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The Messy Hairstylist
Whether you are a mess literally OR figuratively we are here to help you take imperfect action to find your success as a hairstylist. Each week we deep dive in to tough topics to address the struggles we face in our industry. We push the boundaries, break the stereotypes and go hard against the "norms" that make us feel inferior.
The Messy Hairstylist
The Education Evolution: Finding Classes in a Changing Industry
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Ever feel like quality hairstyling education has become impossible to find? You're not alone. After a brief podcast hiatus (our sincere apologies!), we're tackling the dramatically changed landscape of professional education while sharing our excitement about teaching at the Orlando Premiere Show.
The education ecosystem has transformed over the past five years. What once felt abundant and accessible now requires more effort to discover. Through our social media research, we found stylists primarily taking classes at local distributors, bringing educators to their salons, or attending hair shows. Yet alongside these findings came frustrating comments like "classes suck" or "they're too expensive" – reflecting a broader industry challenge.
We dive deep into the realities of modern education options, from distributor classes (often under $100) to salon-hosted sessions (many product companies offer these for free if you carry their line), to the renaissance of hair shows. While some lament that shows aren't what they used to be, we challenge stylists to look beyond nostalgia and recognize the incredible learning opportunities still available at both major events like Orlando and smaller regional shows. The key difference? Today's education requires more proactive pursuit.
Follow Abby on Instagram and TikTok at @theabbywarther
Follow Kelsey on Instagram at @kelseymorrishair
Catching Up After a Break
Speaker 1Welcome to the Messy Hairstylist Podcast .
Speaker 2I'm Kelsey Morris and I'm Abbey Warther . Whether you are a mess , literally or figuratively , we are here to help you take imperfect action to find your success as a hairstylist .
Speaker 1Abbey and I have been gearing up for a very busy May . We are so excited that we are going to be at the Orlando Hair Show . Yes , well , I guess it's technically May , right , it's May into June . May 30th , may 1st .
Speaker 2We fly out May 31st . The show starts well for us June 1st . Yes .
Speaker 1Right . So we've been busy and we were just going through . We're like , oh my gosh , it's been three weeks since we put an episode out .
Speaker 2Oh , not the longest we've gone , but like I just get a guilt about it , I don't know why but it's serious . Apologies , I know , because I I had a education event this weekend and some of the stylists that there they were like oh my gosh , like this . Oh , you know what they loved our last episode ? Yes , it was , it was , and I'm like , oh , and then I feel like I'm failing at life , but it's okay because we're lifing in other places and hopefully everybody loves and accept our apology .
Speaker 1Yeah , we're doing our best . You know , it's funny , though , the amount of messages do you get , messages that are like , are you guys still doing it ? And I'm like , yeah , we're just taking a little break .
Speaker 2I actually have clients who listen to it and come up in their life . Same , are you guys still doing the podcast ?
Speaker 1Yes , I had someone in my chair last night and she was like where's the next episode ? I'm like it's coming , I promise it's coming . So we're back . We've just been just getting ourselves together , so that's one of the things we wanted to talk about today . First , I think we should hype up
Blonde Catalyst at Orlando Premiere Show
Speaker 1the Blonde Catalyst .
Speaker 2I know .
Speaker 1I'm so excited about it , let's hype it up .
Speaker 2Yes , well , yeah , I'm excited because what we're doing is we're teaching our Blonde Catalyst class at the Orlando Premiere Show and we've had some planning sessions recently . And we're just so excited . It's so fun . Yeah , we're killing it .
Speaker 1So , as most of you know , we teach with Sunlight's Professional and we were asked to teach our blonde catalyst at the Orlando Hair Show . So this is really exciting . We've taught it a few times on the road and in my salon , but now we get to do it on a really big scale . So we have been working really hard to condense it into three hours . So we'll have like a one hour like demo and then two hours of just hands on .
