Explore The Universe Like a Pro - Observatory Automation and Radio Astronomy with PrimaLuceLab

Discover the future of observatory automation in this episode featuring PrimaLuceLab CEO Filippo Bradaschia. We dive into professional-grade technology for amateur astronomers, from radio astronomy to tracking LEO satellites and the Artemis program missions.

Episode Summary:
The Cosmos Safari Podcast explores the intersection of geoscience and space exploration. We dive into how PrimaLuceLab is revolutionizing the hobby with the EAGLE6 control unit, allowing for full remote control and sophisticated radio astronomy from your own backyard.

Key Discussion Points:
- Space Situational Awareness (SSA): Why amateurs are now essential for tracking the growing number of LEO satellites.
- Artemis Program Impact: How the return to the Moon is driving a new era of high-resolution Lunar geology and moon mapping.
- Radio Astronomy: Using the SPIDER radio telescope system to capture data from Cassiopeia A and the Sun.
- Observatory Gear: Solving the "cable mess" for automated, remote imaging sessions. 

Explore the Universe through astrophotography: capturing pictures with telescopes and PLAY software - 3rd Edition eBook

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Find Dave “Cosmos Safari” at www.cosmossafari.com

@cosmossafari on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari 

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Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thecosmossafari/ 

X - https://twitter.com/CosmosSafari 

Check out the video version of this podcast on the Cosmos Safari YouTube Channel www.youtube.com/c/cosmossafari

Transcript

Introduction: Connecting Italy to the US
0:00
Today's episode is something special. I'm sitting down with Filipo Burdosia, the CEO and scientist behind Primoluche
0:08
Lab and also Tom Bramwell, their US director of operations and also an
0:13
accomplished astrophotographer. We're going to be talking about lots of different things including deep sky
0:19
imaging, EAA outreach, radio telescopes, and even full observatory automation.
0:28
So, thank you so much, Fippo and Tom, for coming. I am really excited to have you here. We've had [clears throat] a
0:34
number of times that we uh have met over the years, and it's great to finally have you on the Cosmos [music] Safari
0:41
podcast. So, welcome. It's good to Thank you very much. Thank you. It's great to be here and connecting Italy to
0:48
California. Yep. All the way here to Pennsylvania. So, we we're really stretching uh all
0:54
the different time zones right now to make this happen. So, thank you for uh Tom for being up so early and Felippo
1:00
for staying so late [laughter] uh and making this this happen for us. [music] So, uh

Filippo’s Geoscience Background: Earth meets Sky
1:05
as we, you know, start to get into this, I I wanted to mention Fippo, your background in geocciences
1:13
is something that we both share in common. Um my background in geosciences, I ended up becoming an educator. uh
1:20
you've kind of gone in a different direction with uh Primal Luche Lab. So
1:26
yeah, I just thought it'd be interesting to ask you know how has the scientific
1:31
background that you have influenced the beginnings of Primaluche Lab and tell us
1:36
a little bit about that. Oh, well that that's a lot. But it's essentially I'm I
1:41
study geologist. So I I study my geological studies influenced a lot of
1:47
my well how I approach uh everything related to astronomy with a scientific
1:55
mindset essentially uh because I like to study. I like to discover something new.
2:00
I like to explore. Uh but from a when I was very young a boy I loved both the
2:08
sky and the earth. So it was natural natural to me to start study the earth
2:15
but also with an eye at the sky. So I was very interested from when when I was
2:22
very young to geology of the moon. This is this is my thing because it really
2:28
merges the two uh things that I love the most that is earth and the sky. Um so
2:37
still I I'm a I'm an astrophotographer you know I like to use telescopes I like

The Science Mindset in Astrophotography
2:42
to develop my own stuff that I want to use as an astrophotographer. Uh but my my love for uh moon geology,
2:53
the exploration, the human exploration of the moon
2:58
in the 60s and 70s and everything related to that is is great. This is really what merges
3:06
my love for astronomy and geology. Yeah, I I have not had as much interest with
3:13
the moon as I probably should have over the years, and I'm starting to get interested more and more and I'm reading
3:19
more about it, especially with the Aremis program and the potential for going back to the moon. Um, and of
3:25
course, sci-fi uh is getting on board with that too [laughter] now. And so, I've watched some shows that relate to
3:31
that. And it's kind of neat to see, you know, where we kind of were and kind of
3:38
where we are now and how fast we're catching back up to that, you know, space race time period. And, you know,
3:46
it's it's kind of going to be a next maybe decade or so of just a rush to get
3:51
back there. I can't wait to see what it's going to look like. I I think we are going to make it happen full time
3:58
now. and the discoveries, you know, we visited there. We've never really done
4:03
there. We visited, we touched down, we took back off again. Um, to be able to study it in situ and and actually, you
4:10
know, have a main uh program that's dedicated to full-time people on the
4:16
moon is going to be neat. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's uh to me when I see
4:22
the moon in high res I love to see that of course because this is what I when I
4:27
take pictures I always think about from a geological point of view from a geom mapping point of view I should say or
4:34
moon mapping point of view [laughter] but yeah I I I cannot wait to see
4:40
something really artificial on the moon. How much time do we need with our for in
4:46
the future for to see something on the moon with our telescopes? Yeah. Some city on the moon.
4:53
Yeah. Yeah. Right. You see the night the nighttime side and there's there's like lights city light. There you go. Sometimes when
5:01
when you think about uh the uh uh resolution on the surface, I think uh um
5:08
I mean we we we are able to record um crers that are less than one than 1
5:15
kilometers on the moon. It means if a large city with some light, we should be
5:20
able to see that. Why not? It should happen. It I I think it will
5:26
happen in in in our lifetime. So, let's see that. It's It's funny.
5:31
Can't wait. Tom, and you're an astrophotographer. You know, Filippo, you're an astrophotographer. In our deep sky

Lunar Geology: Why the Moon isn't just "Light Pollution"
5:36
objects, the moon is like the enemy. Yeah.
5:41
[laughter] Filippo's love because to me, the moon is a bit of my nemesis. So, I
5:47
Yeah, that's that's correct. I like to see the joy. Such a thing, especially, you know,
5:53
I like to see the joy in his face when he talks about it. That's all I know. [laughter]
6:00
Yeah, it's it is. But uh I mean it's it's a great uh object to study. I I
6:06
love showing my kids also uh all the geological features on the moon and to
6:13
see faults, to see domes, to see where
6:19
uh Apollo landed, the exact position where they landed. I mean, we've been
6:24
there and they've been there to really and to also to study the moon. Of course
6:31
it was a political [clears throat] thing blah blah blah whatever exploration you know but
6:37
everything that was we gained so much knowledge related to
6:43
the moon that we know a lot more and I I I cannot wait and see [clears throat]
6:49
what the Artameis program will be able to to to to gain related to knowledge of
6:55
the moon because we've been in there for short very short periods of time and we
7:01
discovered so many new things related to the moon. If we stay, it will be wow,
7:07
incredible, right? We'll see. Right. So, as we kind of like are going back to
7:15
the moon, all of the technologies that I think we're already interested in as people who do this astrophotography
7:22
thing, I think are going to become very popular and, you know, just with the general public, when you have the
7:29
ability to look at the moon and have the knowledge that there are people up there, you know, I think it's going to
7:35
make a big difference. And with the smart telescopes coming out and what you guys do uh with more advanced equipment,
7:42
you know, I think that this hobby is is kind of in its infancy really. And I'm
7:49
excited to see how it changes our hobby with more people coming in. The access is getting easier um with software that

