Escaping Scam City | The Rescue | 5

We discover that the person Micah reached out to for help was none other than our producer Jake. The wheels for rescue are put into motion but the scam boss discovers that Micah has been asking for help, and calls him in to face the consequences.

PLUS: Americans lost $12.5 billion in 2024 alone to online scams. How is the government responding? The answer might surprise you.

Show website: fightofmylifepodcast.com

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Here's that video of the police raid (the bit at DV is ~3:15 onwards):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqzdlLihfjU

Here are the news reports referenced:

• https://nikkei.shorthandstories.com/
• https://vodenglish.news/thai-police-visit-concludes-with-66-rescued-other-victims-moved
• https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/28/world/asia/cambodia-cyber-scam.html
• https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2637946/cyber-scam-industry-booms-in-plain-sight-in-cambodia

Transcript

Speaker 1:
Cadence Productions. UnHeard.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, so I mean, I sort of started my career in Southeast Asia, career, so to speak, doing human rights reporting in Northern Myanmar and Shan, Kachin, Karen State, and I travelled a lot around Southeast Asia and sort of learned a little bit, just enough to be dangerous.

Speaker 3:
Throughout the last four episodes, you've heard from Jake, one of the producers of this season. His voice has helped us unpack some of the bigger forces behind Micah and Ava's story. His insights come from years of lived experience on the ground, as well as ongoing research into the forced scamming crisis. Jake also works closely with many others, tackling it from other angles, so I hope you've found it helpful. I know I have, but as you heard at the end of the last episode, this particular story of Micah and Ava hits a little closer to home for Jake. When Micah took one last shot at getting help, taking a massive personal risk, it was Jake he reached out to on Twitter. We'll get back to that in just a moment, but first, I thought you should hear a little bit more about what drives Jake and why this has become, in many ways, the fight of his life.

Speaker 2:
I initially went out to Northern Myanmar because it was different, and it was an adventure. It was something unlike anything else I thought would... I thought was going to go... I was an accounting major, and it was unlike anything else I was going to do for the rest of my life. And so, that desire for adventure, that desire for self-seeking, sort of self-pursuit ended up exposing me to reality. And it sort of put a different level of gravity on what I thought I would do with my life, just being confronted with people who were living out stories that were very different from the one that I grew up in and just wanting to be, to whatever extent it's possible, in solidarity with them. That was sort of the initial sort of altruistic spark of seeing that there is a life and a world well beyond what I grew up in and really being inspired by some of those stories.
But today, I mean, what it's really become is a lot of my closest friends are people that are sitting on the front lines of the response. And so, when I think about what drives me today, oftentimes, it's the stories of people who have given up a lot to stand with people on the front lines. It's people like who I encountered in Cambodia who have given up significantly and take significant risks on a day-to-day basis to stand with vulnerable people that, because of the way my story has played out, I feel like I'm in a moment where I can support them well by speaking truthfully and pushing for reform in some of the areas that they're sort of, yeah, again, standing on the front lines for.

Speaker 3:
In early April of 2022, Jake was still relatively new to the world of forced scamming, but he was increasingly involved in a small and determined community of people in Cambodia all trying to find a way to deal with it.

Speaker 2:
The organisation I was with was getting requests on a daily basis, and we were getting those requests on the basis of a lot of credibility and having been in the country for a long time, and people trusted the type of work we were doing.

Speaker 3:
Now, usually, these requests would be coming from the family members of someone who might be trapped in a compound. Other times, it might come through embassies or NGOs that were unable to take on the requests themselves. But one morning, as Jake was checking Twitter, he saw a new message in his inbox. This time, it wasn't from a relative or a third party. It was from someone claiming to be inside, and it was direct to Jake. Back then, that kind of thing never happened.

Speaker 2:
I had been in Cambodia for a few years at this point and been working on human trafficking issues for a bit longer than that. It really was the first time that someone had reached out to me personally and asked for help just to me.

Speaker 3:
Of course, that message was from Micah. I asked Micah to read it out for us, verbatim.

