The Evolution of LIVE Telescope Observing - Fraser Cain on the Future of Astronomy Outreach

Join Dave Farina on The Cosmos Safari Podcast for an in-depth conversation with Fraser Cain, founder and publisher of Universe Today, co-host of Astronomy Cast, and the creator of the long-running Virtual Star Party.

In this episode, we explore how live telescope observing has evolved from its early days of community-driven virtual star parties to today’s era of smart telescopes, remote observing, and AI-assisted astronomy content creation. Fraser shares the challenges of running Universe Today in the age of AI, the struggle to keep science communication human-centered, and his vision for the next phase of online observing—where anyone can access telescopes across the globe in real time.

Whether you’re an amateur astronomer, a STEM educator, or a tech enthusiast curious about the future of astronomy outreach, this episode delivers a fascinating look into how technology and passion for the night sky continue to converge.

Support the show

Support the Show on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/cosmossafari

⚡ Affiliate Links & Support
Some of these products may be linked below — using them helps support the channel at no extra cost to you. 
Highpoint Scientific General Affiliate Link: https://bit.ly/3UMNT9I

Find Dave “Cosmos Safari” 
www.cosmossafari.com
@cosmossafari on 
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cosmossafari
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thecosmossafari/
X - https://twitter.com/CosmosSafari
TikTok

Check out the video version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari

Check out the audio version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari Buzzsprout page
https://cosmossafari.buzzsprout.com

Find Dave “Cosmos Safari” 
www.cosmossafari.com
@cosmossafari on 
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cosmossafari
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thecosmossafari/
X - https://twitter.com/CosmosSafari
TikTok

Transcript

ne to today's episode of

0:01

the Cosmos Safari podcast. I'm thrilled

0:03

to introduce our guest, Fraser Kaine.

0:06

Fraser is the founder and publisher of

0:07

Universe Today, a hugely popular online

0:10

resource that's been bringing space and

0:12

astronomy to the world for over two

0:14

decades. He's also the co-host of

0:16

Astronomy Cast podcast and the host of

0:18

the longrunning virtual star party

0:19

series, which started all the way back

0:21

in 2012 from what I can tell. Today

0:24

we're going to dive into the evolution

0:26

of virtual astronomy and how technology

0:28

has changed that game and what the

0:30

future holds uh for bringing the cosmos

0:33

into everybody's living room or on your

0:35

phone in that uh device or whatever we

0:37

end up having in the future.

0:40

[Music]

0:41

Razer, welcome and thanks for joining

0:43

us.

0:43

Thanks for having me.

0:44

It's been a while. It's been since I

0:46

think 2020 since we really last spoke.

0:48

Yep.

0:50

How's it been going? You've been pretty

0:51

busy.

0:52

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've been very busy. Um,

0:55

I mean, we've had some really dramatic

0:56

changes that have that have impacted

0:58

just the publishing industry. I mean,

The Changing Landscape of Astronomy Media

1:02

the rise of artificial intelligence,

1:04

large language models, and AI has just

1:06

been bananas on on the amount of content

1:10

that's out there, the quality of the

1:12

content, the discourse, uh, how

1:15

publishing works these days, how things

1:18

are monetized.

