Truth Is the Battleground: Peter Todd on Ukraine, Information Warfare, and the Epstein Files

In this special episode of Lead-Lag Live, I sit down with Peter Todd, Founder of OpenTimestamps, for a conversation that goes far beyond Bitcoin volatility or market narratives.

Peter joins us directly from Kyiv, where he has been working on the ground to support Ukrainian units through targeted fundraising efforts including delivering repaired and donated 4x4 vehicles to frontline teams and supporting interceptor drone initiatives designed to stop attacks on civilian infrastructure.

But this discussion also touches on something larger. As debates over the Epstein files dominate online discourse, Peter explains how even truthful information can be used as a form of informational warfare by diverting attention away from conflicts that are unfolding in real time. In a world where deepfakes, AI generated media, and manufactured receipts can spread within minutes, tools like OpenTimestamps are being used to prove that digital evidence existed in the past and has not been recently modified.

From Bitcoin’s role in enabling anonymous charitable donations to the use of cryptographic timestamping to document events in wartime, this episode explores how technology, trust, and truth intersect in an increasingly uncertain geopolitical environment and how viewers can directly support verified aid efforts in Ukraine through organizations working on interceptor drones and frontline logistics.

In this episode:
– Why Bitcoin drawdowns may be less important than geopolitical risk
– How truthful information can still be weaponized
– Why the Epstein debate may be crowding out more urgent realities
– How OpenTimestamps helps verify digital evidence
– How viewers can directly support Ukrainian aid efforts

Lead-Lag Live brings you inside conversations with the financial thinkers who shape markets. Subscribe for interviews that go deeper than the noise.

X:https://x.com/peterktodd
https://opentimestamps.org/

#EpsteinFiles #Trump #Bitcoin #UkraineWar #Geopolitics #Crypto #InformationWarfare #WarInUkraine #GlobalConflict #BreakingNews

Transcript

Why Proof Of Past Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Where you can so easily just create fake videos, create fake images. It definitely helps to be able to go rule out ways that something could have been faked. Um, you know, just just to give an example, and I'll give a real actually a really simple example, which is Bitcoin Core and a bunch of other software distribution, like software projects, use open timestamps to prove that the digital signatures on releases, software releases, were created in the past. And this means that in the future, if say the keys assigned to these software releases are ever hacked, well, we can rule out the signatures themselves being fake because they were created prior to when the keys were hacked.

Host Intro And Giveaway

SPEAKER_00 0:53

So it's my birthday, and this year I'm celebrating by giving a special gift away to one of you. And if you officially wish a happy my birthday to you, I've had this tote with a few surprises from our signature T-Coop merch portfolio. And it's not just random merch. Inside, you'll find some items that really at least signal you know exactly what you're doing in these merchants. And the tote, well, it won't have your portfolio, but it will make you look smarter than anyone pretending they know what risk on means at the process too. If you want it, here's what you need to do. Follow Lead Leg Report on X. Follow Mela underscore Schaefer on X. Subscribe to Lead Leg Media on YouTube and like and share this video. Only one person gets the tote, but since everyone gets our content, it's really a happy my birthday to all of you. I'm your host, Melanie Schaefer. Welcome to Lead

Market Volatility And Crypto Winter

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Live Live. Now, Bitcoin volatility is back. The crypto winter narrative is resurfacing. Michael Saylor says that this cycle is different. Meanwhile, geopolitics is deteriorating, institutional trust is extremely fragile, and information warfare is no longer theoretical, it's a daily reality. But today's conversation is even bigger than that. My guest today is Peter Todd, founder of Open Timestamps. And Peter has been in Ukraine for some time now. He's seeing what's happening on the ground firsthand. And the purpose of today's interview is simple: to understand what's actually happening there. Not just from just anyone, but from someone who's physically there and is here to discuss how our audience can directly help support what he's doing there. Peter, it's fantastic to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So before we uh sort of get into Ukraine, I want to start with a few headlines that have been shaping market and the trust right now. And I think that along with why you're physically in Ukraine, this all sort of really fits together. So to get into it, Bitcoin's it's had a rough stretch, and the and the crypto winner talk is back with some of the steepest down days since the last cycle.