Speaker 1So if you're going to be at the Orlando hair show or have any interest in coming to a class , please come to our class . It was going to be so cool . I'm so excited .
Speaker 2And it's for like a steal , like if you sign up like literally the day before . The day before it's like 175 or something like that for the hands on which , under a hands on under $200 , is like unheard of so absolutely excited about that .
Speaker 1And we're going to be teaching foiling and balayage , so it's like a twofer in the class and and not to .
Speaker 2We're not going to give anything away , but , um , we're teaching the three catalysts to having a more successful blogging service is that how you word that ?
Speaker 1I love that I know yeah so we're just excited . We wanted to formally put it out there that that is what we've been working on . That is what we're doing , and if any of you listeners happen to be at the Orlando hair show , please find us .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh . Yes , okay , that's what I'm like . Of course , I'm excited for our class together at a hair show , which feels like not so to us , but I'm so excited to go . I was at Orlando last year . You worked the Chicago .
Speaker 1Chicago .
Speaker 2Yes , right . So you and I are going to be together at this show , and so Sunday we're going to kind of be in classes all day . So we do have our that paid workshop , but then I'm teaching a free look and learn with balayage , you're teaching a free look and learn with foiling , so there's a lot of different ways to take classes with us . So basically we'll be doing that all day Sunday . All day Monday we're going to be working the booth .
Speaker 2Yes to the Sunlight's booth . Yes , I know that you had that in Chicago last year . I had it in Orlando last year where people can't be like , oh , this sounds weird . I listen to the podcast Not weird , makes our day Totally don't listen to the podcast not .
Speaker 1Weird makes our day totally . I had someone . My favorite was last year in Chicago when I was sitting at the bar and someone came from across the bar . They're like I have a weird question are you Kelsey Morris from the messy hair sales podcast ? I'm like yes , I am . She's like I recognized your voice from across the bar and I'm like I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing , but I am so excited to meet you and she and I still keep in contact , like she's coming to Orlando . She's like I want to meet Abby .
Speaker 2Yes , she's pumped , so yeah , so take , come , take class with us . That would be the most exciting thing ever . And if you can't come see us at the , at the booth on that Monday , so yeah , we'll be there June 1st and 2nd in Orlando . Yeah . And we get to go to a fancy the Naha awards and we're getting all dressed up like I'm so excited .
Speaker 1I can't wait . I'm excited to our mentor . Candy Shaw was nominated for educator of the year , so we get to go . How cool would it be if she won and we were all ? I think she is .
Speaker 2I actually think she is gonna win . She was nominated a couple years ago and somebody else did win and so she's nominated this year . I think I do . I . Just my gut says she's getting it this year . Oh my gosh , I'm going to pass out . I know and well-deserved . And she's also teaching two hands-on
Exploring Modern Hairstylist Education
Speaker 2workshops . She's doing the balayage hands-on workshop and the French cutting hands-on workshop . So , and I'm going to hope , I'm hoping that I'm helping with the French cutting workshop . So because it's I just love it , it's so fun .
Speaker 1Okay , so good .
Speaker 2So let's so talking about the hair show actually goes in with what we're talking about today . And about a week or two ago I took to TikTok and it kind of I acted like I was really asking a question , but I had ulterior motives because I'm sneaky like that and I just wanted to hear what hairstylists were thinking . So I took to TikTok and I asked the question hairstylist , where the heck are we taking classes at ? And so I presented the question is where are we taking classes at ? If I want to take a class as a hairstylist , where now , because education has changed dramatically in the last five years and obviously I know where to take classes at , I don't have problems finding classes because I want to make sure I'm in classes .
Speaker 2It's very important to me , all that kind of stuff . But I just had a feeling that hairstyles aren't taking classes like they used to , because it's hard . I think I don't know if I mentioned this in my tick tock , but I had said you know before , five years ago , are the companies that we worked with . They hosted and came to your salon all the time and taught hands-on classes or just look and learns . There were classes everywhere .
