Garbage In, Garbage Out: AI, Cloud, and Self-Advocacy with an AWS Leader

What does it actually take to explain AI and cloud strategy to a room full of executives who've been doing things the same way for 30 years? In this episode, I sit down with Shweta Keshavanarayana, a Customer Solutions Manager at Amazon Web Services, to talk about everything from growing up in Bangalore to architecting the 2012 London Olympics streaming platform at just 22 years old.

Shweta breaks down generative AI and cloud adoption in a way that anyone can understand (her go-to test: can you explain it to an 8-year-old?). We get into what businesses actually get wrong when moving to the cloud, why the phrase "garbage in, garbage out" should be everyone's AI mantra, and how better prompting can completely change what you get back from tools like ChatGPT and Claude.

We also have a real conversation about what it's like being the only woman in the room in big tech, why self-advocacy is a skill you have to build like a muscle, and how her "I Am Remarkable" workshops have helped hundreds of people find the confidence to speak up for themselves.

Shweta Keshavanarayana LinkedIn.

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Transcript

Intro Song

Rob Valincius: Well, normally I record on Thursday, but Happy Friday, you know, um, you know, I know a lot of people that are listening to this, which will be next week, most likely. It's probably gonna be released on a Thursday, so you're gonna go, Rob, what the hell are you talking about, man? It's, it's Thursday. Well, it's Friday for me people.

Okay. I'm happy I'm alive. Uh, I just had some dinner so the belly is full. And, uh, I have a great guest with me today. So normally I'm the one, uh, doing the introductions, but in honor of not destroying her last name, I'm gonna let my guest tell you who she is.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Hey Rob, thank you for having me on your podcast. Uh, this is Shweta Keshavanarayana. Um, I keep

telling my husband he needs to get my name tattooed if he really loves me, and that's, that's our conversation every time we pick up a fight because of the long name advantage that I have. So, yeah, thank you for having me. And yes, it's Friday and I'm excited. It's Friday, so, yeah.

Rob Valincius: Absolutely. So, um, tell, tell me and my listeners, so what do you, what do you do for a living, uh, right now, currently? I know you were traveling and you're all over the place this week, right?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, so this week has been a little bit hectic with travel and, uh, the house chores, which never seem to end. Uh, and work-wise, I work at Amazon Web Services. Um, I work in their Bay Area office and I support one-offs. Amazon's largest strategic, so that's what I do for my living.

Rob Valincius: Awesome, awesome. So we got a fun one then. 'cause there's a lot of stuff, um, that I feel like we can get into now before we get into some hot button topics. Cough, cough, ai, um, let's talk about you. Right? Um, part of my podcast is, uh, learning about who you are or who you grew up to be. To up to this point, right?

Because my listeners don't know you. I don't really know you, right? I, we just met and you don't know me. So talk to me about growing up. Um, you know, you could tell me where if you want or just what your growing up was like and, and what, what got you to this point. Um, and maybe tell me a little bit about, uh, I know I'm kind of throwing a couple things at you, but throughout this thing, what got you into technology?

Right? Because I feel like there's always a, a starting point for that, for us.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, born and brought up in, uh, Bangalore, India, the Silicon Valley of India. Uh, lived there for 24 years of my life before I decided to almost settle in the United States in the Bay Area. Uh, been living here since 2014, so a large part of my adult years. I have lived away from my home, which was my, which I think will still remain my forever favorite place.

So,

yeah. Growing. Yeah. So growing up, uh, born, uh, to two working parents. Uh, my mom and dad, uh, taught us, my brother and I from a very young age that it's a, India is a very patriarchal society. So they showed us, Hey, we both work hard to put food, food on the table. We both work hard to, uh, give you the best of the facilities, whether it's education or sports or other activities, which is cultural, uh, which is. Uh, which helps you make a well-rounded individual. So I always saw like how my dad and my mom were a team. Uh, both played different roles depending upon the day, depending upon the week, depending upon their job responsibilities. Uh, so I saw my dad and mom as equals growing up and how they supported each other, how they supported, uh, two kids and they didn't have the kind of support, uh, with, uh, afterschool care and things like that, how they relied on the community and how they relied on each other.

So that's what I learned growing up. What got me to tech is very interesting. So Asian parents are very competitive. So growing up I was either told like, you have a decision to make, especially after my. Um, high school, like you either get into engineering or you get into medicine. What is your choice? Yeah,

Rob Valincius: It's a, it's a hell. Some hell of a choices there. It paid good at least.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah. So it was either engineering or medicine. And my uncle is a doctor himself. So I sat next to him and I'm like, and his daughters didn't study medicine. Um, so I asked him like, Hey, what is your take on it? Uh, what is it? And, and he went through a lot of things like, Hey, with medicine you are constantly studying.

You are. You'll have a much bigger responsibility because it's the question of life. Uh, and like it's been 40 years and I'm still, I still do my two, three hours of study every single day. Like, are

you up for that kind of dedication or do you wanna see money in like four years? Uh, what do you want to do?

Like by, but that 17-year-old, 18-year-old me, like, obviously, they're like, Hey, give me money. Like let me, let me start working soon. Let me start earning soon. I had seen like what financial independence gives a woman's with my mom as an example. So I'm like, it's okay. There are so many people who are saving the lives.

I'll support the society in different ways, but let me take

a quick, a quicker path to make money. So yeah, that, that was, I mean, when I look back at it, I don't know like if I made the right decision or not, but. Um, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. Um, uh, in this stage of my life, I'm still learning. So when my uncle said, only doctors need to learn, uh, I would not agree with that statement.

Now we're all riding the AI wave together, so there is a lot of learning. Even today, like my uncle, he said, I've been studying even after 40 years of graduation. I would say uncle, even if it's after 15 years, 20 years of graduation, we are all still studying. We are all staying up to date with technology.

So, yeah, so that's how I, I got into tech. Mm-hmm.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. It's funny how, uh, medicine and tech are like that, right? I feel like they go hand in hand because, and I, I work in the insurance world, so, and I work specifically more into the Medicare side, which is very, you know, it's very political unfortunately with, with, uh, rules and regulations. So, you know, one, uh, one group gets in, there's four years of changes.