Speaker 4:
We have been forced work as scammers in Kaibo Chinatown in Sihanoukville, Cambodia. Please rescue us and save us. Them Chinese kidnap, electronic assault, human trafficking, beating, imprisonment. We don't want to work with. Them force us work as scammers. Rescue us as soon. Help us.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, it's a crazy message, right? You can almost feel his anxiety in the message as he's trying to get across exactly how serious the situation that he's in is. Receiving a message that's like that and knowing that person's just a couple hundred miles away and sort of sees you as their one chance at freedom is... yeah, it's a heavy message to receive.

Speaker 3:
For a brief moment, Jake wonders whether this message itself could be a scam.

Speaker 2:
I sort of evaluate, "Okay, maybe it is a scam." I talked to folks that I trust and who had responded to a lot of these. We discussed together what the risks would be if it was someone just baiting me because my sort of public persona on this issue is someone that is known to respond to these sorts of things, and we sort of just decided that the best thing to do is just follow normal protocol and treat it as legitimate until proven otherwise but just take all precautions while we were going about that.

Speaker 3:
The next time Micah checks his phone, there's a message from Jake.

Speaker 4:
He said that, "Can you give us your personal mobile phone number or the email so that my team can reach out with you?"

Speaker 3:
To Micah, it all feels eerily similar to the last time he reached out for help, and look how that ended up. He hesitates.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, so he was understandably quite hesitant in giving us the sort of identifying information that we needed to actually effect relief for his situation. He didn't want to give us his passport. He didn't want to tell us exactly where he was located because he'd been burned before, and he knew that he had done that once, and he had gotten lucky. But if he did it again, there were going to be serious consequences. And so, there was a longer period of him sort of feeling us out and trying to figure out, "Is there a way I could get out without fully revealing who I am?"

Speaker 3:
Although Jake has already passed along the details of Micah's case to the most capable and trustworthy frontline responders in the country, Micah keeps coming back to Jake. Before he speaks with any of the people Jake has referred him to, he makes Jake confirm that they are who they say they are. Every few days, he sends Jake another message on Twitter, keeping the line of communication open. It's not standard protocol for Jake to stay in touch with a victim who reaches out, but in this case, he does.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, from the beginning, I felt a special bond to this case. Because of the personal nature of the request for help, I felt sort of a sense of responsibility to make sure that we were really seeing his case through.

Speaker 3:
Micah's Twitter message to Jake, something so small and seemingly random, has led to a connection that maybe, just maybe, could change his life. But even as the wheels are turning on rescuing Micah from Kaibo, back on the fourth floor of DV Casino, Ava remains trapped and alone.

MUSIC:
Open your eyes.
What can you see around.

Speaker 3:
From Unheard and Cadence Productions, this is season two of The Fight of My Life: Escaping Scam City.

MUSIC:
You see me fly.
You know they'll never catch me for it.
See me fly.
The way I put my finger on it.

Speaker 3:
A story of love, real love in a city built on faking it.

MUSIC:
Got the wrong guy.

Speaker 3:
This is the story of Micah and Ava, thrown into the fight of their lives, and of those who have chosen to come alongside them and make it their fight, too.

MUSIC:
Then try to tell me you got the wrong guy.

Speaker 3:
Episode five, the rescue.

MUSIC:
Well.

Speaker 5:
DV Casino, day 98.

Speaker 3:
For Ava, the days in DV are long and dark. Because she's now associated with Micah, a known troublemaker, someone who had to be sold, she is being watched, and the guards take away her phone. What they don't know is that she has found a second, secret phone. After the two Thai men had been beaten with the dumbbell, the boss had thrown their phones away, but Ava picked one up out of a trash bag that wasn't tied shut.

Speaker 6:
And the battery of one of the other phones was gone already. But then there was this other phone that only the screen was shattered, but the touchscreen was still working.

Speaker 3:
The guards have left Ava her charger, and it's the right kind. She hides the broken phone under her bed, and at night when nobody is watching, she messages Micah. Often, she only has a minute or two or less. On this particular evening, though, the boss in DV rounds all the workers up for a special meeting. He says it's urgent. Tomorrow, he says, the police will be coming to the building with a news crew. This rocks the workers, and for a moment, Ava feels hope, but then the supervisors warn the workers to keep their mouths shut. They say the police might ask if anyone is there against their will, but the bosses reassure them that if anyone speaks up, the consequences will be severe. They make it clear. Asking for help won't get you released. It will only get you punished.