Speaker 2They were like smaller local events with different distributors or product lines , don't you think ?
Speaker 1Well , yeah , and I think that things have changed and they're not required anymore . True .
Speaker 2You're right , in the state of Ohio , in the state of Ohio .
Speaker 1I don't know where everybody is , but in Ohio they're not required to go towards our hours , so you don't have to take classes . So before you have to think all these brands were putting out classes because we needed to have them , and now I think they're still there . You just have to look for them . It's harder to find them , and now they're . I think they're still there .
Speaker 2You just have to look for them . It's harder to find them . Yeah , no , I agree that they're still there . I think it's harder to find and I didn't think about that . In Ohio we only have to have like safe , safety and sanitation hours every two years . It's a joke .
Speaker 1I think that's crazy . That's actually frustrating to me that you don't have to take classes because that is going to hurt our industry so much . There are people like us who want to continue our education , who wants to be the best at what we're doing and continuously grow and learn , and then there are other people who literally just want to get by . They don't really know exactly what they're doing and they're not staying up in the latest trends and it kind of gives everybody a bad name because they're the ones that everybody's going to post about , that people are going to make TikTok videos about , and for sure that's hurtful to our industry . So I'm that bums me out .
Speaker 2I know it bothers me too . I do know that those of us that are taking the classes , you know we'll get that much further along because , but it's , it's yes as a whole , if we were all very educated , that help everyone wins everyone wins .
Speaker 1So anyway .
Speaker 2So I took to TikTok and said where's everyone taking classes ? And it was really interesting the results that I got . I had about 74 , 75 comments of hairstylists telling me where they're taking classes and the majority I got was they are going to their local beauty supply store and they're taking the classes in there .
Speaker 2So it's like , okay , those are back again , cause those used to be , and you can get a cheap class under a hundred dollars for sure , right In there . And some of them are hands on . So there are people that are doing that because they don't want to spend an arm and a leg and they don't want to be traveling across the country to go take a class . And I get that we're busy , but we want accessible education . So there was a lot of answers like that . I also got a lot of . I just invite educators into my salon , which , yes , but not everybody has the means to do that . You might not have a salon to invite people into , or you do , but you don't have other stylists that want to take the class with you to warrant that , and then hair shows so I was actually .
Speaker 2I was happy .
Speaker 1I was happy to hear people saying hair shows , I know that people are talking about hair shows , right ?
Speaker 2Yes , they're like I go to hair shows , and I think one person in particular said I'm going to Orlando premiere , which is one of the better ones , and so Chicago is a really good one too . I mean , I like all the premiere shows , to be honest , but she's like I go to the Orlando shows and I just take a ton of classes .
Speaker 1I have lots of thoughts on all of these things . So the first thought , starting from the beginning , is like , okay , you go into your distributor . I'm so glad distributors are doing classes again that they're becoming more common . I love . I mean , I think some lights is hosted , classed in distributors . They have like a flyer and you can go see your flyer and I think they're really accessible to everyone
In-Salon Education Opportunities
Speaker 1. So I love that at least people are trying to do something . Yes , great . Um , when you talked about bringing someone into your salon , we just recently did that . So , if you haven't looked into it , a majority of your color lines , like we use Dobbin S , so Dobbin S . They brought in a person to teach us a product knowledge class , a color class , and we had her for three hours and honestly , I know a lot of salon owners are probably thinking like , well , I can't afford that . It was free to us .
Speaker 2Right , If you carry the line yes , yeah .
Speaker 1So don't be afraid to dig into that , reach out to your rep or even go into the distributor and be like hey , how do I get a class ?
Speaker 2Because but here's the thing and this is the experience that I've had with my salon is , you know , I use Kevin Murphy and we used to before COVID . We used to be able to say , hey , we want a class and we would schedule . Someone would come in . It would either be hands-on , look and learn whatever we wanted . But since then I can't do that anymore . Why , I don't know . I just don't think they have the resources that they used to , or they pulled back on so much stuff , so we have to wait for them to have what they call a cluster class , so they will plan the class and have it hosted at one of the area salons , and then all of us go to it .
