looking, we're looking around in the room, and we're like, all the people are coming up are old, all the people who are in the room are old. Yeah. And they're like, this is this is not progressive. This is not trying to hit the future where it is. We need to have younger people participating in everything that we do. Yes. Whether it's policy making, whether it is businesses, whether it is government, whatever it is, younger people should be sitting at those tables. Yeah. And they should be giving their perspectives with no shame, no, but they should be encouraged to participate. Because if we don't, we will be making dinosaurs. Dinosaurs will be making dinosaurs. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And so that's how I that's how I view it. And that was my experience within Berkeley that then brought me back. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to go on this digital journey and really trying to restructure the way that we gather information, clean information, and have a pipeline that becomes more sustainable as the business. Yeah. Because these are mining engineers who are doing IT stuff. It did not look pretty. And then mining engineers that blow things up. It's just not that. So we then just we then started restructuring and trying to move also to the cloud, trying to leverage um data lakes and Azure services. And we we chose our stack, a tech stack to be Microsoft. And and really just trying to push barriers within that. And within that journey, you then you then realize that the world has a lot more to offer. And if you don't start utilizing some of these tools, you become obsolete.

SPEAKER_02: 2:27:05

And uh your goal is impacting one million African lives by 2026. The reason why I focus on this, I had a friend back in 2015 from uh from a country in uh in the West Africa. Maybe it's Sierra Leone or Senegal or something. Was he a friend or is he just one of those people? He's a guy I met in Nairobi. Okay. Because if I worked with him, I consider him a friend. And I'm your friend too, so it's fine. I exist. So he also had this vision. He went to a yearly program, uh, very active in that program. He also studied abroad, uh, and uh he had the same goal. But my question even then was it's 2026, right? Yeah, uh and it's like two years from now or less. One and one year and a few months. That's correct. Are you almost there? No. Uh but how am I gonna do it? How are you gonna do it by 2026?

SPEAKER_05: 2:28:10

Okay, it's okay the the journey, and I wanna start with why why we believe that is possible. Yeah, so um the founder and CEO of Daters and Mills, uh Nono Bukiti, she went forward and said within Zambia, she said she was gonna train up 200 people in two years. And she set that up and she trained 200 people in the process. She saved 10 million dollars. Yeah, how did she save 10 million dollars? She woke up one day and said, You know what? You, sir, who runs the mind, I'm gonna save you 10 million dollars. Okay, and she walked down and was like, damn it, how am I gonna do that? That's a big number. Yeah, but the fact that she had a number that she was targeting meant that the work that she then needed to do was to leverage the 200 people that she had in order to be able to maximize the the savings that she gets. Yeah, and so yeah, that then leads me now to where we are as a transformational leader is that we are currently in the process of setting up the foundation that will be able to allow us to leverage groups of individuals in Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Botswana, South Africa, Zambia. And the idea is that we want to empower people to be business owners in a model that allows for people to then facilitate transformative experiences to people, but also develop their own business and generate their own income. And a large portion of that is the idea or centered around that is the idea of Ubuntu. I am because you are. And that portion of the discussion requires every individual, including people who work for us, to do community engagement work. And so once we get to that point, we intend within a relatively short period of time to be able to start leveraging groups and pockets and tribes of individuals within the community works that they're doing across multiple countries across Africa. And if I have 10 people doing 10 hours, impacting 10 people doing 10 hours or impact 10 people. The ripple effect. The ripple effect can get us beyond 10, can get us beyond a million people. In a yeah. In a year. Thank you. So right now the a lot of the groundwork is to really get ourselves the foundation set up, get the piping done, and to really start to propel within the second half, within this quarter, really start propelling. And I believe you'll see a lot of that sitting in Kenya with Transformation Leader, T4L, as well as the data signals. So watch the space. I'm not here just to uh I didn't come all this way to talk to you. So I'm hoping that anything that we're doing now is our number one aim is to give back, to be able to empower, to be able to transform and to make this sustainable. The impact that you and I have by having this discussion should not end just because it went through one year and the other year. No. It should empower, encourage somebody to do the next step. And then it should then result in something. And we believe that what we have, we've seen it work, and we are gonna be able to impact people's lives in a way that allows for everybody to also be to stand up and be counted.