The other group comes in, they dismantle those changes, they add more. And I'm always learning. So I just feel like depending on your career path and where you go, you're just always, constantly learning Hundred percent right. My husband keeps that, that's always attracted me to technology, you know? That's why I always, my degree's in it, by the way, I don't have a, that's not what I do, but I've always been obsessed with technology.

But go ahead. Sorry about that.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: No, no. I mean, it's so true, right? My husband says, live like a student. Um, you have to. Otherwise, if you want to excel in whatever field that is with how things are changing so quickly, if you hit your comfort zone, you cannot grow. And for a lot of us who are ambitious, who wanna make a difference, wanna grow, like learning is the thing that keeps you grounded, it keeps you going.

So, uh, it is very important, irrespective of your field to be up to date to understand the current trends. You might not use everything, or you might not relate to everything, but at least you need to know what is going on.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, um. If you care at all right about what you do, you have to stay in the know. If you don't, you know, there's people that just ride that, that wave, that's just the steady wave. I mean, I've met people, they're assistant managers and that's all they ever wanna be. I don't wanna be a store manager.

I don't want that. I just wanna be an assistant manager, or I just wanna do this and that's it. Right? And that's cool, right? That's what the beauty of being a human, you can make those decisions. Now let me ask you this, and I know this is a hypothetical. Um, you know, I'm not, you know, I only know about the tropes that, uh, we get in media about Indian foreign families, right?

Um, what if you decided you didn't wanna be an engineer, or you didn't wanna be a doctor? How would've, uh, your parents react? Now you said your parents were kinda like partners, so it sounded like your parents kind of were against a little bit against the norm anyway. Would they have accepted that?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Uh, I mean, if I had fought hard, I would have, uh, accept they would have accepted it. Uh, they are

very, uh, they were very forward looking and unorthodox, uh, that you would expect a lot of Asians to be. Um, I, I really wanted to become a lawyer. Uh, but I didn't have anybody in the family or in our friend circle who could guide me. So I think my parents felt like with engineering or medicine, like they had people that they can rely on who I can ask for mentorship and things like that. And they're like, that would be a safe space. But had I fought hard enough, like I didn't know I was too

young and I didn't know, like things look fancy.

Like I would see a court room and I'm like, I'm going to fight this. And, and that was my teenager in me talking. But looking back, like I, they would have definitely supported me and they have been extremely supportive of every decision of my life. Uh, and they would have supported me. Yeah.

Rob Valincius: I think that's important. You know, um, all too often I feel like you see the parents where they force their kids to do something. There's just always so much, you know, backlash. Sometimes it turns into animosity and hate and it, it can really affect the family dynamic. So it's, it's good that you had a, a healthy family dynamic.

I am, you know, my parents were the same way. It's like, you know, do what you wanna do. We, we were poor. So, uh, you know, myself, everything I've done for myself, everything I've done and, you know, I, I had guidance from my parents, but not money. So I've, I've, uh, had to strap, strap it on my back for, for many years.

But, uh, I'm, Hey, look, I'm, I'm happy with what I've accomplished, what I continue to accomplish. So, um, let's talk a little bit about, uh, well, for one. I think you're probably happy at this point. You didn't become a lawyer because Claude code, uh, as of yesterday with some of their plugins, who, uh, I would be afraid if I was a junior lawyer, to be honest with you.

Uh, did you see that?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, I mean, like I said, uh, you have to stay up to date and I'm not caught. I was traveling this week. I'm not caught up on the latest, but I have, I mean, we use clot code, I use clot code, like

my son interacts with AI assistance to do a lot of things. And, uh, he's an 8-year-old and he knows what clot code is.

So, I mean, that is the power of technology. But yeah, like I, I always still believe the human in the loop component, irrespective of how much advancements we make in ai. Um, there are, there are some things I think there will still be a human judgment needed before the final call, but like you said, a lot of automation is going to happen, uh, a lot so that we can do what we, uh, can really make an impact on and, and focus a lot of automation, admin stuff and, and do all the boring work where the AI is going to improve the productivity.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. Hey look, I mean, I, today I was, so today I got paid, but it's also bill day, uh, the dreaded bill day. So, uh, I've been using the same Excel spreadsheet for 10, 15 years, and I just updated, changed the year and I said, you know what, I'm gonna talk to Claude Coat. So I threw my bill, and I don't, it's just like balances and stuff.

So I'm like, if someone wants to, to act that, that's fine. There's no, like, actual, I don't even have my name on it, right? So they don't, they don't even know it's me. But I, I threw that in there. I'm like, Hey, listen. I need you to let, let's, let's, let's make this a little bit better. I was like, I don't know, whatever.

I'm the color coding, I'm doing stuff. It's not good. Like, alright, here's our suggestions. You know, gave me a couple suggestions. You want us, you want, you want me to work on this, work on this, do this, do this. And within like two minutes it had come up with this beautiful bill spreadsheet, it's got multiple tabs, has a dashboard.

I'm like, this is awesome. And it, that's, that's the part of, of AI that for me is just so cool because you could take something you've been doing for many years and it, yeah, it works just a little janky. And AI can have just this different spin to it and just make it like, I can't wait to pay my bills.

Which is weird, right? I never said that in my life, but I wanna see how it works.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: yeah, yeah. I mean, it gave you so much time off your plate, right? Like otherwise you would include that effort as well, along with bleeding money from your pocket.

So, so Yeah. Yeah.

there is some happy medium there.

Rob Valincius: So, um, for those listeners that do not live in the tech world, tell me a little bit about, um, you know, you're a customer solutions manager at AWS, what is your day to day like? What, what does your function look like in that, in that role, I.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, so customer solutions managers, we are a blend of, we understand technology, we understand business, right? So what we ba do day in, day out is how to help. Our customers migrate to cloud and modernize in cloud. And now with ai, how do we build that strategy around AI so that they can help their end users, their customers better?

So that's what my, uh, job defines where I act as a force multiplier amongst different internal teams, and we help customer execute on their strategic priorities. So, for example, I'm not gonna take names, so let's see. Uh, it's, it's a. Big enterprise, and they are, they have 10 different products. And how will that fit in an, in an, uh, in another enterprise's environment, right?

So, uh,

what what I help them do is I'll understand what are the end user's problems they're trying to solve. They wanna simplify, they want to have like a single user interface. They want, uh, the assistant to give everything their, um, customer needs versus having to go through the whole loop of getting on call with the customer representative, uh, fading lines and all that stuff.

