Derate the Hate: Bridging Divides with Wilk Wilkinson

I sit down with Wilk Wilkinson, host of the Derate the Hate podcast and Director at Braver Angels, for a real conversation about mindset, gratitude, faith, and the deep divisions in today's world. From growing up poor in the Midwest to becoming a national voice for civil discourse, Wilk shares powerful stories and insights on how to lead with empathy, take personal responsibility, and build a better future—one honest conversation at a time.

 🔗 Wilk’s podcast: deratethehate.com
🌐 Braver Angels: braverangels.org
 

Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: We are live on a beautiful, beautiful Thursday. Uh, my name's Rob Valencia. I am the host of the Drink Clock podcast, and I have with me Wilke Wilkerson, which is a fucking awesome name by the way. Uh, and you are a husband, you're a father, and you're the host of the Derate the Hate Podcast, along with being a Christian conservative, which we've had a couple of those on the podcast.

Welcome to the show, man.

Wilk Wilkerson: Glad to be here, Rob. Man, it's, uh, it's a pleasure. Thank you.

Rob Valincius: You got a cool background, dude. What's, what's the, uh, what's that painting?

Wilk Wilkerson: So this fellow here is, is somebody I, I do not know. And, and so it's, here's an interesting story for you, Rob. So, back when I first got outta the service in the late nineties, I drove CAB in the city of Orlando and, uh. And there was this gal named Ms. Coleman that I used to pick up at the YMCA, uh, quite often down in Winter Park, would take her back to her, uh, her, her town home.

She was, you know, kind of disabled. Uh, she was quite old at the time. I think she was in her late eighties, nineties, whatever. So I'd drive

Rob Valincius: Gotta gotta love old people, bro. I work in the senior market. I love when someone's in their eighties and nineties and they're fucking out and about,

Wilk Wilkerson: they're just doing stuff and, and you know, I got a lot of respect for people who, you know, they don't just give up, right? They're, they're out there, they're doing stuff. And she would go down to the YMCA like three times a week to swim and, and, and try to get some exercise and, and whatever. She couldn't walk very well, but she would go get in the pool and kinda walk laps, you know, and, and she would request me, uh, as a cab driver to pick her up and bring her back to her house.

Well, she had all these portraits hanging in her garage, uh, from her husband who had died. He was a portrait artist. He had died like in the, probably in the, like the late seventies or early eighties. He had been gone a long time, so he had all these portraits hanging in the garage. She had no idea who these people were.

They were just people that never came back for these portraits. And I had mentioned, I, I had mentioned that I liked this one a couple times, and I think it was like, I think it was either Christmas or my birthday or, or something. But, but she asked me one day, she's like, do you want that painting? I'm like, are you sure?

She's like, I have no idea who it is. And they aren't coming back for it. You know, my husband's been dead for, you know, two decades. I, I don't know. So long story short, she gave me that painting. Uh, it was like 19 98, 19 99. So I've had it for 20, you know, five 30, almost 30 years now, I guess. So I have no idea who this guy is.

I just love the painting and, uh, and I have it in my background.

Rob Valincius: That's, you know what, dude, that's a cool story because, uh, I'd imagine if she was 80 or 90 in the nineties, she's probably not around anymore. And if she is, holy shit. Um, but it's wild just how long a media can outlive a human, right?

Wilk Wilkerson: right.

Rob Valincius: mean, paintings, YouTube, and these podcasts, I mean, who knows who's gonna be listening to this podcast in 50 years?

I mean, if anyone who knows, you know, but maybe you know, someone. I, I, I look at it this way. It's a legacy thing for me. Uh,

Wilk Wilkerson: exactly. What legacy do you wanna live?

Rob Valincius: Yeah, I don't have any kids. Uh, I have dogs. We love our dogs, we like our kids. Um, but, uh, my brother just had a, a baby. He, he turns one, um, in July or August 1st. I think it was August 1st.

And, uh, I, I kind of think it would be cool to like, Hey, check out my podcast when you're, you know, 10, 15, you know, and, um, stuff like that. You, you don't really think about that stuff when you're in your twenties. But when you're in your thirties and forties, that's when you shit really starts to like hit the mind like, Hey, you know, I don't wanna just disappear.

I wanna, I wanna leave something on the earth, you know?

Wilk Wilkerson: Oh, no, absolutely. I mean, I, well, I'll be honest with you, Rob. Uh, if I think back to the stuff that I was doing in my twenties and my thirties, I don't want my kids to remember me for that stuff. But I, I will tell you this, the stuff that I'm doing now with, you know, I've got 200 and, I don't know, 280 some podcast episodes, and that doesn't count the times that I've guessed on others and the stuff that I'm doing now to better the world in which we live, that's the legacy that I wanna leave for my kids, my nephews, the people that come behind me.

I do it for that reason because the world that we live in right now has got some issues, obviously, and, uh, I just wanna do my part to fix it. And, uh, yeah. So, but I will tell you, when talking about our twenties, talking about our thirties, all the mistakes, all the crazy shit that I was doing then is actually how I got to where I am now.

So I don't, you know, don't have a lot of regrets in that sense. But, uh, definitely learned a lot of lessons the hard way.

Rob Valincius: You know what I tell people all the time, um, I think what makes us human is, you know, how we handle a situation and who we become at the end of that. And, um, you know, some people lay down and die. That's just, that's who they are. And I'm not knocking it for it, you know, if that's, if that's your prerogative.

That's you. But I think if you, and it's tough and, um, I've talked a lot about this, you know, on my podcast, and I don't know, I, I didn't get a chance to check yours out, but I, I don't know if you've talked about this, but in today's society, people are very quick, especially younger people, to just give up.

Like, oh, the world is just against me, and they give up. Um, and you see that a lot more now, but you, you know, uh, how old are you? Book.

Wilk Wilkerson: I will turn 50 here in a few months, so

Rob Valincius: So I'll be, I'll be 39 next week, so I'm pushing 40. So we're, we're in that same bracket right where we grew up when the internet really wasn't a thing, you know, we had to go outside and play your, your mom's like, Hey, make sure you're home by dark, you know, like there was, we didn't all have cell phones and like, but we got to like grow up and then grow into that.

Whereas you had, you know, today's day and age, that's just what they have, right? They all, they have all of this stuff. Um, and I think something changed, right, you know, with that algorithm. And it's changed how people are now. Not everyone's like that. 'cause I think you do have people that are like us, that are having kids that are teaching them the values and they're teaching them, Hey, you know, if you get knocked down, pick yourself back up.

You know? And, and, and do do better. Don't just give up. Right. Because if you give up then, uh, you know what's, what's the famous Michael Scott saying, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take right. When Gretzky. But, um, you know, that, that's like the, the type of mentality I think we, we, we need to get back to.

It's tough. Um, because I don't think it's like that now with a lot of people, especially younger people, unfortunately.

