Sue Day: Leading rugby on the pitch and in the boardroom
Sue Anstiss:
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers. I'm Sue Anstiss and this is the podcast where I talk to the trailblazers in women's sport. What can we learn from their incredible journeys as we explore some of the key issues around equality in sport and beyond . A huge thank you to our partners Sport England, who are kindly supporting the next three series of the Game Changers through a National Lottery award. And what a privilege it is today to introduce my amazing guest . Sue Day was a legend on the rugby pitch, a Former England Captain at 15s and 7s, Sue played in three World Cups, helped win three grand slams and was England's top try scorer with 61 tries from 59 caps. She was made president of Wasps in 2013, the first woman to hold that role in the club's 146 year history. And she's now Chief Operating officer and chief financial officer at the RFU. She's also a founding trustee of the Women's Sport Trust and has been an incredible driving force for equality across women's sport. So it was wonderful to see her recognised for this in 2020, when she was awarded an MBE for her services to gender equality in sport.
So Sue, you didn't have the most traditional route into rugby. Can you tell us how you found the sport or how the sport found you?
Sue Day:
First of all, thank you! Thank you for having me. It's brilliant to be here. I went to state school in the Midlands, and the school that I went to, the boys didn't play rugby let alone the girls. And so I just had never had a chance to see a rugby match or pick up a rugby ball. And actually it wasn't until I went to university that I started to play at all. I did a degree in French and Spanish and I spent a year in Barcelona. And my first couple of years at university, I was playing hockey. And then when I got to, to Barcelona, I couldn't find a hockey team, or I certainly couldn't find a hockey team that I could afford to join. And a friend took me along to rugby, picked up a rugby ball. Absolutely loved it. And, and the rest is history. I got bitten by the bug and never look back.
Sue Anstiss:
And what was it about rugby, do you think over hockey and I think you played netball a bit in the past to a fairly good standard.
Sue Day:
I loved all those sports and I, and I love all sports. I think I just found my home in rugby, the simplicity of the game. So it was about running quickly, evading people and scoring tries really quite simple. When you when you hone it down, it just suited my skill set. So I got bitten by the bug. And then the other thing that I really found was certainly that team that I found at Barcelona, I was living hundreds of miles from home. I didn't really know very many people. I joined the rugby club. It was full of an amazing bunch of women. And they just took me, took me to their hearts. I found a little family there. And so I loved it from that perspective too. And, and indeed, you know, ever since moving back to university, then moving to London my rugby team, my rugby friends have always been my family as well. So it was, it was a combination of those two things.
Sue Anstiss:
And do you think it'd be possible for a woman today at university or college to find rugby and then progress through in terms of the quality of play to an England team?
Sue Day:
So I think it is probably still just about possible in the positions… I have to be careful what I say, <laugh> in the positions where less brilliance in all the all-round skill sets is required.
I’ll be careful how I put this. So it's easier to transition to be a winger if you've got brilliant fast evasion skills, but you don't need quite so much of the distribution skills or whatever. I think it's probably just about possible, although I'm sure many current wingers might argue with me, but it's really hard, you know. Back when I played so many people had just transitioned at university. Now that simply isn't possible. Cause you've got people who have been playing since they were five, six years old and their skillset is just absolutely phenomenal. And you, you can't, you can't learn that quickly.
Sue Anstiss:
And that's what we want really, isn't it ultimately, that is what you want is that quality of play that comes from, from playing throughout, from childhood all the way through. And I don’t think you mentioned that, but you came back to play at Wasps. What was the setup like there for you as a woman playing at that, time at Wasps and then in England?
Sue Day:
Yeah, it was a totally amateur club. So we were players trying to be professional you know, with a small ‘p’ but, being totally amateur. So we, we trained on Tuesday and Thursday nights after work or college or university, whatever it was people were doing. And we all paid a membership and we clubbed together to occasionally you get a coach to get to the away matches, you know, so it was entirely amateur. And at the same time, it was a bunch of highly dedicated athletes and coaches trying to be the best they could possibly be. So we were getting up early to do our training, coming to club, doing a quick skill session, then doing the full session then finally getting to bed, doing it all again the next day with work in between. It was challenging, it was hard work, but it was amazing as well. Everybody was pushing after the same goal and giving it everything they possibly could.
Sue Anstiss:
And how different is that today, I guess, to paint that picture of, of women playing rugby today, whether at Wasps or in that England team?
