Drink O'Clock
Podcast interviewing anyone, and everything, that we find interesting. Drinks may be involved and some shenanigans may be had.
Drink O'Clock
The Metal Rhinoceros in Space: Aaron Ryan on a Life of Storytelling
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What does it take to write fifty books and bring them to life in your own voice? This week the conversation runs from a second-grade writing assignment that lit the spark, to the business mindset that turns a hobby into a career, to a candid look at where AI is dragging the voiceover world.
We get deep into the creative process, the difference between a pantser and a planner, narrating your own audiobooks, and why consent is becoming the biggest fight in entertainment. Along the way there are detours into Aliens, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, and Stephen King that any genre fan will love.
A wide-ranging, funny, and honest talk about creativity, craft, and protecting what makes art human.
Aaron Ryan's Website: authoraaronryan.com
Want to be a guest on Drink O'Clock? Send us a message on PodMatch here: podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/drinkoclock.
You know, I gotta tell you, man, um it it is it is nice having a five-day weekend. So uh at my job, I I hit 11 years, so I earned an extra week. So I'm at I'm at the four, the coveted four weeks vacation. And I'm trying to figure out what to do with it all because I'm not used to it. So um like kind of just taking two days here and partnering it up with with a holiday and and getting that extra space, uh, which is nice. But uh anyway, I digress. This is the Drink O'Clock podcast. I am your host, Rob Valencius, and I have the pleasure of having a best-selling, award-winning author and inspirational speaker, Aaron Ryan, with me today. Man, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03Hey, thanks for having me. Good to be here. May I take a drink for the drink o'clock, start with the country time limited?
SPEAKER_00Cheers it up, man. Like I said before we hit record, you get you get a special version of me since I'm on vacay.
SPEAKER_03Sounds good. I'll be naturally curious what the other version is, but maybe we can talk about that later.
SPEAKER_00I I'll I'll tell you, so so when I first started this podcast, and my listeners are probably like, ah, we've heard this story. Um, I would I would start the show with taking shot a shot of fireball. And then I would towards the middle of the show take another shot of fireball. While I'm drinking an old-fashioned, so um by the time I'd get to the end, and this was when I didn't have a limit. So I I feel like people don't have an attention span, so I stick to 45 minutes to an hour. But this was back when I would go two, two and a half hours sometimes. And uh Wow by the two hour mark, the I was funny to listen to. We'll say that. So I should I I try not to do that. Uh, plus two, I'll be 40 this year. I've I feel like I should start to give my liver a little bit of a break, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, I've never been there really. I mean, like the whole uh fireball, I've heard of it. Have I ever had a fireball? I don't know, unless I was slipped something at a party, but that would probably necessitate me going to parties, which I don't. So probably I've never had one.
SPEAKER_00I I feel that I feel that. So look, man, let's let's start with uh let's start with the beginning here. Talk to me about growing up. Um, you know, I I always love to hear the uh the stories of of the authors that I that I interview. So hit me with your uh your quick intro of of where did you grow up and uh what what got you into the creative side of things?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I think it was conceived in August of 2019. No, I'm kidding. That's probably going back a little too far. Um boy, we grew up in, it's not exactly Hick Town, but I grew up in a very small town. It was a little bit of a dell outside North Bend, Washington. Okay. And uh two brothers, one of the fraternal twin. That means he doesn't look like me, poor guy. Um but uh grew up in a fairly standard, I think, normal, common, typical home. Um I'm I've always been right-brained. So creativity just runs like it's like you know, running through the arteries and veins. Uh always wanted to do things creative. So I I had no idea um about this uh like 50 years later, but my mom sent me an article of me in a young author's club when I was 10 years old, completely forgot about that. And it was like, you know, the memories come rushing back. I was like, oh my gosh. But Mrs. Walker in second grade gave me an assignment, everybody, an assignment. Um Mrs. Walker, and uh to write a little novella. And I did, everybody else did, and I just remember holding it in my hands when I was just you know all of seven years old. And went, oh my gosh, you know, look at this. Turn it around, look what I made. And so those are two real formative beginning stories that just say, Man, I was supposed to be an author from the very beginning. I love telling stories. Every major vocation I've had has been about telling stories, so I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome. And I know I talked about it on my my show before, but uh there was a class I'll never forget, and I didn't think I was gonna like it. Um, I took a class, a creative writing class, uh, when I was a um I think I was a freshman in high school, and uh I didn't think I was gonna like it. And our teacher gave us this assignment of I don't remember the specifics, but it was kind of just like write a short story or write write a story. So I started uh and and we each all got the old school vanilla with lines, like uh she handed those out to everybody, and that's what you use to hand in when you were handing an assignment. It's not like today where everyone's got a you know a freaking iPad, but um so I I remember I got really into writing the story, and it was a it was a uh I think it was a hard or scary style story that had to do with like a mummy. And I'll never forget, I you know, I turned it in for the assignment, and uh I forget what happened, but my teacher at one point was like, Hey, are you ever gonna finish that story? I'd like to know the ending. You know? And I was like, huh. I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm kind of good at this. I've always been uh on the creative side, like to drawing. Um I have a very I have a very large imagination. So uh, but I'll never forget that. It's it's it's wild when you're dealing with kids. Just just those little things that you know, your teacher, my teacher that you remember 20, 30 years later after the fact, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, absolutely. And I I think that was one of the things that was like a creative spark. I got it, I got a creative spark for Mrs. Walker for sure. I got a creative spark from J.R.R. Tolkien early on, that was for sure. That is the one author that really inspired me to become an author. Um, I didn't get it from my mom, although she is the more creative of the two parents. Case to the point, I don't remember how old I was, but I asked her, uh, I love to draw when I was a kid. And so, yeah, I would draw spaceships and robots and all the typical, you know, young boy fare. And I said, I said, Mom, you know, should draw a spaceship. I want to see what you can draw. And so, like, I'm not kidding, she drew what turned out to be ultimately a metal rhinoceros in space. And we joke about that to this day that, you know, perhaps you're a little bit more left-brained, mom. Uh, because yeah, she it's those things aren't aerial, really. I mean, not that I know of. Um, and dad is more of dad, dad's right-brained, but kind of goofy. Um maybe I'm getting it backwards. Maybe mommy's a little bit more left-brained, and that would explain the rhinoceros. Dad is more like the right-brain, goofy kind of guy. But the creative side, I think, came from more like external sources than uh than you know, home brewed. So to use an analogy from drink o'clock.
