Investing Where Impact Meets Financial Opportunity

This episode features a conversation originally recorded for the Turbo Impact podcast. Paul Hailey, Head of Impact & ESG at responsAbility Investments AG, joins host Kenny Chen to explore how impact investing operates in fast-growing emerging markets. Drawing on responsAbility’s two decades as a specialist impact investor, Paul explains how the firm builds its strategies around essential needs in these economies and why investor interest in this segment continues to grow.

Key Topics Covered

• Why addressing essential needs in emerging markets creates both meaningful impact and strong financial opportunity
• Embedding intentionality and contribution into responsAbility’s impact thesis and scoring
• Driving impact value creation through action plans, climate advisory, and active engagement
• How blended finance unlocks new markets and catalyzes private capital
• What separates authentic impact investors from impact-washing claims

Guest: Paul Hailey, Head of Impact & ESG, responsAbility

Hosted by: Kenny Chen, Host & Founding Partner, Turbo Net Zero, www.turbo-impact.com 

Follow responsAbility on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/responsability-investments

https://www.responsability.com/

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to Voices of Impact Investing, the responsAbility Investments podcast. Today we share a special episode recorded by the Turbo Impact Podcast. Paul Haley, Head of Impact and ESG at responsAbility Investments joins host Ken Chen for a conversation drawing on responsAbility's two decades as a specialist impact investor. They discuss how impact investing drives change in fast growing emerging markets and explore how intentionality, contribution and blended finance shape measurable results for companies and communities on the ground. We thank the Turbo Impact Podcast for allowing us to share this full episode. Welcome to Turbo Impact, where we navigate sustainability in private capital. I am your host, Ken Chen. Each episode, we sit down with investors, allocators, and corporate leaders shaping the next era of sustainability. We explore how capital is driving the global transition and how today's decision are shaping the future of impact. Thank you for joining us. This podcast is brought to you by Turbo Net Zero, a cool play sustainability advisory firm driving impact across the private markets. In this episode, I'm joined by Paul Haley, Head of Impact and ESG at responsAbility Investments, one of the world's leading impact investment firms, managing around 5.5 billion USD across emerging markets through three core themes, financial inclusion, climate finance and sustainable food. Paul overseas how responsAbility integrates the impact into every stage of the investment process, ensuring that capital not only does no harm, but actively contributes to positive change. We discussed responsAbility's approach to building meaningful impact while meeting essential needs also represents a strong financial opportunity. And Paul's reflections on how the industry can stay true to its purpose as in time investing continues to grow. Here's my conversation with Paul Haley. Hi Paul. Welcome to the Turbo Impact Podcast. Hi Kenny, it's a pleasure to be here. Can you start by telling us about your role and responsibility and what first drew you into impact investing? Sure. Well, I am the, I am the Head of Impact and ESG at responsAbility, which is a which is a specialist impact investor asset manager. We have around 5.5 billion USD in assets under management and the vast majority of our activities are focused on emerging economies. And my role within responsAbility is to act is to run the impact on ESG team. So we are here to do the analysis of our investments around to make sure that they are sustainable. Basically they do no harm and they actually make a positive contribution. And in addition to that, of course, we are there to not only look at the investments, but also to also communicate to investors to deal with some of the regulatory elements around that and to effectively also act as a, an in house knowledge center around the topic. In terms of my journey towards this, I had previously worked in finance for a few years. I took a bit of time out to do an MBA and during the course of my MB AI started, there was a social business certificate at the place where I was doing that and that's pushed me towards taking an interest in impact investing. So now I have been working in impact investing as a space for around 1617 years and within responsAbility for 15 years. I guess this question is in everyone's mind, what's the difference between ESG and impact investing? That's a, that's a very good, that's a very good question. So I think if there's one thing I've noticed, and I don't think this is the only corner of finance where you tend to have this kind of situation, is that if you walk into five different, you know, 5 different ESG impact investing houses and say to them, how do you define ESG? You'll probably get 7 different answers. So the way that we define it and I think that most people in the market would define it would be that look, ESG is often see ESG investing can be a broader umbrella, but it can predominantly be the idea of look, try and just eliminate the worst activities and then invest in the rest, right. And you know, or at least invest in a best in class type of approach. Impact investing is more the idea of trying to find investments than than not only do no harm, but also genuinely actively make it a sustainable contribution and have a positive effect on the, you know, the big crises that we're facing today from an environmental or social perspective. So to find business models that are really geared towards creating a positive impact in the world. Speaking of positive impacts, So what is responsAbility's overall impact thesis and how does it come to life across your different investment