SPEAKER_04: 2:32:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:32:22

I agree with you, and uh you're in the right uh place. And I'm glad you didn't come all the way to talk to me for two reasons. For two reasons. One is because Africa Stalking empowering developers across Africa doing an amazing job at it. Uh and at Impact Masters, you're disrupting the status quo. And uh, we are also doing an amazing job. One of those is this podcast in collaboration with Africa Stalking. And uh I believe Africans are very, very smart, super smart, but they never have a platform. And when I hear uh a young guy like you, among as many others, who are African, and they are doing something about creating those platforms, I I thank God, but also I'm super proud that there is a future and a better future for Africa. Mine is just to encourage you that to keep update with the team. Of course, I know you're representing a huge team behind you, uh, but also again to say this is just the start of the many. Yeah. So when we come to Zambia, we'll talk more. When you come here, let me know. Now we know each other. Now we know each other. I just knew Paul.

SPEAKER_05: 2:33:35

Now we know each other. But but you know, I want to actually go a bit further than that. Yeah. When when you when you talk about the um 160 developers, 100 almost now 170,000 developers. 170,000 developers. So so so so when you talk about developers, yeah, in that in that what I hear is there's an opportunity to collaborate.

SPEAKER_04: 2:33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 2:33:57

When I sit here, we have this discussion. Yeah, I want to hear your story on my podcast.

SPEAKER_03: 2:34:02

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05: 2:34:03

So it's it's like at what point I don't want to wait for you to get to Zambia. I want to know before I leave this studio, I want to know. So MK, he sounds like a smart guy. He looks like he's got a mission and a vision, and he's got sponsors, and and and and how can we create value? How can we leverage each other's spaces, thinking, mindsets, everything, experiences to complement and then create value onto a table that really started off as a podcast, but rather materialized into something meaningful. Absolutely. So I'm not gonna manage to impact a million people. I can tell you that. Yeah, if I don't take every opportunity that comes your way to understand what you're doing, yeah, and to be a part of what you're doing. Yeah, and so that is where I sit with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 2:35:03

Do you have time?

SPEAKER_05: 2:35:05

No, look, I I I I'm I'm I'm I'm done. I'm done talking. So so I'm I'm actually a bit hungry, if I'm gonna be honest. That's the only thing. I'm actually a bit hungry, and I was actually hoping to have some alcohol in me by now. But uh look, this has been really exciting nonetheless. Uh, you're taking away from my border border experience and me saying no, Border Border is a 24-hour economy. You guys didn't uh you know no, but I bought a my my I'm referencing Border Border because they had like a whole night plan. They were like, so we'll be done with the podcast by eight, and then after eight, we'll do and I was like, my guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:35:42

Life is not what you plan, yeah. Indeed.

SPEAKER_05: 2:35:44

But but anyways, it's looking. It's been it's been wonderful experience for me in turn in terms of this podcast. Yeah, um, the the the the the biggest thing at least is is around how do we grow, support each other, give each other platforms, yeah, but then solve practical problems that are happening within the continent.

SPEAKER_02: 2:36:01

Yeah, let me give you a rundown. Yeah, no, go for it. Uh so for us, uh, we are more practical than Babu. I learned to speak maybe with people maybe like 10 years ago when I realized that I have to build sustainable communities across Africa. And this is learning to speak with people who are introverts, who are developers again. So you can you I'm still learning, to be honest, and it took a lot of courage even to be a host of this podcast because you see you meet people like you are fluent, you know, articulate and all that, and so many others who even have accents, and you're like, but you know what? I'm doing so far so good. But go ahead. I wanted to say something.

SPEAKER_05: 2:36:47

So when I I started the podcast because yeah, I am not an articulate speaker, yeah. My parents, when they heard it, they were like, so you're not eating your words, you're actually audible, and and I'm like, yeah, I'm just doing this because um I need to be able to talk, and this is the skill that I'm practicing as I do this. So I don't think don't look at me as a good example. I'm I'm like, I'm struggling my way through this current podcast, guys.