Speaker 6:
So, basically, at that time, there was a huge news about a call centre in Cambodia. So, the supervisor said, "They're coming tomorrow." [foreign language 00:12:15].

Speaker 7:
[foreign language 00:12:16].

Speaker 6:
"They're coming tomorrow at noon. Act as normal as possible, and if they ask you if you're doing scam, don't tell them.

Speaker 7:
[foreign language 00:12:24].

Speaker 6:
"And don't open your computer. Don't do anything." [foreign language 00:12:31].

Speaker 7:
[foreign language 00:12:35].

Speaker 6:
And then at 12:00 noon the next day, the police actually came, and there were four Thai police and many, many Cambodian policemen.

Speaker 3:
And so, when the Thai and Cambodian police arrive at DV, Ava does not cry out for help. She sits quietly as the boss gives the police a tour of the work floor, but secretly, she hopes that the police will realise on their own that they have been trafficked here, that she and the other workers are trapped. She waits, holding her breath. Then, one of the Thai policemen speaks to the workers.
I'm going to pause here because this press tour is actually still up on YouTube on a Thai news channel. I'll put the link in the show notes so you can see for yourself. The part at DV Casino starts at 3:30. Go and have a look. You can see the gong for yourself. I'm going to play you a little clip from it, the moment the Thai police officer speaks to the group, I've had it translated, and essentially, it's an impassioned plea to the workers to leave right now and to come with them.

Speaker 8:
Make your choice. You can choose to live your life in your home country. If you stay here, you are working as slaves to the Chinese. Why do you want to do that? The Chinese people that brought you here will slowly sell you away for sure. I can tell you that for sure. And where you are sold to is really up to each one of your fate.

Speaker 3:
It sounds pretty hopeful, right? A way out, but according to Ava, even before the tour began, an arrangement had been made. Only five Thai workers would be allowed to leave with the police. And so, that's what happens. After the policeman's speech, five pre-determined workers stand to leave, but Ava's uncle doesn't know that this was pre-arranged. He's about to find out the hard way. He's heard the speech, and he wants to get out, and so he stands up and asks to leave, too. The boss tells him to sit down. Bewildered, he does. He'd pay the price for that little move later. And with that, Ava watches the policemen leave with only the five pre-selected workers, and her hope disappears with them. A few days later, after this visit from the authorities, all the workers, including Ava, a move to a new location, Ching Cheng Hotel, just 200 or so metres down the road.

Speaker 5:
Kaibo, day 38.

Speaker 3:
News of the visit to DV from the Thai authorities has spread to Kaibo. But over in building five, the bosses have bigger things to worry about. The scams aren't working. At first, the compound runs a simple crypto scam targeting the Canadian market, but it fails.

Speaker 4:
We using WhatsApp and then make a fake website platform to asking victim to deposit the crypto sitting inside the platform to invest something, yeah. But that was not very successful. I mean, the project of the scam was failed and then changed to Turkey and also Brazil, also same, not very successful.

Speaker 3:
There is a gong in Kaibo just like there was in DV. But with so few successful scams, it rarely rings. And just like at any struggling company, the mood in the workroom is tense. The workers are quiet. The boss is short tempered. Everyone tries to avoid provoking him. Each time Micah sends a message to Jake, he's taking a major risk.

Speaker 4:
Because I don't want any people who found out this time, yeah, I just try to contact Jack Sim, and then I just quickly uninstall the Twitter and then log out, yeah, and then I try to memorise the ID and password. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
Download the app, log in, send your message, log out, delete.

Speaker 6:
Delete the app.

Speaker 4:
Delete app, yeah.

Speaker 3:
Every time.

Speaker 4:
Every time, every time, yeah.

Speaker 3:
This time, when Jake responds, he presents Micah with a choice. He says that the next step is for them to reach out to the Malaysian embassy on Micah's behalf. But Micah remembers how the Thai men in DV were beaten after reaching out to the Thai embassy.

Speaker 4:
Yeah, because I worry about Malaysian embassy same as Thai embassy. Yeah, I really worry.

Speaker 3:
Micah asks Jake how he can be sure this plan will work. How does he know going to the authorities won't backfire?

