The Big Score Book Review: What Silicon Valley Got Right And Africa Can Adapt

We record live from Mombasa and pull apart the real origins of Silicon Valley to challenge how African startups copy business models, funding myths, and “innovation” aesthetics. We connect The Big Score to practical moves founders, companies, universities, and governments can make to build ecosystems that compound instead of stalling.
• Silicon Valley’s early drivers: semiconductors, defense research, concentrated capability
• Government as the first big customer and why that changes “freemium” economics
• Why copying US go-to-market patterns can break African startups
• Building software plus services and software plus training for local readiness
• Universities as pipelines for research, apprenticeships, and industry linkage
• Fixing human capital by revisiting education from first principles
• Fairchild lineage as a model for talent mobility and founder “mafias”
• Jealousy and gatekeeping as ecosystem bottlenecks
• Venture capital as a follower that amplifies proven innovation
• Culture as invisible infrastructure: failure tolerance, open networks, velocity
• Collision spaces, events, and community as distribution and trust engines
• 24-hour government and operational seriousness as a development lever
• Practical ways to scale across Africa via partnerships and acquisitions
Feel free to reach us out through info at impactmasters dot com or marketing at africastalking dot com
Check out Africa’s Talking at africastalking dot com
And Impact Masters at impactmasters dot io

Transcript

Collaboration And Learning From Failure

SPEAKER_01 0:03

And within Africa, what I see personally is a collaborative space where we can create value across multiple different sectors and across multiple different countries. And what does that require? It requires each individual to play their part. And more so than that is also for us to be able to collaborate to make sure that we are maximizing the value that exists amongst us.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

A lot of big founders here and a lot of developers here can attest that sometimes we build MVPs for even four months and six months, only to put it in the market and realize it's not going to work. People don't like it, it can't do anything. And then you have to build again for six months before you know it does one year. The best gift you can give to a human being is a chance.

SPEAKER_06 0:46

Yeah, exactly. A child that does not cry will die in the carrier.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

There are too many problems in the world for us not to be the solutions to them. There are too many of us pointing fingers, looking for other people to solve for things that we know innately. We have a piece of the puzzle for you. Think about the failures you've had in your life. Don't you learn more from failure than you do from success? I have.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Absolutely, that's where the biggest lessons are.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

Alright, alright. Wonderful.

Welcome From Mombasa And Show Setup

SPEAKER_06 1:24

It's another day joining you live from Mombasa, the coastal region of Kenya. And I just want to welcome you to this live recording, live podcast with my co-host you'll be seeing shortly. And uh, this is Impact Masters podcasts where we dissect the status quo, ensuring that we're bringing you stories as well as the recordings, which changes the mold, and providing some expertise in developer experience, developer relations, entertainment, design, marketing, as well as tech ecosystem and scalable systems. Without further ado, I just want to welcome you here and uh feel free to interact with us in the comment. We'll respond to any feedback or any comments that we see, and you're welcome. So, without further ado, I just want to welcome uh my co-hosts, Graham Wanga himself. He can uh introduce himself.

Africa’s Talking And The API Layer

SPEAKER_06 2:24

Hi, Graham. Hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_07 2:26

So, my name is Graham. Yep. Uh from Africa Stalking. I work in the marketing and partnerships team. Africa Stalking, if you're hearing about it for the first time, we provide a telco platform as a service, as well as a communication platform as a service, integrating at least 80 telcos in Africa with a presence in 23 markets and providing businesses, developers, startups with one interface to interact with uh telco resources. Uh, since we are an API business, we may as well add to that over time. So you can look out for other API resources that are in addition to telco services. We've done payments in some countries. Cloud is coming, aggregated cloud, which means you can integrate with whichever provider you love, and many more. Yeah, so great to be in the great city of Mombas.

SPEAKER_06 3:27

Yeah, wonderful. I mean, today we have a really interesting podcast for you, and going forward, we're gonna be bringing some uh interesting discussion.

The Big Score And Kenya’s Ecosystem

SPEAKER_06 3:35

And we're gonna discuss about the big score by Mark Mellon or Malone or Graham Malone. Malone depends on where you come from. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But uh it's it's a very interesting book talking about the Silicon Valley from the early days to the current state. Yes, and we'll be talking about how it has impacted Silicon Valley, the lessons that could be learned there, the technical, you know, the tech ecosystem, the silicon savanna, as well as uh Mombasa tech ecosystem. So Kenya has uh really interesting tech ecosystem coming up. There's Nairobi, of course, which is leading. Then we have Mombasa, and then we have Kisomo. And of course, I hear other places like El Doretta coming up, uh, you know, there's uh Nakuru, Nakuru, Kisi, uh and so on. And it's a good thing to see because area has always been there somewhere. Yeah, yeah, Dikut. You can't you can't mention uh, you know, tech uh without mentioning Dikut, Dikut is Denon Kemati University of Technology, yeah, uh, where the semiconductors uh will be created. And it's interesting to see even uh recently there was a rare mineral discovery in Murima. Yeah, uh, and there's cobalt discovery in Embu. Yes, uh, so it Kenya is becoming uh a leader in so many aspects, and even Africa at large. And it's good to discuss some of these uh lessons from uh you know the book. Yes.

Silicon Valley Origins And Government Demand

SPEAKER_06 5:01

One of the key things that I'm keen on uh, you know, is the clarification from the big score. Okay, is that Silicon Valley didn't begin its life as a polished innovation district. It started as an aggregation of engineers confronting a resolved scientific problems, uh the semiconductors, microelectronics, and defense-driven research. And and the interesting aspect, Graham, that uh people don't know is that most of the biggest customers of the big tech are always the governments, always. Definitely, always even the big cloud providers. They are the guys with the luxury of adopting new tech and and and and you know testing it, ensuring that uh, you know, it works, taking their time. Yeah. So I think there's a lot to learn there even from the Africa perspective, Kenya perspective, whereby you know, governments could actually start checking out tech system. And and yesterday was a very the day before yesterday, we went to this innovation space and and we found some guys who will be participating in NIS ACADNO. Yes, which took me aback a bit, like, oh wow, okay, interesting. Yes, will this just end up with in a job placement and that's it? Or uh will there be some adoption of the innovation? So government is big.