Artemis Program & The Future of Human Lunar Presence
7:56
you know is now available versus what we've used over the last two decades or so. Oh yeah. you know, and uh yeah, I I
8:03
I think this space race is going to be also a big boom for the astronomy community. So, I know my kids are
8:10
already interested. Um my little guy, he's three and he's already looking up at the moon um through
8:15
Okay, great. Look for fun. [laughter] Yeah, that's why it's exciting for us is because we're starting to build some of
8:22
these larger antennas that can track low Earth orbit satellites and even uh track
8:28
rocket telemetry up and down uh things like that. So, the the mounts and things
8:34
that that drive these these big dishes are fast enough to track low Earth orbit
8:40
satellites, which is correct, which is a huge deal, right? you know, we have to be able to know where all
8:46
this stuff is at. Yeah. Installed at our space center in Italy
8:51
and um and we're doing work there. Yeah. It's a part of the work that we
8:58
are doing here in Primalucha Lab is essentially to um not not only to
9:03
develop telescopes used for astrophotography
9:08
education but to push even more to the space application. you know to really to
9:14
support space missions because if you develop a technology as precise as a
9:20
space mission related application requires essentially still a telescope. It may be
9:27
bigger it may request higher precision in pointing tracking or whatever
9:32
different type of application but still these are telescopes. So when we talk to
9:38
space people, we describe this as ground stations because these are the system
9:44
that really supports their missions from the ground. But still they are optical
9:50
telescopes or radio telescopes and we refer to them as radio telescopes
9:56
like the spider radio telescopes that we developed for radstronomy applications.
10:01
These are for schools uh for the education, you know, to let them own and
10:08
operate a a telescope, radio telescope that is more affordable than a huge
10:16
system, easier to purchase, to maintain, to operate, uh but still is a uh a is is
10:25
a an important application. And from this we also developed radio ground
10:32
stations and optical ground station that are really used already now to
10:37
supporting space missions. We are already doing this thing right now. And this is great for us because it's a a
10:44
sort of big evolution of what we developed up to now and is now applied
10:52
on other type of applications and being able to just to say it's being able to
10:58
work for the space industry for us is is incredible. It's fantastic. It's an
11:04
inspiration. The one thing I really have to appreciate as a as a teacher is the
11:11
ability to be able to view and do things during the day. And you know, I have class during the day. That's when my
11:17
students are there. And to be able to pull up an image from an optical telescope is trying to find somebody
11:24
else to work with in the world, you know, and and find a place that's at nighttime when I'm teaching. Uh or you
11:31
with the radio telescope it could be right outside and you know I could pull that up and we could be in control and
11:37
and still doing the astronomy during the daytime. Clouds aren't really an issue either, right? So
11:42
yeah. Yeah, just yeah the limitation is the wind. That's
11:48
it. Uh but from a a technical point of view, you can use them anytime, day,
11:56
nighttime, h any weather condition, expect very high windy conditions. And
12:02
and the the great thing is that you can use they work like really like larger
12:08
professional level radio telescopes, but they are scales down. They are scaled down. Uh so I mean that scale down is a

Technology Boom: The New Space Race in 2026
12:16
relative term because we are talking about a 3 m 5 m antenna. It's meter
12:22
level you know. [laughter] I assume with something that large it can be set up permanently and stay in
12:29
place. Uh yeah. Does it does it require a dome still? Um or is there it can just be open to
12:35
the weather? It's open to the it's open to the weather. So when it's not in use, it's
12:43
uh it stows and parks at the zenith, which has kind of the lowest wind cross-section. Um the spider has a
12:50
perforated uh mesh antenna, so the wind will largely pass through it. Um and in
12:56
horrible uh situations, those are kind of designed to peel away um and leave
13:02
the telescope intact if it like hurricane force something blows through. But the mount the mount is all
13:10
other proof. Yeah, it stays permanently mounted on those peers. So, there's a smaller pier on this guy. We actually
13:16
just installed the very first 5 meter spider radio telescope here in the US a
13:21
few months ago. Where is that located? Uh upstate New Hampshire.
13:26
You you've been doing the astronomy with the radio telescopes for many years. I
13:32
mean, what what is like kind of the you're the only ones really doing it that I'm aware of and that that also
13:39
offer things to the general public. So, how did you end up in this spot? There's
13:44
a reason why not everybody's doing it here. [laughter] What made you guys, you know, fight off that huge new component
13:52
of this industry? Yeah. Well, the the the thing, look at the logo of Frealucha Lab. There's an
13:58
antenna over there. The red part is an antenna and that was from the beginning because we started with a well in
14:06
general primal lab has been uh established to bring to re to users uh
14:14
professional level technologies for astronomy application. This is what it
14:19
was about and it is about right now still valid. uh and we started with a
14:25
radio telescope with the idea of creating the first radio telescope that you could use like a an optical
14:32
telescope. I mean right now you have this incredible technologies that you can just buy and you don't care about
14:40
understanding how it works. you just buy it and use it and then you can start
14:46
thinking okay I would like to learn how the a a a mirror works how an image is
14:53
created but you can start from just buying and when we had this idea of the
15:00
radio telescope I was just searching and and [clears throat] searching on the web
15:05
was available because I simply started with idea okay can I buy a radio telescope as in the same way I can buy
15:13
an optical telescope. And the answer was no. Right? You had to really build one. And in
15:21
order to build one, you really when I mean build, I mean really to develop
15:26
because this is not something this is not a technology that is easy to build. I mean, you can buy a satellite dish and
15:34
try to point at the sun and you see a signal and this is all it was 15 years
15:43
ago. I mean just look at the sun and this is and and I I was searching for
15:49
website describing this these applications and I was and then I was
15:54
looking at the professional level application and [clears throat] there was a mismatch. So in the website that
16:02
were stating I'm I built a radio telescope or do it yourself radio
16:08
telescope the final application the real result was very poor was I mean you had
16:15
nothing very interesting in the same way that you have with an optical telescope.
16:22
Um on the other side I was studying professional restronomy that was very
16:28
complex because involved very difficult technologies that simply was not
16:34
available to the market that was something that you was not able to buy and that's why we decided okay we we
16:42
have to be the first that really are able to develop a complete radio telescope that really produce pictures
16:50
spectra all the different results that rad astronomers used to have with big
16:56
dishes but on an affordable level. So it has to be smaller, it has to be easier
17:02
to buy, easy to use, easy to maintain. And this is this is the spider to date.
17:09
Have you guys ever come across the uh Goldstone Apple Valley radio telescope?
17:14
It's through the Jet Propulsions Laboratory and I believe it's the
17:20
University of Southern California. Um, no. Okay. So, so through my work
17:26
with uh like the over the years I've done stuff for uh JPL with their solar
17:34
system ambassadors. Um and I came across this opportunity where basically students can operate uh I believe it's
17:40
30 meter it's a 30 meter uh radio telescope. It was part of the deep space network um for NASA to you know talk to
17:48
their deep space missions for many years and this particular telescope was set aside that it could be also used for
17:54
education at times um be a very an interesting connection that uh you know
18:00
you guys I think they they've got a you know only so many people and only one
18:06
telescope dish. It would be kind of neat to be able to have that big one, that big resolution that, you know, uh, they
18:13
have and and to work with some of these other ones and, you know, not to get into the weeds, but like the
18:18
intererometry that you can do with a radio telescope and basically connect them all together.
18:24
I mean, is there any plans uh that you guys could could maybe talk about about
18:30
how if many of these were to be able to work together, how that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they they will. I mean
18:36
it's this is something that we are already working on by many years. So uh