1:20

uh you know like being a publisher in

1:22

the in this world today is really tricky

1:26

and the sources of revenue are drying up

1:30

very very quickly. We're seeing a lot of

1:31

publishers go out of business and you

1:33

know we were kind of on the same

1:34

trajectory. I would say 6 months ago, we

1:38

were I was sort of figuring out how I

1:40

was going to wrap up Universe Today

1:41

because the trajectory was clearly in

1:45

freefall and you know my advertising

1:47

revenue had dropped by about 90%. Over

1:50

the last 3 years or so and it was just

1:54

like not sustainable like I couldn't do

1:56

this and hire people and continue to do

1:58

the level of reporting that we did. And

2:01

about 6 months ago, I was like, "Okay, I

2:05

sort of was honest with everybody, our

2:06

audience, and just said like, this is

2:08

what we face." And and so I'm going to

2:10

remove all the ads from the website

2:12

because, you know, they don't pay us

2:14

very much anyway, and make a

2:15

dramatically cleaner existence. No ads

2:17

in the podcast, no ads on the

2:19

newsletter. Everything's going to be

2:20

free. Creative Commons 4.0, use it for

2:22

whatever you want, but we need to have

2:25

patrons instead. And so the way we make

2:27

this work is that you you sort of donate

2:31

on a regular basis to produce the

2:33

content that we do. And the the

2:36

community responded perfectly. It was

2:38

amazing. And overnight what was an

2:41

existential threat was now, okay, I can

2:43

work with this, right? This is

2:44

sustainable. I can continue to pay the

2:46

salaries of all the journalists. I can

2:47

pay the salaries of the people that work

2:49

on our videos that produce our podcasts.

2:53

I don't quite draw a salary, but you

2:55

know, that's fine. That's how it works

2:56

as a as the owner of the business um in

2:59

this sort of crisis. And then we sort of

3:02

are out the other side of this now. So,

3:04

so things feel really good and totally

3:06

sustainable. And so now, you know,

3:08

instead of me being having to deal with

3:11

the whims of the publishing industry, of

3:14

Google taking away the clicks and

3:17

replacing it with AI overviews, the

3:21

absolute rise of of endless amounts of

3:23

AI slop, the um increasing

3:28

control by the advertisers,

3:31

you know, social media companies trying

3:34

to turn everything into walled gardens.

3:35

Like there's all of these forces that

3:38

are working against being able to spend

3:42

time and energy and knowledge and

3:44

expertise in producing space in

3:46

astronomy news and shifting into

3:50

whatever is this sort of mass media

3:51

garbage that is being generated.

3:54

We're able to now just rise above it and

3:56

I don't have to think about any of it

3:57

anymore. I just like what do we what is

3:59

every day I just think what is the best

Responsible vs. Reckless Use of AI

4:01

coverage that we can do for our

4:03

audience? how do we get there? And I

4:06

don't really think about anything else,

4:08

which is great.

4:09

Now, that being said, have you been

4:12

using AI in any ways that are beneficial

4:15

to you as kind of like a way of of

4:18

capturing what you do?

4:19

So, yeah, I mean, like I am not an

4:21

anti-AI person. I am an anti- bad use of

4:25

AI person, right? And so, there are

4:27

perfectly responsible ways that you can

4:29

use AI.

4:31

It's and it's fairly nuanced. So, you

4:34

can have the AI help you understand a

4:38

concept or understand research, but you

4:42

have to realize that it's a lying liar

4:44

that lies. And so, you need to to double

4:46

check the things that it's telling you

4:48

to make sure that you're not falling

4:49

into some kind of trap with it

4:50

hallucinating. You can have it

4:53

clean up your grammar, fix your spelling

4:55

mistakes, but don't let it write for you

4:57

because it is a very, very bad writer.