SPEAKER_05 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:16

What what do you think that we could do as a continent to really front? Is it policy, is it laws, is it just pitching to the government more? Yeah. I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_07 6:28

You know, the first problem that uh you realize is when you when you look at the big tech and the amount of business they are doing with uh government, you realize that we already began in the wrong footing. Because if you are, for example, a cloud provider and I don't know, a sizable chunk of your money is being generated by a government contract, a defense contract.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:56

And then, you know, you provide maybe some of your services on a free to use basis, and then you know, have a startup in Africa that takes that model and starts to provide a software on a free-to-use basis, already they are going to fail. You see the problem here, they are going to fail because the providers giving you free-to-use basis software, they already got their money covered. So you think uh it's a premium premium model, but already there's someone paying the check. Of course, it doesn't work like that. Yeah, so he explains why so many startups never take off. Yeah, they begin with that. You'd rather say, I have 100 customers. If you don't want my business, go away.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:43

But to get to that point, you have to have first looked at what actually happened in Silicon Valley.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:49

Which is you build a product, you even go and have a negotiated contract with the government, you even pay for lobbyists to make sure that your business is incorporated in government processes. Yeah. And then you have free cash flow, or you have a 400 million dollar grant, which you now use to implement your business within government. Yes. You can now turn around and say any early subscribers. Yes. Because you're uh inadvantably, your big business is B2B. But everyone is seeing you are a B2C. Yes. So they are thinking if I start my startup and copy X or Y or Z, I will have the money just like these guys. Yes. Only to realize that maybe some of these businesses have never even made a profit in Africa. It's basically a profit in Europe and the US. Why? Because of government contracts. But they won't tell you that. They'll be you'll just be seeing things happen and happen. This is a model they use. Which starts to explain even their route to market. I ever tried to wonder why these guys are not interested in executing this or executing that. They know because even if they execute it, the winning strategy is to keep going to the government because this will never make them demand even to be sustainable. You see? Yes. Now, if you remove that reality from the startup ecosystem in Africa, it explains so much why the businesses never scale, businesses never grow, businesses die overnight because of radical changes in policy. You see. So that's the first deception.

SPEAKER_06 9:30

Rather ecosystems copy from Silicon Valley. Copy paste. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:35

Even China.

SPEAKER_06 9:36

The biggest consumer is the that way.

SPEAKER_07 9:40

You'll be told you're running a platform. This platform must be hosted in China, must do this and this, must comply with this, must comply with this. But he has 50 million dollars.

SPEAKER_08 9:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 9:50

See? Suddenly. And if you look at the pipeline, the same thing. All the people who went to study in China, in the US, uh in tech, I I struggle today to think of any remaining in the US. Especially now with the big. In fact, I think their policies being set up so that they don't leave. Yes. They have incentives to stay. But the incentives are bigger.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Back home.

SPEAKER_07 10:15

Back home.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:16

Yeah. So I think just to bring it up, the map that's my first point, I think, around this ecosystem.

Rethinking Freemium And Selling Services

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:22

We need to recalibrate our eyes. What are you seeing? And what business are you building? And should you even be thinking of freemium? Another thing in Africa, should you even be selling a software service alone? Should you add some commodities or some extra services layer on top?

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 10:41

Because you could be selling something to people who uh need education. Yes. So they won't just put their credit card and use your software platform. They need education. They need cash. They need to give you cash. Suddenly, you can't just run a purely software business. You may have to have software plus services. Exactly. Software plus training. Yes. And nothing stops you from making money from the training. Yes. Yeah. So Africa's value chains, I think I've been skewed because you just thought it always just works like that in the US.

SPEAKER_06 11:14

Yeah. Exactly. And this is a structural pattern that we can even establish from this conversation.

Universities As Pipeline Not Ceremony

SPEAKER_06 11:20

Analysis ecosystem grow around problem density, not just branding. And before the valley became the valley, innovation was attracted to complexity, not amenities. And all of the key institutions that really has played a big part in Stanford's role. You know, it wasn't just symbolic, it created technical legislation and continuity, creating some pipeline. Because if you think about most of the serious innovation that are used world over, they have the root of, you know, expertise from Stanford. Okay. And remember, these are private investing institutions, rather. Of course, there's a Berkeley, there is a University of California, and many more. But Stanford stands out for so many innovators. Do you think uh we we are really investing in our institutions to make sure that you know the pipeline is there? And I'm uh I'm gonna share a bit about myself uh and where you know I've interacted with these institutions. There is the University of Nairobi, there's uh Kenyatta University, there's JECWA, there's Dekut. And some of the professors there are well educated. Well, most of the well-educated uh in the world, I would say that. From MIT, from Yale, uh from Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, and so on and so forth. Uh but as recent as this year, lecturers had to stay at home for like, you know, a few months, three months, uh, or I don't know, more than that, just because they were not well compensated. Whereas if you compare that with Stanford, where lecturers are co-founders, they are they are they are the directors, they are board of, you know, they their research is consumed. Yes. Whereas the students actually get real-time internship and apprenticeship in these companies. By the time they graduate, they have they have a footing in the industry and they know what is required of them.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:06

As opposed to just graduates who just celebrate the graduation and then they start tarmacking looking for a job, yes, which is not sustainable. So I think there's something that can be looked then, can be learned uh to build a sustainable ecosystem.

SPEAKER_07 13:19

A lot. So, first I think you have to go. You know, when we did the engineering classes, used to be told derive from first principles. Maybe even in the computer science and engineering, you remember these things. Yes. For you to achieve an answer, you must derive from first principles. Yes. So the problem I think for I can look at it from two sides. One, the funding of research and education institutions as part B. Part A is the purpose of those institutions. Yes. So it's some research needs to be done there, but earlier in the beginning of education, maybe in the late 18th century, 19th century, the Victorian era. It's called the Victorian era, actually. The Victorian era was an era of great British industry. Uh, where you know they they invented a couple of things, I don't remember very well, but they invented quite a lot of things, the steam engine. Then they began to see a problem. The problem was who will do this work? So they created a way out called the education meal. Think of education like a factory process. Yes. You put you bring in the students, you prepare them for a specific job, which in those days was obvious, they are going to be in the factory floor, and then you chant them out into the factory floor. Yes. That model has never changed because we never derive our solutions from past principles. From first principles, you first need to say, Yes, are we in the industrial revolution? No. Are we in the I don't know, agrarian revolution? No. So why are we using the same process to generate educated people or human capital?