PrimaLuceLab Origins: Building what Astronomers Need
18:42
when you have a large number of radio telescopes that are comparable in term
18:49
of how you process your data because they are different in term of dimension
18:54
of the antenna but receivers are all the same. the way we collect data is the
19:01
same and this makes this system a perfect platform in order to merge data
19:06
then. So this is something that is it's not really a secret because we are working
19:12
on this development by many years and we already um created some add-on to the
19:21
spider radio telescope in order to let our users start doing interpherometry.
19:27
So right now we already have some customer that is using more radio
19:32
telescope more spider radio telescope to develop their own interferometer system.
19:38
Um but our goal is to create a an interferometry
19:45
uh system that allow you to connect more
19:50
spider radio telescope without the need of developed parts.
19:57
So on our view the interferometer is an add-on to the spider something that you
20:03
will be able to buy in the future. So you will be able to connect more radio
20:08
telescopes located also very far away each other a sort of VBI
20:16
interferometry. Could could you you know once again without going into too much of the weeds here just to kind of
20:21
clarify and and make sure that people are following what exactly an interpherometer is and why it's
20:27
important and you know kind of the basics of just like how it works. Yeah. So essentially big problem of
20:35
radio astronomy is the resolution because um
20:41
essentially the the if you if we want to go technical the the the formula of the
20:46
resolution is lambda versus diameter.
20:52
uh we never consider that on the optical because when we do optical what do we
20:58
consider 14 versus the diameter of the telescope
21:03
in centimeters in Europe we we use this formula in in inches is different but uh
21:09
but uh h because we use a fixed number but the real formula is the resolution
21:16
is lambda on the diameter so on lambda on radio is a is a big number. So this
21:25
gives you a very it's a wavelength right and so in wavelength in 14 20 MHz is 21
21:34
cm. So our wavelength is something like this as long as this. So this even if you
21:41
have meter, 2 meter, 3 m, 5 m radio telescope the your resolution is very
21:48
low in any case and you would have to have 50 100 meter radio telescope in
21:55
order to have some arm minute resolution and consider that the radio telescope
22:01
has not multipixel has not a multipixel camera. It's a one pixel camera pointed
22:08
to the sky and your resolution is like 3° 5°.
22:14
Wow. This is normal for a single dish radio telescope, especially compact radio
22:20
telescope. Now put that putting that in perspective. The moon is half a degree. Half a degree. Yeah.
22:26
So six moons can fit in one pixel. Perfect. There you go.
22:32
Across. So this is the difficulty of radio astronomy. I mean if you go with if you
22:37
use more antennas your resolution is small but your field of view is wide and
22:42
interferometry essentially allows you to merge data from more antenna in order to
22:48
create a sort of uh synthesized digitalized uh antenna
22:55
uh where the resolution is no more the diameter of the antenna but is the
23:01
distance between antennas. And theoretically you would be able to
23:06
create have an antenna as large as the earth. Uh then there are many other problems to
23:13
to to to overcome and these are usually the problem that professional
23:19
astronomers have to face and they they found a way to to to to to have the
23:25
solutions but these require very highend expensive technologies. This is what we
23:30
are working on to provide something easy to use and affordable also for
23:36
interferometer. So I want to book it now when you're coming back on the podcast to talk about
23:41
our first radio telescopes on the moon and then then we can have that conversation.
23:47
There you go. Perfect. A few years from now, right? Yeah. Yeah. No problem. I will be there on the moon. I will do the installation
23:53
service. [laughter] Just call me
24:01
[clears throat] No problem. So when when doing you know radio first almost it seems like as as you mentioned
24:08
um you you ended up going into optical telescopes as well and all the gear and
24:14
accessories that come along. How much overlap are you are you working with here because it
24:19
sounds like there's a lot of different stuff. Um you know of course you're tracking still you're you're following the sky.