So what I'm helping, like for example, one of the use cases that I worked on is to build that unified, uh, single pane of glass. So here it's an enterprise buying this enterprise's, uh, services. All they need to do is they go to the chat assistant and they'll. It's all natural language. They don't have to, uh, learn anything specific and say, Hey, I bought this product, gimme the relevant documents to configure it in my ecosystem. The chat assistant is going to ask you like, Hey, explain a little bit about your infrastructure, right? Because it wants to

learn a little more before that throws out an answer. Then it says like, the chat assistant says, okay, these are the documents that can use as a reference, and, uh, this is how you could potentially architect.

So now that assistant is giving me an architectural diagram as well. So how I can fit in AWS's, uh, like my customer services with the solution built on AWS and how it would fit in my other, their customer's ecosystem. So. It is all these things that I do, I understand from my customer's point of view, their business point of view, their customer's point of view, and I try to plug in those pieces so that I bring the bigger picture together, and then I work

with the team to peel the layers of onion.

And then each layer builds, um, um, an offering. So that's what I do. Uh, it's, it's a lot of, uh, making it understand to a very, like a 5-year-old or an 8-year-old, like how I explain it internally or how I advocate for my customer internally. I, I start with basics and I explain to them, Hey, this is what this customer is looking to do and this is what I think AWS's products can help, and these are the gaps.

Can you help me put these in your roadmap? Like, like all these things I do to make them successful?

Rob Valincius: That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, you're kind of like the liaison, right? So, um, I do that. So I wear many hats where, where I work, but I'm also in our, I'm, I'm a marketing and development coordinator, but I, I work in a little bit of everything. So with our marketing, uh, with our, uh, graphics designers, we have, uh, three graphics designers and we have, um, kinda like an SEO guy and, uh, I have to talk with them and they cr they kind of create the product that our, our users want, but our users.

Since I work in the Medicare market, a lot of them are 50, 60, 70 year olds who have no clue what they want or how to operate it. So I, I can't have them talk to the graphic designers. 'cause the graphic designers don't know our business. They do, but they don't know the graphic designers business. So I, I always kind of, it's, uh, it's interesting when you're in the middle, right?

Because, uh, you gotta, the way you talk to both parties is just so vastly different.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah. And you have to meet where that person is, right? Like if my, I'm talking to a business person, I cannot throw in a bunch of technical words, uh, and lose that person. But at the same time, if I'm talking to my technical team, I can't just focus on the business impact. I have to talk, like, translate the business requirements into technical requirements and then

talk.

So Yeah.

I, I mean, another way I leverage AI is if I don't understand something, I'll say, Hey, uh, explain this using the concept of Legos, or Explain this as you

are explaining it to like an 8-year-old. Like, I always keep my son as my Guinea pig when I am trying to understand, learn something. And that has been a game changer.

Rob Valincius: yeah. And, and it's all about context with AI too. Um, I think that it's, it is really important and at some point, um, there'll be an inflection point where, you know, you're just gonna have a lot of people who are really, really good at talking to ai. And AI is just getting light. I mean, look at video coordination with AI 20 22, 20 23 to now it is.

Uh, the, the Will Smith video is one that I always bring up. You, him eating the spaghetti, you know, it just looks crazy. It's funny, but then now it's literally, you can't even tell the difference if it's Will Smith or not, which is scary. It's a little Yeah, yeah, I,

um, so here's, here's I guess my question for you.

So, uh, look, you are, you're a woman, right? Um, I've had plenty of women on the show that have had their, their struggles just because they're a woman. Um, you know, on top of it, you're foreign, right? You're in us. Talk a little bit about the stru. There's gotta be a lot of struggle for you. Um, was it more in the beginning?

Is it a little easier now? I mean, it's. Um, I couldn't have, look, I'm a white guy, so that kind of fit the bill for just kind of moving along without much issues. Uh, although obviously it's, it's not been great probably as of the past, uh, couple years. But I will say this, nowhere near what I'm sure you have to experience out in the world today.

I,

Shweta Keshavanarayana: I mean, it's 2026, but there are still a lot of meetings, a lot of gatherings in tech where I am one of one, or at least one of the few women, uh, in

a bunch in a room full of men, right? Uh, it's, it's been like that. Uh, sometimes I feel happy if I see, uh, more colors in the room, uh, than just blacks and grays and whites.

So, uh, but sometimes it is, it is what it is that is the reality. And a few things

have accepted, right? Like, I, I'm going to remain a minority, but I am not going to let that intimidate me. So what can I do? Um, it used to intimidate me starting out, uh, when I was 22. I started working, uh, right after my under graduation.

Um, I was the primary architect for London Olympics, so I used to do.

Yeah, so 2012, uh, when London Olympics was one of the first largest streaming emmens, uh, and it had a mobile, uh, presence and, uh, everybody saw viewed Olympic Games differently. So I was the primary architect for that, and I went to their technical operation center to support the launch of the game, right?

So I was the only woman on the floor. Um, and what it has taught me is. How can I prepare myself? I didn't want anybody to just dismiss me because of me being a woman. So I always had that additional responsibility to show up, well, to show up, right, so that I don't become an example for them to distrust others who will come after me.

So yeah, I have been blessed with a network of my supporters. Uh, they, these are women who are tenured, who have had the experience. These are my amazing male colleagues who gave me that opportunity, showed what allyship truly is, um, made way for me to shine while staying in the background. So I have been very fortunate and lucky, uh, I would say, right, like there have been instances as well where I have not been given credit for my work, but. Initially I would let it slide, but after that I started advocating for myself. I would confront senior members in the organization irrespective of which org I worked for. If I didn't get the credit that I deserved, I went and confronted, even if it was a vice president, I said, thank you for acknowledging the work, but do you know how much I put in there?

And your email congratulated everybody else except me. Why was

that? And

they have been appreciative because you don't, they don't get to hear, uh, those things. And I'm like, and my director, he actually told me that, Hey, thank you for confronting me many years ago. Even now when I send these appreciation or congratulatory emails, I make sure I take, I do the second proofreading before I send it because of you confronting me.