Speaker 2:
Basically, what I told him is that there is no guarantees. We're operating in a highly imperfect environment here in Cambodia. But I also told him that I would do my best. And more importantly than me doing my best, I told him that we, that the community of people who were starting to respond to this would do their best. But I also had to tell him, like, "This is your decision." I'm not going to, and we're not going to take any action without his consent.

Speaker 3:
Micah needs some more time to think.

Speaker 5:
Ching Cheng Hotel, day five,

Speaker 3:
Two of the other Thai workers tell Ava they are going to try to escape. They ask if she wants to join them. But when she hears their plan, it sounds like something out of a spy movie. It's so far-fetched that she actually thinks they're joking. She says no. But the next day, the two workers are gone.

Speaker 6:
Because no one stayed in this room, they used a spoon and sawed out the metal piece, and they got the bedsheets, and made a rope, and then actually hung the rope, and went down. So, they slid down. They got the metal piece out. They slid down. The rope was as far as fifth floor, but they jumped down anyways, and their legs were injured. But I think it was the adrenaline of people who wanted to run away. So, they ran away, got on a taxi, went to Poipet, called their family, asked for money, and got home.

Speaker 3:
Wow.

Speaker X:
Wow.

Speaker 6:
Yeah.

Speaker 3:
Ava wishes that, when they had asked her to join them, she had said yes.

Speaker 5:
Kaibo, day 41.

Speaker 3:
The operation in Kaibo has switched to yet another scam. This time, it's luring victims onto an online gambling platform where the back end of the platform is rigged against them.
So, they're constantly trying new scams.

Speaker 4:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but keep fail.

Speaker 3:
So far, Micah hasn't agreed to let Jake's team proceed with the next step of contacting the Malaysian embassy. But life in Kaibo just keeps getting worse.

Speaker 4:
The life inside that was like GTA. You know it?

Speaker 3:
GTA, Grand Theft Auto, it's a very violent video game.

Speaker 4:
The game in GTA.

Speaker 3:
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4:
Yeah, it was like the crime place. It was really terrible, which was inhuman, inhuman life, really inhuman life.

Speaker 3:
From the brief messages Ava sends him each night, Micah knows that she is also losing hope. Just a few days ago, her uncle was punished badly for trying to leave with the Thai authorities.

Speaker 6:
He got tasered.

Speaker 7:
[foreign language 00:21:03].

Speaker 6:
And then he got poured on with cold water, and then they turned on the AC at the highest temperature. And after all this, they sold him.

Speaker 3:
Nearly two weeks after he first makes contact with Jake, Micah reaches a decision. Yes, the two Thai men in DV who contacted the embassy were caught and beaten. Yes, Ava's uncle was beaten and sold, but Micah cannot wait in limbo anymore. Whatever the unknowns, whatever the dangers, he has to act. Before he can second-guess himself, he sends Jake another message. "Okay," he says, "you can contact the embassy."
The visit of Thai police to DV, the one that I played the clip from earlier, the one that only rescued five people, is, I think, a pretty perfect example of just how messed up the situation was because as powerful as a foreign embassy or a diplomat might be, it turns out that scamming crime syndicates were even more powerful. In April of 2022, when that raid happened, Thai officials had actually planned to go into Cambodia and rescue an estimated 3,000 Thais who were known to be trapped in scam compounds. The mission was so important that the Thai government put the country's deputy police chief in charge. The deputy police chief's name is General Surachate Hakparn, but believe it or not, he's best known by his nickname, Big Joke. Despite his name, Big Joke is definitely not a joke. Back in 2022, he was one of the most senior officials in Thailand, but that seniority didn't help him much in Cambodia.
It's actually really interesting going through some of the news reports made at that time. It was a pretty big event in the media. The Bangkok Post reported that officials found themselves, and I quote, "stymied by the Cambodian police." Nikkei Asia reported that Big Joke actually had to negotiate with gangsters rather than the police. And VOD reported that, in one situation, when the Thai police arrived at a scam compound in Sihanoukville, they had to negotiate for about eight hours with the scam bosses before they were allowed in. And after those eight hours, they still ended up paying the scam bosses $1,500 and rescued only 24 people. If you're interested, you can check out the links. I'll put them in the show notes. In the end, Big Joke left Cambodia with around 100 Thai citizens, nowhere near close to the 3,000 he had originally hoped to save. Jake actually heard him speak at an event in Bangkok shortly after this all happened.