SPEAKER_00I like it. I like it. Um now you've done a you wore a a number of hats in your life, you know. Um, paper boy, worship leader, rock artist, voiceover, author. You know, tell me, is there you think that there's maybe a line that connects a lot of those things?
SPEAKER_03No. Um ultimately, no, not really. I mean, uh the vocations that I've had, yes. The the um the positions that I've had that have been, you know, managerial or in some kind of authority over like you know, uh, the ability to hire and fire, those have taught me a lot of of um valuable uh tips and practices about business acumen for sure. Paperboy, I mean, yes, you have to manage different clients, you have to manage tips if you get any. Um you have to manage um gosh, you have to manage um all kinds of different um routes? Your routes. Yeah, your routes and keeping papers nice and dry and and all that stuff. But um But I think just later in life, I I just learned so much from different careers as far as um how to run a business. And that is one of the things that I really am very grateful for and share with people, other authors, that if you really want to be a successful author, look at yourself more as a businessman who just happens to write books. Um, it's a different mentality. I'm a I'm a voiceover artist. You can see the studio back there, and I'm a businessman who just happens to do voiceovers. If I treat it like that, then my hobby is gonna go a lot farther because I put it on a vehicle to take it somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, it's a nice, that's a nice little office back there, man. I like it. I like it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Umagic.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, look, uh the one thing that I've always thought about doing is the voiceover stuff because I just I think it's fun. I actually had someone on my show. What the what's it called where uh it's not a voiceover artist, but they create the sounds for like cartoons and movies and shit like that.
SPEAKER_03Um, like a it's it's like a post-production audio engineer or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, I mean it like like if you're watching SpongeBob, they actually create like like it if it sounds like it's a cheese frying, it's not actually cheese frying. It's like something, it's like an instrument they're using or bet like oh man, that's gonna drive me nuts what it's called. It's a it's an interesting, it's like a weird word that you would like normal people wouldn't know. But um and and uh I've had a couple voice actors on the show as well, and they talk a lot about you know um just being in the craft and honing in on your characters, and sometimes, you know, as a business owner, right? When you're you you're on your own. So when you're doing the voiceover stuff, it's the same concept, right? You know, they give you a script and they kind of tell you what you want it to be, but you're on your own um to use that that left brain of yours to be creative with the character. And um, you know, do you feel like the voiceover stuff has also kind of helped you um with your writing as well in terms of being creative and yeah, uh well, they're both storytelling.
SPEAKER_03I mean, voiceovers, you get to tell someone else's story, be their storyteller. Uh as a as an author, I get to tell my own stories, and I greatly prefer that. But um, yeah, it's a it is a creative pursuit, and it they're both are bringing a story to life. I think that with voiceovers, uh, man, so much of my work is just done completely isolated. I'm in a studio talking to myself all day, uh, or I'm sitting here talking to characters that don't exist all day. So it's a very paranoid schizophrenic career path for both of them. But but it's so enjoyable because I get to create either way, less so with voiceovers because the script's already locked. Um, but it's just, you know, both of them teach you how to bring something ex nahilo, like something out of nothing. And you have to bring a script to life, their script. You have to bring a story to life, your story. And it both take a little bit of uh like acting and creative finesse in either case. They're both a blast to do.
SPEAKER_00Now, how long have you been writing? Because you you have 44 published books. That's that's a pretty large number of books.
SPEAKER_03It's actually 51 now. Uh or 50, sorry. Um I'm working on book 51. Yeah, I I've I did three uh more children's book books and then an omnibus that went with that, so there's four more. And then I published uh a memoir of my wife and I uh uh kind of our our dating story, how neither one of us really felt worthy of love. It's it's a it's a sweet story. And so uh that one, and then I just published a horror novel just this past Monday on my birthday.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice!
SPEAKER_03So that visited me to thank you so much, put me up at 50. I started though back honestly with with Mrs. Walker in that second grade assignment in 1981. Um I took a sabbatical. I mean, I tried all kinds of creative avenues for years and years and years, uh, and came back to it in the early 90s. But um, yeah, I've been writing for a while, just in various forms, but I love writing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so what's your now I I've interviewed a lot of a lot of uh authors and I I love to hear about the creative process. What's your process like? You know, duh, you know, I've I've I've dealt with people who have to sit in a bar and talk to people and be around people, and then I've I've uh dealt with authors that have to go. Like uh I dealt with an author, she's like, all right, she she told her husband, I'm gonna go away. She went to a hotel and she stayed in a hotel for like three weeks to alone to write. What's your style like when you're writing?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've I don't think I have anything like that. There's I love Lance Hendrickson from the movie Aliens. Um I don't know if you can see a picture back there. Aliens is my favorite movie of all time. But Lance Hendrickson has this process he calls gathering. So as he prepares for a role, he goes around and he does this thing called gathering, where he's like, you know, gathers, for lack of a better word, all these things he's gonna need to assimilate into his into his character. Um that strikes me as one of as a different style of writing from mine. There's two notable, traditionally known styles. One is the pantzer. They fly by the seat of their pants. It's very organic storytelling.
SPEAKER_01That's good. I like that. I like that one.
SPEAKER_03That's totally me. I'm a total pancer. Uh and then there's a planner, and that's more like Lance Hendricks than the gathering style with bullet points and flow charts and index cards and lots of research. I like to just kind of tell a story and see where it goes. Um, and there's a lot of panthers out there that actually write really, really good books. Because yeah, you can wind up somewhere you didn't intend to go, and you can always control Z your way out of there. Okay, that didn't work, you know, and then go this way, oh, sorry, you know, and then redirect. Um but I I I typically do it during the nine to five. I've got a 10 and six-year-old son who need their daddy and their daddy needs them. So after work, I'm I'm a family man. So I'll write during the day.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I mean, look, I I guess it makes sense. All right, so real quick before let's digress a little bit. Favorite alien movie, and I'll I'll let you also include the new stuff.
