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The Messy Hairstylist
Whether you are a mess literally OR figuratively we are here to help you take imperfect action to find your success as a hairstylist. Each week we deep dive in to tough topics to address the struggles we face in our industry. We push the boundaries, break the stereotypes and go hard against the "norms" that make us feel inferior.
The Messy Hairstylist
Did Hair School Prepare You for Reality? Here’s What They Don’t Teach
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Kelsey and Abby unpack the reality of transitioning from beauty school to salon life, tackling essential topics that aren't covered in classrooms. They dive into emotional intelligence, finding the right job, managing finances, and building client loyalty.
• Importance of emotional intelligence for stylists
• Navigating the job landscape post-graduation
• Balancing speed and quality of service
• Financial literacy in hairdressing
• Building a loyal clientele from scratch
• The impact of salon culture on newly trained stylists
Follow Abby on Instagram and TikTok at @theabbywarther
Follow Kelsey on Instagram at @kelseymorrishair
Welcome to the Messy Hairstylist Podcast.
Speaker 2:I'm Kelsey Morris and I'm Abbey Warther. Whether you are a mess, literally or figuratively, we are here to help you take imperfect action to find your success as a hairstylist.
Speaker 1:So Abbey is just coming off of a trip that I'm so jealous of. You were in Hawaii, I was For a long time, yeah, like 11, 12, 1112 days.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so she, she's. We're both kind of not quite in like the most work mode today, so we were just laughing. I had a migraine yesterday, so I'm a little loopy and I'm like this is gonna be the most off the cuff podcast. So we're, we're here, we're ready, we're showing up. Yes, I'm excited, me too.
Speaker 2:I'm refreshed and everything from having almost yeah, two weeks off from all work. And I've been back in the salon this week and I said to Kelsey I'm like I don't even know what are we talking about today, because I've been like out of the loop, which is good, it's good.
Speaker 1:Usually I don't do that. It's good to like detach for a little bit and like did you even take your computer?
Speaker 2:No, See, love that. And because we did a um, we were in like a Waikiki for three days but then we did a cruise and so like I didn't really have good cell service, so I couldn't even get my TikTok scrolling in like I'm used to.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, how did you live? Well, I was in Hawaii Speaking of TikTok, scrolling real fast. How about when TikTok went down for a minute? I know we didn't talk about that at all. Yeah, no, I mean, I watched some people go through some serious hard times. Like my poor little assistant in the salon was like grieving. I was like we can get through this.
Speaker 2:I promise we are going to get through this. Here's a so funny side story on that my nail tech. She is so mad at herself because she got a new phone and if you have a new iPhone now I think you can, but like, for up until just recently you still couldn't even download tiktok in the app store, so she got a new phone. She's so mad because she had to watch instagram reels.
Speaker 2:She's like 19 years old, so that was just like oh my gosh cringy to her that she had to watch instagram reels instead of that's what I was telling.
Speaker 1:I was telling my, my assistant. I was like why don't you just watch reels on instagram? She's like ew, no, not the same. And I was like okay and it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like comes to you like two weeks after it's on TikTok, so it's so old news, it's like old lady TikTok, but okay, love it.
Speaker 1:I don't, even I don't get on TikTok, I only get on Instagram, so I'm definitely the old lady of the group, unless Abby will send me things occasionally and then my friend Mashaela will send me occasional things on Tik TOK. But it's how I stay young at heart, tik TOK. If you got on my Tik TOK right now, all you would see is zit popping videos.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, I've been on that Tik TOK for a bit. I have, I have podiatrists. I don't know how I got it. I know Disgusting, know how I got it. I know disgusting, that is not my jam, that is not the same as it, no, so that's a quick swipe, but they try. They try to sneak those in. All right, this has nothing to do with their topic today.
Speaker 1:Okay, but we do have a topic. We do have a topic.
Speaker 2:Okay, we haven't talked in three weeks. Yeah, it feels like we're catching up right now.