Wilk Wilkerson: It is not. And and unfortunately, uh, I think what it comes down to, Rob is people have lost their ability to, to, and not all people, obviously there's, you know, but I, I, I think there's, there is an epidemic in this world today of people who have lost their ability to deal with adversity, right? Uh, you know, they're, they're, they're in constant search of, uh, recognition.

Some kind of, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know, I don't want to call it like a built-in narcissism thing or whatever, but they, when you grow up in an age of, of influencers and all of these different shows that have, have done all of these. You know, they, they, they portray these kids' lives in these shows now in a way that is just not real life.

And, and so, so people are in constant search of recognition and when they don't get the recognition that they're looking for, for whatever it happens to be, you know, constantly being told they did a good job just because they did something that they should have been doing anyway, uh, or things like that.

It really puts them in a position. It's, it's almost like setting them up to fail because they have not had the opportunity to work through the idea that not every parent is going to be at every soccer practice. Not every parent is going to be able to go to every single little thing that you're doing all the time.

You know, and, and so, so they, they are, are, are constantly bombarded online and on television and, and whatever with the idea that, you know, parents are there to be at your beck and call and you are, you know, you are the center of the universe all the time. And that's just not a reality. It's just not. And it will never be.

But, but they are made to believe that and it's a false. It, it's a, it's, it's certainly a false perception that is, is presented to them on what life is going to be. And then when real life starts, when they have to start interacting with real life, well then it's like getting hit in the face with a frying pan, right?

I mean, it's, it's a Mack truck running your ass over because that is not real life. And, and, and they're just being bombarded constantly, you know, through screen time and, and things like that with this false perception of what things are. And it's just not going to be that way. It's not that way. So, to your point, uh, we, we live in an, in an age right now where people, once they are presented with real life and they cannot deal with real life because they have not built that muscle, right?

They have not built that muscle to actually deal with adversity. They just curl up in the fetal position, stick their thumb in their mouth, and wish that it would all go away. You know, it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's unfortunate, but quite honestly, the, the answer is in the home. The answer is with the parents.

The answer is, you know, we, we can't have screens raising our children. We cannot pretend like, uh, allowing YouTube to raise our kids is going to produce good fruit. Right? So, you know, it's, it's easier to, it's easier to build good people than fix broken adults. I, I will tell you that.

Rob Valincius: I would agree with you. And, and, and look, I dunno about you, but we didn't get trophies for last, last place. You know, it's like, hey, do better next time, bud. Go, go, go home. You know, like I played a lot of sports growing up and uh, you know, never once did I get a, Hey, good job for letting that guy score. You know, good job for being out there.

No, that's my coach was like, what the fuck were you doing? You know, why didn't you, why didn't you cover the goal, you know, playing soccer? Why didn't you, uh, hit that basket, you know, when you needed to, you know, like, I, look, I, I rant sometimes. That's my rant of the day is like, I do, I do, I have hope though.

I do have hope because I feel like I'm starting to see more and more people speak out to like, Hey, look like, deal with it. And a lot of it's us millennials where we're coming out of the woodwork and it's like, look, this, this needs to, this shit needs to stop. You know? 'cause we've been quiet. For a while I feel like, um, and I think like, like my dad was born in the sixties, you know, my dad, he'll be 62 in January and he's just, he's not good with technology and I don't think he understands, like he's smart to a certain degree, but he doesn't understand the way the world is now.

And I think that generation is like that. And then you have your generation, um, and then you have my generation, and then outside of that it's just, it's a cluster fuck, you know? But, um, I'll end my rant there. Let's talk about you, dude. Let's talk about Wilke. All right. Um, I'd love to start my episodes with your background.

So talk to me. I know you've had a unique background. You talked about working at an early age. So tell me a, tell me and my listeners a little bit about yourself and growing up and kind of how you got to where you are now.

Wilk Wilkerson: Right. So, uh, yeah, I appreciate the question, man. Uh, so. So everybody's got a story, and every story matters. And, and I think it's important to, to let everybody know that when I talk about my background, I, I don't do it to try and make people feel sorry for me. 'cause I don't want anybody feeling sorry for me.

Uh, and I, and I don't, don't, don't try to pretend like my background is any worse than anybody else's. But I will tell you this, Rob, is, you know, when I was a, a, a very young person growing up in the, in the Midwest, early, uh, you know, early eighties, I mean, I was born in the mid seventies, but, you know, my first recollection of, of a lot of things started happening in like, you know, the 1980, you know, so, so the world was very, very different in, in the eighties, especially in the Midwest, in the rural Midwest.

It, you know, it, it, uh. It, it was, it was a hard time for a lot of people, uh, especially people my parents' age, you know, coming, you know, post-Vietnam era. Uh, the economy in the late seventies was just horseshit. It was horrible. Uh, if you, uh, were part of the blue collar working class, it, it, it was, it was kind of ugly, right.

And, and my folks were, were no exception and they were no angels and, and, and, uh, great people just, uh, probably weren't doing things the way, uh, you know, the best way that they could. And, and they did the best they could, uh, while not doing the best thing they could, I guess. And, and so, so we moved around a lot.

And, uh, jobs and work were sometimes tough to find, and sometimes the work that you found didn't pay enough to, to, uh, put food on the table or, or buy the clothes that we needed or whatever. So I was poor, you know, I was poor.

Rob Valincius: been there. Been there, brother.

Wilk Wilkerson: Yeah. Yeah. So, so we moved around and, and balanced around and, and went where the work was.

And then eventually, you know, when I was a teenager, my dad went back to college and, and, and, uh, and, and started doing, you know, doing things better. At that point, I had already, you know, at the age of 10, I started working, right? I wanted a, uh, I wanted a, a motorcycle. Well, initially I wanted a, uh, initially I wanted a, a, a jean, or not a jean jacket, like a leather jacket, like Michael Jackson, uh, for whatever reason, couldn't dance, couldn't sing, but I wanted a, a leather jacket, jacket like Michael Jackson, because he was the coolest thing out there at the time.

And, uh, so I, I started, my dad said, okay, well, yeah, we'll raise some chickens. I'll give you a quarter for everyone that, that stays alive, you know, by the end of the whatever period of time it was. And, and you can buy whatever you want. I ended up buying a baseball glove with it instead of a, a, a leather jacket because my dad said, Hey, it's your money.

You earned it. You make the decision and uh, you do what you do. So that was the, that was my first lesson in figuring out how I take the money that I earn, get what I want, and the consequences are if I don't want, if I want one thing, I don't get the other. That's the way it was. I started working three jobs by the time I was 10, two paper routes, and I was a janitor at a dry cleaning business.

Monday through Friday from five to five 30, I cleaned the lint filters, took out the trash, got paid five bucks a week for it, saved up, bought my first motorcycle at 10 years old. I've been working ever since. So I say all that to say this, there was a lot of things my parents couldn't give me. One thing they did give me was a lot of love.