strategies? Sure. Well, look, responsAbility was originally created back in 2003 following a cycling trip which was taken by one of our founders. So they, he was going to on a cycling trip through sub-saharan to go with his wife. And one of the things that occurred to them from all the people they met and the conversations they had and everything else was look, there really is a need here. There's so many people here, so much brilliant entrepreneurial spirits, you know, so, so many possibilities here. What's needed here is not is is the kind of support that will allow people to start their own businesses, to start their own ventures, you know, to flourish in the same way that we have in Europe or where is not necessarily so available. So this obviously was in part spot by the fact that he also had an interest in microfinance as an idea. And so when he came back, he created responsAbility where the idea was really to allow investors in Europe to invest in microfinance as a theme. And then for, you know, and then ultimately for that to support local financial institutions in developing markets to reach low income households and small businesses and allow them to grow basically, and to provide them with loans and, and other financial services, which is even today a problem. You still have 1. 4 billion adults in the world who don't have access, who don't have a bank account, for example. So that was the start of responsAbility. That was the genesis. And since then, the, the, the, really the thesis has been that responsAbility is looking to address the, the twin crises of our moment, which is the, the environmental crisis. So climate change and also collapse in biodiversity. And also the fact that at the same time, the, the social crisis that we face in terms of inequality, in terms of lack of access to essential services. And we do this by, as I said, predominantly tackling looking at emerging markets, emerging economies, because for us, that's where you can achieve an awful lot of the biggest impact, where you can have the greatest contribution because there are relatively few other investors that are going into the space and where you really need to have a deep and profound knowledge of the topic in order to go in there. So and where also it should be said, as I mentioned before, I pick the 1. 4 billion there. That is 99% of that is in an emerging economy. So there are certain topics where you have to go into emerging economies to make a difference and where you have to have a certain know how and expertise to go in there. So that's really the thesis behind responsAbility. The genesis was on providing access to an essential service, which is access to finance. And that thesis has grown to include look looking at many different areas. We are involved. We are still involved in the financial improvement space, but we also work within sustainable agriculture where again, you have a lot of smallholder farmers and other agricultural organizations that has lack of access to investments, that have lack of access to critical inputs, that have lack of access to a lot of other elements. And where there's a need also to improve them in terms of their sustainable activities. And climate finance. Where really again, there's, you know, a lot of really exciting and new and interesting business models that are out there in emerging economies and where an investor with can walk in, can provide capital and at the same time can also help those organizations to improve and to grow. So that's the thesis of responsAbility effectively is to primarily target emerging markets, but also more broadly speaking to try and help organizations to grow and to become the solution to these those twin prices that I mentioned. Obviously, you're addressing and meeting critical needs in emerging economies. It's a very impactful focus, but why it's also a consider a financial opportunity for you. Look, if you're these needs that I mentioned before, these essential services, if you have a set of economies that are growing very rapidly, yeah, these are economies that are great far more quickly than the developed world. If you have the economies where they're also growing from a demographic perspective much more rapidly, and if you have essential needs that are not being met, then that obviously shows an awful lot of potential, awful lot of opportunities. So fundamentally, if you can find business models that are geared towards meeting these needs, that are geared towards that have at their core the idea of trying to create a positive impact, then those are clearly also going to be business models that could experience a very significant growth. Whether that be a microfinance institution that sets up in a market and caters to a clear until that they're up until that point to having to rely on informal money launders with money lenders with unscrupulous practices and they are bringing look decent transparent lending processes. Or whether you have an organization that is providing off grid solar home solutions to communities that until that point just didn't have access to electricity. The point is these are fundamental human needs that are being met. So if you're providing all of those things, clearly you're going to experience very significant growth. What investors need to see though is that we are doing this in a way that ensures that yes, these are business models that are, you know, meeting essential needs in a fair and transparent manner and that they are not. And that's ultimately their practices towards the customers and the staff and the communities of those organizations are completely correct and above board. So that's what we do as a lender, as a, as a, as an investor. We are there to look at organizations, check that they're acting correctly, but also identify organizations that are meeting these essential needs. And then once you're able to do all of those things, clearly the, the scope for growth from both the financial and an impact perspective is very significant. I