Sue Day:
I mean, it's different in that there is a much more professional set up with a big piece. There more funding, there's more investment going into the sport. And so you have some players, certainly the, the Red Roses who are full-time contracted players, who dedicated themselves to being the best rugby players, they could possibly be full time. And there is a, there is more investment in the infrastructure. So the coaching set up, nutritional, those kind of, of things. You'd have more of that infrastructure around you and at club level, there are still some players who are doing that juggling that, that we were always doing and, and arguably a lot more juggling now because they are trying to fit in more training sessions. They're trying to keep up with the players and their team who are full-time who want to be training more together. So it's really, it is really important to acknowledge, it's a really challenging moment for those players on the cusp of between amateur and professionalism who are trying to hold down full time jobs and be the best rugby player so that they can possibly be in this system that is gradually going professional. If that makes sense.
Sue Anstiss:
Really interesting, I actually hadn't thought of it from that point of view, but how much harder it is almost when those around you and that you're playing against have made that step. And we're not all on an equal playing field of everyone playing amateurs.
Sue Day:
Exactly that, and it's really important you look after the welfare of those players, cause there's, you know, there's, there's two parts to it, they don't have the opportunity yet to be full-time professionals. They want to be the best they can possibly be. They'll probably feel under pressure from the other players to be there more, but at the same time, under pressure from themselves to do more. And they're trying to work full time. And, and we all know that the, the thing that often gets forgotten in the middle of all of that is rest and recovery you talk to coaches in the AP 15s, they will tell you, get the balance, right. It's like teachers who are trying to differentiate with different levels of learning in a classroom. They're trying to differentiate and create the right environment for all their players to thrive and to look after them.
Sue Anstiss:
Your first fall cap was in Spain, some nice parity there isn't there in terms of that's where you found the game. But what are your memories of that day when you think back to that day?
Sue Day:
It's still hard to find the words cause it's such a, that, that, that feeling of, of pride and, and achievement is, yeah, it's, it's really hard to put into words. I don't really know what I remember and what I've got in, in, in pictures. If, if you know what I mean, there's, I've got a, I mean, there isn't much left of the day. There isn't there, isn't a beautiful, video of the whole match or anything like that. I've got a couple of pictures. It's one of me walking back after scoring in my first try. So that's a memory I have, but I don't really know some memory, just that picture a lot. What I remember the feelings more so.
The feeling of absolute nervous excitement the night before I was sharing a room with <inaudible name of player>, she was 12, I was 13. We took a picture of our shirts next to each other. Just that feeling of the buildup, the excitement, how special it is. I just about remember the match, then after the match I remember there were quite a lot of people who made their debut that game. And in those days, they may still do it, I don’t know, the senior players presented each new cap with a rose. Then we all stood together their roses and had a picture. And I just, it is really the feeling more than the match itself that I remember just that feeling of excitement, of pride so nervous as well, all, all of that mixed in together
Sue Anstiss:
You were also in that first England women's team to play at Twickenham too. So again, memories of that day, that must have been incredibly special too.
Sue Day:
Yes. That was against France in 2003. We, we played at Twickenham and, and you you're right. Just to, just to run out at Twickenham stadium, the home of England rugby, that felt really special for a number of reasons, an amazing stadium to get to play in and so just that feeling of, of, of awe when, when you run out, But also really importantly in those days as well the feeling that it meant that people believed in us, you know, we had previously played in all sorts of places, you know, and, and wherever you, wherever you go around the country to play clubs will absolutely look after you and help you feel welcome.
Sue Day:
But the feeling of acceptance from the rugby hierarchy, if you like, or the rugby community, when we got to play at Twickenham was really important to us because, you know, the international women's game had come a long way by that point, it they'd had to fight for everything that they possibly could to you know, to get to where they got to people like Carol Isherwood and Deborah Griffin put in so much work to create the game at all, that it really felt like a huge, a huge step that we've made to get to Twickenham
Sue Anstiss:
You excelled and played at fifteens and sevens too. So for those perhaps not as familiar with the game, how easy is it to play and be and be brilliant at both. And you captained both too, didn't you?
Sue Day:
Yeah, my skill fitted a little bit. So, the… it's important to have absolute speed in sevens apart from fitness and everything else, if you don't have speed, you'll, you'll get found out. So that, that definitely helped. What I definitely did I wouldn't advise to people. I played sevens at the end of my career. So ordinarily sevens is often played by young players coming through very, very fit with a lot of energy. Cause it is incredible. I mean, 15th is hard, work. Seven is hard in a different way. You essentially sprint in the sun as much as you possibly can. And it just, it really hurts the mental toughness in sevens to be able to just do sprint after sprint, after sprint is, is so important. So yeah, ordinarily you do that early in your career, and then you, then you sort of graduate into, into fifteens.