I loved my parents. They loved me. And, uh, they, they loved me. They loved my sisters. And uh, what they couldn't give was like material things. So all that stuff I had to get myself and I learned to earn. Uh, and I worked my way up, uh, being a blue collar guy. Um, tried going to college a number of different times.

I was in the service for a while and, uh, never, you know, never liked college, never finished college, but worked my way up and, uh, have done very well for myself, uh, in the world of business. And, uh, and, and so here I am today. You know, I do a podcast. I, I, uh, I, I work with an organization called Braver Angels.

I'm, I'm now their, their director of media and, uh, media systems and operations. And, uh, uh, I've, I've had conversations with some of the greatest people in the world, you know, some of the greatest thought leaders in the world. I've, I've been in interactions with, uh, with, with people. I mean, presidents of the United States know who I am.

It's, it's, it's the weirdest thing, Rob to, to actually. Live out the thing that so many people say cannot happen because it can happen. And, uh, and I've done it. So, um, I, I tell you what, it, it really starts with mindset. So you ask, you know, who am I? What, you know, what, what's my story? Right? My story is the fact that I had a lot of animosity, a lot of anger, a lot of things that I learned growing up and, and bad behavior that I learned growing up.

And I learned that you don't learn from your mistakes, life will keep kicking your ass. And, uh,

Rob Valincius: Quite true,

Wilk Wilkerson: and, and, and I, I got tired of getting my ass kicked to be frank. Uh, so. So I've made a lot of mistakes made, made more than my share. And, uh, uh, the one thing is, is I, I, I've accepted accountability for them. I, I look at the mistakes that I've made and I've, uh, I've learned from them.

I've built upon, uh, the lessons from them and, and I've turned my life into something that I, I am unbelievably grateful for. And, uh, I just consider myself a blessed man now because of it.

Rob Valincius: So when did you first realize that personal accountability and gratitude could transform your life?

Wilk Wilkerson: So, you know, I, I used to hear people talk about gratitude and, and, and what are you grateful for today? And, and things like that. And it, it just seemed, you know, very cliche. And, and

Rob Valincius: Gimmicky, right?

Wilk Wilkerson: Gimmicky. Yeah, sure. Right. And, but, but then I started to learn about things like the reticular activating system and what that is and why that works.

And, and, and so when I started to put all of these things together, you know, like, uh, like gimmicky phrases, like fake it until you make it. And, and, uh, you know, what are you grateful

Rob Valincius: Living the dream.

Wilk Wilkerson: Living the dream, right?

Rob Valincius: say all the time.

Wilk Wilkerson: Um, yeah. People ask me how I'm doing. I say, if I was any better, I'd have to be twins, right?

Because there's not enough, there's not enough of me to be this good. Um, you know, it's so, so I started thinking about those things, right? And I started, um, I was in a real estate conference several years ago with a guy named Brian Pert. It was the first time I had heard about the reticular activating system and how that thing works, and he was talking more about the ideas of opportunities and how to, you know, how to use that reticular activating system in the world of business and, and why it's important for, for seeking out opportunities.

But then years later, when I started learning more about gratitude and why gratitude was important, and, and then I started thinking about, and I started combining the two things and I said, you know, if I start thinking about what I'm grateful for each day. And start focusing on what I'm grateful for as opposed to those things that I don't have, or the things that I wish I had or focusing on the things that I wish I'd done differently yesterday or wishing I, I, you know, thinking about the, the, the shit thing I said to somebody a month ago, or a year ago, or, or, or beating myself up over this particular thing or, or that particular thing. If I start focusing Rob on the things that I am grateful for, my brain can only focus on so many things at any given time, and by focusing on what I am grateful for, all of a sudden I start to find more things that I'm grateful for and my brain naturally. Because of the reticular activating system will start to fall away from all of those other things, the things that make me angry, the things that bug me, the things that I wish I had done that I didn't do.

You know, I, you know, uh, I could focus today on all the things that I wish I had done when I was 25 years old when my body wasn't all busted to shit. But now I'm going on 50 years old. I'm in a lot of pain. I can't do those things today. But you know what? I still have a lot to be grateful for today. So why would I sit here today?

And this is where the personal responsibility thing comes in. Why would I sit here today and beat myself up for all the things I wish I'd done when I was 25 and waste the minutes that I have left today sitting here at 50? So,

Rob Valincius: Time is our biggest enemy, right? At

Wilk Wilkerson: it is.

Rob Valincius: the end of the day.

Wilk Wilkerson: It is, but it's also our biggest friend, right? Because I, I mean, we only have so much of it.

We'll never make more of it. I mean, so, so why would we, I mean, and you say it's our biggest enemy. I wouldn't say it's an enemy so much as an opportunity, right? So when we think, uh, you know, I'm a business guy, so I think about strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, right? Uh, I, I think of instead of, instead of time being an enemy or a threat, enemy or, or, or time is an opportunity, right?

What do we have left? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. We got, we got no idea, you know, whether we got five minutes, five years, or 50, uh uh, but it's an opportunity to take what we have left, which we, we just don't know. The bucket is an infinite, that's the only thing we know. Say, okay, why would I waste it on things that I can't control?

Why would I waste my mental energy, my physical, whatever I've got left for physical, whatever, and waste those minutes that I have left because I don't know how many have got. So when I think about personal responsibility, you know, this is, this is, this is where it's so important for everybody is don't waste your mental energy or your happiness or anything else on things that you cannot control.

Focus on that what you can control. Be grateful for the things that you have and make every single day, the day that you want it to be. Because ultimately it comes down to you and you making the day, the day that you want it to be.

Rob Valincius: I couldn't agree more. I mean, I, I talked about this multiple times, probably even last week. I was one of those people I've, I've had that just, you know, I wish I would've did this. I wish I would've did that. And I sometimes just wake up miserable every day. I just wake up miserable. And it got to a point where I'm like, all right, I need to, you know, I need to start thinking about the things I do have.

Right. You know, the, the wifey, the dogs a house a good job. I, I have things. I got a computer, I got my podcast. I got businesses like, and, um, look, I'm not perfect. I still have plenty of days where I wake up in a shitty mood just 'cause we're human. But I think just, just trying to, it took a while, right? It's not gonna happen overnight, but it, I think just having that mentality has changed me.

Like I'm a lot happier now than I was. Two, three years ago, even though I have the same things, right, I have, it's not like anything really changed. It's just that my mentality, I had to just take myself out of this woe, you know? Like, it wasn't like unhappy all the time, but I just, I would try to focus on things like, Hey, I could, I could do this, or I, I could have did this.

I, I could have a better job, I could have a better car, or I could have a bigger house. If you don't focus on that and you just focus on the things you do have, I think more and more people would be happier. It's not easy, and I'm still working on it. Um, and I, you know, I say this all the time because there's, you know, there's things you just can't change, right?