SPEAKER_03Uh every day of the week, and twice on Sunday, Sunday, Aliens. James Cameron's 1986 Aliens. Um shortly behind that, or I don't know if I was shortly, but the next one after that would be Alien, and then the next one after that would be Alien uh three. Uh Alien Three really is an acquired taste. I cannot stand the beginning. It completely undoes the last third act of Aliens.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and you don't really care about the characters. I don't like I I kind of liked being back in Alien Land with Romulus, but there are so, so many cringe-worthy uh tips of the hat to the other movies in the series. And it was like, man, do you got a leg to stand on of your own? What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00I just saw Romulus. Resurrection. I just saw Romulus uh maybe six months ago. Um it was good. I mean, I I like the I I'm one of those people, I I enjoy the backstory of things. Um, so like I know everyone hates, you know, Star Wars, the original, uh not the original trilogy, but one, two, and three. Yes. Um, however, I've talked about this before as well. I'm a Star Wars guy. Star Wars is probably my all-time favorite, like sci-fi world. Um you gotta watch Star Wars four, five, one, two, three, six, and it makes the movies so much better from a backstory perspective. You care a lot more when Darth Vader dies, which spoiler here, if you haven't watched Star Wars, come on, man. Wait, what? Okay. But that's the that's the appropriate way to watch the movies.
SPEAKER_03I I do not like one. I think two is just extreme torture and punishment. I cannot stand attack of the clones. Uh, but I actually really enjoy Revenge of the Sith because I love the Star Wars, uh, the Darth Vader um turn. And he's turned, he's seduced to the dark side by Emperor Palpatine. Yep. And all of the different uh missteps that he takes and the temptations that he falls prey to uh via or vis-a-vis, I guess would be the expression, Palpatine laying that those traps for him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I love that change. It's very dark, and you can you can never get the the little kids out of your head, the younglings, and him slaying those poor little kids with his lightsaber at the end. But that's that's Darth Vader. That's true to form of who Darth Vader was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I I think my fate one of my favorite genres of writing is the anti-hero. Because there's just something not necessarily fun, but there's just something about um watching a good person or a good character and seeing their downfall. Because you watched him when he was a a kid, a little kid, you know, and then you watched him up until the point where he dons the mask. And there's something very human because we can all decide to make those wrong choices, right? And become something that we're not. And um it's it's cool. I I uh Dart so uh start in the Star Wars realm, there's a trilogy that I don't think is canon anymore, ever since Disney bought it, but uh Darth Bain was a trilogy series. It was really, really good. Um the the book Darth Plagueis, which I think is canon in Star Wars, is really, really good because you actually get a lot of background on uh you know the Palpatine and The Senate and Darth Maul and all the things he was doing to try to stay alive forever. And it's it's a really, really good tie-in book if you're watching the original soon. Have you read that?
SPEAKER_03I have not, but it sounds good. It does sound good.
SPEAKER_00It's it's really good. Uh I was trying to think if there's any others in this in this series, but uh everything's not canon anymore ever since Disney bought it, which you know they release. I I just saw a thing, and I don't know if you follow uh Star Wars news, but uh they're going to re-release Star Wars movies, and they're just gonna pretend like the the three that they just released never existed. It's not part of the universe anymore.
SPEAKER_03Oh, seven, eight, and nine?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. I'm not a fan of uh of eight. Um and nine was okay. Uh no, I have to just say full disclosure, and I and I thought seven was was pretty good, although there was seriously um like a just a lack of creativity. Oh, okay, big planet killing orb in the in the sky, huh? We've never seen that before. Yeah. Gotta navigate down a trench. Oh, haven't seen that before. And so there's a lot of repetition there. But my favorite character in the entire Star Wars canon is um uh is Palpatine. And so to see him come back, it's a stretch, sure. But I mean, you know, you throw the guy down a shaft on the Death Star, and you don't exactly see him die. There's room for Palpatine to come back, especially since he is um, since he's recounting that story to Anakin uh with you know in that space opera um of Darth Plagueis the wives. And, you know, he could keep the ones that he loved from dying. So for him to bring himself back wasn't uh it didn't strain credulity really too much, but it was also like, is this is this is this the way to go? I don't know if this is the way to go. All right, whatever, I'll just take it.
SPEAKER_00See, I I like I was I was with you. I was okay with seven because they were set, it's like the setup movie, you know. I was okay. I was cool with that. I mean, it wasn't the best, but it wasn't the worst. I and and the wifey sits behind the green screen, and I know she's probably gonna make a face. When we went to see eight, which I have to drag her to these, this isn't necessarily her thing. I made her watch all the originals, thankfully. I love her to death. Uh, I made her watch all the originals in my order, and uh, she liked parts of it, right? She liked the Jawas and you know, like the cute Ewoks, and our we have two dogs, and they they're basically they look like Ewoks, they're Brussels Griffins. So um, but uh when I saw I wanted to never be a Star Wars fan again. I was so irritated. Like, that's how mad I was. I'm saying I'm walking at the theater and I'm like, they just they just got rid of everything that they they did. I don't understand. And then um we saw nine, and uh yeah, I was in the same boat as you was like, it's all right. Um I I see it was such a big of a like such a bit of a stretch, but apparently, I guess the merchandise and things and all that from 7, 8, and 9, even though it was a billion dollars, it wasn't what it could have been or should have been. So they're gonna, I think, just completely um I think because the head Disney lady is gone and and she did a lot of random, she made a lot of just iffy decisions in the Star Wars universe. I think they're gonna just try to reset, which I'm I'm cool with.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Kathleen Kennedy, I think is who it was. Yeah. Yeah. So as I'm watching Star Wars, uh, it was a it was a foregone conclusion that Han uh was gonna die. I knew that was gonna happen, and he's been petitioning for that all the way back to the original series. But um what what I love, what I do love is, and particularly in three, or I guess it would be nine, um, is You know, here come all of these ships out of light speed, and they're gonna take on the Emperor's new fleet. And there's all of these, you know, planet killing, Death Star, uh, Star Destroyers been like, okay, whatever. That's just that's too much firepower for me. But all of a sudden, here comes one ship into view, and you instantly know who that pilot is. Not not Lando. I mean, you know Lando, he's recognizable. Yeah. But I saw it and I went, Wedge and Tilly's. I said, that's Wedge. And I just, it's those little payoffs that feel so good that bring you back to the original full circle. But I have to say, too, much as I love Star Wars, rings. So Tolkien is who inspired me to become an author. This is not the one ring I just want to clarify. See, I'm still here. Still here. Still here. But I I love uh Lord of the Rings. And I on the same uh the same tone. It's good to be back in the Star Wars universe when you watch 7, 8, and 9 or or both, you know, Mandalorian or whatever. Yeah. Rings of Power, kind of good to be back in the Lord of the Rings universe, but also like, yeah, so many gross violations of canon there. So it's unforgivable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I so I haven't watched the movies in a long time. It's probably been 20-ish years since I've watched the the movies. It's about when they came out. Yeah. Um, and I never read the books, which which I probably should. I'm I'm a big I'm a big time audiobooker, so I I think I at some point want to maybe get back into it. It's it's tough with books like Game of Thrones and uh Lord of the Rings to listen to because they have there's so many names that are similar that it's tough. Some like you might be listening to it and they'll say a character like, oh, and then they go to another character, like, oh, I thought that's who that was. And then it's different uh because you're listening to it and not what like reading it on paper.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um but it also depends on who's reading the audiobook, too, because some audiobooks, I will actually enjoy an audiobook more uh based on some of the guys that that read it, um and just how they read it compared to some of the monotone people, you know?