Speaker 1:We're catching up live, so that's it Okay so the topic today is from beauty school to behind the chair and what they don't teach you while you're in school. So I love this topic. I have so much to say on it. We have done previous episodes about. You know beauty school and how to get into the workforce, but I don't think we've ever really dove deep into that aspect of it, Like what you don't learn in hair school and what to expect when coming out. So I'm excited to talk about this.
Speaker 2:Yes, I know, because the list could be so long. This could be a six hour episode. You know, because there's so much we don't learn and we're not even going to go down the rabbit hole of they only teach you this and that to get you ready for state board. We know that. So let's talk about what they don't teach you, that I don't necessarily think know if they should, because they schools are struggling right now just to get people through. Yeah, what are some things that you should really be aware of that are going to help you kickstart that first year of your career, don't you think?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I will say we are lucky in our area we have a few really good salon schools that are more trendy, I guess, and they do get a lot of clients in there and they can actually practice and they're teaching them things, I guess, and they do get a lot of clients in there and people they can actually practice and they're teaching them things that I never yes, I never learned in hair school. So I think obviously, the first thing that you don't learn in hair school is how to find your first job, whether to go commission booth, rent or into a suite. So I think that's like the first step, like we all know. Like you said, the technical skills you're not going to learn, but if you're not prepared coming out of school like well, what's next, how do you know?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I think, like I know, it's going to be so different almost 20 years since I was doing that, but looking at for almost 20 years since I was doing that, but looking at Sadie, who works with me now, who's been out of school coming up on a year, I know from her experience she was kind of briefly told all of the options but not really help guide you in where you should go.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, like if you were to talk to somebody in school, like what would you say, what would be your, what would you want them to know about that?
Speaker 1:So that's okay. That's where I want to go with this. First, I think when you are in hair school, it is it is told to you quite frequently that your best move is going to be to go into a commission salon. And now I don't necessarily disagree with this. That's I don't necessarily disagree with this. That's not me saying I disagree with this.
Speaker 1:I think for a majority of new hairstylists it is beneficial for them to go into a commission salon or into an apprenticeship. I do think that's beneficial. I think there are a few people who are in school who are maybe a little bit higher highly higher motivated was what I'm looking for who are maybe a little bit higher, highly higher motivated. What sort of looking for? They've got a little bit more motivation, they're seriously ready to come out hot and I think there's a gap there for those type of people where it's like, well, my only option is to go into this commissioned salon and then be under a contract and get stuck doing that. So if I were going into a hair school and I was talking to people about that, I would lay out all the different options and then I would say of course, commission is going to be great, you are going to learn a lot. You have job security, you know you're going to make money.
Speaker 1:But for those of you who feel as though they could go to an independent situation number one, I don't think I would tell anyone to jump right into a suite. I think that's a lot of pressure right out the gate with no one around you to support you. But there are opportunities in a salon where they rent chairs, but there are some seasoned stylists around you, right? Our salons, for example? Exactly, yes, yeah, our types of salons, our types of salons, our types of salons.
Speaker 1:So and for. And one thing I would tell them to look for is you don't want to go into a salon like ours where there are five or six girls that are just coming out of school. Why? Because you're all going to be competing for the same clients and that creates drama and makes people scared. They're not making the money they need to make, so you've got to be very selective in that. So if you are going to look into a booth rental situation in a salon with seasoned stylists, make sure it's that A salon with seasoned stylists who are willing to invest their energy into helping you grow, because there are places out there like that, and it would just take your time to find them and tour them.
Speaker 2:Well and yeah, okay. So then, if you were to find a space like that, how would they find out that that is a space that's like that? Because, yes, you can go into a rental salon, but not everybody's willing to help and teach you and take you under their wing. Would you suggest a shadow day?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, that's exactly what I was going to say. It was a shadow day. So there are a couple of salons by me and I know for for a fact that one of them has taken on like seven girls right out of school and you can figure that out just by looking at their Instagram, their website. You could see that there's a ton of young girls their rental or commission their rental.