Right? So yeah, preparation, having mentors, having sponsors, and my mentors are like. They have seen different phases of my life. I have a mentor who I go to even today, and she has seen me since my earlier professional career days. Um, there are mentors at work and I have various different mentors depending upon the needs or the demands or my aspirations as they evolve every year. And it's so important to have that network. It's so important to have that confidence as well. Uh, and for that, you'd have to be, you have to learn. You need to put in that effort to learn to, that's when people respect you. That's when people listen you, that's when people trust you, and then it becomes much easier.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, listen, I mean, my, uh, one of my owners, uh, she's like my second mom. Um, you know, she has been in the insurance world since, you know, the eighties and nineties, and she was a woman in a very male dominated space. And, uh, you know, she would tell us stories about, you know, she, uh, her boss, the owner of the company would, uh, she was very good at sales.

So her and my current boss, they were actually both, uh, they, they both worked at the same company together. And he was young. He was, you know, like right outta college. And, uh, they were on the same team and they would have these sales goals and they'd, they'd crush him. And then. Their boss would raise their goals and then they'd hit those goals and crush 'em, and he'd raise 'em again.

And he constantly was doing that. And uh, you know, she always made sure to kind of show people like, I don't care what you think about me, and I'm a woman and all that, I'm gonna crush everything. Uh, and she's got quite a backbone now from it. So, uh, she's definitely one of those people, man. It's, it's there like when she walks in, there's authority and, uh, I would not f with my boss, that's for sure, but she's also like my second mom.

So I'll tell her if I get, you know, if I get a boo boo, I go and tell her about it, you Yeah. Yeah. I

Shweta Keshavanarayana: keep telling, like a lot of times I've heard people say, Hey, be a fly on the wall. I'm like, I cannot be a fly on the wall. I'm a firecracker. So if I'm gonna be present in a meeting, you are gonna hear me. Uh, you cannot shut me up and say, just observe. If I have to observe, I will not occupy the space in the room, but sometimes I have to observe.

I understand. But if that is the generic attitude you have because of your recent biases or pre assumptions, it's not gonna work with me, buddy. So I, I set those

expectations. And I think, um, obviously that's a personality trait, right? Not everybody is cool with, cool with being, uh, not being a fly on a wall, right? I, I'm one of those people. I like to at least display my opinion. So if it's an open forum, I'm not gonna be one of the people because at the end of the day, if you don't talk about your opinion, whether it's right or wrong, I mean opinion's an opinion, right?

Rob Valincius: It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. Um, you could have an, a direct impact on functionality of whatever you're discussing, whether that's in business or life or whatever. And if you just sit there and, and are a fly on the wall, you might allow something to happen or something might happen that it had you put an input, it could have stopped irreparable damage.

and that's just how I think, you know, I, I think that, uh, you gotta have some backbone in, in business, you know, whether that's in the, in the boardroom or even if it's going to your boss after the fact to say, Hey, look, you know, and, uh, have a good valid argument. Not just that, that sucks, you know, which, uh, I think a lot of people have too often without any actual, as evidence of why it would suck.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, absolutely. So one of, I mean, Amazon has built on leadership principles and one of our leadership principle is disagree and commit, right? Uh, so many times, like they encourage these in all the times, they encourage these healthy discussions. They don't want e AERs all the time. So if you disagree with something. Uh, bring your points and sometimes you will understand through that discussion why a certain decision was made. Though you disagreed, you committed because you saw the larger picture. So that's what the whole principle, uh, means and that is very encouraged and that is very true. Like my husband and I, we disagree on hundred things when we are running the family and what is the ultimate goal?

We have to be safe, we have to be happy, and we wanna be in love. So if as long as those, uh, purposes are served, like it's okay to have disagreements and you see the larger vision that you want to commit to and you commit to that.

Rob Valincius: Well, I think it's healthy for a relationship, especially. You got everything. Can't always be hunky dory. You gotta have a little bit of, 'cause if you don't, then it's always one person. It's always one sided. And then, you know, it is with me, me and the wife. You've been together for 16 years now at this point.

So, um, we both display, uh, when we're. We don't like that, what is going on? And then we either yell at each other a little bit or talk about it, but at the end of the day, we come up with a compromise. And that's why we've outlasted like a million marriages that we've seen because we compromise all the time for each other, not just one person.

It's, it's not one sided. We compromise together, we make it work. And that's just, I think more relationships would probably last longer if they compromised a little bit more. But some people are just a little stubborn. Right. You know, you don't always have to be Right. It's okay to be wrong, you know? Um, now, you know, look, you're, you're dealing with large businesses, so there's gotta be, I'm sure you've dealt with a little bias, not just, obviously we're not talking about, you know, in Amazon, so you're probably talking to CEOs, CFOs, COOs, and um, talk to me a little bit about what that looks like.

What, what are some of, um. You don't have to talk about your adversity really, but for me, I wanna know what are some common misconceptions that some of these businesses have about kind of moving to the future, right? You're, because you're painting that picture like, Hey, you have a filing cabinet or a room full of filing cabinets that have all this unnecessary stuff.

Let's move you to the cloud. You can access it on your phone, your laptop in Japan, wherever you want to go. Like, what does that look like? 'cause I, I know it's gotta be difficult, especially if someone's not a, a tech, uh, oriented person.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah. So technology, uh, um, excites people, right? Like they see the power, like how you explain, like you don't have to maintain your physical servers. You can keep these on the cloud, you can access things on various devices you can access from irrespective of where you are in the world. Like all these things excite people.

But there is a big cultural change that also is needed for an organization to move to cloud or for an organization to adopt ai, right? Uh, there is a lot of, uh, concerns around what is going to happen to my job? Uh, how am I going to upskill my people? Uh, how am I going to control, uh, security? How am I gonna put guardrails?

What am I going to do about compliance? So those are the things that, um. We have to do a good job in terms of educating and building awareness and making them understand just because in your, you are in cloud, it doesn't mean your data is not secure in cloud, these are the things that you can do to secure data in cloud. These are the things that you, you can do to put guardrails around the AI systems that you are building in. So for me, the biggest thing is every like. People love, uh, hearing new things, but there is always resistance to change. And how do you hit on those points that will help them see the other side?

Because there is always apprehension. Your, by default, you're doing your job in a similar way for 20 years, for 30 years. Now I'm telling you, there is a different way to do the job. And unless you try out that different way to the do the job, you won't understand of how better or why I am saying, uh, that thing.