5:00

um you can have it help you create

5:02

software, but don't think that you're

5:04

going to create software that's going to

5:05

be bulletproof and secure and able to

5:08

stand the test of time. You're looking

5:09

for stuff that's throwaway that's going

5:11

to allow you to to quickly, you know,

5:14

pull something together that solves a

5:15

problem that you have right now and then

5:17

you can just dispose of it. Um don't

5:20

have it draw pictures for you because it

5:23

is you know the the

5:26

the intellectual property has been

5:29

yes definitely

5:30

you know has been uh stripmined

5:33

for

5:35

the ability to draw these pictures don't

5:37

make it generate video for you same

5:39

thing right which is that we we are not

5:41

confident on the uh on the intellectual

5:44

property that's been used to train these

5:45

things so so I think that there you know

5:47

we're in this sort of weird time where

5:51

it's not great and has some interesting

5:55

value that you can bring to the table,

5:57

but I think a lot of people are just

5:58

overly relying on it. They're saying,

5:59

"This is a magic tool that does

6:01

everything that we need and now we can

6:02

just let it pump out article after

6:04

article, but it's creating garbage,

6:06

right?" And and I think in the near term

6:09

this is going to negatively impact the

6:12

audience that people and I see this

6:15

already. People go to YouTube and

6:16

they're and they're trying to look for

6:18

for videos to watch about important

6:21

things that are happening right now like

6:22

the comet 3i atlas that is passing

6:24

through the solar system and they are

6:28

finding tons and tons of AI slot videos

6:30

and people that are just making nonsense

6:31

and and then they don't know what's true

6:33

anymore. Right? And we're over here

6:35

going, "Okay, we're, you know,

6:36

everything we do is humanmade. We're,

6:38

you know, we're very carefully trying to

6:40

curate this news, and we just are lost

6:43

in the noise." And so, it's really hard

6:44

for people to know what's good, what's

6:46

bad, and so on. So, yeah, it's a it's a

6:48

pretty tricky time. You know, I don't

6:50

have a problem with people using AI. I

6:51

just have people problem with people

6:53

using AI badly.

6:55

Yep. I'm using it uh mostly to capture

6:59

what I say because I've been doing a lot

7:03

more off-the cuff type of content. So,

7:06

I'm not, you know, for a while I had,

7:09

you know, been typing up a script even

7:11

at sometimes. And I've gotten away from

7:14

that. I mean, I'm I teach during the

7:15

day. I talk for a living. I don't really

7:18

have a problem with y

7:19

just thinking on my feet. And so I've

7:21

I've kind of been freed of the shackles

7:24

of a of a script and a teleprompter

7:26

which has been amazing. Me too. And

7:28

yeah, I I haven't sort of pulled up my

7:30

teleprompter in a long long time that

7:33

everything I do is now just a bunch of

7:35

notes and then I just free form

7:36

write bullet points and things like

7:38

that. And so I've let it kind of read

7:41

and transcribe my videos and then from

7:43

there it's been doing a number of

7:46

things. It's been helping me with

7:47

descriptions. It's been helping me

7:49

determine where are good areas for uh

7:52

chapters in my in my content.

7:54

Yeah, that all Yeah, that's all just

7:56

grunt work that you that you would have

7:58

to do and you wouldn't even have to put

Smart Technology and the Rise of Live Telescope Streams

8:00

a lot of thought into it. So, that all

8:02

sounds perfectly fine to me. Speaking

8:03

about smart technology, um back in 2020

8:07

when we first kind of crossed paths, I

8:10

had joined um I think it was three

8:13

different star parties or or live

8:15

telescope viewing sessions

8:18

and I coming to this conversation today,

8:21

I just kind of wanted to get an

8:23

understanding of where you're at with

8:25

the smart telescope game and how you

8:28

kind of see how this has changed our

8:30

ability to share our universe with, you

8:32

know, everyone and how it has changed uh

8:36

from the person who's trying to run said

8:38

Starwatch uh

8:41

you know to to complicate not to

8:43

complicate but to uh simplify I should

8:46

say the process of actually getting up

8:48

and running because I remember although

8:51

I was on three separate live telescope

8:54

viewing sessions I wasn't very

8:56

productive for you in those sessions

8:58

because I kept having problems with my

9:00

gear

9:01

and so this is a different world that we

9:04

live in now. And

9:05

I'd say it's pretty close still. It's a

9:07

little better, but not much.

9:08

Okay.

9:09

Yeah. Yeah. The, you know, what you're

9:12

talking about are the virtual star

9:13

parties when we were broadcasting live

9:15

views from telescopes out onto the

9:17

internet and people were, you know, we

9:19

were hanging out and chatting about them

9:20

and switching to different pictures and

9:22

show showing them off and taking

9:23

requests and all of that kind of stuff,

9:25

right? And it was wonderful. Like it was

9:27

really resonating with the audience and

9:28

people really enjoyed it. But

9:30

technically it was brutal to try to

9:33

bring these things together. You had the

9:36

individual astronomers who ha you know

9:39

who had better and worse personalities

9:41

in just being able had more better and

9:44

less experience in being able to present

9:47

information to an audience. And then

9:49

they had the challenges that they had to

9:51

deal with the gear which was distracting

9:52

them. So that they were like am I

9:54

talking right now or am I wrestling with

9:56

my gear? And it was a very challenging

9:58

experience to make the whole thing run

The Birth and Struggles of the Virtual Star Party

10:00

very smoothly. And then you had the

10:02

weather variation. So somebody might be

10:04

really good and ready to go and got

10:05

great gear, but they've got bad weather,

10:06

so they can't show up.