Speaker 1:And my problem with this is yeah, it would be exciting to go work with a bunch of your friends from hair school. That sounds exciting. That's not going to make you any money because none of you have clients and you're all going to be competing for the same clients. So when you find this salon that looks like hey, these look like more seasoned girls, like they seem to be pretty busy, I'm going to reach out to them and ask if I can come in and first have a phone conversation. That's the most important thing. You can tell right off the cuff whether or not you and the owner are going to get along, you'll know right away.
Speaker 1:But then go into shadow the salon and just really like try to get to know the girls. The other thing I suggest if you are thinking about this route is, while you're still in school, reach out and ask them if they have any apprentice opportunities where maybe, when you get out of school for a couple hours a week, you could go into the salon and help them shampoo, wash towels, bowls, clean up. But you're getting yourself immersed into their culture and understanding what their salon is like.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love that. So I do think that commission is a great option, because everybody's different, so you have commission going into one of those really good rental salons where other seasoned stylists are willing to take you under their wing. And then you do also have the corporate side as well, and I think that that is good for people. You started out corporate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I started out at Ulta.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, so I think it's good. You just needed to start working and start making money, and I think those are good too. Ulta, I feel like, is a different animal in a good way, but there's some that I always warn hairstylists about that once you're in, it's hard to get out.
Speaker 1:That's what I was going to say, what I loved about Alta, and I was very careful and methodical. I checked their contract, I checked everything about it and I was like, if I want to leave this place, how hard is it going to be to leave? Yeah, if I'm going to have this whole, you can't work within so many miles. And then, if you do, you can't have your clients, blah, blah blah, I'm going to get sued.
Speaker 2:I would have been a hard no on that, but they don't do that. But also what I see from other corporate types of salons where it is like the best cuts the famous hair, like those types. I've seen a lot of hairstylists that think about coming into my salon when I was commissioned or rental now and they are stuck, not so much from a contract but because of the fast cash Right they're like pigeonholed, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So that's the only thing. I think it's really good to get you going and you will learn some things. But people do get stuck because of it's almost like a fast food type service where you're making your hourly rate, you're getting your tips and you're making a lot for getting out of school right away. So it's hard to then make that jump to either rental or commission and you might make less in the very beginning.
Speaker 1:And so that actually leads me to another point of something they don't teach you, and it's speed versus quality. It's like such a balancing, it's speed versus quality. It's like such a balancing act versus speed versus quality. So and I see both sides of this right when you're in hair school and you're learning, you are taught. I mean, think about how long it takes you to do a full highlight. Yes, yes, hours, forever, yes, hours. I mean I remember one time going into a hair school to get my hair highlighted and I have a ton of hair. I think it was there for eight hours. Okay, this is, this is a lot, but then when you, if you come out and you go to a place like you're talking about, then it's the fast cash. So I think it's one of those things that's not taught to you how to balance the two and how to really focus on the quality of your work while getting faster, but not too fast.
Speaker 2:Right, so true, yeah, that is not something that that is touched on in hair school is managing your time and your quality.
Speaker 2:Right when to take your time and when to hustle like yeah because I and I get it because schools struggle in just teaching people the basics and stuff but that is something, when you get out of hair school, that you really need to be mindful of, no matter what situation you're going into.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like I've been hearing more and more online and even I had a client in my chair recently a new one that was like wait, you just booked me for two and a half hours. It was like a foil highlight and I'm like, yeah, that's it for what you want done, that's the time that I need. And she's like well, I'm usually in the salon for six hours and I've actually seen some like TikToks of. I saw one where this client was like I just left the salon, she was crying, I was only there for two hours and I knew something was wrong, because the girl I usually go to takes eight hours and it's like that's too long, that's way too long. And so there's a lot of things that happen that make hairstylists not speed up a lot of fear.
Speaker 2:Lack of training speed up a lot of fear lack of training, but also, I hear a lot because we teach techniques of working faster, right, whether it be with foiling or balayage, which we cover in the Blonde Cattles Tour, which we'll have more information about that for this year coming up, and so a lot of stylists are afraid that if they work too fast it's going to lower their value. Exactly, right.