I played it right at end of my career, and that was simply because that's when the opportunity arose. The first ever women sevens, World cup was in 2009 and I'd actually retired from fifteens and I was sort of planning to retire, but then this tournament came along, as I say, it fitted my skill set. There were only young players they wanted in the sevens. And there was just a really, really nice role for me and for Joe Yapp to be the the older players helping this generation come through. So just a brilliant opportunity at the end of my career. And you, you know, you're always in life looking for ways to new things and learn new things. It meant it ended my international rugby career really nicely, cause I learned a load of new skills through sevens. it was just a lovely way to, to cap off my international career.
Sue Anstiss:
I've been really lucky on the podcast to talk to lots of national captains, actually in netball and cricket and football, hockey. And I'm always interested to know what they think makes a good captain. So why do you feel you were chosen for that role and what, what do you feel you did? Well,
Sue Day:
I mean, it really depends doesn't it, people can absolutely be all sorts of different kinds of captain. My role in that team was to bring some experience. Players now who you wouldn't think of as, as, as the younger players with people like Rachel Burford, Nolly Waterman, Heather Fisher, we just reading about, you know, people like Nolly, Heather, you know, retiring not long ago. So, so it dates me, but, all those young players coming through and so they didn't have that much international experience. And so my role first of all, was to help create an environment that they felt comfortable in, that they felt included in where they felt they could thrive and to help take the pressure off them. So, you know, they, all they had to think about was playing rugby, being the best they could possibly be.
Sue Day:
The other really important role, I think we had was just to set the right example, to be a role of what an international player should be. I always talk about you want to be the best role model you can be, even when nobody's watching, like you, you are, you're doing all the right things in the right way. You you're behaving with integrity, you're doing all your training sessions. You are listening for coaches, you're treating people respectfully, all of those things that go together to be, you know, the full package of a, of a really well rounded international rugby player.
Sue Day:
The whole of society is crying out for good role models. And I think sports people have this, you know, amazing opportunity if they want to take it, to be those kind of role models, to act with integrity, to be the best that you can possibly be.
You were playing rugby in the eighties and nineties when society wasn't as progressive as it is today. So what was your experience like being an LGBTQ woman in rugby?
Sue Day:
That’s a really good question. The honest answer is that it was easier to be an LGBTQ woman in rugby than not in rugby. It was a really inclusive space to be I found rugby, the rugby club to be that space where it was okay to be who you wanted to be, where you didn't have to hide who you were, or you didn't feel like you had to hide who you were, where I certainly always felt supported by my teammates, by coaches, by, by people around me. So I appreciate that that can be, you know, that experience can be really different for different people in, in different sports, certainly different, you know, certainly harder for men in, in sports rather than women often to, to be out. But, but my experience was that it was, it was such a welcoming, inclusive place to be.
Sue Anstiss:
How do you feel about sport today? I kind of had my own positive opinions you know, as a mother of a rugby play and daughter, but what, what are your thoughts in terms of how the sport is today?
Sue Day:
In terms of inclusivity? I mean, I think the first thing to say is there is always more to do if you think you are in a team sport or any sport, and you think you've made it, if you think you've done enough to include people, then you know, you are wrong, there is always more to do. I, I personally think rugby is in a relatively good, a good place. I, I generally find rugby clubs, inclusive places, and I generally find rugby people open to thinking about how to make them more inclusive. I appreciate all of those are generalizations. We know there is always more work to do in every club in the land within England rugby, everywhere. We have to constantly be striving to be better. And yeah, we've never made it.
Sue Anstiss:
That's absolutely the right approach. Isn't it? Absolutely. I hate to bring us up, but you played in three world cups, but didn't, (laugh) didn't win one. How much does that M now when you look back at what was clearly an extraordinary career?
Sue Day:
So yeah, I mean, the the answer should be that it doesn't, it doesn't matter at all. I gave it my very best and I'm very proud of what I did achieve. All of that's true. I am very proud of what I achieved. I did give it my all and we were competitive people who got out of bed every day with pretty much the sole goal of winning a world cup. So I will remain disappointed forever that we, we didn't win the world cup. That's what we were trying to do, people, you know, often talk about the, the parallels between sport and business running organizations. And, you know, I think you can overdo those comparisons, but I do think one thing business can learn from sport is you know, in sport you have such a clear, simple clarity of goal.