SPEAKER_02: 2:37:21

Guys, listen to us. If you really wanna have that uh queen's accent, start a podcast. You got it from here, but anyway, back to the back to the point. So uh when we go to a country, and thanks to Africa Stalking, um, I was just doing it in Kenya, and I was like, how how is this gonna scale? So at you know at some point, even I tried to start at least East Africa and scale, uh, but it was so slow. Then I joined East uh Africa Stalking uh now three years ago, and now I was able to reach out to different regions across Africa, and uh so the plan is that when we go to a market and we won't even scale that further, we do a hackathon whereby you get to build less talk more code. Uh we meet some of the movers and shakers in that market, yeah, and there are two things that we do. We get to listen what the impact of our product, which is uh assessing telcos solutions through APIs, yeah, what is doing for that market in different uh sectors. Right now we're supporting over 18 sectors and counting. Uh may it be clean energy, may it be you know communication marketing, there is a you know um oil and gas, there is a you know, a portfolio of uh, you know, those sectors. Then we are able to tell the story either through customer story, just a three-minute video of showcasing what you are doing in that market, uh, and also how the API is powering that. But also we take some time and sit down with people like you, people who have innovation spaces, people who are building developer communities, and have a podcast. And these more lengthy, just to articulate a couple of things. One is that to show that journey, it's not just because it's you, uh, you know, it just happened. No, there was a process, there were some different things that actually that shaped you. You went to UK, but you felt like you should come back home. What castigated that? What are those experiences? And this is just to encourage also the generation that will come 100 years when we are long gone, or maybe 200 years when we are long gone, and our history is not captured anywhere as we found it. For us, actually, if you think about it, there's no uh the history that is 200, 300 years ago that we can go and say Africans were like this 300 years ago. Uh, but also more so to tell how we're building tech ecosystems so that the mistakes that you make in the next maybe 20 years or 50 years to come, uh, you know, your grandkid will not come and start saying, you know, I need to learn afresh. Watch uh, you know, this podcast among as many other documentation you'll create over time to be able to say, if uh Zika Mai did this and these were the learnings, I don't need to start from there. I can start maybe 10 steps ahead. And that actually propels us closer to where we want to be. Uh, but the realistic point that is so strong and that we keep insisting on these engagements is whereby we should not be at the mercy of leadership of the day. We should be at the mercy of our intellectual and the solution we're able to build for brothers and sisters across the globe. Yeah, and that's enough addressable market to change the dynamics of so many of us that is at least at the mercy of the Piper. So that's that's where we are basically. And uh right now, as we speak, I think uh my chiefs here and myself will exchange notes on how we can be able to work together practically, yeah. Uh both in Zambia, maybe even in Botswana or even Mozambica, actually. I know they speak Portuguese, but we have to learn. Uh, and also Zibamboy in South Africa. Because already we have a market in uh Zambia. We have even an employee there, we have someone in South Africa, Botswana, and they are looking really, really good in Malawi. So there's an opportunity there that we can work together. But Kenya is where we have really uh you know made most of this because also we are our decorator is in Kenya. Uh, but we are always looking outward to see if we align and uh the mission, you know, aligns, we should be able to do some of these things. Uh so that's something we'll discuss off the podcast and how to go about it. But uh we welcome anyone who is listening to this. Uh, it may be African company or foreign, we don't care. As long as you are, you know, what you want to do is really clear and it has value for the general community, it serves the Ubuntu. We are your people. And we have really, really great minds in in what we do. So it's not we're not coming here for good enough. We are really excellent. And uh I say this with all humility. Uh, so uh I would encourage anyone. Also, we have a summit, yearly summit. Okay. Uh, our first one was last year, and uh, we try to also showcase some of the technology. You could be actually one of the speakers there to showcase how you use data to make decisions and how that has changed over time to even showcase other miners how to do it. When? Uh, October. October? Yes, October. I have to tell you. We'll work on the details. Yeah, so let's do that. Let's do that. Um, a lot of opportunities. We also do mini summits. Yeah, uh, one of the key markets that we wanted to go this year, uh yet to be confirmed, is Southern Africa. Yeah, and that includes Zambia. So there are a couple of things that we could do together. But before we start uh pitching uh uh five years strategy, I would love you guys uh if you can maybe encourage our viewers to subscribe, uh, both in your native language and the Queen's language, whichever it is. If uh you're not okay with that, that's fine. The English language is fine. Yeah, I think uh you are being shown the camera that you're gonna do that too. Uh what else is he supposed to do? Parting shots, yes. So you can start with parting shots, or you can you can say what is a parting shot?

SPEAKER_05: 2:43:31

Just you know just say say a couple of things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:43:33

Like, you know, summary of uh you know, encouraging guys to you know, yeah, and then you know, subscription. And uh, I should look at that camera, of course, after you.