Iran, War Risk, And Bitcoin

SPEAKER_00 3:02

When you look at this drawdown, do you think it's just leverage flushing out, or is there something structurally uh changing in the market?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Most likely it's just leverage. Um it, you know, it it is funny talking to people I know not in the Bitcoin space about this, where a lot of them are like totally panicked about, oh my god, crypto's down so much. And it, you know, to be honest, like as it started, I mean, one of them was like talk to me. It was like, oh, you mean it's down? I didn't really notice. Like, I just I just don't follow price so much. It's it's really non-issue. And of course, I have been in Bitcoin since, you know what is it now, like 2012, even 2010, depending on when you decide I uh got in. And I've seen so many bigger drawdowns in this. You know, it's it's just not really a big deal to me. I mean, of course, it's easy to say that when you know your cost base is in a fair bit lower than some people. You know, I'm not uh I'm not Michael Saylor there, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Great to have you on again. The last time that we spoke was in uh Abu Dhabi. Um when it's shortly after, I guess, gonna wrongfully and dangerously accused by HBO of being Satoshi Nakamato, which we now is uh it's on we don't talk about we don't talk about that anymore. But another thing because I I I follow your ex timeline really closely, and I find it super interesting. But you know, even today, um, the situation in Iran, people are calling that the war might have even actually just started. Um, will will that further tank Bitcoin as as people are now all over X projecting?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

You know, it it's hard to say. Like, you know, the optimist in me, the way I would look at Iran is to say a war there is potentially a very good thing in the long run because it's a time, you know, it's a way of getting out a regime that's that I think the rest of the world, well, the rest of the sane world at least, doesn't want to exist. I mean, um, I myself, I'm in Kyiv, and one of the big threats to people in Kiev, and indeed Ukraine in general, is Ukraine, um, Iranian developed Shah head drones. And they were quite happy to go sell those off to Russia, in some cases for literal plane folds of gold. And, you know, like or not, in the long run, the world is just a better place if the Iranian regime is toppled. And that's realistically only going to happen through war. So, you know, maybe it makes the Bitcoin price go down short term, but in the long run, it's good for the good for the world and arguably good for Bitcoin. Of course, the weird thing about Bitcoin is there is a case to be made that Bitcoin's valuable because the world kind of sucks. You know, Bitcoin's valuable because there are bad governments out there, and you do need to go protect yourself. I'm not necessarily quite that pessimistic, but you know, maybe on that argument, like Bitcoin would be propped up by people needing it to, you know, get around the Iranian regime. Maybe that's an argument. But I think more likely in the long run, this is going to be a good thing for Bitcoin.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, it's interesting. And everything is so much about perspective, not only in the world, but uh, you know, particularly in the crypto space. So especially over like the last little while. And Michael Saylor, he's been out saying that this winter feels mild compared with with prior cycles. Do you think that competition is? Okay, yeah, because he's taking a lot of.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

I mean, yeah, I would say I would say objectively he's right. Uh when you're talking, when you're talking about mildness in terms of percentage or drawdown, he's certainly correct. You know, if it's, I don't know, what is it down, 30, 40% or something? It's just not that bad. Now, it's easy for me to say, but objectively speaking, there's been we've seen much worse in the Bitcoin world. Now, certainly, if you're talking about the drawdown in terms of billions of dollars, yeah, you can make the argument this is the worst ever, but Bitcoin's the biggest it's ever been. So of course, you know, that would be bigger.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, I'm not hip to a little