Sue Day:
I got out of bed every day, knowing that I was trying to do the best I could to be the best I could be as part of a team that was trying to be the best it could be to win a world cup. And the more that you can replicate that clarity of goal, the better in any, you know, walk of life. And so I, yeah, I asked, I am, proud. I'm I I'm deeply fulfilled by the rugby career. I have the friends I made the life lessons, I you know, all the things I've learned and I will remain disappointed forever that we never won the world cup.
Sue Anstiss:
Like me, you are a founding trustee, of the women's sport trust, and you've supported the charity for 10 years now can you just tell me why you got involved in 2012?
Sue Day:
Yeah, well, yeah, sort of two parts of that answer. Uh, why I got involved was because Tammy Parlour one of the founders and who is still, chief executive of the, of the charity, essentially hunted me down on Twitter and got me involved. She's very tenacious. I'm an accountant by trade and it had on the bottom email, the fact that I was, and she realised that could be quite helpful in the, in the start up of a charity. So that coming together with the fact that I was, I was just retiring from playing sport. I'm deeply passionate about sport. I care about sport. I have really strong feelings about how much sport can bring to people's lives. And so really want really want to make sure that as many people as possible get the chance to be touched by sport.
Sue Day:
And the fact is, the fact was then, and it still is that women and girls do not have as many opportunities in sport as, as men and boys. And so when, when she came to me with that concept, it just fitted perfectly with the moment I was at in my sport career, the passion that I have. And, and, and so I got involved and here I am yeah, as you say, nearly 10 years later, like you still involved because we've achieved so much, it's so exciting. And as we keep saying, there is still so much to do,
Sue Anstiss:
<laugh> Indeed and when you stopped playing, you coached the England women's development squad for a while and, and Wasps too, so was coaching profession you ever considered taking full as a full-time role?
Sue Day:
That's, that's a great question. I certainly wanted to dip my toe into coaching and I don't think I knew at that point, whether it was something that I wanted to pursue as a career or not. I sort of tried it out a bit and what I found or what it reminded me of. ‘Cause, you know, if you think about it, I'd been coached for a long time, so I should have know exactly what it took to be, to coach. But what I found was to be a really good coach is, you have to be so dedicated even the England seventh development team, I coached had I had 10, 12 people and Jo Yapp, had 10 or 12 in the talent transfer team together they were sort of 11 squad, and even just a squad of that 10 or 12 people to, to genuinely to help them be the best they can possibly be, you need to be watching them play. You need to be doing individual feedback for each of them. You need to be helping them to be better players, you need to be helping them to be better people. They need to bring all that together the amount of dedication and commitment that takes is, is huge. And so I realized that I either had to throw myself in it a hundred percent or not do it at all. And at the time I had been working at KPMG the whole time that I, that I was playing for England. And I was just back into working full-time at KPMG and actually really wanted to give that career a go and so it just wasn't, for me, it just wasn't a possibility to do the two. Cause I couldn't do the coaching. I couldn't commit enough time to coaching to be brilliant at it.
Sue Anstiss:
You think you might have done if there had been a pathway and an opportunity in as being professional role as there is more of now?
Sue Day:
Yeah, I might, I might have done. And that, and that's one of the issues I think that we face in women's sports still is that women get to the end of their sporting career. And, and you know, and this is true for some men in some, in, in some, in, in sports too, but, but true in most women's sport, you get the end of your, your sporting career and, and suddenly, you know you've got to think about the rest of your life. And, and so you need to make sure you look after your non-sporting career. So we lose women out of, brilliant women out of sport for that, because they need to focus on other things. This isn't true of men. You've often not put off starting a family because you just couldn't do it while you were playing. I mean, I've played with a couple of women who did juggle the two and goodness me hats off to them.
Sue Day:
And just on top of that, women generally have more of the family caring, all those responsibilities that men don't so much have. So you put those three things together. It means that women, you know, as they reach the end of their sporting career, have a lot more pressures. And so we tend to lose them out of sport at a greater rate than the men at that point, because they're just so many other things that they, they, they might need to take care of as, as leaders in sport. That is a huge problem we have to fix because you know, to be the best sports that we can possibly be, we need to keep those women in our sports because they are brilliant. What they know is gold dust. If we can recycle that knowledge and expertise, you know, think how, how much better will be
Sue Anstiss:
And how important is it to see the likes of amazing Giselle Mather, Susie Appleby, Nicky Ponsford, I could name many, as women coming through as coaches now and, and having that profile?