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:18

That's the first problem. Yes. First problem is the way we generate human capital today through education was fit for purpose for the industrial revolution. And no governments in Africa are agile enough to change the systems. Because you have to change, okay, where are we? First industrial revolution, whatever, whatever. Now I think now we're in the fourth. Yeah. Or even we are moving into AI. Even that is too fast. Yes. Kenya, of course, has said they're going to do CBC, trying to change. They're trying to answer this thing from hopefully based principle. Which is more reactive than the intentional.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:54

So the first step is what was this human capital for? And the process that generates that human capital, has it been evolved?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 16:05

That's where the first problem begins. Because now from there you come to the second problem, which is uh there is money to find the capital, human capital. So that it's an investment by the industrial complex. Yes. Now you see in the Victorian age, the money was there because the industrial complex was working, the money would be brought back to find more workers. Yes. But now in uh Africa, if you're importing everything, it means the center of production is elsewhere. Yes. There's no money to bring back to generate the need of human capital to serve what? Which starts you start to see people saying we are importing labor to the developed countries. You see, they are following the actual capital elsewhere. Others are saying we are exporting uh education and people to go and get educated so that they can work where the money is coming from. But that is really the big thing. Now, if you are in education, if you are in universities, institutions, you can already see that's broken. So you need to say how integrated are you in the businesses that are running in the economy today?

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:15

That's in the second part of the second problem. Yes. If you're going to come and say, I need to educate people to be absorbed by Africa Stocking, have you consulted Africa Stocking to see the needs? The needs. Yeah. In fact, if are you so compelling that Africa Stocking is willing to even put money up front? Yes. For you to do their research. Yeah. For you to do their so if this process is not examined, not only is there enough, not enough money being put in the institutions to build the startups of the future, there is no industry linkage or distribution. Because the problem of startups is distribution. Yes. There is no distribution channel that is willing to fund the pipeline.

SPEAKER_06 18:02

Yeah. Which underscores a simple idea. Ecosystems begin where capability congregates. And remember, Africa is this ecosystem that we can't ignore anymore. Yes. Given that over 80% now are the most productive in the world. Yes. Now that we're in the knowledge society, ecosystems where you cannot even just market goods or services and assume people just consume them because you have they have seen it, they have marketed it enough. They need also to actually find that solution to be solving their day-to-day problem. Yes. And we have seen these with social media, the network algorithm. Yes. Amongst many others. Are we ready to really enable this capacity for the world? Because either way, if this is the youngest generation to live in the next 10-15 years, or even right now, actually, then we ought to actually ask ourselves when these people grow old or die or whatever, who will actually now take the man to and produce for the needs of the world? And another thing as you as you think through this, that we have seen uh underfunding or defunding of the institution that provides some of these skills. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 19:27

Where does that leave us? First of all, the institutions of education will be defunded because the pipeline is broken. And I think that's one of the themes I noticed with the with the big school, big score, yeah. The idea of family, the family culture.

SPEAKER_06 19:44

Let's just give this one something because they are Stanford is a result of like unless unless my funding that I've gotten from creating the railroad build an institution that will leave me.

SPEAKER_07 19:55

Benevolence. But you see, benevolence breaks when there is no more money being made. So it's why you see this guy, uh Mike, saying, after family, they now became treacherous. They started to fire layoffs. Yeah. So this is a very interesting theme. The theme is this resources are not infinite. Yes. So, because resources are not infinite, when we were younger, or when we were thinking about jobs and education, maybe 20 years ago, we always felt maybe we'd be absorbed somewhere. Otherwise, if we had the thinking today, we would not even have done the courses we did. Yes. But the reason why we were that naive was because we always believed abundance and unlimited resources. But when you start to document the economy, you realize your economy is six trillion. Yes. Then there is a total addressable market. Yes. You can only sell to this much. Yes. But you have to have unique value proposition to the personas in the market. Yes. That is of any market, including the labor market. Including even the government can be seen as orchestrating a market. And there's only so much you can take out of that market unless you expand it. So that's why it's like something like Africa, Continental Free Trend Area. If you want to be a billion-dollar business, forget about being a billion-dollar business in Kenya. You have to think scale. It will not work. And the need. Yes. It will not work because who are you selling to? Unless it's a government. But you're competing for the same government with European, yes, yes, Chinese, American companies. Yes. So this is very important. When you're talking about you're going to be a unicorn in Africa, we have gone beyond the idea of infinite benevolence. We need to put the numbers together. Now, when you look at the government, that's a struggle they must face. You know, you can't just pump money and hope. Yes. That is what we used to do when we were kids. Yes, yes, yes. Today you must realize how much. Is coming in how much is going out? What is the capacity of uh purchase of my people? Yeah, etc. Yes. Now, when you look at the university, university must also have a target audience, it is shipping research and talent too. Yes, if it's only shipping talent to Kakamega County, when will it be a billion dollar business? Kakamega County is only receiving maybe 15 billion shillings. Yeah, max. And most of it is debt. So a lot of these campuses or African universities are you know one state university. But you want to play the League of Harvard. Harvard, which is in advice advising 52 states or 54. The world. Ah, the world. Yeah. Yes. There is some research coming out of Harvard for China, for Middle East, for and therefore there can be a billion-dollar research outfit. Yes. So the companies of Africa will continue to defund these organizations, and the students will continue to live the process of education if there is no quantifiable adresable market, quantifiable direction for talent. Yes. And also, final point when you see China growing or the US, there is no growth of the tech ecosystem without government intervention. So the idea that you can give $1 million to the tech ecosystem in Africa, you are joking. Yes, you are joking. You need to look at the government as a platform where startups and businesses can plug in. And then the government needs to start thinking how does that platform grow value? Suddenly, you realize that you have no wastage available at all. You can do an audit and see if it is if it is agriculture, every vertical must be created and addressed for us to achieve the money we want. If you're looking at sports, if you're looking at uh business, anything that the government has its tax hands in, it must also start to nurture by being a platform. So I think the main story here is that Africa was very, very fast going to come out of benevolence and start creating value. Just like the Silicon Valley shift, which means people will now start thinking, if this guy is not creating value, am I going to keep him? Am I going to fire them? It's a very tough conversation. It can only be softened if we start to think about our entire value chain from end to end. And then when you strengthen that value chain, it means when a university will plug in, the university need to think beyond. You know, I usually see the Kenyan, uh, the Kenyan um lecturers fighting, and I'm like, brothers, sisters. You are fighting for in Kenya. Why don't you try and create a bigger pool of work across Africa? 545 54-55 countries. Yeah. That's where the billion dollars is coming from.

SPEAKER_06 25:02

Yeah.