So for, it's more of like, I would say it's a mental shift. It's a mental model shift, and. The biggest advice that I would give is for someone who is trying to convince someone on their cloud strategy or AI strategy, is to meet the people where they are and not dismiss their concerns. Don't dismiss their apprehensions, like take it a step back and see how you can convince them to see the other side, and then the opportunities open up.

A non-tech person does understand technology. If you make, make them understand, like I said, right? Explain this to me like you would do to a 5-year-old. Like, use the same

analogy. Keep it simple. Keep it to the point. Make them understand, and you can always go deep, but don't make the first thing so complicated.

They're like, oh, this chain scares me. Like you don't want that reaction.

Rob Valincius: yeah. No, not at all. And so it's, it's almost like you're, all these things wrapped up into one and then on top of it, you're like a psychologist because you gotta find a way to, to freud it into people's heads and make them get it while, uh, 'cause. They're spending money too. Yeah, yeah, it's not just a, it's not just a business risk in terms of their actual, you know, what they're doing operationally.

It's also cost risk. Um, so, you know, they gotta dip that toe. Um, I think once people actually do it though, I mean, on, once they see the end result, they're like, I mean, how many thank you cards do you get? You get a lot of Christmas cards, you know?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: yeah. I, I, keep them in my keep smiling folder. Uh, no thank you cards. But, uh, it's more on the lines of appreciation, right.

Um, and then, yeah, those are my, uh, go-to resources when I'm having a tough day. So I just look at them and I'm so rejuvenated to crush the day ahead.

Rob Valincius: I gotta do that. I gotta create something like that. 'cause I have the same thing. I'd li you know, uh, there's certain days where you come in and you're just, the day doesn't start out well. And, and I think sometimes those things can definitely help. Um, talk to a little bit, can you explain to, can you, can you break it down to my.

People, my listeners, um, like they're an 8-year-old, what is generative AI? And, um, you know, have you seen that, um, kind of creeping in and making a big impact on, on uh, AWS and just the, the, um, industry as a whole?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: generative ai, if I have to explain to you, like, just think about how you are learning, right? Uh, everybody I think has gotten used to internet and has gotten used to. Doing things online versus going to a library, researching a hundred books like you have that with internet where the information is at your finger fingertips.

So with generative ai, it is the AI that is generated. So there is that responsibility, right? It it. It is like I tell people like it's garbage and garbage out. So if you don't ask the right questions, you won't get the right answers because it's a generated response. So you have to be, you have to tune your mind on how you want to start utilizing something. Uh, my son, uh, both working parents, uh, so many times, he wants us to have a conversation and we give him one line responses, which he is not too happy about. Uh, we have taught him how to use the voice assistants, the AI assistants to help him understand. How things work and, and that's what it is. Like, I would say, um, to the readers, like, start small, start with your usual things that you do day in, day out.

Like my son wanted to understand how traffic signals work and at what frequency the lights change and how can he make sure we leave from home and hit to his, uh, sports camp and we don't hit even one red light. Like that's what he wants to know. So I'm like, buddy, let's

Rob Valincius: That's Yeah, let's do this. And, and for me, like I am more a person who can relate to things where I see that impact in my daily life, and that's what makes me adapt to something new, much easily versus something it's completely imaginary, right?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Like I, it's, it's hard for someone to sell me that versus something here, like my parents, my dad is 75, my mom is almost 70. And, and, and I tell them the same thing. They are big users of WhatsApp and there are so many news and so many things that they go, that goes in and they keep asking me and I'm like, you can do this, right?

Like, just go to your browser. It's again on your mobile phone. Like you see this news on WhatsApp, like, go ahead and, and verify it. Like, same with my customers. I, I do the same thing like generative AI is. What we create, what, uh, is going to help us. But we have that responsibility to give the right thing so that it gives us what we are expecting it to do, whether it is productivity improvements, whether it is simplifying a lot of stuff, whether it is not knowing how to write code, but still building applications. So how do we do that safely? How do we do that securely? How do we do that responsibly? So that, those are the things I bring in when I'm convincing my customers, talking to their customers on their cloud strategy, AI strategy, or educating my parents trust, but verify. So that's that. That's what it is.

Rob Valincius: I like, I like that, that saying it's trash in, trash out. Right? If you're gonna, because it's all about the Yeah. Yeah. Um, and something, um, that I have tried to be, give, you know, better with is. Making my prompts not all about just telling it what I want. Having the AI tell me what it thinks based on what I gave it, I should want.

Right? Um, and that's kind of the, you know, learning how to be, you know, prompt, inject, uh, relevant things that the ai, once it knows you, especially something like cloud, uh, cloud code was just, uh, brought in memory. So it remembers everything that you talk to it across all platforms, whether that's chat cowork code, it's gonna remember you.

So as you're feeding it, this, this information, it, you know, you saying to it, Hey, like I did today. I was like, look, I don't know what I want, but here's my bill sheet. What do you think I can do to improve this? Instead of saying, I want you to improve it, it's just gonna make, it could make meaningless changes.

Right. Ask it what you think it should. Um, you know. Ah, what's the best way to put that? Ask it what you think it should, and I think you'd be surprised what you're gonna get. Um, you know, I, I teach people, I try to teach insurance agents about AI at its basics. It's, it's a little difficult. So I always tell people, you're not going to get a hundred percent of what you want ever.

At least not right now. AI can't read your mind, but you can get it 50, 60, 70% if you're really, really good, 80%. But I always tell people, I say 50% baseline of what you're looking for. And from there you can make it yours or you can make it what you want, or you can continue to have that conversation and.

That inflection point to, to be better. But it, it is tough, man, because I think people, you hear, they hear ai, they get intimidated. Um, you know, and it doesn't help with, with, you know, all the headlines and everything that's coming out now and all, all the other things that happens. Uh, but what do you, what are your thoughts on that in terms of like, you know, having that conversation, but just having it a little bit differently?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, so I think fundamentally like people need to understand what is generative ai, right? It creates

new content. It could be text, it could be images, it could be voice notes, it could be any of those things, or a combination of. All those things. And what, what am I envisioning? Like, like you said, AI cannot read your mind yet, so you have to be careful about the instructions and the context you give it.

And yet, yeah. Right. So yeah, like I, I have seen like how I have evolved in my prompting as well, like two years ago when chat GPT, uh, came on like. Was made familiar to all of us. My prompts would be like, help me write this email better, or help me

write this message better. And now, like I, I say, Hey, uh, I am a, I'm an executive and this is my title.