Solving the "Cable Mess": The Invention of the EAGLE
24:26
uh you're dealing with somewhat similar ways of capturing data but not really.
24:32
So how for the for the general population of people who have watched
24:39
this or listen to this podcast that do astrophotography with optical
24:44
like where are the connections that that are helpful to understand? So you know when we started the development of the
24:50
spider radio telescope I the first thing I requested to my development team was
24:56
[clears throat] I want to be able to make radio maps because it's radio astrophotography
25:02
and it's an astrophotography that you can do in daytime. So that was my my my first thing and uh
25:10
but essentially you see the the radio telescope as the ones that Omar Tom pointed is uh is essentially composed by
25:20
an an altad's mount that has to be weatherproof because you don't want to
25:26
cover it. Um and there are parts that really uh uh
25:33
are really the same type of concept but other parts are completely different like the we don't use a camera in radio
25:41
telescope we use a receiver that has a single pixel and instead of using a
25:47
camera with multipixel sensor we use the mount to move the radio telescope and
25:54
progressively create a app by really scanning the sky. So there are some part
26:01
of technologies that are similar to optical telescopes. The other parts are completely different and they need a
26:09
completely different type of development even different type of developers that I
26:15
had to hire in order to develop all the all the parts that were needed. But I
26:21
also think what Dave is getting at is like where did our love of astrophotography start and and I think
26:28
you should tell the story of of Omar and you and how you have a love of radio of
26:36
uh radio astronomy but Omar uh had a love of astrophotography and as well as
26:42
you. Yeah. and and you guys suffered quite a
26:47
bit and I I think that this this company was born from suffering.
26:54
Well, the [laughter] amount of suffering for me and that's
27:00
why I relate to it's really why I relate to this company so well
27:05
and and however I felt a lot of the struggle. Yeah. the the beginning because the the
27:11
initial the initial business plan of the company was we we will develop the first
27:16
Amato radio telescope that will be able to make radio maps. This is that that it
27:22
was about very simple. We will develop it we will sell it and that's it. That that was Primalucha Lab in in 2013 12
27:31
years ago. A radio map's kind of like a mosaic, right? I mean it's it's a mosaic. Yeah, it's a mosaic. is
27:37
not nothing more than a mosaic. Um, and in the first two years,
27:45
we hit the wall hard every day because
27:51
we discover all the limitations and all the all the errors and we really had to
27:58
find new ways in order to bypass all the limitation that was um we we we that we
28:06
were discovering because We started with the idea of using some
28:14
dish that already exist maybe we can modify that and create something at a
28:19
mam level. H but we really had no no results and since I had my my mind was
28:27
focused on results. I didn't care a lot about technology. I wanted the
28:33
technology to be uh easy to use uh but I
28:38
wanted to have results. I wanted to see pictures. I wanted to record a map of a
28:45
a supernova remnant during the day. That was it was about what was just to kind of time stamp
28:53
this. What what year was this? When did this all start? 2013. 12 years ago.
28:59
Yeah. Uh but essentially in the first two years we we spent our days in testing
29:06
and testing and the problem was there was nothing to compare with you know
29:12
because you are the first that is trying to do this thing and you you cannot
29:17
really compare what are there are doing. I there was just a few examples something
29:25
but not really. Uh and uh but I remember
29:30
at the beginning of 2016 we went to the American Astronomical
29:36
Society meeting in Florida back then. It was January and we had with us our first
29:44
prototype, finally really working prototype, something that was really
29:50
producing some some data, interesting data. And we showed to the prof professors over there and they said to
29:57
me, listen, you you you did a great job because we are trying to do this thing in our university. We are trying to
30:04
develop our own radio telescope and we are not able to do that. Please keep
30:09
doing on this thing but we need this feature, we need that feature, we need
30:14
the other feature. So they needed more than what we already did in the first
30:20
two years of really struggle, you know. Um so we de we decided we need to keep
30:28
working on this. We want to develop even more. We want to develop new stuff. And
30:33
at that moment we decided to divide the company into into two parts. One related
30:40
to optical and one related to radio because some part are really they they
30:46
work in parallel like the mount or also software development. They can be
30:52
developed by the same people that develop play and the same people will develop our software radio universe pro
30:59
for the radio telescope. So it's a a it's a joint development but some part
31:05
needed a specific work and we needed to hire specific developers and so we had

Remote Observatory Automation & The Rise of EAA
31:11
to develop from scratch from nothing everything related to radstronomy
31:16
as we did for astronomy because astronomy is still there is still our passion and [clears throat] we are we
31:22
still work to develop all the especially for the astrophotography stuff that most
31:28
of the people knows about Eagle came to be Filippo.
31:33
Yeah. [laughter] Would you would you would you would you talk about our car uh trip from SFO to
31:45
to the show when I met you? Yeah. Yeah. So, I I had become a customer of
31:53
um Avalon uh mounts um because I was I was suffering with uh other gear and I I
32:02
could only see a very narrowest sliver of the sky in my backyard and meridian flipping for me was very frustrating.
32:09
Um, so I I went this route because they don't flip at the Meridian. And we become really good friends and
32:16
and I had found and I we were talking earlier when I told you the trade show was like right by my house in San Jose.
32:23
They they were coming to that trade show and um I offered I was like, "Well, I
32:28
own twothirds of your product line. If you'd like to show my mounts at the show, you're welcome to I can just come
32:35
drop my hardware off at the trade show for you." And they like, "Well, would you would you be interested in helping us in our
32:41
booth?" I like, "Sure, Bill, that'd be great." And, uh, so, um, I was going to
32:47
help them at the AIC conference, but they were sharing a booth with Primal
32:53
Lucha Lab and, uh, their CEO was going to be traveling
32:58
and would I be willing to pick him up at the airport along? So, sure, yeah, no problem. So, I went and picked him up
33:06
and uh introduced himself and he was describing this product to me that he was going to
33:13
be introducing at the show, the Eagle 2. And he was describing what it did and
33:20
how it worked. And it was like checking boxes for me because I was I I was a
33:26
20-year Apple employee. I was trying to do astrophotography on a Mac and I had finally surrendered and switched to a PC
33:34
and I had the cable bucket and I was I was suffering and and and what he was
33:41
describing just sounded so simple and elegant. And then he said, "Well, for helping us in the booth, I have one for
33:47
you." Oh wow. Oh my goodness. Yeah. [laughter] I still have it in there. I still use it
33:53
in my lab. It's number What is number two? three
33:59
003 number and like if my building catches fire,
34:05
I'm grabbing that and my dad's [laughter] like a few things that I couldn't
34:11
replace. Um, so like it it changed my world and after that show we became very
34:19
good friends and um over time I I realized I think I even I
34:26
zapped my eagle at one point with a wiring mistake that I had made and I had to send it back and they they fixed it
34:33
for me and they were very gracious and but it was so cumbersome and so
34:38
timeconuming to send product back and get it fixed And it became obvious to
34:43
me. I'm like, man, these guys could really use somebody here in the US. And and
34:50
for a while, I was like, well, why don't you send me a cache of like common parts that fail on things? And so they would
34:58
send me parts and I would fix things and I'd use their UPS account and send, you
35:03
know, uh, warranty repairs and things. That was kind of doing that on the side. But I was ready for a I was ready for a
35:10
change eventually from Apple and and these guys really could benefit from
35:16
somebody being here full-time. And so that's where I was like that knows that knows a photography.
35:22
Yeah. Well, I Yeah. I I was born a customer, right?
35:29
Yeah. I just I fell in love with their their products and their design and
35:34
their designer Omar um is is next world
35:39
good that is here somewhere. He's he's at work somewhere. [laughter]
35:44
I I always tell people that Omar was touched by the hand of the divine to build really cool astronomy.
35:53
So we just became friends. But like there the eagle was born out of
35:58
frustration from those two guys going up into the Dolommites. Oh yeah.
36:04
And having issue after issue after issue. Oh, we forgot a cable. Oh, this
36:09
power supply isn't working or whatever, you know. So that they wanted to simplify things and boil it down and
36:16
that's kind of where the eagle was born. And so it's all the products that we
36:22
make are us they're the result of a problem that we had to fix for ourselves. And you mentioned, you know,
36:30
software and I know you guys have been developing and and really pushing this play software and it, you know, one of
36:36
the things I really wanted to have you on today, Fippo, is, you know, the book. Um, oh yeah, you know, we have uh explore the
36:43
universe through astrophotography, capturing pictures with telescopes and play software. And this is the second.
36:48
It's not a very short title. It's very [laughter] what are you gonna do? And then and
36:54
through reading this and and looking on your website, you also have one for radio astronomy as well, which I did
37:00
not. Yeah. Also, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I I like to not only to write
37:05
book, but to explain, you know, so this is why for me it's quite natural. But um
37:11
it software is it's it's like related especially to play is same thing as the
37:17
eagle. Legal was born because of uh uh uh of a bit experience we had on the
37:23
Dolommites and we traveled two hours on the uh to to reach a beautiful place and
37:29
we forgot the cable and we've done come back home and that was the eagle
37:36
essentially where the idea of the eagle came from. Uh, the exact focuser comes
37:42
from a night where I had my Edge HD telescope on an Avalon mount with a
37:51
beautiful cool camera, whatever. Everything was perfectly. I missed a
37:57
focuser for the edge and I had to refocus manually the entire night during
38:04
acquisition. Everything was everything else was automated except for focusing. I had to refocus manually. So the day
38:11
after I went back to Omar and say, "Hey, you have to design a focuser for me." And that was the
38:18
uh and play is is the same. So play essentially um the the idea of play is
38:27
um because of a with a Windows computer essentially you
38:34
have lot of softwares. There are so many but most of them are not really easy to
38:40
use. They are not designed to be easy to use. They they are designed to connect everything and to let you do everything
38:47
right. But when you reach that level the complications start to really appear