Talent Mobility And The Fairchild Pattern

SPEAKER_06 25:03

And I think uh let's talk a bit about critical mass and talent mobility uh and the fairchild lineage. You know, most people don't know about how Silicon Valley was really built from the crit. So Fairchild Semiconductor remains one of the most consequential institutions in tech history. Okay. The treacherous eight live shockly, form fairchild, build new norms, and ultimately generate the fair children. And fair children here is Intel, AMD, National Semiconductor, and many more. So I think even given the Kenyan example, uh, before you used to talk about Safaricom, 70s, uh, Africa's talking a bit, uh One Inch group, then there was that wave of you know, Microsoft ADC. Yes. Uh, and and it doesn't mean that these companies were not there, it's just that they were there business-wise, like business development kind of presence. Uh, but uh there were a couple of years there that you know Microsoft came about. Okay, Andela came about, soft a few engineers. Yes. Then uh Microsoft, uh, there was GitHub, GitLab, you know, now there's Google Engineering and so on and so forth. Yes. And also you have seen some really interesting companies came about, Celluland. Uh, we have seen uh a couple of people raise money, you know, Soko, as much as they they they closed. But are we intentional about how people migrate their talent and grow? Do people leave companies and go and start companies that are actually uh you know disrupt? And how can we encourage this even from the company perspective so that we have continuity and talent mobility that is uh safe, that is healthy, and that actually grows the ecosystem?

SPEAKER_07 26:45

This is a very I don't know if I don't know if people are ready for this conversation. First, I can say a lot of um African uh co founders are jealous. They are fighting for for small grabs, a small ego, like you know, yes. Even when you eat food, right? Yeah, you need to get that food out of your system. Yes, otherwise you'll die. Yes. So I think number one, the tech ecosystem in Africa must heal from constipation caused by jealousy. I think the only country I have seen very successfully executing this is Nigeria. That's why in Nigeria you can have the flatter wave mafia, you can have the pay stack mafia, you can have the Andela Mafia. You can you see, yeah, it's already writing itself. Like there are several founders who have come together, built value, seen uh some of their uh engineers, uh business people grow in their companies, and then proactively given them wings to fly, which is the theme you're talking about for why the you know the treacherous eight. Yes. So you'll notice that if the fair child did not proactively spawn Intel D, giving them the ropes, giving them the contact. You know, business is not just about there's a concept that you need 10,000 days to build your first business. Yes, but after that, not more. Yes, because at 10,000 days or the three years, 10 years, I don't know how long. Three three to ten years anyway. Depends. Yes, is you working with 10,000 hours? Sorry, 10,000 hours, three years. 10,000 hours. Yeah, it's you working with you know, working through the process, which is you are discovering everything, learning everything, failing. Nobody should be lied to that the 10,000 hours last forever. No, it's just a phase. After it, if you've been working in the banking sector after three years, who don't you know? What product and problem don't you know? Yes. So after three years, if you have been working in a certain company, for you to move to another company or to build your own company, you have the contacts. Yes. So you just need enablement and a good, you know, experience or a good open ecosystem for guys to be like, Chief, go do your thing. Someone should even tell you I'll be the first one to put uh money in your series.

SPEAKER_06 29:20

Hey, yeah, because you know each other, you know the capabilities. I understand also in Silicon Valley is a very interesting uh ecosystem whereby anything you need, people know who can do it.

SPEAKER_07 29:28

Look at look at how Elon bought X. It's not all his money. Yeah, yes, yeah, how open AI was set up. Yeah, it's I'm doing this. All right, here is a hundred million, here is ten million. Because first, they are not debating are you capable? They are not debating do you have ethics? They are not debating uh do you have a process? They know you have a process, they know you are capable, they know there's a market. So they are taking away the do you think problems so that you start delivering value tomorrow. Yes. So to achieve that in Africa, one, we must get rid of jealousy. Two, we must look at everything as a process with an end game. Yes. Which means even when someone is hiring for their startup, they should already be calculating how these guys will grow, how they will exit, you know. So some startups in Africa should already have created 10 more startups. So even if you're not gonna do a billion dollars yourself, you can have 10 startups that are doing 10 million dollars in different sectors. Yeah. Doesn't money is money. You still have your 100 million at the end of the day. Yeah. So in uh for us to achieve Africa must first, we must stop being jealous. We must move away from the choking each other. And we must leave life, begin with the end in mind. The end in mind is every developer wants to be a CTO, yeah, every CTO wants to run a startup, every startup wants to enter series and get an IPO.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 31:06

That is the that why are we doing this if not for that? If if you're not conscious that every dev wants to be a CTO, every CTO wants a startup, every startup wants to exit as an IPO stage, you will have constipation.

SPEAKER_06 31:19

Uh, for sure. The most valuable output of a great company is the next generation of founders. Yes. In imaging ecosystem, you can't actually afford, and this is from Michael's The Big Score book. The first successful companies act as capability accelerators. Nice. Their alumni networks become the backbone of the ecosystem. If mobility is restricted, the ecosystem slows. If mobility is encouraged, as Graham is putting it, it compounds because definitely you are creating more customers even for your business. Yes. That the trust that they are work they have worked for, they have built before they started their own company.

SPEAKER_08 31:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 31:51

And let's talk about capital as a follower, not a catalyst.

Capital Follows Capability Not Hype

SPEAKER_06 31:56

Because also there is this uh uh uh you know conundrum of you have a startup, you want to raise. After you raise, you're in the news. In the news, we forget you, or you collapse. Yes, and it has become so so common in in the in the in the upcoming ecosystems. Yes. So many assume venture capital shaped Silicon Valley from day one, but the big score documents is the opposite. Yes, venture capital matured only after the valley demonstrated repeatable innovation. Interesting. Remember, Silicon Valley already had money from gold cash, right? Yeah and from the silicone mine, silicon mining, all right? So the money was was was was there, but it didn't really they didn't just start dishing it out, it wasn't the leader of innovation because they have money, and we know there are places where the money is, yes, uh, even today. Even in Africa, yeah, yeah. Switzerland uh there's money there, and the GDP is crazy, and there's uh this France part, they're the most richest part. Uh Monaco. Monaco. But doesn't mean they're the most rich. Southwest France. Yeah, yeah. So this is actually evident. This this matters because the regions often attempt to lead with capital rather than technical debt. Silicon Valley worked because capable founders and problem-rich environments came first. Capital simply simply amplified what was already happening. Yes, so capital is an accelerant and uh not a starting ingredient. And and and you could see like the the industrial you know, tycoons, yeah, people who started Stanford, they realized that yeah, building rail is a big deal. Civil engineering at that time was a big deal because that was the innovation, right? People are building roads, building, you know, the first of the many.