I mean, and you just have to just kind of. Life is weird. You just gotta go with the flow. I mean, there's nothing else you can really do. I mean, there's things you can change. Your mindset is definitely one of them. Right. Um, and it's, it's something, yeah. I mean, it's something you, you were basically talking about the whole time there is, is your mindset.

Um, could you, could you break down what the, what did you say? The reticular activating system, could you break that down? Like for dummies? Like what is that?

Wilk Wilkerson: So the reticular activating system is, is just like this little, uh, pencil style thing, like right in the back of your brain, right? It's just this little thing. Or that's where, that's where it's activated, that's where it works or, or whatever. I don't, I don't know the, you know, the, the, the medical, uh, all the, all the medical ideas or the neurology parts of it.

But, but the reality of the reticular activating system is, is, is it works. The best way that I've heard it explained Rob, is this. So, uh, so I used to drive a Chevy Avalanche, right? I, I, I drove a green Chevy Avalanche and, and I had that truck for several years. And while I was driving that Chevy Avalanche, uh, or for the years that I had it.

I would notice almost every Chevy avalanche on the road because it was what's most familiar to me. Right? So it's very familiar to me that Chevy Avalanche, uh, I is, is, is what I was used to. Now when that Chevy Avalanche finally crapped out on me, and I had to get a new truck, I got a, I got a Silverado.

Now all of a sudden I'm driving a Silverado. I don't necessarily notice all of the avalanches anymore, but I do notice the Chevy Silverados. Right. Or, uh, you know, or if you have a particular shirt that you are wearing on a particular day, for whatever reason, your brain is going to catch if somebody else is wearing that same shirt, right?

And it'd be like, Rob at the office is, is wearing the same shirt as I am. What the hell's going on here? You know, it had to be today, but, but you notice it. Whereas any other day you probably wouldn't even notice that Rob is wearing that shirt. Right? So, um, it, it's the reticular activating system. It's going to.

Trigger in your brain and, and lock onto what you have that's most familiar to you. Okay? So, so when you, as, as a human being, and this is just a human thing, I mean, it's, it's, it's something that we all, you know, that are sound, mind and body have, and if you have, what's, if you are constantly focused on being a victim, right?

So, so let, uh, let's go back to, you talked about participation trophies and, and participation ribbons and things like that, right? So, so kids nowadays are used to, you know, getting that, that trophy or getting that whatever, and, and they, they just, they, they don't know how to deal with adversity, right? And part of that is, is due to what I call the perpetual victim mentality.

Because if you, for whatever reason, if every time something doesn't go your way, you have an inability to, to deal with that particular thing. You then make that the most familiar thing in your brain instead of focusing all the, on all the good things that are happening in your life. Like, I've got a warm bed to sleep in tonight.

I've got clean water to bathe in and drink. I, I've got food on the table. You know, I've, I've got, I've got parents that love me. I've got, you know, all of these things, right? Instead of that, now all of a sudden I'm a victim. That coach was out to get me. That referee was out to get me. I, I, you know, and that becomes what's most familiar to you.

You start to focus on that which you don't have in life or what bothers you in life or what, whatever. So you can actually turn this thing around. You can actually steer that reticular activating system by focusing on those things that you're grateful for and those things that make you happy. You know, there's a, there's an old phrase, right, where some people will look at a field full of weeds and pick out the one flower, and then there's other people that will look at a field full of flowers and see the one weed, right?

So it's, it's what you choose to focus on in life that's going to bring you more of that particular thing. Now, it doesn't mean that you have a lot of better things than everybody else in the world, and it doesn't mean that they have a lot of worse things than you do, but our brain can only focus on so many things.

Our reticular activating system right here in the back of the brain can only focus on so many things at any given time. And if you are focused. On, and you make the thing that you're most familiar with, all the things that piss you off or make you feel like a victim or whatever, you are going to seek out points of affirmation for that.

Naturally. It's a human reaction. It sucks, but it's a human thing, right? But if you focus on those things that you're grateful for and those things that make you happy and those things, those wins in life, right? I don't care if it's one win a day or, or whatever. But if the most familiar thing in your brain was this win, or that win or the other win and, and, and their actual wins, not participation trophies, because then you're just setting people up again for failure.

But if you focus on real wins in life, you know, I made it to work today and didn't hit a single stoplight, you know? Um, uh, or, or

Rob Valincius: Nobody cut me off.

Wilk Wilkerson: yeah, right. Um, uh, but. It's amazing how life begins to change because of that thing. Because of that thing in the back of our brain, we can change the trajectory of our day on any given day because of what we choose to make most familiar to us.

You know, instead of focusing on the fact that the, the, the water in the shower wasn't hot enough this morning. I focus on the fact that I had a nice towel that s smelled good when I got outta the shower. Okay. I, I, I mean, I'm just using, I'm just throwing out examples here, but it's a matter of what you focus on, what you talked about.

You talked about, uh, some days you wake up in a shitty mood, right? But, but the reality is, is, is, you know, like when I think about each day, you know, each day that I'm, I'm not traveling and I wake up, uh, I wake up. I wake up next to my wife, it's, it's, it's the best thing that I could do on any given day is wake up and my wife's right next to me.

You know, she typically gets up a lot later than I do. It's not like we talk when I first wake up, but just the fact that she's there, I can, I can, you know, before I get out of the bed, I, I roll over, give her a kiss on the cheek, and I get out of bed, I go take a shower and I start my day. Right. That is a huge thing for me.

I love that. It's a, it's, it's just one of the things that I focus on as being part of how I want my day to start, you know, but on the days that I'm traveling and, and I'm speaking somewhere or I'm at a conference or whatever, and I wake up and my wife is not there, do I focus on the fact that my wife is not next to me?

No. I focus on the next thing that, that I'm, I'm grateful for, right? I got a clean towel. I'm in, I'm in a nice hotel room. I'm not sleeping in the back of a van, some, you know, whatever it is, right? But I get to choose personal responsibility. I get to choose my response. I get to choose what I'm gonna focus on today.

And if I focus on something that's positive as opposed to what's negative, I've got a much better chance of having a good day.

Rob Valincius: I couldn't agree more with you. Um, and I think, I think more people need, need to do that. Um, but I will say this at a personal thing, I'm still working on it and it's, it takes time

Wilk Wilkerson: It's not an overnight.

Rob Valincius: your brain, yeah, your brain is just, I, I'm a creature of habit, you know? I, I like doing things a certain way, and when something isn't that way, it throws me off.

And then things, you know, then I have to handle it. And that's, that's being human. Right? But like, it's also part of that too is like how you handle that adversity that messes up, you know, your, your, I guess your, your rhythm. Your, your everyday rhythm. Um, now you talk a lot about civility, you know, steaming humanity and others.