Beyond Visual: Intro to Radio Astronomy (SPIDER Systems)
38:56
because you can do so many things that you don't know what to do.
39:02
Uh, and usually I I express this concept by saying it's like having um a DSLR or
39:11
a mirrorless camera. You you know that you have the dial on top, you know, where you you can you you have the mode
39:18
selector and usually you start from the automation auto mode. You start with
39:23
that then you go in semi-automatic and when when you are very good you go in
39:28
manual. Right? In astrophotography, we we do the opposite. We start in manual mode, then
39:35
you go in semi-automatic mode when you start learning new things, and then you only the best go out. And it's just the
39:43
opposite. And I I thought, well, it should be the opposite. You know, you
39:49
should have to start with something that is easier but not fully automated because to me when
39:56
you do in full automation, you do not understand and when you do not understand, you cannot improve.
40:03
The trick really is doing that without losing quality because I know that's what a lot of people are concerned about
40:09
when they get to the point where it's automated. Is it going to do the job that I know I can do manually or
40:15
semi-automatically? and and the answer has been for many years no you know so that that's
40:21
starting to become possible when when play software and and others that where
40:27
we're now seeing the quality come through in addition to the automation because it's it's been possible but just
40:33
not in a very good way. Sure. Sure. Sure. I mean it's think
40:38
about this. We always support all the incredible astrophotography software
40:46
automation that already exist. We always support all our devices
40:52
support software. I mean that this is what the reason why we developed the
40:58
eagle as a Windows computer because we want to pro provide to the user the
41:04
possibility to install any software they they they prefer to use with their
41:09
telescopes. If you want to use uh uh sequence generator pro, nina, voyager,
41:15
whatever uh maximdl any type of there are beautiful software very powerful
41:20
softwares out there. Uh but also we missed something that was
41:29
easy to use. We missed something that was more like not I I cannot say like a
41:37
smart telescope but something that was easier to use, funnier to use also. May
41:44
I say that Tom? Yeah. Funnier. uh and uh and to provide a link to the uh uh top
41:55
uh quality and top feature astrophotography software uh that you cannot start with. I mean I
42:02
cannot really see a lot of people starting with nenina or sequence
42:08
generator pro. When you start you need simplicity more than features. Then you can go there then you can when you learn
42:15
the basics you can learn applications can be very discouraging to a newcomer.
42:20
So essentially we we developed play because we saw something was missing and
42:27
I we developed play in order to let people uh start and enjoy
42:32
astrophotography. That's why we call it play because you can play on with the sky. That's it. Then you are able to use
42:40
any type of software you want. It's completely open. It's an open system. Uh
42:46
the ego is an open system computer. It's exactly it lets you connect the devices
42:52
you want. Even our competitors one. We don't lock anyone in in in in our
42:57
platform. It you can use the software you like, use the devices you like. And
43:03
this will allow you to uh uh to improve and without having to lock you into
43:11
something. This is the opposite of what we do. And correct me if I'm wrong, but
43:16
you can use play on any computer. It's it's free, but you need to have like one
43:22
what one device that is just one of our device. Yeah. Right. Focuser. Yeah.
43:28
Just one focuser, one one jotto flatfield generator or one alto
43:34
telescope cover motor. It works not only in the eagle. It it's for Windows
43:39
computer. That's it. Right. And then and then within the actual software this book is the user
43:47
manual. Yep. The help you can get the whole book. Yeah. So the book is is free. You can
43:54
download from our website. You can you you find it inside of play. Uh and you
44:01
can also order the print version if you like to have the print I high quality with all the pictures and the art cover.
44:08
It's uh it's it's on order. I'll put I'll put some links in the show notes and the descriptions u have direct
44:16
connections to those to access the software as well as the book and all the
44:21
other things we're discussing today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we are keep keep developing that. I mean play we are
44:27
adding more and more features. Uh but still the idea is to have something that has to be easy. We don't want sometimes
44:34
I get some email saying can I can can you add this feature? Can you add that feature? I mean I get the point but
44:41
first of all in front of my mind is I want simplicity otherwise we will end up
44:48
having another software that is as complex as others that are already there
44:55
they have more uh more feature than we have in play but we
45:02
don't want to create that play has simple and fun to use and they're good software it would be
45:08
hard to compete against that. That's not your goal. You need to reinvent the wheel. We're not out, we're not a software company.
45:14
It's now Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, just on a like really high
45:20
level, you've written now two editions of this book. You've written an edition
45:25
of the radio astronomy book. What who is your audience? Why why spend all of this