Speaker 2So we have to just wait and hope . Yeah , well , that's a bummer , it is I mean , but stay on them .
Speaker 1So that's a change for us . Let's stay on them and keep inquiring about this class , because I think eventually they'll do it , and maybe they won't if not many people are interested , but I just there are , like Davines just did it for us last month . So I would say , don't be afraid to reach out and talk to them about it . And if you're in a suite , like you said , or you know , in an individual , like on your own , and you don't have the you know , meet a salon to bring someone into , you could still reach out to your rep or reach out to your distributor because , like we were able to have like other people come into our class , so I could be like , hey , if anybody else reaches out , send them over , like it's fine . So there's always salons hosting things like that , so keep looking into that .
Speaker 1But then to the hair show . Yes , I'm so glad hair shows are back in it Now . I will say for a long time after COVID , hair shows were so quiet and so sad . Remember when they were first coming back and it was just like .
Speaker 1I don't know , last year in Chicago it was like , oh my gosh , I think they're coming back . This is so exciting . Now I have some feelings about that too , because I think a lot of the smaller shows like Columbus , which we've always loved Columbus is it's almost getting smaller and smaller . Some of the bigger brands are pulling out , they're not necessarily going in and it's kind of hurting the shows as a whole because they're focusing on the big shows , which then almost becomes oversaturated and , look , there's nothing we can do about that . But I will say there is still a lot of value in the smaller shows .
Speaker 1So in Columbus for us remember when Sunlights was in Columbus last year and it was a smaller show or was the year before last it was a smaller show that weren't as many big brands , but that was great for us because we got to teach some of those really impactful classes that people wouldn't necessarily take , because they're going to take the Red King class , the Moroccan oil class , yes , and maybe learn something a little different . The Moroccan oil class , yes , and maybe learn something a little different . So I you know .
Speaker 2I still think hair shows have such great value . Well , and that's the thing , like with the hair shows , okay . So , yes , they're coming back , they're building back up the bigger ones . You're so right in that , like , the small ones are suffering from it from all the changes in the last five years , but there's still the big . I see just the big chatter online of , like hair shows suck and it's like let's , let's like calm down , like
Hair Shows: Value and Misconceptions
Speaker 2we have to also take what's available to us and make the best of it , right . So , like , okay , hair shows suck , do they ? Are they different than what they were now ? Because , look back , is that just nostalgia ? You're just thinking about the good time that you had and now you think it was just so much better . I don't think that they're different . I don't . I think it's the same .
Speaker 2Go to Orlando . You're still having a ton of education , all of the top brands , all the top educators , literally everybody's there . So it's . Instead of sitting back and be like there's no good classes anywhere , I can't take classes . There are . Yeah , are you proactive in getting educated , or do you want to be like a victim of the times ? And was that like too rough ? Am I being too hard ? No , I love it . I think you're doing great .
Speaker 1I'm happy .
Speaker 2I feel bad saying it , but that's what I feel like . I see is like oh , there's just no there . There were a lot of comments on that TikTok of mine of like classes suck . Like so much negativity . It's like , okay , classes are going to suck . If you think they suck , classes are good . And I had a few people say , um , like they're just way too expensive , and so I asked back you know , I said okay , what , what price are you looking for ? What's your price point ? And because they're like we don't want to pay $500 for a class , get it Right . And they don't want to pay $300 for look and learn Totally , get that . Though , too , I don't want to do that either . If I'm going to pay 300 bucks , I want some hands on , and so and the person's answer was two to $300 . It's like fair , that's fair .
Speaker 1For a hands-on class .
Speaker 2I think that's fair .