Obviously we live in a polarizing world today. Divisive, you know, in a lot of ways, right? Um, whether that's, um, you know, politics and religion or even the color of your skin these days, right? Um, well that's kind of always been around, unfortunately, but that's also still there. How can people actually start practicing, um, civility, um, on a day basis?

Like, what's one thing you think that everybody could do, um, you know, to, to add to their everyday lives?

Wilk Wilkerson: Listen with the intent to understand. Rather than to respond, right? So when you get into a conversation, uh, you know, the, the, the everybody is going to have triggers, right? I mean, we've, we've all, you know, even me, I, I say, you know, nothing offends me, right? But, but the reality is, is there's always going to be something for all people that's going to, uh, to trigger them, going to offend them or whatever.

But I will tell you this, Rob, when it comes down to it, when we're having conversations with somebody that we are very, say we're, we're quite certain that we're going to disagree with, the reality is, is we need to open our ears and open our mind, not with the intent to, you know, we, we don't have to, uh, we don't have to let our preconceived notions. Inhibit our ability to listen to people and try to understand how they've come to believe, what they believe. You know? So I, I, I think one of the biggest things that we can do is engage with people in, in conversations, engage with people that are outside of our bubble, engage with people that, that we very likely are going to disagree with, but do it in a way not to try and change their mind, not hardened to the idea that they might change your mind, but listen to truly understand who they are and how they have come to believe what they believe.

Even on, on, on the most contentious and u ugly, uh, of, of issues. Listen with the intent to understand and have an, have a mind open enough to the idea, you know, you talked about, uh, you know, pro-human. I talk a lot about pro-human stance and, and civility and, and you know, I sit on, I, I mean, I work for the organization, braver Angels, which is America's largest cross partisan, grassroots organization, bridging political divides, trying to, trying to, you know, cross those, uh, partisan divides, right?

But I also sit on the board, uh, of advisors for an organization called the Pro-Human Foundation, which, which is, is really about educating people on what a pro-human stance is and why that's important in our interactions in life, right? As human beings, we all have. Uh, very similar wants, needs. I don't care.

You know, what ethnicity you are, what color you are, what, where, what part of the planet you came from. You know, we're, we're all human beings with, with very similar wants and needs. You know, when it comes down to it, you know, we want a warm bed to sleep in at night. We want to a, a place that's secure to raise our family.

We, you know, we want to be safe so we don't get eaten by tigers or robbed by vandals in the overnight, right? Things like that. We, we, we all start with that same pro humanity footing. So if we can at least start there, you know, people say, well, I've got nothing in common with this person. What do you mean you've got nothing in common with this person?

If you don't drink water today, and I don't drink water today, we're both gonna die if that's the only thing we have in common. We've got something in common, right? So, so that pro humanity footing, if we at least start there and then realize. And to go to, I'm gonna quote a, a very good friend of mine, Monica Gosman.

She's incredible and, and one of the things that she says is, those who are underrepresented in our life will be overrepresented in our minds and our imaginations. Now, the key to that phrase, and I'll say it again, those who are underrepresented in our life will be overrepresented in our minds and our imaginations.

What happens is, with them being overrepresented in our minds and our imaginations, it's quite often not in a good way. You know, we don't say, I'm going to stay away from this person or this group of people, and I'm going to figure out all the reasons that they are the greatest people in the world. It just doesn't work that way, right?

So if we stay stuck in our own silos and don't have conversations with people we disagree with, or people, you know, that if, if, if conservatives don't ever talk to liberals and liberals don't ever talk to conservatives, the only thing that really happens then is their effective polarization. The, the, the way that they believe about those people, the things that they believe about those people get more and more negative, and they are less and less likely to interact with them in a civil way.

You know, so, so anything that we do in life that keeps us polarized, uh, like watch the news, um, will.

Rob Valincius: It depends on where you watch it.

Wilk Wilkerson: Well, it, it, you know, some are worse than others, that's for sure. But the reality is, is, is if, if you, you know, if alls you're doing is interacting with outrage entrepreneurs online and in, in social media and people that are, are trying to keep us divided, chances are you are going to stay pretty divided.

You know, your, your effective polarization bias is going to, uh, just gonna become more enhanced all the time and effect. And, and effectively, you, you don't know anything about those people, but you've made up in your mind what those people are. And, and it's quite often a, a mischaracterization of who they actually are.

So, so the reality is this, Rob, going back to your original question, what can we do to. Obtain the toxicity and, and enhance the civility. Have conversations, get out there and, and be kind to your neighbor no matter what they, you know, maybe they, maybe they're a different religion than you. Different color than you.

They come from a different part of the planet than you do. But the reality is, is if our default position is kind and our default, uh, setting is to listen to them with the intent to understand, you know, then uh, the world's gonna be a much better place.

Rob Valincius: Look man. I agree. Um, you know, you have the, um. You have the mentality now, especially with social media, that it's like, um, the group, you know, whatever the popular majority thinks is what you should think. And when you don't, you're, you know, I don't wanna say, um, you're ostracized, right? Um, and I think that's, I grew up at a time where, and you, I'm sure same thing where we could have healthy debates with each other and walk away friends, right?

You could, you could have a disagreement with somebody and not hate them. Um, and especially if, if you yourself have good points and you're able to bestow those points in a meaningful manner, not like going my point's the right point, you suck. That's not gonna win over anybody. If it does, I'm shocked, right?

Um, but if, if you can, if I can come out and say, Hey, look, this is what I think this is, these are my thoughts, and here's why. Um, I don't see why you can't have a healthy debate. I, I look you have a lot of keyboard warriors. I think the internet has hurt a lot of that. Uh, but I do see us healing a bit there.

I do. I am starting to see, and maybe you can agree or disagree, but I do, I am starting to see more back and forth where you're not criticized for not having that popular thought. Right. Which we're human man. I think that it should be 50 50 unless it's something like. Crazy. Right? Obviously there's probably gonna be, you know, like, like we're all gonna say, okay, world War ii, the execution of, of Jews with, with World War II and Hitler, that was wrong.

We can all agree on that, right? Uh, but if it's like, I, like, you know, uh, vanilla and you like chocolate, we should be able to debate that a little bit. Like, ah, you know, chocolate also has this, right? Like, there's certain things you should be able to be able, uh, to debate and walk away. Still not like hating each other.

Um, we got away from that, but I do, I, I dunno. Do you agree? Have you, I've seen some, I've seen it better now than I have maybe two, three years ago.

Wilk Wilkerson: Yeah. Well, I, I think the tide is turning right a, a, a bit rob, because people are starting to realize that we are not nearly as different as many people would have You believe We are not nearly as polarized as, as people would have you believe? We are still in, in very polarized times. I mean, don't get me wrong.

I mean, I think we're, we are as divided on certain things as, as we have probably been, uh, since the Civil War. I mean in the United States. Um, the, the, the thing about that is our perception of things and, and just. For your listeners. I, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna kind of play things out a little bit. We mentioned, we've mentioned a, a number of times, uh, you know, how technology has changed, you know, over the generations and, and how much of a role, uh, the internet has, has played in, in our time.