Amateur Radio Astronomy: Education, Outreach, and Research
45:32
time and effort to put together a book? That's a good question because you need
45:37
a lot of time in order to write a book and I'm keep doing that. I mean I'm I'm
45:43
writing part of the book uh every week I I add some and I keep adding to the
45:50
online version and to the printed version. I I plan to release another version of the book this spring. So we
45:58
are adding more and more and it's a big effort but um
46:06
I I like my my idea is that essentially when you love the sky you are an
46:11
explorer. Um and when you start everything seems too
46:18
difficult you know uh you you start by looking at video on YouTube you start by
46:25
reading everywhere and you are trying to collect informations and there are so
46:31
many that creates a lot of confusion uh and if you just read the manual of
46:37
everything you can buy you don't get the knowledge you need because you would
46:43
need to have someone close to you, some of one friend of your that already knows
46:49
astronomy very well. This is what you would need. That's where I was. Yep.
46:54
Yeah. And we we spend also me when I started I I spent a lot of time into
47:00
troubles to also on stupid errors because errors when you you fix them
47:06
they they seem stupid, you know, but when when you are doing that they are they are not stupid to you.
47:13
Yeah. And this create frustration. And so that's why I I was thinking I I
47:20
cannot duplicate myself. But what I can do is to bring my knowledge that I
47:25
gained over 30 years of astronomy into something that is has not to be a
47:32
manual. It's just not a manual of play. It has to be a book with my experience
47:38
with a lot of advices. What I would do, what I what can I could Oh, my English is bad.
47:47
Sorry, guys. [laughter] But cost.
47:52
Yes. I I was gonna tell you that I've seen the value firsthand because I have a
47:58
local customer here that I've gone and done some house calls with and he
48:04
recently got the new uh Sesto Senso 3 for the SCT and he's using play and he
48:12
got the book and he's following along. He's an older guy and he likes having the printed book and he goes through it
48:19
like lessons. Oh yeah. I I I you do a great job at
48:24
just explaining and you know if you you even mentioned in the first like chapter or two, you know, if you feel like you
48:31
can skip this part, feel free. you know, like you don't have to read it cover to cover or even in order, you know, it's
48:36
it's kind of broken up in a logical way that allows you to to kind of use the parts that you need and like a like a
48:43
user manual, but it reads like a book. Yeah. Calibration and read about that. You
48:50
go do that with I'm adding more and more content. So, how many pages do you have in your
48:55
version of the book? How many pages do you have over there? Well, I'd have to look. Give me a second. Yeah. Yeah. Look at that because
49:03
I think I reached 211 today. 160.
49:09
There you go. There will be 50 more pages already in the next version and I'm adding more.
49:16
I mean, and that's why I want to release that still for free because people has
49:21
to uh download they they can they can read it and download. It's my experience. That's it. And the same
49:28
thing I did with my radio astronomy book. I mean we we did radio astronomy the the the the concept was even more
49:36
complex because I was studying radstronomy when we started with lab I studied a lot of radio astronomy book
49:42
because I needed to study a lot in order to understand all the technical concept and on astrophotography I know a lot of
49:51
stuff already so I just need to write to create the picture the explanations but I know a lot of things for radio
49:58
astronomy I first needed to study and then I started taking notes.
50:06
But my my note were so big that one day I remember I I just
50:15
noted that my book notebook was so thick
50:20
that I say, "Okay, this looks like a book, [laughter] right? And maybe I can create something
50:26
that essentially is the link between a student that want to start read
50:32
astronomy and the university level regastronomy book. I had a lot and I
50:39
studied a lot. But there was a big difference between someone that start to
50:46
read about something about radio astronomy and a radio astronomy book university level that was full of math
50:52
and whatever. And this is my book goes just in the middle. So we're approaching about an hour in
50:59
right now. Um I'd like to transition us to talk a little bit about the PL Space
51:06
Center. And I think this is like a perfect transition. You're talking about outreach. You're talking about doing work for others. So essentially you know
51:12
when consider that we we develop um hardware
51:18
software everything related to all these solutions that we have you know it's so we reached a a point where we understood
51:26
that we needed to have a testing field where we can really use um
51:36
product continuously. So what we did in the past that that we had we had mobile
51:42
uh mobile telescopes, portable telescopes uh to test everything. Um but
51:50
in order to have a continuous and more reliable testing phase, we need to have
51:58
essentially a fixed observatory. Um so uh a couple of years ago uh we
52:07
started developing what we call today the PL space center. PL of course stands
52:12
for primalucha. Uh the PL space center is today our um astronomical observatory

Space Situational Awareness (SSA) & LEO Satellite Tracking
52:23
that also uses technologies for space mission support. So it's not only for
52:29
astronomy but also for space applications. Uh it includes three different
52:35
instrument. We have a radio ground station for satellite monitoring.
52:42
So we download data from satellite in orbit in different bands. We have a
52:48
radio telescope for radio astronomy a spider. And then we have what we call
52:53
the PL observatory station. That is essentially an astronomical observatory made up of our dome and even our
53:02
designed mount because we said okay instead of buying a mount why don't we design one for ourself? Why not?
53:10
[laughter] And we have experience in in in mounts design. So we designed also a
53:15
mount for uh a big amount is 200 kilos payload capacity with four telescopes in
53:22
parallel big telescopes uh an H14 a Raza 11
53:27
an FSQ um then we have a solar telescope so multiple telescopes over there and
53:35
essentially that is the uh location where we test everything that we develop
53:40
from the hardware point of view and from the software point of and but of course it's uh located in
53:49
Italy so is we can test something but not really the way that we would like to
53:56
have in our daytime because our developers work in daytime of course so
54:01
we can test pointing the sun taking some pictures everything check that
54:07
everything is ready but some work requires nighttime so we are currently talking with Tom about the possibility
54:14
to duplicate the system in California. So we can have during our daytime, it's
54:21
his night time and the opposite for him also. He could connect to our here. [laughter]
54:27
The one of the best things about our relationship is like when I'm rolling in
54:33
in the morning, they're closing up shop and at the end of the day and then at
54:39
the end of my day, they're waking up. So, we kind of get to square off about twice a day. If there's something I need
54:45
during my day, I can ask for it before I go to bed. I wake up and there it is. It's great. And [laughter]
54:52
and [clears throat] one of the the genius things would be is if I I just joined this local club and
54:59
they have a really nice property about an hour and 10 minutes from my house.
55:06
And they have like a double wide house with a kitchen and three bathrooms,
55:11
three bedrooms, and bunk beds and couches and and things like that. And
55:16
then they've got concrete pads for like mobile traveler setups. And then they've got concrete pads for members with domes
55:23
that can put domes and things on. And they have several that are currently available uh unoccupied.
55:31
And so I've I've been doing a lot of work with the club um sprucing up the
55:37
place, cleaning it, fixing things on the house. They had a a swamp cooler with a
55:43
bees beehive in it that [laughter] we had to get removed. and I've put in an air conditioner and and um so they
55:51
they really like Primoluche and they're kind of excited that we're there and um so it kind of sounds like I may be able
55:58
to get a concrete pad from them and if so then uh we would like to build one of
56:04
our new uh 3meter domes here so that if they have some new product that they
56:10
want to test they can send it to me I can go there install it and then when they roll in in the morning they can
56:16
just open the roof and yeah, I'm only an hour away, too. So, if they
56:21
need someone to lay hands on it, that isn't that big of a deal for me. Yeah, it would that would be a really that
56:29
would be really cool to do. Is this facility in the desert then? Uh, it's high desert, so it's at about
56:36
3,500 feet elevation. Yeah. Yeah. Still pretty dark out there. I've been
56:42
doing some imaging out there as of like this last September and it's it's really
56:48
nice. It's really nice. Yeah, I know rotation is not really great instead because it's very close to
56:55
the city but is this is where we need to go and physically maybe change something
57:01
and test new things. So it has to be reachable in a very easy way. So
57:08
unfortunately he's essentially he's still in the city. But do you get the chance to go out Filippo
57:14
and and do the astrophotography as much as you'd like? I mean it seems like you're very busy with things. Do you
57:20
still got out the dolommites? [laughter] Yeah. So uh the thing is um I have two
57:28
daughters. The the the older one is she's already
57:34
17 and she's she's flying away. So, [laughter] no more astronomy for her. But the younger one,
57:41
she seems to be interested and she's 10 actually. She's um she she's in the
57:48
moment where she asks me things. I talk to her about easy things. You're still
57:56
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still cool. Yeah. Correct. You're right. [laughter]
58:01
And Yeah. And so, you know, it's something that I'm I have a direct
58:08
interest in trying to uh to uh inspire
58:13
them, at least the younger one. Um, so this is part of uh of my um uh
58:20
telescope, not really astrophotography, but but this is something that I do with
58:26
play because when I show her the sky, I use play. And when we do deep sky
58:34
together, I just launch auto stack and you see the picture in real time creating without any uh processing too
58:42
complex just a picture and a similar thing of a smart telescope. So we
58:47
usually we start on visual. So I show her the sky by looking at the eyepiece
58:53
then I remove the eyepiece. I connect the the camera and I have the telescope with already the ego and everything
59:00
connected to so it's very easy and and quick and then we launch play we go
59:06
inside the house and I show her picture in real time uh in a very easy way it's
59:12
more more than astrophotography it could be something like electronically
59:17
assisted astrophotography let's say not astronomy astroph I think I think in you
59:23
know kind of just having this conversation We're touching on something that's kind of important. So, even if you are like an astrophotographer who
59:29
really likes to be hands-on and do everything I'll make all the tweaks, but if you have a family or if you're doing
59:36
outreach like play software is going to give you that simplicity with with the