10:08

And then it's just a um it's a very

10:11

challenging

10:13

onus on people to have them be able to

10:15

show up and do this work. So, so it was,

10:19

you know, it went great for a couple of

10:20

years and then eventually it just got to

10:23

the point where where I would have 20

10:25

astronomers in the list who would who,

10:28

you know, I had sent the notification

10:30

for them to show up if they could and

10:32

nobody would show up for whatever

10:34

reason. People were busy, gear wasn't

10:36

working, weather was bad, they just

10:37

didn't want to do it, whatever. Which is

10:38

fine. You know, there everybody was

10:40

volunteers including me. So it's not

10:42

like we were, you know, there were any,

10:44

it's not like anybody's job to do this.

10:47

So

10:48

we tried. So we went for about three or

10:51

four years and then we wrapped it up

10:52

just because it was too difficult. And

10:54

then it's funny um my friend Dylan

10:57

O'Donnell uh in Australia tried to do

11:01

the same thing, same model, just let's

11:03

organize some people, let's show their

11:05

telescopes. And he also was like, "Nope,

11:07

I can't do this anymore. This is just

11:09

this too much hurting cats." And then uh

11:11

Nancy Graiano, who was a a producer for

11:14

us, really loved the star parties and

11:16

she was like, "Okay, I'm going to do it.

11:17

I'm going to herd the cats." And we

11:19

tried again and we went for a couple of

11:21

months and then she was like, "Nope, I'm

11:22

out. I can't do it." So we had to wrap

11:24

it up again. And then about

11:29

five years ago,

11:31

um, uh, Oceanside Photo and Telescope

11:34

when it was a thing, the the leader of

11:38

OPT,

11:39

um,

11:41

sort of offered a telescope that I could

11:42

use permanently, like, you know, he or

11:45

when he wasn't using it and then I could

11:48

just sort of remote in and be able to

11:49

actually use the telescope and that

11:51

worked pretty well, but we still had the

11:54

weather issues and so if the weather was

11:55

good, then it was great, and if it

11:56

wasn't, it was. But we ran into all

11:58

kinds of technical issues, and it was

12:00

pretty far off the grid. The Wi-Fi was

12:01

pretty bad, and so it was it was a very

12:03

frustrating experience. And then most

12:06

recently, maybe about a year and a half

12:07

ago, I talked to Starfront, which is a

12:11

new collocation telescope facility out

12:14

of Texas. And they were really excited

12:17

about the idea of of me being able to do

12:19

live streams from their telescopes and

12:21

and be able to um you know, share this

12:24

with the world. And then obviously, you

12:26

know, people would find out about what

12:27

they what they're doing at Starfront.

12:29

And they gave me access to a couple of

The Role of Partnerships and Remote Observing

12:31

great telescopes. One was a Celestron

12:34

first star. No, is that it? First scope.

12:38

First star. The

12:40

uh the one that's the new smart

12:42

telescope.

12:43

Yeah, the their smart telescope. Yeah.

12:45

Yeah. Origins. The origins. That's it.

12:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I had the

12:47

Celestron Origins

12:49

and then they had a planetary scope that

12:51

they were letting me use and both had

12:54

just so many problems. like they were

12:57

amazing telescopes, but Celestron, the

13:00

only way you can control the origins

13:01

telescope is with an app. And so you

13:03

have to like run the app virtually

13:04

inside of a computer and then the app

13:06

tries to obfuscate where the files are

13:08

being stored on the computer. So it's

13:10

really hard to get the images off of the

13:12

computer and display them. Like

13:15

it was it was a technical nightmare to

13:17

be able to try to do this and be able to

13:20

put on a show at the same time. like I

13:22

can either focus on

13:24

working my way through the technical

13:26

challenges to be able to deal with this

13:27

or I can share stuff with people. So,

13:30

and then the goal was to then get more

13:32

more telescopes. But then we just ran

13:34

into the same problem which was trying

13:35

to get people to show up on time and

13:37

have their gear ready and have their

13:38

weather was good and be able to do this.