mean, just to I can give you there's, there's so many numbers out there, but I could give you a couple. One would be if you look at the next, you know, between 2025 and 2027, according to the IEA, 85% of the increase in electricity demand will come from from emerging economies globally. I mentioned before the number of the worlds on banks that are in emerging markets. You also have enabling factors, things like, again, if you just take India alone as a country now, rural India a few years ago had virtually no Internet connectivity. By 20-30, you're going to have 650 million people in rural India who will have access to the Internet and who will have smart and you know, and will have smartphones or access to smartphones. Now this, I mean, to put that in context, you have 450 million people living in the European Union, right? So there's going to be, there are all these enabling factors, there are all these opportunities out there that are really very significant. And if you're an impact investor in emerging economies, there's and you know those economies you have a good strong local presence, then that's clearly a huge opportunity. Very vivid example and the statistics. So in terms of your investment process, how do you integrate intentionality and their contribution in your investments? Well, see now those, those are good questions. And we get there's a lot from investors. The intentionality is something where I mentioned before the idea of making sure that you have business models that have impact at their core that you're investing in, right. So every one of our products is going to have an impact thesis. It's going to, I mean, that sounds a little grand, but it's basically intentionality is ultimately the idea. And it's not so revolutionary of saying, good look, when you start doing impact investing, have a clear idea of what you want to do and make sure that you do it, which doesn't sound too hard, but is I think quite a, quite a critical component here. So you have an impact thesis which says this is what we want to do. These are the impact strategies that the fund has and be it OK, you know, creating financial inclusion, be it be it's, you know, helping smallholder farmers, be it's promoting, you know, being reduced, can, you know, carbon emissions, etcetera. And then have a mechanism to transform that thesis, you know, to, to make sure that that thesis is reflected in your portfolio strategy. So for example, have an impact scoring that looks at the the underlying companies that you're investing in and which says, look, are these generally in line with what we're trying to do or have a set of KPIs or have some other means of analysis that allows you to make sure that this is the case. And then make sure that this is lived throughout your investment process. Make sure that you're then collecting metrics afterwards that allows you to check that this is still ongoing. Make sure that this is also reflected also in the, you know, in your investment committees as well and in your decision making process and in everything around your investment process basically. Now one element of that intentionality has to be contribution. You have to be able to say, well look, we're coming in, we're looking at a company, they're a great business model, but what are we bringing to the table, right. So again from our perspective, I can I gave you the example of an impact scoring. Several of our business, several of our products had impact scoring in place that we developed ourselves and the question of contribution is integrated within those. So we will have an impact scoring that will look at the context in which we're investing, what is the need. It will look at who is meant to be the ultimate end beneficiary of these activities. It will look at, you know, how big is the company's impact. And it will also look at look what are we bringing with an investment ultimately if it's a great company, but our investment is, you know, really achieving, you know, and making zero difference to them as a company. It begs the question, well, is there really much point in US investing, you know, are we going to get much from this from an impact perspective? Arguably, you know is this even necessarily a great financial opportunity? So we will incorporate that within our impact scoring and we will look at questions like what are we bringing from a financial perspective? Are we bringing anything beyond a financial perspective as well in terms of are we bringing, you know, are we going, do we have plans to engage with this organization to help them get better? So that's really how we try and integrate it throughout our, you know, within our process. Diving deeper into your holding period on the contribution side, how do you engage with your portfolio companies and add value from an impact perspective? Well, there's a, there's a few different routes that that you can take. I mean, the first thing is that we're only doing private investments. So that already allows us to, you know, it means that a, there is a direct flow of money from our investors to us to these companies. And you know, we sometimes it sounds a little bit perhaps pretentious or polite take take you and take your pick in terms of what we sometimes call a golden thread in terms of the money comes from our investors. In the case of microfinance, for example, from our investors into the funds to the microfinance institution and then gets lent out to someone who is, you know, let's say running a stall somewhere in Mumbai or who is running a small company somewhere in Nairobi, right. So there is that already direct direct contribution, direct flow of money from one to the other, which I always think is quite a nice idea. But beyond that, beyond the financial contribution, there is our ability during the due diligence process to engage with the companies and say, you know, to, to to talk to management to say, look, these are ways that you can improve your impact. These are ways