Rocket Telemetry: Tracking Launches from Your Backyard
59:42
capabilities still there that you're kind of striving for. You know, you don't want to give up on the quality uh
59:48
because you want to show everybody the best that you can, but you're keeping it as simple as possible so that the if
59:54
there is interest, you're not scaring them off. Yeah. It gives you a nice full color
59:59
auto stacked uh image as as you sit there. The longer it sits, the clearer it gets and you you
1:00:05
can just share that live. It's great. Yeah. Because they they need to see
1:00:11
something real time, you know? They cannot wait. They cannot wait you to save your fit file and then process and
1:00:17
they show something. You know they want to see something on the screen in few minutes. You have usually three minutes
1:00:23
of attention. That's it. [laughter] That's the great thing about play is you get a color preview where I I normally
1:00:30
use sequence generator pro and they still don't give you a color preview of your of your image. Still grayscale.
1:00:37
Are are you doing any sort of like abil can you do any sort of adjustments within the software? I I haven't really
1:00:43
had a chance to use it um in that capacity. Yeah, in real time. The stretch um
1:00:51
yeah, you can do stretch, you can do color balance. Uh you have a feature to uh
1:00:56
autoflat the background if you if you don't want to if you do auto stack and
1:01:02
you you you won't use a flat field generator at that moment and you have a
1:01:08
filter to auto stretch the back to autoflat the background. you have an
1:01:13
automatic tip sky announcer in order to increase the visibility real time of the object. So instead of what I do with my
1:01:22
kids usually I take 30 seconds to one minute exposure and then I let it out of
1:01:29
stack real time and you see the picture improving on the screen and then when I
1:01:36
see that they want to see something different I just stop it and let's move on another object. It's so easy. Um, one
1:01:44
month ago I was at their school to show uh with a telescope. I I I they they
1:01:50
just wanted me to show the the sky to them. It was they are 10 10 years. It's
1:01:55
it's first grade school. Sorry. I was there with telescope and we were looking at the sky, showed them picture and
1:02:03
sometimes I really enjoy doing doing these things. Uh that
1:02:09
uh essentially reminds me what I did in my early years of astrophotography.
1:02:16
But it seems like now I'm the boss [laughter] and I'm in control.
1:02:24
Very cool. But still it's it's a it's is it's outreach. It's it's very important
1:02:29
we do these things. Uh because most of the people I I clearly see that it's 99%
1:02:37
of the people they never not even look at the sky. It's we I'm not talking about looking
1:02:43
with a telescope. They simply don't look at the sky. Yeah. They're looking at the moon or
1:02:50
Yeah. Whatever. And this inspire a lot of people of keeping more attention to what we have on top of our head. It's
1:02:57
it's free for everybody. It's over there.
1:03:02
Omar is saying, "Hey, come come here, Omar. Come here. I won't do Omar."
1:03:08
He won't say a word for sure. He is focused on go.
1:03:13
Hi, [laughter] you're live.
1:03:19
[laughter] There you go. Omar the designer. Hi Omar. [laughter]
1:03:26
He's not hearing because I'm everything on my my my ear plug, but it's how do
1:03:32
you say earpods? He's the reason I quit my job and joined this company
1:03:38
six years ago, five years ago. Omar, tell Omar, thank you for all the
1:03:43
awesome uh equipment. It's
1:03:53
Dave, [laughter] you you were talking about the PL Space
1:04:00
Observatory and you I know you guys are doing you now we've been talking about outreach. You mentioned the PL Space
1:04:06
Observatory as like this testing facility, but it also serves as an outreach for you guys as well. Correct.
1:04:12
Yes, it is because you know we use that in our daytime job essentially to test
1:04:17
everything. But in nighttime is essentially a free observatory close to
1:04:23
the city where students can really go and and and essentially have an
1:04:29
experience with the sky. So sometimes even during the year we have these
1:04:35
events where we really collect people interested in the sky and we show them
1:04:41
the technologies and what you can do is is a way in order to show what we
1:04:47
develop here also in our city because we are a small company. I mean we we are not a huge company and and most of the
1:04:55
people even in our city they don't know us unless they are amateur astronomers
1:05:00
and you know that we are just a few in the world so unfortunately but
1:05:06
for now Omar Salut say a lot
1:05:12
[laughter] but yeah it's it's a it's
1:05:18
an observatory it's not a public observatory in the strict term, you know, it's not a
1:05:23
place where you simply can go and uh it's our testing facility, but we like
1:05:29
to to to show to to the people what what you can
1:05:35
really see on the scrap. So simple and we have the tools to do that. So,
1:05:40
and these are your domes and and the full like turnkey observatories that you're hoping to eventually bring
1:05:48
globally. Uh, I know there's mention about bringing the one to to Tom's location as the I think Tom's excited
1:05:55
about possibly the first one in the US. Yep. Yeah, it will ship. And it the way that
1:06:02
they're constructed, they just basically ship in two halves and they're assembled together. It looks very simple. Um, as
1:06:09
long as they're isolated on pallets and and we can do the ocean freight be that these are these domes are old sky domes.
1:06:17
I mean they they completely open. It's a clamshell type. Um