And, you know, I, I can remember a time and, and I'm sure you can too to a certain extent, where, uh, you know, we, we didn't have 24 hour news cycles and, and the internet to bombard us with things every minute of every day. And we didn't have a time, you know, there was a time when not every single thing that we, we discussed had to do with pol, you know, pol politics and, and, and the reality I, is this.

One of the other big downfalls and, and and big drags on society that the internet has, has brought to us is the idea that we personalize all of these different things that aren't necessarily happening in our neighborhoods, in our communities, right. In, in, in our town. And so, so when we think about things like, you know, violent crime, right?

Violent crime is still very, very small in this country, relative to other big, you know, countries. But when you see, when alls you see on the news every single day or, or coming across your feed on, on social media is, you know, these people were shot and those people were shot and everything else, uh, you know, we, we, we start to personalize gang violence.

That's happening in Chicago or Minneapolis, in outstate, Minnesota, or I, you know, I'm not, I I've failed to ask where, where you're at, but the, but the reality, you're, I'm gonna be in Philly here in, in a couple months, but, but, um, we, we fail to realize that what's happening in downtown Philly is not happening out in rural Pennsylvania.

Right. It's just not. But since it's what we see all the time and it's the most prominent thing coming across our feed, we begin to personalize that. The same thing with polarization and the ugliness that we see, uh, online, right? We, we are meant to believe if we are listening to our politicians, we are meant to believe that this world is coming to an end.

And every single thing we think about is an existential threat. But it's not. It's not. It's really not it. So, so the reality is. Convincing or not even convincing, just, just waking people up to the idea that everything isn't an existential threat. Everything isn't black and white and, and our certainty on certain things.

Based on listening to your favorite news organization or your favorite online personality or grievance, grifters and outrage, entrepreneurs that are capitalizing upon people's fears, outrage, and grievance. If we don't open people's mind to the idea that certainty is the fastest way to lose sight of all the other beautiful things that are happening in this world, we're in trouble. So I lost track. I got on a roll there. I I I'm not what your freaking question was, man. But, but I tell you what, it, it's, it's, so, it's this, it's, it's, it really comes down to this civility. Toxic polarization. You know, my friend John Wood Jr. Always says toxic polarization, the one problem that ensures all other problems won't get solved.

It's an absolute truth. You know, uh, we have to realize that, that we, we, we must not fall victim to the idea that everything is a, is a black and white issue. And if I believe this way and you don't, then you're wrong and I'm not gonna talk to you anymore because you're wrong. You know, that's gonna put us in a very, very bad place.

And, uh, it's not where we wanna be.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, look man, and, and I gotta tell you this, I'm not a, uh, I'm not necessarily a conspiracy theorist,

Wilk Wilkerson: although

Rob Valincius: I do love conspiracy theories. Uh, I will tell you, I will tell you this, I've, I've read a lot of books, well, I do a lot of audio books 'cause I drive a lot. Um, but I'll tell you this, you know, for those of you that, that put your, your faith in, say the government.

The government doesn't always have your best interest at hand. Like, you know, I, I, uh, read a couple books recently about, uh, you know, um, it's called trit. It was, it was about a, um, LSD and after World War II and, and kind of its invention and things like that and, and how the government was playing with it and things like that.

But they talk a lot about, um, divisive things where the government was trying to, you know, um, they were doing it very subvertly, right? But they were trying to get divisive things to happen. Like they were, uh, cracking down on a lot on drugs like cocaine and things like that when they knew that a lot of, you know, younger.

Um, black kids. That's, that's what they were doing and that's what they were selling and they were putting them away for 30 years. Or if they were selling pot, they were putting them away for 40 years. Right. Which is insane to think about now. 'cause like it's legal in 30 something states. Um, so I, I do think it's, it's also, um, an education thing too for me.

Uh, whereas I've been reading a lot more books, not just like, I, I like nonfiction, right. But I also do a lot of fiction too. 'cause I like to, I feel like you need to massage the imagination a bit to a certain degree.

Wilk Wilkerson: I like it. Yeah.

Rob Valincius: the, the nonfiction stuff too is really important because you start to see other points of view.

You start to learn about things. Like, I had no idea, like I knew, um, uh, what was the, that's gonna drive me nuts now. What was the, the thing that they called the LSD trials that the government was secretly doing? Uh.

Wilk Wilkerson: Um, MK Ultra, no, let's.

Rob Valincius: MK Ultra. MK Ultra. Yeah. Yeah. It was mk. Yeah. So MK Ultra, I mean, they hired a guy that was not even part of the government and he ran fucking everything. And he was, he was testing every, he was testing people in the fucking FBI, like he would just spike LSD in their coffee. I mean, they were doing crazy.

And which is really illegal. Like there's rules and regulations with drugs and how you're supposed to like people, like if you're doing a test for drugs, someone has to give you consent. Like that is part of a law that was brought about after World War II when they found all the crazy shit Hitler was doing.

Right. And they're like, you can't do this. You can't just test to see if people can live for 24 days without sleep. You know? Or like crazy shit. Right? Um, so, so I'm not saying don't distrust the government, but sometimes. You also have to look inward and say, all right, who has my best interest at heart? At the end of the day, it's probably yourself, right?

You wanna, and, and, and you care about your family. And, and those, those things are important. Don't always put your trust outside your basket thinking like, oh yeah, the government. Oh, oh, yeah. Like, if that's a law, they're protecting me. No, it's not always true. So I I I feel like you do also have to be a healthy skeptic.

Is that, is, does that make sense?

Wilk Wilkerson: A healthy skeptic is great, man, because quite honestly, if you think about this, Rob, who is our best advocate, it's always gonna be us, right? Who, uh, I, I mean now there, there have been many times in my life where I was definitely not my best advocate, and I I was definitely not doing the best thing for me.

I, I, I fully acknowledge that, but, but you know, you talk about the government, and this is, this is actually something that, that I, I picked up. It was, and, and this is, it, it's, it's certainly, I think it's a paraphrase and, and definitely a little bit different than he says it, but in JD Vance's book, hillbilly Elegy, he talks about the government, uh, being neither the answer to or the cause of all of your problems ultimately coming down to this, right, is the government is important.

It's a necessary, what I would call. As a, you know, as a, as a, as a very conservative, almost libertarian guy in, in some respects, uh, I would say the government is, is in many ways a necessary evil, but I don't wanna believe that they're evil. You know, the, the reality is this, though, you know, it's not the cause of all your problems and it's not the answer to all of your problems.

Uh, ultimately the best thing that you can do for yourself is become an engaged and educated citizen. Right? And, and, and the reality is also this, I mean, there's a, there's a part two to that because being an engaged in an educated citizen also comes with the idea that not everything that you're thinking about and dealing with on any given day has to be political, right?