SPEAKER_03Right. Well, as uh as a voice actor and an author, I get that crossover and I and I enjoy it. So I hate doing audiobooks. Um, they take way too long and they pay way too little. The market is oversaturated with narrators, and now when you cast, I made this mistake. I've I've forced an author. I cast a um I I put I put a job posting up on ACX for my recent horror novel, which is a female protagonist. I'm not gonna try to narrate that. I don't sound anything like a female. So I cast it, and the person I cast turns out to be an AI narrator. And I'm like, you know, your audition sounded human, it sounded good, that's why I cast you. I feel betrayed. And now I gotta back out this and cancel everything and then start again. Um, but I love narrating my own. When they're mine and it's the male protagonist, I had a 14-year-old uh uh boy as a as a main protagonist of a previous book, wasn't gonna do that one either. So I cast a friend from church, uh family friend from church to do that one. But I I love narrating them. And when I tell people that I'm an author and they go, eh, not much of a reader. Do you got them on audio? Yes, I do. Wait, are you the narrator? Did you did you narrate them? I feel like a jack lit deer, you know, like, uh yeah, is that okay? And they love when I say yes, that it's me narrating them because the author knows how the story is supposed to sound. The author knows how the characters are supposed to sound. So it's it's cool doing my own. I love it.
SPEAKER_00I so uh a lot of the authors, now some of the people I've interviewed have had like it's it was more of a a book about their traumatic, like fucked up life. So um I for them it was kind of like a uh you know uh healing thing, being, you know, the author, but also being the person that was reading it. Um, yeah, and I said to them, you know, because I I always like to buy uh the books and and listen to stuff that uh for people that were on the show. And I I said to the to the one author, and I said to her, I'm like, listen, based on your story and all the things that you went through in your life, I mean, she just had some really crazy things happen. I'm like, I would not have wanted anyone else on the planet to read that. You had to read it because you could feel like when someone's reading something and they care about it, and I'm sure that's the same way for you, right? Like you care about the book, you care about you created these characters. So there's just a certain level of ownership and almost like they're part of you. And uh, I feel like there's something to that. So it's it's awesome that you do read your own stuff.
SPEAKER_03I I'd be so remiss if if I cast it and someone did a terrible job. Um, I mean, you talk about 50 books, there's a lot to screw up in that. And um uh here's something that'll probably throw some people for a loop. But I I have a lot, many of my characters, my beloved characters from my dissonance alien invasion saga, I have their fictional birthdays on my real life calendar. Um, because the line between fiction and reality gets gets blurred. These people are real, uh or you desperately want them to be. So if I outsourced this book to someone and they did a bad job and didn't bring it to life and I had to pay them and keep that, it'd be such a bummer because they just they they missed it. Uh and you don't want them to miss it. I'm the only person who can hopefully nail it. Now, it isn't to say that if you're an author, by all means narrate your own books. Because if you suck at at speaking and you're like, you know, huge lisp or you slur everything, or you just talk like this the entire time and you're totally a deadpan. You know, you're not gonna bring anything to life that way. You have to be dynamic and rise and fall and crespendos and be crespendos.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you gotta have like if there's multiple characters, I feel like you gotta have some sort of difference in them. Um and I really appreciate the the really good audiobook readers that just they just have a way with creating voices that make sense to the characters and they stick with it and they're good with it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, that's where that's where I have a one-up. I got a leg up on the competition because I am a voice actor and I can do several of accents. I've I've been cast over and over for British. Um, I've done Caribbean, I've done uh Deep South, you know, Texas, I've done Australian, and I can do them well. And so I often now I'm finding that I'm I'm intentionally this is so sneaky, but I'm intentionally writing in characters in my books in the writing process that have a Scottish accent. I could, I can do that too. You know, I want to write them into my books so that I'll get to voice that accent in the audiobook. It's totally like conniving and sneaky, but it's like, you know, not everyone can do that. And that gives a lot of distinction between the voices.
SPEAKER_00Get you practice too, right? You know, like you can say, hey, look, I you need a Scottish guy. I'm your guy. You know, listen to this. Here's here's two minutes of me, you know, being Scottish. It's my book, too, if you want to buy it.
SPEAKER_03You'd have to say, I'm your gay.
SPEAKER_00I'm your gay. So I'm looking at your uh dissonance series on Audible. Uh looks like you have so you have um which one's this? Okay, so you have the entire book series together, which is that's cool. I like that. And then you have book zero through five. So you have a, I guess is zero like a prequel?
SPEAKER_03So there's actually six books. There's four that are basically the main story, one, two, three, four. Okay. And then there are two prequels. Uh, volume zero is the first prequel, and then volume up is the second prequel. Um and it's a silly story. I won't, I won't, you know, belabor that why I had to write two different prequels. Um but yeah, there's there's two prequels to the story. It was totally intended to just be a trilogy, but then it was such a great story. It kept telling itself, it demanded the two prequels in a sequel. So it goes zero, up, one, two, three, four.