Who is reading this message? How should I word this so that the executive catches, it catches the executive's attention in five to 10 seconds of them receiving it. And that's how my output is better, because that is the context I'm feeding in versus saying, just make this better or make this crisp, make this succinct, give a little bit of more context, and then it changes the whole, uh, thing.

Rob Valincius: Yeah. No, I, I agree. And it, it makes it better. It really does. Um, what are your thoughts? You know, obviously over the past 2, 3, 4 weeks about, uh, you know, I think this is gonna be the year of genic. Ai. Um, you know, I, I don't know if, I don't know if you dabble on the side of playing with tech, but I did actually, uh, do an open claw bot.

Um, I had an old Surface Pro that I had wiped, it fully cleaned, so there was none of my personal information on it. And, uh, I installed open claw, which was a bit of a pain in the ass. 'cause there was, uh, you know, you're all going through terminal and PowerShell. So, you know, I'm run, running through and then it doesn't install because there's an issue.

And I have to go in and I have to figure out what's going. I'm a I'm, I'm a person where I need to fix things. It's, I've always been that way. So if I can't figure it out, it's gonna bother. I'll, I'll, I'll have dreams about it. I have to fix it. Um, so I, I couldn't get it to work the first night, second night, get through, finally figure it out, get it to work.

Um, and then of course they have an update and it breaks. But then I fixed that. But connect it to, uh, it was just this really cool moment of. Uh, and I, I have it, uh, oh. I used oi authorization with chat, GBT, so I didn't use any API keys. So, um, you know, I connected to chat GBT, and it comes, it comes to life and I'm, I use, uh, discord, um, because I already used Discord, uh, with other things.

So I, I say, Hey, and it goes, Hey, how are you? And I'm like, I just created my own AI agent. Like, I don't know if I should feel like a, like a God right now. You know? I created a digital being, I don't know, I didn't feel like that, but it was just a really cool moment. And I'm sitting there just talking to it and, and you know, the wife's like, who the hell are you talking to?

I was like, oh, my AI agent. She's like, I'm not even gonna ask. Um, but have you, have you got a chance to mess around with any of that stuff Not much. Not much. it kind of creeping in?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah. So I've been like, my husband and I have been, uh, toying around with this, uh. As two working parents. We wanna create agents, they create future agents so that the whole, uh, management of running a household with two people traveling all the time, uh, still trying to keep their, uh, child alive and healthy. Like, I'm

like, we need to automate this. We need to automate that. I need this reminder. I need that reminder that we, we can project. We have not got time for it. But eventually I would like to build something that every morning it gives me, like I have. Disconnected systems, right? Like I use my work stuff and I ask my, uh, chat agent every morning, Hey, what are these top five meetings of the day? Who is the persona that I'm talking to? Uh, have I made prep notes or should I have to wake up in the morning to do those prep notes? I do all these things, but my work life and my per uh, per personal life, they have not been integrated, uh, yet. And that's what I'll be playing with, uh, agents around. Like, I want this integration.

I want that single pane of glass at my, I'm building for my customers, for my own self to function

both personally and professionally, and have everything in front of me so that I'm set for the day. So that's, that's something that I'll be working on.

Rob Valincius: Yeah, listen, if you're, if you're listening to this, I think over the next six, six months, that's all you're gonna be hearing because it's, and it's exploded, like open claw, uh, which I, what was it originally called? Claude. Claude. Claude. C-L-A-W-D bot, I think is what it was. And then Claude was like, no, we're gonna sue you for using that.

Um, but it's, it's open claw now. And, uh, it's just, uh, you know, at the end of the day. An genic AI is just an assistant for you, a virtual assistant that puts Siri and all them to shape. It'll actually legitimately do things for you. Um, you know, I'm sitting here talking to it and, uh, the first thing it says is, Hey, we should put together a mission control board.

I'll, I'll create it for you. And it, it drafted up a whole mission control board. And I'm talking to it about, you know, you know, I fed it, information about who I am, my job, my family, and I'm like, this is what. My goals are, and, you know, all right, to coincide with your goals, this is what we should do. I'm gonna create the mission control board on the mission control board.

Um, you know, I'll put stuff for your podcast. Uh, when you book guests, I'll have a whole workflow for that. Um, I'll even, and I said to 'em, all right, we're gonna have to have some subagents at some point. Like, all right, I'm gonna create, I was like, I'm the CEO. And, uh, I was like, you know, you're the chief of staff, so it's got, it's got those things built in.

Like it's, and uh, I told it I wanna start doing, create a trading bot to bring in money and do all this other, and it was wild to me all of the things it was able to do, and we're such in the infancy stage that I can't imagine once, once we start to get AI driven robotics in our houses, how much free time people are gonna have.

Could you imagine that? Like not having, I don't know, uh, do you watch tv?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah. Yeah, I do.

Rob Valincius: Um. What was, hold on, I'm gonna tell you in one second. Um, there was a show, um, did you ever watch the show? Humans?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: No.

Rob Valincius: Alright, you're a tech person. Uh, I don't know if it's, it's probably not, i's not very kid family oriented. It's not like it's a bad show or anything, but, uh, it's more of a dark, uh, side of AI robots.

Um, and you should, if you're into stuff like that, it was, it, it was can it was 2015 to 2018, by the way. So this, this was a while ago. Um, but it, it has a whole thing about, uh, robots and the, the, the robots themselves. What happens is, is their code, uh, one of the creators injects a code that makes them sentient.

So the robots, but they have sentient code. So then there's this whole thing throughout the show. Are they a robot? Are they. A living thing, even though they're a robot and it goes through all this stuff. And obviously in 2015 to 2018, we're not thinking about that stuff. Like AI wasn't even around, but now you're like, oh, holy shit.

Are we gonna have to have this conversation within the next five to 10 years? Because, um, you know, one of them, uh, killed somebody and they were put on trial and, you know, people were fighting like, should they be on trial? 'cause are they, are they a thing? Uh, do they even deserve those rights? And, uh, it's, it's a compelling show.

And if you're in a tech, I, I, I think you should watch it because, and, you know, it's a little, I I say that it's not necessarily good for kids. 'cause, uh, and I, I'll, I'll, uh, I'll go below the belt here a little bit, but, uh, the show starts with the husband. Uh, they get, they get a robot and the husband decides to sleep with the robot.