that you can improve around certain elements of your ESG standards. If we do an investment and we say that broadly speaking, this company is good, but they really should put this in place. They should improve that. They should, you know, they haven't for example, I've got a formal anti harassment policy on an HR level or there are certain elements around their workplace health and safety we don't like. We have the capacity to introduce what's called an ESAP or an environmental and social action plan. And this is something, and again, this is a benefit of doing private investments. This is something that we can include within the the loan agreement where we can say OK, within six months or 12 months about disbursements. You must put in place this, this and this and this is something that is legally binding for the organization and this is something that my team will directly take care of. So they will directly engage with the investee, they will try and identify the needs and they will help them to put that in place. So this is something way beyond the finances. This is value that we can bring to these organizations, some of which have never had foreign investors before. So for them these maybe this may be the first time that someone said to them, you know, you should really put this in place. For example, we also have a climate advisory team that's able to engage with some of our some of our climate finance investments to help specifically on the topic of emission reductions and helping to introduce green products. And then we have certain of our funds that will have a small pool of donor money next to it or technical assistance which will allow for them to pay for consultants who can come in and specifically put things in place. And then you also have again for some of our other products, we will have a specific focus on gender as a topic. So there we will ask organizations to put in place a gender action plan which improves, which really targets the question of equality within employees and also helping organizations to produce products that specifically target women in in emerging economies. So that's the different channels that we have basically. And the responsAbility also uses blended finance model to mobilize private capital. So can you explain how blended finance works and why it is powerful? Yes. So blended finance is it's, it's something that's very interesting and very exciting for our for our industry in the sense that that at the at it's most basic level, it is talking about a mixture, hey blend of money from. Public as from public sources, IE government sources. So development finance institutions, be it multilateral ones like the IFC, the investment arm of the World Bank, or be it country specific ones, you know, bilateral ones like for example Proparco which is the French development agency or KFW, the German one or FMO which is the Dutch 1. So what it would be is a mixture of fund, you know, investment from that side plus private investors, be it institutional or you know, be it, you know, pension funds, be it high net worth, individuals, be it, you know, whatever else, family offices, whatever else. So it would be products that have investors from both of those sides. Right now, this might seem like, OK, well it's just investors like any other. But some of the structures you can build around this are quite interesting. One of the more classic examples is the idea that you have some of these development agencies or DF is coming in and providing funding on a slightly concessional basis. So accepting a slightly lower return relative to the risk in order to try and attract and catalyze private investors, which from the perspective of a DFIS is quite interesting, right? They're providing funding and in the process they're catalyzing. Sometimes, you know, it's not just five times the amount in private private investment. So then that allows us as an investor to go out to, you know, to start targeting business models which previously where previously might have been difficult to create a risk return profile using purely privates private investment that would have worked. So from speaking from the responsAbility, but it also at the same time means that some of those DF is will come in also with some technical assistance funding alongside of it as well, which is very interesting for us. So it allows again, it allows us to heighten and improve the engagement that we do with some of those companies. In the last few years. This has really enabled responsAbility to move into some very new and interesting areas and to really achieve a great deal of impact. So we've been able with the help of our friends and our investors at some of these DF is we've been able to move into, into products that provide, for example, lending towards local financial institutions so that they can provide green loans within their markets. You know, often they're the first financial institutions to do that within an emerging within those specific markets. It's allowed us to target off grids, solar energy providers, it's allowed us to provide investments in climate smart agricultural practices. So it's really open the field for us quite a lot. In a lot of respects, this particular structure impressive. What developments are you seeing among LP's in impact investing, especially when it comes to the preferences of retail versus institutional investors? It's a very good question. I think thematically there are some topics that are Evergreen. Regrettably, the climate crisis has not yet gone away and it is not going to go away for a few more years yet. So it is still an ongoing challenge to fight to try and address that. And there are other topics as well. Access to finance remains a topic. You also see things like biodiversity that has become increasingly top of mind for a lot of investors. So biodiversity and nature based solutions, I think up until a few years ago weren't quite as prominent. Now it is a topic that comes up very weakly. Gender