13:40

So, you know, we're we were kind of

13:42

lurching forward in that path. And so,

13:44

we're on hiatus again. Um, you know,

13:47

there's a new idea that we're working on

13:49

where we might be able to use um, sea

13:52

stars, which are which are really cool

13:54

telescopes. I've got one behind me right

13:58

there. Um, and that people would be able

14:01

to like we could be have an interface

14:04

that's very usable and and and anyone

14:07

can kind of log in and use it and then

14:09

and then we don't have to worry about

14:10

the different gear. we just everybody

14:12

gets a sea star and we all will point at

14:15

different targets and see what we can

14:16

see and have a good time and just chat

14:18

about it. And so that's sort of the the

14:20

most modern

14:23

implementation of the idea, but the sea

14:25

stars are the same thing as the origins,

14:27

which is that they're designed to be

14:29

controlled through a phone or on a

14:30

computer. They're not designed to be

14:32

controlled remotely. And so I've been

14:34

spending the last 6 months or so trying

14:37

to hack together and figure out a way

14:39

that you can control the sea star

14:40

remotely through the internet in a way

14:43

that is a nice reliable easy to use

14:46

experience so that people can can come

14:47

together to use these telescopes and be

14:49

able to to live stream them and and I

14:51

have not solved this problem yet. So we

14:53

are currently on hiatus again while we

14:56

try to figure out and like what all we

14:58

need is a easy telescope that's

The Modern Era: Smart Telescopes and the Quest for Accessible Remote Observing

15:01

accessible from the internet that you

15:03

can let anybody log in and use and they

15:05

can just control the telescope and the

15:07

pipeline is very simple to do and the

15:09

files are deposited in a certain place.

15:12

It's not that complicated when you

15:14

consider how sophisticated all of the

15:16

other parts of the puzzle are. And yet

15:19

here we are um

15:21

13 years ago, 13 years after we started

15:24

doing the virtual star parties. And I

15:27

always kind of feel like I'm back to

15:28

square one. And this is of course, you

15:30

know, because I am using a,

15:34

you know, like there's no budget, right?

15:36

It's not like anyone's giving me money

15:37

to do this kind of thing. I'm just

15:38

trying to figure this out through by any

15:40

means necessary. And so this is where we

15:43

this is where we are now.

15:44

All right. So, so is the sea star that

15:47

you're hoping to use the one behind you

15:49

or are you trying to offload that to a

15:52

different location?

15:52

Yeah. So, this is a thing that I'm

15:54

trying to do with Starfront because

15:55

they've got sea stars in their facility.

15:57

And so, but they're designed to work

15:59

with a phone with a with a phone or a

16:01

computer. They're not designed to be

16:04

easily accessible from a remote through

16:06

the internet in a way that is reliable

16:09

and easy to use and doesn't give you

16:11

sort of too much control over the device

16:12

and so on. like like how do you let a

16:15

person come in control the sea star and

16:17

then move on? So So we're still kind of,

16:20

you know, trying to figure this out.

16:22

We'll figure it out at some point. I I

16:24

did visit their website because I

16:25

noticed that you had been using their

16:27

facilities for this purpose of doing the

16:29

live telescope viewing and it does show

16:31

up on their website as an option. So

16:33

they're they're

16:35

capable of doing it to some degree, but

16:36

is it live streaming component that's

16:38

the most challenging part?

16:40

Yep. Yeah. I I don't know.

16:42

Yeah. Okay.

16:45

So, what com if you had, you know, a

16:48

dream of what this would look like from

16:51

like a a

16:53

software perspective, like what what

16:55

would it be able to do that it's

16:58

currently not doing? Well, so I mean the

The Dream Platform for Astronomy Outreach

17:01

dream is that you take a bunch of people

17:02

who are interested in astronomy and you

17:06

give them a login so they can log into a

17:08

a telescope and the telescope is a very

17:11

easy to use interface that allows them

17:13

to pick targets and then watch the

17:16

images be created in front of them and

17:18

then then they download them and keep

17:19

them.

17:20

That's it. That's it. And and share what

17:23

they're what they're doing.

17:25

Yeah. in a way that can then be pulled

17:27

together into a larger show.

17:29

Right. So, so like I'm using uh I've

17:32

I've used the Dwarf

17:34

3.