SPEAKER_08 33:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 33:37

But they realize, oh, you might want to establish an institution which actually carries out research, you know, predicts the future, and builds the new innovators and hence Stanford. If you look at MIT, the same thing, right? However, the same thing. They are just these people who maybe were oil tycoon or you know, whatever tycoon, and they decided, let's put this money in a trust that starts this institution that and you can see the evidence of that. But now in Africa, you can only speak so much about that. Uh, especially for our institutions. And and the reason why institutions are a very, very interesting uh study. And this is gonna not gonna stop because in the knowledge economy. I hear people saying university versus self-taught. You forget even the self-taught is generated from the same same university, you're escaping.

SPEAKER_07 34:20

Yeah, the principles of education and the education what you learn is the same. If you're learning a server, it's a server.

SPEAKER_06 34:25

Yeah, so people call it uh YouTube university, the Indian university, online, right? But remember, these this this education evolves, yeah. This education is created and is as a result of people asking paramount questions about where are we in, where are we going, yes, and what's gonna happen. Yes, and and and and there are so many problems to solve in Africa. It's just as a matter of fact, is that technology plays a part in that. But even today, if you look at water problem alone, yes, it's a big problem. Yesterday we were talking about the addressing system problem. If you look at the road network and the underlying technology, like um uh traffic lights, management of traffic and all that. And you mentioned something about data. Right? Yes. We should be led by data to make decisions. We should be led by data to know that this is what is required and for how much. So, my my my big big question in that is that are we are we really doing the right thing? Are we trying things out? Are we reactive because of other you know, distraction in our in our focus? Yes. Because different presidents come with a lot of promises. Uh, we have many stars around different things. And I and I like what Bosun is doing in Nigeria. Uh if you're following him, but one of the key things that he has done really well is a high in machine learning, capacity building, the strategy for the country. And the beauty of that is that even if he doesn't implement everything, someone will find a template the way Kibaki left Vision 2030, right? Yes, yes, yes. And it's easier to really look at it. The next steps are easier for the next guy. Yeah. The other segment I think that is covered well in the big school is the culture as operating

Culture As The Invisible Infrastructure

SPEAKER_06 36:10

system.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 36:10

And I know you have a lot to say about culture, absolutely, right? The invisible infrastructure, yes, as he puts it. Yes. And what the book actually captures particularly well is the valley cultural architecture. Yes. It wasn't formal, it wasn't other, but it was powerful. Today, if you learned that the Bay Area or San Jose or San Bruno or Santa Crara, and so on and so forth, there is always this agency to build, there's this agency to really implement, there's this agency to solve, there's and there's easiness of people joining you whenever you have a solution, or whenever you really have a roadmap, and people can rally around that and help you. Of course, there is an essence of let's make money abroad, you know, like let's make millions and billions. But definitely that's just the incentive. But people are ready to build. If you see someone has gone to Stanford, definitely, you know, one route is become an entrepreneur. Yes. Because the ecosystem and the culture itself allows or encourages. Yes. So I don't know, even looking at our you know, innovation centers, innovation cities, yes, is there much of that or just people are costing and raising funds and you know getting funded and all that?

SPEAKER_07 37:23

There's a there's a lot, there's a I don't know if there's a so much there. It's crazy. Yeah. Number one, I think the let me call it the African reality, which you see from your when you go to your um fundamental school, you learn subconsciously. Yes, is that you are always looking out, you know, the and this is a big problem. Our our fund our basis of education was always study, go abroad, produce, export, not even a very issue called a XYZ institution. Uh you killed each other, go to an international court. So that culture has been a big problem because it has, in my view, yeah, created this culture that someone else is coming to help us. But the first I am built to go elsewhere. I'm preparing to leave. Yes, that's a very, very bad problem that we have. Yes. So some people may argue, and even I think it's part of the book, that the bad management made some people leave to go and create their better things. You could argue like that, but guys, um where you are going, they are chasing you. Isn't it? They're like normal. Yeah, no, don't come here.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

The Republicans don't want you there.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

Yes, no one answers you. So, number one, the culture, we are already behind on that. But let's talk about what we can do today. So, what we can do today, I think, is there's a lot. First of all, the organizations that are profitable today, they need to start preparing for the future by creating a culture where they'd rat they'd rather look at it from let me give you a good example. Dan Gote. Yes, he created the world's largest single-train refinery recently. Yeah, 2024, 2025. As a chemical engineer, when you look at a petrochemical company, the amount of value you can generate is ridiculous. Yes. From pharmaceuticals to plastics to petrochemical is everywhere. So my first realization when I looked at this story was I realized that the engineers in the plant have not been empowered to think they can generate the downstream industries. They're just there to palm oil, refine it, sell it. Yeah, but you you should be able to say there's so many petrochemical products. I am in this industry. I can take one line, and Dangote should be able to invest in that line. Say I'm going to be the biggest producer of a certain pharmaceutical product or raw material that comes from petrochemical. I'm gonna focus on that. I'm going to, it's going to be part of Dangote, but it's instead of ignoring all these other verticals and just focusing on refining and selling oil, yeah. That's the reality these guys are facing. But the culture may prevent them from seeing it like that. Look at the blue chips of Africa, which are the telcos. They have so many resources and money. That should be the same thing. How many tech companies can they start within themselves that end up being the billion-dollar businesses of the next five years? Yeah. So that culture, if corrected, it means you already have all the jobs you need. Yeah. All these guys will hire five, ten, twenty, hundred people, you're already going to be starting absorbing. And if you think about it from every vertical, yes. Another thing about education, which is quite interesting, the world today, if you study, for example, the marketing vertical, you'll notice that people go to school to understand how to sell Facebook or to sell on Facebook. Yes. So there's already a new curriculum and education called Facebook. Yes. So Facebook has grown so big it can it has generated its own education. Yes. Which is basically what we started talking about when you are talking about the industrial revolution. Yes, yes. So now basically Facebook can give a curriculum which, if you pass or if you understand, you start making $500 a week. So in other words, the industrial revolution has morphed into 200,000 companies that can generate local knowledge, train local people, and create a local economy.