Speaker 1:And that's not the case. That's not the case, it's all. It's such it's. I love the way a balancing act, that. That. That is how I just think it's just such a balance and finding your sweet spot, and that is a hard thing to teach, though, so it's not the hair school's fault that they can't teach it. It's a hard thing to teach, it's like and it and it gets better with experience.
Speaker 2:But I think when you get out of school, you need to be aware of that and I think that the best thing, what I have found that works the best with trying to teach hairstylists that speed and quality is, um, just start tracking your timing. Not putting time constraints on yourself, but just I used to have people write down like okay, what time did you start like consultation start, cause that's the real appointment time. What times you get done foiling, right, yeah, that's great. And just start tracking so you can start to see. It's like when you're like trying to like eat healthier, and if you maybe start like tracking your macros or something that awareness helps a lot, and you're like, oh, wow, that partial highlight took me an hour and 45 minutes to apply. Maybe that's a problem. Where can I start to improve on?
Speaker 1:that and then saving 10 minutes off. Yeah, because you could be using those 10 minutes talking.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and things you don't even recognize, so that's a great tip.
Speaker 1:I absolutely love that. Go you Okay. The next one is pricing and money management.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the number one thing that popped to my head when this topic came up. Can you?
Speaker 1:even okay. I wish more than anything that hair schools would put a business part. I actually wish they would put this in like every school, in high school, like everywhere. You know what I'm saying? Like how many of us are set out into the real world and we're like, okay, now we're going to manage this, our money and our business, and what to do, Just aside from pricing pricing yourself as a whole other animal but then you trying to like figure out how to budget what you have yes, that's hard.
Speaker 2:I will say that our, where Sadie went to school is our local vocational school and in small town, and so she did it her junior and senior year. They actually had to do like a mock opening a salon. Oh, I love everything about that I know I was so impressed with that, with like the, with putting together a whole business plan and a social media marketing strategy, and so she would reference some of that Like, oh yeah, we did, and I'm like that is amazing.
Speaker 2:And I know the educators at this school and they are amazing. But that is not what typically happens. I know a lot of times that when stylists and you probably have this too when they come to rent from me and they're newly independent, they have no idea. They're like, oh my God, I have to start a business and get an LLC. Actually, they didn't even know they have to do that stuff. They're not even aware that they have to make themselves a business, that they have to make themselves a business.
Speaker 1:Well, and I also think there's a lot of fear. There is a ton of fear for people who are thinking about being independent. So, of course, if you are in hair school and you've even considered that, that's gonna be terrifying, right? Or if you're in hair school and you're gonna do commission, okay, still, maybe money management is something you should also learn as well. Oh yes, so like pricing yourself, that's another one, right? We've talked about pricing, price changes, how to raise your prices, how to figure out how to price yourself. We've done a lot of episodes on that, and I think our biggest takeaway from that has been I would say my biggest takeaway is always market research and education figuring out people's prices around you, what they're at, where they're at in their career, how much education they've had, and then price yourself according to that and, being someone coming out of school, what are the base prices at most of these salons?
Speaker 2:And that's where you really need to live and you need to start getting butts in your chair, to start getting your experience and getting your exposure and market yourself. But if you do that research and get into the right salon, then whether it's a rental salon with seasoned stylists to take you under their wing or a commissioned salon, you can live within their. You know where are they priced, what's working there. You know Exactly. It should be one of the easiest things. If you're one of the lower priced stylists in a reputable salon, you should be able to build Right.
Speaker 2:I 100% agree If it's a good salon with good reputation and you're one of the lower prices and you can put on there. Been trained by Kelsey?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's trained by Abby.
Speaker 2:Like that's everything.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that's actually a really good way to market yourself. I haven't thought of that, but by four before but another way to set yourself apart. Like you know, I worked under and trained under this person. Yes, I think that's great. I, as we were talking, I was thinking did you ever take I know you've taken a few like business classes? Did you ever have like an intro to business class that you could find online? Because I think that would be really beneficial for a newer stylist who hasn't learned much of this, who has that fear coming into money management and running their business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe start researching some of those. I think that's interesting. There are some I just don't have them saved.