So, so there's a lot of things that we can deal with in life that, that are not. You know, they're not a political issue. There is not a right way to look at it and a left way to look at it. There's sometimes it's just a human way to look at it, right? Uh, there is not a governmental answer. Now I know there's a lot of people in the government that will tell you different, but there is not a governmental answer to every single problem that we have.

In fact, I would contend, uh, and, and I've said this before, but I think a lot of politicians spend a lot of their time pretending to fix issues that they themselves created just to keep the, the cycle going. Right?

Rob Valincius: They need their, they need their job.

Wilk Wilkerson: right. So, so, so the thing, the thing about that is, is the government's important. It's needed, you know, having experts is important.

They are needed. You know, I don't like the idea of people telling us that, well, don't believe the experts because the experts cause all the problems. That's not true either, you know? But we have to find a balance in our lives as to what things do we want the government to deal with. What things can we deal with on our own?

What do we wanna do within our communities to, you know, live civilly and safely? You know, we're a tribal people. Humans are tribal. You know, we, we tend to work in groups. You know, you talked about the, the government performing experiments that we're, we're pretty, pretty whacked out, right? Yeah. I mean, there, there have been experience experiments all throughout human history, you know, to to see.

How the idea of teams and, and, and, and, and people become tribal and then they become angry towards people outside their tribe. It's human nature. Those things happen, you know? And then, I mean, you think about the books, you know, you think about like, Lord of the Flies and, and how things just go completely chaotic and, and if there's no rules at all, you know, people just start killing it and it, it just gets out of control.

So we have to make a choice as individuals. Do we want to live in complete chaos all the time? Because if we wanna live in complete chaos all the time, there's no safety, there's no security. We don't get the things that we have. You know, I, I think that, you know, America's the greatest country in the world.

The vast majority of us could, uh, you know, could go to bed at night and not, not lock our doors and, and, and we're gonna wake up the next day with no, no issues. It's just, you know, a good thing. A lot of places in this planet or on this planet. The people can't say the same thing. You know, they're, they're trying to find a, a hole to sleep in and hope that they don't get eaten by a tiger.

You know, the the reality is, is, is we have to decide as a people, as a, as a human race, you know, do we wanna work together or do we want to keep fighting with each other? And, and we don't have to fight because we disagree. We just need to listen. Things can work even if we aren't on the same page on all things.

It's, uh, it's, it's, I

Rob Valincius: Slippery slope

Wilk Wilkerson: There you go.

Rob Valincius: is what I'd like to say. Um, let's, let's end on this. Um, I didn't get to like 90% of the shit I was gonna talk to you about. 'cause that's, that's what, anytime someone's an engaging person, that's what always happens. And that's good. If I get to all my questions, I'm always skeptical about how the, how the interview's gonna turn out.

Wilk Wilkerson: Uh, uh, uh.

Rob Valincius: this is, now, this is something I don't tend to bring up, but I know you're, I know you're, uh, a conservative, a Christian. Okay. And I've talked about this on my podcast many times, right? Um, I was, uh, baptized Catholic, so I'm, I'm, I'm a Christian. Um, but I will tell you this, I'm, I've always been more of a scientific person.

Um, I believe it when I see it. I've always been like that. Things have changed a little bit as I've gotten older. 'cause there's, there's things you can't explain that you don't, you don't fucking know. Um, but I, I will say this and I, I wanna talk to you, um, because I feel like we've had a great conversation tonight.

Um, talk to me about like, someone who's discovering their faith, right? I don't, although I am baptized as a Catholic and I'm a Christian, I don't know if I believe right. I, I'm, I'm still, I'm, I'm in this discovery phase of what do I actually believe happens when I die? Like, what happens to my soul? Where do I go?

Um, can you talk to me a little bit about like, you know, have you had these, this discussion with other people and you know, what do you say to those people who are still kind of discovering their faith, so to say?

Wilk Wilkerson: So that's an incredible question, right? And it's something that, that many of us, uh, in, in our, in our lives, will struggle with, right? You know, uh, when do we. You know, say yes to as, okay. I'm just gonna say, you know, a, as a Christian, you know, at what point would I, uh, would I, or did I say, uh, yes. I, I'm, I'm going to be a follower of Jesus Christ.

I, I believe that he died for my sins. I, I believe that had he not died for, for our sins on the cross, that, you know, we, we wouldn't have the salvation and the everlasting life. That, that we get to have a as Christians, right. A lot of those things can be debated and a lot of those things come on faith. Um, it, it's, it's one of the hardest and yet most important decisions I think any human being can make in, in this world.

Right? And, and, and there's a lot of. Things you talked about science, right? And how science, uh, relates to, uh, to, to God and Christianity. And, and I'll go to a, a book that you may want to, to read and, and I don't know if it's on Audible, but I, I know it was written by a, a person that I respect a lot. A, a good friend of mine named Dr.

Francis Collins. He wrote the book, the Language of God. Um, he was also the head of the IIH he, he headed up the Human Genome Project, uh, has worked for several presidents. Him and I are, are, have developed a very close friendship. Um, he talks about, you know, how Christianity and science are compatible and how those things work together.

I will also say that, that for me. It was never a thing where I did not, uh, or I was not able to, to, um, to comport the whole science and, and Christianity thing together. Uh, I, I,

Rob Valincius: And, and real quick, I don't think you can.

Wilk Wilkerson: yeah.

Rob Valincius: think I, I think there's a correlation, but I do think that faith at its core is something you can explain. And I think science is something you, you have to be able to explain with, with evidence. So I do think maybe there is a point where they interject, but I do think that at some point.

You have to say, oh, well, I, I believe, and that doesn't always correlate with science. And that's, I think for me, that's been a little bit of my issue. But as I've gotten older, I, I have start, you think about death a lot more when you're not, when you're not 20, you know, when you're, when you're, you're getting older and things start to happen, like, oh, my back hurts.

Like, am I dying? You, you start to think a little bit more about, well, what happens after I die? And that's kind of where I am. And I, you know, my mom and my dad both very much believe Jesus died for our sins. They're, they're very much a Christian. They believe in that. And I'm not saying I, I don't believe, I do think there's an afterlife.

I just, I don't know. And I, I think for me, as, as a human, I just, for a while I'm like, yeah, I believe, but as an adult, I, I like to be true to myself. And, uh, you know, I always, I always try to put my, I'm one of those people, I wear my heart on my sleeves, so I always tell people. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't know if I believe I was baptized as a, as a Catholic I was, which is, you know, obviously as, as a Catholic, you're very Catholics.

Catholicism is very devout, right? There's a lot of rules. Um, I don't know, you know, and, and I always like to ask people who know, like, you know, is there, is there advice you can give to somebody like me who, who maybe doesn't know

Wilk Wilkerson: yeah. And, and I

Rob Valincius: I bought that book, by the way. It is on Audible. I bought it.