And then there's a whole thing about is that cheating? it's a robot and that's how the show starts. And you're like, okay, if that's how the show's gonna start. And, and the wife had every right to, to like, you know, uh, punch the husband in the face. But, uh, it was just, it, it throws a lot of these tropes in that you where we would think about now, but 10 years ago you're like, ah, that's never gonna happen, or are we gonna see that in our lifetime?

Um, and I just, uh, I'm very interested in seeing how some of these things pan out, but the genic stuff is so cool.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: It is so cool. Like, I wanna give these agents enough permissions to be helpful than harmful. Like, that is the constant battle. Like, yeah, I want you to take actions on some things, but to not all, like, there are a few things. I want you to still run it by me and then build that flow so that once I respond, uh, that's when you go ahead and, and, and take that action.

Like those are the things that I constantly fight, uh, on. So,

Rob Valincius: Well, it's crazy, right? Because I think a lot of people don't realize, so if you're listening to this and, and you've heard about open Claw and mm-hmm. and stuff, you have to be careful because what these people are doing is the agents, they can, you know, scrape the internet and these people are building websites or in their website code, they're not putting a virus, right?

A a traditional thing that we are used to. They're actually putting a prompt injection. And when your bot goes on these sites, it'll prompt inject them and then your bot will give them whatever information that they want, which includes your API secret keys. If you have them there on your computer, it, they'll basically be able to get into your computer.

So, one, definitely put this on something that doesn't have your personal info, but you, you, it's not a traditional virus that we have to worry about, which is kind of wild.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah.

Rob Valincius: So. DEI. Right. Um, you know, obviously in the media today, there's a lot of stuff going on, uh, but I know that you're deeply involved in DEI work, so, you know, why is that so personally important to you?

And, um, you know, it's a, it's a continued fight for you out there, right? Just making sure that, um, you know, obviously everyone's treated fairly.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, so it's a lot of things. It's uh, like a lot of cultural upbringing, the kind of societal pressure and societal norms and the gender modesty rules, right? Like all these things impact you growing up. They have an impact on your confidence. And confidence is the key for you to have a successful life. Uh, whether you wanna show up as someone who people will listen to, um, either at home or at work. You need to be confident. And how do you break these gender modesty norms? Like there is a lot of damage done already, like growing up. Telling, like, Hey, as a woman, your role is to take care of your house. Your role is nurturing.

Like focus on that career can come afterwards, right? Like those are the things that you hear growing up. And luckily, like I said, both my parents were working. I was not used to it. But I've seen like even today, the kind of sacrifices women, um, make, uh, for their family. Uh, a lot of them take a break, right? To support, uh, their kids and everything. And so many times we forget ourselves. Like just today I was telling one of the people that. Fitness and health is very important. So

always take care of that. Like you remember the airline instructions, right? In the e event of an incident, save yourself. Put that oxygen mask to yourself first before you help others.

And we are the oxygen for the family. So it, it starts there. It started with my trainer telling me when I started working out, he is likea. I don't want you to give those, gimme those reasons you are important. You are going to carve out that one hour. You are going to show up for yourself. So for me, like as. As long as women start thinking about like themselves, they start advocating for themselves. They start, uh, promoting themselves. A lot of, um, efforts on the whole diversity, inclusion, equity becomes a reality. Otherwise, these will just remem, uh, remain as terms and we will still be talking about it 50 years from now without much changes in the society. So for me, that is what is the inspiring factor. I took this workshop called as I Am Remarkable. Two years ago, and this is a 90 minute workshop, which I think everyone in respect of your gender or race should attend at least once in your life. And those 90 minutes give you a different shift for the whole perspective.

It talks about why self-promotion is important, why advocating for oneself is important. It says like, Hey, hard work is the foundation of success, but if you want those opportunities that you. Think you deserve, you need to advocate and you need to scream loud and proud on why you deserve it. So I'm a facilitator.

I have helped more than 700, 800 attendees through my workshops and help them build this. I am remarkable muscle. It's, it's not easy, uh, but it is important and it's, it's a mental shift. It's a mindset shift. And people have seen so much difference in both professional, uh, life and in personal lives too.

And they have said, Hey, I attended your workshop and six months after I attended your workshop, I was able to advocate for my promotion. I was able to advocate for a job role that I would've doubted myself before attending this workshop. So these keep me going. And

for me, like That's what it is. Yes, I don't have a daughter, uh, but as a woman, I carry that responsibility.

And it could be somebody's daughter who is going to face similar situations like I have. I, I'm going through and for them, like I'm paving the way and giving it back. So I'm extremely passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Rob Valincius: I love it. I love it. I think that is, um, something, you know, I think more people need to take into account and I, I do agree with you on working on yourself. Um, you know, I work with a lot of seniors and, uh, I've seen a lot of people, uh, go downhill quick, um, when they're not, I think, um. You know, people always, you always think to yourself, oh, well, there's always tomorrow, right?

And there's always tomorrow. And then before you know it, you're 65 and, and then you're, you're, when you say that to yourself, you're also kind of second guessing. I'm hoping there's tomorrow, right? Uh, but all too often what happens with these seniors is they don't exercise. They stay inside. They have no social structure and they don't exercise their brain either.

Um, and you see a massive decline in cognitive function as well as physical functions when you are not exercising them. So it's important whether it's go outside and, and in the sun and go for a, a walk. It doesn't have to be a mile. It could be, you know, a quarter mile, whatever. Just go outside, get some sun, uh.

Call your family or make new friends. I mean, and you know, we're, we're human, right? It, you don't have to make friends in your twenties and then have them the rest of your life. You might make friends when you're in your sixties too. So, um, I'm a huge advocate for exercising both physically and mentally because it's the only way, from a longevity standpoint, you're gonna live a, a decently long lifespan.

Um, if you don't, it drastically lowers it. And, um, you know, it's just a shame to, uh, one of my fears is to get dementia, man. I don't, I don't wanna get it. I know. I don't necessarily have a choice and I grew up in an era, um, and I'm sure you did too, where I'm sure we ate and, and drank things that we were told is totally fine and I'm sure it wasn't.