17:35

Uh I've I've I've talked to some people

17:38

about the Sea Star, but I haven't ever

17:40

had a chance to work with one my myself

17:42

at this point, but I'm very familiar

17:44

with the ZWOO's interface and how that

17:46

works. Uh I currently have a smart eye,

17:49

which is pretty neat. So, um, the one

17:51

thing that I'm kind of noticing that's

17:53

different about that is that it does

17:55

have the, uh, ASCOM alpaca mode. So, you

17:59

can shift over to doing more of a

18:01

traditional imaging type of thing. So, I

18:04

and and troll it from

18:06

uh, various different

18:08

interfaces. So, that might be an option

18:11

that I'm going to be looking at because

18:13

the reason I asked you about this is

18:15

because I'm a glutton for punishment

18:17

also and have considered, you know,

18:20

starting to do some live observing

18:22

myself.

18:22

So, great.

18:24

Using using my my StreamYard here that

18:26

I'm currently working on uh to make a

18:28

podcast, I could do live streaming. I

Dave's Reflections on Streaming and Smart Scopes

18:31

just I just don't do it very often.

18:33

Yeah. No, but like like I think if it's

18:35

one person with dark skies and the and

18:38

the telescope is nearby,

18:40

then I think then it's a relatively easy

18:43

experience,

18:43

right?

18:44

But if it's if you're trying to pull

18:46

like the point with the star parties is

18:48

we were trying to pull together multiple

18:50

people at the same time to make an

18:53

experience. I just think

18:55

from one person,

18:57

you know, just trying to conceive of a

18:59

way that people could share within these

19:01

platforms like with if it's going to be

19:03

through a phone. Um, you know, it's it's

19:06

one thing to go to like Starfront and

19:08

try to connect to them separately, but

19:10

but if if each person has their, you

19:13

know, their telescope with them, uh, it

19:16

would be nice if some of these software

19:18

that are running these devices would

19:20

have an integrated ability to to kind of

19:23

join together and, you know, a room

19:26

a room that you could join, you know.

19:28

Yeah. Yeah. They just don't like like I

19:29

think they just don't it doesn't occur

19:31

to them the comp like it doesn't occur

19:33

to to ZWO that makes the sea star that

19:36

you would want to set up your telescope

19:38

and control it remotely

19:40

like it just it just doesn't even cross

19:42

their radar.

19:44

Sure.

19:44

Right. when obviously obviously you'd

19:46

want to take your sea star, you'd want

19:48

to put it into under really dark skies,

19:49

make it really robust that you can

19:51

control it and then you you go back home

19:53

and then you control your telescope

19:56

right from your your living room or

19:58

whatever.

19:58

Over the years that you've been doing

20:00

this, what

20:03

I mean you've started and stopped this

20:06

enough times. I think you have a a

20:08

passion for it. So, what has been the

20:10

response that you get from the audience

20:12

that like people that aren't actually

20:14

doing

Fraser’s Advice to Educators and Amateur Astronomers

20:15

Oh, they love it work.

20:16

Yeah, they love it. They people think

20:18

it's one of the coolest things they've

20:19

ever seen.

20:20

Yeah. I mean, they don't have access to

20:22

this type of stuff and we do. So, it's

20:23

like that's that's why I like to share

20:25

that kind of stuff is

20:26

Yeah. totally. Yeah. People think it's

20:28

phenomenal. They love it.

20:30

And and when you're doing one of these

20:32

live telescope observing sessions, um

20:35

where do you generally kind of host it?

20:37

Do you host it all over the place or

20:39

you're mostly on YouTube or how do you

20:40

generally

20:41

I just Yeah, I host it on YouTube.

20:43

Yeah. And do do you announce when you do

20:46

these types of things because you're

20:48

talking about

20:48

Yeah. I mean, like that's that's always

20:49

the challenge, right? Which is

20:51

you want to announce in advance that

20:53

you're going to do a thing that's

20:55

dependent on weather and gear, but

20:57

that's what we do. And then we just we

20:59

say, "Nope, it's not it's not happening.

21:00

Didn't work."

21:02

I think it'd be really cool, you know.