Speaker 2:
And he was, in public, furious about what he had encountered there. And he relayed some anecdotes about how they would go up to compounds, and if they had not pre-negotiated with the Cambodian authorities, they'd look at their list and be like, "Yeah, we know there's Thais in there," and they would just say, "No, go away." And I remember sitting there and hearing him go, "What sort of country is this where the gangsters tell the police to go away?" And he was just sort of dumbfounded by what he saw over there. And then, even when they were able to gain access to the compounds, they were often held to specific floors. They were first forced to negotiate and pay ransom payments to the syndicate owners. But what I took away from it was these syndicates have an enormous amount of power. And clearly, even with the Cambodian government, knowing that they had diplomatic level law enforcement visitors from a key important bilateral partner, the criminals still outranked that delegation.

Speaker 3:
It gives you a little glimpse into just how hard it was to get anyone out of a scam compound. Even with foreign governments involved, releases were barely happening at all.

Speaker 2:
Letting them out is a pressure relief valve. It's a mechanism for alleviating international scrutiny, and that's only ever going to amount to what we've seen, where you see two to 5,000 people being released a year out of 150,000 people. Those are sustainable losses.

Speaker 3:
And so for Micah, the prospect of escape is still, well, very much against the odds.

Speaker 5:
Kaibo, day 54.

Speaker 3:
One afternoon, about two weeks after Micah gave Jake permission to contact the Malaysian embassy, the boss comes into the main workroom. He summons Micah and tells him to follow him.

Speaker 4:
Yeah, and then we go to the private room.

Speaker 3:
The boss takes a moment to look at Micah before saying the words that Micah was desperately hoping not to hear.

Speaker 4:
The boss asking me, "Are you asking for help?"

Speaker 3:
"Did you ask for help?" The blood drains from Micah's face. It's like a horrible deja vu. He should have known his messages would somehow get leaked. He should have known the boss would find out. When he was caught in DV, he got off relatively easy. This time, though, he won't just be sold. The punishment will be much worse. But it's then, at that point, that something clicks in Micah. Even though he is trembling, he looks the boss dead in the eye. He's got nothing left to lose.

Speaker 4:
I said, "Yes." I said, "Yes, yeah." I said, "Yeah, of course I want to go out."

Speaker 3:
At first, the boss doesn't speak. Then, his face expressionless, he tells Micah that he hasn't yet worked off his debt.

Speaker 4:
"And then how about the 11,000?" He said, "How about the money that I buy you to come here?" I said, "You just ask my..." [foreign language 00:27:51].

Speaker 6:
Ask my previous boss.

Speaker 4:
"You just ask him, and not you buy from me. You buy from my previous boss. I don't care anything." I really very stressful. I don't care anything. I just talk directly. I talk clearly. "I don't want to trouble anymore," I said. "You also seen it, right?" I said. "I can't even scam a person." Yeah, for real, these four months, I didn't have scamming any person, really.

Speaker 3:
Micah is essentially telling the boss that he's never going to pay back his debt because he's so bad at his job. He's a terrible scammer. Spoken out loud, the words sound funny, but the boss doesn't laugh. He stares at Micah, his face cold. Micah knows what's in store for him, and he braces for what comes next.
So, we've talked a lot about the Cambodian government and law enforcement, but as I've said before, this really is a global issue. Remember, the FBI reported that Americans lost 9.3 billion to crypto scams in 2024 alone. And that was an increase of 66% from the previous year. So, what about the US government and law enforcement? What are they doing about it?

Speaker 9:
There was a time where I was very protective of law enforcement and kept waiting for the feds to show up and handle this business, and they have not shown up and handled this business despite all my poking and prodding. And so, what I will say is that... well, the softest way I could say it is there's a lot to be desired with the American response in law enforcement. The worst I could say is that there is absolutely no national strategy.

Speaker 3:
Okay, but what about all those victims of scams in the United States? If tens of thousands of people are being scammed each year, who did they call for help?

Speaker 9:
What we have is people reporting to a million different places, and the only real... the one place it's supposed to go is to the FBI, and that is a black hole, and nobody's responding to victims.

Speaker 3:
Surely, that can't be right. I asked Chai, the scam victim we heard from a few episodes ago, whether he had tried reporting his scam.