SPEAKER_05 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:22

So, but to get there, we have to change the culture. If you study, there's one time we were joking and saying Google employs the whole world. Yes. Why? Because of Google Ads. Without ads, you can't sell. Without selling, you have no money. With no money, you have no company. So by Google uh being existent with Google Ads, everybody is employed. Even the government has to use Google Ads to get its word out that it needs your tax. Yes. You see? Yes, yes. So that's another economy. You go and study Google uh marketing playbook, you become a guru. Start making thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:56

You didn't need to go to study engineering, you just needed to study the Google ecosystem. Same to Facebook, OpenAI, Meta, Microsoft, AWS, Oracle. So many people. So how does that translate to African companies? African companies must start to create that culture. They're creating unique information, unique businesses. Yeah. And they can be an umbrella of businesses. Yes. From their own ecosystem. So that's, I think, how we could crack. Yes. But we have to change the culture. And people need to realize I'm not just selling a product. I could ideally be creating an ecosystem of new value.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

Yes, yes, yes. You see? Absolutely. And in these lessons, actually, there are a couple of things that people can take away from the book, The The Big Score by Michael. One of them is fluid movement of talents, transparent sharing of lessons, which I think also we don't do really well. Tolerance of failure, yeah. And we should talk about that, like falling forward, paying forward, but failing also forward. Yes. Respect for speech. Limited hierarchy, which actually you know explores all the innovation there is to explore. So these norms produce velocity. And in many developing ecosystems, the visible artifacts are built. Co-working spaces, accelerators, pitch events without embedding the underlying cultural mechanism. And I normally tell you this every time, reminding you how bad we are doing as an ecosystem. If you go to the valley every day, there are different portfolios of events and engagements where you can plug in depending on your needs and your capacity. And they're really open as much as uh you know they're happening all the time. And one of the key things is like it convinced them the meeting of the minds and you know network, yeah, creating an opportunity for people to uh actually solve problems together collaboratively. Yeah but what we have seen is that culture culture determines throughputs. And without the right cultural foundation, structural attempts will always fall short. Yes. Now, one of the things that I've seen actually us as an ecosystem really miss out is the essence of really encouraging velocity of anything, you know, which we normally call consistency. Because if you're not shipping as an engineer, how much are you how much is the world? Are you learning even? Let's just start with how much are you learning? How much are you learning? How much you're missing, and how much that the world is missing from you?

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 45:30

As a marketer, if you're not exploring different frameworks that really work and testing them and be ready to fail, yes, how much disservice are you doing to yourself, to the company that you serve? If we do not encourage consultant economy or what you call gig economy, yes, how much economy are we not creating? Yes. Because you see, the economy, the way it works is that people, if they have extra money to spend, definitely. If you have a new business, they'll spend it on you, right? Absolutely. So there are a couple of things there. And many markets today, universities may not play this function yet, but developer communities, hubs, and startups can. Right? Yes. So the essential question becomes where in this ecosystem do builders become meaningfully better in a short amount of time? Because time is of essence. Yes. If you're learning code and you're learning it for two years, definitely maybe there's a new language. Yes. It becomes you know redundant. Yes. But if we have ecosystems where we are learning fundamentals, foundation of these languages, yes, then it becomes timeless. It doesn't matter what comes up. But how do we become meaningfully better in a short amount of time?

SPEAKER_07 46:36

Number one, the government cannot close on

Why A 24 Hour Government Matters

SPEAKER_07 46:39

Friday and open on Monday. So government is not expecting from this. And then come and tell us, oh my god, we have no money. If you go to the market, yes, that guy is awake at four. Yes. Why? He has no money. So this government is telling us, and this is not just Kenya government, every government is telling us in Africa. I don't care about the other worlds because they are ahead. Let's care about Africa for a minute. Africa, we have such big problems. You can't be closing at five on uh Friday and then coming on Monday. You can't be closing, opening at eight, closing at five. You're not serious. Yes. Yeah, you're not serious. Yes. You know, one of my internships was in a cement company. Uh-huh. Let me just say symmetry, not no marketing.

SPEAKER_08 47:33

The cement is just pose right there.

SPEAKER_06 47:35

In fact, we are open for in 2026, we are open for partners who really would like this conversation to go out there.

SPEAKER_08 47:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:42

Uh, so feel free to reach us, reach us, reach us out through info at uh impactmasters uh.com or marketing at africastalking.com. Yes. Uh we're gonna guide you on how we can partner, the kind of uh you know, segment that we cover. Yes, we are just niche conversationalist conversationalists and you'll see a couple of uh verticals in this. Yes, so definitely we are open so that you don't and this year we met our targets.

SPEAKER_07 48:06

Of course. That's why we are having this conversation.

SPEAKER_08 48:10

Yes, no, just just so we are not struggling. Nobody's closing the business.

SPEAKER_07 48:20

Yes, yes. The governments of Africa they close for business for holiday, and the people are uh hungry. Yes, the people who are not going for holiday, people were not going for holiday, yeah. Even some of them are rich, Elon Musk is not sleeping, and he's the richest, he's a fast trillionaire. But as we are so confident, we can close our at tea, we are doing work balance. Work life balance is oh it doesn't exist. No, it's a fallacy, it's not a it's it's not really a fallacy, but you if you believe in something so much, you will not be you will be not sleeping. But does the government believe it? The government is as a framework, we must mentor that framework. We must tell that framework this is how you reach results. Number one. So I was telling you I went to a cement factory for my internship. Yes, that cement factory, first of all, you know, cement is not stored. Cement is not stored, it's never enough. At least in Kenya, in East Africa, in Africa. Cement is only pumped into the vertical silos for mixing and going. That is not a storage. You know, when you pass by a cement factory, you see those tall things, those are not storage. Yeah, because when cement is being ground, it comes in different, you have to mix different uh raw materials. You could be mixing, say, Pozzolana ash from two different sites, yeah, which means its particulars are different, yeah, which means they already the quality is inconsistent. Yeah, so to narrow the consistency variation, you pump all these cement variations into that silo and mix because it's dust. Yes. So by the time it's going settling to the bottom, you have a consistent batch. Yeah. So there's no storage. So, but that was not the story. The story is those guys don't sleep. You only close your plant for two weeks because you must do maintenance. Otherwise, and one week is for maintenance, one week is for starting the plant. Because the plant is so huge, it needs one week to be stable. Yes. It needs one week to generate the the you know the consistent results or a consistent product. Yes. So what you learn there is that a shift begins at seven, you have eight hours, you live at three. Yes. Someone else comes from three, they have eight hours, they live at eleven, another one comes at eleven, they have eight hours, they live at seven. Yes. That never closes. So when you look at the government, what do you see? Number one, if our economies are if only the government works 24 hours, what does the government need? It's the largest employer, yes, it needs transport, they need food, yes, they need uh security and health. So when there is security in the government installations, there's security in the city. When the people need to go to work every eight hours, there's uh transport that can't stop, and the transport is sustainable because there's always a batch of people walking to work, going to work. Yes, and then number three government delivery is faster. Yes, it's always working, yes. See? So that's maybe reliable and reliable. That's the first one. Yes, always, yes. So may not someone will come and say this doesn't work in the rest of the world, but we're not the rest of the world. Yeah, we are Africa. We need to be there. We are Africa, we need to catch up. We even need to pass surpass them. Yes, we are Africa. So, as Africa, we need to say what works for us. We have the best weather. You won't tell me that I'll be freezing when I'm going to work at 11 p.m. No, it's always summer in Africa. So the first driver of change has to be a 24-hour government. Okay?