21:03

Um, so Sky Safari is like what's running

21:07

in the background for uh the smart eye

21:11

and you know there's a relatively large

21:13

number of people who use that and it

21:15

would be really cool if we had as I said

21:18

kind of a room that you could go to even

21:21

within a platform you know it does kind

21:23

of walled garden a little bit um where

21:27

this is able to be interacted with but

21:29

if you could have one place where you

21:31

know whether it's ZWO sea or or the

21:34

Smart Eye or the Dwarf Lab. Um, but just

21:37

have within that platform the ability to

21:38

to collaborate with that similar device

21:41

and you know maybe even from there then

21:43

it hosts to like YouTube or something

21:44

like that.

21:46

Then at least you can the collaborative

21:47

part is is is kind of out of the way and

21:50

the ability to share it still to those

21:52

other platforms would be would be pretty

21:54

neat.

21:55

Totally. Uh

21:57

yeah. Yeah. Like it's just I think

22:00

I mean nobody has so far made an

22:04

effortless solution for this,

22:07

right? So you go the one I've sort of

22:08

imagine different routes. You can um you

22:12

know there's an API that lets you

22:13

connect to a sea star and I've tried

22:15

hacking the API to get it to do what I

22:17

need and it's it's been kind of I've

22:19

been mildly successful but but it wasn't

22:21

robust and it wasn't working the way

22:22

that I wanted to. You could go down the

22:24

ASCOM route and and have your own

22:28

completely,

22:29

you know, you control the camera, the

The Future of Astronomy Collaboration

22:31

the mount and the all of the various

22:34

components of a telescope. And then you

22:36

figure out a way to get all that piped

22:37

into a custom interface that allows you

22:39

to control it in a way that's very

22:40

simple and easy to use and integrates

22:42

with a tool that lets you find objects

22:45

in the sky. Like there's there's

22:47

different ways this could be done, but

22:49

none of them are are easy to do in my

22:52

spare time. Exactly.

22:53

With my current level of knowledge with

22:55

no budget,

22:56

right?

22:57

Yeah.

22:57

Right.

22:58

So, so you know, I pick away at it and

23:00

and wait for the right, you know, I'm

23:02

always evaluating the technologies that

23:04

are out there and I'm waiting for the

23:05

right one, the best one. If a software

23:07

company wants to take this on,

23:09

like, you know, as you say, Skyari,

23:11

whatever, right? And be able to that

23:13

have the interface of the sky be the way

23:16

that you navigate the things you want to

23:18

look at. That would be amazing, right? M

23:21

and then the telescope follows

23:24

what the interface to the um to the

23:28

thing is showing you, right?

23:30

You can do all sorts of stuff with that.

23:31

You know, you could have people kind of

23:33

request in, you know, certain objects

23:35

and like vote on what they want to see

23:37

next and

23:38

Yeah. Or Yeah. Or even just as a way to

23:39

control your own sea star or your own

23:42

smart telescope, right? That you you

23:44

have the app, you you pick but but like

23:47

you need to have the thing be available

23:48

on the computer. things need to be able

23:50

to like how do you if you're using it on

23:51

an app, how do you get the view of the

23:54

app?

23:55

So, the way it's currently

23:56

streaming out to OBS,

23:58

the way it's currently working is that

23:59

you can you can interface with it uh the

Behind the Scenes of Universe Today

24:03

C the smart eye through your browser on

24:06

any device.

24:07

So, that's kind of a different take on

24:10

it.

24:11

Currently, you need to be on the same

24:13

network. that see

24:14

uh but that's that's where you know it

24:17

would become more challenging but

24:20

you know there's there are some

24:22

workarounds there but it's a little

24:23

easier to do a work on with another

24:25

computer than it is a phone or tablet.

24:28

So

24:29

yeah, but it's it's like the same Yeah,

24:31

it's the same issue, right? which is

24:33

that you need to um you need to be able

24:36

to have the computer be remote

24:40

and it needs to be very easy to use and

24:43

then you need to be able to um to be

24:46

able to have the control of the thing be

24:49

be you so that you can broadcast it with

24:52

something like uh OBS or Streamlab or

24:56

whatever, right? that there's like

24:58

things that need to be all functioning.

25:00

And you know, a lot of these companies,

25:04

it's it's just like literally never

25:05

occurred to them

25:06

that you would want a more robust way of

25:09

controlling the telescope than your

25:11

iPhone.