Speaker 2:There has to be. No, I've never taken anything of that or seen anything like that. Honestly, I see a lot of like online business stuff and marketing and things like that, but like, yeah, I honestly I think that the best way if, when you're starting your own business is, um, who do you know in your community that owns a business? That's a local, small, local business, those are the best people to connect with. Totally agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay, Our next one, cause we were actually been talking a lot. We were like how are we going to talk today? We just can't stop talking. Um, this one is really big and I love it. It's the emotional side of being a stylist. Oh dang. How could anyone even possibly?
Speaker 2:I know, but do we want to scare anyone away from the very beginning?
Speaker 1:No, because I actually don't think it's all scary, I know.
Speaker 2:You're right, have you seen those reels.
Speaker 1:I did one. I'll probably cry about it right now when I talk about it. But it's like when people say like, oh, you're just a hairstylist. And then they talk about all the things their clients have said in their chair. You know, like I have stage four cancer, my husband's cheating on me. But then there are like the beautiful moments of you know, I'm pregnant with my rainbow baby, or you know, like things like that I'm getting married to my high school sweetheart, like so there's a lot of emotions that go into what we do.
Speaker 1:That I think is often not seen right. They think we come the biggest running joke with my daughter. She is hilarious, she loves to come into the salon. She's 11 years old. She's like I wish I didn't have to go to school and I could just go to work like you, and like she's like you just like play with hair all day and have fun and color, and like talk to your friends and I'm like, yeah, I think that's what everybody thinks we do. There's like this other side that it is so emotional and good and bad.
Speaker 2:And that's a hard thing to explain to someone. Yeah, and I feel like as hairstylists, we get to dealing with that and learning how to navigate that once we've gone through the ringer with it, you know because you don't, you don't know. No, I think one of the things that schools do start to do, and if you start at the right salon in the beginning, is they really teach you how to be professional and have good consultations and how to communicate. So that's like the start of it. So I do think that's the start of it, but it needs to go that next step of then. How do you handle difficult conversations, taboo topics, emotional conversations, heavy topics, sad things, happy, all of the things? Um, yeah, there needs there does. I think we've talked about that before.
Speaker 2:There needs to be more training on the emotional side of that and I see people post about it a lot. Um, and you know, would people take classes about that?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I don't know either.
Speaker 2:That's so interesting, but that's where I think that's where it comes into being in the right salon, because when you do go through those things, don't you have those co-workers that you always go to and be like, oh my God, yes, listen to this. And sometimes that helps me like, oh my gosh, so-and-so. Just told me.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And. I'm struggling right now to get through Because it's hard to shake some of the things we hear.
Speaker 1:I have this client who I think I've talked about it before Her husband died very suddenly. They thought that he had cancer and they had gotten him to this trial program and all he had to do was make it to this trial program and he didn't make it. He died right before it. And every single time this woman comes in, every time I cry with her, I will sit and I will like sob with her and then I go back in the back room and my coworkers will then cry with me and it's like this, like camaraderie, like we, and then like we hug it all out and we like get over it, we move on with our day.
Speaker 1:You just have to have those people that are with you, like you know. But then and it helps, like it's like you said, it's like it's so important, the salon culture is so important, and also I do think it makes us human to have those moments with our clients. And it is hard and it is emotional, but that's what makes hairdressers special that we do have that ability to touch people's lives in ways that others might not expect. So yes, the emotional side can be a lot, but it can also be so rewarding. But it's really hard to teach, so just be aware. I think awareness is key.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and it's also. You know you're talking about sweets, getting right into sweets. That's why you can't get right into sweets. You have to get into sweets once you are, I think, seasoned, financially stable and just ready to do your own thing.
Speaker 1:But I could never I did, I did, but.
Speaker 2:I don't ever want to do it again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So the last one we're going to talk about on this, which I think is pretty set, cut and dry, we all, we've talked about this a hundred times but building a loyalty clientele, a loyal clientele from scratch and I know we've talked about this in so many ways, but I do think it's probably one of the most important things that is hard to teach in hair school and hard to understand in hair school. So I want to give a few tidbits in case someone hasn't listened to our previous episode of like the best way to build a loyal clientele from scratch. So my first one is always make a Facebook post and ask for models.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite.