equality is still a topic, albeit one that maybe isn't talked about quite as much as it was a couple of years ago, but still it's very much top of mind still for a lot of our investors. So these are all major topics from a thematic perspective. What I think is interesting is that if you look at the activity of different investors, what among retail investors, I think they do, we have found that they do tend to focus on specific topics sometimes. However, some of the bigger institutional investors, I mean, and this would I and I think the DF is as well, that's the same case. But among some of the other institution investors for them, they sometimes view impact as just a theme by itself, right? So they're not necessarily focusing on specific sectors. What they're saying is no, you know, we want to, we want products that will allow us to address impact from a variety of different angles, to look at a variety of different topics. I think up until this point, responsAbility, we've been much more single sector kind of focused, but we are increasingly seeing that there are a lot of institutional investors that are really taking more of that approach. And perhaps it's interesting to try and think about how we might address that demand. Basically you've written about the risk of impact washing. EOV was separate truly impact driven managers from those using impact as a marketing label. I think the the look if I was going to, if I was going to look at a because we do look at funds as well ourselves. We have a funded funds offering. So sometimes I'm on one side of the table, sometimes I'm on the other side of the table, which is always quite interesting. And of course, when I am looking at funds and we're interviewing them, what I try to think is, look, what are the questions that stretch me and that you know, that that I think are the good questions and where I think are really genuinely mean. I think the first thing is to say, look, you can really tell when you've got an impact product. That is where they sort of started off with we want to invest in this and then afterwards they'd retrofitted an impact rationale onto it. It becomes very obvious. You start to see a kind of a freaking at the seams, if you will. So first of all, what I think is important is to try and understand, look, what is your impact rationale and how is that present throughout your process? You know, OK, great, this is what you say. This is what you claim you're doing. How do you make sure that that is reflected in your earlier strategy? How do you make sure that this is reflected in the reporting that you do as well? So I would say that's the first question that really should be asked, isn't it? Is there a clear coherent line throughout their impact process? And the question you can do afterwards to check out that is to say is to ask the question, OK, what would you not do? Give me an example of when you have rejected a company and on what grounds, you know, because it didn't match your impact rationale. I think if those are two relatively simple questions, but if you're talking to a a funds manager and they're struggling to answer that, then I think for me that's possibly a sign that that's that's the case, that that's something that needs to be addressed. During a lot of work around aligning and converging on impact measurement standards. Do you think we're getting closer to a common language for measuring impact? Yes, look, I think there are, there is a certain degree of convergence. Now some of this has been forced by regulation and in Europe, notably with the rise of SFDRI also see, we also see that there are certain standards that are very that are being adopted by a lot of people within the space of impact investing. So that would be things like the impact, the five dimensions of the impact management project, which is now Impact Frontiers. That would be the operating principles for impact management, which were originally created by IFC, but they're now run by the Jinn Iris Plus, which is a set of commonly agreed metrics. And you have other things in the climate space as well, of course, PCAF and, and you know, GHD protocol and things like that. And then of course, on a more general macro level, you have things like the sustainable development goals. So there are, I think there's a greater degree of harmonization than there was say five years ago for example. Nonetheless, because there's a lot of different ways to achieve impact. You still have, I think we're still quite some way from the, the thing that we often hear from a lot of, from a lot of investors, which is like, can you just give me one number or one rating, you know, across the whole industry? I think we're still quite a long way from that point. And of course, as long as we are a bit of distance from that point, then you always run the risk of impact washing or greenwashing as a result. So investors still I think have to be willing ultimately to look at impact investors and say, no, hold on, really explain to me how you're applying these standards and what you're doing with them. So there still is a need for due diligence while that well until we get to that point, I think Europe has been leading the way in sustainability and impact regulation. How has responsAbility responded and what takeaways could you share? Well, it's been an interesting experience. I think if like me, you work within the impact on the SG management function of an organization, you've seen your function turn into a regulatory function, which is already quite an interesting experience. I think the, the from a regulatory perspective, the introduction of SFDR has prompted, has catalyzed a lot of thinking and a lot of focus on an even greater focus on sustainability. There are some European markets that are particularly sensitive to impact investing that are very, you know, that are very interested in it. Switzerland, Netherlands, UK, Germany, those are all markets where that's really picked up. And obviously