How Information Warfare Really Works

SPEAKER_00 6:43

bit. And you know, zooming out geopolitics, that's surprisingly, but maybe especially these days, is bleeding in into everything, including the markets, information, but also trust. When you're watching that in real time, what's the thing most people still don't understand about how information warfare actually works considering what you're seeing in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Ukraine, I think, is actually an interesting case here because in Ukraine itself, the impression I get is information warfare isn't that much of a thing. Um you know, and I'd say why this is, is because let's let's look at it from the perspective of Russia trying to do some kind of informational warfare against Ukrainians. What exactly are they going to do? Are they gonna say that, oh, you know, this the war is fake and you know, Russia isn't actually trying to go kill you all? They can just watch their window and like see the anti-aircraft fire, you know, once or twice a week. Like that informational warfare in that kind of context kind of doesn't work very well because the on-the-ground reality is just so clear to people. Now, maybe you can try to go do negative informational warfare isn't trying to go say, well, your country's gonna fail, you know, everything's corrupt, and so on. But again, you're talking to people who probably know people who are directly involved. You know, I'm sure pretty much every Ukrainian knows someone who's a soldier. And they can just go ask their friends, I mean, how's the war going? You know, they're not gonna say you're gonna say it's going great, but they're not gonna say like they're doomed. They're all, you know, they're all gonna come back with accurate info. And I think that's I think it kind of makes it hard to run that kind of informational warfare. Whereas it's a very different story in, say, the US and Canada, where so many people are however many steps removed from reality. I mean, you know, I've even seen some truly insane examples. Like I ran into a woman and her husband at a Bitcoin conference recently. And I was talking to them, and the woman asked a question, like, oh, you know, uh, my husband is trying to get to Moscow. Uh, do you think like this bus service will go work? And I go, look at it. It's like, it's a fucking bus from Kiev to Moscow. And she was so deluded, she didn't really understand that a war was going on. She thought that was actually a reasonable thing to take. Like, how far removed from reality do you have to be? Well, probably three or four steps removed. You know, that's the sort of person who maybe informational warfare is gonna work on. And I gotta point out that example, I wish it was the only one I had like that.

Deepfakes And OpenTimestamps Basics

SPEAKER_01 9:08

It's not.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I want to ask you about deepfakes and edited clips you see. AI is playing into that massively, but also receipts that can be, you know, manufactured in minutes. And then that brings me in your you what you founded. Uh, and I want to ask you what practical you've timestamping and uh but what uh does open timestamps actually solve for someone who isn't a cryptographer and how is it working with how can it help what what you're doing in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

So in a nutshell, what open timestamps does is it proves that data existed in the past. So why is it useful? Well, because if you can prove data existed in the past, you know it hasn't been modified recently, it hasn't been faked recently. Now, maybe the data was born fake, maybe someone created some fake data five years ago, but uh at least you can rule out a lot of things. And uh, you know, in a world where you can so easily just create fake videos, create fake images, uh it definitely helps to be able to go rule out uh ways that something could have been faked. Um, you know, just just to give an example, you know, and I'll give a real actually a really simple example, which is uh Bitcoin Core and a bunch of other software distribution, like software projects, use open timestamps to prove that the digital signatures on releases, software releases, were created in the past. And this means that in the future, if say the keys that signed to these software releases are ever hacked, well, we can rule out the signatures themselves being fake because they were created prior to when the keys were hacked. Another example I know of is uh the journalist outfit Bellingcat. They are archiving tool that they go use to do things like archive Telegram, archive Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. But it uses open timestamps to prove that the data it archives was at least in existence when it should have been archived. Now, this doesn't necessarily prevent them from faking data right away, but if you're you know looking at, say, a telegram post from three years ago, you know it was from three years ago, and the reason to have faked that telegram

Journalism Use Cases And Archiving

SPEAKER_01 11:24

post uh existed five months ago, you got pretty good evidence that the telegram post is real. And that's what open timestamps does. And importantly, because open timestamps is efficient, you can do this essentially for free. I mean, literally, you can go to www.opentiamps.org and uh just create a timestamp right now. Doesn't cost you anything. The you know uses hardly any disk space, dead easy to do. In fact, I'll be giving a talk um soon here in Kiev uh to the crane audience about how to go use open timestamps as part of the uh see if I remember the something or other cyber resiliency form. I I don't quite remember what the name of the conference was, but you know, it's cyber resiliency. And as the name suggests, it's about things in cyberspace go make you more resilient. And open timestamp certainly is one of those things.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

People might wonder why we're talking about Bitcoin and and open timestamps and Ukraine. And and the next question that I want you to ask about, and and going back to that, everything I I feel people will watchfully end it, it all ties together. But that's why I want to hit on one more topic that's been all over the internet lately, and that that you've tweeted about, and that's the uh Epstein Files debate.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