Wilk Wilkerson: Oh,

Rob Valincius: So I'll listen to it and I'll let you know what I think.

Wilk Wilkerson: Very nice. Please do. Um, uh, yeah, like I said, if, if anybody, if any of your listeners want to, uh, you know, look up things about me, I've had, uh, several hours worth of conversations with Dr. Francis Collins, the author of that book, and, and him and I have appeared.

And, and we, we continue to work together today on, uh, on, on some bigger projects that, that are, are really. quite, quite remarkable for a guy like me to end up having conversations like that with him. But, but I'll give you a couple stories real quick, Rob, 'cause I know we're getting, you know, close to the end of our time.

But you, you mentioned the word faith, right? And, and yes. Proving Christianity or proving the existence of God using science. You know, I, I don't, I think is is probably a bridge too far for far too many people. I don't know enough about it and I, I'm not gonna pretend to do it. I think it takes a lot more faith to say that there is no God than to say that there is.

And I'll tell you, uh, I can only say that, that by saying this, I've been in far too many situations over the course of my life where things were just too unreal. To believe that some higher power was not, or did not have a hand in what happened? In, in, in my particular situation, uh, I'll tell you a, a couple very quick stories.

Once I, I was in my late teens, early twenties, I can't remember the year at this point, but, but, uh, you know, it, it was in the, the, the early nineties. And, uh, I was at a, at a, I was in a trailer park at a, at a particular, uh, person's house. I'm sitting there in the trailer park in the summer sitting there, air conditioners going in the trailer, and I heard something.

I heard something, and I did not know what I heard, and I could not pinpoint what I heard. I could only follow what I thought I was hearing. And I walked outside and whatever it was got louder and I started following this noise that I thought I heard. Several trailers down in this trailer park. I found a man laying across the steps of his trailer, an elderly man, uh, who was dying of a massive heart attack. And I ran into his house, grabbed his phone. This, I, I didn't have a cell phone at the time. I, I ran into, grab into his trailer, grabbed his home phone, called nine one one, said, Hey, get here quick. This guy is whatever. He died, but he didn't die alone 'cause I was there with him. And, um, when they asked me, when the paramedics asked me, how did you know, how, how did you know that he was here?

How did you, I said, I don't know. I, I don't know. I, I've, I've got no idea. Uh, it would've, you know, I said I was in the trailer, you know, six trailers down, whatever it was, and, uh, and I was inside and they're like, there's, there's zero. I mean, this guy had a massive heart attack. There's no way he could have made a noise loud enough for you to hear him from where you were.

It's just not, it, it's not humanly possible. Um, but the man didn't die alone that day. He died with me. Okay. That's one story. The next story was I was remodeling years later. I was in an apartment, uh, in, in, down, in, in, uh, Mount Dora, Florida. I was helping buddies of mine, uh, remodel this apartment that was just, it was, it was a crazy old house.

And, and they, they bought this thing and we're turning it into like three apartments. And I'm trying to do some wiring in what was going to be the kitchen. And I had fed a wire up through the wall, and I'm trying to reach in the ceiling to find this wire, and I'm reaching around and I can't get ahold of this wire.

And it's driving me crazy. And, uh, and, and I'm getting mad. And they're getting mad. We're all hot, we're all sweaty, we're dirty, we're hungry. And I say, Jesus Christ, would you throw me a bone? You know, just that phrase, right? Jesus Christ, would you throw me a bone? And I'm like, oh, I got it. I grabbed what I thought was the wire, I pulled it out.

I had a chicken bone in my hand or, or, or some kind of bird bone in my hand. Literally, I mean this honest to God truth, weirdest thing. And the guys that were on, you know, I was on a ladder. They were on the ground. They're like, it freaked us all out, right? And then I reached back in, grabbed the wire, pulled it out, and we were done.

So. That's just two stories. I, I mean, I've had, I've, I, I will tell you that it's just, there have been way too many things in my life and, and there there was a very long period of my life where I, you know, I was so miserable that, that I would just lay down and pray at night. Hey, if, if you hate me this much, God just take me out of this world.

And he never did it. Um, but it's, it's there. You talk about the word faith and, and what faith is and how we develop the faith that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, and, and, and, you know, did what he did, what they say he did. And, and, uh, we don't all get there at the same time. But if we say yes, we get to the same place.

So I guess we can call that what it is.

Rob Valincius: Hey, look, I like it, man. And uh, I'll let you know when I get there. I'll let you know when I get there. Uh, yeah, I have my thoughts, you know, but, um, and I've, I've had some, I've had some interesting things happen in my life too. So we'll see. We'll see how long it takes me to get there. But, um, you know, look, I appreciate being able to have that conversation, right.

And us. Can, we can recognize that you are embracing your faith and I'm, and I'm, and I'm still in the infancy stage, and I think to end the podcast, that's a great way, right, that we've had, we had a conversation where you're, you're, you follow what you follow and I'm still getting there. And I think at the end of the day, if we had more conversations like this, it would help people.

Right. Um, tell me where, where can we find all of your content? Your podcast, we didn't even get to that. Right. The rate, the hate, uh, tell me where they can find your podcast and everything you're doing, and if there's anything coming up you want people to know. My followers.

Wilk Wilkerson: Yeah, so, so the D Rate, the Hate podcast is, is where you're gonna find most of my content, and you can find links to like my YouTube and, and other things there. Uh, so d rate the hate.com. Very easy to find. Uh, the word D rate is, is. Like debate, but it's D rate. So with a, with a an r, it means to turn something down.

So d rate the hate.com, uh, or just Google, Wil Wilkinson. If you Google Wil Wilkinson, there's, there's, uh, all kinds of, uh, of information out there. And then braver angels.org, I, that's, that's the, that's the big thing. I mean, ultimately, if you're going to derate the hate.com, I want you to get to braver angels.org.

It's America's largest grassroots, uh, cross partisan organization working towards bridging divides, but working to, to build back that civic, uh, civic engagement, uh, you know, build back the civic renewal that made this country, uh, what it, you know, the, the best pace on the planet. So, uh, derate the hate.com, braver angels.org, and, uh.

You know, join the movement, man. Come, uh, come aboard and, and be part of the solution because, uh, there's no reason that we all gotta hate each other. So let's make it happen.

Rob Valincius: agree more man. Couldn't agree more. Uh, my podcast is Drink Clock Pod on all socials, drink clock podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. You name it, it's there. I promise you, you can look it, it's there. Uh, and uh, look, man, it was, it was a absolute pleasure having you on, dude, and I feel like I could talk to you for, uh, three hours.

So, uh, thanks for hanging out. I

Wilk Wilkerson: Thank you very much, Rob. Take care of yourself. I appreciate you, man. Take care.

Rob Valincius: You too, man. 

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