So, um, just one of these, you know, uh, hopefully I don't get it, but, uh, you know, unfortunately you can't control that. But I like what you're doing there. I think that's, um, it's a valiant effort and, uh, you know, keep fighting the good fight. 'cause it's, I'm sure it's not gonna end anytime soon. I'm sure it's, it's gotten better.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: It depends, like I said, like there are,

Rob Valincius: To a certain degree. Maybe

Shweta Keshavanarayana: yeah. Yeah. I, I think I, I, my director and I were having a conversation. We were at a conference and the line to the men's restroom ran almost the periphery of the building, but the line to the women's restroom was very small. And I'm like, we have a lot of work to do because we want that line to be longer for women.

So yeah, once I see that

Rob Valincius: that's an interesting dynamic. I didn't think about that. That's kind of something wild to see if, if you're at a conference or anything. exactly. Yeah. So

Shweta Keshavanarayana: that's when I see similar lines, then I'll probably be very happy.

Rob Valincius: well look, I think, I think we're, we're getting more and more, uh, people into tech and, uh, I, I, uh, I think it's gonna be really hard to escape. Uh, tech just in general, especially with how intrusive AI is gonna be on our lives. I mean, it's everywhere now, right? Um, you know, I watched the, the tech release for, I'm a big Samsung guy, so I watched the Samsung launch party yesterday, and I mean, perplexities being built in to, to their new Galaxy S 26.

So, I mean, whether you say it or not, AI is gonna be here. It's already in integrated into your phones, which is part of your everyday life. So, um, I think the normal, average person's gonna have to know a little bit about it. Um, let's end on this. Um, what do you think everyday life is gonna look like, um, by 2030 and, you know, AI tech, I mean, what, what do you think our lives are gonna look like?

Because I, that's such a big, uh, issue right now. I mean, I'm hearing you hear so much stuff, everyone's gonna not have a job or, you know, like, what do you think? I mean, you're kind of plugged into the I, I'm a very positive person, Rob, so I would like us all to contribute back to the society with these hours saved with ai. Right. Like that, that's what, that's, that's my ideal world. So hopefully by 2030 if I am saving, like. 20 hours per week. Um, with AI doing a lot of enhancements with my productivity. I don't wanna work another 20 hours and make money.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: I want to volunteer, I wanna help, I want to help the kids who are the future citizens of the world. Like I wanna teach them what is right, what is wrong, uh, help them use technology responsibly, volunteer at shelters or soup kitchens. Like I want us to spend the time saved with productivity gains on making this world a better place to live.

So, yeah.

Rob Valincius: I valiant. Valiant. I would say I, I, I definitely would sleep a little bit more. Uh, no, I agree. I think if, if, uh, we took a page outta your book there. Um. You know, who knows where it's gonna be. I'm not a doo doom and gloom myself. Um, I think that, um, at least right now, you're always gonna need people and people are always gonna need them each other.

And, um, I think, uh, with the, with the way AI is, I think it's, uh, it's gonna supplement, it's gonna give us a lot of time back to do those things you're talking about. Right. Uh, volunteer or spend time with family. I mean, can't tell you how many times, you know, I'm traveling or, um, I'm away. And it's like, man, I just wish, wish I was hanging out with my family.

I, you know, I, I don't have kids. I have, you know, my wife and dogs and I, I wish my dogs have a very short lifespan. You know, I wanna, every day them is a couple weeks. So I wanna make sure that, uh, you know, that's the, the, the one thing outta COID. That, that I enjoyed was I got to work from home for like three months and, uh, I work very well from home.

That's like my thing. I'm, I, I, well, one, I build computers. That's, I love to do this. So my computer here is a super computer, but, um, I, I, I can bang out all of my work at home 'cause no one's bothering me when I'm in the office because I'm a jack of all trades. I have. But someone's at my desk pretty much every 10 minutes asking me questions.

'cause I'm also, I've been there for 11 years, so I know a lot of stuff. So it's like, it's great 'cause I know people account on me to know stuff or do stuff, but at the same time, trying to get work done is not always the easiest thing. When, when you got, uh, people constantly flowing up to your desk. I wish I had an office so I could just close the door, but we're not there yet.

Um, but look, it was a pleasure having you on. I really like, uh, a lot of the things that you talked about in terms of the, the way, the way the future could look and DEI and, um, just your role, um, I think is is really unique and I, I think, you know, keep fighting that fight. Um, you know, I know, uh, typically when I interview people, they're, you know, some people are authors and they have socials to plug.

Um, do you wanna leave us with some parting words or, um, you can also send my listeners anywhere you think would, would be a benefit for maybe yourself or who knows the world.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: Yeah, so I, I would say like, um. Be, be humble, be curious, learn, uh, spend some time learning every single day because that's what is going to help us, uh, ride the AI wave together. It's go, like you said, it's gonna be everywhere very soon. Uh, and everybody needs to adapt to it sooner than later. So embrace, uh, the change.

Embrace how the world is moving and like I believe in that workshop, stay remarkable, scream remarkable. So believe in yourself and that's what is gonna get you the opportunities that you deserve.

Rob Valincius: Awesome. Awesome. Hey, uh, do they do the, uh, the workshop, uh, virtually?

Shweta Keshavanarayana: yeah. Um, uh,

I know I've shared my LinkedIn with

you. Feel free to share it with your users, and I'm happy to run a workshop for the community anytime, like wake me up at 2:00 AM I will run this workshop because I'm so passionate about it and I've seen the impact of it firsthand.

Rob Valincius: You know, I might have to, maybe we'll get you in touch with my boss. Maybe we'll do it for our company. That'd be pretty cool.

Shweta Keshavanarayana: I'm excited. we'll, we'll, I'll connect with you on LinkedIn and We'll, and we'll, we'll see if we can get it done. I think that would be pretty cool. Uh, so, uh, my podcast is Drink a Clock Pod and all socials Drink A Clock podcast where every listen to podcast.

Rob Valincius: This will be up before you know it. And, uh, look, it was a pleasure having you on and, uh, I don't expect AI to take our jobs and, uh, steal our, my podcast. So we're good. Everyone needs to calm yeah, exactly. And AI will not give you the kind of insights Robin I gave you. Um, so yes, AI will not take away everything.

It's okay. People have a great night and, uh, thank you for tuning in. I appreciate Thank you Rob. Have a fantastic weekend.

You too.

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