the fact that there is a regulatory framework behind it has helped. Nonetheless, there are limits to the regulation. If you take SFDR and the EU taxonomy as an example, they are not really geared towards the realities of emerging economies. It's not something that's really set up for that. It's a regulation that has tended to go where the where the bulk of assets currently is, which is to say most ESG assets are in listed assets that are in the developed world. But then of course, it begs the question, well, should that be the case? Should we, when you bear in mind all the numbers that I quoted before about lack of access and growth and everything else in emerging markets, should we be looking to push more assets into emerging economies, into sustainable investment within those spaces? And I think that's something that probably we all need to think about a little bit more. There is a revision of SFDR that's due pretty soon. We'll wait and see whether the emerging economy angry is more incorporating. But there is an element sometimes for the likes of responsAbility and others that when we're trying to, you know, really apply and incorporate the requirements of SFDR, it's not something that's fully adapted to the realities of our markets. So hopefully this is something that will change over time though in the interim though, I think I still remain relatively optimistic of, you know, that of the power of regulation around this space and the fact that it can hopefully provide greater transparency to our investors. Because I think anyone who is truly doing impact investing and who is really committed to it and really to focusing like we are, it can only be a good thing if ultimately we are all pushed towards greater transparency. I'm a great believer in the power of daylight. Basically, I ask every guest this question. What do you think is the most effective way to turbo impact in your field? I think there's a lot of the things that I've mentioned before about transparency is is one thing that I think is very important. I think that's there is an awful lot of potential from technology as well. I know everyone in every podcast right now is talking about AI, but genuinely within our field as well, AI has an awful lot of potential in terms of improving transparency around impact achieve in the sense of providing, you know, And when you combine that with the fact that, as I mentioned before, in a lot of the economies where we're operating, there are huge swathes of the population that are coming online for the first time. Now they're coming online in their own languages, but that's not a barrier for AI, as we know. So if you combine those two things, the power of technology from our side, if you with the, you know, the fact that there are there is for the first time, there's connectivity. I think that's it's really exciting in terms of the potential for us to really understand that when we make these investments, when we support these business models, are they genuinely having an impact? So if we're able to combine that with the fact that then all that's left is the need to mobilize investments in that space. Right now there is, you know, right now if you look at the, the, the need for investment and the need for and you know, the need for what's out there at the moment, the estimate is that somewhere in the region of some in the region of $4 trillion per year is required in order to meet the SDGS. So in, in emerging markets, that is right. So if you factor the, if you factor in the fact that $1. 4 trillion of that is currently being provided, that leaves you with quite a big shortfall. And that leaves you with around $2. 6 trillion per year in investment. Now, that seems like a huge amount of money, but you put it in the context of all of the money that is being currently managed and invested in the one on a on a day-to-day basis, you'll literally talk about moving the needle by a couple of percent in terms of global assets. So if we can even get towards halfway towards that number, then we could do a huge amount to address the big development topics of our day. We can do a huge amount towards addressing climate change and we can do a huge amount to addressing to addressing poverty, towards addressing inequality. And we all know what the economic benefits of that will be. The economic impact of climate change is going to amount to, you know, 10s, hundreds of trillions of dollars over the next over the next, you know, 30-40 years. The economic, the missed economic potential from having still billions of people who don't have access to finance, who don't have access to education or health or electricity is huge. But the potential from bringing all of that in line from in the air, from investing in that space, from in the air, from doing more in the space is colossal. So it's it's in our hands basically is the point I'm trying to say the possibilities here are within our hands. If we can just move towards, you know, move in that direction and harness the benefits that, you know, that are possible with with technology are really colossal, in my opinion. Thanks to the rest of you guys. I'm that optimistic. Yeah, that's very that's very good. I want to thank you for being as a believer in daylight and a impact leader in the field. And I want to thank you for your time for joining Turbo Impact Podcast. And thank you very much for having me on. And thank you so much to all of your listeners. If they've made it this far, I hope this was interesting. As a leading impact asset manager, responsAbility specializes in private market investments across 3 core themes, Financial inclusion, climate finance, and sustainable food. Don't forget to subscribe to the Voices of Impact Investing podcast to stay updated on new episodes available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and follow us on LinkedIn at responsAbility Investments. You'll find the link in our show notes. 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