High-Speed Mounts & The Precision of Professional Optics
1:06:23
and we call it the outpost. That's the name uh because it is you know
1:06:30
[laughter] and uh and uh uh it's a 3 m diameter and
1:06:35
we used to install in in our own observatories that we install all over the world. uh mostly we install these
1:06:43
observatories for outreach applications in the with usually with the smaller
1:06:49
telescopes. So they make these systems very affordable because you have a turnkey system you can use starting from
1:06:56
zero and the book is your guide. uh in the book there are so many references to complete observatory and
1:07:04
procedures and maintenance also because it's the the reference book that we
1:07:10
provide for the observatories. So there is a lot of people that I'm h always in
1:07:16
touch with with really with people that are not amateur astronomers. They
1:07:21
started from zero completely and they have the book, they have play on the
1:07:29
observatory station and that's all they need. They started from zero and this
1:07:35
way they engage people. We installed one in uh in in California
1:07:41
uh one and a half year ago uh in a library. Mhm. And of course they had no knowledge
1:07:48
about astrophotography and astronomy in general and they started from zero. Absolutely. So there is a library with
1:07:55
an associated astronomical observatory and they use that and this is you know you cannot make
1:08:03
think about providing these type of users a complex software to run a
1:08:10
complex machine. Maybe the machine can be complex made up of many parts but if
1:08:16
you provide an installation service so you remove the all the difficulties of
1:08:23
all the technologies the the difficulty related to technologies and you provide
1:08:28
a fully functional system with an easy to use software you have a solution and
1:08:34
this is what we do. So as you continue to kind of develop
1:08:41
your your simplicity of the software now you've got the full integration with your systems your observatories you know
1:08:48
coming back to kind of the education thing where you're trying to do this outreach now you're kind of matured to
1:08:54
that point now um as a company you the technical hurdles are are kind of not necessarily behind you but you're you're
1:09:00
you're striving for more and doing more. Where do you see things going in the next 5 10 years of of the company? Like
1:09:09
what direction do you feel like you are pointing right now?
1:09:15
Uh to me uh I see a lot of company
1:09:22
sim not similar to us but uh that uh I know them very well and they moved from
1:09:30
the astronomy market to the space market. Um I see this thing differently. I
1:09:40
that's essentially why we uh have two
1:09:45
different cataloges, two different website, two different type of instruments that we develop. So space
1:09:53
and the universe is is there we work to and my call out is uh uh to let you
1:10:01
explore the universe like a pro. Okay. Pro may mean a a great astrophotographer
1:10:09
or a space institute. I I don't care. I I I would like to
1:10:16
support uh both the type of applications because I love astrophotography and I
1:10:23
know how educational could be for everybody but I also love space and
1:10:30
that's why I I I I I'm really uh honored
1:10:35
to work with space companies actually and this is what we are moving in in in
1:10:44
so a company that supports two different applications but that are two faces of
1:10:52
the same coin that is the universe we kind of bring us full circle I mean
1:10:57
it you you make it sound so easy but I think I the differentiator here is [laughter]
1:11:02
it it is the fact that there's a scientist you who's at the CEO level and
1:11:08
understands both sides of this in ways that not everybody can do because of
1:11:14
your science background, you can communicate to these people who are the science people and the engineers in ways
1:11:19
that not everybody could. And so I think that that's, you know, unique to
1:11:24
Primoluche to have you as a scienceminded person in a position that
1:11:30
you can make those types of decisions, which is kind of cool. He's the reason we're such a special
1:11:36
company. Really? I I think it is honestly. and you're you're enthusiastic, you know, you're always trying to strive for more and um
1:11:44
you know, I I it's what drew me to to want to talk to you, you know, in the first place. And I think, you know, the
1:11:52
the sky's is the limit, right? You know, to be [laughter] weird, but like it's true. I think you guys have such an
1:11:58
amazing place in this community with the quality of the equipment and and just
1:12:04
the the the goal of kind of bringing it to everybody still because there's
1:12:09
plenty of companies out there that could go, you know, gung-ho with, you know, high-end, [snorts] very difficult to understand stuff that
1:12:16
is geared towards the best of the best science people but nobody in the general
1:12:23
public could understand. um or just completely going the other direction and saying, "Well, we really just mass, you
1:12:30
know, get it out there as a product and we really don't necessarily, not that they don't care about quality, but the quality comes second to just usability
1:12:36
of and and access to people." You guys are finding like a happy medium um which
1:12:41
I find is is an interesting and kind of unique thing. Thank you. I mean, it's difficult,

The Future of PrimaLuceLab in 2026 and Beyond
1:12:48
right? And uh but it's inspiring and everything comes from a passion you
1:12:54
know. So that's why we we think we we we we want to uh show that we have passion
1:13:01
in this uh in this type of applications and that we develop all the things that
1:13:08
we would like to use and essentially this is the secret. Yeah, it's all guilty pleasures. It's
1:13:14
all we all do this just to fix our own problems and then we just
1:13:20
[laughter] it's we're we're very discerning customers of our own of our own bits.
1:13:27
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's pretty much, you know, benefited the rest of us. So, thank you
1:13:34
for having a lot of problems, I guess, [laughter] you your pain and suffering, Tom.
1:13:39
Well, our goal is to just not have to touch the telescope. Like once you once you get it pointed to Polaris,
1:13:47
the goal is to not touch anything calibration or otherwise. So that's my my place in this community. I I've
1:13:56
you know kind of meandered my way back and forth over the years and you know it [music] all it eventually comes back to
1:14:03
just education and trying to get people excited about this. And you know I I am
1:14:09
the first to say I am not the [music] best astrophotographer out there and I have no interest in it to be honest. I'm
1:14:14
I'm interested in just the excitement that [music] people have when um you know I see it on the especially when I
1:14:20
was doing a lot more of the in in [music] person outreach uh where I could see on the person's face the the light
1:14:26
bulb moment where that interest all of a sudden take off uh when they turn you know to the person next to them like oh
1:14:32
my gosh you need to look into this eyepiece. Uh, [music] and you know, I I don't get as much of that as I as I did
1:14:39
with the um face-to-face outreach, but the the kind of like what you said, Filipo, with the book where I can bring
1:14:45
it to [music] a format now that is kind of allowing me to multiply myself and
1:14:51
and through this channel and [music] communication with people like you where I I get to meet people and talk to
1:14:56
people um who have these experiences and this [music] knowledge um has helped me
1:15:02
continue to learn um which where I benefit, I think. Uh, [music] and at the
1:15:07
same time, I'm bringing it to people who hopefully can benefit from from these kind of uh kind of conversations.
1:15:13
[music] So, it's been a a pleasure to have you guys uh as friends um over the
1:15:20
years when we meet at NE. Uh it's always nice to stop by, you know, your booth at
1:15:25
NE. And I know that Tom and I were discussing that's kind of like where the next few months. Yeah, [music]

Closing Remarks & How to Connect
1:15:31
we wait for you and uh I look forward to seeing what you guys are doing. Um [music] you know,
1:15:37
it's always interesting to see the the next thing. We will have fun things to show at NE.
1:15:43
Very good. Absolutely. We will have Well, thank you so much, guys, for coming on and uh I guess till next time,
1:15:52
right? Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. Byebye. If you're still listening and
1:15:57
like this podcast, please consider becoming one of our Patreon patrons. Memberships start as low as $3 per month
1:16:04
with benefits including opportunities to ask questions of our guests. Also, please consider liking, subscribing, and
1:16:11
[music] sharing this podcast to help us bring the universe even closer than you think.

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