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:08

Which is automated. In other words, I clock in, I clock out, I have a workflow. When I leave. And there's enough workforce. Yes. And I when I leave, the next person coming, they don't need to, they have a system that shows them this is the these are the tickets I'm working on. And they can continue from there. That's already working for other businesses. So number one has to be that. Number two, from that thinking, you can now look at the direct impacts from I said the other day that the government of Kenya is now uh have its own enterprise arm. What does that say? It says if you look at the positive side, it says that they are going to be really, really efficient at delivering value. Yes. But how does it tell on the negative side? The negative side says the current Kenyan businesses that have survived on tenders from the government will be competing for the same tender as the government enterprise. I highly doubt they will win. So they need to now start adopting new ways of doing business, evaluating your value chain and seeing who are your partners that you can co-create new businesses with so that you survive the incoming storm. It's going to be a storm. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyway, I don't know if I've covered all that question. My idea was our culture needs to change to 24 economies. Yes. Starting with the government. Yes. Then we need to build on the ecosystems that we as companies have. So that's right now. Yes. You enhance the value you can create as a business.

SPEAKER_06 53:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 53:44

So let's talk about the segment about feedback loops and investment, which is covered really well in the big

Collision Spaces RD And Faster Scaling

SPEAKER_06 53:49

score. The compounding engine. Yes. Right? And this is a theme that is covered well in the big score. So success wasn't an endpoint. It was a contribution. Funders reinvested, reinvested capital, time, networks, and knowledge. Yes. All employees mentored new entrepreneurs and experience circulated. In fact, even today, if you look at uh Paul Graham, right? If you look at uh Sam Hartman, if you look at Mac, if you look at uh Elon Musk, it's not just someone who just reappeared in one night on one day and he was successful. If you look at the papal mafia, there is a story, there's there's there's there is a network build, there is a failure, there is uh exit, there is uh investment, there is a recommendation, there is referral, all these things are happening. But in Africa, and and I can be corrected, I've seen uh a culture where or you know a loop where people are always gatekeeping. Yes, they are always you know creating some sort of cabal, to say the least. Uh here they are like CTO WhatsApp groups where if you're fired in one company, you can't be reheared in that extra. And imagine how much talent we're losing because of such. And I'm not saying that it's a classic example, but I just want to imagine we we where we have an ecosystem where you know failure is encouraged. Yes, different opinion is encouraged, yes, um, building is encouraged, and talent is built uh to withstand everything. So ecosystem scale through recursive contribution, uh, the loop looks like this build, learn, exit, and evolve. Reinvest, repeat at a higher level. Interesting. So if you build something and exit it at 50 million US dollars, maybe the next one should be a billion, right? Yes. With all this investment cycle, ecosystem plateau, and we've seen so many other, you know, I don't want to say Rwanda, where it looks like a lot is happening, and then all of a sudden, there's not so much also a problem of limited markets, exactly, and scale as you speak about it. So there's a lot that really I think that could be learned there. I don't want to preempt everything. And our by the way, our intention of this, and this is our first book that we wanna put out there, is not to preempt what is there. We want to encourage you that you can actually read some of these things and form your opinion. Inform your opinion. We're not paid, we're not partnering with Michael Marlon. It's something that I found interesting, given this podcast is telling the story and also changing the status quo.

SPEAKER_08 56:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 56:24

Yeah, so I don't know if you have something to, you know.

SPEAKER_07 56:27

Yes. So you know what's funny about uh what the especially when you look at things like the African hubs. Yeah, there was a research that was done by the World Bank of what makes a successful hub. And a lot of things can be said about the World Bank, but funny enough, those guys have even, I think, worked on um a tech city in Barcelona. Where the Barcelona activa, where they they work together to create uh, you know, cities are maybe changing.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 56:59

Long ago you'd have a zone where it's an industrialized zone. I think everyone. Because of the industrial issue, yeah. A lot of stuff was shipped to China. There's no local manufacturing. In Kenya, people don't know, may not know, but there's uh a Kenya industrial estates. Industrial parks. Yes, in every area. And every university has one. Yes. But the main challenge of Kenya Industrial Parks or any other parks is not the local market. It's that you are a part of a global economy. You sign agreements with other economies, and you must allow their goods in for competition. Therefore, because of that, your cost of production, and of course you may not have the cheapest electricity, the cost of production will be high. Nobody will buy anything that's locally produced, no matter how much they love the country, because there are also limits to spending power. So, these guys wrote uh a paper about ecosystems, African ecosystems. And they were talking about the most important things that need for an ecosystem to thrive, yeah, include a collision space, regular interactions, yes, and a grow and growth or access to education, or uh, let's say a linkage between industry and university. Yes, yes. And it's very it's a very important uh research because it now guides why would an ecosystem or a community work. So back to your point where you're talking about you know in Silicon Valley, you you you would hardly miss an event every evening. Yes, that's not accidental, and people no longer look at it as a cost center. Okay, yeah, and also the participatory rate of the entire, let me call it, in the the different departments or company must be high. So when you're looking at these collision spaces, a lot of the time people think that that is a tech event. But if you are if you are, for example, the business person or the HR person or the finance person in a tech company, yeah, you are in tech. Yes. You can't be saying, I won't attend tech events. Number two, when you attend those tech events, you are not attending it because you are going there to write code. Code is a fraction of what creates value. In fact, a company can be seen as a tech layer and a product layer. Yes. The product layer matters because once you finish writing the tech, the product must be sold. Yes. So today we can't sell by telling someone, here is my product, buy it.