SPEAKER_00And then you have Relentless.
SPEAKER_03That's number four. That's volume four.
SPEAKER_00Okay. All right. Well, I'm definitely going. So uh is the this one here, it's the entire series together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, all six books. It's 51 hours of material. All right.
SPEAKER_00Well, here you go. Boom.
SPEAKER_03And there's several different narrators. Just bought the whole series, baby.
SPEAKER_00There you go.
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank you so much. Always like. Thank you. Well, it's if you're driving or if you're doing a lot of work with uh around the home or remodeling or whatever, it's it's people say they love that length because it's 51 hours of content.
SPEAKER_00So I drive about two hours a day. It's a you know, hour there, hour back. Might be you know, faster sometimes, sometimes it could be longer. Depends on what I'm hitting. So um I really like hitting the audiobooks. I just um I I decided to go Stephen King because I haven't listened to a Stephen King book uh in my adult life. So I'm reading uh are you a Stephen King fan at all?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love misery. I'm I'm actually trying to, if I can, base a little bit of my next novel on a kind of a misery twist, maybe.
SPEAKER_00Okay, all right. I'm listening to uh fairy tale right now because I thought that was it was had a really cool premise that was very un Stephen King-ish.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Well, misery, misery is like, as an author, that terrifies me. So I mean, like, why wouldn't I write about that? Because that's it's gonna be close to home. It's gonna hit close to home. So my fingers will fly more than they would on a you know something with math in it or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I so you're gonna laugh at me. Uh the wifey's uh she grew up on horror movies, and I had never seen Misery. And uh we watched it together. When was that? Maybe two years ago? Uh yeah, maybe it was like three or four years ago. We watched Misery together. Uh, and it was such a good movie, really good. Um, but hey, I'll say this. She never saw Ace Mentora up until like three or four years ago either. So uh I I we kind of throw these movies at each other. I'm like, I'm like, and she likes silly stuff like that. I'm like, you've never seen Ace Mentora. Now, anytime it's on, we watch Ace Mentora. We've seen it like a hundred times, you know. Uh it's it's just it's a classic.
SPEAKER_03And Dumb and Dumber. I don't know if you like Dumb and Dumber as much, but that is, in my opinion, that and like Galaxy Quest are movies that just do not fail you in terms of comedy all the way through. They're just so good all the way through.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's the other thing. Dumb and Dumber is basically one of her all-time favorite movies, and she quotes it all the time. And I'm like, how have you never seen Ace Vandora? But Dumb and Dumber is like your all-time favorite movie. You gotta watch it.
SPEAKER_03Tell your wife, Samsonite was way off.
SPEAKER_00He said, Samsonite, I was way off. She's laughing. Um, but yeah, she quotes it all the time. It's just it's fun. But um, so let me ask you this why we're why we're on the books, right? Um are you are do you get time to read some some stuff yourself, or are you always like on the go writing your own stuff?
SPEAKER_03Uh both. I mean, like it's typically what I'll read is like when the kids are are having a bath night, you know, and I'm I'm just making sure they're okay up in the in the bedroom. But uh honestly, one of my books has been adapted for the screen, it's being pitched to streaming networks. And if they um if they exercise uh an option to uh the right to option that script or to buy it, then quickly things are gonna be in motion and it's it's gonna be on kind of like a you're you're carried downstream with a current. And one of the things that my screenwriters slash marketers said is you you have to know your story inside and out. So uh I am finishing up big surprise, the Lord of the Rings again. I'm reading it again. As soon as I'm done with that, it's gonna be right back into the whole saga of dissonance all over again. Because if they option it or they buy it, they're gonna start writing scripts for you know the whole series. And I need to know it better than they do. They're gonna go, hey Aaron, you know, what's how many, how many gun towers are on the top of every uh every blockade? You know, I have to know that that's eight, you know? So just the little bitty things I need to know. So I do read, but right now it's the things that I've just read over and over again. And believe it or not, rehashing that, recycling those favorite reads, even though it's repetitive, uh, it's still it's still very energizing. And it's still you still get fresh ideas uh and and you know motivation for your your your newest work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one of the my all-time favorite sci-fi series right now that I've that I've gotten into is uh and is called Red Rising. Have you heard of it? Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um is it in a movie?
SPEAKER_00It's not a movie, but I know that they've pitched it and I and I feel like um that's where I saw it. Yeah, it's it's not it's not uh done yet. The the author is Pierce Brown.
SPEAKER_03Um I've totally seen the ads and the reels for it.
SPEAKER_00If it if I could tell you to read any book if you have time. Uh it's a uh right now I think it's a it's a six book series. I think they're done uh book five. Book six is supposed to be out sometime this year, hopefully. Um one of the best series I've ever read in my life.
SPEAKER_03It just I've heard that. Good reviews too.
SPEAKER_00He just has a way with um it's it's like Game of Thrones needs space, but I'm also I really like like uh that Greek mythology and they use a lot of that in in it it's it's so good. I I recommend it to everybody. So uh and I'm sure it's gonna be a um a major, I know it's gonna be a major motion picture. I don't know when uh because they've been talking about it for a while, but such a good series. And um it's it's it resonates really well because it's a cast. The the way it the book is is set up is it's a cast. Uh you basically are assigned a color and golds are the the best. Like, you know, they're they're six, seven feet tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, they're perfect, they're athletes. There's you're not gonna see anyone that's out of shape. They're like the perfect human. And then uh everyone else has a color and they're basically working for them, you know. And uh the premise of the book is uh a red who's from Mars, he's a minor, was totally fine with his life. And you find this out basically in the first chapter, but his they hang his wife. And uh it basically turns him into uh someone that decides where he's he wants to bring down the the hierarchy and it starts, you know. So uh he gets on a in a freedom group and uh they want to turn him into a gold and they want to bring it down from the you know inside. And he there's like an institute where they they once you are you know uh old enough, they put you in this institute and it's basically cutthroat and it's just so good, dude. It's so good. I could talk about it for hours.