Speaker 10:
So, in that original article, actually, that my friends had shown me, it says in the bottom of the article what to do, or who do you contact if you've been scammed? One was the FBI, and there's a specific FBI unit, and that's who I reported it to.

Speaker 3:
And how did they respond?

Speaker 10:
I never heard from the FBI. Still haven't heard from them.

Speaker 3:
So, did you ever get any of your money back?

Speaker 10:
No.

Speaker 3:
We got the chance to speak to Raul Aguilar, the former deputy assistant director for Homeland Security Investigations. Raoul used to run the financial fraud division at HSI, but when we asked him what the US was doing to help victims of pig butchering and other scams, here's what he said.

Speaker 11:
So, as a victim, it's very difficult. There are a variety of ways to attempt to report it here in the US. Unfortunately, they're not all consolidated in one easy-to-read database that can connect the dots from all these cases. So, it makes it very difficult for law enforcement to stitch together these cases, even if they're happening within the same community, the same zip code, the same state. So, it's very difficult to track those cases.

Speaker 3:
So, I guess the question is, who is leading the charge on this in the US? Who's got it?

Speaker 11:
There's an absolute need for a national response. I think there's discussions at every level, state, local, legislative, federal agencies discussing it. Unfortunately, there's not a one-stop shop.

Speaker 3:
I had asked Jake, as far as Cambodia is concerned, where is everyone? Now, I asked Erin the same question about America, and she asked it right back.

Speaker 12:
The fact is, where are they? Where are they where all these people keep getting their lives ruined? Where are they? It's a legitimate question to ask. Where is the federal response? Where are you?

Speaker 5:
Kaibo, day 54.

Speaker 3:
Micah stares at the boss. The boss stares at him. Then, he demands that Micah turn over his phone and go upstairs to pack.

Speaker 4:
You'll go upstairs to package in your luggage now, and then came to second floor with me.

Speaker 3:
When Micah comes back down, the boss is waiting for him. His phone has been scrubbed.

Speaker 4:
And then he just give back my phone, give back my passport. And then he said, "You go outside. Wait there."

Speaker 3:
Two guards carrying their guns stand on either side of Micah. They take him from the second floor down to the ground floor. They walk him out of building five and through the massive Kaibo complex past the little shops in the supermarket and the barber. They lead him all the way up to the massive two-lane entry gate. Then, they stop. When Micah looks behind him, he sees a handful of other security guards, all armed, have come into the courtyard, and they're lined up behind him, silent, watching, guns in their hands.
Okay, they all came out. Security came out.

Speaker 4:
A lot of security, a lot, I even don't know I've been sold, I've been rescued, or something else because the boss didn't say anything. The heart...

Speaker 3:
The Fight of my Life is brought to you by Cadence Productions in partnership with UnHerd. This series, Escaping Scam City, was written by Kaavya Viswanathan, Nikki Florence Thompson, and me, your host, Rich Thompson. The series producers are Lydia Bowden, Jake Sims, Ben Field, Kari Ann Tilson, Kaavya Viswanathan, and Rich Thompson. Our theme song is See Me Fly by Rosa. Our incredible translator is Corinne Powell. Thank you so much, Corinne. Additional sound design by Brendan Ridley. Unherd's advocacy in support for this project was led by Lydia Bowden, Kari Ann Tilson, and Laura Entwistle, with a massive thanks to their generous community of supporters and with a special shout-out to Wen, Dane, and Val. We're so grateful for all the various contributors to this series. And of course, any views and opinions expressed by individuals are their own.

MUSIC:
You see me fly.
You know they'll never catch me for it.
See me fly.
The way I put my finger on it.

Speaker 3:
This series is based on the true story of Micah and Ava, whose names have been changed to protect their identities. Every effort has been made to preserve the integrity of their experiences. In some cases, events have been edited, condensed, or reordered for clarity, safety, or narrative flow. While we've worked hard to verify details, as with all first-hand testimonies, some elements can be difficult to independently confirm. We are so thankful to Micah and Ava for telling their story and elevating this issue on behalf of countless other survivors. And finally, we're thankful to you for choosing to come on this journey with us. If you get a second to rate and review the podcast, we'd really appreciate it. We'll see you on the next episode.

MUSIC:
Well.