But what does that have to do with with what we're talking about now? But it does in many ways. But what I want to talk about is or ask you if you can lay out why what's happening in that arena is connected so heavily to everything else that's going on right now. Uh before we get into the, you know, what what you're doing with open science.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Well, I've so I think the biggest way Epstein is in you know, practice connected to all this other stuff is really I would say the way that these things are acting as distraction and acting as their own brand of how'd I put it? Like kind

Epstein Files As Distraction

SPEAKER_01 13:12

of their own brand of um, you know, informational warfare, not in the sense that they're trying to convince you of something um, you know, something not true, but rather distract you from things that actually matter. And what's what I think is interesting with Epstein releases, this is a case where the truth in a way has actually been used to distract a ton of people. Because we did get, you know, I like I believe that the Epstein releases probably have been released in the form that was ordered by the US government, you know, by the US politicians who voted for this. Um I doubt the FBI is like hiding stuff. I they're probably not modifying files or anything, other than, of course, you know, the readactions are supposed to. But the way this is being spun is to go take something that in reality doesn't actually reveal very much and create it into a much bigger story. And part of how this happened was the prior to the release, Informational Warfare, of convincing people that surely there's got to be some grand conspiracy here. You get all these stories about, you know, guys going to the island, et cetera, et cetera. And the reality is the case documents come out, and what do we learn? Well, it looks like Epstein was, you know, who the U.S. justice system thought he was, someone who is guilty personally of abuse, someone who worked with a small number of other people, but there just wasn't evidence that there was a wider conspiracy. And sure enough, in the Epstein files, if you actually go look at them, that's that's consistent. Now it's likely that Epstein was a social climber, it's likely that he was also a scammer. You know, he was probably doing some kind of financial fraud. But in the grand scheme of things, that's just not that interesting. And ultimately it's just not a very important story, but we're seeing it plastered all over the news, and that's crowding out things that are much more important. I mean, you know, the UK, as an example, genuinely have a has a problem with Muslim rape games. Epstein's story is crowding out that. You know, that's that's a type of informational warfare that interestingly enough is based on truth. Now, if I'm going to try to link this to open timestamps, yeah, it would be great if the US government had open timestamped all these documents. But in the way that this is coming out, it appears that that actually doesn't matter. Because this is an example of truth being used in informational warfare.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Right. And so, yeah, I mean, you're not saying anything negative against the, of course, the the victims of Epstein, because we don't want this to come out of the world.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Well, I mean, there there is a nuance there, which is something a lot of people didn't realize that has been is sort of come out. I mean, I kind of knew this already, but you know, is now being like reiterated as more people look into this, is a lot of the people who claim to be victims of Epstein probably were actually co-conspirators. You know, these are women who met Epstein after they were after they turned 18, were probably working for Epstein, and then in turn, they were also recruiting underage, you know, underage girls. And that was in court documents before, but of course, now that all these files are coming out, everyone can

Why Peter Is In Ukraine

SPEAKER_01 16:17

see this firsthand. And the U.S. government did have um a non-prosecution agreement with Epstein where he would plead guilty. And as part of that deal um for relatively low charges, the people who worked with him were generally um uh immune from prosecution. So had that deal not gone true, we might be in a case where there was you know 20, you know, 15, 20 other quote unquote victims who were actually charged for arranging underage prostitution. But we don't see that happening because they all got immunity. And yeah, that's that's a sketchy thing. That's a very sketchy thing. And it certainly is part of how this informational warfare works, where people, you know, they hear part of the truth of this, but they don't really hear the full truth of it, which is actually A, this is smaller than it looks, but B, in some ways it's bigger. And it wasn't just Epstein, it was actually him and something like maybe a dozen, 20 or so co-conspirators.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, and I think that's what people need to uh keep in mind is that what we're talking about today is, you know, truth, information warfare, and getting back to open time stamps and then on what I want to get into next, which is to ask you, you know, about why you're in Ukraine, what are you doing there, and and what do you think the the the timeline, like the X timeline, the news timeline, et cetera, what isn't it capturing?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Well, I mean, first of all, why I am personally in Ukraine. I mean, I've got some projects here. Um, like I said, uh, I will be giving a talk um in uh about two days. Um, yeah, and frankly, I've got friends and stuff here, and I like Ukraine. It's it's a nice place to be. Now, in addition to kind of personal stuff and you know, work-related stuff, I've also been doing uh some work on fundraising.