SPEAKER_05: 2:43:45

All right, so for me, being here in Kenya is absolutely amazing, and Nairobi is the hustle and bustle of where tech innovation is within Africa across Africa. And so, what better thing to do than to actually be here in Nairobi? And so for me, I'm actually thankful, grateful for MK hosting me on this on the podcast. The discussions that we had actually spread across lots of different things. And the beauty about what we've talked about, I think allowed for me to share some of the experiences that I've had through my life, but how they also reflect on the future and the vision that I see within Africa. And within Africa, what I see personally is a collaborative space where we can create value across multiple different sectors and across multiple different countries. And what does that require? It requires each individual to play their part. And more so than that, is also for us to be able to collaborate to make sure that we are maximizing the value that exists amongst us. I think we've got a lot of opportunities amongst us to be able to do a lot of great things. And we just need to stand up and be counted. And within these discussions like this, this is the space where we give ourselves not only the encouragement, but the ideas, but also the networks to get to that space that we all hope to get to. Have that vision and that persistence to get things practically done to get to a better continent all in all. And it's about the tribe and the community, and we're doing it together. So, more than anything, I'd love to thank you all for really putting this all together for for us. And from data sentinels, from Transformation Leader, we not only think that this is the start of a long journey, but it's one that we want to really start to challenge each other because we've got a million lives to to change, to transform, and we've got a continent to disrupt. And we're only going to be able to do it if we do it together. So thank you so much for having me. And when when I talk about when we look at the different platforms that you can reach us, it's uh LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and the handle will be Data Sentinels and um Transformational Leader. So please follow us, like and subscribe, not only to this podcast, but to the Shameless Podcast, which is brought to you by Transformation Leader as well as Transformation Leader and Data Sentinels. So there's plenty more where this has come from, and I think you haven't seen The Last of Us, not only here in Kenya, but also um in different areas and corners of Africa. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 2:46:32

Very nice, very nice. That's amazing. So uh that has been uh Zikamai Ganga Yinzo. Uh chief mining engineer at Fast Quantum Mine Rose. You know, as as I've made it uh a habit nowadays to conclude with uh African proverbs. Say that I don't know how to put the accent on the Zambian language. I'm just gonna use Zambi for now, but uh there's one here, Omubala Kale Ulaya Filisha. And Hali beginning is half the battle. I don't know if I said it that right. Uh people from uh these uh Zambian proverbs, Bemba Bemba. They can correct me. Uh but that's the reason when I come to Zambia, maybe I learn a few uh way of saying it. Um we'll take care of it. Yeah, I mean, uh the reason why to visit more African countries, Ethiopian Airlines. I don't know why you should not uh in Kenya Airways, you should not you know work on those pricings.

SPEAKER_05: 2:47:41

I mean, there's a there's a direct flight from here to Lusaka. Yeah, Kenya Airways could probably give you a discounted flight.

SPEAKER_02: 2:47:47

Yeah, yeah. I mean they could sponsor the crew, uh indeed, you know. Yeah, I don't know which hotel has uh some hosting there. You know, these things could work out if we sometimes you speak it into existence.

SPEAKER_05: 2:48:02

So I'm looking forward to you joining us on the free Kenya Airways stream, yeah, and and and and sponsored by somebody.

SPEAKER_02: 2:48:10

Uh from your mouth to God's ears, or to Kenya Airways' ears, anyways. So this has been Impact Masters Podcasts disrupting the status quo. Uh, we are available on all podcast uh channels, including YouTube, hi hat radio. I heard Google Nice closing down and moving everything to YouTube. So if you are there, also check us on YouTube podcasts, Amazon Music, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all the channels that you think about our podcasts. If you go and search Impact Masters Podcast or Africa's Talking Retro Podcast, you'll get us there. So, regardless of your channel, you'll get us there. Uh, something else I needed to mention here is that thank you so much uh for what over 1,000 downloads. That's very interesting because, man, we do like four hours kind of podcasts. You guys have been very loyal. There are some guys I see every time we publish something, they're there. So thank you so much. Uh, and uh always being there for us, sharing with your friends. Um yeah, I don't know how to thank you. Maybe we should have a budget to send even airtime or something. Uh, you know, just saying thank you. Uh, we'll find a way. We'll find our way, maybe in the near future, to just appreciate your support and everything. And by the way, for sure, when we start making money, I'm I'll make sure 50% goes to our listeners and uh also start some foundational kind of projects. Now we have another podcast in the house. Now this is the second or third podcast in the house. Uh, some of the guys I've hosted have gone ahead and started podcasts. So the repo effect the Ubuntu is working.

SPEAKER_07: 2:49:53

It's working.

SPEAKER_02: 2:49:54

Until next time, this is Michael Kimadi or MK if you want. And uh, I would like to wish you a wonderful, wonderful morning, evening, uh, lunchtime. Whenever time you listen to us, I want to wish you all the best and also to encourage you to be uh guided by Ubuntu principle.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50:17

And that's a wrap on today's episode of Impact Masters. Thank you for tuning in and sharing this space of growth and empowerment with us. Remember, every step you take has the potential to create an impact. Keep exploring, keep questioning, keep implementing, and most importantly, keep mastering your impact. Remember to check us out on all platforms by searching for Impact Masters. Subscribe, follow, and share. www.impactmasters.io. See you in the next one.