25:12

Sure.

25:13

It's just like, wait, what? You want to

25:15

do what? You don't want You want to sit

25:17

with a computer that has all of the

25:19

processing power and all this capability

25:21

and has this these hard drives and has

25:22

this high-speed connection to the

25:24

internet and this ability to connect

25:25

various external devices into it. You

25:27

want to do that as opposed to be

25:29

completely limited by what's possible

25:31

with a phone.

25:32

Yeah.

25:33

Yeah.

25:33

So,

25:35

you know, as I start to kind of dive in

25:37

into this and dip my toe into the world

25:39

that you've been doing for a number of

25:41

years, uh I would really love to have

25:43

you on at some point if you're

25:45

interested in doing um you know,

25:47

something with me. Uh this is

25:51

a dream that I've had now for a number

25:52

of years of of bringing this kind of

25:54

stuff back because as I said we we

25:57

worked you know I was trying to help you

25:59

with the star parties back in 2020 and

Final Thoughts & Farewell

26:02

it it it kind of failed on me and I'm

26:04

not okay with that.

26:05

Yeah. I mean you experience firsthand

26:08

what it's like to have the technical

26:09

failure of your gear.

26:11

Right. So then the next level is that

26:14

you're trying to manage a show where

26:17

various people are experiencing

26:18

technical failures of their gear and

26:21

trying to make it a consistent

26:22

experience for people. It's brutal. It's

26:24

brutally tough.

26:25

It is brutal. It's it's enough when

26:27

you're, you know, out under the stars

26:29

and you are having technical

26:31

difficulties and you're frustrated

26:32

because you can't get something to work.

26:34

But it's another thing to be live

26:35

streaming it through the internet for

26:37

everybody to see you fail.

26:38

How's it going? Have you figured that

26:39

out yet? No. Still having technical

26:40

issues. Okay, we'll come back to you

26:42

later.

26:42

Exactly. Exactly.

26:44

So, so it's just like for me it just

26:47

never felt good enough. Never felt

26:50

acceptable and and wasn't worth sort of

26:55

expending the energy in this place where

26:58

I couldn't think of an easy way to get

26:59

it. Not even easy way. I couldn't think

27:01

of a way to get get it to what I knew it

27:04

needed to be. And it's just like, well,

27:06

you know, I've got other priorities. So,

27:07

for now, I'll let that sit and I'll come

27:10

back to that idea when I feel like the

27:12

technology is ready to go. I mean, I

27:14

think like like the idea is still sound.

27:16

I feel like it's the best idea I've ever

27:17

had, right? That that it's this

27:20

wonderful place where you can take

27:22

people who are excited about the night

27:23

sky and you can connect them with actual

27:26

telescopes so they can learn just how

27:28

this technology works to bring us these

27:30

pictures that everybody is so fascinated

27:32

and are excited about. But we're not at

27:36

the place where it's still a dependable

27:40

and reliable enough experience that it's

27:43

it's worth trying to put on a regular

27:45

show. It's fine for, you know, if you

27:48

have your own telescope and you want to

27:49

do some streaming and people are can

27:50

accept the highs and lows of that,

27:52

that's fine. But but for me the you know

27:56

I think we're still a few more

27:57

technological leaps to get to the point

27:59

where this really is this truly

28:01

accessible

28:03

robust uh process but we'll get there I

28:06

think. Well uh as I said I'd really love

28:09

to have you on again some point once we

28:12

you know hopefully have some of this

28:13

technology in place where we can maybe

28:16

do some of these live streamed uh

28:18

telescope observations and

28:20

Awesome. and uh when I do, I'll I'll

28:23

certainly be in touch.

28:24

I I look forward to your struggles.

28:26

All right. Thank you so much for coming

28:28

on. All right. Take care.

28:29

If you're still listening and like this

28:30

podcast, please consider becoming one of

28:33

our Patreon patrons. Memberships start

28:35

as low as $3 per month with benefits

28:38

including opportunities to ask questions

28:40

of our guests. Also, please consider

28:42

liking, subscribing, and sharing this

28:44

podcast to help us bring the universe

28:46

even closer than you think.