SPEAKER_03So uh No, he's got super high ratings, so yeah, I'd definitely be interested. And I and I'd seen it, I think, before, but I wasn't in the I wasn't in a reading frame of mind just yet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and listen, if you want to draw inspiration, I don't know. Uh I'm gonna read your book, so I'll let you know uh my my thoughts. But he's just he's very there's some there's some stuff in that book that'll that'll that'll mess you up a little bit, you know, like a beloved character might die and then you're like, what the hell? And you have to go back, you know, yeah, I I'll I'll like go back five minutes and re-listen to it, like just to kind of get it right because that's the type of stuff that I mean as a reader, I like where if I have to, if someone dies or something crazy happens and I have to go back five minutes to put myself into like um the zone, I guess. Uh that those are the type of books I just it really draws me in. And then I have to keep listening.
SPEAKER_03There, um, yeah, I've definitely killed off my share. I'm more murderer than author, uh and I hate that. But it's like uh it's it's it can never be cavalier, it can never be um uh a throwaway, you know, especially if it's a beloved character. It always has to be a catalyst for something. And so uh I learned that very early on. It completely disassembled me, and you you'll hear it. When a character, when I killed off a character in volume one reality, that's me bawling. That's me bawling during the edit, that's me bawling during the uh the audiobook recording. So you'll hear that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you you gotta get attached to these guys, man. It's part you're basically killing off a part of yourself, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's your baby. You created it.
SPEAKER_00Now, you know, one of the dissonance books was, you know, that's the what you kind of brought up. Um, you know, did did they pursue you, you know, or or what walk me through kind of what happened there? Because I know the streaming platforms are always looking for something new. That's gotta be pretty exciting for you, man.
SPEAKER_03So much. I'm I'm so I'm tickled. I just I can't wait to see what'll happen with this because um it is every indie author's dream to have their book adapted for the screen and to see it on screen. That's the goal. Um, the goal of of course, let me clarify, isn't actually to see it on screen, but it but to hit the the highest uh amount of of readers um and people who will enjoy your books possible. Um so they pursued me, and you know, as an author, I enjoy the rich, exquisite privilege of receiving 30 to 40 scams, spam emails every single day. Um it's so frustrating because what you wouldn't give to receive one email a week, one week, saying, I I love your stuff, you know, I loved your book. No, we don't get those. It's it's all crickets, and the only thing we get is people who just want to steal our money. It's so frustrating. Um, so I get this email from this guy or from his assistant in uh March of 2024. Um and I'm like, you know, naturally a skeptic. Uh, but I vetted him, and he is who he says he is. He's uh a Hollywood accredited fellow. He's on IMDb. His stuff is uh was award-winning um screenplay that won a contest. Get this. Put on by Gail Ann Hurd, who is the ex-wife of James Cameron. I know who's that.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03Gail Ann must be three degrees away from James Cameron. I'm like, ah, so I checked him out, I vetted him, and I said, you know, I'm gonna be so sad if I don't do this. I have to do this. Um so I did. He's very collaborative. It's true to the book, and it's the pilot from Volume One Reality, and he's pitched it to, I don't know, uh 15 to 20 different studios, and no one has said no yet, except for one, I believe, only because they were re um reorganizing. Uh whether it was like the uh the um gosh, Sky Dance and Netflix and Paramount and Warner Brothers and that whole business. Yeah, but it's the dust has settled and now they're looking at it again. So I'm so excited and so hopeful.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome, man. Um listen, let's, let's, let's, um, let's ask you for a tip here. Um, because I do have a lot of young people that do listen to the show. For an indie author listening to this podcast, um, can you bestow some some knowledge on them, maybe a realistic path? Like, um, you know, what are some of the things that people get wrong um when they're trying to do something like this?
SPEAKER_03Oh my gosh, there's so much. So the first thing, there's so much I like to do.
SPEAKER_00I've failed so many times, but let me tell you, this is the way to go about it, right?
SPEAKER_03This is the way. Um all you do is you just continue failing forward. I mean, really, that's that's the story. But um uh I so I I I'm an indie author by choice. There's so many trade-offs that you have to make when you want to when you sign with a self-pubbed or self-publisher or indie publisher. Excuse me. I'm so saying this backwards. There's so many trade-offs that you make when you sign with a traditional publisher. As an indie publisher, man, I get much quicker, higher, uh, quicker time to market. I can command higher royalties. I get to retain all rights, I get to retain all creative control. I get to choose my own branding, my own editors, my own marketing.
SPEAKER_00So big, so big being able to have the creative control. So big.
SPEAKER_03It's huge. To surrender that is a I mean, for me, I'm very impatient. I want to get my books out there to market. 51 I'm working on right now, if I was traditionally published, maybe less than half of those would be out by now. So maybe. I mean, probably maybe less than a third. I don't even know. Um, the most important thing though is you have to decide is if you are gonna pursue um traditional or self-publishing, if you're going to pursue using AI to help support uh your creative process, because it's an incendiary polarizing topic. I use um very occasionally I'll use assistive AI for idea generation for a book only. I do not believe in using generative AI to create any part of my book. Uh I'll get ideas and then I'll go, all right, cool. And then I'll I'll start writing my book, and it's entirely from here and here, entirely. Um the industry's really saturated, and the offerings are really diluted now by AI content. It's just watered down the quality of the offerings. So choose wisely there. Um and Oscar Wilde said, Everyone, uh be yourself, everyone else has already taken. Man, don't try. Try to be the next Tolkien, Clancy, Crichton, Grantram, Collins, you know, uh, SA Corey. Just be you. Everyone else has already taken. Um, find your own unique style, your own unique voice that you can bring to the market because they don't need more of the same. Be you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's so important in today's world. Um, you know, it's it's the same reason, you know, I've been doing this podcast now for uh like three and a half years. Actually, yeah, we're pushing four. We're pushing four. Actually, it'll August, I think it'll be four. Um Wow, I the time just is like I I don't even remember where I am anymore half the time. Um but I tell people my first dude, my first like three years, it was, you know, I had people that would download, but it was like, you know, I I I would I'm a numbers guy um and I'm an up entrepreneur, so uh I haven't earned a cent doing this. It's just I I enjoy it. Um, but you know, the first three years, sometimes it gets very deflating. You know, there'd be some times where I would have such a good guest and I'm like, this is gonna be great. And I'd get two people that listen. You know, and I'm like, fuck, man, like what more do I need to do? And uh it's funny, I was I was telling the wifey this before we got on um, you know, probably a day or two ago. I've had more people listen to my podcast this year, just just 2026 than all three years combined. So it's it's yeah, it's it's uh I you know, I and I I'd imagine as a creative, as someone that's writing, it's the same concept, right? It's like don't give up. Like just keep doing it. If you enjoy it and you can afford to do it, you know, uh, you know, and uh just continue to do it because you never know who's gonna listen and then tell their friend or who's gonna read your book and tell their friend, and then before you know it, it might be getting picked up by streaming platforms.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Well, um I I love this phrase that I quote it all the time. I probably overquote it, but I was I was given a phrase by uh a former casting agent slash um uh entrepreneur, and she said, uh, someone's endorsement of you or lack thereof has very little to do with your trajectory. I love that phrase because you know, as authors, we want people to buy our books, we want good reviews, we want to be asked to speak, we want to be asked to share, we want to be invited places, uh, we want our books to be uh, we want to hear from people that say they like books, whether or not it's it's comes in a review that they post. And um, those aren't necessarily gonna come uh quickly, if at all. So um, and those are endorsements. Your trajectory, if you're an author and this is what you want to do, it's it's your trajectory is to continue writing books regardless of the little backpats and ego strokes that you might get along the way. Uh if your trajectory is, or if your calling is to be an author, your trajectory is forward, independent of all of that. It really is.