Fundraising, Drones, And How To Help

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I mean, I'm certainly not uh not an expert fundraiser anything, and so many people who've done a much bigger scale than me. But like as an example, um, you know, a couple months ago, uh some friends of mine, they got together and got some fundraising for uh you know people I know at a unit, and I drove uh four by four in. Uh that was from uh Sweden, if I remember correctly, where we got it. Uh more recently, again, uh friend of mine, uh, you know, some soldiers he knows managed to go crash a car. And uh we A were able to get funds to get the car repaired, and B, due to some good luck, more funds came in, and uh it looks like we'll be uh getting another one for them too. And uh, you know, I guess one of the things with fundraising is like donors always want to go see that their stuff goes where it's going, and they want to know this from people they trust. So it's very valuable for someone like me to be in a position to pick up that four by four and go drive it in and be able to say, hey, I personally donate, you know, I personally delivered this to such and such a unit. I know the people there, I know it's gonna get used well, and I'm in a good position to do this. I mean, I happen to have a lifestyle where I can just, you know, take a few days off and uh go drive a four by four in. Not everyone can go do that. So it might as well be me and I might as well put that effort in.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah. So if you can be sort of specific, what are you, what are the what's the fundraising for that I see on your timeline? And and and where do you think the best place sells? Can you talk about where people can go to to donate to help you? And then also maybe at some other one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Well, I mean, first of all, I'll point out that a lot of the um big do um big charities in Ukraine uh do accept Bitcoin donations. And I always think that's a very valuable thing to do because it sets a standard that it is okay to donate anonymously. You know, people don't have to go stick their neck out. Um, just as an example, um a really good one there is uh Wild Hornets, who I've worked a lot with. And they're they're the main thing they go do is they um they built interceptor drones, that is drones that are used to intercept other drones. So at the moment, uh if I remember the numbers correctly, um they're personally, you know, their organization, the drones they build are responsible for taking something down, something like 30% of the SHA heads attacking Ukraine. That's as the Shaw Head drones that Russia mainly uses against civilians in Ukraine. So it's a very effective project. Uh for me personally, the stuff I've personally been involved with, um, you can basically find, you know, find find those fundraisers on my uh on my ex profile, you know, Twitter profile. Um, where are you actually? I mean, it's not like I have a pinned tweet, but maybe I kind of should. You know, I'm I'm kind of relatively new to the fundraising thing, but uh and it's certainly, you know, if someone had some money and wanted to donate it, by all means, reach out to me and I can find a good place to go put it. Um

Where To Connect And Closing

SPEAKER_01 21:00

you know, and I can easily provide evidence that the money actually went where it should.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, and that I I that's what that's what I know about you, and that's why I thought it was important to have you come on.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

And we can list some of um is it stuff that uh in each description uh where people can also um one one thing I want to say too is you know, my approach personally to charity has always been you should donate to things that you know in things where you have some personal connection because that's ultimately how you make the most you know, how you make the most effective use of your money. Um, you know, I you know, I in the past as an example of donated is like Cubes OS, which is something I go use all the time. And Ukraine's like that too, where I personally know the people who need this stuff and go use this stuff to go fight Russia. So me personally donating my time to them makes a lot of sense. And people who know me donating through me to get there makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, it does. It does. And I and I know you you just talked about your ex timeline for anyone who wants to follow your work, read more and support what you're doing. W where else can they go? Wh where can they connect with you? Where could they where can they reach out?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

The easiest way is uh, you know, Peter K Chaud on uh Twitter. And uh you know, I uh I my DMs are open, so uh by all means feel free to DM me. Uh sometimes the stuff gets a little lost but uh it it is there. And uh also, you know, I do have an email. My uh email is very well known P-E-T-E at peterchad.org. So feel free to send me an email.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Perfect. Well Peter, thanks uh so much for joining me and good luck with everything you're doing there and and thanks to everyone for watching. Be sure to like share and subscribe for more episodes of Lead Light Live.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah. Thank you.