Sue Day:
It it's so important. And it it's important for, for all sorts of reasons. It's important because it shows the opportunities are there now. And just, just because women should have those opportunities in the same way that men do. It's also important, cause we want role models. We don't just want role models on the pitch. I want little boys and girls to turn on the telly and I want them to see women on the rugby pitch, playing rugby. I want them to see women on the sidelines, coaching rugby. I want them to see women in the middle refereeing rugby. I want hear, I want them to hear women, um, in the background talking about the rugby, commentating on the rugby, all of those kind of things, just because I want those little boys and girls to grow up thinking, oh, women can do that stuff too.
Sue Day:
I've got friends, who've got, a young son and he'd grown up watching their friends play rugby. And he turned to his mums one day and said when they went to see a men’s match, what do men play rugby too? <laugh> you know, kids can grow up just thinking all of this stuff's normal, then, you know, we will be redundant at the Women's Sports Trust because all this stuff will be sorted. You done.
Sue Anstiss:
We’ll be done! Why did you take the job at the RFU? Did you ever question working in the the very sport you loved or did it just feel like a dream opportunity?
Sue Day:
Yeah, I didn't question it all that much. Maybe I should have, but, but yeah, it was, it was one of those once in a lifetime sliding doors, whatever you wanna call it, moments in time. I wasn't looking to, to, to move. I was at the time I was working at KPMG, I was a partner in the dealer advisory business. I had a leadership role in the deal advisory business had loads of opportunities. I was really enjoy in my job but one day a fellow partner forwarded to me the job description for what, what the job I started to here at, which was, chief finance officer at the RFU. And he forwarded it to me saying, you know, you know, finance, you know, rugby, can you think of anybody who might be interested in, in this? And I, I, I took one look at it and I thought, actually, do you know what? Yeah, I do know one person who's really interested in this. And, and the reason I was interested was, well, I mean, everything I've just talked about, you know, rugby has given me so many of the most amazing experiences I've had in my entire adult life. It's taught me so many life lessons about how to fail and get back up again, how to work in teams, how to give feedback, how to receive feedback, how to constantly strive to be the best that you can be all of that, you know, it could go on forever. And, you know, I have got so much out of rugby and to have the chance to shape that, to be able to influence the shape of that sport, that, that I love so much. It was just such an amazing opportunity and I couldn't… you know, and I have, I had in the past, sat outside the RFU and perhaps criticized it from time to time for things that may or may not have done, you know, and sometimes you got to put your money where your mouth is haven't you and give it a shot.
Sue Anstiss:
And the plan is that England could potentially host the women's world cup in 2025. So where are we in that process? And what do you think that could mean for, for the women's game?
Sue Day:
Yeah, so we are in a process, with World Rugby, which I, I hopefully get this right. Should conclude in, in, in May. So we'll know for sure, whether we whether we're host in, in May, we really want to host this tournament. We just think it can be part of such a catalyst to take the women's game to the, to the next level. So I talk about it in terms of Twickenham Stadium, but this is about the whole of rugby. It's about getting more people playing and just think, you know, you think what we want to do is aim to fill Twickenham Stadium, for a rugby world cup final 80,000 people, all different, different shapes and sizes, different ethnicities, all genders, all ages, such a diverse, exciting set of people watching the game, a stadium full, teams running out anthems playing, hairs going up on the back of your, of your neck. For me, that's just an amazing metaphor for where the women's game can get to. It's gonna help rugby, attract whole new audiences. Is it gonna get so many little boys and girls interested in sport watching, and then hopefully playing, it's gonna get sponsors and broadcasters interested, all of those things. There's just so much opportunity there, um, to, to take women's game to the next level.
Sue Anstiss:
I remember sitting with you at lunch at Twickenham, a few years ago, ahead of an international double header and the man giving the pre-game speech and I won't name names but managed to forget the accomplishments of the female players in the room. And he talked about the men, England men, and their captain, he didn't even get the name of the country, right. In terms of who the women were playing that afternoon. And you were so calm and the other women at the table were ready to call him out and you were really patient. So is that how you feel you've had to be in that senior role at the RFU?