SPEAKER_00And I think that's with everything, right? I mean, um, you're gonna do certain things and it might not work out, but if you just stick with it, or you know, um sometimes you might need to pivot a little bit, right? Um, you know, when I start first started doing this podcast, it was just to interview like game video game streamers, uh, because that's what I was doing at the time. And I'm like, all right, how many people am I am I gonna be able to get to do this regularly? And I'm like, let's just let's just change the format a little bit. It's the same concept, just a little bit. And um, I think sometimes you gotta do that along the way. Um now you mentioned AI, and that's something I definitely wanna wanted to talk about uh before we got out today. And um, I'm a proponent of AI, I love AI, I'm a tech guy. Um, you know, I use it in a lot of the things that I do, it does help, but you gotta run into it to the point where it's it's gotta be nauseating, you know, from not just you know people using it to create books, but also in your voiceover work.
SPEAKER_03Uh it's it's dramatically negatively impacted both careers in a massive degree. I can't even begin to articulate in the amount of time that we have today. Um, so as a voiceover actor, that's that's where I first started to experience the negative effects of AI. Um, beloved, cherished relationships that I've had forever with uh producers are gone. Um they've been so the producers have even been either been replaced by AI themselves. We don't need you anymore. We can seriously just do this through C dance, or they've been instructed to no longer use human voice talent because they can use 11 Labs or Respeech or Speech Ocean or whatever. And they're all crappy software, they're not directable, it's not, it doesn't have the human nuance, the human idiosyncrasy. It is purely about dollars and you know, getting it done quickly. So rather than pay a human voice talent $3,300, whatever, for a national TV commercial for a year, which is the market rate, we can buy speech ocean for $49 for a lifetime license, you know, and then plug in whatever we want. So it makes good fiscal sense, sure. Um, but the you know, largely the amount of time that you're gonna spend, the amount of money you're gonna save is gonna be offset by the huge amount of time you're gonna have to spend to calibrate that voice, to train that voice, to tweak every little thing, to get it to your liking, only to have to circle back and go, you know what, screw this. Let's just hire a human voice talent again. Uh and then an authoring, I already addressed that. That just the quality of offerings in the authoring industry are being watered down and diluted by AI flop and crap.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I look, uh AI is great, I think, at assisting us. And I like what you said, because I it's the same concept for me. It's like if I have an idea, I'll use AI to flush it out, right? Or maybe I kind of know what I want, but I don't know what that is, and I'll just say, hey, you know, hit me with 20 things, you know, and then and then once I I get that, oh then I can kind of go with the flow with it. Um if you're using it to do everything creatively, it is slob, and you're gonna get a lot, and I think we're at a point where it's like, oh my god, you know, and the companies are saving money and they're they're pumping stuff out at speed, you know, I think you'll have a pushback at some point where it's like, okay, you know, AI can only do so much. Now, who knows? Maybe we'll have AI chatbots that you you could never tell that they're you know, not human and you know, in the in five to ten years. But I still think from a human perspective, you just have there's something I don't even know how to um put it in words. There's just something about the feels that you can almost tell, you know, like that person is, you know, using AI and doesn't give a shit.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, it's very frustrating. I mean, ultimately you can't um as a as a voice actor, I can hear the difference. I can tell when it's a synthetic voice. Yeah. A lot of people are untrained in that way, but I'm dealing with audio all day long. So I know full well what is supposed to sound human and what doesn't. And so uh, but a lot of the people aren't uh equipped in that regard, or they don't really care. There's a nonchalance about it. And um, it's not something that you you can train people on. But there's also just the ethics of it. And you've got cases, clear-cut and dry cases, of like, you know, Scarlett Johansson was in the movie Her and they took her voice and they made an AI, uh an LLM model and an AI voice of Scarlett Johansson's voice. She's rightfully suing her, suing those people. Um, Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in that sea dance rooftop fight, you know, their likenesses were used. Neither one of them were in that, neither one of them consented to that. I have to wonder what Ian Holm, who played Ash in the original Alien, the Android, uh, he's now Rook, which is a look-alike android in Romulus. Yep. And it's his likeness, it's very cringeworthy. His estate gave them permission to do that. But I have to wonder, what would Ian Holm say? Did he stipulate something in his will? It's just, it's it's so dick, you know, and why can't you just come up with something new? Uh that was another cringe worthy callback. James Earl Jones licensed his voice post-mortem to uh, you probably know this. He sold the rights to his voice um posthumously. Well, he did it before he death, but posthumously now they can use James Earl Jones' voice in any future uh Darth Vader spin-off stuff because he gave that consent. Yeah. And so that I'm okay with, but gosh, the consent thing is a huge issue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean, I will say that Brad Pitt like fighting video and stuff was wild. It's like absolutely wild. But yeah, I mean, like, where do you draw the line? Right? Where is that line in the sand where you know, yeah, you can be creative, but but is it really creative just typing two sentences in an AI? I I I don't think so. I don't think that's being creative. Um, but I this is the world we live in, right? So it's like, you know, where do you see, you know, the voiceover? Well, let's talk the voiceover. Where do you see that going in the future? Do you think eventually it's gonna get to a point where it's just gonna kind of go away, or do you think it's going to uh have some pushback with people?