SPEAKER_05 59:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 59:32

We now have to go through relationships, knowledge, leadership so that you convince the target customer you are worth their money. Yes. So these events are supposed to be looked at as an investment in the marketing pipeline, in the sales pipeline, but also in refreshing the brand. Yeah, you are refreshing the pipeline. Some people you'll find there, you'll hire, some people will find others and they will leave. That process needs to be simulated more.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:03

So you can't say talking with the only guys who will do the ecosystem tour, or Safari Commons, the only ones who will do it. Everybody needs to see themselves as creating a collision space in their office, in their city, so that talent can move, value can be created, collaboration can happen, capital can move. Human beings must meet before they exchange value. That's a very important reason why those things are successful. So that's one culture we need to have. Yeah, so but beyond that, I think the RD, every company needs to have an RD budget. Absolutely. Even the government. Even the government. The RD budget for tech companies should be in acquiring other tech companies. That's how this money will circulate. Yeah. Now, if you are running a company with no RD budget, you're already starting from negative. Negative, yeah. Yes. Yeah. But if you have money, instead of now you spending three years to build a solution, why not acquire JV, collaborate with another company that has been doing this for 10 years, five years, three years? Yeah. And also that's the way we will scale across Africa. Yes. Instead of saying you'll walk into Ethiopia and set up a company, why don't you say you will go into Ethiopia with $500,000? Yes. Acquire shares of a company there that is aligned to you, and do business. That is the answers the story of speed.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:28

It answers the story of speed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:30

Velocity.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:31

And velocity.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:32

So there are a couple of lessons that have been learned and they can be applied in emerging markets. So principles without limitation days. So practical question is which lessons are transferable,

Transferable Lessons And Closing Takeaways

SPEAKER_06 1:01:44

right? Like one of them is several principles are universal. Yes. Right? Yes. Mobility of talent. Everyone wants to work in Silicon Valley. Yes. Right? Because of how you know your talent is either evaluated. Yes. The packages that come with that.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:00

And even the learning. Even the learning. Yes. I saw some engineers quitting to go and work for the boring company. Yes, yes. Or X. Yes. Or uh Amazon Leo. Yeah. Because of just the edge.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:12

Palantir.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:13

Yeah, or palantir. Because of just the edge of knowledge they will acquire.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:16

Yeah. Strong capability building institutions that cannot be ignored. And I think the the private sectors and the government has a huge role to play given the control over 70% of GDP. Yes. Fonder-led investment or acquisition and not acquisition to kill or destroy. It's acquisition to expand and save time. Dense technical problems and even velocity itself. Yes. So but this implementation must reflect local context. And that's why communities and developer experience, developer relations, or any other relations, even customer success, are becoming very important core of any serious company. So ecosystems should not replicate Silicon Valley. Because Silicon Valley is Silicon Valley because of so many things. Yes, so true. And it has been there for quite a while. They should build coherent systems. Yes. Grounded in local strengths and regional realities. And I think you have put it really well, given local context of African markets. Yes. So pattern recognition matters more than imitation. And I don't know if what your parting shot is, but ideally, this is a very interesting book. It's known as The Big Score. Yes. By Michael.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:27

Yeah, my parting shot. The man behind the curtain. Yes. The Department of Defense. So the government was the first VC. And the myth of the garage may not be. Yes. In fact, there's a company I've forgotten the name. If uh they are building vertical takeoff and landing planes for the Department of Defense. And they've been doing, they've been failing for four years. I've forgotten the name. It starts with A. So military contracts provided the patient capital that allowed companies to survive early failures. Yes. Some companies in Africa will fail early. Doesn't mean they don't have an idea that will work.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:18

It just means they need patient capital because nobody starts working on the first day. Yes. Nobody starts chewing hard food on the first day. Even the Wright brothers didn't fly on the first day. And the plane that they flew, was it in Oregon? Kitty Hawk. Is not what we take today as flights. Yes, yes. You see? Yes. There had to be some patience. And most probably we should actually research who was their first investor. It must have been the government. Yes. Yes. The Air Force was born. You see? Yes. So the idea that African companies can begin with the freemium model, you know, and then hopefully they'll get customers, should really debunk that myth. Yes. And we should really, and governments in Africa that wants to create a vibrant technology ecosystem that pays back should start to seriously consider buying and developing and nurturing local software. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:19

In fact, I just checked who was the first investor of the Wright Brothers. And here they research tells me they didn't have one, but they just self-financed from the bicycle manufacturing and repair business. Interesting. The Wright Cycle Company. They built and sold their own bicycle models, which provided a steady income that covered all expenses related to their aviation research, including materials for their glinders, the custom built engine, and travel to their testing site at Kitty Hook, North Carolina.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:50

Then maybe we need to ask who was their first big customer?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:55

Only later, after achieving successful and sustained flights and demonstrating their airplane in Europe.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:01

It wasn't even welcome in uh in uh the US. There's a lot of lessons there. Indeed.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:06

Right company in 1909 with a group of New York industrialists as investors. Yes. So this tells you other founders actually might even believe in you before all this.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:17

And also, we need to call out those blue chip companies in Africa that are building real estate. Chief, can you imagine there are some big blue chip companies, and blue chip companies in Africa where it's very obvious the banks and the telcos are busy buying and building real estate.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:39

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Now, and and you're right, and it's good that you are.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:46

Of the Wright brothers was the United States, of course, which purchased the 1909 Wright military fly for $30,000. This purchase was a result of a competitive bid process that the Army initiated in 1908 to find a find a two-seat observation aircraft. You have it. So, all in all, so there are a couple of things that you could actually note here. One of them is the the ability of other investors, other innovators to invest in you. Yes. Also exploring beyond your state or your country. Very important another place. Size of markets. Yes, and other or even need. And also type.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:28

Maybe Europe felt this is more, we need this more than the Americans.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:32

Absolutely. And without further ado, check out Africa Stocking at africastalking.com. Yes. One of our supporters of this podcast and collaborator of Retold Podcasts. Yes. And Impact Masters at Impactmasters.io. And check out all these podcasts in every single channel, including uh YouTube, Spotify, yes, iHeartRadio. Uh there's also Spotify uh and and many others, including uh podcast, yeah. Google, yeah. Google podcast. Google Podcasts now is YouTube. Ah it's on it's it's on YouTube. There's also Amazon, AW Amazon. Yeah. So we are available in all podcast uh channels. Of course, this is all gonna be published right away, but you can actually rewatch it on YouTube as live, and then the edited version will be released uh globally as soon as it's ready. So if you like it, just let us know. Uh we love your feedback and we want to keep this update. This is the first one on matters discussing different books, different topics that we can learn from and share with you. Uh, and this was from The Big Score by Michael Malone. Uh, without further ado, my name is Michael Kimadi and my co-host from Africa Stalking and eBack Masters, respectively. Until next time, have yourself a good evening, good night, and good morning, wherever you are. See you later.