Sue Day:
Gosh, that's, that's a, that's a question! That in I … sometimes. So, the, the, the RFU <laugh> the RFU brought me in as, as, as CFO so it knew it was, it was getting, I, you know, there, there has been a will here to, to take the game into the next century, to, to, to take women's game into the, you know, to, to the, to next level for, for a really long time. And they they brought me in to, to try to be part of that. And they certainly wouldn't have done done that if they didn't, if they didn't want to take the game to the next level. I think in all walks of life, in all places, there's, there's two ways to, to come at issues like that. One, sometimes you need to make them head on, you need to.call it out, whatever the right word is. And other times you need to sort of understand where it's come from and, and use it as a learning opportunity, have conversations with people and make sure it doesn't happen in, again, in that instance, I took, I took the latter option. In other instances, I've taken the former option. I think it's often a, the call you need to make in, in certain times, isn't it, but it's, it's definitely an easy conversation to have. That's what I've loved, being in this role, in this organisation, in this game, and genuinely find that people want to, want to know, it's never a different conversation to have to say did you, did you know, you just, you know, you just missed this out or that, and people will, would want, want to be more inclusive and want to be better, want to get more people involved, kids playing, et cetera. So, yeah, I think, I think a combination of approaches work.
Sue Anstiss:
And how important do you feel male allies are for driving that change in women’s sport and are there enough of them in rugby? And I, I guess I, through my own involvement, I, I do thought, as you've said, it's been very positive in terms of what I've seen within the RFU, but do you feel across rugby, there's enough support there for the women's game?
Sue Day:
I think so. So, so the first part of your question is how important a male ally is. And I think, I think really, important, but they need to be active allies. They need to be advocates. They need to be really got to be pushing in the same direction and, and really, and really pushing the game forward, not just sort of talking about it. So I think active allies you know, we can't do it on our own. We need the whole population of rugby to be pushing this forward and to be shouting about it. Are there enough? No, because there are never enough, are there?
Sue Anstiss:
And in 2016 you spoke to Tammy, we've mentioned Tammy a couple times here on her podcast, and she asked you what was needed for the future success of women's rugby being at the time you said visibility, funding and a strong product, is that the same six years on? Or, or what kinda, how do you think things have progressed since then?
Sue Day:
Yeah, I totally agree with myself. <laugh>, it's, it's exactly that cause they're the sort of the legs of the stool. Aren't they, you create an amazing product and then broadcasters want to broadcast it. That means that people get to see it, people get to see it and it's on the tele sponsors want to sponsor it, that creates more money, which you can then reinvest in back in it in a great product. And, and so the virtuous circle goes on. So I, I think we're exactly there. If I, if I had to pick one of those things, it would be the visibility. Cause I think that's what drives everything else. You know, let's get our game in front of as many people as we possibly can through streaming on the telly, whatever it might be. And, and, and that's because I've got a huge belief in the product, you know, you and I have talked about this. There've been some amazing AP fifteens matches this season, last season. It, it, it already is a great product. Of course it can be better when we invest in it more. And so, but let's get this game in front of as many people's eyes as, as, as we can, because when they see it, they'll fall in love with it and, and we can take it to the next level.
Sue Anstiss:
And just finally, what will it mean to you when we do fill Twickenham for a women's game?
Sue Day:
Goodness, me, I it makes me smile just thinking about it. I, I can't really answer it in… I can answer it in feelings. It will feel, it'll feel amazing. It will feel like we've, we've made, I, I talked about it earlier. You go back to people like Carol Isherwood and Deborah Griffin and the work that they put in to take a few people, few women playing rugby and turn it into a nascent England team. And, and to take it from, that to full Twickenham and professional team playing in front of a, a full stadium with… it would, it, it means that we've, we've made it, it means that little boys and girls everywhere will be able to see those inspirational players playing. You know, and it means that the, the future is, is so bright for the game, the world is rugby's oyster when we've made it there. So I don't think I've answered that question very well, but it'd be such a step change for the game.
Sue Anstiss:
As always, it was such a joy to talk to Sue Day. I know so many people across sport hold her in the highest regard, and I'm so grateful that she made the time to talk to me,
Do visit fearlesswomen.co.uk, where you can find our more about all my guests from this and the previous 8 series.
You can also listen to all the podcasts on the website and find out about the Women’s Sport Collective, a network for all women working in sport.
You can sign up for “Changing The Game” our weekly free newsletter which highlights the developments in women’s sport and there’s more about my book Game On, the Unstoppable rise of women’s sport, also available in all good bookshops.
Thanks again to Sport England for backing of The Game Changers, through the National Lottery, and to Sam Walker who does a great job as our executive producer, along with Rory Auskerry on sound production.
Finally, thanks to my brilliant colleague Kate Hannon, who does so much behind the scenes at Fearless Women.
Do come and say hello on social media, where you will find me on twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @sueanstiss.
The Game Changers. Fearless women in sport.