Speaker 2:I know we always say we're never too experienced for models, right.
Speaker 1:You got to take your models.
Speaker 2:So this is what I say to new stylists when they're starting, Because I know that when they're first starting they're so and should be hyper focused on the work and the technique. That's their number one is like getting the haircut or the highlight or the color correct Right, so they're hyper focused on that, and so then sometimes it's hard to even think about the service itself. With consultation and guest experience, that stuff kind of then starts to come second. And then the third thing if they really are determined to get this loyal clientele is, um, every single client in your chair is an opportunity. So that was one of the things that I always focused on when I was building um many moons ago, and I teach every new stylist now.
Speaker 2:Like that client, it's not just about getting their hair right. You've been training and you are, you can do it. Um, it's not just about getting their hair right. You've been training and you can do it. It's not about just having a good consultation. You've been training and you can do it. Look at this client, as I'm going to rock this today. I'm going to do an amazing job, so my focus needs to be this is my one opportunity to have her fall in love with my work and want to come back into the salon and pre-book that next appointment, maybe grab a product or two on the way out and be so excited that they just found their new stylist and they cannot wait to tell everybody yes and to fall in love with you as a person.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I'm sorry, we have to sell. Sometimes we have to sell ourselves.
Speaker 2:For sure, and that's part of that guest experience. Like just your vibe and all of that, and so for me that helped me a lot, mindset wise, to be like, okay, this is a new client. Do you get that energy when you get?
Speaker 1:that new client in your chair You're like okay.
Speaker 2:I got to rock this, I got to kill it, I got to really be all in and do this. And if you really think like that, then I just think it helps a lot because you're going to focus on the pre-booking and the next appointment and also talking to them about what are we going to do next time. Maybe you're starting to set them up for the next appointment as well.
Speaker 1:Do you think that for a newer stylist there's a lot of fear about pre-booking because they're afraid of the answer right, they don't want to offer the pre-book in case they say no, or they don't know how to bring it up, or you know like there's a lot of weird fear around pre-booking.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you don't even know if the client that's really a huge voice in your head when you're new is, does she even like what I'm doing right now? Right, right. So who am I to ask for her to come back? Yes, and I think the easiest have to shut that out.
Speaker 1:You have to. Yes, you got to shut it out, and the easiest way to start to to do that is to like drop little breadcrumbs throughout the appointment. You're dropping little breadcrumbs about what their next appointment is going to be, what the maintenance is going to look like, what you would do next time, how you know they could take care of their hair like little breadcrumbs the whole time. So they're already thinking about it while you're doing their hair. So when it comes to that moment of like, do you want to book your next appointment? They've, they've already had, they've already heard about it three times. They already know and you're not saying so our next appointment we're going to do X, y and Z. No, I hate that. You drop little it's like.
Speaker 2:The only way I could say is like little tidbits in there, you know. Yeah, little breadcrumbs, so it's perfect, like yes, it's perfect and then. So then they're almost asking for it and you're going to have the self-doubt come in as you become more experienced, like I. Just you know whether I want everyone to be cocky like this. I just know that they're going to book another appointment with me.
Speaker 2:Like I'm sure you know, that too right, like know that too right, like you just know it because because you also know that how they have found you and the work that you've done to get them to find you. So when you're more experienced stylist, you can feel like that, but when you're not, you're having those voices in your head and you just have to shut it down because the worst thing you can do is just send them out the door without a plan and they might've liked it, but they, they might not come back because you didn't act like you wanted them in your chair. They need that too. They want to know. Does she want to take me on as a client?
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause you have to think. They're probably thinking did she even like me?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so offer it, and if they say, oh, that's okay, I'll just book online or I'll call you, that's what they'll say. They won't say no.
Speaker 1:Right, they're not going to shoot you down Like no, I hate my hair, I don't want to come back here and I actually don't like you. Yeah, they're going to 99% of the time. They're going to shut you down easy. So yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So just go for it.