Speaker 1Well , I agree , and I you know there's a lot . Like you were saying earlier . A lot of the people were complaining at TikTok that it's just like big influencers holding these big classes and they're super overpriced . What you know , what I think about is how do you find , like the smaller classes that is hard to find , the smaller classes to like figure out where they are . So I think you just got to keep asking .
Speaker 2You have to . Google stay on it . Yeah , and you just have to like follow those people online . So , like you know , I teach and I've had two classes in the last couple of weeks . I'm a , I'm one of the small people right , Like I don't have a giant following , I don't have a huge name , but I am out there actively teaching classes and it's yeah , it's like I will promote myself , post my stuff and it's just a matter of somebody stumbles across me .
Speaker 2Right , you know , and so and so like okay , I'm doing that . There's probably so many other people like me that are a small educator that has amazing classes too , and I can only think that the smaller educators are the ones that like that's whatles , and make a difference and speak to them . We're not just packing a room full of 25 , 30 stylists for a $400 . Look and learn just because we're an influencer on a big tour .
Speaker 1Right , and that's the stuff we have to look .
Speaker 2we have to sift through and then buy .
Speaker 1It's hard , there's no so you know what we should do . We should commit to helping our community . Anytime you and I come across a good class yeah , that's affordable we should shout it out in here and just be like I heard this class , because if we play , we do play . So much value in education . Obviously we're both educators like we want other people to be have education as well , and we're not just saying take our education , take sunlight , sunlight's education .
Speaker 2No right , Get educated .
Speaker 1Get educated
Finding Quality, Affordable Classes
Speaker 1. Let's start shouting out . We're going to start shouting out classes to make it easier , and then , if anyone else hears of a good class , shout it out to our fan mail , because , you never know , one of us might be interested too . We could shout it out as well .
Speaker 2Here's what I'm going to say . Okay , there's already three that are on my radar , all right , all right . So , um , this one already happened and I did not go to it , but I want . A local salon owner reached out to me , said , hey , I'm bringing this person in that , um , chanel mariano yeah you know her , she like just like the strings and stuff .
Speaker 2So she just taught a class locally . I think she's great . Now she's does have a bigger following , but I don't feel like she does not operate as like an influencer . She's an educator . So there's her . Another one that that actually that same salon owner is hosting is Shannon DeMont .
Speaker 2So , she is an educator that teaches photography for hairstylists . Ooh , love that , yes , and so she's having her , I feel like , not until September , and this is in Ohio and she's going to . So Shannon DeMont she has a Facebook group that is photography for hairstylists , and so she's great , so she's really committed to . She's like I think she's a full-time educator . Now I don't feel like she's doing hair anymore . And then another one is . I can never remember his name . He's this Irish dude . I need to put his name out .
Speaker 1I can picture him . I know who you're talking about . I can picture him .
Speaker 2So he's from Ireland but he will travel to the US sometimes and so I just saw that he's teaching in Texas . Cool , his education , colorist , top notch , like because he's in Ireland and I told my husband like I want to go to Ireland to take one of his classes .
Speaker 1Awesome . Oh my gosh , I wonder what he's in Texas . We should go to Texas .
Speaker 2I know I feel like it's coming up soon , but yes , so already . So that's the thing . If you're somebody that doesn't have a couple people or a person on top of your head that you want to take a class from , just you need to do some more digging and start getting this , looking online and seeing what's out there , I agree , and it's hard to find , which brings us back to like the hair show thing .
Speaker 1Take what you can out of hair shows , make it what you can Like . I said , yes , the bigger ones are going to be oversaturated , but please don't knock on the smaller ones , because you know what . It's not all smoke and mirrors , right . We've got some great education in those too , and even if you pick up a class or two and you'll get your money's worth just from that . So I think I love that hair shows are coming back . I hate that people are starting to think of them negatively and I want everybody to remember that it's up to us to seek out education . It's not just always going to fall in your lap .