SPEAKER_03Um I think honestly, my gut tells me it'll go away. I mean, people have said over and over that it won't go away. And you've got people who are, you know, the top recognized figureheads in the voiceover industry at the top of a very narrow kind of what I like to call an Illuminati. They control all the speaking circuits and they control all the um, not all of them, but they control a wide variety of people who are recognized and endorsed and uh and promoted to share and speak and teach and give. I wanted to be part of that. I was an outsider looking in, I was a fifth wheel and anomaly, and they wouldn't let me in. I kind of got mad after a while, spoke truth to power, and left. Um but you know, I'm so glad because it resulted in a boot bounty of creativity. But those people at the very top are saying, oh, don't worry, don't worry about AI. Um, yes, worry about AI. Uh Siri is getting better and better. Uh I can't say her name because she's right there, but A L E X A is getting better and better and better. And Bixby and all of these other iterations of Google Voice and all that stuff are getting so better. Now you've got visuals. Um, what I love is somebody like Sean Aston, who played Sam Wise Gamsby in Lord of the Rings. He is the president of the SAGAFTRA union, and he and the union are fighting hard to maintain rights so that our likeness cannot be taken without our consent.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because you know these big studios do not give a shit. They're gonna do everything they can to save money. Because at the end of the day, what what's the the general saying? It's you have to in order to break even, you have to gross double the amount of the what you spent, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, whatever it is. Whatever, whatever that is. Imagine they give a prompt to to Chat GPT or Groc or whatever, and then within a few hours they've got a full movie and they just run with it. Yeah, why wouldn't you do that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I mean, look, from a CEO per slash owner perspective, that makes sense, right? But I think those people are out of touch with a lot of the stuff from down here. Um and I think at some point, uh and I'm a tech guy. I think AI is uh it's here to stay, it's not going anywhere, but I think at some point there'll be um kind of a reckoning. Now, the voice actor stuff, I don't know, man. Uh it's it's it's getting better and better. AI, unfortunately, is just learning at a such a rapid pace.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00There's gotta be something I think. Yeah, there's gotta be something done, I think, from the union's perspective to continue to fight for you guys because that's about all you can do.
SPEAKER_03Uh that's what I think is Sean Aston is doing precisely that. Um I went to uh in February, I went to um a fan expo in Portland and saw all four hobbits, got a picture with them, got a uh a very commemorative Lord of the Rings edition, a Kinkstake edition that I produced, signed by all four of them. That's awesome. And uh and I and I talked to Sean uh very briefly just at a signature session and said, Um, I said, hey, I'm a I'm a SAGAFTRA registered voice talent, and thank you for all you're doing. And he goes, Great, hey, that's wonderful. You know, how's it going? And I said, AI. He said, I know, I know, we're working hard. You know, and I watch his videos, and they are. Um I think we're the first, we're one of the first chips to fall because it takes so much more processing to develop uh believable, convincing video material. Audio, though, was was that was uh that was streamlined you know long before they started working on on uh voice stuff. Um video stuff rather. But like I said, it's not Skynet yet, but yes, I think we have people fighting for us, but it's just that yes, there does need to be a reckoning. Yes, there needs to be legislation on this Wild West, unregulated um uh phenomenon that is growing exponentially. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_00I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I I I would uh there's a a couple industries for sure that I I'm happy that I didn't pursue um you know in the tech world, and that is coding. And uh you know, I'm sure there's a lot of other things that are that are gonna lose a battle. So uh and you know what? Shout out to um, you know, uh Rip Tom Kane. I know we're talking about voice, voice uh acting, and uh he was the uh voice of the power uh Powderpuff Girls doctor and dad, and he was like a voice actor and he did a ton of stuff. And I I uh a lot of characters that uh were part of that Cartoon Network series when I was a kid, so I wanted to make sure I made a a shout out to Tom Kane. Um that's awesome. Yeah, uh listen, man, we're we're hitting that hour mark, but I want you to um, you know, kind of hit us with your with your plug. Tell us what you got going on. Uh, do you have coming anything coming up in the near future we can make sure we're paying attention to? Really exciting about the stuff for your for your book, man. I I really uh really hope that that comes to fruition for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you. Me too. Well, that one is going the producer route. I've got uh four other books adapted for the screen, and they're going the film festival route. Nice. Um, a few of them have been, you know, they've they've won entrance into film festivals, they've garnered awards, which is wonderful. So that's good. I'm working on book 51, which is another uh horror paranormal novel. It's called The Darkness Within, and I'm going for a modern day take on Jekyll and Hyde. Um mystery of all things. That's cool. Um so that's what I'm working on. But people can go to authorarinrion.com and find out about um uh everything. It's got all the social links, it's got all the uh uh the links to the sub sites for the distance, the different series. And then they can also go to authorarinryong.com, which is a Facebook group where they can join. There's no scammers or spammers allowed. If you're an author, you're gonna find tips. There's discount codes, giveaways, upcoming real appearances and releases, news. Um, and that's authorarinrian group.com. So there you go.
SPEAKER_00Awesome, man. Yeah, yeah. You had a great website. I was on there and uh doing doing my research on what I could. So uh, and hey, look, buy this guy's book, man. You could get the entire dissonance series on Audible. Uh, you know, I'm a member of Audible, and uh, you know, so I I used a credit, but it was only like 15 bucks, man. You can get 51 hours of content for 15 bucks. What do you do with your life, man? You know, you I know, I know. I'm gonna be hearing your voice for the next like two months as I'm driving. So uh that's that's pretty cool. Um, anyway, this is the Drink a Clock Podcast. You can listen to this podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts. Uh, and on top of that, you can find me on social media drink o'clock pod as well. So um look, Eric, it was it was a pleasure having you on, man. Thank you so much. You're a busy guy. And uh, let's do this again after uh dissonance gets on the big screen, man.
SPEAKER_03Will do. Thanks so much for having me, Rob. Awesome, man.
SPEAKER_00Have a great night.
SPEAKER_03Peaceo.
